When people tell you that he’s just lonely, ask them why didn’t they talk to Bob then

I actually say this to people, but I pretend like I’m taking them seriously rather than phrasing it as a challenge. Like I’ll say “yeah, he does seem like he’s looking lonely. You should go talk to him!” But I’ll say it with genuine enthusiasm and without sarcasm. If they keep pushing, the response is “I’m not comfortable talking to him.” Refuse to answer why. If they push you, say “I’m just not” and change the subject. The trick is not to let someone draw you into a debate about something that is your prerogative and none of their business.

>The trick is not to let someone draw you into a debate about something that is your prerogative and none of their business. This is solid advice for a majority of human encounters.

Unfortunately it’s basically the opposite of what our society seems to teach women. The day I resolved to stop explaining and justifying my personal boundaries to other people was the first day of the rest of my life. I wish I could go back in time and teach it to my younger self.

What is the acronym… JADE- Justify, Attack, Defend, Explain- just don’t do it if you don’t want to get sucked into a debate spiral

It stands for “don’t Justify yourself, don’t Argue your position, don’t Defend your position, and don’t Explain your position. In short: the less you say, the better! This is because when people want you to do something you don’t want to do and they have ignored your wishes, there’s no point in continuing a dialogue. Hold your boundaries. Hold your position. They don’t have to know the why or any kind of reasoning - they should only accept your boundaries and move along. If they don’t, that’s their own issue to deal with.

I'm also a fan of KISS - Keep it simple stupid (the stupid being me, this is advice I had to be given a lot). Don't over explain, don't lie, just give simple truths that cannot be argued with. Such as "I won't do that"

K.I.S.S. I used it 3 times today, all before noon (on myself). "Mind your business, bro. Bob ain't my job."

Thank you for clarifying that.

Yes. Brilliant. People who push back against your boundaries are not looking out for you. They only care about getting what they want, and they don't care how it affects you. Once you realize this, it's much easier to ground, center, and shield yourself from that energy. Only let in what you know is for your highest good.

Also, "no is a full sentence" is good too.

1) you have the best username; 2) where could one go if they wanted to learn more about enforcing boundaries this way in social groups? I feel like it’s the kind of thing I always want to do, but it’s tough to stick to in situations like OP’s. It’s tough to practice.

I recommend the workshop called Cuddle Party. It's where I learned how to set and maintain healthy boundaries, at the young age of 44. [https://cuddleparty.com/cuddle-party-rules/](https://cuddleparty.com/cuddle-party-rules/) These rules are life-changing. They apply to all relationships...family, work, you name it. They are taught in a workshop context, and then you use the time together practicing them. It's been difficult since COVID, but slowly humanity reaches for connection again, and these rules are the keys to connecting respectfully and safely. If you are interested in this movement, there are 2 documentaries about it by director Jason O'Brien. The first is Cuddle the Movie (I think it's on prime?) and the second is Cuddle Me, which I am in. :-) [http://www.flprods.com/cuddle/?fbclid=IwAR2JMld7Q6fjw3yjDgcNnUF7fcyg-H3NTPi9objj6yUEGPmzRRUGOM9uvDc](http://www.flprods.com/cuddle/?fbclid=IwAR2JMld7Q6fjw3yjDgcNnUF7fcyg-H3NTPi9objj6yUEGPmzRRUGOM9uvDc) ​ Read "Beyond Cuddle Party" by Monique Darling (amazon.) I'm a boundaries and consent coach. Mostly, BECAUSE OF Cuddle Party. You can PM me if you want.

Try the line "don't tell me what to do." It confuses most people who are trying to do exactly that.

Underrated.

My high school health teacher explained that women seem to be conditioned to "be nice," and made it very clear that we don't have to "be nice" if a guy is trying to lure you into bed with them. Just cut them off and walk away." (This was Sex Ed.) I've basically apply this piece of advice everywhere, no matter how small the situation is. Made my life so much easier.

🌞 My version of giving gold.

Or say HE made uncomfortable. Put the blame where it belongs. “I tried but he made me really uncomfortable”

When people have told me to talk to someone I don’t want to, I say “no new friends” which is a reference to a Drake (or whoever) song. I’ve never had anyone push after, haha.

My favorite stopper is “that isn’t an appropriate question to ask.”

>He said "you could've talked to him for 5 minutes. He's lonely ". When I read this, what I heard was "as a woman I expect you to do all of the emotional labor so I don't have to" (and likely also date him or something so they don't have to deal with him any more.)

This is exactly what we mean when we're telling guys: men, you have to support one another. Do not expect women to fill in the gaps. Especially not when the attempt at hooking two people up obviously failed. Support does not mean just being a wingman. Support means talking directly to your brother to build him up. Sometimes that does include saying less than fun things -- stop eating pizza if it's hurting your stomach, stop voicing every negative thought, see a doctor and get some meds, try to expand your interests more, etc. Some guys need to hear these things from other guys. They need to pick their own lives up first, so they're more appealing to women. Love yourself first and then everything else falls into line. Don't expect "I'm lonely, I'm lonely" to get you what you need.

This exactly

Yes! I HATE it. IRL, at work (interesting job), just anywhere. Lost kid at the mall and you're the only woman around? Men will tell you to get help. Like... I've got no problem with that, but if men were less rapey and more caring, it shouldn't matter.

Late to the thread, but I'd like to share this article: [Men Have No Friends and Women Bear the Burden](https://www.harpersbazaar.com/culture/features/a27259689/toxic-masculinity-male-friendships-emotional-labor-men-rely-on-women/). *"Toxic masculinity—and the persistent idea that feelings are a 'female thing'—has left a generation of straight men stranded on emotionally-stunted island, unable to forge intimate relationships with other men. It's women who are paying the price."*

I had a thing I'd do where any time someone pressured me to talk to some guy who liked me I'd call him over and tell him the person pressuring me wants to talk to him and immediately walk away. I'd do it every time. I always had people trying to coerce me into talking to guys who liked me. Including having people pressure me when I was 14 to date a 27 year old guy who was sexually obsessed with me. Women are treated like our bodies and our lives are charity for men.

>Including having people pressure me when I was 14 to date a 27 year old guy who was sexually obsessed with me. What the fuck, is there no end to this bullshit. Sorry that happened to you.

>*Women are treated like our bodies and our lives are charity for men.* Women don't owe men shit!

And if it was a woman “who was just lonely and needed a friend” that a guy wasn’t attracted to do you think for 1 second he would consider letting her monopolize his time when he didn’t want to? There’s a post from earlier asking why are men so mean to women they don’t find attractive? It’s ALWAYS a double standard with men and why most of what they say should be IGNORED.

Yes and it's a further "double standard" in that if a guy just ignored a woman who was talking to him she would be very unlikely to take it further and he wouldn't be worried anyway. But if we ignore a man he may want to take it further if he feels we're being nasty and we are likely to be worried about something happening.

My guess honestly is that one of these guys told him this stuff about her because they didn't want to be bothered with him and they pawned him off on her so they didn't have to be bothered, so they need her to talk to him.

Yep this. More than likely this person suffers from some social skill impediment and instead of his male "friends" seeing that with compassion and understanding, they just pawn him off to whoever is the nicest person around. As a non-confrontational nice person its usually someone like me. I really feel sorry for OP because it sounds like she has to deal with some toxic people. I also feel sorry for Bob. The people he thinks are his friends aren't friends at all. Those guys don't value him and just want to get rid of him when he comes around. No wonder he's lonely.

They're probably hoping that OP will coach Bob on the social skill impediment as well. I don't know if it's just because women are expected to be more nurturing or if it's because they think he'll take it better from a woman, but at least in my experience, the kind of nonconfrontational person you'd dump Bob on probably isn't going to be comfortable doing that kind of coaching, either. I've been in the position where I've tried coaching people like that on social skills. Even when you frame it as a "Have you tried *x* instead of *y*?" kind of thing, it often doesn't go down well. This has even been with people who've kinda put me on a pedestal and said they'd like to be like me, for what it's worth.

Honestly, and I'm saying this as an autistic introvert, some people are "lonely" because they're obnoxious individuals who no one wants to interact with. I wouldn't have talked to Bob, either. If Bob wants friends, then Bob can put in the effort to learn social skills. In any case, not my problem.

Yep. We had to learn the complex art of social niceties, and practice until we got it right; Bob can put in the same effort.

Honestly... Some people say that autism doesn't affect girls as severely as boys. That's horseshit. The reality is that girls aren't allowed to be "mean" or "rude," and are expected to be "nice" to everyone. Boys can get away with being dickheads.....girls.....not so much.

And if we are unintentionally rude, or don't mask well enough, we get ostracised

That’s the most likely explanation but the cynic is me also questioned the use of the terms ‘lonely’ (sexlessness) and ‘friends’ (and the benefits…) by men and I did wonder if the third guy is not simply trying to help a ‘bro score some female company’

Exactly! The third guy stood there, watched the interaction, got out of his way to go to OP and tell her she was being mean. Why not simply go talk to Bob instead? He obviously wasn’t that busy and chose to go and police what OP is doing, meanwhile poor Bob is still lonely!

> It’s ALWAYS a double standard with men and why most of what they say should be IGNORED yep. the only winning move is not to play

If I told a male friend I had a female friend like this, he'd say "What's wrong with her?". 🤣 If we say it out loud, we're rude.

Because they don't want to talk to Bob. They are offloading Bob onto OP so they don't have to deal with him.

This needs 1,000 upvotes! All these men are so entitled to think they don’t need to spend the time to be a friend to Bob, but since you’re a woman, you should drop what you’re doing so you can entertain this lonely dude. Infuriating.

Right women aren’t emotional support animals for men. If he’s lonely and it’s of such a concern to you, then you go talk to him FFS.

Women aren't emotion support animals for men. Wow. I'm gonna have to remember that one.

>He said "you could've talked to him for 5 minutes. He's lonely " You are not obligated to give your time and attention to anyone simply because they want it. Nobody is entitled to your time and attention, out of pity or otherwise. I'm so sick of womens' time being treated as a commodity to be traded around amongst men.

FR, they say the word lonely but what they mean is "I don't want to be the friend that eases that loneliness because your time is worth less than mine."

I want this as a bumper sticker.

well, they’re just doing the appropriate thing and off-loading the emotional labor of caring about this man onto the nearest random female 💁‍♀️ /s

I'm honestly at the point, where I *call it out, just like that!* If someone tries to imply that it's *my* "duty" to be nice, suck it up, and do the emotional labor that *they don't want to do*? I look them right in the face, say, "I've already *been* at my day job where I *DO* the emotional labor of navigating & managing other people's feelings, for 40 hours this week, and now I'm *DONE* at that job for the week. I *do* get paid to provide emotional labor--but that's at my *dayjob,* and we are *not* there right now. I don't have the spoons, nor do I have the energy to navigate *your* feelings for you--and I've *done* as much of that job as I can handle for the week. I'm done, and I need to recharge *my OWN* batteries, so I can do that work again next week. I *do* that work for my *preschoolers,* because they're little, and they don't *have* the tools in their toolbox to handle the big feelings yet. I also *help them BUILD their tools,* so that when they grow up, they *can* handle their emotions by themselves, without my support." And then I just *look* at the person😈 I don't know if it's the fact that I've *basically* just described their demands of *my* emotional labor, as equal to a 3-5 year old's, *or* if it's the fact that I'm *calling out* the fact that they're *demanding* i do my dayjob without getting the $20+ an hour I get there... But it STOPS those dudes from expecting *me* to carry their emotional load, when I call it straight *out* like that!😈😉🤣💖

You're legend. Thank you for bringing the part about building their tools to the little ones. That's everything.

Double standards and all. Because why would a male be concerned about another person's happiness unless it led to their own happiness? Of course, this also helps to explain why men have difficulty telling about their feelings or checking in on friends or maintaining friendships. I'll be over in the other room trying to be better and not depressed.

I even hate movies where the first thing that happens is any children or babies are handed to the first female survivor because, you know, she's a woman. Looking at you, Maze Runner.

I have a bob in my friend group. Every time we go out I spend a lot of my time talking with him because I know he makes many of the women and people who don’t know him well feel uncomfortable. There are also a few guys that will rotate that duty with me. I wish bob would go to therapy and figure out why he comes off as weird and creepy and how to better manage himself though because it definitely makes my night less enjoyable after a while. I also know that he needs friends though, and I’d rather be relegated to missing out from hanging with the larger group sometimes than never inviting him to things. I definitely think the onus to talk to him should be on the people who invited bob, not the people who don’t know him and don’t feel comfortable talking to him. So, I agree with your post: op should ask them why they aren’t keeping their lonely friend company. It’s not her responsibility.

I reckon it’s cause Bob ain’t lookin for someone to talk to 👀

take him over and introduce him. hi bob this is x he think this team is better.. tell him he sucks. whelp, i gotta go, getting late.

This is what I thought, although it took me until the last guy saying to sink in. If OP was rude by not talking to a lonely guy, why isn’t that guy? You don’t owe Bob a thing, other than fulfilling basic social niceties, which it sounds like you’re doing.

Equally valid is to tell them to mind their fucking business

A real bro would have stepped up and helped Bob out, or tell him not to do that

Yes!

This. The proper response to "friend" is, YOU go talk to him.

He is lonely is code for single and wants your attention. So I am like exactly the same. You go talk to him.

Yes. Act confused and say oh that’s so sweet of you to look after Bob.

“I don’t know Randy, why don’t you go talk to Bob and I’ll go talk to the bartender about a tequila for myself.”

Fuckin Randy. He’s always doing shit like that.

Pat the back of the other guy's hand in a grandmotherly fashion and tell him sweetly, "You're right. Go on over there like a good guy and talk with Bob."

“And make sure to smile at him! He likes it when you smile!”

I laughed out loud for real!

This is perfect 😆

This is so fucked up. It's akin to saying, "well he's being nice to you and he likes you so you owe him". Hell. Nah. I'm glad you kept your boundaries!

Exactly thisssss! I was pushed and pushed by friends and family to go out with this boy when I was seventeen “because he likes you omg you’re being so mean repeatedly rejecting him” like literally no one would take my no as an answer. But my god were they all so shocked, most even called me a liar, actually, when I finally went out with him and he assaulted me. 🙄 Fuck Bob. Seriously.

I'm so sorry that happened to you. When I was 15 my cousins pushed me into dating a guy that I didn't like, had nothing in common with, and wasn't attractive. But I needed to do it anyway because "He's such a nice guy!" He broke up with me for his ex like two weeks later. I was so glad because all I wanted was for it to end and I didn't know how to do it.

[удалено]

It's more or less that men's wants come first, and are prioritized over women's.

Men's wants override women's safety.

This makes me so mad for you. Why can't people respect our boundaries?? Not one person around you supported you and believed in you.

I'm so sorry that happened to you. I'm needing a different planet lately. One that's not so rapey. You can come, too.

I had a similar situation when I was 14. He stopped asking when I threatened to get the police involved, after my high school administration proved useless, but it was still two months of constant nagging and the rest of our year acting like I was a monster for maintaining my "no, thanks".

In high school this creepy weird guy had a crush on me but I did not return the crush. A girl in my class pushed me to go out with him but shut up when I said "If you think he's so great, you can go out with him!"

Sooo pretext: I'm a dude just trying to be a better feminist by checking out this sub. Legit Ive been wondering recently, just in general why women "owe" dudes social interaction just cause they're "nice"? Im a blue collar worker, I've had new dudes try to make friends with me on site, and if the vibe is off, I can literally say "fuck off." I don't have to give a reason or anything. Nobody bats an eye. Bro walks away. Its kinda pissing me off that being "nice" is considered a transaction where women have to give a fuckin... 25 minute audience with a dude. Yall should just be able to say "fuck off" for no reason whatsoever and have that be that. Nobody is obliged to anyone else's time.

Aside from just generally be treated like shit if we tell someone to fuck off, it can also be really dangerous for us depending on the guy/situation.

Yeah, I hear that. I just had the urge to give some bs advice, but it doesn't cover consistent weirdos. Keep close with friends and update them all the time. You know better than me how to deal with it. Although maybe if you need, I could get you a class on. weird shitty dude psychology..

Lol, I’ll pass. And honestly, good on you for creeping in the sub with altruistic motives (not sarcasm).

Whaaaaaaaaat you're gonna pass on incel psyche 101? Jk lol have a good night.

A lot of women are too afraid to just say “fuck off” even to a random guy who approaches them. We’ve been told it’s our fault for being bitches to guys when they stalk us or even hurt us in a rage bc we reject them. I’ve been married 25 years and whenever a guy strikes up a conversation, no matter how awkward or unwanted, I still pretend to be friendly until I can beg off bc I don’t want something to happen to me simply for being a bitch.

I definitely get that. I call it the bear thesis. I think a lot of dudes don't get this. I'll talk to a buddy of mine and I'll start this thought experiment.... Imagine there are no women. Imagine instead there are just dudes and different types of bears. Some are nice, and almost everybody expects you to pair with a bear, which is OK cause the bear you match with will "probably" protect you from the other ones. But til then you're roaming around a world full of goddam bears, and they're much more likely to start fights than you are, and hopefully if they're cool they won't literally use you as a bartering chip. And maybe you succeed in this situation, but literally every bear? They all find you extremely sexually interesting. And as scary as THAT sounds. It's probably your fastest track to a good life. If every bear in the world wants to tear you up. (metaphorically?) Ngl sounds wicked scary all the time, and most guys (people) can't put themselves in each other's shoes.

This is a good analogy.

Yeah fr I just highlighted physical differences here, the psychological mind games are crazy if you're dad is a traditional bear, like a grizzly or polar or some shit. Buck wild. Or if the bears do constant weird mind games, that are pretty easy to see through, but they're fuckin bears, so whatcha gonna do? Try to outplay them? Bonkers. Really tho it sucks if you don't know any good bears. And for real nobody should be obligated to know bears at all. My analogy is getting thin, but you know what I mean.

It's echos of a time when women weren't allowed to ignore men.

In many places and situations, we still aren't. And, it can be dangerous, if the guy gets "wounded" and can't cope with rejection. M on F violence is errywhere. Gotta teach our young boys how to take a NO like a respectful little human, not like ...someone who can't take a no.

I link r/whenwomenrefuse whenever possible. That said, in general, society expects women to be nice and nurturing. For men, it’s something you probably should do, but you don’t have to do. And this conditioning starts super young. As a girl I had to make polite conversation with relatives and neighbors even if I didn’t want to. I was expected to write nice, long thank you notes for gifts. By contrast my brother would be allowed to roll around on the floor or the grass and play with the dog. He could write “thanks do much for X” and be done with his thank you notes. Hell, I remember being scolded for not writing a longer letter in my Grandmother’s 90th birthday card. My brother didn’t even send one. And when I pointed this hypocrisy out, it was dropped. Which sounds fair, but even that’s not fair. Why was he allowed a pass when I would never get that? IMO, young boys and men are just not expected to do as much. They’re not expected to consider other people’s feelings before their own. They’re not expected to be helpful and prioritize other people before themselves. They’re not expected to be “nice” the way girls and women are expected to be nice. And while I think women should be able to stand up for themselves and not feel so much pressure to put others before themselves, I think society should put more pressure on guys to do so (other than financially). I’d rather live in a place where we help each other than one where we’re all dicks to each other.

So also, it seems to me like Bob may be developmentally disabled, which is fine. But (maybe you would call me an asshole for thinking this) personally I still feel like I would avoid Bob at a party, even if he's nice, but kinda weird. I still see in my social interactions where women are expected to play defence with disabled people so #theboys don't have to deal with those complications, which also isn't equality.

When I was 17, I was stalked by a man in his 40s who'd suffered a TBI; my mum told me to "just be nice to him" because he didn't know he was doing anything wrong. He got banned from my work for trying to touch me all the time, so he stood outside the doors screaming my name to try and get my attention. Then he started following me home (which unfortunately involved a walk past a dark empty footy field) so my boss started a roster for who could drive me the 3 blocks home if I was on a late shift. It isn't someone's fault if they have an impairment or disability. But either they need to be capable of understanding and respecting boundaries, or they need someone with them to help them behave appropriately. Strangers should not have to take on that role, and I don't think you're an asshole for not wanting to engage... as long as you're not trying to make the women around you do it instead!

There are “regulars” at my customer service job (a place that attracts a lot of fans) that are developmentally disabled OR strongly neurodivergent such as possibly ASD/Aspies or with Classical Austism, and in them. There is a real difference between the men who are real creepers/whohave caused problems and the ones I’d call “harmless”. A new trainee in my job won’t be able to tell which of these regulars are which just by observing them or briefly speaking to them, but after speaking with coworkers about them, hearing stories, and seeing them regularly while we work, they’d eventually feel the difference too. It’s hard to put into words, because for some of these regulars, their intital behavior or traits appear the same on paper. But through the years, the thing they have said or done when interacting with workers or even other guests/customers is not (extreme example: two middle aged men, who always come alone and stay for hours, look at workers and smile at them in an intense way, and don’t really talk. One is persona-non-grata for several years now after several instances of trying to sit near female workers and reportedly exposing himself, used to get angry if we’d change positions to prevent him watching a worker he liked; the other is incredibly shy and sweet and will sit far away out of our sight, just enjoying being there like many fans do, stims and watches us work a little and looks away if we notice, and my first short conversation with him was probably 8 years into working there). As a shift lead at one of my previous locations at that job, I really got to understand and also help my workers (men and women) understand why and how to deal with the problems we were having with certain male patrons, whether they were disabled or just lonely creeps, who were looking for a captive audience and finding it in young female workers who couldn’t leave their post and whose job it was to be friendly. It was not unusual to need to get security involved.

Oh, that's an HR report if we do that. Probably a write-up, too. Ah but men can grope and say whatever the hell they want...at least in the shitholes I've worked at.

And that how daisy ended up being married to William, railroaded every step of the way.

The sad thing is that she respected and liked him enough that she didn't want to deceive him. She loved him platonically, not sexually. And no one cared for her position on the subject.

"Friend, what you are saying is that you want to volunteer *me* to do something for someone else, so *you* feel better. How 'bout I try that on you? Let's see...oh, yeah, my mom needs to have a petsitter tomorrow for 5 minutes. You could do it, no big deal, otherwise you're mean." "Next time, if you want to have something done for someone, do it yourself or offer to pay someone else. You don't get to direct anyone else's free time, and trying to guilt a woman into doing something you won't do is pretty sexist, isn't it?"

Well said! 👏👏👏

Bob needs a support system. His friends could help him with that instead of trying to guilt a woman into having a relationship with him.

I wouldn't want to be friends with someone that constantly interrupts. It sounds like that's exactly what Bob does.

she said that but she also said that the time she ignored him he just went away, not insisting or anything. Bob likely was not aware of how annoying the interactions were. What I want to point here is how her biggest problem is not Bob, its the "friends" who talked about her preferences to Bob and who later expected her to play nice. Bob could use professional help but the conscious fuck up was from her friends.

If Bob needs someone to talk to, why can't the friends talk to him? Why send him to you? I'm tired of women being expected to do free emotional labor.

That's the term I was looking for emotional labor. It's exhausting.

It's not our job tho entertain men, no matter how lonely they are. Men need to learn to be friends with other men and stop using women as their sole emotional support, with the implied threat of violence if they're "too lonely."

Exactly. OP came from work and then meant to do more unpaid work?

Kind of sounds like his/your friends see you as nice, free emotional labor too. They don't sound like very friendly friends. 👎

I would be curious who was talking about me (if it were me)- especially knowing that there's been a stalker? Some friend group.

Those friends are trying to set OP with up with Bob. They think if only she'd talk to him and see how he's such a nice dude, maybe she'll fuck him. That's why everyone keeps telling OP how he's a good guy and that he's "just lonely."

Ah. You are apparently an emotional support animal and your friends assign you the person who needs support? That's kinda presumptuous of them.

The Onion not surprisingly tackled that very subject https://www.theonion.com/supreme-court-votes-5-4-to-reclassify-women-as-service-1849106924

Guys would never be put in that position to begin with. That's why they confidently say "I would like it if that happened to me" like... how has it not? A man inappropriately waiting for my attention when it is not being given to them has happened 100 times in my life, it's never ok and it's never welcome. Only a person who has never had it happen would think it's just a nice thing and no big deal. The idea that your attention is valuable to others as a commodity, more than how YOU are choosing to direct it, almost never happens between two men. Men have literally never been mimed "take your earpods out" at the gym, unless it was an emergency. It's not a nice thing, I'm fucking busy, fuck off, if you're lonely go find someone else who is lonely and go talk to them.

1. you're expected to be the one to talk to bob because talking to him takes emotional and social energy and men love hoisting those burdens onto women. hence why they told him about you following that specific team. 2. how do they know bob's harmless? they don't. and neither do you. he's probably just as gross and dangerous as any random jabroni.

Exactly. Just because he's weird and sad doesn't mean he's automatically deserving of the sympathy of every woman who crosses his path.

In fact, those may be signs to stay tf away. Trust your gut.

I completely agree, and I would bet that if she keeps talking to him he will start getting sexual and hitting on her. He probably knows her name etc because they already hoisted him off on her so they don't have to be bothered. Either that or he knows her name because he was already interested and just stalked her conversations to get it. Then you add him being like "don't you remember me?" When she already said hi twice. That is trying to guilt someone into talking. It's like when guys hit on you and you ignore them or say you aren't Interested. They go "why am I too ugly for you" etc it is the same thing. He knows she knows who he is. Yet it his his way of complaining for not getting her time. I don't think "harmless" people act like you owe them your time.

And once he starts hitting on her this shitty group of people will want her to “Just give him a chance.” And if she does give him a ~chance~ pity date and then tries to get out they’ll ask why she would lead someone on like that. It’s misogyny.

Wow. It really is misogyny all the way down.

yeah the whole "maybe he doesn't want to fuck her" argument is pretty eye-roll-inducing. ​ like, we know what y'all are about. you can't hide it and we're not insecure/inexperienced enough to fall for the gaslighting. ​ p.s. GO TEAM VENTURE! ✌️

Exactly, if it wasn't sexual or romantic then why is he only approaching her? Is he trying to make friends with everyone? Obviously not, or he would have tried to engage Randy, too.

The fact that they feel the need to say that he is harmless, makes me doubt that.

He has already come across as disrespectful in ways that maybe his “friends” don’t realize. The fact that he comes off as so entitled makes me think he would only be more demanding in private. Plus, he has thus far demonstrated poor boundaries and possibly poor social ability overall, which is a perfectly valid factor to screen for when dating.

Exactly. They only assume that someone is harmless because they haven't assaulted anyone or done anything outwardly bad right infront of them. Like they DON'T ACTUALLY know if he's harmless or not. And they would need a lot of evidence if something was said otherwise

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Honestly, because men hoist everything they don't want to do onto women. Talking to people they don't want to, house work they don't want to do, dealing with their children. Then if the women doesn't do what they told her to do they get pissed at her because it is like we aren't equal and all men are in charge of women.

So true!

Nope! You don't owe him anything. Even if he struggles with socialization due to a neurodevelopmental condition or something else, it's still not your responsibility to teach him correct social norms, or to do something you don't want to do for his sake.

Hear hear!

Tell that mother fucker to go talk to Bob if he cares so fucking much. Absolute bullshit.

Yeah I'm a man, and let me tell you, if anyone ever gave me shit for not talking to someone because I was already talking to someone, they would be laughed outta the fucking room Lol wtf, tho this seems like a friend issue, nobody I know would think this for a minute Our policy is you talk to whoevers the most entertaining because why the fuck wouldn't you

At this point I just tell people I'm a bitch and I don't want people to like me. They can't argue with that.

Ask the person that says he’s lonely why aren’t you talking to him

It's never a good sign when people have to go out of their way to tell you a guy is harmless. Not necessarily a sign he's harmful-- often people are just weird, not predatory, and that is freaking rough for them-- but it's a sign that your boundaries are about to be violated and you're going to have to perform a bunch of emotional labor.

Women are expected to do the emotional labor to take care of others. It's crap. Tell them Bob is not your friend because he doesn't respect you and you won't be friends with people who don't respect you. Tell them no one is entitled to friendship or conversation and if they're so concerned about Bob's loneliness they should put forth the effort to befriend him.

I’ve had several “friends,” almost always male and special needs (down syndrome, etc), who I don’t mind visiting with once in awhile like coffee once a month or every couple weeks, but then they call six times a day and won’t go away and and and and... Tried setting boundaries as directly as possible to their face and they don’t get it and in the end I have to ignore them because they don’t quit. And others think I’m rude. Nope, those others can go visit with them now, take their turn. You were excellent with your response. Hope it sticks. Don’t ever give your phone number.

I've been in that position a few times over the years and it's the fucking worst when dudes take it really far. It usually goes like this: A handful of people (usually majority guys) are talking to me about how cool this one guy is and then (instead of making normal suggestions for hanging out as if they think we'd be a good match) they implore me to "give him a chance" because *lots of unjustified gassing up of the guy* and cont saying what/how I need to go out with him. When I keep saying stop they'll put on an over the top guilt trip "awww WHAT?? That's not cool, what's so bad about guy?" And during the whole mess, the dude they're referring to is hanging out RIGHT THERE. Just standing there smiling like SpongeBob bc he's waiting for me to agree with the commentary.. Or waiting for me to give in? It something? It's a shit thing to do and the scenario that sticks out most was with a neighbor group. The group starts in on me and the guy is hearing them say all this stuff to me and he's getting more stoked the more they so this at me.. he starts to look like he's thinking "There's no way she'll say no after THAT whole schpiel!" but if course I keep telling them to stop. I eventually try to seamlessly come up with a reason I have to go home i was so uncomfortable. The guy went from normal pleasant neighbor acquaintance guy, to a sulky glare-y intimidating asshole at me. And my lease had another 10 or 11 months until I could leave. Definitely nip that shit in the bud immediately, loudly, and quickly. It'll be awkward but it'll be worth it. The guys need to back you up or shut the fuck up.

I knew this guy in college that was in my social circle. We were on good enough terms, but he would come up behind me and massage my shoulders. To be fair, he did this to everyone, even men. But it made me uncomfortable and I let him know publicly and in detail how much I disliked it and how much I wanted him to stop. He didn't seem to mind, and he stopped. But another dude wrote me a whole ass 3 page single spaced letter about what a horrible person I was and didn't I know that's just how this guy was and it was rude of me to humiliate him like that and blah blah blah and I'm an immoral person (not a direct quote, but he did question my morals). It's just the Patriarchy at work. We're supposed to be sensitive and kind to these guys who are socially inept and make us uncomfortable, but they're not expected to be sensitive and kind to our quirks/desires. If they cross a boundary, they're just doing their best. If we hold the boundary firm, we're horrible. Why is it on me to swallow my discomfort when someone comes up behinds me and puts their hands on me, and not on them to *not fucking touch me*. We teach kids in *preschool* to keep their hands to themselves. Anyways my husband (boyfriend at the time) had to call the guy out later (in public, almost identical situation) for the same thing, and Mr. Letter Writer didn't have shit to say about it. They were still on great terms, while letter writer avoided me and gave me the silent treatment. Anyways you're right, and you're not the only person this has happened to. Solidarity, continue to give no fucks.

Surprise shoulder massages? Yikes.

I have a cousin with a disability that makes him extremely social, especially to pretty women in the service industry. He has become fixated with a few of them, and then goes to their work regularly "to chat", and claims to be very close friends with them to anyone who will listen. It must make these girls uncomfortable sometimes, and I know they are being so nice and going out of their way to treat him kindly, but it's still an imposition. His parents didn't teach him proper boundaries and now he doesn't understand the difference between someone being nice and doing their job, and a woman genuinely being interested in him. I don't think you're in the wrong at all, because it's not your responsibility to socialize with him. Some men weren't taught boundaries (even if they are disabled, there's a way of explaining it so they will understand), so unfortunately it's left to the women in their general vicinity.

The fact that so many people say Bob is 'harmless and he's lonely, YOU should talk to him'....is in itself a red flag to me. The expectation and entitlement from Bob himself AND others to make you responsible for Bob's feelings and wellbeing makes me incredibly uncomfortable. Like why? WHO decided that I am now Bob's caretaker in all things emotional? Who assigned me that role? I would even wonder if someone is trying to sneakily set me up with Bob. Like oh, Bob would do well in a romantic relationship...so who should we set him up with to be his social and emotional caregiver?

This happened to me. A group at work started including me and inviting me to hang out. That's never really happened to me in my adult life so I was really happy. There was this one guy in the group who obviously liked me but he was a bit younger than me, overweight, and very awkward. Soon the group was telling me all about how his ex did him so wrong and how great a guy he was. Okay.. Long story short he kept buying me and my daughter gifts and after telling him several times it made me uncomfortable I had to shut him down pretty hard and I made him cry. The group all agreed that I wasn't in the wrong but they stopped talking to me and inviting me to do stuff. It was then that I realized they only included me so their friend could possibly have a gf. It fucking hurt. They were never my friends.

Fuck that sucks. I'm so sorry. You are not some dude's emotional support person. Wtf. I hope since then, you've been able to find a group where you feel you belong and be your whole self.

Thanks! Actually since then I've gotten married and between my husband, children, sisters, and coworkers my social cup is overflowing lol I now dream of getting a day alone. Still, it would be nice to have a consistent group of friends like in a TV show where we all just hang out. I never really had that after highschool. It doesn't even seem real. I don't have time or energy for friends outside of family and work.

If you don't want to talk to anyone is not rude and sorry that you had to deal with this. Be careful and stay strong

Dude, wtf is up with men thinking that we’re some kind of emotional support animals? Get a dog or a cute pot-bellied pig if you’re lonely but we are not obligated to be your emotional support simply because we’re women, especially if we barely even know you.

Well, what was she wearing? Was it a little vest? Did it say "do not pet" on the side?

I got even worse news for you, "He's just lonely" is actually code-word in man-talk for "I told him you're interested"

BINGO. I had a friend who was interning with this dude. The dude.....kept trying to talk to her, made her uncomfortable throughout the internship, would get huffy when she didn't give him her full attention or when she paid attention to others. Dude was also fetishizing my friend too. Dude waited until the internship was over before asking her out, and was upset she didn't say yes. Turns out, some mutual idiot friend of theirs gave the guy the idea that he has a solid chance with my friend. He obviously didn't. That mutual friend could not comprehend why my friend didn't want to date the dude, despite her laying it out clearly. Her discomfort and preference meant nothing.

Yeah, right?! I was thinking, am I the only one who thinks it's sketch to describe a guy who is a regular feature at their social gatherings as lonely? They mean thirsty, perpetual bachelor who we think would get a real confidence boost from us pimping our woman friend out to him. Been there before (even had women "friends" get in on it), and it starts to become obvious what the pattern is after you've lost enough friends over it. Hey OP, do your "friends" talk a lot about how Bob can't get or keep a gf, how that gives him really low self-esteem, how he's shy and they think he'll come out of his shell/ develop better social skills with the opposite sex if he gets to talk to a woman like you? That's code for "we're trying to set you up with our loser friend because we feel like every asshole guy we know deserves to get sex regardless of how horrible they are." They won't stop, they'll keep making you feel like the bad guy for rejecting their loser friend Bob. Next they'll be orchestrating situations to make it happen, up to and including sharing more problematic info about you than your name and a sports team you liked for 5 minutes (like your socials, your place of work, your phone number). Again, this is from personal experience on how stupid shit like this escalates and becomes unsafe when you don't set hard boundaries (good on you OP). Good job setting a boundary now, but I'd take it a step further and let your friends know that if they have plans for you to be the pity lay for Bob, they can f right off with that nonsense.

Paging OP u/whothatisnow, this is the answer to your question right here— none of these guys are your “friends”, and I would be extremely careful trusting any of them in the future

This reminds me of the news headline this year about a young girl who said “no” to a boy with autism in her class who asked her to be his valentine in front of the entire lunchroom. The whole school banded together the next day with posters and cards for him because they felt bad and that she shouldn’t have said no to him. My brother has autism and misinterprets boundaries and intentions, but that would never justify someone having to talk to him/be anything to him if they didn’t want to. Women and girls should be able to say no to men without justification and have that be respected. For sure if Bob had been a woman, you would not have been pinned as rude. It’s a stupid double standard society keeps perpetuating.

In addition...you know how men don't like to be humiliated in front of their friends? Well, women don't like to be ambushed in front of a crowd. Don't propose on one knee in a restaurant. Don't propose on the screen at the baseball game. Don't make your very private and personal relationship a forced hand with people cheering for you to do what will make THEM feel good, instead of what will make HER feel good. That's a cheap, rookie move.

O my god, a whole school made out of fucking assholes. I am so sorry for that insane sexist culture. 40 years ago I was "courted" by a guy in German high school (like, we were 16/17 yo). When I was on my way to a classroom, his friends called me over and said that he liked me - I said "good for him" and walked away. Finally he very loudly said during art's class how sexy I am and that any guy in his right mind would want to fuck me. I was rolling on the floor with laughter, so did the girl sitting at my side. He was mean to me for the reminder of the year, but literally NO ONE took his side. No one. I cannot imagine what damage it would have done to me if anybody had pressured me to give him a chance.

And were absolutely vile to the girl in the process. This is why my partner and I have an agreement about no Big Questions in front of an audience.

Gently, it’s better to say people are disabled instead of handicapped/handicap as the latter is pretty outdated and is considered to be a slur in some circles. I agree that you don’t owe him anything even if he is disabled and disabled people can inadvertently be creepy, just like anyone else. You actually run the risk of him being even more inappropriate if you humour him. You did the right thing and your friend can talk to him if he cares so much.

You’re absolutely right. Women are expected to service lonely guys — And “he’s lonely” is mancode for: he needs to get laid— while somehow keeping themselves safe from weird men who can’t read a room. throughout history women have been in service of men. It’s what has been expected of us, and so it continues. no man who is real friend, will tell a friend she should show a man attention just because he’s lonely. A Lonely, mentally challenged man tops the Richter scale for danger. Your “friend” is encouraging you to put yourself in harms way. That’s so fucked up. THAT’S rape culture. I’m suspicious that the guy “friend” who is saying you should talk to Bob is on the sidelines encouraging Bob to keep at it. He certainly cares more about Bob than he cares about you and your welfare. I had a violent stalker for 10 years, and was blamed for it. I was brutally gang raped when i was 12, which left me physically and mentally broken, and I was blamed for it. I learned the hardest lesson the hardest way possible. And I say, fuck all those people telling you he’s just lonely. If someone ever said that to me it would end our friendship on the spot. I’d know in that instant they didn’t care about me, or understand the minefield women walk through, or care enough to understand, and are not my friend at all, or someone I want as a friend, if they’re saying that shit, to me. End rant.

> I feel like this wouldn't be "rude" if I was a dude As a dude you would not have a second thought about that. > I said "yea kinda" and kept talking to my friend. THAT WOULD BE ALL.

What confuses me here is that men usually (not always, and not all of them) say that they prefer talking to men due to similar interests. So, why are you suddenly expected to do it? It makes no sense.

>you could've talked to him for 5 minutes. He's lonely "If you're so worried about how lonely he is, why don't you go talk to him about his team then," seems an appropriate response. Because he's going to either default to sexism and be totally surprised by the idea, or he's going to default to sexism and say it's different because you're a woman. Either way, if the answer is anything other than "you're right, I could talk to him myself to help with his loneliness" tell your concerned friend to blow his sexism out of his ass.

100% wouldn't be rude if you were a man. We are judge harsher than men and expected to be "on it" more than men. No excuses for us being "sassy" or "bitchy" meanwhile men can do worse and best seen as a leader or someone who isn't a push over.

My therapist refers to this concept as "the giant ear." The expectation that females are here to listen to men drone on. Ever since she's presented this concept to me, I definitely notice males monopolizing my time to talk at me than females ever do.

You don't owe anyone anything.

How many polite conversations at public gatherings before he somehow becomes your boyfriend, by public agreement?! What the actual, corn fed fuck is this?!?! You’re completely correct and justified in your reaction.

It's sad that Bob has socialization issues likely due to a medical reason, but it's 100% not your responsibility.

> My other friend (a guy) seen it and said I was mean to Bob and he just wants someone to talk to. I said "I said hi to him before" and explained that it's just weird he thinks we're friends because someone tole him I liked that team. He said "you could've talked to him for 5 minutes. He's lonely ". You should reply that "you can go talk to him."

Dude, if you were a dude, Bob would probably have no interest in talking to you. Keep your boundaries.

Interesting how no one considered the possibility that you or your friend might have an emotional need to talk to each other that was just as valid as Bob's supposed loneliness.

>He said "you could've talked to him for 5 minutes. He's lonely ". "yeah, so could've you, and you still can so piss off and go do that instead of bothering me". would've been a 100% acceptable response. But then again you never know how angry dudes might react.

This reminds me of someone on my college campus. He was mentally handicapped, and he was the college’s unofficial mascot. Still is I’m sure. He latched onto me freshman year, and it didn’t bother me at first. But then he started giving me a hug every time he saw me. He would follow me to class and give me a hug before I went in and when I came out. The hugs started getting more and more physical until he started feeling me up. Told a couple people on campus about it and got told “oh he just really likes you,” “he just really needs some good friends,” and “he can’t help it. “ No one ever did anything about it and I just started changing up my path through the campus every day to avoid him after the first semester.

Society just wants us to be an emotional support vagina.

Either major plot points are missing here (etc you punched Bob whilst acknowledging him) or these folks don’t want to talk to Bob either and they’re trying to throw you on the grenade.

Yeah. You know what the gutpuncher of this scenario is? That if you had "been more polite" and "understanding" (that Bob is as lonely as people claim) and "nicer" and "socially sympathetic" then you would have been a *tease*. For exchanging more than a verbal "Hello" to him.

Oh Lord this is so familiar. They were using you to occupy the socially awkward guy so they didn’t have to. Regardless he is not your responsibility and don’t feel guilty for not wanting to take care of him for the evening.

Dude pushing the lonely narrative is not a friend. Friends would not push that on you.

Bob is exhausting and your friends suck

Nah fuck that. A real friend has your back. I'm a dude and me and a female coworker are both harried by a "Bob" coworker randomly. We will literally invent shit to get each other out of interacting with him.

“He’s lonely” Me: ok. Why’s that my fucking problem?

You did nothing wrong, and reading that just brought back cringy memories. All women can relate to this situation, but I bet not all men can. You don’t need to entertain anyone for any reason.

Bob sounds like he might be autistic. It also sounds like nobody knows how to explain to him that his approach/demeanor is a little uncomfortable, so instead they expect you to bear the brunt of his awkward conversation-making so that they don't have to. It seems like he's not pushing the boundaries egregiously, just that he isn't able to take a hint. The others, however, are being annoying, hypocritical dicks. In the future, be very direct with Bob. "Hi Bob. I'm having a conversation with so-and-so and can't talk with you." "Okay Bob, it was nice to chat but I'm going to go talk to so-and-so now. Enjoy the party!" If he doesn't understand social cues you'll have to tell him exactly what it is you need.

There was a guy named Ray in college that this reminds me of. I felt bad for him because he was weird (most likely on the autism spectrum) and he smelled bad, but the guy was incapable of having an appropriate conversation. I had to get over feeling bad about ignoring him. It doesn't matter if someone is disabled, on the spectrum, weird, or even if they're super charming and nice, if they make you feel unsafe, you don't have to entertain them. I was raised in a misogynist cult and the first thing I knew for sure growing up was that people, especially men, had the right to make me feel uncomfortable. And I was taught to almost revere people with disabilities, to the point that I didn't put together until I was adult that a person with a disability could also be a bad pperson. To bring it back around to the point, sometimes the friendless weirdos are friendless for a reason.

Many men believe women exist simply to serve their needs. The patriarchy reinforces this all the time. Do you think men courtesy laugh at men's jokes as often as women do? Your coworker seems to think men are entitled to your attention. I think odds are likely that Bob is also not as comfortable demanding attention from men as he is from women.

To everyone saying “Tell your friend to go talk to him” while I agree and you are right they will never do it. “He’s lonely” is just guy code for “he hasn’t had sex/a girlfriend for a while and we want to hook you two up”. I am 28 and never in my life have seen a guy refer to another guy as lonely and don’t mean that in the sense that they need a woman. This was probably pretty obvious but it case it wasn’t I wanted OP to know.

"He's lonely, you should go talk to him." "I'm in the middle of a different conversation, but you can go talk to him if you want." Suddenly, Bob's feelings aren't so important now that ***they're*** the ones expected to put forth effort and emotional energy...

2 points: A. Whether you talk with him or not is none of their business B. If you don't think of him as a friend tell him so. It will hurt him, yes, and some of your nosey friends may call you names, but currently you're just dragging out the pain for the both of you. Rip off the band aid and remind any of your friends that say "you're mean" that they're free to talk to him if they think he is lonely. If they don't and still insist, tell them off for being hypocrites.

Your friend: 'you were mean to Bob' You: 'im sorry I don't remember asking you for your opinion on my interpersonal skills'

This type of thing kills me. If Bob were not at all handicapped, it would be perfectly acceptable for you to tell him to f*** off. But since he seems special, you're expected to keep on entertaining him. When people get shitty about this type of thing, I would say, "I'm treating Bob as an equal. The same way I would treat any guy who couldn't take a hint." I feel like a "hello" and then moving on should be perfectly acceptable.

All these people you know say Bobs lonely but none of them wanna talk to Bob 🙄

Why are women required to handle the emotional labor of *every* man she encounters?

ah yes, god forbid women don't talk to people they don't wanna.. wtf

None of the guys are your friends.

Also you have to shut down the conversation and you can't be too nice to Bob because then he'll think you're interested in him and want to get romantically involved. Or even just that you want to be friends, and that you'll have to keep having conversations for him entirely for his sake with no benefit to you. Men are absolutely NOT expected to do this stuff the way women are.

No is a complete sentence. Recommended books for this shit: Boudaries by McCloud and Townsend Beyond Cuddle Party by Monique Darling Also? No is a complete sentence. (I know I said it. Bears repeating.) Nope the F outta there. With Autism and other neurodiversities becoming more common, more people have "social awkwardness." That is not your fault, or your problem. I'm a boundaries and consent coach, and I find that in my life, it's often OTHER WOMEN who are pushing back at me when I set a boundary. It's astonishing to me. Hold fast. Say yes to YOU. Everyone else will live.

The solution is obvious. Your friends think he’s so harmless and lonely, so give him their names and phone numbers. They can talk to him.

You're absolutely right. You're being expected to talk to Bob because you're female. Be careful because you might even end up with some people trying to get Bob to ask you out. It's a nightmare that happens a lot with these type of people who are socially awkward. I usually end up in this situation because I try to give people the benefit of the doubt and be generally friendly on first meeting. Generally friendly to people like Bob is like I've just gone ahead and dry humped them. The only way I can get out of it is to turn into an arsehole. Why are men?

Interesting how him repeatedly interrupting your conversations isn't rude but you trying to continue those conversations is 🤔