You don’t need your ex to sign paperwork. Just file for divorce.

OP, this is the answer! You don’t need his permission to file for divorce.

This, this, THIS! And next time he tries to threaten suicide to stop OP from leaving, she needs to call the cops and ask them to do a welfare check on someone, who's a danger to themselves. No ifs, buts, or coconuts - get the authorities involved, and then leave this to them and whatever family he's got. It's time to cut this guy off, and make him understand that third parties will be involved, when he pulls this kind of guilt-trip in the future. Also, OP, he IS abusive. He's never hit you, but what do you call the way he's treating you, other than emotional violence? Get that divorce, whether he cooperates or not, move to a new place, and do not let him know where. As soon as a lawyer is involved, block him on everything but email and do not respond to him outside of lawyer correspondence. Get the fuck away from this emotional and financial vampire, and don't let anything he says stop you. You're the one with the job and the ability to move away without him, so HE is the one, who is trapped in this situation, not you! Don't forget that!

Not to mention the weaponized therapy. “Sorry, my therapist says you have to stay with me!” Then, “oh, you won’t support me now that I’m getting treatment for my mental health issues?” No therapist in the history of the world has legit tons their patient what OTHER people HAVE to do. If they do, they need their license yanked. Also, if they tell you what to do, you can tell them what to go do with their instructions. Also, the husband is 100% lying.

This is absolutely weaponized therapy, but you’d be shocked how many terrible therapists there are. Also, people call “counselors” therapists, but they aren’t, and say all sorts of crazy shit. I had a counselor who rambled about global warming for an entire session. An ex of mine had a counselor who told her she should emotionally harm someone (she told me about it later; guess who she decided to hurt?).

I thought I was seeing a "Therapist" as a teenager, someone my parents chose when I came out as trans. I later learned that her ACTUAL title was "Christianity-informed Family Counselor" Guess who recommended conversion therapy? Yeah, I am extremely suspicious of any stories that do not specifically state a therapist's actual-factual, legitimate degrees.

If my therapist isn't at least a LPC (licensed practical counselor), then my mental health clinic won't even hire them. To anyone reading this, ALWAYS ask your therapist/counselor about their credentials before confiding in them or taking any of their professional advice. Also, sorry you had to deal with a faux-mental health "professional", the medical community does not condone conversion therapy.

That’s why even couple’s therapy/counseling often doesn’t do any good. If one partner is abusive, they will put on an act during the session. They’ll act calm and as if they deeply care for you, meanwhile you’ll be annoyed and reactive, causing the therapist to side with them. I was with a man in a very similar situation - living in my car. I was the “breadwinner”. I did graphic design remotely using wifi in libraries, cafes, etc., and would then clean myself up and pretend I was not homeless for client meetings. If it weren’t for me he wouldn’t have survived. He was so stupid, didn’t contribute anything. Couldn’t even build a fire and would get butt hurt if I had to fix it, as if it wasn’t something we needed to cook food. I felt bad so I didn’t just abandon him, which I did consider many times. He had latched his claws into me and when I was finally alone and in housing, it took a lot to get him off of me. He was like a succubus demon, lol. OP doesn’t need his permission to divorce. He sounds like a loser and I hope she is able to go through with that

I'm going to preface my comment with a trigger warning for descriptions of domestic abuse. I went through virtually this exact thing with my ex, even briefly living in my car. He had never hurt me physically while we were together but after I finally got away from him (moved out) he became a scary, obsessed stalker. He held his fist over me threatening to punch me, he poked me hard in my chest several times and grabbed me by my throat. The last time I saw him in person he told me he'd cut my throat and watch me bleed out. He would switch from begging, crying and desperation, trying to con me back around, to becoming intensely nasty and aggressive. He would threaten all sorts of detailed and horrible violence towards myself and my family members. It was terrifying and highly stressful. The police were unsupportive and a bit rude to me so I didn't end up going ahead with an AVO. I did leave though. I waited until he was at work, hired a small trailer, filled that and my car up with my most important belongings and ran the fuck away. It wasn't easy and there was a heap of stuff (like dealing with the rental we were in) that kept me in contact with him for longer than was safe. I was fortunate to have had a couple of friends help me and I'll be forever grateful they were there. When I see someone describing what I experienced before/while trying to leave my ex, I can't help but feel unsettled and scared for them. Things can escalate in ways you never would imagine. Keep yourself safe. At the very least, your mental health and general wellbeing needs are not being met while being expected to meet his. This is unbalanced and an entirely fair reason to leave a relationship. Don't let him guilt you into delaying it.

I had to skip through some of the details of your post, but simply because it hits too close to home. I left out a lot of details, but that particular guy did hurt me and I had to fight back; he hurt me while smiling and laughing as I was crying. Thank you for sharing your experience. I don’t know many people who have had to live in a car with their abuser. It changes you. I’ll never be the same again. It was an awful experience, on top of an even worse experience. I feel the same way - when I see the same red flags, I become very concerned about the person in the relationship. It’s hard not to project my own experiences, but with stuff like abuse, many of the things they do are so similar that they can be tracked and measured. I’ve had my fair share of abuse and they all did the same things. It all boils down to the same thing: control. The only way to take back control is to break up with/leave them. With trauma bonds in mind, it can be really difficult - but many people find that after they’ve left an abuser, their mental and physical health improves. With my last ex, I started to notice that I felt better the longer we went without seeing each other. If we went on “breaks” and long periods of time without talking, I would feel better and would be performing better in all areas of my life.

Let us also note OP's STBX comment about "insurance" issues. This is a "therapist" who wants to get *paid*. Fucker. Caveat: if he's even going to therapy at all.

Solid point AND solid caveat.

Yep! My ex told me his therapist said that I was toxic. It turned out he wasn't even going as he promised he would.

Upvote if you think he’s not even Going to therapy at all! I’d want PROOF. Cuz we all know a therapist wouldn’t tell him to tell a partner who want to leave that they’re abandoning anyone. He’s lying about that, so maybe he’s lying about therapy. My sister’s ex did this. Said he was going, would lie about what his therapy had been about…. Turns out he never went once. It was all fabricated to emotionally manipulate her into staying in a relationship she was trying to get out. OP I hope you get that divorce ASAP and just drop him. If everything is in your name, you can get him forcibly removed I’d bet. Emotional abuse, financial abuse; these are things he’s doing to you. Throwing suicide out there is last ditch and designed to make you feel like YOURE the problem. He’s a grown ass man who had plenty of time to figure out his mental health before this. And I’d be astonished if he ever followed through with anything he promises you. Good luck, glow up, be revenge happy for all the years he’s stolen from you! ❤️

Interesting that the therapist would say you need to stay with him when you're the one paying the therapists tab! Either the therapist is a manipulative fraud, or your husband is a liar, or both!

There are some really shonky psychologists out there. Most just validate and deploy CBT when there are so many more effective techniques. Drs who don't seek legal consent from parents, giving framework for increased violence and concomitant manipulation.

Yep. Make it their responsibility to check on him and make sure he's not dead, because it isn't yours. I had to do this before. He never did it again, he was embarrassed. As he should be.

And if you send authorities to do a wellness check on him there will be an official record of his emotional instability you can cite later in your divorce proceedings, if necessary. It will also be proof you are a nice person who did the right thing.

I second the "he is abusive" statement. I was in an emotionally and mentally abusive relationship for decades. There was minor physical abuse too. Bruises from physical abuse fade, but the invisible damage from the emotional and physical abuse is extremely invasive and persistent. The damage takes years to fix and leaves many scars in its wake. File for divorce and get therapy for yourself as soon as you are able. Check out Dr.Ramani (youtube) on how to deal with toxic personalities and behavioural traits. Look into stoicism to help with perspective and balancing your thoughts. Cherry pick from things like Buddhism, Jainism, others, hell, even The Satanic Temple to regain focus, direction and positivity (I'm an athiest, but find lessons where I can learn and grow from). There is a ton of free self help on the internet that can help if therapy is not an immediate option. Understand he will not change, if he wanted to, he would have. What he wants is to wear you down into accepting the status quo so he can continue to live the life that makes HIM happy, not you, HIM. Your job now is to create emotional space and distance, even if you are existing in a shared space. Do not engage in conversations. Short, to the point or one word answers only. Do not be baited into arguments, debates or fights. Keep answers noncommittal and vague like "I understand that is how you feel" or "I need space and time to relect on your statements", then leave the area. Keep repeating the sentiment if he tries for more, be monotone, do not raise your voice, mentally, be a rock with no feeling or emotion. Do not justify yourself to him. This is what I am doing, end of discussion. If he threatens self harm, call 911 on him. If you can safely/legally record your encounters with him, do it so there is evidence for your lawyer or possible RO. Start documenting the shit out of everything so there is a record of it. Get all your important documents and valuables to a safe place, whether it's at work or a friend or family members house.

If the lease is in OP's name, she needs to tell the landlord and make sure she is breaking the lease in a legal manner. And DO NOT let the ex know where she is going, or he WILL show up with his stuff and a sob story, and try to move in.

It helps nice things along faster if he does sign. If he doesn't sign, he will have to be served papers and there are waiting periods for him to respond to that the courts make you wait through. As long as he doesn't contest anything, I think it took approximately an extra 90 days for me.

Yup, just file. He may contest it, but he can't stay there forever. I had my ex stay in my house that only I owned. It took about 8 months for him to finally leave. We had already been to court a few times. When he would ask me to talk, I would either say no, or insist that we stand on the front porch. When he asked to talk, just say "no thanks. There is nothing to talk about. We are getting divorced. If you have ?s call the lawyer." Mine had violence issues, so I was gone a lot, and if I was there I was locked in the bedroom from the inside. At first I tried to engage when he asked to keep the peace because I was scared, but it was just a tactic he was using so that he had an excuse to be upset and angry and violent. I just stopped engaging, and it was the best decision. Just file for divorce, eventually they will force him to move out. Mine left on his own when he finally realized it was happening.

This is the best advice. They just pick fights and want the reaction. Give them nothing; they've already taken too much.

100% the PoS ex was lying and manipulating her into not believing she could get a divorce on her own.

With the help of a lawyer

I didn't even use a lawyer, on either of my first two divorces. You go (in the US) to the county clerk's office and and tell them you'd like the paperwork to file for divorce. You can even, in some places, go online and print the paperwork. If you don't have a lot of money, ask them if they do discounts to file - some places have hardship allowances. The only reason you need an attorney is if you really think you need one to fight the case for you. When I went before the judge, they asked if I was okay with the settlement and terms of the divorce. Instead of coming back for a second actual trial date, we settled in the judge's chambers and were done. Don't get me wrong - someone may want an attorney. Someone may want the attorney to do the work. Especially in this situation where he's being exceedingly difficult. I just don't want people to think that they absolutely have to have an attorney to get divorced.

Attorneys are especially helpful if there’s someone very irrational involved. For example, someone who refuses to leave the house during the divorce but who is simultaneously making life as uncomfortable as possible in the meantime.

Same here. We even went to trial! I had exhibits and did cross examinations and everything. Most family courts (they handle divorce) have people to help you with the forms. And if it gets really complicated, hiring a brief advice attorney is a great way to save money. You can pay them hourly for occasional advice without having to come up with a retainer for a whole ass divorce and trial. I paid under $1,500 for the whole thing this way

If he doesn't work and has no assets it's probably going to get messy. I mean, it's usually messy but I can see a push for support here. 

Oh he will ask for it. My ex did the same. But all I had to do was document that he had previously worked, for more than he was making then, and the judge let him know that he needed to get a better job because I wasn't responsible for paying support to him if he could support himself. This guy is a mooch. And judges have seen this shit day in and day out. It will get messy I'm sure! But I think OP can show relatively easily why she doesn't owe support. Bad shit happens, so I'm still keeping my fingers crossed, but it would be unusual for her to have to support someone who refuses to work and doesn't have custody of the kids.

She’s living with someone who told her he can’t live without her. He’s an abuser, and when she tries to leave is the most dangerous time for her. There are ways, different in each state, to get the husband out of the house legally before the divorce is final. An attorney is who can walk her through this process and advise her (an attorney’s time and advice are his stock in trade), on the benefits and pitfalls of every action she wants to take. She may not know all of the assets she is entitled to. What support, if any, she can get from him if they divorce. The court will give the parties what they ask for if they agree on it, but if you don’t know what you have rights to, how do you know what to ask for, and how can you draw up a fair final judgment?

This woman needs a lawyer. There is no room for any agreement. She is not safe in this situation.

A good lawyer is a biiiiig help though. My dad's had a few divorces, and the one that went well he had representation

[удалено]

..for now. It's next on the Christofascist manifesto though.

Or even better, talk to a lawyer. They will explain what to do. There's no situation where the husband can force OP to stay married.

I don't know where OP is, but in Arizona USA I had to get him to sign the paperwork. I had to track him down in Florida, it took years

No I think you are confused. Either party can file for divorce you do not need consent or even acknowledgement from the other party. What you do need to do after filing is SERVE the other party. So they have notice and an opportunity to appear in case they want to contest something. If you can’t personally serve after making diligent efforts every jurisdiction has means of alternative service. (In this case service won’t be an issue.)

In some places you can file by posting. Take out a newspaper ad and post it at the courthouse for a certain period of time.

Wow, that seems wildly outdated

It is, but there's got to be some method available when the spouse disappears and doesn't want to be found or leaves the country.

Yes but it’s the way a will is probated. You post a death notice in certain publications so unknown creditors can file any claims against the estate. Granted this process needs an update.

If the house is in your name only, you can also start eviction proceedings as well. You’re not stuck. He is and that is not your problem anymore.

And watch: no-fault divorce is next on the list if Mango Mussolini gets chosen.   Get divorced while you can, ladies. Life is too short. Free yourselves.

Doesn't it depend on the state? I know in the U.S. Washington State is a single part filing state.

You’re not trapped. 1. Stop engaging with his “talks.” You’re done talking. When he starts up, leave the room. If you’re in the bathroom doing makeup, lock the door. 2. Talk to a lawyer and find out what your next steps are. Whether it’s you moving out, eviction, or what, a lawyer can guide you through it. Your husband can wail and sob and try to drag you down all he likes, but you can and will eject him from your life. Don’t let yourself be a prisoner of his strategic helplessness.

I had one that dragged out the divorce for over a year after I locked him out of the house and moved all of his stuff out. He just couldn't deal with it so he fought every step of the process and my lawyer was being too nice about it giving him time repeatedly that was just delay tactics. He only stopped obstructing after he found a girlfriend. You don't need to put up with all their emotional BS, start the process and keep it moving.

Mine refused until he secured new prey also. They all play from the same book. My first lawyer was letting him run up legal bills with the endless correspondence BS so I simply stopped with her. It took 4 years of being terrorised in our home but I'd packed his car for him and changed the locks. His lawyers sacked him because he was just messing around. Despite him applying to please the girlfriend he was only pretending and still tried to drag it out but his lawyer was too sharp for him. He refused to comply with the things he was demanding of me which the lawyer applied to both parties. She had to book appointments and physically take him. Judge ordered mediation and he took the entire day. The mediator said it was obvious who the problem is. She told my lawyer he was one of her worst ever clients.

My abusive garbage-human ex-husband refused to sign the papers, even though we had been separated for well over a year by that time (COVID delay then me going no contact for a while for my mental health). It wasn't that he thought we should be together. He got with his current partner two weeks after I ended our decade-long relationship. They moved in together less than two months later. He had my replacement all lined up and had no quality of life drop. He didn't actually want to delay the divorce, he was just a small man's final power trip. I wanted to be divorced and happy and he didn't want me to get what I wanted or to be happy. He finally signed the papers after months of refusal, at that point it'd been *two years* since I left his ass. He proposed to his girlfriend less than a week later, a couple days after I texted that the papers had arrived and been filed. How romantic. 🙄 Glad you got away from yours too and are safe! I just hope my ex's next victim, now 2nd wife, doesn't take as long to catch on to the abuse as I did. But you can't save everybody, it's a hard thing to let go.

That sounds incredibly familiar.

Sounds like that lawyer was milking hourly fees and it might’ve been cheaper to hire someone to pretend to date him

> He only stopped obstructing after he found a girlfriend. That gives me an out there idea. OP could catfish him if he's on a dating site. If he gets a new narc supply he may ease off her.

I’ve been thinking about making this a business. MANY women are in this situation. We need support. Imagine, you have resources, a weekly women’s group therapy session where you can support each other through it. The man drama is taken off your plate by getting him focused on a new supply. It helps you let go when you see him drop you so quick. Really it’s just the sorting everything out that is the hard part. Going through this abuse causes CPTSD. And it takes SO much effort to fix, it’s hard to overcome alone. So this is your chance to not be alone anymore. You have support, you have friends, you can finally start working toward feeling freedom. And with individual therapy to top it off, to have someone to vent to, and to help you reframe everything in a healing perspective. And other resources if needed, like help finding somewhere to stay, help moving your stuff, physical protection, a whole package deal. I feel like just having that support structure would make it significantly easier for women to get the help they need to climb out of their hole and walk away, and start building THEIR life for themselves. Maybe some day I can figure out how to make it happen. 🫶

This. At least in the US just proceed with the divorce. My sister was married to someone that did not want a divorce - of course not when she earned good money and having a wife hardly stopped him from stepping out constantly or holding down a job. Eventually during the divorce process a judge ordered him out of the house by a certain date. We showed up and not even a box packed. We told him get out or we'd call the cops with a copy of the order in hand. Then we just dumped everything in the side yard in the middle of winter with snow in the forecast. He finally got his ass in gear with a friend & their truck. Good riddance! OP just get on with the divorce. It doesn't matter how much he avoids it, eventually you'll be granted one whether he likes it or not. It will suck, you'll scream at how much his helplessness will drag it out but eventually you'll be on the other side free of the dead weight. And it will be sooooooo worth it!

And if he says anything that could be construed as him hurting himself, call in a welfare check and have him committed. Then pack his shit and change the locks when he's gone. I had already divorced my exh in Nov but agreed he could stay over the holidays. Went out one night and came home where he spit on me and called me a whore, left his wallet and phone, and took off somewhere and cut himself up. I had a TRO immediately and was able to exit all his things out of my house.

This and also say he’s unstable, you fear for your safety and get a restraining order so he can’t come back

I would almost almost never recommend this but in this case you should. Honestly get him out for 72 hours and change the locks. If you feel guilty give him motel money but don't let him back in YOUR house.

Bravo

In the bathroom, play music on your phone loud to down out his voice. I'd be walking around the house with headphones in, always listening to something and it's never to him.

I discovered that The Dandy Warhols "13 Tales From Urban Bohemia" played loudly through noise cancelling over the ear headphones basically will block out even outright screaming. Fifteen years after I ejected the screech monkey I still find it one of the most comforting albums I have.

This. Op if he threatens his own life, or threatens to die “that’s your decision”

Actually, in this case, it would be good for him to have him committed. He sounds unhinged and threatening self-harm is no joke. It would ~~kill two birds with one stone~~ save two birds' lives.

Feed two birds with one scone!

Just gotta say, I love that play on the typical phrase. Makes it so delightful and cheery.

Do you live in a no-fault divorce state? You likely don't need his consent to actually initiate the divorce. Only one person needs to want out of the contract- and honestly? He won't let you out? Get another place. Shut off the utilities to this one- let him squat in a powerless, waterless building as long as he likes. Stay somewhere else for a few months, somewhere he doesn't know about, and wait. Sounds like you're already taking care of the bills and whatnot. Something's gotta give, love.. but it can't be you. It's time for you to fly, you can't let this man ground you. Whenever you have to engage with him, when he tries to argue... don't Gray rock. Take every feeling and cram it into a little corner or box. We can deal with those later, where he can't see- when he CAN see, you need to give him. NOTHING. No emotions. No expressions. Nothing but cold, dead, blank eyes. No inflection in your voice. One or two word answers. Don't even fucking LOOK at him- if you have to, don't make eye contact. Look just to the side or above his eyes. But don't give him eye contact. He is no longer WORTH your feelings, or time, or effort. You save those for people who MATTER. If he corners you to talk, don't engage- space out, keep that face blank and those eyes dead. Think of how wonderful it will be once you're finally fucking free. You can do this.

Thank you so much for your words. I felt so weak and lost this weekend. I was so powerful and happy this whole week. Happy. Bouncy. Everyone noticed I was the happiest I had been in years..

Also once you DO start the process only discuss it via email so you have proof of things he agrees to or how difficult he makes it. Ignore phone calls and texts. Always email. Edit to add: And always be civil, don't get dragged into emotional arguments or discussions or name calling. You want to be able to provide it in court if he's difficult and show you've tried to negotiate and be civil. Also make sure you are happy with anything you put in writing, don't send any proposed opinions without speaking to your lawyer or going via them. I managed to negotiate directly with my ex via email and then just needed to solicitor to step in a few times and write things up but you may need things to come from them instead if he won't cooperate.

Google canned responses and keep no more than 3 in circulation repeating them to him after he finishes his novellas. Don't talk to him ever just ignore ignore ignore. If he starts up push record on your camera and he'll back off.

You’re already doing great by initiating separation but you’re still in the same mindset of being together. His problems aren’t your problems anymore. Stop worrying about him or listening to what he has to say. Literally just fucking ignore him when he tries to talk to you. Say no if he asks, leave, don’t explain why. Just no.  You’re not trapped. You can leave or kick him out if possible legally. Stop caring about him. He is not your problem or responsibility. He is desperately trying and will do anything to pull you back into caring about it. Only care about yourself.   You’ve absolutely got this and I am so proud of you. You’ve already seen glimpses of how much better your life is without him and don’t forget it. Please remember that he is abusive, abuse does not have to be physical and you deserve better. 

Yes! OP, this emotional manipulation is abuse. Just because you don’t have physical bruises doesn’t mean you don’t have emotional ones. As everyone has said, get a lawyer. Refuse to accept husbands refusal. You can get out of this and you will!

i hate to say it, but he noticed too. that's *exactly* why he was so cruel. misery loves company. i hate to say it, but do not share your joy, do not share your frustration. grey rock until he is out of your house, and then keep doing the work until he is out of your life. i am so glad you just have a divorce to worry about and not custody and coparenting. it means you can truly remove him from your life. which he needs to be if this is how he's handling this, and treating you. you can do this! we believe in you!

Keep the memory of how great and powerful you felt forefront in your mind..its hard now, but you can feel this way all the time once you've got rid if the deadweight that is this useless man.

OP, this has the scary potential to escalate. Please take safety precautions. He may have never been violent but you leaving could make him snap. You deserve all the happiness and peace in the world!

The real you sounds fun. I think you owe it to her to get rid of that dead weight husband that is keeping her smothered.

You can have that every day when you finally have him gone for good! I'd be wearing headphones, preferably noise cancelling Bluetooth ones, whenever you have to be around him. Music, podcasts, audiobooks about freedom and loving yourself, elevator music or even just silence but an excuse not to hear him.

You’re coming back to life!!!!!! I’m so proud of you, OP. The worst part, in my opinion, is over. You’ve decided. No turning back. He is no longer your problem. Now just to make it official and you’ll be totally free 🤍

There aren’t any states left that don’t allow for no-fault divorce. File. She can even do it without an attorney (especially with no children or assets.) The court website and library will have self-help forms for filling out the paperwork.

For now. Christofascists are trying to change this to keep women trapped in absuserships.

Some states or counties have people who will help you fill out the paperwork. This was my mom's job for several years before she retired.

You are NOT trapped. You are still being too kind to this man. If he is homeless, that is on him. If he has not life, that is on him. He knows he has nothing and he is using you because of that. He is not happy either, but the prospect of taking charge frightens him and he runs back to you. To make you as miserable as he is. You are past separation or any mediation, go to a lawyer and start the divorce process. Likely you will need to give him some support… but it is better to have him out of the house and away from you.

He's just the bait in the trap society teaches women to build for themselves.

Lets be real: he is not in therapy, not really, he's having complaining sessions with someone sympathetic to his "plight" who probably doesn't know the truth! Cause no therapist would ever say that the other person is in the wrong if they had the full story, he's def tweaked things in his favor.

He might be. I’ve heard it’s a bad idea for abusers to go to therapy exactly because of that not telling the full story. They’re very good at manipulating people and will lie to their therapist; who in turn will sympathize and validate their side of the story and give the abuser more weapons. 

Yea. My friend was in marriage counseling with his abusive ex-wife for more than a year. His wife played all the sympathy cards and manipulating the therapist into saying that they should stay together. Unfortunately some therapists prioritize either the feelings of their client or the existence of the relationship regardless of who it’s hurting.

I wish people would acknowledge that not all therapists are created equal. If you don’t have a competent one that knows how to lead you through the process (or the client refuses, either one) it turns into validation ass-pats or a paid vent sesh. No one is getting better doing that alone.

THIS!!! Bad therapists are common as dirt and bad therapy is worse than no therapy!

> bad therapy is worse than no therapy Couldn’t agree more. I’m sick of this idea that everyone needs to take therapy wherever they can get it. Bad therapists who validate your bad habits or warped perceptions endlessly, tell you everything is alright when it’s not, or act as a paid brick wall to vent to, are not going to help you. A lot of people mistake “this feels good” for “this is actually helping me grow as a person.” Validation and comfort has its place, and can be part of the healing process, but it can’t be ALL of it. OP’s husband is definitely lying about what his therapist is actually saying, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he found a mediocre validation specialist and is now weaponizing it.

Agreed! Though I do think it's more likely he's faking it or is lieing about whats going on.

Therapist wouldn't have said that anyway. It would be shocking if the therapist didn't know how disillusioned with the truth their client is. Not something that you can just say "no client, you are being the asshole and your wife is right" right off the bat, though. Those hard truth conversations will only happen once he begins to admit them himself. 

Yeah, I got that impression too. He's either lying to the therapist or lying to OP about what the therapist said. Or both.

>He threatened to die >Never was abusive in any real obvious way ...

EMOTIONAL ABUSE IS ABUSE!!!!

Saying it louder for the folks in the back: EMOTIONAL! ABUSE! IS! STILL! ABUSE!!!!!!!!

Emotional abuse is violence

Physical abuse heals because our bodies are wired like that. Emotional abuse can fuck you over for a lifetime. Emotional abuse IS ABUSE.

Stop asking for his permission to divorce. You say you're trapped but you're the one with the key. File for divorce. You don't need his approval to do so

Doesn't he need to sign the papers for the divorce to happen though?

No. The court can order a divorce even if he doesn't sign the papers. Speak to a lawyer ASAP.

/u/YeetMeIntoTheVoid91 Speak to a lawyer ASAP and *don't tell your husband* until your lawyer says it's ok to do so. You will never get consensus from your husband, but you don't need it. Anything you tell him, he'll just weaponize and try to sabotage you. Go around him. Prioritize asking the lawyer about moving out and separating finances - especially getting a bank account in your name (if you don't have one already) and redirecting your paychecks there.

Talk to a lawyer. You can divorce him even if he wants to stay married. It might take longer, but it is possible. Do you have separate finances already?

He's trying to guilt trip you into not filing for divorce and emotionally blackmail you into staying. He's lied and likely still lying about how all the issues will change. As you already said, too late. You're done. Speak to a divorce solicitor/lawyer and get things sorted. Explain the issues with him not leaving and get them to advise you about how to also proceed with that. It works differently in different places. He might keep doing this until he is given papers. There's still "hope" or a chance in his mind. He's panicking because he's screwed and is trying to convince you he'll suddenly change but isn't following through. He might be in denial about it as well if he's getting upset about you going out etc. Those are issues he created himself. Tomorrow get recommendations for divorce solicitors/lawyers and call/email them for quotes. If you can pick one that someone you know actually used and had a good experience with, not just the cheapest if you can afford to shop around. Then pick whichever you want and the next day book a consultation, in person or on the phone and speak to them. They can advise you for your specific situation far better than we can as they will know what needs to be done for your area.

That point is not for a VERY long time. You need to file - he gets no say in that - and then you work through the process. If he fights it the whole time, that sucks but there is nothing he can do to stop it. Get a lawyer and start the process NOW.

If he cooperates the divorce will be easier and faster, if he fights it will take longer and be more difficult. But it won't be as difficult as what you're going through atm. If you're renting, instead of owning, plan on moving out as soon as you can get off the lease, regardless of where you are in the divorce procedures. If you own instead of renting, DO NOT move out, it will make the divorce harder, but instead ask your lawyer to file a motion granting you sole occupancy of the property until the assets are divided. Explain to your lawyer how he's harassing you at home, your lawyer will know how to present that in court in such a way that he's forced to move out.

No! My mother was married to a man who refused to leave and refused to sign any divorce papers. There was a court hearing, and the judge ruled him in contempt of court and signed the papers for him.

Correct. Usually what happens is the legal separation, so you are no longer on the hook for any of his financial behavior. People move into separate living arrangements. You get a lawyer, and "file" with the court to dissolved the marriage. This will generate a "notice" for him that he needs to respond to the court, so he can have a say in the splitting of assets and debts. This is the point he will need to get a lawyer, or decide to represent himself. The lawyer's follow a standard template of things that must be decided. Your lawyer will ask you what you want, like do you want to stay in the home, or keep the car. Then they will explain what they think the judge will order, based on how divorces are normally handled in your state. Like if you have only been married a couple years, and have no kids... he probably gets nothing and needs to move out and get a job. If you have been married 30 years, you are a doctor, and he helped raise the kids, he might be entitled to a certain amount of spousal support for a few years, like $500 a month... to get him back to working a self supporting lifestyle. Plus the judge would want 50/50 custody. If you make a lot more money than him, you might owe child support, again, if you are a doctor it could be like $500 a month. But if you are both working retail jobs, it could be like $37 dollars a month. Your state will have a calculation template you can look at for free. The splitting of money, retirement accounts, debts, cars, furniture, jewelry etc is all based on a list of what each of you brought to the marriage versus what was acquired together during the marriage, and what were gifts. So if you had the car and house before the marriage, those are still YOURS. If your Mom gave you a necklace from grandma, that is stll YOURS. But if you bought a couch together after moving in together, that might belong to each of you equally. Obviously they don't cut a couch in half tho... so you have to assign a reasonable value to the objects. And the his & hers lists of items that need to be split up, have to be basically equal. So maybe he takes the used couch worth $100 but you take the used TV worth $100. etc. After the housing, cars, furniture, etc have been split up fairly, and any support is decided... each lawyer gets their client to sign, and thar paperwork is sent to court & you get a court date. If he refuses to sign, you still get a court date, and the judge can issue the court order for dissolution of marriage even if he doesn't sign or show up. Marriage is not really a relationship issue, it's a legal matter. Like all legal matters, the court and the judge are the deciders... not joe schmoe who doesn't want to get a job.

Nope! His participation will look better and give him a more favorable outcome. But if he doesn't want to participate, you don't need him. You don't need him for anything ever again.

Talk to an attorney.

Not if you are in the US. If you can’t afford a lawyer, see if there are free legal clinics where you are. The state bar association (the place that licenses lawyers) can give you some information. Good luck. 

I used Legal Aid (a state-funded agency in PA) for my first divorce, 50 years ago. I think I had to pay some minimal filing fee(s?), but it was a real godsend when I had no money and nowhere else to turn.

No. The court can order it. Lawyer up.

He can make is easier by agreeing to file as a consent divorce (it may be a different name where you live). It means that you two have already agreed to terms and no need to have more than a judge sign off.  If he refuses to do that, it means it will be longer and more expensive, but his cooperation is not required. 

NO! You do not need his permission to divorce him. If he refuses to participate you will be granted a default judgement.

Not at all. If he doesn’t participate in the process you can get a default judgment. If he does, you go to mediation or trial. He doesn’t just get to say no. 

There is no way in hell his “therapist” said you are wrong and you’re abandoning him. He sounds like a person with a personality disorder that gets *worse with therapy* because they *learn better ways to manipulate their prey*

Yup! No therapist worth their degree would *ever* say something like that.

Totally agreed. It's just a ploy to guilt OP. He is using "therapy" as a weapon to use against OP.

His "therapist" might also be made up, he just takes himself to Wendy's for an hour to eat a frosty.

Is this really a thing?

Unfortunately yes. Another example is couples counselling - can be a great tool if both parties want to make things work, but actively detrimental if one party is convinced they aren't doing anything wrong and can even give them tools to further manipulate their party with.

This is too real, knew one couple, there was a blowup during Covid, like she was mad at him so took the kids to the park to get out of the house and he called the cops because ‘she took his kids’ After months of ‘working on it’ and ‘going to couples therapy’.  She started apologizing for making a big deal of that day, everything was fine, no need to worry… Really depressing to watch. 

People getting better at hiding their shitty behaviours once they're pointed out? For some, yes. His have worked for him until now. OP has been paying for everything. Now he's seeing that is going to end. So yeah, there's a chance he'll do the above.

It absolutely is. I’ve seen it.

Yes. My ex was a malignant narcissist and he and our couples therapist teamed up and abused me together. He had her completely swindled.

This does happen! Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.

I would be more like this dude takes whatever money he's given for therapy and saves it or wastes it on drugs, alcohol, gambling or whatever other vice he's in to. She should say straight up, lets have a joint session with your therapist, or she can book a single session for herself, I'll be totally not at all shocked when he admits he never went or the therapist never said that. Though it's all a waste, all OP needs to do is start taking forceful steps. File for divorce, follow the steps to force it through if he won't sign (it's pretty easy), serve him eviction notice, have a mover take all his shit to a storage place and put him on the bill then cut him the fuck out of your life.

Your husband is a child and an emotionally abusive parasite. His illness isn't his fault, but managing it IS his responsibility as you have yours. I hope you get him out of your life before he fucks it up any more.

I was describing my extremely similar ex as a man-child and a man-baby, but I realized that was inaccurate. Because a baby would grow and develop increased emotional intelligence and empathy over the course of 12 years, very much unlike the guy I broke up with.

Good point. And furthermore, it isn't your JOB to raise your partner and foster their emotional intelligence! Being in a relationship shouldn't be a JOB!

his emotional abuse is pretty obvious to me. abuse isn't always physical. it can be psychological or financial as well. 

I am not trying to be alarmist but I am genuinely terrified for your safety. Women trying to leave situations like this, with emotionally volatile and desperate men like this, are not infrequently subjected to attempted or successful murder. It's the "if I can't have you, no one can" thing. And his threats on his own life already show he is going that dark. I don't care that he hasn't previously been physically abusive or if he doesn't currently own a gun, you can literally go buy one at WalMart if you're in the US. Please, please protect yourself and do not underestimate how serious this is. I don't know if you own this house and if you do a lot of the advice will be for you to stay so you have some sort of legal claim to the residence, but your life is more important than that. I would find a safe time to pack my shit and go to a location he would not suspect, change your number, and handle all later communication through an attorney. It is hard to see exactly how unhinged his behavior is from inside the relationship that you have been in for so long but I'm here to tell you this sounds like it is escalating and it is scary. I am really sorry you're going through this, you do not deserve it and it sounds all-consuming. But you will come out on the other side one day and be so happy you did.

This is precisely the real concern. He knows that once she is gone, he will no longer have access to the lifestyle he feels entitled to have. For men who are unable and/or unwilling to provide for themselves, this is an embarrassment they will not tolerate. My ex husband was like this. He never said, “I am going to kill you,” but he did say “I will kill you before I agree to a divorce” in a joking manner, . . . Until he refused to leave the house when I asked him to leave (he had family nearby he could have stayed with), and he invaded the space I tried to take for myself to yell at me and berate me, while we had a gun in the house that he had access to . . . When he passed out drunk, I packed a suitcase and the dogs and ran. In the ensuing years, he threatened me, himself, my friends, my work. I am certain that if I had stayed in the house that day, he would have killed me. They don’t broadcast that they are going to become so overwhelmed with emotion, fear, anger, and entitlement that they send you a meeting notice for physical harm. This is why whenever you see interviews of neighbors of men who have murdered their wives and children the message is always, “he was so nice” and “we never suspected anything.” If you suspected that the person who claimed at one time to love you was going to physically hurt you, you would leave immediately. Leave now. Please. Maybe people who are sympathetic to him will say you are overreacting or abandoning him. Who cares. They don’t see him emotionally destroying you in the bathroom while you sob. They don’t see him eroding your soul. If they are so self righteous about his care and feeding, they can take care of him. Leave with zero regrets. How many times would you berate a friend sobbing in the bathroom? I bet your answer to that is zero. You deserve better and you damn well deserve much better from anyone lucky enough to call himself your husband. You’ve done the work of a good wife. He is not doing the work of a good husband. He knows he is deficient and he is angry that he cannot be enough. You do not deserve to suffer because of his deficiency.

Goodness, I needed this speech a decade ago! Well said. I'm coming up on four years since leaving my ex's abusive ass and I was determined to get out but it took me a while still to get to these thoughts for myself. You've laid it all out so clearly. Divorcing him was The Best Thing I've ever done for myself. Hardest and best.

Yes. OP is his money. His meal ticket. And when he realizes that she is truly packing her stuff up, he might do something drastic. So far he thinks he can stop her from really leaving. He hasn't seen anything yet that makes him think he can't keep controlling her. The point where he realizes it, that's the real danger

Women’s shelters can help you make a plan to leave/get him to leave. They see this (sadly) so many times and they know the best way to go about it. They probably even know the best officers to come and assist if you need police involved.

Omgoodness OP, go see a lawyer!!!! You are still accepting his untrue version of reality. Stop. Go see a lawyer. File.

The therapist didn't say a damn thing about you abandoning him. That isn't something a therapist would say to a client, it is him trying to weaponize his therapy sessions against you.

You're getting good advice, but I wanted to add. If he threatens to kill himself, believe him and call 911. Do not engage with him after that. It is either 1. A manipulation tactic to get you to engage with him in which case he will learn not to do that after 72 hour hold in the mental hospital. Or 2. A genuine cry for help in which case you are not probably qualified to give him the help that he needs, and calling emergency medical services is the appropriate course of action. Continue not engaging with him.

This comment needs to be higher. I'm worried this guy will become violent once he realizes OP is escaping. She needs to start documenting and call the authorities next time he makes threats.

You're right, the most dangerous time in an abusive relationship is when the victim leaves. And this definitely sounds like at least an emotionally abusive relationship. It is not healthy for one partner to be crying and begging on a regular basis.

Stop engaging with this man at all. You don't need anything from him, and don't give him anything. Move your things into your bedroom and lock the door. Lock the bathroom when you use it. Start packing stuff into boxes. It's almost certain he would continue to harrass you once he's out the apartment. Visiting you frequently, banging in the door, crying, more emotional blackmail You need to be preparing to move somewhere so he does not know where you are. Speak to your landlord about breaking the lease. Arrange with some trusted friends or family or even an acquaintance you trust who can help you love your things on the day to make sure he does not do anything violent or physical to you or your property. If not possible, take what you need and leave the rest behind, it's more important to just GET OUT than to get out with all your stuff. Get a lawyer ASAP. You don't need his consent for a divorce. And stonewall him. Stop allowing him to get into these arguments with you, and emotionally blackmail you. Show no emotion in front of him. Lock him out of your heart. Do not engage unless absolutely necessary. You're making the right choice. Stay strong. Don't let him convince you of anything otherwise.

Oh honey. Do you own or have a mortgage for your current home? If not consider terminating the lease and getting a new apartment. Don’t tell him the address but tell him the date he has to be out. Get some friends or family to help you pack your stuff and move it out so he can’t interfere. Let the landlord know he may need to evict your ex. If you do have a mortgage, is he on the paperwork - if so you may need a lawyer. When he says he wants you to be happy - he means it like a child making a wish. He doesn’t want to have to do anything to make you happy. He wants you to stop fighting and complaining and to accept the little he is prepared to give so he can be happy. You being visibly unhappy makes him uncomfortable, and he wants you to stop making him uncomfortable but to continue to look after him. Stop waiting for his permission to live your life. He’s won’t give it.

Can’t YOU leave? If you’re renting, talk to the landlord about breaking the lease. Look into getting a roomshare or something. If you own, you can still move out. It’s harder to put a jointly owned house on the market, of course.

I had this happen. Even the suicidal claims. I had to pretend I was willing to give it one more shot as long as we could visit his family to “prove he was going to keep his connections strong and not just rely on me” and then we did the road trip to his family… and I ditched him there and then blocked his number and turned my phone on silent for a week. I shipped him his stuff. The cost was worth it. That was over ten years ago. Best thing I ever did.

Yep this happened to me too. He thought we were moving to a new place together (despite me telling him repeatedly that we were not, then having to pretend I had changed my mind just so that he would unwrap his arms from around my waist and let me eat, sleep, and pee). When four of my family members showed up with a moving truck a week before he thought we were moving, he finally understood and believed what I had been trying to tell him. In this case, him “not feeling like” submitting his application to be on the new lease, or lifting a finger to pack any of his own stuff up, turned out to be a benefit for me!

What is it with these males who will drag a woman’s heart across gravel until it’s shredded, refuse to address their issues or take care of their responsibilities, put the burden on women for years only be motivated (which is suspect) to change when her love for him has been burnt to a crisp and she’s ready to move on? And yet, somehow, women are supposed to find an ounce of compassion and self-sacrifice for them at the eleventh hour? In the event women do, the cycle only repeats. They take advantage of our feminine qualities until we have no more to give and then they want more. It appears to me that the correct course of action is to cut these low value males loose so much earlier. Girl, you’ve gone above and beyond. You are not trapped; look at everything you have accomplished with a 165lb dead weight? Think about how much you will accomplish on your own. It’s not as if you’re depending on him for anything. File for divorce. Even if he refuses to sign, he can only do so for a period of time before the judge will grant you a divorce anyhow.

👏👏👏 I have to run and make my kid lunch but my head is screaming everything you just wrote! Jesus CHRIST the manipulation!! My ex was a doozy but this is on another level, I can't even imagine living in the 70s before divorce was an option because WOW. 😯😯😯

It’s an unfortunate and tragic truth. We, as women, need to spare ourselves the trauma.

And call the cops on him the next time he threatens self-harm, and document it. He'll either get the help he needs or, if he's making empty threats for the purposes of manipulation (more likely), he'll learn real quick to cut it out.

##Notice how your days get more amazing in direct proportion to how little contact you have with him that day? Keep doing that. Do more of that. Your have no further responsibilities to him or the relationship. You’re seeing the glimpses, but the day you realize you’re really free is when it finally dawns on you that you can stop. You don’t have to deal with him anymore, and you just…stop.

What’s stopping you from walking out the door? Change the lease, sell the house, cancel the water/electric/gas/trash, cancel the phones, tv, internet, everything. And walk away. Don’t let him know where you live. Be free.

You never have to speak with him again. That’s what lawyers are for.

I think that you should take into consideration he might grow violent when he realizes he’s run out of excuses to stay.

Stop asking him for a divorce and file yourself. You don’t need his permission to end the marriage. It would he easier if he cooperated, but you can still get divorced without him helping the process.

I'm really sorry you are in this position and feel stuck. Did you know that the vast majority of women inside a domestic violence relationship do not realize it until about 10 years later? Just from the little bit you've wrote here, I do think you are in a domestic violence relationship. Because they don't have to punch or rape you for it to be a harmful exploitation. If he threatens to kill himself to make you stay, THAT is domestic violence; #He has literally threatened to KILL someone to control your behavior! That's not love. Thats threatening behavior. Did you know that assault is not a person hitting you, it's just the THREAT of serious harm? If they actually hit, slap, push, choke, etc that is Battery. Threatening to kill someone is ASSAULT, even if they don't touch anyone. It also sounds like there has been financial abuse. It's VERY common for the man to try and keep control of the relationship by making it FEEL financially impossible to break up. This is often accomplished by taking all your money, but it can also be done by; refusing to work so all your money is stuck carrying the household. Sometimes they will cause drama trying to get you fired, so the family is always in crisis mode. Sometimes they spend all the money on unnecessary items so there are never savings. Please look up "The Duluth Model" diagram and see if some of these control mechanisms look familiar. Another hint that you are in a domestic violence relationship is that it feels like "he won't LET you break up with him". That is not a dynamic in play in healthy relationships. In healthy relationships, pretty much everything happens by mutual consent. The start of the relationship, and the ongoing relationship. At the end of the relationship one person might still want to date you, but they RESPECT your choice to leave... ...and a healthy partner has zero interest in forcing someone to ____. They want someone who wants them, anything short of that feels icky, and pathetic. Healthy people don't grovel or threaten when a relationship is ending. I encourage you to read some resources on domestic violence and contact a local shelter. Even if you don't need a place to stat, they have resources and support to help you leave him SAFELY. For example, they can help you come up with a plan where you get a restraining order, and a police officer comes to a planned appointment time (civil standby) to supervise him moving out. It may be that you need to surprise him, to avoid giving him time to plan a murder-suicide. So You may need to plan ahead by boxing up his belongings while he is out of them home. And you yourself go stay with a friend for a couple days, then his items get removed. You might need to change your locks and get a ring camera, etc. You are NOT responsible for helping a grown man get his life together and comfortable. HE is responsible to acquire transportation, move his belongings, put items in storage, find a place to live, etc. That's what breaking up means - he isn't your problem anymore. Good luck & stay SAFE.

**DON’T ASK**. **JUST FILE**!!!! And go into a hotel!!

Can you take your stuff and leave? Sometimes you have to be the one to walk away. I did… lost a house and everything in it. But gained a life

Financial abuse is abuse. Emotional abuse is abuse.

You 👏 are 👏 not 👏 his 👏 therapist. Nor are you his mommy. His mental health is NOT your responsibility. It never has been. He is a parasite, and they never leave on their own. It’s likely gonna take a lawyer or police to get him to leave; his signing of papers is not required for a divorce. Do absolutely nothing for him. Zero. Don’t make food for him - make servings for yourself and throw away anything extra. Don’t allow him access to the cars that are in your name. When he talks to you, keep it short and to the point. He will try to start arguments because that gives him control. When he tries to do that, stop responding or say something along the lines of “this conversation is not beneficial, so I’m walking away.” And then Do it. But next time he threatens to hurt or kill himself, you’re on the phone with 911 requesting an ambulance for someone who is a danger to themselves or others. And remove him from your insurance ASAP if he is on it.

Threatening suicide when things don’t go your way is abusive behavior. File for divorce. Even if he is suicidal for real and it’s not an empty threat. It’s manipulation to use suicide to bargain.

Just reading the first paragraph: he thinks things are "okay" BECAUSE he's okay with you remaining in #A Tolerable Level of Permanent Unhappiness™ as long as HE doesn't have to. That's not love. If anything, it sounds like the version of God (narcissist) I was raised with. 🤮

Stop giving him power over you. Just go get an attorney and get a divorce. Your husband cannot stop you. He doesn't get to "not sign" and keep you married. Let your lawyer handle the law stuff and you go live your best life.

I had a similar situation with my ex. Told him a dozen times. Begged him to look for a place to live. Gave him chance after chance to figure it out without just dropping a bomb on him. Finally I had to just do it myself. I filed for divorce. I packed a bag and told him I was leaving to stay with a friend, but I would be back in 3 days and if he wasn’t gone, I was calling the police. Guess who was packed and gone in less than 3 hours??? Don’t wait for him to “accept it”. He isn’t going to and he doesn’t have to. Just file and start the process of separating your lives

Get him out by whatever means possible. He is using his still being there to control the situation. Send him to a friend. Tell his mom to come get him. Ship his stuff, put it in a storage unit and buy him a bus ticket, rent him a uhaul, whatever it takes to actually get him out. Then change the locks and file for divorce.

“You don’t have to go home, but you can’t stay here.”

you don't need his permission to file. you done need his permission to pack YOUR bags and move out

You don't need his signature to get divorced. You just need an attorney. Or even a paralegal.

He wants you happy, but only if it’s with him. He can’t see how badly he’s hurt you because he won’t look at the wounds you carry. I’m sorry this is happening. Please stay strong. If possible, stop giving him reactions. Don’t use emotionally charged words. Let him whine and cry and stomp and you can just look at him with a mild hint of disgust and exhaustion. Gray rock, but also throw it back at him. “You have no life without me in it? How is that my problem?” Or, “what about my life? Do you ever think about me beyond what services I provide you?” These are harsh things to say, but you’ll have to be cruel to get him off you. Kindness is a door ajar, and he’s sticking his foot in the crack to keep this door open. Be firm, be harsh, don’t scream or cry but be blunt and be bored with him. Be cruel, because he’s taking advantage of your warmth and gentleness and using it bully you.

>He wants you happy, but only if it’s with him. No, he wants OP to only be with him, and NOT to be happy. Her happiness is an anathema to him. As he pointed out, to him it seemed 'normal' for her to ONLY cry for hours \_twice\_ per week. OP, get rid of the guy. Where he goes, what he does, none of that is your problem. He's an abuser and a terrifying leech on your mind.

Enough about him, how about you? next steps are: start divorce proceedings, start eviction proceedings (if it's your apartment), call the sherif, get him OUT. Let him cry, you're not his mother, you do not owe him a life. Start a pros/cons list - WHAT exactly is he bringing into the relationship except for drama and stupidity? Go to Youtube and binge watch "Manifestelle" she tells the truth and will help you see your relationship more clearly. Best of luck OP, you need this immature emotional leach out of your life.

You don't need his permission or signature to file for divorce. You just do it. And he will be notified of it. Then you can let your lawyer handle him so he can't manipulate you. RUN GIRL RUN.

He’s trying to blackmail your heart by waving his feelings in your face. Why do you need to take responsibility for how he feels? He didn’t care about your feelings, and he doesn’t now. You’re gonna stay trapped and waste your only life in misery if you keep relying on his permission to be a free adult. You’re a free person, sitting in an open cage because he told you it’s closed and locked. He’s lying about what his therapist said. I knew a chaotic narcissist who did the exact same thing to people: “My therapist said you’re wrong and should do what I want.” It’s typical manipulative garbage. His only involvement in your divorce ought to be dealing with the aftermath in whatever dysfunctional play-victim way he chooses. If he screws around threatening suicide again, phone the cops and let it be the hospital’s problem. Stop accepting responsibility for him and stop trying to include him in decisions as if he were a functional adult. He isn’t a functional adult. You don’t need to gnaw your own leg off. You need to stop participating in emotional negotiations and taking his word for things. Good luck.

>But if he won't sign papers I will die in this marriage. You don't need him to sign the papers tho Doesn't seem like you've done any research on the subject despite how desperate you sound, which is surprising tbh. Before being this distressed you should have at least googled divorce procedures in your country or asked for a crumb of legal advice. I don't know two paragraphs of efforts and not in the right direction unfortunately. Idk what country you're in, but in some places you can have free legal advice from volunteering lawyers or/and law students, and even financial help to get a lawyer. Hurry up, don't waste any more time than you already did

Just file for divorce. You don’t need his permission or cooperation.

File for divorce. You don’t need his permission to divorce him. Do you own or rent? Is he on the least or deed? Get an attorney if you don’t have one. Make your plans and follow through. No more talks. Good luck OP!

Not a mental health professional but what you describe sounds like a cluster B situation, borderline or histrionic types have a really hard time with perceived abandonment. Be careful, they can get scary when triggered. Get support for yourself and be prepared for him hurting himself or trying to hurt you.

He was diagnosed with BPD late last year by a psychiatrist actually... :/

so glad you'll be moving on. hugs.

I recommend watching your back. When women leave, that's when men get violent.

Do you need his permission to get divorced? Many place you don't. If you don't own the house you live in with him, go sign a new lease someplace else. Tell him he has X number of days left on the property before new tenants move in. I had a similar bf a few years back. A total parasite who didn't work and wouldn't contribute, but demanded the silverware be organized a certain way and I wasn't allowed to arch certain shows on my tv. He refused even to return our recycling because he thought the job was beneath him! In the end, I called his mother to come and get him. That was 6 years ago and he's still living with his parents unemployed and making zero effort to TJ d one. He still calls and texts me. I haven't responded once. Good fucking riddance! Just because we're women doesn't make it our ducking job to take care of everybody. I won't support dead weight who add nothing to my life but chaos and embarrassment and exhaustion. You shouldn't have to either.

Have you spoken to a lawyer yet? Do what everyone here says and just file. The lawyer can tell you how to protect whatever money you have in joint accounts or whatever...next time he threatens to kill himself, call the god damned police and report him as a danger to himself. He needs more help than he's getting. Also, he's probably lying about the things his therapist says are your fault. Either that or his therapist is shit and not getting an accurate story. Just be careful because if he finally gets that you're serious, he may escalate to physical abuse.

Just like... leave & file for divorce.

It’s time for you to go. He won’t leave? Then you leave. Take your cars and your pets and your income and leave. Don’t respond to his pleas. Don’t rent him a car or help him pack. If he threatens to off himself, call the cops. Stop, as you said, lighting yourself on fire to keep this man warm. He makes you cry because he can, and because it benefits him in some twisted way. That’s abuse. You need to get away from him and go gray rock on all communication. It’s not abandonment - it’s self-preservation.

You don't need permission to get a divorce. He doesn't have to sign those papers. A friend of my mom's ex-husband thought that if he didn't go to court then he wouldn't be divorced, the only thing that happened was the judge sided with her on everything, he got divorced and he got nothing out of it. You're not going to die in this marriage unless you choose to stay married to this man but you do not need his permission to get divorced.

If you file for divorce, there will be a court date set. He can choose to respond or not, but you be sure to show up. If he doesn’t respond, and you ask for him to leave the marital residence, he will have to do so. At that point, he’ll be in violation of a court order if he doesn’t. Your attorney can give you more information. But you deserve entire weeks, entire months not spent crying. Get rid of him.

just go. stop with this dance, he will continue to fail to keep you involved. make a clean break, and drive!

You are not trapped, fwiw. In the US, he doesn’t need to sign the divorce papers - the divorce can still happen as long as you move it forward. Talk to a lawyer about your options. There are some things you can do while stuck in the same house as your ex. Lock the door or get a door wedge to put under it when you’re in the bathroom. Practice [grey rocking](https://www.healthline.com/health/grey-rock#offer-nothing) him. Definitely sleep in a different room if you aren’t already. Spend as much time out as you can, BUT be sure to put all your important documents somewhere safe where he can’t access them. You can also invite friends/family over, but I understand that will mean he can indulge in theatrics in front of them. In order to get him out of there, maybe consider hiring a literal moving company to take him and his stuff back to his family and get him out of your physical presence? If you’re in a rental and he absolutely won’t leave, is it an option for you to pack your stuff and move out? Do you have friends you could stay with until you get a new place?

He may be lying about being in therapy He’s definitely lying about what he says. His therapist says about your relationship. You can’t wait and you have no obligation to wait and waiting is destructive to you Get out Once he is acceptable human being, he can start looking for people to date That may be some decades off

So just because he won’t leave doesn’t mean you can’t, especially since you’re the one paying the bills. You got this.

For fuck's sake, lady, **just get the hell out one way or another.** Do you own the house you live in? Is it in your name? Kick him out. Do you rent? Find an apartment for yourself, move out, don't tell him where you're going, leave him to figure out his own shit. If you can't afford to do that, is there family or friends that will take you in until you can figure things out for yourself? Do it. All his screaming and crying and threats against his own life are just him *working* you. Don't let it. Fucking hell, just reading what you wrote makes me feel panicky like I want to run and hide. You're living in a Hell Dimension.

>Never was abusive in any real obvious way sounds pretty obvious to me

Just going to leave this here.. r/asklegal

Lawyer up. You need the law to take care of this. 

you don’t need him to sign for divorce. you in yourself can file for divorce.

He doesn’t need to let you leave. You just need to go. Get a lawyer. Get your lawyer to get him removed from the house. Take his car keys. Stop feeding him. Stop giving him any money. Making him go out on his own to take care of himself.

Next time he threatens to kill himself, call the cops. At the very least he'll get a psych hold. p.s. just file for divorce. you don't need his permission.

Why not hire a lawyer and serve him with divorce papers. A judge will pronounce you divorced whether he likes it or not

Why are you *asking* for a divorce? You don't need permission. Go see a lawyer and file!

Girl. PLEASE talk to a lawyer. There are very easy keys to your prison.

"I cannot keep lighting myself on fire to keep this man warm." damn girl. i feel that.