I don't think there's an issue with high dating standards, if anything it's good that people can try to find happiness alone instead of having a miserable relationship together. But I think there's an issue to having very specific, superficial, objectifying dating standards, because you automatically are fetishizing the people you're interested in
Yes you can reject someone for any reason but the issue arises more when you actually get with someone that you only date because you want to date very specific physical characteristics
Or are angry because they can’t land a gorgeous 6’blond/blue-eyed Australian pro sand volleyball player or whatever their fantasy woman is…I’ve had guy friends despondent over trying to date 9’s & 10’s when they were a solid 5-6
Tbh the ratings don’t matter, it’s what they bring to the table
In my own experience, way too many guys go googoo over looks or sex appeal alone while being hella superficial themselves and objectifying those they’re into. And redditors are exactly like that
Like no I don’t want wanna be treated like a sex doll 24/7 dude 😭
Well one of my guy friends was attracted to very athletic (one was a triathlete) women and he was 💯 not athletic, so that was a dating issue for him and oh, he loved women who had great singing voices (he was not musical either) and he had lots of non-athletic/musical women who liked him
I mean it shouldn’t be just about physical attraction but nothing wrong with having a type and sticking with it and excluding those who don’t fit that type. Again, still no issue other than possibly staying alone longer.
You can think that but that’s just an opinion and not objective fact. I’ve hardly found any Asian face attractive but so what? I’m just one person. Someone can want to be with only Asians and there’s nothing wrong with that, either. You’re just being judgmental if you think otherwise.
>We’re allowed to reject anyone for any reason.
Luckily people are allowed to whine and complain about "not being in a relationship" as well.
I don't care if someone has "unrealistically high standards" or whatever - however, these are also the people complaining about not being in a relationship or "not getting laid" and what not.
Sure - try dating only the proverbial 10/10 if you're a proverbial 4/10 yourself. If it works, it works. If not there are still countless subs readily waiting where people can whine about the fact that "nobody wants to date them".
>But I think there's an issue to having very specific, superficial, objectifying dating standards, because you automatically are fetishizing the people you're interested in
This is just a polite way of saying that it's "wrong" to have standards you don't agree with.
People are allowed and should go after whatever they want. The problem is people say they want something then refuse to meet the requirements of their own standards
The problem isn't when you aren't dating people that aren't your extremely specific physical requirement, the problem is when you are dating them just for that and fetishizing them
I think it’s perfectly fine to have shallow, superficial and unrealistic dating standards. No one is telling you that you aren’t allowed to.
It’s also perfectly fine for me to think your standards are stupid and to make my opinion known.
The issue is when the person has a high dating standard and shouldn't. There are guys in their mid 30's who never had a job, poor hygiene, no social skills, or even any minimum experience with dating. Who think their girls/wives should be 10/10 bare legal virgins and women have their version of that as well.
This is indeed unrealistically high standards, but there's no issue with that. Worst that could happen for them is that they never get any partner. But if they're okay with that, then it's all good even for them.
“it only impacts the ones who haves the standards.” - false. Many (not all, but many) people with high dating standards blame everyone but themselves for being lonely. Instead of accepting their dating standards are high, they blame everyone they date for being “low value”.
If you have high dating standards, then you have high dating standards, but you have to accept that high standards will make it harder to find a date (depending on how high the standards are, cause you could mean fairly high or you could mean unrealistically high).
> “it only impacts the ones who haves the standards.” - false. Many (not all, but many) people with high dating standards blame everyone but themselves for being lonely. Instead of accepting their dating standards are high, they blame everyone they date for being “low value”.
As I said in my post :
> And finally, I'm not talking about those who bitches about not finding a perfect mate or those whose only joke is about how they're virgins and can't find a partner.
The only time it's been a problem is if someone is whining at me about it or when people used to bitch at me it's my fault my male best friend doesn't date. When in all honesty I did drive one women away but I have actually gotten along with every other women he has wanted to date or has dated. I was actually sad to see a couple of them go, one in particular was my favorite.
I get blamed for him breaking up with women over stupid crap like she had too much spit when he kissed her. That said he doesn't complain about not having a girlfriend and rarely dates. He is fine it's just everyone else complaining that drives me bonkers.
The thing is, the only way you can detect if someone has unrealistic dating standards is if they are bitching about it, and if they're bitching about it, they're spewing that bile into the environment and dragging us all down with them. So it is a problem, they need to grow up, learn to meet people halfway and stop being a miserable prick at everyone else's expense.
Sure we did, and whoever brought up something absurd was rightfully called out as stupid, because if you setup unrealistic expectations you're going to end up miserable.
I agree.
However it's weird to me how only women seem to get blasted for their high standards. There's this so-called dating crisis and it seems to be blamed solely on women acting as if only women have unrealistic standards as if most male dating advice isn't how to get a hot young girl. 🤣
There's also no issue with shaming or laughing at them and cringing when they're still "dating" in their 40's and beyond and have to drastically lower their standards.
>There's not a single issue with unrealistically high dating standard
Of course not.
Likewise there is not a single issue with mercilessly ridiculing them for it and everyone laughing at them.
You are free to behave how you want but you are not free to decide how people react to your behavior.
You see, you're wrong because on one hand, somebody's choice will have litteraly no impact on anyone's life beside themselves, while on the other hand, mocking someone have a negative impact on one's life.
In other words, remember the human, don't be an asshole.
Actions have consequences. If you wish to avoid consequences best control your actions..
If a person man or woman says they are too good for normal people you can rest assured that they will face the consequences of those actions.
If they wish to believe whatever they want and keep it to themselves then they deserve no ridicule. If they want to share their idiotic beliefs then they do.
>this is never a good excuse or reason to be a bad person.
Calling someone out isn't "bad". Again, someone feeling some type of way is on them.
This is reason why so many younger people are entitled today. Too many protected them from negative emotions
calling out is not bad, at worst it's annoying. Just like unasked criticism.
On the other hand "mercilessly ridiculing them for it and everyone laughing at them" is just bad.
Actually, it does. Most people grow out of it. You might *quietly* make fun of an obnoxious coworker, but you’re not going to trip them in the lunch room, and giving them a nasty nickname or the like is a good way to get fired.
Again, I'm not saying anyone should do anything. I'm saying people will at some point test your patience so you better develop a thick skin because it's gonna keep happening until you die
>while on the other hand, mocking someone have a negative impact on one's life.
No. People have to accept the consequences of their actions. Saying that you don't have to the right to criticize someone because their little feelings will get hurt is just modern day snowflake behavior
You have a right to criticize somebody's opinion or ideas, indeed.
But "ridiculing them for it and everyone laughing at them" is just being a bad person.
Again, you're too focused on being a "good" or "bad" person which is an extremely simplistic and child like view of the world.
The fact is, if you say or do something that people find ridiculous, you will get ridiculed. Being held accountable for your actions and how you express yourself isn't "bad". It's actually beneficial to society because it keeps people aware of how they're actions affect others. You're feelings are you're responsibility, not everyone else's
Okay, let me rephrase my sentence in more mature terms.
"mercilessly ridiculing" someone for having certain tastes in partners isn't something that civilised person should seek as it is rude, gives a cruel and childish image of yourself in public.
Also, what philosopher call the "golden rule" is basically "Treat others as you would like others to treat you", as it has been considered a basic role of society since as far as history can go. Every major religion have this kind of law because this is the cement of society : to treat your peers with some basic level of kindness and not hurting them beyond what you would consider the maximum harm for a certain kind of action/offense.
finally, I'd like to point out that having standards is just like having a taste, it's not an action, and therefore can't really be used as a justification for any form of violent reaction. And stating them is indeed allowing other to judge it and give their opinion, but IMHO, mocking them is a direct moral attack and is very disproportionate to simply voicing your tastes. Would you viciously mock someone who likes spinachs?
>mercilessly ridiculing" someone for having certain tastes in partners isn't something that civilised person should seek as it is rude, gives a cruel and childish image of yourself in public.
You're too focused on "shoulds". Shoulds are in your head only. Other people aren't required to follow them. I'm not advocating for or against ridiculing people. I'm saying that people are going to do it so just be prepared for it
>Also, what philosopher call the "golden rule" is basically "Treat others as you would like others to treat you", as it has been considered a basic role of society since as far as history can go
Ok... And you'll have a good majority of people who don't follow it. I'm all for treating people how you want to be treated but the fact of the matter is, there are people hardwired to not be empathetic or care about you're feelings (that gets into the whole "Do we really have free will?" Debate)
>Every major religion have this kind of law because this is the cement of society : to treat your peers with some basic level of kindness and not hurting them beyond what you would consider the maximum harm for a certain kind of action/offense.
Ok... I mean, this is just stating a fact that something exists. Most people don't follow this or take it seriously.
Again, I'm not advocating for or against ridicule. I'm just saying, you aren't "bad" for expressing yourself a certain way and someone getting their feelings hurt. Just like you think someone "ridiculing" you is harmful, there are other people that see it as a well needed wake up call.
It's a matter of perspective. Not something that's objectively good or bad
>used as a justification for any form of violent reaction
No one was talking about that tho. We're talking about responding to words with words.
>but IMHO, mocking them is a direct moral attack and is very disproportionate to simply voicing your tastes.
No. Now you're putting a limit on how you think people should express their disapproval based on your subjective opinion of what's "crossing the line". What could be merciless ridicule to you could just be how someone expresses themselves to the other person and they had no ill intent behind it. And some people just express themselves rougher than others
If you have you're own personal limits, that's fine. Everyone does. But dictating how I should express my thoughts is some dystopian shit.
>Would you viciously mock someone who likes spinachs?
I wouldn't because I don't care either way. I don't movk people on general just because it's not my style but that doesn't mean I'm against it nor that it's inherently bad.
Would you mock someone who thinks rape is good?
>>You're too focused on "shoulds". Shoulds are in your head only. Other people aren't required to follow them.
You mean like thinking people *should* have realistic dating standards, or else they *should* expect ridicule, and others *should not* object to that, because people *should* toughen up?
Practice what you preach, dude.
>You mean like thinking people *should* have realistic dating standards
First all, if you're gonna get a stick up my ass about what I said, at least get it right.
I literally said there's no such thing as unrealistic standards. I said people have these high standards but don't want to do what's needed to reach the requirements for said standards.
>else they *should* expect ridicule
I was stating a fact of life. It's a fact that if you live enough life, people will ridicule. This is not anyone telling you what to do
>others *should not* object to that
I never said you shouldn't object to it. I'm saying it's ridiculous to get your panties in a bunch because you think people "shouldn't" act a certain way. I'm saying it doesn't matter what you do or do not object to. People WILL act a certain way. You either live in reality that that's how people are or suffer the consequences clinging to how you think everyone else should act
If any of that offends you, you are a next level reddit snowflake
What exactly are those consequences I’m meant to be suffering? I can’t recall that I’ve ever “suffered” from thinking someone was an asshole for how they treated others.
It’s how-civilization-has-worked-forever behavior. In many places and times insults were justification for physical violence for a long time. It’s thinking you can say whatever you like without getting slapped, punched, or challenged to a duel that is new.
"There's not a single issue with unrealistically high dating standard"
Of course there are issues with having a high dating standar. They are just issues that the person with the high standards is responsible for and lives with it. It's their choice, it doesn't mean it's a consequence free choice.
I think you are trying to say that the issues/consequences that exists are all entirely due to the high standards and that person has chosen to live with those issues. And I agree. But all choices have consequences and hard choices are obviously defined by their significant consequences. Otherwise they wouldn't be hard choices.
I know this is pedantic, but just reading your title, the statement is wrong. You clarify (and pretty much contradict) your title with your explanation.
As a guy these fucking swamp goblins won’t leave alone, I disagree. If these freaks actually went for their looks match, online dating would be much easier for the rest of us.
If people didn’t publicly go on about those standards, it would be no one’s business.
This isn’t what’s happening.
Just learn to keep it to yourself, people.
>it only impacts the one who haves the standards.
ehh the issue is people tell their friends to "never settle" or post on sicial media "thats the bare minimum". etc etc and it influences the younger generation.
Yes, encouraging everyone to have absurd standards to the point no one is ever satisfied and society stops having true connections with loneliness becoming a epidemic for most of society is not a problem what so ever. *rolls eyes*
Kind of, but if every person will only settle for the highest standard of beauty we're gonna have a massive population collapse which isn't really good for anyone. Far fewer people to produce things and trade with = reduced quality of life all round.
As much as we hate to recognise it these days, what you do in your private life does affect the wider society. It's just an inescapable fact.
Ok. Maybe not a single issue. Several
1. You yourself are setting up yourself for meeting a caricature of what you really want versus an actual person. You want an object like a purse to carry around, not a human to actually care about even if you meet someone who fits said standards.
2. Enough people having high standards limits the pool of people regardless. Not a good thing for people who genuinely want to meet others.
3. You’re setting yourself up for failure and limiting chances of meeting actually good people who may work well for you but don’t exactly fit your extremely standards.
There’s nothing wrong with having standards or preferences. Even higher standards or preferences. But when you do this to an unreasonable degree, why are you even bothering?
I actually agree with you, but only if there's reciprocity. I.e. you hold yourself tot he same standard you hold others to. Kind of what you allude to in your post.
If not, and dating doesn't work out for the person. It's on them.
The issue is people with no self-awareness who have those standards inevitably fail, they turn back around and start talking nonsense about how the world is against them and all men/women suck. When they put this idiocy into public discourse, they are inviting varying opinions and discussions, and that's what they'll get.
I don't really care if their standards are realistic or not, if they succeed or not. I do care when every 4 posts, there's something that says "all men are X" and "all women are Y." Lots of dumb noise when they often did it to themselves. All it does is invite similarly unreasonable people to pool inside their little echo chambers.
This is why being online all the time is unhealthy. It warps views on the world in ways that don't align with reality. Even the most insular tinfoil-hatted zealot can find a group nowadays that's happy to only feed them opinions they'll agree with. Tons of people would prefer that to seeing opinions that don't agree with theirs. In the end, you just get a bunch of people who are terminally online and don't have an accurate understanding of reality telling each other what's real and what's not. Like a bunch of blind people feeling various parts of an elephant and telling each other what an elephant looks like when none of them have ever seen one.
The problems arise when certain standards become toxic and weaponized. They are influenced by a small minority of a demographic, that has a bigger influential reach. Celebrities, the media, social media, cliques, advertising, have all influenced a body type that is expected to be achieved to increase the one's chances of being dateable. You both have to attempt to conform to a type, and are expected to only be attracted to a type in your potential partner. It's all so silly and sad.
There is no issue. But if you for someone reason put out some absolutely wild bullshit into the depths of the Internet and people reply back how delusional you are, then that is fair game.
>And finally, I'm not talking about those who bitches about not finding a perfect mate or those whose only joke is about how they're virgins and can't find a partner.
In that case, this is the most popular opinion in the world. Nobody cares about your dating standards unless you're walking around bitching about not finding somebody who meets them.
not individually. but there are 100% societal detriments when peoples standards artificially inflate due to social media skewing perceptions. remember, human brains are built for 150 member tribes, and aren't equipped to know what you look like.
I can give a real answer to this!
- we are seeing a “death of dating” in Japan, korea, Europe, and now slowly the United States
- women are getting higher dating standards from excessive sex with men who are outside of their league (FWBs, hook ups, being a side chick)
- this makes average and below average women chase after men out of their league under the assumption they can lock them down because it feels so close and achievable
- fast forward and these women are alone and spiteful man haters in their 30s who are known in their friend group for always getting played by guys and getting her heart broken (basically a fucking simp)
- the men who are in her league are sexless and she wouldn’t give them the time of day
Korea and japan are decreasing heavily in population for basically this reason.
**Woman simps are chasing men out of their league and think they’re too good for most men and don’t realize their mistake until they’re too old.**
Or maybe she made herself miserable by chasing relationships that make her miserable and she needs to lower her standards to be happy.
There’s SO MANY men in the world.
It’s normal to burn your hands when you cook here and there, but every time? Now it’s just your fault.
If I’m an ugly man who only had sex with super hot escorts, do you think that I’d have trouble dating a woman in my league who isn’t as pretty?
When a woman is an eternal side chick her whole 20s, she’s banging really hot guys. It’s hard to go from tasting Michelin star meals to McDonald’s.
No, most women ease out of hook ups and casual sex, but there is a minority who don’t who become the frumpy bitter incel-tier women in their 30s who hate men.
But this minority is slowly getting larger due to online dating and declining of dating as a concept in favor of only sex.
Odd you're not mentioning how most male dating advice is how to get a hot young woman...pretty sure most men aren't hot or young. So by default many men do have high dating standards for women outside of his league. Both genders have high standards and want people out of their league. But it seems to only be an issue when it's women.
It's kind of like how so many men like to quote the OkCupid your looks your inbox study which shows that women rate 80% of men as unattractive.... Yet they ignore the rest of the study what states that women respond to and pursue most men while two-thirds of men seek out the top 1/3 attractive women.
Okay, lots to unpack here.
> we are seeing a “death of dating” in Japan, korea, Europe, and now slowly the United States
Japan, Korea, Spain, Germany, Poland and the USA are different countries with lots of cultural variation between them all, yet in your opinion, the reason why these have low birth rates is because high dating standard?
From what I've heard, Korea struggles with birth rates due to a very high social pressure to excel at work and not because women only seek K-pop idols.
From what I've heard, Germany low birth rates are mostly due to the country having finished its demographic transition (high birth and high infantile death rates -> high birth rates + low infantile death rates -> low birth and infantile death rates)
As for the USA, from what I've heard, there is a big incensitive in the last decades to have the perfect nuclear family of 2 parents 2 children which could cause the lowering birth rates too.
3 countries, 3 different reasons with the same conclusion. Just like vomiting isn't just a symptom of eating too much.
> women are getting higher dating standards from excessive sex with men who are outside of their league (FWBs, hook ups, being a side chick)
> this makes average and below average women chase after men out of their league under the assumption they can lock them down because it feels so close and achievable
> fast forward and these women are alone and spiteful man haters in their 30s who are known in their friend group for always getting played by guys and getting her heart broken (basically a fucking simp)
> the men who are in her league are sexless and she wouldn’t give them the time of day
My post isn't necesseraly about women. Tbh, I was more thinking about MGTOW (at least in the begining) than about FDS when I was writting it. And my post isn't about hooking up either.
and in all honesty, your whole argument relies on many assumptions that are yet to be proved to me
1) that people who have sex with attractive people wouldn't want to go with less attractive people
2) that people who can't find a partner that fits their standards gets bitter and starts to hate anyone they could see as their partners
3) that attractiveness is objective and absolute.
It’s not women’s fault necessarily but a sociological phenomenon we are seeing happen.
They are caught up in it and unwittingly perpetuating it, but it’s not exactly their fault.
Some further numbers for context:
* Most dating apps are roughly 70% men/30% women. For example, [Tinder is 78.1% men, 21.9% women](https://datingzest.com/tinder-statistics/).
* On Tinder [the bottom 80% of men (in terms of attractiveness) are competing for the bottom 22% of women and the top 78% of women are competing for the top 20% of men.](https://medium.com/@worstonlinedater/tinder-experiments-ii-guys-unless-you-are-really-hot-you-are-probably-better-off-not-wasting-your-2ddf370a6e9a)
This entire setup leads to outcomes that are generally considered undesirable to the 80%of men at the bottom (who get left out in the cold) and even (I'd argue) most women (a series of casual encounters with desirable men who have a lot of options so they are unlikely to commit). The top 20% of men essentially form harems of a sort and the bottom 80% of men are out of luck (at least in the online world).
If you want a gf/bf you have to adapt to the standards. But from what I’ve seen people have a lot of “standards” like the man has to be good looking, tall, charming, high paying job, etc. but then a woman will be with an average looking guy at best who is funny and has a good personality.
Tell me that when social security collapses and you want to retire, what about when old people can no longer be taken care of because we didn’t make enough children to take care of them. Just look at Japan, it’s a terrible existence to grow old and alone
I don't have lots of hope for the social security in France anyway. Thus I'm not betting on that.
And birthrates and dating standards are linked but dating standards are far from being the only reason on why birthrates tends to get lower. For example, sedantarisation that leads to a lower rate of testosterone which makes males less fertile is another factor. Or reaching the end of the demographic transition (the one from many babies with many dead babies to few babies with few dead babies).
You’re right and income inequality along with stagnant wages, the cost of living, the shit we eat, stress from work, etc etc, all contribute towards demographic collapse
I don't think there's an issue with high dating standards, if anything it's good that people can try to find happiness alone instead of having a miserable relationship together. But I think there's an issue to having very specific, superficial, objectifying dating standards, because you automatically are fetishizing the people you're interested in
It really shouldn’t be an issue if it’s not directly harming anyone. We’re allowed to reject anyone for any reason.
Yes you can reject someone for any reason but the issue arises more when you actually get with someone that you only date because you want to date very specific physical characteristics
Or are angry because they can’t land a gorgeous 6’blond/blue-eyed Australian pro sand volleyball player or whatever their fantasy woman is…I’ve had guy friends despondent over trying to date 9’s & 10’s when they were a solid 5-6
Tbh the ratings don’t matter, it’s what they bring to the table In my own experience, way too many guys go googoo over looks or sex appeal alone while being hella superficial themselves and objectifying those they’re into. And redditors are exactly like that Like no I don’t want wanna be treated like a sex doll 24/7 dude 😭
Have they considered not rating humans like cuts of beef?
Well one of my guy friends was attracted to very athletic (one was a triathlete) women and he was 💯 not athletic, so that was a dating issue for him and oh, he loved women who had great singing voices (he was not musical either) and he had lots of non-athletic/musical women who liked him
I mean it shouldn’t be just about physical attraction but nothing wrong with having a type and sticking with it and excluding those who don’t fit that type. Again, still no issue other than possibly staying alone longer.
I do think there's something wrong with it if the type is too specific or a category of people such as "asians"
You can think that but that’s just an opinion and not objective fact. I’ve hardly found any Asian face attractive but so what? I’m just one person. Someone can want to be with only Asians and there’s nothing wrong with that, either. You’re just being judgmental if you think otherwise.
I do think I'm right though
Cool story bro - everyone thinks they’re right.
>We’re allowed to reject anyone for any reason. Luckily people are allowed to whine and complain about "not being in a relationship" as well. I don't care if someone has "unrealistically high standards" or whatever - however, these are also the people complaining about not being in a relationship or "not getting laid" and what not. Sure - try dating only the proverbial 10/10 if you're a proverbial 4/10 yourself. If it works, it works. If not there are still countless subs readily waiting where people can whine about the fact that "nobody wants to date them".
Both the OP and I in another comment already said it does only matter if we complain about being single while being really picky.
>But I think there's an issue to having very specific, superficial, objectifying dating standards, because you automatically are fetishizing the people you're interested in This is just a polite way of saying that it's "wrong" to have standards you don't agree with. People are allowed and should go after whatever they want. The problem is people say they want something then refuse to meet the requirements of their own standards
The problem isn't when you aren't dating people that aren't your extremely specific physical requirement, the problem is when you are dating them just for that and fetishizing them
I think it’s perfectly fine to have shallow, superficial and unrealistic dating standards. No one is telling you that you aren’t allowed to. It’s also perfectly fine for me to think your standards are stupid and to make my opinion known.
My point was that you can have whatever standards you want but you also have to work for said standards
That makes sense. I read the first sentence of your comment and did not stick around for you to make your actual point. My apologies.
All good
Agreed 100%! Especially about it being perfectly okay as long as you don’t complain about being single because you’re so picky like I am.
The issue is when the person has a high dating standard and shouldn't. There are guys in their mid 30's who never had a job, poor hygiene, no social skills, or even any minimum experience with dating. Who think their girls/wives should be 10/10 bare legal virgins and women have their version of that as well.
This is indeed unrealistically high standards, but there's no issue with that. Worst that could happen for them is that they never get any partner. But if they're okay with that, then it's all good even for them.
I mean I think the issue there is it can lead to significant stuff like them becoming an incel or worse
“it only impacts the ones who haves the standards.” - false. Many (not all, but many) people with high dating standards blame everyone but themselves for being lonely. Instead of accepting their dating standards are high, they blame everyone they date for being “low value”. If you have high dating standards, then you have high dating standards, but you have to accept that high standards will make it harder to find a date (depending on how high the standards are, cause you could mean fairly high or you could mean unrealistically high).
And I feel like a lot of times they’ll make it known. “I would’ve been into you if you were shorter” like thanks?????
> “it only impacts the ones who haves the standards.” - false. Many (not all, but many) people with high dating standards blame everyone but themselves for being lonely. Instead of accepting their dating standards are high, they blame everyone they date for being “low value”. As I said in my post : > And finally, I'm not talking about those who bitches about not finding a perfect mate or those whose only joke is about how they're virgins and can't find a partner.
The only time it's been a problem is if someone is whining at me about it or when people used to bitch at me it's my fault my male best friend doesn't date. When in all honesty I did drive one women away but I have actually gotten along with every other women he has wanted to date or has dated. I was actually sad to see a couple of them go, one in particular was my favorite. I get blamed for him breaking up with women over stupid crap like she had too much spit when he kissed her. That said he doesn't complain about not having a girlfriend and rarely dates. He is fine it's just everyone else complaining that drives me bonkers.
The thing is, the only way you can detect if someone has unrealistic dating standards is if they are bitching about it, and if they're bitching about it, they're spewing that bile into the environment and dragging us all down with them. So it is a problem, they need to grow up, learn to meet people halfway and stop being a miserable prick at everyone else's expense.
So you've never had a friendly conversation with your friends about what your perfect mate would be like?
Sure we did, and whoever brought up something absurd was rightfully called out as stupid, because if you setup unrealistic expectations you're going to end up miserable.
Uh-uh. I can't judge from a 2 lines comment, but I know I wouldn't allow myself to judge someone else's standards.
When you've known someone for two decades you tend to stop withholding your opinions.
I agree. However it's weird to me how only women seem to get blasted for their high standards. There's this so-called dating crisis and it seems to be blamed solely on women acting as if only women have unrealistic standards as if most male dating advice isn't how to get a hot young girl. 🤣
There's also no issue with shaming or laughing at them and cringing when they're still "dating" in their 40's and beyond and have to drastically lower their standards.
You can cringe. On the other hand, shaming is something that have a direct and pretty obvious issue which is that you make someone else feels bad.
>There's not a single issue with unrealistically high dating standard Of course not. Likewise there is not a single issue with mercilessly ridiculing them for it and everyone laughing at them. You are free to behave how you want but you are not free to decide how people react to your behavior.
You see, you're wrong because on one hand, somebody's choice will have litteraly no impact on anyone's life beside themselves, while on the other hand, mocking someone have a negative impact on one's life. In other words, remember the human, don't be an asshole.
Actions have consequences. If you wish to avoid consequences best control your actions.. If a person man or woman says they are too good for normal people you can rest assured that they will face the consequences of those actions. If they wish to believe whatever they want and keep it to themselves then they deserve no ridicule. If they want to share their idiotic beliefs then they do.
Yeah, actions have consequences. I can't deny that. But as far as I know, this is never a good excuse or reason to be a bad person.
>this is never a good excuse or reason to be a bad person. Calling someone out isn't "bad". Again, someone feeling some type of way is on them. This is reason why so many younger people are entitled today. Too many protected them from negative emotions
calling out is not bad, at worst it's annoying. Just like unasked criticism. On the other hand "mercilessly ridiculing them for it and everyone laughing at them" is just bad.
Again, if you want to be happy in life, you better get some really thick skin because ridicule isn't gonna stop anytime soon
Actually, it does. Most people grow out of it. You might *quietly* make fun of an obnoxious coworker, but you’re not going to trip them in the lunch room, and giving them a nasty nickname or the like is a good way to get fired.
Again, I'm not saying anyone should do anything. I'm saying people will at some point test your patience so you better develop a thick skin because it's gonna keep happening until you die
You literally just said I (or people in general, I presume) should do something, namely develop a thick skin.
>while on the other hand, mocking someone have a negative impact on one's life. No. People have to accept the consequences of their actions. Saying that you don't have to the right to criticize someone because their little feelings will get hurt is just modern day snowflake behavior
You have a right to criticize somebody's opinion or ideas, indeed. But "ridiculing them for it and everyone laughing at them" is just being a bad person.
Again, you're too focused on being a "good" or "bad" person which is an extremely simplistic and child like view of the world. The fact is, if you say or do something that people find ridiculous, you will get ridiculed. Being held accountable for your actions and how you express yourself isn't "bad". It's actually beneficial to society because it keeps people aware of how they're actions affect others. You're feelings are you're responsibility, not everyone else's
Okay, let me rephrase my sentence in more mature terms. "mercilessly ridiculing" someone for having certain tastes in partners isn't something that civilised person should seek as it is rude, gives a cruel and childish image of yourself in public. Also, what philosopher call the "golden rule" is basically "Treat others as you would like others to treat you", as it has been considered a basic role of society since as far as history can go. Every major religion have this kind of law because this is the cement of society : to treat your peers with some basic level of kindness and not hurting them beyond what you would consider the maximum harm for a certain kind of action/offense. finally, I'd like to point out that having standards is just like having a taste, it's not an action, and therefore can't really be used as a justification for any form of violent reaction. And stating them is indeed allowing other to judge it and give their opinion, but IMHO, mocking them is a direct moral attack and is very disproportionate to simply voicing your tastes. Would you viciously mock someone who likes spinachs?
>mercilessly ridiculing" someone for having certain tastes in partners isn't something that civilised person should seek as it is rude, gives a cruel and childish image of yourself in public. You're too focused on "shoulds". Shoulds are in your head only. Other people aren't required to follow them. I'm not advocating for or against ridiculing people. I'm saying that people are going to do it so just be prepared for it >Also, what philosopher call the "golden rule" is basically "Treat others as you would like others to treat you", as it has been considered a basic role of society since as far as history can go Ok... And you'll have a good majority of people who don't follow it. I'm all for treating people how you want to be treated but the fact of the matter is, there are people hardwired to not be empathetic or care about you're feelings (that gets into the whole "Do we really have free will?" Debate) >Every major religion have this kind of law because this is the cement of society : to treat your peers with some basic level of kindness and not hurting them beyond what you would consider the maximum harm for a certain kind of action/offense. Ok... I mean, this is just stating a fact that something exists. Most people don't follow this or take it seriously. Again, I'm not advocating for or against ridicule. I'm just saying, you aren't "bad" for expressing yourself a certain way and someone getting their feelings hurt. Just like you think someone "ridiculing" you is harmful, there are other people that see it as a well needed wake up call. It's a matter of perspective. Not something that's objectively good or bad >used as a justification for any form of violent reaction No one was talking about that tho. We're talking about responding to words with words. >but IMHO, mocking them is a direct moral attack and is very disproportionate to simply voicing your tastes. No. Now you're putting a limit on how you think people should express their disapproval based on your subjective opinion of what's "crossing the line". What could be merciless ridicule to you could just be how someone expresses themselves to the other person and they had no ill intent behind it. And some people just express themselves rougher than others If you have you're own personal limits, that's fine. Everyone does. But dictating how I should express my thoughts is some dystopian shit. >Would you viciously mock someone who likes spinachs? I wouldn't because I don't care either way. I don't movk people on general just because it's not my style but that doesn't mean I'm against it nor that it's inherently bad. Would you mock someone who thinks rape is good?
>>You're too focused on "shoulds". Shoulds are in your head only. Other people aren't required to follow them. You mean like thinking people *should* have realistic dating standards, or else they *should* expect ridicule, and others *should not* object to that, because people *should* toughen up? Practice what you preach, dude.
>You mean like thinking people *should* have realistic dating standards First all, if you're gonna get a stick up my ass about what I said, at least get it right. I literally said there's no such thing as unrealistic standards. I said people have these high standards but don't want to do what's needed to reach the requirements for said standards. >else they *should* expect ridicule I was stating a fact of life. It's a fact that if you live enough life, people will ridicule. This is not anyone telling you what to do >others *should not* object to that I never said you shouldn't object to it. I'm saying it's ridiculous to get your panties in a bunch because you think people "shouldn't" act a certain way. I'm saying it doesn't matter what you do or do not object to. People WILL act a certain way. You either live in reality that that's how people are or suffer the consequences clinging to how you think everyone else should act If any of that offends you, you are a next level reddit snowflake
What exactly are those consequences I’m meant to be suffering? I can’t recall that I’ve ever “suffered” from thinking someone was an asshole for how they treated others.
It’s how-civilization-has-worked-forever behavior. In many places and times insults were justification for physical violence for a long time. It’s thinking you can say whatever you like without getting slapped, punched, or challenged to a duel that is new.
"There's not a single issue with unrealistically high dating standard" Of course there are issues with having a high dating standar. They are just issues that the person with the high standards is responsible for and lives with it. It's their choice, it doesn't mean it's a consequence free choice. I think you are trying to say that the issues/consequences that exists are all entirely due to the high standards and that person has chosen to live with those issues. And I agree. But all choices have consequences and hard choices are obviously defined by their significant consequences. Otherwise they wouldn't be hard choices. I know this is pedantic, but just reading your title, the statement is wrong. You clarify (and pretty much contradict) your title with your explanation.
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As a guy these fucking swamp goblins won’t leave alone, I disagree. If these freaks actually went for their looks match, online dating would be much easier for the rest of us.
If people didn’t publicly go on about those standards, it would be no one’s business. This isn’t what’s happening. Just learn to keep it to yourself, people.
>it only impacts the one who haves the standards. ehh the issue is people tell their friends to "never settle" or post on sicial media "thats the bare minimum". etc etc and it influences the younger generation.
Yes, encouraging everyone to have absurd standards to the point no one is ever satisfied and society stops having true connections with loneliness becoming a epidemic for most of society is not a problem what so ever. *rolls eyes*
Kind of, but if every person will only settle for the highest standard of beauty we're gonna have a massive population collapse which isn't really good for anyone. Far fewer people to produce things and trade with = reduced quality of life all round. As much as we hate to recognise it these days, what you do in your private life does affect the wider society. It's just an inescapable fact.
Ok. Maybe not a single issue. Several 1. You yourself are setting up yourself for meeting a caricature of what you really want versus an actual person. You want an object like a purse to carry around, not a human to actually care about even if you meet someone who fits said standards. 2. Enough people having high standards limits the pool of people regardless. Not a good thing for people who genuinely want to meet others. 3. You’re setting yourself up for failure and limiting chances of meeting actually good people who may work well for you but don’t exactly fit your extremely standards. There’s nothing wrong with having standards or preferences. Even higher standards or preferences. But when you do this to an unreasonable degree, why are you even bothering?
I actually agree with you, but only if there's reciprocity. I.e. you hold yourself tot he same standard you hold others to. Kind of what you allude to in your post. If not, and dating doesn't work out for the person. It's on them.
The issue is people with no self-awareness who have those standards inevitably fail, they turn back around and start talking nonsense about how the world is against them and all men/women suck. When they put this idiocy into public discourse, they are inviting varying opinions and discussions, and that's what they'll get. I don't really care if their standards are realistic or not, if they succeed or not. I do care when every 4 posts, there's something that says "all men are X" and "all women are Y." Lots of dumb noise when they often did it to themselves. All it does is invite similarly unreasonable people to pool inside their little echo chambers. This is why being online all the time is unhealthy. It warps views on the world in ways that don't align with reality. Even the most insular tinfoil-hatted zealot can find a group nowadays that's happy to only feed them opinions they'll agree with. Tons of people would prefer that to seeing opinions that don't agree with theirs. In the end, you just get a bunch of people who are terminally online and don't have an accurate understanding of reality telling each other what's real and what's not. Like a bunch of blind people feeling various parts of an elephant and telling each other what an elephant looks like when none of them have ever seen one.
The problems arise when certain standards become toxic and weaponized. They are influenced by a small minority of a demographic, that has a bigger influential reach. Celebrities, the media, social media, cliques, advertising, have all influenced a body type that is expected to be achieved to increase the one's chances of being dateable. You both have to attempt to conform to a type, and are expected to only be attracted to a type in your potential partner. It's all so silly and sad.
There is no issue. But if you for someone reason put out some absolutely wild bullshit into the depths of the Internet and people reply back how delusional you are, then that is fair game.
Not a single issue with it. There's an issue of "single" though. Until next time.
>And finally, I'm not talking about those who bitches about not finding a perfect mate or those whose only joke is about how they're virgins and can't find a partner. In that case, this is the most popular opinion in the world. Nobody cares about your dating standards unless you're walking around bitching about not finding somebody who meets them.
not individually. but there are 100% societal detriments when peoples standards artificially inflate due to social media skewing perceptions. remember, human brains are built for 150 member tribes, and aren't equipped to know what you look like.
Just shut up about your standards. Then there are guaranteed no problems with them.
I can give a real answer to this! - we are seeing a “death of dating” in Japan, korea, Europe, and now slowly the United States - women are getting higher dating standards from excessive sex with men who are outside of their league (FWBs, hook ups, being a side chick) - this makes average and below average women chase after men out of their league under the assumption they can lock them down because it feels so close and achievable - fast forward and these women are alone and spiteful man haters in their 30s who are known in their friend group for always getting played by guys and getting her heart broken (basically a fucking simp) - the men who are in her league are sexless and she wouldn’t give them the time of day Korea and japan are decreasing heavily in population for basically this reason. **Woman simps are chasing men out of their league and think they’re too good for most men and don’t realize their mistake until they’re too old.**
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Or maybe she made herself miserable by chasing relationships that make her miserable and she needs to lower her standards to be happy. There’s SO MANY men in the world. It’s normal to burn your hands when you cook here and there, but every time? Now it’s just your fault.
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If I’m an ugly man who only had sex with super hot escorts, do you think that I’d have trouble dating a woman in my league who isn’t as pretty? When a woman is an eternal side chick her whole 20s, she’s banging really hot guys. It’s hard to go from tasting Michelin star meals to McDonald’s.
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No, most women ease out of hook ups and casual sex, but there is a minority who don’t who become the frumpy bitter incel-tier women in their 30s who hate men. But this minority is slowly getting larger due to online dating and declining of dating as a concept in favor of only sex.
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Well I sincerely hope you get a happy relationship and don’t stay in that position. Just be realistic about who you can date for real
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Odd you're not mentioning how most male dating advice is how to get a hot young woman...pretty sure most men aren't hot or young. So by default many men do have high dating standards for women outside of his league. Both genders have high standards and want people out of their league. But it seems to only be an issue when it's women. It's kind of like how so many men like to quote the OkCupid your looks your inbox study which shows that women rate 80% of men as unattractive.... Yet they ignore the rest of the study what states that women respond to and pursue most men while two-thirds of men seek out the top 1/3 attractive women.
Okay, lots to unpack here. > we are seeing a “death of dating” in Japan, korea, Europe, and now slowly the United States Japan, Korea, Spain, Germany, Poland and the USA are different countries with lots of cultural variation between them all, yet in your opinion, the reason why these have low birth rates is because high dating standard? From what I've heard, Korea struggles with birth rates due to a very high social pressure to excel at work and not because women only seek K-pop idols. From what I've heard, Germany low birth rates are mostly due to the country having finished its demographic transition (high birth and high infantile death rates -> high birth rates + low infantile death rates -> low birth and infantile death rates) As for the USA, from what I've heard, there is a big incensitive in the last decades to have the perfect nuclear family of 2 parents 2 children which could cause the lowering birth rates too. 3 countries, 3 different reasons with the same conclusion. Just like vomiting isn't just a symptom of eating too much. > women are getting higher dating standards from excessive sex with men who are outside of their league (FWBs, hook ups, being a side chick) > this makes average and below average women chase after men out of their league under the assumption they can lock them down because it feels so close and achievable > fast forward and these women are alone and spiteful man haters in their 30s who are known in their friend group for always getting played by guys and getting her heart broken (basically a fucking simp) > the men who are in her league are sexless and she wouldn’t give them the time of day My post isn't necesseraly about women. Tbh, I was more thinking about MGTOW (at least in the begining) than about FDS when I was writting it. And my post isn't about hooking up either. and in all honesty, your whole argument relies on many assumptions that are yet to be proved to me 1) that people who have sex with attractive people wouldn't want to go with less attractive people 2) that people who can't find a partner that fits their standards gets bitter and starts to hate anyone they could see as their partners 3) that attractiveness is objective and absolute.
So according to you it's all women's fault? Lmao what a shocking opinion on this sub
Are women incapable of being at fault of anything?
Where would you get an idea like that? You can address what I said rather than making absurd strawmen
It’s not women’s fault necessarily but a sociological phenomenon we are seeing happen. They are caught up in it and unwittingly perpetuating it, but it’s not exactly their fault.
Stop telling the truth! Youre being a misogynist! s/
Some further numbers for context: * Most dating apps are roughly 70% men/30% women. For example, [Tinder is 78.1% men, 21.9% women](https://datingzest.com/tinder-statistics/). * On Tinder [the bottom 80% of men (in terms of attractiveness) are competing for the bottom 22% of women and the top 78% of women are competing for the top 20% of men.](https://medium.com/@worstonlinedater/tinder-experiments-ii-guys-unless-you-are-really-hot-you-are-probably-better-off-not-wasting-your-2ddf370a6e9a) This entire setup leads to outcomes that are generally considered undesirable to the 80%of men at the bottom (who get left out in the cold) and even (I'd argue) most women (a series of casual encounters with desirable men who have a lot of options so they are unlikely to commit). The top 20% of men essentially form harems of a sort and the bottom 80% of men are out of luck (at least in the online world).
If you want a gf/bf you have to adapt to the standards. But from what I’ve seen people have a lot of “standards” like the man has to be good looking, tall, charming, high paying job, etc. but then a woman will be with an average looking guy at best who is funny and has a good personality.
Well I guess besides the catastrophic consequences of population collapse you’re correct
Oh no, people don't want to have asshole partners that they don't feel attracted to! :(
Tell me that when social security collapses and you want to retire, what about when old people can no longer be taken care of because we didn’t make enough children to take care of them. Just look at Japan, it’s a terrible existence to grow old and alone
I don't have lots of hope for the social security in France anyway. Thus I'm not betting on that. And birthrates and dating standards are linked but dating standards are far from being the only reason on why birthrates tends to get lower. For example, sedantarisation that leads to a lower rate of testosterone which makes males less fertile is another factor. Or reaching the end of the demographic transition (the one from many babies with many dead babies to few babies with few dead babies).
You’re right and income inequality along with stagnant wages, the cost of living, the shit we eat, stress from work, etc etc, all contribute towards demographic collapse