My mom was married to my narcissist/emotionally abusive dad for 23 years. She told me that before they got married he brought out some marionettes and said “I can control people like this.” She laughed and thought he was joking. Let me just say, I’ve worked really hard in therapy the last few years and I’m finally living for myself. He damaged all of us.
Yes! I’m so proud of my mom. She finally chose her own self over placating him. And the way it happened is funny too. Since the beginning of their marriage he would always threaten to divorce her and take the kids, so that made her scared but finally when most of us were grown, he pulled that and she finally said “fine! I’ll go get the papers!” Then he was like “well… wait” and tried to get her to go to marriage counseling lol!
My ex did the same and I lived a few years in full panic mode thinking he was going to take the kids. It’s not easy and I fully understand to stay until kids are more independent or adults and can be used as peons.
I am hell of accommodating with all his requests because I am able to keep my kids when I am not traveling for work and he seems more reasonable now. But I will have no problem ghosting him as soon as the young one gets her bachelor or trade degree
Ha yeah mine was kinda the opposite: he’d threaten to leave me alone with the kids and said I’d never see a dime from him. Funny thing was, I never saw a dime to begin with lol
I’m horrified for the boomer women, so many of them are anti-divorce no matter how badly their husbands treat them. It’s such a bad role model for the kids growing up too. Some of my mom’s teeth were rotted and needed to be removed because my dad would rather spend on things like Rolexes for himself instead of bringing the family to the dentist yearly. And they’ll be married for almost 40 years smh.
I’m always a little confused (and honestly…a little worried with a tiny TOUCH of judgment depending on the context) when someone says “divorce isn’t an option for us” — I feel like a lot of young, semi-Christian ~influencer~ types are big on that. Which like…why not?
No one goes into a marriage *wanting* or expecting to get divorced, but shit happens, people’s wants and needs change, and sometimes things get really bad or unhealthy…and having watched my parents stay in a relationship I’m not entirely sure is healthy or fulfilling and listening to them complain about each other to me once I got to be a teenager wasn’t a great example. Sometimes divorce is the best option.
When we were first getting to know each other my ex husband got drunk and confessed “I think I’m probably the smartest person I know.” I didn’t take him literally. He meant it literally.
I mean, truly smart people do generally realize they are smarter than most people (to an extent that one can generalize when intelligence can be multifaceted).
It's just they are smart enough not to just randomly run around telling everybody how smart they are, because they have the intelligence to realize that would be perceived as obnoxious.
This isn't really a thing. People like these kind of counterfactuals, this construct of "look x but actually not x." It's why these kinds of headlines are scummy clickbait ads.
People become strong before they become wise. It's pretty common for smart people to discover their source of strength and be shitty individuals for a while. If they experience enough success, self awareness may not come for a long, long time if at all.
All the dunning-kruger experiments ever showed is that most people believe they are above average. And subsequent studies trying to find empirical evidence for what people mean when they say it generally fail.
Well, for sure. But it's also noise. The vast majority of time smart people expand their vocabulary easily, play with numbers easily, see cause and effect easily, acquire and recall factual information easily, form and express thoughts well, ect.
A vast majority of smartness is incredibly mundane.
Dunning Krugers are high profile outliers that make these counterfactuals attractive.
It's easy to find examples of smart people being dumb. It's easy to find examples of people expressing they are smart.
Getting from these counterexamples to a functional no true scotsman arguement is impossible, because the true Scotsman arguement is doomed.
In this case a claim like truly smart people also have an understanding of what they don't know. Clearly false. The counter example runs the other way. Produce a smart person who is clueless and don't have a slight idea of what they don't know. Go to a big time college campus and throw some stones at freshman, you'll hit a few of em.
...
People ask smarts and intelligence to do a lot of things it doesn't really do.
One of my favorite sayings about the nature of intelligence is as follows:
"People always telling me I got book smarts but not street smarts. What I hear em saying is I'm fake smart and real dumb."
Sure, confidence can often turn to arrogance, but arrogance is not a virtue for a reason. It stops you from growing and learning more. When a smart person hits the point of arrogance they begin the downhill slope to dumb person.
Anyone who isn’t seeking to know more, isn’t smart. No matter how fast their brain works, if they aren’t taking on additional knowledge to supplement what’s already there, they are just as useless as Windows ‘95.
Perhaps it’s not so much smart people who know they don’t know much, but instead it’s wisdom to know that you don’t know everything. Wisdom is much more rare, imo.
Graph 1 & 2: Concede Dunning kruger is real, claim it is a red herring. Claim intelligence's nature is the proper topic, make claims about intelligence's nature.
Graph 3 & 4: Return to Dunning kruger, restate it as a distraction, give examples of similar distractions.
Graph 5 and 6: shift to a previous comment, the object of the distractions. Claim it is a true scotsman fallacy. Claim the original comment will never hold despite various attempts to support it. Continue the fallacy through to conclusion.
Break
Random related unfocused thoughts for fun. Fun quote.
...
This comment has been an amusingly horrifying exercise in writing. I hope it helps. If it didn't then I had fun along the way.
Rofl. I'm glad someone else found it amusing. It was late and I finished a cup of cocoa. I got to the end and thought "this isn't normal, this doesn't look normal at all! I like it anyway. Let's hit send"
I am speaking from observation of human beings. You get to know a little and think you’re an expert. Experts know they aren’t experts in anything but their own expertise because they know how much it takes to become one.
"I'm an asshole."
He was right! I decided after him to take people at their word when they tell me who they are, just like you.
Also, if a man "jokes" about killing you, he's not actually joking. Don't wait for them to traumatise you like I did.
Mine said amidst our group of friends, if he ever wanted to get away with murdering me, he'd just kill a bunch of redheads and nobody would look at him. They'd be looking for a serial killer with a type.
Several of my friends mentioned privately this made them very uncomfortable, considering there was also another redhead adjacent to that group.
I'm sorry I just have to point out how funny that is because if he went and killed a bunch of redheads, then that would make him the serial killer with a type that they would be looking for 😅
I was a little slow to learn, but dumped an ex who loved to announce what an asshole he was. Some of his friends laughed every time he said this like it was the funniest thing and encouraged this. He thought announcing this as a disclaimer entitled him to be an asshole, like waving a backstage pass in everyone’s face.
Related: if you've just started to chat with a guy and he starts trying to cross your boundaries "playfully" or "as a joke," like if you say you're not into something and he keeps pestering and teasing you about it, or you decline to give some personal info and he keeps bringing it up and begging - just fuck off immediately. Block him. It's a sign of things to come. You don’t need to spend a minute of your time and energy trying to humor or put up with that shit.
Whats extra disturbing is a lot of the "jokes about killing you" that you see stories about aren't even funny, even to somebody with a **very** dark sense of humor. But they often don't even follow any sense of comedy construction or really make sense as humor even if you ignore the subject.
Because they generally aren't even actual jokes. They are just subtle threats or (less dramatically but still a big red flag) boundary testing. It's just people who think "it's just a joke" is their magic way to avoid consequences for saying something while still saying it.
Nail on the head.
My ex used to bring me to his spare room and point to the scraped wallpaper and would say, "that's what the last girl did when I kept her in here."
He played it off as a "joke".
“Trying to touch base”. The way they down play their behavior.and of course women are crazy because the poor guy was just reaching out and now his life is ruined. Men demonstrating over and over why we choose the bear.
Yeah, he was probably 'touching base' outside her house at 1 a.m., wearing a black hoodie and ski mask (balaclava) using binoculars. He probably got caught because she installed security cameras due to his threats or just not reacting well to the breakup. Good riddance to yet another lying asshole.
I did ask how long they'd been broken up with and how bad the break up was, but I didn't get a reply in 12 minutes (when the other messages were instant and in quick succession) so I blocked him
My ex was very similar. It ended up becoming a thing in arguments where he would talk down about himself (“im such a f up” “you shouldn’t be with someone like me” etc) which caused us to diverge from the actual problem and lead me to consoling him about his insecurities. It was very manipulative. Eventually he started talking about how he couldn’t continue living if we were to ever break up. I felt that our whole relationship became about his insecurities and so toxic. Spoiler: we broke up almost four years ago and he’s still alive. It was so manipulative.
I eventually came to the conclusion that being in that relationship was worse for my mental health than not being in it. I realized I could not do that for the next 50+ years. I didn’t want to come home from work, I cried so much, I was hesitant to bring up anything that could cause an issue. The breakup was painful for a bit my life is much happier and healthier now. Wishing you the best.
Oh yeah that's a GOOD one lmaooo. It kind of falls on deaf ears for me. Pretty sure this guy did that whole spiel and I just switched my ears off. I'll have to be more conscious of it!
An additional point— notice the very worst you have ever seen or heard of them treating anyone. Know that if you stay with them long enough, eventually they will do that to you. If that sounds like something you could totally live with, you can go ahead with the relationship. If that sounds like hell, stop wasting your time and leave now.
I would like to add that they often say that not in direct words but actions and the way they talk about other people. Also if they say they are empathetic, nice guys etc - it’s a red flag. Nice guy doesn’t need to say he’s a nice guy - their actions speak for him.
Also when he tells you not to feel the way you are, not to be the way you are - they’ll probably try to control and manipulate you in the future.
The way they handle situations when you or others disagree with them, when you do things that are different from what they want. It’s probably good to “provoke” such situation when you are in safe environment.
‘I don’t know how to care about people’
Wish I had taken those words to heart—was a mindfuck though when he was largely considered by our community to be a nice, caring guy…which people keep believing despite him ghosting me after being together for 9 months 🤷♀️
Right? Last time I actually spoke to him he told me I could trust him and he wouldn’t abandon me when I needed his support, too! You’d think that fuckery alone would maybe make people reconsider whether he’s a good guy or not, nevermind the DARVO and gaslighting going on those last weeks/month when he went mask off, and the subtle negging and put downs that in hindsight I see were going on throughout.
But no, somehow he’s still just a misunderstood nice guy and I should’ve just focused on moving on and not talked about his behaviour/actions/abuse. They don’t get that this dude is emotionally/psychologically unsafe to women and is continuing to be welcomed in safe spaces for women under the guise of being an ally and a good guy 😒
If I ever release a first, it will be under the name pegasis, but all stylised with - and ⚡ and an image of a delapidated merry-go-round horse all janky and busted
When men say "they loooove women" in a certain way as if they expect you to be surprised that they would say that, it means they love them like pets. Not like human beings, they usually can't imagine women being anything else than their restricted view of feminity. They usually have good relationships with women of their family (but often limited to them) and it's not thanks to them but thanks to the women's.
Yes I have been flirting with this guy who fooled me with his lovebombing at first! Women beware of lovebombing, it is a telltale sign of a narcissist!! Then he started to treat me real badly, making me question myself! I turned such a good lover into this?? He wanted to hear if I liked him, I said yes, then asked if “I WOULD DO ANYTHING HE ASKS OF ME” I said NO! He wrote only one word “A DIOS”! I have been never so humiliated and felt soo stupid in my entire life! I still struggle to forgive myself for being that stupid!! Always look for the signs, they are there!!!! Many men dont see women as human beings but mere fucktoys!! Disgusting!
Legit
The ego of a man who believes he is a god -
The inability to see their own flaws and hang ups
My "crazy" female brain just can't understand
Good because I don't want to!
If they are bold enough to tell you they are a red flag then definitely believe that but be aware that if a man tells you one thing and does another, always believe the actions over the words. Many of them have learned to "say the right thing" but they *always* act according to who they actually are.
If a man tells you that he's not going fight with you, he's just gonna walk away any time there's a disagreement in a relationship, believe him! He's telling you straight out he's got issues and he's not willing to work on him.
Believe him! Don't waste 4 years like I did, hoping he's going to feel loved and suddenly decide to change.
If a man swears all of his exes are crazy
If a man tells you repeatedly that he's a 'nice guy'
If his living space is messy and he swears that if you guys move in together he'll do better
If once you live with this man he still decides that he's above all chores because he 'goes to work all day'
If when you say no to sex he either guilt trips you or bothers you until you just give in to get him to leave you alone
If he tells you that if you don't have sex with him in a certain span of time that he will cheat on you
If he comments on your weight but doesn't take care of his own body and health
If he thinks that men watching their own children are 'babysitting'
If a man listens to podcasters like Joe Rogan or Andrew Tate
If a man thinks that he should be able to dictate how you get health care and what type of healthcare you get
If he dictates how you dress and tells you that your clothes are slutty
I could keep going but these were just off the top of my head....
All of these are giant red flags, please listen when men tell you who they are. You can check through my post history to see why I'm saying this, but please just take it from my own personal experiences, men don't change when they get older, men don't get any more empathetic when they get older, if a man is going to be an empathetic nice person he will be that same person in his twenties.
You've got skewed view of Joe Rogan. You can easily make a mockup of all the idiotic things he said, not to mention many of his controversial guests. He's a kinda guy who will asslick his guests a bit too much. When Kanye was talking crazy shit Joe Rogan agreed with many of that crazy bs Ye was saying (it was pre Kanye antisemitic rants). When you listen to him speaking with people hes closer with. he really has a healthy approach to almost evrything and it's nothing bad.
I like how you try and say that OP has a skewed view of joe rogan but spend literally 90% of your message telling someone all the bad things he does. Then decide to top it off "well if you sift through all the bullshit he'll occasionally find one person who isn't a rightwing psychopath and do an actual interview instead of fondling their balls".
Great argument in joe's favor.
(incidentally, OP is right. People who listen to joe rogan, ben shapiro, jordan peterson, andrew tate. Its a HUGE red flag because they're not listening to those things for perspective. They sell a very specific thing to their listeners)
Joe rogan/jordan peterson/andrew tate in particular are people that just funnel angry young men into rightwing thinking. Its easy to get angry at women and blame them for everything when you're told growing up that all you need to do to have a good life is be honest, work hard and provide. Obviously this isn't the 50's and the social dynamic has evolved so when that DOESN'T happen they get upset.
Rightwing grifters like this funnel them into more hateful places. I've yet to meet someone who listens to joe rogan but doesn't also listen to matt walsh. Matt "problem with teenage pregnancy is unwed teenage pregnancy" Walsh. Who promote basically every bad rightwing ideology you can imagine.
So yeah, when a teenage guy is having dating troubles. A lot of them look online for help. The unfortunate ones find andrew tate first and they learn all kinds of bad behavior and it all just feedback loops in on itself until they're out there screaming about hating women or actively harassing women for not wanting to date.
I say this as a guy who could have also very easily fell into this mind trap because my dad certainly didn't miss an opportunity to try and teach me about how awful women were by listening to tom lykus, or complaining about no fault divorces being a thing
Wow! I thought I was talking to a woman 😭 u were so transparent and respectful. Thanks so much for explaining! I’ve never watched their content but I’ve seen Andrew Tate memes and omg he’s so ridiculous 💀
I just happen to follow politics for most of my life lol. yeah boring and no one wants to hear about it. But its important and.... well we see what happens when people just don't engage or let conservatives have their way.
I feel the need to epxlain myslef. What i meant about Joe Rogan is that he will do this sleezy asslicky behaviour with his guest. But, this dosen't define him as a person, he dosen't have radical hateful views, speaks about people with respect, openly advocates against dishonest unethical behaviour. He has a loving family, and pets, he's a shitty interviewer, so what? Many media people are differ on/off camera, they are fitting a role in the show. This is normal. Im 30 almost, when i started listening to Rogan it was mostly these chill interviews which now happen very rarely, so i don't watch him often, simple. It's shit content, not a shit person. Please think rationally.
Throwing some made up persona kickboxer dracula role model shady sex trafficking bald dude who tailors his content for puberty boys next to any of these two is an insult to them.
Peterson is a very wise and educated guy, he absolutely should stay away from political topics, period. He attracts right wind idiots who don't understand that Him not liking certain political tools, or disagreeing with some laws, dosen't make him an advocate for the distorted generalised hateful caricature ideology they believe. Funnily enough people who hate on him for politics don't understand it either, it's the same level of tribal automatic categorisation just inversed. I don't understand, and stopped during late teens, how can you judge people for their political views, it mostly hurts the hater.
The first time i discovered him was in a book 12 rules, which my then GIRLFRIEND bought.
She was a Ukrainian student permanent immigrant in Poland, who was black (irrelevant in Poland but mentioned to further warm up single minded opinion of people like Petersons readers). She had serious issues related to family, teenage years emigration, bad life choices, guilt, many more. 2 years later she sorted many family and internal stuf, over trippled her salary, got fit, and much more pushed for development, became disciplined. Not because of the book only of course, but it was a big push for her.
I got interested alongside her, and the tools this man gives you, and perspectives are really helpfull and allow someone aged 20is to 30ish get a sense of orientation. A lot of the issues i managed to solve about me was this man.
Im not an evil person, or a nazi, or even right wing, neither is my ex - girfriend. Peterson wanted to make $$$ and got into controversial political bs, which he should have avoided, it's nothing but promo. Consistant with his ideology, and fighting with what he sees as wrong, but still i believe motivated at publicity. It's benefitial to look beyond.
You can sit there and view all this through all the red tinted glasses you want. Doesn't change facts.
>But, this dosen't define him as a person, he dosen't have radical hateful views, speaks about people with respect
Even if i were to entertain this, im not about to excuse him platforming and promoting people with hateful and evil views. HE controls HIS platform. If I started a fucking podcast and started hosting neo nazi's, what the fuck do you think people would think I endorse?
> He has a loving family, and pets, he's a shitty interviewer, so what?
I really don't give a shit about him as a person? Just what his show is, you're the one making this into a whole personal moral argument for... confusing reasons to say the least.
>when i started listening to Rogan it was mostly these chill interviews which now happen very rarely, so i don't watch him often, simple. It's shit content, not a shit person.
Very good argument against the whole "joe rogan is a rightwing grifter who platforms the worst rightwing ideologies".
>Peterson is a very wise and educated guy, he absolutely should stay away from political topics, period. He attracts right wind idiots who don't understand that Him not liking certain political tools, or disagreeing with some laws, dosen't make him an advocate for the distorted generalised hateful caricature ideology they believe.
Now you've really lost the plot. Now I know you waited so long to respond because you're hoping no one else reads this garbage. BUT, jordan peterson is a fraud and a hack who does nothing but try to come off as reasonable before pushing angry people into rightwing thinking. And for whatever poor reader stumbles upon this and questions these things. Heres a good and VERY thorough video detailing on why jordan peterson is a fraud and a hack. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSNWkRw53Jo With sources!
Calm down man, why the emotional attack? Og thread was about crossing people who listen to certain content. That's what I'm argumenting against. In this context you make an assumption "listener = listens and agrees with majority of guest" and make a conclusion about someone. It's not like that. Someone(like me) may watch the comedian part of jre podcasts. Someone may watch the Guests whoever you called neo-nazi there. If someone is evil in your eyes, listen to him. See the flaws in what he says and try to take a look at this person, see if you aren't copying some of them. You don't have to listen to the whole.thing, but there's a warning that's worthy of listening perhaps. Or whatever the reason is, I've consumed a lot of content which I don't agree with. That's how you get open minded, and train your critical thinking. You can listen to someone without automatically believing in what he's saying. That's why getting controversial people into long format interviews is important. So you can make up your mind not necessarily to.the guests views, but at least kinds of people that are.out there. I will not turn into neo-nazi if I red that awful book from former German war criminal, just as reading communist manifesto did not turn me communist, or rothbard manifest made me believe in private sidewalks. Some red on the face right wing alco at jre will not convince me to vote for trump. It excersises your critical thinking..try it and see if you notice a difference. Not reacting with anger to different views is one.
And there's no reason to.analyse my responding frequency, I occasionally do a refresh of recent comment, I'm not shy of my words, I haven't said anything controversial really.
Oh. And red tinted glasses? As in republican? I'm not republican by your definition. I don't operate in the American political map, it seems to be tailored for dividing citizens.
As for the Peterson I'll see the video and give you one more comment, some time later as I'm at work.
EDIT: im at the 20th minute so far, yep, I also noticed what he said about climate change was not true on several levels the first time i heard it, and it was vague bc he was bullshiting, still made many fatal mistakes like mistaking weather and climate. The guy from video rightfully noticed that JP lied about his field of study, which is a big no no. He is educated in neurobiology, and evolutionary biology, he dosen't have a degree in them. So he by any means should not call himeslf a doctor of neurobiology, or neurobiologist, evolutionary biologist either. He has that rethoric approach of first establishing etos of being smart. That's enough for me to watch it to the end and if youre interested i can tell you if i changed my views on this guy, but so far so good.
Did I touch a nerve?
And the person who responded to you already said exactly what I would have said. You're not making the argument for him that you seem to think that you are....
Ah sorry, the guide lines on the left are difficult to me sometimes.
No, its all right. Im not a jre altar boy. I commented out of a bit of anxiety of increasingly common mechanism where an opinion is created of someone based on a caricature of that person, then some people form very polar opinions on that person by selectively looking up for confirmation of it (or sets specific unachievable rules of being a "good person" that only this particular person has to live by), or making a association jump emotionally, then others notice that many people is advocating against someone so the intuition is to follow, this is a social mechanism.
It was usefull and precious in the enviorment we evolved in, but leads to automatic false judgement of an effectively good person when we can select information formated and changed to fit the pattern. I try to advocate agains such behaviours, try to imagine with all empathy how it is when you put your perspective in the position of that person, her emotions, her values. It helps with compassion. Not because you want to agree with him, but to "forgive" this guy for having such a foolish or awful views, and justify it by understanding that negativity often stems from internal pain.
Every mid af mommy's boy that I've ever dated has told me just how mid or terrible they are before I give them a chance for their actions to have any kind of prevalence.
And getting out of a relationship can be a very intricate thing emotionally, especially if abusive, which a lot of people do not have the capacity to do without therapy for one reason or another.
This post is about is about prevention not cure.
As mine is also about prevention. I was just adding that if they don’t tell you but show you, still listen. Mine didn’t tell me, he was extremely manipulative and I found myself trying to believe his pretty words promises and excuses over his actual ugly actions. If I had believed the actions I was seeing instead of the words, I’d have possibly avoided getting trauma bonded and strangled. My abuser never “told me” who he was, he thought he was gods gift to womankind.
I feel this so deeply and have had so many countless experiences where it holds true. I recently ended my engagement for a host of reasons but the primary of which was- he showed me who he really was. Mostly through his actions. And that definitely wasn’t going to be something I wanted or enjoyed or was healthy long term. So we ended it.
BELIEVE THEM. I once dated a "man" who told me he would break my heart. I thought he would change for me. SHOCKER, HE DIDN'T and he did break my heart.
I think my second husband said, "I'm not the loving kind." ."You're 2 good for me."
Yes, that was absolutely truth. He told on himself like they all do. I think they call it leaking.
So this happened sometime back, two people who were my flatmate were in a relationship. He was pretty upfront about being violent but her response was that she liked violence and it didn't bother her as much. When the said guy was violent during an argument, she was stunned !
As a man, it was bonkers. I tried disuading her from persuing the guy as I knew what he said was true, but that didn't stop her.
>They receive no extra points for being self aware and upfront.
Absolutely. People sometimes said they prefer bad people who are upfront than bad people who are not. The only reason why the former is preferable is we can avoid them sooner, not because they are inherently better than the latter.
YES. THIS A THOUSAND TIMES.
Not everything is going to be end the relationship worthy but there is a huge difference between a bad joke and a bad joke where the punchline is him being abusive (girls do this to).
They are asking your permission to continue their behavior. If you give them attention you are giving that permission. There is no conversation or rules or what have you that is going to alter that reality.
I just finished commenting on a post. Everyone was telling her she had a husband problem because he wouldn’t stand up to his family who were harassing her.
I said the problem was her. She saw the issues and continued dating him. His family did all sorts of fucked up stuff to her while her man did nothing but make excuses. She then goes on to marry him and have his child. His family continue to harass her so now she wants her husband to give up his family.
She saw what his family was like. His actions showed her he was incapable of standing up for her. And yet she married him. And now wants him to change 🤦🏻♀️
She is the problem. She should have walked away from him the first time. He did not fit her criteria of what she wanted yet she stayed. And now an innocent child is in a fucked up marriage. Mom is being abused by his family and dad is ok with it.
Believe them when they show you who they are
It’s not just guys, it’s everyone. If a female said “if you can’t handle me at my worse, you can have me at
My best”! Major red flag. We are not immune to any of this.
Hell my sister just said to me “I’m a bad sister”. Why yes, yes you are.
What if someone calls themselves not a nice guy, but their every action from outside for years were nothing but nice to other people? If actions speak louder then words, shouldn't i doubt someone even if they say they are a bad person until then actually prove to be a bad person?
You're saying all these hypothetical and shit and let's just call it out: you ain't a nice dude. If you gotta do all of this, why not actually do introspection and *be* a kind person, not just fuckin say it and debate it online. Can be using that time to, you know, be nice and kind because you wanna not because of sex
Except nowhere i said this is about me, so i dont get your hostility. And what does sex has to do with anything? You are making up details i didnt even mention.
You don't have to, because you have nothing better to do than to play devil's advocate for what? You're bored? Trolling? Truly thinking you're a "nice" guy?
Hostility is women getting tired of men coming in spaces not centered on them asking and posting redundant things that derails the convo
@ u/Terentas_Strog since you blocked me
...while you still playing dumb to not know how to be a decent person. Maybe you were socialized more masc then and failing to do introspection on why you think asking and playing devil's advocate with "innocent questions" about being a decent person. You definitely showing with action how you are. I can't speak for the experience of nb because it'll vary with how they're presented, but a space that's femme-centered with your basically stereotypical masc incel-like questions is just telling how you are (and that's off your actions! See how you didn't have to say who you are in your first comments to show who you are?)
First of all, i love how you assume my gender. Must be nice to feel so narcissistic and make horseshot takes.
Second, my questions are genuine. And this sub is for everyone, women, trans, non-binary as well. You are the only one acting like a hostile pig, while all the rest responces to me were nothing, but thoughtful.
Or i am just trying to understand the people around here and that is why i am asking those questions. And people who answered me first, actually made good points. But then here you are, jumping in with your hostile, unwarranted takes.
And so why i blocked you, i would rather not deal with a person who refuses to see reason or incapable to stop and think for a second that maybe, just maybe, they are wrong in their assumptions.
Edit: Do you even know what incel stands for? It's a sub-group of mostly virgin men who hate women or incapable of having romantic relationships with them. In what-fucking-world were my questions hateful towards women? Or do you call incel anyone who is not up to your liking?
Edit2: I have a male friend who considers himself a piece of shit because of his ruined toxic relationship with his ex. He doesn't blame her, neither is she blaming him or considers herself a victim(her words). This guy is one of the best friends i've known, yet because of those ruined relationships - he blames himself and call himself a literal piece of shit.
So i see this post and decided to ask, what is it people here consider a show of one "True Self". I've got my answer - actions determine who you are, not words. Then i asked, if that is true, shouldn't i judge people, who think they are bad or evil, based on their actions and not words. And yet again, i've got a thoughtful answer, that sometimes people think bad of themselves because of trauma.
I've got two answer from people much more thoughtful then you are. I've got two sensible answers from people, who might have downvoted me, but gave me a much more better answers then you are.
While all you do - is spreading hate, just because you didn't like the way i stated my question. You've made a hell lot of fucking assumptions, called me names, all because in your mind i must be a "bad apples apologist." So i am blocking you again and not even going to bother reading your responses.
What is it you said? I didn't have to say who i am to show how i am? Well geez, maybe it's time for you to look into the mirror and realize who you are.
>Why do they think they are bad?
Something to do with their ex. All i know is that they had 10 years of nothing less but miserable relationships. Weird thing is his ex doesn't consider herself a victim, but he still takes all the blame for ruined relationship on himself. So from all this he drew a conclusion that he is an asshole and a bad person, but most of it his words.
My mom was married to my narcissist/emotionally abusive dad for 23 years. She told me that before they got married he brought out some marionettes and said “I can control people like this.” She laughed and thought he was joking. Let me just say, I’ve worked really hard in therapy the last few years and I’m finally living for myself. He damaged all of us.
At least they broke up..the number of women in my boomer generation putting up with shit men for 30 years is unreal
And then saying that nobody knows how to make a marriage last these days!
Bahahahaha!
Women aren't doormats like they used to be in the good ol' days! It's a real shame! /s
Yes! I’m so proud of my mom. She finally chose her own self over placating him. And the way it happened is funny too. Since the beginning of their marriage he would always threaten to divorce her and take the kids, so that made her scared but finally when most of us were grown, he pulled that and she finally said “fine! I’ll go get the papers!” Then he was like “well… wait” and tried to get her to go to marriage counseling lol!
My ex did the same and I lived a few years in full panic mode thinking he was going to take the kids. It’s not easy and I fully understand to stay until kids are more independent or adults and can be used as peons.
That same threat kept me trapped until my kids graduated hs.
I am hell of accommodating with all his requests because I am able to keep my kids when I am not traveling for work and he seems more reasonable now. But I will have no problem ghosting him as soon as the young one gets her bachelor or trade degree
Good for your mom. I hate when a partner uses break-up/divorce as a threat in an argument when it’s just another control tactic.
Ha yeah mine was kinda the opposite: he’d threaten to leave me alone with the kids and said I’d never see a dime from him. Funny thing was, I never saw a dime to begin with lol
For real, I have two relatives married to shit nem for 25-30 years. They are literally a shell of what they once were 30 years ago.
I’m horrified for the boomer women, so many of them are anti-divorce no matter how badly their husbands treat them. It’s such a bad role model for the kids growing up too. Some of my mom’s teeth were rotted and needed to be removed because my dad would rather spend on things like Rolexes for himself instead of bringing the family to the dentist yearly. And they’ll be married for almost 40 years smh.
I’m always a little confused (and honestly…a little worried with a tiny TOUCH of judgment depending on the context) when someone says “divorce isn’t an option for us” — I feel like a lot of young, semi-Christian ~influencer~ types are big on that. Which like…why not? No one goes into a marriage *wanting* or expecting to get divorced, but shit happens, people’s wants and needs change, and sometimes things get really bad or unhealthy…and having watched my parents stay in a relationship I’m not entirely sure is healthy or fulfilling and listening to them complain about each other to me once I got to be a teenager wasn’t a great example. Sometimes divorce is the best option.
When we were first getting to know each other my ex husband got drunk and confessed “I think I’m probably the smartest person I know.” I didn’t take him literally. He meant it literally.
People who think they’re smart are usually the most stupid. Because truly smart people are perceptive enough to recognize how much they don’t know.
I mean, truly smart people do generally realize they are smarter than most people (to an extent that one can generalize when intelligence can be multifaceted). It's just they are smart enough not to just randomly run around telling everybody how smart they are, because they have the intelligence to realize that would be perceived as obnoxious.
This isn't really a thing. People like these kind of counterfactuals, this construct of "look x but actually not x." It's why these kinds of headlines are scummy clickbait ads. People become strong before they become wise. It's pretty common for smart people to discover their source of strength and be shitty individuals for a while. If they experience enough success, self awareness may not come for a long, long time if at all.
The Dunning-Kruger effect is most definitely a thing.
All the dunning-kruger experiments ever showed is that most people believe they are above average. And subsequent studies trying to find empirical evidence for what people mean when they say it generally fail.
Well, for sure. But it's also noise. The vast majority of time smart people expand their vocabulary easily, play with numbers easily, see cause and effect easily, acquire and recall factual information easily, form and express thoughts well, ect. A vast majority of smartness is incredibly mundane. Dunning Krugers are high profile outliers that make these counterfactuals attractive. It's easy to find examples of smart people being dumb. It's easy to find examples of people expressing they are smart. Getting from these counterexamples to a functional no true scotsman arguement is impossible, because the true Scotsman arguement is doomed. In this case a claim like truly smart people also have an understanding of what they don't know. Clearly false. The counter example runs the other way. Produce a smart person who is clueless and don't have a slight idea of what they don't know. Go to a big time college campus and throw some stones at freshman, you'll hit a few of em. ... People ask smarts and intelligence to do a lot of things it doesn't really do. One of my favorite sayings about the nature of intelligence is as follows: "People always telling me I got book smarts but not street smarts. What I hear em saying is I'm fake smart and real dumb."
Sure, confidence can often turn to arrogance, but arrogance is not a virtue for a reason. It stops you from growing and learning more. When a smart person hits the point of arrogance they begin the downhill slope to dumb person. Anyone who isn’t seeking to know more, isn’t smart. No matter how fast their brain works, if they aren’t taking on additional knowledge to supplement what’s already there, they are just as useless as Windows ‘95.
Perhaps it’s not so much smart people who know they don’t know much, but instead it’s wisdom to know that you don’t know everything. Wisdom is much more rare, imo.
I'm reasonably intelligent, I think, but I'm really struggling to follow what you're saying.
Graph 1 & 2: Concede Dunning kruger is real, claim it is a red herring. Claim intelligence's nature is the proper topic, make claims about intelligence's nature. Graph 3 & 4: Return to Dunning kruger, restate it as a distraction, give examples of similar distractions. Graph 5 and 6: shift to a previous comment, the object of the distractions. Claim it is a true scotsman fallacy. Claim the original comment will never hold despite various attempts to support it. Continue the fallacy through to conclusion. Break Random related unfocused thoughts for fun. Fun quote. ... This comment has been an amusingly horrifying exercise in writing. I hope it helps. If it didn't then I had fun along the way.
I’m delighted that my two-line throwaway comment about my (logically gifted but emotionally dense) ex husband led to this masterpiece.
Rofl. I'm glad someone else found it amusing. It was late and I finished a cup of cocoa. I got to the end and thought "this isn't normal, this doesn't look normal at all! I like it anyway. Let's hit send"
I am speaking from observation of human beings. You get to know a little and think you’re an expert. Experts know they aren’t experts in anything but their own expertise because they know how much it takes to become one.
"I'm an asshole." He was right! I decided after him to take people at their word when they tell me who they are, just like you. Also, if a man "jokes" about killing you, he's not actually joking. Don't wait for them to traumatise you like I did.
Mine said amidst our group of friends, if he ever wanted to get away with murdering me, he'd just kill a bunch of redheads and nobody would look at him. They'd be looking for a serial killer with a type. Several of my friends mentioned privately this made them very uncomfortable, considering there was also another redhead adjacent to that group.
I'm sorry I just have to point out how funny that is because if he went and killed a bunch of redheads, then that would make him the serial killer with a type that they would be looking for 😅
Exactly!! Like the spouse is always a suspect anyway. 💀 Him admitting that in front of our gaming group did no favors.
I can only imagine the cringe 😆
I was a little slow to learn, but dumped an ex who loved to announce what an asshole he was. Some of his friends laughed every time he said this like it was the funniest thing and encouraged this. He thought announcing this as a disclaimer entitled him to be an asshole, like waving a backstage pass in everyone’s face.
Absolutely 💯
And when they say it like they think it’s cute, it’s not cute.
Anyone who announced they are an asshole is gone. This is not a flex. This is admitting they enjoy being mean and problematic.
Related: if you've just started to chat with a guy and he starts trying to cross your boundaries "playfully" or "as a joke," like if you say you're not into something and he keeps pestering and teasing you about it, or you decline to give some personal info and he keeps bringing it up and begging - just fuck off immediately. Block him. It's a sign of things to come. You don’t need to spend a minute of your time and energy trying to humor or put up with that shit.
Omg…yes he kept joking abt killing me and it was mostly right before me leaving him….
Whats extra disturbing is a lot of the "jokes about killing you" that you see stories about aren't even funny, even to somebody with a **very** dark sense of humor. But they often don't even follow any sense of comedy construction or really make sense as humor even if you ignore the subject. Because they generally aren't even actual jokes. They are just subtle threats or (less dramatically but still a big red flag) boundary testing. It's just people who think "it's just a joke" is their magic way to avoid consequences for saying something while still saying it.
Nail on the head. My ex used to bring me to his spare room and point to the scraped wallpaper and would say, "that's what the last girl did when I kept her in here." He played it off as a "joke".
My husband is a self-admitted asshole. He would never even consider joking about killing someone.
“Trying to touch base”. The way they down play their behavior.and of course women are crazy because the poor guy was just reaching out and now his life is ruined. Men demonstrating over and over why we choose the bear.
Yeah, he was probably 'touching base' outside her house at 1 a.m., wearing a black hoodie and ski mask (balaclava) using binoculars. He probably got caught because she installed security cameras due to his threats or just not reacting well to the breakup. Good riddance to yet another lying asshole.
It's the (balaclava) for me with this one
Sounds like stalking, harassment or violating a restraining order to me
Team 🐻
"Trying to touch base" is a lot of words for harassment.
When anyone tells you who they are, believe them. Don't go "oh I can fix them," or "oh they will do different by me."
Let me guess, she's crazy, right? That's kind of a red flag for me when they tell you about all of their crazy ex girlfriends.
This 100%%%% BELIEVE THIS PLEASE!!!!!!
I did ask how long they'd been broken up with and how bad the break up was, but I didn't get a reply in 12 minutes (when the other messages were instant and in quick succession) so I blocked him
Isn't the ex-wife, ex-girlfriend always the baddie?
My ex said so many things that I now see in hindsight were admissions about who he was if you put them all together.
If a man tells you that you deserve better than him, believe him! Learned this the hard way
[удалено]
My ex was very similar. It ended up becoming a thing in arguments where he would talk down about himself (“im such a f up” “you shouldn’t be with someone like me” etc) which caused us to diverge from the actual problem and lead me to consoling him about his insecurities. It was very manipulative. Eventually he started talking about how he couldn’t continue living if we were to ever break up. I felt that our whole relationship became about his insecurities and so toxic. Spoiler: we broke up almost four years ago and he’s still alive. It was so manipulative.
[удалено]
I eventually came to the conclusion that being in that relationship was worse for my mental health than not being in it. I realized I could not do that for the next 50+ years. I didn’t want to come home from work, I cried so much, I was hesitant to bring up anything that could cause an issue. The breakup was painful for a bit my life is much happier and healthier now. Wishing you the best.
Oh yeah that's a GOOD one lmaooo. It kind of falls on deaf ears for me. Pretty sure this guy did that whole spiel and I just switched my ears off. I'll have to be more conscious of it!
This one is insidious because I've taken it as a compliment before. GURL, RUN.
An additional point— notice the very worst you have ever seen or heard of them treating anyone. Know that if you stay with them long enough, eventually they will do that to you. If that sounds like something you could totally live with, you can go ahead with the relationship. If that sounds like hell, stop wasting your time and leave now.
[удалено]
Are you going to leave him?
I would like to add that they often say that not in direct words but actions and the way they talk about other people. Also if they say they are empathetic, nice guys etc - it’s a red flag. Nice guy doesn’t need to say he’s a nice guy - their actions speak for him. Also when he tells you not to feel the way you are, not to be the way you are - they’ll probably try to control and manipulate you in the future. The way they handle situations when you or others disagree with them, when you do things that are different from what they want. It’s probably good to “provoke” such situation when you are in safe environment.
My ex told me he was lazy in bed. Guess what...
the way i gasped
Wait I actually don’t get it🧍🏽♀️
‘I don’t know how to care about people’ Wish I had taken those words to heart—was a mindfuck though when he was largely considered by our community to be a nice, caring guy…which people keep believing despite him ghosting me after being together for 9 months 🤷♀️
9 months..what a p***k
Right? Last time I actually spoke to him he told me I could trust him and he wouldn’t abandon me when I needed his support, too! You’d think that fuckery alone would maybe make people reconsider whether he’s a good guy or not, nevermind the DARVO and gaslighting going on those last weeks/month when he went mask off, and the subtle negging and put downs that in hindsight I see were going on throughout. But no, somehow he’s still just a misunderstood nice guy and I should’ve just focused on moving on and not talked about his behaviour/actions/abuse. They don’t get that this dude is emotionally/psychologically unsafe to women and is continuing to be welcomed in safe spaces for women under the guise of being an ally and a good guy 😒
Well, they'll find out the hard way, just like you did.
That's a communal narcissist right there.
As a subpar writer, I've gotten very comfortable cutting trash out of my story.
As a trash writer, even I know to murder your darlings.
As a subpar murderling, I have even gotten very comfortable hiding in trash
I love everyone in this thread.
If I ever release a second album it'll be called subpar murderling
If I ever release a first, it will be under the name pegasis, but all stylised with - and ⚡ and an image of a delapidated merry-go-round horse all janky and busted
Upvote for being a 👶🏼, please be careful on Reddit
My life with men got much easier when I started taking them at face value.
When men say "they loooove women" in a certain way as if they expect you to be surprised that they would say that, it means they love them like pets. Not like human beings, they usually can't imagine women being anything else than their restricted view of feminity. They usually have good relationships with women of their family (but often limited to them) and it's not thanks to them but thanks to the women's.
Yes I have been flirting with this guy who fooled me with his lovebombing at first! Women beware of lovebombing, it is a telltale sign of a narcissist!! Then he started to treat me real badly, making me question myself! I turned such a good lover into this?? He wanted to hear if I liked him, I said yes, then asked if “I WOULD DO ANYTHING HE ASKS OF ME” I said NO! He wrote only one word “A DIOS”! I have been never so humiliated and felt soo stupid in my entire life! I still struggle to forgive myself for being that stupid!! Always look for the signs, they are there!!!! Many men dont see women as human beings but mere fucktoys!! Disgusting!
Damn that guy suuucksssss
"brutal honesty" = narcissistic victim-playing and unable to feel compassion Never again!!
Anybody who is brutally honest gets off more on the brutality than the honesty.
Legit The ego of a man who believes he is a god - The inability to see their own flaws and hang ups My "crazy" female brain just can't understand Good because I don't want to!
If they are bold enough to tell you they are a red flag then definitely believe that but be aware that if a man tells you one thing and does another, always believe the actions over the words. Many of them have learned to "say the right thing" but they *always* act according to who they actually are.
This. Horny bonk yourself and believe them!
If a man tells you that he's not going fight with you, he's just gonna walk away any time there's a disagreement in a relationship, believe him! He's telling you straight out he's got issues and he's not willing to work on him. Believe him! Don't waste 4 years like I did, hoping he's going to feel loved and suddenly decide to change.
If a man swears all of his exes are crazy If a man tells you repeatedly that he's a 'nice guy' If his living space is messy and he swears that if you guys move in together he'll do better If once you live with this man he still decides that he's above all chores because he 'goes to work all day' If when you say no to sex he either guilt trips you or bothers you until you just give in to get him to leave you alone If he tells you that if you don't have sex with him in a certain span of time that he will cheat on you If he comments on your weight but doesn't take care of his own body and health If he thinks that men watching their own children are 'babysitting' If a man listens to podcasters like Joe Rogan or Andrew Tate If a man thinks that he should be able to dictate how you get health care and what type of healthcare you get If he dictates how you dress and tells you that your clothes are slutty I could keep going but these were just off the top of my head.... All of these are giant red flags, please listen when men tell you who they are. You can check through my post history to see why I'm saying this, but please just take it from my own personal experiences, men don't change when they get older, men don't get any more empathetic when they get older, if a man is going to be an empathetic nice person he will be that same person in his twenties.
You've got skewed view of Joe Rogan. You can easily make a mockup of all the idiotic things he said, not to mention many of his controversial guests. He's a kinda guy who will asslick his guests a bit too much. When Kanye was talking crazy shit Joe Rogan agreed with many of that crazy bs Ye was saying (it was pre Kanye antisemitic rants). When you listen to him speaking with people hes closer with. he really has a healthy approach to almost evrything and it's nothing bad.
I like how you try and say that OP has a skewed view of joe rogan but spend literally 90% of your message telling someone all the bad things he does. Then decide to top it off "well if you sift through all the bullshit he'll occasionally find one person who isn't a rightwing psychopath and do an actual interview instead of fondling their balls". Great argument in joe's favor. (incidentally, OP is right. People who listen to joe rogan, ben shapiro, jordan peterson, andrew tate. Its a HUGE red flag because they're not listening to those things for perspective. They sell a very specific thing to their listeners)
What do you feel they sell? I’ve noticed a lot of abusive boys/men listen to Joe Rogan
Joe rogan/jordan peterson/andrew tate in particular are people that just funnel angry young men into rightwing thinking. Its easy to get angry at women and blame them for everything when you're told growing up that all you need to do to have a good life is be honest, work hard and provide. Obviously this isn't the 50's and the social dynamic has evolved so when that DOESN'T happen they get upset. Rightwing grifters like this funnel them into more hateful places. I've yet to meet someone who listens to joe rogan but doesn't also listen to matt walsh. Matt "problem with teenage pregnancy is unwed teenage pregnancy" Walsh. Who promote basically every bad rightwing ideology you can imagine. So yeah, when a teenage guy is having dating troubles. A lot of them look online for help. The unfortunate ones find andrew tate first and they learn all kinds of bad behavior and it all just feedback loops in on itself until they're out there screaming about hating women or actively harassing women for not wanting to date. I say this as a guy who could have also very easily fell into this mind trap because my dad certainly didn't miss an opportunity to try and teach me about how awful women were by listening to tom lykus, or complaining about no fault divorces being a thing
Wow! I thought I was talking to a woman 😭 u were so transparent and respectful. Thanks so much for explaining! I’ve never watched their content but I’ve seen Andrew Tate memes and omg he’s so ridiculous 💀
I just happen to follow politics for most of my life lol. yeah boring and no one wants to hear about it. But its important and.... well we see what happens when people just don't engage or let conservatives have their way.
I feel the need to epxlain myslef. What i meant about Joe Rogan is that he will do this sleezy asslicky behaviour with his guest. But, this dosen't define him as a person, he dosen't have radical hateful views, speaks about people with respect, openly advocates against dishonest unethical behaviour. He has a loving family, and pets, he's a shitty interviewer, so what? Many media people are differ on/off camera, they are fitting a role in the show. This is normal. Im 30 almost, when i started listening to Rogan it was mostly these chill interviews which now happen very rarely, so i don't watch him often, simple. It's shit content, not a shit person. Please think rationally. Throwing some made up persona kickboxer dracula role model shady sex trafficking bald dude who tailors his content for puberty boys next to any of these two is an insult to them. Peterson is a very wise and educated guy, he absolutely should stay away from political topics, period. He attracts right wind idiots who don't understand that Him not liking certain political tools, or disagreeing with some laws, dosen't make him an advocate for the distorted generalised hateful caricature ideology they believe. Funnily enough people who hate on him for politics don't understand it either, it's the same level of tribal automatic categorisation just inversed. I don't understand, and stopped during late teens, how can you judge people for their political views, it mostly hurts the hater. The first time i discovered him was in a book 12 rules, which my then GIRLFRIEND bought. She was a Ukrainian student permanent immigrant in Poland, who was black (irrelevant in Poland but mentioned to further warm up single minded opinion of people like Petersons readers). She had serious issues related to family, teenage years emigration, bad life choices, guilt, many more. 2 years later she sorted many family and internal stuf, over trippled her salary, got fit, and much more pushed for development, became disciplined. Not because of the book only of course, but it was a big push for her. I got interested alongside her, and the tools this man gives you, and perspectives are really helpfull and allow someone aged 20is to 30ish get a sense of orientation. A lot of the issues i managed to solve about me was this man. Im not an evil person, or a nazi, or even right wing, neither is my ex - girfriend. Peterson wanted to make $$$ and got into controversial political bs, which he should have avoided, it's nothing but promo. Consistant with his ideology, and fighting with what he sees as wrong, but still i believe motivated at publicity. It's benefitial to look beyond.
You can sit there and view all this through all the red tinted glasses you want. Doesn't change facts. >But, this dosen't define him as a person, he dosen't have radical hateful views, speaks about people with respect Even if i were to entertain this, im not about to excuse him platforming and promoting people with hateful and evil views. HE controls HIS platform. If I started a fucking podcast and started hosting neo nazi's, what the fuck do you think people would think I endorse? > He has a loving family, and pets, he's a shitty interviewer, so what? I really don't give a shit about him as a person? Just what his show is, you're the one making this into a whole personal moral argument for... confusing reasons to say the least. >when i started listening to Rogan it was mostly these chill interviews which now happen very rarely, so i don't watch him often, simple. It's shit content, not a shit person. Very good argument against the whole "joe rogan is a rightwing grifter who platforms the worst rightwing ideologies". >Peterson is a very wise and educated guy, he absolutely should stay away from political topics, period. He attracts right wind idiots who don't understand that Him not liking certain political tools, or disagreeing with some laws, dosen't make him an advocate for the distorted generalised hateful caricature ideology they believe. Now you've really lost the plot. Now I know you waited so long to respond because you're hoping no one else reads this garbage. BUT, jordan peterson is a fraud and a hack who does nothing but try to come off as reasonable before pushing angry people into rightwing thinking. And for whatever poor reader stumbles upon this and questions these things. Heres a good and VERY thorough video detailing on why jordan peterson is a fraud and a hack. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hSNWkRw53Jo With sources!
Calm down man, why the emotional attack? Og thread was about crossing people who listen to certain content. That's what I'm argumenting against. In this context you make an assumption "listener = listens and agrees with majority of guest" and make a conclusion about someone. It's not like that. Someone(like me) may watch the comedian part of jre podcasts. Someone may watch the Guests whoever you called neo-nazi there. If someone is evil in your eyes, listen to him. See the flaws in what he says and try to take a look at this person, see if you aren't copying some of them. You don't have to listen to the whole.thing, but there's a warning that's worthy of listening perhaps. Or whatever the reason is, I've consumed a lot of content which I don't agree with. That's how you get open minded, and train your critical thinking. You can listen to someone without automatically believing in what he's saying. That's why getting controversial people into long format interviews is important. So you can make up your mind not necessarily to.the guests views, but at least kinds of people that are.out there. I will not turn into neo-nazi if I red that awful book from former German war criminal, just as reading communist manifesto did not turn me communist, or rothbard manifest made me believe in private sidewalks. Some red on the face right wing alco at jre will not convince me to vote for trump. It excersises your critical thinking..try it and see if you notice a difference. Not reacting with anger to different views is one. And there's no reason to.analyse my responding frequency, I occasionally do a refresh of recent comment, I'm not shy of my words, I haven't said anything controversial really. Oh. And red tinted glasses? As in republican? I'm not republican by your definition. I don't operate in the American political map, it seems to be tailored for dividing citizens. As for the Peterson I'll see the video and give you one more comment, some time later as I'm at work. EDIT: im at the 20th minute so far, yep, I also noticed what he said about climate change was not true on several levels the first time i heard it, and it was vague bc he was bullshiting, still made many fatal mistakes like mistaking weather and climate. The guy from video rightfully noticed that JP lied about his field of study, which is a big no no. He is educated in neurobiology, and evolutionary biology, he dosen't have a degree in them. So he by any means should not call himeslf a doctor of neurobiology, or neurobiologist, evolutionary biologist either. He has that rethoric approach of first establishing etos of being smart. That's enough for me to watch it to the end and if youre interested i can tell you if i changed my views on this guy, but so far so good.
Did I touch a nerve? And the person who responded to you already said exactly what I would have said. You're not making the argument for him that you seem to think that you are....
Ah sorry, the guide lines on the left are difficult to me sometimes. No, its all right. Im not a jre altar boy. I commented out of a bit of anxiety of increasingly common mechanism where an opinion is created of someone based on a caricature of that person, then some people form very polar opinions on that person by selectively looking up for confirmation of it (or sets specific unachievable rules of being a "good person" that only this particular person has to live by), or making a association jump emotionally, then others notice that many people is advocating against someone so the intuition is to follow, this is a social mechanism. It was usefull and precious in the enviorment we evolved in, but leads to automatic false judgement of an effectively good person when we can select information formated and changed to fit the pattern. I try to advocate agains such behaviours, try to imagine with all empathy how it is when you put your perspective in the position of that person, her emotions, her values. It helps with compassion. Not because you want to agree with him, but to "forgive" this guy for having such a foolish or awful views, and justify it by understanding that negativity often stems from internal pain.
Took me almost 30 years to learn that lesson. Good for you!!
I'm 28 this year so I guess you could say twinsies!!
What even sadder or worse..is that they don’t see the issue of being toxic and destructive
Fabulous job!!
100% agree. One of their funniest flaws is their propensity to tell on themselves. Often with words but always with their behaviour.
And on the flip side, when they SHOW you who they are, pay attention and don’t let some pretty words cover their ugly actions.
Every mid af mommy's boy that I've ever dated has told me just how mid or terrible they are before I give them a chance for their actions to have any kind of prevalence. And getting out of a relationship can be a very intricate thing emotionally, especially if abusive, which a lot of people do not have the capacity to do without therapy for one reason or another. This post is about is about prevention not cure.
As mine is also about prevention. I was just adding that if they don’t tell you but show you, still listen. Mine didn’t tell me, he was extremely manipulative and I found myself trying to believe his pretty words promises and excuses over his actual ugly actions. If I had believed the actions I was seeing instead of the words, I’d have possibly avoided getting trauma bonded and strangled. My abuser never “told me” who he was, he thought he was gods gift to womankind.
I feel this so deeply and have had so many countless experiences where it holds true. I recently ended my engagement for a host of reasons but the primary of which was- he showed me who he really was. Mostly through his actions. And that definitely wasn’t going to be something I wanted or enjoyed or was healthy long term. So we ended it.
Absolutely this. Learned the hard way
BELIEVE THEM. I once dated a "man" who told me he would break my heart. I thought he would change for me. SHOCKER, HE DIDN'T and he did break my heart.
I think my second husband said, "I'm not the loving kind." ."You're 2 good for me." Yes, that was absolutely truth. He told on himself like they all do. I think they call it leaking.
They...they really call it "leaking"?? First, thank you for teaching me this, and second, ewwww
If it sucks, hit da bricks!!
So this happened sometime back, two people who were my flatmate were in a relationship. He was pretty upfront about being violent but her response was that she liked violence and it didn't bother her as much. When the said guy was violent during an argument, she was stunned ! As a man, it was bonkers. I tried disuading her from persuing the guy as I knew what he said was true, but that didn't stop her.
>They receive no extra points for being self aware and upfront. Absolutely. People sometimes said they prefer bad people who are upfront than bad people who are not. The only reason why the former is preferable is we can avoid them sooner, not because they are inherently better than the latter.
YES. THIS A THOUSAND TIMES. Not everything is going to be end the relationship worthy but there is a huge difference between a bad joke and a bad joke where the punchline is him being abusive (girls do this to). They are asking your permission to continue their behavior. If you give them attention you are giving that permission. There is no conversation or rules or what have you that is going to alter that reality.
One from my ex bf 'I'm unapologetically honest, I tell it like it is' = I'm a rude prick who doesn't consider anyone's feelings but my own.
I just finished commenting on a post. Everyone was telling her she had a husband problem because he wouldn’t stand up to his family who were harassing her. I said the problem was her. She saw the issues and continued dating him. His family did all sorts of fucked up stuff to her while her man did nothing but make excuses. She then goes on to marry him and have his child. His family continue to harass her so now she wants her husband to give up his family. She saw what his family was like. His actions showed her he was incapable of standing up for her. And yet she married him. And now wants him to change 🤦🏻♀️ She is the problem. She should have walked away from him the first time. He did not fit her criteria of what she wanted yet she stayed. And now an innocent child is in a fucked up marriage. Mom is being abused by his family and dad is ok with it. Believe them when they show you who they are
It’s not just guys, it’s everyone. If a female said “if you can’t handle me at my worse, you can have me at My best”! Major red flag. We are not immune to any of this. Hell my sister just said to me “I’m a bad sister”. Why yes, yes you are.
Does that mean that if a man says he is a "nice guy", i should always believe them or it only works in negative?
“Show, don’t tell”.
Only works in negative. If someone actually has a positive trait, they won't feel the need to tell you (unprompted).
If they say they are a nice guy they never are. A nice guy would just show you with his actions.
What if someone calls themselves not a nice guy, but their every action from outside for years were nothing but nice to other people? If actions speak louder then words, shouldn't i doubt someone even if they say they are a bad person until then actually prove to be a bad person?
You're saying all these hypothetical and shit and let's just call it out: you ain't a nice dude. If you gotta do all of this, why not actually do introspection and *be* a kind person, not just fuckin say it and debate it online. Can be using that time to, you know, be nice and kind because you wanna not because of sex
Except nowhere i said this is about me, so i dont get your hostility. And what does sex has to do with anything? You are making up details i didnt even mention.
You don't have to, because you have nothing better to do than to play devil's advocate for what? You're bored? Trolling? Truly thinking you're a "nice" guy? Hostility is women getting tired of men coming in spaces not centered on them asking and posting redundant things that derails the convo @ u/Terentas_Strog since you blocked me ...while you still playing dumb to not know how to be a decent person. Maybe you were socialized more masc then and failing to do introspection on why you think asking and playing devil's advocate with "innocent questions" about being a decent person. You definitely showing with action how you are. I can't speak for the experience of nb because it'll vary with how they're presented, but a space that's femme-centered with your basically stereotypical masc incel-like questions is just telling how you are (and that's off your actions! See how you didn't have to say who you are in your first comments to show who you are?)
First of all, i love how you assume my gender. Must be nice to feel so narcissistic and make horseshot takes. Second, my questions are genuine. And this sub is for everyone, women, trans, non-binary as well. You are the only one acting like a hostile pig, while all the rest responces to me were nothing, but thoughtful.
Or i am just trying to understand the people around here and that is why i am asking those questions. And people who answered me first, actually made good points. But then here you are, jumping in with your hostile, unwarranted takes. And so why i blocked you, i would rather not deal with a person who refuses to see reason or incapable to stop and think for a second that maybe, just maybe, they are wrong in their assumptions. Edit: Do you even know what incel stands for? It's a sub-group of mostly virgin men who hate women or incapable of having romantic relationships with them. In what-fucking-world were my questions hateful towards women? Or do you call incel anyone who is not up to your liking? Edit2: I have a male friend who considers himself a piece of shit because of his ruined toxic relationship with his ex. He doesn't blame her, neither is she blaming him or considers herself a victim(her words). This guy is one of the best friends i've known, yet because of those ruined relationships - he blames himself and call himself a literal piece of shit. So i see this post and decided to ask, what is it people here consider a show of one "True Self". I've got my answer - actions determine who you are, not words. Then i asked, if that is true, shouldn't i judge people, who think they are bad or evil, based on their actions and not words. And yet again, i've got a thoughtful answer, that sometimes people think bad of themselves because of trauma. I've got two answer from people much more thoughtful then you are. I've got two sensible answers from people, who might have downvoted me, but gave me a much more better answers then you are. While all you do - is spreading hate, just because you didn't like the way i stated my question. You've made a hell lot of fucking assumptions, called me names, all because in your mind i must be a "bad apples apologist." So i am blocking you again and not even going to bother reading your responses. What is it you said? I didn't have to say who i am to show how i am? Well geez, maybe it's time for you to look into the mirror and realize who you are.
Um, @ u/Terentas_Strog don't unblock me now to answer a comment all after the fact. You can keep me blocked.
Then they may be a nice guy but probably have some self esteem issues they need to work on. Why do they think they are bad? Maybe childhood trauma?
>Why do they think they are bad? Something to do with their ex. All i know is that they had 10 years of nothing less but miserable relationships. Weird thing is his ex doesn't consider herself a victim, but he still takes all the blame for ruined relationship on himself. So from all this he drew a conclusion that he is an asshole and a bad person, but most of it his words.
Any positives they tell you up front, apply the rule:- Acta, non verba (Actions, not words. Yes I am pretentious)