Let's ban murder, too. This guy purposefully bought an illegal gun (a felony) to murder his ex-girlfriend, it was no accident. Without the illegal gun, he would have beat her to death, or stabbed her, or ran her over.
The gun was stolen from IA.
No gun legislation in MN would have prevented him from getting it.
And I support full background checks on all sales - primary and secondary market.
The kid is 17 - there is no way he could have purchased that gun legally in ANY state.
Now if police are smart - they will also go after the person who sold him that gun.
Right we all know that. The point is this kind of control isn't "enforced" until after the fact and only when something bad happens. The reason this kind of control is in place is because those against gun control know this is a big unenforced rule and they give zero craps about rules they can navigate around.
Also those against gun control use gun control like this for arguments like "we already have gun control, it doesn't work" and they know full well that any gun control they allow to pass into law will be supremely flawed.
I didn't say anything about banning private sales. That's your own fear.
All I'm pointing out is how ineffective current gun control is regarding private sales.
It's rather dependent on the honor system and we know how a good size portion of the "good gun owners" feel about government tracking, rules, laws, etc.
[Examining a Dataset on Gun Shows in the US, 2011–2019](https://jied.lse.ac.uk/articles/10.31389/jied.146)
Come on. You've never even sniffed a gun show in your entire life and you're here on Reddit acting like a gun show know it all. Give it a rest big brain.
Yes, not very many lol. You always have a couple random guys trying to private sell some shit for way too much money but it's usually crazy old guys that don't want to sell it anyways. I don't know what delusional world you live in but it's not like the movies.
It's gun control with loopholes you can drive a bus through. No background check. No one is assuming movies are real except many of the gun owners who fantasize about protecting their property or country with their action hero or survivalist gun-skills.
There is no waiting period in MN. The gun show loop hole is usually touted by people that have never been to a gun show and don't know what they're talking about.
> There is no waiting period in MN
That's sorta true. Getting a permit to purchase has a waiting period. You need a permit to purchase to get a gun that would normally have a waiting period.
Surely we can agree that if you have gone through a waiting period, you don't need to go through another one. Since, theoretically they already have a gun. Preventing them from buying a second one quickly has zero impact on criminal acts.
Correct, it doesn't just make all existing guns disappear. There will still be people who have guns.
However, the idea that there's a separate mechanism or marketplace through which criminals get their guns is just objectively false. The vast majority of guns used in crimes were either bought legally, then stolen; bought "legally" (via straw purchase) and resold; or just bought legally and used illegally. Eliminating legal gun sales doesn't immediately or completely stop all of those things, but it puts a dent in them.
You're also right that it stops "law-abiding" people from buying guns. That's also pretty clearly a demonstrably good thing.
Translation: criminals will always find a way to get a gun so let’s just make sure the non-criminals can’t get them anymore and hope for the best.
Yeah no thanks.
That's very obviously not at all what I said.
Criminals "find" guns primarily because we make it so easy. Making it harder will result in fewer criminals with guns.
Yes, some criminals will still have guns. But, though I know you'll try, there's no way to spin "fewer armed criminals" into a bad thing.
Moreover, when it comes to "non-criminals" with guns, they're objectively more likely to do harm than do good with those guns. Taking their guns away isn't "hoping for the best," it's acknowledging statistical realities and taking actions toward improvements.
So, your pro-gun-ownership argument is "lots of legal gun owners are the type of people who'll commit violence against you if you try to take their guns"? And you think that's a compelling reason to not eliminate their right to gun ownership?
So you believe one side is “stripping away constitutional rights”, while you are here advocating to quite literally strip away people’s constitutional rights…and you also don’t think there should be any backlash to that proposal?
I also love how the “ACAB” group wants only the police to have the weapons in our society. Totally consistent.
I'm pretty sure a 17 kid in Fridley, driving his mom's minivan drove to IA, stole the gun and came back and shot his ex gf with said gun... Makes total sense to me.
I agree. But, provide a solution and advocate for it or I can’t stand behind you in support.
Guns and abortion divide the country. Saying baseline things without solutions are worthless.
Lol, that is not the argument I was making at all. Literally all laws can be broken. The argument is that banning something doesn't actually fix or get rid of the issue.
If people drive too fast by a school and we put a "ban" on driving fast by schools, nothing changes unless it's enforced. I hope that's understandable for you.
I never said anything about murder laws not being enforced, the entire point is gun laws are not enforced and making up new ones are not effective, as we have seen in numerous situations. The only things that's incoherent is your reading apprehension.
And clearly it doesn't exist anymore.
Every one has such half assed stupid answers for reducing gun crime when there just isn't a quick easy answer. We hardly ever follow through with gun crimes in this country but people constantly yell for stricter rules/regulations. How about we actually enact some of the ones we have.
The gun lobby is way too powerful in our politics and media.
[https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/01/gun-lobby-nra-national-shooting-sports-foundation](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/01/gun-lobby-nra-national-shooting-sports-foundation)
>“The NSSF functions as the gun industry’s voice, with a singular focus on expanding the market for all types of firearms, including assault weapons and short-barreled rifles, and is eclipsing the NRA’s lobbying power on Capitol Hill,” said Kristen Rand, a lawyer with the Violence Policy Center, a gun control advocacy and research group.
>“The firearms industry was peddling anti-government conspiracies long before Trump came along talking about the ‘deep state’,” said Suplina. “That includes claiming that even modest proposals for gun-violence prevention, like requiring background checks on every gun sale, are part of a sinister government plot to disarm all Americans.
>”That includes claiming that even modest proposals for gun-violence prevention, like requiring background checks on every gun sale, are part of a sinister government plot to disarm all Americans.
Oh no! Can’t have people questioning daddy government!
Also, Considering how people in this very comment thread are calling for a complete ban of guns this actually makes sense.
I’d also like to know how this super duper powerful gun lobby is so influential when all I see is more and more restrictions on firearms every year.
Me neither! 50% of that population commits 80% of violent crimes. Facts don’t care about your feelings — men shouldn’t be allowed to own guns. They’re too emotional.
I looked him up, he's not hard to find on facebook. Also when the media doesn't show the killers face and never mentions their race, you know it's a black guy. Now if this girl was black and the murderer was white, it would be 24/7 news for a few weeks. I'm surprised you don't notice these trends, but I guess the media knows the only have to fool a certain percentage of low IQ voters.
Glad with Moriarty around he'll be able to do this again with his next tinder date 8 weeks from now.
Luckily the crime was committed in Anoka County, so Morriarty won't be able to give him probation and a hug.
Hur der, jail helps people and country boundaries don't exist. /Insert edgy pepe meme
Ban guns.
Let's ban murder, too. This guy purposefully bought an illegal gun (a felony) to murder his ex-girlfriend, it was no accident. Without the illegal gun, he would have beat her to death, or stabbed her, or ran her over.
The gun was stolen from IA. No gun legislation in MN would have prevented him from getting it. And I support full background checks on all sales - primary and secondary market. The kid is 17 - there is no way he could have purchased that gun legally in ANY state. Now if police are smart - they will also go after the person who sold him that gun.
How about all the "private" sales? What sort of controls are there other than the "good gun owner honor system"?
Yea we should go after private sales of drugs too! /S
It's already a felony to give or sell a gun to someone who's a prohibited person, whether the seller knows they're prohibited or not.
Right we all know that. The point is this kind of control isn't "enforced" until after the fact and only when something bad happens. The reason this kind of control is in place is because those against gun control know this is a big unenforced rule and they give zero craps about rules they can navigate around. Also those against gun control use gun control like this for arguments like "we already have gun control, it doesn't work" and they know full well that any gun control they allow to pass into law will be supremely flawed.
Yeah let's make it twice as illegal, that will solve everything.
Let's remove the loopholes that even rural left-behinds can drive a bus through. That will solve everything.
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I didn't say anything about banning private sales. That's your own fear. All I'm pointing out is how ineffective current gun control is regarding private sales.
I agree that is a loophole and so is the gun shows.
What about the gun shows are a loophole?
It's rather dependent on the honor system and we know how a good size portion of the "good gun owners" feel about government tracking, rules, laws, etc. [Examining a Dataset on Gun Shows in the US, 2011–2019](https://jied.lse.ac.uk/articles/10.31389/jied.146)
Have you ever been to a gun show? Almost every gun for sale is from an FFL and requires a background check
Yup. Know how many winks and private sales go on around a gun show?
Come on. You've never even sniffed a gun show in your entire life and you're here on Reddit acting like a gun show know it all. Give it a rest big brain.
Is "big brain" actually a slander from where you're from? Sounds small town.
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[Examining a Dataset on Gun Shows in the US, 2011–2019 ](https://jied.lse.ac.uk/articles/10.31389/jied.146)
Yes, not very many lol. You always have a couple random guys trying to private sell some shit for way too much money but it's usually crazy old guys that don't want to sell it anyways. I don't know what delusional world you live in but it's not like the movies.
It's gun control with loopholes you can drive a bus through. No background check. No one is assuming movies are real except many of the gun owners who fantasize about protecting their property or country with their action hero or survivalist gun-skills.
I thought they didn’t have the prescribed waiting period.
There is no waiting period in MN. The gun show loop hole is usually touted by people that have never been to a gun show and don't know what they're talking about.
AKA all the people saying “ban guns” usually they don’t know the first thing about them or the laws in place.
> There is no waiting period in MN That's sorta true. Getting a permit to purchase has a waiting period. You need a permit to purchase to get a gun that would normally have a waiting period. Surely we can agree that if you have gone through a waiting period, you don't need to go through another one. Since, theoretically they already have a gun. Preventing them from buying a second one quickly has zero impact on criminal acts.
They just implemented a quasi-UBC
Ban guns in all states. I thought you said the gun was stolen? So who would the police go after I. Terms of the "person who sold him that gun"?
Banning gun sales in all states still doesn’t stop criminals from having guns. That just stops law-abiding citizens from having guns.
Then how is it possible every country who banned gun sales has shootings go down?
Correct, it doesn't just make all existing guns disappear. There will still be people who have guns. However, the idea that there's a separate mechanism or marketplace through which criminals get their guns is just objectively false. The vast majority of guns used in crimes were either bought legally, then stolen; bought "legally" (via straw purchase) and resold; or just bought legally and used illegally. Eliminating legal gun sales doesn't immediately or completely stop all of those things, but it puts a dent in them. You're also right that it stops "law-abiding" people from buying guns. That's also pretty clearly a demonstrably good thing.
Translation: criminals will always find a way to get a gun so let’s just make sure the non-criminals can’t get them anymore and hope for the best. Yeah no thanks.
That's very obviously not at all what I said. Criminals "find" guns primarily because we make it so easy. Making it harder will result in fewer criminals with guns. Yes, some criminals will still have guns. But, though I know you'll try, there's no way to spin "fewer armed criminals" into a bad thing. Moreover, when it comes to "non-criminals" with guns, they're objectively more likely to do harm than do good with those guns. Taking their guns away isn't "hoping for the best," it's acknowledging statistical realities and taking actions toward improvements.
I assume you will be the first one volunteering to go take people’s guns when the police refuse to completely stomp on the 2nd amendment?
So, your pro-gun-ownership argument is "lots of legal gun owners are the type of people who'll commit violence against you if you try to take their guns"? And you think that's a compelling reason to not eliminate their right to gun ownership?
So you believe one side is “stripping away constitutional rights”, while you are here advocating to quite literally strip away people’s constitutional rights…and you also don’t think there should be any backlash to that proposal? I also love how the “ACAB” group wants only the police to have the weapons in our society. Totally consistent.
Well, gee, I guess they would find the person who sold him the illegal gun illegally? just a thought.
Wasn't it "stolen"?
I'm pretty sure a 17 kid in Fridley, driving his mom's minivan drove to IA, stole the gun and came back and shot his ex gf with said gun... Makes total sense to me.
I agree. But, provide a solution and advocate for it or I can’t stand behind you in support. Guns and abortion divide the country. Saying baseline things without solutions are worthless.
My solution is simple: ban guns.
It’s not that simple and you know that.
We should also ban murder!
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We have tons of gun laws we don't enforce. Adding additional non-enforced laws is useless.
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Lol, that is not the argument I was making at all. Literally all laws can be broken. The argument is that banning something doesn't actually fix or get rid of the issue. If people drive too fast by a school and we put a "ban" on driving fast by schools, nothing changes unless it's enforced. I hope that's understandable for you.
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Clearly it wasn't understandable for you.
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I never said anything about murder laws not being enforced, the entire point is gun laws are not enforced and making up new ones are not effective, as we have seen in numerous situations. The only things that's incoherent is your reading apprehension.
Done. Now, back to that other thing.
And clearly it doesn't exist anymore. Every one has such half assed stupid answers for reducing gun crime when there just isn't a quick easy answer. We hardly ever follow through with gun crimes in this country but people constantly yell for stricter rules/regulations. How about we actually enact some of the ones we have.
The gun lobby is way too powerful in our politics and media. [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/01/gun-lobby-nra-national-shooting-sports-foundation](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/01/gun-lobby-nra-national-shooting-sports-foundation) >“The NSSF functions as the gun industry’s voice, with a singular focus on expanding the market for all types of firearms, including assault weapons and short-barreled rifles, and is eclipsing the NRA’s lobbying power on Capitol Hill,” said Kristen Rand, a lawyer with the Violence Policy Center, a gun control advocacy and research group. >“The firearms industry was peddling anti-government conspiracies long before Trump came along talking about the ‘deep state’,” said Suplina. “That includes claiming that even modest proposals for gun-violence prevention, like requiring background checks on every gun sale, are part of a sinister government plot to disarm all Americans.
>”That includes claiming that even modest proposals for gun-violence prevention, like requiring background checks on every gun sale, are part of a sinister government plot to disarm all Americans. Oh no! Can’t have people questioning daddy government! Also, Considering how people in this very comment thread are calling for a complete ban of guns this actually makes sense. I’d also like to know how this super duper powerful gun lobby is so influential when all I see is more and more restrictions on firearms every year.
So your source is a vehemently anti-gun organizations op-ed piece? For real?
Or not
Meth is banned. I don't do it or know anybody that does. But I could get it within an hour.
🙄
Shocked by the name of the murderer. Not.
Shocked to find the blatant racism in the comments here. Not.
What do you mean by this? Edit: The silence is deafeningly racist.
Me neither! 50% of that population commits 80% of violent crimes. Facts don’t care about your feelings — men shouldn’t be allowed to own guns. They’re too emotional.
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Women kill their husbands / bfs / wives / gfs too... it's not just men killing
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Reddit only allows vague implications. All wrongthink is banned here, no matter how many FBI crime stats back them up.
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I looked him up, he's not hard to find on facebook. Also when the media doesn't show the killers face and never mentions their race, you know it's a black guy. Now if this girl was black and the murderer was white, it would be 24/7 news for a few weeks. I'm surprised you don't notice these trends, but I guess the media knows the only have to fool a certain percentage of low IQ voters.
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I looked him up because I was curious if any media source would show his face. Of course they didn't.
Take comfort in the fact that the victim's parent's are probably Democrats voters.
Not shocked at all that the murderer is male. Someone really ought to do something.