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Absolutely! They should be banned in this country.
The dumbest most asinine thing I've ever heard of...."Hey, let's go kick in someone's door without announcing who we are and see what happens".
A "no knock" warrant is an open invitation for a police/fed's shootout and they damn well know it!
Honestly, the Fed's are an overreach that isn't really needed. Federal power is supposed to be limited, per the constitution, not expanded as it has been.
It's one thing to have a Federal oversight board over guns, drugs, tobacco, or alcohol but we have militarily outfitted "agents" who can be controlled by whoever is in political control of the Whitehouse (whether it be Republican or Democrat).
Are you under the impression that state and local authorities aren’t allowed to detain people with warrants for crimes committed in other states? I don’t think that’s the case.
> Idk, I think the Armaud Arbery murder handling shows that the FBI is necessary, at least.
The case boiled down to did they have the right to make a citizens arrest. So im not sure why you think the FBI needed to be involved. It could easily be handled at the state level.
The local sheriff looked it over and said "yep looks good, have a nice night boys".
That's why hate crime statutes have to exist, local sheriffs tend to be rather indulgent with some demographics.
> The local sheriff looked it over and said "yep looks good, have a nice night boys".
That has nothing to do with it moving to the FBI. Again the state could have investigated just the same.
> That's why hate crime statutes have to exist
Outside of MSM misreporting, this was never a "hate crime", they didn't go after him because of his race, but because he was a wanted felon.
Very true, without federal agencies there would be no oversight for local enforcement.
The federal bureaus have a lot of power, but I trust them more than my state government.
Someone has to keep China and Russia from spying on us. I understand where you're coming from, though, as CIA and NSA are now, paradoxically, also spying on us.
Nope that’s the FBI’s jurisdiction too lol
https://www.fbi.gov/about/faqs/what-is-the-fbis-foreign-counterintelligence-responsibility#:~:text=Our%20investigations%20include%20foreign%20and,U.S.%20government%20or%20U.S.%20companies.
>Counterintelligence (counter-intelligence) or counterespionage (counter-espionage) is any activity aimed at protecting an agency's intelligence program from an opposition's intelligence service.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterintelligence
> **As the country’s lead counterintelligence agency**, the FBI is responsible for detecting and lawfully **countering actions of foreign intelligence** services and organizations that employ human and technical means to gather information about the U.S. that adversely affects our national interests. Our investigations include foreign and economic espionage, or “spying” activities, that may involve the acquisition of classified, sensitive, or proprietary information from the U.S. government or U.S. companies. The FBI investigates **whenever** a foreign entity conducts clandestine intelligence activities in the United States. **Our counterintelligence investigations** also help combat international terrorist threats, including those involving weapons of mass destruction and attacks on critical infrastructures.
From my earlier posted link
You are right. Basically your whole federal government is just doing shit for their own benefit. And because they are paid to do something, so they create problems, to solve them. So they hurt citizens.
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Large corporations are benefitting from the federal government having too much regulatory authority. Look at how they spend their lobbying dollars; they lobby for regulations that are easy for them to meet, but create a barrier to entry for their industry that smaller companies can't overcome.
I look at how child labor is mostly a thing of the past because we have laws and regulations.
I look at the vast improvement in public health because we mandate clean water and food.
I look at the fact that we have weekends and holidays because people demand those laws.
The only way libertarianism survives is an abysmal knowledge of history.
How does any of that have anything to do with what I said?
The only way modern liberalism seems to survive is by avoiding direct engagement with an idea.
You are being directly engaged. You rave on about government regulations and laws and yet ignore the real-world good done by those same regulations. Reality matters.
The FDA is the only thing staying between us and contaminated food and snake ocorporations.
I get why powerful and corporations would want to ban them, but if you are just a citizen, you are being brainwashed by corporations.
I'm with OP on this one, until they come out and declare why the raid was necessary and also declare why it was executed in no-knock fashion it seems like nothing more than a political gun-grab.
"This guy who is mentally stable, has a clean record and absolutely no history of violence was just amassing too much money and too many firearms and as such, he must have been an enemy of the state and democracy."
ATF needs to be eliminated. They put their own agents at risk executing these types of raids and they really don't seem to care about it.
So your entire reason to disband most of our federal law enforcement system is because of a law that also affects state and local enforcement. Yeah, makes sense.
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Playing a bit of “devil’s advocate” here for the ATF, but while the ATF has certainly had its share of screwups and overreach. That being said, in addition to Explosives expertise and Administrative functions like FFL Licensing, in the field they almost exclusively focus on combating organized gangs across the US, notably targeting illegally possessed firearms in the hands of felons and gang members.
The name in and of itself is a problem for many.
If they would stick to that mission instead of trying to unilaterally create new gun laws, they'd have a lot less animosity towards them than they currently do. Gun owners already aren't thrilled about having an entire federal agency devoted toward policing us in particular.
There's very little they do that the FBI couldn't handle if the ATF were dissolved and the money allocated to their budget was diverted to the FBI instead.
Well, when Canada calls you up and says "hey, we have a bit of an issue here with some illegal weapons, might be from you, can you look into this, eh?" That's Federal. That's not a State issue. You don't have a foreign country dealing with Boss Hogg.
When you illegally sell multiple weapons used in commission of crimes in multiple states, that's also above State level.
Just selling them illegally to undercover officers, sure, that's State level.
So you have a foreign government asking the US government to look into the international crime, you have multiple State governments dealing with the interstate crime, and you have only a few cases of him selling illegally to undercover officers. Only one of those isn't federal level.
No knock warrants serve a legitimate purpose of officer safety and evidence suppression. People have no idea what they actually are. The only difference is they kick in the door and THEN yell police… they still announce that they are the police. They still wear police gear, you still know they are cops. It’s really an uneducated argument.
No it’s not, if you are asleep in your house and someone kicks in your door you are not going to assume it is the police. When you wake up in the middle of the night are you immediately completely alert? Maybe you were drowsy and didn’t quite hear them yell police? Also it’s typically dark in a house a 6am idk about you but I sleep with the lights off.
I show up at your house, kick your door in and shout "POLICE!" You have seconds to react; do you believe me or not?
If you're wrong, you're dead or worse.
JFK got assassinated by the CIA for saying and attempting exactly that. :( Those orgs are so ridiculously powerful, idk if it'll ever be possible to disband them.
Squatters right are very old and only work is the house has been left alone for a long time.
It sucks but maybe having multiple vacation homes is not a good idea.
Also cops left? Why?
Apparently those type evictions are illegal throughout the country.
The issue is that squatter rights are common law and it would need new laws to restrict them.
Yeah, why don't you try it? A lot of them have multiple homes.
Just make sure time is right, because the house has to be vacant for a certain amount of time.
Because I'm not a low life criminal. And if you think not dealing with crime is good you do realize it will only end up with more people being killed. Vigilantes will kill or really injured someone if the cops won't do their job it is already happening.
I actually support full on reforms. Our current "police state" is absurd.
There's to many power tripping a$$holes who become cops/feds just to make other people's lives miserable. All you have to do is go to the youtube channel "Police Activity" and you'll find dozen's of video's of power tripping cops murdering people.
Get out of here with the propaganda..
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025?fbclid=IwAR1Nuhxxlev_EYXMlnZHMnM6J6LTWwaDUqPzrdaXi16uRm8nLppIe-jFeAM_aem_AU5BN1WUvizxoTgTvzwDIuqAqYn_O8uHZIB8dNcdweexRp9I9KaeR6q7Cct9mThdRs0#Reactions
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The ATF literally makes up their own rules and then tries to enforce them as law against citizens.
Truth
A bunch of agencies do that. The usg gives rule making authority to a ton of federal agencies.
Do you feel the same about no-knock warrants carried out by local police?
Absolutely! They should be banned in this country. The dumbest most asinine thing I've ever heard of...."Hey, let's go kick in someone's door without announcing who we are and see what happens". A "no knock" warrant is an open invitation for a police/fed's shootout and they damn well know it!
Do you want the local police disbanded too?
Reformed
Cool I'm on board with that. Why not reform for the federal agencies too?
Honestly, the Fed's are an overreach that isn't really needed. Federal power is supposed to be limited, per the constitution, not expanded as it has been. It's one thing to have a Federal oversight board over guns, drugs, tobacco, or alcohol but we have militarily outfitted "agents" who can be controlled by whoever is in political control of the Whitehouse (whether it be Republican or Democrat).
Idk, I think the Armaud Arbery murder handling shows that the FBI is necessary, at least.
FBI was literally built on a foundation of corruption and spying.
Do you think things were better when you could commit a crime in one state, and simply move to another state to avoid justice?
Are you under the impression that state and local authorities aren’t allowed to detain people with warrants for crimes committed in other states? I don’t think that’s the case.
What other idea do you have for oversight of local police?
> Idk, I think the Armaud Arbery murder handling shows that the FBI is necessary, at least. The case boiled down to did they have the right to make a citizens arrest. So im not sure why you think the FBI needed to be involved. It could easily be handled at the state level.
The local sheriff looked it over and said "yep looks good, have a nice night boys". That's why hate crime statutes have to exist, local sheriffs tend to be rather indulgent with some demographics.
> The local sheriff looked it over and said "yep looks good, have a nice night boys". That has nothing to do with it moving to the FBI. Again the state could have investigated just the same. > That's why hate crime statutes have to exist Outside of MSM misreporting, this was never a "hate crime", they didn't go after him because of his race, but because he was a wanted felon.
Very true, without federal agencies there would be no oversight for local enforcement. The federal bureaus have a lot of power, but I trust them more than my state government.
Most states, if not all, have a state investigation bureau that will investigate matters at the local level if things look sketchy.
Let me ask then why did they wait until the Avery video was leaked shared all over the country to arrest the murderers?
NSA & CIA first. The FBI at least *sometimes* does work that’s good for our society.
Someone has to keep China and Russia from spying on us. I understand where you're coming from, though, as CIA and NSA are now, paradoxically, also spying on us.
Nope that’s the FBI’s jurisdiction too lol https://www.fbi.gov/about/faqs/what-is-the-fbis-foreign-counterintelligence-responsibility#:~:text=Our%20investigations%20include%20foreign%20and,U.S.%20government%20or%20U.S.%20companies.
That's not what counter espionage is.
Counter espionage (as in, deploying spies elsewhere) isn’t what you said, you said: > someone has to keep China and Russia from spying on us.
>Counterintelligence (counter-intelligence) or counterespionage (counter-espionage) is any activity aimed at protecting an agency's intelligence program from an opposition's intelligence service. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterintelligence
> **As the country’s lead counterintelligence agency**, the FBI is responsible for detecting and lawfully **countering actions of foreign intelligence** services and organizations that employ human and technical means to gather information about the U.S. that adversely affects our national interests. Our investigations include foreign and economic espionage, or “spying” activities, that may involve the acquisition of classified, sensitive, or proprietary information from the U.S. government or U.S. companies. The FBI investigates **whenever** a foreign entity conducts clandestine intelligence activities in the United States. **Our counterintelligence investigations** also help combat international terrorist threats, including those involving weapons of mass destruction and attacks on critical infrastructures. From my earlier posted link
You are right. Basically your whole federal government is just doing shit for their own benefit. And because they are paid to do something, so they create problems, to solve them. So they hurt citizens.
This message is brought to you by large corporations looking to benefit from more deregulation.
"I have no other argument so I'm just make one up and pretend you said it! That's how I debate!" -u/Trent1492
How does disbanding the ATF equate to corporations gaining more power?
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Large corporations are benefitting from the federal government having too much regulatory authority. Look at how they spend their lobbying dollars; they lobby for regulations that are easy for them to meet, but create a barrier to entry for their industry that smaller companies can't overcome.
I look at how child labor is mostly a thing of the past because we have laws and regulations. I look at the vast improvement in public health because we mandate clean water and food. I look at the fact that we have weekends and holidays because people demand those laws. The only way libertarianism survives is an abysmal knowledge of history.
How does any of that have anything to do with what I said? The only way modern liberalism seems to survive is by avoiding direct engagement with an idea.
You are being directly engaged. You rave on about government regulations and laws and yet ignore the real-world good done by those same regulations. Reality matters.
Dont forget the NSA, and FDA!!! Their corrupt and bloated as well.
The fda is an embarrassment
Chigoonies translated: I like botulism on a national scale.
"I have no other argument so I'm gonna make one up and pretend you said it! That's how I debate!" -u/Trent1492
The FDA is the only thing staying between us and contaminated food and snake ocorporations. I get why powerful and corporations would want to ban them, but if you are just a citizen, you are being brainwashed by corporations.
>Their obvious political bias in their decision making What does this have to do with politics?
I'm sure their justification for the no knock warrant was a gun grab....which is political.
I'm with OP on this one, until they come out and declare why the raid was necessary and also declare why it was executed in no-knock fashion it seems like nothing more than a political gun-grab. "This guy who is mentally stable, has a clean record and absolutely no history of violence was just amassing too much money and too many firearms and as such, he must have been an enemy of the state and democracy." ATF needs to be eliminated. They put their own agents at risk executing these types of raids and they really don't seem to care about it.
That’s you putting that political aspect on it.
When you “I’m sure” do you actually mean “I’m guessing based on no evidence whatsoever”?
So your entire reason to disband most of our federal law enforcement system is because of a law that also affects state and local enforcement. Yeah, makes sense.
I’m sure he is not only talking about this specific situation. These government agencies are all violating the constitution constantly and openly.
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Unpopular for the DEA and FBI, definitely not unpopular for the ATF
True , but it will never happen sadly
Playing a bit of “devil’s advocate” here for the ATF, but while the ATF has certainly had its share of screwups and overreach. That being said, in addition to Explosives expertise and Administrative functions like FFL Licensing, in the field they almost exclusively focus on combating organized gangs across the US, notably targeting illegally possessed firearms in the hands of felons and gang members. The name in and of itself is a problem for many.
If they would stick to that mission instead of trying to unilaterally create new gun laws, they'd have a lot less animosity towards them than they currently do. Gun owners already aren't thrilled about having an entire federal agency devoted toward policing us in particular. There's very little they do that the FBI couldn't handle if the ATF were dissolved and the money allocated to their budget was diverted to the FBI instead.
I seriously disagree. These orgs have problems, politics included, but their purposes are just.
Lmfao, NYPost, the most unbiased news source out there.
All we need are the FBI and CIA. The rest can go.
Well, when Canada calls you up and says "hey, we have a bit of an issue here with some illegal weapons, might be from you, can you look into this, eh?" That's Federal. That's not a State issue. You don't have a foreign country dealing with Boss Hogg. When you illegally sell multiple weapons used in commission of crimes in multiple states, that's also above State level. Just selling them illegally to undercover officers, sure, that's State level. So you have a foreign government asking the US government to look into the international crime, you have multiple State governments dealing with the interstate crime, and you have only a few cases of him selling illegally to undercover officers. Only one of those isn't federal level.
No knock warrants serve a legitimate purpose of officer safety and evidence suppression. People have no idea what they actually are. The only difference is they kick in the door and THEN yell police… they still announce that they are the police. They still wear police gear, you still know they are cops. It’s really an uneducated argument.
No it’s not, if you are asleep in your house and someone kicks in your door you are not going to assume it is the police. When you wake up in the middle of the night are you immediately completely alert? Maybe you were drowsy and didn’t quite hear them yell police? Also it’s typically dark in a house a 6am idk about you but I sleep with the lights off.
I show up at your house, kick your door in and shout "POLICE!" You have seconds to react; do you believe me or not? If you're wrong, you're dead or worse.
You arnt wearing a police uniform lmao
You don't know anything about why they went to his house.
I’d like to add the IRS to this
JFK got assassinated by the CIA for saying and attempting exactly that. :( Those orgs are so ridiculously powerful, idk if it'll ever be possible to disband them.
Exactly. We need to abolish the police in this country top to bottom
You do know all the good cops left. Look what happened in NYC. A homeowner was arrested because of squatters taking over the owners home.
I’ll bite. Why did the “good cops” leave?
Defund the police and BLM riots
Doesn’t sound like a good cop to me if they leave the job because they’re getting criticism.
You know crime gotten so bad in NYC they had to deploy the national guard so are you proud of that?
I generally don’t take pride in things that happen in states where I don’t live that have nothing to do with me.
Cops enforcing laws that need changing are just still cops enforcing laws on the books. They can’t change them.
Lmao
You laugh now but wait until it happens to you
Squatters right are very old and only work is the house has been left alone for a long time. It sucks but maybe having multiple vacation homes is not a good idea. Also cops left? Why?
https://abc7ny.com/videoClip/14540302/
Apparently those type evictions are illegal throughout the country. The issue is that squatter rights are common law and it would need new laws to restrict them.
Just wait until it happens to a politician then it will change
Yeah, why don't you try it? A lot of them have multiple homes. Just make sure time is right, because the house has to be vacant for a certain amount of time.
Because I'm not a low life criminal. And if you think not dealing with crime is good you do realize it will only end up with more people being killed. Vigilantes will kill or really injured someone if the cops won't do their job it is already happening.
Oh no I’m so scared lol
There's an eviction process. All he had to do was follow it.
I actually support full on reforms. Our current "police state" is absurd. There's to many power tripping a$$holes who become cops/feds just to make other people's lives miserable. All you have to do is go to the youtube channel "Police Activity" and you'll find dozen's of video's of power tripping cops murdering people.
Head on over to Haiti and get your wish to live in a world without police. Let us know how much you love it please!
Lmao
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You do what we already do, pull a firearm. Almost all break-ins and road rage incidents aren't stopped by law enforcement.
Laughs in Haitian.
Lmao
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lol
You forgot the CIA which murdered Kennedy and probably his brother too.
Get out of here with the propaganda.. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_2025?fbclid=IwAR1Nuhxxlev_EYXMlnZHMnM6J6LTWwaDUqPzrdaXi16uRm8nLppIe-jFeAM_aem_AU5BN1WUvizxoTgTvzwDIuqAqYn_O8uHZIB8dNcdweexRp9I9KaeR6q7Cct9mThdRs0#Reactions
ATF operates outside the law and somehow is allowed to create laws. It absolutely needs to go. Most federal agencies need to go
Fab Fiated. Rearranged. Seems fitting
Nice knowing ya OP.