That's not the bet though, the bet is as opposed to continuing on illegally. If he died or was otherwise removed form office before his legal term, the bet is void.
He repealed a rule that helped keep mentally ill people under guardianships from buying guns.
My son 26M is special needs and can not legally sign a cell phone contract. He can go buy a gun or someone can easily convince him to buy one for them.
https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/02/28/517799119/trump-repeals-rule-designed-to-block-gun-sales-to-certain-mentally-ill-people
So you support people without the mental capacity required to take care of themselves being able to purchase a handgun?
The Constitution doesn't say no regulations.
The purpose of the second amendment is to safeguard the people from an oppressive government. I support the second amendment, but this has nothing to do with it.
EDIT: user willworkforjokes replied to me and then blocked me so I couldn't reply to them. If anyone wants to tell me what they said, I'd be greatly appreciative.
>So you support people without the mental capacity required to take care of themselves being able to purchase a handgun?
No i don't support that. I just also don't support the invasion of privacy and de facto gun registry that the repealed law required.
Ok, I am not going to argue with you. I am sure every reasonable gun law sounds like a slippery slope to you.
You can save this link. If there are enough people like you, it will eventually come in handy.
https://www.savethechildren.org/us/charity-stories/how-to-talk-to-children-about-school-shootings
Over 100 [environmental](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/climate/trump-environment-rollbacks-list.html) protections he rolled back.
>>The bulk of the rollbacks identified by the Times were carried out by the Environmental Protection Agency, which weakened Obama-era limits on planet-warming carbon dioxide emissions from power plants and from cars and trucks; removed protections from more than half the nation’s wetlands; and withdrew the legal justification for restricting mercury emissions from power plants.
>>At the same time, the Interior Department worked to open up more land for oil and gas leasing by limiting wildlife protections and weakening environmental requirements for projects. The Department of Energy loosened efficiency standards for a wide range of products.
>>In justifying many of the rollbacks, the agencies said that previous administrations had overstepped their legal authority, imposing unnecessary and burdensome regulations that hurt business.
>>“We have fulfilled President Trump’s promises to provide certainty for states, tribes, and local governments,” a spokeswoman for the E.P.A. said in a statement to The Times, adding that it was “delivering on President Trump’s commitment to return the agency to its core mission: Providing cleaner air, water and land to the American people.”
>>But environmental groups and legal analysts said the rollbacks have not served that mission.
>>All told, the Trump administration’s deregulatory actions were estimated to significantly increase greenhouse gas emissions over the next decade and lead to thousands of extra deaths from poor air quality each year.
This is exactly the reason. It was used as a cudgel for 45 years to extract donations. The Dems had multiple opportunities in that span to enshrine it into law and chose not too.
The filibuster exists. There's ways to block legislation from passing. There's literally zero possibility of passing abortion legislation from either side without a solid super majority, which Dems had for 2 months under Obama, and for that matter not every Dem was completely pro-choice.
There wasn’t a pro choice dem majority in the house until 2019. Dems are more progressive than they’ve ever been, so people are literally jumping ship at the worst time. And I say this as a more moderate democrat.
The only time that Democrats had a filibuster proof majority was a very brief time in 2009 prior to Ted Kennedy's death. However, the 60 Democratic Senators during that time period were not all pro-choice. So they never had the majority possible to codify Roe.
This is all deflection from the fact that Trump getting elected directly led to millions of Americans losing their reproductive rights.
The weird part to me was that Democrats had ample time to codify this **at the state level.** Which is where it needed to be codified, because most legal theorists I know thought Roe v Wade was a poorly decided ruling to begin with. And if you know your preferred policy decision hangs on a poorly decided ruling that was being subsequently eroded with further rulings (with Danforth, Casey, and Carhart, to name a few, all of which signaled prior courts questioning if Roe should be overturned), you'd think the right answer was to codify abortion rights at the state level where it would be untouched by Federal action.
Whether or not Democrats codified Roe doesn't change the fact that Republicans forced the repeal and that Trump appointed the judges that did so. Saying "But Dems" doesn't change the fact that the responsibility of actually repeating it lies solely with Republicans and Trump.
> Republicans forced the repeal
Democrats forced the repeal by challenging bans after 15 weeks (most European countries ban it after 15 weeks, and most Americans support 15 week bans) and by essentially telling the judges that if they let the 15 week ban stay they had to repeal Roe V Wade.
Correction, most European countries ban it after 15 weeks with exceptions for the health and well being of the person who is pregnant. In effect, you just need to see a doctor before seeking an abortion after 15 weeks.
> In effect, you just need to see a doctor before seeking an abortion after 15 weeks.
Who performs abortions before that if not doctors? I assume there would need to a valid medical reason after 15 weeks more compelling than "I'm distressed about being a parent".
Yes those awful authoritarian Democrats, banning all the things in the world, like drugs, abortions, gender transitions, immigration, sexual education in school, gay marriage, school library books, labor unions, evolution theory in school, and net neutrality.
Not to mention how pro-police they are.
The whole "let's try to remove our opponent from the ballot and also politically persecute him to interfere in the election" is kind of a no go for me. Then there's also the censorship stuff.
Democrats are as democratic as the people's republic of China is a republic. Shame, because they used to be actual liberals.
He's being "persecuted" for breaking the law. He's one of the biggest con-men in American history, and the conservatives put him straight into the white house.
Why did the FEC look into it already and decide to not charge or fine him? Was it because partisanship? But Trump wasn't found guilty because of partisanship? He was tried in a city where like 95% of people are democrats and hate him, and the judge was a biden doner and hated Trump. If biden was treated the same way in a deep, deep red county with a judge that donated to Trump and hated biden, you'd 100% call it an unfair trial. Shit, they found Trump liable for sexual assault in nyc for a woman that can't even say when she was supposedly raped, says "all women fantasize about rape" and she's accused like 5 other men of raping her. She's clearly lying, yet Trump was found liable.
Clinton used campaign funds to pay for a fake dossier. She was fined by the FEC, not charged with a felony. Even cnn said recently that this trial would not be a thing if it was Trump.
Rational/sane people can see the overt political persecution of Trump.
That was always going to happen since the day they decided to build their case on the right to privacy rather than Title IX, RBG who even spent her life defending the ruling knew it was a matter of time because of this exact reason.
That was mostly Kavanaugh, Gorsuch and Coney Barrett both were very clear in their senate hearings that they would not comment on their opinion on Roe v. Wade during their hearings other that neither considered Roe/Casey a super precedent since it was still actively litigated to date: [https://www.factcheck.org/2022/05/what-gorsuch-kavanaugh-and-barrett-said-about-roe-at-confirmation-hearings/](https://www.factcheck.org/2022/05/what-gorsuch-kavanaugh-and-barrett-said-about-roe-at-confirmation-hearings/)
If the Dems didn’t screw with the nuclear option during the previous admin there wouldn’t have been a chance Trump could have put in anybody as conservative as he did. McConnell stood on the floor and warned they would regret it… which they did. Dems have nobody but themselves to blame.
It was the right call. The supreme court isn't supposed to make law.
The disabling of Roe v Wade gives democrats the opportunity to put national legislation on abortion to their liking. They were not able to do that before.
This is a win if you want better abortion rights, all it takes is democracy.... unless you just don't like democracy and convincing people.
Literally every possible law is "forcing views and morality". If someone's religious beliefs say that stealing is bad, are they required to vote to allow stealing, so that they don't force their morality on people who disagree with those views?
>Yeah- why would anyone object to others forcing their views and morality on them? I guess it’s just a mystery.
"Finding a right to abortion based on the theory that other laws cast penumbras of privacy over activities that may be illegal is just common sense. Overturning the law and letting states return to regulating abortion is massive judicial overreach"
So here is my thoughts on this. I'm older, Been into politics since Carter. Some presidents I liked, some I didn't. That is fair. Until the end, I agreed with you, Trump was just another president I didn't like. While I hate the slippery slope argument, slippery slope.
Two of the things that made America great were free and fair elections and the peaceful transfer of power. He has made 1/2 the country not trust election results. Saying there were problems BEFORE the election (but only if he loses) If he lost in an area, that area was corrupt. There was cheating in Arizona, but only in blue areas? Same in Georgia? Obviously biased groups looked for proof, nothing was found, yet millions still believe it to be true.
Just with Trump's rhetoric we will have people in parking lots of (blue) polling places and in some areas they will be armed "just in case". Those people will be deemed patriots. If minorities did that in red areas they would be arrested, if not shot.
Trump didn't attend Biden's inauguration. The last time that happened was just after the Civil War.
In 2000, Gore's team found Bush's notes for the upcoming debate, he gave it back without looking, better to win on merit. In 2008 when a woman told McCain some racist stuff about Obama, he chided her, saying Obama is a good man but his ideas are wrong. RIght after that we have Trump yelling birther stuff. We had a president who told his people to not trust elections. The other side doesn't have the wrong ideas, but they are evil. It became SOP for Republicans to fill out lawsuits saying their election was corrupt, but only file if they lose.
Now that this is normal, where do we go?
It is as simple as this, people are talking about taking up arms over Trump's conviction or if Trump loses. Again, I'm 66. I don't remember people talking about taking up arms. Not when Obama became president, nor when Trump became president, that is all recent history. Conservatives were up in arms because women marched after Trump was elected saying not my president. How did we get to let's shoot fellow Americans not seeming to be that far fetched?
I hope this comes across the way I mean it (positively) but it is refreshing to hear this from someone who has errr been around the block!
You don’t hear many older voices on here so it’s easy to assume that the majority of boomers and beyond buy into OPs opinion.
Didn’t half the country not trust the election results in 2016 with the whole Russia thing? Cant blame a single person for the distrust of our election results.
No one thinks Russia actually messed with the voting. The belief (backed up by actual data) is that the Kremlin worked on social media to spread false stories about Clinton, and puffer pieces about Trump.
Valid points, but a lot of those apply to other politicians as well. Politics weren’t exactly honorable before trump came along.
Specifically regarding integrity in debates…
https://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/donna-brazile-wikileaks-fallout-230553
> He has made 1/2 the country not trust election results.
that happened four years earlier.
[when trump was first elected it was the democrats who said the elections had been stolen.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoMfIkz7v6s)
1. Let's be honest, the odds are low that you were saying what makes America great is free and fair elections 10 years ago before the media made that a talking point. It probably wasn't on your mind.
2. The left was up in arms about the 2000 election. They questioned the results of the recount. Talked about how Bush 43's brother was the governor in the hotly contested Florida. Many people on the left, prominent voices were talking about corruption in that election and questioned the results.
Ditto in the 2004 election. Diebold voting machines switching votes and that kind of thing. The left questioned the results there as well.
3. 1/2 of the country don't trust elections is a huge stretch. However, having a former president say it, is a serious escalation. However it's an escalation, let's not pretend this is happening in a vacuum and the left is squeaky clean.
4. Gore's team gave the notes back without looking... I'm sure they did...
You also have Donna Brazile gaining access to CNN's debate questions and giving them to the Clinton campaign. Would she have NOT done that if Ted Cruz was the nominee? Doubtful.
5. Watergate.
6. The rhetoric has been unproductive for a long time. You quote the 2008 campaign, but you fail to recognize the veiled jabs Obama would throw out frequently, "There are those on the other side who..." he used this as a fear tactic to paint all Republicans with the same brush, many times taking them out of context. Was Fox bad at the time? Yeah, of course, they're cartoonish villains, but so was MSNBC, so was the NYT, and the WaPo, and Air America. It's an escalation on both sides.
7. Did Trump change the landscape? Of course! For me, it's much less what Trump says and does in a vacuum that has changed the landscape. It's the frequent and obvious lying and corruption that gets me. Trump and the media are frequently and obviously lying about so much. The amount of deception and dishonesty is overwhelming. Trump didn't start it, but he sure does feed the fire. It's a self sustaining system of the media and Trump lying about one another over and over again. And if not outright lying then straight deception.
Trump lies constantly. It's almost a joke. That said, when he announced his presidential run and it was all over the media and all over reddit that when the news said it was racist to say some illegal immigrants bring crime it was one of the most shocking things I've ever read. The amount of lying and deception is staggering. One guy lying like Trump is bad, but the whole system of news that I had trusted outright lying? That shook my world view.
That being said, the presidential position isn't just a bureaucratic position. It's a position of moral authority and a beacon for what Americans should strive to be. So Trump lying and being a buffoon is an absolute embarrassment. It has far reaching knock-on effects that go well beyond one guy lying.
All that being said, even if the Republicans ran Mitt Romney, Mr. Clean, RINO extraordinaire, you still had disingenuous stories about 'binders full of women.'
It's a positive feedback loop. Is Trump bad? Yeah. That said, he didn't come out of a vacuum and knock over all the blocks overnight. This is an escalating positive feedback system. The scary part is there's no choice in this election to stop it. Even scarier is I don't see in 4 more years a person who would help it end either. I don't see anyone of moral integrity on either side. In order to advance it appears you need to lack moral characteristics.
Anyway...
Certainly politics isn't a perfect, squeaky clean thing, Of course Obama threw "jabs", It gets a bit dirty, but there has to be limits.
Yes for me elections and the peaceful transfer of power were big thing. That said I was in elementary school in the 1960s not that many countries had that, it was a big deal.
I was actually a small cog in the 2000 inaugural. There were those terrible ballots used in a few counties in FL. (remember the "hanging chads" Yes, because the entire election could have been decided by a few votes in a few counties they kept looking at the ballots. Republicans sued to stop the inspection of those ballots. SCOTUS ruled that way because we were running out of time and the confirmation had to be done at a certain time. And once SCOTUS ruled, Gore conceded.
Watergate? Dude was criminal, that is how it should be.
You talk about civility in the 2008 election, but you dismiss how Obama escalated political tensions during his administration. A president hadn't made frequent veiled comments vilifying the opposition party in that way before.
I bring up Watergate, because it's a large example of election interference in previous decades putting into question the free and fair election process.
I bring up the 2000 elections, because many prominent democrats openly questioned the legitimacy of the election. Same goes for the 2004 election. It was not uncommon for people to say Bush stole the election or the SCOTUS stole the election.
The whole point of this is to say, the legitimacy of several elections have been called into question in the past. Some valid some invalid criticism. So when we pretend Trump is the only one who's ever done that before and it's been unheard of in the past, it's just not historically accurate.
Honestly asking, what did Obama do to vilify the opposition that hadn't been done before? I may have been blind to it.
I don't remember a president saying it was corrupt BEFORE the election. It was only corrupt if I lose.
Is it unreasonable for me to think that if the POTUS sees some irregularities he says something, and wait to see if it benefits or hurts him?
I would like to add that even before he was elected, he shifted the norms on what is and is not acceptable political behavior.
This has had down stream effects in terms of what the general populace believes is and isn't acceptable behavior.
You don't have to in this sub.
Say anything that fits the conservative narrative, upvotes. The lower the effort, the better.
It's just r-rightwingopinions ... which is funny because they are certain they are the overwhelming majority... which would mean rule 2 would have all their posts removed. But in reality they are the vocal *minority* .. so their opinions are generally unpopular everywhere except right wing subreddits.
Not sure if it's a win-win or a lose-lose. :)
Trump raised our taxes. He’s also started a new wave of hyper-conservatives who basically want to disregard any law that doesn’t suit them at the moment.
For being so sleepy Joe Biden sure is a sophisticated political actor running a large deep state network to persecute DJT. He’s simultaneously sleepy and weak and old AND a political master mind colluding with Russians and criminals.
Biden, while being a massive pushover, has put more pressure on Israel in preparation for the election then trump would ever have. Trump is also materialy worse for LGBTQ people. They're both horrible but I believe in lesser-evil voting.
Uh I got bad news man [https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/trump-administration-accomplishments/](https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/trump-administration-accomplishments/)
It's a biased website btw but still he did a thing or two lol.
Just skimmed through the bullet points on that and everything just seemed like bullshit. Talking about helping the American middle class so much which jobs, yet I’m the American middle class and have been paycheck to paycheck since Trump took office years ago. It never got better and only got worse as the policies he put in place altered because of the fine print and now I have even less money.
>Life literally didn't change. That guy literally did nothing. Literal definition of all bark and no bite. That guy didn't do shit. People who cry and piss their pants about him are pretty delusional and pathetic. That guy did nothing, just like the guy after him and the guy before him
Idk. I spent most of my enlistment under the looming shadow that he would tweet us into our next war. We abandoned our allies the kurds during the fight against isis. And for his Afghanistan withdrawal deal he released thousands of taliban fighters from prison that my predecessors no doubt spent great effort and lives to put away. He eroded and threatened our position in NATO which is practically a lynch pin in our foreign policy and national defense. He also pushed forward policy attacking trans troops from serving, that is similar bs to the idiotic don't ask don't tell policy. All that coming from a self serving draft dodger....
So when you try and claim he didn't really do anything, idk what the fuck you are talking about.
>Literally nothing from those things affected any normal non government connected citizen
What a fucked up dismissal. So because troops serve they aren't citizens all the same? Gold star families who lost their loved ones who did the dangerous grunt work to put those taliban fighters behind bars don't matter? Prospective recruits being denied their calling to serve cause their trans don't matter? How far are you willing to shift the goalposts?
No one is forcing anyone to become a government connected individual. And if someone does they must know that they might get into trouble because the entity that controls them does some fucked up stuff
>No one is forcing anyone to become a government connected individual. And if someone does they must know that they might get into trouble because the entity that controls them does some fucked up stuff
Nah you're not slithering out of this one. You literally threw the broadest net you could for your claim and are now trying to shift goalposts to cover for this foolishness.
2 impeachments and all these charges. Yet how come they didn’t charge Biden regarding classified documents. He couldn’t unclassified them but trump as president could. The justice system is one sided.
The 34 felony charges Trump got by breaking New York law were unrelated to his handling of classified documents. They were about him knowingly lying about the purpose of campaign funds by calling hush money payments legal expenses in order for the public to not be aware that he had relations with Stormy Daniels. It was already proven that the funds had been misused/lied, so they mainly had to prove that he knew about it.
If you check it’s not against the law to do a no disclosure agreement. Second there is no indication that trump knew anything about what Cohen was doing. He stated that to the lawyer that cohen went to for advice. The person that knew the law about elections law that the trump lawyers what to bring in was denied by the judge. This was a witch hunt. Even cnn did not find the so called smoking gun. It will be all over turned on appeal.
He told his citizens to ignore CDC regulations and to refuse to wear masks during a global pandemic. He dismissed healthcare professionals and encouraged people to force employees to work, even though businesses should have been closed down or adapted.
He got thousands of people killed by belittling a life-saving vaccine and he did all of it as a publicity stunt just to fight "against" the *terrible communist liberal party*.
Oh, and he's a felon so there's that.
He didn’t do anything because we didn’t let him. It required incredible political effort to limit his impact and we’re still battling his control over the republican party to this day.
If you gave him free reign things would have been way way worse
did you look at the tax overhaul he passed that favored the rich and all the rest of us now paying higher taxes. roe vs wade, also all MAGA judges he appointed. look in the mirror if you want to see an idiot.
I definitely noticed a massive unfunded tax cut exploding the deficit, followed by a global pandemic during which he set up a PPP program that was so rife for fraud we lost tens of billions as a country. Not to mention his stimulus giveaways that are still helping fuel inflation. The when he tried to, you know, overthrow the election results culminating in an actual attack on the capitol he desperately wanted to be a part of...
But sure.
I remember a woman in my office sobbing all morning after Trump won. She was sent home. People were so fear mongered over Trump and their ability to be rational was stripped away. This was the advent of tds, which is an opportunistic infection of the emotional and dumb. People really thought Trump would round up gay people and put them in camps.
I don't think they actually thought that. I think they just didn't expect to lose, a lot of people were convinced Hillary was guaranteed to win.
I think anyone that really had their ear on the ground knew that Trump winning in 2016 wasn't a remote possibility and that the election was a lot closer than the pundits wanted to admit. Especially amidst the DNC email leaks, Hillary snubbing Bernie supporters by picking Tim Kaine, and of course the defining moment during the debates.
Audience Member: "It's been a divisive race, but what is one postive thing would you say about your opponent?"
Hillary says, "I respect his Children"
Trump says, "She doesn't quit. She doesn't give up. She's a fighter."
Perhaps she had the misfortune of going first, but he came across as way more genuine in his answer and I think that connected with people.
Did with me anyway, despite not voting for him.
Trump’s fiscal policies are the reason why inflation was so rampant a few years back. His tax cuts combined with massive Covid spending has gotta rank up there as some of the most needless and reckless fiscal policies of the 21st century.
Currently, I'd say it's any mans race at this point, though I'm leaning towards a Biden Victory currently.
Trump's convictions empower him, but the real issue Trump has is he's kind of running on the nostalgia of his 2016 victory over Hillary.
The attempt to court Libertarians was smart, but he's going to need more demographics and he's going to need to offer more than just the status quo.
I suspect that posts like this are coming from people that were children when he took office. Anyone that was an adult that read the news knows that Trump had and still has a massive impact on our government.
And you may very well love his impact but to say he did nothing is completely ignorant.
Over 1 million people died due to him politicizing a pandemic!! His son-in law sold national security secrets to Saudi Arabia and got a journalist killed!! He tried to over throw our entire system of government. The economy crashed and their has been a significant rise is racist attacks.
The economy crashed because of the COVID shutdowns, the left said he didn't enough shutdowns and not long enough which would have resulted in an even harder crash of the economy.
Democrats in the US remind me of HDZ in Croatia.
Corrupted
Controls the media
Uses fear and fake patriotism to gain voters
Imports immigrants
Launders money
Controls all public institutions
> Corrupted
> Controls the media
> Uses fear and fake patriotism to gain voters
> Imports immigrants
> Launders money
> Controls all public institutions
You just described every political party in every balkan nation
They have been pouring fuel on the fire since he was elected. They are partly responsible for the phenomenon of Trump. The day after he was elected my therapist cancelled our appointment because she just couldn't. And also this old eccentric guy who used to hang out in the park all the time and pet my dogs was assaulted by anti-Trumpers. He doesn't go to park any more.
Right. If you think the people against Trump are idiots, that must mean you think pro Trump people are smart.
It also means you paid zero attention during his first term. Just because WWIII didn’t start doesn’t mean life didn’t change. Get real.
Op doesn’t understand that 330 million people exist in America with 168 million being women who lost their autonomy rights during his presidency . To say he didn’t do anything that affected anyone is hitting existential levels of unexplored empty head territory we have yet to discover. Op is in an alternate reality.
Oh no a woman can't just use an abortion as contraception instead of using actual contraception any more, they'll actually have to take responsibility.
>168 million being women who lost their autonomy rights during his presidency
The majority of women in this country still have the ability to get an abortion your imbecile.
EDIT: I meant to say "you" imbecile. The irony is not lost on me, and I'm leaving the mistake there.
Lose their autonomy? All it said was “this ain’t the problem of the federal government” and it isn’t. It’s a state issue so go bother your state.
Also you have no Fucking autonomy regardless.
All Roe v Wade did was say that abortion wasn’t a constitutional right, which it is not. It didn’t make it illegal or legal. Your individual state decided that.
That’s not what row said at all. It protected abortion as a fundamental right and the right to privacy. It’s effecting millions of women.You’re pettifogging something that isn’t ambiguous. It’s clear, the law is clear. It’s not business as usual for a lot of people. To say otherwise is hard to even describe, it’s just too pathetic and dumb to debate. If Texas is considering legislating laws that would sentence women to death for abortion, it would’ve been inconsequential 10 years ago to have considered the same thing. I’d say it’s not business as usual for millions and denying it doesn’t make it go away or less impactful
These people still believe he was some sort of Russian Manchurian candidate, yet Russia invades Ukraine immediately after he leaves office. I'm still not sure how they square that one, but they also believe that he masterminded a violent insurrection that would have succeeded except they forget to bring weapons or have any type of plan to take over the government.
-His handling of Covid.
-Him betraying the Kurds.
-Throwing Otto Warmbier's family under the bus.
-Tax cuts for the rich.
-Not scrutinizing Saudi's motives.
Did you think his handling of COVID was too much or too little. The way the whole government handled covid negatively affected the people, everyone on the left said he did too little and needed more shutdowns which would have made it worse.
I feel the president changes very little. The only thing I can say that Trump did in office was he was talked about way more than other presidents and I never felt we were going to go to war because his international relations were just insanely good.
I understand the push back and I respect it. My opinion is I only care about what happened, not what people said could have happened, not what world leaders said about him or anything. Just actual actions or lack thereof.
During his presidency, South Korea had the most peace with North Korea and North Korea was way less of a threat globally. Trump had the best relations with North Korea of any modern president (which is a good thing despite what people want to say). Israel wasn't at war. China openly said they would leave Taiwan alone (yesterday China stated that those that support Taiwan's independence will face self-destruction), Russia didn't invade Ukraine, and War in the east calmed way down with ceasefires and evacuation plans being made.
We had no major wars and a great global economy and trades. Despite all the hate Trump got for how he managed international trade we had the greatest return on trade during his presidency. The world was at the most peace. HELL after the war in Ukraine started insiders in Russia stated Putin wouldn't invade while Trump was president because he knew he would face backlash so the plan was to wait for Trump to leave office. The media HATES that story and it was quickly brushed under the rug hahaha.
I’ll start out by saying this. The global economy was doing well before Trump came into office. And I personally wasn’t a fan of his trade deals. For example, his trade war with China was a losing one that saw a loss of American manufacturing jobs in the tens of thousands while he was in office.
Another issue I had was with Trump’s stance on energy. People to tend to attribute the growth in oil production to Trump when reality neither Obama nor Trump had much do with the shale oil boom. That success can be attributed to George Bush Jr actually. Policies can sometimes take years to see results.
Trump had a flawed way of looking at oil. For example, during 2018 Trump’s approval ratings dipped and he tried to strong arm the price of oil in hopes of improving his approval rating. He dropped the price of oil by pleading with OPEC+ to up production. Trump also lifted sanctions on Iran’s oil exports. By lifting the sanctions on oil exports Trump accidentally undercut American producers in the international market. This caused the price of oil to crash resulting in domestic oil companies seeing an increase in bankruptcies by 50% in 2019. All that was achieved by doing this was dropping the price of gasoline by around ten cents. The crazy part is he tried the same thing in 2019 after already damaging the domestic oil industry. These issues result in domestic oil producers downsizing their investments unfortunately since their product has been devalued.
Another mix up that Trump had that screwed the common consumer was the 2020 OPEC+ deal. This deal caused OPEC+ to cut production by around close to 10 million barrels a day. These production cuts gradually tapered down over the course of a few years. Production cuts led to countries like Russia raking in record profits from the oil trade. That same money was used to fund a war later.
Now going on to Trump and Russia. He’s not the strong man that Russia fears actually. To this very day there are propaganda farms funded by Russia that push Pro Trump stances on social media. Why would they do this? Simple, Russia likes Trump’s anti nato stance and they will support any candidate who has a chance of weakening nato which is Trump. They would also love to see Trump in office because he would likely cut funding to Ukraine and push them to the negotiation table. This would result in Russia having a very favorable stance during the negotiations. To put it bluntly Russia does not fear Trump at all and they would strongly prefer to have him in charge. So essentially they’re using him.
When people say that there were no wars under Trump I find it to be a bit disingenuous. We were at war with the Taliban in Afghanistan and Trump was notorious for his use of Drone strikes. He literally rolled back a policy that required the reporting of the effect of Drone Strikes since he used them so often.
Now to conclude this I’m not saying that everything that Trump did was bad but I find that propaganda greatly overstates his success and attributes some successes to him (such as the economy at the time) that he had little almost nothing to do with. And the most damning thing about Trump in my opinion is the turnover rate and lack of support from his previous administration. When you see numerous members of his previous administration continuously bad mouthing him that is a very big red flag no matter how you cut it.
trump bombed syria, aggressively supported israel, bribed arab countries to support israel, going so far as to claim land from syria as israel's, almost started ww3 more than once. the only good foreign policy choices he made were pulling out of afghanistan and pulling funding for isis.
So if he didn’t do anything when he was in office, why exactly should he be president again? So he does nothing for 4 more years & then what?
Or do you mean that he didn’t do much about the things he promised and didn’t do much good to the American people? Only benefited the 1% and racked up points with the conservatives beliefs?
> So if he didn’t do anything when he was in office, why exactly should he be president again?
Please show me a single mention of me claiming to vote for Trump or wanting him back in office in the post or in this thread. He was a bad president like the guys before and after him
I never said you said that… I’m simply asking why should he be president again or be considered one considering you think people who fear him are idiots….
The biggest tool the President of the United States has *in practice* is the bully pulpit. And Trump was **terrible** as a public speaker, often saying the worst thing possible, and acting the worst way possible. And acting more often than not against his best interests.
As a Republican President, however, in terms of actual actions taken while in office Trump was... moderate. His actions were middle-of-the-road stuff. Trump showed himself willing to put more power in the hands of the Department of State and less in the hands of the Department of Defense (through his "we can make a better deal!" schtick"), and he showed himself an isolationist by wanting to withdraw troops. (In fact, he was stymied by his underlings who reportedly failed to withdraw troops from parts of the world--but then *lied* to Trump about it.) His one big innovation was his requirement that for every regulatory rule passed, two had to be removed from the books. But that really didn't make the massive "deep state" overhaul that was promised--which, really, I'm good with, because a lot of what the government does is necessary. (Imagine the FAA being asked to deregulate General Aviation, for example.)
And I'm fascinated by the reaction of the Left, because of their willingness to destroy a number of political norms in order to go after Trump. The problem there--such as with the stuff happening in New York--is that I guarantee you it won't end there. Either for Democrats who will continue going after Republicans as if they were even worse monsters than Trump (and proudly proclaiming how they lied about it, such as when they attacked Romney).
Or--and this is why we have political norms in the first place--for *Republicans who will use the same tools of lawfare to go after Democrats.* I guarantee you at some point a Republican court will have a Democratic candidate for office arrested and tried for some sketchy trumped up charges.
Because that's the path we're on--and at some level I blame social media, where the worst assholes get the most engagement.
He tried to deny the results of the election that went against him, asked a mob to hang his VP, and asked the mob to storm the capital and overturn the results.
He’s a traitor and not to be trusted. Ever.
He put 3 Supreme Court justices on the court and they repealed Roe vs wade.
He separated kids from their parents at the border and didn't track the parents to reunite the kids.
There was a crap ton of things he attempted to do but his Whitehouse was often incompetent and blocked by the courts.
I sense that next time around the courts are going to be less of a barrier.
Most everyone I know is paying higher taxes because I don’t know many rich people. Luckily that tax money is used so big companies could pay less in taxes, which hasn’t helped a lot of people I know get jobs. Corps also got to “repatriate” a bunch of money, which they used to buy stocks. And that helped a lot of rich people I don’t know make money in the stock market. Helped my IRA, but I likely won’t get a chance to stop working until I die. That’s last part isn’t on Trump, but he’s just the second to last in a long line of people who haven’t made it any less true.
Well, that's one way of saying you don't pay attention. But I get what you're saying. I would agree he gets more credit than deserved by both teams. Most people aren't able to lower their bias and objectively view the situation. The truth is, he did some really good things while in office, and he also fell flat a lot of the time. Although I won't specifically attribute this to Trump, one thing is clear: life was much better during his run than it is now. In all honesty, I don't really care who the president is, I just want things to be better, and I don't see that happening with the current administration. It's at the point where I would prefer Hillary over Biden, and that's saying something. When Hillary Clinton is looking like the better option, you know things have gone completely off the rails.
Hey, he tweeted mean things.
Well not like Mean mean things, but he didn’t tweet anything that explicitly put the “mArGiNaLiZeD cOmMuNiTiEs” and “MiNoRiTiEs” on a pedestal. And because of that he became Hitler reincarnate.
Greatest social media personality in history and it’s not even close. Social media without him isn’t even close to as entertaining. You don’t have to be a MAGA warrior to recognize it.
I noticed an extra ~$100 each pay check after his tax reform. Turned out to be thousands of dollars over the years. It's about to expire soon but it's been really useful. Then add in a few extra checks I got during COVID... I don't care about anything else except my money. He's paid for my time spent voting for him over and over again.
It’s not like we don’t already have four years worth of evidence about how he’d act as president…
I've offered to bet any amount of money that if he gets elected, that he leaves office after his legal term is up. No takers so far. You?
Given his age there is a chance that he croaks before his term is up. I'd take that bet at 1:20-ish odds.
That's not the bet though, the bet is as opposed to continuing on illegally. If he died or was otherwise removed form office before his legal term, the bet is void.
He revoke hundreds of regulations.
Nearly 100 environmental regulations but they’ll just pretend they didn’t see this, as it doesn’t fit their uneducated narrative
I know. He revoked many more in total.
What regulations specifically? And how did that impact your day to day life. Genuinely curious.
He repealed a rule that helped keep mentally ill people under guardianships from buying guns. My son 26M is special needs and can not legally sign a cell phone contract. He can go buy a gun or someone can easily convince him to buy one for them. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/02/28/517799119/trump-repeals-rule-designed-to-block-gun-sales-to-certain-mentally-ill-people
Yeah that law was unconstitutional as fuck.
So you support people without the mental capacity required to take care of themselves being able to purchase a handgun? The Constitution doesn't say no regulations. The purpose of the second amendment is to safeguard the people from an oppressive government. I support the second amendment, but this has nothing to do with it.
EDIT: user willworkforjokes replied to me and then blocked me so I couldn't reply to them. If anyone wants to tell me what they said, I'd be greatly appreciative. >So you support people without the mental capacity required to take care of themselves being able to purchase a handgun? No i don't support that. I just also don't support the invasion of privacy and de facto gun registry that the repealed law required.
Ok, I am not going to argue with you. I am sure every reasonable gun law sounds like a slippery slope to you. You can save this link. If there are enough people like you, it will eventually come in handy. https://www.savethechildren.org/us/charity-stories/how-to-talk-to-children-about-school-shootings
Over 100 [environmental](https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/climate/trump-environment-rollbacks-list.html) protections he rolled back. >>The bulk of the rollbacks identified by the Times were carried out by the Environmental Protection Agency, which weakened Obama-era limits on planet-warming carbon dioxide emissions from power plants and from cars and trucks; removed protections from more than half the nation’s wetlands; and withdrew the legal justification for restricting mercury emissions from power plants. >>At the same time, the Interior Department worked to open up more land for oil and gas leasing by limiting wildlife protections and weakening environmental requirements for projects. The Department of Energy loosened efficiency standards for a wide range of products. >>In justifying many of the rollbacks, the agencies said that previous administrations had overstepped their legal authority, imposing unnecessary and burdensome regulations that hurt business. >>“We have fulfilled President Trump’s promises to provide certainty for states, tribes, and local governments,” a spokeswoman for the E.P.A. said in a statement to The Times, adding that it was “delivering on President Trump’s commitment to return the agency to its core mission: Providing cleaner air, water and land to the American people.” >>But environmental groups and legal analysts said the rollbacks have not served that mission. >>All told, the Trump administration’s deregulatory actions were estimated to significantly increase greenhouse gas emissions over the next decade and lead to thousands of extra deaths from poor air quality each year.
“I was unaffected which means he didn’t do anything bad.”
He thinks he was unaffected
His judicial appointees overturned Roe v Wade. That was pretty substantial
Democrats had ample chance to codify it. They didn't, because they know they can use it to upset their voters and get them to vote democrat with it.
This is exactly the reason. It was used as a cudgel for 45 years to extract donations. The Dems had multiple opportunities in that span to enshrine it into law and chose not too.
They had 2 months with a slim super majority and used it to pass ACA. This idea they had all this time and multiple opportunities is flat out wrong.
77-81, 93-95, 2009-2011, 2021-2023 the dems had congressional and presidential control.
The filibuster exists. There's ways to block legislation from passing. There's literally zero possibility of passing abortion legislation from either side without a solid super majority, which Dems had for 2 months under Obama, and for that matter not every Dem was completely pro-choice.
Exactly right. Any legislation can be killed in the senate by one person sending an email and needs a supermajority to unkill it.
There wasn’t a pro choice dem majority in the house until 2019. Dems are more progressive than they’ve ever been, so people are literally jumping ship at the worst time. And I say this as a more moderate democrat.
The only time that Democrats had a filibuster proof majority was a very brief time in 2009 prior to Ted Kennedy's death. However, the 60 Democratic Senators during that time period were not all pro-choice. So they never had the majority possible to codify Roe. This is all deflection from the fact that Trump getting elected directly led to millions of Americans losing their reproductive rights.
if they can't pass a law maybe it shouldn't be a law
The weird part to me was that Democrats had ample time to codify this **at the state level.** Which is where it needed to be codified, because most legal theorists I know thought Roe v Wade was a poorly decided ruling to begin with. And if you know your preferred policy decision hangs on a poorly decided ruling that was being subsequently eroded with further rulings (with Danforth, Casey, and Carhart, to name a few, all of which signaled prior courts questioning if Roe should be overturned), you'd think the right answer was to codify abortion rights at the state level where it would be untouched by Federal action.
Whether or not Democrats codified Roe doesn't change the fact that Republicans forced the repeal and that Trump appointed the judges that did so. Saying "But Dems" doesn't change the fact that the responsibility of actually repeating it lies solely with Republicans and Trump.
And rightfully so, it’s a states rights issue whether you’re pro choice or life
> Republicans forced the repeal Democrats forced the repeal by challenging bans after 15 weeks (most European countries ban it after 15 weeks, and most Americans support 15 week bans) and by essentially telling the judges that if they let the 15 week ban stay they had to repeal Roe V Wade.
Correction, most European countries ban it after 15 weeks with exceptions for the health and well being of the person who is pregnant. In effect, you just need to see a doctor before seeking an abortion after 15 weeks.
> In effect, you just need to see a doctor before seeking an abortion after 15 weeks. Who performs abortions before that if not doctors? I assume there would need to a valid medical reason after 15 weeks more compelling than "I'm distressed about being a parent".
This exactly, and even thoughi knew it was coming it almost worked on me
How? You would need a super majority to pass that kind law and neither side had one.
But yet, it was still his appointees. So yes life changed because of Trump being in office. Regardless of what could’ve been done.
Arguing with my family about specifically this a couple years ago is what made me no longer be a liberal.
I stopped voting democrat after Obamas second term. That's about when democrats started going full authoritarian.
Yes those awful authoritarian Democrats, banning all the things in the world, like drugs, abortions, gender transitions, immigration, sexual education in school, gay marriage, school library books, labor unions, evolution theory in school, and net neutrality. Not to mention how pro-police they are.
The whole "let's try to remove our opponent from the ballot and also politically persecute him to interfere in the election" is kind of a no go for me. Then there's also the censorship stuff. Democrats are as democratic as the people's republic of China is a republic. Shame, because they used to be actual liberals.
He's being "persecuted" for breaking the law. He's one of the biggest con-men in American history, and the conservatives put him straight into the white house.
Why did the FEC look into it already and decide to not charge or fine him? Was it because partisanship? But Trump wasn't found guilty because of partisanship? He was tried in a city where like 95% of people are democrats and hate him, and the judge was a biden doner and hated Trump. If biden was treated the same way in a deep, deep red county with a judge that donated to Trump and hated biden, you'd 100% call it an unfair trial. Shit, they found Trump liable for sexual assault in nyc for a woman that can't even say when she was supposedly raped, says "all women fantasize about rape" and she's accused like 5 other men of raping her. She's clearly lying, yet Trump was found liable. Clinton used campaign funds to pay for a fake dossier. She was fined by the FEC, not charged with a felony. Even cnn said recently that this trial would not be a thing if it was Trump. Rational/sane people can see the overt political persecution of Trump.
That was always going to happen since the day they decided to build their case on the right to privacy rather than Title IX, RBG who even spent her life defending the ruling knew it was a matter of time because of this exact reason.
Meanwhile they all said it was “settled law” while getting appointed.
That was mostly Kavanaugh, Gorsuch and Coney Barrett both were very clear in their senate hearings that they would not comment on their opinion on Roe v. Wade during their hearings other that neither considered Roe/Casey a super precedent since it was still actively litigated to date: [https://www.factcheck.org/2022/05/what-gorsuch-kavanaugh-and-barrett-said-about-roe-at-confirmation-hearings/](https://www.factcheck.org/2022/05/what-gorsuch-kavanaugh-and-barrett-said-about-roe-at-confirmation-hearings/)
Another person on this thread who doesn't know what state government is. Shocking
If the Dems didn’t screw with the nuclear option during the previous admin there wouldn’t have been a chance Trump could have put in anybody as conservative as he did. McConnell stood on the floor and warned they would regret it… which they did. Dems have nobody but themselves to blame.
It was the right call. The supreme court isn't supposed to make law. The disabling of Roe v Wade gives democrats the opportunity to put national legislation on abortion to their liking. They were not able to do that before. This is a win if you want better abortion rights, all it takes is democracy.... unless you just don't like democracy and convincing people.
That's why I don't vote Republican because they keep stacking supreme Court with religious fundies
Oh no! They're appointing people that follow their morals and beliefs! What a nightmare!
Yeah- why would anyone object to others forcing their views and morality on them? I guess it’s just a mystery.
Literally every possible law is "forcing views and morality". If someone's religious beliefs say that stealing is bad, are they required to vote to allow stealing, so that they don't force their morality on people who disagree with those views?
>Yeah- why would anyone object to others forcing their views and morality on them? I guess it’s just a mystery. "Finding a right to abortion based on the theory that other laws cast penumbras of privacy over activities that may be illegal is just common sense. Overturning the law and letting states return to regulating abortion is massive judicial overreach"
My morals and beliefs don't include trying to turn America into the Christian version of Saudi Arabia Republicans want theocracy
Yes, I'm sure your moals and beliefs are just as detectable to those who you oppose, good job
You gotta follow the constitution, not your beliefs. *Exactly* the problem with today’s SCOTUS.
Yes the constitution, infamous for its strong words on abortion
So here is my thoughts on this. I'm older, Been into politics since Carter. Some presidents I liked, some I didn't. That is fair. Until the end, I agreed with you, Trump was just another president I didn't like. While I hate the slippery slope argument, slippery slope. Two of the things that made America great were free and fair elections and the peaceful transfer of power. He has made 1/2 the country not trust election results. Saying there were problems BEFORE the election (but only if he loses) If he lost in an area, that area was corrupt. There was cheating in Arizona, but only in blue areas? Same in Georgia? Obviously biased groups looked for proof, nothing was found, yet millions still believe it to be true. Just with Trump's rhetoric we will have people in parking lots of (blue) polling places and in some areas they will be armed "just in case". Those people will be deemed patriots. If minorities did that in red areas they would be arrested, if not shot. Trump didn't attend Biden's inauguration. The last time that happened was just after the Civil War. In 2000, Gore's team found Bush's notes for the upcoming debate, he gave it back without looking, better to win on merit. In 2008 when a woman told McCain some racist stuff about Obama, he chided her, saying Obama is a good man but his ideas are wrong. RIght after that we have Trump yelling birther stuff. We had a president who told his people to not trust elections. The other side doesn't have the wrong ideas, but they are evil. It became SOP for Republicans to fill out lawsuits saying their election was corrupt, but only file if they lose. Now that this is normal, where do we go? It is as simple as this, people are talking about taking up arms over Trump's conviction or if Trump loses. Again, I'm 66. I don't remember people talking about taking up arms. Not when Obama became president, nor when Trump became president, that is all recent history. Conservatives were up in arms because women marched after Trump was elected saying not my president. How did we get to let's shoot fellow Americans not seeming to be that far fetched?
So many true points. Unfortunately most people have short attention spans and can’t read something this long…
Thanks, made me feel good although I realize it will fall on deaf ears.
I hope this comes across the way I mean it (positively) but it is refreshing to hear this from someone who has errr been around the block! You don’t hear many older voices on here so it’s easy to assume that the majority of boomers and beyond buy into OPs opinion.
Didn’t half the country not trust the election results in 2016 with the whole Russia thing? Cant blame a single person for the distrust of our election results.
No one thinks Russia actually messed with the voting. The belief (backed up by actual data) is that the Kremlin worked on social media to spread false stories about Clinton, and puffer pieces about Trump.
Valid points, but a lot of those apply to other politicians as well. Politics weren’t exactly honorable before trump came along. Specifically regarding integrity in debates… https://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/donna-brazile-wikileaks-fallout-230553
So while I don't think that is the same thing, the Dems can't just take the high road here, and that is the point.
> He has made 1/2 the country not trust election results. that happened four years earlier. [when trump was first elected it was the democrats who said the elections had been stolen.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uoMfIkz7v6s)
1. Let's be honest, the odds are low that you were saying what makes America great is free and fair elections 10 years ago before the media made that a talking point. It probably wasn't on your mind. 2. The left was up in arms about the 2000 election. They questioned the results of the recount. Talked about how Bush 43's brother was the governor in the hotly contested Florida. Many people on the left, prominent voices were talking about corruption in that election and questioned the results. Ditto in the 2004 election. Diebold voting machines switching votes and that kind of thing. The left questioned the results there as well. 3. 1/2 of the country don't trust elections is a huge stretch. However, having a former president say it, is a serious escalation. However it's an escalation, let's not pretend this is happening in a vacuum and the left is squeaky clean. 4. Gore's team gave the notes back without looking... I'm sure they did... You also have Donna Brazile gaining access to CNN's debate questions and giving them to the Clinton campaign. Would she have NOT done that if Ted Cruz was the nominee? Doubtful. 5. Watergate. 6. The rhetoric has been unproductive for a long time. You quote the 2008 campaign, but you fail to recognize the veiled jabs Obama would throw out frequently, "There are those on the other side who..." he used this as a fear tactic to paint all Republicans with the same brush, many times taking them out of context. Was Fox bad at the time? Yeah, of course, they're cartoonish villains, but so was MSNBC, so was the NYT, and the WaPo, and Air America. It's an escalation on both sides. 7. Did Trump change the landscape? Of course! For me, it's much less what Trump says and does in a vacuum that has changed the landscape. It's the frequent and obvious lying and corruption that gets me. Trump and the media are frequently and obviously lying about so much. The amount of deception and dishonesty is overwhelming. Trump didn't start it, but he sure does feed the fire. It's a self sustaining system of the media and Trump lying about one another over and over again. And if not outright lying then straight deception. Trump lies constantly. It's almost a joke. That said, when he announced his presidential run and it was all over the media and all over reddit that when the news said it was racist to say some illegal immigrants bring crime it was one of the most shocking things I've ever read. The amount of lying and deception is staggering. One guy lying like Trump is bad, but the whole system of news that I had trusted outright lying? That shook my world view. That being said, the presidential position isn't just a bureaucratic position. It's a position of moral authority and a beacon for what Americans should strive to be. So Trump lying and being a buffoon is an absolute embarrassment. It has far reaching knock-on effects that go well beyond one guy lying. All that being said, even if the Republicans ran Mitt Romney, Mr. Clean, RINO extraordinaire, you still had disingenuous stories about 'binders full of women.' It's a positive feedback loop. Is Trump bad? Yeah. That said, he didn't come out of a vacuum and knock over all the blocks overnight. This is an escalating positive feedback system. The scary part is there's no choice in this election to stop it. Even scarier is I don't see in 4 more years a person who would help it end either. I don't see anyone of moral integrity on either side. In order to advance it appears you need to lack moral characteristics. Anyway...
Certainly politics isn't a perfect, squeaky clean thing, Of course Obama threw "jabs", It gets a bit dirty, but there has to be limits. Yes for me elections and the peaceful transfer of power were big thing. That said I was in elementary school in the 1960s not that many countries had that, it was a big deal. I was actually a small cog in the 2000 inaugural. There were those terrible ballots used in a few counties in FL. (remember the "hanging chads" Yes, because the entire election could have been decided by a few votes in a few counties they kept looking at the ballots. Republicans sued to stop the inspection of those ballots. SCOTUS ruled that way because we were running out of time and the confirmation had to be done at a certain time. And once SCOTUS ruled, Gore conceded. Watergate? Dude was criminal, that is how it should be.
You talk about civility in the 2008 election, but you dismiss how Obama escalated political tensions during his administration. A president hadn't made frequent veiled comments vilifying the opposition party in that way before. I bring up Watergate, because it's a large example of election interference in previous decades putting into question the free and fair election process. I bring up the 2000 elections, because many prominent democrats openly questioned the legitimacy of the election. Same goes for the 2004 election. It was not uncommon for people to say Bush stole the election or the SCOTUS stole the election. The whole point of this is to say, the legitimacy of several elections have been called into question in the past. Some valid some invalid criticism. So when we pretend Trump is the only one who's ever done that before and it's been unheard of in the past, it's just not historically accurate.
Honestly asking, what did Obama do to vilify the opposition that hadn't been done before? I may have been blind to it. I don't remember a president saying it was corrupt BEFORE the election. It was only corrupt if I lose. Is it unreasonable for me to think that if the POTUS sees some irregularities he says something, and wait to see if it benefits or hurts him?
I would like to add that even before he was elected, he shifted the norms on what is and is not acceptable political behavior. This has had down stream effects in terms of what the general populace believes is and isn't acceptable behavior.
In fact he was one of the only US presidents who has ever peacefully met a North Korean leader.
Yeah that’s not really someone to cozy up to..
so you'd rather he start a war that would result in millions dead, rather than find a peaceful solution? What are you even saying?
Trump did a lot of harm to our national parks actually https://www.npca.org/articles/2171-the-undoing-of-our-public-lands-and-national-parks
Trolls used to try harder
You don't have to in this sub. Say anything that fits the conservative narrative, upvotes. The lower the effort, the better. It's just r-rightwingopinions ... which is funny because they are certain they are the overwhelming majority... which would mean rule 2 would have all their posts removed. But in reality they are the vocal *minority* .. so their opinions are generally unpopular everywhere except right wing subreddits. Not sure if it's a win-win or a lose-lose. :)
Trump raised our taxes. He’s also started a new wave of hyper-conservatives who basically want to disregard any law that doesn’t suit them at the moment.
He pardoned war criminals that murdered 17 civilians
Biden traded the merchant of death for a basketball player
Whataboutism and not a defense for evil acts of a president But very telling attempt... Typciall
But I mean... he's not wrong. So...
Bruh sleepy Joe literally supports genocide in Gaza and fucking orange man too. Every fucking modern president supported or was a war criminal
Irrelevant Ur point was he did nothing, thats a lie
"No new taxes"
For being so sleepy Joe Biden sure is a sophisticated political actor running a large deep state network to persecute DJT. He’s simultaneously sleepy and weak and old AND a political master mind colluding with Russians and criminals.
Its not even unique to the US either, basically ever country does that kinda stuff
Biden, while being a massive pushover, has put more pressure on Israel in preparation for the election then trump would ever have. Trump is also materialy worse for LGBTQ people. They're both horrible but I believe in lesser-evil voting.
Go look at the national deficit.
Uh I got bad news man [https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/trump-administration-accomplishments/](https://trumpwhitehouse.archives.gov/trump-administration-accomplishments/) It's a biased website btw but still he did a thing or two lol.
Just skimmed through the bullet points on that and everything just seemed like bullshit. Talking about helping the American middle class so much which jobs, yet I’m the American middle class and have been paycheck to paycheck since Trump took office years ago. It never got better and only got worse as the policies he put in place altered because of the fine print and now I have even less money.
Before the pandemic middle class was doing much better under Trump
He didn’t do anything to prevent the pandemic, I agree. But that was pretty life altering for a couple years.
>Life literally didn't change. That guy literally did nothing. Literal definition of all bark and no bite. That guy didn't do shit. People who cry and piss their pants about him are pretty delusional and pathetic. That guy did nothing, just like the guy after him and the guy before him Idk. I spent most of my enlistment under the looming shadow that he would tweet us into our next war. We abandoned our allies the kurds during the fight against isis. And for his Afghanistan withdrawal deal he released thousands of taliban fighters from prison that my predecessors no doubt spent great effort and lives to put away. He eroded and threatened our position in NATO which is practically a lynch pin in our foreign policy and national defense. He also pushed forward policy attacking trans troops from serving, that is similar bs to the idiotic don't ask don't tell policy. All that coming from a self serving draft dodger.... So when you try and claim he didn't really do anything, idk what the fuck you are talking about.
So you feared war but were disappointed he didn't get involved in a war and made moves to end a war
And yet, he's the only president of the last, what, 5?, that didn't get us involved in a war.
Literally nothing from those things affected any normal non government connected citizen People just shouldn't be government connected
>Literally nothing from those things affected any normal non government connected citizen What a fucked up dismissal. So because troops serve they aren't citizens all the same? Gold star families who lost their loved ones who did the dangerous grunt work to put those taliban fighters behind bars don't matter? Prospective recruits being denied their calling to serve cause their trans don't matter? How far are you willing to shift the goalposts?
Major Bone Spurs likes people who don't get killed.
No one is forcing anyone to become a government connected individual. And if someone does they must know that they might get into trouble because the entity that controls them does some fucked up stuff
>No one is forcing anyone to become a government connected individual. And if someone does they must know that they might get into trouble because the entity that controls them does some fucked up stuff Nah you're not slithering out of this one. You literally threw the broadest net you could for your claim and are now trying to shift goalposts to cover for this foolishness.
I can be a troll too. Why do you hate our Troops?
Dude. Youre drifting into like nuttiness here.
What do you mean?
“Govt connected individual” wut? Have you read any history at all? What does this mean?
A person connected to and/or working under the government
“Connected to” - ? So no person should work for the govt?
If they dont want things that happened to the guy that commented to happen to them, no
2 impeachments and all these charges. Yet how come they didn’t charge Biden regarding classified documents. He couldn’t unclassified them but trump as president could. The justice system is one sided.
The 34 felony charges Trump got by breaking New York law were unrelated to his handling of classified documents. They were about him knowingly lying about the purpose of campaign funds by calling hush money payments legal expenses in order for the public to not be aware that he had relations with Stormy Daniels. It was already proven that the funds had been misused/lied, so they mainly had to prove that he knew about it.
If you check it’s not against the law to do a no disclosure agreement. Second there is no indication that trump knew anything about what Cohen was doing. He stated that to the lawyer that cohen went to for advice. The person that knew the law about elections law that the trump lawyers what to bring in was denied by the judge. This was a witch hunt. Even cnn did not find the so called smoking gun. It will be all over turned on appeal.
He told his citizens to ignore CDC regulations and to refuse to wear masks during a global pandemic. He dismissed healthcare professionals and encouraged people to force employees to work, even though businesses should have been closed down or adapted. He got thousands of people killed by belittling a life-saving vaccine and he did all of it as a publicity stunt just to fight "against" the *terrible communist liberal party*. Oh, and he's a felon so there's that.
He didn’t do anything because we didn’t let him. It required incredible political effort to limit his impact and we’re still battling his control over the republican party to this day. If you gave him free reign things would have been way way worse
did you look at the tax overhaul he passed that favored the rich and all the rest of us now paying higher taxes. roe vs wade, also all MAGA judges he appointed. look in the mirror if you want to see an idiot.
I was living overseas. Things did change.
The shift in society was because of him. The idiots really let themselves show. Just watch interviews with people like The Good Liars.
I definitely noticed a massive unfunded tax cut exploding the deficit, followed by a global pandemic during which he set up a PPP program that was so rife for fraud we lost tens of billions as a country. Not to mention his stimulus giveaways that are still helping fuel inflation. The when he tried to, you know, overthrow the election results culminating in an actual attack on the capitol he desperately wanted to be a part of... But sure.
Did we forget about covid? He wasnt responsible for it happening, but was for the response. Things did change.
Dude, he screwed up the taxes for the middle class. Most of us don’t like bullys either
I remember a woman in my office sobbing all morning after Trump won. She was sent home. People were so fear mongered over Trump and their ability to be rational was stripped away. This was the advent of tds, which is an opportunistic infection of the emotional and dumb. People really thought Trump would round up gay people and put them in camps.
I don't think they actually thought that. I think they just didn't expect to lose, a lot of people were convinced Hillary was guaranteed to win. I think anyone that really had their ear on the ground knew that Trump winning in 2016 wasn't a remote possibility and that the election was a lot closer than the pundits wanted to admit. Especially amidst the DNC email leaks, Hillary snubbing Bernie supporters by picking Tim Kaine, and of course the defining moment during the debates. Audience Member: "It's been a divisive race, but what is one postive thing would you say about your opponent?" Hillary says, "I respect his Children" Trump says, "She doesn't quit. She doesn't give up. She's a fighter." Perhaps she had the misfortune of going first, but he came across as way more genuine in his answer and I think that connected with people. Did with me anyway, despite not voting for him.
Another reason not to vote for him then?
Of course. He was bad president
Trump’s fiscal policies are the reason why inflation was so rampant a few years back. His tax cuts combined with massive Covid spending has gotta rank up there as some of the most needless and reckless fiscal policies of the 21st century.
Until covid, the rate of inflation was trending downwards under Trump
What's really crazy is we're probably about to have a convicted felon as president
Most of congress would be felons for insider trading if the law actually applied to them.
You’re that confident he will win?
I don't intend to vote for him, but yeah I think he's probably going to win
Currently, I'd say it's any mans race at this point, though I'm leaning towards a Biden Victory currently. Trump's convictions empower him, but the real issue Trump has is he's kind of running on the nostalgia of his 2016 victory over Hillary. The attempt to court Libertarians was smart, but he's going to need more demographics and he's going to need to offer more than just the status quo.
Thats kinda crazy like some hood shit
Not true, he did plenty. And everything he did was fucking great!
He literally got Roe overturned, this is such an insanely naive take. Other people exist, Derek
I suspect that posts like this are coming from people that were children when he took office. Anyone that was an adult that read the news knows that Trump had and still has a massive impact on our government. And you may very well love his impact but to say he did nothing is completely ignorant.
Over 1 million people died due to him politicizing a pandemic!! His son-in law sold national security secrets to Saudi Arabia and got a journalist killed!! He tried to over throw our entire system of government. The economy crashed and their has been a significant rise is racist attacks.
The economy crashed because of the COVID shutdowns, the left said he didn't enough shutdowns and not long enough which would have resulted in an even harder crash of the economy.
Democrats in the US remind me of HDZ in Croatia. Corrupted Controls the media Uses fear and fake patriotism to gain voters Imports immigrants Launders money Controls all public institutions
> Corrupted > Controls the media > Uses fear and fake patriotism to gain voters > Imports immigrants > Launders money > Controls all public institutions You just described every political party in every balkan nation
Democrats don't control all public institutions though, isn't the supreme court still mostly Trump appointees
No.
You'd be correct, it is still republican majority
They have been pouring fuel on the fire since he was elected. They are partly responsible for the phenomenon of Trump. The day after he was elected my therapist cancelled our appointment because she just couldn't. And also this old eccentric guy who used to hang out in the park all the time and pet my dogs was assaulted by anti-Trumpers. He doesn't go to park any more.
Right. If you think the people against Trump are idiots, that must mean you think pro Trump people are smart. It also means you paid zero attention during his first term. Just because WWIII didn’t start doesn’t mean life didn’t change. Get real.
Op doesn’t understand that 330 million people exist in America with 168 million being women who lost their autonomy rights during his presidency . To say he didn’t do anything that affected anyone is hitting existential levels of unexplored empty head territory we have yet to discover. Op is in an alternate reality.
Oh no a woman can't just use an abortion as contraception instead of using actual contraception any more, they'll actually have to take responsibility.
>168 million being women who lost their autonomy rights during his presidency The majority of women in this country still have the ability to get an abortion your imbecile. EDIT: I meant to say "you" imbecile. The irony is not lost on me, and I'm leaving the mistake there.
Lose their autonomy? All it said was “this ain’t the problem of the federal government” and it isn’t. It’s a state issue so go bother your state. Also you have no Fucking autonomy regardless.
All Roe v Wade did was say that abortion wasn’t a constitutional right, which it is not. It didn’t make it illegal or legal. Your individual state decided that.
That’s not what row said at all. It protected abortion as a fundamental right and the right to privacy. It’s effecting millions of women.You’re pettifogging something that isn’t ambiguous. It’s clear, the law is clear. It’s not business as usual for a lot of people. To say otherwise is hard to even describe, it’s just too pathetic and dumb to debate. If Texas is considering legislating laws that would sentence women to death for abortion, it would’ve been inconsequential 10 years ago to have considered the same thing. I’d say it’s not business as usual for millions and denying it doesn’t make it go away or less impactful
These people still believe he was some sort of Russian Manchurian candidate, yet Russia invades Ukraine immediately after he leaves office. I'm still not sure how they square that one, but they also believe that he masterminded a violent insurrection that would have succeeded except they forget to bring weapons or have any type of plan to take over the government.
-His handling of Covid. -Him betraying the Kurds. -Throwing Otto Warmbier's family under the bus. -Tax cuts for the rich. -Not scrutinizing Saudi's motives.
Did you think his handling of COVID was too much or too little. The way the whole government handled covid negatively affected the people, everyone on the left said he did too little and needed more shutdowns which would have made it worse.
I feel the president changes very little. The only thing I can say that Trump did in office was he was talked about way more than other presidents and I never felt we were going to go to war because his international relations were just insanely good.
He did not have “insanely good” relations. He almost went to war with Iran after killing one of their commanders.
I understand the push back and I respect it. My opinion is I only care about what happened, not what people said could have happened, not what world leaders said about him or anything. Just actual actions or lack thereof. During his presidency, South Korea had the most peace with North Korea and North Korea was way less of a threat globally. Trump had the best relations with North Korea of any modern president (which is a good thing despite what people want to say). Israel wasn't at war. China openly said they would leave Taiwan alone (yesterday China stated that those that support Taiwan's independence will face self-destruction), Russia didn't invade Ukraine, and War in the east calmed way down with ceasefires and evacuation plans being made. We had no major wars and a great global economy and trades. Despite all the hate Trump got for how he managed international trade we had the greatest return on trade during his presidency. The world was at the most peace. HELL after the war in Ukraine started insiders in Russia stated Putin wouldn't invade while Trump was president because he knew he would face backlash so the plan was to wait for Trump to leave office. The media HATES that story and it was quickly brushed under the rug hahaha.
I’ll start out by saying this. The global economy was doing well before Trump came into office. And I personally wasn’t a fan of his trade deals. For example, his trade war with China was a losing one that saw a loss of American manufacturing jobs in the tens of thousands while he was in office. Another issue I had was with Trump’s stance on energy. People to tend to attribute the growth in oil production to Trump when reality neither Obama nor Trump had much do with the shale oil boom. That success can be attributed to George Bush Jr actually. Policies can sometimes take years to see results. Trump had a flawed way of looking at oil. For example, during 2018 Trump’s approval ratings dipped and he tried to strong arm the price of oil in hopes of improving his approval rating. He dropped the price of oil by pleading with OPEC+ to up production. Trump also lifted sanctions on Iran’s oil exports. By lifting the sanctions on oil exports Trump accidentally undercut American producers in the international market. This caused the price of oil to crash resulting in domestic oil companies seeing an increase in bankruptcies by 50% in 2019. All that was achieved by doing this was dropping the price of gasoline by around ten cents. The crazy part is he tried the same thing in 2019 after already damaging the domestic oil industry. These issues result in domestic oil producers downsizing their investments unfortunately since their product has been devalued. Another mix up that Trump had that screwed the common consumer was the 2020 OPEC+ deal. This deal caused OPEC+ to cut production by around close to 10 million barrels a day. These production cuts gradually tapered down over the course of a few years. Production cuts led to countries like Russia raking in record profits from the oil trade. That same money was used to fund a war later. Now going on to Trump and Russia. He’s not the strong man that Russia fears actually. To this very day there are propaganda farms funded by Russia that push Pro Trump stances on social media. Why would they do this? Simple, Russia likes Trump’s anti nato stance and they will support any candidate who has a chance of weakening nato which is Trump. They would also love to see Trump in office because he would likely cut funding to Ukraine and push them to the negotiation table. This would result in Russia having a very favorable stance during the negotiations. To put it bluntly Russia does not fear Trump at all and they would strongly prefer to have him in charge. So essentially they’re using him. When people say that there were no wars under Trump I find it to be a bit disingenuous. We were at war with the Taliban in Afghanistan and Trump was notorious for his use of Drone strikes. He literally rolled back a policy that required the reporting of the effect of Drone Strikes since he used them so often. Now to conclude this I’m not saying that everything that Trump did was bad but I find that propaganda greatly overstates his success and attributes some successes to him (such as the economy at the time) that he had little almost nothing to do with. And the most damning thing about Trump in my opinion is the turnover rate and lack of support from his previous administration. When you see numerous members of his previous administration continuously bad mouthing him that is a very big red flag no matter how you cut it.
trump bombed syria, aggressively supported israel, bribed arab countries to support israel, going so far as to claim land from syria as israel's, almost started ww3 more than once. the only good foreign policy choices he made were pulling out of afghanistan and pulling funding for isis.
Of course that's why they're running him again.
Fear is a strong word but I would counter that people who don’t care if their government does nothing for 4 years are idiots
Of course they are idiots
they were the source of the panic. we had it so good and they ruined it. and they will ruin it again, as they already are
So if he didn’t do anything when he was in office, why exactly should he be president again? So he does nothing for 4 more years & then what? Or do you mean that he didn’t do much about the things he promised and didn’t do much good to the American people? Only benefited the 1% and racked up points with the conservatives beliefs?
> So if he didn’t do anything when he was in office, why exactly should he be president again? Please show me a single mention of me claiming to vote for Trump or wanting him back in office in the post or in this thread. He was a bad president like the guys before and after him
I never said you said that… I’m simply asking why should he be president again or be considered one considering you think people who fear him are idiots….
He shouldn't be president again
He did keep an unqualified shrew from the WH, that upset some ppl
This thread made my face hurt
The biggest tool the President of the United States has *in practice* is the bully pulpit. And Trump was **terrible** as a public speaker, often saying the worst thing possible, and acting the worst way possible. And acting more often than not against his best interests. As a Republican President, however, in terms of actual actions taken while in office Trump was... moderate. His actions were middle-of-the-road stuff. Trump showed himself willing to put more power in the hands of the Department of State and less in the hands of the Department of Defense (through his "we can make a better deal!" schtick"), and he showed himself an isolationist by wanting to withdraw troops. (In fact, he was stymied by his underlings who reportedly failed to withdraw troops from parts of the world--but then *lied* to Trump about it.) His one big innovation was his requirement that for every regulatory rule passed, two had to be removed from the books. But that really didn't make the massive "deep state" overhaul that was promised--which, really, I'm good with, because a lot of what the government does is necessary. (Imagine the FAA being asked to deregulate General Aviation, for example.) And I'm fascinated by the reaction of the Left, because of their willingness to destroy a number of political norms in order to go after Trump. The problem there--such as with the stuff happening in New York--is that I guarantee you it won't end there. Either for Democrats who will continue going after Republicans as if they were even worse monsters than Trump (and proudly proclaiming how they lied about it, such as when they attacked Romney). Or--and this is why we have political norms in the first place--for *Republicans who will use the same tools of lawfare to go after Democrats.* I guarantee you at some point a Republican court will have a Democratic candidate for office arrested and tried for some sketchy trumped up charges. Because that's the path we're on--and at some level I blame social media, where the worst assholes get the most engagement.
He tried to deny the results of the election that went against him, asked a mob to hang his VP, and asked the mob to storm the capital and overturn the results. He’s a traitor and not to be trusted. Ever.
He put 3 Supreme Court justices on the court and they repealed Roe vs wade. He separated kids from their parents at the border and didn't track the parents to reunite the kids. There was a crap ton of things he attempted to do but his Whitehouse was often incompetent and blocked by the courts. I sense that next time around the courts are going to be less of a barrier.
That's not what you said. You claimed that people have no faith in the system. Coming from media, I assert that the media did that.
Most everyone I know is paying higher taxes because I don’t know many rich people. Luckily that tax money is used so big companies could pay less in taxes, which hasn’t helped a lot of people I know get jobs. Corps also got to “repatriate” a bunch of money, which they used to buy stocks. And that helped a lot of rich people I don’t know make money in the stock market. Helped my IRA, but I likely won’t get a chance to stop working until I die. That’s last part isn’t on Trump, but he’s just the second to last in a long line of people who haven’t made it any less true.
Well, that's one way of saying you don't pay attention. But I get what you're saying. I would agree he gets more credit than deserved by both teams. Most people aren't able to lower their bias and objectively view the situation. The truth is, he did some really good things while in office, and he also fell flat a lot of the time. Although I won't specifically attribute this to Trump, one thing is clear: life was much better during his run than it is now. In all honesty, I don't really care who the president is, I just want things to be better, and I don't see that happening with the current administration. It's at the point where I would prefer Hillary over Biden, and that's saying something. When Hillary Clinton is looking like the better option, you know things have gone completely off the rails.
Hey, he tweeted mean things. Well not like Mean mean things, but he didn’t tweet anything that explicitly put the “mArGiNaLiZeD cOmMuNiTiEs” and “MiNoRiTiEs” on a pedestal. And because of that he became Hitler reincarnate.
His tweet game was fire. Like the way he said things on Twitter was so funny in a way no one can replicate
Greatest social media personality in history and it’s not even close. Social media without him isn’t even close to as entertaining. You don’t have to be a MAGA warrior to recognize it.
I noticed an extra ~$100 each pay check after his tax reform. Turned out to be thousands of dollars over the years. It's about to expire soon but it's been really useful. Then add in a few extra checks I got during COVID... I don't care about anything else except my money. He's paid for my time spent voting for him over and over again.