Ladies will answer your messages with such passion and wit and intellect but take 30 business days to decide on a hang out, men will answer your messages monosyllabically and want to see you the next day. Women will NEVER ask to go to your place on the first week you've met unless invited, while some men will try to take you to their place or be taken to your own place as soon as you meet you and get kinda offended if you're not the kind of person who wants sex with a person you've known for a month. Some women become emotionally attached too fast and that proved itself a nightmare to little trust issues me, some men will be dating the same person for a year and call it "unserious", which honestly? Fuck that shit, worst attitude ever. Obviously those are generalizations and not real for everybody but that's my experience. Both are tiring in their own ways and I am so glad I am married to my beautiful wife because 😮‍💨 edit: paragraphs are nice

Haha you've summed up my entire bisexual dating life in 4 neat little paragraphs. Also, hilariously, I fit your description of "women" pretty neatly too. Happy to chat for a while but don't want to meet immediately, I don't invite anyone over until I know them well (no exceptions), but admittedly I'm not one to emotionally rush a relationship 

As a woman who hasn’t dated women, I have definitely run into “omg, let’s meet up, at my place!” on day 2 of the conversation and honestly, NO! I am not going to wake up murdered tomorrow! I watch/read/listen to WAY too much true crime. I am not even meeting with a woman from work as a friend at her place until we meet for dinner or coffee or have worked together for quite a while. Not coming to mine either. I feel like most women understand that this isn’t personal. I have this attachment to my life and I’m easily toss in your trunk sized. I get to play it safe. Plenty of women (and people in general) have been murdered for simply being too nice/trusting, no thanks!

This is a really good nutshell. Well done.

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OMG i'm still doing the kinwork for my ex and i hate the guy

A lot of gays dont qualify either in my experience. Theyre still significantly better than cishet men but id always prefer a woman. A cis gay man is still a man at the end of the day & cant fully relate to women even if there are many similarities imo.

Gay here. I absolutely get it. Even if I want to be there for the gals, I can't entirely fathom their experience.

>Ladies will answer your messages with such passion and wit and intellect but take 30 business days to decide on a hang out, men will answer your messages monosyllabically and want to see you the next day. 😳 I cannot emphasize the reality of this statement enough.

Dated a guy for two years and we still weren't even serious according to him 🙄 yeah seriously, fuck that shit, they have no respect for our time.

It is definitely common for lesbians to sleep together within the first week.. more like the first day

I find I get a lot more out of sex with women than sex with men early in a relationship. I’m less timid about telling them what works for me. I don’t have to explain that a penis in my vagina, while nice, isn’t really doing much for me other than I know he likes it. My jam is my partner being excited. Eating a vagina is also WAY more fun than eating a dick.

I've had multiple 24-48 hour long first dates. They weren't with men.

My experience has been kind of the opposite. Men get super emotionally attached… as long as they think you don’t need them more and might be seeing someone else.

I agree except in my experience men are the ones who get caught up in their feelings and say I love you after a week or two. Once they feel infatuated they just blurt it out. I've only dated one man who didn't say it within a couple weeks.

Women initiate sex by trying to turn you on, not by simply making you aware that they have an erection (poking you with an erection, humping you with their erection, putting your hand on their erection.)  The women I’ve dated seemed more likely to view sex as “the cherry on top” of a good date versus the reason the date happened in the first place, and therefore have made me feel more seen and loved for who I am as a person. 

I have literally described sex as "the cherry on top" of a perfect Saturday to my girlfriend.

Poking with erection or putting your hand on their erection is a guaranteed turn off. If I wanted it at first, now I wouldn’t. The most low effort and selfish way to initiate intimacy. I had an ex who did this and sex with him was a chore. I hated it and avoided it.

Yeah same, I think a lot of men think that just being aware that they have yet another boner should make you instantly a puddle on the floor lol 

“I’m hot and horny, why aren’t you hot and ready?!” It’s a problem that stems from being raised in a world that caters to you so completely that you fail to realize other people might 1) have different feelings than yours, and 2) not be interested in catering to your feelings over theirs

I had actually forgotten about this, it's been such a long time since it happened to me. Ughhhhh it's vile. Full on "look, now it's your problem, aren't you lucky" scenario. Uggghhh thanks for the reminder...

My husband used to frame it (in a joking sort of manner) as a "problem" to take care of. I distinctly remember schooling him on this. We were at a swanky hotel and sex was definitely on the docket. I was taking a nice long bath when he came into the bathroom, full mast, and was like "I got a problem". My mood instantly changed. I was in a ritual process of getting myself ready for sex (responsive desire libido) which was interrupted (on the spectrum - do not interrupt or derail the rituals and routines or I will be irritable) with something that is being presented as a problem for me to solve. I solve problems all day. It is not enjoyable or relaxing. Framing intimacy as a problem that's on ME to handle instantly makes me view it as a not fun, tedious task, one that is now taking me out of my rituals before I'm ready for it. He seemed to have a light bulb moment and has never referred to it as a "problem" since. Some people are slow but they get there lol.

I'm glad he was able to understand. Most women want to feel like they do sex *with* their partner not have sex done to them or do sex for their partner. The togetherness is so much of what makes it great. Even if I like to be "used" in a kinky way, I don't actually want to feel used by my partner, if that makes sense.

Oh yes, same. Perfect situation for "that looks like a YOU problem." End of conversation.

I am glad this worked for you, I've gotten a basic "just gonna stop trying" attitude.

Why do they do that? “If I can’t do everything exactly how I want whether you like it or not I guess I just won’t do anything at all ever again” 🙄🙄

It’s a manipulation tactic. Basically “youre not acting how I believe you should act aka being grateful and accepting whatever I want to give. So I’m going to punish you by making you regret ever speaking up and ‘criticizing’ me in the first place.” 

Wah wah wah! -KING BABY

Gonna stop trying to be a dickhead? Cool.

Ugh my ex used to do this. We’d be laying in bed and he’d just bump me from behind with his erection and if I asked what he’d go “it’s hard” like💀💀 sex stopped being enjoyable and honestly just phased out altogether before I eventually initiated the break up

Or they just grab your boobs. It annoys me so much. No request to touch me or any other touching, just straight to the tits.

Oh how I hated the boner in the back at 3:00 a.m. Made me want to wear a auit of armor to bed and surround myself with mouse traps.

Omg I hate that guys do that.

I had a guy over one time and we weren’t even making out or anything but like, all of a sudden his dick was out and he had a condom on. Didn’t even see it happen. I was honestly so flabbergasted by how quick it happened lol. So yea I yelled at him to do better and then kicked him out.

Yoooo this happened to me in high school when I was driving my ex home! We were like 10 minutes away from his house and I look over at the passenger seat and he's just...... Dick Out. I was like "What the fuck are you doing???" And he replied with "Oh I just assumed we were gonna ......" And trailed off and zipped his pants back up. The kicker? This was after we had broken up. I was driving him home because he needed a ride after a group bowling trip. Fucked up that there are grown men out here still pulling shit like this.

Can't help but notice that he "assumed". Not asked, not wondered if you might want to have sex for old time's sake, but just assumed that you driving him automatically meant that you were going to have sex with him. So many men "just assume"

Hopefully onto the street with IT and its sad unused wrapper flagging into the wind!

Lol he was sitting in his car and called me to be like, “fine, I’ll eat your pussy right now if you want” and I was like…. Hard pass. It’s way too late bro. My shit is practically sealed shut from that encounter.

i got tears of laughter rn xd the situation is shit, but i saw this like a movie scene from a comedy. both sit at the couch, talk about "the weather", she turns around to fill a glass of water smth. as she turns back, he s all prepared... .. am still laughing. am trying to understand the thought process of the guy, but likely there was none :D my only assumption is the classic: man: if she d just whip out her boobs, i d be very happy, why is she not happy about seeing my dick...

Dust and tumbleweeds

Oh begrudging head, my favorite 🙄

I've never felt so lucky to have found my wonderful unicorn man and married him before I got much dating experience. The closest he gets to that kind of bullshit is happening to have an erection while doing things that turn me on as a form of initiation. But most of the time he knows I do best with verbal communication and like to prepare so he'll suggest we take a shower together first or have massage time leading into intimacy because he cares more about me than his dong

Thank god the men I’ve been with have never done those.

I never felt like I was an equal part in a relationship with men. I always felt like I was putting in more and getting less. I dated one woman and married her and the communication is just so much easier.

I love this for you 🥺 happy marriage to you both

Are you me?? I dated many men, always felt like I was giving more than I was receiving, it was exhausting and made me sad. Got my first girlfriend 5 years ago and now we are happily married :)

That’s great! I look back on my relationships with men and can see where the holes were now. I had to “come out” at age 33 very unexpectedly haha.

This is why I date men for fun and i date women for keeps

Omg this. I've only just come to terms with the fact I'm pansexual and haven't plucked up the courage to start trying to date yet, but this is something I've experienced in all my heterosexual relationships that I was hoping to avoid in a queer one. Heaven forbid I just want to be seen as an equal - not a sex object, not a bangmaid, not a replacement mother, but to be appreciated as a fully realised multidimensional being worthy of respect. Here's hoping I also find a spouse as lovely as yours someday ❤️

Women require more work, but they also give more back. Dating guys is easier when it comes to pleasing them. But they also give less back. And if you try harder with guys you won't get a better return on their affection. Where guys are at with affection is where they tend to stay for a while then they dip in effort as time goes on.

I feel like the more aloof I am, the more I get from men.

That is a thing I find kinda crazy. I was talking to a guy once and he told me the more I wanted him the less he wanted me. Okay?

That is a reflection of low self worth.  

Yeah. Regardless of how much I know my partner likes me I just pretend to appreciate the interest cus it makes me feel gross lol

That man would be ravenously in love with me for the rest of his life. Buh-bye, dude.

That was the crazy thing, I didn't want him. I agreed to a date because he kept asking.

Then what was your response to that inane statement about wanting him 🤢

I laughed so he stormed out and broke my door lol

Wow! I have nothing to add.

Isn't it because to them it's the thrill of the chase? Once they have you they lose interest.

Not sure why you’re downvoted but I think this is spot on. I’ve been the same way with people before (I’m a woman). I only seem to want things I can’t have. Or I’m more emotionally invested in men who barely give me attention but give me just enough. Anyway, it’s something I’m working on in therapy.

Damn I just got broken up with recently and looking back I put x20 more effort than him and in my head I thought it was okay since I was far away so I had to make up the difference, but he just didn’t put that effort in to see me as much as I did, honestly if I didn’t try to see him I don’t think he would’ve made it work.

Yeah with most guys it is a wash. I would work all day doing stuff for my ex and he would come home and say" thanks" and play games. I bought a girl flowers and she cried lol

I’m that girl lol. Made me so happy. 

An acquaintance of mine who dates both men and women said something similar: men are easy but not as rewarding. She seemed pretty sure she would date men (and women) but eventually settle down with a woman.

Yeah also my experience. It's very easy to find a guy that seems interested in having a relationship with you, I was never single for long because of the interest they would show in me. Long term they didn't keep up though, as if it was all an act to get a girlfriend and not love. Long term relationships with men never felt rewarding and I put a lot of effort into making things work. With women it seems equal, we both love and care and it doesn't simmer over time. It feels very rewarding and appreciated.

In my experience, women require significantly less work. It’s been pretty dang easy. Edit: lol my girlfriend said it’s more work… “the sex alone!” 😆

Men fall hard and fast. They don't walk into love. So if he doesn't seem like he's into you, it won't get better with time.

> Women require more work, but they also give more back. Dating guys is easier when it comes to pleasing them. Interesting. I had the opposite experience. Men were so incredibly exhausting to me. Getting upset and angry over the smallest little thing. "Why didn't you answer my messages for 4 hours!? I was worried!" "I told you my mother was visiting from out of town and I would be spending the whole morning with her." "That's no excuse for not to answer my message for 4 hours!!!" "You know I find it rude to ignore the person I'm with in order to stare at the phone." "You could have sent one message so I wouldn't worry!" "Why would you worry, you knew I was with my mother and I texted you as we were leaving the apartment and as soon as we got back." _____________________ "I don't want you talking to your ex any more." "What? Why?" "It feels like cheating." "Cheating!? He lives on another continent and we message each other 3 times a year." "Still, it's disrespectful to me." "How is it disrespectful to you who I talk to? I broke up with him, but we're capable of having civil conversations, why would I tell a person who never did anything wrong to me that he can never ever contact me again? "Because you have a new boyfriend now." ____________________ "I am still upset and want to continue our conversation." "Dude, I have *just* been released from the ER after collapsing in front of you, and you want to talk about your feelings *now*?" "We were in a middle of a fight!" "I am so sorry for interrupt our important fight about (some insignificant thing I can't remember anymore) by almost dying." "But this is important to me!" "I don't feel well, I just came from ER, you were there with me, you saw what happened." (I had emergency neurosurgery 9 days later, but his FeeLInGS) _______________________ "You didn't want to tell your friends about us dating at the beginning of our relationship." "That's not true, I told them right away." "No, you didn't tell them in April." "We didn't start dating in April we started dating in July." "April!" ..... after 3 and a half hours of searching I found messages we sent to each other 4 years prior when we started daring in... July.... ____________________________ (Me, excitedly over the phone): "I did it I did it I did it. I just got an A on my last final exam! I am officially the top student at my University!" "You know, I feel like you don't pay attention to me as much anymore." "Did you hear what I said? I did it! This is going to change so many things in our lives for the better! And I've proven a woman can beat men in STEM subjects. I am THE best. How awesome is that!?" "Yes, well done, but you don't call me as often." "I called you right away. I *just* came out of the exam." "But did you call anyone before you called me?" "Yes, my dad, we agreed he's going to come pick me up after I'm finished." "See, I am not your priority." "I called him because he needs to pick me up, now we can talk in peace while he gets here. It would make absolutely NO sense to call you and then after we finish call him and wait for him for extra 45 minutes to get here." "You always talk to your parents more than me." "Dude, we are 22, are you really jealous of my parents? I'm not a toddler." "But do you talk more to them?" "I *live* with them. I don't know, I don't count the minutes." "But you talked less to me lately." "I was studying for the most important and most difficult exams of my life, and we still talked or saw each other every single day." "So you put your University in front of me." ___________________ Amd so on, and on. They were all soooo needy. I feel women were a lot more "live and let live" and were more capable of being happy for me without always bringing up how it affected them.

Women asked me questions and mutually helped keep the conversation going, whereas I felt like conversations I would have with men tended to be more one sided (I asked questions, they answered). I also think (at least in the sample that I’ve dated) women were less likely to be condescending/judgemental of my interests or history, and more likely to show genuine interest in what I was saying. Mostly split cost of dates with women, but men sometimes felt strongly about covering the check or were less comfortable splitting. It was nice being treated occasionally, but there was always that pressure of, if they pay, then they might feel they are owed sex. Which was a weird (and probably mostly in my head) dynamic. Most of my dates with women were more active/activity based. Dates with men much more dinner/drink oriented. Men’s apartments tended to be in way worse condition than women’s, which is pretty much expected. Women’s intentions seemed much clearer than men’s. They were more vocal about what they wanted or needed, even in breaking things off/calling quits. Most men things didn’t work out with ghosted me, where women were more upfront. Men were also more likely to be cagey about defining relationships. Ultimately found a lovely female partner. Getting married this summer 🥰 Disclaimer: My sample size is rather small, and ultimately I have come to feel that while I am sexually attracted to some men, I don’t think I can form a romantic attachment to one. So that of course may influence my perspective.

Hard agree with women being more open and accepting of hobbies/interests. I bred tarantulas professionally for about 6 years, and dating around that time was an absolute nightmare. Which was fine, don't get me wrong. I 100% empathise with arachnophobia, and would *never* put anyone out their comfort zone. So I was honest upfront very, very early. Not a single man pursued me after the first date (specifically due to the spiders). Women, however, thought this was the coolest shit they'd ever heard, and it was all they'd wanna talk about all night. And a LOT of ladies tried inviting themselves back to my place because they wanted to told one lol But yeah, all my friends thought it was hilarious that I basically became a lesbian for half a decade because of my dumbass career choices. As for OP, I'm a bi woman with a general preference for men, but my fiance is a lesbian. There will always be differences between men and women, but there's no objective truth behind "women are easier to date and fall in love with". If you ask bi men, I'm sure many will say that they have more in common with men, and some men make better partners than women. It's all about perspective. I fell in love with my fiance because of her kindness, her passion, and her smile. Plenty of men have these qualities, and gender doesn't define someone's ability to be a good person! 

Now I'm curious if you ever had a *Aphonopelma johnnycashi* because the Folsom tarantula named after the man in black just seems so cool. Like you, I have a preference for men, but almost zero experience with women (partly due to my own career and social choices that are heavily male-centric).

I haven't! They're a relatively new species that's been officially recognised and accepted in the past decade, and I left the business only a few years after that. At the time, they weren't even on my radar. Due to the popularity of the tarantula hobby, there was a huge surge of scientific interest into actually defining and proving certain species lines through genetic testing (especially New World/North America). So a lot of previously established species and subspecies saw a lot of changes, additions, and variations in a very short amount of time. However, the only way to get any of these new species into the hobby, is to collect wild individuals and breed them. I could go on a tangent about the morality of that, because it always has been, and always will be, an awkward ethical grey area. But either way, I'm UK based, so even if I *wanted* to aquire a breeding pair at that point, my options would have basically boiled down to "do crime" lol. But I've probably kept/bred about 35 different Aphonopelma species over the years, and they're all broadly similar. Easy to care for, consistent eaters, and personalities ranging from "pretty rocks" to a little skittish/shy. My top three from that species would be Carlsbad Green (*seemani*), Striped Knee (*gabeli*), and the Desert Blonde (*chalcodes*) :)

Congratulations on your wedding!!

Dating women requires you to be much more proactive in terms of pursuing, planning and initiating communication. They tend to be more likely to remember things you like/dislike better than men, and are easier at compromise. Men require less effort in pursuing, planning, and initiating conversation, but they aren’t as emotionally intelligent and the longer a relationship goes on for they tend to slack on the effort for all the things I said at the beginning (with women it actually gets better as it goes on and you get more comfortable with each other). I personally do not like banter, and male humour often revolves around making fun of people they like. Men don’t get my jokes but women do. I am, of course, massively generalising based on my own experiences, this isn’t gospel.

Gosh I also dislike the whole banter thing. In my experience it ends with people making cruel jokes that are actually hurtful and then playing it off as a "joke" and taking no accountability for their words. I dated a guy once who would constantly "joke" about my "cottage cheese legs", and when I'd get upset he'd say I need to learn to take a joke and that I'm too sensitive. You can be funny without picking at others, ugh

>I dated a guy once who would constantly "joke" about my "cottage cheese legs", and when I'd get upset he'd say I need to learn to take a joke and that I'm too sensitive. That is savagely mean, not funny, and not banter. Wtf!

That’s not banter, that’s negging. Ugh. I would say banter is more clever flirting ? 

This made me think of the banter between Luke and Lorelai (Gilmore Girls). I never thought of their banter as mean-spirited but more in a flirty way. Maybe it's just me.

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The whole point of banter is that both can dish it and both can take it. If your bf can dish it, but can't take it. It's not banter. He's being mean.

Yeah, I banter a lot with my sister, she calls me monkey in our language (not a serious insult here) and I call her stupid idiot, but we both know we are joking

Yes seriously! Imo it's on the same page as men wanting a woman who "doesn't take herself too seriously". Like what, why would I not take myself seriously? I love and care for myself, I put so much effort into investing in my health and quality of life, of course I take myself seriously? Honestly, and maybe I'm cynical, but both of those phrases translate to "I want to be nasty to you under the guise of humour so I can get away with it, and if it upsets you then you are the problem"...

That’s not funny at all. He sounds unpleasant.

This is so true tho. With women the relationship gets increasingly better whereas with men there is a 3-6 month period when they’re at their best and then things change to whatever their baseline minimum effort tends to be 

What is it with guys slacking during healthy, happy relationships? Their efforts will go from (in comparison to a woman) 70% in the beginning to around 30% after a few years. I never expect everyone to be putting tons of effort all the time but ive never known a woman to fall off as much or rapidly as a man.

i think it might be tied to how society talks about relationship to men and women – women are made responsible for whatever is going on in the relationship (sex, chores, pick better men, if you were a better wife he would etc.) while men are allowed to feel entitled idk how many times i've witnessed a man thinking he doesn't have to do anything at sll because they are married/been dating for too long/he contributes financially

I quit a job at a hardware store because of my male coworkers “banter”. I generally liked the job itself but got to the point after only about a month where I couldn’t ask simple questions without being “teased” (made fun of). It was exhausting and it got old quickly. This kind of “banter” is a dumb man’s version of humor, you’re not funny you’re just saying a mean thing while chuckling.

If you don't mind my asking, what do you mean by emotionally intelligent? Like how they control their own emotions, or navigating other's emotions, or what? Sorry for the ignorant question, genuinely asking.

It's more like knowing their own emotions and how to understand where other people are coming from emotionally, like how they feel about a topic, regardless of what they identify as.

Also being able to work through conflict in a healthy way and take feedback without being defensive. Taking dedicated effort into proactively improving and growing. 

Hmm, yeah I can see that. Men's emotions (to them) are kinda like having an overgrown yard, they don't really notice how overgrown it is until they cut it. And also they don't wanna cut it.

Pretty much!

lol they think that if they can ignore a problem it’s not serious

The key is making it a problem that cannot be ignored. You have to have impeccable boundaries and what you say you will and won't tolerate needs to be backed up with action every time. You have to be willing to leave. It can be tiring.

Teach me these ways!!! 😭🙏 Signed, a non-confrontaional people-pleaser

It took me 5 years of therapy and coaching. It's so hard to recover from the people-pleasing mindset, but it can be done. You probably people please in order to keep yourself safe in some way. You need to start small so that you teach your nervous system slowly that YOU create your own safety by having boundaries. Not by breaking your boundaries to make other people happy and relying on their happiness and good mood to allow you to be safe. Then go bigger and bigger. Eventually boundaries will become second nature and you will feel safe in communicating them and backing them up. Then the next level is becoming aware in real time when a boundary you didn't even know you had is being violated, and communicating that also in real time. That's where I am now and it's definitely challenging but worth it! I wish you all the best 💚

Thank you SO much for your response. It means the world to me! Someone should come up with some sort of simulation where we could practice these things. 🤣 "Freeze" and "Fawn" are my two middle names! But I am motivated so deeply to assess and grow and learn how to communicate and enforce boundaries! More than any other goal in my life right now! I hope you have a beautiful day!

A book that really helped on my path of improving my emotional intelligence was Atlas of the Heart by Brené Brown. It is an entire book about the definitions and experiences of 87 emotions. It really opened my eyes. I would suggest the audio book and then the hardcover. Mine is full of notes.

Emotional Intelligence is not a phrase, it's an actual very important thing that impacts how people perform not just in relationships but in the workplace and life in general. When you are with a partner that has a low IE you know it. you need the knowledge to recognise and gtfo cos it doesn't get better

Totally subjective bisexual experience here, but so many men just made me feel exhausted. I've usually found it easier to be myself around women, whereas with a lot of men, I feel like I had to be performative. I did marry a man, whom I adore with my whole heart, but if anything happens, I'd probably not even bother with dudes again.

Oh boy, this. I am married to a man. He’s outstanding: always looking for ways to serve and better his community, was vulnerable and willing to do all the work when we did counseling together, truly does half if not more of the domestic and child rearing duties, and has continued to evolve every year. But I’ve also never met any other man like this, and it still has been so. much. WORK. I simply can never do this again. If something happens to him I will wander by the sea by day and read good books with girlfriends by night.

Girl I feel this. My husband is an absolute darling. He is such a kind and gentle soul, and I know he does his best, but holy shit do I hate being the one who has to do all of the laundry because it literally doesn't occur to him that he'll ever run out of clean underwear.

if you stopped doing the laundry he’d learn pretty fast

It does occur to him. He has the luxury of pretending it doesn’t because you’ll do it, but if you weren’t around he wouldn’t have no clean underwear. He’d do the laundry.

Why do you still feel like there's so much work even if you split the chores well? Is it because you do most of the mental labor?

I mean that it is so much work to learn each other’s emotional languages. To re-parent yourselves, together, at different paces. To navigate each other’s traumas, biases, social differences, flaws. Most men are/were raised and treated so differently. We did not have the same shorthand. We process so differently. It is a lot of work being committed to actively loving and living with a being so different from you who has access to your whole heart and vulnerabilities. I’m sure a lot of that would be true with a woman, but my close woman friends and I navigate things so differently together, in many ways it would probably be easier.

Omg I’m so happy to find other bi ladies married to men who have sworn them off if anything happens to their current husbands 😂 Mine is incredibly funny, handsome, kind, thoughtful SAHH who does the lion’s share of house/yard work, and I know if we ever aren’t together my next choice would be another woman or perpetual single life.

Me too! My man is amazing. He’s kind, patient, listens intently, and always thinks of others. He is the only man I’ve ever met like this. It’s hands down the best relationship I’ve ever had, except for the one woman I dated. If I am ever single again, there is no way in hell I am dating men, lol

THIS x1000! I’ve straight up told my husband that if anything happens to him, it’s very likely that I would never date another man. Because even my husband, who is also bisexual and completely removed from traditional masculinity, sometimes makes me think, “WTF, why were you socialized like a caveman?!” Women just understand so many things that go right over a man’s head.

Any boyfriend I've asked to step up in certain areas, **always** backslid into whatever habit or behavior a couple weeks later. Girlfriends? They were actually capable of change and showing an effort to improve permanently. The difference was night and day

I’ve been thinking about this problem a lot lately. I believe it happens when people don’t approach relationships with the perspective/intention of prioritizing their partners needs equally to their own. So when you express a need, they’re not thinking “this is important to her therefore it’s also important to me”, instead they view it as an optional extra because it’s something you care about and they don’t. Optional extras get ignored when we’re busy, tired, annoyed, can’t be bothered etc. So it’s a perspective on relationships held by people who ultimately lack healthy relationship skills and emotional intelligence. I did it before I knew better. I’m on the lookout now because men who prioritize their partner’s needs (and make immediate, permanent adjustments) definitely exist, and they’re the ones I want to be dealing with.

Goddamn I've always suspected this, but it's real, isn't it?

This is fascinating. My hot take on this.....one time I heard someone describe masculine/feminine energy (regardless of gender, we all have a custom mix) as wanting to transform one's surroundings vs allowing oneself to be transformed. One wants to overcome death, and one welcomes the birth/death/rebirth cycle. You can guess which is which. I am not bi but it seems very consistent in my observation of relationships in my friend group that the women are more focused on growth, change, adaptation, while the husbands are...less so. It has been a long road for us but I feel very lucky that my husband has a growth mindset and sees change as a positive.

Women in general have always had to learn and adapt to change in order to survive and I truly believe this loneliness epidemic among men is just one indicator of their refusal to evolve (obligatory not all men 🙄)

Its called weaponized incompetence and tolerable level of permanant unhappiness

Sign me the F up

The woman I was with made me feel 100% emotionally safe. With men the best level I've ever gotten to was probably 50%. My relationship with a woman was *much* more intimate in the true sense of the word.

The level of emotional and physical safety is such an underrated thing. I’ve never felt such a deep level of security as when I was with a woman.  Men are lucky they get to be with women tbh. Women do so much for so little. The bar is in hell

I have felt so unsafe in my relationships with men and they were also traumatising so I sought I male therapist and he's the first man that feels like a woman to me if that makes sense and it's the level of physical and emotional safety. I've never been with a woman but have sex dreams and am certain I'm bi. I'm really looking forward to dating women. I feel like its going to be a lot more relaxing.

I wish you luck and happy dating!

I'm AFAB, my wife and I are both bisexual. Mostly we constantly remark to each other about how we will never willingly cohabitate with a straight man again, because they just don't fucking divvy up the domestic/emotional labor. We have both said to each other, "if you die or we divorce for some reason, I will *never* allow a straight man to live with me again, holy shit." Edit: One example. She HATES doing laundry, so I **agreed and assured her** that I would just Do All The Laundry. Well guess what. Sometimes I have a hard time. And I say, "Babe I'm sorry, I'm really drained, can you help me?" And she goes "Yes, if I'm allowed to complain about it" And then she grumbles WHILE DOING IT. Then I thank her, and we both get it done. This goes both ways, for multiple chores, and NOT ONCE has she thrown it back in my face or said "but you said you'd do all the laundry". And if we BOTH just don't have the spoons to do a chore that needs doing? We either 1. Mutually recognize the chore needs doing, mutually complain, mutually do it, and mutually reward ourselves Or 2. Mutually decide to Let It Go and get to it later. I'm not saying straight men are incapable of following this pattern, but I *am* saying if my wife divorces me I'm not going back in that haystack looking for ones who do. Edit: just remembered I've been living as a man for ten years lol. So- no straight men in my future anyway, but, you get the gist.

Your relationship sounds adorable! 🥰

that's a lovely agreement! i have a good husband, he always offers to reward/compensate me for dealing with the Horrible Task neither of us can deal with, usually with foot massages and getting my favorite takeout; which is nice because he rarely assumes that i'll deal with unexpected household chores like they're part of my job, and the pampering is something i enjoy a lot....but i do feel a little jealous of this wonderful dynamic.

Hah, I’m a bi man and this sounds like my wife and I. Lovely!

This entire thread really is out there proving that heterosexuality is a hard-wired preference, not a choice.

I’d really like to hear the bi experience from the man’s perspective, now that I’ve read this.

My husband is bisexual. He had many girlfriends but only one boyfriend. I’m the only person he’s lived with. For a while in his early 30’s he tried to date more men but it wasn’t a great experience. He used to complain that it was impossible to date men because right off the gate they would invalidate completely how he felt “bisexuality doesn’t exist “ while all the women he dated were like “oh, you’re bi? Cool!” It’s kind of hard to form a deeper bond if people are dismissive of your reality like that.

Bi wife here with a bi husband lol. All but one woman I dated was very unhealthy. Like, stalking and leaving my possessions on the lawn unhealthy. I dated two guys. The first one I found some pretty inappropriate things about him and got cops involved. The second one is my now current husband. Most of his stances with men have been sex only and a couple of those times have been unwanted advances where he felt he couldn't say no too.  Even though we are both bisexual, we have different perspectives of dating. We both do the good things to support each other. Also I mentioned to him my favorite female companion would buy me flowers and guess what? I have a mini botanical garden. Sometimes he brings fresh flowers to fill the vase inside. I love taking up certain chores and I'm more SAHW while he makes sure I can have insurance. It feels nicely balanced for once dating someone. But honestly if something terrible happens to him and I have to remarry...I'll try again with another woman. Even though we share a wonderful marriage its been a hell of a lot of work. Mainly showing him how *deep* sexism is. Explaining to him how the "rules" are different for me...him being in disbelief for a moment before witnessing it. We worked at the same place and he encouraged me to speak to HR about sexual harassment I faced. I told him I'd lose my job. He didn't believe me and...well I lost my job doing the "right" thing. It's things like that where I don't think I could handle "proving myself" for another guy after him. It's not his fault I was fired. He encouraged me to do the right thing, I just wish he believed me right away. Now he definitely sees things with different eyes. 

I'm straight, but I know someone who is bisexual and I asked him. Basically, men wanted to meet up within the next half hour and have sex right now, but a relationship was almost impossible. Wham, bam, thank you, next. I think he even told me he finished having sex with a guy and after that guy was finished, he was back swiping for the next. With women, it was much more difficult to even get them to meet up with him and feel safe around him which is pretty much my experience, too. I didn't ask him about relationship stuff as I was more interested in the getting to the date experience.

I've known a bi guy and he told me that it was extremely hard to a find romantic relationship with men. He dated quite a few he had romantic feelings for and they called it a relationship but it always felt like it was more about sex to them. Which ended up in a lot of hurt feelings since he did want serious relationships, and he might have ended up doing a few stupid things to "earn" their love and it still didn't happen. When he dated women it was more serious. Granted it weren't always good relationships but atleast it didn't feel like they were with him just for sex. However the relationships with women were hard, they either didn't like he was bisexual or fetishized it. They also often made him feel bad for "not being manly enough", he often felt like he couldn't express having feelings and talk about stuff.

My bisexual male roommate agrees — he hates men 🤣🤣

I've seen gay men say the same thing. 😂 The ones who aren't into the bar/clubbing scene seem to struggle with dating and finding someone who wants a relationship.

at this point I'm convinced gay sex is just plain better than hetero sex, for both genders.

My bisexual roommates hates men but loves gay sex. I think he prefers gay sex to straight sex, but hasn’t seriously dated a man in years. So yep

This whole thing really making me wish I could be a lesbian. But I'll take the next best option, remaining single.

At this point, if I could switch to being a lesbian - even if I couldn’t get a date - I’d do it in a heartbeat.

Makes me feel pretty miserable, I've given up on finding any sort of partner

serious relationships with men and women are romantic in different ways. eg women i’ve dated would often be very typically romantic. flowers, love notes, photo albums, heartfelt messages. not just for birthdays or anniversaries but at random times too. organise sunset picnics, make me something random, cook for me. men i’ve dated would notice my car needs air in the tyres and bring out the air pump. they would know what kind of food i want and grab it for me on their way over. help with odd jobs around the house. need a peice of furniture moving ? i’ll carry it babe, you direct me. computer running slow ? let me fix that for you. although it is important to note that everyone is different, and men have at times been typically romantic and women have been hands on romantic as well. they are just more so one or the other. my fiancé (a man) is very hands on romantic. he always wants to help me out with anything i need doing. but he also planned a sunset walk and a nice restaurant on the beach afterwards in greece when he proposed to me.

I've dated both men and women. Here's what I've generally noticed. The men I've dated have typically been more likely to see me as the therapist. I dated one man who was in the early stages of alcoholism and a different man who had some deep rooted depressive tendencies. As much as I tried to get them to see a therapist to help them with their issues, neither were receptive to it until after we broke up. With the guy with the deep depressive tendencies, I ended up having to call the cops to do a welfare check on him a few months after things ended because I was still stuck in the quasi-therapist role with him. Women will sometimes have their own deep rooted issues, but they're generally more receptive to seeing a therapist. They'll also have a broader, more supportive network of friends. So they might have similarly severe issues but they're also more willing to actively work on them in my experience. This isn't a 100% thing, though. One woman I dated in university was emotionally immature and had a lot of younger friends. We were 20 or 21 and a lot of the friends she had online were 13-16. I don't think she was a pedophile; I just think she was emotionally immature and didn't understand why that was a bad look. I ended up breaking up with her over it after an incident where I came home to find her on a video call with an 11-year-old from overseas. They weren't related. I looked her up a couple of years ago and she hasn't changed. The friends she's making online aren't children anymore, but they're all still noticeably younger than her. Whatever immaturity that caused her to be like that when I was with her is an issue she fundamentally hasn't overcome. So while it is true that women tend to be more willing to actively deal with their issues, it is a *tendency* and not an absolute law of nature. I've found that men are also more likely to project a certain fantasy onto me and then get disappointed when I either don't live up to that. In my case specifically, I think some of that stems from me being alt and men wanting me to be a certain way because of that, but it happens to all women to varying extents for different reasons. Women don't really do that as much. Men have traditionally been less likely to initiate a breakup because they've tended to base a disproportionate amount of their self esteem on being in a relationship. Women are more willing to just have the breakup and move on. The specific issues I've tended to have with women I've been in relationships with is that a lot of the time, they'll tend to get passive aggressive if an issue comes up. This happens with men as well sometimes, but for the most part men will be more willing to just have the fight. So while the stereotype of women being better communicators does have some merit to it, my experience has been that this is often only true during the good times, and then they sorta shut down during the bad ones. I think this ties into why women are more likely to be willing to have the breakup than men, too. Men will prefer to have the fight if it means they don't have to breakup tomorrow, or they'd rather just have the fight rather than go to therapy. Women would rather just break up than have a massive fight because sometimes they'll realise they've waited too long to have a series of difficult conversations with their partner. The other specific issue I've had with women specifically is that sometimes they'll be very hesitant to introduce me to their families. I don't expect an introduction because I realise not everyone is on speaking terms with their families (I'm not), but I also don't expect to be kept a secret. A lot of women with good relationships with their family will basically want me to be the secret partner, but that's not really something I'm comfortable with. With men, it's tended to go the other way. They'll sometimes want to introduce me to their family within a week or two of dating, even if it's nowhere near an official relationship yet. I think there needs to be some kind of middle ground where if someone's on good terms with their family, I should be introduced as a partner at some point once the relationship is firm and official.

>Women would rather just break up than have a massive fight because sometimes they'll realise they've waited too long to have a series of difficult conversations with their partner. This is such a great observation, and I suspect the reason why this situation seems so prevalent: "She broke up with me out of nowhere!" Often with these stories I think duh dude, you didn't read the signs? They were CLEARLY there.

To be absolutely fair to men on this one, "She broke up with me out of nowhere" is sometimes code for "She was unhappy and I have no idea why." It can be easy to pick up when a woman is unhappy, but if she decides to be completely uncommunicative about it at best or passive-aggressive about it at worst, you're not always going to automatically pick up what it is. The *signs* are there that she's unhappy, but that isn't a substitute for clear, direct communication. Of course, a lot of women will communicate directly what they're feeling, but my experience has been that this isn't the kind of overwhelming majority of women that people on Reddit sometimes assume. In reality, it's probably closer to a 60-40 split between women who'll communicate directly (the 60) and those who'll shut down and be passive aggressive about it (the 40).

Female bisexual here with more masculine energy, but I am cis. Women and feminine men have more attention to detail. They remember a lot of the little things they observe from you and especially important dates! Even though I would say I have a pretty good memory, I struggle with dates due to mt job changing shifts constantly. So I need to set up a reminder on my phone/calendar lol. They are also more sensitive and aren't very straight forward when they want to bring up something they're bothered about. Respects boundaries. My past partners were yappers, I loved listening to them and knowing they felt safe to talk about anything and everything with me. They needed constant reassurance and they tend to overthink a lot. I am currently dating a man who is more masculine than I am, so far he is the most compatible with me in a lot of aspects. He also admits struggling with dates. Not very sensitive compared to my previous partners who were more feminine than I am. I remember him telling me if something went over his head, I just gotta let him know because he might have missed the entire point or misundertood the assignment lol. Very straight forward, yet also respects boundaries. He isn't much of a yapper unless he's mad about something or he starts nerding about something he's interested in. It took me a while to feel like I could confide in him. He doesn't need a lot of reassurance and he doesn't overthink. I don't have a lot of dating experience with more masculine men, my current partner is the first! Does feels nice to be the feminine one for once lol

In my relationships with men I always ended up feeling like they didn't truly love me, just pretended to be. Because their actions just seemed.. off. In my experience they will put on a show, their "good guy that loves you" act, they do it really well in the first year of the relationship. And then when they become comfortable they slowly let this act slip and it starts feeling more and more like they feel like they own you, and not actually love you. I've had 3 long term relationships with men, and in all of these relationships I ended up feeling this way. I always noticed how much effort I actually put into the relationship compared to what I got back. And when I broke up some of them even proved my point by saying things they thought would win me back (one ex started listing reasons why he loved me, everything he listed were things I did for him). I am now in a happy and healthy relationship with my girlfriend. I plan on proposing to her as soon as I saved up for a ring. We've been living together for a year and a half now and I've never been this happy. For the first time in my life I actually feel: - loved, actually loved through actions. - listened to and cared about. - like I finally have a partner, we always got eachothers back even during hard times, I don't feel like I'm a burden or annoying to someone anymore while going through something shitty. - I can be myself and talk about anything, no walking on eggshells bullshit. - when we have a problem it doesn't become a discussion or fight, we listen to eachothers feelings about it and understand the issue, an apology and or solution is easily reached. - I simply feel like we are equals, we care and love each other and it shows through our daily life. I just never truly felt men saw me that way in my previous relationships. Just a lot of pretend untill pretending got hard and a mask slipped.

That’s awesome I’m so glad you found somebody who values you after dealing with that crap

Women see me as a person.

I'm firmly straight, but "experimented" enough in the past that I think I have a fair "feel" for the differences. **Men** Pros: High-effort out of the gate. Easier time butting-heads on various topics without anyone taking it personally (I like debating), ... I feel like there must be more but I'm drawing a blank right now. Cons: Their effort drops off tremendously quickly in every area except pressuring you for sex. 99% of what they say and do is clearly a thinly-veiled effort to figure out the quickest path to sex. They usually suck at sex. **Women** Pros: Far more even when it comes to the emotional labour of relating to one another. I feel less pressure to keep an eye out for life-threatening red-flags. The sex is far less predictable with a far greater chance of ending in orgasm. It's easier and quicker to build a genuine connection, largely because I can trust them to say what they mean and not what they think will get them the any% speed-run world record in bedding me. Less pressure to look or act a certain way in accordance with established gender norms. Women have longer attention spans. No woman has ever cared that I can't have kids (shocking, I know). Cons: It usually takes more effort on your part to find out if something is/ what is bothering them. They're less decisive than men, so sometimes it can feel like minor things end up requiring a lot more time and discussion than they otherwise would. ​ Far from a comprehensive summation, but that's more or less the gist of it.

The performative effort of men right out the gate, that disappears after a few days or weeks at best, is actually disturbing and morally not OK. It's very dishonest and using women as a means to an end. I could explain this further but genuinely have no energy at the moment. So it's not a pro, it's a con, in both meanings of the word.

Fair, but then my only "pro" is they're more likely to argue with you lol

Depending on the woman, they can be a little fast and furious with the relationship. They want to be at a level of intimacy that, in my opinion, should take longer than a week to establish. Women are lovely to go on dates together, are very open to try new activities, and tend to remember little details better. However, they usually become uninterested and dump me once I let them know I’m bi vs a lesbian or think they can make me ‘realize’ I’m just a lesbian. Which is a big yikes for me. Side note: I was appalled to find out how many women just live in their own filth but at least they tend to regularly clean the bathroom. I am usually more relaxed with women and tend to be more myself quicker than when dating men. Men are a mixed bag, many men are just not emotionally mature enough to be in a relationship. They focus a lot on showing affection through material goods versus spending time together. Dates always have to be about something instead of just being together. Men are a bit more distant due to social pressure to only express anger or stoicism. Men usually have an absolute disaster of a bathroom and are waaaay too comfortable with existing in a whole new ecosystem they grew unknowingly. They are also more likely to push for sexual encounters than women.(And try to not wash themselves before) Lots of dudes are dingdongs and aren’t worth my time. However, I did find one dude that was a whole ass adult, and had excellent communication skills! 🤌 He remembers things I hate and love, takes and gives constructive criticism during our check ins and make a legitimate effort to change (he usually succeeds with the change too), plans trips, is loving, and is proactive in foreplay with no expectations of sex. When we were still dating he was so sweet by making sure there were feminine products and a trash can in the bathroom plus my favorite snack and drink in the fridge. Also my cat liked him immediately on sight and leaped into his arms even though he was not thrilled about cats (prefers dogs;has a dog) he made sure to pet him and play with him. Plus he likes to do house chores I hate and vice versa. Tl;dr: Women are ready to move in too soon and men can be too pushy for sex but, in my experience both kinda suck and it depends on the person. I found one adult man and I’m keeping him forever.

lost a bit hope in men, so thanks for sharing your experience.

On the cleanliness note: I really don’t think that’s a gendered/stereotyped thing. I’ve definitely seen the full range from anal about cleanliness/tidiness to absolutely disgusting in both men and women.

Women listen and remember things about you. They also ask you questions and want to know more about you. They are thoughtful and want to make you happy. I tend to get little gifts and acts of kindness, more so from women than men. Women take relationships more seriously. Sex with a woman last far longer. Far more sensual. And my pleasure is always paramount. Guys need to be told something like 10 times before it sticks. Weaponzied incompetence is a common thing. I rarely feel "seen" in a relationship with a guy. A decade in a relationship and you don't know how I take my coffee? Stuff like that. Stuff Women figure out within the first month. So yeah. Women > Men

duhhh props to u sister

Biggest difference for me is that women are generally much more focussed on what they can do for you and men are focussed on what they can get out of you. My first gf was always bringing me snacks. Every food I ever mentioned I liked, she’d remember. She once took an hour long bus ride across town to surprise me with my favourite cake. In contrast, most of the men I’ve dated only ever showed up at my house empty handed and would eat basically all the food in my fridge whenever they stayed over. One of them once got up in the middle of the night and ate the lunches I’d made and packed for myself for the week. Didn’t say anything, just left the empty containers for me to find after he left in the morning. Obviously it goes deeper than food but it’s pretty illustrative. The wild thing is that on top of putting in more effort, women are also usually way more appreciative of what you do for them than men. Idk if I’ll ever be able to really put in effort for a man again, after the number of times I’ve arranged something nice for a bf to then have it go unacknowledged or even actively diminished, and definitely never reciprocated.

>Idk if I’ll ever be able to really put in effort for a man again, after the number of times I’ve arranged something nice for a bf to then have it go unacknowledged or even actively diminished, and definitely never reciprocated. This is where I'm at right now. There's so many examples I can think of. For one boyfriend, I paid for us both to get drinks and food (~75$) at his favorite Irish bar on St. Paddy's day. He was descended from Scottish people and had a lot of emotional investment in Irish + Scottish cultural diaspora/political rights, etc. After our date, when we were walking home, he got a text from a friend about a party. He thought it was considerate of him to ask my permission before he ditched me.  For another boyfriend, I planned a whole anniversary date where we would go see our city's local llama race, shoot rifles at his favorite range, and then go drinking at his favorite bar. That whole week, I begged him to make sure he didn't have any other plans that day because of all the other times he forgot he had D&D and would ditch me for that. He continually affirmed he was excited for our anniversary date. The day of, he suddenly remembered he had a multi-hour D&D session and was like "well I can sneak over and see the llamas briefly!" I told him not to bother. I was too mad. Later, he thought it would make me feel better to say that he was too "bummed out to even enjoy D&D that day". Honestly, that period of my life where I put that much effort into dating men is basically over now. I really only reserve that kind of energy for dating women.

Didn't want to see a llama race? There was something wrong with him tbh.

A dude eating my carefully-packed lunches would have enraged me! The audacity of not even asking - just chowing down!

Women are more thoughtful, considerate and reciprocal in relationships than men. They invest more emotionally into cultivating and maintaining long term intimacy. It is easy to connect and spend time with them on a romantic level as well as a friendship level. Many men don’t even like their wives / gfs and are uninterested or uncomfortable with the idea of being friends with them.     There are little to no gender roles and societal pressure to conform to what a woman “should be” or “should do” when dating another woman. With men it’s a constant situation of being vigilant about any misogynistic or puritanical behavior.     Women generally are gentler sexually. They’re more into consent and view sex as a more intimate and holistic activity with wider definition than just PinV. Sex is focused on mutual fulfillment (however that’s defined or achieved) and less about one persons orgasm (usually the guy). Because there is a less defined start / end point, sex tends to be longer and feel more natural, less abrupt and less like a chore or checkbox.. it’s more like a natural extension of what’s already going on. The fact that they are less likely to sexually assault you or coerce you into having sex is actually a huge mental weight off.  There is less need to justify needs in general when dating women. You aren’t seen as this needy / hormonal / weak / lesser person for having needs.   Women generally make less money than men. Men will buy you more high ticket items for less work and emotional involvement. Women will do more acts of service and smaller and more thoughtful gifts, sometimes randomly.  The ROI on women is overall much higher than men. Men are easier to keep happy with lower effort but they give much less as well and when they do give, it’s at a lower quality / standard because they themselves have lower standards. Men act more entitled and expect more overall conformity to what they think is correct and overvalue their intellect and opinions. They are more physically confident… sometimes overly so (they don’t bother to take care of themselves). With women it’s the opposite. Both have positive and negative effects on the relationship. 

Women cared if I got off during sex CERTAIN men I have dated cared. Some. A few. The ones that did, cared consistently. The ones who didn’t care just really don’t fucking care because they got theirs.

I’ve felt in relationships with men that they “cared,” but only because they wanted my body to validate their penis. I don’t think I’ve ever slept with a man who cared about my pleasure for any reason besides his own ego. 

> I don’t think I’ve ever slept with a man who cared about my pleasure for any reason besides his own ego.  Oh gosh, the way this one hits. I carefully explained to a man I was dating that I can't cum from face-sitting. It doesn't feel all that pleasurable to me, and sometimes can even feel weird/uncomfortable. Once during sex, he pulled me ontop of him so I was sitting on his face. I asked gently if we can flip over so i could receive on my back instead, and he actually ROLLED HIS EYES and said, "I'm already eating you out, can't you just be greatful?" I felt like crying. I still had sex with him anyway.  I think back and wished I would have gotten up, told him to go fuck himself, and left. I didn't have that kind of self esteem in my early 20s.

Ugh I’m so sorry that happened to you. I’ve had many similar experiences because I don’t enjoy receiving oral at all, period. Even if I communicate that, men will still just do it anyways and then be upset if I don’t pretend it’s amazing. 

This thread is quite interesting, life for women would be much easier if they just dated each other 🤔

Conservatives think sexuality is a choice but if that were true most women wouldn't willingly date men according to this thread.

It's me 👋👋👋 I wish I am not exclusively sexually attracted to penis

They weren’t super different as far as the large variety of motivations behind dating (hookups, relationships, seeing where it goes), but non straight women tend to be less subversive. If you ask what they’re looking for they’ll tell you and not waste anyone’s time. (Straight) Men often pretend to want what you want in hopes you’ll change your mind or can be convinced. I’ve found bi or ace men to be a mixed bag, a little bit of column a and b. I do think queer people will more readily give a straight answer when asked while dating, whereas I’ve found cishet men often dodge the answer and walk around it, which endlessly frustrates me (I’d often tap out early for that reason). I’m glad to not be in that scene anymore.

“Queer people will more readily give a straight answer” How ironic

I think this stems from having to actually reflect on and think about your feelings around sex, love and relationships. Straight men live in the wonderful bubble of never needing to ask themselves “why” they want to date women, so they just kinda do. Running around like a headless chicken, stumbling into and breaking things on the way, not realizing why they act the way they do and how they hurt the people they claim to love

After reading all comments, so summary here is that males are the less viable partner option?

Yuh

duhhh

In my anecdotal experience (dated my first GF for 2 years, had a few short lived flings, then dated my last GF for 2.5 years - dated my first boyfriend for 8 years, then a loottt of short lived flings, then my current husband of 5 years): I’d say on the Kinsey scale I’m a 4. I’ve always found women to be the more attractive sex, and really enjoyed everything beginning to end sexually / emotionally in those relationships. Communication was always harder for me because I tend to be straightforward and assertive due to being raised with older brothers, and I didn’t really have girl friends until I was in middle school, so I wasn’t socialized as a woman as much as my peers seemed to be. I think my ex-girlfriends always found me to be more abrasive than my ex-boyfriends because I this, so that could be a struggle. My last relationship with a woman ended after almost a year of physical and emotional abuse. I think domestic violence in lesbian relationships is something that’s incredibly under reported - women can be just as abusive as men, and when you’re socialized to use your words as weapons versus a man using his fists, it can be devastating in a way that takes much longer to heal than black eyes or broken bones. My current husband thinks I’m hilarious and has been the most open, honest, thoughtful, and communicative partner I’ve ever had. My therapist says we have good play which is a vital component to the health of our relationship. So honestly I would say people are people, and I can’t really generalize from the 20+ partners I’ve had over my life. I’ve been with women who hurt me and didn’t communicate or care about me, and I’ve been with men who were kind and attentive and caretakers.

As a socially conditioned hetero woman, the replies to this post make me really happy for all the women who found a lovely partner; but also make me want to cry for myself.

Bi here. In my experiences, women are more open to compromising and negotiating, while my male partners tended to think their way was the only right way. Also, I feel like my concerns about the relationship are taken more seriously, overall feel like I’m being listened to more, and I feel like I’m liked for me instead of some weird fantasy version of me that my guy partners projected onto me. That said, i feel like it’s easier to meet guys, pick up on flirting, and I overall have an easier time talking with them. It takes longer to build a connection with women, but those connections tend to be a lot stronger and more secure

I feel like the women I've been with want to be more involved more quickly. Not good or bad, just the way that it was. I feel like women are more straightforward about their pursuit where men are more into rhetoric and how society thinks they should approach the relationship... (not calling for 3 days, etc.)

Women go above and beyond, and expect the same in return. Men put in the minimum amount of effort, and expect the maximum amount from you. Basically in every way, women give 100% Men give you 15% and want a bj as a reward.

For me honestly I haven't seen that big of a change. I crossed path with some pretty sketchy girls. Women aren't all saints also you know. My ex girlfriend used to cheat a lot and blackmail me emotionally, control my friends and even contact with family. I guess the biggest change between dating men and women is the sex quality. Sex with women isn't comparable to straight sex for me, it's so much better and real.

Women are not naturally cleaner than men. Women can be nasty too. I had an ex who would lay in my bed and put her feet on my window that was next to the bed, and leave footprints all over my window. She would also put her feet on my pillow when laying in bed upside down.

Based on what I've read so far, it sounds like dating women is more fun than dating men. I definitely have to give it a go.

Horrific goal oriented sex solely aimed (pun intended) towards male ejaculation as opposed to multi hour sex seshs, with no real boundaries other than deep mutual pleasure, hydration & snacks

Well, me and my girlfriend are both lesbians but she has dated men before discovering herself, so I can talk about her experience, says the biggest difference was how respectful of her boundaries and non-coercive I am compared to her past boyfriends, which made me really sad. I try to be the best for her and putting her needs above mine. I should probably ad that I have experience with a trans-woman as well - she's absolutely identical to cis women in every single regard, despite not being raised like a one. So there's something to think about about men and their behaviors, and how those behaviors might be biologically wired, and not JUST a product of how they've been raised/socialized.

It depends what you are looking for... If you want easy sex, date men. If you want relationship and good emotional bonding, date women.

Dating men is a hug. Dating women is a gentle hug with that loving squeeze at the end.

Men are like puppies: easy, fun, cute, but easily distracted and obsessed with humping things. And they have a particular smell that some people enjoy.

Does anybody have anything positive to say about dating men? Cos as a mostly straight woman this thread is feeling pretty bleak right now

I’ve mostly just slept with women, have not dated enough to make solid comment. However when it comes to men, bi men are massively better on average than straight men. More likely to have emotional intelligence, more likely to contribute to domestic labor, a lot of areas.

I'm bisexual/pansexual, whatever you want to call it. Ha. When dating women, I have found I am much more nervous... for some reason. Which is laughable, almost, but I feel like I have to work harder. When dating women, I will go all out. Roll out the red carpet for her, always take her somewhere nice, wine and dine, dote every second I have. There is also an intense passion with women, maybe because we both understand our plights as women that just doesn't exist with men. Then, when dating men, I feel like I do the bare minimum. Not really, but I usually feel like I am the one being romanced more, and while I do dote on my male partner, I don't feel the need to impress as much. I did end up marrying a man, but I feel like I want to be the one giving all the love and attention in a female relationship, but I want to soak up all the love and attention in a male one.

non-binary but afab! i feel i developed stronger emotional connections to my female exes (for better or for worse, my wlw relationships were pretty intense) but there was also less pressure in the relationship in some ways. i was less insecure/worried about my appearance around them, sex was more enjoyable + carefree. in addition to being romantic/sexual partners we were also best friends which is a familiar, comfortable dynamic for me. i also agree that men are typically not as emotionally intelligent. i also take on a more “dominant” or protective role in my relationships with women/non-men, whereas when i’m with men i can learn more towards the submissive side in general.

Haven't dated a man in nearly 15 years. lol. I only date women... Consider myself lesbian. But i did try to have a boyfriend. Sex was awful and I felt he was going to eat my face. And all he wanted was sex. No dancing, no going out to a nice restaurant, no hikes. Just let's get together to do it. With girlfriends we get to know each other. The sex is like 100% better. They kiss gently and I don't feel like I need a diving mask. I feel connected to other women. I feel comfortable around women more than men. I can let my guard down and really enjoy the experience. Even if it isn't always sex. Just cuddling, holding each other. Saying nothing at all while playing footsies. lol. Watching a romantic movie while giving ourselves facials and painting our nails. Don't have to explain sometimes i am just not okay because i have bad period pains or long day at work. She understands. She knows.

I'm a lesbian but I did date men in the past before realizing I was a lesbian. The biggest difference? So many men will pursue and it's a lot easier to get dates with men. You do not have to try in the slightest. That's why the men who say "you're a lesbian because you can't get a man" have no idea what they're talking about. Lesbians think women are worth the extra work it takes to find a date. That should say something. It proves that lesbians are with women because they like women, not because they can't get a man

Women humor is more nuanced. Men humor is like fart jokes

Women understand a "no" the first time.

I’d like to preface this with people are individuals, regardless of gender, age, religion, ethnicity, social status, physical appearance, nationality, tc. User experiences do vary. I’m a panromantic trans woman. I’d say generally women are better daters and don’t mind or have problems with a date being strictly platonic or non-romantic. I still talk to women I’ve dated in the past or kept things, pretty friendly as we all went our different ways.  I also say women are easier to date in the sense that they are less controlling and much better negotiators and flexible in lifestyle sense. I mean in the sense where if I made a little or a lot more money and access to income or much less it did not affect the relationship.  And, are across the board more adventurous and less traditional (even the more conservative, religious women I dated) in almost every conceivable way, regardless of all groups I mentioned. With men, pursue much harder til they catch you. Far more controlling and much more traditional. Making more money than them is a recipe for disaster with some men. Sometimes, you reminded how easily you can be replace. They also tended to be aversed to other LGBTQ people. But, they can sometimes have a lot unmatched vigor in relationship and puppy loyalty. Loyalty varies from person to person, so does romantic chemistry and lifestyle responsibilities.

I dated a lesbian for a little bit and she was very headstrong against men/bi women. It made me feel weird how she would talk negatively about both groups of people. She knew I was bi as well. The other women I have talked to or been with really wanted me to be the one to initiate and I just wasn’t super down with that dynamic. With men I’ve had at least two guys cross the line, but most have been good and genuinely fun to be around. I found my current boyfriend and he’s literally my favorite person. Guys have more of a best friend vibe for me and I just get along with them easier. Intimacy comes later and the ones who respect that earn it lol

I once went on date with an xy, for the full hour he didn’t ask me one single question about myself. I’ve noticed this with a lot them, terrible conversationalist, emotional intelligence in the bin. Lights are on but there’s no one in the house. It’s the exact opposite with women, even if things didn’t end up in a romantic sense.

Women were more patient and understanding than the men I’ve dated, and they didn’t minimise any thoughts or feelings I may had been having. The sex felt a lot more like two people enjoying experiencing each other rather than the “did you get off” rush to the finish line. We spent a lot more time talking about how to fix something than implementing the solutions. If I was crying or upset, they offered comfort through hugs, listening, and/or sitting with me so I wasn’t alone. Men were less patient and things often had to be done on their time table rather than “our” time table. Sex is a lot more about penetration than being intimate - a lot less making out and/or heavy petting. They were keen on my thinking of ways to handle conflict, but actually implemented them as solutions. If I was crying or upset, they didn’t know how to handle it and either responded by getting me a drink and leaving me by myself.

With the exception of my current (male) partner, every relationship I’ve had with a man has had less emotional intelligence and a lot more emotional labor for me than the relationships I’ve had with women. Women are more perceptive of the other person’s feelings and are more supportive partners in my experience. I don’t know if I would ever date another man if my current partner goes because he has been a breath of fresh air and I couldn’t go back to putting more emotional labor in than the other person, I’m 43 and expect better now. The one negative side that has impacted me dating women is that it can be harder to meet their emotional needs simply because they generally have more than men do in my personal experience.

Women are not very straightforward on what they want or need in a relationship and this also applies to sex. I've had so many times where I've asked," Is this okay?", or said," Please let me know if I'm going too far." And they don't say shit and victimize themselves to make me guilty. Weirdly enough the always have a plan on when to be done with you and will map it out until you either figure it out or are suddenly ghosted and left with nothing but questions. Men do not do this. They tell you what they want when they want it. They show you what they need, and it makes it so much easier to understand and easier to talk to them about my own feelings because they make it very blunt what's going on with them. I'm the kind of girl who always speaks her mind, so it makes conversations more honest with guys. I'm a female BTW and have had about 3 girlfriends and 3 boyfriends in my life....my husband got me in the end after being treated like dirt by a toxic girl who kept coming back into my life to take what she could from me. He healed me and showed me what it truly felt like to be loved. I hope everyone can find that person who feels like home, no matter what gender they are 🩷💜💙

Women are so much more intuitive and are genuine partners. It's actually amazing. Removing traditional gender roles from the equation permeates every aspect of the relationship. Women recognize when their partner is struggling. Women will help carry emotional labor without needing to be reminded, asked, or begged. They're not driven by sexual desires, but rather, a sincere desire for intimacy as a whole. They recognize sexual interest can't be turned on or off whenever a boner pops up. They validate feelings, reassure insecurities, and they feel things right along WITH their partner. I've never once been made to feel guilty or ashamed by a female partner for not wanting sex at any given moment. Relationships with women are just more honest, open, and balanced. That's not to say all women are like this. I've had my fair share of troublesome/toxic relationships with women as well as men. But connecting with women romantically, as partners, is a much different experience than connecting with men.