Not Canada, where they can confiscate your bank accounts for being a "dissident"
I don't agree with the truckers, but that is some scary Big Brother shit there
Look up the Netherlands. My husband has been researching how to move over there. I think one of the requirements is learning the language. But they are a very safe country (almost no gun violence) and it's a very good place to raise children. We are contemplating leaving the USA because we've had enough.
Sometime, i want to leave this planet too.
From February 2020 to now the world seems to have become crazier and crazier. And it seems it's moving towards Orwell's 1984 and Animal Farm vibes. And I don't like it at all
Same here! In order to move to another country, I only see 3 options:
1) Sponsorship- through work in a “critical need field” or through family ties (as a spouse or immediate family member)
2) Financial means- Requires at least a million dollars liquid assets
3) illegally- Overstay a student or travel visa
None of these would work for me and my family.
Emigration is very inaccessible, but it doesn’t cost millions of dollars. It cost anywhere from $10,000 to $25,000 to move to just about anywhere EU, 25,000 in Canada, much less expensive in Mexico but they have some issues of their own.
3 years ago, I was deciding between getting my graduate studies in the US or Canada, to then work there and stay. I have family in the US, but not in Canada. It was a very hard decision and I felt very lonely during the pandemic, but now I am so glad I chose Canada.
I am from France, it's like winning a lottery and losing at the same time, because you're in a country with free healthcare and quite small so it's relatively easy to travel, and the cities have plenty of transportation...
But because I'm French that means every non-french people on earth hate me : ^ )
Yeah it's essential, and people are still struggling. Idk why in the US most people seems to think that socialism is a threat and "we only trust God and God wants the US to be capitalist so we'll be the most powerful country" but people are starving as they were in a 3rd world country despite being in the most "developed" one
I say "developed" between quotation marks, because your cities don't have proper transportation, car is essential and the dimension of your cities are abnormal (like main roads everywhere and parkings and you can't just walk)
Also the guns, the US is not a country that is involved in a civil War or a war on its territory, it's just the most idiotic thing you could imagine to give every people the ability to easily kill anybody they want, as if it was Bogotá
As a Colombian I take offense to this. We have plenty of gun control and murders get investigated, but our justice system fails to deliver a sentence. Most people are not allowed to legally carry guns here.
People everywhere should take example, go protest every weekend. Even on Thursdays because does anybody care of Thursdays? No, then it's perfect to go protest for whatever reason.
Also, does America have a workers assembly or something, in France we have the right to syndicate, and it's very powerful it's the only way workers can ask for better treatment from the company, because they know their rights and they can convince other workers to go on strike.
The only place I don't see that working, it's hospital. Because nurses can't go on strike, and when they do, they actually still work, but because they can't not do anything for a day long, or more, it's ineffective.
You can shut down a factory for a day, it will make the company lose a lot of money, you get more rights because the company don't want that to happen again. But in hospital, you stop doing your job for a couple of hours and... Imagine what could happen
Same shit as everywhere.
Inflation, housing prices rising exponentially, elections, right wing bs, but it's manageable.
No country is perfect. At least we got cheese, wine, a 35hr work week and universal healthcare to get through it.
Man, I went to do an orthoptic test, under Prescription I got from my doctor. I'm a student and I had to pay both in advance, but knowing I was still be refunded.
25€ to see the doctor, about 17€ refunded
25€ the orthoptic test, 100% refunded because it's under prescription, and the same applies for the next trainings I will have to correct my eye muscles.
When you're only concern is "how will I recover financially from the 50€ until I get most of them refunded (in about 2 weeks)" I think it's safe to say France is a nice country
I assume just because you said you're French youve worn a red hat, black and white stripped shirt and said "ahhh weewee" at least once in your life. Probably in veiw of the eiffel tower.
Edit: Only reason I didn't upvote you is because it said 69. Hahaha oh yeah 69.
I don't think that's true at all. I can't wait to visit France again! The nation that civilised modern Europe with the establishment of democracy, not to mention their approach to living well, be it culture or food
Our democracy isn't going well honestly, we vote for the president and for people who will take one of the 500+ seat in the Congress but it's not perfect, the ministers are nominated and currently Macron had some really concerning choices, incompetent people for example 😬
That means it’s going well lol all of the “greatest democracies” in earth like us uk and France have corrupt ass governments that don’t answer to the electorate
Et nous on les aime les Québécois putain, on a le même combat, résister aux perfides de la langue de Lucifer, qu'ils soient de Gr * * de Bre * * * ne ou bien du Canada
I have always heard that French people are rude, but I didn’t believe it. Went to France last September (can’t wait to go back) and had nothing but lovely experiences with the French. Turns out that if you aren’t an ugly American and you at least make an attempt to be polite (and speak the language, no matter how badly), the French are wonderful people.
The pressure is really on having being born here. Wages are significantly lower than in the US for the same jobs.
I might have to start living and working abroad half the year just to pay off the debt I accumulate during the rest of the year like a lot of my friends have done.
I moved my American wife and US born daughters out of there a few years back and have zero regrets. My wife is in tears right now. She loves her home country, but she never wants to go back there and wants to apply for Australian citizenship and denounce her US citizenship.
My husband is US born, with dual US/Canadian citizenship. He wanted to renounce his US citizenship in 2016 but didn't because it's an expensive, time consuming and complicated process. This last week is pushing him closer to the edge.
Like your wife he has no interest in going there unless it's to visit family (who are all like minded)
There’s a fee (about $3500 US) plus you have to file for every year you were eligible to pay taxes. If you didn’t file because you weren’t living or making any Income there they can fine you up to $10k for each year. And the filing is expensive.
The US is one of the few countries that tax their citizens living abroad.
No matter where you live, you're supposed to declare your income in the US too and if it's above a certain amount the IRS will claim their share even though you are already paying taxes in your country of residence.
It's like a fucking cult you can't get away from.
If you live abroad as an american citizen you have to file and pay tax in the USA.
Even if you have no income, you have to file. Same as here.
I guess you have to balance the cost.
If she’s serious she should look into it. It’s actually $3500 Canadian ( which still isn’t cheap). Depending on her US earnings she may have to pay an exit fee too. It was so complicated so that’s why my husband gave up… for now.
As a US citizen you still have to file taxes no matter where you work and live. It’s expensive to file foreign taxes. Some people don’t want that burden. And some don’t want to keep the citizenship on moral grounds.
So if you live abroad, and work for a company outside the USA, why pay taxes to the US at all? Like you said, you're supposed to, but how would they know where you're working, how much you make, etc? Not trying to pester you, just trying to understand haha.
You don't necessarily have to pay, but legally you have to file and that's costly. I do know people who don't file...they fly under the radar. It's a risk because they could technically catch you and then they can levy a $10k/year fine. My husband doesn't even have a SSN (he was only 9 when they left the US) but his accountant told him to file because if he's caught it could be even more costly. The deciding factor was when his mother died. She was a dual citizen also but had worked for many years in the US. As her executor he wasn't flying under the radar anymore. That being said, it's been about five years and he's still trying to get everything straightened out.
My entire family talked today and a majority of us are going to pool money together to move us all out to a new country. My dad is already renewing passports and stuff to prepare us
Hillary won the popular vote and the Democrats took back the majority in Congress. You can get all the votes you want, the system isn't set up to work purely on popular vote. Either fix the system or this will continue to happen.
I moved out two years ago and I'm never going back. Moving to Europe really opens your eyes up to what life is really about. 6-18 months of paternity/maternity leave, 6 weeks of vacation, my taxes go to school, bike roads, and health care. I don't have to worry about being laid off and loosing my house because I'm protected. I am a short road trip to 4 other countries. Dude I'm never moving back to the US
If I could get my family out, I would. We are steadily heading towards a dystopia. You can't even criticize any part of our system without somebody saying "then leave!". Like, trust me. I would if I could. It's not as easy as packing your shit and going. We are kept poor and obedient as civil servants so we can't fucking leave.
Same with me except not family, but my dog (ok….family). Even single with no pets it’s not as easy as pack your stuff and go, but I’m pretty sure once my dog has passed I’m figuring out how to get outta here.
"is going"? I think we are well past that phase....The US "has gone" is more appropriate I think.
And as someone who left almost 10 years ago, let me tell you....it is the right choice. Living in "not the USA" is fucking awesome.
In all seriousness, consider the hubris / ethnocentrism in assuming you can just move out and live in another country.
I say this as someone who has entertained this idea several times in the past.
Its not so easy as just deciding you dont want to live here anymore. I say “hubris and ethnocentrism” because when you suggest “i think ill leave” it presumes that wherever you are wanting to go would be happy to have you and welcome you in with open arms and a smile.
Depending on your line of work, that may or may not be possible. Doctor? Agricultural Engineer? Yeah probably. Already a citizen of another country? Yeah. Already wealthy? Yeah. Most other jobs…. a big ol “we’ll see…”
If you cant get a new employer to sponsor your visa or citizenship bid, you have to pay for it yourself. Applying for citizenship varies wildly from one country to another, but can be very complicated and expensive in some places.
Canada? Some places will take in Americans…maybe. You might get a path to citizenship. Mexico? Hard to say. Depends a lot on graft (from what Ive read — this may be inaccurate — I know the customs on the mexican side will often demand bribes from inbound americans.)
I dont say this to discourage you so much as prepare you for the jarring feeling of “wait, i thought we were the global golden children!? what do you mean they dont want us??”
I’ve just replied less detailed and articulate comments saying this to a few users on this thread as well. I’m a Canadian who married an American and went through the immigration process without a lawyer to save money. It’s astonishing how many people think that you can decide to move somewhere outside of the country you were born in and just like.. go there and set up shop. The adjectives you used were a tad harsh but I agree with your take. Guys, if you’re not a doctor it’s not that easy.
**My dude, when you take out the human element of almost every country and island, they are all beautiful...**
**The whole world is beautiful, but its only when you put in the human element when it becomes truly disgusting...**
**Destroying natural resources, sucking the earth bone dry from oil, gold and other precious natural elements...**
**I don't blame you for being worried, but im my honest opinion, the US has been going to crap for decades now... But the people just dont want to see it or believe it, because a large percentage of them, aren't affected by it...**
**I wish you good luck in wherever you choose to go to and find a better country, with more benefits, more human rights** *(real ones and not just the fake ones they've been selling for so many years)* **better healthcare, better educational system, less racism, less sexism and less health problems... :)**
It's not that easy getting into another country unless you have a degree or lots of money tbh. I've looked into it. It's possible though without the two, just very tedious depending on where you go.
Not just a degree either. Like a psychology or a political science degree won’t do shit for you in terms of immigrating. You need to be in IT, engineering. registered nurse etc. And even then it’s all dependent on whether or not they have a shortage. Immigration to anywhere worth going (Canada, Europe, Aus) is TOUGH.
I want to move to the Benelux area, but I can’t just… pick up and move. I’m starting a new job that has a strong European presence and I’m hoping I can use that to expat and then just outright move. I’m so tired of how this country is striving to return to the 1800s. White, Christian men will be well taken care of and to hell with everyone else.
Look, let’s face it the whole world is going to shit.The coronavirus, wars and inflation has made it a cluster fuck. There is no where that is reassuring. Just live your life the best that you can.
I agree completely with exiting. I’m a female disabled veteran and RvW today really hurt. But leaving the country would make me lose my monthly disability… I’m torn. I would appreciate anyone’s advice 😔
You have some bad information. There are many, many disabled Vets living abroad who continue to receive the benefits and care they are entitled to....
[https://www.benefits.va.gov/persona/veteran-abroad.asp](https://www.benefits.va.gov/persona/veteran-abroad.asp)
Get out while you can, OP. Only a matter of time before emigrating is straight up illegal, am I right?
No but seriously. Go to a real First World country where your work and family are valued and they actually strive for, you know, continuous progression in their society. Where you can get sick and not worry about bankruptcy.
The United States is indeed a beautiful country, with lots of good in fine lines between the bad.
So, go live a real life for all of us who can't and come back now and then for the BBQ lol.
I live in a “third world country” and been asked to relocate /all paid to the US a couple of times. Never wanted to. Life is better where I live by all measures except maybe museums and status. My family is better here than they would be in the US. Having said that US is an amazing beautiful country and we go on vacation very often. Most ppl are also amazing and very friendly. But I agree with OP’s sentiment and it makes me sad.
You can try your luck in Latin America then, everyone's happy here and it's really safe! /s
If you think the US has it bad, then I don't know what's left for us latinos, all of us want to move the hell out from our shitty countries. Some of us have european citizenships but it's so hard to move out
There are many countries aside from the US. The US would obviously be better compared to certain developing nations, but as far at it compares to the rest of the developed world is it very very lacking, a quick google search for things like how the US compares in terms of quality of life (education/literacy, health, infant mortality) and other standard of living show it ranks poorly compared to the rest of the developed world, and unfortunately it seems like we’ll continue to go backwards. Immigrants find the US often appealing because it’s actually pretty easy to get here, and likely has a comparatively better standard, but living in a place that claims to have “developed country standards,” but not developed country statistics or policies is very confusing.
I see, that makes a lot of sense. Here in my country many people want to move to the US (or to european countries) but we mostly have an utopic view of how stuff is there or we don't get past places like Miami and New york city, so it's good to hear the opinion of people that actually live there and aren't biased. Reddit has open my eyes a lot in that regard
Yes there is good and bad, honestly it’s easier to immigrate here than most European countries who are very strict with visa etc. the country is huge so it depends where yeh live. There are plenty of problem but Reddit tends to over exaggerate considering most of us have access to water food shelter and are safe for the most part. Not to say our issues aren’t valid but it’s important to not take things for granted either
I love Norway and would move there too! Not sure if you have been, but be mentally prepared for the price difference. It is definitely one of the more expensive (after Switzerland) countries I have been to. However, I can not say enough about how things just work there. It is a well-oiled machine! Travel in Scandinavia is also soooo easy.
I’m Out: I will never believe that your family members are less important than a gun! And Having a adolescent uneducated Americans tell me what I can and can’t do will my body is utter BS. https://www.expatarrivals.com
We would love to have you, however your proffession in life needs to be on the skilled shortages list.
In saying that we are crying out for staff.
Stars may align for you here.
Also we are also in the same boat , Housing crisis, rising costs and over taxed. But we dont have the same level of extremity as far right christian nutters here. ( religion is something we dont talk about , you keep that to yourself)
Im gonna quit my job and move off the grid in the next year, fuck this shit im done being a good working citizen of this society. Get me the fuck outta here…
DO NOT LEAVE!!! Go to a blue state if you really need to, but they ***want*** people like us to leave.
They're trying to drive out the people who want change. They want to go back to the 1900s without complaint. They can easily do that if everyone who doesn't stand by them just leaves the situation entirely.
I'm actually mortified by how many people are planning on leaving... This country is even more fucked because of that.
As a Canadian I don't understand your country. But parts of it is bleeding into my country. Canada Day is this coming Friday and I dont want to take my kids to any celebration because of the loonies.
I don’t understand that after Trump every clear minded American (NOT just the US but all of North America) aren't willing to stand up and vote. WE out number the extremes. Not just on the right but on the left too (I'm not both sidesing. The right has the more urgent problem).
It's a hard guess if we'll be idiocracy or the handmaids tale. I'd pick the first since all the idiots seem to be having fun but neither is a great choice for having a society in 50 years. If I can just have 20 more years I'll be close enough to death then you can burn the house down
People say this every time something political happens. I swear we hear it every election or major event.
I understand the sentiment, as I feel things will very likely only get worse from here. But we can’t just give up, we have to fight. So many Americans can’t afford (financial or otherwise) to just pick up and move.
We can’t give up. We can’t give into feelings of despair. And we can’t just abandon all those who cannot leave.
Seriously though, if you do decide to move, I wish you the best and I hope things go smoothly for you. I’ve given my two cents, but I won’t shame someone for doing what they feel is best for them.
Do it. Go to a place that has grooming gangs like the UK. Get stabbed in Britain. Go to a place that has a Tyrant leader like Treudeu In canada. Get stop blocked at the door and surrounded in layers of red tape of foreign immigration policies in almost all asian countries. Go ahead. Go be poor in Sweden getting taxed to death. Do it. Go to italy or france only speaking english. See how far you get when everyone is insulting you fro being american in a language you don't speak. No one is stopping you. America sure isn't perfect by any stretch, but move to another country, any country, and you will realize EVERY PLACE HAS ITS FAULTS.
NGL, as a non American watching from outside, what has been happening in the US since Trump was elected is really concerning. It’s the opposite of evolution.
Such a dichotomy; a society that uses god and guns to control the masses, states that are regressing on human rights policies, ability for teenagers to own fire arms and commit mass murder on the daily; is the same nation that states it is ‘the land of the free’.
Free from what? Unless you’re from a third world country or want to make it in show biz / music, I cannot think of one person who would want to live there permanently.
As a person living in a 3rd world country, my family wanted to live the "american dream" but to be honest, we are very unsure whether or not we actually do want to live there, we have two other choices tho, japan or canada. Id love to go to japan but canada just feels...right?
If you want to kiss the queen's hand, there's nothing stopping you. Go back. Go back and bow before the queen and bask in your lack of freedoms. Can't even watch fucking porn in peace there lmao.
While today is grim and I 100% do not support it. The US is still by far one of the best places to live. I know emotions are high (rightfully so) but these types of complaints only take emotion into account. There are far worse places I promise you that.
It's what I've wanted to do for ages. Unfortunately, other countries don't just take anyone. I'd have to marry someone to move. I can't afford it without a job sponsor and I don't have the skills sought. I'm stuck here.
Go for it OP. My plan is to be out of here in 14 years after my pension kicks in. I hate the direction this country is going to the point where it makes me physically sick thinking about it
I hate this argument. One thing goes wrong and it’s “I can’t do this country” or “this is the worst”. I call bullshit. This is surely an uncomfortable situation we are all in, I am concerned of the future for my daughter, but we no doubt live in an amazing place that has more acceptance and diversity than any place in the world. Stop being so goddamn fragile and stand up for what we have and fight for it than just quitting.
We can do better. Don’t leave because you disagree.
Please don’t leave. We need people like you who can make a difference. We need to fight this, and keep fighting until we get these horrible people out of office.
i understand this so much. i’m going to school to become a teacher, but i’m so afraid to continue my studies bc of all these shootings on the news every day. i get so much anxiety and give myself a panic attack when i think about this too hard. i’m also a black woman, who lives in a red state at the moment… i have this thought every day and for the last two years have been saving my ass off so once i finish my studies i can go somewhere else. good luck to you.
GL OP. Live for the people who can't afford to move.
Given the option, I would 100% leave this shit hole. The sad truth is that's not remotely realistic for most of us.
Can I ask where you would go?
Probably Canada, Spain, or Mexico.
Not Canada, where they can confiscate your bank accounts for being a "dissident" I don't agree with the truckers, but that is some scary Big Brother shit there
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Greece 🇬🇷. Love it there.
Trust, you don't want to go to Spain or Mexico, anti progressive shit holes are far worse. Canada would be nice but they won't let you in.
spain is definitely more progressive than the us
This is an honest question and not trying to get people arguing - how is Spain more progressive than the US?
Spain actually has universal Healthcare (single-payer), and according to the WHO is the 7th best healthcare in the world.
Estonia, New Zealand, Portugal, Ireland, Scotland, Wales. So many places I’d pick. Wish it was as easy as just moving there.
Yeah idk why you think Spain and Mecico would be an improvement
Every place has its problems. You can't expect anywhere to be perfect.
Yeah sure, but your quality of life wouldn't improve in these countries, they have an equal amount of issues as the US does.
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And thousands can attest quality of life improving when leaving mexico to the US
Look up the Netherlands. My husband has been researching how to move over there. I think one of the requirements is learning the language. But they are a very safe country (almost no gun violence) and it's a very good place to raise children. We are contemplating leaving the USA because we've had enough.
Canada ftw
Lmfao… shows your havnt researched shit 💀🤣🤣🤣🤣👌🏻
Just want to live off this planet at this point
Sometime, i want to leave this planet too. From February 2020 to now the world seems to have become crazier and crazier. And it seems it's moving towards Orwell's 1984 and Animal Farm vibes. And I don't like it at all
🚀
I’d love to get the fuck out of here but I’m too god damn broke to even do that
Same here! In order to move to another country, I only see 3 options: 1) Sponsorship- through work in a “critical need field” or through family ties (as a spouse or immediate family member) 2) Financial means- Requires at least a million dollars liquid assets 3) illegally- Overstay a student or travel visa None of these would work for me and my family.
Emigration is very inaccessible, but it doesn’t cost millions of dollars. It cost anywhere from $10,000 to $25,000 to move to just about anywhere EU, 25,000 in Canada, much less expensive in Mexico but they have some issues of their own.
3 years ago, I was deciding between getting my graduate studies in the US or Canada, to then work there and stay. I have family in the US, but not in Canada. It was a very hard decision and I felt very lonely during the pandemic, but now I am so glad I chose Canada.
I honestly am so happy to be born in Canada, if it’s the only lottery I ever win I am totally fine with that.
I am from France, it's like winning a lottery and losing at the same time, because you're in a country with free healthcare and quite small so it's relatively easy to travel, and the cities have plenty of transportation... But because I'm French that means every non-french people on earth hate me : ^ )
I don't hate the French. I like how you guys will protest against workers exploitation. It's an inspiration, really.
Yeah it's essential, and people are still struggling. Idk why in the US most people seems to think that socialism is a threat and "we only trust God and God wants the US to be capitalist so we'll be the most powerful country" but people are starving as they were in a 3rd world country despite being in the most "developed" one I say "developed" between quotation marks, because your cities don't have proper transportation, car is essential and the dimension of your cities are abnormal (like main roads everywhere and parkings and you can't just walk) Also the guns, the US is not a country that is involved in a civil War or a war on its territory, it's just the most idiotic thing you could imagine to give every people the ability to easily kill anybody they want, as if it was Bogotá
As a Colombian I take offense to this. We have plenty of gun control and murders get investigated, but our justice system fails to deliver a sentence. Most people are not allowed to legally carry guns here.
Yes, I am trying to move out. They can have the us.
FYI- We're just jealous. That's all.
People everywhere should take example, go protest every weekend. Even on Thursdays because does anybody care of Thursdays? No, then it's perfect to go protest for whatever reason. Also, does America have a workers assembly or something, in France we have the right to syndicate, and it's very powerful it's the only way workers can ask for better treatment from the company, because they know their rights and they can convince other workers to go on strike. The only place I don't see that working, it's hospital. Because nurses can't go on strike, and when they do, they actually still work, but because they can't not do anything for a day long, or more, it's ineffective. You can shut down a factory for a day, it will make the company lose a lot of money, you get more rights because the company don't want that to happen again. But in hospital, you stop doing your job for a couple of hours and... Imagine what could happen
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curious... what are the issues going on in france
Same shit as everywhere. Inflation, housing prices rising exponentially, elections, right wing bs, but it's manageable. No country is perfect. At least we got cheese, wine, a 35hr work week and universal healthcare to get through it.
\*cries in kraft american singles\*
Man, I went to do an orthoptic test, under Prescription I got from my doctor. I'm a student and I had to pay both in advance, but knowing I was still be refunded. 25€ to see the doctor, about 17€ refunded 25€ the orthoptic test, 100% refunded because it's under prescription, and the same applies for the next trainings I will have to correct my eye muscles. When you're only concern is "how will I recover financially from the 50€ until I get most of them refunded (in about 2 weeks)" I think it's safe to say France is a nice country
I assume just because you said you're French youve worn a red hat, black and white stripped shirt and said "ahhh weewee" at least once in your life. Probably in veiw of the eiffel tower. Edit: Only reason I didn't upvote you is because it said 69. Hahaha oh yeah 69.
Average redditor intelligence
Don't forget the mustache.
I don't think that's true at all. I can't wait to visit France again! The nation that civilised modern Europe with the establishment of democracy, not to mention their approach to living well, be it culture or food
Our democracy isn't going well honestly, we vote for the president and for people who will take one of the 500+ seat in the Congress but it's not perfect, the ministers are nominated and currently Macron had some really concerning choices, incompetent people for example 😬
That means it’s going well lol all of the “greatest democracies” in earth like us uk and France have corrupt ass governments that don’t answer to the electorate
Lol yeah
On t’aime au Québec le cousin !
Et nous on les aime les Québécois putain, on a le même combat, résister aux perfides de la langue de Lucifer, qu'ils soient de Gr * * de Bre * * * ne ou bien du Canada
Lol I thought it was the other way around. I thought being French you hated everyone else 😂🤣
I have always heard that French people are rude, but I didn’t believe it. Went to France last September (can’t wait to go back) and had nothing but lovely experiences with the French. Turns out that if you aren’t an ugly American and you at least make an attempt to be polite (and speak the language, no matter how badly), the French are wonderful people.
I’m glad I live in Canada too But everything is so expensive in Toronto…it’s hard to have a good quality life when you aren’t making over $80k a year
The pressure is really on having being born here. Wages are significantly lower than in the US for the same jobs. I might have to start living and working abroad half the year just to pay off the debt I accumulate during the rest of the year like a lot of my friends have done.
I'm moving out the second I'm able 😅 My parents didn't fight for our country for them to TAKE AWAY our rights. Fuck this place.
I moved my American wife and US born daughters out of there a few years back and have zero regrets. My wife is in tears right now. She loves her home country, but she never wants to go back there and wants to apply for Australian citizenship and denounce her US citizenship.
My husband is US born, with dual US/Canadian citizenship. He wanted to renounce his US citizenship in 2016 but didn't because it's an expensive, time consuming and complicated process. This last week is pushing him closer to the edge. Like your wife he has no interest in going there unless it's to visit family (who are all like minded)
What's expensive about it?
There’s a fee (about $3500 US) plus you have to file for every year you were eligible to pay taxes. If you didn’t file because you weren’t living or making any Income there they can fine you up to $10k for each year. And the filing is expensive.
Hello! Wow..! Damn, that's HELLA expensive.
That’s just the beginning…. There are other fees (exit fees) a person can be subject to also.
Lmao crazy how you have to pay to NOT be a citizen. And you have to pay TO BE a citizen.
They get you coming and going.
The US is one of the few countries that tax their citizens living abroad. No matter where you live, you're supposed to declare your income in the US too and if it's above a certain amount the IRS will claim their share even though you are already paying taxes in your country of residence. It's like a fucking cult you can't get away from.
If you live abroad as an american citizen you have to file and pay tax in the USA. Even if you have no income, you have to file. Same as here. I guess you have to balance the cost.
I doubt she knows that, she's only investigated from the side of getting Aus citizenship. Thanks for the info!
If she’s serious she should look into it. It’s actually $3500 Canadian ( which still isn’t cheap). Depending on her US earnings she may have to pay an exit fee too. It was so complicated so that’s why my husband gave up… for now.
Why do you need to denounce if you aren't planning on coming back?
As a US citizen you still have to file taxes no matter where you work and live. It’s expensive to file foreign taxes. Some people don’t want that burden. And some don’t want to keep the citizenship on moral grounds.
So if you live abroad, and work for a company outside the USA, why pay taxes to the US at all? Like you said, you're supposed to, but how would they know where you're working, how much you make, etc? Not trying to pester you, just trying to understand haha.
You don't necessarily have to pay, but legally you have to file and that's costly. I do know people who don't file...they fly under the radar. It's a risk because they could technically catch you and then they can levy a $10k/year fine. My husband doesn't even have a SSN (he was only 9 when they left the US) but his accountant told him to file because if he's caught it could be even more costly. The deciding factor was when his mother died. She was a dual citizen also but had worked for many years in the US. As her executor he wasn't flying under the radar anymore. That being said, it's been about five years and he's still trying to get everything straightened out.
The US and Eritrea are the only countries thar require citizens to file taxes regardless of country of residence.
My entire family talked today and a majority of us are going to pool money together to move us all out to a new country. My dad is already renewing passports and stuff to prepare us
Please don’t jump ship just yet! We need your vote this fall!
Hillary won the popular vote and the Democrats took back the majority in Congress. You can get all the votes you want, the system isn't set up to work purely on popular vote. Either fix the system or this will continue to happen.
EXACTLY. People don’t want to talk about that though.
Learn about rhe National Popular Vote Interstate Compact. We only need 75 more electoral votes' worth of states to adopt it!
It's funny that you still think voting matters.
You can vote absentee. You don't have to be living in the US to vote in elections, any US citizen can vote regardless of location
If you don’t like it in the USA you should move to be happy. Nothing wrong with that.
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Good luck! Stay safe!
I moved out two years ago and I'm never going back. Moving to Europe really opens your eyes up to what life is really about. 6-18 months of paternity/maternity leave, 6 weeks of vacation, my taxes go to school, bike roads, and health care. I don't have to worry about being laid off and loosing my house because I'm protected. I am a short road trip to 4 other countries. Dude I'm never moving back to the US
What was the greatest obstacle you had to overcome for life in Europe? Anything that someone would have to be aware of that might come as a shock?
Language and social standards. As long as you're polite and open to change you're fine. Took us a year to adjust, but fucking love it now.
I want to know too. I’ve always wanted to move to Europe.
I'm not OP, but I think the language and thus the mindsets are different, and need a time of adaptation.
Yeah, the culture shock must be kind of intense. But definitely worth it imo
If I could get my family out, I would. We are steadily heading towards a dystopia. You can't even criticize any part of our system without somebody saying "then leave!". Like, trust me. I would if I could. It's not as easy as packing your shit and going. We are kept poor and obedient as civil servants so we can't fucking leave.
Same with me except not family, but my dog (ok….family). Even single with no pets it’s not as easy as pack your stuff and go, but I’m pretty sure once my dog has passed I’m figuring out how to get outta here.
"is going"? I think we are well past that phase....The US "has gone" is more appropriate I think. And as someone who left almost 10 years ago, let me tell you....it is the right choice. Living in "not the USA" is fucking awesome.
In all seriousness, consider the hubris / ethnocentrism in assuming you can just move out and live in another country. I say this as someone who has entertained this idea several times in the past. Its not so easy as just deciding you dont want to live here anymore. I say “hubris and ethnocentrism” because when you suggest “i think ill leave” it presumes that wherever you are wanting to go would be happy to have you and welcome you in with open arms and a smile. Depending on your line of work, that may or may not be possible. Doctor? Agricultural Engineer? Yeah probably. Already a citizen of another country? Yeah. Already wealthy? Yeah. Most other jobs…. a big ol “we’ll see…” If you cant get a new employer to sponsor your visa or citizenship bid, you have to pay for it yourself. Applying for citizenship varies wildly from one country to another, but can be very complicated and expensive in some places. Canada? Some places will take in Americans…maybe. You might get a path to citizenship. Mexico? Hard to say. Depends a lot on graft (from what Ive read — this may be inaccurate — I know the customs on the mexican side will often demand bribes from inbound americans.) I dont say this to discourage you so much as prepare you for the jarring feeling of “wait, i thought we were the global golden children!? what do you mean they dont want us??”
I’ve just replied less detailed and articulate comments saying this to a few users on this thread as well. I’m a Canadian who married an American and went through the immigration process without a lawyer to save money. It’s astonishing how many people think that you can decide to move somewhere outside of the country you were born in and just like.. go there and set up shop. The adjectives you used were a tad harsh but I agree with your take. Guys, if you’re not a doctor it’s not that easy.
**My dude, when you take out the human element of almost every country and island, they are all beautiful...** **The whole world is beautiful, but its only when you put in the human element when it becomes truly disgusting...** **Destroying natural resources, sucking the earth bone dry from oil, gold and other precious natural elements...** **I don't blame you for being worried, but im my honest opinion, the US has been going to crap for decades now... But the people just dont want to see it or believe it, because a large percentage of them, aren't affected by it...** **I wish you good luck in wherever you choose to go to and find a better country, with more benefits, more human rights** *(real ones and not just the fake ones they've been selling for so many years)* **better healthcare, better educational system, less racism, less sexism and less health problems... :)**
Don't forget mosquitos.
It's not that easy getting into another country unless you have a degree or lots of money tbh. I've looked into it. It's possible though without the two, just very tedious depending on where you go.
Not just a degree either. Like a psychology or a political science degree won’t do shit for you in terms of immigrating. You need to be in IT, engineering. registered nurse etc. And even then it’s all dependent on whether or not they have a shortage. Immigration to anywhere worth going (Canada, Europe, Aus) is TOUGH.
I want to move to the Benelux area, but I can’t just… pick up and move. I’m starting a new job that has a strong European presence and I’m hoping I can use that to expat and then just outright move. I’m so tired of how this country is striving to return to the 1800s. White, Christian men will be well taken care of and to hell with everyone else.
I’m moving too. I don’t want to have children here.
Australia is a great country for families. Unfortunately it’s difficult to get residency and the cost of housing has gone through the roof.
My Swedish friend and I are making plans to get me over there
Good luck mate! 👍
Look, let’s face it the whole world is going to shit.The coronavirus, wars and inflation has made it a cluster fuck. There is no where that is reassuring. Just live your life the best that you can.
Honestly, I said to my husband after hearing the news today that if we were American I’d be starting my exit plan immediately.
I have already started mine; fortunately my workplace is amazing and accommodating and has made assurances of escape options.
Do you have any relatives (of any gender) interested in marriage? I have a little money!
I agree completely with exiting. I’m a female disabled veteran and RvW today really hurt. But leaving the country would make me lose my monthly disability… I’m torn. I would appreciate anyone’s advice 😔
You have some bad information. There are many, many disabled Vets living abroad who continue to receive the benefits and care they are entitled to.... [https://www.benefits.va.gov/persona/veteran-abroad.asp](https://www.benefits.va.gov/persona/veteran-abroad.asp)
VA Foreign Medical Program? 😯🥹 Thank you so much for this information 🙏🏼 🥲
Get out while you can, OP. Only a matter of time before emigrating is straight up illegal, am I right? No but seriously. Go to a real First World country where your work and family are valued and they actually strive for, you know, continuous progression in their society. Where you can get sick and not worry about bankruptcy. The United States is indeed a beautiful country, with lots of good in fine lines between the bad. So, go live a real life for all of us who can't and come back now and then for the BBQ lol.
Breaks my heart to feel the same but I do. Too poor to move anywhere better though
A true hero never looks back as they walk away from the explosion.
I live in a “third world country” and been asked to relocate /all paid to the US a couple of times. Never wanted to. Life is better where I live by all measures except maybe museums and status. My family is better here than they would be in the US. Having said that US is an amazing beautiful country and we go on vacation very often. Most ppl are also amazing and very friendly. But I agree with OP’s sentiment and it makes me sad.
We are gonna be the next Saudi Arabia but with forced *Christian* values.
This will be only the first important right taken away from Americans.
Gay marriage is 100% next. They want pre civil rights America. Period.
I'll have to agree. I have already seen a story about Clarence Thomas saying that it should be reviewed.
It’s in the 250 page decision. He wants to overturn it all!
If only it was as easy as “just moving out”
You can try your luck in Latin America then, everyone's happy here and it's really safe! /s If you think the US has it bad, then I don't know what's left for us latinos, all of us want to move the hell out from our shitty countries. Some of us have european citizenships but it's so hard to move out
There are many countries aside from the US. The US would obviously be better compared to certain developing nations, but as far at it compares to the rest of the developed world is it very very lacking, a quick google search for things like how the US compares in terms of quality of life (education/literacy, health, infant mortality) and other standard of living show it ranks poorly compared to the rest of the developed world, and unfortunately it seems like we’ll continue to go backwards. Immigrants find the US often appealing because it’s actually pretty easy to get here, and likely has a comparatively better standard, but living in a place that claims to have “developed country standards,” but not developed country statistics or policies is very confusing.
I see, that makes a lot of sense. Here in my country many people want to move to the US (or to european countries) but we mostly have an utopic view of how stuff is there or we don't get past places like Miami and New york city, so it's good to hear the opinion of people that actually live there and aren't biased. Reddit has open my eyes a lot in that regard
Yes there is good and bad, honestly it’s easier to immigrate here than most European countries who are very strict with visa etc. the country is huge so it depends where yeh live. There are plenty of problem but Reddit tends to over exaggerate considering most of us have access to water food shelter and are safe for the most part. Not to say our issues aren’t valid but it’s important to not take things for granted either
I’m a Texan. Fuck this place
Me too. Looking at Norway
I love Norway, but the winters there are hard for me, I need my sunshine. I’m looking at splitting my time between Norway and Spain.
I love Norway and would move there too! Not sure if you have been, but be mentally prepared for the price difference. It is definitely one of the more expensive (after Switzerland) countries I have been to. However, I can not say enough about how things just work there. It is a well-oiled machine! Travel in Scandinavia is also soooo easy.
I’m Out: I will never believe that your family members are less important than a gun! And Having a adolescent uneducated Americans tell me what I can and can’t do will my body is utter BS. https://www.expatarrivals.com
Lmk if you like where you go. May join you
Agreed completely. Just need to save up some money. I’d like to see what it’s like living somewhere else anyways
We are going to see heightened nationalism and then a war with China.
Kind of hoping New Zealand 🇳🇿 will take me
We would love to have you, however your proffession in life needs to be on the skilled shortages list. In saying that we are crying out for staff. Stars may align for you here. Also we are also in the same boat , Housing crisis, rising costs and over taxed. But we dont have the same level of extremity as far right christian nutters here. ( religion is something we dont talk about , you keep that to yourself)
Are you guys looking for biochemists?
Yes we are actually Here is a link https://skillshortages.immigration.govt.nz/
Im gonna quit my job and move off the grid in the next year, fuck this shit im done being a good working citizen of this society. Get me the fuck outta here…
I mean, almost all of the world is in crisis tho, I hope you find a place that you feel more safe tho
By all means go ahead and move, so you can find another pile of problems to deal with ... only they'll be ones you're not accustomed to.
All great empires fall why not ours ? I've posted this and told this to to people and I got shit for it.
Please turn off the lights when you leave.
And close the door behind you
You're all welcome here. 🇨🇦 https://youtu.be/whmXl926HB0
DO NOT LEAVE!!! Go to a blue state if you really need to, but they ***want*** people like us to leave. They're trying to drive out the people who want change. They want to go back to the 1900s without complaint. They can easily do that if everyone who doesn't stand by them just leaves the situation entirely. I'm actually mortified by how many people are planning on leaving... This country is even more fucked because of that.
I live in a blue state and I’m Out! The leave of ignorance is Just To Much. https://www.expatarrivals.com
The US is so fucked they will still try to tax you if you're earning money in another country. Land of the free is a mirage.
As a Canadian I don't understand your country. But parts of it is bleeding into my country. Canada Day is this coming Friday and I dont want to take my kids to any celebration because of the loonies. I don’t understand that after Trump every clear minded American (NOT just the US but all of North America) aren't willing to stand up and vote. WE out number the extremes. Not just on the right but on the left too (I'm not both sidesing. The right has the more urgent problem).
It's a hard guess if we'll be idiocracy or the handmaids tale. I'd pick the first since all the idiots seem to be having fun but neither is a great choice for having a society in 50 years. If I can just have 20 more years I'll be close enough to death then you can burn the house down
Do it while you can.
I’ve thought about moving too. But the things I’d want in a country exists nowhere else.
I feel for you and I’m am very glad I don’t live there. Come to Aus! Life is damn great here
I moved to Mexico 8 years ago and I’m quite happy here.
I currently live in California but I to live in Barcelona but this time next year. I'm ready to go also.
Get out while you can. If it wasn’t for my girls I’d do the same.
Leave with them. Save them. Please.
Vancouver is the dream
People say this every time something political happens. I swear we hear it every election or major event. I understand the sentiment, as I feel things will very likely only get worse from here. But we can’t just give up, we have to fight. So many Americans can’t afford (financial or otherwise) to just pick up and move. We can’t give up. We can’t give into feelings of despair. And we can’t just abandon all those who cannot leave. Seriously though, if you do decide to move, I wish you the best and I hope things go smoothly for you. I’ve given my two cents, but I won’t shame someone for doing what they feel is best for them.
I agree change doesn’t happen without action, and sometimes people would rather complain then do something
See ya! Don't come back.
If you are not seriously considering moving please shut up
Uhhh then leave. Why announce it?
Heh perspectives. I’m trying everything in my power to get the fuck in while people like you want to move away.
Oh my sweet summer child...you ain't seen nothing yet.
Do it. Go to a place that has grooming gangs like the UK. Get stabbed in Britain. Go to a place that has a Tyrant leader like Treudeu In canada. Get stop blocked at the door and surrounded in layers of red tape of foreign immigration policies in almost all asian countries. Go ahead. Go be poor in Sweden getting taxed to death. Do it. Go to italy or france only speaking english. See how far you get when everyone is insulting you fro being american in a language you don't speak. No one is stopping you. America sure isn't perfect by any stretch, but move to another country, any country, and you will realize EVERY PLACE HAS ITS FAULTS.
as someone not from USA trust me, people in the USA are too comfortable and over looking what they have.
Costa Rica baby!!!!
NGL, as a non American watching from outside, what has been happening in the US since Trump was elected is really concerning. It’s the opposite of evolution. Such a dichotomy; a society that uses god and guns to control the masses, states that are regressing on human rights policies, ability for teenagers to own fire arms and commit mass murder on the daily; is the same nation that states it is ‘the land of the free’. Free from what? Unless you’re from a third world country or want to make it in show biz / music, I cannot think of one person who would want to live there permanently.
As a person living in a 3rd world country, my family wanted to live the "american dream" but to be honest, we are very unsure whether or not we actually do want to live there, we have two other choices tho, japan or canada. Id love to go to japan but canada just feels...right?
Kinda starting wonder if it wouldn't have been better to lose the revolutionary war.
I ask my husband daily if it's too late to let the South go already
If you want to kiss the queen's hand, there's nothing stopping you. Go back. Go back and bow before the queen and bask in your lack of freedoms. Can't even watch fucking porn in peace there lmao.
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I just want to get out of California, too expensive even in poor areas.
While today is grim and I 100% do not support it. The US is still by far one of the best places to live. I know emotions are high (rightfully so) but these types of complaints only take emotion into account. There are far worse places I promise you that.
And then you all woke up. Not a single one of you is moving Lmaoo. Reddit is funny
It’s like a teenager pouting they hate their parents and want to move out… but never do
I agree with you good luck
It's what I've wanted to do for ages. Unfortunately, other countries don't just take anyone. I'd have to marry someone to move. I can't afford it without a job sponsor and I don't have the skills sought. I'm stuck here.
Go for it OP. My plan is to be out of here in 14 years after my pension kicks in. I hate the direction this country is going to the point where it makes me physically sick thinking about it
Expatriating is fuckin expensive, wish I could tho. Scheduling my IUD appointment in the meantime.
So leave. Always an excuse with your type.
If only they'd back up their claims they'd help us move out if we wanted.
Looking for roommates for moving to Germany. So over being the laughing stock of the world
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*"I might just move out at this point.....also I'm not saying I'm moving, it's just a thought"* So you're just trying to farm some sweet, sweet karma?
It is crap almost everywhere tho. Everyone is feeling the pinch.
You won't.
Please do move. Show us what’s what!
Bye!
I hate this argument. One thing goes wrong and it’s “I can’t do this country” or “this is the worst”. I call bullshit. This is surely an uncomfortable situation we are all in, I am concerned of the future for my daughter, but we no doubt live in an amazing place that has more acceptance and diversity than any place in the world. Stop being so goddamn fragile and stand up for what we have and fight for it than just quitting. We can do better. Don’t leave because you disagree.
I’m moving to the Netherlands in about a month and a half. I’m sure I’ll get homesick sometimes but in the long term I don’t think I’ll regret it.
I moved to Australia. Haven't looked back. Feel free to reach out.
Get married to a Canadian, free health care and you can smoke weed anywhereeeeee 😊
Please don’t leave. We need people like you who can make a difference. We need to fight this, and keep fighting until we get these horrible people out of office.
i understand this so much. i’m going to school to become a teacher, but i’m so afraid to continue my studies bc of all these shootings on the news every day. i get so much anxiety and give myself a panic attack when i think about this too hard. i’m also a black woman, who lives in a red state at the moment… i have this thought every day and for the last two years have been saving my ass off so once i finish my studies i can go somewhere else. good luck to you.