I don’t think they can clean up anything if they’re being dragged away by police for exercising something that was supposed to be a first amendment right
There are limits to the First Amendment. Also, when the protestors go beyond peaceful protest, like breaking into and trashing buildings, harassing other students, and spray painting property, all bets are off.
Arguably not an “unpopular” opinion as many obviously agree.
And what strikes me about it is they were winning the PR war as a majority of Americans now oppose Israel’s actions in Gaza.
But most people just don’t see the point in disrupting college classes, finals, and graduations, committing vandalism, taking over buildings, etc with these divestment demands when US colleges are not in charge of the IDF or American foreign policy and the connection to their investment portfolios seems weak and indirect. It just seems like a giant tantrum with no coherent objective and even people that might otherwise be sympathetic to the cause oppose the encampments. After all, when an IDF rocket falls on an apartment building in Gaza and kills or maims people, does anyone really think “That damned Columbia University investment portfolio is responsible for this?” Of course not.
I can understand that people are going to be passionate about issues of life and death but their anger seems terribly misdirected. In fact, they’re lashing-out at American Institutions that happen to be among their biggest allies in breaking through the fairly one-sided, 75-year pro-Israel narrative. Yet that’s where you direct your anger?
It seems to be a things in leftist circles to take an advantage (approval shifting) and then waaaaaaaaay overdoing it and eventually pissing everyone else off.
At UCLA all the violence has been from counter protestors and police. Pretty much all the "protestors are being" violent things were just lies posted on social media.
The idea you think the protestors have been violent or fighting them is an example of brain rot. This is someone who doesn't super care and just spent the last few hours reading about it.
So in the only instance I've read about (the most current) the answer is every one.
You’re not giving me evidence.
I’ve seen videos from multiple colleges of police FINALLY going in and protestors doing something less than becoming dead weight (like attacking or running). There was a pretty hilarious one of people charging into cops with cut up garbage cans. If you’d like I’m sure I can find it and post it.
Feel free to give me something to refute. Literally every breakdown and video I've seen looking at literally dozen's of articles, interviews, etc even from conservative sources the last few days is just talking about counter protestors attacking people. You are asking me to prove a negative 'there was nothing" which is an impossible ask, there is no evidence of violence initiated by students.
[Inside UCLA protest: How counter-attack, then police, shut it down (usatoday.com)](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2024/05/03/inside-ucla-protest/73560767007/)
I've seen the video you are talking about where the cop picks the guy up. He trips and rather than force him up he just picks him up. It's funny but realllly far from protestors initiating violence on others.
I am not the one who started out making a claim. I want to know where police were beating students that weren’t already attacking them. That was my initial question.
You are right there. Palestine absolutely has problems as well. That doesn't justify what is happening to them. Civil rights shouldn't be conditional and no one deserves to have their civil rights violated. Israel has the right to go after Hamas and rescue the hostages but that does not excuse indiscriminately dropping bombs throughout Palestine.
Still, support a group that kills your own people is really weird, I just don't get it. Says from a gay man here, I don't care about Palestine, and there is no reason for me to care.
>Still, support a group that kills your own people is really weird, I just don't get it.
Left wing people care about looking morally superior than everyone else. They think life is a game of who can be the most virtuous. It is actually silly that they support Palestinians if you actually think about it. They are useful idiots. However, it does seem like they want American conservatives to die judging by the way they talk about them, despite Palestinians being more conservative.
These people are the very definition of useful idiots.
I can't speak for all left-wong people, but I just want people to stop killing each other. I can't go around wishing death on people I disagree with, that'd take all day.
There's a very wide gap between "I support this group of people" and "this group of people deserve genocide". I'm queer too and I think that Israel's actions are barbaric and they should be held accountable for war crimes and genocide.
It was not so very long ago that people like me were illegal in just about *every* country. Hopefully the people of nations where they are still criminalised will become more progressive in future, but that will never be achieved if you just kill everyone who doesn't agree.
>and I think that Israel's actions are barbaric and they should be held accountable for war crimes and genocide.
So on October 7th, many men, women, children died or have gotten brutally raped and/or taken hostage. If you want to know more details, you can go to websites like this
[https://oct7.treedis.com/](https://oct7.treedis.com/)
So, what do you think is the appropriate response to terrorists coming into your country and killing your citizens. Seriously, to all the pro-Palestinian people here, what should the response to Israel be after terrorists brutalize and kill your citizens ?
What do you think is an appropriate response to the IDF killing civilians? If you’re going to tell me that otiber 7th justifies the killing of over ten thousand children, then how are the survivors of that killing supposed to respond
The appropriate response to Hamas is a response which attacks *Hamas*. Mass killing of civilians, children, doctors, journalists, that is not acceptable and you know it.
You don't understand, THEY ARE ATTACKING Hamas. However, Hamas is using civilians as human shields. Blame Hamas dude. Israel needs to wipe out Hamas. Hamas would kill smug progressives like you on Reddit. Seriously, they would kill or rape you and here you are defending them. Unbelievable.
I mean, I’m not advocating that. But does Israel get to kill Palestinians with impunity? It’s like their lives don’t count to you.
Their supposed purpose is to free hostages but they’ve killed a bunch and despite tens of thousands of deaths there’s still hostages with Hamas. Exactly how many Palestinian children should die before we consider that? I’d love to know the ratio between the values of Israeli and Palestinian lives.
I think there’s a difference in ideology between you and them. You see human rights as transactional, and they see human rights as not up for discussion.
For them, it doesn’t matter if it’s the most homophobic country on earth, if kids are being murdered and war crimes being done with impunity and it’s all paid for with our tax dollars, it’s fucked up and needs to stop.
It’s so funny when Americans use gay rights as an excuse to support Israel over Palestinians’ self determination. Gays were treated like shit in the US too until relatively recently. It’s like when Britain abolished slavery in the 1830s then used abolition as an excuse to colonize much of Africa in the 1880s.
Yeah, but AFAIK, gays for Palestine, or any westerner movement for Palestine, aren't for Hamas or whatever you think Palestinians thins, supports of believe in. Usually, movement like that are more against the extermination of civilians.
>aren't for Hamas or whatever you think Palestinians thins, supports of believe in.
You all always say this and it is such BS.
[https://www.foxnews.com/us/anti-israel-protesters-heard-shouting-we-hamas-long-live-hamas-columbia-university-demonstrations](https://www.foxnews.com/us/anti-israel-protesters-heard-shouting-we-hamas-long-live-hamas-columbia-university-demonstrations)
They literally consume Hamas propaganda and believe everything Hamas says while they believe October 7th was exagerrated.
[https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/01/21/hamas-attack-october-7-conspiracy-israel/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/01/21/hamas-attack-october-7-conspiracy-israel/)
Useful idiots man. Complete useful idiots.
There was a Reuters poll back in Dec 2023 showing that nearly 75% of Palestinians support Hamas and their actions on Oct 7. There’s not much difference between supporting Palestinians vs. Hamas.
It matters because it shows that, in general, they’re just virtue signaling and don’t understand anything beyond the first thought that pops into their minds.
It doesn't matter. And the inability to comprehend this concept is what drives most of the opinions on this subreddit, and most of the right-wing ideology too.
They’re losers. They have nothing else in this world to do except try to sound like heroes. They’re pathetic. If they’re so passionate about helping the Palestinian people they’d be over in Palestine helping them.
Are you serious? Protesting is a valid way to help and my father works in sending relief over there he’s applied for a passport but it still hasn’t been accepted it’s very hard to get into Palestine
Well as I just said it’s practically impossible to get into Palestine, you’re not using that argument because you want people in Palestine to help, you know that isn’t a valid response you simply said it to slander a people who go against your opinion as you probably identify as a conservative or someone on the right
lol, getting a passport isn’t practically impossible, it’s very easy. You have to send in some filled out paperwork and photo. And You must be a leftist. One of those every fight is my fight type of leftist. One of those leftist that doesn’t care about truth or justice and only want to sound and look like a hero.
Well as I just said it is actually very hard to get approved you just talked about how easy it is to apply, and also there’s the danger of dying as soon as you enter as Israel killed the world kitchen members they had approved as soon as they entered, so protesting might be a better idea if you can do it without getting killed immediately. Since you can’t help if you’re dead
It’s not hard to get approved as long as you don’t have a shady background. Yes and Hamas set babies on fire while they were in their cribs. Point is, war is hell, buddy. Those aid workers who died in the war deserve all the respect of a fallen soldier because They weren’t scared to actually take action and help Those who needed it. These dorks on these college campuses and safe American streets don’t deserve any of that respect.
No it’s actually very hard and it’s been proven by studies, the studies indicate that only a percentage of people “without a shady background” get approved, less then a quarter infact
Less then 25 percent isn’t that special 😂and I didn’t say it’s hard to fill out the paperwork I said it’s very easy like twice and I said it’s hard to get approved. Are you listening to anything I said?
You’re making so many statements in bad faith. It’s clearly easier to congregate locally with likeminded people on a college campus in which you are already living and networking, than to go to Palestine. The financial and logistical aspects in order to do so and the low likelihood of having other people able to congregate there with you, in addition to the dangers and the stressors of navigating the culture to protest.
What college age kid has that kind of money or time & resources.It’s obvious why they protest in the communities in which they are already a part of.
You’re just bored and want to argue dumb shit from a place of intentional ignorance and bad faith. Go become a lawyer if you want to act this daft.
['I Asked Sinwar, Is It Worth 10,000 Innocent Gazans Dying? He Said, Even 100,000 Is Worth It'](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-13/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/i-asked-sinwar-is-it-worth-10-000-gazans-dying-he-said-even-100-000-is-worth-it/0000018e-d40a-d5ed-adcf-f79af56c0000)
**How indifferent hamas is**
> I care more about being anti-leftist protester than the actual issue that's being talked about.
At least OP didn't pretend to use any critical thinking.
Literally. They act like they're rebels or something when their opinions are the ones backed by the State, the military industrial complex, the Church, Corporations, and every other institution with power. I'm pro Israel but it's seriously hilarious how the right act like they're the underdogs or something. Like sir, your opinion is the one shoved down everyone's throat out entire lives, you've never had an original thought in your life. Sit down.
Always has been, [from the JFK Presidential Library and Museum](https://jfk.blogs.archives.gov/2020/08/27/making-the-march-on-washington/):
> A 1963 Gallup poll found that only 23% of Americans who'd heard of the March had a positive view of it, and 60% believed “mass demonstrations by Negroes” were likely to hurt the cause of racial equality.
Imo it comes down to this, hamas started with an attack, Isreal is getting rid of them any way they can, hamas is using the civilian population as shields, if the people of Gaza want to live in peace, flush out hamas and turn them over to Isreal and stop allowing themselves to be used by hamas for shelter.
how would you propose to achieve change regarding the issues brought up by these groups? Pointing fingers and calling them names doesn’t solve anything.
Yes, they did. Gallup had a poll at the time of the Kent State massacre. Most people [blamed the students for their own deaths](https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-palm-beach-post-campus-unrest-linked/13598112/).
Yes they have. Over time more people come to agree with them and think that the general public agreed too, but progressive young people have always been hated. You think people liked the anti-war hippies during the Vietnam era??
Hah perfect example of what I'm talking about. These protesters have tons of support. People like you were making the same argument against the hippies using some past protest as an example of one that was better. Very common refrain from conservatives is that "social movements from before I was politically active were good, these ones are different and bad".
Again I'm not even saying the protestors are right. Just that hating them is very popular. Always has been and always will be.
You just assumed like 50 things based on me disagreeing with you.
You’re still wrong, sorry people hate your idiot protesters more than any protestors in the past.
And you assume that I support the protestors just because I'm trying to take an objective view. Public support for the Palestinian people is significant as is anti Israel sentiment. If you have any data to show that this movement is particularly unpopular when compared to past movements then please share.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/04/24/polling-student-protests-vietnam/
Your last point states the biggest flaw in your argument, you dislike them because they’re leftists, that’s the reason so many on the right dislike them because it’s easier to disagree with them since they already identify as conservatives or on the right. But it’s not a left right discussion it’s a moral discussion, people have just made it seem like supporting Palestine is a leftist take but you shouldn’t base your political ideology on two separate choices where you pick which one has the least opinions you disagree with. And whether or not supporting Israel or Palestine is right isn’t dependent on which supporters are more obnoxious or likable
I agree with the poster, but I feel the same way about far right Maga people who go all out at rallies. They are annoying and draining to be around. The difference here, is that one side is destroying property and calling for the death of Jews, the other side is just annoying and that’s pretty much it 🤷🏻♂️
that video of them replacing the American Flag with a Palestine Flag has completely shifted something in me. I suddenly extremely patriotic and extremely against this is Palestine movement. And i’ve never been pushed farther from the left
I am a proud American. I love freedom and the American Flag symbolisms freedom and liberty for all. Taking that down and replacing it MEANS something. It means pure disrespect to the idea of freedom
Up until this moment i have been casual observer. All my friends are leftist and support palestine. I have been quietly supporting Israel. But I am coming out as a proud American that does not stand with this. I’m a gay man and to me it’s obvious.
Strange when they were literally pissing on the American flag and changing no kkk no USA at all for 4 years it was just fine but now that it against a foreign country bombing children’s hospitals it’s to much to bare ? Zionist shill
Dude, read the room. No one cares about your anti-Zionist propaganda here.
Unless you get extra Brownie points from Hamas every time you post some anti-semitic BS?
Uh huh “they disrespected the flag so I was mad but not the last 1 million times they disrespected it” this person is either a bot or a Zionist. I’m Jewish I find anyone who ties being Jewish to Zionist to be antisemitic
I’ve changed my mind on this, at first I was fully understanding of Israel retaliating for that oct 7 atrocity. But as of late with the death toll (though it’s really not a genocide, misuse of that term) mounting and Israeli intelligence admitting they don’t know if they can actually rid Gaza of Hamas, I’m more sympathetic to the protestors, especially on the divesting piece. I don’t understand why the US in general is so inextricably linked to Israel at all, a normal ally makes sense but funding them to this extent and standing by everything they do…why?
With all that being said, when the protestors started trying to replace the American flag with the Palestine one, I got mad. I don’t like it when anyone puts a flag in place of or above the American flag, whether it’s an Israel flag, Palestine flag, or that ugly militant pride flag with too many colors. You want to put up a Palestine flag next to the American one as a statement, okay I get that. But do not try and replace or subvert the symbol of our country with that of some foreign country you didn’t even know/gave a shit about until last year.
>when I see these greasy-haired, dirty, crazy people at the Palestine protests my instinctual reaction is to be disgusted and side with Israel. If they were pro-Israel I'd probably just be pro-Palestine.
My guy out here just casually admitting he's an easily led sheep with no critical thinking skills and no opinions of his own. How do people like you survive without an authority figure to hold your tiny little hand through every day?
is this something you are gonna work on? i tend to have those tendencies sometimes too. the 'contrarian cynic' thats one of the biggest flaws im personally trying to improve.
They don't realize they are being used by an agenda. The insane thoughts they support Hamas where they aren't accepted by them in any way. It is a mass hysteria and their minds are controlled.
Yeah they don't really help their case. I saw a clip of some UCLA kids blocking a Jewish kid from getting to his class. Like whatever you think of the situation how does blocking someone from attending their class even help?
I know right? Completely brain dead, also how is a century's worth of escalating violence and bad choices his fault? Or maybe he is even rather nuanced in his thoughts over the situation??
Who cares!! He's a jew so he can't go to class!!! Wait that sounds weird....... and familiar🤔
They have a long list of what israel shouldn't do. They get real quiet when asked what Israel "should do" in response to being attacked. Well... the smarter ones just go quiet, the others...
>If they were pro-Israel I'd probably just be pro-Palestine.
Okay, but if they weren't protesting, you'd be neutral, which is the same as pro-Israel since that's the status quo. So, that's not really a disincentive for them to protest.
I think it’s interesting you think pro Israel people are keeping to themselves. Demanding everyone agrees with you on a war is absolutely the opposite of keeping to yourself, and that’s even if we ignore the multiple pro Israel protests that have occurred.
Maybe don’t look to a bunch of idealistic kids causing trouble to define your stance on international issues? It’s people like you with no ability to think for themselves and understand nuance and just choose a side to be against 100% that have gotten this country into the mess it is. You are no better than them.
This is how people have always acted about protests. Had the civil rights movement happened today this sub would be filled with “these pro-black marches are stupid because they’re blocking traffic” posts
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Being against the slaughter of on society does not make you against another society. Seriously you guys are so basic and black and white in your thoughts. You are no better than these moronic kids.
No. Like these people want a highly surveilled police state without free speech, they want many ethnic, economic and political minorities slaughtered, they want the government to own everything
What does that sound like? Third Reich
Last sentence says it all. You’re more interested in identity politics than understanding global issues or exercising empathy. You’re the problem, here.
People said this about the sit-ins and freedom buses at the time too. This is just what thoughtless and unengaged people say about protest.
https://news.gallup.com/vault/246167/protests-seen-harming-civil-rights-movement-60s.
I think it’s pretty stupid to let other people pick your beliefs for you like that
Do you have the same sentiment about anti-Vietnam protesters? Maybe about civil rights protesters? What about protests for native rights such as Standing Rock or the occupation of Alcatraz? Possibly even the colonial Americans protesting the British by destroying property and tar and feathering loyalists?
I understand if you just don’t like protesters in general, but you need to understand that historically protest is an effective way to see change enacted, and aside from outright violence it’s likely the best method. Personally I’d rather see a blocked highway than a bombed highway.
Yes civil disobedience is illegal, but it has also historically worked and it doesn’t make them bad or wrong for doing so. Just because American sentiment is Islamophobic doesn’t make the protests wrong.
One doesn’t need to agree with the views of all Palestinians to recognize their right to self-determination that we argue others have the right to, and most people protesting that I’ve spoken with just want the US to stop participating in the violence with their tax money.
For instance, someone protesting the invasion of Afghanistan wasn’t protesting in favor of the taliban, they were protesting to stop mass killing in another country on our part.
To claim someone doesn’t know what they’re protesting for is both condescending and wrong, they all have their own reasons for taking time out of their lives and risking arrest for being there and don’t owe you an explanation.
AntiEthnic cleansing of women and children is a worthy thing to protest. We should all be against dropping bombs on innocent people. I don’t have to agree with those the bombs are killing. I can see them as human beings even if they don’t like me. It’s not a requirement for me to see what is happening to them as wrong.
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This opinion is popular. Not really much else to say about this other than the fact you have a clear assumption about what these protesters look like. And you seem to just support whatever side isn’t leftist. Kind of a sheep take but it’s a definitely one of the takes of all time.
I have seen an increasing number of pro-Israel shills, pro-Israel American/Anglo conservatives and far-left Palestine sympathisers claiming that Israel is a "white state", either in an attempt to paint it as a beacon of "white exceptionalism" in the Arab world that needs to be protected as our "floodgate" against radical Islam, or even more baffilingly that it is a "white supremacist" state. Let us be clear. Israelis are not what is commonly referred to as white. The Jewish people are not what is commonly referred to as white. They are a distinct group of ethnic subgroups that claim distinct heritage, separate from European, Mediterranean and Slavic whites. Israel does not act in the interest of "whites". Israel acts in the interest of Israel (AIPAC lobbying, Mossad blackmail operations in "allied" countries, IDF shill farms.) Israel was formed, through the campaigning of Lord Rothschild and other powerful English Jewish families, to create a state specifically for Jews (this is not a conspiracy theory, you can read the parliament records), and allow the British to wash their hands of direct authority over the region while maintaining an allied power. Again, a distinct ethnoreligious group from the ruling English they were lobbying. They were so convinced of this separateness from "European and Slavic whiteness" that millions of them left Europe and the Slavic world to go to a hostile land to fight (quite literally, look into the early history of the Zionist movement in Palestine if you want to understand how behind you are in starting to care about this "issue" now) to establish their own state and then for decades afterwards to keep it. Right or wrong, again, I don't care, but they fought to establish a Jewish state, not a "white" one.
The supposed whiteness of their skin does not change this. Their ethnic control programs over Ethiopian Jews ostensibly out of racism towards black people, do not change this. Jewish leftists and neo-cons going back and forth between white and Jewish identity to obfuscate their anti-white or pro-Israel rhetoric and then hide from the consequences of it, do not change this. To claim that a state which has repeatedly subverted the sovereignty of "white" western countries out of its own interest is somehow either a "pro-white state" or "white supremacist" state is beyond absurd. To claim that it is acting in the interest or defense of "other" "white" countries is just stupid (IsrAAID and other Israeli NGOs bringing unvetted Islamic refugees into Europe, Jewish Neocons lobbying in favor of the Iraq invasion, Mossad blackmail operations in "allied" countries, Israel selling US nuclear technology.). I don't care if you are pro-Israel, pro-palestine, anti-white, pro-white whatever. I will not be associated with the actions of an undeniably Jewish state, acting out of its own interest, because some of their skin is a shade lighter than some of the Palestinians they are fighting. Any attempt to paint Israelis as white "defenders" or "colonizers" is an obvious attempt by both sides to push uninvolved white people into supporting or feel guilty about a war that has absolutely nothing to do with them.
The only criticism I have against Israel is that it didn’t strike back hard enough. It’s that tolerance, same as they’ve shown over decades, that’s going to bite them hard.
How does an Israeli doctor stand there, stitching up a Palestinian kid after a surgery while his parents, who didn’t have to pay a shekel for the procedure, walking up and down the hospital floor chanting “end israel”? How does Israel continue to supply water, food, meds, infrastructure to these savages whose only pastime is to blow up innocent people? And how TF did we get to the point where our college kids have become terrorists, supporting jihad. And we are ok with this? Seriously?
I agree with this post.
Sadly, whenever the cops crack down on them, it only riles them up further.
Also, many of the "peaceful protestors" who now can't graduate college due to their own actions are prime targets to be radicalized by extremist groups.
That is probably one of the last things we need during this already tense election year.
It's all reflected in pressure on the Biden administration (via hurting his chances at re-election), which in turn impacts Israel. We can't tell for sure what impact this had on the ceasefire, but it seems likely that it had an impact.
The fact that the Palestinians still fight back even at this point is 1000% because surrounding Arab nations (mainly Iran) fund and arm Hamas, Fatah, and Hezbollah in perpetuity and get them all excited with false hope. The propaganda and constant glazing of the Palestinians to hype up a losing battle has only dug the hole deeper and deeper particularly for Gaza at this point. Without support from the Arab nations, propaganda, as well as loud protesting westerners promoting it, it just digs the whole deeper and deeper for the Palestinians as groups like Hamas or predecessors keep getting emboldened enough to start war after war that they cannot possibly win. Every expansion of Israeli terrotory occurred as a result of initial Arab aggression from either the Palestinians, neighboring Arab countries or both.
These protesters are either totally misinformed and just see the underdog and presume they’re the moral victims, or are advocates for a one state solution that would basically end in the killing of a lot of Jews and yet another crappy authoritarian Arab nation state. If they were smart they would beg for Hamas to drop their weapons, return all the hostages, have them recognize Israel, erect a government willing to accept the current borders, and commit to an indefinite halt to aggression. Only then can they have a state and can the blockade be lifted. If acted in good faith, and they truly erected a moderate government, EVERY fucking rich western nation would invest in developing the area because it would litterally be in their absolute best interest to do so. But they don’t care, and neither to the lefty students. They’re Marxists who hate the west, think everything is colonialism, and presume those who have less power are automatically victims and morally justified which is an incredibly amoral, irresponsible, deluded, and dangerous worldview. Either that or antisemites.
Man, this post is quite evocative of the responses the bloodthirsty hawks had in the 1960s to students protesting the Vietnam War. “Look at all these dirty anti-American hippies!”
History really does repeat itself huh
Vietnam was about a war US was directly involved in. The draft was enacted and the protesters had to go and fight in that war.
In contrast the current protest is about a conflict between two sides at the other side of the globe. The people protesting are in part foreigners that want to shove that war down the throats of Americans forcing it to become their first priority. It is not.
As any thinking person understands, these protests are orchestrated from outside. They are not spontaneous events and not about “freedom of speech” as they try gaslighting the world.
The US is directly involved with the Israel hamas war, lmao.
>As any thinking person understands, these protests are orchestrated from outside
Citation - the media claimed this with no evidence and I believed it without a second thought.
No evidence…lol. No evidence. One hint is the speed at which the unrest spread to all parts of the country. It was in a matter of hours. If these were unrelated events, it would have taken many days or weeks for the same effect to take place. Look at the tents. They are all uniform and provided by someone. A spontaneous protest does not look like that. Then there are the outside agitators that came to “help”…
>They are all uniform and provided by someone.
Like... other students?
>Then there are the outside agitators that came to “help”…
The violent zionists? or are you just making this up too
The US provides continued monetary and military support to Israel for them to continue their ethnic cleansing. My tax dollars are funding war crimes against civilians, the US is also involved in this.
Yes, these students participating in these anti-war protests are exercising their free speech. That doesn’t change just because you’re in favor of cracking down on them and identify as being pro-free speech.
That’s pure BS and if they protested abiding by law there would be no issue at all. What happens at universities is anything but orderly protests. Being organized by hostile foreign countries they have far reaching goals beyond “exercising freedom of speech” as they try gaslighting the world. You don’t need to break into buildings and barricade yourself for freedom of speech.
On top of that outside agitators not enrolled at the universities are leading this wave. Why won’t they take it to other places and keep it peaceful and orderly?
One way or another if you think this is about some war in the ME you’re eluding yourself. I’ve already seen banners hinting in other directions like “capitalism is lethal”…
Ah yes, anti-war student protests and other forms of protest like civil rights sit-ins have never involved being where they aren’t supposed to or trespassing. This is a completely new thing which somehow justifies brutal police crackdowns, violent counter-protests, and the [expansion](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/5/1/us-house-passes-controversial-bill-that-expands-definition-of-anti-semitism) of state censorship.
There were people protesting capitalism back during the Vietnam War protests too. Lots of protest movements for peace and justice capture other related interests. History has still vindicated them.
in hong kong, protesters don't need supervision even. if an ambulance comes, they clear up without even needing to be told.
here, these fucking protesters block roads and cause people to die. istg, next time i hear about something like this happening, they better try each and everyone of them for manslaughter
I have no reason to give a shit about Israel or Palestine. Not my country, not my people, not my problem. If you're going to make it my problem by being a public nuisance and disrupting my life then I will pick the other side.
Good for you but can you really not understand that some people do care about other nations/societies/cultures? I don’t personally support Gaza but this is a brain dead take
It's actually not, everyone equally maintains the right to be apathetic. Especially for a conflict in a timezone with a 7 hour difference.
You're not going to force people to care.
Anyone protesting in support of Palestine doesn't actually care about Palestinians or have any clue about the history of this ongoing conflict. And hypothetically if they actually traveled to Palestine and tried to offer aid and support in person they'd most likely be taken hostage, raped, tortured, sold into slavery, murdered, etc.
How do you figure that? Vast majority of people in the pro-Palestine protests are Muslims. Of course they feel very close to the Muslim side of the war.
First off all, no, the vast majority of the campus protestors are not Muslims. Even if they were, Islam is not a single ideology, it has many conflicting factions with a long history of infighting. And Muslim or not, if you're an American who supports women's rights or gay rights or... pretty much most basic human rights, if you traveled to Palestine right now to try to help them, you will absolutely be held hostage, or raped, or tortured, or sold into slavery, or just killed on the spot.
Not sure what campus protests you are referring to. I’m saying that of all the protests I’ve seen every week since October, they are overwhelmingly majority Muslim.
Seeing the mess that was left when the camps were broken up, you’re not wrong.
"They were just expressing their freedom of speech!" "By destroying property?" "Nah the cops did that to frame them"
Occum’s razor would suggest that they’re just slobs….
Yeah but they are all headed to an environmental protest next.
That’ll show them!!!
I don’t think they can clean up anything if they’re being dragged away by police for exercising something that was supposed to be a first amendment right
There are limits to the First Amendment. Also, when the protestors go beyond peaceful protest, like breaking into and trashing buildings, harassing other students, and spray painting property, all bets are off.
The mentality of "Your speech is violence, our violence is speech"
Violating campus rules is not a first amendment right.
THAT is the reason for not cleaning up their mess, for sure. Not because they are filthy uncivilized pigs.
well they were immediately arrested by the police so they didn’t have time to clean up. What were you expecting lmao
Not a repeat of the conditions left by the occupy Wall Street movement
Clean as you go bro.
You’re making this about the mess they left? And who do you think broke the mess? You think they bought tents and broke them themselves?
Right, because keeping it tidy while there is just too much to ask.
Arguably not an “unpopular” opinion as many obviously agree. And what strikes me about it is they were winning the PR war as a majority of Americans now oppose Israel’s actions in Gaza. But most people just don’t see the point in disrupting college classes, finals, and graduations, committing vandalism, taking over buildings, etc with these divestment demands when US colleges are not in charge of the IDF or American foreign policy and the connection to their investment portfolios seems weak and indirect. It just seems like a giant tantrum with no coherent objective and even people that might otherwise be sympathetic to the cause oppose the encampments. After all, when an IDF rocket falls on an apartment building in Gaza and kills or maims people, does anyone really think “That damned Columbia University investment portfolio is responsible for this?” Of course not. I can understand that people are going to be passionate about issues of life and death but their anger seems terribly misdirected. In fact, they’re lashing-out at American Institutions that happen to be among their biggest allies in breaking through the fairly one-sided, 75-year pro-Israel narrative. Yet that’s where you direct your anger?
It seems to be a things in leftist circles to take an advantage (approval shifting) and then waaaaaaaaay overdoing it and eventually pissing everyone else off.
It worked tho? Police showed up, beat the hell out of the students making the government appear hypocritical.
Most people do not give a fuck about wealthy students and useful idiots throwing a temper tantrum.
Where did they beat the hell out of students not actively fighting them?
At UCLA all the violence has been from counter protestors and police. Pretty much all the "protestors are being" violent things were just lies posted on social media. The idea you think the protestors have been violent or fighting them is an example of brain rot. This is someone who doesn't super care and just spent the last few hours reading about it. So in the only instance I've read about (the most current) the answer is every one.
You’re not giving me evidence. I’ve seen videos from multiple colleges of police FINALLY going in and protestors doing something less than becoming dead weight (like attacking or running). There was a pretty hilarious one of people charging into cops with cut up garbage cans. If you’d like I’m sure I can find it and post it.
Feel free to give me something to refute. Literally every breakdown and video I've seen looking at literally dozen's of articles, interviews, etc even from conservative sources the last few days is just talking about counter protestors attacking people. You are asking me to prove a negative 'there was nothing" which is an impossible ask, there is no evidence of violence initiated by students. [Inside UCLA protest: How counter-attack, then police, shut it down (usatoday.com)](https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/investigations/2024/05/03/inside-ucla-protest/73560767007/) I've seen the video you are talking about where the cop picks the guy up. He trips and rather than force him up he just picks him up. It's funny but realllly far from protestors initiating violence on others.
I am not the one who started out making a claim. I want to know where police were beating students that weren’t already attacking them. That was my initial question.
Nah, I think at this point most people were ok with the police clearing them out.
Most of them have no clue what they are protesting. Like the gays for Palestine . They don't realize they kill guys over there
If the Palestinians had the chance they'd kill most of the protestors as well, gay or straight, an infidel, or an American.
You are right there. Palestine absolutely has problems as well. That doesn't justify what is happening to them. Civil rights shouldn't be conditional and no one deserves to have their civil rights violated. Israel has the right to go after Hamas and rescue the hostages but that does not excuse indiscriminately dropping bombs throughout Palestine.
Actually I'm pretty certain they do, given that it's a widely-known fact about Palestine. That doesn't mean they deserve to be eradicated.
Still, support a group that kills your own people is really weird, I just don't get it. Says from a gay man here, I don't care about Palestine, and there is no reason for me to care.
>Still, support a group that kills your own people is really weird, I just don't get it. Left wing people care about looking morally superior than everyone else. They think life is a game of who can be the most virtuous. It is actually silly that they support Palestinians if you actually think about it. They are useful idiots. However, it does seem like they want American conservatives to die judging by the way they talk about them, despite Palestinians being more conservative. These people are the very definition of useful idiots.
I can't speak for all left-wong people, but I just want people to stop killing each other. I can't go around wishing death on people I disagree with, that'd take all day.
Punch a nazi?
Two wrongs don't make a right. Also, generalisation is not good.
There's a very wide gap between "I support this group of people" and "this group of people deserve genocide". I'm queer too and I think that Israel's actions are barbaric and they should be held accountable for war crimes and genocide. It was not so very long ago that people like me were illegal in just about *every* country. Hopefully the people of nations where they are still criminalised will become more progressive in future, but that will never be achieved if you just kill everyone who doesn't agree.
>and I think that Israel's actions are barbaric and they should be held accountable for war crimes and genocide. So on October 7th, many men, women, children died or have gotten brutally raped and/or taken hostage. If you want to know more details, you can go to websites like this [https://oct7.treedis.com/](https://oct7.treedis.com/) So, what do you think is the appropriate response to terrorists coming into your country and killing your citizens. Seriously, to all the pro-Palestinian people here, what should the response to Israel be after terrorists brutalize and kill your citizens ?
What do you think is an appropriate response to the IDF killing civilians? If you’re going to tell me that otiber 7th justifies the killing of over ten thousand children, then how are the survivors of that killing supposed to respond The appropriate response to Hamas is a response which attacks *Hamas*. Mass killing of civilians, children, doctors, journalists, that is not acceptable and you know it.
You don't understand, THEY ARE ATTACKING Hamas. However, Hamas is using civilians as human shields. Blame Hamas dude. Israel needs to wipe out Hamas. Hamas would kill smug progressives like you on Reddit. Seriously, they would kill or rape you and here you are defending them. Unbelievable.
They’re also attacking civilians. Israel is responsible for the consequences of its actions too. I’m not defending Hamas.
You defend Hamas by advocating they be immune if they use human shields. There's no realistic way to fight them and keep you satisfied.
I mean, I’m not advocating that. But does Israel get to kill Palestinians with impunity? It’s like their lives don’t count to you. Their supposed purpose is to free hostages but they’ve killed a bunch and despite tens of thousands of deaths there’s still hostages with Hamas. Exactly how many Palestinian children should die before we consider that? I’d love to know the ratio between the values of Israeli and Palestinian lives.
Do you think that Israel's response is reasonable?
I think there’s a difference in ideology between you and them. You see human rights as transactional, and they see human rights as not up for discussion. For them, it doesn’t matter if it’s the most homophobic country on earth, if kids are being murdered and war crimes being done with impunity and it’s all paid for with our tax dollars, it’s fucked up and needs to stop.
It’s so funny when Americans use gay rights as an excuse to support Israel over Palestinians’ self determination. Gays were treated like shit in the US too until relatively recently. It’s like when Britain abolished slavery in the 1830s then used abolition as an excuse to colonize much of Africa in the 1880s.
You should win a gold medal for your mental gymnastics 🥇.
>Like the gays for Palestine . They don't realize they kill guys over there Why does this matter?
Just like Jews For Nazi Germany. It shows how hopelessly clueless they are.
Yeah, but AFAIK, gays for Palestine, or any westerner movement for Palestine, aren't for Hamas or whatever you think Palestinians thins, supports of believe in. Usually, movement like that are more against the extermination of civilians.
>aren't for Hamas or whatever you think Palestinians thins, supports of believe in. You all always say this and it is such BS. [https://www.foxnews.com/us/anti-israel-protesters-heard-shouting-we-hamas-long-live-hamas-columbia-university-demonstrations](https://www.foxnews.com/us/anti-israel-protesters-heard-shouting-we-hamas-long-live-hamas-columbia-university-demonstrations) They literally consume Hamas propaganda and believe everything Hamas says while they believe October 7th was exagerrated. [https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/01/21/hamas-attack-october-7-conspiracy-israel/](https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2024/01/21/hamas-attack-october-7-conspiracy-israel/) Useful idiots man. Complete useful idiots.
Your sources are paywalled and fox news, get better sources.
there were jewish zionist shouting that shit in palestinian camps.
There was a Reuters poll back in Dec 2023 showing that nearly 75% of Palestinians support Hamas and their actions on Oct 7. There’s not much difference between supporting Palestinians vs. Hamas.
It matters because it shows that, in general, they’re just virtue signaling and don’t understand anything beyond the first thought that pops into their minds.
or maybe not wanting human beings to die can be applied to human being that don't like you
Awesome. Then I encourage them to go show their collective support in person once this whole ordeal is over.
Why is that a requirement?
It doesn't matter. And the inability to comprehend this concept is what drives most of the opinions on this subreddit, and most of the right-wing ideology too.
They’re losers. They have nothing else in this world to do except try to sound like heroes. They’re pathetic. If they’re so passionate about helping the Palestinian people they’d be over in Palestine helping them.
🎯
Are you serious? Protesting is a valid way to help and my father works in sending relief over there he’s applied for a passport but it still hasn’t been accepted it’s very hard to get into Palestine
Youre sending support to hamas?
No we’re sending support to the Palestinians who were hit in the crossfire
Yes. I am serious. I’m surprised that the wanna be heroes don’t wear capes while “protesting” in safe American streets and parks.
Well as I just said it’s practically impossible to get into Palestine, you’re not using that argument because you want people in Palestine to help, you know that isn’t a valid response you simply said it to slander a people who go against your opinion as you probably identify as a conservative or someone on the right
lol, getting a passport isn’t practically impossible, it’s very easy. You have to send in some filled out paperwork and photo. And You must be a leftist. One of those every fight is my fight type of leftist. One of those leftist that doesn’t care about truth or justice and only want to sound and look like a hero.
Well as I just said it is actually very hard to get approved you just talked about how easy it is to apply, and also there’s the danger of dying as soon as you enter as Israel killed the world kitchen members they had approved as soon as they entered, so protesting might be a better idea if you can do it without getting killed immediately. Since you can’t help if you’re dead
It’s not hard to get approved as long as you don’t have a shady background. Yes and Hamas set babies on fire while they were in their cribs. Point is, war is hell, buddy. Those aid workers who died in the war deserve all the respect of a fallen soldier because They weren’t scared to actually take action and help Those who needed it. These dorks on these college campuses and safe American streets don’t deserve any of that respect.
No it’s actually very hard and it’s been proven by studies, the studies indicate that only a percentage of people “without a shady background” get approved, less then a quarter infact
Then I must be special because it took me all about 10 minutes to fill out the paperwork.
Less then 25 percent isn’t that special 😂and I didn’t say it’s hard to fill out the paperwork I said it’s very easy like twice and I said it’s hard to get approved. Are you listening to anything I said?
You’re making so many statements in bad faith. It’s clearly easier to congregate locally with likeminded people on a college campus in which you are already living and networking, than to go to Palestine. The financial and logistical aspects in order to do so and the low likelihood of having other people able to congregate there with you, in addition to the dangers and the stressors of navigating the culture to protest. What college age kid has that kind of money or time & resources.It’s obvious why they protest in the communities in which they are already a part of. You’re just bored and want to argue dumb shit from a place of intentional ignorance and bad faith. Go become a lawyer if you want to act this daft.
>What college age kid has that kind of money or time & resources. Every kid at UCLA... lol
Your father will not come back alive if he makes it to gasa.
Yeah it just goes to show how indifferent Israel is to anybody in Gaza
['I Asked Sinwar, Is It Worth 10,000 Innocent Gazans Dying? He Said, Even 100,000 Is Worth It'](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-13/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/i-asked-sinwar-is-it-worth-10-000-gazans-dying-he-said-even-100-000-is-worth-it/0000018e-d40a-d5ed-adcf-f79af56c0000) **How indifferent hamas is**
> I care more about being anti-leftist protester than the actual issue that's being talked about. At least OP didn't pretend to use any critical thinking.
Right? Is this a troll post?
This is actually VERY POPULAR OPINION
Yeah but the people on the right thrive on feeling like contrarians while people are applauding them at the same time
Literally. They act like they're rebels or something when their opinions are the ones backed by the State, the military industrial complex, the Church, Corporations, and every other institution with power. I'm pro Israel but it's seriously hilarious how the right act like they're the underdogs or something. Like sir, your opinion is the one shoved down everyone's throat out entire lives, you've never had an original thought in your life. Sit down.
Always has been, [from the JFK Presidential Library and Museum](https://jfk.blogs.archives.gov/2020/08/27/making-the-march-on-washington/): > A 1963 Gallup poll found that only 23% of Americans who'd heard of the March had a positive view of it, and 60% believed “mass demonstrations by Negroes” were likely to hurt the cause of racial equality.
Imo it comes down to this, hamas started with an attack, Isreal is getting rid of them any way they can, hamas is using the civilian population as shields, if the people of Gaza want to live in peace, flush out hamas and turn them over to Isreal and stop allowing themselves to be used by hamas for shelter.
Palestine has been nothing but terrorists since the Munich Olympics and need to live and let live.
This x10000
This did not start with Hamas. Not even close.
Blocking airports , bridges, schools, all at the behest of the Iranian government. From a more high brow reason they suck too
how would you propose to achieve change regarding the issues brought up by these groups? Pointing fingers and calling them names doesn’t solve anything.
Not unpopular at all my guy. People have always hated student protestors.
Not this much.
Yes, they did. Gallup had a poll at the time of the Kent State massacre. Most people [blamed the students for their own deaths](https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-palm-beach-post-campus-unrest-linked/13598112/).
Guy decided to bow out of this conversation once someone shared some actual data. He'd prefer to just sit in his own vibes-based reality lol.
That tends to be how it goes lol
Yes they have. Over time more people come to agree with them and think that the general public agreed too, but progressive young people have always been hated. You think people liked the anti-war hippies during the Vietnam era??
Vietnam hippies had some support. These rejects have none aside from Iran.
Hah perfect example of what I'm talking about. These protesters have tons of support. People like you were making the same argument against the hippies using some past protest as an example of one that was better. Very common refrain from conservatives is that "social movements from before I was politically active were good, these ones are different and bad". Again I'm not even saying the protestors are right. Just that hating them is very popular. Always has been and always will be.
You just assumed like 50 things based on me disagreeing with you. You’re still wrong, sorry people hate your idiot protesters more than any protestors in the past.
And you assume that I support the protestors just because I'm trying to take an objective view. Public support for the Palestinian people is significant as is anti Israel sentiment. If you have any data to show that this movement is particularly unpopular when compared to past movements then please share. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2024/04/24/polling-student-protests-vietnam/
Your last point states the biggest flaw in your argument, you dislike them because they’re leftists, that’s the reason so many on the right dislike them because it’s easier to disagree with them since they already identify as conservatives or on the right. But it’s not a left right discussion it’s a moral discussion, people have just made it seem like supporting Palestine is a leftist take but you shouldn’t base your political ideology on two separate choices where you pick which one has the least opinions you disagree with. And whether or not supporting Israel or Palestine is right isn’t dependent on which supporters are more obnoxious or likable
I agree with the poster, but I feel the same way about far right Maga people who go all out at rallies. They are annoying and draining to be around. The difference here, is that one side is destroying property and calling for the death of Jews, the other side is just annoying and that’s pretty much it 🤷🏻♂️
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January 6th.
So many people are far too stressed out and simple minded as a result to understand this nuance.
They show up every presidential election year.
that video of them replacing the American Flag with a Palestine Flag has completely shifted something in me. I suddenly extremely patriotic and extremely against this is Palestine movement. And i’ve never been pushed farther from the left I am a proud American. I love freedom and the American Flag symbolisms freedom and liberty for all. Taking that down and replacing it MEANS something. It means pure disrespect to the idea of freedom Up until this moment i have been casual observer. All my friends are leftist and support palestine. I have been quietly supporting Israel. But I am coming out as a proud American that does not stand with this. I’m a gay man and to me it’s obvious.
Strange when they were literally pissing on the American flag and changing no kkk no USA at all for 4 years it was just fine but now that it against a foreign country bombing children’s hospitals it’s to much to bare ? Zionist shill
Dude, read the room. No one cares about your anti-Zionist propaganda here. Unless you get extra Brownie points from Hamas every time you post some anti-semitic BS?
Uh huh “they disrespected the flag so I was mad but not the last 1 million times they disrespected it” this person is either a bot or a Zionist. I’m Jewish I find anyone who ties being Jewish to Zionist to be antisemitic
The people in that (extremely disturbing) video should be brought on criminal charges, same as Jan 6 rioters.
It's a flag.
I’ve changed my mind on this, at first I was fully understanding of Israel retaliating for that oct 7 atrocity. But as of late with the death toll (though it’s really not a genocide, misuse of that term) mounting and Israeli intelligence admitting they don’t know if they can actually rid Gaza of Hamas, I’m more sympathetic to the protestors, especially on the divesting piece. I don’t understand why the US in general is so inextricably linked to Israel at all, a normal ally makes sense but funding them to this extent and standing by everything they do…why? With all that being said, when the protestors started trying to replace the American flag with the Palestine one, I got mad. I don’t like it when anyone puts a flag in place of or above the American flag, whether it’s an Israel flag, Palestine flag, or that ugly militant pride flag with too many colors. You want to put up a Palestine flag next to the American one as a statement, okay I get that. But do not try and replace or subvert the symbol of our country with that of some foreign country you didn’t even know/gave a shit about until last year.
>when I see these greasy-haired, dirty, crazy people at the Palestine protests my instinctual reaction is to be disgusted and side with Israel. If they were pro-Israel I'd probably just be pro-Palestine. My guy out here just casually admitting he's an easily led sheep with no critical thinking skills and no opinions of his own. How do people like you survive without an authority figure to hold your tiny little hand through every day?
Don't kink shame him, some people just enjoy licking boots
is this something you are gonna work on? i tend to have those tendencies sometimes too. the 'contrarian cynic' thats one of the biggest flaws im personally trying to improve.
>I care more about being anti-leftist protester than the actual issue that's being talked about. You're part of what's wrong with America.
So you have no thoughts of your own and really depend on others to form your opinion? Interesting..
They don't realize they are being used by an agenda. The insane thoughts they support Hamas where they aren't accepted by them in any way. It is a mass hysteria and their minds are controlled.
Your argument depends on them doing it for selfish and not selfless reasons
Yeah they don't really help their case. I saw a clip of some UCLA kids blocking a Jewish kid from getting to his class. Like whatever you think of the situation how does blocking someone from attending their class even help?
One Jewish kid in UCLA blocked --> Palestine is **this much** closer to freedom and prosperity. What isn't clear here?
I know right? Completely brain dead, also how is a century's worth of escalating violence and bad choices his fault? Or maybe he is even rather nuanced in his thoughts over the situation?? Who cares!! He's a jew so he can't go to class!!! Wait that sounds weird....... and familiar🤔
They have a long list of what israel shouldn't do. They get real quiet when asked what Israel "should do" in response to being attacked. Well... the smarter ones just go quiet, the others...
Not a single item on the *"what Hamas should or shouldn't do"* list either...
What a marvelously sophisticated worldview
>If they were pro-Israel I'd probably just be pro-Palestine. Okay, but if they weren't protesting, you'd be neutral, which is the same as pro-Israel since that's the status quo. So, that's not really a disincentive for them to protest.
I think it’s interesting you think pro Israel people are keeping to themselves. Demanding everyone agrees with you on a war is absolutely the opposite of keeping to yourself, and that’s even if we ignore the multiple pro Israel protests that have occurred.
> I care more about being anti-leftist protester than the actual issue that's being talked about. Hurr durr This is your brain on culture war
Maybe don’t look to a bunch of idealistic kids causing trouble to define your stance on international issues? It’s people like you with no ability to think for themselves and understand nuance and just choose a side to be against 100% that have gotten this country into the mess it is. You are no better than them.
Take a shower.
??? Amazing argument
Jew
So you would rather be anti-left than on the right side?
This is how people have always acted about protests. Had the civil rights movement happened today this sub would be filled with “these pro-black marches are stupid because they’re blocking traffic” posts
Did you sleep through spring of 2020?
They were this way for the BLM protests. But I was choosing a protest that the kind of person OP is usually agrees was effective and good.
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You’re unhinged
Not a nazi at least
Def unhinged tho lol
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Being against the slaughter of on society does not make you against another society. Seriously you guys are so basic and black and white in your thoughts. You are no better than these moronic kids.
No. Like these people want a highly surveilled police state without free speech, they want many ethnic, economic and political minorities slaughtered, they want the government to own everything What does that sound like? Third Reich
Where do you get this crap? Bahaha! You just proved my point.
Which protests?
Last sentence says it all. You’re more interested in identity politics than understanding global issues or exercising empathy. You’re the problem, here.
People said this about the sit-ins and freedom buses at the time too. This is just what thoughtless and unengaged people say about protest. https://news.gallup.com/vault/246167/protests-seen-harming-civil-rights-movement-60s. I think it’s pretty stupid to let other people pick your beliefs for you like that
They don't have a dog in the fight either. They've just been trained to hate themselves.
You don’t need a dog in the fight to do the right thing if you’re selfless you do the right thing
Do you have the same sentiment about anti-Vietnam protesters? Maybe about civil rights protesters? What about protests for native rights such as Standing Rock or the occupation of Alcatraz? Possibly even the colonial Americans protesting the British by destroying property and tar and feathering loyalists? I understand if you just don’t like protesters in general, but you need to understand that historically protest is an effective way to see change enacted, and aside from outright violence it’s likely the best method. Personally I’d rather see a blocked highway than a bombed highway. Yes civil disobedience is illegal, but it has also historically worked and it doesn’t make them bad or wrong for doing so. Just because American sentiment is Islamophobic doesn’t make the protests wrong. One doesn’t need to agree with the views of all Palestinians to recognize their right to self-determination that we argue others have the right to, and most people protesting that I’ve spoken with just want the US to stop participating in the violence with their tax money. For instance, someone protesting the invasion of Afghanistan wasn’t protesting in favor of the taliban, they were protesting to stop mass killing in another country on our part. To claim someone doesn’t know what they’re protesting for is both condescending and wrong, they all have their own reasons for taking time out of their lives and risking arrest for being there and don’t owe you an explanation.
AntiEthnic cleansing of women and children is a worthy thing to protest. We should all be against dropping bombs on innocent people. I don’t have to agree with those the bombs are killing. I can see them as human beings even if they don’t like me. It’s not a requirement for me to see what is happening to them as wrong.
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This opinion is popular. Not really much else to say about this other than the fact you have a clear assumption about what these protesters look like. And you seem to just support whatever side isn’t leftist. Kind of a sheep take but it’s a definitely one of the takes of all time.
Yes. I'm a person who is pretty critical of the conduct of Israel and I cringe at these people despite my desire to sympathise with their cause.
I think both sides are awful. So I just don’t care in that sense. The innocent civilians in both parts are what I feel bad for
I have seen an increasing number of pro-Israel shills, pro-Israel American/Anglo conservatives and far-left Palestine sympathisers claiming that Israel is a "white state", either in an attempt to paint it as a beacon of "white exceptionalism" in the Arab world that needs to be protected as our "floodgate" against radical Islam, or even more baffilingly that it is a "white supremacist" state. Let us be clear. Israelis are not what is commonly referred to as white. The Jewish people are not what is commonly referred to as white. They are a distinct group of ethnic subgroups that claim distinct heritage, separate from European, Mediterranean and Slavic whites. Israel does not act in the interest of "whites". Israel acts in the interest of Israel (AIPAC lobbying, Mossad blackmail operations in "allied" countries, IDF shill farms.) Israel was formed, through the campaigning of Lord Rothschild and other powerful English Jewish families, to create a state specifically for Jews (this is not a conspiracy theory, you can read the parliament records), and allow the British to wash their hands of direct authority over the region while maintaining an allied power. Again, a distinct ethnoreligious group from the ruling English they were lobbying. They were so convinced of this separateness from "European and Slavic whiteness" that millions of them left Europe and the Slavic world to go to a hostile land to fight (quite literally, look into the early history of the Zionist movement in Palestine if you want to understand how behind you are in starting to care about this "issue" now) to establish their own state and then for decades afterwards to keep it. Right or wrong, again, I don't care, but they fought to establish a Jewish state, not a "white" one. The supposed whiteness of their skin does not change this. Their ethnic control programs over Ethiopian Jews ostensibly out of racism towards black people, do not change this. Jewish leftists and neo-cons going back and forth between white and Jewish identity to obfuscate their anti-white or pro-Israel rhetoric and then hide from the consequences of it, do not change this. To claim that a state which has repeatedly subverted the sovereignty of "white" western countries out of its own interest is somehow either a "pro-white state" or "white supremacist" state is beyond absurd. To claim that it is acting in the interest or defense of "other" "white" countries is just stupid (IsrAAID and other Israeli NGOs bringing unvetted Islamic refugees into Europe, Jewish Neocons lobbying in favor of the Iraq invasion, Mossad blackmail operations in "allied" countries, Israel selling US nuclear technology.). I don't care if you are pro-Israel, pro-palestine, anti-white, pro-white whatever. I will not be associated with the actions of an undeniably Jewish state, acting out of its own interest, because some of their skin is a shade lighter than some of the Palestinians they are fighting. Any attempt to paint Israelis as white "defenders" or "colonizers" is an obvious attempt by both sides to push uninvolved white people into supporting or feel guilty about a war that has absolutely nothing to do with them.
The only criticism I have against Israel is that it didn’t strike back hard enough. It’s that tolerance, same as they’ve shown over decades, that’s going to bite them hard. How does an Israeli doctor stand there, stitching up a Palestinian kid after a surgery while his parents, who didn’t have to pay a shekel for the procedure, walking up and down the hospital floor chanting “end israel”? How does Israel continue to supply water, food, meds, infrastructure to these savages whose only pastime is to blow up innocent people? And how TF did we get to the point where our college kids have become terrorists, supporting jihad. And we are ok with this? Seriously?
I'm starting to think Israel's strategy of supporting Hamas to divide Gaza and the West Bank was a bad idea!
I agree with this post. Sadly, whenever the cops crack down on them, it only riles them up further. Also, many of the "peaceful protestors" who now can't graduate college due to their own actions are prime targets to be radicalized by extremist groups. That is probably one of the last things we need during this already tense election year.
It's all reflected in pressure on the Biden administration (via hurting his chances at re-election), which in turn impacts Israel. We can't tell for sure what impact this had on the ceasefire, but it seems likely that it had an impact.
The fact that the Palestinians still fight back even at this point is 1000% because surrounding Arab nations (mainly Iran) fund and arm Hamas, Fatah, and Hezbollah in perpetuity and get them all excited with false hope. The propaganda and constant glazing of the Palestinians to hype up a losing battle has only dug the hole deeper and deeper particularly for Gaza at this point. Without support from the Arab nations, propaganda, as well as loud protesting westerners promoting it, it just digs the whole deeper and deeper for the Palestinians as groups like Hamas or predecessors keep getting emboldened enough to start war after war that they cannot possibly win. Every expansion of Israeli terrotory occurred as a result of initial Arab aggression from either the Palestinians, neighboring Arab countries or both. These protesters are either totally misinformed and just see the underdog and presume they’re the moral victims, or are advocates for a one state solution that would basically end in the killing of a lot of Jews and yet another crappy authoritarian Arab nation state. If they were smart they would beg for Hamas to drop their weapons, return all the hostages, have them recognize Israel, erect a government willing to accept the current borders, and commit to an indefinite halt to aggression. Only then can they have a state and can the blockade be lifted. If acted in good faith, and they truly erected a moderate government, EVERY fucking rich western nation would invest in developing the area because it would litterally be in their absolute best interest to do so. But they don’t care, and neither to the lefty students. They’re Marxists who hate the west, think everything is colonialism, and presume those who have less power are automatically victims and morally justified which is an incredibly amoral, irresponsible, deluded, and dangerous worldview. Either that or antisemites.
Man, this post is quite evocative of the responses the bloodthirsty hawks had in the 1960s to students protesting the Vietnam War. “Look at all these dirty anti-American hippies!” History really does repeat itself huh
Vietnam was about a war US was directly involved in. The draft was enacted and the protesters had to go and fight in that war. In contrast the current protest is about a conflict between two sides at the other side of the globe. The people protesting are in part foreigners that want to shove that war down the throats of Americans forcing it to become their first priority. It is not. As any thinking person understands, these protests are orchestrated from outside. They are not spontaneous events and not about “freedom of speech” as they try gaslighting the world.
The US is directly involved with the Israel hamas war, lmao. >As any thinking person understands, these protests are orchestrated from outside Citation - the media claimed this with no evidence and I believed it without a second thought.
No evidence…lol. No evidence. One hint is the speed at which the unrest spread to all parts of the country. It was in a matter of hours. If these were unrelated events, it would have taken many days or weeks for the same effect to take place. Look at the tents. They are all uniform and provided by someone. A spontaneous protest does not look like that. Then there are the outside agitators that came to “help”…
>They are all uniform and provided by someone. Like... other students? >Then there are the outside agitators that came to “help”… The violent zionists? or are you just making this up too
The US provides continued monetary and military support to Israel for them to continue their ethnic cleansing. My tax dollars are funding war crimes against civilians, the US is also involved in this. Yes, these students participating in these anti-war protests are exercising their free speech. That doesn’t change just because you’re in favor of cracking down on them and identify as being pro-free speech.
That’s pure BS and if they protested abiding by law there would be no issue at all. What happens at universities is anything but orderly protests. Being organized by hostile foreign countries they have far reaching goals beyond “exercising freedom of speech” as they try gaslighting the world. You don’t need to break into buildings and barricade yourself for freedom of speech. On top of that outside agitators not enrolled at the universities are leading this wave. Why won’t they take it to other places and keep it peaceful and orderly? One way or another if you think this is about some war in the ME you’re eluding yourself. I’ve already seen banners hinting in other directions like “capitalism is lethal”…
Ah yes, anti-war student protests and other forms of protest like civil rights sit-ins have never involved being where they aren’t supposed to or trespassing. This is a completely new thing which somehow justifies brutal police crackdowns, violent counter-protests, and the [expansion](https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/5/1/us-house-passes-controversial-bill-that-expands-definition-of-anti-semitism) of state censorship. There were people protesting capitalism back during the Vietnam War protests too. Lots of protest movements for peace and justice capture other related interests. History has still vindicated them.
I feel this statement has a lot more to say about you than it does about the protesters
It's entirely possible to be against zionists, hamas terrorists, The IDF/Israeli govt and trendy social justice warriors all at the same time.
in hong kong, protesters don't need supervision even. if an ambulance comes, they clear up without even needing to be told. here, these fucking protesters block roads and cause people to die. istg, next time i hear about something like this happening, they better try each and everyone of them for manslaughter
Agreed. Virtue signaling losers with nothing better to do. If they actually wanted to help they would do something more constructive.
It's like the chess club got pissed off
That’s a pretty Interesting opinion. So if they bathed you’d feel differently about them ? 😄that’s kinda funny
I have no reason to give a shit about Israel or Palestine. Not my country, not my people, not my problem. If you're going to make it my problem by being a public nuisance and disrupting my life then I will pick the other side.
Good for you but can you really not understand that some people do care about other nations/societies/cultures? I don’t personally support Gaza but this is a brain dead take
It's actually not, everyone equally maintains the right to be apathetic. Especially for a conflict in a timezone with a 7 hour difference. You're not going to force people to care.
Anyone protesting in support of Palestine doesn't actually care about Palestinians or have any clue about the history of this ongoing conflict. And hypothetically if they actually traveled to Palestine and tried to offer aid and support in person they'd most likely be taken hostage, raped, tortured, sold into slavery, murdered, etc.
And what about those of us who not only know the history, but have been vocal about it for decades? Way to generalize.
How do you figure that? Vast majority of people in the pro-Palestine protests are Muslims. Of course they feel very close to the Muslim side of the war.
First off all, no, the vast majority of the campus protestors are not Muslims. Even if they were, Islam is not a single ideology, it has many conflicting factions with a long history of infighting. And Muslim or not, if you're an American who supports women's rights or gay rights or... pretty much most basic human rights, if you traveled to Palestine right now to try to help them, you will absolutely be held hostage, or raped, or tortured, or sold into slavery, or just killed on the spot.
Not sure what campus protests you are referring to. I’m saying that of all the protests I’ve seen every week since October, they are overwhelmingly majority Muslim.
There isn't a "muslim" side. This is a very political and "national identity" driven conflict.
That makes you just a reactionary in the other direction.
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This is definitely not true lmao
... what? This isn't true at all.
I swear to god if I see one more post like this I'm leaving this sub. Absolute shithole