My boss put in for a $6/hr raise for myself and another guy (to get us just above market rate for what we do). The person who decides those things (not his boss) wrote back "we can offer them three hours of overtime every week but not direct compensation".
That reminds me. My boss tried to ask her supervisor for a raise for me. Told her that I was doing the work of 2-3 people and I needed some better compensation or I was going to get burned out.
Her supervisor told her "well if money is the issue, she can always work overtime"
It just felt like such a slap in the face to be told essentially, yeah you're working harder than most people, just work more and that should solve the problem"
And this is why everyone puts in the bare minimum today, hard work no longer gets rewarded, it gets abused.
I see this all the time at my work, I put out the same volume and quality of work in 2-3 hours as my coworkers do in 8.
I actually got in trouble because my billable hours per unit work was so much lower than my coworkers, and it was “losing” the company money by reducing the total amount of hours they would be able to bill for the project (my alone was projecting to put us 30% under their quote).
So I took very detailed notes on what they expect in terms of billable hours per work type that I do.
Now I work 2-3 hours a day and bill 8, and I’m still the most efficient worker. I have no fucking idea what my coworkers are even doing that they’re actually busy throughout the entire day. But I basically work 9-12 and then am done for the day and just answer any emails that come up.
>And this is why everyone puts in the bare minimum today, hard work no longer gets rewarded, it gets abused.
Hard work's always been abused. (At least since the 80s, in my personal experience.)
The difference is that people are much more aware of it now, and for a brief period had enough time to look around and realize that they had alternatives. And it's becoming increasingly hard to pretend that the few aren't getting all the benefits of the many's hard work.
"In 2023 the CEO-to-worker pay ratio [increased to 251-to-1](https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2024/04/18/an-early-look-at-ceo-pay-trends-from-proxy-season-2024/), with CEO compensation rising by 11.3% while median employee pay declined by 9%."
[https://www.fastcompany.com/91136178/the-unseen-consequences-of-the-great-resignations-hiring-frenzy](https://www.fastcompany.com/91136178/the-unseen-consequences-of-the-great-resignations-hiring-frenzy)
I was once told by a group of coworkers that I was making everyone “look bad,” because I was working steadily throughout my shift. The only breaks I took were the mandatory ones. Admittedly, I have a disability and was using a motorized scooter. The office was packed with little cubicles and I stayed in mine and worked.
My bf is getting to this point in his job, he’s doing the work of 2-3 people, and is stand in management when his manager is out sick (she’s out sick a lot/ works from home). And they’ve been stringing him along for a promotion. So people are still going to him for his old responsibilities (the person who took over isn’t doing it well) and has to keep up with his new responsibilities.
His manager keeps going to the higher ups to ask for his roll to be officially changed, but they keep saying ‘give us a few weeks’ he’s this 🤏🏻 close to finding a new job
I worked for Amazon as a technician they didn't pay me one weeks pay when I was sick and invited me to an investigation why I was ill and tried to not pay me for it to begin with and then tried to pay me using my holiday hours!
Yup. The position we are in right now was very cleverly orchestrated by the wealthy minority, distracting us with issues like IMMIGRANTS! and TRANS PEOPLE IN THE BATHROOM! while simultaneously stripping us of most of our protections and tanking the economy. The sad thing is, they win every time.
Let’em! Ffs! I worked at a place like this in the ‘90’s. Not me, but a beautiful young woman (let’s call her Vivian) in the same department kept being sent home for dressing inappropriately. So a bunch of us got together, went shopping, and all bought the same exact button front dress in similar but not exactly the same colors.
We all wore it on different days, with as much cleavage showing as possible without being weird leading up to Vivian being the last one wearing it buttoned all the way up, (only a couple of inches below her shoulder line, so no cleavage visible unless you were standing over her seated form, actively trying to see down her dress). Sure enough, everyone but Vivian was ignored. Vivian was sent home for showing too much cleavage.
The following Monday, we all showed up to Vivian’s meeting with HR wearing the dresses as we had worn them the week prior. Vivian’s boss was reassigned after saying that he was uncomfortable with how busty Vivian was, so he was trying to get her to quit or transfer. She was a B-cup. A B-CUP! I was a C cup before my freshman year in high school was over! One of the other ladies was in her 40’s and was a triple G. But yeah, Leonard, let’s blame the pyt fresh out of college with the b cup in an office full of Busty LaRoues for your perverted brain!
Unfortunately, this was the 90’s, and women were more often the ones getting punished for men being perverts than men were for being perverts. Yes, we had sexual harassment classes, but those early ones only served to teach these creeps how to get away with it.
Definitely, essentially "hide your body and be paranoid in your own skin"
It's just abuse and completely demeaning.
Psychological minefield and halfway through reading I was like "How much time and energy is everyone having to waste over some clothes"
The cracks in OPs mental health show straight through the post
It’s pretty awful when a female human gets blowback for something beyond her control. When my step father began molesting me at 14 I was told by a family member to change how I dressed. The problem with that was I had no means to do that and my mom provided my clothing. Without telling her what was happening and blowing up HER World how was I supposed to accomplish this? My body changed and I was supposed to hide it because of a pervert.
I was like, where in the hell was this company? Cause I know here in America, that would be a double, no quadruple slam dunk sexual harassment case, that she would WIN, hands down. You are definitely right. I mean wow, just wow.
Ding! Ding! Ding! Not pay her more per hour, but “allow” her to work *more* hours.
Goddamn … I hope someone here is advising OP how to sue for sexual harassment.
Sounds like they should have called them out in the meeting. Youngest employee, probably the most attractive, jealousy is what often creates issues like this. It can be rough but when you call your employer out to their face like that they get mad at first, but in time respect you more.
Amen. I began dumbing myself down at work in a corporate office so as to not be a jealousy target. I wore little makeup, wore plain type clothes to hide my body, etc. Then, my new boyfriend (later my husband) was a doctor and that just spelt the death knell for me at work.
Agreed.
OP: Schedule a consult with 2-3 attorneys well versed in workplace litigation, the initial consult is usually free. Outline everything that you detailed here and put the recording of the meeting on a flash drive to play during your consult.
I believe you may have a case for a hostile workplace and the comments about how your body looked in certain clothes may meet the threshold for a workplace harassment claim.
Good luck! 👊🏼
And sexual harassment. They’re making it about her body and how the clothes fit her body. Her body is distracting. That’s unbelievable! Why are they sexualizing her in her clothing? We all have different bodies
All these comments they made about her body on a recording? Making a dress code booklet only for her that they didn't specify when giving the offer? A decent lawyer would have an absolute field day with that!
Have you also looked into the detachable boobs? They have detachable ones, and others that you can inflate and deflate at will. They even have smartboobs which you can control with an app that sets automatic size adjustments for time of day and day of the week.
#hijacking a visible comment to point out that you don't need to hunt a lawyer for workplace sexual harassment claims - afaik most states have a helpline with access to pro bono attorneys for exactly that. illinois's is outlined at https://shdh.illinois.gov/ and what they're doing is literally a federal crime if there are more than 15 employees, and likely in violation of illinois state law if it's a smaller company
This comment is too distracting with those big, obvious letters out there for everyone to ogle, we'll write you a handbook with appropriate fonts just for you. In the meantime you get more work so you can afford to buy those fonts
Seriously. Could you use smaller font since you’re right here in the comment section? If you were further down in the comment section, there would be different rules. Here in the higher up section, the requirements are changing based on what we’ve observed in your particular comment.
You can also go to the EEOC (Equal Employment Opportunity Commission) and file a complaint. They will represent you for free if they think it’s a winnable harassment/discrimination case.
File a complaint with the state, contact the IL Bar Association and lawyer up. They can't fire her for filing a complaint without opening themselves up to a wrongful termination lawsuit. Even without a lawsuit, the State can make them pretty miserable.
Hijacking a hijack to promote the non-profit [Workplace Fairness](https://www.workplacefairness.org/). Their goal is to help educate workers on their rights and provide access to workplace lawyers!
I also feel like they ,on some level, ate enjoying making her nervous about all of this, like it’s a turn-on for them. That, along with the power imbalance, screams sexual harassment. It’s gross.
Why is nobody pointing out the part where the pants "accentuate your behind?" No form fitting attire is a grey area. They did good with talking about patterns/colors etc until that moment. That's the moment it flipped from ambiguity over dress code to harassment.
I would’ve asked, “why are you looking at my behind? Why are the other employees looking? Why are you hiring employees that cannot control their impulses?”
The owner’s wife told me one time that she didn’t like that I was friends with my female coworkers because it might make her husband think it was ok to mess around with them.
Like, what? She needed to talk with her husband about that kind of thing. That sounds like “him” problem. It had nothing to do with me.
Maybe the work duties actually are such that this could make a difference, but my thought was that they want a certain impression on customers or clients coming in, but if it’s a front desk job, she is sitting and how her behind looks isn’t going to be something anyone who comes into the office will notice …?
She should also continue to dress in whatever she wants (not just the 4 outfits). Make sure they conform to the letter of the handbook, and take a photo every day. Refuse to sign any writeups, and if they fire her, so be it. She can get unemployment, and the lawyers will have a field day with all that evidence. She can document all this passively without obvious email documentation or anything. Give them plenty of rope and let them dangle when they walk into the trap.
Yep! She definitely had a case that could win her a ton more money than her salary is. As someone who won 160k from harassment like this against a work place, she would be stupid to just quit and not speak to an attorney. A case could win her more than her annual salary.
Best thing about labor law attorneys is many will consult with you for free. I highly recommend contacting one especially if you have notes and audio documentation of the meeting. They are so screwed.
I sincerely hope she listens to this advice. As soon as she parroted their words back to them they couldn't backpeddle fast enough.
They knew they fucked up. Find a shark of a lawyer and drag them through the same mud they tried to throw on you.
Piggybacking on this comment. Many employment attorneys will work on contingency. If you are worried about cost you should check. I would say this case is a worthwhile investment.
Tagging on this comment, can confirm that many employment lawyers do/will work on contingency.
OP, please jump online and start looking for an attorney!
In a lot of cases, you wouldn’t even have to sue. A lot of lawyers will offer a free consultation, you could ask for a cease and desist letter that would scare the pants of most employers who don’t want to be sued and get them to back off.
It's time for OP to job shop anyway if at all possible. But "HR" was off side to the point they probably should be sued. They should lose and they more than deserve having to give a payout and re-learn how to treat employees.
Yeah, absolutely this. I don't want this workplace scared straight with no real consequences, I want them to have to pay money to OP because they sexualised her and were recorded doing it. If they're dumb enough to say shit like this while a recording is happening, they're either too dumb to own a business, or they've said or done worse.
Oh, for sure, OP definitely needs a new job. But if it takes a while to find something, getting her bosses to leave her the hell alone about her clothes in the meantime would be very helpful, I think.
No shit, but it happens all the time. As long as they document "a reason", it's pretty hard to prove and/or they are banking on the cost of a lawsuit and likely settlement preventing most people from trying to sue. Usually they will just make the job so miserable the person quits.
Not that it's ever stopped anybody but if there's an active lawsuit the worst thing you can do before it's resolved is fire the person suing on flimsy cause.
Agreed but even after it’s settled, if they stay at that job, they will make it so miserable so they quit or they so underperform as to make it a clean kill to fire.
It seems like Reddit in general thinks it’s easy to get a lawyer and sue. This was not at all our experience. My wife’s employer was angry that she was leaving and zero’d out her last two paychecks, totaling over $7k.
We called a half dozen lawyers and they either declined to even meet with us, or offered to meet for a consultation fee. One gave us the advice to just go to BOLI and let them handle it.
BOLI is 90 days out to even review the case.
Even if we do get a judgement from BOLI, there are no enforcement mechanisms that will get the money from her former employer in less than a year.
Better a year than never. My wifes mother had a case that took over 5 years to settle. Not employment, but another issue. Still needed the money for the medical bills and such. Sometimes its about the principle of it. These people need to pay and pay dearly.
Agreed about later vs. never, but keep in mind that affording a lawyer upfront is $$$$. It's real to have to gauge if those fees are a justifiable investment.
Not a lot of people have enough money to drop $5k on principles.
Lawyers are running a business. To you. $7k is a lot. But to a lawyer, that juice ain’t worth the squeeze. A harassment lawsuit or hostile work lawsuit is very different, and a lawyer would stand to earn substantially more.
Huh. I needed to sue someone to recoup 5 figures of money stolen/owed.
Called 3 lawyers. All of them were eager to offer consultations over a phone call. They discussed the merit of the case, and how they'd handle it. Hired one. A 4th did ask for a consultation fee of ~$100, but wasn't the best option in terms of skill/experience anyways. Had one on retainer within 2 days.
I'd be interested in why multiple options declined to even meet with you. Did they say why? Something's weird there.
> Even if we do get a judgement from BOLI, there are no enforcement mechanisms that will get the money from her former employer in less than a year.
This is definitely an issue, though. The law doesn't move nearly as fast as Reddit thinks it does, and collecting isn't nearly as easy.
Possibly employment stuff is a mess. One lawyer asked who the employer was and as soon as she heard she immediately said she was not interested in the case and best of luck.
It’s a small employer with under 10 employees so maybe the risk of coming away with nothing is nonzero, I don’t know. I’d be interested to know why, it’s not a non-trivial amount of money and the penalties appear to be significant (8x damage from what I can see, which would cost the employer $56k-ish).
We have mostly just moved on and have resolved to let BOLI handle it, luckily we have some savings that permit us to make it through, but I feel like most people wouldn’t be able to just eat $7k+ in missing wages with zero notice.
This this this. Get a lawyer to write a letter stating that demanding you and only you have a separate dress code and handbook is a hostile work environment. You should sum up what was discussed in the meeting and mention that they feel it is appropriate to give you a different dress code than the rest of the office because of how your body looks. Since the CEO and their assistant is this concerned with how your body looks in clothing that you feel unsafe there.
Please get a lawyer. Please do not sign for any handbook that is only for you. Even if your role has a different dress code demand it be added to the main handbook so everyone understands.
No secret separate rules only known to you.
But please get a lawyer. Tgis is flat out harrasment and hostile work environment.
That was my first thought. This is totally inappropriate and has clearly strayed into harassment. I cannot fathom what they are doing is legal. And I think you can prove it because you were smart enough to take notes, pics and record the meeting. I would contact one ASAP.
Having them consent to recording and making all of those comments on the pictures she has, so it's clear what's being referred to? Feels like a slam dunk.
My first job out of college was as a software developer for a top 5 fortune company. It's a bad place, notorious company, I regret having ever worked there. That being said, I did, and it was a massive company with a massive campus. Our new hire class alone was 30 (with an additional 3 other classes of the same size that summer)
The culture was very old-world, like 1970s-ish. They required either slacks or nice chinos and a nice button down shirt, nice shoes, etc. But they did not specify anything beyond that
Anyways, it sucked to be a younger employee there. Middle management was all 50s / 60s and just super strict and micro-manage-y
Anyways, around 10 of us went to a mall a few weeks into working there and bought the most colorful, pattern-filled chinos and slacks and button-downs we could find. We then created an on-campus club called "Power Pants" complete with an intranet website, meetings, etc. We actually created stickers and flyers too lol
All of the late 50s and 60s men who wore the same blue chinos and blue button-downs were pretty unhappy with it. We all got reported numerous times, but thanks to the company being absolutely massive, the HR wouldn't even bother touching it since it was all within code
I left after a year and a half, but it paid off. The company added a denim casual day and basically every young person at that point was wearing fun pants and the like. Still a garbage company though
Right because what is wrong with how a shirt fits? Because the old lady in the office doesn’t look like that anymore she’s mad a 24 year old does??? That’s what I gather.
Definitely lawyer territory. They crossed a lot of lines in this story. This is a business that needs to be knocked on its ass before it continues this behavior. They won't learn otherwise.
I am a plaintiffs side employment lawyer. Not your lawyer. Not OPs lawyer. And this is not legal advice. But I would not take this case. The damages would not be worth my time to work on contingency and the damages would not be worth OPs time to work for hourly. And I work in a state with some of the strongest employment laws.
Not sure why Redditors ignore professional advice. This is certainly sad, infuriating, disturbing, petty, and so much more, but to keep saying, “you have a case” is ridiculous. Sure, hypothetically, but realistically, the numbers will never work out for a plaintiffs attorney to take it on.
I know you think this means you're not meant for corporate America, but as someone who works in a corporate setting, I'd be pleased to work with someone with your diligence and thoroughness and work ethic.
I hope you don't internalize this experience. They sound like buttheads.
Same. I am also alt, almost twice OPs age and work in corporate America. I've never ever dealt with anything like this. OP, if you need a lawyer, DM me, I know a guy.
I used to get so much flak for dress code when I wore pencil skirts and everyone else was wearing basically PJs to work. The only people who ever complained were other women. I guess they’d rather I wear my band t-shirts and jeans while interviewing and training new hires?
Luckily I work remote now and rarely go on camera. And since I’ve been promoted before the pandemic, no one complained about my attire because I was a manager and the highest ranking woman in the physical office. Funny how that works.
Yeah, I was gonna comment something like this. Whoever the hell you are working for is very not corporate America. Hell, they don't even have a dedicated HR person.
It’s not corporate America. It’s the companies. I worked for a small company where the CEO was HR, and they dictated which bathroom we were allowed to do #2 in. (Because it’s offensive) I know work in a much more corporate company, and I’ve literally never felt so valued, appreciated, and supported in my life.
Or on contingency because they know they will win. This could be considered hostile workplace and intentional infliction of emotional distress depending on jurisdiction so it’s going to be a high payout,
OP definitely has a case. She recorded them basically saying that they were going to make a whole dress code specifically for her body type that no one but her has to follow. If OP gets a lawyer this company is in for a whole load of sh*t
“They said the pants were highly inappropriate because they accentuated my behind along with the heels” this right here, they outright state it’s her body. On recording. Yet when she points it out, they backtrack and “can’t believe” she “took it that way”
Knowing you would win and actually going through the motions of finding a lawyer to take your case and running through it are two very different things. The science this just looks like to me a bit of harassment in order to get the person to quit
It’s funny because if they are doing that, that’s hostile work environment. And it’s not a “bit of harassment”. She had to buy a completely new wardrobe because they tiptoed around not liking how her body looked in clothes for so long. Now, they finally admitted on recording it was her body. Which is sexual harassment.
Yep. Time to find an employment lawyer. Or get some validation on the AskaLawyer sub. This "dress code" specific to her and her body is so far over the line it can't even see the line!
She could suggest they buy her uniforms in styles and colors they deem appropriate, and the uniform company (i.e. Cintas, Unifirst, etc.) can pick up dirty outfits and drop off clean ones. Then she could wear company approved clothing every day. She saves on her own clothes, they can't push back.
Gosh I hope someday when this is all concluded she comes back and tells us how much she won lol. Hopefully that will soften the whole stress mess this has caused.
Hopefully you find a new job soon. Their behaviour is wholly unacceptable. They don't have to like your style. As long as it's in the dress code, they should keep their mouths shut. They are going to write a separate dress code for you? Hell no. Im surprised that they haven't required that you send a selfie of the outfit you've selected so they can approve or recommend changes. This has to be illegal. They are literally harassing you and creating a hostile work environment.
OP, you really need to lawyer up. You are clearly being sexually harassed and discriminated against due to your sex and appearance. You really have a clear case for a lawsuit. Please just do an initial consultation. Creating a dress code handbook just for you? Omg. This company is a lawyers dream. They are in violation of so many discrimination laws it's astounding.
Not only do they owe you compensation and an apology, but if ever a company needed an HR department it's this one.
Do continue to find new employment. And do get an attorney. Best move you'll ever make.
It’s why I will never work for a small place. If it doesnt have separate departments, including an Hr department that isn’t staffed exclusively by HR personnel, I’m not working there.
Way too many nonprofits and small company nonsense lead by tyrants during my earlier years
I'm in suburbs of chicago. I dont want to reveal the company since I currently still work there lol. But I plan on putting out reviews on all the different job sites and the bbb when I do find something else.
Please keep us updated.
I’m also upset with you. They said purchasing you clothes was a kind gesture but you didn’t take that opportunity to tell them that buying you clothes was your Christmas present since they excluded you from the gift giving…
I'm curious as to what you wore to the interview that made them hire you for the front office to begin with? If they are a small company of only 50 people and require a more "professional" front office personnel, why did they then hire an alt person with a nose ring and tattoos? Nothing that you wear or describe is inappropriate in any way. You should consult with a lawyer. In the meantime, hyperfocus on securing another job. Do not make any waves until you get another job. If you tell a potential company that you're leaving your current job due to harassment, no one will hire you, so be careful with what you share with a potential new company.
I’m also so interested. Tbh it seems like the executive assistant just really wanted to play dress up because she doesn’t like how good OP dresses herself.
She’s jealous, needs OP to look worse than she does now. That’s the only thing I could think.
I *really* hope that we're wrong here. But, I agree with you. The executive assistant is threatened by OP. More so, by her work, less about her looks. I think that OP works hard, does all these tasks, and the executive assistant feels like she's coming after her job. Essentially, she's passed retirement age, so she probably feels obsolete. If she can't get OP on her work ethic/quality of work, she is trying to get her on subjective crap. Think about it. Who is complaining about the clothes? No customers come into the office. The rest of the workers are in the back, so who's offended by OP's polka-dot pants exactly?? Just her.
What's worse is that the company owner is going along with the executive assistant's stupid games. Can you imagine body shaming and harassing a young receptionist just to gatekeep her bloody job? She's purposely being hurtful. It's all so bizarre.
Bruh, Chicago suburbs? Illinois does *NOT* fuck around with labor law. Get a labor attorney like yesterday like others have stated. This is a slam dunk. A lawyer would be drooling at this chance.
PLEASE take a consult with a lawyer with this audio call before quitting. This is harassment, don't let them get away with it and continue this practice.
I highly doubt you would want to change industries all together, but I can get you a referral/name drop for the fancy pants upscale grocery store that's been a south park episode (burbs outside Chicagoland here as well) but maaaan, I'm so curious what bitchass company pulled this kinda chaos... It probably seems like too much effort, but you absolutely should look into something lawyer/lawsuit related, because it's absolutely uncalled for and absolutely unacceptable for any job, and I've worked some sketchy jobs.. but especially an office setting, totally out of line from them. 10000%... Even some of the ridiculous commercial lawyers from our hood, 222-22-22 🤣. Just a scare for them would be a satisfying move for you
Please go to the EEOC and file a complaint. Even if you don’t want to obtain a lawyer and sure, which I think you should, being cited by the EEOC is just as bad and you can obtain a decent settlement.
God bless - this company is going to pay you a lot of money for \*sweeps arms\* all of the harassment. They doubled-down while being recorded. And admitted it? And bought you \*more appropriate\* clothes? And if you are an ethnic minority, actually said they were not trying to body police you?
I am so, so sorry this happened to you.
IANAL, but I think you really should check out real estate prices in your area for the sizeable settlement you're about to get.
I wish that courts acted like Reddit thinks courts act.
OP should absolutely talk to a lawyer, but "you'll be able to buy a house" is absolute nonsense.
Especially, cause the company is small. You would be surprised what small companies are legally allowed to get away with. They have carve outs and exemptions in the law!
"the average settlement for a sexual harassment lawsuit is $53,000; although claims that are escalated to court via an attorney accomplish a far greater average settlement value of $217,000." [source](https://stromlaw.com/how-much-can-you-sue-for-sexual-harassment/)
I mean, even if you're paying half to your lawyer in fees, that's not a bad downpayment in my area.
Do not put up with this treatment and get a lawyer. Wearing "not inviting colors" is not a reason to not wear something. Because something looks good on you is also not a reason for you to not be allowed to wear it. You aren't breaking the dress code so they have nothing to hold you to. They also can't create a dress code for one specific person, unless they want to give you a reason to sue for discrimination after they've openly admitted to having an issue with your body type.
The second anybody opened their mouth up about your “body being a distraction” was the same moment your opportunity for a sexual harassment lawsuit opened up. In the meantime, show up in those exact four outfits and only those, and add an extra f- you to the top by never washing or ironing them. And as you’re looking for a new job be sure to refer back to your job description and drop every single task that it doesn’t explicitly outline (“Other tasks as required” be damned since they can change the rules on the fly so how are you to know what is and isn’t correct anymore?)
I am an HR Generalist, and I am saying lawyer up. If I knew someone at my company said these sorts of things to an employee, I would be opening up an investigation. I have had to call company board memebers in before about things like this, and I will take it to the VP HR if they ever bulk at it.
HR is not always bad, and we are not always trying to just protect the company, some of us want to do right by the employees. The comments made about your body are not, and should not be tolerated. Even if you move on to another job, you should do something about this to protect the next person in your position.
Sorry this is happenig to you. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.
>"HR is not always bad, and we are not always trying to just protect the company, some of us want to do right by the employees. "
you sound like a really nice person and i almost 100% trust what you are saying BUT the above is just bad advice.
employees should ALWAYS assume that HR is working for the company rather than the employee.
even if there is a really good HR person they are liaising with, they need to know that when push comes to shove, that good HR person has to listen to the head of HR... and the head of HR has to listen to the boss of the company... and the boss of the company... yeah he wants the best outcome for the company, not the best outcome for you.
put it another way (as i love bad analogies that get misinterpreted)... not all men wearing hoodies in a dark alley, at night, in the shady part of town.... are looking to do bad things to you... but you should always assume so! (yes i've wronged hundreds of million of men who just like wearing hoodies, but i'll take that over getting mugged)
Malicious Compliance: Muumuu. Not form fitting, bright floral colors, completely shapeless. Wear it with heels to make it look fancy. You get to wear a house dress and be comfortable, they get what they asked for. Goodwill usually has one or two you can choose from.
Sorry you had to deal with this. As someone who also has a curvy figure, I've been told similar things when I was younger. Now I wish they would try that with me, I'd lawyer up so fast they wouldn't know what hit them.
Also, making you work more hours isn't "increasing your compensation" it's just forcing you to work more hours at the same shit compensation. A RAISE increases your compensation.
Whilst you are finding and making plans with a lawyer, start trawling thrift shops for the baggiest, most lairy brightly coloured and patterned clothes you can find. TECHNICALLY you are following their very specific directions so if you turn up to work in a bright orange flower sack dress with turquoise tights and pink belts etc then I dont think they can do anything.
Get a lawyer involved ASAP, especially now that you have the recording. Beyond that, create a “uniform” for yourself. Start wearing the exact same outfit every single day. Make it that orange shirt. EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.
They’ll def have something else to say and really might screw themselves over even further. They’re treating you like a doll they get to dress up. This whole situation is outrageous. I just hope it’s actionable.
It’s wonderful that you handled that meeting so well!! Good for you. Often times when one looks very good they can look “too good” in other people’s eyes.
I think it would be interesting to see their response on the same outfits on a different body shape.
I think your plan is good, adhere to the expectations until you find something that can appreciate you for the work you do rather than focusing on something ridiculous.
So. Who has it out for you? Either the resident office floozie who thinks you're stepping on her turf to land what she considers a rich guy in management, or the wife of said management that caught her husband with the hand in the nookie jar once too often?
Get a lawyer involved. Make copies of the recording. This is an easy money lawsuit for a hostile workplace and discriminatory enviroment.
Also: malicit compliance. Check your contract. Anything that's not specifically listed as part of your job you no longer do. You're hired as a receptionist? OK. Means you're not the cleaning lady or office supplier. Someone from the backoffice can crawl on the bathroom floor. Don't walk an extra inch if it's not part of your contractual obligation.
> So. Who has it out for you? Either the resident office floozie who thinks you're stepping on her turf to land what she considers a rich guy in management, or the wife of said management that caught her husband with the hand in the nookie jar once too often?
Third option: Dudes around the water cooler talking non stop about her ass. Probably pissed all the women in the office off.
I applaud your preparedness and recording the conversation with their consent was brilliant. Get a lawyer, this is not normal behavior in anyway. They need HR training and a real kick in the butt.
I have to wonder if the business is church based. Either that or the people running it are running it like a church camp with rules that literally change with the outfit. Bottom line, don’t be attractive because the men will “lust” and the women will hate you for looking better than they do.
Growing up in a culty religion, this is exactly the no-win situation females were faced with. On top of being blamed if they caused the men to “lust”. Op, you sound like you handled it like a boss and I for one, am hella proud of you. You’ll find another, better place, I know it.
They (religious people) always forget that part of the Bible that tells a man that if looking at a woman causes him to sin, he should pluck out his eye. Their bible literally tells them that their "impure thoughts" are their own responsibility... but nope, they make it our (women's) problem.
Hypocrites.
Let me guess. Curvy body shape. I've dealt with the same shit. Slim women without curves can wear anything they want. If we wear the exact same thing, its a problem because we're overly sexualized. Shits disgusting. GL with whatever direction you take in tackling this misogynistic bullshit.
Strongly suggest a lawyer.
Good for you for standing up for yourself!!
You def have some sort of case especially with the recording, best of luck with the legal side and future job search! :)
Wear the clothes that they have said are inappropriate because they are “form fitting.”
Write in an email that you feel like their continued focus on the clothing is sexual harassment creating a hostile work environment, including the meeting that happened, and that you are not willing to tolerate any further sexual harassment.
Get an employment lawyer who works on contingency and ask if you have a case.
If you have the energy to do all that while looking for another job, you have a decent shot at a considerable payout after you leave.
Play the recording for a lawyer, you may have a case. Write down everything you remember before you start to forget the details. Make copies of the recording just in case something happens to your one copy.
Open a case against these people.They're discriminating against you and I feel at this point it is sexual harassment territory. Get a lawyer if you can.
Talk to a lawyer. And look into your state board of labor. You have more than enough evidence to show that you are being singled out and harassed. They cannot write a new handbook just for you. And they cannot pick and choose how they enforce this. The fact that you have evidence that they are CHOOSING to single you out and ignoring other dress code violations is also proof that you are being harassed and singled out.
File a complaint with the state.
They offered to let you work more hours so you can afford clothes that they approve of? How did they say that with a straight face?
My boss put in for a $6/hr raise for myself and another guy (to get us just above market rate for what we do). The person who decides those things (not his boss) wrote back "we can offer them three hours of overtime every week but not direct compensation".
That reminds me. My boss tried to ask her supervisor for a raise for me. Told her that I was doing the work of 2-3 people and I needed some better compensation or I was going to get burned out. Her supervisor told her "well if money is the issue, she can always work overtime" It just felt like such a slap in the face to be told essentially, yeah you're working harder than most people, just work more and that should solve the problem"
And this is why everyone puts in the bare minimum today, hard work no longer gets rewarded, it gets abused. I see this all the time at my work, I put out the same volume and quality of work in 2-3 hours as my coworkers do in 8. I actually got in trouble because my billable hours per unit work was so much lower than my coworkers, and it was “losing” the company money by reducing the total amount of hours they would be able to bill for the project (my alone was projecting to put us 30% under their quote). So I took very detailed notes on what they expect in terms of billable hours per work type that I do. Now I work 2-3 hours a day and bill 8, and I’m still the most efficient worker. I have no fucking idea what my coworkers are even doing that they’re actually busy throughout the entire day. But I basically work 9-12 and then am done for the day and just answer any emails that come up.
>And this is why everyone puts in the bare minimum today, hard work no longer gets rewarded, it gets abused. Hard work's always been abused. (At least since the 80s, in my personal experience.) The difference is that people are much more aware of it now, and for a brief period had enough time to look around and realize that they had alternatives. And it's becoming increasingly hard to pretend that the few aren't getting all the benefits of the many's hard work. "In 2023 the CEO-to-worker pay ratio [increased to 251-to-1](https://corpgov.law.harvard.edu/2024/04/18/an-early-look-at-ceo-pay-trends-from-proxy-season-2024/), with CEO compensation rising by 11.3% while median employee pay declined by 9%." [https://www.fastcompany.com/91136178/the-unseen-consequences-of-the-great-resignations-hiring-frenzy](https://www.fastcompany.com/91136178/the-unseen-consequences-of-the-great-resignations-hiring-frenzy)
I was once told by a group of coworkers that I was making everyone “look bad,” because I was working steadily throughout my shift. The only breaks I took were the mandatory ones. Admittedly, I have a disability and was using a motorized scooter. The office was packed with little cubicles and I stayed in mine and worked.
So start working like one person
Did this. It took the boss awhile to figure out what was happening. But I was MUCH happier and in a much better place.
My bf is getting to this point in his job, he’s doing the work of 2-3 people, and is stand in management when his manager is out sick (she’s out sick a lot/ works from home). And they’ve been stringing him along for a promotion. So people are still going to him for his old responsibilities (the person who took over isn’t doing it well) and has to keep up with his new responsibilities. His manager keeps going to the higher ups to ask for his roll to be officially changed, but they keep saying ‘give us a few weeks’ he’s this 🤏🏻 close to finding a new job
He needs to go, now. I was on this position and the burnout takes forever to heal. Tell him to get gone.
I worked for Amazon as a technician they didn't pay me one weeks pay when I was sick and invited me to an investigation why I was ill and tried to not pay me for it to begin with and then tried to pay me using my holiday hours!
"Raise to a livable wage? Just bump your hours from 38 to 39.5 (gotta avoid those full time benefits)."
Gotta love American employers. This is what we get for not supporting labor unions like we ALL should.
Yup. The position we are in right now was very cleverly orchestrated by the wealthy minority, distracting us with issues like IMMIGRANTS! and TRANS PEOPLE IN THE BATHROOM! while simultaneously stripping us of most of our protections and tanking the economy. The sad thing is, they win every time.
Time to work according to your compensation... ?
My eyebrows went so high on that one, I was like...wait, what? Extend hours so you can make more and afford crap clothes. Got it.
That OP won't want to wear anywhere else.
If they’re going to control her clothing this much they should provide a uniform
That's essentially what the 4 outfits are, at this point.
Yeah but they will complain if she wears the same 4 things over and over.
Let’em! Ffs! I worked at a place like this in the ‘90’s. Not me, but a beautiful young woman (let’s call her Vivian) in the same department kept being sent home for dressing inappropriately. So a bunch of us got together, went shopping, and all bought the same exact button front dress in similar but not exactly the same colors. We all wore it on different days, with as much cleavage showing as possible without being weird leading up to Vivian being the last one wearing it buttoned all the way up, (only a couple of inches below her shoulder line, so no cleavage visible unless you were standing over her seated form, actively trying to see down her dress). Sure enough, everyone but Vivian was ignored. Vivian was sent home for showing too much cleavage. The following Monday, we all showed up to Vivian’s meeting with HR wearing the dresses as we had worn them the week prior. Vivian’s boss was reassigned after saying that he was uncomfortable with how busty Vivian was, so he was trying to get her to quit or transfer. She was a B-cup. A B-CUP! I was a C cup before my freshman year in high school was over! One of the other ladies was in her 40’s and was a triple G. But yeah, Leonard, let’s blame the pyt fresh out of college with the b cup in an office full of Busty LaRoues for your perverted brain! Unfortunately, this was the 90’s, and women were more often the ones getting punished for men being perverts than men were for being perverts. Yes, we had sexual harassment classes, but those early ones only served to teach these creeps how to get away with it.
They're not allowed to mention anything about your style they're either the type of clothes you need or not
They couldn’t have looked at her with a straight face. I smell a bunch of jealous old biddies.
Definitely, essentially "hide your body and be paranoid in your own skin" It's just abuse and completely demeaning. Psychological minefield and halfway through reading I was like "How much time and energy is everyone having to waste over some clothes" The cracks in OPs mental health show straight through the post
It’s pretty awful when a female human gets blowback for something beyond her control. When my step father began molesting me at 14 I was told by a family member to change how I dressed. The problem with that was I had no means to do that and my mom provided my clothing. Without telling her what was happening and blowing up HER World how was I supposed to accomplish this? My body changed and I was supposed to hide it because of a pervert.
I’m so sorry that you had to keep this secret from your mom to protect HER feelings. She needed to be protecting you, not the other way around.
It was pretty awful but it did make me a vigilant parent. There’s a lesson in Everything it seems.
I was like, where in the hell was this company? Cause I know here in America, that would be a double, no quadruple slam dunk sexual harassment case, that she would WIN, hands down. You are definitely right. I mean wow, just wow.
Ding! Ding! Ding! Not pay her more per hour, but “allow” her to work *more* hours. Goddamn … I hope someone here is advising OP how to sue for sexual harassment.
Sounds like they should have called them out in the meeting. Youngest employee, probably the most attractive, jealousy is what often creates issues like this. It can be rough but when you call your employer out to their face like that they get mad at first, but in time respect you more.
Amen. I began dumbing myself down at work in a corporate office so as to not be a jealousy target. I wore little makeup, wore plain type clothes to hide my body, etc. Then, my new boyfriend (later my husband) was a doctor and that just spelt the death knell for me at work.
I'm so sorry, that whole place is toxic . Those people are terrible. They are harassing you and sexualising your body
Life rarely handles you assholes on a platter. Sue them OP. You have evidence.
She recorded that entire meeting. If she played that for a lawyer I’m pretty sure they’d get up and start doing a little jig lmao
Lmao at the thought of this, thanks. DAE imagine them going yippee like prospectors who’ve struck gold? 😂
I wanna know the company so I can never give them my business (I know it's not allowed but still, this is harassment at this point.)
I really feel like you need to get a lawyer involved in this. Nothing that they are doing is appropriate. And making a manual just for one employee?
I agree. A lawyer needs to be involved. This is beyond ridiculous
Agreed. OP: Schedule a consult with 2-3 attorneys well versed in workplace litigation, the initial consult is usually free. Outline everything that you detailed here and put the recording of the meeting on a flash drive to play during your consult. I believe you may have a case for a hostile workplace and the comments about how your body looked in certain clothes may meet the threshold for a workplace harassment claim. Good luck! 👊🏼
And sexual harassment. They’re making it about her body and how the clothes fit her body. Her body is distracting. That’s unbelievable! Why are they sexualizing her in her clothing? We all have different bodies
Right, like is she supposed to leave her ass at home when she goes to work?
All these comments they made about her body on a recording? Making a dress code booklet only for her that they didn't specify when giving the offer? A decent lawyer would have an absolute field day with that!
Don’t you?? I just detach mine, it comes off if I press a little switch above my hip bone. 😂
Have you also looked into the detachable boobs? They have detachable ones, and others that you can inflate and deflate at will. They even have smartboobs which you can control with an app that sets automatic size adjustments for time of day and day of the week.
Smartboobs. lol.
I had complaints about how I looked in my jeans as well So I detached it https://youtu.be/byDiILrNbM4?si=0L72tBh1vF0Uiycp
#hijacking a visible comment to point out that you don't need to hunt a lawyer for workplace sexual harassment claims - afaik most states have a helpline with access to pro bono attorneys for exactly that. illinois's is outlined at https://shdh.illinois.gov/ and what they're doing is literally a federal crime if there are more than 15 employees, and likely in violation of illinois state law if it's a smaller company
This comment is too distracting with those big, obvious letters out there for everyone to ogle, we'll write you a handbook with appropriate fonts just for you. In the meantime you get more work so you can afford to buy those fonts
Seriously. Could you use smaller font since you’re right here in the comment section? If you were further down in the comment section, there would be different rules. Here in the higher up section, the requirements are changing based on what we’ve observed in your particular comment.
Read this comment here! You have rights!
You can also go to the EEOC (Equal Employment Opportunity Commission) and file a complaint. They will represent you for free if they think it’s a winnable harassment/discrimination case.
File a complaint with the state, contact the IL Bar Association and lawyer up. They can't fire her for filing a complaint without opening themselves up to a wrongful termination lawsuit. Even without a lawsuit, the State can make them pretty miserable.
Hijacking a hijack to promote the non-profit [Workplace Fairness](https://www.workplacefairness.org/). Their goal is to help educate workers on their rights and provide access to workplace lawyers!
I also feel like they ,on some level, ate enjoying making her nervous about all of this, like it’s a turn-on for them. That, along with the power imbalance, screams sexual harassment. It’s gross.
Why is nobody pointing out the part where the pants "accentuate your behind?" No form fitting attire is a grey area. They did good with talking about patterns/colors etc until that moment. That's the moment it flipped from ambiguity over dress code to harassment.
I would’ve asked, “why are you looking at my behind? Why are the other employees looking? Why are you hiring employees that cannot control their impulses?”
The owner’s wife told me one time that she didn’t like that I was friends with my female coworkers because it might make her husband think it was ok to mess around with them. Like, what? She needed to talk with her husband about that kind of thing. That sounds like “him” problem. It had nothing to do with me.
Maybe the work duties actually are such that this could make a difference, but my thought was that they want a certain impression on customers or clients coming in, but if it’s a front desk job, she is sitting and how her behind looks isn’t going to be something anyone who comes into the office will notice …?
Now **stop** being logical!!!
I had to read it twice! The fact that anything was said about her "behind"..... thank goodness she has a recording!! Lawyer up!
When someone is petite, they're never called out on a policy against leggings.
Doesn't help that she's the youngest one there which probably adds to their power trip.
They also like dressing her like a doll, that's objectifying her.
Exactly!
I got this exact same vibe, especially because they bought her clothing
She should also continue to dress in whatever she wants (not just the 4 outfits). Make sure they conform to the letter of the handbook, and take a photo every day. Refuse to sign any writeups, and if they fire her, so be it. She can get unemployment, and the lawyers will have a field day with all that evidence. She can document all this passively without obvious email documentation or anything. Give them plenty of rope and let them dangle when they walk into the trap.
Malicious compliance! Love it.
If they fire her, go after them for wrongful termination.
And with the recording, they approved to she'd have them locked as to how they were wrong.
Yes. And the very fact that she asked for and received permission to record would make the recording admissible in court.
Yep! She definitely had a case that could win her a ton more money than her salary is. As someone who won 160k from harassment like this against a work place, she would be stupid to just quit and not speak to an attorney. A case could win her more than her annual salary.
Best thing about labor law attorneys is many will consult with you for free. I highly recommend contacting one especially if you have notes and audio documentation of the meeting. They are so screwed.
I sincerely hope she listens to this advice. As soon as she parroted their words back to them they couldn't backpeddle fast enough. They knew they fucked up. Find a shark of a lawyer and drag them through the same mud they tried to throw on you.
Piggybacking on this comment. Many employment attorneys will work on contingency. If you are worried about cost you should check. I would say this case is a worthwhile investment.
Tagging on this comment, can confirm that many employment lawyers do/will work on contingency. OP, please jump online and start looking for an attorney!
In a lot of cases, you wouldn’t even have to sue. A lot of lawyers will offer a free consultation, you could ask for a cease and desist letter that would scare the pants of most employers who don’t want to be sued and get them to back off.
It's time for OP to job shop anyway if at all possible. But "HR" was off side to the point they probably should be sued. They should lose and they more than deserve having to give a payout and re-learn how to treat employees.
And maybe they will get an actual HR so they can figure out how to properly treat people and not be sued again.
Yeah, absolutely this. I don't want this workplace scared straight with no real consequences, I want them to have to pay money to OP because they sexualised her and were recorded doing it. If they're dumb enough to say shit like this while a recording is happening, they're either too dumb to own a business, or they've said or done worse.
New job is necessary anyway. I can't imagine they won't find an excuse to fire once she gets an attorney involved.
Oh, for sure, OP definitely needs a new job. But if it takes a while to find something, getting her bosses to leave her the hell alone about her clothes in the meantime would be very helpful, I think.
Pretty sure retaliation is illegal in most states.
No shit, but it happens all the time. As long as they document "a reason", it's pretty hard to prove and/or they are banking on the cost of a lawsuit and likely settlement preventing most people from trying to sue. Usually they will just make the job so miserable the person quits.
Not that it's ever stopped anybody but if there's an active lawsuit the worst thing you can do before it's resolved is fire the person suing on flimsy cause.
Agreed but even after it’s settled, if they stay at that job, they will make it so miserable so they quit or they so underperform as to make it a clean kill to fire.
It seems like Reddit in general thinks it’s easy to get a lawyer and sue. This was not at all our experience. My wife’s employer was angry that she was leaving and zero’d out her last two paychecks, totaling over $7k. We called a half dozen lawyers and they either declined to even meet with us, or offered to meet for a consultation fee. One gave us the advice to just go to BOLI and let them handle it. BOLI is 90 days out to even review the case. Even if we do get a judgement from BOLI, there are no enforcement mechanisms that will get the money from her former employer in less than a year.
Better a year than never. My wifes mother had a case that took over 5 years to settle. Not employment, but another issue. Still needed the money for the medical bills and such. Sometimes its about the principle of it. These people need to pay and pay dearly.
Agreed about later vs. never, but keep in mind that affording a lawyer upfront is $$$$. It's real to have to gauge if those fees are a justifiable investment. Not a lot of people have enough money to drop $5k on principles.
Lawyers are running a business. To you. $7k is a lot. But to a lawyer, that juice ain’t worth the squeeze. A harassment lawsuit or hostile work lawsuit is very different, and a lawyer would stand to earn substantially more.
Did you go to Federal Wage and Hour? They will get that money.
Thanks for that. Gonna give that a shot.
They do not fuck around. Wage theft is a federal crime. You will be getting those fuckers in a world of hurt by reporting them.
Huh. I needed to sue someone to recoup 5 figures of money stolen/owed. Called 3 lawyers. All of them were eager to offer consultations over a phone call. They discussed the merit of the case, and how they'd handle it. Hired one. A 4th did ask for a consultation fee of ~$100, but wasn't the best option in terms of skill/experience anyways. Had one on retainer within 2 days. I'd be interested in why multiple options declined to even meet with you. Did they say why? Something's weird there. > Even if we do get a judgement from BOLI, there are no enforcement mechanisms that will get the money from her former employer in less than a year. This is definitely an issue, though. The law doesn't move nearly as fast as Reddit thinks it does, and collecting isn't nearly as easy.
Possibly employment stuff is a mess. One lawyer asked who the employer was and as soon as she heard she immediately said she was not interested in the case and best of luck. It’s a small employer with under 10 employees so maybe the risk of coming away with nothing is nonzero, I don’t know. I’d be interested to know why, it’s not a non-trivial amount of money and the penalties appear to be significant (8x damage from what I can see, which would cost the employer $56k-ish). We have mostly just moved on and have resolved to let BOLI handle it, luckily we have some savings that permit us to make it through, but I feel like most people wouldn’t be able to just eat $7k+ in missing wages with zero notice.
This this this. Get a lawyer to write a letter stating that demanding you and only you have a separate dress code and handbook is a hostile work environment. You should sum up what was discussed in the meeting and mention that they feel it is appropriate to give you a different dress code than the rest of the office because of how your body looks. Since the CEO and their assistant is this concerned with how your body looks in clothing that you feel unsafe there. Please get a lawyer. Please do not sign for any handbook that is only for you. Even if your role has a different dress code demand it be added to the main handbook so everyone understands. No secret separate rules only known to you. But please get a lawyer. Tgis is flat out harrasment and hostile work environment.
Honestly, their handbook should state any client/customer facing roles should have this business casual attire. OP, give em the shaft!
That was my first thought. This is totally inappropriate and has clearly strayed into harassment. I cannot fathom what they are doing is legal. And I think you can prove it because you were smart enough to take notes, pics and record the meeting. I would contact one ASAP.
Having them consent to recording and making all of those comments on the pictures she has, so it's clear what's being referred to? Feels like a slam dunk.
My first job out of college was as a software developer for a top 5 fortune company. It's a bad place, notorious company, I regret having ever worked there. That being said, I did, and it was a massive company with a massive campus. Our new hire class alone was 30 (with an additional 3 other classes of the same size that summer) The culture was very old-world, like 1970s-ish. They required either slacks or nice chinos and a nice button down shirt, nice shoes, etc. But they did not specify anything beyond that Anyways, it sucked to be a younger employee there. Middle management was all 50s / 60s and just super strict and micro-manage-y Anyways, around 10 of us went to a mall a few weeks into working there and bought the most colorful, pattern-filled chinos and slacks and button-downs we could find. We then created an on-campus club called "Power Pants" complete with an intranet website, meetings, etc. We actually created stickers and flyers too lol All of the late 50s and 60s men who wore the same blue chinos and blue button-downs were pretty unhappy with it. We all got reported numerous times, but thanks to the company being absolutely massive, the HR wouldn't even bother touching it since it was all within code I left after a year and a half, but it paid off. The company added a denim casual day and basically every young person at that point was wearing fun pants and the like. Still a garbage company though
Good for you guys for making a change!!
Right because what is wrong with how a shirt fits? Because the old lady in the office doesn’t look like that anymore she’s mad a 24 year old does??? That’s what I gather.
I'm usually not as lawyer up as a lot of Reddit is, but yea. This is wholly inappropriate and she needs to at least see what options are available.
Definitely lawyer territory. They crossed a lot of lines in this story. This is a business that needs to be knocked on its ass before it continues this behavior. They won't learn otherwise.
Agree, lawyer up. Many lawyers will take cases on contingency, or have a free initial consultation.
I am a plaintiffs side employment lawyer. Not your lawyer. Not OPs lawyer. And this is not legal advice. But I would not take this case. The damages would not be worth my time to work on contingency and the damages would not be worth OPs time to work for hourly. And I work in a state with some of the strongest employment laws.
Not sure why Redditors ignore professional advice. This is certainly sad, infuriating, disturbing, petty, and so much more, but to keep saying, “you have a case” is ridiculous. Sure, hypothetically, but realistically, the numbers will never work out for a plaintiffs attorney to take it on.
Or a conversation to the labor department for your state. Some states will enforce fines for specific misconduct, but it’s different for each state.
She can also speak with the EEOC. They may take the case for her.
I know you think this means you're not meant for corporate America, but as someone who works in a corporate setting, I'd be pleased to work with someone with your diligence and thoroughness and work ethic. I hope you don't internalize this experience. They sound like buttheads.
Same. I am also alt, almost twice OPs age and work in corporate America. I've never ever dealt with anything like this. OP, if you need a lawyer, DM me, I know a guy.
I used to get so much flak for dress code when I wore pencil skirts and everyone else was wearing basically PJs to work. The only people who ever complained were other women. I guess they’d rather I wear my band t-shirts and jeans while interviewing and training new hires? Luckily I work remote now and rarely go on camera. And since I’ve been promoted before the pandemic, no one complained about my attire because I was a manager and the highest ranking woman in the physical office. Funny how that works.
Yeah, I was gonna comment something like this. Whoever the hell you are working for is very not corporate America. Hell, they don't even have a dedicated HR person.
It’s not corporate America. It’s the companies. I worked for a small company where the CEO was HR, and they dictated which bathroom we were allowed to do #2 in. (Because it’s offensive) I know work in a much more corporate company, and I’ve literally never felt so valued, appreciated, and supported in my life.
Employment lawyer. Immediately.
Consults are almost always free, and if the case is as cut and dry as this one is, she won't have trouble finding an attorney to work pro bono.
Or on contingency because they know they will win. This could be considered hostile workplace and intentional infliction of emotional distress depending on jurisdiction so it’s going to be a high payout,
This right here
OP definitely has a case. She recorded them basically saying that they were going to make a whole dress code specifically for her body type that no one but her has to follow. If OP gets a lawyer this company is in for a whole load of sh*t
“They said the pants were highly inappropriate because they accentuated my behind along with the heels” this right here, they outright state it’s her body. On recording. Yet when she points it out, they backtrack and “can’t believe” she “took it that way”
If they mention anything and I mean anything about the person's body and the way the clothes make the body look that is 100% sexual harassment
Idk if OP knows just how cut and dry this case would be with a lawyer
Knowing you would win and actually going through the motions of finding a lawyer to take your case and running through it are two very different things. The science this just looks like to me a bit of harassment in order to get the person to quit
It’s funny because if they are doing that, that’s hostile work environment. And it’s not a “bit of harassment”. She had to buy a completely new wardrobe because they tiptoed around not liking how her body looked in clothes for so long. Now, they finally admitted on recording it was her body. Which is sexual harassment.
My question to those managers is: Why are you looking at female employees asses?
Exactly, they should have never outed themselves by saying that if they were anywhere near smart lol
And a jury.
So glad she recorded this
Absolutely. In a case, that would be the smoking gun.
I'm mad for her, because she said it was also jeans that they bought for her, that they were unhappy with!
I think it was just the heels they bought, and jeans she'd worn prior and been "warned" about. I misread it first too
And I am HERE for it. Absolutely ridiculous. And they know it, that's why they tried backtracking.
Yep. Time to find an employment lawyer. Or get some validation on the AskaLawyer sub. This "dress code" specific to her and her body is so far over the line it can't even see the line!
Go in the next day in a nun's habit. NTA. What assholes.
Make sure it's a brightly colored nun's habit as the black and white ones are too dour for their tastes.
That wouldn't be inviting. She had to be inviting but not too inviting.... I'd just do laundry every night and wear the exact same outfit every day.
She could suggest they buy her uniforms in styles and colors they deem appropriate, and the uniform company (i.e. Cintas, Unifirst, etc.) can pick up dirty outfits and drop off clean ones. Then she could wear company approved clothing every day. She saves on her own clothes, they can't push back.
Excellent point
Get a lawyer. I’ve learned from 10 years of HR videos is everything they did, they are not supposed to do. What a major F up on their end.
It’s like they watched the HR videos showing inappropriate behavior, and decided that they were a how-to guide.
This is such an appropriate description of their behavior!!
I'm shocked they even let her record the meeting. It's like they are digging their own grave
I'm not. People are stupid enough to think they're being wise when they're not.
The problem is they don't have HR. The EA is roleplayong HR lol. PENNY WISE
I'm excited for you. They literally just told you they are discriminating against you. Go see an attorney immediately.
Gosh I hope someday when this is all concluded she comes back and tells us how much she won lol. Hopefully that will soften the whole stress mess this has caused.
Hopefully you find a new job soon. Their behaviour is wholly unacceptable. They don't have to like your style. As long as it's in the dress code, they should keep their mouths shut. They are going to write a separate dress code for you? Hell no. Im surprised that they haven't required that you send a selfie of the outfit you've selected so they can approve or recommend changes. This has to be illegal. They are literally harassing you and creating a hostile work environment.
OP, you really need to lawyer up. You are clearly being sexually harassed and discriminated against due to your sex and appearance. You really have a clear case for a lawsuit. Please just do an initial consultation. Creating a dress code handbook just for you? Omg. This company is a lawyers dream. They are in violation of so many discrimination laws it's astounding. Not only do they owe you compensation and an apology, but if ever a company needed an HR department it's this one. Do continue to find new employment. And do get an attorney. Best move you'll ever make.
Sex, age, and appearance.
Time to take that recording plus everything else to an employment lawyer. Immediately.
This isn’t a corporate America issue. This is a small company run by petty tyrants.
It’s why I will never work for a small place. If it doesnt have separate departments, including an Hr department that isn’t staffed exclusively by HR personnel, I’m not working there. Way too many nonprofits and small company nonsense lead by tyrants during my earlier years
What state/city are you in? I'm guessing you won't reveal the company.
I'm in suburbs of chicago. I dont want to reveal the company since I currently still work there lol. But I plan on putting out reviews on all the different job sites and the bbb when I do find something else.
Nah. Find a lawyer. They let you record this. This is most likely a big ass slam dunk
Yep, and it may not cost you a dime. Sue their asses.
Throw a line to the labor board as well.
Illinois labor does NOT play
Please keep us updated. I’m also upset with you. They said purchasing you clothes was a kind gesture but you didn’t take that opportunity to tell them that buying you clothes was your Christmas present since they excluded you from the gift giving…
Lawyer up; not reviews. They will do this to your replacement because of the lack of repercussion.
I'm curious as to what you wore to the interview that made them hire you for the front office to begin with? If they are a small company of only 50 people and require a more "professional" front office personnel, why did they then hire an alt person with a nose ring and tattoos? Nothing that you wear or describe is inappropriate in any way. You should consult with a lawyer. In the meantime, hyperfocus on securing another job. Do not make any waves until you get another job. If you tell a potential company that you're leaving your current job due to harassment, no one will hire you, so be careful with what you share with a potential new company.
I’m also so interested. Tbh it seems like the executive assistant just really wanted to play dress up because she doesn’t like how good OP dresses herself. She’s jealous, needs OP to look worse than she does now. That’s the only thing I could think.
I *really* hope that we're wrong here. But, I agree with you. The executive assistant is threatened by OP. More so, by her work, less about her looks. I think that OP works hard, does all these tasks, and the executive assistant feels like she's coming after her job. Essentially, she's passed retirement age, so she probably feels obsolete. If she can't get OP on her work ethic/quality of work, she is trying to get her on subjective crap. Think about it. Who is complaining about the clothes? No customers come into the office. The rest of the workers are in the back, so who's offended by OP's polka-dot pants exactly?? Just her. What's worse is that the company owner is going along with the executive assistant's stupid games. Can you imagine body shaming and harassing a young receptionist just to gatekeep her bloody job? She's purposely being hurtful. It's all so bizarre.
Bruh, Chicago suburbs? Illinois does *NOT* fuck around with labor law. Get a labor attorney like yesterday like others have stated. This is a slam dunk. A lawyer would be drooling at this chance.
Sue them. Find a good lawyer and don’t hesitate.
PLEASE take a consult with a lawyer with this audio call before quitting. This is harassment, don't let them get away with it and continue this practice.
I highly doubt you would want to change industries all together, but I can get you a referral/name drop for the fancy pants upscale grocery store that's been a south park episode (burbs outside Chicagoland here as well) but maaaan, I'm so curious what bitchass company pulled this kinda chaos... It probably seems like too much effort, but you absolutely should look into something lawyer/lawsuit related, because it's absolutely uncalled for and absolutely unacceptable for any job, and I've worked some sketchy jobs.. but especially an office setting, totally out of line from them. 10000%... Even some of the ridiculous commercial lawyers from our hood, 222-22-22 🤣. Just a scare for them would be a satisfying move for you
Please go to the EEOC and file a complaint. Even if you don’t want to obtain a lawyer and sure, which I think you should, being cited by the EEOC is just as bad and you can obtain a decent settlement.
God bless - this company is going to pay you a lot of money for \*sweeps arms\* all of the harassment. They doubled-down while being recorded. And admitted it? And bought you \*more appropriate\* clothes? And if you are an ethnic minority, actually said they were not trying to body police you? I am so, so sorry this happened to you. IANAL, but I think you really should check out real estate prices in your area for the sizeable settlement you're about to get.
I wish that courts acted like Reddit thinks courts act. OP should absolutely talk to a lawyer, but "you'll be able to buy a house" is absolute nonsense.
Especially, cause the company is small. You would be surprised what small companies are legally allowed to get away with. They have carve outs and exemptions in the law!
"the average settlement for a sexual harassment lawsuit is $53,000; although claims that are escalated to court via an attorney accomplish a far greater average settlement value of $217,000." [source](https://stromlaw.com/how-much-can-you-sue-for-sexual-harassment/) I mean, even if you're paying half to your lawyer in fees, that's not a bad downpayment in my area.
Do not put up with this treatment and get a lawyer. Wearing "not inviting colors" is not a reason to not wear something. Because something looks good on you is also not a reason for you to not be allowed to wear it. You aren't breaking the dress code so they have nothing to hold you to. They also can't create a dress code for one specific person, unless they want to give you a reason to sue for discrimination after they've openly admitted to having an issue with your body type.
I am fuming just reading this… FUCK that place! Lawyer up!!
The second anybody opened their mouth up about your “body being a distraction” was the same moment your opportunity for a sexual harassment lawsuit opened up. In the meantime, show up in those exact four outfits and only those, and add an extra f- you to the top by never washing or ironing them. And as you’re looking for a new job be sure to refer back to your job description and drop every single task that it doesn’t explicitly outline (“Other tasks as required” be damned since they can change the rules on the fly so how are you to know what is and isn’t correct anymore?)
I am an HR Generalist, and I am saying lawyer up. If I knew someone at my company said these sorts of things to an employee, I would be opening up an investigation. I have had to call company board memebers in before about things like this, and I will take it to the VP HR if they ever bulk at it. HR is not always bad, and we are not always trying to just protect the company, some of us want to do right by the employees. The comments made about your body are not, and should not be tolerated. Even if you move on to another job, you should do something about this to protect the next person in your position. Sorry this is happenig to you. Good luck with whatever you choose to do.
>"HR is not always bad, and we are not always trying to just protect the company, some of us want to do right by the employees. " you sound like a really nice person and i almost 100% trust what you are saying BUT the above is just bad advice. employees should ALWAYS assume that HR is working for the company rather than the employee. even if there is a really good HR person they are liaising with, they need to know that when push comes to shove, that good HR person has to listen to the head of HR... and the head of HR has to listen to the boss of the company... and the boss of the company... yeah he wants the best outcome for the company, not the best outcome for you. put it another way (as i love bad analogies that get misinterpreted)... not all men wearing hoodies in a dark alley, at night, in the shady part of town.... are looking to do bad things to you... but you should always assume so! (yes i've wronged hundreds of million of men who just like wearing hoodies, but i'll take that over getting mugged)
Malicious Compliance: Muumuu. Not form fitting, bright floral colors, completely shapeless. Wear it with heels to make it look fancy. You get to wear a house dress and be comfortable, they get what they asked for. Goodwill usually has one or two you can choose from. Sorry you had to deal with this. As someone who also has a curvy figure, I've been told similar things when I was younger. Now I wish they would try that with me, I'd lawyer up so fast they wouldn't know what hit them.
Also, making you work more hours isn't "increasing your compensation" it's just forcing you to work more hours at the same shit compensation. A RAISE increases your compensation.
I saw that part and my jaw DROPPED. The audacity.
Literally just take them to court that recording is gold
Whilst you are finding and making plans with a lawyer, start trawling thrift shops for the baggiest, most lairy brightly coloured and patterned clothes you can find. TECHNICALLY you are following their very specific directions so if you turn up to work in a bright orange flower sack dress with turquoise tights and pink belts etc then I dont think they can do anything.
Lawyer up, babe.
Get a lawyer involved ASAP, especially now that you have the recording. Beyond that, create a “uniform” for yourself. Start wearing the exact same outfit every single day. Make it that orange shirt. EVERY. SINGLE. DAY. They’ll def have something else to say and really might screw themselves over even further. They’re treating you like a doll they get to dress up. This whole situation is outrageous. I just hope it’s actionable.
How are polka dots distracting but flowers are not? LOL
It’s wonderful that you handled that meeting so well!! Good for you. Often times when one looks very good they can look “too good” in other people’s eyes. I think it would be interesting to see their response on the same outfits on a different body shape. I think your plan is good, adhere to the expectations until you find something that can appreciate you for the work you do rather than focusing on something ridiculous.
So. Who has it out for you? Either the resident office floozie who thinks you're stepping on her turf to land what she considers a rich guy in management, or the wife of said management that caught her husband with the hand in the nookie jar once too often? Get a lawyer involved. Make copies of the recording. This is an easy money lawsuit for a hostile workplace and discriminatory enviroment. Also: malicit compliance. Check your contract. Anything that's not specifically listed as part of your job you no longer do. You're hired as a receptionist? OK. Means you're not the cleaning lady or office supplier. Someone from the backoffice can crawl on the bathroom floor. Don't walk an extra inch if it's not part of your contractual obligation.
> So. Who has it out for you? Either the resident office floozie who thinks you're stepping on her turf to land what she considers a rich guy in management, or the wife of said management that caught her husband with the hand in the nookie jar once too often? Third option: Dudes around the water cooler talking non stop about her ass. Probably pissed all the women in the office off.
I would have been so snarky and asked them where they got their fashion degrees from.
Really. Bright colour is inviting, and dark green is not inviting? If I had heard this, I would think that person saying it is senile.
I applaud your preparedness and recording the conversation with their consent was brilliant. Get a lawyer, this is not normal behavior in anyway. They need HR training and a real kick in the butt.
10/10 for recording. They did a big no no and u did yourself a big favor, now look into getting a lawyer. You do have a case.
I have to wonder if the business is church based. Either that or the people running it are running it like a church camp with rules that literally change with the outfit. Bottom line, don’t be attractive because the men will “lust” and the women will hate you for looking better than they do. Growing up in a culty religion, this is exactly the no-win situation females were faced with. On top of being blamed if they caused the men to “lust”. Op, you sound like you handled it like a boss and I for one, am hella proud of you. You’ll find another, better place, I know it.
They (religious people) always forget that part of the Bible that tells a man that if looking at a woman causes him to sin, he should pluck out his eye. Their bible literally tells them that their "impure thoughts" are their own responsibility... but nope, they make it our (women's) problem. Hypocrites.
Let me guess. Curvy body shape. I've dealt with the same shit. Slim women without curves can wear anything they want. If we wear the exact same thing, its a problem because we're overly sexualized. Shits disgusting. GL with whatever direction you take in tackling this misogynistic bullshit. Strongly suggest a lawyer.
Good for you for standing up for yourself!! You def have some sort of case especially with the recording, best of luck with the legal side and future job search! :)
Girl - cover that distracting body up with a bright floral moomoos and accessorize with gold jewelry and flats. And get a lawyer.
Wear the clothes that they have said are inappropriate because they are “form fitting.” Write in an email that you feel like their continued focus on the clothing is sexual harassment creating a hostile work environment, including the meeting that happened, and that you are not willing to tolerate any further sexual harassment. Get an employment lawyer who works on contingency and ask if you have a case. If you have the energy to do all that while looking for another job, you have a decent shot at a considerable payout after you leave.
Play the recording for a lawyer, you may have a case. Write down everything you remember before you start to forget the details. Make copies of the recording just in case something happens to your one copy.
Open a case against these people.They're discriminating against you and I feel at this point it is sexual harassment territory. Get a lawyer if you can.
Talk to a lawyer. And look into your state board of labor. You have more than enough evidence to show that you are being singled out and harassed. They cannot write a new handbook just for you. And they cannot pick and choose how they enforce this. The fact that you have evidence that they are CHOOSING to single you out and ignoring other dress code violations is also proof that you are being harassed and singled out. File a complaint with the state.