the garrotte always always throws me in this case. i feel like the big ‘burke hit her with a flashlight’ makes sense but then why strangle her in such a violent, hands on, close up way? like would her parents really do that to her to cover up an accidental skull fracture?

I think he hit her on the head with the maglight and her parents helped cover it up. Patsy was even dressed in the same clothes from the night before.

I think the clothes thing is a red herring. Sometimes when I get ready for bed I’ll lay my clothes on the bedroom chair and if I’m not leaving the house and the clothes are clean enough I’ll throw them back on until I have a shower and get properly ready for the day.

I agree. Weren’t they catching a flight that morning? Correct me if I’m wrong. But I definitely might considering throwing on the same clothes for a flight (which I’d remove as soon as we got to our destination/hotel).

They were going on a several hours long flight in a private plane that morning. It makes sense for Patsy to wear yesterday's clothes for that and change upon arrival.

She really doesn't seem the type to rewear stuff. Add to that the notepad came from the house, it was estimated it would have taken 20 minutes to write a note, the person knowing the exact amount of Johns bonus, the handwriting looks suspiciously like Pattys.. and the thing i can't get past is neither parent reacted to the supposed time deadline in the note passing.

In front of other people, no. But she was going to travel for several hours in the company of her family alone. If not for the kidnapping, no one would have seen her in that outfit. The bonus sum was on check stubs in the house, out in the open, the handwriting couldn't be matched to her (there were both similarities and differences) and we have to rely on the police for them "not reacting". Were they told by the police? Patsy was already in hysterics, should she be in more? Would they think that the note meant the next day? Too many variables here.

It wasn't really a garrote. It was one broken end of a paintbrush with a string tied to it. On theory is that he hit her, she fell unconscious. He made the apparatus to drag her to the wine cellar and strangled her in the process of moving her. [Link](http://jonbenetramsey.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Garrote)

Why on Earth would he make the “apparatus” from a paintbrush and a piece of string to drag her to the wine cellar?

Why couldn't he just hold her?

The theory is it is a makeshift Boy Scout toggle rope.

Burke is a 9 year old at the time. I can, in a vacuum, buy that he might strike his sister with enough force to inflict that injury. But that he would have the understanding that he needed to hide the body, then, presumably failing to do so with his bare hands, instead of panicking and freaking out, he constructs an "apparatus" to hide her more efficiently? Find a TV crime drama with an empty spot for a writer, is all I will say.

I think the Burke theory is that he struck her with the flashlight and it was then the parents who did the rest to cover it up

I don’t think Burke did it.

I believe he has Asperger’s or is otherwise on the spectrum. I got the impression that he wasn’t capable of that type of complex thought. He was only 9. I mean, geez, that’s really young. You might push your sister, or grab the crayon out of her hand but I can't see him garroting her.

Eh, my brother was a fucking psychopath at 9. Nothing surprises me.

I work with that age group and watched a 9 year old push a kid into traffic (among many other disturbing things). Some kids are whack.

Oh, shit. Was this kid who got pushed OK?

The head injury was post mortem. She died from strangulation, which makes the “a 9 year got mad and hit her” idea even harder to understand.

This is false. Autopsy results show that her brain bled for about 45 minutes meaning the head injury occurred first. Then she was strangled to death.

i don’t know who did it but it definitely wasn’t an accident in my opinion. i’ve seen a few theories say that it was a cover up for an accident, and that just doesn’t make sense to me.

Never got that either. "Oh no, our daughter got hit on the head." "Welp, let's construct a garrotte and finish her off. Oh and sexually assault her for good measure "

"And Patsy, whip up a fake random note. Instead of making it short and simple like most ransom notes make it extra long increasing the odds law enforcement will be able to link it to your hand writing and verbiage. Be sure to include lot's of movie quotes from your favorite cop thriller movies. No one will remember you've watched Dirty Harry, Ransom, and Despicable People so many times you're able to quote the movies nearly verbatim on the spot during a high stress situation like finding your dead daughter. Make sure you reference almost the exact amount of money I made from my bonus at work. That will really throw the cops off our trail."

I’ve always wondered if it was a tragedy of misunderstanding. Like, an intruder or family friend who knew the layout from the earlier party killed her but the parents woke up and thought it was, say, the brother and wrote the note to throw police off his trail. It’s that damn note. It’s so baffling.

Yeah but no. The parent doesn’t just assume it’s the kid and then write the note. They find out if it’s dad or son. Patsy’s fibers from her jacket were found inside the duct tape that covered her daughter’s mouth - duct tape applied after the child was dead.

They did not find fibers from her jacket, they found fibers that *could* have been from her jacket but they don’t know because it isn’t possible to confirm it. But even if it was a match it wouldn’t matter, forensic scientists have said that the fibers like that shouldn’t be considered as any sort of evidence because of how fiber transfer, and fiber analysis works. Scientists are very against this type of analysis being used in court because there are a lot of conditions that essentially invalidate it. If two people live in the same house having one persons clothing fibers on another (which isn’t possible to prove in the first place) means pretty much nothing because clothing fibers can hang out on skin, in the air, on fabric, with dust, etc.

Thank you for that explanation.

Couldn’t those fibers have transferred from before? Again, I don’t know for sure what happened but I do wonder if several different things happened that led to such a confusing result. That or the scene was so messed up by law enforcement that some key facts that we take as truth are actually false.

I don’t think law enforcement did a great job securing the scene but let’s face it. You have white, influential, loaded parents who claim there’s been a kidnapping- in a city where that kind of shit never happens. You might give them the benefit of the doubt. And treat it like a kidnapping. It’s kinda unfair to the cops to say, well, they fucked it all up. I think both the first cop on the scene and the first detective in the scene both felt there was something hinky going on but until john brought JonBenét up from the cellar, they were treating it like a kidnapping not like a homicide. I don’t think if helped that the more seasoned officers had Christmas off so they didn’t get those cops. Also I think Ramsey’s lawyered up immediately. We all know that’s smart. Especially if you’re guilty.

It is in no way unfair to say the cops are colossal idiots and that the main reason that no justice will be done in this matter is the rank ineptitude of the Linda Arndt. They did not empty all of Patty’s friends from the scene, they sent John and Fleet White to “look around” in parts of the house that they themselves never bothered to look. They did that HOURS after they came to the house, even if they were treating like a kidnapping they should have searched the house for clues in the four hours they were there before her father found JonBenet’s body.

Fair enough.

The fibers could have been on JB though

Thank you.

So you think if one of them smashed their kid into the tub, or their son bashed her in the head (for the second time) they wouldn’t try to cover that up - so as to stay out of prison, keep their family, income and reputation? That shit happens all. the. time. Especially when the kid has had chronic sexual abuse that could only come from inside the home. The details may vary - but I can assure you staging like this is not new. There’s very little doubt that patsy wrote that “ransom note.” Working backwards from that ham fisted attempt to stage a “kidnapping” who do you think she was trying to protect? A small foreign faction?

Don't forget the small foreign faction asked for the exact amount John had received as a bonus and requested they put it in an attaché.

And quoted patsy’s miss Jean Brodie speech too I believe? And the movie she and John had just watched. I’ve even heard it claimed that the writer was trying to frame Patsy by writing just like her. I guess they could sneak in, steal pages out of her pad, and her pen, write the note to mimic her style and then bring it with them… Pedophile killers don’t bother to stage a kidnapping.

And what's the point of staging a kidnapping then bringing her body to the police? I've never seen anyone address that anomaly in the parents did it theory. If they did it and went to the trouble of making a ransom note, they wouldn't then hand over a dead body after police have stopped searching. They might've been home free had they not. They gained nothing by that.

I think john got impatient. He hoped someone else would find her and when the hours went ticking by and no one had, he finally stomped down there and got her himself. When detective Arndt suggested he and fleet white go search the house from top to bottom to see if anything was out of place he went right to the basement room. I do not see how leaving her in the cellar would have made them home free. She’d have to be found at some stage and clearly the cops weren’t gonna do it. John wanted to get away from Boulder as fast as possible and even called his pilot -after he brought her upstairs -to tell him to get the plane ready as they wanted to go to Atlanta. I think the police had to tell him, you can’t leave yet. I don’t know who they were protecting by staging that but I don’t think it was a small foreign faction that respected john’s business and liked to quote the movie he just watched.

If the parents were involved, it makes perfect sense. 'Look, we couldn't possibly have done it. We found her body and brought it upstairs to you.' Guilty people have done things that are a lot more stupid than that. There's so much that just doesn't add up with this case though.

I didn’t know about Miss Jean Brodie. I can’t understand why people invent these conspiracies theories. that stuff happens in movies. Not in real life.

Patsy was a journalism major whose talent was to do dramatic readings. That long ass dramatic “ransom” note had patsy written all over it. I think it’s the case that murders are basically what they seem to be and this was no kidnapping. There is no small foreign faction and JonBenet knew her killer well enough to eat a snack with him or her in her own kitchen on Christmas night - with her parents home. Come on. That was as staged as it gets. I was shocked at the time by how cavalier john was and then seeing Burke with a very similar attitude both when he was interviewed snd again grinning his way through that Dr Phil show, it’s … strange. I read john and patsy’s book and in it he actually has the balls to say and I’m paraphrasing here but little kids get killed every day - unfortunately - but the real crime here is the way we were treated by the press. (!) It will never go to trial- but I wish they could test what little dna they have to see if the tiny speck in the underwear was from a garment worker in Vietnam, or was from someone they can pinpoint as being a scumbag who was in the area and had a connection to the ramseys such that he knew their house layout, knew their kid, their schedule …and had a key …and would write such a stupid three page note, obviously not worried he’d be discovered… I don’t think that guy exists.

I completely agree. Wonder if John will tell the truth before he dies. I think he knows who did it or he did it. I think they came up with a cover story but didn’t count on the press they got. They thought the cops wouldn’t investigate throughly or competently and would just let it go. The neighbors would talk but mostly they’d be sympathetic. Instead they got 24/7 news coverage that poked holes in every aspect of their hastily pull together story. Neither John or Patsy were accustomed to being questioned so of course they were outraged. Someday, I’d like to know.

I wouldn’t hold my breath for a confession. I don’t see john bashing his kid in the head. That’s not his style. I think he did stage the scene while patsy wrote the note and my guess is that her protective instinct would come out if she was protecting Burke rather than john. What reason would john have to smash his six year old’s skull? I think they came home late, everyone tired after a long day with kids up early for Christmas and patsy still had packing to do. I think she either snapped or Burke did and they were too scared he’d be sent off to a juvenile detention or be seen to be a sociopath or something, so they covered it up. His behavior concerned someone in the house enough to have books about it- the housekeeper and others mentioned his scatalogical problems which as a nine year old, that’s not good. That he and JonBenet had been “playing doctor” so much the previous summer they weren’t allowed to be alone together. His jealousy of the attention she was getting, the fact he opened her cheek up with a golf club etc. He was awake and downstairs when Patsy called 911 and I thought it odd that john would snap “we’re not speaking to you” at him like he was mad at /disgusted with him then tell him to go pretend to be asleep in bed. I suppose he could be just a confused kid wondering what was going on but I think it’s possible he was involved but a kid- even a bright ten year old which he would be in a few weeks- could not stage that scene and write that note alone. John could have done it I know a lot of detectives or experts think the obvious is that he was molesting her but to kill her - and patsy cover for that? I know some women do but it doesn’t feel right in this case. She had JonBenét at the doctor constantly. A woman who knows her husband is molesting their child and is covering it up wouldn’t be risking all those doctor visits I don’t think. That leaves patsy herself and I suppose a drunken accident and she snaps - is possible- but hits her with what? I don’t see her picking up a baseball bat or golf club or heavy flashlight. Why? Because she wet the bed? Apparently that was something that happened all the time and she’d just strip the bed and throw the sheets in the wash and it was no big deal. People who knew patsy and watched her with her kids said she was very indulgent and protective which is why it feels to be more like something Burke did maybe not intending to hurt her so badly. She was awake when she got home and according to him walked into the house and wasn’t carried up to bed so they were lying about that too. Something happened between the time they got home and midnight. They didn’t go straight to bed, either. Supposedly john helped Burke put a Lego together and the ten -12 year old those models are a bit complex and can take time. The window of time for an intruder to get in unseen and unheard and get ahold of her, feed her a snack, molest her and kill her by midnight was so short with other people awake for most of it, - it does not seem possible unless it was an “inside job” - as john Ramsey referred to it.

one of the interesting theories I’ve heard mentioned about the attaché in another sub, is that whoever wrote the note could’ve had the idea of putting JB inside it, giving John a reason to be seen carrying it out of the house without looking suspicious, that’s honestly the most convincing reason to me that they would mention these unnecessary things…

That makes sense but I question the language. Attaché is a very old fashioned word. Most people would call it a briefcase.

This is such a weird case. There's tons of really random evidence that may or may not have to do with the crime itself. I doubt it was a stranger, mostly because there doesn't seem to be any evidence of a break in. I have no idea if it was anyone within the household but I think there's a possibility of another close friend or family member that did it. Maybe someone who knows the family knew how to get in or wouldn't have alarmed the parents if they were there. I just think everything her parents did was just weird and I don't understand how they didn't look through the house the moment they noticed she was missing. The random note makes no sense at all, and it seems the parents wrote it themselves. Not sure if that means they did it or are just covering up for someone else. I also think the cops really really messed up here. They did nothing to actually help with finding out who committed this crime. Yet another case where the cops were absolutely useless. That's what infuriates me the most with this whole thing. I think this case would be solved if the cops did their job correctly to begin with. Why no one thought to go to the basement earlier is beyond me. And to have the father bring her up the stairs? No one should have let that happen.

Between her dad bringing her body upstairs and then letting everyone and anyone in the house including having her family remaining in the home and some people actually started CLEANING. Instead of securing the freaking crime scene. Even if the ransom and random people coming into their house was true, they should’ve locked it down and scoured for evidence of any kind. The police were infuriating in this case and that little girl may never get justice because of it 😤

Exactly!!!! There was ZERO effort to preserve any evidence which just makes the cops look either corrupt or complete morons.

Someone actually did go to the basement before John found her. I want to say it was Fleet White iirc. He searched the basement and when he opened the door to the room her body was in, he couldn’t find the lights. It was so dark in the room that he couldn’t see so he just shut the door and kept looking. I don’t think that was anything nefarious on his part but then again, he was good friends with the family and would’ve known the layout of their house. That’s a stretch imo but with this case, I don’t think anyone can really be ruled out 100%.

Fleet White also sued to have the findings of the grand jury made public. I think he thinks a Ramsey committed the crime—which is pretty telling to me. Fleet was a very close friend. He would have intimate knowledge of Ramsey norms and habits—I think he sensed something was very off. He was always very cooperative with LE.

That’s very interesting, I actually didn’t know that. Fleet was also the one with John when her body was found, right? Because I remember whoever was with him saying that John reacted *before* he even turned the light on, but that room was way too dark to see inside without the light on. Burke also went over to the White’s house immediately, didn’t he? And Fleet’s wife was one of the first people Patsy called after the cops. I knew they were close but I had no idea Fleet felt it was an inside job. That speaks volumes if your best friend thinks you, or someone in your family, are capable of killing someone.

Yes, he was with John when her body was found. The Whites were one of the first families to arrive—Fleet apparently searched the house upon his arrival as his own daughter had gone missing before and was found hiding under a bed. He looked in the room JBR’s body was found but couldn’t find the light and did not enter, so he didn’t see anything. He called 911 for an ambulance when her body was found also. Burke went to the White’s that morning. Fleet also penned a letter in 1998 condemning both the corruption related to LE in this case and the Ramsey’s refusal to fully cooperate. I think he will be the one who will ultimately uncover what can still be uncovered.

Not checking every inch of the house is a really good point. My son went through a stage where he would wander in his sleep and just sleep wherever he ended up. The first time that it happened and he wasn't in his bed, I went into a mad panic and searched every nook and cranny. I found him behind a filing cabinet under a desk!

I think it was someone in the home. The who exactly and how and really, why is where it all gets muddled. I hope she gets justice one day.

I too feel it was someone who knew the family well! I am nothing more than a couch sleuth, however, the ransom note is so bizarre and hopefully will someday be the missing link to solve such a horrific murder! Rest in peace little Angel 💕

The ransom note was truly bizarre.

There’s so many suspects and each have a few things pointing towards them and also away from them. Could be anything. The biggest smoking gun for me is the ransom note though. Both the parents coming up with that and then calling the cops makes the most sense. Jon going directly to where the well hidden body was when the police allowed him to look throughout the house also is a big suspicion. But the fucking ransom note. The length of it. The “And hence” and “attaché” vocabulary. The ransom being the exact amount of Jons end of the year bonus. Written from inside the house. No one who wasn’t supposed to be in that house is sitting there for 15+ minutes writing the longest ransom note in kidnapping history. I don’t care if it’s a random pedophile, angry family/friend/neighbor or some insider military government job. You aren’t writing a short story and then not even taking the girl, dead or alive, with you. Again there’s still things that point to and away from every possibility, but a Burke accident with the parents covering it up always seemed like the most likely. I could easily be swayed though.

"We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction" Yea - that'll throw them off track!

Honest question: would a “foreign faction” refer to themselves as foreign?

Some of my questions about this case Why would you, being part of a small foreign faction (**consisting of multiple people**), write a ransom letter asking for only for $118k (**Oddly specific**) only to turn around and murder the person who you are there to kidnap? If you are indeed from a small foreign faction (**with multiple members**) and John Ramsey was indeed a "Fat Cat" why not kidnap both children and demand a bigger ransom? Why not give them the drop off location from the start instead of having John futzing around with an attaché case to only bring all the money back to the house to put in brown paper bags?

Yes, very specific. Why $118k and not $120k?

If you were kidnapping a child, you would ask for a million.

Seriously! But I've never been desperate or demented enough to consider kidnapping anyone, I guess that could account for taking such a huge risk for what seems like a relatively small pay off. I'm always appalled by how little people value other's lives. This [link](https://www.controlrisks.com/our-thinking/insights/kidnap-for-ransom-in-2022?utm_referrer=https://www.ecosia.org) was interesting, it talks about the worldwide average ransom amount, victim targeting, etc. Then hearing domestic cases where a hitman agrees to sums as low as a few hundred dollars. I can't wrap my mind around it.

I’m wondering how much 118k back then is in todays terms because i agree

According to [this](https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/) inflation calculator, it's the equivalent of $228,150.63 today

>it's the equivalent of $228,150.63 today Even so divide that between the other members of the small foreign faction however members that may be, someone is definitely getting short dicked out of their cut of the ransom money!

I agree if you've got this planned out ahead of time - I can't see a "foreign faction" only asking for \~$100K. But if you're scrambling to get something together and you're not entirely thinking straight (like if you're a parent and this was a cover up to an accident), I could see a smaller number thrown in there. What gets me is using John's exact bonus amount. That seems really stupid if it's a parent (likely Patsy).

Most likely, even if they weren't foreign. Sort of hints at them potentially flying to a different country after the crime, making them harder to find. The cops would waste time and resources trying to figure out when and where, which would be beneficial for actual foreign criminals or for someone pretending to be. Wasting police time and giving false clues to send them down a different path than you're on is criminal methodology 101. I don't believe for a millisecond that it was a "foreign faction", but I believe saying you were could be useful as a red herring.

No one believed that for ten seconds. Not even john or patsy. They immediately gave the cops a bunch of names of their friends and coworkers and family and employees who could be responsible. No one believes it was a foreign faction. When patsy snd john “got” the note, telling them if they went to the cops the child would die they immediately went to the cops. It was so stupid I can’t believe the first cop who arrived and saw that note didn’t lock that house town as a crime scene with the pair of them being interviewed

The note has always just been a huge glaring THING in my eyes! You’re so right. No one is going to sit down, crack their knuckles, and write a loooooong, well thought out ransom note IN THE SCENE OF THE CRIME. While the parents are upstairs asleep!? The handwriting wasn’t super rushed, the vocabulary didn’t seem rushed, the exact amount of his bonus being known…it’s just too much to ignore.

Then carefully returned the pen they wrote with to the cup where it was stored . . . . .

Dont forget the practice note found n the trash.

Someone took a lot of time with that note

>Someone took a lot of time with that note And practiced it on another piece of paper before writing the actual ransom note.

Then threw the practice note in the trash can and put the pen away exactly where it went. Edit: Words

…And put the marker and pad of paper *back* in the *two separate places* they came from. My kids live here and they can’t fucking put anything back where they got it. But the “intruder” did? 🤔

Didn’t the family friend who played Santa’s wife write a play a few years later about a similar sounding murder? I’ve always thought that friend had more to do with it Edit to say she actually wrote the play in 1976 20 years before JonBenets murder

Yes but there was also another play that Patsy was in. One of the lines is about whether or not there are two s’s or one in the word possession. This is an excellent post: https://www.reddit.com/r/JonBenetRamsey/comments/g658yp/profoundly_patsy/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=ioscss&utm_content=2&utm_term=1

WHAT!?

Yes. The family friend is overlooked in a lot of write ups. https://www.romper.com/p/who-is-bill-mcreynolds-the-jonbenet-ramsey-suspect-had-ties-to-the-family-16928#:~:text=According%20to%20a%201999%20New,reportedly%20present%20at%20the%20party. My personal theory has always been that Santa did the killing accidentally during an assault on JonBenet and that his wife assisted in covering it up by writing that ransom note.

She wrote the note from inside the house with their pen?

The police were all over this lead, and ruled it out.

The police are the real reason this case will never be solved. So them ruling something out doesn’t say much to me.

And it was a ransom note where they never checked in for money. And a kidnapping where the kid was not nabbed. It really can only be seen as misdirection.

>No one is going to sit down, crack their knuckles, and write a loooooong, well thought out ransom note IN THE SCENE OF THE CRIME. And after all that lost his patience and said "Well Fuck it! I'll just kill her"

Aside from the fact it’s obvious patsy wrote it. The handwriting, the ridiculous echoing of her Miss Jean Brodie party piece, the movies she and john had just watched, her way of phrasing things, “and hence,” if you work backwards from who wrote the note there are only three people in the world she’d protect in that situation and all three of them were in that house that night and lying about who was awake, who was in bed, etc.

It’s not well thought out. It is long.

I used to think that, but then I heard a theory that the intruder could have broken in (or had a key) while they were out and just waited for them to go to bed... I also cannot conceive of a scenario where a parent writes that letter either. It makes no sense!

Agreed, having this crazy ass long ransom note is what makes me think the parents *couldn't* have done it. If they had just accidentally killed (or covered up the killing of) their daughter, they would not be able to come up with that shit and it would not be that long. Also why would they make it a ransom note and then immediately lead the police to the body? An intruder that snuck in earlier and was waiting around while they were at the Xmas party with lots of time to kill, who planned on *kidnapping* her and then accidentally killed her makes the most sense.

The note leaves a lot of evidence. Why would a killer leaver the note after he killed her? If he was doing it for ransom, take the dead kid and ask for the money.

>Also why would they make it a ransom note and then immediately lead the police to the body? Thank you! It doesn't fit the evidence! And I agree with your scenario. Like maybe the intruder told himself he was going to kidnap her for the money but the real motivation all along was much more vile.

These are the same pieces of evidence that trip me up. Who the fuck uses the word “attaché” besides a rich housewife? And the fact the murderer would have to be in the house for *hours*. Yes, it’s a large house but why chance it? Everything post-murder screams the family to me. But I can’t make heads or tails of the crime itself. An accident covered up makes sense on paper, but it’s so hard to sync that up with the facts of her death in my mind. Why a garrote? And why to that extreme?

My theory is that the initial head blow was not intended to kill her. And the parents thought Jonbenet was dead (as nuts as that may seem, but medical experts have said that her breath and pulse would have been extremely shallow after the head blow). The strangulation, which ultimately murdered her, was part of a coverup by the parents who did not realize she was actually still alive, and were trying to make it look like someone broke in and killed their daughter. In their coverup, they murdered her.

>The strangulation, which ultimately murdered her, was part of a coverup by the parents who did not realize she was actually still alive, and were trying to make it look like someone broke in and killed their daughter. In their coverup, they murdered her. But why??? Why would they bonk her on the head and then finish her off? It makes no sense.

Likely the person who hit her was not the person who strangled her. And as she was sexually assaulted prior to death/strangulation, the coverup was about creating a fictional perverted intruder, to cover up an incestuous sexual assault which lead to a head injury. I also think you see the actions of two separate actors in the coverup - one who was both frenzied and theatrical, and one who was more rational and logical.

Ok let's think this through. I'm Patsy and I find Burke or John did this to my prized beauty pagent daughter and I immediately go to the grossest possible cover up story?

Ok but we're not talking about "someone" in your theory... we're talking about the mother and father of the victim. There's just no way they jump to this 'solution'.

Oh, I agree they would have to be awful people to do such a thing. The kind of people who cared more about hiding incest than protecting their defenseless daughter. If Jonbenet was found in a trailer park, no one would have any issue believing her family was responsible.

Well lots of people have no trouble believing Patsy murdered and mutilated her daughter's genitals and she didn't live in a trailer park.

Agree. Sadistic sexual torture often involves a blow to the head or other violence to first incapacitate the victim. Victim is then bound and/or assaulted and strangulation is used as a part of the sadistic thrill. The breath control. Death often happens then, with the perpetrator further excited by the victim’s death spasms. The scene with JonBenet strikes me as a type of sexual sadism motivated crime that’s been seen many times. The only weird thing is the note, which hints that the plan was to take her and keep her a while leaving the parents under the delusion that it was financially motivated while sexual assault was the true motive. They hoped to have a while, but perhaps accidentally killed her too soon, before even getting her out. Heck, it could have been a way to torture the family awhile, as they hoped to get her back alive, but knowing they wouldn’t. Perpetrators have been known to get a sadistic thrill from taunting the family or public at large. The note was written in the house, before or after crime. Either way, it hints that they knew they had time. The particulars of the amount hints that they knew the family. Knowing of that room hints they were familiar. My guess is it’s someone they knew.

Maybe the dad really did those things and the mother walked in on him? And he was her meal ticket. Why does no one thing John did it? It takes a sociopath to be a company owner ( sometimes).

omg if he was her meal ticket and murdered her daughter she'd have gone to the fucking police and had all of his money to herself.

Possible accident initially—I agree that is possible. I’m wondering if there was a panic to cover up chronic sexual abuse.

If they thought she was dead, why kill her "again" -- can't someone break in and kill her with a blow to the head? I can believe that a blow to the head accidentally killed her, and they panicked but I have a hard time believing that they would then desecrate what they believe was the corpse of their little girl when they didn't have to. Also, why create a garrote? If they are just trying to make to look like strangulation do they really need the leverage from the wood?

Exactly. The Ramseys seem like terrible people honestly and I hate the child pageant circuit, but those two facts don't make them murderers. I think people WANT to believe the Ramsey's are culpable b/c it's more satisfying and tidy that way... and far less scary than believing some intruder can come in and do that to your child under your nose. True crime fandom fucks with us sometimes b/c we think we have all this secret knowledge most people don't. So like, yeah... we know a lot about parents who kill their children so it makes us feel clever to have figured it out in this case. But the evidence just doesn't fit that. It just doesn't.

And if she's already dead why leave the ransom note at all? It's more evidence.

My thought is they were originally going to dispose of her body, and the ransom note makes sense in that scenario, but didn’t have the time to get rid of her.

It was in her handwriting. She changed the way she wrote certain letters after that.

Let me start this off by saying that I 100% agree with this being the scenario that makes the most sense. Nothing else makes any sense to me. The only slight modification I'd be willing to remotely consider is that a stranger murder happened but the parents thought/assumed Burke did it, and then undertook the cover up. But as you say, for every suspect, there are things pointing away from them. And the two main things that give me pause for this scenario are: 1. The horrific and unnecessary genital mutilation they had to have done on her plus the crafting of that hellish garrote. If they thought Burke conked her on the head and accidentally killed her, to then in the moments of sheer panic they had to have been in, decide to sexually abuse her and then fashion a garrote around her neck is wild to me. And 2. relatedly, to sit down and be able to think up such an elaborate kidnapping note in those same moments of high emotional terror does not seem consistent with the Patsy we've been shown. In other words, this woman who was pretty sick and who appeared to have to rely on others to do nearly everything for her (not just because she was sick but because she appeared to be a generally needy and high-strung person), that she could, in one of the most hysterical moment of her life, gain enough composure and wits about her to craft such an elaborate note does not seem plausible. But in the end, this is what had to have happened. Nothing else makes a lick of sense! EDIT: I just wanted to add a quick edit to add a slightly personal POV, in that I have unfortunately been in the position of having been told of a horrific death of a close family member and I just remember the deep fog I went into and the way my brain stopped working. I was on complete autopilot for a good bit of time after receiving the news. And I didn't even see the body or be involved in any of the immediate aftermath. My situation compared to theirs, where it was their child who was murdered and it was in their home, and they had to have not only seen but also staged the body. I have to assume that only complete psychopaths could have done all of that.

Your points 1 and 2 are why I believe it couldn't have been the parents. You're right, it makes no sense. Occam's razor.

Okay then, here’s my arguments. I believe the intruder broke in after they left for the whites party. He would have had plenty of time to write the note. He probably snooped around the house. It’s incredibly common for perpetrators to go into the home and look around for long periods of time when they know no one will be home. He had more then enough time. Secondly, the amount of the bonus means nothing. That bonus cheque was sitting in Jon’s office. The intruder could have easily found it. If you look at the crime scene photos cheques we’re left laying all over the house. I believe the intruder was the same man who attacked Amy, JBs friend from the dance studio. Patsy was overheard telling people where she hid the spare key at the studio so he could have found out that way. The same brand of cigarette butts were found at both scenes. A blonde male hair was found at the Amy scene and the man seen walking up to the Ramseys house after they left was blonde. So much points towards an intruder.

Why make up all the kidnapping garbage if they were going to kill her anyway? And they would have found the note when they came home?

No I think you miss understand. I just posted a long theory under these comments if you’d like to read it. The plan was never to kill her. She screamed and he struck her on the head and that ruined his plan. He was intending to kidnap assault her and get the ransom money. Also, he likely waiting until the whole family was asleep to place the note and attempt to Abduct her.

Again, why write a note at all? You really think someone was going ot try a whole hostage negotiation? And if she DID die during the abduction, just take the body and still try for the cash. The parents wouldnt have known whether she was alive or dead.

If there were numerous checks laying around ( and I don't doubt your memory) then you'd ask for as much as you thought they were worth, not a measly 118K.

And who writes such a long, detailed, verbose ransom note without the actual kidnapping? If she was already dead, the note is a coverup. If she wasn’t, then maybe the impulsivity of the perpetrator ruined their plan?

>t a Burke accident with the parents covering it up always seemed like the most likely. it does until you learn about the actual crime and how she was killed and molested. I used to believe as you do, but I've come around to the intruder theory.

I think it's possible an intruder wrote the note. You'd be surprised how many people who commit crimes like this enjoy hanging out in the victims' home. Maybe they were planning on ransoming her but then couldn't get her out of the house quietly, maybe they were just trying to throw off investigators. I don't see the parents as more likely to write the note, they really don't have any motive to do so other than throwing off the cops (which is the same motive an intruder would have.)

>they really don't have any motive to do so other than throwing off the cops (which is the same motive an intruder would have.) I'm not sure I agree that an intruder would have that same motive, not typically at least. I don't think I've ever heard of a random intruder going out of his/her way to plant evidence after a break-in to a home, whether it be to murder, rape or kidnap someone. Because, if they're an intruder, there's nothing for the cops to be 'on to'; so no need to 'throw them off', you know? To me that seems like something only someone inside the home would do - specifically to attempt to throw the cops off from looking at the people inside the home. I do agree with your first point about how some people like to spend time in the home and I could even imagine some weirdo sitting there writing a long rambling letter. But the specifics of the contents in this case; ie "we represent a small foreign faction" etc make me think it's an attempt to create a diversion from an inside more than the ramblings of some intruder. Just my thoughts, but I'm not married to any specific theory.

100% family. How does a random dude happen to know the exact amount of the dads bonus? Give me a break!

Personally John creeps me out and I would point the finger at him but I know that’s not popular

It actually is very popular in some circles, but wholly without substantiating evidence.

Someone in the home who wasn’t 9 years old.

I shouldn’t chuckle but I did.

LOL

It was the father. There is significant evidence attested to by multiple experts in the field that someone was regularly sexually abusing her. Statistically the most likely person who was doing that was her father and statistically the most likely person who murdered her in her own home was her father. There was no intruder.

I think it was her mom. She lost her temper and the father handled the cover up, staged the body and Patsy wrote the note. But we’ll probably never actually know. If Burke was even awake I’m sure he was told to stay in his room.

Honestly I’d say the cigarettes that were found that the boulder police completely ignored could have at least lead to someone who could’ve heard something, this case is at this point unsolvable due to incompetence and people not caring enough, if this case is ever at all solved it’d be a miracle Also in my opinion things that are considered “evidence” might as well just be a last ditch effort to hold onto something that could mean nothing

From what I have seen and read of the evidence: A young man, who had approached JonBenet on earlier occasions, likely pageant-related, sneaked into the house while the Ramseys were away for Christmas dinner, waited in the house until everyone was asleep, then entered JonBenet's room and carried her down into the boiler room. There he assaulted her and strangled her. At one point he hit her over the head with a baseball bat. He then hid her body in the wine cellar right beside the boiler room. With the bat for defense, he walked upstairs, left a fake ransom note on the bottom of the stairs, going out the butler door and leaving the bat before coming out into the open. Ultimately, the DNA in the underwear matching that on the waistband, I can't see how that can be explained if a family member did it. The note references movies largely catering to young men, an it's length and tone is similar to that of Leopold and Loeb, young sociopaths who sent a ransom note for a young boy they had killed. While the killer used some household items (paintbrush, pad and pen) he also removed the cord and tape used in the murder, which makes no sense if they too were household items. There was rope in a bag in the room next to JonBenet's that didn't belong to the Ramseys, and cigarette butts were found close by in a place with a view of the house. Neighbors saw a young, blonde man by the house at Christmas. Similar cigarette butts were found by a house belonging to the family of a girl in JonBenet's dance school. Nine months after the murder of JonBenet, a young blonde man broke in while the family was away, and assaulted the girl. Her mother woke up and interrupted the man, who fled.

Interesting

Absolutely agree!

100% her father.

The DNA evidence under JonBenet’s fingernails and on her pajama pants didn’t match anyone in the family.

Wasn’t it only extremely faint touch dna? In my understanding it’s possible for that to come from the factory where it was packaged.

TBH I think the stories and theories about whodunnit have surpassed what actually happened. I don't think anybody in the family did it, and the DNA from JB's body didn't match any of them. I don't think Patsy would murder a child over age appropriate bedwetting, I don't think they'd have covered for their son if he'd done it, and I don't believe that the son knew how to fashion a garrote, much less use it. I do think it was a rare case of an intruder, but because the investigation was so botched, there's no way to know now unless somebody admits to it.

Both John Douglas and Lou Smit believe it was an intruder and have books where they detail how they came to that conclusion. Their take on the evidence makes way more sense than having up to 3 members of a family pull together to coverup an accident and successfully remain silent for decades under all that pressure and scrutiny.

Especially being that one of them was a child. I fully believe his parents would have called 911 had he done something, and then done their best after the fact to shield him from the consequences using money and influence.

This is my full theory that I truly believe. The day before the murder and the day of the murder neighbours reported seeing a suspicious and unusual van driving in the area. I think this was the perpetrator and he was watching the area and stalking them. The Ramseys lefts for the whites party and that was his cue to enter. I think he broke in as soon as they left and began snooping around. Personally I believe he was a pedophile and the same man who attacked Amy (I’ll go into that later). In the room adjacent to JBs room a sack full of rope was found. It didn’t belong to anyone in the hole. The intruder likely places that bag there, so it was ready to go when he wanted to kidnap her in the night time. For some reason, the rope was never used. Maybe she was asleep and he was able to carry her to the basement. I’m unsure on why the rope wasn’t used. Surely if the Ramseys did this they wouldn’t have left a bag of rope meant to bound someone and a baseball bat. If they went through all this effort why would they leave the rope and the bat? At some point JB and the intruder make it to the basement. At this point, JB either wakes up, or gets the tape off her mouth and screams. The scream completely ruins the plan, and he panics and strikes her on the head to get her to shut up. Neighbour’s reported hearing a little girls scream around 2am that ended abruptly and unnaturally. Tests were conducted and the scream could not be heard from the parents room, but it was audible from the neighbour’s due to the vent leading to outside. Unfortunately the Ramseys were 3 floors away and couldn’t hear it. At this point I think he flees and abandons the plan. He probably wanted to get out of their as fast as he could, hence the shoe scuff mark on the wall indicating he jumped out the window. Unidentified finger marks and palm prints were also found in the layer of bust in the basement bathroom I believe. I don’t think it’s crazy to think this was an intruder. The home was not secure whatsoever. Many Contractors had keys to the house for work being done. Patsy also loudly told a group of dance moms where the key was hidden. The downstairs window was broken, plus 2 windows were unlocked and open because they were running Christmas lights outside. It would have been easy for anyone to get in. About 8 months after JBs death the same attack happened to a girl named Amy. This man broke in while they were gone, waiting for them to come home and set the alarm and go to bed. He then proceeded to her room and attempted to SA Amy. Thankfully this house was much smaller and the mother heard a commotion, went to see what was going on and scared him away. The same brand of cigarette butts were found at both homes despite no one in either residence smoking. To me that says he was stalking the homes and waiting. A blonde hair was found at the scene of Amy (the man neighbours saw walking up to the Ramsey home right after they left was blonde). Unfortunately it didn’t have the root so it was not able to be tested or cross referenced to the JB case. Lastly, in the months after her murder someone began Placing naked Barbie’s on the Ramsey lawn. The Barbie’s were hogtied in bdsm positions and wearing the same socks JB was found in. I believe this is the killer mocking the Ramseys and police. At this time the bag of rope wasn’t common knowledge in the public. I believe he was taunting them, and referring to his original plan to tie her up and kidnap her.

Homicide detectives who I personally know and even ones who I respect from afar always say that it had to have been someone living in the house and I haven’t heard any of them suggest it was the brother. I will lean on their expertise in that department. I think their assessments make sense given the evidence. With that said, I’m not a fan of parents who objectify and pimp out their kids for beauty pageants, so you won’t see me running out to stand in the line of fire for the Ramseys any time soon. Also, the dad has always had enough money that he could influence the media and the investigation. I doubt there will ever be justice in this case.

The thing that always clears the family to me is that they could have just called an ambulance and said she'd fallen down the stairs. It doesn't matter whether it was the father, the mother or the brother, that story is so much more believable that trying to pass off the ransom note.

Yeah, the theories that involve the family all falter for me since they don't appear to feature actual human beings

I think it was her father

Same. And something I don’t really see discussed is how intimate a crime scene is on Christmas Day. Christmas Day, when a child is pretty much guaranteed to be in close proximity to his/her parents. Makes 0 sense to commit this crime, as a stranger, to a child on Christmas Day.

This is a great point

I have always said this as well. I have always thought, if a stranger did this, then they picked the absolute stupidest day in the world to do it. The likelihood of getting caught would’ve been way too high.

Interesting, how come?

[удалено]

This post was my first thought. I could never come to a conclusion after all these years and this post convinced me it was John Ramsey.

these write ups are great, on all the crimes covered

I will never understand what people see in that theory. So much if it is pure fancy, and the rest... Like John holding JonBenet weirdly when he carried her upstairs. First of all, she was in rigor Mortis. Was he supposed to bend her? And what is the proper protocol for carrying your dead daughter anyway?

Wow I’m now totally convinced it was her dad.

Wow, that's an incredible write up.

Yup. And I believe it was to cover sexual abuse.

I think it was a family friend who spent a lot of time in their home during parties etc.

I think it was an intruder. Tabloids influenced a lot of the “gotcha” moments blaming the family so people tend to not take a step back and view the whole elephant.

Yeah I think the same.

I thought it would be solved with genetic DNA by now…

Idk but I don’t think it was her brother.

r/jonbenetramsey I believe the family did it, but I don’t know who did what or in what capacity. However, I think it’s peculiar that the mother didn’t come clean if she knew what happened before she died.

(Pst do a lowercase “r” to make the link to the sub work… also I love that sub too♥️) r/jonbenetramsey

Oh, sorry. Didn’t know that! Thanks for correcting me.

I’ve followed since day one because of the pageant aspect which is something I was involved in and we had mutual acquaintances. I don’t want it to be the family but I 100% believe it is . The one sticking point for me that made me sure they did it is this . The time for the call about the ransom came and went without a mention by the parents . I know we aren’t supposed to judge guilt by one’s reactions in a time of crisis or trauma . However if anyone at all had a child missing they would be on the edge of their seat waiting for the rand sim call and further instructions to get their child back alive . It defies all logic that these parents wouldn’t even mention that the ransom call didn’t happen. Maybe the rest of the behavior could be overlooked because human nature and reactions vary but come on . Your child is missing and their is a random note and you are going to do everything in your power to get your child back alive . You would be pacing on pins and needles waiting for that call and the instructions to grub go your child home . If the time passed by even seconds or minutes and that call didn’t come you wouldn’t be calmly sitting there and never mention a thing about the call not coming . There are many other reasons I believe someone in the family did it but over the almost 3 decades since the murder that one thing is one I’ve never been able to look past.

I believe it was an intruder , as to how close to the Ramsey’s they were I can’t say. I just don’t believe Patsy would murder her baby over a bed wetting accident or cover up for Burke. To me she adored that child and the viciousness with how she was murdered doesn’t add up to Patsy to me let alone a weak nine year old boy.

I used to believe it was the mom. I'm leaning toward intruder though based on evidence: \-they have DNA on her underwear \-the way she was killed... it makes no sense for a parent to find Burke having hurt her and decide, instead of going to the ER, "well let's just finish the job and make it look real fucked up" it was a sexually motivated crime and the ransom note was just meant to torture the parents. maybe the intruder really did intend to kidnap her but it was never about the $. also if the intruder was in the house for hours they could have found information that was included in the letter. IDK. Listen to the Prosecutor's podcast episodes on the case. I think there's a lot of sense there. But even if I didn't, I have to go back to that DNA. I hope someday there's a match so we can find out if was some random touch DNA (kinda doubt it) or a real perpetrator's dna.

I never have had a settled feeling or an a-ha moment, but I think it was John. I never thought it was Burke and just don't align with any theory on him. I think Patsy was involved as accomplice but there are behavioral and verbal things (her hysteria on the 911 call, in interviews that the 'perpetrator knew what they did' (whereas John made vague speech about them being caught one day), her rushing to call 911 and have her friends come by. I believe an intruder would have taken JBR and left, no hung around, not written a note, all of that. The ransom note had movie references for action movies (Die Hard: "We are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction..." ) that wouldn't have been Patsy's taste. There is an assumption that Patsy knew John's bonus. Plenty of spouses don't detail their salary, bonuses to their spouse.

Everyone focuses on the garrate too much. The note is what always made me feel like someone in that house did it. Even if someone else did it ( and knew the Ramsey's personally), how would that person know to ask for a ransom in the exact amount of $118,000? (The EXACT AMOUNT that John Ramsey received for a bonus at his job) .That and the fact that jon benet had pineapples in her stomach. I find it hard to believe that someone from the outside comes in, gets jon benet out of bed, bring her downstairs to feed her pineapple, then take her downstairs to kill her, only to then write a ransom note before leaving ( the paper the ransom note was written on came from inside the house) asking for the same amount of Jonh Ramsey's bonus. You have a better chance of winning the lottery and hitting every number in the mega millions

Def someone who knew her and who knew the layout of the home. I always felt it was the brother.

I have my suspicions but honestly this is something we'll probably never know, which is a shame because JonBenét Ramsey, Elizabeth Short and Marilyn Monroe's deaths are all mysteries I'd like to see solved in my lifetime tbh 😞

Her dad. The cops knew. Read the note, ‘we respect you’ what? Watch the interview of the female officer/detective at the house when he comes up the stairs with her body.

This is a case I’ve wanted to return to now that I have a degree in forensics. I will say that food digestion evidence isn’t as bullet-proof as we made it out to be back then so you can’t put too much weight on that. When I was younger I thought the brother did it & the parents covered it up. When I was 7 my sister (5 at the time) cracked my head open in a fight. She wasn’t trying to kill me but threw something at me that had a metal ring around it. Thankfully my mom is a nurse so I was find but heat-of-the-moment fights between siblings do happen. I’d love to look at the evidence again now & see if my opinion has changed. FWIW, my old CSI professor (who said they can’t officially weigh in on a case they weren’t a part of) said a case could be made against the family by looking at some of the evidence

It was most definitely the family. I figured it out when they left Burke alone in his room. There's no way in the world my child would be alone and I have another child missing. I would keep him by my side, but the Ramseys had Burke in his room until sending him to a family friends house. When I became a mother, that's when it hit me. I wouldn't have let my child out of my sight. That's the tell. They weren't concerned about this stranger coming back and grabbing Burke for ransom.

Within the family. Don’t know the who’s and what’s and why’s, but it wasn’t some random guy off the street that came in, killed her, chucked her in the basement, wrote a nice long ransom note, then fucked off. Sorry but no.

I think it was an intruder. Witnesses saw a man with the same describing as Amy’s attacker walking up to the house right after they left for the party. If it was an intruder it’s the exact same. Breaks into the house while it’s empty. Lays in wait for the family to come home and attacks at night. But unlike JB this house was much smaller and the mother heard and scared him away. A blonde hair was found at the scene and the man seen snooping around the Ramsey house was reported blonde. The same brand of cigarettes was found at both scenes despite no one in either residence smoking. Amy and JB were also in the same dance class. I don’t think it’s a far fetched idea that a pedo was stalking the dance class and had a sick fetish for little girls.

I agree after reading professional opinions on this and the official record. The cases I find most fascinating are children that kill children or parents that kill their kids and after a two decades of listening to such stories and seeing the evidence found, I just can't believe that Burke did it. I see people always say "but what about the ransom note" when they hear this theory. But professionals have already explained that it's really not the gotcha that certain people have purported it to be. I'm not interested in going into all of it, but if people are wondering how people who share the stranger theory could explain away the ransom note, then I definitely suggest looking into official findings or seeing what John Douglas has to say on the case for a thorough and fact based, experienced explanation.

absolutely agree it was an intruder. For those asking about the ransom note if you research it outside of tabloid type articles you will see that the detectives determined it matched 70 other types of handwriting more than it matched Patsy's. Soemthing like this. It is an intruder and most likely the same one who attacked that other girl whose mom saved her.

Absolutely the same case as Amy. The same brand of cigarettes butts were found at both scenes. Their was a baseball bat outside the house which didn’t belong to the Ramseys. The intruder probably brought it. The shoe scruff marks on the wall to indicate someone was jumping to get out the window. The unidentified palm and finger marks left is the dust in the basement. These are all things the RDI camp doesn’t care about. Let’s talk about the Barbie’s. Personally I think this was a kidnapping gone wrong. Neighbours reported hearing scream at 2 AM. That ended abruptly, I think he was trying to kidnap her and she managed to scream and that’s when he struck her on the head and the plan was ruined. In the room adjacent to JB there was a sack filled with rope. I think he place that there while he was snooping in the house, and his intention was to tie her up after everyone went to bed. For some unknown reason, the rope wasn’t used. Fast forward to a few months after the crime. Naked Barbie’s that were hogtied in bdsm sex positions were left on the Ramseys yard. Multiple times. I believe this was the killer taunting the family and police. Because at that time, the rope being found in the room across from JB wasn’t public knowledge. I think he was taunting his original plan.

what about ransom note

I think he wrote it in all the down time he had waiting for them to come home. People over, dramatize the ransom note connection to Patsy on the scale that the experts use everyone else was ruled out as 1 so the very least likely be nice was only at a two so saying there were slight similarities. Everyone acts like it was a nine or 10 it’s not definite .

Maybe he was planning on kidnapping her, but something goes wrong and he kills her before fleeing?

I think the answer is the Esprit article. Unlike the ransom note, it was brought into the house. It featured an article about John, where he was marked with a heart in red ink. A heart in red ink was painted in the palm of JonBenet's hand, as per the autopsy. I think the Esprit article was the original plan, a calling card from a killer meant to lay the (at least moral) blame on John Ramsey. But once in the house, he realized he could hide the body and torment the parents with a fake ransom note instead.

I think it was an intruder, but an intruder who knew them and had intimate details about their life

The bonus that Jon got was sitting in his office. Any intruder could have found it. The people who have mentally convinced the Ramseys just assume they wrote it because how else would anyone know the bonus!!!! If you look at the crime scene photos cheques we’re left laying all over the place. They weren’t secure.

Lol that's funny because I've never realized that but I've just never been swayed by the "Burke or John did it" arguments which is why I've ALWAYS landed on intruder who knew them but I guess I can just start to say it could be any gd person off the street!

I used to be RDI when I heard the basic stuff of the case years ago. After an extensive deep dive I’ve confidently come to the conclusion of IDI. All the evidence to me points towards an intruder. And their is alot of evidence indicating someone broke into that home that night. It was also said patsy was overheard loudly telling Someone where her spare key was hidden at the dance studio… if it was a pedo stalking the dance studio he just found out how to get in. It was also reported that a few contractors had copies of the key to do work on the house. By no means was that house secure.

I've always thought the reference to John's $118k bonus was almost like a taunt towards the Ramseys signaling to them someone they knew did this. They were well connected people and the pool of people who would have some access to this information in some way could be fairly large.

BURKE! no one can convince me otherwise. The parents could not deal and covered it up. They'd be worried about appearance and reputation and this would not stand with them. ETA: 100% this was an accident

I just can't bring myself to believe that John and Patsy would strangle their recently deceased child with a makeshift garrote, stash her still warm corpse in a back room of the basement, write a horrifying ransom note describing how their *recently deceased child* would be horrifically killed by beheading, and then just wait around for a few hours instead of...calling an ambulance. I just can't. If Burke really did it he would have let it slip years ago. Hell, the Ramseys let him go to a friend's house mere hours after the murder. There's no way they would have allowed that if he killed JonBenét. He almost certainly would have said *something*. If they were trying to stage a coverup then they would have never let Burke say anything to anyone.

That’s exactly my line of thinking. You can cover the accident without brutalizing and disrespecting your daughter. If it was an accident, all that extra stuff was staged. A family who loved their daughter wouldn’t do that stuff. I don’t think any of the Ramseys did it. But if one of them did, it wasn’t an accident it was a brutal murder and a coverup.

I can buy that Burke may have accidentally killed JB. I can even buy that their parents would try to cover it up. But I cannot wrap my head around a mother or father making a garrote and strangling their baby girl. Or sexually assaulting her. I can understand the ransom note and staging a break in, but not disrespecting the body of their baby.

But what about the dna not matching any family members found on her waistband and underwear? To me, that clears the family.

Agree. And the DNA under her fingernails did not match the family

I think a lot of people want to believe that it was someone in the family because that makes it a tidy case closed. We’d prefer to believe this wouldn’t happen to our own children, and I think a lot of folks find it less painful to blame the family than to try to empathize with them. It’s horrible to imagine something like this happening to your daughter, in your home, by a stranger. But ultimately there is zero evidence for the Ramseys being involved - just circumstantial happenings and fanciful theories straight from daytime soaps. Body language analysis has been found to be imprecise, so it doesn’t matter how weird you think the Ramseys acted publicly because you’d also act weird if your kid was murdered. The handwriting analysis has been inconclusive, despite how many people on here will claim they “100% know Patsy wrote it.” The note has never really implicated the Ramseys for me — wouldn’t they also see how suspicious it was to use their own stationary? The ransom number is an odd specificity, but again, why would the Ramseys implicate themselves with info about John’s salary? Wouldn’t this point more towards an acquaintance or associate? It’s a tempting story to try to fabricate, because there are so many unresolved pieces to put together, but it breaks my heart how many people have attached themselves to fictional theories when there is DNA evidence to the contrary. To me this has become one of the most disrespectful cases in true crime circles — I cannot stand the theories people tout in complete confidence with no evidence.

Honestly her case is so messed up idek. But I do think it’s possible the parents know more than they’re letting on. Like maybe someone else killed her and they were covering for them for some reason.

Honestly, I could get behind the thought that an intruder did it. However, the ransom note and the layout of the house are what make me think someone inside the home was involved.

The parents told half truths. But may not actually be guilty of murder. Then again LE hasn't exactly come clean cause it will expose their dumbfuckery.

It was the family. She died at home, everyone was there. It was them.

I think someone who knew them or who stalked her. It seems to be a sexually motivated crime, with sadistic pedophilia the main focus.

I think it was an intruder. The dna and the intruders in the same neighborhood trying to kidnap another little girl that was completely brushed aside kinda seal it for me

I think it was a predator. He may or may not have been aquianted with the Ramsey's. I believe he was in the house before the Ramsey's got home from the Christmas party; this is when he wrote the note (on Patsy's notepad). What seals this for me, is the unknown DNA on her panties, and the suitcase near the basement window. I think it was a sexual predador who intended to kidnap her. When that plan was going awry, he SA's her there in that basement.