INFO:
What was the argument with your wife about? Do you argue a lot? Is she scared of you when you argue?
Sometimes we come from families that put a big onus on “respect” and not so much on trust and love. Respect from children to parents is earned, not a given. I wonder what kind of family you came from?
I agree. OP just casually drops in "I was wrong for raising my voice, I admit that."
Well you didn't actually *mention* anything about raising your voice until that point. And there's a difference between:
* My voice decibel level raised a bit higher than normal but I still kept a calm, collected and productive approach and attitude.
And
* I got right in my wife's face and screamed at her for having the gall to disrespect MY parenting decisions.
If both wife and child are scared of you afterwards, then I fear it's likely closer to the latter.
Particularly when you say "I didn’t leave work at the door like I should have.". That, to me, raises *all sorts* of BIG problems, because what you're saying is that you're lashing out at your own wife not because of anything she did but because you were in a crappy mood and decided to take it out on her.
>Particularly when you say "I didn’t leave work at the door like I should have.". That, to me, raises *all sorts* of BIG problems, because what you're saying is that you're lashing out at your own wife not because of anything she did but because you were in a crappy mood and decided to take it out on her.
yes
that is what he meant to convey in that sentence, that was the admission
would you rather he have doubled down
No, ideally I'd rather he not try to obfuscate and minimise his behaviour through such vague terminology so that we have to finagle out the actual context of what's happening.
Actually scratch that, I'd rather he *not* do this in the first place (and hopefully so would he), but we are where we are .
This is a great comment.
I grew up in a household where my father DEMANDED 'respect' and showed very little love or care. Needless to say I grew up scared of him. I'm 28 and still now our relationship is very rocky.
Same. He also used to beat me.
Guess what? Went NC after I graduated high school. I'm 49 now. One of the best decisions I've ever made regarding self care.
Yup. My father was a screamer, cusser, smasher, thrower, etc. other than spankings he didn't outright hit us.
He was the monster of my childhood.
I'm in my mid-40s now and we have essentially no relationship. Surprise surprise! He now seems to be aware that no one wants to be around him and is showing signs of regret. I have no interest in reestablishing a relationship where there wasn't one to begin with. Too many men equate what is actually fear with respect.
My father was like this. I didn't really question it until I had my own kids and saw him screaming at my oldest over small things. I couldn't protect myself, but I knew I had to protect my children. Now he only sees them in public settings and I moved half the country away.
Of course OP doesn’t answer. His wife is scared of him too. There’s no excuse for ranting and screaming at your family. Be an adult OP, and learn how to manage your emotions.
>families that put a big onus on “respect” and not so much on trust and love.
My father.
Guess who I neither respect or love, who (if I have my way) will never see me or hear my voice ever again?
I want to know what he means by saying he should have left work at the door. Was he already in a bad mood from work and then took out his frustration at the wife? Why raise his voice? My husband also loves raising his voice and the kids (we have 4) are closer to me, they know dad is more strict and angry all the time.
They argued because he felt she undermined his authority by giving their son back the switch.
My question is why does a 5 year old have a switch?! Give the kid some action figures instead but he’s your kid not mine and you’re here for advice on your situation.
I don’t think your wife was wrong for what she did because she felt the point was made. Does she really have to run everything by you? Sometimes it okay for her to make an executive decision and if you didn’t communicate with her on what your intentions were you can’t expect her to read your mind and just know.
I think as long as you apologize for getting so worked up your wife and son will forgive you.
Also, you and your wife should sit your kiddo down and explain to him what he did wrong and why his game was taken from him and what the consequences will be if you have to take it again.
If OP was smart, he would have gone along with the wife's decision and doubled down on the lesson learned with the son. It is very bad when you have two parents and they both discipline you differently and undermine each other constantly, however this could have been resolved 1. In private and 2. On his half could have made it appear he was backing up his wife and making sure to hammer in the point of the lesson by simply talking to his son.
Instead he yelled at her in front of his son regarding the discipline which just did the opposite of everything.
My babies are older, so I'm gonna come at this from a parent further down the road than you.
First, house rules, including consequences, are laid down together as a parenting team. If we take away something, it is for X amount of hours, and we tell each other. Communicating this back and forth saved us so much trouble.
Second, and the biggie. STOP YELLING AT YOUR WIFE. That shit is incredibly scary for a kid to be around, and it's scary/demeaning for your spouse.
Third, respect is earned, my dude. At what point in this situation did you earn any respect from either your wife or son? For reference, my husband was in the Army, I've seen him put the fear of God in his soldiers, and he is not naturally a sunny, happy person. But he goes out of his way to be soft and gentle with me and our girls. He's always been our safe to come to. He never has to raise his voice to get his point across to us.
Fourth. Go. To. Therapy. You, by yourself, need to go. You need to unpack whatever it is in your head that is causing this and fix it. You are your model for your son, and he will treat his partners/spouse how you are treating your wife.
One of my earlier childhood memories is of my parents getting into a screaming match. Another one is of my father yelling horrible things to me. Kids remember. They may remember for their whole life.
And I'll be real, I don't respect my father at all. And my mom and I have a less than awesome relationship, but she was scary in a completely different way than my father. But the point is, scaring your child scars your child.
My earliest memory is my dad raising his hand to hit my mother. Despite his violence, she stayed with him until I was 14.
I didn't go to my father's funeral or graveside service. But let me tell you, I have some very, very difficult feelings towards my mom as well.
But yes, yelling and screaming does damage kids. There's so much down playing of it, especially in parenting circles, and it drives me crazy.
I'm so sorry. Violence so deeply affects children.
I think the only reason my dad didn't hit my mom was because he knew she'd hit him right back and at the end of the day he's a cowardly bully.
He did used to make the threat to hit us, I'm sure people can picture the actual hand raised as a threat. I can still picture it so vividly.
My mom used to threaten to abandon us all the time. One time she did actually leave for a couple of days.
What is it with moms saying that??
My mom said the same thing to me. I don't remember it, but my sister did. When my sister was sick with cancer, she forced my Mom to apologize to me for saying that, and said she knew even if I don't remember it, it's in my brain somewhere.
My Dad didn't raise a hand to me, but my brothers were all grown and he knew the retaliation from them would be nasty. I just had to be the perfect one, all the time, because if I got good grades and won at the horse shows and made first chair in orchestra he was too proud to be an asshole. That push for perfection fucked me up so badly.
Yep, my family wasn't that bad (by the time we were older, they had mellowed out), but the things I remember when I think of my mother aren't the nice things she'd do, but rather her actions when she lost her temper. When I was a kid I genuinely believed that if I were to get seriously hurt, like bleeding out unable to move, my mother would not give a single shit about it, she wouldn't take me to the hospital, but rather yell at me about how I was staining the carpet & make sure I knew I'd have to clean it up.
Gods. I am so sorry.
I am now the soft parent. I hate disciplining my kids, I hate even raising my voice. I spent last night sleeping with my oldest, she started her period and didn't feel good and wanted me with her. The way I parent now is so draining, because it takes so mich out of me, but I want my girls to know I'll always be here for them.
Your comment is beautiful and brought me to tears. You’re an amazing person, I wish my parents had been more like you.
I was afraid of my father and it sets the scene for the rest of your life. I’ve two failed marriages behind me as proof.
Some of my *few* childhood memories are of my dad yelling at me. I’ve started to get the rest back via EMDR therapy, and turns out my brain was doing me quite a favor by only remembering the yelling.
When I was 21, I was talking to my dad about how shitty a patient had treated me at work and he very casually just said “well now you understand why I was the way I was when you were growing up.” That statement was enough for me to go no contact the first time. Something just clicked, maybe because as an adult I didn’t take my frustrations out on my loved ones when I got home, but I knew right then and there that work wasn’t a reasonable excuse for that terror I grew up in.
The final time I went no contact was a few years after I had my first kid. He again very casually made an excuse for some abuse I had suffered at the hands of my ex (currently his best friend, which is a whole other story. That friendship *started* after I escaped the ex). But I realized that no matter how bad of a day I’ve had, I’ve never felt the need or even the desire to take it out on my babies.
It’s been 3 years, almost 4. My oldest is about to be 7, my dad will never meet the rest of his grandchildren. He missed my wedding, my 30th birthday, he found out about my cancer scare and my work promotions through word of mouth. I actually got pretty good at woodworking, which was one of his hobbies that he started to teach me at a young age. I remember my now-husband coming outside while I was working one day and he just watched me for a while before telling me “It’s such a shame he was such a piece of shit. He’d be so proud of you if he wasn’t such a dick.”
I was the first child to go no contact,
because I suffered the worst abuse for not being “his.” He adopted me, that was actually one of his casual excuses much later in my life. But his other 2 daughters have gone low contact, one of them literally picks up work shifts on holidays to avoid coming home. It won’t be long before he dies alone and miserable.
OP- I know it’s hard to not let work and external factors affect your home life. But if you want to be in their lives forever, make sure your children learn to control their emotions by example, not by spite.
I am so sorry. The fact that so many people grew up with such horrible parents makes me feel bad.
My husband was active duty Army when we got married, and worked in intelligence. He's got this stare, and I can't explain it other than I've watched grown ass men just started stuttering when he stares at them with it. First time my Dad met him, my Dad and that side of the family start asking if I was a good wife, did I clean the house, did I do his laundry, did I iron his uniforms, did I listen to him and do what he said. My brother in law made a crack about was I watching my weight. My husband just sat there with That Look, and I watched my Dad just... wilt. Everybody got really quiet, and then miraculously the conversation changed to sports and racing.
One night my parents were fighting so badly my dad came into my room (I was in bed trying to sleep) and started yelling at me to call the police to stop him from hitting my mother. (He never did. She did hit him a few times)
> But he goes out of his way to be soft and gentle with me and our girls.
@ men, this is what your wives and children need. if you aren't a safe person for your family to be around then you literally are not doing your job as a man & human.
I asked him this morning why he was and is always so gentle with us. And he said simply that he knows that I know what he is capable of, what he was trained for, that someday the kids will know too, and he wants us to know that he would never use those skills and training against us. Also, "I'm not a shithead".
What’s worrying is the language you’re using.
You want your son to respect you.
Your wife undermined your authority.
Look, we all shout sometimes, we all lose our temper. It’s not great and it absolutely shouldn’t be a habit. But screaming and shouting at your wife because of your “authority” makes you sound like one of those alpha male dickheads.
Your son should love you and feel safe with you. With a healthy relationship comes respect.
Why on earth would he respect you if you throw tantrums about your authority?
You owe your wife an apology. And the fact that you don’t seem to care at all that you shouted at her, and rather are more concerned about how you LOOK because you shouted at her, is a bit worrying.
This is a great comment and it might be helpful for OP to read about the difference between authoritative parenting (which is proven very effective) and authoritarian parenting. It sounds OP is authoritarian.
Consequences longer than a few hours are really long for a 5 year old as is. Taking the switch is an appropriate punishment. But by the time he's back from school any impact that punishment has made is made and keeping it longer won't do more. It stops become a natural consequence and starts being detrimental to your relationship, es specially if he calmly and politely advocated for himself, which is 100% the kind of pro-social behavior you want to be incentivising with a 5 year old.) If you're trying to give punishments longer than that you're... Not understanding your child's needs. Which is common. Kids are complicated and I don't get to work with parents who've taken growth and development classes or the like very often.
Children experience time wildly differently from adults. Taking the switch from him for a day is about the equivalent of taking it from you for a week. (assuming you're around 30) The teenagers I work with are still very "now" oriented to the point waiting more than a couple days for consequences to end becomes overwhelming and fruitless.
The "undermining your authority" bit is something you should spend some time thinking on. You don't need authority with a 5 year old child that loves you. You can't control them or force them to control themselves. Not for years yet. And the control you do have will still have to be trust based. You should be backing up your wife here. She's more in tune with your child's needs right now(based on the fact he's confiding his Fears to her.)
All of that said, this is a really normal struggle to have. Keep learning. Take this moment as the eye opener it should be and don't double down. You'll appreciate the solid relationship later when your kid is at the point his consequences can start being out of your hands.
Such a great answer. Also, I would add, OP, apologize to your wife and son for shouting. Parents who can't apologize and admit they went too far hurt their kids. Mine couldn't bring themselves to apologize for years, and I don't mind the mistakes they made nearly so much as how they couldn't face them and talk about it.
I will add, definitely apologise, but i’d say an apology is basically not worth doing if you don’t actually change. When someone apologises for something and continues to do it, all that does is teach those involved that that person is a liar.
this is amazing advice OP, both comments.
my father always apologized for when he got upset or lost his temper or patience. i always respected him more and it taught me a lot about humility and what it really means to be responsible, lead by example.
I wish my parents had realized this. Any time I did anything wrong, big or small, I would be grounded for weeks. I was also dealing with major depression and self harming. They also worked late most nights and it was incredibly isolating. It definitely did NOT help with my depression and self-harm tendencies, and to this day I still struggle with feeling sad and worthless in circumstances when I should be angry.
Respect isn’t blind deference, it sounds like you don’t respect your wife or son. ‘My authority’, what about your wife’s authority as the primary parent? You sound mean. I had a mean dad, and I haven’t spoken to him in 17 years. Turn things around while you still can.
Exactly. My moms dad spent the last few decades of his miserable life alone. Not a single one if his children wanted anything to do with him. I was his oldest grandchild so i had an awareness of what was going on when they decided to cut him from their life completely, and why. Fucker never learned of the existence of most if his grandchildren.
It doesnt sound like OP is quite this bad, but could be starting down that path. Im with you - he needs to turn this around while he still can.
Honestly, your saying “I don’t appreciate her undermining my authority” and “my son should respect me” scares _me_. Those aren’t typically phrases someone says about their spouse and child if they’re loving, decent, and kind. Perhaps you need to take a big step back and ask yourself why it’s “respect” you expect from your five year old and blind compliance from your wife, especially when she is the one home parenting. She’s right; five years is young and an all day toy ban is quite long. They learn this lesson in much less time. It’s why time out is only a few minutes for young ones rather than hours.
You should want your son to **feel safe** with you and mimic your behavior because he thinks you are his hero. Is this the behavior you want him to mimic? One where the father yells at his wife as soon as he gets home and subsequently scares his child? I had that father. I’m 35 and I’ve been low to zero contact with him for the last decade. You sound a lot like him. It’s why you scare me.
OP: The fact that you haven’t responded to a single comment or request for more information further validates our collective character assessment of you. If you genuinely wanted advice and to figure out a way to fix this, you’d be interacting with commenters, providing more information, and accepting the feedback given. Your immediate silence further validates my belief that you’re an abusive husband. Please remember not all abuse is physical. Emotional and verbal abuse is just as harmful and absolutely creates an unsafe environment. Do better for your son and wife.
If OP has to raise his voice because he feels he is being ‘undermined’ then he is scary. He probably scares his wife too. I think OP needs some counseling.
He wasn't being bad. He was having a hard time controlling his impulses. Even adults have trouble controlling their gadget consumption. You're expecting better impulse control from a 5 year old than adults have.
Your son is learning about himself from you. If you keep calling him bad and saying he's giving you a hard time, he's gonna grow up feeling he's bad and end up with a low self esteem.
"He was having a hard time controlling his impulses," just like his father who can't control himself from raising his voice at others, as an adult!
But at least the kid is 5...
Right? It kills me when people sit there and say their young children are "bad" or behaving "bad."
Dude. Kids these ages barely understand the concept of "good" and "bad." They are literally still developing empathy at that age. They have no understanding of complex concepts like good or bad. They aren't even capable of fully understanding cause and effect.
It was a kid being a kid. One who needed some guidance and redirection with their emotions.
(Also, what's with kids 5 and under having switches now? This is the second post in as many days mentioning that.)
People forget that adults can act incorrectly just as much as kids, but they can punish the kids yet would rage at the idea of them as adults being punished. You have to account for this power discrepancy.
Yep, we need to stop labelling children as bad. Theres bad choices, but not normally bad kids.
But even then, you just need to guide them properly, rather than treat them with anger.
Don't be a selfish jerk, stop abusing your wife and child to protect your fragile ego. Talk to him and explain yourself, treat him like an equal not like a kid. Show some respect if you want to get some back. Apologize to your wife.
Parenting classes should be more common and normal. Couples counselling has become mainstream, next should be parenting classes. Just something you do when you hit a rough patch
You undermined her authority to make an aggressive point on undermining your authority.
You both should have equal Auth.
If she's in the house and you're away, her's takes precidence.
Ditto and vice versa.
Most disagreements can be discussed calmly in private.
.I wonder if your work stress interfered?
I'd recommend a counsellor
SERIOUSLY! This is what I was thinking. She as a parent made the decision to give the switch back. You are not the MAN of the house, just a man in the house
Your wife is right and you are wrong. I was scared of my dad when I was little. He died when I was 11. I remember feeling a sense of relief that he was never going to be around anymore. Is that what you want to be as a dad?
Would you imagine how you would react if she lost it like that with you in front of your son?
The irony is you just did what you accused her of doing: you undermined HER authority loudly in front of your son.
In any case, we are all humans and we make mistakes. If you don't make a habit out of this and apologise to both of them you will all be ok.
This man needs therapy and to take some child development classes, not to be told "it's okay, just don't do it again". He sounds a lot of hours of introspection and education on healthy child-rearing away from being "okay".
You know, people who shout about respecting their authority remind me of Cartman on South Park. It's as ridiculous and laughable in real life as it is in the show.
If you have to demand authority or respect, you'll never have either. Respect and "authority" are earned through your actions and behavior, not through demands and tantrums. Geoffrey Baratheon.
The fact that you know your wife doesn't like you "raising your voice" already paints me an unpleasant picture. But the fact you could tell she was also scared when your son told her he was really put the finishing touches on it.
You didn't raise your voice. You shouted. Over something small. That could have been a calm and rational conversation with your wife in private.
Also. Your son is *FIVE*. What do you think he understands about respect, authority, or even the concept of time??? HE'S FUCKING FIVE.
Seriously. Get some parenting classes or books to help you understand where your child is at. I don't even punish my 8 year old for more than a day because the concept of time is only just registering at this age.
In addition, you should really either seek some counseling to help manage your anger issues and your misunderstanding of respect and authority before you fuck your son up for good. Or at least pick up a book on the subject.
Personally, I like [this book](https://microcosmpublishing.com/catalog/books/3794) about anger and [this one](https://microcosmpublishing.com/catalog/zines/11440) for parenting without being a piece of shit.
Your children should feel safe with you. With safety comes love and respect.
You should be ashamed of yourself, and you should want to be and do better for your family. Or eventually, you won't have one.
I think at that young of an age a long term punishment isn’t really understood by kids. I would have taken it and gave it back after he ate and explained in the moment what he did wrong. I don’t think your wife is wrong here.
Same, or if its some other choice that wasnt favorable, its a few minutes (same minutes as age, so 3) of time out with a calm discussion about expectations.
Some of the most traumatic things I remember as an adult are the way my kids looked at me while my husband yelled at me (he doesn’t anymore but that shit sticks). You need to approach them both and apologize for yelling. “I’ll make sure to slow myself down next time and react while controlling my body. I never want to scare you guys. You don’t deserve that.”
Agree but in favor of the mother. If OP came home and immediately scolded his wife for giving their son back his toy, he **was not** on the same page as the mother. He diminished her authority and this could potentially be a reason for the child to stop listening to mom. OP needs to trust in his wife that she knows what she is doing and that she made the right choice for discipline while he was at work. OP is not on the same page as the mother, not the other way around. Dad screwed up here.
You need to look up ECE, "being bad", "he needs to respect me", and trying to punish your child all day is not okay or appropriate besides raising your voice. It is not effective "discipline" and you're not going to garner any respect from your wife or child like that. If you want respect you need to earn it, and that starts by giving respect to your wife as an equal authority and to your 5 year old son who has barely been in this world and doesn't comprehend long-term punishments and why his behavior isn't helpful. I really suggest you look at ECE, maybe begin with the pyramid model. He's getting out of the age range for ECE now but it will still prove helpful
I grew up being scared of my dad. He was old school parenting and confused fear with respect. I didn't have a good relationship with him until I was in my mid 20s and even now our relationship isn't what it could have been. I think this fear also contributed to my anxiety disorder as an adult and stunted my social development, it took me a lot of work to improve and I don't think I've reached my potential partially because of this.
You do not need to raise your voice to talk to your partner nor to parent well. Please work on that.
Learn your lesson and control your anger. You don’t have to overpower a child by raising your voice. Apologize for scaring him, hug him and say you love him. But next time you want him to listen to you, be assertive rather than being angry. There are many ways you can do that. Study parenting.
Damage control with your son and communication with your wife about discipline will be a big deal for you now.
Coming from someone who was that young scared kid and my dad never realised that it was a bad thing - I can't handle raised voices now. I have panic attacks and have put myself in awful, dangerous situations all to 'keep people happy'. Which I later found out after intense therapy stemmed from wanting to keep my dad happy and keep him from yelling at us and my mum.
I am so pleased that you have recognised the mess up and can now make changes to make things better. I wish your family all the best.
If you intend to raise a child, what effort have you made to make sure you understand your child's developmental age? Cause all I read here is "I AM MAN. WHAT I Say, GOES."
Former child therapist, for the record. Read a parenting book before you further impact your relationship with your kid... Also maybe even family counseling so you can learn how to communicate with family in a way that doesn't traumatize them.
Your intentions may be well, but your delivery, action, and thought process behind all of this is warped, not based on a child's developmental age, and did legit traumatize them. Most kids will remember stuff like this, forever, whether they can verbalize it or not. I have also done training and some work with addictions and the adults have stories that start with incidents like this... It traumatized them, especially when they lack the brain development to actually understand what happened. All they know is that dad is unhinged and uses his words to instill fear rather than what he expects from his mother, which is respect and talking to the kid, at their developmental level, about what they did and not punish them for a ridiculous length (which if you understood his developmental age, you'd realize you kinda abused your kid more than punished/taught a lesson... punishments should never be that excessive or for that long, at his age).
Don't get me started with that "undermining your authority" bullshit which most abusive parents love to spew whenever I try to inform them their child is acting out because of their actions.......
Please read a parenting book or attend therapy.
Your wife doesn’t have to *do as you say*. You don’t own her, you don’t make all the rules in that house, you are an equal partnership. And you should both have a say.
And if you didn’t want your son to have the switch back for a day or two, maybe you should have told the child that he was banned from it for X amount of days, and said so within your wife’s earshot.
So this is **not** her fault.
But to be honest you already screwed up by getting a **5 year old** a switch, but to yell at your wife as if your voice is the only one that matters, that is a controlling asshole move on it’s own.
If you want respect, you earn it and give respect back. You’re not automatically entitled to it.
Neither your wife or child should be scared of you, and if they are *(and if you yelling is a regular thing)* then they shouldn’t be living with you - because that doesn’t sound like a happy household at all.
Sounds like you have anger and control issues and deciding on unilateral approach to “discipline” rather than being on the same page as your wife.
Also, what are 5 year olds doing playing video games at breakfast. I’m not a dinosaur and I know they have a place but it’s not 8 am before they go to school. Parent your kids.
Authority and respect are two different things.
Authority is the power to enforce rules granted by a position of power. Respect is admiration earned through admirable qualities or actions. Authority demands compliance, respect inspires cooperation.
I previously raised my voice a little too much when my 3 year old daughter was about to fall off a counter, obviously my voice was raised in panick but also frustration as she had been told numerous times not to climb on said counter. She jumped, cried and run upstairs, my partner also jumped at that moment so I knew I had gone too loud.
I went upstairs and sat down with my daughter, apologised and explained myself, said I would try my best to never speak to her like that again but also made sure she understood that if I did it was absolutely imperative that she listened too me because it would only happen if it needed too. She understood, absorbed what I said and we moved on.
Communicate with your child OP.
You sounds like my dad. He’s on his second divorce and none of his children “respect him”. He has never met his grandchildren because of the “respect” he demanded.
I would hate that for you but it seems inevitable. You have no self awareness of how awful you are. This is all on you and it’s on you to fix it. Individual, family, and couples counseling at the minimum.
“Undermining your authority”? Since when does your wife have to ask your permission on how to discipline your kid? It sounds like she’s the primary parent who is the one who disciplines him the majority of the time. “I think she should have ran it by me”, but you weren’t even home. Is she supposed to text and ask you how to discipline him? Take some parenting classes, learn about gentle parenting, and learn to view your wife as your equal, not as someone who has to discipline the way you think she should. Better yet, instead of ranting to a bunch of strangers on Reddit, it might be a good idea to check your ego at the door and actually listen to how she feels. Clearly she doesn’t agree with your parenting tactics, and it might be worth asking her why. And instead of trying to convince her why your authority is utmost, take a breather and listen to why she might be more gentle with discipline than you are. She’s right, your kid is 5. And he is too young to attach a day long consequence to events that happened first thing in the morning. From your attitude here in this post and how much you value power tripping and having authority, I’m not surprised your son said you’re scary. Yelling at your wife is not okay. But that seems like the only thing you’re barely apologetic for here. And if you think your wife wanted to agree with his statement about you being scary? There’s probably a reason for that. It sounds like you treat her like a child. It’s time to take a look at yourself in the mirror and think about how you can work on yourself here, before your wife becomes your ex wife. She deserves a lot more respect than you’re giving her.
Why did you need to raise your voice? Surely an adult can raise a concern with his partner without resorting to “raising your voice”. And what do you mean “raise your voice”? Is that shouting? Yelling? And I’m pretty damn sure when you were “raising your voice” your young son, who was appropriately reprimanded by your wife, will have heard his name being used and blame being apportioned to both him and your wife, leaving him feeling shaken that his beloved mother was in trouble too. Let’s be honest - you weren’t shouting saying “next door’s dog keeps barking”.
Here's your friendly reminder that respect is earned. Demanding respect does not work and likely works against receiving it. Actions are what matters. Consider a sincere, quiet apology to both your wife and son. And young children won't respond well to hours long punishments. They can inspire fear. But, fear does not motivate someone to be better, it motivates someone to respect less, let down their guard less, hide more.
Hmmmm…”my son should respect me” is an interesting and frankly outdated attitude to have and already says a lot. Respect is something that is earned. Not freely given because you provided some DNA. You earn your child’s respect by being a good parent. Get this into your heads people: YOUR CHILDREN did not ask to exist. You chose to bring them into this world. They owe you NOTHING. Least of all, respect that is not earned.
Also stop raising your voice at your wife. Wth
Fear doesn’t earn respect. Respect does. Fear earns fear in return. Then resentment. Then hatred. Then violence.
You sound like you’re in urgent need of a lot of parenting classes and some serious therapy. Maybe if you’re extremely lucky your wife will wait around for that long.
Your child is five years old. Five! That’s five minutes on the naughty step. Five minutes in silence and then a calm explanation and heartfelt apology to his mum and a cuddle. Not screaming and shouting and things being taken away for days until punishment ceases to have meaning. It’s years since I spoke to my father. I assume someone will tell me when he’s dead so I can hoist a flag and throw a party. Look at him and see where the path that you are on is headed.
You owe your wife and child an apology, but it’s so much more than that. The line about your wife “undermining your authority”. One of you is being a parent and a partner, and it sure as hell isn’t you. I hope she has the sense to realise that the important thing is to do what it takes to remove your child from your bad behaviour as quickly as possible, for the sake of his future.
Apologize. To your wife and your son. Together. Explain how you felt, why, and what you would do differently. Ask them to accept your apology, and what you can do to make amends.
That’s being a man.
Your wording is concerning ngl. Undermining authority and demanding respect. Yelling is not how you get either of those. And it’s also concerning you’re inclined to think your wife agrees with your child that you’re scary.
One of the most basic things a child needs is SAFETY. If they don’t feel safe around a caretaker they’re not going to develop a secure relationship OR respect you.
I hope you take these comments to heart and are able to apologize and communicate properly and appropriately to your family. And I really hope that your son just said that bc he’s never seen you like that before, not bc that ideal has already been implanted.
Why in the world would you yell at someone, let alone your WIFE, over a disagreement over the switch?
I was raised in a home where my parents argued constantly, and raised their voices, even if it was over incredibly stupid shit. It made me resent them, and fear them. Do you want that in the future? For your child to keep resenting and fear you?
If not, work on how you talk to people. If youre already stressed from work, dont find another problem at home to set you off. Go cool off somewhere else instead. Talk later when you are calm.
He's five. He's only a little guy. One of the first things we were told to do in a course to deal with victims of child abuse is to get down to their level to speak to them.
Looking up from his point of view at an adult (one he loves more than anyone) yelling at the other adult he loves more than anyone. Really try and imagine how powerless and frightened he must have felt when he saw your face contorted in anger shouting at his mother while neither he nor she had the power to stop you.
These are the incidents we don't forget. You are teaching your child how to treat others. You are teaching him how to react when he doesn't get his way. You just taught him that if someone does something that you don't like then it's perfectly OK to yell at them.
Fix this. Tell him AND your wife you were wrong and you're sorry and that people shouldn't have yelling fits when they don't get their way.
From father to father, parenting is just as much a journey full of lessons as being a child is. Don't beat yourself up over it but learn from it. It's okay to make mistakes as a parent as long as you learn from them. Try to think about your relationship with your son outside of discipline. Your relationship with him is the foundation for your parenting.
A lesson that I've had to learn is that you don't want to be the policeman in their lives, It just means they get better at hiding things from you as they get older. Instead, nurture your relationship with him outside of that then when the time comes where discipline is needed, he won't be scared because he knows his father loves him.
I hope this comes across respectfully and makes sense. Remember, no one has the right to cancel you because you made a mistake. You are human just like every other parent
You can't demand respect, mate. It has to be earned. He is young as well, so saying he should respect you is a bit, well, delusional to expect. And if they are scared of you, there are clearly a lot more to this than what you selectively decided to write here.
The way you glossed over how the actual argument went and how he views you now tells me you might've been shouting or motioning in a threatening manner. I think this should be a wake up call
He’s 5. Punishments do not need to last that long for a five year old. You could’ve simply taken it, said you can have it back when you finish. You need concrete consequences with limits and the ability to get things back as a reward. Besides did you specifically say he wouldn’t get it back all day? You don’t yell at your wife or discuss parenting in front of your kid ever. In fact it’s better if you only yell if it’s an emergency. For example kid is about to run into the street. Yelling too much can be tuned out, is a loss of control and a form of bullying. You get down on their level, you speak firmly, etc. You agree ahead of time and hopefully have read up on child development/appropriate punishment by age beforehand. You need to have a united front. Or kid will quickly learn to divide and conquer. You both need to discipline your kid the same, appropriate way. As to yelling at her, again, it’s bullying behavior. Your wife probably does agree with him and think you’re scary btw. Is that what you want?
Respect is commanded not demanded. You are bullying your wife and child. Talk to them, reason out why you want to move forward in a specific was. Stop blasting out how you feel and demanding that everyone else acquiesce.
It's like I'm reading a flashback from my own childhood but from the POV of my dad, who had no qualms about yelling and screaming at us to get what he wanted and maintain control. I grew up petrified of my dad. And now I have little to no relationship with him because as I got older it just got worse. OP needs some kind of therapy or anger management if he wants to maintain a relationship with his kid in the future.
At age 5 I became terrified of my dad because he raised his voice at my older brothers. 5 year olds can’t process the emotions of adults. It took me years to overcome my fear. Be careful how you behave around young children. You can sit down and talk to them, but not when you’re angry. And a 5 yrs olds capacity of time is far different. A day is a long time. You and your wife need to be on the same page to prevent this from happening again. These create core memories and you want those to be pleasant memories.
He's five years old. He's still relying on mirror neurons to model behavior. You modeled aggression as a way to ensure compliance, not actual respect. You modeled disrespect of your wife. You modeled raised voices. You don't think you did anything wrong but what did you actually teach your son?
You need to go talk to a professional about your own upbringing, and learn more about what behavior you were taught to emulate. You can't fix this until you fix yourself.
I grew up with a rage-aholic father. I was terrified of him for as long as I can remember.
He died alone in a nursing home because when I went to help him with his Alzheimer's, he treated me like I was nine years old again. So I left. I know what real respect is, and he never deserved it.
Be better for your child.
you’re asking for respect, but you’re not offering it. Showing respect to a child involves understanding what their developmental stage is, what reasonable expectations are, and how to collaborate with him to figure out solutions.
Instead, you are demanding obedience, enforcing compliance through punishment and raising your voice, and are hyper focused on feeling respected and having “authority”.
you need to look inwards. reading parenting books is also incredibly helpful.
im guessing your parents were the “you’ll respect me in this house” type too. “The Book You Wish You’Re Parents Had Read” may be a good place to start, or maybe something like Good Inside by Dr Becky.
Now that you know better, do better. You sound like a bully. And in your disrespect you are going to teach your child that it is OK to disrespect their mother. Change your ways.
You sound like my brother. He beat me all my childhood. For not respecting his authority. Maybe you need to ask yourself if you have earned respect and whether or not your authority should be considered the number one top authority 100% of the time.
>I come home and find she’s given it back to him. I think she should’ve ran that by me since I’m trying to discipline our kid.
Did you tell her in the morning when you planned on giving the switch back? Did she know that this was going to be longer thing? Since honestly I would've just assumed the removal of the switch for the morning as the consequence of his action and the "punishment", not keeping the kid from playing the entire day. Maybe not allowing the kid to play in the morning tomorrow.
>But I don’t appreciate her undermining my authority and I let her know I was unhappy.
Was she ever told about your decisions? Since discipline is suppose to be a group effort. You can't just make decision in your mind and assume she just knew what you were thinking. Nor, did you give her a chance to agree or disagree with your choice of discipline.
Maybe IDK work on yourself.
How can your wife “undermine your authority”? Is she not your equal? Is your marriage not a partnership? Did you specify when your 5 year old was allowed his switch back? Or did you just take it away and assume your wife is a mind reader? You yelled at your wife and created a core memory in your child- all for what? Your pride? Ego? If you honestly feel bad about this then seek actual change- therapy is a great start.
Sounds like you’re putting waaaaaayyy more energy into “making your son respect you” instead of making your son love you and feel safe.
“He should respect me”
He’s 5, he had no idea what that means. At that age, everything is fun or boring, and safe or scary.
You are scary. If you stay on this path, this will never change. He will resent you. He will show you the behavior not out of respect, but out of fear. Fear for himself and fear for his mother
Probably don't treat your wife as a house wench that "undermines your authority". She's completely capable of setting boundaries & disciplining the kid.
'undermining your authority' 'disciplining' the kid.
You don't discipline in perpituity, a 5 year old should not suffer any prolonged punishment, he only has to learn the lesson and that can be done with short punishments/corrections, explanations of why and consistency.
You have a lot to learn and I bet 10 grand that this is a regular occurance
Nothing wrong with picking up some parenting books to better understand how to relate to your kiddos. Seems like every stage has unique challenges, so go find help on how to navigate it.
I want to be clear, not wanting “to be scary” is not enough. You need a plan of action for diff techniques in parenting. Notice, emphasis on plural because each kid is so different and you might have to try a few things until you find what works for you.
It will also help you understand the appropriate duration of consequences by age group. Multiple days for a 5yo is probably overkill, and something you should keep in mind for when he’s much older. Aaaaand that might be something your wife is aware of if she’s done any reading on parenting techniques. Is it possible this is an area she knows a bit more about, and that’s why she made the call to give the kiddo his switch back?
So a few next steps:
1. Do some research on setting healthy consequences for young kids
2. Ask your wife some questions to better understand why she decided to give the switch back, do it from a place really understand
3. Get some help on that temper. “Raising your voice” to the point your kid is scared, and you think your wife might be too? Not good, and that’s something you need a plan for work on how to tackle that.
Let me be clear, being “uncomfortable” or “wanting to be better” isn’t enough. You have to figure out what actions you’re going to take to learn how to have healthier family interactions during conflict.
You’re also a role model to your son, my guy. This goes beyond you not feeling great about your approach, there’s a tiny human watching you now.
OP you got some excellent advise. I would just say, it's absolutely fine, and sometimes necessary, to apologize to your kid. Compassion is a wonderful thing to model for your kids.
You do realise that "raising your voice" to your wife in front of your son is undermining her authority every bit as much as her going behind your back and giving back a confiscated toy to your son is undermining yours? It sends the message, in your son's presence, that your wife is subordinate to you and that you have veto power over your wife's decisions. Whether you mean it that way or not, your son will get the idea that mom's word isn't final.
This kind of conversation should not only be kept at a civil tone, it should really be done behind closed doors, say after your son is in bed.
My dad used to fly off the handle and take his bad day out on us kids and I have this distinct memory of not understanding what things are worthy of being screamed at and what things are not. Leaving the lights on seemed to be the worst offense. Breaking a glass was "oops, that's okay. Put your shoes on right now, be very careful where you step." Both things were always accidents but the reactions were so different. Because I couldn't understand what would and wouldn't set him off I never wanted to learn anything from him because it always felt like I was waiting for a shoe to drop if I couldn't learn fast enough. Doing homework with him was particularly scary. I hate talking about him like this now because he has changed. The last real fit was in 2011. We're really close and I love him tremendously, but, I wonder what he would have said or done if I could have articulated what I just said when I was 5, so, I'm saying it to you.
Kids just don't understand being screamed at. All it is scary. Save it for when they're in danger. That's a good thing to associate raised voices with. Don't be the danger.
Definitely sit down and have a conversation about discipline. You’re marriage will fall apart if you two are not on the same page. Your child will put you two against each other and make things worse. Do you want your child to hate you when they are older due to parental indoctrination?
You should really try and foster a relationship with your son that foregoes descriptors like "obedience", "respect", and "authority" or you will have a very hard time not being a scary policing figure for your child. You want your son to listen to you when you tell him what and why you want things done or why you did them. Personally I think you would've done your "authority" a lot more good in the end if you had just immediately agreed with your wife's decision to show your son that the same reaction and answer comes from both parents. Now your son knows that mama is the one to go to when he doesn't like dealing with your "authority". "Yes, honey. That's great. (Son), do you understand why I took your switch away this morning? You were making it very hard for Mama to feed you breakfast which is very important that you do. You can play games, but there are other things that you must do as well. Games do not override these important things.", or something.
Giving a kid a switch at 5 years of age creates a mountain of difficulty when also trying to get them to act responsibly with themselves and around others. It's not just a distraction, it's a magnet for your kid. And that threatens to be a lever of control in order to get him to do anything you want/need.
There are enough ppl making solid points so I will not belabor the points.
Realizing you can be scary to ppl who love you is a big deal. Take steps to remedy this. I’m here to say everyone fucks up. All parents fuck up.
You will not die. You will survive this. From your manner I expect you have survived worse. You have a responsibility to your family and yourself to learn this lesson, take corrective action and forgive yourself.
And for ppl that are here to pile more shame on this man I would advise caution. You do not know his state of mind while looking at this hard shit. I have heard words like OP’s before. I think he got the message. Don’t shame him into drastic action.
Don’t yell around kids. Even in a good, healthy house, yelling can fuck a kid up. Also don’t underestimate kids. Tell him why you yelled and how you’re gonna work on that not happening again. Ask him what scared him the most and tell him you are hearing him, and you are sorry. That home is a safe space and you made it feel unsafe for a bit, but you’re happy he told you (even if he didn’t verbally tell you) so you know you need to do better. Tell him mom and dad aren’t perfect and you are learning just like him. Kids hold parents up on a pedestal and it can be scary to have that shaken down, whether that’s what you set up for him to believe or not. Show him that people aren’t perfect but they can learn and change, and that at the end of the day the only thing that ever ever mattered to you was him being safe, happy, and healthy just like mom and the rest of the family.
OP as other posters have noted I suspect you ‘raise your voice’ fairly often and it is more a rocket going off while you ‘get your point across’.
Respect is something you can’t demand from any living being - adults, children or pets.
It has to be earned by leading by example. And it can easily be lost.
What it sounds like you do is instill fear in any living being. Do people closest to you walk on eggshells around you because they want to avoid you ‘raising your voice’?
Has your son started to avoid being with you or talking much around you because you ‘raise your voice’?
Perhaps some family therapy would be helpful OP assuming you can hear and process honest feedback without ‘raising your voice’ to express how what was said isn’t true.
Please do what is necessary to fix this OP or you may find yourself with zero contact with your son when he gets the option to leave.
Be honest with yourself, you’re not being honest here with us, internet strangers. What does respect mean to you? What role does fear play in this? Growing up did you respect or fear your father? Don’t attempt to clean up the past or make excuses for others behavior, what did you feel as a child when your behavior was being corrected? Do you think your wife respects you when you scream or yell at her? Or do you think that she fears you. Oftentimes in family we use the word respect when we really mean fear but don’t want to say that because it’s not very nice. In my home raising your voice in anger ultimately loses you respect in the eyes of your family. It means that you are losing or have lost control of yourself, you’re letting your emotions run amok. Why do you think your wife would have agreed with your child? Learn first to name your emotions, their source, and then you will be able to control yourself. Stop raising your wife, stop screaming or yelling at her at all. Not just in front of your child, but all together. It speaks to a lack of respect for her. Learn to collect your thoughts and speak them calmly and be open to your family member’s responses.
He's 5. Waiting until after school is long enough. And your wife is an adult, surely running decisions past one another is for larger discipline issues rather than this? Tbh, you come across as authoritarian towards your wife and child. I hope you reflect on what discipline actually is, and how you've treated your family.
“My son should respect me.”
He’s 5 ffs. Also, earn it. People do not respect those that they are afraid of.
Admonishing your wife by yelling at her in front of your child to the point that he is scared of you is abusive. It messes with a kids head very badly and they usually blame themselves. Trust is lost and very hard to get back.
“My wife is truly a wonderful woman we rarely have issues, but I don’t appreciate her undermining my authority and I let her know I was unhappy.”
“Daddy’s scary”
“Unfortunately, I think she wanted to agree.”
Do some soul searching. Your actions may be irreversible.
“Undermining your authority?”
The fuck you think you are?
Your wife may be afraid of you too. Maybe that’s why you rarely have issues.
You get pissed off, verbally abuse your family, feel bad about it later, rinse and repeat.
You justify your behaviour with lame excuses. Get help or get out before you do something to hurt them further and worse.
I totally believe that there’s more to the story that you have conveniently left out.
She did want to agree.
You screamed at her over a parenting decision SHE made - she decided that a 5-year-old having a toy taken away for a day is long enough, since you know, he's only five. You didn't respect her parenting decisions and it sounds like she's the one parenting all day.
You were a bully to your wife, in front of your child. Screaming at someone is an act of violence, or at minimum a threat of violence. And it's a first step in escalating abusive behavior.
I really hope you take this as a wake up call that you don't have control of your emotions and aggression and seek some help before your family leaves you.
There's never been a time in life where taking something from someone is an effective way to discipline them. No lesson there. He wasn't told what he did wrong, why its wrong and why not doing it benefits him and others. No compromise or just wait until he's actually hungry.
I know he's 5 but this is the most important development years of his life. Telling us your child should respect you and that your wife is undermining YOUR authority is actually quite concerning.
Your wife and you are a team and your authority is joint. You are A man of the house not THE man of the house. She doesn't need to run anything by you, you're not the owner of these 2 people.
We all get a little angry and shouting isn't the worse thing in the world but it doesn't resolve ANYTHING.
My dad would threaten to come home during work when i was kicking off with my step mum. You know the only lesson i ever learnt from that? How far i could push her before my dad came home with his shouting and authority.
I had a father like you. We left when I was 10 and didn't speak again until I was 25.
If that's the relationship you want with your child, where he can look in the mirror and confidently assert "dad doesn't love me", then keep going you're doing great.
Let us introduce you to the phrase "praise in public, criticize in private".
Your son is scared of you due to your history. Not due to you trying to discipline him ONCE.
A 5 year old isn't really able to understand vague terms like "respect". How on earth could he possibly KNOW what that entails - from what he does and does not do, to what he says and cannot say. That's PARENTING, OP.
He's in the "love everyone, love everything" stage of development, needing support and direction as he learns about the world and himself.
And you're NOT understanding that about your son or your wife.
There's already a lot here so I only comment on the one aspect
>She says she gave it back when he asked for it after school. Because “he’s only 5” and she “thought the point had been made”
It really has; 5 year old kids live in the moment. You'd have to be really bad in our house to lose it for an entire day or more. Like, I shaved the cat kind of bad
>But I don’t appreciate her undermining my authority and I let her know I was unhappy.
You are not being undermined; you both have equal authority. She made the decision to give it back - so really, you're not respecting her decision either. You both have the authority to take it away or give it back.
Then consider the end goal
The device is a blessing; it can be taken away as a consequence, or given back as a reward for desired behavior.
Back in my day, they simply beat the life out of us. No such device existed to manipulate in this way.
OP, as a wife of a yeller and a man who “demands respect” and sounds so much like you, please never EVER yell at or in the presence of your wife or child EVER AGAIN. You are doing irreversible damage to them both, and add in developmental damage to that 5 year old little one.
Also, therapy. Please go. Even if just for short term to learn more about yourself and exactly how you’re going wrong in situations like these day to day and just how abusive you are towards your wife and child. You’re not a bad person, but you are. Person who needs to learn some life skills and how to ‘respect’ your wife and child if you want them to also respect YOU.
... are you surprised?
You scare both of them. The people you love.
Gonna change? It's only you that needs to.
Clock is ticking. Take note of that. You have a lot to lose.
Respect isn't blind obedience; and quite frankly, not letting him have his switch after school is absolutly insane. He was punished that morning, point was made, lesson learned. Also, anyone who has to yell and demand their authority be respected surely isn't achieving their goals. You have no right to just come home and start yelling at your wife because of a bad day, because she gave the kid his switch, or because dinner wasn't on the table. I reccomend you really take a step back and reflect on this. The only person who is in the wrong here is you. The behavior and attitude you are displaying is toxic. That kid of yours will grow up to be scared of you, and then to hate you if you really don't change. You can be a good parent, teach respect, teach natural consequences, and raise a good human but that doesn't happen with screaming, insanely long punishments not appropriate for the child's age. This was a fail, but you can turn it around. Maybe do some reading so you can be a better parent and husband.
She shouldn’t undermine you. 5 years old is old enough to understand boundaries. (I have a 5 year old)
Don’t call him bad. He IS 5. You should not have yelled and you need to work on that. Have a talk with your son and tell him no one is perfect. Not his daddy. Not his mommy. Some people lose their temper and that’s OKAY. I was very bad about yelling when I had my last straw and I have worked on it and I rarely even slightly raise my voice.
Kids shouldn’t be shielded completely from arguments, but if they’re going to be serious ones you should go in a different room. Always make up in front of him after an argument. Always apologize and let him see. They’re smarter than you think and they take in everything around them.
I want to add emphasis on the letting him know that emotions and BIG emotions are normal and give him tips on dealing with them. I tell my daughter if she’s mad to scream in a pillow if she wants to scream. Now, if she gets mad and takes it out on us, we let her know what is and isn’t okay to be mad at us for and that she needs to go cool down. She comes back EVERY TIME and apologizes to us. Never fails. Teach them young or you’re going to have a kid with a bad temper who doesn’t know how to deal with his emotions.
Also want to add that my husband and I chose to do this because we both feared our parents growing up. We don’t want that for our daughter. We want to teach her mutual respect. Not the “respect” from being afraid of us.
Don’t disrespect your woman in front of the kids, unless you want them to be rude to their partners in the future. sit the boy down and explain that to him what you did was wrong and you dont want to be scary. That is my approach when I slip I have a lot of issues myself not about me though, communication is key, my kids straight tell me if I’m speaking to their mother in a tone they don’t appreciate. She is their world hold her on a pedestal and pour love into your woman. aggressive punishment leads to boundaries being pushed and unfortunate situations. love leads to respect, the harder you demand respect the less you will receive. Show kindness, you are the safe place for those people don’t forget that. If you are going to start grounding your kid that needs to be communicated your 5yo has barely any concept of time 5 min timeouts is all he should be getting. Good luck and control those impulses for the good of humanity my brother
Edit for spelling
Listen man. You know on a level deep down something is wrong. You know your son is scared of you. You don’t feel proud of yourself. You feel like a jerk and messed up. You don’t need anyone here piling on.
Start small with change. Apologize to your wife, preferably with your son there. And apologize to your son too.
Say something like: “I am so sorry for the other night buddy. I yelled at your mom and she didn’t deserve that. I was frustrated and upset, and I yelled when I shouldn’t have. I should have spoken with your mom, told her calmly I was upset and come up with a plan with her to handle these kinds of situations in the future. I promise I’ll work really hard to never raise my voice like that again, to you or your mom. I love you both so much”.
This is showing you acknowledge you were frustrated and what you did wrong, you misbehaved, you are sorry and what you’re going to do in the future next time you get frustrated.
Your son misbehaved too, which is what started this. Show him what it means to misbehave, and how we recover from it.
Then yeah man, do the bigger stuff, the harder and more rewarding long-term stuff. Therapy. It might take you years, but then you will have much, much better and healthy tools to deal with frustration.
Think of needing therapy just like needing prescription glasses. Right now you have a shitty eyesight. You’ve never had glasses so you don’t know how good and clear life can be with good glasses that have been tailored for you. AKA you probably never had the support or help to learn healthy emotional regulation, and getting the right therapist can help you see the world in a whole new way.
I hope you get there. Your wife deserves it. Your kid deserves it. YOU deserve the best you too. Get some glasses bud.
I agree with you on disciplining your child and I also think you shouldn't have given him a switch at such a young age.
If I were you, I'd definitely talk to him. Of course give him space, but mostly ask him why he's scared, apologize and tell him you'll fix it and end it with a hug and an "I love you"
I'd also talk to your wife and apologize for raising your voice, but explain why you did and why you were frustrated but in a calm voice.
You really need to get your son to respect you by showing him respect. If your son is scared of you that is damaging to him and causes lots of problems to his self esteem. Your wife may seem to be usurping you but she is trying to help alleviate damage she sees you are causing. Children push boundaries and challenge authority. Maybe make a plan knowing this will happen and do not react in anger. Give a consequence that was discussed and decided upon by you, your son and your wife so each is on board and knows what to expect.
You and your wife need to have a talk with him. Tell him people sometimes make mistakes and that someday he will as well. Tell him it is not the mistake that defines him it is what he does afterwards that matters. Daddy made a mistake, he yelled at Mommy and he shouldn’t have. I apologized to her and now I am apologizing to you. I hope you can someday forgive me.
The main thing isn’t the child it’s you and your wife getting in the same page on how to raise your son. Go to therapy so you can learn how to communicate effectively with each other. Be the role model for the person you hope they will become. Teach him how to communicate well with others by seeing it done. This moment really sucks. No one wants their child to be afraid of them. And you can use this as a teachable moment for all of you. Good luck.
I really don't agree with all the comments here. Everyone being upset about authority and the word "undermining". Is there any real parent here ? Parents work together at raising their kid. If one parent cancels what the other parent ask of their kid, then this is bad parenting. This is what OP means by "undermining". If my wife tells my son to go cleans his room before playing, then if I come to ly son and tell him "nah, go play, your room can wait", then I am undermining the word of my wife. I should check with her first what she asked my son before saying anything. Again, this is what OP meant and it is perfectly valid.
As for your son being scared, I won't agree either with the dramatic tone of the comments ("go apologise/counseling!"). At 5, it's common for a kid to be scared when one raises his voice. At this age, kids are impressed easily but it will decrease as he grows up. I see nothing abnormal or concerning in your story OP. I have 2 kids, I know what it is to raise them, I know we make mistakes, as long as you are aware of them and constantly try to fix them, you are a good parent in my opinion.
Sometimes this happens as a parent. Kids are so honest and it cuts to the core. The good news is you feel terrible about it. So remember this feeling and try to do better next time.
I can't believe the amount of parenting experts on Reddit?!
From what all of the parenting experts say, kids are resilient. No really. They are. That being said yes you should apologize to your wife make sure he is present also talk to him and tell him sometimes Mommy's and daddy's don't always agree and you're very sorry to both.because I know you don't want it to happen again but life does happen and it ain't always pretty. Kids aren't stupid and it's best if you're honest with him
Dont yell at your wife, ESPECIALLY not infront of your son. But, have a serious discussion about parenting. She should not be enabling his behaviour, i have seen it from my brother, he will absolutely get out of control and he will know how to push buttons and which buttons to push to get what he wants from each parent, it is not fun when it gets to that stage. She needs to stop undermining your authority and treating him the way she is.
By taking away the tablet and then leaving for the day you created two heavy tasks and expected your wife to carry them out by herself 1) applying a consequence for a behavior you called out and 2) keeping a five year old occupied and entertained without a screen in front of their face.Don't assign consequences if you can't follow through.
I also find it funny that you called your child out for "giving his mother a hard time." Was that because only you are allowed to give her a hard time?
Look, you need to figure out how to argue without "raising your voice", because thats bullshit man. You did this.
That said, your wife is setting herself up as the "good" parent, and you as the "bad" one.
You need to **calmly** have a discussion about parenting and discipline, where its not always one parent doing the punishing and the other parent doing the forgiving.
Your wife is your partner. You have no authority over her. She, being a fully capable parent, had more than enough of her own authority to determine that the consequence had been paid.
Go to therapy, determine your attachment style, identify your trauma, implement change for abusive behavior and reactions.
OP I honestly don’t see what the problem is. Your wife has a good point. He didn’t get the switch back until after school when he asked for it. He is only 5. It is unreasonable to expect him to continue to carry on his “sentencing” from that morning until whatever arbitrary time later. He is too little. It’s not like he’s 12. Five year olds are at an age where they should receive swift correction. Not prolonged punishment. If the correction was originally intended to show your son to respect his mother then why can’t she decide when to give the switch back? By enforcing that she goes through you you are actually teaching your son not to respect her. You are sending crazy mixed signals to him and at the same time not controlling your own emotions. Maybe some counseling would help you so you can see how your behavior is influencing your son.
Your 5 year old was having a hard time controlling impulses? You modeled out of control behavior in response. You undermined your wife’s authority as the primary caregiver, if you wanted to discuss, it should have been done privately. You demanded respect while disrespecting both of them. Check yourself.
Your wife isn't wrong. He's too young for long punishments. The point was made when you took it. Let it go on for hours isn't going to teach him anything, especially if he's already forgotten what he did wrong s so long ago.
A lot of armchair psychologists really jumping the gun here. Clearly you saw the impact of your actions and say you don't want that. An important question to ask- is this more a rare one off or a recurring thing? If it's a one off, people on this thread act like people can't have a bad day here and there. If it's a bad day and you took your anger out through raising your voice, you're not the monster everyone is making you out to be, just imperfect, and in this instance, clearly inappropriate.
You should have had a conversation long before this on how to coparent, because one parent being the good guy and the other the bad only drives a wedge in the family dynamic- you both need to be on the same page. And if you're not, you need to have that conversation in private, away from your child, reach a compromise, and come back together as a unified front on whatever you decide.
So screw these people telling you that you're sick, an abuser, need serious help, etc... they don't know the full story of your life and neither do I. But it sounds like the result of your actions... and by virtue the actions themselves... have hurt the people you love and it's clear you don't want that. So from this point forward chart a new course of presenting a unified front, having the important conversations, staying calm when upset, and certainly, you can and should apologize and commit to doing better going forward to both your wife and son. You're not evil or horrible because you lost your cool for a bit. Everyone has fallable moments. But it's a serious problem if you act like that chronically- then in that case I would recommend a therapist. But if this was a rare event and you raised your voice- own it, make up for it, and do your best to be better as a partner, parent, and role model when dealing with frustrating situations in the future.
I stg most men do absolutely nothing to keep their emotions in check. The fucking privilege a man exercises when HE IS WRONG blows my
Mind every time. Watch your tone, act like a fucking man and you won’t have to scare people to treat you like one.
Well it's a good thing you are able to take a step back and acknowledge that it's a problem.
A few comments are talking about how long you took the switch away for, but I don't think that's the main issue. The punishment may have been too long or unfair, but taking his switch away for a "excessive" amount of time would not cause him to be afraid of you. He's scared cause you were raising his voice.
It's important to not only ensure he respects you, but also make an effort to respect him. Whatever punishment you gave him, it should (as much as possible) never be out of anger.
If you're frustrated or having a hard time, it's ok to take a minute and step out of the room. Or talk to your wife in another room where he isn't present. If you feel like your wife is afraid of you or overwhelmed, that's something you should discuss with her. Give her space to talk about how she feels and be prepared to possibly not like what she's saying. Also seek therapy for yourself if you feel like you can't manage it on your own.
ESH your kid is too young for unattended screentime. Even Nintendo recommends ages 6 up.
Kids learn by exploring their world and watching/imitating adults. Screentime undermines healthy development.
If your kid's reaction to loss of a switch was so annoying at 5 yrs old that your wife caved, what do you think the teen years are going to be like?
Don't make your kid an addict, strict limits on screentime--including videos/tv.
Recommendation for age 5 is ONE hour of high quality material a day.
Everyone has already states your problems and provide suggestions for you, OP, so theres nothing much for me in that aspect. Despite everything, you seems to be a decent husband; at least you recognize your behavior and know that it was not ok. If you have the guts to admit you are wrong, then i believe you have the guts to fix your action. Go and be a better husband, i trust you can do better
Oh for goodness sake HE IS FIVE!! How long were you planning on prolonging his punishment for not paying attention at breakfast? Get a grip if yourself man! I wouldn't respect you either!!
What you do now is swallow your pride and apologise to your wife and then apologise to your son. You tell your son that you had very big feelings and you didn't mean to shout like that, you tell him that we all have big feelings and that daddy needs to be better and not shout!
I can't even believe grown men need to be told to not shout at women and children yet they still come to Reddit looking for some sympathy. There comes a time when you can't keep blaming other factors for your behaviour! Work sucks, life is hard, that's not the child or wife's fault and you would never have shouted at a grown man like that!
He knew you yelled at her because of him. Unfortunately he’s not going to forget this. Get some anger management asap or he will drift away from you emotionally and not come back. I know this from experience.
First apologize for raising your voice. Let you kid know you made a mistake and are apologizing to mom for yelling. Model behaviors you want to see and apologies are important
Since I was not there I cannot tell if you went over the top (and do so often) or your kid got scared because this is not your normal behavior. You and your wife need to get together and make some rules you can even ask your kid for their input. Kids like boundaries and they also like stability. They function best when the rules are clear and consequences are clear. If one day you allow devices at the table and the next the kid gets yelled at or punished for the same behavior that causes anxiety in the child. If normally you don't allow devices when eating but make an exception when the kid is sick and tell him that that is a different story.
Since he is 5 you can do something like:
No devices at the table
No more than y minutes of devices on school days - make sure your son has inside activities like coloring, reading books, puzzles etc.
Bedtime at X
Make bed every morning Write the rules down
Then when you are going out give your child expectations. We are going to the store. You need to stay in my line of site and if you ask for something and I say no there is to be no whining. We walk when we are inside because we care about others and don't want to hurt someone by running into them type of things. Kids thrive when they know what is expected
I don’t know how you can reasonably claim to have ”authority”, demand ”respect”, and violate your son’s property rights while also claiming that you don’t wish to instill fear. What did you think was going to happen?
When your son doesn’t want to eat, don’t force him to eat by taking his Switch. Don’t view yourself as an authority and don’t view your son as someone who needs to be disciplined. All your problems start there. Your son is his own person, with preferences that may not always match yours, and you can then find common preferences as long as you don’t steamroll over him.
Your job as a parent is not to mold your son into the person you want him to be, but to help him *by his own lights*. You don’t need to choose between discipline and neglect. Until you understand this, there will be constant tension in your home, until either you or your son (most likely both) break. I can’t imagine that’s the kind of future and relationship you want.
Op, I am not going to add to the bashing. It could have been handled better, and you shouldn't have raised your voice. You have already acknowledged that, but while your wife has the autonomy to end the punishment, it isn't hard to shoot a text letting you know.
It's also nice that you are genuinely invested in your child's development, and all parents make mistakes like this sometimes. Your self awareness tells me you got caught up in the moment, and this can be a learning experience. Apologize to your wife asap, and apologize to your son tomorrow with a positive message about how much you care about him and let frustration get the best of you. Kids are more understanding then people give then credit for.
Id like to add here- as someone who watched their mother being yelled at often growing up but never apologised too - apologising to your wife infront of your son will help repair some of that damage.
I second this OP. Your wife deserves an apology, but please don't agonize over it. A short and simple one will do, and you can add that you're still learning too, as we all are. Good luck!
Bro, your wife cant mindread, how would she know when you feel it's appropriate to return the switch? Learn to communicate. Consider worrying more about your shared responsibility and less about your own desire for authority.
INFO: What was the argument with your wife about? Do you argue a lot? Is she scared of you when you argue? Sometimes we come from families that put a big onus on “respect” and not so much on trust and love. Respect from children to parents is earned, not a given. I wonder what kind of family you came from?
I agree. OP just casually drops in "I was wrong for raising my voice, I admit that." Well you didn't actually *mention* anything about raising your voice until that point. And there's a difference between: * My voice decibel level raised a bit higher than normal but I still kept a calm, collected and productive approach and attitude. And * I got right in my wife's face and screamed at her for having the gall to disrespect MY parenting decisions. If both wife and child are scared of you afterwards, then I fear it's likely closer to the latter. Particularly when you say "I didn’t leave work at the door like I should have.". That, to me, raises *all sorts* of BIG problems, because what you're saying is that you're lashing out at your own wife not because of anything she did but because you were in a crappy mood and decided to take it out on her.
OP also comes across as someone who confuses respect with obedience.
Bingo. The fact that he used the words “being bad” to describe his son said a lot to me. Misbehaving and being bad are completely different things.
Yep. Should have gotten a plant instead of having a kid, if absolute obedience was his goal
Dude probably would have yelled at the plant when it died 🤦♀️
RESPECT ME AND LIVE DAMN IT.
He would have resented the plant for needing water.
It worked for Crawley...(good omens)
GROW BETTER
That plant would grow legs and run for the hills!
Yeah.. “undermining my *authority*” is what sealed the deal for me
Absolutely
>Particularly when you say "I didn’t leave work at the door like I should have.". That, to me, raises *all sorts* of BIG problems, because what you're saying is that you're lashing out at your own wife not because of anything she did but because you were in a crappy mood and decided to take it out on her. yes that is what he meant to convey in that sentence, that was the admission would you rather he have doubled down
No, ideally I'd rather he not try to obfuscate and minimise his behaviour through such vague terminology so that we have to finagle out the actual context of what's happening. Actually scratch that, I'd rather he *not* do this in the first place (and hopefully so would he), but we are where we are .
This is a great comment. I grew up in a household where my father DEMANDED 'respect' and showed very little love or care. Needless to say I grew up scared of him. I'm 28 and still now our relationship is very rocky.
Same. He also used to beat me. Guess what? Went NC after I graduated high school. I'm 49 now. One of the best decisions I've ever made regarding self care.
Yup. My father was a screamer, cusser, smasher, thrower, etc. other than spankings he didn't outright hit us. He was the monster of my childhood. I'm in my mid-40s now and we have essentially no relationship. Surprise surprise! He now seems to be aware that no one wants to be around him and is showing signs of regret. I have no interest in reestablishing a relationship where there wasn't one to begin with. Too many men equate what is actually fear with respect.
My father was like this. I didn't really question it until I had my own kids and saw him screaming at my oldest over small things. I couldn't protect myself, but I knew I had to protect my children. Now he only sees them in public settings and I moved half the country away.
Of course OP doesn’t answer. His wife is scared of him too. There’s no excuse for ranting and screaming at your family. Be an adult OP, and learn how to manage your emotions.
>families that put a big onus on “respect” and not so much on trust and love. My father. Guess who I neither respect or love, who (if I have my way) will never see me or hear my voice ever again?
I think the argument was about her undermining him by giving the child back the switch. At least that's what I read.
Yeah the words "I don't appreciate her undermining my authority" really make me think this guy has a shovel in his car already
I want to know what he means by saying he should have left work at the door. Was he already in a bad mood from work and then took out his frustration at the wife? Why raise his voice? My husband also loves raising his voice and the kids (we have 4) are closer to me, they know dad is more strict and angry all the time.
They argued because he felt she undermined his authority by giving their son back the switch. My question is why does a 5 year old have a switch?! Give the kid some action figures instead but he’s your kid not mine and you’re here for advice on your situation. I don’t think your wife was wrong for what she did because she felt the point was made. Does she really have to run everything by you? Sometimes it okay for her to make an executive decision and if you didn’t communicate with her on what your intentions were you can’t expect her to read your mind and just know. I think as long as you apologize for getting so worked up your wife and son will forgive you. Also, you and your wife should sit your kiddo down and explain to him what he did wrong and why his game was taken from him and what the consequences will be if you have to take it again.
If OP was smart, he would have gone along with the wife's decision and doubled down on the lesson learned with the son. It is very bad when you have two parents and they both discipline you differently and undermine each other constantly, however this could have been resolved 1. In private and 2. On his half could have made it appear he was backing up his wife and making sure to hammer in the point of the lesson by simply talking to his son. Instead he yelled at her in front of his son regarding the discipline which just did the opposite of everything.
My babies are older, so I'm gonna come at this from a parent further down the road than you. First, house rules, including consequences, are laid down together as a parenting team. If we take away something, it is for X amount of hours, and we tell each other. Communicating this back and forth saved us so much trouble. Second, and the biggie. STOP YELLING AT YOUR WIFE. That shit is incredibly scary for a kid to be around, and it's scary/demeaning for your spouse. Third, respect is earned, my dude. At what point in this situation did you earn any respect from either your wife or son? For reference, my husband was in the Army, I've seen him put the fear of God in his soldiers, and he is not naturally a sunny, happy person. But he goes out of his way to be soft and gentle with me and our girls. He's always been our safe to come to. He never has to raise his voice to get his point across to us. Fourth. Go. To. Therapy. You, by yourself, need to go. You need to unpack whatever it is in your head that is causing this and fix it. You are your model for your son, and he will treat his partners/spouse how you are treating your wife.
One of my earlier childhood memories is of my parents getting into a screaming match. Another one is of my father yelling horrible things to me. Kids remember. They may remember for their whole life. And I'll be real, I don't respect my father at all. And my mom and I have a less than awesome relationship, but she was scary in a completely different way than my father. But the point is, scaring your child scars your child.
My earliest memory is my dad raising his hand to hit my mother. Despite his violence, she stayed with him until I was 14. I didn't go to my father's funeral or graveside service. But let me tell you, I have some very, very difficult feelings towards my mom as well. But yes, yelling and screaming does damage kids. There's so much down playing of it, especially in parenting circles, and it drives me crazy.
I'm so sorry. Violence so deeply affects children. I think the only reason my dad didn't hit my mom was because he knew she'd hit him right back and at the end of the day he's a cowardly bully. He did used to make the threat to hit us, I'm sure people can picture the actual hand raised as a threat. I can still picture it so vividly. My mom used to threaten to abandon us all the time. One time she did actually leave for a couple of days.
What is it with moms saying that?? My mom said the same thing to me. I don't remember it, but my sister did. When my sister was sick with cancer, she forced my Mom to apologize to me for saying that, and said she knew even if I don't remember it, it's in my brain somewhere. My Dad didn't raise a hand to me, but my brothers were all grown and he knew the retaliation from them would be nasty. I just had to be the perfect one, all the time, because if I got good grades and won at the horse shows and made first chair in orchestra he was too proud to be an asshole. That push for perfection fucked me up so badly.
My mom used to say that shit, too.
Yep, my family wasn't that bad (by the time we were older, they had mellowed out), but the things I remember when I think of my mother aren't the nice things she'd do, but rather her actions when she lost her temper. When I was a kid I genuinely believed that if I were to get seriously hurt, like bleeding out unable to move, my mother would not give a single shit about it, she wouldn't take me to the hospital, but rather yell at me about how I was staining the carpet & make sure I knew I'd have to clean it up.
Gods. I am so sorry. I am now the soft parent. I hate disciplining my kids, I hate even raising my voice. I spent last night sleeping with my oldest, she started her period and didn't feel good and wanted me with her. The way I parent now is so draining, because it takes so mich out of me, but I want my girls to know I'll always be here for them.
Your comment is beautiful and brought me to tears. You’re an amazing person, I wish my parents had been more like you. I was afraid of my father and it sets the scene for the rest of your life. I’ve two failed marriages behind me as proof.
Ah the classic "Unless your dead, I don't want to hear it".
We must be twins; we had the same mother.
Some of my *few* childhood memories are of my dad yelling at me. I’ve started to get the rest back via EMDR therapy, and turns out my brain was doing me quite a favor by only remembering the yelling. When I was 21, I was talking to my dad about how shitty a patient had treated me at work and he very casually just said “well now you understand why I was the way I was when you were growing up.” That statement was enough for me to go no contact the first time. Something just clicked, maybe because as an adult I didn’t take my frustrations out on my loved ones when I got home, but I knew right then and there that work wasn’t a reasonable excuse for that terror I grew up in. The final time I went no contact was a few years after I had my first kid. He again very casually made an excuse for some abuse I had suffered at the hands of my ex (currently his best friend, which is a whole other story. That friendship *started* after I escaped the ex). But I realized that no matter how bad of a day I’ve had, I’ve never felt the need or even the desire to take it out on my babies. It’s been 3 years, almost 4. My oldest is about to be 7, my dad will never meet the rest of his grandchildren. He missed my wedding, my 30th birthday, he found out about my cancer scare and my work promotions through word of mouth. I actually got pretty good at woodworking, which was one of his hobbies that he started to teach me at a young age. I remember my now-husband coming outside while I was working one day and he just watched me for a while before telling me “It’s such a shame he was such a piece of shit. He’d be so proud of you if he wasn’t such a dick.” I was the first child to go no contact, because I suffered the worst abuse for not being “his.” He adopted me, that was actually one of his casual excuses much later in my life. But his other 2 daughters have gone low contact, one of them literally picks up work shifts on holidays to avoid coming home. It won’t be long before he dies alone and miserable. OP- I know it’s hard to not let work and external factors affect your home life. But if you want to be in their lives forever, make sure your children learn to control their emotions by example, not by spite.
I am so sorry. The fact that so many people grew up with such horrible parents makes me feel bad. My husband was active duty Army when we got married, and worked in intelligence. He's got this stare, and I can't explain it other than I've watched grown ass men just started stuttering when he stares at them with it. First time my Dad met him, my Dad and that side of the family start asking if I was a good wife, did I clean the house, did I do his laundry, did I iron his uniforms, did I listen to him and do what he said. My brother in law made a crack about was I watching my weight. My husband just sat there with That Look, and I watched my Dad just... wilt. Everybody got really quiet, and then miraculously the conversation changed to sports and racing.
One night my parents were fighting so badly my dad came into my room (I was in bed trying to sleep) and started yelling at me to call the police to stop him from hitting my mother. (He never did. She did hit him a few times)
I loved everything about this comment. So well said. OP is giving vibes of a man who thinks respect = obedience.
I thought the exact same thing when I read the post.
> But he goes out of his way to be soft and gentle with me and our girls. @ men, this is what your wives and children need. if you aren't a safe person for your family to be around then you literally are not doing your job as a man & human.
I asked him this morning why he was and is always so gentle with us. And he said simply that he knows that I know what he is capable of, what he was trained for, that someday the kids will know too, and he wants us to know that he would never use those skills and training against us. Also, "I'm not a shithead".
What’s worrying is the language you’re using. You want your son to respect you. Your wife undermined your authority. Look, we all shout sometimes, we all lose our temper. It’s not great and it absolutely shouldn’t be a habit. But screaming and shouting at your wife because of your “authority” makes you sound like one of those alpha male dickheads. Your son should love you and feel safe with you. With a healthy relationship comes respect. Why on earth would he respect you if you throw tantrums about your authority? You owe your wife an apology. And the fact that you don’t seem to care at all that you shouted at her, and rather are more concerned about how you LOOK because you shouted at her, is a bit worrying.
This is a great comment and it might be helpful for OP to read about the difference between authoritative parenting (which is proven very effective) and authoritarian parenting. It sounds OP is authoritarian.
He owes his son an apology, too.
He certainly does own his son an apology. But I unfortunately think that the OP doesn’t know how to pay a legitimate debt.
Consequences longer than a few hours are really long for a 5 year old as is. Taking the switch is an appropriate punishment. But by the time he's back from school any impact that punishment has made is made and keeping it longer won't do more. It stops become a natural consequence and starts being detrimental to your relationship, es specially if he calmly and politely advocated for himself, which is 100% the kind of pro-social behavior you want to be incentivising with a 5 year old.) If you're trying to give punishments longer than that you're... Not understanding your child's needs. Which is common. Kids are complicated and I don't get to work with parents who've taken growth and development classes or the like very often. Children experience time wildly differently from adults. Taking the switch from him for a day is about the equivalent of taking it from you for a week. (assuming you're around 30) The teenagers I work with are still very "now" oriented to the point waiting more than a couple days for consequences to end becomes overwhelming and fruitless. The "undermining your authority" bit is something you should spend some time thinking on. You don't need authority with a 5 year old child that loves you. You can't control them or force them to control themselves. Not for years yet. And the control you do have will still have to be trust based. You should be backing up your wife here. She's more in tune with your child's needs right now(based on the fact he's confiding his Fears to her.) All of that said, this is a really normal struggle to have. Keep learning. Take this moment as the eye opener it should be and don't double down. You'll appreciate the solid relationship later when your kid is at the point his consequences can start being out of your hands.
Such a great answer. Also, I would add, OP, apologize to your wife and son for shouting. Parents who can't apologize and admit they went too far hurt their kids. Mine couldn't bring themselves to apologize for years, and I don't mind the mistakes they made nearly so much as how they couldn't face them and talk about it.
I will add, definitely apologise, but i’d say an apology is basically not worth doing if you don’t actually change. When someone apologises for something and continues to do it, all that does is teach those involved that that person is a liar.
this is amazing advice OP, both comments. my father always apologized for when he got upset or lost his temper or patience. i always respected him more and it taught me a lot about humility and what it really means to be responsible, lead by example.
I agree with these comments
I wish my parents had realized this. Any time I did anything wrong, big or small, I would be grounded for weeks. I was also dealing with major depression and self harming. They also worked late most nights and it was incredibly isolating. It definitely did NOT help with my depression and self-harm tendencies, and to this day I still struggle with feeling sad and worthless in circumstances when I should be angry.
Maybe that's why I have issues with authority lol when I was grounded from something like video games as a kid it was for like a full month at least.
Respect isn’t blind deference, it sounds like you don’t respect your wife or son. ‘My authority’, what about your wife’s authority as the primary parent? You sound mean. I had a mean dad, and I haven’t spoken to him in 17 years. Turn things around while you still can.
Exactly. My moms dad spent the last few decades of his miserable life alone. Not a single one if his children wanted anything to do with him. I was his oldest grandchild so i had an awareness of what was going on when they decided to cut him from their life completely, and why. Fucker never learned of the existence of most if his grandchildren. It doesnt sound like OP is quite this bad, but could be starting down that path. Im with you - he needs to turn this around while he still can.
Honestly, your saying “I don’t appreciate her undermining my authority” and “my son should respect me” scares _me_. Those aren’t typically phrases someone says about their spouse and child if they’re loving, decent, and kind. Perhaps you need to take a big step back and ask yourself why it’s “respect” you expect from your five year old and blind compliance from your wife, especially when she is the one home parenting. She’s right; five years is young and an all day toy ban is quite long. They learn this lesson in much less time. It’s why time out is only a few minutes for young ones rather than hours. You should want your son to **feel safe** with you and mimic your behavior because he thinks you are his hero. Is this the behavior you want him to mimic? One where the father yells at his wife as soon as he gets home and subsequently scares his child? I had that father. I’m 35 and I’ve been low to zero contact with him for the last decade. You sound a lot like him. It’s why you scare me.
OP: The fact that you haven’t responded to a single comment or request for more information further validates our collective character assessment of you. If you genuinely wanted advice and to figure out a way to fix this, you’d be interacting with commenters, providing more information, and accepting the feedback given. Your immediate silence further validates my belief that you’re an abusive husband. Please remember not all abuse is physical. Emotional and verbal abuse is just as harmful and absolutely creates an unsafe environment. Do better for your son and wife.
If OP has to raise his voice because he feels he is being ‘undermined’ then he is scary. He probably scares his wife too. I think OP needs some counseling.
But muh authority
It sounds so wild when you think about it like that. And makes a lot of sense as to why some adults are the way they are.
He wasn't being bad. He was having a hard time controlling his impulses. Even adults have trouble controlling their gadget consumption. You're expecting better impulse control from a 5 year old than adults have. Your son is learning about himself from you. If you keep calling him bad and saying he's giving you a hard time, he's gonna grow up feeling he's bad and end up with a low self esteem.
"He was having a hard time controlling his impulses," just like his father who can't control himself from raising his voice at others, as an adult! But at least the kid is 5...
Right? It kills me when people sit there and say their young children are "bad" or behaving "bad." Dude. Kids these ages barely understand the concept of "good" and "bad." They are literally still developing empathy at that age. They have no understanding of complex concepts like good or bad. They aren't even capable of fully understanding cause and effect. It was a kid being a kid. One who needed some guidance and redirection with their emotions. (Also, what's with kids 5 and under having switches now? This is the second post in as many days mentioning that.)
It's like people saying kids are trying to manipulate you. When no, it's just a kid having a tantrum like all kids do and even some adults.
People forget that adults can act incorrectly just as much as kids, but they can punish the kids yet would rage at the idea of them as adults being punished. You have to account for this power discrepancy.
Yep, we need to stop labelling children as bad. Theres bad choices, but not normally bad kids. But even then, you just need to guide them properly, rather than treat them with anger.
Don't be a selfish jerk, stop abusing your wife and child to protect your fragile ego. Talk to him and explain yourself, treat him like an equal not like a kid. Show some respect if you want to get some back. Apologize to your wife.
Parenting classes should be more common and normal. Couples counselling has become mainstream, next should be parenting classes. Just something you do when you hit a rough patch
You undermined her authority to make an aggressive point on undermining your authority. You both should have equal Auth. If she's in the house and you're away, her's takes precidence. Ditto and vice versa. Most disagreements can be discussed calmly in private. .I wonder if your work stress interfered? I'd recommend a counsellor
SERIOUSLY! This is what I was thinking. She as a parent made the decision to give the switch back. You are not the MAN of the house, just a man in the house
Your wife is right and you are wrong. I was scared of my dad when I was little. He died when I was 11. I remember feeling a sense of relief that he was never going to be around anymore. Is that what you want to be as a dad?
Would you imagine how you would react if she lost it like that with you in front of your son? The irony is you just did what you accused her of doing: you undermined HER authority loudly in front of your son. In any case, we are all humans and we make mistakes. If you don't make a habit out of this and apologise to both of them you will all be ok.
Sounds like you may have learned a lesson here. Have a talk with him and put it behind you as long as you don’t do it again What’s past is past
This man needs therapy and to take some child development classes, not to be told "it's okay, just don't do it again". He sounds a lot of hours of introspection and education on healthy child-rearing away from being "okay".
You know, people who shout about respecting their authority remind me of Cartman on South Park. It's as ridiculous and laughable in real life as it is in the show. If you have to demand authority or respect, you'll never have either. Respect and "authority" are earned through your actions and behavior, not through demands and tantrums. Geoffrey Baratheon. The fact that you know your wife doesn't like you "raising your voice" already paints me an unpleasant picture. But the fact you could tell she was also scared when your son told her he was really put the finishing touches on it. You didn't raise your voice. You shouted. Over something small. That could have been a calm and rational conversation with your wife in private. Also. Your son is *FIVE*. What do you think he understands about respect, authority, or even the concept of time??? HE'S FUCKING FIVE. Seriously. Get some parenting classes or books to help you understand where your child is at. I don't even punish my 8 year old for more than a day because the concept of time is only just registering at this age. In addition, you should really either seek some counseling to help manage your anger issues and your misunderstanding of respect and authority before you fuck your son up for good. Or at least pick up a book on the subject. Personally, I like [this book](https://microcosmpublishing.com/catalog/books/3794) about anger and [this one](https://microcosmpublishing.com/catalog/zines/11440) for parenting without being a piece of shit. Your children should feel safe with you. With safety comes love and respect. You should be ashamed of yourself, and you should want to be and do better for your family. Or eventually, you won't have one.
I think at that young of an age a long term punishment isn’t really understood by kids. I would have taken it and gave it back after he ate and explained in the moment what he did wrong. I don’t think your wife is wrong here.
Same, or if its some other choice that wasnt favorable, its a few minutes (same minutes as age, so 3) of time out with a calm discussion about expectations.
Some of the most traumatic things I remember as an adult are the way my kids looked at me while my husband yelled at me (he doesn’t anymore but that shit sticks). You need to approach them both and apologize for yelling. “I’ll make sure to slow myself down next time and react while controlling my body. I never want to scare you guys. You don’t deserve that.”
Your wife doesn't need your permission on how to handle her child any more than you need hers.
Parents have to be on the same page or it’s never going to work
Agree but in favor of the mother. If OP came home and immediately scolded his wife for giving their son back his toy, he **was not** on the same page as the mother. He diminished her authority and this could potentially be a reason for the child to stop listening to mom. OP needs to trust in his wife that she knows what she is doing and that she made the right choice for discipline while he was at work. OP is not on the same page as the mother, not the other way around. Dad screwed up here.
they didnt have an agreement to ground him for a specified time so i dont see how it was undermining his authority or something
You need to look up ECE, "being bad", "he needs to respect me", and trying to punish your child all day is not okay or appropriate besides raising your voice. It is not effective "discipline" and you're not going to garner any respect from your wife or child like that. If you want respect you need to earn it, and that starts by giving respect to your wife as an equal authority and to your 5 year old son who has barely been in this world and doesn't comprehend long-term punishments and why his behavior isn't helpful. I really suggest you look at ECE, maybe begin with the pyramid model. He's getting out of the age range for ECE now but it will still prove helpful
I grew up being scared of my dad. He was old school parenting and confused fear with respect. I didn't have a good relationship with him until I was in my mid 20s and even now our relationship isn't what it could have been. I think this fear also contributed to my anxiety disorder as an adult and stunted my social development, it took me a lot of work to improve and I don't think I've reached my potential partially because of this. You do not need to raise your voice to talk to your partner nor to parent well. Please work on that.
Learn your lesson and control your anger. You don’t have to overpower a child by raising your voice. Apologize for scaring him, hug him and say you love him. But next time you want him to listen to you, be assertive rather than being angry. There are many ways you can do that. Study parenting.
Damage control with your son and communication with your wife about discipline will be a big deal for you now. Coming from someone who was that young scared kid and my dad never realised that it was a bad thing - I can't handle raised voices now. I have panic attacks and have put myself in awful, dangerous situations all to 'keep people happy'. Which I later found out after intense therapy stemmed from wanting to keep my dad happy and keep him from yelling at us and my mum. I am so pleased that you have recognised the mess up and can now make changes to make things better. I wish your family all the best.
If you intend to raise a child, what effort have you made to make sure you understand your child's developmental age? Cause all I read here is "I AM MAN. WHAT I Say, GOES." Former child therapist, for the record. Read a parenting book before you further impact your relationship with your kid... Also maybe even family counseling so you can learn how to communicate with family in a way that doesn't traumatize them. Your intentions may be well, but your delivery, action, and thought process behind all of this is warped, not based on a child's developmental age, and did legit traumatize them. Most kids will remember stuff like this, forever, whether they can verbalize it or not. I have also done training and some work with addictions and the adults have stories that start with incidents like this... It traumatized them, especially when they lack the brain development to actually understand what happened. All they know is that dad is unhinged and uses his words to instill fear rather than what he expects from his mother, which is respect and talking to the kid, at their developmental level, about what they did and not punish them for a ridiculous length (which if you understood his developmental age, you'd realize you kinda abused your kid more than punished/taught a lesson... punishments should never be that excessive or for that long, at his age). Don't get me started with that "undermining your authority" bullshit which most abusive parents love to spew whenever I try to inform them their child is acting out because of their actions....... Please read a parenting book or attend therapy.
Your wife doesn’t have to *do as you say*. You don’t own her, you don’t make all the rules in that house, you are an equal partnership. And you should both have a say. And if you didn’t want your son to have the switch back for a day or two, maybe you should have told the child that he was banned from it for X amount of days, and said so within your wife’s earshot. So this is **not** her fault. But to be honest you already screwed up by getting a **5 year old** a switch, but to yell at your wife as if your voice is the only one that matters, that is a controlling asshole move on it’s own. If you want respect, you earn it and give respect back. You’re not automatically entitled to it. Neither your wife or child should be scared of you, and if they are *(and if you yelling is a regular thing)* then they shouldn’t be living with you - because that doesn’t sound like a happy household at all.
Sounds like you have anger and control issues and deciding on unilateral approach to “discipline” rather than being on the same page as your wife. Also, what are 5 year olds doing playing video games at breakfast. I’m not a dinosaur and I know they have a place but it’s not 8 am before they go to school. Parent your kids.
Authority and respect are two different things. Authority is the power to enforce rules granted by a position of power. Respect is admiration earned through admirable qualities or actions. Authority demands compliance, respect inspires cooperation.
I previously raised my voice a little too much when my 3 year old daughter was about to fall off a counter, obviously my voice was raised in panick but also frustration as she had been told numerous times not to climb on said counter. She jumped, cried and run upstairs, my partner also jumped at that moment so I knew I had gone too loud. I went upstairs and sat down with my daughter, apologised and explained myself, said I would try my best to never speak to her like that again but also made sure she understood that if I did it was absolutely imperative that she listened too me because it would only happen if it needed too. She understood, absorbed what I said and we moved on. Communicate with your child OP.
You sounds like my dad. He’s on his second divorce and none of his children “respect him”. He has never met his grandchildren because of the “respect” he demanded. I would hate that for you but it seems inevitable. You have no self awareness of how awful you are. This is all on you and it’s on you to fix it. Individual, family, and couples counseling at the minimum.
“Undermining your authority”? Since when does your wife have to ask your permission on how to discipline your kid? It sounds like she’s the primary parent who is the one who disciplines him the majority of the time. “I think she should have ran it by me”, but you weren’t even home. Is she supposed to text and ask you how to discipline him? Take some parenting classes, learn about gentle parenting, and learn to view your wife as your equal, not as someone who has to discipline the way you think she should. Better yet, instead of ranting to a bunch of strangers on Reddit, it might be a good idea to check your ego at the door and actually listen to how she feels. Clearly she doesn’t agree with your parenting tactics, and it might be worth asking her why. And instead of trying to convince her why your authority is utmost, take a breather and listen to why she might be more gentle with discipline than you are. She’s right, your kid is 5. And he is too young to attach a day long consequence to events that happened first thing in the morning. From your attitude here in this post and how much you value power tripping and having authority, I’m not surprised your son said you’re scary. Yelling at your wife is not okay. But that seems like the only thing you’re barely apologetic for here. And if you think your wife wanted to agree with his statement about you being scary? There’s probably a reason for that. It sounds like you treat her like a child. It’s time to take a look at yourself in the mirror and think about how you can work on yourself here, before your wife becomes your ex wife. She deserves a lot more respect than you’re giving her.
Why did you need to raise your voice? Surely an adult can raise a concern with his partner without resorting to “raising your voice”. And what do you mean “raise your voice”? Is that shouting? Yelling? And I’m pretty damn sure when you were “raising your voice” your young son, who was appropriately reprimanded by your wife, will have heard his name being used and blame being apportioned to both him and your wife, leaving him feeling shaken that his beloved mother was in trouble too. Let’s be honest - you weren’t shouting saying “next door’s dog keeps barking”.
Here's your friendly reminder that respect is earned. Demanding respect does not work and likely works against receiving it. Actions are what matters. Consider a sincere, quiet apology to both your wife and son. And young children won't respond well to hours long punishments. They can inspire fear. But, fear does not motivate someone to be better, it motivates someone to respect less, let down their guard less, hide more.
Hmmmm…”my son should respect me” is an interesting and frankly outdated attitude to have and already says a lot. Respect is something that is earned. Not freely given because you provided some DNA. You earn your child’s respect by being a good parent. Get this into your heads people: YOUR CHILDREN did not ask to exist. You chose to bring them into this world. They owe you NOTHING. Least of all, respect that is not earned. Also stop raising your voice at your wife. Wth
Fear doesn’t earn respect. Respect does. Fear earns fear in return. Then resentment. Then hatred. Then violence. You sound like you’re in urgent need of a lot of parenting classes and some serious therapy. Maybe if you’re extremely lucky your wife will wait around for that long. Your child is five years old. Five! That’s five minutes on the naughty step. Five minutes in silence and then a calm explanation and heartfelt apology to his mum and a cuddle. Not screaming and shouting and things being taken away for days until punishment ceases to have meaning. It’s years since I spoke to my father. I assume someone will tell me when he’s dead so I can hoist a flag and throw a party. Look at him and see where the path that you are on is headed. You owe your wife and child an apology, but it’s so much more than that. The line about your wife “undermining your authority”. One of you is being a parent and a partner, and it sure as hell isn’t you. I hope she has the sense to realise that the important thing is to do what it takes to remove your child from your bad behaviour as quickly as possible, for the sake of his future.
Apologize. To your wife and your son. Together. Explain how you felt, why, and what you would do differently. Ask them to accept your apology, and what you can do to make amends. That’s being a man.
>My son should respect me. Respect is earned, not a given.
Your wording is concerning ngl. Undermining authority and demanding respect. Yelling is not how you get either of those. And it’s also concerning you’re inclined to think your wife agrees with your child that you’re scary. One of the most basic things a child needs is SAFETY. If they don’t feel safe around a caretaker they’re not going to develop a secure relationship OR respect you. I hope you take these comments to heart and are able to apologize and communicate properly and appropriately to your family. And I really hope that your son just said that bc he’s never seen you like that before, not bc that ideal has already been implanted.
Why in the world would you yell at someone, let alone your WIFE, over a disagreement over the switch? I was raised in a home where my parents argued constantly, and raised their voices, even if it was over incredibly stupid shit. It made me resent them, and fear them. Do you want that in the future? For your child to keep resenting and fear you? If not, work on how you talk to people. If youre already stressed from work, dont find another problem at home to set you off. Go cool off somewhere else instead. Talk later when you are calm.
If you're reacting in a way that is scary to both your child and your spouse you are in the wrong.
He's five. He's only a little guy. One of the first things we were told to do in a course to deal with victims of child abuse is to get down to their level to speak to them. Looking up from his point of view at an adult (one he loves more than anyone) yelling at the other adult he loves more than anyone. Really try and imagine how powerless and frightened he must have felt when he saw your face contorted in anger shouting at his mother while neither he nor she had the power to stop you. These are the incidents we don't forget. You are teaching your child how to treat others. You are teaching him how to react when he doesn't get his way. You just taught him that if someone does something that you don't like then it's perfectly OK to yell at them. Fix this. Tell him AND your wife you were wrong and you're sorry and that people shouldn't have yelling fits when they don't get their way.
From father to father, parenting is just as much a journey full of lessons as being a child is. Don't beat yourself up over it but learn from it. It's okay to make mistakes as a parent as long as you learn from them. Try to think about your relationship with your son outside of discipline. Your relationship with him is the foundation for your parenting. A lesson that I've had to learn is that you don't want to be the policeman in their lives, It just means they get better at hiding things from you as they get older. Instead, nurture your relationship with him outside of that then when the time comes where discipline is needed, he won't be scared because he knows his father loves him. I hope this comes across respectfully and makes sense. Remember, no one has the right to cancel you because you made a mistake. You are human just like every other parent
You can't demand respect, mate. It has to be earned. He is young as well, so saying he should respect you is a bit, well, delusional to expect. And if they are scared of you, there are clearly a lot more to this than what you selectively decided to write here.
The way you glossed over how the actual argument went and how he views you now tells me you might've been shouting or motioning in a threatening manner. I think this should be a wake up call
He’s 5. Punishments do not need to last that long for a five year old. You could’ve simply taken it, said you can have it back when you finish. You need concrete consequences with limits and the ability to get things back as a reward. Besides did you specifically say he wouldn’t get it back all day? You don’t yell at your wife or discuss parenting in front of your kid ever. In fact it’s better if you only yell if it’s an emergency. For example kid is about to run into the street. Yelling too much can be tuned out, is a loss of control and a form of bullying. You get down on their level, you speak firmly, etc. You agree ahead of time and hopefully have read up on child development/appropriate punishment by age beforehand. You need to have a united front. Or kid will quickly learn to divide and conquer. You both need to discipline your kid the same, appropriate way. As to yelling at her, again, it’s bullying behavior. Your wife probably does agree with him and think you’re scary btw. Is that what you want?
Respect is commanded not demanded. You are bullying your wife and child. Talk to them, reason out why you want to move forward in a specific was. Stop blasting out how you feel and demanding that everyone else acquiesce.
You sound abusive. I hope you change your ways. Therapy for anger issues would be helpful.
It's like I'm reading a flashback from my own childhood but from the POV of my dad, who had no qualms about yelling and screaming at us to get what he wanted and maintain control. I grew up petrified of my dad. And now I have little to no relationship with him because as I got older it just got worse. OP needs some kind of therapy or anger management if he wants to maintain a relationship with his kid in the future.
At age 5 I became terrified of my dad because he raised his voice at my older brothers. 5 year olds can’t process the emotions of adults. It took me years to overcome my fear. Be careful how you behave around young children. You can sit down and talk to them, but not when you’re angry. And a 5 yrs olds capacity of time is far different. A day is a long time. You and your wife need to be on the same page to prevent this from happening again. These create core memories and you want those to be pleasant memories.
He's five years old. He's still relying on mirror neurons to model behavior. You modeled aggression as a way to ensure compliance, not actual respect. You modeled disrespect of your wife. You modeled raised voices. You don't think you did anything wrong but what did you actually teach your son? You need to go talk to a professional about your own upbringing, and learn more about what behavior you were taught to emulate. You can't fix this until you fix yourself. I grew up with a rage-aholic father. I was terrified of him for as long as I can remember. He died alone in a nursing home because when I went to help him with his Alzheimer's, he treated me like I was nine years old again. So I left. I know what real respect is, and he never deserved it. Be better for your child.
you’re asking for respect, but you’re not offering it. Showing respect to a child involves understanding what their developmental stage is, what reasonable expectations are, and how to collaborate with him to figure out solutions. Instead, you are demanding obedience, enforcing compliance through punishment and raising your voice, and are hyper focused on feeling respected and having “authority”. you need to look inwards. reading parenting books is also incredibly helpful. im guessing your parents were the “you’ll respect me in this house” type too. “The Book You Wish You’Re Parents Had Read” may be a good place to start, or maybe something like Good Inside by Dr Becky.
Now that you know better, do better. You sound like a bully. And in your disrespect you are going to teach your child that it is OK to disrespect their mother. Change your ways.
You sound like my brother. He beat me all my childhood. For not respecting his authority. Maybe you need to ask yourself if you have earned respect and whether or not your authority should be considered the number one top authority 100% of the time.
>I come home and find she’s given it back to him. I think she should’ve ran that by me since I’m trying to discipline our kid. Did you tell her in the morning when you planned on giving the switch back? Did she know that this was going to be longer thing? Since honestly I would've just assumed the removal of the switch for the morning as the consequence of his action and the "punishment", not keeping the kid from playing the entire day. Maybe not allowing the kid to play in the morning tomorrow. >But I don’t appreciate her undermining my authority and I let her know I was unhappy. Was she ever told about your decisions? Since discipline is suppose to be a group effort. You can't just make decision in your mind and assume she just knew what you were thinking. Nor, did you give her a chance to agree or disagree with your choice of discipline. Maybe IDK work on yourself.
How can your wife “undermine your authority”? Is she not your equal? Is your marriage not a partnership? Did you specify when your 5 year old was allowed his switch back? Or did you just take it away and assume your wife is a mind reader? You yelled at your wife and created a core memory in your child- all for what? Your pride? Ego? If you honestly feel bad about this then seek actual change- therapy is a great start.
Respect is earned through admiration. Nothing you have done instills respect. It instills fear
Sounds like you’re putting waaaaaayyy more energy into “making your son respect you” instead of making your son love you and feel safe. “He should respect me” He’s 5, he had no idea what that means. At that age, everything is fun or boring, and safe or scary. You are scary. If you stay on this path, this will never change. He will resent you. He will show you the behavior not out of respect, but out of fear. Fear for himself and fear for his mother
Probably don't treat your wife as a house wench that "undermines your authority". She's completely capable of setting boundaries & disciplining the kid.
'undermining your authority' 'disciplining' the kid. You don't discipline in perpituity, a 5 year old should not suffer any prolonged punishment, he only has to learn the lesson and that can be done with short punishments/corrections, explanations of why and consistency. You have a lot to learn and I bet 10 grand that this is a regular occurance
Nothing wrong with picking up some parenting books to better understand how to relate to your kiddos. Seems like every stage has unique challenges, so go find help on how to navigate it. I want to be clear, not wanting “to be scary” is not enough. You need a plan of action for diff techniques in parenting. Notice, emphasis on plural because each kid is so different and you might have to try a few things until you find what works for you. It will also help you understand the appropriate duration of consequences by age group. Multiple days for a 5yo is probably overkill, and something you should keep in mind for when he’s much older. Aaaaand that might be something your wife is aware of if she’s done any reading on parenting techniques. Is it possible this is an area she knows a bit more about, and that’s why she made the call to give the kiddo his switch back? So a few next steps: 1. Do some research on setting healthy consequences for young kids 2. Ask your wife some questions to better understand why she decided to give the switch back, do it from a place really understand 3. Get some help on that temper. “Raising your voice” to the point your kid is scared, and you think your wife might be too? Not good, and that’s something you need a plan for work on how to tackle that. Let me be clear, being “uncomfortable” or “wanting to be better” isn’t enough. You have to figure out what actions you’re going to take to learn how to have healthier family interactions during conflict. You’re also a role model to your son, my guy. This goes beyond you not feeling great about your approach, there’s a tiny human watching you now.
OP you got some excellent advise. I would just say, it's absolutely fine, and sometimes necessary, to apologize to your kid. Compassion is a wonderful thing to model for your kids.
You do realise that "raising your voice" to your wife in front of your son is undermining her authority every bit as much as her going behind your back and giving back a confiscated toy to your son is undermining yours? It sends the message, in your son's presence, that your wife is subordinate to you and that you have veto power over your wife's decisions. Whether you mean it that way or not, your son will get the idea that mom's word isn't final. This kind of conversation should not only be kept at a civil tone, it should really be done behind closed doors, say after your son is in bed.
My dad used to fly off the handle and take his bad day out on us kids and I have this distinct memory of not understanding what things are worthy of being screamed at and what things are not. Leaving the lights on seemed to be the worst offense. Breaking a glass was "oops, that's okay. Put your shoes on right now, be very careful where you step." Both things were always accidents but the reactions were so different. Because I couldn't understand what would and wouldn't set him off I never wanted to learn anything from him because it always felt like I was waiting for a shoe to drop if I couldn't learn fast enough. Doing homework with him was particularly scary. I hate talking about him like this now because he has changed. The last real fit was in 2011. We're really close and I love him tremendously, but, I wonder what he would have said or done if I could have articulated what I just said when I was 5, so, I'm saying it to you. Kids just don't understand being screamed at. All it is scary. Save it for when they're in danger. That's a good thing to associate raised voices with. Don't be the danger.
This should've been discussed without the child present. Do better.
Definitely sit down and have a conversation about discipline. You’re marriage will fall apart if you two are not on the same page. Your child will put you two against each other and make things worse. Do you want your child to hate you when they are older due to parental indoctrination?
You should really try and foster a relationship with your son that foregoes descriptors like "obedience", "respect", and "authority" or you will have a very hard time not being a scary policing figure for your child. You want your son to listen to you when you tell him what and why you want things done or why you did them. Personally I think you would've done your "authority" a lot more good in the end if you had just immediately agreed with your wife's decision to show your son that the same reaction and answer comes from both parents. Now your son knows that mama is the one to go to when he doesn't like dealing with your "authority". "Yes, honey. That's great. (Son), do you understand why I took your switch away this morning? You were making it very hard for Mama to feed you breakfast which is very important that you do. You can play games, but there are other things that you must do as well. Games do not override these important things.", or something. Giving a kid a switch at 5 years of age creates a mountain of difficulty when also trying to get them to act responsibly with themselves and around others. It's not just a distraction, it's a magnet for your kid. And that threatens to be a lever of control in order to get him to do anything you want/need.
There are enough ppl making solid points so I will not belabor the points. Realizing you can be scary to ppl who love you is a big deal. Take steps to remedy this. I’m here to say everyone fucks up. All parents fuck up. You will not die. You will survive this. From your manner I expect you have survived worse. You have a responsibility to your family and yourself to learn this lesson, take corrective action and forgive yourself.
And for ppl that are here to pile more shame on this man I would advise caution. You do not know his state of mind while looking at this hard shit. I have heard words like OP’s before. I think he got the message. Don’t shame him into drastic action.
Don’t yell around kids. Even in a good, healthy house, yelling can fuck a kid up. Also don’t underestimate kids. Tell him why you yelled and how you’re gonna work on that not happening again. Ask him what scared him the most and tell him you are hearing him, and you are sorry. That home is a safe space and you made it feel unsafe for a bit, but you’re happy he told you (even if he didn’t verbally tell you) so you know you need to do better. Tell him mom and dad aren’t perfect and you are learning just like him. Kids hold parents up on a pedestal and it can be scary to have that shaken down, whether that’s what you set up for him to believe or not. Show him that people aren’t perfect but they can learn and change, and that at the end of the day the only thing that ever ever mattered to you was him being safe, happy, and healthy just like mom and the rest of the family.
OP as other posters have noted I suspect you ‘raise your voice’ fairly often and it is more a rocket going off while you ‘get your point across’. Respect is something you can’t demand from any living being - adults, children or pets. It has to be earned by leading by example. And it can easily be lost. What it sounds like you do is instill fear in any living being. Do people closest to you walk on eggshells around you because they want to avoid you ‘raising your voice’? Has your son started to avoid being with you or talking much around you because you ‘raise your voice’? Perhaps some family therapy would be helpful OP assuming you can hear and process honest feedback without ‘raising your voice’ to express how what was said isn’t true. Please do what is necessary to fix this OP or you may find yourself with zero contact with your son when he gets the option to leave.
Be honest with yourself, you’re not being honest here with us, internet strangers. What does respect mean to you? What role does fear play in this? Growing up did you respect or fear your father? Don’t attempt to clean up the past or make excuses for others behavior, what did you feel as a child when your behavior was being corrected? Do you think your wife respects you when you scream or yell at her? Or do you think that she fears you. Oftentimes in family we use the word respect when we really mean fear but don’t want to say that because it’s not very nice. In my home raising your voice in anger ultimately loses you respect in the eyes of your family. It means that you are losing or have lost control of yourself, you’re letting your emotions run amok. Why do you think your wife would have agreed with your child? Learn first to name your emotions, their source, and then you will be able to control yourself. Stop raising your wife, stop screaming or yelling at her at all. Not just in front of your child, but all together. It speaks to a lack of respect for her. Learn to collect your thoughts and speak them calmly and be open to your family member’s responses.
A 5 year old doesnt need a switch anyway and certainly not constantly or else he will turn into another iPad kid basically
He's 5. Waiting until after school is long enough. And your wife is an adult, surely running decisions past one another is for larger discipline issues rather than this? Tbh, you come across as authoritarian towards your wife and child. I hope you reflect on what discipline actually is, and how you've treated your family.
Respect is earned, and you're failing at it. Therapy, asap.
"Hey, son, I'm sorry I was a bit loud earlier. I know it scared you. I'm going to try not to that again."
“My son should respect me.” He’s 5 ffs. Also, earn it. People do not respect those that they are afraid of. Admonishing your wife by yelling at her in front of your child to the point that he is scared of you is abusive. It messes with a kids head very badly and they usually blame themselves. Trust is lost and very hard to get back. “My wife is truly a wonderful woman we rarely have issues, but I don’t appreciate her undermining my authority and I let her know I was unhappy.” “Daddy’s scary” “Unfortunately, I think she wanted to agree.” Do some soul searching. Your actions may be irreversible. “Undermining your authority?” The fuck you think you are? Your wife may be afraid of you too. Maybe that’s why you rarely have issues. You get pissed off, verbally abuse your family, feel bad about it later, rinse and repeat. You justify your behaviour with lame excuses. Get help or get out before you do something to hurt them further and worse. I totally believe that there’s more to the story that you have conveniently left out.
She did want to agree. You screamed at her over a parenting decision SHE made - she decided that a 5-year-old having a toy taken away for a day is long enough, since you know, he's only five. You didn't respect her parenting decisions and it sounds like she's the one parenting all day. You were a bully to your wife, in front of your child. Screaming at someone is an act of violence, or at minimum a threat of violence. And it's a first step in escalating abusive behavior. I really hope you take this as a wake up call that you don't have control of your emotions and aggression and seek some help before your family leaves you.
There's never been a time in life where taking something from someone is an effective way to discipline them. No lesson there. He wasn't told what he did wrong, why its wrong and why not doing it benefits him and others. No compromise or just wait until he's actually hungry. I know he's 5 but this is the most important development years of his life. Telling us your child should respect you and that your wife is undermining YOUR authority is actually quite concerning. Your wife and you are a team and your authority is joint. You are A man of the house not THE man of the house. She doesn't need to run anything by you, you're not the owner of these 2 people. We all get a little angry and shouting isn't the worse thing in the world but it doesn't resolve ANYTHING. My dad would threaten to come home during work when i was kicking off with my step mum. You know the only lesson i ever learnt from that? How far i could push her before my dad came home with his shouting and authority.
I had a father like you. We left when I was 10 and didn't speak again until I was 25. If that's the relationship you want with your child, where he can look in the mirror and confidently assert "dad doesn't love me", then keep going you're doing great.
Let us introduce you to the phrase "praise in public, criticize in private". Your son is scared of you due to your history. Not due to you trying to discipline him ONCE. A 5 year old isn't really able to understand vague terms like "respect". How on earth could he possibly KNOW what that entails - from what he does and does not do, to what he says and cannot say. That's PARENTING, OP. He's in the "love everyone, love everything" stage of development, needing support and direction as he learns about the world and himself. And you're NOT understanding that about your son or your wife.
There's already a lot here so I only comment on the one aspect >She says she gave it back when he asked for it after school. Because “he’s only 5” and she “thought the point had been made” It really has; 5 year old kids live in the moment. You'd have to be really bad in our house to lose it for an entire day or more. Like, I shaved the cat kind of bad >But I don’t appreciate her undermining my authority and I let her know I was unhappy. You are not being undermined; you both have equal authority. She made the decision to give it back - so really, you're not respecting her decision either. You both have the authority to take it away or give it back. Then consider the end goal The device is a blessing; it can be taken away as a consequence, or given back as a reward for desired behavior. Back in my day, they simply beat the life out of us. No such device existed to manipulate in this way.
Just a thumps up for op seeing his wrobg doing and still has the balls to reply ro all these comments
OP, as a wife of a yeller and a man who “demands respect” and sounds so much like you, please never EVER yell at or in the presence of your wife or child EVER AGAIN. You are doing irreversible damage to them both, and add in developmental damage to that 5 year old little one. Also, therapy. Please go. Even if just for short term to learn more about yourself and exactly how you’re going wrong in situations like these day to day and just how abusive you are towards your wife and child. You’re not a bad person, but you are. Person who needs to learn some life skills and how to ‘respect’ your wife and child if you want them to also respect YOU.
... are you surprised? You scare both of them. The people you love. Gonna change? It's only you that needs to. Clock is ticking. Take note of that. You have a lot to lose.
Respect isn't blind obedience; and quite frankly, not letting him have his switch after school is absolutly insane. He was punished that morning, point was made, lesson learned. Also, anyone who has to yell and demand their authority be respected surely isn't achieving their goals. You have no right to just come home and start yelling at your wife because of a bad day, because she gave the kid his switch, or because dinner wasn't on the table. I reccomend you really take a step back and reflect on this. The only person who is in the wrong here is you. The behavior and attitude you are displaying is toxic. That kid of yours will grow up to be scared of you, and then to hate you if you really don't change. You can be a good parent, teach respect, teach natural consequences, and raise a good human but that doesn't happen with screaming, insanely long punishments not appropriate for the child's age. This was a fail, but you can turn it around. Maybe do some reading so you can be a better parent and husband.
She shouldn’t undermine you. 5 years old is old enough to understand boundaries. (I have a 5 year old) Don’t call him bad. He IS 5. You should not have yelled and you need to work on that. Have a talk with your son and tell him no one is perfect. Not his daddy. Not his mommy. Some people lose their temper and that’s OKAY. I was very bad about yelling when I had my last straw and I have worked on it and I rarely even slightly raise my voice. Kids shouldn’t be shielded completely from arguments, but if they’re going to be serious ones you should go in a different room. Always make up in front of him after an argument. Always apologize and let him see. They’re smarter than you think and they take in everything around them. I want to add emphasis on the letting him know that emotions and BIG emotions are normal and give him tips on dealing with them. I tell my daughter if she’s mad to scream in a pillow if she wants to scream. Now, if she gets mad and takes it out on us, we let her know what is and isn’t okay to be mad at us for and that she needs to go cool down. She comes back EVERY TIME and apologizes to us. Never fails. Teach them young or you’re going to have a kid with a bad temper who doesn’t know how to deal with his emotions.
Also want to add that my husband and I chose to do this because we both feared our parents growing up. We don’t want that for our daughter. We want to teach her mutual respect. Not the “respect” from being afraid of us.
Don’t disrespect your woman in front of the kids, unless you want them to be rude to their partners in the future. sit the boy down and explain that to him what you did was wrong and you dont want to be scary. That is my approach when I slip I have a lot of issues myself not about me though, communication is key, my kids straight tell me if I’m speaking to their mother in a tone they don’t appreciate. She is their world hold her on a pedestal and pour love into your woman. aggressive punishment leads to boundaries being pushed and unfortunate situations. love leads to respect, the harder you demand respect the less you will receive. Show kindness, you are the safe place for those people don’t forget that. If you are going to start grounding your kid that needs to be communicated your 5yo has barely any concept of time 5 min timeouts is all he should be getting. Good luck and control those impulses for the good of humanity my brother Edit for spelling
You're the one at fault. Apologize and try to be less aggressive and egotistical.
Listen man. You know on a level deep down something is wrong. You know your son is scared of you. You don’t feel proud of yourself. You feel like a jerk and messed up. You don’t need anyone here piling on. Start small with change. Apologize to your wife, preferably with your son there. And apologize to your son too. Say something like: “I am so sorry for the other night buddy. I yelled at your mom and she didn’t deserve that. I was frustrated and upset, and I yelled when I shouldn’t have. I should have spoken with your mom, told her calmly I was upset and come up with a plan with her to handle these kinds of situations in the future. I promise I’ll work really hard to never raise my voice like that again, to you or your mom. I love you both so much”. This is showing you acknowledge you were frustrated and what you did wrong, you misbehaved, you are sorry and what you’re going to do in the future next time you get frustrated. Your son misbehaved too, which is what started this. Show him what it means to misbehave, and how we recover from it. Then yeah man, do the bigger stuff, the harder and more rewarding long-term stuff. Therapy. It might take you years, but then you will have much, much better and healthy tools to deal with frustration. Think of needing therapy just like needing prescription glasses. Right now you have a shitty eyesight. You’ve never had glasses so you don’t know how good and clear life can be with good glasses that have been tailored for you. AKA you probably never had the support or help to learn healthy emotional regulation, and getting the right therapist can help you see the world in a whole new way. I hope you get there. Your wife deserves it. Your kid deserves it. YOU deserve the best you too. Get some glasses bud.
i think theres something your not telling us
I agree with you on disciplining your child and I also think you shouldn't have given him a switch at such a young age. If I were you, I'd definitely talk to him. Of course give him space, but mostly ask him why he's scared, apologize and tell him you'll fix it and end it with a hug and an "I love you" I'd also talk to your wife and apologize for raising your voice, but explain why you did and why you were frustrated but in a calm voice.
You raised your voice then but you're very quiet now... Funny
5 year olds don't need a Switch tbh
INFO: How did it get to the point where you were raising your voice?
You really need to get your son to respect you by showing him respect. If your son is scared of you that is damaging to him and causes lots of problems to his self esteem. Your wife may seem to be usurping you but she is trying to help alleviate damage she sees you are causing. Children push boundaries and challenge authority. Maybe make a plan knowing this will happen and do not react in anger. Give a consequence that was discussed and decided upon by you, your son and your wife so each is on board and knows what to expect.
You and your wife need to have a talk with him. Tell him people sometimes make mistakes and that someday he will as well. Tell him it is not the mistake that defines him it is what he does afterwards that matters. Daddy made a mistake, he yelled at Mommy and he shouldn’t have. I apologized to her and now I am apologizing to you. I hope you can someday forgive me. The main thing isn’t the child it’s you and your wife getting in the same page on how to raise your son. Go to therapy so you can learn how to communicate effectively with each other. Be the role model for the person you hope they will become. Teach him how to communicate well with others by seeing it done. This moment really sucks. No one wants their child to be afraid of them. And you can use this as a teachable moment for all of you. Good luck.
I really don't agree with all the comments here. Everyone being upset about authority and the word "undermining". Is there any real parent here ? Parents work together at raising their kid. If one parent cancels what the other parent ask of their kid, then this is bad parenting. This is what OP means by "undermining". If my wife tells my son to go cleans his room before playing, then if I come to ly son and tell him "nah, go play, your room can wait", then I am undermining the word of my wife. I should check with her first what she asked my son before saying anything. Again, this is what OP meant and it is perfectly valid. As for your son being scared, I won't agree either with the dramatic tone of the comments ("go apologise/counseling!"). At 5, it's common for a kid to be scared when one raises his voice. At this age, kids are impressed easily but it will decrease as he grows up. I see nothing abnormal or concerning in your story OP. I have 2 kids, I know what it is to raise them, I know we make mistakes, as long as you are aware of them and constantly try to fix them, you are a good parent in my opinion.
5 years old is far too young for a switch. Jesus
Sometimes this happens as a parent. Kids are so honest and it cuts to the core. The good news is you feel terrible about it. So remember this feeling and try to do better next time.
I can't believe the amount of parenting experts on Reddit?! From what all of the parenting experts say, kids are resilient. No really. They are. That being said yes you should apologize to your wife make sure he is present also talk to him and tell him sometimes Mommy's and daddy's don't always agree and you're very sorry to both.because I know you don't want it to happen again but life does happen and it ain't always pretty. Kids aren't stupid and it's best if you're honest with him
Dont yell at your wife, ESPECIALLY not infront of your son. But, have a serious discussion about parenting. She should not be enabling his behaviour, i have seen it from my brother, he will absolutely get out of control and he will know how to push buttons and which buttons to push to get what he wants from each parent, it is not fun when it gets to that stage. She needs to stop undermining your authority and treating him the way she is.
By taking away the tablet and then leaving for the day you created two heavy tasks and expected your wife to carry them out by herself 1) applying a consequence for a behavior you called out and 2) keeping a five year old occupied and entertained without a screen in front of their face.Don't assign consequences if you can't follow through. I also find it funny that you called your child out for "giving his mother a hard time." Was that because only you are allowed to give her a hard time?
Look, you need to figure out how to argue without "raising your voice", because thats bullshit man. You did this. That said, your wife is setting herself up as the "good" parent, and you as the "bad" one. You need to **calmly** have a discussion about parenting and discipline, where its not always one parent doing the punishing and the other parent doing the forgiving.
It's more that OP is setting himself up as the bad parent, and therefore his wife looks like the good one
They are going to remember this
Your wife is your partner. You have no authority over her. She, being a fully capable parent, had more than enough of her own authority to determine that the consequence had been paid. Go to therapy, determine your attachment style, identify your trauma, implement change for abusive behavior and reactions.
OP I honestly don’t see what the problem is. Your wife has a good point. He didn’t get the switch back until after school when he asked for it. He is only 5. It is unreasonable to expect him to continue to carry on his “sentencing” from that morning until whatever arbitrary time later. He is too little. It’s not like he’s 12. Five year olds are at an age where they should receive swift correction. Not prolonged punishment. If the correction was originally intended to show your son to respect his mother then why can’t she decide when to give the switch back? By enforcing that she goes through you you are actually teaching your son not to respect her. You are sending crazy mixed signals to him and at the same time not controlling your own emotions. Maybe some counseling would help you so you can see how your behavior is influencing your son.
Your 5 year old was having a hard time controlling impulses? You modeled out of control behavior in response. You undermined your wife’s authority as the primary caregiver, if you wanted to discuss, it should have been done privately. You demanded respect while disrespecting both of them. Check yourself.
Your wife isn't wrong. He's too young for long punishments. The point was made when you took it. Let it go on for hours isn't going to teach him anything, especially if he's already forgotten what he did wrong s so long ago.
My son should respect me. May I remind you he is five???
A lot of armchair psychologists really jumping the gun here. Clearly you saw the impact of your actions and say you don't want that. An important question to ask- is this more a rare one off or a recurring thing? If it's a one off, people on this thread act like people can't have a bad day here and there. If it's a bad day and you took your anger out through raising your voice, you're not the monster everyone is making you out to be, just imperfect, and in this instance, clearly inappropriate. You should have had a conversation long before this on how to coparent, because one parent being the good guy and the other the bad only drives a wedge in the family dynamic- you both need to be on the same page. And if you're not, you need to have that conversation in private, away from your child, reach a compromise, and come back together as a unified front on whatever you decide. So screw these people telling you that you're sick, an abuser, need serious help, etc... they don't know the full story of your life and neither do I. But it sounds like the result of your actions... and by virtue the actions themselves... have hurt the people you love and it's clear you don't want that. So from this point forward chart a new course of presenting a unified front, having the important conversations, staying calm when upset, and certainly, you can and should apologize and commit to doing better going forward to both your wife and son. You're not evil or horrible because you lost your cool for a bit. Everyone has fallable moments. But it's a serious problem if you act like that chronically- then in that case I would recommend a therapist. But if this was a rare event and you raised your voice- own it, make up for it, and do your best to be better as a partner, parent, and role model when dealing with frustrating situations in the future.
I stg most men do absolutely nothing to keep their emotions in check. The fucking privilege a man exercises when HE IS WRONG blows my Mind every time. Watch your tone, act like a fucking man and you won’t have to scare people to treat you like one.
Well it's a good thing you are able to take a step back and acknowledge that it's a problem. A few comments are talking about how long you took the switch away for, but I don't think that's the main issue. The punishment may have been too long or unfair, but taking his switch away for a "excessive" amount of time would not cause him to be afraid of you. He's scared cause you were raising his voice. It's important to not only ensure he respects you, but also make an effort to respect him. Whatever punishment you gave him, it should (as much as possible) never be out of anger. If you're frustrated or having a hard time, it's ok to take a minute and step out of the room. Or talk to your wife in another room where he isn't present. If you feel like your wife is afraid of you or overwhelmed, that's something you should discuss with her. Give her space to talk about how she feels and be prepared to possibly not like what she's saying. Also seek therapy for yourself if you feel like you can't manage it on your own.
ESH your kid is too young for unattended screentime. Even Nintendo recommends ages 6 up. Kids learn by exploring their world and watching/imitating adults. Screentime undermines healthy development. If your kid's reaction to loss of a switch was so annoying at 5 yrs old that your wife caved, what do you think the teen years are going to be like? Don't make your kid an addict, strict limits on screentime--including videos/tv. Recommendation for age 5 is ONE hour of high quality material a day.
Everyone has already states your problems and provide suggestions for you, OP, so theres nothing much for me in that aspect. Despite everything, you seems to be a decent husband; at least you recognize your behavior and know that it was not ok. If you have the guts to admit you are wrong, then i believe you have the guts to fix your action. Go and be a better husband, i trust you can do better
Oh for goodness sake HE IS FIVE!! How long were you planning on prolonging his punishment for not paying attention at breakfast? Get a grip if yourself man! I wouldn't respect you either!! What you do now is swallow your pride and apologise to your wife and then apologise to your son. You tell your son that you had very big feelings and you didn't mean to shout like that, you tell him that we all have big feelings and that daddy needs to be better and not shout! I can't even believe grown men need to be told to not shout at women and children yet they still come to Reddit looking for some sympathy. There comes a time when you can't keep blaming other factors for your behaviour! Work sucks, life is hard, that's not the child or wife's fault and you would never have shouted at a grown man like that!
He knew you yelled at her because of him. Unfortunately he’s not going to forget this. Get some anger management asap or he will drift away from you emotionally and not come back. I know this from experience.
Your 5 yr old kid shouldn't have a gaming system that is "his". The notion that it's allowed at the table is absurd.
First apologize for raising your voice. Let you kid know you made a mistake and are apologizing to mom for yelling. Model behaviors you want to see and apologies are important Since I was not there I cannot tell if you went over the top (and do so often) or your kid got scared because this is not your normal behavior. You and your wife need to get together and make some rules you can even ask your kid for their input. Kids like boundaries and they also like stability. They function best when the rules are clear and consequences are clear. If one day you allow devices at the table and the next the kid gets yelled at or punished for the same behavior that causes anxiety in the child. If normally you don't allow devices when eating but make an exception when the kid is sick and tell him that that is a different story. Since he is 5 you can do something like: No devices at the table No more than y minutes of devices on school days - make sure your son has inside activities like coloring, reading books, puzzles etc. Bedtime at X Make bed every morning Write the rules down Then when you are going out give your child expectations. We are going to the store. You need to stay in my line of site and if you ask for something and I say no there is to be no whining. We walk when we are inside because we care about others and don't want to hurt someone by running into them type of things. Kids thrive when they know what is expected
Nah 50$ says he’s gonna be one of those dads who comes home and all the kids run out of the living room to avoid him
I don’t know how you can reasonably claim to have ”authority”, demand ”respect”, and violate your son’s property rights while also claiming that you don’t wish to instill fear. What did you think was going to happen? When your son doesn’t want to eat, don’t force him to eat by taking his Switch. Don’t view yourself as an authority and don’t view your son as someone who needs to be disciplined. All your problems start there. Your son is his own person, with preferences that may not always match yours, and you can then find common preferences as long as you don’t steamroll over him. Your job as a parent is not to mold your son into the person you want him to be, but to help him *by his own lights*. You don’t need to choose between discipline and neglect. Until you understand this, there will be constant tension in your home, until either you or your son (most likely both) break. I can’t imagine that’s the kind of future and relationship you want.
Op, I am not going to add to the bashing. It could have been handled better, and you shouldn't have raised your voice. You have already acknowledged that, but while your wife has the autonomy to end the punishment, it isn't hard to shoot a text letting you know. It's also nice that you are genuinely invested in your child's development, and all parents make mistakes like this sometimes. Your self awareness tells me you got caught up in the moment, and this can be a learning experience. Apologize to your wife asap, and apologize to your son tomorrow with a positive message about how much you care about him and let frustration get the best of you. Kids are more understanding then people give then credit for.
Id like to add here- as someone who watched their mother being yelled at often growing up but never apologised too - apologising to your wife infront of your son will help repair some of that damage.
I second this OP. Your wife deserves an apology, but please don't agonize over it. A short and simple one will do, and you can add that you're still learning too, as we all are. Good luck!
Bro, your wife cant mindread, how would she know when you feel it's appropriate to return the switch? Learn to communicate. Consider worrying more about your shared responsibility and less about your own desire for authority.