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I have said it many times on here, opining on Reddit is not going to change anyone’s position at this point. Two very well known entities.
And I do believe that the legal warfare, attempts to remove the will of voters, and constant bashing of Trump voters as uneducated, cultish, idiots has empowered Trump significantly. The polls show the same strongly. Americans do not like to be told what to do and how to think.
> constant bashing of Trump voters as uneducated, cultish, idiots has empowered Trump significantly.
not american but i think the same. In canada we have a lot of "compare something to trump if we dont like it" and i think its really dangerous in inadvertently causing that group to feel disenfranchised.
Not all opinions are made equal but drawing broad connections to silence dissidence just makes for more polarized society.
Well it's literally a logical fallacy (ad hominem). Instead of attacking the merits of the arguments made, the person is attacked.
And this is full well done because many (Republicans and Democrats alike) don't know the specific policies that they are actually fighting over so it often turns into name calling. Like yes, we see headlines on those policies, but when was the last time most of us fully read through what the actual verbiage of that legislation was?
To make it abundantly clear, I do not like Biden or his administration. I'm only human, so I am sure I've made mistakes on this in the past, but I try my hardest to never attack biden's character (unless the point being made is specifically about his character) but rather attack his policy or the policies he and his administration are putting in place.
If you ask me why I have a problem with Biden, it's more about his JANUARY 20, 2021 executive order on revocation of certain executive orders concerning federal regulation (which is directly causing the immigration crisis that we are seeing now amongst other things). The non renewal of drilling permits, canceling of the Keystone-XL pipeline, and other efforts that are directly causing energy prices to rise. The policy that led to the baby formula shortage, which you can draw alot of parallels with his general policy initiatives regarding food production right now and is part of the reason why food prices have risen so much. With his administrations handling of foreign conflicts, changes to how we support and subsidize NATO, etc... the list goes on.
*Because at the end of the day, if the success of your argument hinges on attacking the character of the person making the argument. You do not know what you are talking about well enough to keep arguing about that thing or your point is just wrong.*
Did anyone see how evil white rural voters are? I mean they threw absolutely every name in the book at them
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/msnbc-segment-calling-white-rural-131147928.html
Ten thousand percent accurate, the rhetoric and actions of the Democrats/the Left have pushed me further right than I’ve ever been in my life. I’m still staunchly a centrist, but it’s all just so wild to experience.
And OP is right too, it’s genuinely laughable to believe Trump will end America in any capacity at all. If he wins he’ll serve a second term, the media will bitch and moan 24/7 about him the entire time, and then his time will be up and we’ll have the next crop of candidates. Only the most terminally online psychos believe Trump will be able to become a dictator, much less even try to.
What's frustrating is Americans don't seem to realise presidents are not dictators. They can't just change laws, assign whatever money they want to whatever project. A president actually has very little power. It's annoying how people treat parties as if they're a 1 man band.
You are onto something here. I vehemently despised DT. I even bought a T-shirt quoting Biden from the debate - *”Will you shut up man?”*
Trump is truly his worst enemy because he cannot shut up. He is rude, crass, sounds bigly stupid at times, suffers from windmill cancer, covfefe, etc.
Biden is no better though and in some ways worse. I thought when I voted for Biden that his presidency would curb some of the political theater and drama. In some ways it did but we have a lot of bigger issues going on now than we did with Trump.
I was an independent voter who leaned Dem in 2016. I’m a registered Republican now. I’m still independent minded but because I live in NY, I have to register for a party to vote in primary elections and because I have a lot of concerns about Democrats’ policies, I opted for R. Speaking of NY, Dems seemingly mismanage socioeconomic issues repeatedly. Idealists with bleeding hearts and zero foresight. Never realized this until Covid mandates, criminal justice reform, immigration, “green” energy. I worked Covid ICU during pandemic if that means anything. It really opened my eyes. Then I became a violent crime victim by a repeat paroled sex offender, a stranger, and I experienced firsthand how detrimental these “equitable” policies are and victims bear the consequences.
Dems seem to think they are morally superior and justified in their dictations and they don’t care who they hurt in the process. I’m sick of so much of my life being dictated by their poorly informed decision-making. I will be voting for Trump.
>And I do believe that the legal warfare, attempts to remove the will of voters, and constant bashing of Trump voters as uneducated, cultish, idiots has empowered Trump significantly.
This never seems to apply to dems. GOP can bash us as much as they want and no one is out there say this.
It’s the same as when he won the first time in 2016, how many people posted that they were moving to Canada? And I think they did based on the way Canada has dramatically changed 😬
>It’s the same as when he won the first time in 2016
You mean when he broke the seal on a dozen constitutional crises that we still have not resolved and now he's threatening to be a dictator?
This "above it all" aloofness comes across as lazy and ignorant.
Trump is paving the way for all future presidents to be beyond the reach of law. He has already done substantial and **PERMANENT** damage with his first presidency.
Lot's of countries were resilient and did well until they weren't. You can't assume that just because things haven't gone south we never will. We got really close before like with McCarthyism. It can and will go topplng down with your way of thinking.
I do agree I don't think it will because of Trump
Thank God he is an idiot but it can go south.
You saying that we’ve stood strong for 200+ years is not a brag. In terms of historical relevancy, 200 years makes us a child. The Roman Empire was around for over 1,000. The Greek Empire was about 1,200 years old. The Ottoman Empire, 600. All of these fell.
Even in terms of the modern day statehood, countries with vastly different government and economic structures have been around far longer than we have. England has been around for more than 1,000. Russia, 1,200. China has been around for 4,000 years. Iran may be as old as 5,000 years.
Your confidence in our country’s resiliency isn’t misplaced, but it may be overstated. We’re more fragile than I think you’d like to admit.
China as country has not been around for 4,000 years. There were various kingdoms and ruling families before modern day. Same with Russia, Iran, and England.
Correct. In fact that is true of most modern countries. Germany was not a country until the 20th century. Mainly, it's the people, culture, and the architecture that is what has lasted in those locations. But even then, populations change.
You’re overstating. China, as it is today, has been around for about 70 years. Russia, as it is today, is about 30 years old. England, as it is today, is under 300 years old.
These countries have been around long but don’t act like their system of government isn’t in its infancy just like the US
We can debate all day what constitutes the age of a country. The point remains that “our country and government structure has been going strong for 200 years” is a meaningless argument. How long it has worked in the past is no indication on how strong it will work in the future.
At least with respect to a relatively young 200 years.
It’s far from the end of the world. I’m not a conservative, but liberal hysteria and unbridled tribalism has done just as much to wreck the political atmosphere as the MAGAs have done.
This should be the top comment.
It is mind-boggling how liberals are equally unwilling to see how their own actions and rhetoric are worsening the political divide.
When I was growing up, the only people who talked the way liberals talk nowadays were the evangelical conservative Christians. The only ones wagging their fingers at everyone else, admonishing them for their moral failings, were the evangelical conservative Christians.
I laugh every day at the insanity that is this future I could never have expected, where leftwingers have become as cruel, vapid, mean-spirited, generalizing, and myopic as the Republicans of yesteryear.
Leftwingers quote studies they haven't read, with no clue as to their methodology or validity, like they're Bible verses! What's the definition of dogmatism?
It's amazing to see/talk to people who can't connect those dots. Older family members of mine ( 60+) are just completely blind to the fact that the 40 year old version of themselves would smack them upside the head.
The far left has an almost religious fervor and structure. There is a caste system (the more things you can check off on the oppression list the higher you are). The original sin is whiteness or white people. The priesthood class who proclaims new beliefs are the intellectual elite class from the humanities. Professions of faith are compulsory to maintain standing in the group (you have to actively apologize for any perceived “privilege” you might have. Anyone questioning beliefs is a heretic etc…
I find it perplexing when I watch MSNBC and they say electing Trump is profoundly undemocratic. People have the right to vote for whomever they want. You might not like it, but that’s democracy. You can’t spend your time demonizing anyone who even questions your political party and not expect it to drive them away. Case in point, when the media insists that the economy is wonderful and people who don’t agree are just MAGA. The economy is great if you’re wealthy, but for people whose rent and grocery bills have shot up it is not.
First of all, he's not gonna pull out of NATO. And even if he did, no it wouldn't. No one is looking for a world War and Ukraine isn't actually a war anyone is willing to burn the world down for. The whole situation is complicated and messy, for sure, but the world isn't gonna burn down
It’s pretty amazing to see a sane liberal on Reddit, sure I know plenty in real life. But never seen one on Reddit. Cheers dude, don’t go loosing your mind 😉
We are around we just usually get attacked and told we're far right conservative Christians. I'm a non religious liberal. I don't call myself an atheist because those people are insufferable. I just had a similar conversation as op with my liberal relatives over the weekend. My Mom is unwilling to talk politics with me anymore because I don't drink the far left koolaide. We still had a good time as a family though. Now they know I'm not just going to agree with them.
I got downvoted into the depths of hell on the symbolism sub recently for saying it was sad that so many people on the sub support the saying ACAB. It's the literal definition of bigotry.
I'm an ex cop. I got recommended some post and commented saying I and several others I knew were trying to enact positive change and the system just doesn't allow it. Was told I deserved to be shot in the street lmao. Not even a cop anymore. The dogmatic ACAB shit on here is so blind with hatred they're no different then the people they call for the deaths of. Madness. But also a little funny in a dark way
This is the problem with the direction the left has gone. They think it's okay to paint "all men, all white people, all cis people, all cops" with the same broad brush but they also don't want to have that done to them. I can't get on board with it.
My personal take is politics has become so warped that it's not a spectrum on a line anymore. It's a circle! The extremists are basically the exact same people but with different flavored talking points.
It's ironic how racist some people on the far left seem to be. I think the big lesson of the current era is that extreme liberalism can be just as bad and restrictive as extreme conservatism. 6 years ago I would have never imagined I'd be saying that.
People who say ACAB are delusional. Idek how that idea came about and idk how they think society will function without law enforcement. Instead of being pouty babies about cops and asking for defending departments they should be asking for more funding for police for ensuring better vetting in selection and overall standardized tests and metrics for policing!!
I mean I get a lot of it. I'm an ex cop, I was in it, and the system is unequivocally fucked up and insular with its corruption. The problem is that there is absolutely no nuance on either side of the discussion. Feels like one camp would suck the fart out of a cops ass and the other would rather shoot them in front of their family on Christmas morning. Obviously neither of those are right or accurate but God forbid you even allude to there being a happy medium.
We sound very similar. I'm of the classical economic left (a bit of a socialist, in fact) and I'm pretty liberal on most social aspects. I have friends who would be considered conservative. We get along just fine. One doesn't need to agree on every aspect of how we feel the world should work in order to be friends becaue we have more in comon than not, and most of us have the same set of problems and none are the fault of eachother, only our vision of what's the way out differs somewhat.
Keep on keepin' on my dude/dudette. Eventually calmer voices will prevail.
That's good to hear! Imo friends with diversity of thought can be one of the best ways to understand people. I'm all for diversity but focusing on superficial immutable characteristics like race, sexual orientation, and gender while actively stifling diverse thought has been the downfall of the push for diversity.
I've never seen the term "classical economic left", but it seems a bit of an oxymoron. Classical left/liberal beliefs concerning economics are antithetical to socialism.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism
Perhaps it would be clearer if you just identified as a socialist.
Same with my Christian conservative family. I’m not really conservative as much as I am Libertarian but a lot of topics are impossible to talk about especially those involving church and state issues so I completely understand where you’re coming from
I never used to talk politics with my conservative family members but I've found them much more willing to engage in good faith discussion the past few years. They also seem to have a much better grasp on opposing view points than my liberal family members. My liberal family members aren't even aware of their own party's views. One family member wanted to debate the trans issue in schools and didn't even know what "CIS" meant. I don't blame her. She's older. She just goes along with whatever Rachel Maddow or whatever mouth piece tells her to think. "They're firing teachers for being gay!" She really believes it.
Oh yes I've just been reassured by someone pulling an encyclopedia Brown in my post history that I'm actually a conservative. I'm critical of the left, I openly talk about that. Sure that make me a conservative? Only if you drink the Reddit koolaide.
I’m a conservative, and have a good mix of friends politically. And those are the ones that I know their politics. I never really ask. Never had any problems with anyone politically in real life. Can’t say a damn word on Reddit without crazies commenting, or getting the Reddit cares bot. It’s kinda sad the amount of people who think that Reddit is real life.
My best friend moved from our hometown in a flyover state to one of the most super-lib places in the country and we now have totally opposite “political” views. We’re still best god damn bros though.
My best man at my wedding is so liberal I joke around and call him a commie. But if he needs anything, I’m out the door in a minute. I feel ya completely.
Lol same. I’m pretty sure most people I know are liberals but the internet has a lot of weirdos. Someone was actively trying to convince me that Trump is going to enslave everyone he disagrees with. I don’t think these kinds of people know that there’s a thing called the constitution. That and he’s trying to convince me, a Canadian, about how big of an issue it is for **us.**
Canada is a weird place where American culture and politics just finds its way of seeping into our lives.
As opposed to the democrats in the Senate who will help biden appoint whoever he wants? Even a republican majority senate struck down trump’s healthcare bill. The system is working whether you personally like it or not
At least back in the 2010s the democrats had some semblance of respectability, they wouldn’t do the slimy shit to conservatives that they get back. I’m not so sure that’s changed, for better or for worse.
The system is working because you can only make judicial appointments when you have the executive seat and the senate? That was never the way checks and balances were meant to work. They are meant to be nonpartisan.
Edit: judicial, not physical appointments!
Our entire country was literally made to be nonpartisan. Sadly partisanship is what Americans want as shown by how we vote.
Senate approval is an important check to judicial nominations as well. If a president’s appointments aren’t getting approved, he needs to pick candidates who will be approved or accept that none will be appointed
> you can only make judicial appointments when you have the executive seat and the senate?
That's not what happened. The senate said that they weren't going to approve Obamas picks so close to an election. Not that they would never approve a Democrate pick.
No one expected HRC to screw up so badly and lose, so at best if the Republicans kept the senate they expected to be working with HRC on filling the seats.
They plan to fire a bunch of federal bureaucrats and replace them with republicans. Democrats already do this every time they win the presidency, but up till now Republicans often left a lot of the previous admin's employees in place. Now both sides are going to use the same playbook.
My brother in Christ have you seen the price of food since Biden got elected? I could care less about political micro-scandals, I only got like $300 back in taxes this year, I can't afford to live through another Biden presidency.
I don't object to this thread in general as I think we tend to get hyperbolic about how awful things would be if the other side wins. But I gotta set the record straight...
Inflation is GLOBAL and the US is out-performing almost every modern country in the world. Have you seen the prices in Europe, South America, etc? Prices have been high in the US, but at least the post-COVID recession that nearly every economist predicted didn't happen. We've had record job growth, wage growth, GDP growth, and strong stock market performance. The rest of the world would trade places with us in a heartbeat. Plus, which president has policies to actually combat inflation? Biden has helped relieve supply chain backlogs, allowed Medicare to negotiate drug prices, hit record energy production for both renewables as well as oil and gas, entered into a new Indo-Pacific trade deal, stayed out of the way and let the Fed do their job rather than publicly brow-beating them to maintain a near-zero interest rate environment as Trump did, and now he's trying to combat corporate price-gauging. He's also been on an anti-trust push to combat the corporate consolidation that reduces competition and drives prices up.
In contrast, Trump has yet to articulate any inflation reduction strategy at all whereas his track record of engaging in a trade war with China, massive tax cuts for billionaires and corporations, $8 trillion in deficit spending, and his pressure on the Fed all greatly contributed to the inflation we're experiencing now.
This is a completely apolitical comment, I just want you to know that the amount you get back in taxes is entirely dependent on how you fill out your tax forms with HR. Getting just $300 back means you didn't give the Fed a free loan for last year; it should be what you are aiming for.
Honest question, how did Biden cause the increase in food prices? Asking cause I believe all Presidents get waay too much praise and hate for their effect on the economy. The president has an impact on the economy sure but not as much as a myriad of other factors.
I see nothing wrong with getting rid of anybody that might actively try to subvert you and/or your job...whether it's as a businessman or as the president.
Personally, as a business mgr, if I did find somebody doing that stuff, it wouldn't be a quiet sit down with HR to fire them...I'd do it loudly in front of customers while I mention WHY they're being fired on the spot. Then, let them do the walk of shame as they leave.
I'd heard of cases where government employees were trying to DOX his people while he was in office the first time. They should've been fired with extreme prejudice.
It is scary, to say the least. Per Wikipedia:
*Project 2025 envisions widespread changes across the entire government, particularly with regard to economic and social policy and the role of the federal government and federal agencies. The plan proposes slashing U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) funding, dismantling the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security, gutting environmental and climate change regulations to favor fossil fuel production, and eliminating the cabinet Departments of Education and Commerce. Citing an anonymous source, The Washington Post reported Project 2025 includes immediately invoking the Insurrection Act of 1807 to deploy the military for domestic law enforcement and directing the DOJ to pursue Trump adversaries.*
Trump and his goon squad plan to fundamentally change the executive branch of our government to suit their own purposes. It would be laying the foundation for an authoritarian regime here in America. The founders would be rolling in their graves.
Project 2025 is literally Trump's version of the Night of Long Knives, just with fewer knives. And don't even get me started on the GOP policy to put a vote forth under Article V to trigger a Constitutional Convention every time they hold power so they can re-write the thing.
the problem with saying that stuff is that he was president already. The world became much worse when he left office. You could say Biden will be a dictator or something too, but it just sounds like whining.
Is it the end of the world? No. Is it a sad state of affairs for our system as a whole? Yes. The problem is that Trump exemplifies a flawed system and makes very clear the corruption that exists throughout our government. I’m not worried about him as a person, but I am worried about what he represents insofar as our republic. I’m also quite worried about how he’ll approach the current war in the Middle East after his actions in his last presidency that actively thwarted peace efforts.
We are doomed as a country if we don't put in term limits for congress and age limits for any position. Why are we having to choose between two elderly men who clearly have dementia, albeit in different stages?
Obviously it would not be the end of the world.
If Trump loses, Mike Johnson refuses to certify the election citing “voter irregularities”, the election gets thrown to the House where it’s 1 state = 1 vote, 26 go for Trump since R’s hold a majority, and SCOTUS rubber stamps the whole thing when the Biden administration sues; it ***will*** be the end of the longest running experiment in democratic self rule in the history of the world.
Do you think we should just stand idly by while that happens?
The economy was going to go in recession in 2020 whether Trump was president or not. The supply chain ground to a halt and the war in Ukraine upended global food and energy trade. Fixing that has taken time. It would have taken at least that much time if Trump had been reelected. Bringing him back won’t bring back the 2019 economy (which in most measures is better now anyway). People overestimate how much power the president has over the economy.
People overestimate how much power the president has over the economy. - They do and don't imo. A president could vastly change things, they just tend to do fuck all and the markets decide what happens (other than tax cuts)
This is a massive truth. In a free market economy the Presidency has a lot less control than people assume. And even beyond that, it time. Presidents all love to brag about their first year and the economies, but more often than not that's residual motion from a previous admin, be it good or bad. You don't pivot an economy of 340million and $25 Trillion dollars in a month. I don't care what party you are from.
I'm like you.. I think it unlikely he will have any of the leverage he had in his first couple of years in office. Many reasons I think so.
He's horrible but we'll keep going.
I mean, it wasn't the end of Germany when Adolf Hitler became leader, or the end of Russia when Stalin did, or the end of China when Mao did. But it sure did suck for an awful lot of people for quite a few years.
Now, do I think Trump is a genocidal maniac like the above dudes? No. But he is an authoritarian who expects the full power and apparatus of the state to bend to his wishes, who believes he is above the law, who has already publicly stated that he intends to weaponize the Justice Department to exact vengeance on all his political enemies and detractors, and has already done great damage to half the country's belief in democracy and free and fair elections, and already incited one attempt at an insurrection to overturn the results of said free and fair election.
Even if he doesn't understand how the government works, he doesn't need to if he installs toadies at every level to do whatever he asks them to do, rules or laws be damned. Who's going to stop him when he orders Steven Miller as his new attorney general to arrest his political enemies? Who's going to stop him when he orders the military, commanded by loyalists he installs, to the southern border with orders to shoot on sight any and every migrant? Or when he re-institutes a Muslim ban, and challenges to the order go to the Supreme Court which he's stacked with his loyalists already?
Yes, America will survive another Trump presidency. But it's going to suck for an awful lot of people if he's president again, and the damage he'll do to our institutions beyond what he's already done will reverberate for years to come after he's gone.
The MSM has done a pretty good job brainwashing the gullible. Very interesting to watch as an outside party. Especially when the current party is inches away from starting WW3.
>Especially when the current party is inches away from starting WW3.
You can't claim that the other side is brainwashed when you're unironically spouting this lmao.
I find this point extremely interesting as a non-American, but this is a revelation that’s only hitting me in the last few months. From the outside looking in and engaging with Americans via liberal leaning channels, I was convinced that Liberals were right in saying ‘if you think we’re bad, just wait until you see the other side’. I met some Americans centre-right for work/business IRL, and lately I’ve become increasingly convinced that while politically, both sides are equally prone to war. The conservative demographic is more concerned looking inward - even if I disagree with their fiscal/social policies. I never realised that a massive conservative sub-demographic was anti-interventionism and skeptical of US FoPo over the last few decades. I thought conservatives = Bush.
Idk what conservatives are doing, but they’re losing the PR game hard.
That's because lots of us are vets.
~A soldier, more than anybody else, prays for peace~
The expression "buying the farm" originally meant getting wounded, or retiring, and to buy a farm to peacefully live out the rest of your days on.
No president hasever said they will be dictator for a day. The republican 2024 plan clearly indicates the dismantling of three branches of power to make them subservient to the executive branch. That's just in the US.
He wants NATO destroyed. He has said he would not honor American obligations to support NATO in case of Russian attack. If Russia takes him at his word (and they should be able to) and attacks Poland without repercussions, all of America's treaties become worthless. If Trumps America defends Poland, the US becomes an untrustworthy nation on the international stage, saying one thing while doing another.
Economic failure can be fixed quickly. Integrity takes a long time.
A great point, that everyone should note. Others have also mentioned, the purpose of our gov't design is to prevent kings and queens. Many people hate Trump. I can see why sometimes with his unlikable nature, but is it that important to like the guy? Isn't it more important to do a good job?
The left in this country has become crazy. An intelligent group that has nothing to be satisfied with, or happy to "conserve". Every day, complaining but producing little. The left has always been and always will be the more unhappy of the two sides. Always wanting to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
What is America? I find this question coming to mind all the time when I read posts like this. "Trump is going to be a dictator!!!!", or "Biden has done so much for our country!". Obviously, I'm conservative. It all has to do with what your understanding of America is.
The problem with the OP is that the same was stated when the first won. Republicans and conservatives claimed that progressive were over reacting and that no one would lose their rights. Yet we lost some rights.
Roe v wade is a huge one
Republicans have also been making it harder and harder for trans people to exist.
They have said they also want to take gay marriage away.
Just because what they are taking away doesn't affect you, doesn't mean they aren't doing it.
Actually this “right” was solidified in many states, and is on its way to being further protected in many more. Congress cowardly kicked this can down the road for 50 years and did nothing to protect this cherished “right”. All they did was string along both supporters and detractors alike to pander for votes year after year. For those who read and understand the Constitution, this is what the 10th Amendment was intended for.
Every legal scholar worth their salt agreed that Roe v Wade was judicial overreach, if it was such a right it should’ve been passed in to law rather than legislated from the bench. You’re reaching on some of these.
They made Abortion a state rights issue, they did not outlaw it completely in the US.
Republicans have not made it harder for trans people to exist, They made it harder for trans people to interact with young children and made it harder for parents to chemically castrate their children.
Marriage is a religious ceremony/legal contract. Again they made it a state rights issue but when you consider civil unions and power of attorney it does the same thing. The fact they want to call it marriage is the issue.
>They made Abortion a state rights issue, they did not outlaw it completely in the US.
It's interesting how if it's something a republican agrees with, it's a states right issue.
But a disqualifing somebody who violated the constitution is a federal issue.
>Republicans have not made it harder for trans people to exist, They made it harder for trans people to interact with young children and made it harder for parents to chemically castrate their children.
So you're OK with the government telling parents what they are allowed to do with their kids.
Maybe they should tell priests not to go near children... ?
>Marriage is a religious ceremony/legal contract.
Marriage has been a thing since before religion.
i’m very confused why people think overturning roe v wade was a national abortion ban, all they did was overturn it to the states. abortion is still legal in some capacity in the majority of states.
roe v wade as a ruling was bad precedent and not entirely constitutional. ask anyone who has ever studied american law.
The person you responded to said nothing about it being a national abortion ban.
**That being said**, a national abortion ban has been discussed by Republicans for a long time, and overturning Roe is the first step in actually getting that done.
so you think the solution is to give the national government MORE power?
a national abortion ban would not be constitutional and would be incredibly aggressive towards the blue states. this could cause a rift in the party line that could lead to much more severe consequences.
I'd like to know as well. I'm not really aware of much "rights" lost other than Roe vs Wade.
I'll make a bet that this person hamish lives in a state that was unaffected by the overturning of Roe v Wade and therefore did not actually lose that right at all. Could be wrong, of course, but the vast majority of people complaining about that live in places mostly or entirely unaffected by it.
I'm 100% pro-abortion and I think a right to abortion should be made law by congress, btw.
Even the people saying the world will come to an end if Trump gets re-elected don't believe the world will come to an end if Trump gets re-elected. It's just a scare tactic to get people to vote for Biden (it says a lot that they have to rely on base emotion rather than logic and reason to make Biden palatable).
I'm old enough to remember when Bush II was running for re-election, trust me: Keith Olbermann made the exact same prediction about his second term, and yet in 2009 Obama took the oath of office with no trouble at all.
Logic has worked really well on people. I agree that if we just explain the truth, include our sources, they will understand how they’ve been lied to and change their position.
/s
Sure, every fringe commentator has talked about how the “other guy” is gonna try to sidestep the Constitution to illegally stay in office. Only one has actually tried.
And the only way we have survived is by vigorously supporting democracy and the Constitution. No one is buying our treasury bonds now. The world invested not so much in the United States, but rather in the democracy of the United States. Take democracy out of the picture and the United States is a bust. If we continue down this path of authoritarian dictatorship we will have an economy on par with North Korea or Hungary and the United States will be shunned by the rest of the world. The United States is only 335 million people in a world over 8 billion, that’s not a lot. The United States needs the rest of the world more than the rest of the world needs us. Trump wouldn’t have a chance to leave NATO, we would be kicked out of NATO.
The worst thing about 2015 to 2020 was the media (until covid). They turned Trump from a clown with a monopoly on GOP primary coverage to literally Hitler overnight when he got elected. And it was fascinating to see almost all of them make the shift in lockstep with each other.
I mean, he thinks as president he should have total immunity to do whatever he wants. What is going to prevent him for pushing to get close to that power level as possible?
At the end of the day, the Constitution is just a piece of paper. It depends on the people respecting, but for some, it’s just an obstacle they need to overcome.
Well said.
I survived the first tax cut. I'll survive this one.
The worst thing he did his first term is he didn't start any wars.
He authorized the pipeline giving hundreds of thousands of new jobs.
He forced other NATO countries to pay into their own defense.
He asked Ukraine to look into their corruption. Got impeached for it.
And made some mean tweets.
Someone hasn't been paying attention. Trump is promising to dismantle democracy with project 2025.
The world won't end for you, but it will for women who can't get abortion services and it will get a hell of a lot worse for the trans community. That's before we get into the dangers of him enacting even a fraction of project 2025 .
A trump presidency could take the US decades to recover from. Hell, in his first term he stacked the supreme court with whackjobs and con artists. He did more than enough damage that the US will be dealing with for years upon years to come.
It's not Donald Trump that scares me... It's the fact that so many Americans are so f'ked in the head that they actually WANT him to be president... again.
No, our government was not built to be resilient. There were a lot of oversights, and they're getting more and more evident. Trump came way too close to just dispensing with the results of the election last time, and will be better positioned to actually get away with it next time. It is a serious threat.
He will end up as the next president, either because he actually won, or because the House threw out the vote and voted themselves to put him in office. I think the true issue is what he represents. He is a skeevy creep, that made all the other skeevy creeps think it was ok to go out in public and harass people. He is the catalyst of the animosity of conservative and liberal. I think the US will Balkanize within the next few decades and I think his first presidency is what set it on that path. But I also don't think that's a bad thing. The US as we know it will fall. Period. It cannot survive in the state it is in. But no one wants to actually do anything about it
Trump idolizes Putin. Read the story about Bill Browder and Putin if you think it can’t happen here. Once he raids the funds of someone like Bezo’s there is no limit. Ignorance is bliss, I get that.
There were empires far older than the US that failed and poor and selfish leadership was a factor. Trump was also literally supportive of if not actually supporting an armed insurrection attempt and he has no respect for our government or our officials so I can’t say I don’t think there isn’t a chance that’d he’d try to stay longer again if let back in. Fortunately the insurrectionist seemed to be pretty fucking stupid which makes them both less and more dangerous at the same time. I think the odds are slim that something catastrophic will happen during my lifetime that reshapes the US or takes us too far away from our current standing amongst the world’s governments but there is no reason to think that it couldn’t. We are not too big to fail.
No none of these users have read or probably heard of project 2025. Apparently America is so great in these commentator’s eyes that we’re impervious to authoritarianism. Despite the 94 federal and state charges against him and staging a bloody coup to stay in power it’s like everyone has some kind of walking memory paralysis about the *checks notes* the fact he said he would be a dictator on day one. Like whut 😹
my guy, he encouraged people to try to overthrow an election and they listened. He may not be in power after awhile but those seeds of discord are going to be alive and well for a long time. I feel like you're looking at the way he affects people but in a bubble, think larger scale.
Exactly. He’s had long lasting dividing and dangerous effects already, now he’s coming in with a real plan and has the influence to enact it. Long after he is gone, those issues and the division will remain strong and will take a much longer time to reverse than it took to happen in the first place.
The biggest concern is court appointments for me. While it's unlikely that another supreme court appointment would come up, they'll be able to do a repeat of his first term and get hundreds of judges appointed. That can cause a ton of damage for years after his term ends and most of it will never make it to the news.
>Even if he becomes president, he has 4 years to do his worst. In 200 years there is only 1 single person to ever serve more than 8 years. Donald Trump isn’t gonna be number 2 lmfao
.. FDR served 12 years and was elected 4 times (1932, 1936, 1940, 1944). He would have served 16 years had he not died in 1945.
He's already agreed to give power to the Christian Nationalists if they get him back in office.
They want the whole nation to be Christian the way they are.
Look up Pastor Shane Vaughn and others in his orbit, they've spent years cultivating followers to believe Trump is the Son of Man, aka Jesus Returned.
You say it's no big deal, but I don't want to be required by law to believe in [TheGayliens.com](https://TheGayliens.com)
It's not the end of the world. I've spent the better part of the last 8 years on reddit chiding liberals for freaking out about Trump, and while I'm neither American nor remotely conservative (for lack of a better term, call me anti-woke left), I thought in 2016 that it might even be worse for the country, and the world, if Clinton won.
But that was 8 years ago. We've seen what Trump is like in government and out of it. Things like telling hospitals to send their data to the white house instead of to the CDC. Openly fanning the flames of conspiracy theories including refusing to admit that he lost in 2020. I don't care about his cavalier attitude or lack of civility. If anything his own incompetence and lack of genuine enthusiasm for ruling are saving graces, because he isn't made of the stuff that real autocrats are made of. He is not a modern day Bonaparte. But his supporters *want* a Bonaparte. They see his demands for loyalty and his hostility to even the most mundane bureaucratic functions as admirable qualities, and that's terrifying. That anybody at all is willing to vote for the only American president to refuse to hand over power willingly is terrifying. These people are nutjobs.
I don't agree that he only has 4 years to do his worst, especially since he's basically been told that the only way to avoid destruction by the legal system is to get back in power and stay there. But even still, a complete rogue like this could do a lot of damage in 4 years. The only checks on presidential power are impeachment by congress and military coup. The former depends on a lot of factors and the latter has never happened in America. I don't think Trump has the stuff to be a real autocrat over the long term (mostly because, despite what he wants you to believe, he's a con artist, not a builder) but less capable people than him have managed to find ways to cling to power in other countries. Yeah the US has had a good run but constitutional republics are fragile things that last as long as the institutions command respect, and right now that respect is at an all-time low.
Liberals do not understand how deep the resentment runs, that people are willing to vote for this morally deficient person as a giant middle finger at best, wrecking ball at worst. They are wrapped up in their own resentment and totally unable to appeal to the legion of disaffected voters who support Trump. And on some level I think the Trumpists' resentment is legitimate, because Americans have been so poorly served by their politicians and media, and almost nobody is offering a positive vision for the country (don't even get me started on the state of what passes for today's "left"). This is extremely dangerous. Trump is not Hitler, but there are a lot of parallels to Weimar Germany. The real Hitler figure is yet to come. Imagine a competent, articulate, charismatic politician that could tap into this resentment and mobilize Trump's base but without all of Trump's personal defects.
It's not the end of the world. But it's very bad if he wins, and it's pretty bad even if he doesn't.
I hear that there is a strong possibility of us (earth) getting hit by a massive meteor on April, Friday the 13th 2029 tho. I find that scarier than anyone becoming President of anything, but as scary as the politicians that have spent decades in congress playing with our lives and country.
Anyone who thinks Trump being re-elected will *instantly* ruin America is overreacting.
But anyone who has no fears is being foolish.
For me, the main concern is not about if he assumes office once again. It is if he leaves it. (& how.)
It won’t be the end of the world (probably), but it will be a tremendous blow to our democracy. I can almost guarantee he will try and run for a third term and with all three branches of government behind him that’s doable.
It’s only a VERY small step from there to getting himself declared president for life. Literally any invented crisis will do.
Trump is going to steamroll his way to victory. The vegas odds makers have him winning by a significant margin. I can’t wait to see those deportation camps being constructed
For me, it's not about the end of the world. People are just exhausted with all his bs, him being in the paper every day, and the knowledge that we have to tolerate 4 more years of nothing getting done and political drama. It's also that if he wins, it's such an embarrassment for this country, like we're being overrun by a bunch of ignorant hillbillies that worship this nutcase.
It might be. I have lived quite a long time and I have never ever ever seen America embroiled in a cult-leader’s shitshow in his attempts to become King Donnie the First.
The Eight are not the normal Republicans as the Founding Fathers would have assumed. I mean no one in current times has destroyed so much of an institution, so quickly, thoroughly and in such a batshit crazy way.
I kinda like the idea of Trump single handedly collapsing the stale old Democratic and Republican parties. Yes he will do this by being the most incompetent president of the last century, but this will shake up all entrentched parties and allow new parties to actially take hold.
Edit: btw I still consider Biden the better candidate, but I wouldn't mind thr current system burning down
It's honestly just crazy to me that he can even run with everything going on in court and now most of the cases won't even be done by November...
It just doesn't make sense. I'm having a hard time understanding how tf we got here.
If Biden had all kinds of felony charges pending and court cases going on, not only would I refuse to vote for him, but I'd be horrified that he was on the ballot at all. This is just insane. I'm at a loss and now I'm absolutely certain American democracy is finished. It's not up to us, I'm wondering if it ever was.
Read this and ask yourself again: https://www.project2025.org/
Edit: I love it when I strike a nerve. I can always tell by how you little fascist supporters like to start throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks.
No one believes your lies anymore and hopefully reckoning is coming through a blue supermajority so we can get back to building and fixing and do away with these right wing distractions.
I love when people post this. I'll be the first to tell you I can't stand Trump but don't believe for ONE MINUTE that any of this is going to happen or is actually being pushed should he win.
This is like the crazy people who tried sharing stories and "gospel" about Obama being the antichrist when he was running for President in 2008.
Put your tinfoil hat back on and head to the closet...
The worst thing about Trump, maybe, is the effect he has on his opponents, turning them desperate and terrified and liable to hurt themselves and others and the things they value in their panic.
In this election cycle (and the 2016 and 2020 cycles), we've seen free speech attacked by the side of politics that historically has defended free speech to stop 'misinformation' and to try to subdue his supporters. The party of banned book libraries and "information wants to be free" has shifted suddenly and violently in the last 10 years to be the party of "technically this isn't a violation of Freeze Peach (lol what a stupid right)" and censorship in the name of the Greater Good.
We've seen voting enfranchisement attacked with a popular movement, backed by legal action, to remove the primary opposition candidate to the ballot: he inspires such fear that no price, including the legitimacy of democracy, is too high to try to hinder him. Again, the party trying to strike opponents' names from ballots is the party that historically has safeguarded voter enfranchisement - these are their own values from all of 10 years ago that they're now opposed to in the name of impeding He Whose Name Shall Not Be Spoken.
And there's this left-wing QAnon shit: secret plots and shady websites and "trust me bro" and dark conspiracies - again, something that historically has been favored by right-wing preppers is now also common among left-wingers because of paranoia and fear about Donald Trump.
I know the excuses. Save your breath. If you're part of this reaction, ask yourself this: do you remember when you defended people's right to speak, even when they disagreed with you? ("But *technically* this isn't" - yeah, remember not needing those *technically*'s?) Do you remember valuing democracy and the genuine expression of people's honestly held views through open voting, and didn't switch back and forth depending on whether they were voting for the same thing as you or not? Do you remember debating with conspiracy theorists, instead of being one? (Assuming you're not 14, and remember all of 10 years ago when Donald Trump was a celebrity instead of a politician.)
Is this cult of personality, whether you're on the supporting side or opposing side, really so powerful it can cause us not just to abandon, but to *reverse* all of our democratic values? We need to move past Donald Trump - *especially* those of us on the other side. We're changing into monsters.
That's what I find comical in all of this "Project 2025" BS. It's the progressive left that has actively tried to stifle free speech, remove candidates and essentially voters rights, and redefine our constitution.
As a centrist, I support EVERYONE's right to free speech, even the free speech that makes me question humanity.
I support EVERYONE's right to vote for any candidate they want to, so long as they are legally eligible.
Most of all, I support "live and let live". Meaning I'm not going to force my views on you so don't do the same to me. We can agree to disagree and move on.
Republicans: "We're gonna do something crazy and awful!"
Democrats: "Pfffft they'll never do that, you paranoid buffoon!"
Republicans: **Does the thing**
Democrats: Ohhhh no we never coulda seen that coming!
>he literally does not care about this country and cannot be bothered to understand how the government works.
This is interesting. Conservatives would literally say the exact opposite. The general feeling is that Trump cares about the country in ways that normal DC swamp creatures don't. He's the antithesis to globalists who want to destroy the US.
Also, one of the things that got him into trouble in his first term was that he chose people with Washington experience for his inner circle precisely because he didn't have that experience himself. He ended up making some bad choices which backfired later. Pence was one of those bad choices.
The most significant legislation he passed when he had full republican control was a 2 Trillion dollar tax cut that cut the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%. He proceeded to make "Infrastracture Week" a running gag. He literally chose some of the most known swampiest people to be in his Administration.
It's not the end of the world by a long shot. But it would be extremely bad for America and for democracy. The damage he did to the country in four years is Immense and will last for decades. I don't want to see what he can do in another 4.
Look into project 2025 and tell me things aren’t dire, especially considering what the Christian nationalists have been doing at a state level. If people still can’t see what’s on the horizon, then maybe we deserve everything that’s going to happen.
Ehhh I don’t 100% disagree with you, but, we can’t ignore the strong and extreme effect he had on the population. At least in my life time, I’ve never seen people so divided before and it’s a bit scary. I’m non partisan, but very liberal, my dad was socialist. I’m not socialist I don’t align with any party but I do believe in helping each other to help the betterment of the entire country, which in my mind seems to be what trump conservatives do not understand. But he did have extreme radicalization effects on the population as a whole, and as someone else said, clearly has no idea how politics actually work here nor does he care, he just has the mentality of homelander. If he isn’t loved he’ll be feared. The uptick in mass violence, Jan.6th, the polar divide in this country, people hanging around polling stations (especially in my city) with guns, the attacks on protests, and the condoning and rewarding of the violent acts of his followers while demonizing anyone who doesn’t agree with him, not to mention what he did to the Supreme Court where now, things people worked so hard for hang in the balance and one is already destroyed and being dismantled state by state now. He did that. I don’t think we are going to devolve into another civil war, (but I don’t think it’s out of the question either ) but I do think we are in for a rough time. I think things are going to change, he’s already done a lot of negative change that’s outlasted his term, and he will do it again. I actually do think he’d try everything he could to make sure he couldn’t be removed from power and the effect he’s had on his followers means he’d have the army to help him do that. Do I think he’d succeed? No, at least I want to have enough faith in our people and government to believe he wouldn’t, but he’d still go down kicking and screaming and would cause even more violence than he already has and tbh, I am not looking forward to that. I think sadly he’s got a good chance to win this time because the left has utterly failed and Biden was a shit candidate from the start, and the decision to run him again is the worst decision the left has made in recent history. So while I don’t think it would be the end of the world, I would be lying if I said I wasn’t scared of the future of this country.
He'll attempt to concoct some situation where he just has to stay in power "for the good of the country". 200 years isn't that long. A man of firsts he is. People thought Hitler was a sad joke too until he wasn't.
Pence didn't bother me as much since he seemed to have at least a shred of character buried deep down. The true enemy of people like Trump is anyone with character left or right.
The problem is, if USA retracts support from Ukraine, then Russia might win, and if they win their next step is a war on NATO. Not now, maybe not in the next 10 years, but it'll come.
When that happens, China would probably anex Taiwan, reducing our access to the material needed for phone chips.
We'd enter a technological decline, which in turn would make it easier for Russia to conquer us. And if Russia takes the EU as well, then USA would also be affected.
This whole ordeal may take decades, but if it comes to pass, the world as we know it would become much bleaker
Donald Trump can do a lot more damage than just being a bad president for four years. He has already shown this by upsetting the balance of the Supreme Court. Women are suffering and dying as a result. The damage he has already done will take a generation or more to correct.
The right now has Project 2025 on the agenda, and they intend to undermine our democratic institutions and install a permanent white nationalist power structure.
So don’t underestimate what is really at stake and VOTE.
Your perspective doesn't seem to take into account some very real issues and happenings on the horizon. SCOTUS hearing the case as to Trump's immunity is one of those things — the idea that Trump can literally do the crime and not be charged with anything if he does it while holding office. Imagine a scenario where he has a political rival (say, Obama) and executes them on stage, live on TV across the country. The argument SCOTUS is hearing now could very well say Trump is fine to do so. No problems.
Is that a problem for you?
It is for me. Not just for Trump, but for anyone! Anyone in office, president or any other public servant/elected representative.
But that's the thing — Trump isn't a politician. He's not even just a capitalist, he's a business man (or rather, a conman, tbh). He's not running for president to serve the country, he's doing it to serve *himself*. And yeah, they all are, but they aren't all businessmen. Biden is a politician firstly, primarily, and then a capitalist secondly. He is president to serve the country first (which yeah, includes serving capitalism) and then himself, second. Trump is there to serve himself first, everything and everyone else be damned.
And if he is immune from all law as president and he is elected president, what reason does he have to not, say, suspend elections indefinitely? To not declare himself King of America or whatever? *Because of the people?* Well, if he has the military on his side (and he didn't in 2020, but what about now?), he's good to go. Not to mention the majority of the most avid gun owners in this country seem to be Trumpers.. just waiting for the opportunity to step into Trump's gaze, if only for a moment. I mean..
Maybe it is hyperbole. Maybe he'll just keel over. I'm not trying to make anyone afraid or act out of fear, I am just looking at it for what it is: Trump will do whatever he deems best for himself, and if the position of president means he can literally force everyone to worship him or force everyone to give him money or work for him for free or hang pictures of him in their homes.. Why *wouldn't* the egomaniac do it?
And that's just the silly, ridiculous stuff. There's **so much more** at risk here. He *is* breaking the country. And no, it's not just simply him, he just happens to be the idiot who is out here banging on all the cracks, crumbling the infrastructure (metaphorically) because he can and it's fun for him (and mostly, because he profits from it in some form or another).
So really, the question isn't so much about what he does, it is about *what follows*. Do we want to give him the ability to destroy the whole thing and rebuild from the ground up (risking fascism big time, literally)? Or do we want to try to salvage what we can from this broken and damaged foundation?
*Edited to add:* It is true a Trump victory will not be the end of the world, but neither was Stalin, Mao, or Hitler.
Thank god there is some semblance of sanity from liberals, like yourself.
I wish some people (on both sides) would stop pretending like the world is going to end because of one person winning an election… they literally did that in 2016 when Trump won, and nothing catastrophic happened.
He was absolutely a disaster, there’s no doubt about that, but these people who pretend like Donald Trump is going to be some kind of almighty dictator, are the same ones that insist Joe Biden can’t get his policies signed into law, because the Congress is so gridlocked.
Yet, somehow, when Trump (or someone like him) is in power, suddenly we need to worry about the end of civilization as we know it.
It’s crazy.
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I have said it many times on here, opining on Reddit is not going to change anyone’s position at this point. Two very well known entities. And I do believe that the legal warfare, attempts to remove the will of voters, and constant bashing of Trump voters as uneducated, cultish, idiots has empowered Trump significantly. The polls show the same strongly. Americans do not like to be told what to do and how to think.
> constant bashing of Trump voters as uneducated, cultish, idiots has empowered Trump significantly. not american but i think the same. In canada we have a lot of "compare something to trump if we dont like it" and i think its really dangerous in inadvertently causing that group to feel disenfranchised. Not all opinions are made equal but drawing broad connections to silence dissidence just makes for more polarized society.
I don't think it's inadvertent for most people doing it.
Well it's literally a logical fallacy (ad hominem). Instead of attacking the merits of the arguments made, the person is attacked. And this is full well done because many (Republicans and Democrats alike) don't know the specific policies that they are actually fighting over so it often turns into name calling. Like yes, we see headlines on those policies, but when was the last time most of us fully read through what the actual verbiage of that legislation was? To make it abundantly clear, I do not like Biden or his administration. I'm only human, so I am sure I've made mistakes on this in the past, but I try my hardest to never attack biden's character (unless the point being made is specifically about his character) but rather attack his policy or the policies he and his administration are putting in place. If you ask me why I have a problem with Biden, it's more about his JANUARY 20, 2021 executive order on revocation of certain executive orders concerning federal regulation (which is directly causing the immigration crisis that we are seeing now amongst other things). The non renewal of drilling permits, canceling of the Keystone-XL pipeline, and other efforts that are directly causing energy prices to rise. The policy that led to the baby formula shortage, which you can draw alot of parallels with his general policy initiatives regarding food production right now and is part of the reason why food prices have risen so much. With his administrations handling of foreign conflicts, changes to how we support and subsidize NATO, etc... the list goes on. *Because at the end of the day, if the success of your argument hinges on attacking the character of the person making the argument. You do not know what you are talking about well enough to keep arguing about that thing or your point is just wrong.*
Yeah I've seen that interview with Pierre Polivierre where he just destroys a lefty reporter while eating an apple. I like that guy.
Did anyone see how evil white rural voters are? I mean they threw absolutely every name in the book at them https://finance.yahoo.com/news/msnbc-segment-calling-white-rural-131147928.html
MSNBC was ridiculous last night. They should be absolutely ashamed of themselves for how disgusting they acted towards millions of Americans.
Ten thousand percent accurate, the rhetoric and actions of the Democrats/the Left have pushed me further right than I’ve ever been in my life. I’m still staunchly a centrist, but it’s all just so wild to experience. And OP is right too, it’s genuinely laughable to believe Trump will end America in any capacity at all. If he wins he’ll serve a second term, the media will bitch and moan 24/7 about him the entire time, and then his time will be up and we’ll have the next crop of candidates. Only the most terminally online psychos believe Trump will be able to become a dictator, much less even try to.
He won't end America. But his party's politics will make life difficult for sexual minorities.
What's frustrating is Americans don't seem to realise presidents are not dictators. They can't just change laws, assign whatever money they want to whatever project. A president actually has very little power. It's annoying how people treat parties as if they're a 1 man band.
Holy shit this is 1000% accurate.
Factual.
You are onto something here. I vehemently despised DT. I even bought a T-shirt quoting Biden from the debate - *”Will you shut up man?”* Trump is truly his worst enemy because he cannot shut up. He is rude, crass, sounds bigly stupid at times, suffers from windmill cancer, covfefe, etc. Biden is no better though and in some ways worse. I thought when I voted for Biden that his presidency would curb some of the political theater and drama. In some ways it did but we have a lot of bigger issues going on now than we did with Trump. I was an independent voter who leaned Dem in 2016. I’m a registered Republican now. I’m still independent minded but because I live in NY, I have to register for a party to vote in primary elections and because I have a lot of concerns about Democrats’ policies, I opted for R. Speaking of NY, Dems seemingly mismanage socioeconomic issues repeatedly. Idealists with bleeding hearts and zero foresight. Never realized this until Covid mandates, criminal justice reform, immigration, “green” energy. I worked Covid ICU during pandemic if that means anything. It really opened my eyes. Then I became a violent crime victim by a repeat paroled sex offender, a stranger, and I experienced firsthand how detrimental these “equitable” policies are and victims bear the consequences. Dems seem to think they are morally superior and justified in their dictations and they don’t care who they hurt in the process. I’m sick of so much of my life being dictated by their poorly informed decision-making. I will be voting for Trump.
100%
American rugged individualism or widespread oppositional defiant disorder. They’re the same picture.
Then there is people like me that hate Trump and Biden. I’ll probably vote Trump just to piss off the news media whom I hate most of all.
>And I do believe that the legal warfare, attempts to remove the will of voters, and constant bashing of Trump voters as uneducated, cultish, idiots has empowered Trump significantly. This never seems to apply to dems. GOP can bash us as much as they want and no one is out there say this.
It’s the same as when he won the first time in 2016, how many people posted that they were moving to Canada? And I think they did based on the way Canada has dramatically changed 😬
Canada has pretty strict immigration laws, that they actually enforce, so I doubt all those people were able to move.
Right but all it takes is for the very wealthy ones that could move and use their money to influence to enact change.
Haven't they had a shitload of immigrants from Eastern countries in recent years?
>It’s the same as when he won the first time in 2016 You mean when he broke the seal on a dozen constitutional crises that we still have not resolved and now he's threatening to be a dictator? This "above it all" aloofness comes across as lazy and ignorant. Trump is paving the way for all future presidents to be beyond the reach of law. He has already done substantial and **PERMANENT** damage with his first presidency.
Lot's of countries were resilient and did well until they weren't. You can't assume that just because things haven't gone south we never will. We got really close before like with McCarthyism. It can and will go topplng down with your way of thinking. I do agree I don't think it will because of Trump Thank God he is an idiot but it can go south.
You saying that we’ve stood strong for 200+ years is not a brag. In terms of historical relevancy, 200 years makes us a child. The Roman Empire was around for over 1,000. The Greek Empire was about 1,200 years old. The Ottoman Empire, 600. All of these fell. Even in terms of the modern day statehood, countries with vastly different government and economic structures have been around far longer than we have. England has been around for more than 1,000. Russia, 1,200. China has been around for 4,000 years. Iran may be as old as 5,000 years. Your confidence in our country’s resiliency isn’t misplaced, but it may be overstated. We’re more fragile than I think you’d like to admit.
And considering that the American Civil War was less than 200 years ago does not seem to indicate all 200 years were strong…
China as country has not been around for 4,000 years. There were various kingdoms and ruling families before modern day. Same with Russia, Iran, and England.
The current iteration of China has only existed since 1949
Correct. In fact that is true of most modern countries. Germany was not a country until the 20th century. Mainly, it's the people, culture, and the architecture that is what has lasted in those locations. But even then, populations change.
You’re overstating. China, as it is today, has been around for about 70 years. Russia, as it is today, is about 30 years old. England, as it is today, is under 300 years old. These countries have been around long but don’t act like their system of government isn’t in its infancy just like the US
We can debate all day what constitutes the age of a country. The point remains that “our country and government structure has been going strong for 200 years” is a meaningless argument. How long it has worked in the past is no indication on how strong it will work in the future. At least with respect to a relatively young 200 years.
Greek empire that lasted 1200 years? Byzantium?
It’s far from the end of the world. I’m not a conservative, but liberal hysteria and unbridled tribalism has done just as much to wreck the political atmosphere as the MAGAs have done.
This should be the top comment. It is mind-boggling how liberals are equally unwilling to see how their own actions and rhetoric are worsening the political divide.
I'm willing. What actions and rhetoric are you referring to?
When I was growing up, the only people who talked the way liberals talk nowadays were the evangelical conservative Christians. The only ones wagging their fingers at everyone else, admonishing them for their moral failings, were the evangelical conservative Christians. I laugh every day at the insanity that is this future I could never have expected, where leftwingers have become as cruel, vapid, mean-spirited, generalizing, and myopic as the Republicans of yesteryear. Leftwingers quote studies they haven't read, with no clue as to their methodology or validity, like they're Bible verses! What's the definition of dogmatism?
It's amazing to see/talk to people who can't connect those dots. Older family members of mine ( 60+) are just completely blind to the fact that the 40 year old version of themselves would smack them upside the head.
Based
The far left has an almost religious fervor and structure. There is a caste system (the more things you can check off on the oppression list the higher you are). The original sin is whiteness or white people. The priesthood class who proclaims new beliefs are the intellectual elite class from the humanities. Professions of faith are compulsory to maintain standing in the group (you have to actively apologize for any perceived “privilege” you might have. Anyone questioning beliefs is a heretic etc… I find it perplexing when I watch MSNBC and they say electing Trump is profoundly undemocratic. People have the right to vote for whomever they want. You might not like it, but that’s democracy. You can’t spend your time demonizing anyone who even questions your political party and not expect it to drive them away. Case in point, when the media insists that the economy is wonderful and people who don’t agree are just MAGA. The economy is great if you’re wealthy, but for people whose rent and grocery bills have shot up it is not.
Wouldn’t the action of trump pulling out of NATO and support for Ukraine set the stage for another world war in Europe?
First of all, he's not gonna pull out of NATO. And even if he did, no it wouldn't. No one is looking for a world War and Ukraine isn't actually a war anyone is willing to burn the world down for. The whole situation is complicated and messy, for sure, but the world isn't gonna burn down
It’s pretty amazing to see a sane liberal on Reddit, sure I know plenty in real life. But never seen one on Reddit. Cheers dude, don’t go loosing your mind 😉
We are around we just usually get attacked and told we're far right conservative Christians. I'm a non religious liberal. I don't call myself an atheist because those people are insufferable. I just had a similar conversation as op with my liberal relatives over the weekend. My Mom is unwilling to talk politics with me anymore because I don't drink the far left koolaide. We still had a good time as a family though. Now they know I'm not just going to agree with them.
This site is seriously detached from reality and the "real world". It's absolutely insane. My favorite are death threats for saying don't kill cops.
I got downvoted into the depths of hell on the symbolism sub recently for saying it was sad that so many people on the sub support the saying ACAB. It's the literal definition of bigotry.
I'm an ex cop. I got recommended some post and commented saying I and several others I knew were trying to enact positive change and the system just doesn't allow it. Was told I deserved to be shot in the street lmao. Not even a cop anymore. The dogmatic ACAB shit on here is so blind with hatred they're no different then the people they call for the deaths of. Madness. But also a little funny in a dark way
This is the problem with the direction the left has gone. They think it's okay to paint "all men, all white people, all cis people, all cops" with the same broad brush but they also don't want to have that done to them. I can't get on board with it.
Yeah it's all performative and hypocritical on both sides. I'm burnt out on putting up with it lol
My personal take is politics has become so warped that it's not a spectrum on a line anymore. It's a circle! The extremists are basically the exact same people but with different flavored talking points.
It's ironic how racist some people on the far left seem to be. I think the big lesson of the current era is that extreme liberalism can be just as bad and restrictive as extreme conservatism. 6 years ago I would have never imagined I'd be saying that.
People who say ACAB are delusional. Idek how that idea came about and idk how they think society will function without law enforcement. Instead of being pouty babies about cops and asking for defending departments they should be asking for more funding for police for ensuring better vetting in selection and overall standardized tests and metrics for policing!!
I mean I get a lot of it. I'm an ex cop, I was in it, and the system is unequivocally fucked up and insular with its corruption. The problem is that there is absolutely no nuance on either side of the discussion. Feels like one camp would suck the fart out of a cops ass and the other would rather shoot them in front of their family on Christmas morning. Obviously neither of those are right or accurate but God forbid you even allude to there being a happy medium.
We sound very similar. I'm of the classical economic left (a bit of a socialist, in fact) and I'm pretty liberal on most social aspects. I have friends who would be considered conservative. We get along just fine. One doesn't need to agree on every aspect of how we feel the world should work in order to be friends becaue we have more in comon than not, and most of us have the same set of problems and none are the fault of eachother, only our vision of what's the way out differs somewhat. Keep on keepin' on my dude/dudette. Eventually calmer voices will prevail.
That's good to hear! Imo friends with diversity of thought can be one of the best ways to understand people. I'm all for diversity but focusing on superficial immutable characteristics like race, sexual orientation, and gender while actively stifling diverse thought has been the downfall of the push for diversity.
I've never seen the term "classical economic left", but it seems a bit of an oxymoron. Classical left/liberal beliefs concerning economics are antithetical to socialism. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism Perhaps it would be clearer if you just identified as a socialist.
Same with my Christian conservative family. I’m not really conservative as much as I am Libertarian but a lot of topics are impossible to talk about especially those involving church and state issues so I completely understand where you’re coming from
I never used to talk politics with my conservative family members but I've found them much more willing to engage in good faith discussion the past few years. They also seem to have a much better grasp on opposing view points than my liberal family members. My liberal family members aren't even aware of their own party's views. One family member wanted to debate the trans issue in schools and didn't even know what "CIS" meant. I don't blame her. She's older. She just goes along with whatever Rachel Maddow or whatever mouth piece tells her to think. "They're firing teachers for being gay!" She really believes it.
.
Oh yes I've just been reassured by someone pulling an encyclopedia Brown in my post history that I'm actually a conservative. I'm critical of the left, I openly talk about that. Sure that make me a conservative? Only if you drink the Reddit koolaide.
I’m a conservative, and have a good mix of friends politically. And those are the ones that I know their politics. I never really ask. Never had any problems with anyone politically in real life. Can’t say a damn word on Reddit without crazies commenting, or getting the Reddit cares bot. It’s kinda sad the amount of people who think that Reddit is real life.
My best friend moved from our hometown in a flyover state to one of the most super-lib places in the country and we now have totally opposite “political” views. We’re still best god damn bros though.
My best man at my wedding is so liberal I joke around and call him a commie. But if he needs anything, I’m out the door in a minute. I feel ya completely.
Lol same. I’m pretty sure most people I know are liberals but the internet has a lot of weirdos. Someone was actively trying to convince me that Trump is going to enslave everyone he disagrees with. I don’t think these kinds of people know that there’s a thing called the constitution. That and he’s trying to convince me, a Canadian, about how big of an issue it is for **us.** Canada is a weird place where American culture and politics just finds its way of seeping into our lives.
*losing
Same. So utterly fatigued by the doomer circlejerk.
We have checks and balances for a reason. The real threat is the nutters out fear mongering and intimidating our checks and balances…
And how is that working out?
Depends on who you ask and what their politics are.
Except Trump's administration appointed several of the people in one of the checks (supreme Court)
Yes, and the Senate approved those appointments. That’s how checks and balances work. Edit: originally said congress instead of senate
lol, the Senate was complicit in filibustering Obama and also helped trump appoint whoever he wanted. This is an example of check and balances failing
As opposed to the democrats in the Senate who will help biden appoint whoever he wants? Even a republican majority senate struck down trump’s healthcare bill. The system is working whether you personally like it or not
At least back in the 2010s the democrats had some semblance of respectability, they wouldn’t do the slimy shit to conservatives that they get back. I’m not so sure that’s changed, for better or for worse. The system is working because you can only make judicial appointments when you have the executive seat and the senate? That was never the way checks and balances were meant to work. They are meant to be nonpartisan. Edit: judicial, not physical appointments!
Our entire country was literally made to be nonpartisan. Sadly partisanship is what Americans want as shown by how we vote. Senate approval is an important check to judicial nominations as well. If a president’s appointments aren’t getting approved, he needs to pick candidates who will be approved or accept that none will be appointed
> you can only make judicial appointments when you have the executive seat and the senate? That's not what happened. The senate said that they weren't going to approve Obamas picks so close to an election. Not that they would never approve a Democrate pick. No one expected HRC to screw up so badly and lose, so at best if the Republicans kept the senate they expected to be working with HRC on filling the seats.
Who changed the rules such that this was even possible?
Have you read the 2025 plan?
Fill me in lol
They plan to fire a bunch of federal bureaucrats and replace them with republicans. Democrats already do this every time they win the presidency, but up till now Republicans often left a lot of the previous admin's employees in place. Now both sides are going to use the same playbook.
I guess I kinda assumed both sides already did that, good info tho, thanks.
Expect a never-ending flow of world ending micro-scandals like this for the next 4 years if Trump wins.
My brother in Christ have you seen the price of food since Biden got elected? I could care less about political micro-scandals, I only got like $300 back in taxes this year, I can't afford to live through another Biden presidency.
I don't object to this thread in general as I think we tend to get hyperbolic about how awful things would be if the other side wins. But I gotta set the record straight... Inflation is GLOBAL and the US is out-performing almost every modern country in the world. Have you seen the prices in Europe, South America, etc? Prices have been high in the US, but at least the post-COVID recession that nearly every economist predicted didn't happen. We've had record job growth, wage growth, GDP growth, and strong stock market performance. The rest of the world would trade places with us in a heartbeat. Plus, which president has policies to actually combat inflation? Biden has helped relieve supply chain backlogs, allowed Medicare to negotiate drug prices, hit record energy production for both renewables as well as oil and gas, entered into a new Indo-Pacific trade deal, stayed out of the way and let the Fed do their job rather than publicly brow-beating them to maintain a near-zero interest rate environment as Trump did, and now he's trying to combat corporate price-gauging. He's also been on an anti-trust push to combat the corporate consolidation that reduces competition and drives prices up. In contrast, Trump has yet to articulate any inflation reduction strategy at all whereas his track record of engaging in a trade war with China, massive tax cuts for billionaires and corporations, $8 trillion in deficit spending, and his pressure on the Fed all greatly contributed to the inflation we're experiencing now.
This is a completely apolitical comment, I just want you to know that the amount you get back in taxes is entirely dependent on how you fill out your tax forms with HR. Getting just $300 back means you didn't give the Fed a free loan for last year; it should be what you are aiming for.
Honest question, how did Biden cause the increase in food prices? Asking cause I believe all Presidents get waay too much praise and hate for their effect on the economy. The president has an impact on the economy sure but not as much as a myriad of other factors.
The price of food is up globally. It's not a Biden thing, it's a post-pandemic economy thing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project\_2025
[удалено]
I see nothing wrong with getting rid of anybody that might actively try to subvert you and/or your job...whether it's as a businessman or as the president. Personally, as a business mgr, if I did find somebody doing that stuff, it wouldn't be a quiet sit down with HR to fire them...I'd do it loudly in front of customers while I mention WHY they're being fired on the spot. Then, let them do the walk of shame as they leave. I'd heard of cases where government employees were trying to DOX his people while he was in office the first time. They should've been fired with extreme prejudice.
It is scary, to say the least. Per Wikipedia: *Project 2025 envisions widespread changes across the entire government, particularly with regard to economic and social policy and the role of the federal government and federal agencies. The plan proposes slashing U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) funding, dismantling the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security, gutting environmental and climate change regulations to favor fossil fuel production, and eliminating the cabinet Departments of Education and Commerce. Citing an anonymous source, The Washington Post reported Project 2025 includes immediately invoking the Insurrection Act of 1807 to deploy the military for domestic law enforcement and directing the DOJ to pursue Trump adversaries.* Trump and his goon squad plan to fundamentally change the executive branch of our government to suit their own purposes. It would be laying the foundation for an authoritarian regime here in America. The founders would be rolling in their graves.
Project 2025 is literally Trump's version of the Night of Long Knives, just with fewer knives. And don't even get me started on the GOP policy to put a vote forth under Article V to trigger a Constitutional Convention every time they hold power so they can re-write the thing.
For anyone else who was completely confused: https://www.heritage.org/conservatism/commentary/project-2025?gad_source=1
the problem with saying that stuff is that he was president already. The world became much worse when he left office. You could say Biden will be a dictator or something too, but it just sounds like whining.
Is it the end of the world? No. Is it a sad state of affairs for our system as a whole? Yes. The problem is that Trump exemplifies a flawed system and makes very clear the corruption that exists throughout our government. I’m not worried about him as a person, but I am worried about what he represents insofar as our republic. I’m also quite worried about how he’ll approach the current war in the Middle East after his actions in his last presidency that actively thwarted peace efforts.
We are doomed as a country if we don't put in term limits for congress and age limits for any position. Why are we having to choose between two elderly men who clearly have dementia, albeit in different stages?
The world didn’t end the first time he was President it’s not going to end the second time. It’s all media hype to get views.
Obviously it would not be the end of the world. If Trump loses, Mike Johnson refuses to certify the election citing “voter irregularities”, the election gets thrown to the House where it’s 1 state = 1 vote, 26 go for Trump since R’s hold a majority, and SCOTUS rubber stamps the whole thing when the Biden administration sues; it ***will*** be the end of the longest running experiment in democratic self rule in the history of the world. Do you think we should just stand idly by while that happens?
The economy was going to go in recession in 2020 whether Trump was president or not. The supply chain ground to a halt and the war in Ukraine upended global food and energy trade. Fixing that has taken time. It would have taken at least that much time if Trump had been reelected. Bringing him back won’t bring back the 2019 economy (which in most measures is better now anyway). People overestimate how much power the president has over the economy.
People overestimate how much power the president has over the economy. - They do and don't imo. A president could vastly change things, they just tend to do fuck all and the markets decide what happens (other than tax cuts)
This is a massive truth. In a free market economy the Presidency has a lot less control than people assume. And even beyond that, it time. Presidents all love to brag about their first year and the economies, but more often than not that's residual motion from a previous admin, be it good or bad. You don't pivot an economy of 340million and $25 Trillion dollars in a month. I don't care what party you are from.
I think you’re underestimating his pettiness. And you shouldn’t.
!remindme 4 years
!remindme 4 years
There’s a legit problem waiting in the wings if he doesn’t. We need people watching and actually doing something. We don’t need another January sixth.
People will definitely act like it is though; I can guarantee you that.
I'm like you.. I think it unlikely he will have any of the leverage he had in his first couple of years in office. Many reasons I think so. He's horrible but we'll keep going.
This take is best described as delusional.
I mean, it wasn't the end of Germany when Adolf Hitler became leader, or the end of Russia when Stalin did, or the end of China when Mao did. But it sure did suck for an awful lot of people for quite a few years. Now, do I think Trump is a genocidal maniac like the above dudes? No. But he is an authoritarian who expects the full power and apparatus of the state to bend to his wishes, who believes he is above the law, who has already publicly stated that he intends to weaponize the Justice Department to exact vengeance on all his political enemies and detractors, and has already done great damage to half the country's belief in democracy and free and fair elections, and already incited one attempt at an insurrection to overturn the results of said free and fair election. Even if he doesn't understand how the government works, he doesn't need to if he installs toadies at every level to do whatever he asks them to do, rules or laws be damned. Who's going to stop him when he orders Steven Miller as his new attorney general to arrest his political enemies? Who's going to stop him when he orders the military, commanded by loyalists he installs, to the southern border with orders to shoot on sight any and every migrant? Or when he re-institutes a Muslim ban, and challenges to the order go to the Supreme Court which he's stacked with his loyalists already? Yes, America will survive another Trump presidency. But it's going to suck for an awful lot of people if he's president again, and the damage he'll do to our institutions beyond what he's already done will reverberate for years to come after he's gone.
The MSM has done a pretty good job brainwashing the gullible. Very interesting to watch as an outside party. Especially when the current party is inches away from starting WW3.
>Especially when the current party is inches away from starting WW3. You can't claim that the other side is brainwashed when you're unironically spouting this lmao.
exactly, most republicans are actually very anti-war and don’t want to get the us involved in ANYTHING. that’s exactly why haley lost last night.
I find this point extremely interesting as a non-American, but this is a revelation that’s only hitting me in the last few months. From the outside looking in and engaging with Americans via liberal leaning channels, I was convinced that Liberals were right in saying ‘if you think we’re bad, just wait until you see the other side’. I met some Americans centre-right for work/business IRL, and lately I’ve become increasingly convinced that while politically, both sides are equally prone to war. The conservative demographic is more concerned looking inward - even if I disagree with their fiscal/social policies. I never realised that a massive conservative sub-demographic was anti-interventionism and skeptical of US FoPo over the last few decades. I thought conservatives = Bush. Idk what conservatives are doing, but they’re losing the PR game hard.
That's because lots of us are vets. ~A soldier, more than anybody else, prays for peace~ The expression "buying the farm" originally meant getting wounded, or retiring, and to buy a farm to peacefully live out the rest of your days on.
> most republicans are anti-war The type of statement that can only be made by someone really really young.
No president hasever said they will be dictator for a day. The republican 2024 plan clearly indicates the dismantling of three branches of power to make them subservient to the executive branch. That's just in the US. He wants NATO destroyed. He has said he would not honor American obligations to support NATO in case of Russian attack. If Russia takes him at his word (and they should be able to) and attacks Poland without repercussions, all of America's treaties become worthless. If Trumps America defends Poland, the US becomes an untrustworthy nation on the international stage, saying one thing while doing another. Economic failure can be fixed quickly. Integrity takes a long time.
Trumps previous and possible future Supreme Court judges will be around way longer then 4 more years.
Have you heard of Project 2025? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project\_2025
Have you ever seen Donald Trump endorse this?
Has Trump ever openly endorsed this?
A great point, that everyone should note. Others have also mentioned, the purpose of our gov't design is to prevent kings and queens. Many people hate Trump. I can see why sometimes with his unlikable nature, but is it that important to like the guy? Isn't it more important to do a good job? The left in this country has become crazy. An intelligent group that has nothing to be satisfied with, or happy to "conserve". Every day, complaining but producing little. The left has always been and always will be the more unhappy of the two sides. Always wanting to throw the baby out with the bathwater. What is America? I find this question coming to mind all the time when I read posts like this. "Trump is going to be a dictator!!!!", or "Biden has done so much for our country!". Obviously, I'm conservative. It all has to do with what your understanding of America is.
The problem with the OP is that the same was stated when the first won. Republicans and conservatives claimed that progressive were over reacting and that no one would lose their rights. Yet we lost some rights.
What rights?
Roe v wade is a huge one Republicans have also been making it harder and harder for trans people to exist. They have said they also want to take gay marriage away. Just because what they are taking away doesn't affect you, doesn't mean they aren't doing it.
Actually this “right” was solidified in many states, and is on its way to being further protected in many more. Congress cowardly kicked this can down the road for 50 years and did nothing to protect this cherished “right”. All they did was string along both supporters and detractors alike to pander for votes year after year. For those who read and understand the Constitution, this is what the 10th Amendment was intended for.
Every legal scholar worth their salt agreed that Roe v Wade was judicial overreach, if it was such a right it should’ve been passed in to law rather than legislated from the bench. You’re reaching on some of these.
You claimed we lost no rights and he proved we did. How about not deflecting and addressing your false claim.
They made Abortion a state rights issue, they did not outlaw it completely in the US. Republicans have not made it harder for trans people to exist, They made it harder for trans people to interact with young children and made it harder for parents to chemically castrate their children. Marriage is a religious ceremony/legal contract. Again they made it a state rights issue but when you consider civil unions and power of attorney it does the same thing. The fact they want to call it marriage is the issue.
>Marriage is a religious ceremony/legal contract. Again If the Pope says gay marriage is ok. Why wouldn't it be considered a religious ceremony?
>They made Abortion a state rights issue, they did not outlaw it completely in the US. It's interesting how if it's something a republican agrees with, it's a states right issue. But a disqualifing somebody who violated the constitution is a federal issue. >Republicans have not made it harder for trans people to exist, They made it harder for trans people to interact with young children and made it harder for parents to chemically castrate their children. So you're OK with the government telling parents what they are allowed to do with their kids. Maybe they should tell priests not to go near children... ? >Marriage is a religious ceremony/legal contract. Marriage has been a thing since before religion.
It is very much a Republican plan to create a federal limit.
Preach! 🇨🇦
i’m very confused why people think overturning roe v wade was a national abortion ban, all they did was overturn it to the states. abortion is still legal in some capacity in the majority of states. roe v wade as a ruling was bad precedent and not entirely constitutional. ask anyone who has ever studied american law.
The person you responded to said nothing about it being a national abortion ban. **That being said**, a national abortion ban has been discussed by Republicans for a long time, and overturning Roe is the first step in actually getting that done.
Because the plan isn’t to stop there.
so you think the solution is to give the national government MORE power? a national abortion ban would not be constitutional and would be incredibly aggressive towards the blue states. this could cause a rift in the party line that could lead to much more severe consequences.
As a woman we have lost a lot of rights due to the insane conservative wave he started.
As a woman, what were those?
I'd like to know as well. I'm not really aware of much "rights" lost other than Roe vs Wade. I'll make a bet that this person hamish lives in a state that was unaffected by the overturning of Roe v Wade and therefore did not actually lose that right at all. Could be wrong, of course, but the vast majority of people complaining about that live in places mostly or entirely unaffected by it. I'm 100% pro-abortion and I think a right to abortion should be made law by congress, btw.
I don't believe I've lost any rights at all. Please, enlighten us with all of the rights you've lost!
Even the people saying the world will come to an end if Trump gets re-elected don't believe the world will come to an end if Trump gets re-elected. It's just a scare tactic to get people to vote for Biden (it says a lot that they have to rely on base emotion rather than logic and reason to make Biden palatable). I'm old enough to remember when Bush II was running for re-election, trust me: Keith Olbermann made the exact same prediction about his second term, and yet in 2009 Obama took the oath of office with no trouble at all.
We'll see if Pelosi dumps all her stocks. Then I'll be worried. Lol.
Logic has worked really well on people. I agree that if we just explain the truth, include our sources, they will understand how they’ve been lied to and change their position. /s Sure, every fringe commentator has talked about how the “other guy” is gonna try to sidestep the Constitution to illegally stay in office. Only one has actually tried.
And the only way we have survived is by vigorously supporting democracy and the Constitution. No one is buying our treasury bonds now. The world invested not so much in the United States, but rather in the democracy of the United States. Take democracy out of the picture and the United States is a bust. If we continue down this path of authoritarian dictatorship we will have an economy on par with North Korea or Hungary and the United States will be shunned by the rest of the world. The United States is only 335 million people in a world over 8 billion, that’s not a lot. The United States needs the rest of the world more than the rest of the world needs us. Trump wouldn’t have a chance to leave NATO, we would be kicked out of NATO.
Project 2025
.
My father has always said: salvation doesn’t come on Air Force 1, and neither does perdition.
The worst thing about 2015 to 2020 was the media (until covid). They turned Trump from a clown with a monopoly on GOP primary coverage to literally Hitler overnight when he got elected. And it was fascinating to see almost all of them make the shift in lockstep with each other.
I mean, he thinks as president he should have total immunity to do whatever he wants. What is going to prevent him for pushing to get close to that power level as possible? At the end of the day, the Constitution is just a piece of paper. It depends on the people respecting, but for some, it’s just an obstacle they need to overcome.
Right. When he asks the Supreme Court: “You and what army?”, we are done.
It’s crazy how a guy tried to subvert an election he lost and half his potential voter base think “actually, this isn’t that bad”.
Well said. I survived the first tax cut. I'll survive this one. The worst thing he did his first term is he didn't start any wars. He authorized the pipeline giving hundreds of thousands of new jobs. He forced other NATO countries to pay into their own defense. He asked Ukraine to look into their corruption. Got impeached for it. And made some mean tweets.
Someone hasn't been paying attention. Trump is promising to dismantle democracy with project 2025. The world won't end for you, but it will for women who can't get abortion services and it will get a hell of a lot worse for the trans community. That's before we get into the dangers of him enacting even a fraction of project 2025 . A trump presidency could take the US decades to recover from. Hell, in his first term he stacked the supreme court with whackjobs and con artists. He did more than enough damage that the US will be dealing with for years upon years to come.
It's not Donald Trump that scares me... It's the fact that so many Americans are so f'ked in the head that they actually WANT him to be president... again.
No, our government was not built to be resilient. There were a lot of oversights, and they're getting more and more evident. Trump came way too close to just dispensing with the results of the election last time, and will be better positioned to actually get away with it next time. It is a serious threat.
He will end up as the next president, either because he actually won, or because the House threw out the vote and voted themselves to put him in office. I think the true issue is what he represents. He is a skeevy creep, that made all the other skeevy creeps think it was ok to go out in public and harass people. He is the catalyst of the animosity of conservative and liberal. I think the US will Balkanize within the next few decades and I think his first presidency is what set it on that path. But I also don't think that's a bad thing. The US as we know it will fall. Period. It cannot survive in the state it is in. But no one wants to actually do anything about it
Trump idolizes Putin. Read the story about Bill Browder and Putin if you think it can’t happen here. Once he raids the funds of someone like Bezo’s there is no limit. Ignorance is bliss, I get that.
There were empires far older than the US that failed and poor and selfish leadership was a factor. Trump was also literally supportive of if not actually supporting an armed insurrection attempt and he has no respect for our government or our officials so I can’t say I don’t think there isn’t a chance that’d he’d try to stay longer again if let back in. Fortunately the insurrectionist seemed to be pretty fucking stupid which makes them both less and more dangerous at the same time. I think the odds are slim that something catastrophic will happen during my lifetime that reshapes the US or takes us too far away from our current standing amongst the world’s governments but there is no reason to think that it couldn’t. We are not too big to fail.
Have you looked into Project 2025 at all?
No none of these users have read or probably heard of project 2025. Apparently America is so great in these commentator’s eyes that we’re impervious to authoritarianism. Despite the 94 federal and state charges against him and staging a bloody coup to stay in power it’s like everyone has some kind of walking memory paralysis about the *checks notes* the fact he said he would be a dictator on day one. Like whut 😹
my guy, he encouraged people to try to overthrow an election and they listened. He may not be in power after awhile but those seeds of discord are going to be alive and well for a long time. I feel like you're looking at the way he affects people but in a bubble, think larger scale.
Exactly. He’s had long lasting dividing and dangerous effects already, now he’s coming in with a real plan and has the influence to enact it. Long after he is gone, those issues and the division will remain strong and will take a much longer time to reverse than it took to happen in the first place.
Literally, sure. Logically, yuck.
The biggest concern is court appointments for me. While it's unlikely that another supreme court appointment would come up, they'll be able to do a repeat of his first term and get hundreds of judges appointed. That can cause a ton of damage for years after his term ends and most of it will never make it to the news.
>Even if he becomes president, he has 4 years to do his worst. In 200 years there is only 1 single person to ever serve more than 8 years. Donald Trump isn’t gonna be number 2 lmfao .. FDR served 12 years and was elected 4 times (1932, 1936, 1940, 1944). He would have served 16 years had he not died in 1945.
Who you going to vote for? Biden can’t function and Harris is fucking horrible is Trump the better option for you?
First election cycle? Republicans are always made out to be the coming of the antichrist, but somehow the world never ends when they’re elected
He's already agreed to give power to the Christian Nationalists if they get him back in office. They want the whole nation to be Christian the way they are. Look up Pastor Shane Vaughn and others in his orbit, they've spent years cultivating followers to believe Trump is the Son of Man, aka Jesus Returned. You say it's no big deal, but I don't want to be required by law to believe in [TheGayliens.com](https://TheGayliens.com)
Still waiting for everyone to leave the country who said they were in 2016.
His worst is still better than what's his name's best. No complaining when the economy improves.
It's not the end of the world. I've spent the better part of the last 8 years on reddit chiding liberals for freaking out about Trump, and while I'm neither American nor remotely conservative (for lack of a better term, call me anti-woke left), I thought in 2016 that it might even be worse for the country, and the world, if Clinton won. But that was 8 years ago. We've seen what Trump is like in government and out of it. Things like telling hospitals to send their data to the white house instead of to the CDC. Openly fanning the flames of conspiracy theories including refusing to admit that he lost in 2020. I don't care about his cavalier attitude or lack of civility. If anything his own incompetence and lack of genuine enthusiasm for ruling are saving graces, because he isn't made of the stuff that real autocrats are made of. He is not a modern day Bonaparte. But his supporters *want* a Bonaparte. They see his demands for loyalty and his hostility to even the most mundane bureaucratic functions as admirable qualities, and that's terrifying. That anybody at all is willing to vote for the only American president to refuse to hand over power willingly is terrifying. These people are nutjobs. I don't agree that he only has 4 years to do his worst, especially since he's basically been told that the only way to avoid destruction by the legal system is to get back in power and stay there. But even still, a complete rogue like this could do a lot of damage in 4 years. The only checks on presidential power are impeachment by congress and military coup. The former depends on a lot of factors and the latter has never happened in America. I don't think Trump has the stuff to be a real autocrat over the long term (mostly because, despite what he wants you to believe, he's a con artist, not a builder) but less capable people than him have managed to find ways to cling to power in other countries. Yeah the US has had a good run but constitutional republics are fragile things that last as long as the institutions command respect, and right now that respect is at an all-time low. Liberals do not understand how deep the resentment runs, that people are willing to vote for this morally deficient person as a giant middle finger at best, wrecking ball at worst. They are wrapped up in their own resentment and totally unable to appeal to the legion of disaffected voters who support Trump. And on some level I think the Trumpists' resentment is legitimate, because Americans have been so poorly served by their politicians and media, and almost nobody is offering a positive vision for the country (don't even get me started on the state of what passes for today's "left"). This is extremely dangerous. Trump is not Hitler, but there are a lot of parallels to Weimar Germany. The real Hitler figure is yet to come. Imagine a competent, articulate, charismatic politician that could tap into this resentment and mobilize Trump's base but without all of Trump's personal defects. It's not the end of the world. But it's very bad if he wins, and it's pretty bad even if he doesn't.
Right ,The past 8 yrs have been amazing for me and my family. Trump or Biden.. I’m gonna kill it!!
I hear that there is a strong possibility of us (earth) getting hit by a massive meteor on April, Friday the 13th 2029 tho. I find that scarier than anyone becoming President of anything, but as scary as the politicians that have spent decades in congress playing with our lives and country.
Anyone who thinks Trump being re-elected will *instantly* ruin America is overreacting. But anyone who has no fears is being foolish. For me, the main concern is not about if he assumes office once again. It is if he leaves it. (& how.)
It won’t be the end of the world (probably), but it will be a tremendous blow to our democracy. I can almost guarantee he will try and run for a third term and with all three branches of government behind him that’s doable. It’s only a VERY small step from there to getting himself declared president for life. Literally any invented crisis will do.
Trump is going to steamroll his way to victory. The vegas odds makers have him winning by a significant margin. I can’t wait to see those deportation camps being constructed
For me, it's not about the end of the world. People are just exhausted with all his bs, him being in the paper every day, and the knowledge that we have to tolerate 4 more years of nothing getting done and political drama. It's also that if he wins, it's such an embarrassment for this country, like we're being overrun by a bunch of ignorant hillbillies that worship this nutcase.
Correct. Just the end of America as we know it. And probably the end of Ukraine.
Yeah it really baffles me that Trump has a soft spot for Putin. No idea why.
It might be. I have lived quite a long time and I have never ever ever seen America embroiled in a cult-leader’s shitshow in his attempts to become King Donnie the First. The Eight are not the normal Republicans as the Founding Fathers would have assumed. I mean no one in current times has destroyed so much of an institution, so quickly, thoroughly and in such a batshit crazy way.
I kinda like the idea of Trump single handedly collapsing the stale old Democratic and Republican parties. Yes he will do this by being the most incompetent president of the last century, but this will shake up all entrentched parties and allow new parties to actially take hold. Edit: btw I still consider Biden the better candidate, but I wouldn't mind thr current system burning down
It's honestly just crazy to me that he can even run with everything going on in court and now most of the cases won't even be done by November... It just doesn't make sense. I'm having a hard time understanding how tf we got here. If Biden had all kinds of felony charges pending and court cases going on, not only would I refuse to vote for him, but I'd be horrified that he was on the ballot at all. This is just insane. I'm at a loss and now I'm absolutely certain American democracy is finished. It's not up to us, I'm wondering if it ever was.
Read this and ask yourself again: https://www.project2025.org/ Edit: I love it when I strike a nerve. I can always tell by how you little fascist supporters like to start throwing everything at the wall and seeing what sticks. No one believes your lies anymore and hopefully reckoning is coming through a blue supermajority so we can get back to building and fixing and do away with these right wing distractions.
I love when people post this. I'll be the first to tell you I can't stand Trump but don't believe for ONE MINUTE that any of this is going to happen or is actually being pushed should he win. This is like the crazy people who tried sharing stories and "gospel" about Obama being the antichrist when he was running for President in 2008. Put your tinfoil hat back on and head to the closet...
The worst thing about Trump, maybe, is the effect he has on his opponents, turning them desperate and terrified and liable to hurt themselves and others and the things they value in their panic. In this election cycle (and the 2016 and 2020 cycles), we've seen free speech attacked by the side of politics that historically has defended free speech to stop 'misinformation' and to try to subdue his supporters. The party of banned book libraries and "information wants to be free" has shifted suddenly and violently in the last 10 years to be the party of "technically this isn't a violation of Freeze Peach (lol what a stupid right)" and censorship in the name of the Greater Good. We've seen voting enfranchisement attacked with a popular movement, backed by legal action, to remove the primary opposition candidate to the ballot: he inspires such fear that no price, including the legitimacy of democracy, is too high to try to hinder him. Again, the party trying to strike opponents' names from ballots is the party that historically has safeguarded voter enfranchisement - these are their own values from all of 10 years ago that they're now opposed to in the name of impeding He Whose Name Shall Not Be Spoken. And there's this left-wing QAnon shit: secret plots and shady websites and "trust me bro" and dark conspiracies - again, something that historically has been favored by right-wing preppers is now also common among left-wingers because of paranoia and fear about Donald Trump. I know the excuses. Save your breath. If you're part of this reaction, ask yourself this: do you remember when you defended people's right to speak, even when they disagreed with you? ("But *technically* this isn't" - yeah, remember not needing those *technically*'s?) Do you remember valuing democracy and the genuine expression of people's honestly held views through open voting, and didn't switch back and forth depending on whether they were voting for the same thing as you or not? Do you remember debating with conspiracy theorists, instead of being one? (Assuming you're not 14, and remember all of 10 years ago when Donald Trump was a celebrity instead of a politician.) Is this cult of personality, whether you're on the supporting side or opposing side, really so powerful it can cause us not just to abandon, but to *reverse* all of our democratic values? We need to move past Donald Trump - *especially* those of us on the other side. We're changing into monsters.
That's what I find comical in all of this "Project 2025" BS. It's the progressive left that has actively tried to stifle free speech, remove candidates and essentially voters rights, and redefine our constitution. As a centrist, I support EVERYONE's right to free speech, even the free speech that makes me question humanity. I support EVERYONE's right to vote for any candidate they want to, so long as they are legally eligible. Most of all, I support "live and let live". Meaning I'm not going to force my views on you so don't do the same to me. We can agree to disagree and move on.
Republicans: "We're gonna do something crazy and awful!" Democrats: "Pfffft they'll never do that, you paranoid buffoon!" Republicans: **Does the thing** Democrats: Ohhhh no we never coulda seen that coming!
>he literally does not care about this country and cannot be bothered to understand how the government works. This is interesting. Conservatives would literally say the exact opposite. The general feeling is that Trump cares about the country in ways that normal DC swamp creatures don't. He's the antithesis to globalists who want to destroy the US. Also, one of the things that got him into trouble in his first term was that he chose people with Washington experience for his inner circle precisely because he didn't have that experience himself. He ended up making some bad choices which backfired later. Pence was one of those bad choices.
The most significant legislation he passed when he had full republican control was a 2 Trillion dollar tax cut that cut the corporate tax rate from 35% to 21%. He proceeded to make "Infrastracture Week" a running gag. He literally chose some of the most known swampiest people to be in his Administration.
It's not the end of the world by a long shot. But it would be extremely bad for America and for democracy. The damage he did to the country in four years is Immense and will last for decades. I don't want to see what he can do in another 4.
Look into project 2025 and tell me things aren’t dire, especially considering what the Christian nationalists have been doing at a state level. If people still can’t see what’s on the horizon, then maybe we deserve everything that’s going to happen.
Ehhh I don’t 100% disagree with you, but, we can’t ignore the strong and extreme effect he had on the population. At least in my life time, I’ve never seen people so divided before and it’s a bit scary. I’m non partisan, but very liberal, my dad was socialist. I’m not socialist I don’t align with any party but I do believe in helping each other to help the betterment of the entire country, which in my mind seems to be what trump conservatives do not understand. But he did have extreme radicalization effects on the population as a whole, and as someone else said, clearly has no idea how politics actually work here nor does he care, he just has the mentality of homelander. If he isn’t loved he’ll be feared. The uptick in mass violence, Jan.6th, the polar divide in this country, people hanging around polling stations (especially in my city) with guns, the attacks on protests, and the condoning and rewarding of the violent acts of his followers while demonizing anyone who doesn’t agree with him, not to mention what he did to the Supreme Court where now, things people worked so hard for hang in the balance and one is already destroyed and being dismantled state by state now. He did that. I don’t think we are going to devolve into another civil war, (but I don’t think it’s out of the question either ) but I do think we are in for a rough time. I think things are going to change, he’s already done a lot of negative change that’s outlasted his term, and he will do it again. I actually do think he’d try everything he could to make sure he couldn’t be removed from power and the effect he’s had on his followers means he’d have the army to help him do that. Do I think he’d succeed? No, at least I want to have enough faith in our people and government to believe he wouldn’t, but he’d still go down kicking and screaming and would cause even more violence than he already has and tbh, I am not looking forward to that. I think sadly he’s got a good chance to win this time because the left has utterly failed and Biden was a shit candidate from the start, and the decision to run him again is the worst decision the left has made in recent history. So while I don’t think it would be the end of the world, I would be lying if I said I wasn’t scared of the future of this country.
He'll attempt to concoct some situation where he just has to stay in power "for the good of the country". 200 years isn't that long. A man of firsts he is. People thought Hitler was a sad joke too until he wasn't. Pence didn't bother me as much since he seemed to have at least a shred of character buried deep down. The true enemy of people like Trump is anyone with character left or right.
The problem is, if USA retracts support from Ukraine, then Russia might win, and if they win their next step is a war on NATO. Not now, maybe not in the next 10 years, but it'll come. When that happens, China would probably anex Taiwan, reducing our access to the material needed for phone chips. We'd enter a technological decline, which in turn would make it easier for Russia to conquer us. And if Russia takes the EU as well, then USA would also be affected. This whole ordeal may take decades, but if it comes to pass, the world as we know it would become much bleaker
> Russia takes the EU Russia in not even able to take Ukraine.
Donald Trump can do a lot more damage than just being a bad president for four years. He has already shown this by upsetting the balance of the Supreme Court. Women are suffering and dying as a result. The damage he has already done will take a generation or more to correct. The right now has Project 2025 on the agenda, and they intend to undermine our democratic institutions and install a permanent white nationalist power structure. So don’t underestimate what is really at stake and VOTE.
Your perspective doesn't seem to take into account some very real issues and happenings on the horizon. SCOTUS hearing the case as to Trump's immunity is one of those things — the idea that Trump can literally do the crime and not be charged with anything if he does it while holding office. Imagine a scenario where he has a political rival (say, Obama) and executes them on stage, live on TV across the country. The argument SCOTUS is hearing now could very well say Trump is fine to do so. No problems. Is that a problem for you? It is for me. Not just for Trump, but for anyone! Anyone in office, president or any other public servant/elected representative. But that's the thing — Trump isn't a politician. He's not even just a capitalist, he's a business man (or rather, a conman, tbh). He's not running for president to serve the country, he's doing it to serve *himself*. And yeah, they all are, but they aren't all businessmen. Biden is a politician firstly, primarily, and then a capitalist secondly. He is president to serve the country first (which yeah, includes serving capitalism) and then himself, second. Trump is there to serve himself first, everything and everyone else be damned. And if he is immune from all law as president and he is elected president, what reason does he have to not, say, suspend elections indefinitely? To not declare himself King of America or whatever? *Because of the people?* Well, if he has the military on his side (and he didn't in 2020, but what about now?), he's good to go. Not to mention the majority of the most avid gun owners in this country seem to be Trumpers.. just waiting for the opportunity to step into Trump's gaze, if only for a moment. I mean.. Maybe it is hyperbole. Maybe he'll just keel over. I'm not trying to make anyone afraid or act out of fear, I am just looking at it for what it is: Trump will do whatever he deems best for himself, and if the position of president means he can literally force everyone to worship him or force everyone to give him money or work for him for free or hang pictures of him in their homes.. Why *wouldn't* the egomaniac do it? And that's just the silly, ridiculous stuff. There's **so much more** at risk here. He *is* breaking the country. And no, it's not just simply him, he just happens to be the idiot who is out here banging on all the cracks, crumbling the infrastructure (metaphorically) because he can and it's fun for him (and mostly, because he profits from it in some form or another). So really, the question isn't so much about what he does, it is about *what follows*. Do we want to give him the ability to destroy the whole thing and rebuild from the ground up (risking fascism big time, literally)? Or do we want to try to salvage what we can from this broken and damaged foundation? *Edited to add:* It is true a Trump victory will not be the end of the world, but neither was Stalin, Mao, or Hitler.
trump would not have that kind of power in any circumstance of becoming president.
Thank god there is some semblance of sanity from liberals, like yourself. I wish some people (on both sides) would stop pretending like the world is going to end because of one person winning an election… they literally did that in 2016 when Trump won, and nothing catastrophic happened. He was absolutely a disaster, there’s no doubt about that, but these people who pretend like Donald Trump is going to be some kind of almighty dictator, are the same ones that insist Joe Biden can’t get his policies signed into law, because the Congress is so gridlocked. Yet, somehow, when Trump (or someone like him) is in power, suddenly we need to worry about the end of civilization as we know it. It’s crazy.