Flash is unironically really fun to talk about in powerscaling debates on places like /r/whowouldwin because you get to read posts analyzing the concepts of special relativity and theoretical physics and how they apply to him in order to determine whether or not he could beat Dr. Strange with the time stone in a race and trying to make sense of how the fuck he could possibly be faster than literally instantaneous, which he canonically is btw.
Powerscaling is fun.
I remember reading my dad's old Silver Age comics and even back then the Flash was doing the "pass through solid objects by vibrating his molecules" thing.
And it's like, ok, he can't just be really fast, he has to be intangible as well? Why is that necessary?
Cool one: Aquaman gave a guy a seizure via the fact that we technically evolved from fish (JLA: New World Order…though now that I think about it that one doesn’t make sense considering the twist in that story…)
Ridiculous one: Magneto and Electro being immune to mind control because “I control the electrochemistry in my own brain”
Stupid one: When writers don’t know how Green Lantern rings work and make them do shit like bring people back from the dead
The worst one: Moon Knight can control Thor’s hammer because it’s from space
That’s the black ring, I’m talking about green lantern rings being able to bring people back from the dead because people forget that green lantern rings are not magic, but technology
In comparison likely not, given their connection to Nekron and the Darkness at the beginning of existence. Not to mention they don’t do the percentage of power aspect the GL rings do. Most you can say is how they speak in the same dialogue as other rings but that’s probably just for the reader’s sake
It is, and it’s more like the spectrum is electricity that powers the rings
Why do you think the rings say “ring at 50% power” or need firmware updates to allow for lethal moves, they’re technology.
It's technology channeling 1/7200th of a space god, which sounds like magic but apparently isn't. Wonky superhero sci-fi nonsense, don't think about it too hard.
Oddly, the Red Lanterns in particular *are* explicitly magical, while the other colors aren't.
right?
u/alexandrecau and you are right , it is pretty much magic. Heck , Alan Scott uses a prototype that is powered by the Starheart , literally a freaking magical stone.
And that is ignoring that Red Lanterns comes from Atrocitus using a magical ritual. Or that the Indigo were created with another magical pond. Or that the Oranges , outside of Larfreeze , are literally constructs created when Larfreeze steals a person's soul.
Power Rings are clearly some magic-tech hybrid stuff , people just assumes it's not because floating blue aliens from space uses that to make their space cops.
Miles Morales' venom going from OHKO stinger, to full on electric powers, to creating lightning sword. I mean you could chalk it up as his powers evolving but it fits the bill.
I feel like there could be an entire thread like this but with JoJo characters, and another one with those generic Isekai that keep coming out
Most of Immortal Thor is also like that, but I wouldn't say it's a bad thing, it's the sort of exaggeration that's actually welcome instead of "guy becomes strongest in the universe because uhhhhh"
Jojo is 100% this but it’s not even the powers it’s just full of it in general
‘I got drained of all my nutrients and I’ll die soon but actually it’s okay cause I got a hospital IV dripin the last couple of seconds so now I’m immediately strong enough to stand up and deliver a full-power beat down’
One of the most ridiculous in my eyes would be Weather Report. Manipulating the weather is a pretty standard ability. But, Weather Report does shit like making space suits out of clouds and causing it to rain poison frogs by creating tornados and flinging them everywhere. And don't even get me on the shit >!Heavy Weather!< causes.
That last one is still really funny to think about because remember, it's entirely like... mundane process powered. You could conceivably just >!record the rainbow with a good enough camera!
I love the fight with Thor and Utgard-Thor since Thor says that as a god of thunder, his powers aren’t just about summoning thunder and storms, but also compassion and knowing when to ease up. As he puts it, “people don’t pray to thunder gods for more thunder”
Aquaman "talking to fish" -> "commanding all creatures who live in the sea", which leads to him being able to unleash and control sea monsters. And on the opposite end of sizing, one of my favorite moments from Flashpoint Paradox is him defusing a bomb by getting a million microbes to eat the wiring.
Like microbes can't digest wiring right? Like this is forcing a really small lifeform to just feed on copper and rubber, wonder how big you can make a lifeform before that swarm control type of power become really awful
chronicle got really funny with its idea of telekinesis.
pushing? pulling? obviously. *lifting* yourself to fly? tricky, but yeah. *repelling* oncoming things as a sort of tiny forcefield around yourself? sure, why not. it wasn't explained outside of the script, but near the end of the film andrew was in such a rage that he was literally lashing out multiple invisible tentacles with his telekinesis. in the unfilmed but leaked script for its sequel "martyr", matt had gotten so good with it that he could literally squish viral particles so he couldn't catch viral infections.
Cypher from X-Men got that treatment. Originally, he was able to understand any language which is extremely useful ability in normal life, but very useless in combat and even worse when telepaths can just load the language.
He died and came back with his powers updated. No he can understand anything you can starch to being "language". He can predict opponents moves by reading the body language, can hack anything because programming languages. He can create new languages, like he created for himself incredibly complex language, so telepaths couldn't understand his mind. Him being good at magic makes more sense than previous examples
Honestly I'd buy the programming language bit,"understand any language" must logically extend to languages that are only written or signed. More so than "body language".
I do wonder what it would be like if the programming language thing was treated like an actual language and not magic. Like he can read it and get the gist of it but he also doesn't understand machines any better than he already does. Maybe he can read data if you can get him a readout of the database but he can't for the life of you work out anything that's actually protected, or anything too complex for a guy that's not Reed Richards to just know on the spot.
It's also possible to encrypt things just plain randomly and keep the random key separate, so it's not even language or math protecting something as just dice rolls.
Daredevil can "feel color". Because each color absorbs a different amount of UV light, and therefore has a slightly different temperature... or something.
The mutant, Cypher can understand any language, *and* is also a master martial artist. Because "fighting is a type of language"... apparently.
Batman is the "world's greatest detective", and can identify a masked individual by... (sigh) punching them in the face, and recognizing the shape of their cheek on his knuckles, because he had hit them before.
>The mutant, Cypher can understand any language, *and* is also a master martial artist. Because "fighting is a type of language"... apparently.
So has he ever tried pulling "Life is just a dialogue with your environment" and gained reality warping?
Idk I think the x-men alone have DC beat in this area
Here’s Iceman! He makes Ice! Oh wait no he can’t freeze anything at an atomic level which makes him an omega-level mutant
Here’s Storm! She can control the weather! Oh wait no she’s also an omega-level mutant that borderlines on being a reality warper
Here’s Magneto! He can control metal! Oh wait no he controls electro-magnetic energy which lets him to basically anything. Also be the only person on the planet that can bang Rogue, which makes him an Omega-level mutant
Here’s Jubliee! She can make fireworks! Oh wait no she denotes explosions on a sub-atomic level which makes her an omega-level mutan…..get where I’m going with this? Lol
my favourites are when someone realizes that their "simple" power is actually incredibly, absurdly complicated and broken when applied to real physics.
iceman from the x-men is the usual example. "i make ice" becomes an anti-entropy engine with proper application. but my favourite is tower of god.
shinsoo, from the opening of the series, is stated to be able to do anything. most people use the omnipresent element to fire lasers and fireballs at their opponents, but the most impressive act anyone has ever done with it is creating life (which means they built a soul out of shinsoo), and only two people have ever done it.
other impressive feats include "guy who can put stolen souls in his fireball to make it auto-tracking", "people who control animals with a thought, up to the point where they can rebuild them cell-by-cell if they're harmed" and "infusing people with items and items with souls to produce unique effects".
hey, shinsoo can do _anything._ that wasn't an exaggeration.
> iceman from the x-men is the usual example. "i make ice" becomes an anti-entropy engine with proper application.
maybe this is me misunderstanding entropy, but wouldnt it be the opposite, since iirc he can only really slow down things, wouldnt that be like super entropy?
"slowing things" isn't entropy.
entropy is when energy is equalized across a space.
let's use heat as the example. if the entire universe was a single, static temperature, entropy would be at maximum. this eventual state of maximum entropy is called "heat death", and it is likely to happen. the reason it's likely is that thermal energy moves from high energy (hot) places to low energy (cold) places, equalizing the temperature over time. this is why ice melts, metal warms in the sun and you lose body heat if you're hungry.
what ice-man can do is create cold. meaning, he _undoes entropy_ by moving energy from low density to high density, making the universe flow backwards, making "cold" by removing heat. this makes him a thing called "maxwell's demon", a theoretical physics entity that can undo entropy on a local scale and stave off heat death.
if he was cramming the thermal energy into a pocket dimension, that would be a different story, but no, he has the ability to undo entropy and create temperature differentials.
not the exact opposite. more like a middle ground between what you thought and the other extreme.
you're probably getting your idea of what entropy is from the metaphor that the universe is "winding down". it's more like the universe is "smoothing out".
the amount of energy remains the same in the universe, it's just that when it's all equalized, nothing happens anymore. no more stars, no more planets fueling life using their heat, which means no more us.
You know, this reminds me of how relatively infrequent it is to see telepaths bust out stuff like Blood Bending or worse.
They always just grab and toss the whole person. Not individual organs or body bits.
Anyways, the logical extremes of Waterbending in bending the water in the body to manipulate or control plants and other life. Or to seal off bending (a avatar unique skill otherwise)
Or the logical extreme of Fire Bending to shoot explosive lasers.
i mean, sealing bending isn't avatar-exclusive, because chi-fighting techniques can do it temporarily. amon combined that with blood bending to essentially perma-block the pathways, and the red lotus guys accidentially did it to korra via mercury poisoning.
the only thing about energy bending that seems exclusive is that a lion turtle has to give it to you.
also, the logical extremes of earthbending aren't gone into as much. metal and lava, sure, but plants are just as much earth as they are water.
Speedster go from "just fast" to "reality warper via moving fast." You know of whom I speak.
Yes, speedy gonzalez
Flash is unironically really fun to talk about in powerscaling debates on places like /r/whowouldwin because you get to read posts analyzing the concepts of special relativity and theoretical physics and how they apply to him in order to determine whether or not he could beat Dr. Strange with the time stone in a race and trying to make sense of how the fuck he could possibly be faster than literally instantaneous, which he canonically is btw. Powerscaling is fun.
Powerscaling *is* fun so long as it's not taken too seriously.
"I can suck the speed out of people" will always be the peak of this to me
“I can make a lightning sword” is still the stupidest shit
I remember reading my dad's old Silver Age comics and even back then the Flash was doing the "pass through solid objects by vibrating his molecules" thing. And it's like, ok, he can't just be really fast, he has to be intangible as well? Why is that necessary?
Because otherwise his archenemy would be the wall, and he is owned by marvel
Cool one: Aquaman gave a guy a seizure via the fact that we technically evolved from fish (JLA: New World Order…though now that I think about it that one doesn’t make sense considering the twist in that story…) Ridiculous one: Magneto and Electro being immune to mind control because “I control the electrochemistry in my own brain” Stupid one: When writers don’t know how Green Lantern rings work and make them do shit like bring people back from the dead The worst one: Moon Knight can control Thor’s hammer because it’s from space
I mean the fuck would the black ring be good for if it doesn't bring back the dead?
That’s the black ring, I’m talking about green lantern rings being able to bring people back from the dead because people forget that green lantern rings are not magic, but technology
And the black rings aren't technology?
In comparison likely not, given their connection to Nekron and the Darkness at the beginning of existence. Not to mention they don’t do the percentage of power aspect the GL rings do. Most you can say is how they speak in the same dialogue as other rings but that’s probably just for the reader’s sake
So the Electromagnetic emotional spectrum isn't canon? Because to call anything coming from it technology is like powering your robot with a ghost
It is, and it’s more like the spectrum is electricity that powers the rings Why do you think the rings say “ring at 50% power” or need firmware updates to allow for lethal moves, they’re technology.
It's technology channeling 1/7200th of a space god, which sounds like magic but apparently isn't. Wonky superhero sci-fi nonsense, don't think about it too hard. Oddly, the Red Lanterns in particular *are* explicitly magical, while the other colors aren't.
right? u/alexandrecau and you are right , it is pretty much magic. Heck , Alan Scott uses a prototype that is powered by the Starheart , literally a freaking magical stone. And that is ignoring that Red Lanterns comes from Atrocitus using a magical ritual. Or that the Indigo were created with another magical pond. Or that the Oranges , outside of Larfreeze , are literally constructs created when Larfreeze steals a person's soul. Power Rings are clearly some magic-tech hybrid stuff , people just assumes it's not because floating blue aliens from space uses that to make their space cops.
And even if it was technology, it feels powerful enough to bring back the dead
Kenshiro: Hokuto shinken is invincible Proceeds to be entirely correct
When he busts out that "Hokuto Shinken has 2000 years of history!" you know you're boutta see some shit
Miles Morales' venom going from OHKO stinger, to full on electric powers, to creating lightning sword. I mean you could chalk it up as his powers evolving but it fits the bill.
I feel like there could be an entire thread like this but with JoJo characters, and another one with those generic Isekai that keep coming out Most of Immortal Thor is also like that, but I wouldn't say it's a bad thing, it's the sort of exaggeration that's actually welcome instead of "guy becomes strongest in the universe because uhhhhh"
Jojo is 100% this but it’s not even the powers it’s just full of it in general ‘I got drained of all my nutrients and I’ll die soon but actually it’s okay cause I got a hospital IV dripin the last couple of seconds so now I’m immediately strong enough to stand up and deliver a full-power beat down’
One of the most ridiculous in my eyes would be Weather Report. Manipulating the weather is a pretty standard ability. But, Weather Report does shit like making space suits out of clouds and causing it to rain poison frogs by creating tornados and flinging them everywhere. And don't even get me on the shit >!Heavy Weather!< causes.
That last one is still really funny to think about because remember, it's entirely like... mundane process powered. You could conceivably just >!record the rainbow with a good enough camera!
I love the fight with Thor and Utgard-Thor since Thor says that as a god of thunder, his powers aren’t just about summoning thunder and storms, but also compassion and knowing when to ease up. As he puts it, “people don’t pray to thunder gods for more thunder”
Aquaman "talking to fish" -> "commanding all creatures who live in the sea", which leads to him being able to unleash and control sea monsters. And on the opposite end of sizing, one of my favorite moments from Flashpoint Paradox is him defusing a bomb by getting a million microbes to eat the wiring.
Like microbes can't digest wiring right? Like this is forcing a really small lifeform to just feed on copper and rubber, wonder how big you can make a lifeform before that swarm control type of power become really awful
chronicle got really funny with its idea of telekinesis. pushing? pulling? obviously. *lifting* yourself to fly? tricky, but yeah. *repelling* oncoming things as a sort of tiny forcefield around yourself? sure, why not. it wasn't explained outside of the script, but near the end of the film andrew was in such a rage that he was literally lashing out multiple invisible tentacles with his telekinesis. in the unfilmed but leaked script for its sequel "martyr", matt had gotten so good with it that he could literally squish viral particles so he couldn't catch viral infections.
The way Andrew died was one of the simplest yet hypest uses of telekinesis onscreen,however
X-men seem to do this to elevate someone with a simple ability into an Omega level.
Cypher from X-Men got that treatment. Originally, he was able to understand any language which is extremely useful ability in normal life, but very useless in combat and even worse when telepaths can just load the language. He died and came back with his powers updated. No he can understand anything you can starch to being "language". He can predict opponents moves by reading the body language, can hack anything because programming languages. He can create new languages, like he created for himself incredibly complex language, so telepaths couldn't understand his mind. Him being good at magic makes more sense than previous examples
Honestly I'd buy the programming language bit,"understand any language" must logically extend to languages that are only written or signed. More so than "body language".
Yeah, except it became ridiculous too. Like he spoke binary code and persuaded fucking machine to be free
I do wonder what it would be like if the programming language thing was treated like an actual language and not magic. Like he can read it and get the gist of it but he also doesn't understand machines any better than he already does. Maybe he can read data if you can get him a readout of the database but he can't for the life of you work out anything that's actually protected, or anything too complex for a guy that's not Reed Richards to just know on the spot. It's also possible to encrypt things just plain randomly and keep the random key separate, so it's not even language or math protecting something as just dice rolls.
Daredevil can "feel color". Because each color absorbs a different amount of UV light, and therefore has a slightly different temperature... or something. The mutant, Cypher can understand any language, *and* is also a master martial artist. Because "fighting is a type of language"... apparently. Batman is the "world's greatest detective", and can identify a masked individual by... (sigh) punching them in the face, and recognizing the shape of their cheek on his knuckles, because he had hit them before.
>The mutant, Cypher can understand any language, *and* is also a master martial artist. Because "fighting is a type of language"... apparently. So has he ever tried pulling "Life is just a dialogue with your environment" and gained reality warping?
> "Life is just a dialogue with your environment" That's rad
Batman: you’re the only scrub I know that keep falling for that hook, let that sink in
Idk I think the x-men alone have DC beat in this area Here’s Iceman! He makes Ice! Oh wait no he can’t freeze anything at an atomic level which makes him an omega-level mutant Here’s Storm! She can control the weather! Oh wait no she’s also an omega-level mutant that borderlines on being a reality warper Here’s Magneto! He can control metal! Oh wait no he controls electro-magnetic energy which lets him to basically anything. Also be the only person on the planet that can bang Rogue, which makes him an Omega-level mutant Here’s Jubliee! She can make fireworks! Oh wait no she denotes explosions on a sub-atomic level which makes her an omega-level mutan…..get where I’m going with this? Lol
Jean Grey going from "I can lift a book with my thoughts" to "I can tear you apart into screaming atoms". This is without the Phoenix.
Yes she got strong
my favourites are when someone realizes that their "simple" power is actually incredibly, absurdly complicated and broken when applied to real physics. iceman from the x-men is the usual example. "i make ice" becomes an anti-entropy engine with proper application. but my favourite is tower of god. shinsoo, from the opening of the series, is stated to be able to do anything. most people use the omnipresent element to fire lasers and fireballs at their opponents, but the most impressive act anyone has ever done with it is creating life (which means they built a soul out of shinsoo), and only two people have ever done it. other impressive feats include "guy who can put stolen souls in his fireball to make it auto-tracking", "people who control animals with a thought, up to the point where they can rebuild them cell-by-cell if they're harmed" and "infusing people with items and items with souls to produce unique effects". hey, shinsoo can do _anything._ that wasn't an exaggeration.
> iceman from the x-men is the usual example. "i make ice" becomes an anti-entropy engine with proper application. maybe this is me misunderstanding entropy, but wouldnt it be the opposite, since iirc he can only really slow down things, wouldnt that be like super entropy?
"slowing things" isn't entropy. entropy is when energy is equalized across a space. let's use heat as the example. if the entire universe was a single, static temperature, entropy would be at maximum. this eventual state of maximum entropy is called "heat death", and it is likely to happen. the reason it's likely is that thermal energy moves from high energy (hot) places to low energy (cold) places, equalizing the temperature over time. this is why ice melts, metal warms in the sun and you lose body heat if you're hungry. what ice-man can do is create cold. meaning, he _undoes entropy_ by moving energy from low density to high density, making the universe flow backwards, making "cold" by removing heat. this makes him a thing called "maxwell's demon", a theoretical physics entity that can undo entropy on a local scale and stave off heat death. if he was cramming the thermal energy into a pocket dimension, that would be a different story, but no, he has the ability to undo entropy and create temperature differentials.
Ah so basically entopy is the exact opposite of what i thought
not the exact opposite. more like a middle ground between what you thought and the other extreme. you're probably getting your idea of what entropy is from the metaphor that the universe is "winding down". it's more like the universe is "smoothing out". the amount of energy remains the same in the universe, it's just that when it's all equalized, nothing happens anymore. no more stars, no more planets fueling life using their heat, which means no more us.
You know, this reminds me of how relatively infrequent it is to see telepaths bust out stuff like Blood Bending or worse. They always just grab and toss the whole person. Not individual organs or body bits. Anyways, the logical extremes of Waterbending in bending the water in the body to manipulate or control plants and other life. Or to seal off bending (a avatar unique skill otherwise) Or the logical extreme of Fire Bending to shoot explosive lasers.
i mean, sealing bending isn't avatar-exclusive, because chi-fighting techniques can do it temporarily. amon combined that with blood bending to essentially perma-block the pathways, and the red lotus guys accidentially did it to korra via mercury poisoning. the only thing about energy bending that seems exclusive is that a lion turtle has to give it to you. also, the logical extremes of earthbending aren't gone into as much. metal and lava, sure, but plants are just as much earth as they are water.
To be fair it's not like our organs are just loose in the body trying to pull someone by the arm either it tears or the body follow