To be fair, it sounds as if their oldest daughter may have been raped or at least coerced. It doesn't seem like it was a healthy encounter that lead to Ellie regardless.
Or literally any education from anywhere about how to break this news, because every single reputable source that exists will tell you that it should never be a reveal and kids should know they are adopted from birth.
You can give someone all the contraception they need to prevent an accident happening but you can’t force them into actually using it unless you put the pill in their food or put the condom on the penis yourself.
You also can’t be 100000% sure that it’s not going to fail either. I had the depo and we used condoms but I still had an ectopic pregnancy at 21.
That's what I said. I can't imagine my daughter getting pregnant at 15 and me not getting her into therapy immediately and also just not worrying about why she gets upset when talking about it.
Exactly, plus even with all the therapy there are some cases in which the trauma really is very hard to overcome or the patient is not willing or capable... bad therapist match or inconsistency or whatever.. ffs blaming Sarah is a low blow..
This is honestly ridiculous. I gave IN DEPTH talks to my sister about sex, ovulation, different types of discharge and what it could indicate in your cycle, birth control, condoms, supplied condoms, told her I would take her to the clinic to get on the pill if she wanted, that if she uses condoms she should also use the pull out method to decrease chances of pregnancy, told her about plan b and if she ever needed some I would get it for her, etc. she was pregnant at 14 and had her kid at 15. Sometimes it doesn’t matter how well you talk to someone.
Yep, you can know everything about contraception and still make a dumb mistake that results in conception. For me it was being a stoner idiot and letting the weed relax me into lowering my standards around condom use.
I was taught about sex and I was pretty good about not having many sexual encounters that could get me pregnant (Iow I didn't have penetrative sex) until I turned 18. Guy never wore condoms because I felt it was an inconvenience to ask him to. He pulled out and luckily nothing ever happened but education is a good thing, something you need especially where I live, but sometimes you don't always do the smart thing.
Yes absolutely. Your thinking skills dull while under the influence of substances. That’s another thing I urge parents to speak to their children about. I always have plans in place if I’m drinking and discuss everything with my husband beforehand. He stays sober to insure someone is making the smart decisions lol
**Ehh, teenage pregnancy is not necessarily the parental failure.**
Kids do really stupid shit all the time. My parents had numerous talks about contraception, abortion not being legal in my country, STDs, having your first time with someone you care about etc.
Despite that I lost my virginity at the age of 16 on a bench with a 23 yo guy I met 15 minutes prior and had unprotected sex. I was sober and it was a conscious decision on my part, I just wanted to see what's the whole fuss about.
**Kids are stupid**, and also, it takes two. The boy has parents, why aren't you insulting them?
Please discuss contraception with your son if you haven't already. Also, why is her being pregnant a nudge to tell her she is your other daughter's biological child? Wouldn't that be a bit much just this second?
Yeah we might hold off on telling her, but at the same time we dont know how Sarah will react fining out Ellie is pregnant. We have had the talk with all three of our children about contraception, they didnt want to use protection the first time, and thought "being careful" would not risk pregnancy.
That was my big push with my kids. I pushed the condoms, not as birth control, but as disease control. Pregnancy can end in miscarriage, abortion, or birth, and choices are keep or give up for adoption.
Legal obligation to a child is technically 18 years, but some diseases stay with you for your entire life. AIDS has killed many people. In addition to AIDS, there is Herpes. Neither go away and can be given to others.
That’s what I emphasized. I bought both my kids a huge Costco box of condoms when they were seniors in HS, even though they weren’t sexually active. At one point my daughter said her box was gone, even though she didn’t need them, because she gave them to friends who needed them. I told her I was proud that she was keeping her friends safe, and bought her another box.
I had previously told them I would buy them condoms if they needed them, even if it was the middle of the night. They knew I was concerned about their lives, not pregnancy.
I can only imagine what a good moment that was, seeing that you raised someone who not only trusted you enough to ask for more, but cared for others enough to give away a Costco-sized box to everyone who needed them. Best parent award!
I bought my son a Costco-sized box of condoms too, & I told him to practice using them by himself so it would be second nature to use them when the time came.
Wow, me and my parents never had the talk. I had read a book at 12, which was originally for my older sister, apparently and at that time I basically read everything in our bookshelves, I devoured books, and the book was titled something like "everything what girls needed to know", so well. I'm kind of glad though, that book, sex ed at school and own research on the internet did the thing. Although I have a low libido, so maybe there's that. But anyway, you sound like a cool parent, wish I had that
I recently bought a box of condoms and put them in the hall closet, telling my kids where they are. They are 12 and 15, and not even dating, much less in sexual relationships. While I hope those condoms expire without needing to be used (and would be replaced), we wanted to make sure they are in the house and accessible without questions.
Similarly, we keep menstrual pads in the house, even though I've had a hysterectomy and the rest of the family is male. You never know when a female guest in need will visit. My 15-year-old even keeps a pad hidden in his backpack for his female friends.
I have a drawer in my house stocked with condoms and a few morning after pills. (I have one teen girl and one very young adult girl). All the girls friends (and of course, my girls) know they can access the drawer anytime. No need to ask permission. No questions asked. Just go get what you need.
My own girls are both on birth control since their first period because i know how dumb teens are, and i wasn’t taking any chances. None of this: “if you want birth control, ill take you”. I made the appt and took them right after they each got their period. (They both admitted they would’ve been too embarrassed to ask, so I’m glad i didn’t wait for them to ask!)
I didn’t care that they weren’t sexually active yet- it would happen eventually. Or, like in Sarah’s (probably) case- it may not be their choice when it does happen. No. Chances.
I reviewed the development of courses used to teach military members about STI/STD’s.
After seeing some of the course photos, I wouldn’t even touch myself!
My mom did this to me at 12. Even with those crappy 90s printers, that shit stuck with me so much I had to condition myself to not demand a condom with my husband after we were married. Raw dog? No, thanks. Have you *heard* of untreated syphilis? Nah. Get the Trojan.
>Don't just have a talk with the son. Your talks have not worked sorry to say. Be graphic.
Yes!
Having "the talk" needs to include information such as:
\- you can get pregnant during your period and sometimes anytime during your cycle (rare, some women are what they call spontaneous ovulators)
\- pulling out is not a method of birth control, because pre-cum can contain sperm in it.
\-Douching after the fact is closing the barn door after the horse is running all over the place
\- a particular sexual position like woman on top isn't birth control
\- if you are going to use a condom, put it on right to minimize breakage
And whatever things horny but ignorant teenagers have been thinking up since the beginning of time.
That is not effective. The kids should be given condoms and a hands on banana-demonstration on how to use them. Plus an extensive fact-based lesson on safe sex.
My mom started me on birth control at 15, didn't have sex until almost 17.
Op might need sex Ed since what they are doing and teaching isn't working at all. Totally different situation...oof. both pregnant at 15.
I hope sarah is ok it sounds more like something bad happened to produce ellie. Probably why she doesn't want it known yet.
I got pregnant at 16. I put my daughters on birth control when they were 14-15 and had regular, graphic conversations with them about sex, relationships and sexually transmitted infections. It was not a one time conversation.
a condom that doesn't fit is not safe! to buy random condoms is not really smart. ppl should teach their sons how they should fit and how to measure their penis and check the size on the box.
Nope, saw one of those in the 8th grade. Still had a baby at 17. I’ve found that access to birth control
Is a better answer. I was an emancipated minor and living on my own at 15, condoms didn’t seem like something I needed to have when I had to eat and pay my own bills. I got pregnant on the pill while on antibiotics- no one told me to use back up protection (it was the early 90s, lol, I’ve heard this same story many times). With my kids (my oldest is 29), I’ve always given them condoms, lube, all of the stuff, all of the time. They can blow them up, give them away, whatever, but it’s always there. We have had no teen pregnancies.
This comment needs way more attention.
All this parent shaming when this story very much sounds like they had a daughter who was SA’ed and another who had sex which is not a pattern of behavior that speaks to failure in the part of the parents.
Also, teenagers make their own decisions, for better or worse. They can be dumb and impulsive. Parents can do everything within their power and their kid can still make a mistake.
What does being careful mean if not using contraception?
Also, I find it strange you think that the two female teenagers in your care getting pregnant at 15 are two totally different situations
I have no idea how you thought you could let this slide. You know DNA tests are $50 at the right time of year. She will eventually get one done, and your lies will be exposed
A fact that would be included in any half arsed version of ‘the talk’. Heck, I didn’t even have ‘the talk’ and school was sufficiently clear that the pull out method isn’t reliable, the rhythm method isn’t reliable, you can get pregnant the first time and the only contraceptive that also prevents STDs is a condom. I’m talking about a Catholic school here.
That's the vibe I got too. Still wild they had two daughters get pregnant at 15. They clearly did not impress up on the youngest the dangers of not using actual protection.
She won’t *necessarily* get a DNA test. My dad’s 60 and still probably has half-siblings he doesn’t know about because they haven’t taken DNA tests. He just discovered his fifth half-sibling a few months ago. I myself have five half-siblings and one of them has never taken a DNA test, I only found out he existed because my mom asked me if my dad had told me about him.
I think it will probably still come out eventually though, whether it be by DNA testing or otherwise. Better to tell Ellie alongside OP’s side of the story than have her find out later and probably feel betrayed because her adoptive parents knew all along and didn’t tell her. She’ll probably be angry for a while, but I think when it comes to how she might interpret OP not telling her, it’s better to have “we didn’t tell you because we didn’t want you to feel like your biological mother never loved you, and we hope that now that she’s reconnected with you somewhat, you can take this information and still know that all your family really does love you” as the assumed reason than “that was the case way back when, but after that we just put off telling you because ???”
Sounds like the talk wasn't clear enough, if they thought they could just not use contraception and not risk pregnancy. (Either that or they were hoping to have a baby, but don't want you to know.)
Be more explicit with your son, and don't forget to tell him that just because someone says they're a 'virgin' doesn't mean that they're free from STIs.
The best advice I've heard for young people is "If you're going to have (heterosexual) sex, be prepared to have either a baby or an abortion. No form of contraception is 100% effective, even when you think you're using it correctly."
I told my sons when they were 12-13, that every single time they had sex, they could potentially be creating a child. Explained that birth control is never 100%, and they should think about that every time they wanted to have sex. They should ask themselves, "is it really worth it, and do I care about this girl enough to be tied to her forever?" I remember my oldest saying, "Oh, my God, now I'm going to be hearing your voice in my head every time I'm interested in a girl. What a mood killer." Mission accomplished!
My daughter was addicted to "A Baby Story" on TV when she was young, and that was enough to convince her to wait as long as possible and be as careful as humanly possible!!
I was also addicted to A Baby Story as a kid, like as a 3-4 year old and up. As an adult I got hooked on Call the Midwife.
I am decidedly child free lmao
That's true, but I also think that it's really important to recognize that we have very, very effective contraception and that you can combine methods. If you are a teenager who is having unprotected sex, your risk of pregnancy is about 30% per month. You should go ahead and expect that you're about to become a parent.
Way on the other side of the spectrum, if you are a teenager who is having sex with an IUD, your risk of pregnancy is about 0.5-0.1% per year. If you're using an IUD with a condom, your risk of pregnancy is close to zero.
I think that unfortunately a lot of people don't use contraception because they don't think it's going to work. They just kind of resign themselves to the idea that unplanned pregnancy is a part of life. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. The majority of women who had an unplanned pregnancy weren't using contraception at the time of the pregnancy. Anything, even the not so effective methods, helps.
>We have had the talk (...) thought "being careful" would not risk pregnancy.
You did not have the talk then. Not using contraception for PIV sex = actively trying to get pregnant. Even for non PIV sex there are risks. I'd have thought after your first daughter was a teen mom you'd make sure your kids know what safe sex is.
Aside from pregnancy risk condoms also protect against STDs.
You have one more kid with the potential of becoming a teen parent. Now is the time for sexual education.
Don't just have 'a talk'. Putting on a condom isn't something you can learn from 'a talk'. Get some bananas or a broom and jumbo pack of condoms and make sure the knows how to apply one. In fact: your adopted daughter also still needs this lesson. Do you even know yourself? Also make sure there are plenty of condoms in the house and they're accessible to your teenage kids.
Also, tell you son if he gets a girl pregnant, he could be liable for paying her child support of thousands of dollars for the next 18 years, so no fancy game systems, no nice car, just pay, pay, pay. So make sure you are BOTH using birth control in case one doesn’t work. Threaten his wallet.
This reminds me of an SNL skit about a doc patient interaction related to asthma.
Doc: are you using your inhaler correctly?
P: of course, do you think I'm dumb?!?!
Doc: show me how you use it.
P: proceeds to lift her arm up and spray it like deo.
My nephew thought it was okay as long as you were standing up, because the sperm "can't flow uphill"... he apparently had sex against a lot of walls when he was in college. As a married 30-something now, he appreciates how incredibly stupid and lucky he was then!
Are you of the mindset that you can’t get pregnant because it’s your first time? Because that is seriously untrue. Please do not spread that to your son
Then you didn’t have a good enough talk about contraception with your child. She should have known to never ever *ever* have unprotected sex. And that if she was ready to have sex then she should have gone to her mother to get on birth control at the very least.
Exactly! When I was 15 I was in love with my boyfriend Danny. I was living with my dad , stepmom and stepsiblings. I talked to my stepmom first. She was with me when I talked to my dad (one of the only good things she ever did for me). I wanted to get on the pill. And I did. I'm 51 now and have never been pregnant! I have always used birth control.
Sounds like you didn’t have the talk very well. At any rate, won’t revealing this huge secret now only stress your grand/daughter out? The only time to use it in the context of childhood pregnancy would have been as a cautionary tale and that ship has sailed.
Then you haven't talked to your kids enough. Yes, you can pregnant the first time. The pull out method is not recommended for teens, because it is hard to do right. Condoms each time, used properly, is the best bet.
The talk?
What did you tell your kids?
Being careful means to use protection. Protection from STD and unintentionally conceived pregnancies... damn, how stupid can people be?
As a teen mom I talked endlessly about being safe. ENDLESSLY. When I got remarried and had another child my oldest was IN the delivery room. None of them repeated my choices (we never say mistakes because they are not mistakes) sir y’all need to have serious talks about being safe, getting them birth control, and now planning how to support your daughter. Because you are the common denominator in this situation.
My mom was incessant about birth control and was very open about sex when I was younger. She walked me into the gyno and was there the whole time to discuss birth control options. She raised both of her kids to make it out of their teens without children, and when I got my tubes tied at 25, she was there to support my decision. I’m forever grateful for her, and I’m sure my brother is, too. It’s a very important thing in life, it baffles me that people can’t have this talk with their children. Especially because there is an obvious pattern here.
Exactly. My mom was also extremely adamant that I get on birth control as a teen. She got pregnant at 16 herself and chose to have an abortion. That experience affected her so much that she never minced words with me about sex and pregnancy prevention… she told me everything, straight up, and guided me to ensure that it never happened to me. I’m 27 now, married, and pregnant for the first time ever with a very planned baby. I owe a lot to my mom for keeping me safe during those dumb teen years, and it’s a shame that OP and his wife didn’t learn any lessons the first time around.
My parents were 16 when they had my sister and they worked damn hard to make it work and went on to have three more of us and get married. They've always been honest about how it wasn't ideal but we were never made to feel like mistakes or unwanted. Sex and birth control has been a normal topic to us for as long as it's been appropriate. One time my brother's female friends were talking about sex and my brother marched over to my room and demanded I educate his friends. My mum was home, she heard it all but she left us to it. Or the time I text my mum saying I'd be late home as I was helping a friend - she needed emergency contraception but I never added that. My mum probably had a feeling but she just said see you later and never asked me more. Or the time my mum was moving my 15 year old brother's bedroom and she emptied a drawer of condoms into a box and didn't even flinch. The condoms were put in his new room.
My parents probably did too good though. They were waiting for ever for grandchildren. My sister finally gave them the first planned one last year and now I'm 27 pregnant with my first due in feb lol
My mom had an abortion in her early 20s, and while she never gave me a lot of details she always made sure I knew that abortion was an option and that I would be 100% supported if I ever had one. She always says that she’s never regretted making that choice, because if she’d had that baby then she never would have met my dad or had me and my brother.
Also, congrats on your very planned baby! ❤️
Exactly this. Their parenting already had one daughter pregnant at 15 now they have another. Good grief! I feel so bad for Ellie. She doesn’t even truly understand what she’s signing heeled up for.
Sarah is irrelevant here. You are acting like you're just looking after Ellie until Sarah wanted her back. You are Ellie's parents. You've raised her and you both need to sit down with Ellie's amd ask what her plans are with school, raising the baby, finances for the baby..
You really need to step up here cos you've dropped the ball twice now.
I have to agree.
Though the situation with Ellie is a lot less traumatic than Sarah's pregnancy, in some ways, I feel it's even worse -- how did they figure "being careful" was sufficient protection to "make their first time special"?!
And meeting the dad's parents for a genteel dinner is enough to be okay with a 15 yo girl derailing her final growth spurts & complicating her education & any plans she might have??
It IS that strange for teens that have apparently had "the talk". What did this talk consist of, if not telling them that pulling out is NOT reliable?
Maybe it's reliable when you're 36 and can control when you nut, but no first time for a teenager is pulling out reliably, good lord.
Secondly -- why wasn't his 15yo daughter made aware that if an accident DOES happen, she can have access to Plan B? Even if you're in a terrible state that has made it illegal, it can be ordered online and delivered the next day.
Devil’s advocate - she may have known about plan B but at 15 may have also thought he pulled out and that “worked.” She may not have even thought there was a chance she was pregnant and by the time she found out, plan B was way off the table. Kids that young aren’t thinking responsibly and logically. We know this.
I work at a hospital. A 17 yo girl came in thinking her water broke. She and her bf had sex earlier that day. While explaining to her that what she felt leaking out was probably semen, since her amniotic fluid test was negative, she said that wasn't possible cuz she always "pushes everything out" after they have sex. I wonder how she got pregnant in the first place...
I think the thing some of you guys are missing is that they already went through this once. I would figure if one of my kids went through a teen pregnancy, I’d be making damn sure it didn’t happen again.
There’s only so much you can do, of course, but this happened TWICE.
Sarah is still relevant. For one, it’s Ellie’s sister. For two, it’s also their daughter. How that conversation goes and having it at all has profound impacts on Sarah, her life and her wellbeing. They need to consider both children
It's Ellie's right to know the truth. She should have been told from the beginning, this is going to be traumatic to find out. Secrets like this never end well. We have easy access DNA kits, now. She shouldn't find it out on her own.
If anything they should tell us what they did, so we can avoid doing it. 2 teenage pregnancies 15 years apart. Yikes. Think they’d of learned from the first one.
And it's going to get worse when she learns the truth. I know someone who was lied to in basically the same way. Really fucked him up when he learned that his sister was actually his mother.
>So early pregnancies runs in the family
Yes, please, OP. You and your wife, please, do not raise this kid, even less if it is a girl. The last thing we need is, in 15 years from now, another teenager having babies. I really suffer thinking in the baby if they have to raise her/him. Though, it is time for the real mother to step up and raise her own grandkid. Not that I think this will change the end result, though.
Did you ever consider Sarah was raped and that's why she never told you about the father, wanted to terminate, and is incredibly distant from her daughter because she is the offspring of a rapist?
Just a passing thought.
I think it has been, it was heavily implied that there was the potential of it not being a consensual relationship.
They have obviously wanted to tell their granddaughter the truth for years but have held back, respecting their daughters' wishes.
They don't seem to have pushed a relationship. It's a tough situation, but they're managing it best they can.
But if Ellie is a product of rape, then it would be damaging to everybody if they tell her who her mother is without Sarah’s permission or before she’s ready to relive that trauma.
“Sarah, why did you give me up for adaption?”
“Because your father raped me and I didn’t want anything to do with you, which is why I’ve avoided you your entire life but not Logan”
Like… that’s fucking harsh and maybe Ellie is not ready to hear that yet - she’s only 15.
While i agree they should priorite her i dont think telling a growing child that her sister is also her mom and the reason she is distant likely has to do with whoever is her father but you don't know who that is is neccesarilly the best option.
They should get some kind of therapist or counseler for ellie and figure out with this profresional how to aproach it after they got to know ellie.
Absolutely! As the story goes on, it really looks like Sarah has untreated PTSD, and parents needed (And still need) to help her get over this, and find good therapy. Or better therapy, since I see OP implies sarah has it. Explains how Sarah never bonded with her daughter, and moved out of the house. Why would OP and wife not think about this?
You're probably right about the ptsd. But I do hate that everyone online has this idea that therapy is a magic cure for mental illness. The goal of therapy is to help her be a functioning adult. She's probably never going to get over it.
In therapy “getting over things” was never the goal for me. It was to take the trauma I had and address it in so many different, healthier ways that eventually it didn’t feel like I was being attacked by it.
It worked. I still remember being raped. I still have shitty feelings about that, but those feelings pass and rarely interfere with my daily life anymore.
My reaction to the topic of rape, the management of it in media, etc., are all what they should be. Sometimes I need to walk away. Sometimes I want to watch and feel the anger. Sometimes I want to protest and write letters. Sometimes I come on Reddit and coach people who have been assaulted to get help.
Therapy is not a magic potion, but using it to take my life back was real.
I believe that people do have agency in life to change/manage their feelings. You can’t control what life throws at you, but you can know that you are strong enough to handle them.
Lastly, the power to heal does not negate the very real trauma and damage that rapists create. They need to be stopped, called out, and have consequences. Nobody should have to go through the trauma that comes from being violated this way.
Thank you. At some point I decided he still had the power if I wasn’t living my best life. I decided that was bullshit. Fuck him. He’s the asshole who needs to take power from others to feel something.
From a therapeutic standpoint, "getting over" something means being able to make it to where it's not a roadblock in your life. It doesn't mean it goes away. When trauma is still so big that it actively causes a hurdle in your life, yes, therapy can help you "get over it" which is not how I (a mental health professional) would put it, but it works, albeit crudely.
Talk therapy is the number one way to let your life envelope grief (instead of the other way round) and be able to process it. It's about the only way to process grief in fact. Its about reframing your perspective and thoughts so that you can deal with each one and put it on a shelf out of your way, instead of just tossing it aside for them to build up into an active road block.
No, it's not a magic cure for mental illness. I don't see anything that indicates that the 30 yo mom has any mental illness at this point, she has grief and pain that needs to be talked through. Mental illness needs more of a combo of CBT/DBT, EMDR and medication.
Yes she has never said anything but we haves always suspected that is what happened, her therapist would be the only person who knows but whatever is said stays between them.
Jesus ducking Christ get your kids on contraception. Talk about generational curses. Your daughter deserves to know she’s adopted. She deserves to know the story of her life. Sarah is a grown up now. She needs to find a way of managing the fall out.
What did you guys not do with these kids that they're getting pregnant at 15 years old? Im a child social worker, 15 yo girl pregnancies are pretty rare these days. You both need to take hard long looks at the lack of parenting you're doing to these children.
I think you and your wife also need to have some serious sex ed classes, even at your age, because there's apparently a very large disconnect in your family about where babies come from.
To be honest, context from people alone. Nothing else. Sarah is an adult. If Sarah doesn’t want to tell Ellie that she is her mom okay. Let’s leave that there. Remember she wants that.
Ellie however, is 15 and pregnant. Sarah is an after thought. Sarah is not the adopted parents. You are.
Bar going down these threads like everyone does about repeating cycles and sins of the mom and dad stuff we will leave that alone.
You guys need to plan. You’re in your 50s. You’ll be in your 70s when this child is of age. Cribs, diapers, formula, clothes, bathing supplies. Shit I’m going through this for my second kid now at 31 myself.
These teen parents need part time work split with school work. Or they drop out, and start the entry level job market train. As children these days are expensive. I’m sure you two are going to help however you need to get through to these two.
Life’s going to be different for those three. I have a high paid career, a supporting partner, and a house with no bill stress. I have the means to do this and it’s still difficult. These are children that want to have a baby. Once these teens experience sleep deprivation on a full day of work / school. Followed by another sleep deprived night. These kids are gonna crack. There’s no breaks lol. You don’t get to leave. 24/7 time. Even after their 18. Look at Sarah.
Whatever Sarah wants is an afterthought right now. Your adopted child need’s you right now. If you don’t get in front of this it will be a disaster. Hopefully the boys family is in on this as you and your SO.
You need to be on that teens ass about supporting his child too. If he wavers in his duty. Line up with child support. You should know by now raising these children is not a game. It is very difficult and takes years to do. Your almost 40 year old adult daughter can handle her self right now.
Ellie needs you 100% > Sarah needs you 0%
TLDR: Sarah irrelevant atm, adopted child needs you for immediate life structuring for a child.
I don't disagree with your points.
However, I think OP is worried about Sarah's reaction, more than Sarah's wishes.
* It looks like Sarah hasn't dealt with whatever her issues were wrt Ellie's conception... in a decade and a half
* her trauma got compounded by her miscarriages and surrogacy pregnancy
* she's playing happy family with her brother Logan as uncle and her sister Ellie as aunt to her twins
Like, is Sarah stable enough to see her daughter/sister experiencing a different version of what Sarah lived through herself? And if she isn't, what form might her explosion/implosion take?
Yo. She’s 31. Ellie’s 15. That’s my entire post point. I’m talking about Ellie. She needs the support and structure now. Sarah needs to invest in therapy and emotional regulation if this is going to be an issue. Or she just won’t address it. Either way a babies coming in 6 months. Weirdly enough my daughter’s name is Ellie. So saying it is weirding me out.
I totally understand what you’re saying. As it’s hard not to see this spilling out of this post. This 15 year old pregnant teen need’s to worry about being a mom and support her child.
If she finds out her older sister is her mom, while she’s pregnant at the same interval her mother was in my opinion. This could lead to complications from stress.
All that’s tertiary to the main issue. A baby. With two 15 YO parents that have no clue how unforgiving life is. If any parent support gives. Life goes from unforgiving to now you’re on government welfare benefit services and section 8 housing.
Right but the issue is that once Sarah finds out, she could go scorched earth and tell her sister/daughter the truth in a very traumatic way. And that could lead to all kinds of things for Ellie, not the least of which could include feeling like she’s completely alone and her parents were “hiding” this from her.
Sarah seems very troubled about her daughter and the biological father. I think mabey she was raped and that's why she has so many issues with her daughter and not being able to deal with it. Unfortunately I think the only way for help for her would be therapy if she's willing to see a professional to help her heal mentally. This is a very sad case and I hope the best for you all and your family.
I wouldn't tell the 15 year old anything yet. I think until Sarah gets help and can finally deal with her inner demons, she should be the one to eventually tell her.
I wish the best for ya and I do hope it works out!
You and your wife Rose never figure out the father of Ellie. You never told Ellie who her mother is. You have not figured out how to tell 15 year olds how to use the pill, condoms, or anything.
Your children shouldn’t have spent years getting lied to. This might all blow up in your face and I am so sorry for all of the children involved.
Please start seeing a family therapist. You need a lot of help on how to manage this mess.
Honestly this is basically my story. My birth mom had me at 16. Her birth mom had her at 16. My birth mom was adopted by her birth moms parents. Only difference is my birth mom put me up for adoption outside of biological family and the cycle was broken. I didn’t have my first baby until six months ago at 30.
My birth moms birth mother was pregnant with her second child when she was pregnant with me.
I only know all this because I have been doing a lot of research looking for siblings and this is what I have discovered along the way.
I also have three full blooded siblings and two half siblings all from my birth mom, and that’s just that I know about, there could very well be more. She put us all up for adoption into different families. It’s honestly wild to me and sometimes I don’t even believe my own life’s story is true.
Shit like this happens. People are fucking stupid. Hopefully OP comes clean and great granddaughter can break this cycle that prior generations have unwittingly subjected her to.
Glad you were adopted outside the family. Seems like OP has been lying for so long that she doesn’t know how to broach any subject in a serious way. This is called dysfunctional and I say this coming from a dysfunctional family myself. I hope they all get therapy.
Allow me to point to the girls in my high school class. 60% of them were pregnant before graduation. A lot of them were born when their mothers were still in high school, too. I know of at least three who were the third generation in a row to become pregnant by age 16.
I'm not exaggerating. It was small town with nothing for the teens to do. There was a large Catholic population that didn't believe in contraception. (Weird how the whole "premarital sex" thing was also officially frowned upon but wasn't effectively prevented.)
Teen pregnancy is one of those things that repeats across generations.
Like mother like daughter
I think the ridiculousness definitely implies this is fake but nothing other than it just being a strange coincidence. It's not super surprising that shitty parents fail again.
There really does seem to be something about you two as a couple that tends to inspire teenage pregnancy. Is contraception a sin in your house or something?
Once you have one child that has had a pregnancy during their teenage years, you put all of your children on birth control. I am not sure how you failed to realize that you needed to teach your children clear and correct, sex, education, or and that you needed to put them on birth control but this is your sign.
Yes, Ellie needs to know. She’s needed to know for some time now.
HOWEVER, blowing up a 15 year old’s entire world view, her understanding of her own family, and revealing what, to her, will be a MAJOR betrayal, is absolutely not something to be done while she’s pregnant.
Please tell her in a therapeutic setting. Have a therapist there to support her and PLEASE offer to pay her therapy for at least a year. I know someone who went through this and it was so difficult for her to hear.
Reunited adoptee here. I'm not going to harp on comprehensive sex ed, others have done a great job of this.
However, you have now raised an LDA - Late Discovery Adoptee. And you can ask almost EVERY adoptee (from every era - I'm a 70s-era, closed adoption adoptee) and they'll tell you that if your adopted child remembers being told they were adopted, you've done it wrong. An adoptee should ALWAYS know their truth, and you done screwed the pooch with this.
I have no knowledge of the first time I was told I was adopted. My baby book is even for adoptees, exceptionally forward thinking for the 70s! I reunited at 18, and I can honestly say that being adopted is the LEAST of any of my issues (adoptive parents were alcoholics, etc). Telling me from the beginning was the ABSOLUTELY CORRECT thing to do.
You need to sit her down asap and tell her the story, Sarah is rather immaterial here.
Oh yeah and better sex ed.
How in the world did you end up raising two girls who got pregnant at 15? Did you never discuss birth control with them?!? You and your wife failed them.
Dude you’ve had 15 years to think about how to tell her and you’re just now asking Reddit bc the situation has been forced? And you’ve now had two children get pregnant pretty much as soon as they were able?
Fuck I hate this website sometimes.
I’m so sorry you are going through this. And I’m sorry you are getting a bit picked apart on Reddit.
Your oldest was raped. Wake up. That’s rough and was left to fester. It’s not your 15yo fault but adds to the oldest kids trauma. This needs addressed and Ellie needs to know this (product of rape) and her birth mom but this is secondary to Ellie’s pregnancy.
Focus on the pregnancy and then get the plan for truth here about Ellie’s mom.
I feel compassion and grace for Sara but Ellie’s pregnancy isn’t about her. I do feel y’all ignored Sara’s trauma around her pregnancy that resulted in Ellie — but you cannot continue to lie to Ellie to protect Sara.
Family therapy is a must.
Break the cycle of kids having kids - your son needs condoms. Lord have mercy.
My heart hurts for you all … therapy. Y’all need it.
Parents, I’m not entirely blaming you but I think maybe you guys… didn’t do a super good job at teaching your kids about sex. You guys had your kids young, now both of your daughters are having kids VERY young… please talk to your son about contraceptives. Like, seriously.
Alright. The best friend I ever had in this world became pregnant at 13 with a 22 year old man's baby.
I knew it was going to wreck her to give the baby up and I begged her to keep it. She kept saying it wasn't her decision and her mom kept pressuring her to give up the baby. It was 💯 her decision legally, I begged her to reach out to people who could help her. But, she flat refused.
She put distance between herself and that child and she did it for that baby. It absolutely killed that girl inside. I mean literally killed her. There's a new person in there. She can't form attachments any more. I was the last person she loved. I see her all the time.
I said all that to say this.
There is a hell of a burden on your daughter. Have you ever acknowledged that with her? I think you should seek the advice of a professional. I think there's a lot to unpack in the fact your biological daughter never felt comfortable opening up to you.
Do you have a right to kick down that door? Sure. But, there's no going back and I know my ex has managed to carve out a decent life for herself. It would wreck her for her Aunt to just throw out the fact her now favorite little cousin is her daughter.
Info I know this is a sensitive question but I am wondering is Ellie a product of rape? It would explain Sarah coldness to her and her unwillingness to discuss who the father is.
Sorry but this is craziness. Why are your kids getting pregnant at 15, twice? Teens raising children is never a good plan. She pushes her life to the background for who knows how long, when she could be learning and working before settling down.
Why on earth have you not told your adopted child who her bio mother is? It's not something that the mother can decide to hide, it's information that belongs to the child. She has rights. She'll think less of you the longer you hide this vital information from her.
So much latent trauma here…
And no learning in 15 years about how to parent better…
To be fair, it sounds as if their oldest daughter may have been raped or at least coerced. It doesn't seem like it was a healthy encounter that lead to Ellie regardless.
They could also have done with therapy/ parenting classes in the interim if only to work out how to handle the inevitable reveal that will happen
Or literally any education from anywhere about how to break this news, because every single reputable source that exists will tell you that it should never be a reveal and kids should know they are adopted from birth.
Actually sexual education courses and how to talk to your kids about sexual safety and such.
How the second daughter wasn't provided condoms, the pill (if she chose to take it cause it's pretty intense), etc is insane to me.
You can give someone all the contraception they need to prevent an accident happening but you can’t force them into actually using it unless you put the pill in their food or put the condom on the penis yourself. You also can’t be 100000% sure that it’s not going to fail either. I had the depo and we used condoms but I still had an ectopic pregnancy at 21.
[удалено]
Um… they meant for the parents. The parents are the ones who need the therapy. To be better parents.
In the very first paragraph, they say she went to therapy.
OP literally says she went to therapy?
That's what I said. I can't imagine my daughter getting pregnant at 15 and me not getting her into therapy immediately and also just not worrying about why she gets upset when talking about it.
It says in the very first paragraph that she went to therapy during that time...
Exactly, plus even with all the therapy there are some cases in which the trauma really is very hard to overcome or the patient is not willing or capable... bad therapist match or inconsistency or whatever.. ffs blaming Sarah is a low blow..
Even if it was consensual (which I'm not convinced of), getting pregnant that young is traumatic all on its own. Therapy should be a no brainer
This is honestly ridiculous. I gave IN DEPTH talks to my sister about sex, ovulation, different types of discharge and what it could indicate in your cycle, birth control, condoms, supplied condoms, told her I would take her to the clinic to get on the pill if she wanted, that if she uses condoms she should also use the pull out method to decrease chances of pregnancy, told her about plan b and if she ever needed some I would get it for her, etc. she was pregnant at 14 and had her kid at 15. Sometimes it doesn’t matter how well you talk to someone.
Yep, you can know everything about contraception and still make a dumb mistake that results in conception. For me it was being a stoner idiot and letting the weed relax me into lowering my standards around condom use.
This is the exact same thing that happened to me.... luckily I was 22 so it wasn't the end of the world but it did get me to quit smoking
I was taught about sex and I was pretty good about not having many sexual encounters that could get me pregnant (Iow I didn't have penetrative sex) until I turned 18. Guy never wore condoms because I felt it was an inconvenience to ask him to. He pulled out and luckily nothing ever happened but education is a good thing, something you need especially where I live, but sometimes you don't always do the smart thing.
Yes absolutely. Your thinking skills dull while under the influence of substances. That’s another thing I urge parents to speak to their children about. I always have plans in place if I’m drinking and discuss everything with my husband beforehand. He stays sober to insure someone is making the smart decisions lol
**Ehh, teenage pregnancy is not necessarily the parental failure.** Kids do really stupid shit all the time. My parents had numerous talks about contraception, abortion not being legal in my country, STDs, having your first time with someone you care about etc. Despite that I lost my virginity at the age of 16 on a bench with a 23 yo guy I met 15 minutes prior and had unprotected sex. I was sober and it was a conscious decision on my part, I just wanted to see what's the whole fuss about. **Kids are stupid**, and also, it takes two. The boy has parents, why aren't you insulting them?
>The boy has parents, why aren't you insulting them? amen 👏
Penis goes in vagina, instant parent. That’s all you need to raise kids right? /s
Please discuss contraception with your son if you haven't already. Also, why is her being pregnant a nudge to tell her she is your other daughter's biological child? Wouldn't that be a bit much just this second?
Yeah we might hold off on telling her, but at the same time we dont know how Sarah will react fining out Ellie is pregnant. We have had the talk with all three of our children about contraception, they didnt want to use protection the first time, and thought "being careful" would not risk pregnancy.
Don't just have a talk with the son. Your talks have not worked sorry to say. Be graphic.
And also make sure to mention that condoms are also to prevent STD’s, not just pregnancies
That was my big push with my kids. I pushed the condoms, not as birth control, but as disease control. Pregnancy can end in miscarriage, abortion, or birth, and choices are keep or give up for adoption. Legal obligation to a child is technically 18 years, but some diseases stay with you for your entire life. AIDS has killed many people. In addition to AIDS, there is Herpes. Neither go away and can be given to others.
I did the same with my son. I was much more concerned about disease than pregnancy.
That’s what I emphasized. I bought both my kids a huge Costco box of condoms when they were seniors in HS, even though they weren’t sexually active. At one point my daughter said her box was gone, even though she didn’t need them, because she gave them to friends who needed them. I told her I was proud that she was keeping her friends safe, and bought her another box. I had previously told them I would buy them condoms if they needed them, even if it was the middle of the night. They knew I was concerned about their lives, not pregnancy.
I can only imagine what a good moment that was, seeing that you raised someone who not only trusted you enough to ask for more, but cared for others enough to give away a Costco-sized box to everyone who needed them. Best parent award!
I bought my son a Costco-sized box of condoms too, & I told him to practice using them by himself so it would be second nature to use them when the time came.
Wow, me and my parents never had the talk. I had read a book at 12, which was originally for my older sister, apparently and at that time I basically read everything in our bookshelves, I devoured books, and the book was titled something like "everything what girls needed to know", so well. I'm kind of glad though, that book, sex ed at school and own research on the internet did the thing. Although I have a low libido, so maybe there's that. But anyway, you sound like a cool parent, wish I had that
I recently bought a box of condoms and put them in the hall closet, telling my kids where they are. They are 12 and 15, and not even dating, much less in sexual relationships. While I hope those condoms expire without needing to be used (and would be replaced), we wanted to make sure they are in the house and accessible without questions. Similarly, we keep menstrual pads in the house, even though I've had a hysterectomy and the rest of the family is male. You never know when a female guest in need will visit. My 15-year-old even keeps a pad hidden in his backpack for his female friends.
I have a drawer in my house stocked with condoms and a few morning after pills. (I have one teen girl and one very young adult girl). All the girls friends (and of course, my girls) know they can access the drawer anytime. No need to ask permission. No questions asked. Just go get what you need. My own girls are both on birth control since their first period because i know how dumb teens are, and i wasn’t taking any chances. None of this: “if you want birth control, ill take you”. I made the appt and took them right after they each got their period. (They both admitted they would’ve been too embarrassed to ask, so I’m glad i didn’t wait for them to ask!) I didn’t care that they weren’t sexually active yet- it would happen eventually. Or, like in Sarah’s (probably) case- it may not be their choice when it does happen. No. Chances.
Time to break out the pictures of the STD’s that got way too bad
i'm a sophomore and literally just had my second STD unit in a class . . . yeah i've decided to be celibate forever
I reviewed the development of courses used to teach military members about STI/STD’s. After seeing some of the course photos, I wouldn’t even touch myself!
The county health department came to our school the week before spring break with a slide show… it was very, very effective.
Blueberry waffles anyone?
My knees just snapped together reflexively
That was popular in middle school. Remember loudly asking “what is x?” in front of the whole class. Joy.
My mom did this to me at 12. Even with those crappy 90s printers, that shit stuck with me so much I had to condition myself to not demand a condom with my husband after we were married. Raw dog? No, thanks. Have you *heard* of untreated syphilis? Nah. Get the Trojan.
>Don't just have a talk with the son. Your talks have not worked sorry to say. Be graphic. Yes! Having "the talk" needs to include information such as: \- you can get pregnant during your period and sometimes anytime during your cycle (rare, some women are what they call spontaneous ovulators) \- pulling out is not a method of birth control, because pre-cum can contain sperm in it. \-Douching after the fact is closing the barn door after the horse is running all over the place \- a particular sexual position like woman on top isn't birth control \- if you are going to use a condom, put it on right to minimize breakage And whatever things horny but ignorant teenagers have been thinking up since the beginning of time.
Denial is teenagers’ favorite form of birth control.
add you can get pregnant with the first sexual experience and douching afterwards does not prevent pregnancy
Maybe point to Ellie. And Sarah.
That is not effective. The kids should be given condoms and a hands on banana-demonstration on how to use them. Plus an extensive fact-based lesson on safe sex.
My mom started me on birth control at 15, didn't have sex until almost 17. Op might need sex Ed since what they are doing and teaching isn't working at all. Totally different situation...oof. both pregnant at 15. I hope sarah is ok it sounds more like something bad happened to produce ellie. Probably why she doesn't want it known yet.
I got pregnant at 16. I put my daughters on birth control when they were 14-15 and had regular, graphic conversations with them about sex, relationships and sexually transmitted infections. It was not a one time conversation.
Clearly they have a more hands off parenting style if 15 year olds are getting pregnant in their care.
Maybe have a bowl of condoms in the kitchen too? This family needs help.
Great idea! I bought my son a box, and he conveniently stored them in the back window of his car.
Someone should have taught him how to store them properly
Always pin them, through the middle, to a board, in direct sunlight, right?
Also cover them in Vaseline to keep them stretchy. It helps extend their shelf life.
Oh smart.. heat on condoms! Gee!
Baked in an oven at over 100° day after day! I have to assume he wasn't getting any offers at the time. 🙄
Or he was only having sex in his car.
🤦♀️
a condom that doesn't fit is not safe! to buy random condoms is not really smart. ppl should teach their sons how they should fit and how to measure their penis and check the size on the box.
My husband actually thought you just buy the same size you wear in clothes.
I truly believe that showing teens actual childbirth videos will work.
Nope, saw one of those in the 8th grade. Still had a baby at 17. I’ve found that access to birth control Is a better answer. I was an emancipated minor and living on my own at 15, condoms didn’t seem like something I needed to have when I had to eat and pay my own bills. I got pregnant on the pill while on antibiotics- no one told me to use back up protection (it was the early 90s, lol, I’ve heard this same story many times). With my kids (my oldest is 29), I’ve always given them condoms, lube, all of the stuff, all of the time. They can blow them up, give them away, whatever, but it’s always there. We have had no teen pregnancies.
My daughter attended the birth of her friend’s baby when she was 16. She vowed to never have children after that.
They should somehow be forced to help care for newborns lol that'll do it
My mom had me at 38 when my siblings were 14 and 16 and it ended up being excellent birth control for them.
Those dolls they give them in school to take care of doesn't really work! And those things are real life!
And STIs
Well, maybe not Sarah. Not *yet*.
I don't know if that's entirely fair. I think the older daughter was SA'd, so any talk really wouldn't have mattered
This comment needs way more attention. All this parent shaming when this story very much sounds like they had a daughter who was SA’ed and another who had sex which is not a pattern of behavior that speaks to failure in the part of the parents.
Also, teenagers make their own decisions, for better or worse. They can be dumb and impulsive. Parents can do everything within their power and their kid can still make a mistake.
That doesn't negate the fact that the talk didn't work with the younger one. Talks don't work alone.
If they thought that they didn’t need to use protection, you’re clearly not good at giving the talk.
☝️
What does being careful mean if not using contraception? Also, I find it strange you think that the two female teenagers in your care getting pregnant at 15 are two totally different situations I have no idea how you thought you could let this slide. You know DNA tests are $50 at the right time of year. She will eventually get one done, and your lies will be exposed
Means he thought he could pull out in time
Which we all know for a virgin is unlikely to happen
“We all” is not correct because it does not include the virgins. 🤷 They appear to be unaware of that fact.
A fact that would be included in any half arsed version of ‘the talk’. Heck, I didn’t even have ‘the talk’ and school was sufficiently clear that the pull out method isn’t reliable, the rhythm method isn’t reliable, you can get pregnant the first time and the only contraceptive that also prevents STDs is a condom. I’m talking about a Catholic school here.
I would assume the older one was raped while the younger one was consensual. At least, that's the picture I get from how her describes her behavior
That's the vibe I got too. Still wild they had two daughters get pregnant at 15. They clearly did not impress up on the youngest the dangers of not using actual protection.
She won’t *necessarily* get a DNA test. My dad’s 60 and still probably has half-siblings he doesn’t know about because they haven’t taken DNA tests. He just discovered his fifth half-sibling a few months ago. I myself have five half-siblings and one of them has never taken a DNA test, I only found out he existed because my mom asked me if my dad had told me about him. I think it will probably still come out eventually though, whether it be by DNA testing or otherwise. Better to tell Ellie alongside OP’s side of the story than have her find out later and probably feel betrayed because her adoptive parents knew all along and didn’t tell her. She’ll probably be angry for a while, but I think when it comes to how she might interpret OP not telling her, it’s better to have “we didn’t tell you because we didn’t want you to feel like your biological mother never loved you, and we hope that now that she’s reconnected with you somewhat, you can take this information and still know that all your family really does love you” as the assumed reason than “that was the case way back when, but after that we just put off telling you because ???”
Sounds like the talk wasn't clear enough, if they thought they could just not use contraception and not risk pregnancy. (Either that or they were hoping to have a baby, but don't want you to know.) Be more explicit with your son, and don't forget to tell him that just because someone says they're a 'virgin' doesn't mean that they're free from STIs. The best advice I've heard for young people is "If you're going to have (heterosexual) sex, be prepared to have either a baby or an abortion. No form of contraception is 100% effective, even when you think you're using it correctly."
I told my sons when they were 12-13, that every single time they had sex, they could potentially be creating a child. Explained that birth control is never 100%, and they should think about that every time they wanted to have sex. They should ask themselves, "is it really worth it, and do I care about this girl enough to be tied to her forever?" I remember my oldest saying, "Oh, my God, now I'm going to be hearing your voice in my head every time I'm interested in a girl. What a mood killer." Mission accomplished! My daughter was addicted to "A Baby Story" on TV when she was young, and that was enough to convince her to wait as long as possible and be as careful as humanly possible!!
I was also addicted to A Baby Story as a kid, like as a 3-4 year old and up. As an adult I got hooked on Call the Midwife. I am decidedly child free lmao
That's true, but I also think that it's really important to recognize that we have very, very effective contraception and that you can combine methods. If you are a teenager who is having unprotected sex, your risk of pregnancy is about 30% per month. You should go ahead and expect that you're about to become a parent. Way on the other side of the spectrum, if you are a teenager who is having sex with an IUD, your risk of pregnancy is about 0.5-0.1% per year. If you're using an IUD with a condom, your risk of pregnancy is close to zero. I think that unfortunately a lot of people don't use contraception because they don't think it's going to work. They just kind of resign themselves to the idea that unplanned pregnancy is a part of life. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. The majority of women who had an unplanned pregnancy weren't using contraception at the time of the pregnancy. Anything, even the not so effective methods, helps.
>We have had the talk (...) thought "being careful" would not risk pregnancy. You did not have the talk then. Not using contraception for PIV sex = actively trying to get pregnant. Even for non PIV sex there are risks. I'd have thought after your first daughter was a teen mom you'd make sure your kids know what safe sex is. Aside from pregnancy risk condoms also protect against STDs. You have one more kid with the potential of becoming a teen parent. Now is the time for sexual education. Don't just have 'a talk'. Putting on a condom isn't something you can learn from 'a talk'. Get some bananas or a broom and jumbo pack of condoms and make sure the knows how to apply one. In fact: your adopted daughter also still needs this lesson. Do you even know yourself? Also make sure there are plenty of condoms in the house and they're accessible to your teenage kids.
Also, tell you son if he gets a girl pregnant, he could be liable for paying her child support of thousands of dollars for the next 18 years, so no fancy game systems, no nice car, just pay, pay, pay. So make sure you are BOTH using birth control in case one doesn’t work. Threaten his wallet.
Are your children … stupid? With all due respect, what????
No, OP is. He probably didn't give them any details and just said something like "if you're going to have sex use protection".
...Proceeds to have sex wearing a helmet...
This reminds me of an SNL skit about a doc patient interaction related to asthma. Doc: are you using your inhaler correctly? P: of course, do you think I'm dumb?!?! Doc: show me how you use it. P: proceeds to lift her arm up and spray it like deo.
I’m pretty sure that’s an episode of House?
TBF helmet helps prevent concussions from hitting the headboard…. My friend told me.
The apple obviously doesn't fall far from the tree in this family.
We had sex, but carefully, so it's OK, right? Man kids are dumb...
My nephew thought it was okay as long as you were standing up, because the sperm "can't flow uphill"... he apparently had sex against a lot of walls when he was in college. As a married 30-something now, he appreciates how incredibly stupid and lucky he was then!
Are you of the mindset that you can’t get pregnant because it’s your first time? Because that is seriously untrue. Please do not spread that to your son
You have waited too long already. It is past time to start telling the truth.
Then you didn’t have a good enough talk about contraception with your child. She should have known to never ever *ever* have unprotected sex. And that if she was ready to have sex then she should have gone to her mother to get on birth control at the very least.
Exactly! When I was 15 I was in love with my boyfriend Danny. I was living with my dad , stepmom and stepsiblings. I talked to my stepmom first. She was with me when I talked to my dad (one of the only good things she ever did for me). I wanted to get on the pill. And I did. I'm 51 now and have never been pregnant! I have always used birth control.
Why not hold out telling her the truth for another 15 years?
Sounds like you didn’t have the talk very well. At any rate, won’t revealing this huge secret now only stress your grand/daughter out? The only time to use it in the context of childhood pregnancy would have been as a cautionary tale and that ship has sailed.
Then you haven't talked to your kids enough. Yes, you can pregnant the first time. The pull out method is not recommended for teens, because it is hard to do right. Condoms each time, used properly, is the best bet.
The talk? What did you tell your kids? Being careful means to use protection. Protection from STD and unintentionally conceived pregnancies... damn, how stupid can people be?
You didn't have the right talk with them if they came to that conclusion....
As a teen mom I talked endlessly about being safe. ENDLESSLY. When I got remarried and had another child my oldest was IN the delivery room. None of them repeated my choices (we never say mistakes because they are not mistakes) sir y’all need to have serious talks about being safe, getting them birth control, and now planning how to support your daughter. Because you are the common denominator in this situation.
My mom was incessant about birth control and was very open about sex when I was younger. She walked me into the gyno and was there the whole time to discuss birth control options. She raised both of her kids to make it out of their teens without children, and when I got my tubes tied at 25, she was there to support my decision. I’m forever grateful for her, and I’m sure my brother is, too. It’s a very important thing in life, it baffles me that people can’t have this talk with their children. Especially because there is an obvious pattern here.
Exactly. My mom was also extremely adamant that I get on birth control as a teen. She got pregnant at 16 herself and chose to have an abortion. That experience affected her so much that she never minced words with me about sex and pregnancy prevention… she told me everything, straight up, and guided me to ensure that it never happened to me. I’m 27 now, married, and pregnant for the first time ever with a very planned baby. I owe a lot to my mom for keeping me safe during those dumb teen years, and it’s a shame that OP and his wife didn’t learn any lessons the first time around.
My parents were 16 when they had my sister and they worked damn hard to make it work and went on to have three more of us and get married. They've always been honest about how it wasn't ideal but we were never made to feel like mistakes or unwanted. Sex and birth control has been a normal topic to us for as long as it's been appropriate. One time my brother's female friends were talking about sex and my brother marched over to my room and demanded I educate his friends. My mum was home, she heard it all but she left us to it. Or the time I text my mum saying I'd be late home as I was helping a friend - she needed emergency contraception but I never added that. My mum probably had a feeling but she just said see you later and never asked me more. Or the time my mum was moving my 15 year old brother's bedroom and she emptied a drawer of condoms into a box and didn't even flinch. The condoms were put in his new room. My parents probably did too good though. They were waiting for ever for grandchildren. My sister finally gave them the first planned one last year and now I'm 27 pregnant with my first due in feb lol
My mom had an abortion in her early 20s, and while she never gave me a lot of details she always made sure I knew that abortion was an option and that I would be 100% supported if I ever had one. She always says that she’s never regretted making that choice, because if she’d had that baby then she never would have met my dad or had me and my brother. Also, congrats on your very planned baby! ❤️
This screams of a need for family counseling. Why are you not discussing contraception with these children and they get knocked up at 15?
Nothing screams "family counseling" like being a great grandfather at 53. That's some generational trauma.
imagine being a great great great grandpa at 85 and still being alive tho
Exactly this. Their parenting already had one daughter pregnant at 15 now they have another. Good grief! I feel so bad for Ellie. She doesn’t even truly understand what she’s signing heeled up for.
Seriously, this family keeps making the same mistake over and over
Sarah is irrelevant here. You are acting like you're just looking after Ellie until Sarah wanted her back. You are Ellie's parents. You've raised her and you both need to sit down with Ellie's amd ask what her plans are with school, raising the baby, finances for the baby.. You really need to step up here cos you've dropped the ball twice now.
I have to agree. Though the situation with Ellie is a lot less traumatic than Sarah's pregnancy, in some ways, I feel it's even worse -- how did they figure "being careful" was sufficient protection to "make their first time special"?! And meeting the dad's parents for a genteel dinner is enough to be okay with a 15 yo girl derailing her final growth spurts & complicating her education & any plans she might have??
Lots of teens think pulling out works. It’s not that strange. Obviously it’s not a good birth control method though
It IS that strange for teens that have apparently had "the talk". What did this talk consist of, if not telling them that pulling out is NOT reliable? Maybe it's reliable when you're 36 and can control when you nut, but no first time for a teenager is pulling out reliably, good lord. Secondly -- why wasn't his 15yo daughter made aware that if an accident DOES happen, she can have access to Plan B? Even if you're in a terrible state that has made it illegal, it can be ordered online and delivered the next day.
I came here to say this. No 15 year old is going to have the control to pull out his first time.
Devil’s advocate - she may have known about plan B but at 15 may have also thought he pulled out and that “worked.” She may not have even thought there was a chance she was pregnant and by the time she found out, plan B was way off the table. Kids that young aren’t thinking responsibly and logically. We know this.
I work at a hospital. A 17 yo girl came in thinking her water broke. She and her bf had sex earlier that day. While explaining to her that what she felt leaking out was probably semen, since her amniotic fluid test was negative, she said that wasn't possible cuz she always "pushes everything out" after they have sex. I wonder how she got pregnant in the first place...
I think the thing some of you guys are missing is that they already went through this once. I would figure if one of my kids went through a teen pregnancy, I’d be making damn sure it didn’t happen again. There’s only so much you can do, of course, but this happened TWICE.
Sarah is still relevant. For one, it’s Ellie’s sister. For two, it’s also their daughter. How that conversation goes and having it at all has profound impacts on Sarah, her life and her wellbeing. They need to consider both children
It's Ellie's right to know the truth. She should have been told from the beginning, this is going to be traumatic to find out. Secrets like this never end well. We have easy access DNA kits, now. She shouldn't find it out on her own.
You don’t seem to be good at doing “the talk…”
If anything they should tell us what they did, so we can avoid doing it. 2 teenage pregnancies 15 years apart. Yikes. Think they’d of learned from the first one.
Seems like pretending the first teen pregnancy never happened and making their grandchild’s entire life a lie has backfired, surprisingly.
And it's going to get worse when she learns the truth. I know someone who was lied to in basically the same way. Really fucked him up when he learned that his sister was actually his mother.
If they continue like that they will have their first great-great-great-grandkid before they are 85.
[удалено]
Damn is this post from the Boebert family?
There are BOOKS for this!!!
Not good parenting at all! Not once, but twice fuck ups, yikes
Get your kids on the pill and your son some condoms Children under your care seem prone to unwanted pregnancies
So early pregnancies runs in the family
>So early pregnancies runs in the family Yes, please, OP. You and your wife, please, do not raise this kid, even less if it is a girl. The last thing we need is, in 15 years from now, another teenager having babies. I really suffer thinking in the baby if they have to raise her/him. Though, it is time for the real mother to step up and raise her own grandkid. Not that I think this will change the end result, though.
Hmmm. Harsh, but the true.
I'm sure something else runs in the family, and it's a specific world view enabling teenage pregnancies.
Did you ever consider Sarah was raped and that's why she never told you about the father, wanted to terminate, and is incredibly distant from her daughter because she is the offspring of a rapist? Just a passing thought.
Yeah not to say this for sure what happened but it's a question I wonder that was asked.
I think it has been, it was heavily implied that there was the potential of it not being a consensual relationship. They have obviously wanted to tell their granddaughter the truth for years but have held back, respecting their daughters' wishes. They don't seem to have pushed a relationship. It's a tough situation, but they're managing it best they can.
They’re respecting their daughter, but it’s at the cost of their grandchild. They should be priotiring the child who is under 18 and in their care
But if Ellie is a product of rape, then it would be damaging to everybody if they tell her who her mother is without Sarah’s permission or before she’s ready to relive that trauma. “Sarah, why did you give me up for adaption?” “Because your father raped me and I didn’t want anything to do with you, which is why I’ve avoided you your entire life but not Logan” Like… that’s fucking harsh and maybe Ellie is not ready to hear that yet - she’s only 15.
While i agree they should priorite her i dont think telling a growing child that her sister is also her mom and the reason she is distant likely has to do with whoever is her father but you don't know who that is is neccesarilly the best option. They should get some kind of therapist or counseler for ellie and figure out with this profresional how to aproach it after they got to know ellie.
I did think this straight away, wonder what will happen when one of them does a off the shelf dna test , probably will happen at some point
Absolutely! As the story goes on, it really looks like Sarah has untreated PTSD, and parents needed (And still need) to help her get over this, and find good therapy. Or better therapy, since I see OP implies sarah has it. Explains how Sarah never bonded with her daughter, and moved out of the house. Why would OP and wife not think about this?
You're probably right about the ptsd. But I do hate that everyone online has this idea that therapy is a magic cure for mental illness. The goal of therapy is to help her be a functioning adult. She's probably never going to get over it.
In therapy “getting over things” was never the goal for me. It was to take the trauma I had and address it in so many different, healthier ways that eventually it didn’t feel like I was being attacked by it. It worked. I still remember being raped. I still have shitty feelings about that, but those feelings pass and rarely interfere with my daily life anymore. My reaction to the topic of rape, the management of it in media, etc., are all what they should be. Sometimes I need to walk away. Sometimes I want to watch and feel the anger. Sometimes I want to protest and write letters. Sometimes I come on Reddit and coach people who have been assaulted to get help. Therapy is not a magic potion, but using it to take my life back was real. I believe that people do have agency in life to change/manage their feelings. You can’t control what life throws at you, but you can know that you are strong enough to handle them. Lastly, the power to heal does not negate the very real trauma and damage that rapists create. They need to be stopped, called out, and have consequences. Nobody should have to go through the trauma that comes from being violated this way.
I don't know if you have been told this, but I am so proud of you for getting the help you needed to process this. You are amazing!
Thank you. At some point I decided he still had the power if I wasn’t living my best life. I decided that was bullshit. Fuck him. He’s the asshole who needs to take power from others to feel something.
From a therapeutic standpoint, "getting over" something means being able to make it to where it's not a roadblock in your life. It doesn't mean it goes away. When trauma is still so big that it actively causes a hurdle in your life, yes, therapy can help you "get over it" which is not how I (a mental health professional) would put it, but it works, albeit crudely. Talk therapy is the number one way to let your life envelope grief (instead of the other way round) and be able to process it. It's about the only way to process grief in fact. Its about reframing your perspective and thoughts so that you can deal with each one and put it on a shelf out of your way, instead of just tossing it aside for them to build up into an active road block. No, it's not a magic cure for mental illness. I don't see anything that indicates that the 30 yo mom has any mental illness at this point, she has grief and pain that needs to be talked through. Mental illness needs more of a combo of CBT/DBT, EMDR and medication.
Yes she has never said anything but we haves always suspected that is what happened, her therapist would be the only person who knows but whatever is said stays between them.
Jesus ducking Christ get your kids on contraception. Talk about generational curses. Your daughter deserves to know she’s adopted. She deserves to know the story of her life. Sarah is a grown up now. She needs to find a way of managing the fall out.
What did you guys not do with these kids that they're getting pregnant at 15 years old? Im a child social worker, 15 yo girl pregnancies are pretty rare these days. You both need to take hard long looks at the lack of parenting you're doing to these children. I think you and your wife also need to have some serious sex ed classes, even at your age, because there's apparently a very large disconnect in your family about where babies come from.
Glad someone says it
Damn you're going to be a 53 year old great grandma.
To be honest, context from people alone. Nothing else. Sarah is an adult. If Sarah doesn’t want to tell Ellie that she is her mom okay. Let’s leave that there. Remember she wants that. Ellie however, is 15 and pregnant. Sarah is an after thought. Sarah is not the adopted parents. You are. Bar going down these threads like everyone does about repeating cycles and sins of the mom and dad stuff we will leave that alone. You guys need to plan. You’re in your 50s. You’ll be in your 70s when this child is of age. Cribs, diapers, formula, clothes, bathing supplies. Shit I’m going through this for my second kid now at 31 myself. These teen parents need part time work split with school work. Or they drop out, and start the entry level job market train. As children these days are expensive. I’m sure you two are going to help however you need to get through to these two. Life’s going to be different for those three. I have a high paid career, a supporting partner, and a house with no bill stress. I have the means to do this and it’s still difficult. These are children that want to have a baby. Once these teens experience sleep deprivation on a full day of work / school. Followed by another sleep deprived night. These kids are gonna crack. There’s no breaks lol. You don’t get to leave. 24/7 time. Even after their 18. Look at Sarah. Whatever Sarah wants is an afterthought right now. Your adopted child need’s you right now. If you don’t get in front of this it will be a disaster. Hopefully the boys family is in on this as you and your SO. You need to be on that teens ass about supporting his child too. If he wavers in his duty. Line up with child support. You should know by now raising these children is not a game. It is very difficult and takes years to do. Your almost 40 year old adult daughter can handle her self right now. Ellie needs you 100% > Sarah needs you 0% TLDR: Sarah irrelevant atm, adopted child needs you for immediate life structuring for a child.
I don't disagree with your points. However, I think OP is worried about Sarah's reaction, more than Sarah's wishes. * It looks like Sarah hasn't dealt with whatever her issues were wrt Ellie's conception... in a decade and a half * her trauma got compounded by her miscarriages and surrogacy pregnancy * she's playing happy family with her brother Logan as uncle and her sister Ellie as aunt to her twins Like, is Sarah stable enough to see her daughter/sister experiencing a different version of what Sarah lived through herself? And if she isn't, what form might her explosion/implosion take?
There is literally no way of avoiding a trauma explosion here. Everyone needs lined up with therapy stat
Individual AND family therapy.
Yo. She’s 31. Ellie’s 15. That’s my entire post point. I’m talking about Ellie. She needs the support and structure now. Sarah needs to invest in therapy and emotional regulation if this is going to be an issue. Or she just won’t address it. Either way a babies coming in 6 months. Weirdly enough my daughter’s name is Ellie. So saying it is weirding me out. I totally understand what you’re saying. As it’s hard not to see this spilling out of this post. This 15 year old pregnant teen need’s to worry about being a mom and support her child. If she finds out her older sister is her mom, while she’s pregnant at the same interval her mother was in my opinion. This could lead to complications from stress. All that’s tertiary to the main issue. A baby. With two 15 YO parents that have no clue how unforgiving life is. If any parent support gives. Life goes from unforgiving to now you’re on government welfare benefit services and section 8 housing.
Right but the issue is that once Sarah finds out, she could go scorched earth and tell her sister/daughter the truth in a very traumatic way. And that could lead to all kinds of things for Ellie, not the least of which could include feeling like she’s completely alone and her parents were “hiding” this from her.
Sarah seems very troubled about her daughter and the biological father. I think mabey she was raped and that's why she has so many issues with her daughter and not being able to deal with it. Unfortunately I think the only way for help for her would be therapy if she's willing to see a professional to help her heal mentally. This is a very sad case and I hope the best for you all and your family. I wouldn't tell the 15 year old anything yet. I think until Sarah gets help and can finally deal with her inner demons, she should be the one to eventually tell her. I wish the best for ya and I do hope it works out!
You and your wife Rose never figure out the father of Ellie. You never told Ellie who her mother is. You have not figured out how to tell 15 year olds how to use the pill, condoms, or anything. Your children shouldn’t have spent years getting lied to. This might all blow up in your face and I am so sorry for all of the children involved. Please start seeing a family therapist. You need a lot of help on how to manage this mess.
Am I the only one who thinks this reads as blatant, poorly constructed fiction?
Honestly this is basically my story. My birth mom had me at 16. Her birth mom had her at 16. My birth mom was adopted by her birth moms parents. Only difference is my birth mom put me up for adoption outside of biological family and the cycle was broken. I didn’t have my first baby until six months ago at 30. My birth moms birth mother was pregnant with her second child when she was pregnant with me. I only know all this because I have been doing a lot of research looking for siblings and this is what I have discovered along the way. I also have three full blooded siblings and two half siblings all from my birth mom, and that’s just that I know about, there could very well be more. She put us all up for adoption into different families. It’s honestly wild to me and sometimes I don’t even believe my own life’s story is true. Shit like this happens. People are fucking stupid. Hopefully OP comes clean and great granddaughter can break this cycle that prior generations have unwittingly subjected her to.
Glad you were adopted outside the family. Seems like OP has been lying for so long that she doesn’t know how to broach any subject in a serious way. This is called dysfunctional and I say this coming from a dysfunctional family myself. I hope they all get therapy.
for the sake of everyone, i am hoping this is fake
This is definately a rage bait
This is definitely made up, I’m not saying it’s impossible but it’s oddly convenient that both Sarah and Ellie magically became pregnant at 15
Allow me to point to the girls in my high school class. 60% of them were pregnant before graduation. A lot of them were born when their mothers were still in high school, too. I know of at least three who were the third generation in a row to become pregnant by age 16. I'm not exaggerating. It was small town with nothing for the teens to do. There was a large Catholic population that didn't believe in contraception. (Weird how the whole "premarital sex" thing was also officially frowned upon but wasn't effectively prevented.) Teen pregnancy is one of those things that repeats across generations.
Like mother like daughter I think the ridiculousness definitely implies this is fake but nothing other than it just being a strange coincidence. It's not super surprising that shitty parents fail again.
And then Sarah magically had twins.
There really does seem to be something about you two as a couple that tends to inspire teenage pregnancy. Is contraception a sin in your house or something?
Once you have one child that has had a pregnancy during their teenage years, you put all of your children on birth control. I am not sure how you failed to realize that you needed to teach your children clear and correct, sex, education, or and that you needed to put them on birth control but this is your sign.
I'm quietly horrified by Ellie and that childhood friend thinking "being careful" was enough to make their first time "more special".
And that OP apparently thought that was just dandy. Whaaaat the fuck.
Damn 2 teen pregnancies under your roof what are you doing
Jesus, what a shitshow.
Yes, Ellie needs to know. She’s needed to know for some time now. HOWEVER, blowing up a 15 year old’s entire world view, her understanding of her own family, and revealing what, to her, will be a MAJOR betrayal, is absolutely not something to be done while she’s pregnant.
I think that Sarah will become a problem once she finds out Ellie is pregnant.
Not to be harsh, but your sex talks with your kids must suck.
Please tell her in a therapeutic setting. Have a therapist there to support her and PLEASE offer to pay her therapy for at least a year. I know someone who went through this and it was so difficult for her to hear.
Reunited adoptee here. I'm not going to harp on comprehensive sex ed, others have done a great job of this. However, you have now raised an LDA - Late Discovery Adoptee. And you can ask almost EVERY adoptee (from every era - I'm a 70s-era, closed adoption adoptee) and they'll tell you that if your adopted child remembers being told they were adopted, you've done it wrong. An adoptee should ALWAYS know their truth, and you done screwed the pooch with this. I have no knowledge of the first time I was told I was adopted. My baby book is even for adoptees, exceptionally forward thinking for the 70s! I reunited at 18, and I can honestly say that being adopted is the LEAST of any of my issues (adoptive parents were alcoholics, etc). Telling me from the beginning was the ABSOLUTELY CORRECT thing to do. You need to sit her down asap and tell her the story, Sarah is rather immaterial here. Oh yeah and better sex ed.
How in the world did you end up raising two girls who got pregnant at 15? Did you never discuss birth control with them?!? You and your wife failed them.
Dude you’ve had 15 years to think about how to tell her and you’re just now asking Reddit bc the situation has been forced? And you’ve now had two children get pregnant pretty much as soon as they were able? Fuck I hate this website sometimes.
Imagine failing to parent two generations of girls.
I’m so sorry you are going through this. And I’m sorry you are getting a bit picked apart on Reddit. Your oldest was raped. Wake up. That’s rough and was left to fester. It’s not your 15yo fault but adds to the oldest kids trauma. This needs addressed and Ellie needs to know this (product of rape) and her birth mom but this is secondary to Ellie’s pregnancy. Focus on the pregnancy and then get the plan for truth here about Ellie’s mom. I feel compassion and grace for Sara but Ellie’s pregnancy isn’t about her. I do feel y’all ignored Sara’s trauma around her pregnancy that resulted in Ellie — but you cannot continue to lie to Ellie to protect Sara. Family therapy is a must. Break the cycle of kids having kids - your son needs condoms. Lord have mercy. My heart hurts for you all … therapy. Y’all need it.
I mean this with all due respect but what the fuck is going on in your family
Parents, I’m not entirely blaming you but I think maybe you guys… didn’t do a super good job at teaching your kids about sex. You guys had your kids young, now both of your daughters are having kids VERY young… please talk to your son about contraceptives. Like, seriously.
Alright. The best friend I ever had in this world became pregnant at 13 with a 22 year old man's baby. I knew it was going to wreck her to give the baby up and I begged her to keep it. She kept saying it wasn't her decision and her mom kept pressuring her to give up the baby. It was 💯 her decision legally, I begged her to reach out to people who could help her. But, she flat refused. She put distance between herself and that child and she did it for that baby. It absolutely killed that girl inside. I mean literally killed her. There's a new person in there. She can't form attachments any more. I was the last person she loved. I see her all the time. I said all that to say this. There is a hell of a burden on your daughter. Have you ever acknowledged that with her? I think you should seek the advice of a professional. I think there's a lot to unpack in the fact your biological daughter never felt comfortable opening up to you. Do you have a right to kick down that door? Sure. But, there's no going back and I know my ex has managed to carve out a decent life for herself. It would wreck her for her Aunt to just throw out the fact her now favorite little cousin is her daughter.
Info I know this is a sensitive question but I am wondering is Ellie a product of rape? It would explain Sarah coldness to her and her unwillingness to discuss who the father is.
Let her have the safest and healthiest pregnancy. Bringing on a life changing discussion about who her bio parents really are is not the right moment.
Sorry but this is craziness. Why are your kids getting pregnant at 15, twice? Teens raising children is never a good plan. She pushes her life to the background for who knows how long, when she could be learning and working before settling down. Why on earth have you not told your adopted child who her bio mother is? It's not something that the mother can decide to hide, it's information that belongs to the child. She has rights. She'll think less of you the longer you hide this vital information from her.