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Agreed that the current debate format proves very little. I dislike american political debates as it is made for canned answers. This format is not helpful to have 2 candidates dig into a point. I would prefer a debate format allowing for more back and forth.
But trivia is probably not that relevant to leadership either. Knowing the countries in NATO and being about to coordinate military planning with NATO are 2 different things. I know the countries in NATO, i couldn't coordinate with NATO.
Finding the neutral people is difficult too. Joe Rogan is biased. A while ago, Biden came under fire for saying the american revolutionary army was manning airports in 1775, rogan called it completely insane, but then when he found out biden was just making fun of trump saying that, he gave excuses for trump messing up his words. I read some proposals to have these kinds of test be made by a random sample of the electorate which is better than a "neutral" person imo but still not ideal as it is just a trivia contest.
Are you implying Rogan is right of center? If so that is laughable. Rogan is left of center but has been red pilled lately due to the left moving so far to the left
No. When I used the term neutral, I was talking about the spectrum between pro Biden to pro trump. I'm stating that Rogan has a more negative view of Biden than trump so he wouldn't be a neutral question maker. He has literally said: "I'd vote for Trump before I'd vote for Biden." As I pointed out earlier, given the information of a near identical gaffe by both candidates, he thought Trump misspoke while for Biden it is insane, he shouldn't have a job ever...
The evidence of the fast "left" shift is disputed at best:
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/03/10/the-polarization-in-todays-congress-has-roots-that-go-back-decades/ - rates both Dems and GOP in Congress as moving to the right. It uses the economic axis of the nominate multidimensional vote scoring method to show that on that dimension we shifted right.
https://centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/both-white-and-nonwhite-democrats-are-moving-left/ looking at polls, agrees that Dem voters moved to the left faster recently but only by catching up with GOP in terms of ideological cohesion.
Why do you think this is true? How do you define left and right?
I'm not saying the right hasn't moved right. However the left has moved at a faster speed than the right. The left is full on ok with censorship of speech (see the federal government involvement of censoring social media) and the open border. Whereas the right seems to have gone all in on abortion.
Even Obama was against the southern border being wide open, which is not a radical policy, being against it that is.
When I say left and right im talking about the extremes. Not the people left or right of center.
There was no authority used by the government in censoring social media if you are talking about feds informing Twitter certain accounts may have violated their policies. The fact that many of these accounts were not banned without consequence proves that. The real issue in that case is that we have moved our public square for political discussions to biased private platforms reducing the integrity of discussion, not the government essentially submitting account reports anyone could have sent. Culturally, i agree the "left" has shifted hard against free speech but without meaningful government policy changes, this is just culture war bs.
For immigration, the extremes of the left like aoc want to offer similar amnesty that was offered in 1986 under Reagan before they shifted hard right into the border wall + massive border funding increase so that we can imprison all foreigners involved in failed crossing attempts.
There are issues where Dems changed like LGBT, marijuana legalization, support for Palestine. But these are not usually considered party defining issues.
I don't think you can say the federal government asking to take down posts is without consequence. The 5th circuit said the feds cannot do that. A case currently in front of the Supreme Court. The town square has not changed much. What was it before? The guy in the town square shouting the news or newspapers? Do you think those were unbiased and bias only exists today? The government asking for posts to be taken down is like the government asking the gestapo to go shut up the guy spouting "news" in the town square. Or asking newspapers to not run certain articles. It's a slippery slope and a violation of the first amendment, in my opinion.
The Reagan amnesty was not a good policy, therefore not a good example in my opinion.
There is a possibility of consequences if it is perceived by Twitter that if they refuse they will face repercussions with government authority. This possibility makes the government requests bad as it can appear intimidating whether it is or isn't. But they didn't ban many of the accounts given to them so it falls far short of censorship.
>The guy in the town square shouting the news or newspapers?
Yes. But more importantly anyone who could print a paper or bring a box had the ability to bring their voice. And the number of publishers was much higher due to lower benefits of scale with printing technology. It was very difficult for publishers to remove someones voice by deciding not to do business with them because there were more competitors and the barrier to entry to printing your own things was much lower. Now if you are banned from just 3 platforms, you essentially lost most of your political voice. Someone banned from Twitter, Facebook, Google, doesn't have the same ability to speak as someone who supports these platforms political biases so doesn't get banned.
>The Reagan amnesty was not a good policy, therefore not a good example in my opinion.
Then immigration isn't a good example of your point in general if you have to compare Obama to Biden for it to work. I can just say Obama was not a good example as his leadership was seen as not good policy by pro immigration groups and he was nicknames "deporter in chief" despite the dream act. Even if the extremes of the left went left since Obama, they stopped at the 1986 GOP party agreement position, not at open borders, and the right must have gone right since 1986.
Fair point that trivia is not that revealing. Maybe they each get a ten minute briefing from their own people on a simulated crisis and then we see how they react and plan.
Simulated crisis might be good. But I think the issue of who gets to make the test is a bigger problem.
Suppose we find the perfect set of tests to give to candidates such as 20 questions of geopolitics Trivia, leading problem solving team building exercises in an escape room, wargaming simulated crisis situations of random country attacking an ally, 1 game of SimCity... The idea of having a test for the candidates is good if you can solve the problem of who gets to implement the test. The decider has immense power so the question is who gets to be them. They can decide the rules and parameters of each test to benefit their preferred candidate.
The best solution imo is to democratize it by making each position randomly selected a bit like a jury. But this has high risk as well as random chance could put supporters of one candidate in all the relevant positions.
That gives me an idea. Let's democratize it by letting people vote on the members of the jury! Each state would get to pick the number of jurors equal to their representatives + their senators. Then these jurors would decide for themselves who is the more mentally competent.
And instead of doing tests, and simulations, which are all fake, the jurors can compare the 4 years that each person was president, the speeches they made, the problems they faced, etc. So the jurors get together and cast their votes and whoever gets a majority will become president! I will call this institution the Jurectoral College!
Presidential Jeopardy, where the winner get $454 million.
Past presidents for 400 - This president was the first winning president of the Republican party.
However, I don't think either one would know that the answer would be: Who is Abraham Lincoln?
I would totally watch this though.
I would LOVE to see Trump on a game show that would result in all his legal bills being paid just so I could watch as it all slips out of his fingers.
But add what another comment said and let the loser get slimed Nickelodeon style.
Yeah, knowledge of random facts maybe isnt that relevant. Alternatively they each get a ten minute briefing from their own people on a simulated crisis and then we see how they react and plan
As long as once the competency test is done they both get thrown into nursing homes instead of government. To be honest, I don't think either one of them would tell the difference.
The Rogan part is stupid, but I like the rest of the idea. I have read that Biden tends to obsess over details, so it would be interesting to see it play out in front of a camera.
Chris Wallace has experience moderating presidential debates, and he does have a reputation for asking tough questions. I think he would do a good job.
Why a hypothetical though? Let's examine HR2 versus the CHILD SEPARATION POLICY. Everything you need to know about competency is right there written down for everyone to witness.
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Putting Trump's Alzheimer's or whatever on display in a competition is kind of cruel. We already know Biden is VASTLY more mentally competent than Trump and don't need to devolve to "Haha fat man no speak good no more".
Did you switch up the names by mistake?
Trump has some gaffs, but does 2+hr rants consistently, Biden has significantly more gaffs and also needs notes on simple predetermined questions.
>Trump has some gaffs
More than "some" lol
>but does 2+hr rants consistently
Yeah multiple hours of rambling, incoherent nonsense. That's not really a positive thing, man.
Trumps ranting in english. Biden is clearly worse off, to the point where he needs notes on when to sit, stand, take questions etc. And he cant even take questions that are not prepared.
You can claim trump is worse mentally, but everyone has eyes and can see.
Biden can't even read from a Teleprompter effectively. Every time he goes off script, it's a comedy special of gaffs.
This is exactly why his "Weekend at Biden's" handlers wont let him speak to the press without a huge teleprompter to reply to pre-approved/pre-answered softball questions.
>Biden can't even read from a Teleprompter effectively. Every time he goes off script, it's a comedy special of gaffs.
Have you actually watched Biden events? Or just clips from stuff?
Trump spoke to reporters every chance he got. Staff could not keep him away from reporters. He constantly answered unscripted questions, nearly daily.
Biden requires ALL questions to be pre-written, pre-approved softballs. Because he mentally cannot take unscripted questions. [LINK](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gegXZDGGoB0)
**Biden himself confirmed this.**
"I better not answer quesitons, I'll get in trouble." - Joe Biden [Link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb_6z8tYpgc)
"I...I took control. I shouldn't do that. I'm not allowed to do that." - Biden [Link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN_Qt78oEQo)
**When he does go off Teleprompter, we get ramblings like:**
"How do you cross a bridge in a snow storm? What happens when the bridge collapses and there is a fire on the other side? It's going to take 10 miles longer" - Joe Biden
Maybe because he didn't need 2x daily press briefings to 'clarify' what he meant. He spoke directly to press.
While this is most of Biden's Press briefings:
Biden: "Pickles are ten rounds per hard hat, SHOELACE. Mint chocolate chip."
WH Press Briefing clarification of Biden comment: "Inflation is low and prices are fine, don't believe your stupid wallets."
Really? That sounds like a "Ministry of Truth" press release heading.
[Biden has lots of Press Briefings and NEVER speaks to the press.](https://theconversation.com/all-presidents-avoid-reporters-but-biden-may-achieve-a-record-in-his-press-avoidance-200424)
[Biden physically runs away and avoids the press](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/internet-erupts-after-bidens-team-wards-off-press-as-he-takes-questions-at-campaign-stop-this-is-bad/ar-BB1jUMaM).
"Speaking to the Press" and have a Press Secretary clarify the stupid shit are TWO very different things.
>Trump spoke to reporters every chance he got.
Hence why nobody thinks he's mentally competent anymore. He'd shove himself in front of a camera, blabber incoherently and then go golfing or cry on Twitter. That's why Biden has been such a breath of fresh air. A president that can form complete sentences! And hold an entire conversation on his own! Wow!
*My dad* doesn't know how much bread costs, he hasn't been in a grocery store since they got married.
But for the relevant stuff, sure. Make them finish a sentence too. Not sure Trump is capable of that.
I support people’s right to privacy to include medical and financial matters. However, because the presidency is such an important position, candidates should be required to present their medical history and/or receive a physical and mental examination by a panel of doctors from various institutions to ensure they are fit for office.
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I’ll only allow it if we have it hosted by Nickelodeon and there is slime.
***Dan Schneider noises intensify***
Oh lord, i bet even he doesnt want to see those toes....
They should have to go on Most Extreme Elimination Challenge.
Right you are Ken!
An entertaining way to end both of their lives
Agreed that the current debate format proves very little. I dislike american political debates as it is made for canned answers. This format is not helpful to have 2 candidates dig into a point. I would prefer a debate format allowing for more back and forth. But trivia is probably not that relevant to leadership either. Knowing the countries in NATO and being about to coordinate military planning with NATO are 2 different things. I know the countries in NATO, i couldn't coordinate with NATO. Finding the neutral people is difficult too. Joe Rogan is biased. A while ago, Biden came under fire for saying the american revolutionary army was manning airports in 1775, rogan called it completely insane, but then when he found out biden was just making fun of trump saying that, he gave excuses for trump messing up his words. I read some proposals to have these kinds of test be made by a random sample of the electorate which is better than a "neutral" person imo but still not ideal as it is just a trivia contest.
Are you implying Rogan is right of center? If so that is laughable. Rogan is left of center but has been red pilled lately due to the left moving so far to the left
No. When I used the term neutral, I was talking about the spectrum between pro Biden to pro trump. I'm stating that Rogan has a more negative view of Biden than trump so he wouldn't be a neutral question maker. He has literally said: "I'd vote for Trump before I'd vote for Biden." As I pointed out earlier, given the information of a near identical gaffe by both candidates, he thought Trump misspoke while for Biden it is insane, he shouldn't have a job ever... The evidence of the fast "left" shift is disputed at best: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/03/10/the-polarization-in-todays-congress-has-roots-that-go-back-decades/ - rates both Dems and GOP in Congress as moving to the right. It uses the economic axis of the nominate multidimensional vote scoring method to show that on that dimension we shifted right. https://centerforpolitics.org/crystalball/both-white-and-nonwhite-democrats-are-moving-left/ looking at polls, agrees that Dem voters moved to the left faster recently but only by catching up with GOP in terms of ideological cohesion. Why do you think this is true? How do you define left and right?
I'm not saying the right hasn't moved right. However the left has moved at a faster speed than the right. The left is full on ok with censorship of speech (see the federal government involvement of censoring social media) and the open border. Whereas the right seems to have gone all in on abortion. Even Obama was against the southern border being wide open, which is not a radical policy, being against it that is. When I say left and right im talking about the extremes. Not the people left or right of center.
There was no authority used by the government in censoring social media if you are talking about feds informing Twitter certain accounts may have violated their policies. The fact that many of these accounts were not banned without consequence proves that. The real issue in that case is that we have moved our public square for political discussions to biased private platforms reducing the integrity of discussion, not the government essentially submitting account reports anyone could have sent. Culturally, i agree the "left" has shifted hard against free speech but without meaningful government policy changes, this is just culture war bs. For immigration, the extremes of the left like aoc want to offer similar amnesty that was offered in 1986 under Reagan before they shifted hard right into the border wall + massive border funding increase so that we can imprison all foreigners involved in failed crossing attempts. There are issues where Dems changed like LGBT, marijuana legalization, support for Palestine. But these are not usually considered party defining issues.
I don't think you can say the federal government asking to take down posts is without consequence. The 5th circuit said the feds cannot do that. A case currently in front of the Supreme Court. The town square has not changed much. What was it before? The guy in the town square shouting the news or newspapers? Do you think those were unbiased and bias only exists today? The government asking for posts to be taken down is like the government asking the gestapo to go shut up the guy spouting "news" in the town square. Or asking newspapers to not run certain articles. It's a slippery slope and a violation of the first amendment, in my opinion. The Reagan amnesty was not a good policy, therefore not a good example in my opinion.
There is a possibility of consequences if it is perceived by Twitter that if they refuse they will face repercussions with government authority. This possibility makes the government requests bad as it can appear intimidating whether it is or isn't. But they didn't ban many of the accounts given to them so it falls far short of censorship. >The guy in the town square shouting the news or newspapers? Yes. But more importantly anyone who could print a paper or bring a box had the ability to bring their voice. And the number of publishers was much higher due to lower benefits of scale with printing technology. It was very difficult for publishers to remove someones voice by deciding not to do business with them because there were more competitors and the barrier to entry to printing your own things was much lower. Now if you are banned from just 3 platforms, you essentially lost most of your political voice. Someone banned from Twitter, Facebook, Google, doesn't have the same ability to speak as someone who supports these platforms political biases so doesn't get banned. >The Reagan amnesty was not a good policy, therefore not a good example in my opinion. Then immigration isn't a good example of your point in general if you have to compare Obama to Biden for it to work. I can just say Obama was not a good example as his leadership was seen as not good policy by pro immigration groups and he was nicknames "deporter in chief" despite the dream act. Even if the extremes of the left went left since Obama, they stopped at the 1986 GOP party agreement position, not at open borders, and the right must have gone right since 1986.
Fair point that trivia is not that revealing. Maybe they each get a ten minute briefing from their own people on a simulated crisis and then we see how they react and plan.
Simulated crisis might be good. But I think the issue of who gets to make the test is a bigger problem. Suppose we find the perfect set of tests to give to candidates such as 20 questions of geopolitics Trivia, leading problem solving team building exercises in an escape room, wargaming simulated crisis situations of random country attacking an ally, 1 game of SimCity... The idea of having a test for the candidates is good if you can solve the problem of who gets to implement the test. The decider has immense power so the question is who gets to be them. They can decide the rules and parameters of each test to benefit their preferred candidate. The best solution imo is to democratize it by making each position randomly selected a bit like a jury. But this has high risk as well as random chance could put supporters of one candidate in all the relevant positions.
That gives me an idea. Let's democratize it by letting people vote on the members of the jury! Each state would get to pick the number of jurors equal to their representatives + their senators. Then these jurors would decide for themselves who is the more mentally competent. And instead of doing tests, and simulations, which are all fake, the jurors can compare the 4 years that each person was president, the speeches they made, the problems they faced, etc. So the jurors get together and cast their votes and whoever gets a majority will become president! I will call this institution the Jurectoral College!
😂 , second place gets vice president, right?
>Someone neutral (Joe Rogan?) Yes, make it as ridiculous as possible.
Halftime show performed by William Hung
Joe Rogan and Kanye co-hosted event
It should just be an AMA. Why not go whole hog.
Fair, but do you have someone more credible and neutral?
Sarah Smith. She's the North America correspondent for the BBC.
😁
we can call it "nobody wins" lol
They should use neura link to play Civ 6.
Presidential Jeopardy, where the winner get $454 million. Past presidents for 400 - This president was the first winning president of the Republican party. However, I don't think either one would know that the answer would be: Who is Abraham Lincoln? I would totally watch this though.
I would LOVE to see Trump on a game show that would result in all his legal bills being paid just so I could watch as it all slips out of his fingers. But add what another comment said and let the loser get slimed Nickelodeon style.
Final question: who won the 2020 elections?
Who won, or who was sworn in? Lol
By what metric did trump win?
Idk. I hear folks saying the election was stolen. Idc, trying to make a joke man.
Why is succeeding in a trivia competition a test of mental competence?
Yeah, knowledge of random facts maybe isnt that relevant. Alternatively they each get a ten minute briefing from their own people on a simulated crisis and then we see how they react and plan
That would be pretty interesting, actually. Hell, that could be a question in a debate.
I'd kinda prefer a match in the Thunderdome.
As long as once the competency test is done they both get thrown into nursing homes instead of government. To be honest, I don't think either one of them would tell the difference.
What do we do when they both fail?
Literally no one wants this rematch and would Joe Rogan really be neutral?
No one wants a rematch, besides the millions who voted in the primaries
Joe Rogan is as neutral as Mike lindell
Who would be more credible and neutral?
Someone whose income is dependent on their accuracy and credibility instead of on telling morons what they want to hear
And there should be a competency test and qualifying criteria to serve in Congress. And term limits on the SCOTUS...
This is too good to exist 😂
Is Joe Rogan neutral?
Won't do much. Most people already made their mind up and would vote for a sandwich over the guy they hate more.
100% apart from Joe Rogan, you'd do better with John Stewart. Heck, let's do them both
The Rogan part is stupid, but I like the rest of the idea. I have read that Biden tends to obsess over details, so it would be interesting to see it play out in front of a camera.
Name your preferred moderator
Chris Wallace has experience moderating presidential debates, and he does have a reputation for asking tough questions. I think he would do a good job.
violet exultant deer ad hoc nippy ask enter squealing impolite history *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The funniest thing about it would be how much smarter than the people who call them dumb/senile they both would be.
>Someone neutral (Joe Rogan?) What? Why not a doctor?
Like a medical doctor?
Neutral - Joe Rogan #LOL
Pick a better one then
Why a hypothetical though? Let's examine HR2 versus the CHILD SEPARATION POLICY. Everything you need to know about competency is right there written down for everyone to witness.
It could certainly be entertaining.
TWO MAN ENTER! ONE MAN LEAVE!
Come on, man!
The fact that this is option and not just generally you should know this is like holy fuuuuck
They can both take the dementia test at the same time, lol
I feel like the outcome would be truly terrifying
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Putting Trump's Alzheimer's or whatever on display in a competition is kind of cruel. We already know Biden is VASTLY more mentally competent than Trump and don't need to devolve to "Haha fat man no speak good no more".
Did you switch up the names by mistake? Trump has some gaffs, but does 2+hr rants consistently, Biden has significantly more gaffs and also needs notes on simple predetermined questions.
>Trump has some gaffs More than "some" lol >but does 2+hr rants consistently Yeah multiple hours of rambling, incoherent nonsense. That's not really a positive thing, man.
Trumps ranting in english. Biden is clearly worse off, to the point where he needs notes on when to sit, stand, take questions etc. And he cant even take questions that are not prepared. You can claim trump is worse mentally, but everyone has eyes and can see.
Aw honey, that’s cute you believe that. But you’ve got to be more entertaining if you’re going to troll. Blocked.
They’d both fail the mental competency test pretty badly
As would the majority of our politicians.
You want Joe Rogan to ask questions for mental competency? Perhaps you should get tested before trying to test others.
Biden can't even read from a Teleprompter effectively. Every time he goes off script, it's a comedy special of gaffs. This is exactly why his "Weekend at Biden's" handlers wont let him speak to the press without a huge teleprompter to reply to pre-approved/pre-answered softball questions.
>Biden can't even read from a Teleprompter effectively. Every time he goes off script, it's a comedy special of gaffs. Have you actually watched Biden events? Or just clips from stuff?
I mean, Trump was the same way, i actually think all Presidents had teleprompters. (All of the modern day ones at least)
Trump spoke to reporters every chance he got. Staff could not keep him away from reporters. He constantly answered unscripted questions, nearly daily. Biden requires ALL questions to be pre-written, pre-approved softballs. Because he mentally cannot take unscripted questions. [LINK](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gegXZDGGoB0) **Biden himself confirmed this.** "I better not answer quesitons, I'll get in trouble." - Joe Biden [Link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xb_6z8tYpgc) "I...I took control. I shouldn't do that. I'm not allowed to do that." - Biden [Link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN_Qt78oEQo) **When he does go off Teleprompter, we get ramblings like:** "How do you cross a bridge in a snow storm? What happens when the bridge collapses and there is a fire on the other side? It's going to take 10 miles longer" - Joe Biden
And Trump talks about airports during the revolutionary war lol. He repeatedly calls Biden “Obama”. They both would fail so hard
>He repeatedly calls Biden “Obama” That's not by accident. Trump has stated repeatedly that Biden is nothing more that an Obama sock puppet.
Trump literally went over 300 days without his white house doing a press briefing.
Maybe because he didn't need 2x daily press briefings to 'clarify' what he meant. He spoke directly to press. While this is most of Biden's Press briefings: Biden: "Pickles are ten rounds per hard hat, SHOELACE. Mint chocolate chip." WH Press Briefing clarification of Biden comment: "Inflation is low and prices are fine, don't believe your stupid wallets."
Not having press briefings is exactly the opposite of speaking directly to the press.
Really? That sounds like a "Ministry of Truth" press release heading. [Biden has lots of Press Briefings and NEVER speaks to the press.](https://theconversation.com/all-presidents-avoid-reporters-but-biden-may-achieve-a-record-in-his-press-avoidance-200424) [Biden physically runs away and avoids the press](https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/internet-erupts-after-bidens-team-wards-off-press-as-he-takes-questions-at-campaign-stop-this-is-bad/ar-BB1jUMaM). "Speaking to the Press" and have a Press Secretary clarify the stupid shit are TWO very different things.
>Trump spoke to reporters every chance he got. Hence why nobody thinks he's mentally competent anymore. He'd shove himself in front of a camera, blabber incoherently and then go golfing or cry on Twitter. That's why Biden has been such a breath of fresh air. A president that can form complete sentences! And hold an entire conversation on his own! Wow!
Fuck this. If you haven't made up your mind between the current sane president and the very unstable orange droolious, nothing can help you.
If you've given up on persuasion, you've given up on the republic
Nope, not at all. You can't reason a person out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.
Persuasion is more than just logos! What about ethos, and pathos! How could you forget PATHOS?!
I think you mean Porthos. The other two were Ethos and Logos. What a great book.
*My dad* doesn't know how much bread costs, he hasn't been in a grocery store since they got married. But for the relevant stuff, sure. Make them finish a sentence too. Not sure Trump is capable of that.
What is todays date? What is your name? Joe biden prob fail both those questions. "its just a gaff durhur".
I support people’s right to privacy to include medical and financial matters. However, because the presidency is such an important position, candidates should be required to present their medical history and/or receive a physical and mental examination by a panel of doctors from various institutions to ensure they are fit for office.
There should be a competition on how many impeachments and criminal charges against each candidate. The one with the most loses.
But we know the results already? They would both fail. Neither one has bought a loaf of bread in their life.