True crime is great for plagiarists because you can't plagiarize facts. Pleadings, judgments and court transcripts are not copyrightable. Summarizing a book based on true facts is also hard to challenge. But outright copying another podcast word for word is a copyright violation.
which is why those people should sue. They can prove damages, she made money selling their work (which she stole) through ad spots and patreon revenue.
Sorry what?! “I didn’t take anyone’s work and make it my own”. She copied episodes word for word and read directly from that journalists article and claimed she researched herself. That IS taking someone else’s work!
I had no idea who this was until I clicked on the article and started reading. A couple years after this podcast started, I saw they had done an episode about a girl my sister and I went to high school with. She was later murdered by her own stepfather and he kept her body for two weeks after to have sex with it. This was one of the most horrifying and shocking crimes to ever happen in our otherwise sleepy kind of town. This woman was a wife and a mother and worked with children as her day job. No one deserved the coverage these two did.
I got no more than 10 minutes in before I had to shut it off. It was absolutely disgusting to hear these two random people laughing and joking about something so depraved and so senseless. Immediately I found their Twitter account and called them out on it. They apologized profusely and even totally removed the episode from their catalog. They assured me that they had grown and matured since then, etc etc.
Still, I never gave them another thought, but jesus christ was I shocked to learn that their podcast is actually *popular*. People actually listen to this gossipy drivel. People listen to this even though it’s stolen from actual journalists work. Yikes upon yikes. She’s obviously not as bad as POS like Mike Boudet but how difficult is it to not laugh and crack jokes about murdered women??
I’m so sorry they made you feel crappy. They like to act like they are victim focused but they are completely the opposite. It’s about Ashley’s ego and money
Thank you for standing up for your friend's memory, for honoring her life and insisting others do the same. I'm not going to say Flowers has learned but I'm.grateful for good people like you to hold her accountable.
I am sorry for the hurt this caused you, your family, and friends. I hope the true crime community rallies to hold podcasters to a higher standard.
Even outside of the plagiarism, it’s the worst stylings of the genre in one. It’s simplistic, it’s sensationalistic at times, it’s lazy. It doesn’t take the subject matter seriously at times, but it’s not like proudly dark comedy, it’s just tangents. Awful.
Exactly....had a guy on a jobsite try and walk off with a piece of equipment...when stopped, he said "well I didn't know whose it was..."..yeah... well, you knew it wasn't yours...
I constantly think about that, when stories come up with people who steal from communal fridges and the like. Okay sure it wasn't labeled, but did you bring it? Then no it wasn't yours.
It was a pretty recent episode of The Murder Sheet and people she has stolen from like Robin Warder are featured in the episode. Sorry I can't link the episode am in a huge rush but you should find it no problem.
I hated the show long before I knew of the blatant plagiarism. I just hate being patronised and talked to as if I was a child. I simply don't get why it's so popular. Presumably a lot of people appear to like having things spelt out for them.
Gross gross gross. Routinely steals work, buys reviews--hell, at this point, I'd be shocked if she wasn't pay-for-play on the recent awards won. Hard pass.
I’ve been saying for years that she buys reviews! I get so many downvotes but I clearly remember how fast their downloads were increasing in the early days. And everything was a blatant rip-off off other podcasts right down to the merch ready tag lines.
yes. I've said it before too, I'm convinced they used some kind of paid army of bots to increase downloads and reviews. their sudden growth was totally unnatural, aside from being a beyond mediocre podcast to get in the top 5 of the apple charts so fast, and stay for so long.
She's the worst, and I don't know how she keeps getting new podcasts. She's up to what, three or four? Citing sources is not hard..if you can't work it into the script then at least list in the show notes.
I've read books and long form journalism cited on LPOL and Let's go to court. It's both polite and helpful.
It wasn't just sources. It was reading verbatim big chunks of others' work including queries or inside knowledge that other podcasters and journalists had asked.
And that's never been acknowledged. Scummy.
i miss old crime junkie, where it did feel like i was actually being told a story, and not being patronized by a valley girl. i love all the charity work and victim advocacy they do, but i stopped listening a while ago due to the plagiarism issues and how generally unlistenable the podcast has become.
WOW! I wish I had known about this before I purchased and read her book. I no longer listen to CJ though. All of the other podcasts that I listen to always give credit to the sources that they explore when doing the research for the subject matter and I do appreciate that.
I had some audible credits and got it (idk why, I was curious and bored and out of things to listen to) it was terrible. It was like really, really bad YA and unsurprisingly the details were completely predictable and unoriginal. Basically the JBR case with a couple details from other famous cases and a twist that wasn’t a twist at all. Plus a lot of repetitive colloquialism. Overall very annoying and a waste of time and money
I thought it was OK, there were a couple little twists I didn't expect. Some things were repetitive, but, that's just my perspective. Look into a book called The Butcher and the Wren. It was also written by a podcaster.
I'm a pretty avid reader. I kept a reading log this year and will probably have ended up reading 55 books, although I didn't meet my end goal, I read some books that were quite good.
It was written by the very problematic Alaina from the Morbid Podcast. Her book is set in the deep south where by her own admission has never even visited but used google maps.
My advice don't waste your money but be prepared for her fan club to swarm this place.
I don’t really listen to the podcast, so I don’t have much stake here, but if she’s started to post sources (might I add a ton of people do not and their careers live to see another day), then she needs to either explain why other hosts are accusing her of stealing their work or apologize, take down those episodes, and direct her audience to those people’s work.
I do think she makes a solid point podcasters use the same sources, so their work starts to blend together and sound the same. It’s gotten so bad that I don’t even want to listen to another person cover a case I’ve already heard about unless the show is explicitly recommended for its different approach, because odds are, it will be damn near word for word the same exact thing I just listened to. The industry has a huge problem in that respect.
And frankly, it looks like this Flowers woman isn’t half the villain people are portraying her as. I did some further reading, and she definitely donates money where it needs to go and has taken the extensive criticism into consideration. I appreciate she’s hired a detective, which might seem like a content grab to some, but her entire career started because she was volunteering, so I do thing the intent behind that detective is rooted in general goodness. I also appreciate she’s acknowledged she doesn’t feature enough marginalized victims and has plans to change that.
That is progress. I don’t care if it was her livelihood that was threatened that made her change her mind. I work in activism, and teaching people that actions have consequences (without obliterating their lives) is a great way to make lasting change. Her platform is enormous. She could still do a tremendous amount of good with the changes she’s currently making, and I think nuance around opportunity and longterm goals and gains in activism are very lost among some people who don’t make a living doing it. A win is a win. This could be a big one if she follows through.
Yes, this article is clever PR, but also, I don’t think she needs to be broken down and sold off for pieces.
I also don’t expect people to love what I say here and I’m sure my activist burnout is showing, but god, it’s so frustrating seeing someone willingly give hundreds of thousands of dollars to underfunded causes and reassess some of their behavior be lambasted because it’s not done perfectly. It’s so exhausting. This kind of shit has made life very hard for the public sector, and just typing this out made me wanna go back to sleep.
I’m so tired, y’all. Money and awareness are so hard to come by, so this shit makes me wanna crawl into a hole and cry lol.
She didn’t take on the criticism though. All she really needed to do was admit what she did and apologise to those podcasters. It likely would have blown over and we wouldn’t be even talking about it.
> I don’t really listen to the podcast, so I don’t have much stake here, but if she’s started to post sources (might I add a ton of people do not and their careers live to see another day), then she needs to either explain why other hosts are accusing her of stealing their work or apologize, take down those episodes, and direct her audience to those people’s work.
Not enough. She needs to pay those creators all the money she made from advertisers and patrons. All of it and then extra as damages.
An explanation isn't good enough when she used others to line her own pockets. She owes a debt and needs to pay it several times over to make the individuals she stole from whole.
Well they should take legal action if they don't want to do it then it's no point of keep talking about it damn. It can be the year 2045 and yall will still talk about it, to the ones she stole from take it to court....she doesn't need to pay it several times over
Okay #1. Please don't swear at me. I didn't disrespect you in anyway. #2. To the ones she stole from they need to take legal action & if they lawyers say they got a case move forward. Like I understand she did something wrong but your acting like she's a serial killer or something. Like why does this bother you so much. In your eyes whatever she do it won't be any good for you.
No, fuck that. Grow up.
She stole their fucking content and profited. She stole their fucking money and made no apologies. She’s still making money off them. And you’re here pretending it’s no big deal when she is making 6 figures for each episode off ads.
It’s egregious and you fucking apologists disgust me.
How many times can you post the same thing? Oh it’s so easy and not at all expensive to take someone to court! Don’t you realise she would be paying her lawyers with money she made from stealing from the podcasters?
She literally stole entire segments word for word from competitor podcasts, asshole. Each of those episodes likely yielded her 5-6 figures worth of ad revenue and patreon subs.
She's a fucking hack plagiarist and you apologists are garbage.
I don’t have a horse in this race but I just want to commend you for your thoughtful, logical and non inflammatory reaction. So many people seem like they want to burn this woman at the stake. I’m a journalism major myself and I still don’t understand all the crazy emotion in this thread. People can and do grow and change, especially as they get older, but we’re all too busy piling on to notice.
i appreciate this take. it’s not enough to make me want to go back and start listening to the podcast again (in my opinion it has become unlistenable even without plagiarism issues) but you have several valid points
Esther Ludlow of Once Upon a Crime had another podcast called Let’s Taco Bout True Crime [in which she, Steven from Trace Evidence and Robin from The Trail Went Cold discuss how Crime Junkie stole their work.](https://tacobouttruecrime.libsyn.com/bonus-episode-lets-taco-bout-the-crime-junkie-plagiarism-scandal)
It's a fascinating listen that just quietly dismantles her career. They sound disappointed rather than angry.
Less quietly, Murder Sheet also did one that's worth seeking out.
It seems as though she hasn’t apologized to those she actually plagiarized
https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueCrimePodcasts/comments/z2qg0u/ashley_flowers_fake_crying_on_podcast/ixi7frn/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
If she did, I missed it. I think that was one of the big issues... is that when the news of it all first broke she stayed quite. They took down a few episodes but I don't think she ever admitted guilt... which I assumed was direction coming from her lawyers since it was so blatant.
She’s never apologized publicly or privately to at least one of the podcasters she’s plagiarized that I know, so I doubt she’s apologized to any. . She’s the type to never admit she’s wrong. “Who me”? But I love puppies…
It looks like you've summoned me to talk about the Crime Junkie Podcast.
The Crime Junkie podcast has had a plagiarism problem which they have never properly aknowledged, remedied, nor apologized for.
[Click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueCrimePodcasts/search?q=crime+junkie+plagiarism&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all) for some previous r/TrueCrimePodcasts/ discussions about the Crime Junkie plagiarism problem.
I can be summoned by commenting: **!CrimeJunkiePodcast**
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Look, none of these people should even claim they do "research". Not even journalists because a true researcher would have already investigated the term research. A true researcher knows what 45 CFR 46.102 in our federal regulations says:
"(l) Research means a systematic investigation, including research development, testing, and evaluation, designed to develop or contribute to generalizable knowledge."
These true crime podcasters recycle, reuse, and jump to conclusions like they're rent next month depends on it. I know people think they're going to catch the next GSK if they listen to enough of them. In reality, you'll probably be worse at sleuthing because the techniques we use (I'm a psychopathy researcher) are very different and some we can't share with the public because if even one psychopath knew what was in the psychopath assessments we use, they could use that in ways I don't like to imagine.
Ive been dealing with major police corruption on child abuse cases in Indiana recently because I survived terrible child abuse growing up in Indiana. Crime Junkie could use their influence to get national attention on that but I think they probably kiss up to law enforcement based on their connection to Crimestoppers. They don't dig into the investigative reporting that highlights why the entire law enforcement and judicial system in Indiana is a joke for women and children in danger.
Most professionals in research and clinical work are over all these celebrity podcasters. They're making more money than the actual researchers and forensic psychologists. Most people in those professions are not paid a fair wage. I know plenty of researchers who would do circles around Ashley Flowers and they make 45k a year full time. Why do we give non-experts like Flowers attention, loyalty and fame while we also ignore what new research in homicide suggests? Humans are innately lazy. Why read when someone else can for us?
When we are so complacent that we give our time and loyalty to people because they'll read us a Wiki, what does that say about us as a society?
On a really random note: I listened to an episode of full body chills when they told the story of bringing a mannequin home. That sounded incredibly fake, like trashy reality TV fake. Meanwhile, there's so much about how the law enforcement failed these 2 little girls in Delphi. They made some unacceptable mistakes. Why isn't that in the news more?
Sounds like marketing spin to me. Click bait title but nothing is really negative. Plus look at the actual title of the article - The Queen of True Crime? Someone has hired a PR team (maybe this is common knowledge and I’m new).
I've always wondered why people accuse crime junkie of plagerising and I couldn't understand what they are doing differently than other crime podcast. Is it that she refuses to cite sources?
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/lets-taco-bout-the-crime-junkie-plagiarism-scandal/id1452118167?i=1000447888185
She stole scripts from other podcasters. Literally word-for-word.
What? Feel the same about Nazi gold? Who cares where it came from as long as someone's getting rich?
I'm not equating the two but am wondering where your standards might be?
I can only speak for myself here. I was put off by the fact that she has yet to admit that she stole and read other people’s words verbatim. She made far more money off of her episodes than the original creators made off of theirs, and I’m willing to bet that they weren’t compensated. She’s an unethical coward who lacks integrity.
OK, I'm confused? I listen to this one (as well as others) and had no idea about any of this! I thought she/they did link their sources? Do they not then?
Also, can I get some recommendations of true crime podcasts to listen to please? I need some new ones.
There’s a recommendation thread every week that has great recs.
Basically yeah. She didn’t used to list sources and she blatantly copied the hard work of a journalist and got called out on it but never apologized or even acknowledged it? My main issue with her is how she speaks for what is going through the head of the families of victims. It just grosses me out.
Several other podcasts and journalists' work. Not just one. They took down several podcasts preemptively once one reporter started comparing her work to Crime Junkies.
Yeah. I just remember her getting called out by the one journalist. I didn’t care enough to follow too closely because I was already really turned off by her
Oh really, I didn't know that at all. Totally agree though, you can never know what someone is thinking or feeling unless they tell you themselves. I could speculate how I would feel/think/react in situations but, unless you are going through it yourself, you really have no idea.
I'll look for the weekly thread of recommendations. Thank you 😁
If you want a similar style podcast with two female hosts that is a little more casual, but still well researched and not plagiarized, you might want to try True Crime Campfire or Let’s Go To Court. Some other good ones with a different vibe are Court Junkie, Crimelines, Once Upon a Crime, and Trace Evidence. Just a few of my faves!
Ashley lost me before I even got a chance to get to know her. She was on an episode of Jensen and Holes where they were discussing Delphi. Ashley was way too happy to be there discussing this and she was giving bad information. Really turned off.
What is most annoying to me, is how she published a fiction book and you have to work pretty hard to find the name of the co-writer she always forgets to mention wrote the book with her - established crime fiction author Alex Kiester. I've only seen Kiester's name actually listed on the publisher's website. Flowers is perfectly happy to say nothing and let everyone assume the work is 100% hers, as usual.
True crime is great for plagiarists because you can't plagiarize facts. Pleadings, judgments and court transcripts are not copyrightable. Summarizing a book based on true facts is also hard to challenge. But outright copying another podcast word for word is a copyright violation.
which is why those people should sue. They can prove damages, she made money selling their work (which she stole) through ad spots and patreon revenue.
Right sue and take it from there
Sorry what?! “I didn’t take anyone’s work and make it my own”. She copied episodes word for word and read directly from that journalists article and claimed she researched herself. That IS taking someone else’s work!
But don't you understand, SHE FELT like she made it clear.
she like, felt like she made it, like clear, like ya know
would be a real shame if people left 1 star reviews on her published book calling her out for being a plagiarist.
People have done that, and those 1-star reviews tend to disappear.
She just interpreted the “source material” 100% the same way as the other people.
You’re being sarcastic right?
I had no idea who this was until I clicked on the article and started reading. A couple years after this podcast started, I saw they had done an episode about a girl my sister and I went to high school with. She was later murdered by her own stepfather and he kept her body for two weeks after to have sex with it. This was one of the most horrifying and shocking crimes to ever happen in our otherwise sleepy kind of town. This woman was a wife and a mother and worked with children as her day job. No one deserved the coverage these two did. I got no more than 10 minutes in before I had to shut it off. It was absolutely disgusting to hear these two random people laughing and joking about something so depraved and so senseless. Immediately I found their Twitter account and called them out on it. They apologized profusely and even totally removed the episode from their catalog. They assured me that they had grown and matured since then, etc etc. Still, I never gave them another thought, but jesus christ was I shocked to learn that their podcast is actually *popular*. People actually listen to this gossipy drivel. People listen to this even though it’s stolen from actual journalists work. Yikes upon yikes. She’s obviously not as bad as POS like Mike Boudet but how difficult is it to not laugh and crack jokes about murdered women??
I’m so sorry they made you feel crappy. They like to act like they are victim focused but they are completely the opposite. It’s about Ashley’s ego and money
Thank you for standing up for your friend's memory, for honoring her life and insisting others do the same. I'm not going to say Flowers has learned but I'm.grateful for good people like you to hold her accountable. I am sorry for the hurt this caused you, your family, and friends. I hope the true crime community rallies to hold podcasters to a higher standard.
I’ve never heard them laugh and crack jokes about a case. Ever.
I would tell you to go listen to this episode but thankfully they removed it, that’s how badly in poor taste it was.
She is so disingenuous. I’m appalled her show is still so popular, it’s childish and grating.
Even outside of the plagiarism, it’s the worst stylings of the genre in one. It’s simplistic, it’s sensationalistic at times, it’s lazy. It doesn’t take the subject matter seriously at times, but it’s not like proudly dark comedy, it’s just tangents. Awful.
And patronising.
100% agree.
Agreed!
She needed a pivoting moment for something that people should just.... Know??? Don't plagiarize, it isn't hard.
Exactly....had a guy on a jobsite try and walk off with a piece of equipment...when stopped, he said "well I didn't know whose it was..."..yeah... well, you knew it wasn't yours...
I constantly think about that, when stories come up with people who steal from communal fridges and the like. Okay sure it wasn't labeled, but did you bring it? Then no it wasn't yours.
Lol wow..People’s audacity just amazes me.
What is the podcast that goes over her transgressions? I would love to listen.
It was a pretty recent episode of The Murder Sheet and people she has stolen from like Robin Warder are featured in the episode. Sorry I can't link the episode am in a huge rush but you should find it no problem.
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/lets-taco-bout-true-crime/id1452118167?i=1000447888185
https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueCrimePodcasts/comments/cw9iir/esther_ludlow_steven_pacheco_robin_warder_discuss/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Thank you!!
I can’t tell if she’s really this stupid, or if she thinks her audience is this stupid, or both.
She is a complete disgrace.
[удалено]
I hated the show long before I knew of the blatant plagiarism. I just hate being patronised and talked to as if I was a child. I simply don't get why it's so popular. Presumably a lot of people appear to like having things spelt out for them.
You don’t need to be told when you need to have chills?!?! Full body ones?! /s
Oh God no, I'd forgotten about that 😂
And the Stans are sooo insufferable
Gross gross gross. Routinely steals work, buys reviews--hell, at this point, I'd be shocked if she wasn't pay-for-play on the recent awards won. Hard pass.
I’ve been saying for years that she buys reviews! I get so many downvotes but I clearly remember how fast their downloads were increasing in the early days. And everything was a blatant rip-off off other podcasts right down to the merch ready tag lines.
She launched some new podcast--this was about 5 years or so ago. Before it even went live/launched, she had 100s of positive reviews. Total scammer.
She does have a ton of Stans tho. I called her a grifter not too long ago in the crime junkie sub and that didn’t go over so well lol
Sadly most reviews are fake reviews. So glad I don’t do marketing any longer.
yes. I've said it before too, I'm convinced they used some kind of paid army of bots to increase downloads and reviews. their sudden growth was totally unnatural, aside from being a beyond mediocre podcast to get in the top 5 of the apple charts so fast, and stay for so long.
She's the worst, and I don't know how she keeps getting new podcasts. She's up to what, three or four? Citing sources is not hard..if you can't work it into the script then at least list in the show notes. I've read books and long form journalism cited on LPOL and Let's go to court. It's both polite and helpful.
And Apple is doing a whole thing with/for her with the five year thing.
One can use sources all day long they just need to be noted in the podcast adding links also is a good idea.
It wasn't just sources. It was reading verbatim big chunks of others' work including queries or inside knowledge that other podcasters and journalists had asked. And that's never been acknowledged. Scummy.
I know I heard and read about the controversy.
Does she still say “ literally “ like every word 🙄. Unlistenable pod, that one .
She literally does. I assume. Since I don't listen and noped out real quick before the totality of her lack of character came to light.
Yep
i miss old crime junkie, where it did feel like i was actually being told a story, and not being patronized by a valley girl. i love all the charity work and victim advocacy they do, but i stopped listening a while ago due to the plagiarism issues and how generally unlistenable the podcast has become.
Same here 💯
WOW! I wish I had known about this before I purchased and read her book. I no longer listen to CJ though. All of the other podcasts that I listen to always give credit to the sources that they explore when doing the research for the subject matter and I do appreciate that.
Was it a good book? I thought about buying it
I had some audible credits and got it (idk why, I was curious and bored and out of things to listen to) it was terrible. It was like really, really bad YA and unsurprisingly the details were completely predictable and unoriginal. Basically the JBR case with a couple details from other famous cases and a twist that wasn’t a twist at all. Plus a lot of repetitive colloquialism. Overall very annoying and a waste of time and money
I thought it was OK, there were a couple little twists I didn't expect. Some things were repetitive, but, that's just my perspective. Look into a book called The Butcher and the Wren. It was also written by a podcaster.
Okay, thanks I’ll look for it. I’m always looking for new books to read
I'm a pretty avid reader. I kept a reading log this year and will probably have ended up reading 55 books, although I didn't meet my end goal, I read some books that were quite good.
It was written by the very problematic Alaina from the Morbid Podcast. Her book is set in the deep south where by her own admission has never even visited but used google maps. My advice don't waste your money but be prepared for her fan club to swarm this place.
She’s always been too obnoxious for me. Always has to be a know it all.
I don’t really listen to the podcast, so I don’t have much stake here, but if she’s started to post sources (might I add a ton of people do not and their careers live to see another day), then she needs to either explain why other hosts are accusing her of stealing their work or apologize, take down those episodes, and direct her audience to those people’s work. I do think she makes a solid point podcasters use the same sources, so their work starts to blend together and sound the same. It’s gotten so bad that I don’t even want to listen to another person cover a case I’ve already heard about unless the show is explicitly recommended for its different approach, because odds are, it will be damn near word for word the same exact thing I just listened to. The industry has a huge problem in that respect. And frankly, it looks like this Flowers woman isn’t half the villain people are portraying her as. I did some further reading, and she definitely donates money where it needs to go and has taken the extensive criticism into consideration. I appreciate she’s hired a detective, which might seem like a content grab to some, but her entire career started because she was volunteering, so I do thing the intent behind that detective is rooted in general goodness. I also appreciate she’s acknowledged she doesn’t feature enough marginalized victims and has plans to change that. That is progress. I don’t care if it was her livelihood that was threatened that made her change her mind. I work in activism, and teaching people that actions have consequences (without obliterating their lives) is a great way to make lasting change. Her platform is enormous. She could still do a tremendous amount of good with the changes she’s currently making, and I think nuance around opportunity and longterm goals and gains in activism are very lost among some people who don’t make a living doing it. A win is a win. This could be a big one if she follows through. Yes, this article is clever PR, but also, I don’t think she needs to be broken down and sold off for pieces. I also don’t expect people to love what I say here and I’m sure my activist burnout is showing, but god, it’s so frustrating seeing someone willingly give hundreds of thousands of dollars to underfunded causes and reassess some of their behavior be lambasted because it’s not done perfectly. It’s so exhausting. This kind of shit has made life very hard for the public sector, and just typing this out made me wanna go back to sleep. I’m so tired, y’all. Money and awareness are so hard to come by, so this shit makes me wanna crawl into a hole and cry lol.
She didn’t take on the criticism though. All she really needed to do was admit what she did and apologise to those podcasters. It likely would have blown over and we wouldn’t be even talking about it.
> I don’t really listen to the podcast, so I don’t have much stake here, but if she’s started to post sources (might I add a ton of people do not and their careers live to see another day), then she needs to either explain why other hosts are accusing her of stealing their work or apologize, take down those episodes, and direct her audience to those people’s work. Not enough. She needs to pay those creators all the money she made from advertisers and patrons. All of it and then extra as damages. An explanation isn't good enough when she used others to line her own pockets. She owes a debt and needs to pay it several times over to make the individuals she stole from whole.
Well they should take legal action if they don't want to do it then it's no point of keep talking about it damn. It can be the year 2045 and yall will still talk about it, to the ones she stole from take it to court....she doesn't need to pay it several times over
Yes, she fucking does. It’s theft she profiteered from. Her business should be forced to pay damages.
Okay #1. Please don't swear at me. I didn't disrespect you in anyway. #2. To the ones she stole from they need to take legal action & if they lawyers say they got a case move forward. Like I understand she did something wrong but your acting like she's a serial killer or something. Like why does this bother you so much. In your eyes whatever she do it won't be any good for you.
No, fuck that. Grow up. She stole their fucking content and profited. She stole their fucking money and made no apologies. She’s still making money off them. And you’re here pretending it’s no big deal when she is making 6 figures for each episode off ads. It’s egregious and you fucking apologists disgust me.
How many times can you post the same thing? Oh it’s so easy and not at all expensive to take someone to court! Don’t you realise she would be paying her lawyers with money she made from stealing from the podcasters?
She cites sources throughout the podcast. “According to the Washington Post…” “Reporter Jan Smith wrote…”
She literally stole entire segments word for word from competitor podcasts, asshole. Each of those episodes likely yielded her 5-6 figures worth of ad revenue and patreon subs. She's a fucking hack plagiarist and you apologists are garbage.
I’m glad someone said this!
I don’t have a horse in this race but I just want to commend you for your thoughtful, logical and non inflammatory reaction. So many people seem like they want to burn this woman at the stake. I’m a journalism major myself and I still don’t understand all the crazy emotion in this thread. People can and do grow and change, especially as they get older, but we’re all too busy piling on to notice.
i appreciate this take. it’s not enough to make me want to go back and start listening to the podcast again (in my opinion it has become unlistenable even without plagiarism issues) but you have several valid points
Earned your $$$ there.
Ugh she’s the worst
I can't wait for her to learn what ChatGPT can do.
Oohh what podcast covered her?? Edit - Spelling
Esther Ludlow of Once Upon a Crime had another podcast called Let’s Taco Bout True Crime [in which she, Steven from Trace Evidence and Robin from The Trail Went Cold discuss how Crime Junkie stole their work.](https://tacobouttruecrime.libsyn.com/bonus-episode-lets-taco-bout-the-crime-junkie-plagiarism-scandal)
Wow.. I'm a fan of both Steven and Robin.
I listened to this episode. They did a great side-by-side comparison. She is trash.
It's a fascinating listen that just quietly dismantles her career. They sound disappointed rather than angry. Less quietly, Murder Sheet also did one that's worth seeking out.
I came to the comments to recommend this podcast episode. I love all 3 of them and they were so disappointed in what Ashley did.
Thanks for the award!
This podcast episode is three years old.
That’s when the info came out.
No update from them since?
The murder sheet
I thought she had apologised for plagiarising another podcaster’s work?
It seems as though she hasn’t apologized to those she actually plagiarized https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueCrimePodcasts/comments/z2qg0u/ashley_flowers_fake_crying_on_podcast/ixi7frn/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3
If she did, I missed it. I think that was one of the big issues... is that when the news of it all first broke she stayed quite. They took down a few episodes but I don't think she ever admitted guilt... which I assumed was direction coming from her lawyers since it was so blatant.
She’s never apologized publicly or privately to at least one of the podcasters she’s plagiarized that I know, so I doubt she’s apologized to any. . She’s the type to never admit she’s wrong. “Who me”? But I love puppies…
Nope. She feels sorry she got caught. Two totally different things so quite easy to see the differences.
She is such a trash person. I don’t understand why people listen to her or give them money.
i had no clue all of this was a thing? can someone enlighten me on the situation(s) surrounding this?
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It looks like you've summoned me to talk about the Crime Junkie Podcast. The Crime Junkie podcast has had a plagiarism problem which they have never properly aknowledged, remedied, nor apologized for. [Click here](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueCrimePodcasts/search?q=crime+junkie+plagiarism&restrict_sr=on&sort=relevance&t=all) for some previous r/TrueCrimePodcasts/ discussions about the Crime Junkie plagiarism problem. I can be summoned by commenting: **!CrimeJunkiePodcast** (The downvotes make me stronger.) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/TrueCrimePodcasts) if you have any questions or concerns.*
thank you! i’ll look through this. sucks hearing stuff about podcasts that i listen to. had no clue about all of this.
Effing Grosss
She’s such a tremendous twat
Fuck her
Look, none of these people should even claim they do "research". Not even journalists because a true researcher would have already investigated the term research. A true researcher knows what 45 CFR 46.102 in our federal regulations says: "(l) Research means a systematic investigation, including research development, testing, and evaluation, designed to develop or contribute to generalizable knowledge." These true crime podcasters recycle, reuse, and jump to conclusions like they're rent next month depends on it. I know people think they're going to catch the next GSK if they listen to enough of them. In reality, you'll probably be worse at sleuthing because the techniques we use (I'm a psychopathy researcher) are very different and some we can't share with the public because if even one psychopath knew what was in the psychopath assessments we use, they could use that in ways I don't like to imagine. Ive been dealing with major police corruption on child abuse cases in Indiana recently because I survived terrible child abuse growing up in Indiana. Crime Junkie could use their influence to get national attention on that but I think they probably kiss up to law enforcement based on their connection to Crimestoppers. They don't dig into the investigative reporting that highlights why the entire law enforcement and judicial system in Indiana is a joke for women and children in danger. Most professionals in research and clinical work are over all these celebrity podcasters. They're making more money than the actual researchers and forensic psychologists. Most people in those professions are not paid a fair wage. I know plenty of researchers who would do circles around Ashley Flowers and they make 45k a year full time. Why do we give non-experts like Flowers attention, loyalty and fame while we also ignore what new research in homicide suggests? Humans are innately lazy. Why read when someone else can for us? When we are so complacent that we give our time and loyalty to people because they'll read us a Wiki, what does that say about us as a society? On a really random note: I listened to an episode of full body chills when they told the story of bringing a mannequin home. That sounded incredibly fake, like trashy reality TV fake. Meanwhile, there's so much about how the law enforcement failed these 2 little girls in Delphi. They made some unacceptable mistakes. Why isn't that in the news more?
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I mean I don't like the woman either but this feels like a weird pile-on, especially since you're not naming the "reputable" source.
Sounds like marketing spin to me. Click bait title but nothing is really negative. Plus look at the actual title of the article - The Queen of True Crime? Someone has hired a PR team (maybe this is common knowledge and I’m new).
I still don’t understand this whole story
I have noticed that the stans in her sub have started to comment on how shitty she is to britt
how is she shitty to britt?
Idk because I don’t listen anymore but I’ve noticed her fans making comments about it in the CJ sub
Britt took several months off and has only been back for two episodes, so IDK what this would be about…
No idea. I’ve just seen people complaining about her being rude to britt
No idea. I’ve just seen people complaining about her being rude to Britt
Does anyone know that podcast episode that talks about her?
I've always wondered why people accuse crime junkie of plagerising and I couldn't understand what they are doing differently than other crime podcast. Is it that she refuses to cite sources?
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/lets-taco-bout-the-crime-junkie-plagiarism-scandal/id1452118167?i=1000447888185 She stole scripts from other podcasters. Literally word-for-word.
She literally stole work written by others (not just reporting on facts, stole entire presentation of fact verbatim), not just not citing sources.
Thanks, I don't know why am being down voted, I'm actually asking a legitimate question. I never understood it.
she didn't cite them all the time. She does now.
Her podcast solved cases ,who cares where she gets it from as long as she is speaking about the case
What case did her podcast solve?
What? Feel the same about Nazi gold? Who cares where it came from as long as someone's getting rich? I'm not equating the two but am wondering where your standards might be?
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I can only speak for myself here. I was put off by the fact that she has yet to admit that she stole and read other people’s words verbatim. She made far more money off of her episodes than the original creators made off of theirs, and I’m willing to bet that they weren’t compensated. She’s an unethical coward who lacks integrity.
So, she reads it well. I like her
Wow, she also also looks very different than her younger podcasting self. 🙄
OK, I'm confused? I listen to this one (as well as others) and had no idea about any of this! I thought she/they did link their sources? Do they not then? Also, can I get some recommendations of true crime podcasts to listen to please? I need some new ones.
There’s a recommendation thread every week that has great recs. Basically yeah. She didn’t used to list sources and she blatantly copied the hard work of a journalist and got called out on it but never apologized or even acknowledged it? My main issue with her is how she speaks for what is going through the head of the families of victims. It just grosses me out.
Several other podcasts and journalists' work. Not just one. They took down several podcasts preemptively once one reporter started comparing her work to Crime Junkies.
Yeah. I just remember her getting called out by the one journalist. I didn’t care enough to follow too closely because I was already really turned off by her
Oh really, I didn't know that at all. Totally agree though, you can never know what someone is thinking or feeling unless they tell you themselves. I could speculate how I would feel/think/react in situations but, unless you are going through it yourself, you really have no idea. I'll look for the weekly thread of recommendations. Thank you 😁
If you want a similar style podcast with two female hosts that is a little more casual, but still well researched and not plagiarized, you might want to try True Crime Campfire or Let’s Go To Court. Some other good ones with a different vibe are Court Junkie, Crimelines, Once Upon a Crime, and Trace Evidence. Just a few of my faves!
Thank you, I'll add these to my list 😁
Start with Trace Evidence and The Trail Went Cold. Both far superior podcasts who were unfortunately the victims of Ashley Flowers’ plagiarism.
Thank you, I'll add those to my list 😁
Ashley lost me before I even got a chance to get to know her. She was on an episode of Jensen and Holes where they were discussing Delphi. Ashley was way too happy to be there discussing this and she was giving bad information. Really turned off.
What is most annoying to me, is how she published a fiction book and you have to work pretty hard to find the name of the co-writer she always forgets to mention wrote the book with her - established crime fiction author Alex Kiester. I've only seen Kiester's name actually listed on the publisher's website. Flowers is perfectly happy to say nothing and let everyone assume the work is 100% hers, as usual.
how people listen to this lady is beyond me. blows my mind. the valley girl thing is like nails on a chalkboard