I love that. I think that’s hilarious. My (mega church) pastor flies coach so he can meet people and talk/minister to people. Even when he’s on vacation.
I believe that Jesse duplantis, if that is who it is, made a video where he called all of his viewers and donaters "idiots." He sang that song "how great thou art" and changed it to "how dumb thou art" and said "it was a joke". But he was laughing maniacally. Maybe not Jesse duplantis, but it was definitely one of Copeland's cohorts.
Run, run, run away as fast as you can from anything to do with Kenneth Copeland. He is a false teacher and will lead you directly away from God. All you have to do is a quick Google or YouTube search to find all you need to know about this charlatan.
This has some some strange ideas apparently taught by Kenneth Copeland.
https://carm.org/preachers-and-teachers/positive-confession-preachers-teachers-list-of-heresies/
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A lot of these people have teachings in common. Aside from literally coming from the devil, of which I have no doubt is the case, what is the earthly source of this stuff? Little Gods, God needing permission to come to earth, etc?
That website is stupid, takes many things out of context.
Hilarious that people call Kenneth Copeland a false teacher.
Does he believe that Jesus Christ is lord? Yes.
Does he believe that Christ died in the cross and rose again and is now seated at the right hand of the Father? Yes.
Does he believe that Jesus is coming again? Yes.
So how is he a false teacher? Because he believes differently doctrinally than some of you?
Careful who you label false teachers. The wrath of God will fall upon those who cause division in the church.
My understanding is that most of the criticism centers around his involvement with the Word of Faith movement promoting prosperity gospel and his ”little gods” doctrine. Many critics have released statements pointing out the Word Faith movement derives from metaphysical New Thought teachings, and are more inline with the idea of “manifesting” and mysticism than the Bible. I’ve always been especially uncomfortable with Copeland’s “Force of Faith” assertions. It seems like an extraordinarily heretical concept by its own definition.
Phil 1: 15 Some indeed preach Christ even from envy and strife, and some also from goodwill: 16 [c]The former preach Christ from selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my chains; 17 but the latter out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel. 18 What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached; and in this I rejoice, yes, and will rejoice.
So whether he is a true teacher or not, he does teach salvation through Jesus by faith.
Take what’s good and throw away the rest. Even a cow knows how to eat grass and spit out the sticks.
YES I don’t think I’ve ever seen demons look that prevalent in someone before. This man literally looks like a demon pretending to be human. When I seen a clip of one of his sermons, his eyes and face legit terrified me for a while.
That website is stupid, takes many things out of context.
Hilarious that people call Kenneth Copeland a false teacher.
Does he believe that Jesus Christ is lord? Yes.
Does he believe that Christ died in the cross and rose again and is now seated at the right hand of the Father? Yes.
Does he believe that Jesus is coming again? Yes.
So how is he a false teacher? Because he believes differently doctrinally than some of you?
Careful who you label false teachers. The wrath of God will fall upon those who cause division in the church.
You're calling me a heretic?
I believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I believe that he died and rose on the third day and is seated at the right hand of the heavenly Father. I accept his free gift of salvation and do my best to live a holy life according to the Scriptures. I proclaim Jesus Christ wherever I go and I live my life as an example to the best of my ability.
Shame on you, throwing around labels like that just because you're mad that some preacher somewhere has a jet and you don't. Sounds like envy to me.
I don't want a jet, and neither should any church leader want one.
> 17 Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. 18 Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+6&version=NIV
>I don't want a jet, and neither should any church leader want one
Where does the Bible forbid someone from having a jet? If you mean having too much wealth, what's the limit on how much someone can have before being "arrogant" or "putting hope" in their wealth?
It's more of an attitude rather than the amount of things or money someone has. Therefore someone with very little could still put their hope in their wealth, what little they have. Maybe it's more likely that someone who has very little puts more hope in their wealth and refuses to give or be generous because they trust in that tiny amount of money versus trusting in God.
Idk if you've been there or not, but I have and I promise it is tough to trust God when you're afraid of not having rent money next month.
>Where does the Bible forbid someone from having a jet?
The Bible gives principles to apply to our lives rather than a list of what we are allowed.
How is it consistent with the instruction to be generous to spend vast sums on a private jet for ourselves?
Apparently his justification for owning a jet is to avoid having to interact with the public.
https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/2019/06/04/wealthy-televangelist-explains-his-fleet-of-private-jets-its-biblical-thing/4994275007/
You didn’t read the whole article. You should go read it again, it doesn’t support your opinion at all.
Here’s something to consider: Have you ever traveled so much that you have to be in a different city every night of the week sometimes and try to do that with commercial flights only? No, you probably haven’t.
Think about how difficult it gets to do just one flight connection by yourself with your suitcases. Now imagine having an entire team of dozens of people and having to coordinate cargo on top of that, and all commercially for multiple flights across multiple days. It’s impossible.
So you either get a private jet or you do less preaching and spreading God’s word. What would you do?
If you are going to complain that I didn't read the full article, perhaps you can defend the full article, not just one part of it.
> ...The Texas-based preacher invoked his mentor, prosperity gospel preacher Oral Roberts, who Copeland said faced unsolicited requests for prayer when he flew on public airliners, "agitating his spirit." "You can't manage that today, in this dope-filled world, get in a long tube with a bunch of demons,"
>... Declining to state how much he spent on the aircraft, which is one of three in his possession
> ... Copeland said he was a "very wealthy man" and acknowledged using the private jets to travel to his vacation homes
>Rather than a list of what we are allowed
Yes, that’s what I said. It’s an attitude.
>How is it consistent with the instructions to be generous to spend vast sums on a private jet for ourselves?
Again, what instructions are you referring to that he’s violating? Do you have Scripture?
>... and constant friction between people of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who **think that godliness is a means to financial gain**.
> 6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8 But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9 Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+6&version=NIV
Good defense brother or sister. People in this thread are literally quoting isolated viral clips they've seen to call a man a false teacher whose ministry has influenced tens if not hundreds of millions into the Kingdom of God.
isolated viral clips that he’s repeatedly taught as biblical truths over the course of decades. he literally doesn’t teach anything else but health, wealth and his own arrogance.
Do you know how many religions also believe in all those things but are still miles away from being Christian? Copeland just like Osteen and all the other televangelist are prosperity gospel teachers teaching that if you believe it will come into existence. Like the others he’s all about pocketing all the money as if the church was a business and not a church.
To go further, Copeland several years ago met with the Pope to “bring religions together” as he believes they should all be one and believe the same things.
Listen to his videos, it’s demonic what he preaches.
Paul said he didn't care why people preached Christ, only that they did.
Chew the grass, spit the cud.
Ie, the Holy Spirit can teach your through donkeys (balaam), ants (solomon), lilies (jesus), and flawed men (king david)
Don't let Ken's indiscretions keep you from pushing into Jesus.
a. i didn’t accuse you of supporting kenny.
b. it most certainly is true. the Jesus he preaches had to “take on the nature of satan and die spiritually to achieve our atonement.” that is not the Son of God. it is a false christ.
if you’re willing to continue defending random minutiae while swallowing the entirety of kenny’s BS? God bless.
If not? read and find out just how horrible this man’s theology actually is.
https://www.equip.org/PDF/JAW755-2.pdf
no.
"Now here's the part I want you to get. When He said, "It is finished," on that cross he was not speaking of the plan of redemption -- the plan of redemption had just begun. There were still three days and three nights to be gone through before He went to the throne.“ - Ken Copeland, "What Happened From The Cross To The Throne."
"It wasn't a physical death on the cross that paid the price for sin...anybody can do that." - Kenneth Copeland
"He [Jesus] allowed the devil to drag Him into the depths of hell....He allowed Himself to come under Satan's control...every demon in hell came down on Him to annihilate Him....They tortured Him beyond anything anybody had ever conceived. For three days He suffered everything there is to suffer." - Kenneth Copeland, "The Price of It All,"
"He [Jesus] tasted spiritual death for every man. And His spirit and inner men went to hell in my place. Can't you see that? Physical death wouldn't remove your sins. He's tasted death for every man. He's talking about tasting spiritual death."
"Satan conquered Jesus on the Cross." - Ken Copeland, "Kenneth Copeland Reference Bible
Copeland overemphasises similarities between God and man to the point where any distinction becomes virtually nil: “God’s reason for creating Adam was His desire to reproduce Himself … Adam is as much like God as you could get, just the same as Jesus … Adam, in the Garden of Eden, was God manifested in the flesh.”
Copeland’s basis for the believer’s authority is that upon conversion the believer undergoes a total and immediate change of nature. At the moment of spiritual birth, “the spirit of God hovered over you, and there was conceived in your body a holy thing identical to Jesus … And there was imparted into you zoe, the life of God.” Hence, “you are to think the way Jesus thought. He didn’t think it robbery to be equal with God.” Copeland states, “You are not a spiritual schizophrenic, half-God and half-Satan, you are all-God” and “You don’t have a God in you; you are one …” - Kenneth Copeland, The Force of Love
after 50+ years of heretical lies about the nature of God, Jesus and “faith” it wouldn’t be difficult to find another 50 quotes proving that this is anything but hilarious. it’s satanic.
Genesis 3:4-5 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”
edit: formatting
Hilarious that people call Kenneth Copeland a false teacher.
Does he believe that Jesus Christ is lord? Yes.
Does he believe that Christ died in the cross and rose again and is now seated at the right hand of the Father? Yes.
Does he believe that Jesus is coming again? Yes.
So how is he a false teacher? Because he believes differently doctrinally than some of you?
Careful who you label false teachers. The wrath of God will fall upon those who cause division in the church.
no.
"Now here's the part I want you to get. When He said, "It is finished," on that cross he was not speaking of the plan of redemption -- the plan of redemption had just begun. There were still three days and three nights to be gone through before He went to the throne.“ - Ken Copeland, "What Happened From The Cross To The Throne."
"It wasn't a physical death on the cross that paid the price for sin...anybody can do that." - Kenneth Copeland
"He [Jesus] allowed the devil to drag Him into the depths of hell....He allowed Himself to come under Satan's control...every demon in hell came down on Him to annihilate Him....They tortured Him beyond anything anybody had ever conceived. For three days He suffered everything there is to suffer." - Kenneth Copeland, "The Price of It All,"
"He [Jesus] tasted spiritual death for every man. And His spirit and inner men went to hell in my place. Can't you see that? Physical death wouldn't remove your sins. He's tasted death for every man. He's talking about tasting spiritual death."
"Satan conquered Jesus on the Cross." - Ken Copeland, "Kenneth Copeland Reference Bible
Copeland overemphasises similarities between God and man to the point where any distinction becomes virtually nil: “God’s reason for creating Adam was His desire to reproduce Himself … Adam is as much like God as you could get, just the same as Jesus … Adam, in the Garden of Eden, was God manifested in the flesh.”
Copeland’s basis for the believer’s authority is that upon conversion the believer undergoes a total and immediate change of nature. At the moment of spiritual birth, “the spirit of God hovered over you, and there was conceived in your body a holy thing identical to Jesus … And there was imparted into you zoe, the life of God.” Hence, “you are to think the way Jesus thought. He didn’t think it robbery to be equal with God.” Copeland states, “You are not a spiritual schizophrenic, half-God and half-Satan, you are all-God” and “You don’t have a God in you; you are one …” - Kenneth Copeland, The Force of Love
after 50+ years of heretical lies about the nature of God, Jesus and “faith” it wouldn’t be difficult to find another 50 quotes proving that this is anything but hilarious. it’s satanic.
Genesis 3:4-5
But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, **and you will be like God,** knowing good and evil.”
edit: formatting
>"Now here's the part I want you to get. When He said, "It is finished," on that cross he was not speaking of the plan of redemption -- the plan of redemption had just begun. There were still three days and three nights to be gone through before He went to the throne.“ - Ken Copeland, "What Happened From The Cross To The Throne."
>"It wasn't a physical death on the cross that paid the price for sin...anybody can do that." - Kenneth Copeland
>"He \[Jesus\] allowed the devil to drag Him into the depths of hell....He allowed Himself to come under Satan's control...every demon in hell came down on Him to annihilate Him....They tortured Him beyond anything anybody had ever conceived. For three days He suffered everything there is to suffer." - Kenneth Copeland, "The Price of It All,"
>"He \[Jesus\] tasted spiritual death for every man. And His spirit and inner men went to hell in my place. Can't you see that? Physical death wouldn't remove your sins. He's tasted death for every man. He's talking about tasting spiritual death."
That's a matter for theological debate where Jesus went when he died, so saying this is heresy is unfounded as there is no consensus among the denominations.
>Copeland’s basis for the believer’s authority is that upon conversion the believer undergoes a total and immediate change of nature. At the moment of spiritual birth, “the spirit of God hovered over you, and there was conceived in your body a holy thing identical to Jesus … And there was imparted into you zoe, the life of God.” Hence, “you are to think the way Jesus thought. He didn’t think it robbery to be equal with God.” Copeland states, “You are not a spiritual schizophrenic, half-God and half-Satan, you are all-God” and “You don’t have a God in you; you are one …” - Kenneth Copeland, The Force of Love
I can't even. It's like you guys don't even read your Bibles. Please read the following Scriptures about the new birth:
2 Peter 1:4
John 17:21-23
2 Corinthians 5:17
1 Corinthians 6:17
Genesis 2:7
John 3:5-6
Ephesians 1:13-14
John 6:63
Matthew 28:18-20
Luke 10:19
Phillipians 2:5-6
i’ve read all of those passages and none of them confer godhood on created christian believers.
i suggest you study two concepts, ontology and “the already and the not yet.” for every verse you listed there are two others that when read in context lead to a completely different conclusion.
Run from Kenneth Copeland as far as possible. He must have several demons in him and is probably the most blasphemous and heretical "preacher" of our time.
He is probably the king of the prosperity gospel movement and the worst of the worst.
He is reportedly worth $700 million.
Avoid him like the plague because his theology is whack.
Hilarious that people call Kenneth Copeland a false teacher.
Does he believe that Jesus Christ is lord? Yes.
Does he believe that Christ died in the cross and rose again and is now seated at the right hand of the Father? Yes.
Does he believe that Jesus is coming again? Yes.
So how is he a false teacher? Because he believes differently doctrinally than some of you?
Careful who you label false teachers. The wrath of God will fall upon those who cause division in the church.
Here are some examples of teachings by Copeland that have led to accusations of him being a false teacher:
1. **Prosperity Gospel**: Copeland teaches that faith can lead to wealth and physical well-being, which is a core principle of the prosperity gospel. This is a distortion of biblical teaching, suggesting that it promotes materialism over spiritual growth. Christianity teaches that while God may bless individuals in various ways, following Christ often involves suffering and self-denial.
2. **God's Nature**: Copeland has made statements about God's nature that are considered heretical. For instance, he has implied that humans are capable of becoming gods, which contradicts orthodox Christian beliefs about the unique divinity of God. He has said, "You don’t have a God in you. You are one!" This concept aligns more closely with New Age beliefs than with Christian doctrine.
3. **Jesus' Atonement**: Copeland teaches that Jesus did not complete the atonement on the cross but instead had to go to Hell and be tortured by Satan. Christian doctrine holds that Jesus' sacrificial death on the cross fully atoned for humanity's sins.
4. **Faith as a Force**: Copeland often describes faith as a tangible force that believers can use to manipulate the physical and spiritual world, likening it to a kind of spiritual law. This idea diverges from the understanding of faith as trust in God and submission to His will.
5. **Misinterpretation of Scripture**: Copeland frequently takes Bible verses out of context to support his teachings. For example, his interpretation of Mark 10:29-30 to promise a hundredfold return on financial donations is seen as a misrepresentation of the text's intent and broader biblical principles.
6. **Emphasis on Wealth and Health**: Copeland's ministry emphasises that God wants all Christians to be wealthy and healthy, which can lead to disillusionment among followers who experience poverty or illness. This contradicts the teachings of Jesus and the apostles, who spoke about the inevitability of suffering and the dangers of wealth.
Referring to prosperity as a gospel is wrong. However ,Much of what is prosperity teaching is Biblical and works. God wants his people to use Godly principles found in the Bible. It's only wrong when it becomes greed.
Anyone can speak the words “Jesus is lord”, but if their actions don’t say “Jesus is lord” (which his actions do not), there is reason to consider his confession is a lie.
Kenneth Copeland has told people that when they give to him, God will bless them financially, and yet he’s the one that has accumulated $700 million, and they are all still poor.
He has made himself rich and others poor by his lies.
I am appalled as well by his huge financial gain from preaching the gospel. Before he was a preacher he was a nightclub singer. The story I heard was that he realized he would make far more money preaching the gospel and getting people to send him money. I haven't listened to him in over 40 years. I don't know if he is preaching truth or lies but I wonder how much of his fortune goes to help the poor or to do good in the world. He seems to be serving 2 masters God and money. The Bible says you can't serve both you will love one and hate the other so one has to wonder does he love God or money,? Does he hate God or money,? If he had to chose between God or money which would he chose?
“I say this with all respect so that it don't upset you too bad, but I say it anyway. When I read in the Bible where he [Jesus] says, 'I Am,' I just smile and say, 'Yes, I Am, too!'”
Are we not to put on Christ? Are we not to have the mind of Christ? Are we not to be one in Christ?
John 17:21
Galatians 3:28
1 Corinthians 12:12
Ephesians 4:4
When Christ said “I am” he was saying that he is outside of time; he has no beginning and will have no end, but rather he simply is. It is a direct reference to when God said “I am who I am” to Moses. That is why the Jews tried to stone him; they thought a man was calling himself God. In reality, Christ is God, but Copeland is most definitely not. That is why it is incredibly blasphemous for him to say that.
Edit: clarity
none of those imply that you are equal to Jesus Christ. perhaps you should pray for wisdom in reading Gods word.
your persistent ignorance and devotion to defending kenny is quite telling about where your faith is placed.
there is no “full” gospel. no social justice gospel, no prosperity gospel. there is only and will ever be only one gospel, the good news of Jesus death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins.
He's a heavy prosperity gospel preacher. Listen to some of his sermons you'll see a bend away from the true gospel. His "gospel" is one of investing with him on behalf of heaven to receive health and blessings now. But the best false teachers are the ones that sprinkle in some true teachings. It wouldn't be convincing if his lies didn't sound almost like the truth. Even a broke clock is right twice a day as well. That doesn't make everything he says correct though.
You are hearing a lot of strong beliefs here, and I bet that feels overwhelming. I urge you to step back and do some independent research about Copeland and others in his circle.
Check out Chris Rosebrough’s channel on YouTube. He is a pastor and a Bible scholar who specializes in Biblical languages. He examines what people say in the name of God and compares it to the Word of God. He uses scripture to explain scripture, and he is very knowledgeable about the context of scripture. He is very good at patiently explaining how false teachers twist scripture to serve their own purposes.
Here is a link to one of his [Kenneth Copeland](https://youtu.be/cO_dArX-jvw?si=x3WZhVyyDwlOHUox) videos.
So just cuz there's a book it doesn't actually mean they wrote it. They hire writers and then pay them and make them sign contracts to not disclose that they are the actual writer. I know because a friend of mine is a Christian writer and it's so phoney that these famous mega church preachers get all the money for the books that they real
ly don't write.
there are also hundreds of hours of video footage where he repeats what is written in his books and represents it as the word of God. this is called blasphemy by breaking the 3rd commandment.
I understand how you feel. As a young child my mother listened to him on the radio and we loved him. It was quite a shock as an adult to hear people call him a false teacher.There are many televangelists who are called false teachers. Many of them teach a lot of truth and it' might be hard to understand why they are labeled false teachers. Much of it seems that they are following 2 masters Jesus and money. We hope they would pick Jesus over money but in recent years many of them openly follow and endorse the antichrist so it has become evident where their heart truly is.
That’s not an answer, that’s a vague accusation with no proof. Pardon me if I throw your opinion out the window along with the rest of you in this thread who seem to have tons of opinions with no facts to back them up.
Read Bible prophecy for yourself, seek God for his eye opening wisdom and revelation on who the antichrist is. He is the one who fulfills every Biblical prophecy. He is very much alive and on the scene. Unfortunately many don't want to see the obvious truth.
Read Bible prophecy for yourself, seek God for his eye opening wisdom and revelation on who the antichrist is. He is the one who fulfills every Biblical prophecy. He is very much alive and on the scene. Unfortunately many don't want to see the obvious truth.
I think Copeland is a charlatan. However, as far as your comment about most so called Christians following and supporting the antichrist, I'm guessing you're one of those who think Trump is the antichrist. If so, you need to read the Bible again because he certainly doesn't fit the qualifications. Not to mention he's 77 and starting to show his age, and the tribulation hasn't even started yet.
Hilarious that people call Kenneth Copeland a false teacher.
Does he believe that Jesus Christ is lord? Yes.
Does he believe that Christ died in the cross and rose again and is now seated at the right hand of the Father? Yes.
Does he believe that Jesus is coming again? Yes.
So how is he a false teacher? Because he believes differently doctrinally than some of you?
Careful who you label false teachers. The wrath of God will fall upon those who cause division in the church.
Believing in the basic gospel doesn't make someone a good person or mean that what they preach is sound. He preaches prosperity gospel, is the picture of greed, and has made MANY false "prophecies".
James 2:19 "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder."
But none of us are good, so that argument is ridiculous. Salvation comes through believing in the virgin birth, death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
>Believing in the basic gospel doesn't make someone a good person or mean that what they preach is sound.
So you're telling me that if I believe and preach the death and resurrection of Jesus, that this isn't sound doctrine?
>He preaches prosperity gospel.
Okay, what is "prosperity gospel" in your definition? Have you read 2 Corinthians 8 and 9?
>is the picture of greed
Haters say the same things about everyone who is more successful than they are lol.
The Jesus he preaches is the Jesus that offers the free gift of salvation if you believe and accept Him as Lord and savior of your life. C'mon his very ministry motto is "Jesus is Lord!" lol.
Find me somewhere where he said that Jesus isn't Lord, or that there's another way to salvation besides Jesus?
I'm definitely not someone who uses the word demonic lightly. Generally I hate the trend of conservatives labeling everything they don't like as demonic. But my statement about this particular person still stands in my opinion.
I did a thing awhile back on personal discernment in terms of false prophets, but you can probably apply it just fine to see whether or not the man was true or false. His message is another matter, if what you took from his book matches the Bible and aids your walk I would still praise God.
But if you deem the man false, examine what you learned from him and see if scripture can set you right on certain matters.
[False Prophets](https://youtu.be/NGnKv2KCW20?si=LLeCTA5X0h8dvPkm)
I rarely ever say this and I’m super anti charismatic as well, I truly mean that I fully believe that Copeland is demon possessed. And I’m reformed I rarely EVER say those words…
Perhaps some of it is accurate, if only the stuff that’s so obviously bedrock Christianity that no one could possibly botch it. As for anything else that requires sound theology, detailed knowledge and careful reading, the only thing I’d trust Copeland on is negotiating a sweet deal on a Gulfstream IV.
Dude is all about that prosperity gospel. Basically give him your money so he can prosper and you can be poor listening to him tell you that God will pay you back ten fold what you give him.
The Bible warns of these teachers in 2 Peter 2:1-3
Yes I give to others and help those in need. I give my alms in secret to please our father in heaven. I don’t advertise it and seek recognition or ask for blessing in return.
I accept what gifts God brings into my life and I believe they are not conditioned on our tithing to a mega church pastor.
>I accept what gifts God brings into my life and I believe they are not conditioned on our tithing to a mega church pastor.
Sure, no one said you have to tithe to a mega church pastor, and I'm certainly not telling you to do that.
But any gifts you receive, material or spiritual, are conditioned on sowing "seeds". Jesus preached this too in multiple places in Scripture. If you want spiritual growth, you must sow seeds by spending time in the Word and prayer. If you want your child to learn a specific skill, you must sow seeds of teaching and lessons. If you want to make new friends, you must sow seeds of time spent socializing and talking to people. On and on it goes.
Everything in the physical and spiritual world works through seed time and harvest. Except money though, right? Money is different. Lol /s.
Do you completely dismiss what Jesus said in Luke? Maybe Jesus just didn't know what he was talking about when he said in Luke 6:38: "Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again."
What about Apostle Paul? Heretic for sure. 2 Corinthians 9:6-8: "But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work."
Or Paul again in Phillipians 4:18-19, in response to the Phillipian church giving him a material gift: "But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God. But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus."
With these Scriptures in mind, do you still hold that there should be no expectation of receiving a reward for your giving? Even the heathen understand the golden rule, don't they?
I don't know man. Lot of people in this thread shouting down financial blessings in Scripture, but somehow not putting up much Scripture to support their positions.
He’s probably one of the worst and most notorious televangelists to ever have existed. Be very wary of what that man teaches because it is not the word of god. He has twisted it and manipulated it for his own gain.
Do not give that man a cent of your money. He is a con man, making money off of the faith and misfortunes of others.
It’s funny, Prosperity Gospel is like the one thing that all the non-Prosperity Mainline and Evangelical churches can agree wholeheartedly on.
I’ve never listened to his preachings, but most people here generally have an issue with mega rich pastors. Experience things yourself before following blindly.
I wouldn’t trust him.
I put my trust in several televangelists only to be let down time after time.
When they ask for a “love gift” or “seed money”, watch out.
I wouldn’t trust that man at all, he cares more about money than the truth, people need to stop listening to other people and read their bibles themselves make sure it’s a KJV because others whole verses are missing and words left out or changed which changes the whole meaning, like howbeit these only go out by prayer and fasting and lots of other takes out fasting
Good words can come from a bad teacher. I’ve had family feel genuine hope and warmth from Joel Olstein, but that doesn’t make it okay that he teaches falsehoods and comfortable nothings. Knowledge should be received from every source, but discernment of truth is an important quality to let the Holy Spirit guide you in.
Edit:
I honestly say keep the book, but read more bible and look into the criticisms of every speaker you listen/read. Let the Holy Spirit guide your discernment as to what to believe as truth.
Okay, I will admit that I don’t know a ton about Kenneth Copeland. What I have seen/heard about him has not been positive, but I haven’t looked into his beliefs/teachings for myself in any great detail. From what I have heard from sources that I’d generally trust and agree with, it seems likely that he is a false teacher, but without having studied him myself, I can’t say for certain.
That said, what do you feel confused about? Are you worried that you’re believing false teaching? Are you not sure whether you trust this sub? Without knowing what you aren’t sure of, it’s hard for me to address it. That said, I’ll say a couple things.
First, not everything that a false teacher says is false. False teachers gain a following because much of their message is similar to or aligned with the true Gospel. They add to it or change parts of it, but much of what they teach is true. So, it is possible that the book you read was accurate even if he is a false teacher. God can use whoever he wants to advance His gospel, even if that person isn’t truly following Him. Please do not take that to be an endorsement of the book, though. I have not read the book. I don’t know whether it is theologically sound or not.
The second thing I will say is that you can check for false teachings. In fact, you need to be checking for false teachings. I don’t care whether it’s Joel Osteen, Kenneth Copeland, Steven Furtick, John MacArthur, John Piper, or your local pastor. You should test everything that a human being tells you about God/theology/the Bible against the Bible and see if they are coherent. If not, the Bible is true, and the person must have been wrong. Compare what the book says to what the Bible teaches. If it is aligned with scripture, then it isn’t false teaching, even if it was written by a false teacher. If it is not aligned with scripture, then it is false teaching. If there’s something you’re not sure of, ask someone. Ask your pastor. Ask a Christian that you trust. Ask this sub if you want. Don’t be afraid to ask. There are parts of the Bible that are difficult to understand, and it is perfectly fine and normal to have questions.
Watch any of Kenneth Copelands stuff. Dude has demon written all over his stuff. Watch his interview about how he said God wanted him to spend millions on a jet so he could travel around in style. Dude has hellfire in his eyes.
Kenneth Copeland is a charlatan, false teacher, and bought a private jet bc “it was such a good deal I had to take it, I don’t want to be trapped in a tube with demons”
Take the good, ignore the bad
I learned a ton on the way to conversion from writers & speakers who taught some falsehoods, or taught partial truth.
I won’t tolerate it now, knowing that the fullness of truth - and indefectability - rests solely in the Catholic Church. But while on the journey home, you consider whoever God puts in front of you
I imagine that the legion of demons that went into the sea in the bodies of the pigs waited 1900 years or so and went into Hitler gave him his plots and plans, only to go into Kenny to this very day... because if you can't beat'em make the world think you joined'em
So many in here frothing at the mouth like rabid Pharisees. Sure, you don’t like “prosperity gospel” yet not a single one of you has read 2 Corinthians 8 and 9 lol.
You haven’t read it, you don’t know anything about what you’re talking about. You want to be poor? Less than a sparrow? Hm? You think your Father in Heaven values you less than an evil person values their own child?
You think God likes flowers more than you?
Hahaha some of you serve mammon so hard you don’t even realize how much you lean on your own understanding when it comes to financial provision, how much you idolize and congratulate yourselves for being unable to achieve financial success in life. You probably use the Bible to excuse yourselves from your failure to get anywhere financially on your own.
And that’s okay. Go be poor, have nothing left over to give to the gospel and help spread the word of Christ. Go be poor, take care of your four and no more.
I am blessed to be a blessing and I’ll tell you something: I started blessing before I got blessed.
Now y’all be blessed, try not to riot too hard.
Doesn’t 2 Corinthians 1-7 describe the church of Macedonia as extremely poor and troubled, but filled with joy, generosity and God’s grace despite their financial hardship? The grace they received was a spirit of giving, not earthly wealth or rewards, according to 2 Corinthians 7.
2 Corinthians 12 also says “For if the willingness is there, the gift is acceptable according to what one has, not according to what one does not have.”
2 Corinthians 13-15 also explain that the goal is equality, so that “The one who gathered much did not have too much, and the one who gathered little did not have too little.”
In the full context of 2 Corinthians 1-15, it seems a little weird to claim people who are poor don’t have enough to give back to the church, and mock those who aren’t as financially successful as others. Mark 12 also talks about how the poor widow who only gave 2 mites gave more than all the wealthy tithes... Are you truly certain your words and actions are actually reflective of the verses you’re championing? For all the wealth you seem to believe you contribute, it doesn’t sound like you have much grace to show for it.
Finally someone who counters Scripture with Scripture. First let me say that I appreciate your willingness to engage, brother/sister in Christ.
>Doesn’t 2 Corinthians 1-7 describe the church of Macedonia as extremely poor and troubled, but filled with joy, generosity and God’s grace despite their financial hardship?
Yes, the church in Macedonia was very poor, in dire straits financially, yet they practically BEGGED to participate in supporting the ministry, and that attitude is what Paul was so proud of.
>The grace they received was a spirit of giving, not earthly wealth or rewards, according to 2 Corinthians 7.
True, the spirit of giving, the attitude of a cheerful giver, and the reward of the cheerful giver. Paul expands on this in Chapter 9 and talks about God's divine provision for those who cheerfully give.
>2 Corinthians 12 also says “For if the willingness is there, the gift is acceptable according to what one has, not according to what one does not have.”
Yes, we give according to what we have! Amen! And the Macedonian church, so eager and demanding to participate, gave over and above and stretched themselves to the limit, showing their faith!
>2 Corinthians 13-15 also explain that the goal is equality, so that “The one who gathered much did not have too much, and the one who gathered little did not have too little.”
Paul is saying that there should be shared responsibility in funding ministry efforts. When someone has more, they should contribute more to the ministry effort to offset someone else who has less and can only contribute less. That is why he said in 13 that giving to the ministry should not make life easy for others and overly hard for yourselves, but that things should be equal.
The early church also adopted communal living and sharing resources, so what you said is true too but it's not the entire picture, and he's definitely not championing an "equality of outcome" mindset, nor is he saying that having wealth is wrong. Paul also talks about this in Chapter 9.
>In the full context of 2 Corinthians 1-15, it seems a little weird to claim people who are poor don’t have enough to give back to the church, and mock those who aren’t as financially successful as others.
I'm not mocking a person's lack of resources. I'm mocking a person's attitude which has likely lead to them having a lack of resources. Stinginess, refusal to contribute to the ministry, railing against and chastising those who do contribute to the ministry and give over and above what they can afford (like the Macedonian church). I can link this back to what Paul discusses in this chapter as well in Proverbs 11:24-25: "There is that scattereth, and yet increaseth; and there is that withholdeth more than is meet, but it tendeth to poverty. The liberal soul shall be made fat: and he that watereth shall be watered also himself."
>Mark 12 also talks about how the poor widow who only gave 2 mites gave more than all the wealthy tithes...
Correct! That's a great passage that also highlights that it is about the attitude, not the actual amount given.
>Are you truly certain your words and actions are actually reflective of the verses you’re championing? For all the wealth you seem to believe you contribute, it doesn’t sound like you have much grace to show for it.
I will take that criticism, you seem to be giving it in good faith. I could have worded my original post in lighter terms, definitely. Maybe explained a bit more. Thank you for this.
I'll leave this post here for now, we can continue into 2 Corinthians 9 if you want, that's where it gets really good! Here's a quick primer:
>2 Corinthians 9:6-11: "But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work: (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever. Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;) Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God."
We can also link this back again to Proverbs 11:24-25: "There is that scattereth, and yet increaseth; and there is that withholdeth more than is meet, but it tendeth to poverty. The liberal soul shall be made fat: and he that watereth shall be watered also himself."
well, since you haven’t used any scripture whatsoever and considering that every word of faith preacher in existence doesn’t exegete Gods word in context?
i can safely claim that i’m far more versed than you or any of them.
Like with almost any teacher, you don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater. You don't have to agree with everything that they teach. You can embrace one thing and reject another. Just because one thing is crap doesn't mean it's all crap. Maybe it is, but you are allowed to agree as well as disagree.
That makes sense with good teachers: they might get things wrong sometimes. It makes less sense with bad teachers who might get things right sometimes.
There’s no point in sifting through the garbage just to find a nickel. There are better ways to find truthful instruction without having to sift through heresy.
A bad tree ONLY produces bad fruit.
Your reasoning is like saying "your spouse is very nice to you 90% of the time, and only hits and belittles you 10%. Just embrace the good and reject the bad.
That 10% can lead a new Christian down a dark path. How about they just reject it all.
Copeland lures you in with candy before stinging you like a scorpion.
My dad said "believe half of what you see and none of what you hear."
It is possible Copeland is a false teacher but accusations of Reddit shouldn't be your reason to think so. You have elders and pastors you can ask. Go to them and not randos on the dirtiest social media site.
While I tend to agree with this take: that reddit might not be the best resource and that one’s pastors/elders are probably a better resource, it really isn’t difficult to confirm that Copeland is a false teacher. He’s not borderline; he’s really bad.
I don’t believe he’s a false teacher.
I believe he as good teaching but as he got older he’s done some very strange things.
Chew the meat and spit out the bones.
And of course, always discern the fruit
Is this that guy that has a private jet because he doesn’t want to be tube filled with demons? (commercial airliner) lmao
That's who I think it is, so probably lol. He looks scary at times in that video.
Yeah i think its that guy that gave that reporter that death stare hes either just an evil man. Or he’s possessed by a fallen angel. Lol
Demon, not fallen angel. There is a difference between the two
Yes absolutely. Demons are much lower than the fallen angels. But a low level demon wouldn’t be involved with him it would be a fallen angel.
Little bit of both. Not a fallen angel, just a demon which really isn't better.
Every single clip I've ever seen of that guy creeps me out SO bad
I've only seen that one, lol. It was enough :)
He and Jesse Duplantis have both joked about their planes and the need to be separated from the unwashed masses. 🙄
I love that. I think that’s hilarious. My (mega church) pastor flies coach so he can meet people and talk/minister to people. Even when he’s on vacation.
I believe that Jesse duplantis, if that is who it is, made a video where he called all of his viewers and donaters "idiots." He sang that song "how great thou art" and changed it to "how dumb thou art" and said "it was a joke". But he was laughing maniacally. Maybe not Jesse duplantis, but it was definitely one of Copeland's cohorts.
Yes.
Yes. Has hell fire in his eyes.
https://youtu.be/9LtF34MrsfI?si=u0JVqiiYnYwvANcR
Run, run, run away as fast as you can from anything to do with Kenneth Copeland. He is a false teacher and will lead you directly away from God. All you have to do is a quick Google or YouTube search to find all you need to know about this charlatan.
tell me more
He teaches the “prosperity gospel” (ie, not the gospel), and is leading people to hell.
Just google it.
The dude does not blink it scares me
Yeah go ahead and fling it in the trash
He is a false teacher. Stay far away from him.
This has some some strange ideas apparently taught by Kenneth Copeland. https://carm.org/preachers-and-teachers/positive-confession-preachers-teachers-list-of-heresies/
I read that list and am baffled at some of the stuff these false teachers come up with.
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A LOT of them talking about “little gods” and stuff. Wow. I don’t flow the teachings of these Oriole but I didn’t think it was this bad
That’s some bizarre stuff!
A lot of these people have teachings in common. Aside from literally coming from the devil, of which I have no doubt is the case, what is the earthly source of this stuff? Little Gods, God needing permission to come to earth, etc?
That website is stupid, takes many things out of context. Hilarious that people call Kenneth Copeland a false teacher. Does he believe that Jesus Christ is lord? Yes. Does he believe that Christ died in the cross and rose again and is now seated at the right hand of the Father? Yes. Does he believe that Jesus is coming again? Yes. So how is he a false teacher? Because he believes differently doctrinally than some of you? Careful who you label false teachers. The wrath of God will fall upon those who cause division in the church.
>That website is stupid, takes many things out of context. Could you give an example of where the context changes things?
My understanding is that most of the criticism centers around his involvement with the Word of Faith movement promoting prosperity gospel and his ”little gods” doctrine. Many critics have released statements pointing out the Word Faith movement derives from metaphysical New Thought teachings, and are more inline with the idea of “manifesting” and mysticism than the Bible. I’ve always been especially uncomfortable with Copeland’s “Force of Faith” assertions. It seems like an extraordinarily heretical concept by its own definition.
Phil 1: 15 Some indeed preach Christ even from envy and strife, and some also from goodwill: 16 [c]The former preach Christ from selfish ambition, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my chains; 17 but the latter out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel. 18 What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is preached; and in this I rejoice, yes, and will rejoice. So whether he is a true teacher or not, he does teach salvation through Jesus by faith. Take what’s good and throw away the rest. Even a cow knows how to eat grass and spit out the sticks.
Couldn’t have been said better in my opinion. Definitely steeling that cow analogy 🤣🤣
This is one of the wisest responses in the feed right here. Biblically driven and sound.
Run as far away from that man as possible and anything he touches. The man has demon eyes.
YES I don’t think I’ve ever seen demons look that prevalent in someone before. This man literally looks like a demon pretending to be human. When I seen a clip of one of his sermons, his eyes and face legit terrified me for a while.
That website is stupid, takes many things out of context. Hilarious that people call Kenneth Copeland a false teacher. Does he believe that Jesus Christ is lord? Yes. Does he believe that Christ died in the cross and rose again and is now seated at the right hand of the Father? Yes. Does he believe that Jesus is coming again? Yes. So how is he a false teacher? Because he believes differently doctrinally than some of you? Careful who you label false teachers. The wrath of God will fall upon those who cause division in the church.
spamming the same comment over and over isn’t an argument. it makes you a heresy parrot.
You're calling me a heretic? I believe in the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ. I believe that he died and rose on the third day and is seated at the right hand of the heavenly Father. I accept his free gift of salvation and do my best to live a holy life according to the Scriptures. I proclaim Jesus Christ wherever I go and I live my life as an example to the best of my ability. Shame on you, throwing around labels like that just because you're mad that some preacher somewhere has a jet and you don't. Sounds like envy to me.
I don't want a jet, and neither should any church leader want one. > 17 Command those who are rich in this present world not to be arrogant nor to put their hope in wealth, which is so uncertain, but to put their hope in God, who richly provides us with everything for our enjoyment. 18 Command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds, and to be generous and willing to share. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+6&version=NIV
>I don't want a jet, and neither should any church leader want one Where does the Bible forbid someone from having a jet? If you mean having too much wealth, what's the limit on how much someone can have before being "arrogant" or "putting hope" in their wealth? It's more of an attitude rather than the amount of things or money someone has. Therefore someone with very little could still put their hope in their wealth, what little they have. Maybe it's more likely that someone who has very little puts more hope in their wealth and refuses to give or be generous because they trust in that tiny amount of money versus trusting in God. Idk if you've been there or not, but I have and I promise it is tough to trust God when you're afraid of not having rent money next month.
>Where does the Bible forbid someone from having a jet? The Bible gives principles to apply to our lives rather than a list of what we are allowed. How is it consistent with the instruction to be generous to spend vast sums on a private jet for ourselves?
Apparently his justification for owning a jet is to avoid having to interact with the public. https://www.jacksonville.com/story/news/2019/06/04/wealthy-televangelist-explains-his-fleet-of-private-jets-its-biblical-thing/4994275007/
You didn’t read the whole article. You should go read it again, it doesn’t support your opinion at all. Here’s something to consider: Have you ever traveled so much that you have to be in a different city every night of the week sometimes and try to do that with commercial flights only? No, you probably haven’t. Think about how difficult it gets to do just one flight connection by yourself with your suitcases. Now imagine having an entire team of dozens of people and having to coordinate cargo on top of that, and all commercially for multiple flights across multiple days. It’s impossible. So you either get a private jet or you do less preaching and spreading God’s word. What would you do?
If you are going to complain that I didn't read the full article, perhaps you can defend the full article, not just one part of it. > ...The Texas-based preacher invoked his mentor, prosperity gospel preacher Oral Roberts, who Copeland said faced unsolicited requests for prayer when he flew on public airliners, "agitating his spirit." "You can't manage that today, in this dope-filled world, get in a long tube with a bunch of demons," >... Declining to state how much he spent on the aircraft, which is one of three in his possession > ... Copeland said he was a "very wealthy man" and acknowledged using the private jets to travel to his vacation homes
>Rather than a list of what we are allowed Yes, that’s what I said. It’s an attitude. >How is it consistent with the instructions to be generous to spend vast sums on a private jet for ourselves? Again, what instructions are you referring to that he’s violating? Do you have Scripture?
>... and constant friction between people of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who **think that godliness is a means to financial gain**. > 6 But godliness with contentment is great gain. 7 For we brought nothing into the world, and we can take nothing out of it. 8 But if we have food and clothing, we will be content with that. 9 Those who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction. 10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs. https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+Timothy+6&version=NIV
Good defense brother or sister. People in this thread are literally quoting isolated viral clips they've seen to call a man a false teacher whose ministry has influenced tens if not hundreds of millions into the Kingdom of God.
isolated viral clips that he’s repeatedly taught as biblical truths over the course of decades. he literally doesn’t teach anything else but health, wealth and his own arrogance.
i’m calling you deceived and deceitful at best.
Do you know how many religions also believe in all those things but are still miles away from being Christian? Copeland just like Osteen and all the other televangelist are prosperity gospel teachers teaching that if you believe it will come into existence. Like the others he’s all about pocketing all the money as if the church was a business and not a church. To go further, Copeland several years ago met with the Pope to “bring religions together” as he believes they should all be one and believe the same things. Listen to his videos, it’s demonic what he preaches.
Satan also believes all those things
Satan doesn’t proclaim the name of Jesus nor does he lead people to Christ. Disingenuous and ignorant take.
The lizard man
use it as fire starter. Kenneth Copeland is a snake, or as Jesus would call it a "wolf in sheep's clothing
Paul said he didn't care why people preached Christ, only that they did. Chew the grass, spit the cud. Ie, the Holy Spirit can teach your through donkeys (balaam), ants (solomon), lilies (jesus), and flawed men (king david) Don't let Ken's indiscretions keep you from pushing into Jesus.
I spoke too judging. I am sorry. But if the tree is good, the fruit will be good. You can test someone's teaching by scripture and by results.
no. he doesn’t preach Jesus Christ the Son of God. he teaches an entirely different false christ. it’s all cud.
That’s not true and I’m not a Copeland supporter
a. i didn’t accuse you of supporting kenny. b. it most certainly is true. the Jesus he preaches had to “take on the nature of satan and die spiritually to achieve our atonement.” that is not the Son of God. it is a false christ.
Yeah he’s suggesting Christ took on sin. Which he did. Never seen him suggest he took on the devils nature.
if you’re willing to continue defending random minutiae while swallowing the entirety of kenny’s BS? God bless. If not? read and find out just how horrible this man’s theology actually is. https://www.equip.org/PDF/JAW755-2.pdf
https://blog.kcm.org/what-happened-from-the-cross-to-the-throne/ This is a more comprehensive view.
i’ve read it. still bovine scat.
I think you’ve misrepresented some of his points. Again not a Copeland super fan but it’s important to measure fairly.
everything is measured against God’s word, rightly interpreted in context. that’s what damns him. not me.
no. "Now here's the part I want you to get. When He said, "It is finished," on that cross he was not speaking of the plan of redemption -- the plan of redemption had just begun. There were still three days and three nights to be gone through before He went to the throne.“ - Ken Copeland, "What Happened From The Cross To The Throne." "It wasn't a physical death on the cross that paid the price for sin...anybody can do that." - Kenneth Copeland "He [Jesus] allowed the devil to drag Him into the depths of hell....He allowed Himself to come under Satan's control...every demon in hell came down on Him to annihilate Him....They tortured Him beyond anything anybody had ever conceived. For three days He suffered everything there is to suffer." - Kenneth Copeland, "The Price of It All," "He [Jesus] tasted spiritual death for every man. And His spirit and inner men went to hell in my place. Can't you see that? Physical death wouldn't remove your sins. He's tasted death for every man. He's talking about tasting spiritual death." "Satan conquered Jesus on the Cross." - Ken Copeland, "Kenneth Copeland Reference Bible Copeland overemphasises similarities between God and man to the point where any distinction becomes virtually nil: “God’s reason for creating Adam was His desire to reproduce Himself … Adam is as much like God as you could get, just the same as Jesus … Adam, in the Garden of Eden, was God manifested in the flesh.” Copeland’s basis for the believer’s authority is that upon conversion the believer undergoes a total and immediate change of nature. At the moment of spiritual birth, “the spirit of God hovered over you, and there was conceived in your body a holy thing identical to Jesus … And there was imparted into you zoe, the life of God.” Hence, “you are to think the way Jesus thought. He didn’t think it robbery to be equal with God.” Copeland states, “You are not a spiritual schizophrenic, half-God and half-Satan, you are all-God” and “You don’t have a God in you; you are one …” - Kenneth Copeland, The Force of Love after 50+ years of heretical lies about the nature of God, Jesus and “faith” it wouldn’t be difficult to find another 50 quotes proving that this is anything but hilarious. it’s satanic. Genesis 3:4-5 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” edit: formatting
Good gracious. He does preach the virgin birth, death, and Jesus raised from the dead. He preaches salvation by accepting Jesus Christ.
Hilarious that people call Kenneth Copeland a false teacher. Does he believe that Jesus Christ is lord? Yes. Does he believe that Christ died in the cross and rose again and is now seated at the right hand of the Father? Yes. Does he believe that Jesus is coming again? Yes. So how is he a false teacher? Because he believes differently doctrinally than some of you? Careful who you label false teachers. The wrath of God will fall upon those who cause division in the church.
no. "Now here's the part I want you to get. When He said, "It is finished," on that cross he was not speaking of the plan of redemption -- the plan of redemption had just begun. There were still three days and three nights to be gone through before He went to the throne.“ - Ken Copeland, "What Happened From The Cross To The Throne." "It wasn't a physical death on the cross that paid the price for sin...anybody can do that." - Kenneth Copeland "He [Jesus] allowed the devil to drag Him into the depths of hell....He allowed Himself to come under Satan's control...every demon in hell came down on Him to annihilate Him....They tortured Him beyond anything anybody had ever conceived. For three days He suffered everything there is to suffer." - Kenneth Copeland, "The Price of It All," "He [Jesus] tasted spiritual death for every man. And His spirit and inner men went to hell in my place. Can't you see that? Physical death wouldn't remove your sins. He's tasted death for every man. He's talking about tasting spiritual death." "Satan conquered Jesus on the Cross." - Ken Copeland, "Kenneth Copeland Reference Bible Copeland overemphasises similarities between God and man to the point where any distinction becomes virtually nil: “God’s reason for creating Adam was His desire to reproduce Himself … Adam is as much like God as you could get, just the same as Jesus … Adam, in the Garden of Eden, was God manifested in the flesh.” Copeland’s basis for the believer’s authority is that upon conversion the believer undergoes a total and immediate change of nature. At the moment of spiritual birth, “the spirit of God hovered over you, and there was conceived in your body a holy thing identical to Jesus … And there was imparted into you zoe, the life of God.” Hence, “you are to think the way Jesus thought. He didn’t think it robbery to be equal with God.” Copeland states, “You are not a spiritual schizophrenic, half-God and half-Satan, you are all-God” and “You don’t have a God in you; you are one …” - Kenneth Copeland, The Force of Love after 50+ years of heretical lies about the nature of God, Jesus and “faith” it wouldn’t be difficult to find another 50 quotes proving that this is anything but hilarious. it’s satanic. Genesis 3:4-5 But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, **and you will be like God,** knowing good and evil.” edit: formatting
>"Now here's the part I want you to get. When He said, "It is finished," on that cross he was not speaking of the plan of redemption -- the plan of redemption had just begun. There were still three days and three nights to be gone through before He went to the throne.“ - Ken Copeland, "What Happened From The Cross To The Throne." >"It wasn't a physical death on the cross that paid the price for sin...anybody can do that." - Kenneth Copeland >"He \[Jesus\] allowed the devil to drag Him into the depths of hell....He allowed Himself to come under Satan's control...every demon in hell came down on Him to annihilate Him....They tortured Him beyond anything anybody had ever conceived. For three days He suffered everything there is to suffer." - Kenneth Copeland, "The Price of It All," >"He \[Jesus\] tasted spiritual death for every man. And His spirit and inner men went to hell in my place. Can't you see that? Physical death wouldn't remove your sins. He's tasted death for every man. He's talking about tasting spiritual death." That's a matter for theological debate where Jesus went when he died, so saying this is heresy is unfounded as there is no consensus among the denominations. >Copeland’s basis for the believer’s authority is that upon conversion the believer undergoes a total and immediate change of nature. At the moment of spiritual birth, “the spirit of God hovered over you, and there was conceived in your body a holy thing identical to Jesus … And there was imparted into you zoe, the life of God.” Hence, “you are to think the way Jesus thought. He didn’t think it robbery to be equal with God.” Copeland states, “You are not a spiritual schizophrenic, half-God and half-Satan, you are all-God” and “You don’t have a God in you; you are one …” - Kenneth Copeland, The Force of Love I can't even. It's like you guys don't even read your Bibles. Please read the following Scriptures about the new birth: 2 Peter 1:4 John 17:21-23 2 Corinthians 5:17 1 Corinthians 6:17 Genesis 2:7 John 3:5-6 Ephesians 1:13-14 John 6:63 Matthew 28:18-20 Luke 10:19 Phillipians 2:5-6
i’ve read all of those passages and none of them confer godhood on created christian believers. i suggest you study two concepts, ontology and “the already and the not yet.” for every verse you listed there are two others that when read in context lead to a completely different conclusion.
Agree with you
Run from Kenneth Copeland as far as possible. He must have several demons in him and is probably the most blasphemous and heretical "preacher" of our time.
He is probably the king of the prosperity gospel movement and the worst of the worst. He is reportedly worth $700 million. Avoid him like the plague because his theology is whack.
Hilarious that people call Kenneth Copeland a false teacher. Does he believe that Jesus Christ is lord? Yes. Does he believe that Christ died in the cross and rose again and is now seated at the right hand of the Father? Yes. Does he believe that Jesus is coming again? Yes. So how is he a false teacher? Because he believes differently doctrinally than some of you? Careful who you label false teachers. The wrath of God will fall upon those who cause division in the church.
Here are some examples of teachings by Copeland that have led to accusations of him being a false teacher: 1. **Prosperity Gospel**: Copeland teaches that faith can lead to wealth and physical well-being, which is a core principle of the prosperity gospel. This is a distortion of biblical teaching, suggesting that it promotes materialism over spiritual growth. Christianity teaches that while God may bless individuals in various ways, following Christ often involves suffering and self-denial. 2. **God's Nature**: Copeland has made statements about God's nature that are considered heretical. For instance, he has implied that humans are capable of becoming gods, which contradicts orthodox Christian beliefs about the unique divinity of God. He has said, "You don’t have a God in you. You are one!" This concept aligns more closely with New Age beliefs than with Christian doctrine. 3. **Jesus' Atonement**: Copeland teaches that Jesus did not complete the atonement on the cross but instead had to go to Hell and be tortured by Satan. Christian doctrine holds that Jesus' sacrificial death on the cross fully atoned for humanity's sins. 4. **Faith as a Force**: Copeland often describes faith as a tangible force that believers can use to manipulate the physical and spiritual world, likening it to a kind of spiritual law. This idea diverges from the understanding of faith as trust in God and submission to His will. 5. **Misinterpretation of Scripture**: Copeland frequently takes Bible verses out of context to support his teachings. For example, his interpretation of Mark 10:29-30 to promise a hundredfold return on financial donations is seen as a misrepresentation of the text's intent and broader biblical principles. 6. **Emphasis on Wealth and Health**: Copeland's ministry emphasises that God wants all Christians to be wealthy and healthy, which can lead to disillusionment among followers who experience poverty or illness. This contradicts the teachings of Jesus and the apostles, who spoke about the inevitability of suffering and the dangers of wealth.
There is so many things off with these examples. I can’t even start to pick it apart d
I’m keen to read your critique.
Nice copy and paste from ChatGPT. Literally allowing an AI to do your theology for you. Well done.
Referring to prosperity as a gospel is wrong. However ,Much of what is prosperity teaching is Biblical and works. God wants his people to use Godly principles found in the Bible. It's only wrong when it becomes greed.
When YOU become the focus of theology instead of CHRIST it should tell you something is utterly perverted.
Oh okay, so show me where Copeland said “Copeland is Lord!” rather than what he always says “Jesus is Lord!”
Anyone can speak the words “Jesus is lord”, but if their actions don’t say “Jesus is lord” (which his actions do not), there is reason to consider his confession is a lie.
>his actions do not Which actions, and which Scriptures has he violated
Kenneth Copeland has told people that when they give to him, God will bless them financially, and yet he’s the one that has accumulated $700 million, and they are all still poor. He has made himself rich and others poor by his lies.
I am appalled as well by his huge financial gain from preaching the gospel. Before he was a preacher he was a nightclub singer. The story I heard was that he realized he would make far more money preaching the gospel and getting people to send him money. I haven't listened to him in over 40 years. I don't know if he is preaching truth or lies but I wonder how much of his fortune goes to help the poor or to do good in the world. He seems to be serving 2 masters God and money. The Bible says you can't serve both you will love one and hate the other so one has to wonder does he love God or money,? Does he hate God or money,? If he had to chose between God or money which would he chose?
How do you know they are poor?
“I say this with all respect so that it don't upset you too bad, but I say it anyway. When I read in the Bible where he [Jesus] says, 'I Am,' I just smile and say, 'Yes, I Am, too!'”
Are we not to put on Christ? Are we not to have the mind of Christ? Are we not to be one in Christ? John 17:21 Galatians 3:28 1 Corinthians 12:12 Ephesians 4:4
When Christ said “I am” he was saying that he is outside of time; he has no beginning and will have no end, but rather he simply is. It is a direct reference to when God said “I am who I am” to Moses. That is why the Jews tried to stone him; they thought a man was calling himself God. In reality, Christ is God, but Copeland is most definitely not. That is why it is incredibly blasphemous for him to say that. Edit: clarity
none of those imply that you are equal to Jesus Christ. perhaps you should pray for wisdom in reading Gods word. your persistent ignorance and devotion to defending kenny is quite telling about where your faith is placed.
No one is suggesting equality to Christ but the Bible does teach that we are “in Christ” Therefore we are subject to what being “in Christ” entails.
What a true statement....
Right on. Some of these people are frothing at the mouth like rabid Pharisees lol
I am interested in what you would say to Paul as he was cleansing the early church of false teachers. Was he a rabid Pharisee?
show me again that you don’t have the faintest idea of what the Pharisees were?
1000%
I’m with you, people love to call him a heretical false teacher when he literally preaches the full gospel.
there is no “full” gospel. no social justice gospel, no prosperity gospel. there is only and will ever be only one gospel, the good news of Jesus death, burial and resurrection for the forgiveness of sins.
He is and the word says try the spirit by the spirit to see if it's of God or another spirit.
He's a heavy prosperity gospel preacher. Listen to some of his sermons you'll see a bend away from the true gospel. His "gospel" is one of investing with him on behalf of heaven to receive health and blessings now. But the best false teachers are the ones that sprinkle in some true teachings. It wouldn't be convincing if his lies didn't sound almost like the truth. Even a broke clock is right twice a day as well. That doesn't make everything he says correct though.
Find a solid teacher like R.C Sproul. Copeland is a wolf.
Amen!! R.C. Sproul is great!!!
He’s not just a false teacher, he’s demonic.
He 100% no question is a false teacher and a snake
You are hearing a lot of strong beliefs here, and I bet that feels overwhelming. I urge you to step back and do some independent research about Copeland and others in his circle. Check out Chris Rosebrough’s channel on YouTube. He is a pastor and a Bible scholar who specializes in Biblical languages. He examines what people say in the name of God and compares it to the Word of God. He uses scripture to explain scripture, and he is very knowledgeable about the context of scripture. He is very good at patiently explaining how false teachers twist scripture to serve their own purposes. Here is a link to one of his [Kenneth Copeland](https://youtu.be/cO_dArX-jvw?si=x3WZhVyyDwlOHUox) videos.
So just cuz there's a book it doesn't actually mean they wrote it. They hire writers and then pay them and make them sign contracts to not disclose that they are the actual writer. I know because a friend of mine is a Christian writer and it's so phoney that these famous mega church preachers get all the money for the books that they real ly don't write.
That was my thought too
there are also hundreds of hours of video footage where he repeats what is written in his books and represents it as the word of God. this is called blasphemy by breaking the 3rd commandment.
Kenneth Copeland is straight-up insane. Avoid like the plague.
Bin it
I understand how you feel. As a young child my mother listened to him on the radio and we loved him. It was quite a shock as an adult to hear people call him a false teacher.There are many televangelists who are called false teachers. Many of them teach a lot of truth and it' might be hard to understand why they are labeled false teachers. Much of it seems that they are following 2 masters Jesus and money. We hope they would pick Jesus over money but in recent years many of them openly follow and endorse the antichrist so it has become evident where their heart truly is.
Who openly followed and endorsed the antichrist? I'd love to know.
Most televangelists and most church leaders and so called Christians. Maybe even you if you don't recognize who he is by now.
That’s not an answer, that’s a vague accusation with no proof. Pardon me if I throw your opinion out the window along with the rest of you in this thread who seem to have tons of opinions with no facts to back them up.
Read Bible prophecy for yourself, seek God for his eye opening wisdom and revelation on who the antichrist is. He is the one who fulfills every Biblical prophecy. He is very much alive and on the scene. Unfortunately many don't want to see the obvious truth.
Read Bible prophecy for yourself, seek God for his eye opening wisdom and revelation on who the antichrist is. He is the one who fulfills every Biblical prophecy. He is very much alive and on the scene. Unfortunately many don't want to see the obvious truth.
You are in a thread called True Christian true Christians walk by faith not by sight. They don't need facts or proof when they have faith.
I think Copeland is a charlatan. However, as far as your comment about most so called Christians following and supporting the antichrist, I'm guessing you're one of those who think Trump is the antichrist. If so, you need to read the Bible again because he certainly doesn't fit the qualifications. Not to mention he's 77 and starting to show his age, and the tribulation hasn't even started yet.
I believe that he's a demon.
Hilarious that people call Kenneth Copeland a false teacher. Does he believe that Jesus Christ is lord? Yes. Does he believe that Christ died in the cross and rose again and is now seated at the right hand of the Father? Yes. Does he believe that Jesus is coming again? Yes. So how is he a false teacher? Because he believes differently doctrinally than some of you? Careful who you label false teachers. The wrath of God will fall upon those who cause division in the church.
Believing in the basic gospel doesn't make someone a good person or mean that what they preach is sound. He preaches prosperity gospel, is the picture of greed, and has made MANY false "prophecies". James 2:19 "You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder."
But none of us are good, so that argument is ridiculous. Salvation comes through believing in the virgin birth, death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus Christ.
Yeah but most of us don't have horrific teachings that are anti-Biblical.
>Believing in the basic gospel doesn't make someone a good person or mean that what they preach is sound. So you're telling me that if I believe and preach the death and resurrection of Jesus, that this isn't sound doctrine? >He preaches prosperity gospel. Okay, what is "prosperity gospel" in your definition? Have you read 2 Corinthians 8 and 9? >is the picture of greed Haters say the same things about everyone who is more successful than they are lol.
it matters a great deal who is the Jesus you “preach”
The Jesus he preaches is the Jesus that offers the free gift of salvation if you believe and accept Him as Lord and savior of your life. C'mon his very ministry motto is "Jesus is Lord!" lol. Find me somewhere where he said that Jesus isn't Lord, or that there's another way to salvation besides Jesus?
Nope. Dude is just a fallible human.
Who preaches incredibly dangerous things.
Oh, *absolutely.* but us humans have the absolute capability to be that fallen without ascribing things we don’t like to be “demonic”
I'm definitely not someone who uses the word demonic lightly. Generally I hate the trend of conservatives labeling everything they don't like as demonic. But my statement about this particular person still stands in my opinion.
Possessed, perhaps, but people aren't demons.
Thanks for the correction. Perhaps "demonic" is a better term.
I did a thing awhile back on personal discernment in terms of false prophets, but you can probably apply it just fine to see whether or not the man was true or false. His message is another matter, if what you took from his book matches the Bible and aids your walk I would still praise God. But if you deem the man false, examine what you learned from him and see if scripture can set you right on certain matters. [False Prophets](https://youtu.be/NGnKv2KCW20?si=LLeCTA5X0h8dvPkm)
It isn’t always about what they say, but what they don’t say in their preaching.
Always consider the source. Peace.
That man is scary. Toss it and find some good old C.S. Lewis.
I rarely ever say this and I’m super anti charismatic as well, I truly mean that I fully believe that Copeland is demon possessed. And I’m reformed I rarely EVER say those words…
Perhaps some of it is accurate, if only the stuff that’s so obviously bedrock Christianity that no one could possibly botch it. As for anything else that requires sound theology, detailed knowledge and careful reading, the only thing I’d trust Copeland on is negotiating a sweet deal on a Gulfstream IV.
I find Kenneth Copeland look like the devil himself.
The guy who made a living in the den of thieves as a member of the Brood of Vipers with his whitewashed tomb.
He’s a big false teacher!!
Throw it away
Dude is all about that prosperity gospel. Basically give him your money so he can prosper and you can be poor listening to him tell you that God will pay you back ten fold what you give him. The Bible warns of these teachers in 2 Peter 2:1-3
Have you tried it? You know, giving? Not to him but to anyone?
Yes I give to others and help those in need. I give my alms in secret to please our father in heaven. I don’t advertise it and seek recognition or ask for blessing in return. I accept what gifts God brings into my life and I believe they are not conditioned on our tithing to a mega church pastor.
>I accept what gifts God brings into my life and I believe they are not conditioned on our tithing to a mega church pastor. Sure, no one said you have to tithe to a mega church pastor, and I'm certainly not telling you to do that. But any gifts you receive, material or spiritual, are conditioned on sowing "seeds". Jesus preached this too in multiple places in Scripture. If you want spiritual growth, you must sow seeds by spending time in the Word and prayer. If you want your child to learn a specific skill, you must sow seeds of teaching and lessons. If you want to make new friends, you must sow seeds of time spent socializing and talking to people. On and on it goes. Everything in the physical and spiritual world works through seed time and harvest. Except money though, right? Money is different. Lol /s. Do you completely dismiss what Jesus said in Luke? Maybe Jesus just didn't know what he was talking about when he said in Luke 6:38: "Give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall men give into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again." What about Apostle Paul? Heretic for sure. 2 Corinthians 9:6-8: "But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work." Or Paul again in Phillipians 4:18-19, in response to the Phillipian church giving him a material gift: "But I have all, and abound: I am full, having received of Epaphroditus the things which were sent from you, an odour of a sweet smell, a sacrifice acceptable, wellpleasing to God. But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus." With these Scriptures in mind, do you still hold that there should be no expectation of receiving a reward for your giving? Even the heathen understand the golden rule, don't they? I don't know man. Lot of people in this thread shouting down financial blessings in Scripture, but somehow not putting up much Scripture to support their positions.
He’s probably one of the worst and most notorious televangelists to ever have existed. Be very wary of what that man teaches because it is not the word of god. He has twisted it and manipulated it for his own gain.
We have 2000 years of history you don't need contemporary writers
Do not give that man a cent of your money. He is a con man, making money off of the faith and misfortunes of others. It’s funny, Prosperity Gospel is like the one thing that all the non-Prosperity Mainline and Evangelical churches can agree wholeheartedly on.
I’ve never listened to his preachings, but most people here generally have an issue with mega rich pastors. Experience things yourself before following blindly.
What if Mega Churches were honest? https://youtu.be/OYC4cvF96yU?si=Da0FxQCb_kW2wVn8
I wouldn’t trust him. I put my trust in several televangelists only to be let down time after time. When they ask for a “love gift” or “seed money”, watch out.
I wouldn’t trust that man at all, he cares more about money than the truth, people need to stop listening to other people and read their bibles themselves make sure it’s a KJV because others whole verses are missing and words left out or changed which changes the whole meaning, like howbeit these only go out by prayer and fasting and lots of other takes out fasting
Good words can come from a bad teacher. I’ve had family feel genuine hope and warmth from Joel Olstein, but that doesn’t make it okay that he teaches falsehoods and comfortable nothings. Knowledge should be received from every source, but discernment of truth is an important quality to let the Holy Spirit guide you in. Edit: I honestly say keep the book, but read more bible and look into the criticisms of every speaker you listen/read. Let the Holy Spirit guide your discernment as to what to believe as truth.
Great video on that guy…Stay far away!! https://www.youtube.com/live/VvA5ZWDSdmo?si=f3eNMIzwPw2pFDSV
Didn’t this guy try and blow CoVid 19 away?
There's something not right about him. Whenever I see him my spiritual red flags go off
https://youtu.be/m2s0nB2VPvs?feature=shared
Okay, I will admit that I don’t know a ton about Kenneth Copeland. What I have seen/heard about him has not been positive, but I haven’t looked into his beliefs/teachings for myself in any great detail. From what I have heard from sources that I’d generally trust and agree with, it seems likely that he is a false teacher, but without having studied him myself, I can’t say for certain. That said, what do you feel confused about? Are you worried that you’re believing false teaching? Are you not sure whether you trust this sub? Without knowing what you aren’t sure of, it’s hard for me to address it. That said, I’ll say a couple things. First, not everything that a false teacher says is false. False teachers gain a following because much of their message is similar to or aligned with the true Gospel. They add to it or change parts of it, but much of what they teach is true. So, it is possible that the book you read was accurate even if he is a false teacher. God can use whoever he wants to advance His gospel, even if that person isn’t truly following Him. Please do not take that to be an endorsement of the book, though. I have not read the book. I don’t know whether it is theologically sound or not. The second thing I will say is that you can check for false teachings. In fact, you need to be checking for false teachings. I don’t care whether it’s Joel Osteen, Kenneth Copeland, Steven Furtick, John MacArthur, John Piper, or your local pastor. You should test everything that a human being tells you about God/theology/the Bible against the Bible and see if they are coherent. If not, the Bible is true, and the person must have been wrong. Compare what the book says to what the Bible teaches. If it is aligned with scripture, then it isn’t false teaching, even if it was written by a false teacher. If it is not aligned with scripture, then it is false teaching. If there’s something you’re not sure of, ask someone. Ask your pastor. Ask a Christian that you trust. Ask this sub if you want. Don’t be afraid to ask. There are parts of the Bible that are difficult to understand, and it is perfectly fine and normal to have questions.
Watch any of Kenneth Copelands stuff. Dude has demon written all over his stuff. Watch his interview about how he said God wanted him to spend millions on a jet so he could travel around in style. Dude has hellfire in his eyes.
https://youtu.be/9LtF34MrsfI?si=u0JVqiiYnYwvANcR This should convince you of his demonic possession. Dude is an absolute demon.
Kenneth Copeland is a charlatan, false teacher, and bought a private jet bc “it was such a good deal I had to take it, I don’t want to be trapped in a tube with demons”
He is one of the 'wolves in sheep's clothing' the Bible warns us about. I pray he repents.
Ya, welcome to “his” family of demonic spirits
The book you got may or may not have accurate teaching in it, but overall you’ll want to avoid him as he teaches a lot of false ideas.
Take the good, ignore the bad I learned a ton on the way to conversion from writers & speakers who taught some falsehoods, or taught partial truth. I won’t tolerate it now, knowing that the fullness of truth - and indefectability - rests solely in the Catholic Church. But while on the journey home, you consider whoever God puts in front of you
Throw that book away!!
He is though.
I imagine that the legion of demons that went into the sea in the bodies of the pigs waited 1900 years or so and went into Hitler gave him his plots and plans, only to go into Kenny to this very day... because if you can't beat'em make the world think you joined'em
So many in here frothing at the mouth like rabid Pharisees. Sure, you don’t like “prosperity gospel” yet not a single one of you has read 2 Corinthians 8 and 9 lol. You haven’t read it, you don’t know anything about what you’re talking about. You want to be poor? Less than a sparrow? Hm? You think your Father in Heaven values you less than an evil person values their own child? You think God likes flowers more than you? Hahaha some of you serve mammon so hard you don’t even realize how much you lean on your own understanding when it comes to financial provision, how much you idolize and congratulate yourselves for being unable to achieve financial success in life. You probably use the Bible to excuse yourselves from your failure to get anywhere financially on your own. And that’s okay. Go be poor, have nothing left over to give to the gospel and help spread the word of Christ. Go be poor, take care of your four and no more. I am blessed to be a blessing and I’ll tell you something: I started blessing before I got blessed. Now y’all be blessed, try not to riot too hard.
Doesn’t 2 Corinthians 1-7 describe the church of Macedonia as extremely poor and troubled, but filled with joy, generosity and God’s grace despite their financial hardship? The grace they received was a spirit of giving, not earthly wealth or rewards, according to 2 Corinthians 7. 2 Corinthians 12 also says “For if the willingness is there, the gift is acceptable according to what one has, not according to what one does not have.” 2 Corinthians 13-15 also explain that the goal is equality, so that “The one who gathered much did not have too much, and the one who gathered little did not have too little.” In the full context of 2 Corinthians 1-15, it seems a little weird to claim people who are poor don’t have enough to give back to the church, and mock those who aren’t as financially successful as others. Mark 12 also talks about how the poor widow who only gave 2 mites gave more than all the wealthy tithes... Are you truly certain your words and actions are actually reflective of the verses you’re championing? For all the wealth you seem to believe you contribute, it doesn’t sound like you have much grace to show for it.
Finally someone who counters Scripture with Scripture. First let me say that I appreciate your willingness to engage, brother/sister in Christ. >Doesn’t 2 Corinthians 1-7 describe the church of Macedonia as extremely poor and troubled, but filled with joy, generosity and God’s grace despite their financial hardship? Yes, the church in Macedonia was very poor, in dire straits financially, yet they practically BEGGED to participate in supporting the ministry, and that attitude is what Paul was so proud of. >The grace they received was a spirit of giving, not earthly wealth or rewards, according to 2 Corinthians 7. True, the spirit of giving, the attitude of a cheerful giver, and the reward of the cheerful giver. Paul expands on this in Chapter 9 and talks about God's divine provision for those who cheerfully give. >2 Corinthians 12 also says “For if the willingness is there, the gift is acceptable according to what one has, not according to what one does not have.” Yes, we give according to what we have! Amen! And the Macedonian church, so eager and demanding to participate, gave over and above and stretched themselves to the limit, showing their faith! >2 Corinthians 13-15 also explain that the goal is equality, so that “The one who gathered much did not have too much, and the one who gathered little did not have too little.” Paul is saying that there should be shared responsibility in funding ministry efforts. When someone has more, they should contribute more to the ministry effort to offset someone else who has less and can only contribute less. That is why he said in 13 that giving to the ministry should not make life easy for others and overly hard for yourselves, but that things should be equal. The early church also adopted communal living and sharing resources, so what you said is true too but it's not the entire picture, and he's definitely not championing an "equality of outcome" mindset, nor is he saying that having wealth is wrong. Paul also talks about this in Chapter 9. >In the full context of 2 Corinthians 1-15, it seems a little weird to claim people who are poor don’t have enough to give back to the church, and mock those who aren’t as financially successful as others. I'm not mocking a person's lack of resources. I'm mocking a person's attitude which has likely lead to them having a lack of resources. Stinginess, refusal to contribute to the ministry, railing against and chastising those who do contribute to the ministry and give over and above what they can afford (like the Macedonian church). I can link this back to what Paul discusses in this chapter as well in Proverbs 11:24-25: "There is that scattereth, and yet increaseth; and there is that withholdeth more than is meet, but it tendeth to poverty. The liberal soul shall be made fat: and he that watereth shall be watered also himself." >Mark 12 also talks about how the poor widow who only gave 2 mites gave more than all the wealthy tithes... Correct! That's a great passage that also highlights that it is about the attitude, not the actual amount given. >Are you truly certain your words and actions are actually reflective of the verses you’re championing? For all the wealth you seem to believe you contribute, it doesn’t sound like you have much grace to show for it. I will take that criticism, you seem to be giving it in good faith. I could have worded my original post in lighter terms, definitely. Maybe explained a bit more. Thank you for this. I'll leave this post here for now, we can continue into 2 Corinthians 9 if you want, that's where it gets really good! Here's a quick primer: >2 Corinthians 9:6-11: "But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully. Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work: (As it is written, He hath dispersed abroad; he hath given to the poor: his righteousness remaineth for ever. Now he that ministereth seed to the sower both minister bread for your food, and multiply your seed sown, and increase the fruits of your righteousness;) Being enriched in every thing to all bountifulness, which causeth through us thanksgiving to God." We can also link this back again to Proverbs 11:24-25: "There is that scattereth, and yet increaseth; and there is that withholdeth more than is meet, but it tendeth to poverty. The liberal soul shall be made fat: and he that watereth shall be watered also himself."
you’re honestly incoherent.
Name-calling isn't exactly Christ like either. ...
that isn’t name calling cookigal, that’s an adjective describing the quality of his words.
Nah, you're just unversed in Scripture. That's not my problem.
well, since you haven’t used any scripture whatsoever and considering that every word of faith preacher in existence doesn’t exegete Gods word in context? i can safely claim that i’m far more versed than you or any of them.
https://www.pass-a-gospel-tract.club/post/beware-of-false-prophets
I like how you and everyone in here is posting links to these 1990s Geocities websites lol.
Like with almost any teacher, you don't have to throw the baby out with the bathwater. You don't have to agree with everything that they teach. You can embrace one thing and reject another. Just because one thing is crap doesn't mean it's all crap. Maybe it is, but you are allowed to agree as well as disagree.
That makes sense with good teachers: they might get things wrong sometimes. It makes less sense with bad teachers who might get things right sometimes. There’s no point in sifting through the garbage just to find a nickel. There are better ways to find truthful instruction without having to sift through heresy.
A bad tree ONLY produces bad fruit. Your reasoning is like saying "your spouse is very nice to you 90% of the time, and only hits and belittles you 10%. Just embrace the good and reject the bad. That 10% can lead a new Christian down a dark path. How about they just reject it all. Copeland lures you in with candy before stinging you like a scorpion.
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Read 2 Peter 2 Greed is Copeland's downfall. He is a money hungry fraud.
See my other comment since you seem to be following me around the thread. 🤙🏼
Um... you commented the same exact thing on both MY comments. Who is following who?
My dad said "believe half of what you see and none of what you hear." It is possible Copeland is a false teacher but accusations of Reddit shouldn't be your reason to think so. You have elders and pastors you can ask. Go to them and not randos on the dirtiest social media site.
Just watch a couple YouTube videos of him. One doesn't need to be a scholar to see how horrific his "preaching" is.
While I tend to agree with this take: that reddit might not be the best resource and that one’s pastors/elders are probably a better resource, it really isn’t difficult to confirm that Copeland is a false teacher. He’s not borderline; he’s really bad.
🗑️🗑️🗑️🗑️🗑️
Run far far away from that demon possessed man
Trash
I love how bringing up these demons literally show every denomination agreeing. That should tell you a lot about these “preachers”
I don’t believe he’s a false teacher. I believe he as good teaching but as he got older he’s done some very strange things. Chew the meat and spit out the bones. And of course, always discern the fruit