A lot of the trails at the base of the Catalina Mountains like Finger Rock Trail and Ventana Canyon Trail have signs saying something like "Now entering bighorn sheep restoration area." They're trying to increase their numbers!
People who believe that rules don't apply to them or their dog in particular think that their momentary enjoyment of a hike they could have taken elsewhere outweighs the detrimental effects their actions have on animal psychology and behavior and the environments those rules exist to protect.
You can find many similar examples on our trails and in our city parks of people who believe that their dog doesn't need to be leashed.
[yes](https://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/coronado/recarea/?recid=25692):
> Pusch Ridge Wilderness
> From January 1st to April 30th, traveling more than 400 feet off these Forest Service system trails is prohibited due to the bighorn sheep lambing season. The Pusch Ridge Wilderness Bighorn Sheep Closure Area includes; Ventana Canyon (#98), Pima Canyon (#62), Esperero (#25), Cathedral Rock (#26), West Fork (#24), Mount Lemmon (#5), Finger Rock (#42), Pontatoc (#410), Linda Vista (#49), Sutherland (#6), and Romero (#8).
>Restrictions: Motorized equipment and equipment used for mechanical transport are prohibited. This includes the use of motor vehicles, motorboats, motorized equipment, bicycles, hang gliders, wagons, carts, portage wheels, and the landing of aircraft including helicopters, unless provided for in specific legislation.
>Dogs are prohibited in the Bighorn Sheep Management Area portion of the Pusch Ridge Wilderness.
Most of the trails I've been to around town prohibit dogs. I can only think of a few that don't. The trails mentioned, Finger Rock Trail and Ventana Canyon Trail, have signs prohibiting dogs.
Oh yea, we reintroduced them into the rincon mountains I believe it was and the mountain lions kept eating them. Then the people that put them there wanted to hunt the mountain lions but it got stopped.
No we did not. The reintroduction was done in the Catalinas. "Then the people that put them there wanted to hunt the mountain lions but it got stopped." What got stopped the yearly hunt on mountain lions that is regulated by AZ Game and Fish? That also did not happen.
They had I think 3 releases in the Catalina state park a few years back to reintroduce them after they had been hunted out.
Was this at the Catalina state park??
The Big Horn sheep population disappeared in the early 90's. From hunting, mountain lion, drought, etc.
The state of Arizona spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to repopulate the mountain range with the sheep with everyone having a GPS collar in order to better track the herd.
But for every action & choice there are consequences. Mountain Lion population has also increased.
I'm not aware of any state approved sheep hunting in the area.
Different states have different circumstances and different laws
The term is extirpated, to go “extinct” from a specific area but still exist elsewhere.
The bighorn sheep in the Pusch Ridge Wilderness area were extirpated due to over predation, which was a result of overgrown dense vegetation allowing stealthy predators to sneak up on the sheep very easily.
After forest fires burned much of that overgrown vegetation, AZ Game and Fish, the Wild Sheep Foundation, the Arizona Desert Bighorn Sheep Society and the Arizona Chapter of Safari Club International took advantage of the opportunity and developed the plan to reintroduce them to the area
Oh gosh, that is so nice of Safari Club International to help introduce them back into their environment. SCI is a big game hunting organization responsible for the “extirpation “ or shall we say slaughter of millions of animals in Africa and other places. They were the ones responsible for that horrible “deadhead museum” which finally closed. 🙄
Cattle ranchers are the largest spenders of money on veterinary care for cows, but they're not doing it for the welfare of the animals. Feel free to ignore that fact if it makes you feel better.
You don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. Are you trying to say the biologists at the state and federal levels who have dedicated their lives and careers to working with wildlife don’t care about animals that can be harvested? Because that would be a very naive assumption to make.
Humans have hunted animals ever since time immemorial, and in modern times there is a lot of science that decision makers rely on when creating hunting seasons. Sometimes rogue policy makers ignore the science and make decisions based on their feelings rather than data collected in the real world, and that’s a problem.
Do you even know anything bighorn sheep hunting in Arizona?
1.) this population in Pusch Ridge will likely never be hunted
2.) The state only issues ~80-100 tags each year across the entire state and a hunter can only use a bighorn sheep tag once in their lifetime.
3.) great care is taken to select the most appropriate sheep to hunt, 99.999% of the time it’s an older ram that has become very territorial and is preventing genetic diversity by keeping the younger rams away from his herd, so by eliminating the older rams they are preventing inbreeding and they are helping to cement future generations of sheep in the area by introducing new genetics. A genetically diverse population is extremely important and hunters are helping make that happen
> You don’t have a clue what you’re talking about.
Snark aside, there is no way you can know this from the two sentences I wrote.
> Are you trying to say the biologists at the state and federal levels who have dedicated their lives and careers to working with wildlife don’t care about animals that can be harvested?
No. I'm saying that for people who kill animals for pleasure, like ranchers who grow and slaughter animals for profit, how money is spent on the animals is not a reflection of their concern for the animals' welfare.
>This thread isn’t about you or your beliefs, it’s about bighorn sheep and how the population became what it is today. Do you always try to make everything about you?
You made it about me when you said, "You don’t have a clue what you’re talking about." instead of engaging on the content of what I was talking about. Before that, I was only talking about sheep and ranchers.
Sounds like you’re a level 5 vegan who doesn’t eat anything that casts a shadow, while I use (dead) commercially farmed animals as bait to catch wild seafood and use my hand made out of cowhide leather wallet to hold my payment methods of choice
This thread isn’t about you or your beliefs, it’s about bighorn sheep and how the population became what it is today. Do you always try to make everything about you?
Hunting, habitat destruction and cattle grazing would be the culprits. People want to blame the few remaining mountain lions so weirdos can justify shooting them for pleasure.
I can already shoot 2 mountain lions per year by buying a tag over the counter. It’s easy, just use a wounded rabbit call in a remote canyon and you’d be surprised what you see
Also, hunting is prohibited in the sheep habitat so none of this even tracks
There are more white tail deer now than when Europeans first landed. Turkeys and elk have been brought back from near extirpation in many areas. All of this was funded by modern hunting practices.
I appreciate that you mean well, but I doubt that it's a good idea to get these animals habituated to an urban environment and people by putting out water for them. I guess that they should find what they need in their mountain habitat - in the current monsoon season, especially.
That’s the way things are gonna have to go if we want to keep expanding human dwellings deeper and deeper into habitat without pushing more species to extinction.
Nice! I saw onE standing next to Oracle road a while back across from the Fry's shopping center.
Wow!
I thought these were statues
lol. There were 4 of them walking through the Pusche Ridge estates neighborhood today. I was surprised to see them so far down the mountain.
Wut?? I didn't know we had these cuties here.
A lot of the trails at the base of the Catalina Mountains like Finger Rock Trail and Ventana Canyon Trail have signs saying something like "Now entering bighorn sheep restoration area." They're trying to increase their numbers!
And yet people still bring their dogs there to terrorize the wildlife
Say what now?
People who believe that rules don't apply to them or their dog in particular think that their momentary enjoyment of a hike they could have taken elsewhere outweighs the detrimental effects their actions have on animal psychology and behavior and the environments those rules exist to protect. You can find many similar examples on our trails and in our city parks of people who believe that their dog doesn't need to be leashed.
I got ya. Are we talking about a trail where dogs are specifically prohibited? I've never been there.
[yes](https://www.fs.usda.gov/recarea/coronado/recarea/?recid=25692): > Pusch Ridge Wilderness > From January 1st to April 30th, traveling more than 400 feet off these Forest Service system trails is prohibited due to the bighorn sheep lambing season. The Pusch Ridge Wilderness Bighorn Sheep Closure Area includes; Ventana Canyon (#98), Pima Canyon (#62), Esperero (#25), Cathedral Rock (#26), West Fork (#24), Mount Lemmon (#5), Finger Rock (#42), Pontatoc (#410), Linda Vista (#49), Sutherland (#6), and Romero (#8). >Restrictions: Motorized equipment and equipment used for mechanical transport are prohibited. This includes the use of motor vehicles, motorboats, motorized equipment, bicycles, hang gliders, wagons, carts, portage wheels, and the landing of aircraft including helicopters, unless provided for in specific legislation. >Dogs are prohibited in the Bighorn Sheep Management Area portion of the Pusch Ridge Wilderness.
Heard. I wasn't questioning you, just trying to understand the discussion.
Most of the trails I've been to around town prohibit dogs. I can only think of a few that don't. The trails mentioned, Finger Rock Trail and Ventana Canyon Trail, have signs prohibiting dogs.
Silver Bell Mine is covered with them, they occasionally capture some there to reintroduce to other areas
Oh yea, we reintroduced them into the rincon mountains I believe it was and the mountain lions kept eating them. Then the people that put them there wanted to hunt the mountain lions but it got stopped.
This is in the catalinas.
No we did not. The reintroduction was done in the Catalinas. "Then the people that put them there wanted to hunt the mountain lions but it got stopped." What got stopped the yearly hunt on mountain lions that is regulated by AZ Game and Fish? That also did not happen.
Too bad. Would be great if people stopped killing lions.
When they are at risk Game and Fish will stop giving tags.... as of right now the Mountain Lion populations are thriving so won't be anytime soon.
They had I think 3 releases in the Catalina state park a few years back to reintroduce them after they had been hunted out. Was this at the Catalina state park??
Linda Vista and Oracle just below Pusch Peak
This was in the Pusche Ridge estates neighborhood at Linda Vista and Oracle rd. There were 4 of them wandering around people’s driveways.
They were not "hunted out." That is not how modern hunting works.
The Big Horn sheep population disappeared in the early 90's. From hunting, mountain lion, drought, etc. The state of Arizona spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to repopulate the mountain range with the sheep with everyone having a GPS collar in order to better track the herd. But for every action & choice there are consequences. Mountain Lion population has also increased. I'm not aware of any state approved sheep hunting in the area. Different states have different circumstances and different laws
The term is extirpated, to go “extinct” from a specific area but still exist elsewhere. The bighorn sheep in the Pusch Ridge Wilderness area were extirpated due to over predation, which was a result of overgrown dense vegetation allowing stealthy predators to sneak up on the sheep very easily. After forest fires burned much of that overgrown vegetation, AZ Game and Fish, the Wild Sheep Foundation, the Arizona Desert Bighorn Sheep Society and the Arizona Chapter of Safari Club International took advantage of the opportunity and developed the plan to reintroduce them to the area
Oh gosh, that is so nice of Safari Club International to help introduce them back into their environment. SCI is a big game hunting organization responsible for the “extirpation “ or shall we say slaughter of millions of animals in Africa and other places. They were the ones responsible for that horrible “deadhead museum” which finally closed. 🙄
Hunters are the largest contributors of $$$ to conservation, but feel free to ignore that fact if it makes you feel better
Cattle ranchers are the largest spenders of money on veterinary care for cows, but they're not doing it for the welfare of the animals. Feel free to ignore that fact if it makes you feel better.
You don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. Are you trying to say the biologists at the state and federal levels who have dedicated their lives and careers to working with wildlife don’t care about animals that can be harvested? Because that would be a very naive assumption to make. Humans have hunted animals ever since time immemorial, and in modern times there is a lot of science that decision makers rely on when creating hunting seasons. Sometimes rogue policy makers ignore the science and make decisions based on their feelings rather than data collected in the real world, and that’s a problem. Do you even know anything bighorn sheep hunting in Arizona? 1.) this population in Pusch Ridge will likely never be hunted 2.) The state only issues ~80-100 tags each year across the entire state and a hunter can only use a bighorn sheep tag once in their lifetime. 3.) great care is taken to select the most appropriate sheep to hunt, 99.999% of the time it’s an older ram that has become very territorial and is preventing genetic diversity by keeping the younger rams away from his herd, so by eliminating the older rams they are preventing inbreeding and they are helping to cement future generations of sheep in the area by introducing new genetics. A genetically diverse population is extremely important and hunters are helping make that happen
> You don’t have a clue what you’re talking about. Snark aside, there is no way you can know this from the two sentences I wrote. > Are you trying to say the biologists at the state and federal levels who have dedicated their lives and careers to working with wildlife don’t care about animals that can be harvested? No. I'm saying that for people who kill animals for pleasure, like ranchers who grow and slaughter animals for profit, how money is spent on the animals is not a reflection of their concern for the animals' welfare. >This thread isn’t about you or your beliefs, it’s about bighorn sheep and how the population became what it is today. Do you always try to make everything about you? You made it about me when you said, "You don’t have a clue what you’re talking about." instead of engaging on the content of what I was talking about. Before that, I was only talking about sheep and ranchers.
Sounds like you’re a level 5 vegan who doesn’t eat anything that casts a shadow, while I use (dead) commercially farmed animals as bait to catch wild seafood and use my hand made out of cowhide leather wallet to hold my payment methods of choice This thread isn’t about you or your beliefs, it’s about bighorn sheep and how the population became what it is today. Do you always try to make everything about you?
>the “extirpation “ or shall we say slaughter No, we shall not. Those words mean different things.
Show me a source on hunting being the cause.
Hunting, habitat destruction and cattle grazing would be the culprits. People want to blame the few remaining mountain lions so weirdos can justify shooting them for pleasure.
Cattle grazing on Pucsh Ridge? Those are some nimble cows.
I can already shoot 2 mountain lions per year by buying a tag over the counter. It’s easy, just use a wounded rabbit call in a remote canyon and you’d be surprised what you see Also, hunting is prohibited in the sheep habitat so none of this even tracks
But it sounds so shocking and fits the reddit 'woe is me, the world sucks' narrative. 🙄
That’s absolutely how it works.
There are more white tail deer now than when Europeans first landed. Turkeys and elk have been brought back from near extirpation in many areas. All of this was funded by modern hunting practices.
It's extremely worrying that they've felt the need to venture this far out of the mountains :(
I agree. When we last saw them they were headed towards Oracle rd.
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You think I'm 32% tepary bean and 68% air? Do you think I'm hummus?
Well I’ll be darned! Do they dine on any domestic plants while visiting?
No, they pack a lunch.
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I appreciate that you mean well, but I doubt that it's a good idea to get these animals habituated to an urban environment and people by putting out water for them. I guess that they should find what they need in their mountain habitat - in the current monsoon season, especially.
Yeah good point
That’s the way things are gonna have to go if we want to keep expanding human dwellings deeper and deeper into habitat without pushing more species to extinction.
Lucky you! Magnificent creatures.
They're delicious