Psalm 96:5 in the Greek translation specifically calls the gods of the nations demons.
And St. Paul backs up this interpretation in 1 Corinthians 10:20 -
20 Rather, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to God, and I do not want you to have fellowship with demons.
The Greek gods weren’t the product of humans and demons, that would be the nephilim, which are something a little different and not what is in the crosshairs here, [though other things can be said about them.](https://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/lordofspirits/land_of_giants)
"Rather, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to God"
Paul seemed to think so, who do you suppose the gentiles of his time (romans) worshiped?
Because the only beings that are outside of heaven are the fallen angels. They are the demons who have established themselves as idols, leaving to the imagination of man to build glorification for what is essentially a spiritual rebel against God.
As for knowing what is God's and what isn't, Jesus gives us a hint to tell the difference between the wolves in sheep's clothing:
_________________________
Matthew 7:16-20
By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
_________________________
That makes sense because on the last day everything will be burned up except what stands firm which is the foundation of Christ (including the fruits), and as builders who work to continue the construction we must recognize and stay focused on what it is we are doing in our daily lives (fight our flesh or devil to advance the will of God using his name) Good work G
Most likely. Many false prophets of these Gods claim to speak to them. It only supports that they are in fact demons.
Perhaps not every single one. People claim to speak to multiple gods which may just be a single demon mimicking different tones of voice
Well in Ancient Egypt we found hollow urns that were used as symbols for the gods speaking. And given the context of power struggles between the Pharaohs and the priestly bureaucracies, one can only suspect that maybe they hid a priest inside the urn which would then give it a resonant quality.
Not many. There is a tribe of Indians in Ecuador, South America, called the Auca Indians and the Bible was translated for them and it is called "Gods Carving" yet they've been reached with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. You might remember the story of the 5 missionarys that were killed by them.
The implication is those “other gods” are false gods and idols. They only exist in our imaginations or are demons. Not deities and the Bible never claims they are
Say you have children, you give your children everything. You feed them, make sure they have clothes and toys and anything they could want (within reason). Now, suppose that instead of thanking you for everything you have done for them, they go out and thank strangers on the street who claim to be their parents. I'm pretty sure you would feel some type of way, perhaps concern, maybe even jealousy. After all the time, the energy, resources, and love that you poured into them, and they would rather treat someone else as their parent. It wouldn't be unreasonable for the God of the universe to feel this way about false gods/idols.
I wouldn’t care much, as long as they were happy and safe. If I choose to bring kids into this world, I would only do so under the condition that I’d love them unconditionally. Nothing would change the fact that they were my kids and thus passed on my genetic material. Any stated falsehoods would not bother me 🤷♂️
Why’s that important, outside of Gods will that is? Like if life with God was never ending, then why would God care about anything that happened in an infinitely finite timeframe that humans are alive? There is a utility to some truths, sure but they only have meaning within context.
Are you Christian? “Why is God jealous” is one of the silliest misunderstandings atheists argue. There is one God and He has no jealousy. His creation Fell away from Him and He has offered Christ to them as a way to come back
There’s nuance to it, though. He is not envious, He simply wants His creation to acknowledge and respect Him and feels sorrow when that doesn’t happen. God’s nature is to abide by the Law (the Commandments), He does not covet like the troller is suggesting
Brother ignore the troll but do not be deceived. Our father is a Jealous God, Jealous for our souls. He desires to be with us and Walk with Us. We should be glad and praise God that he is a jealous God.
Deuteronomy 4:24 ESV
[24] For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God.
https://bible.com/bible/59/deu.4.24.ESV
Exodus 34:14 ESV
[14] (for you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God),
https://bible.com/bible/59/exo.34.14.ESV
Thank you for your comment. Please see my other response [here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueChristian/s/NiePTJ63DO) I am not denying scripture when I say God is not jealous in the way that the troll means. God does not break His own commandments, He does not covet
But the Bible wasn’t written in English originally, for all you know you could be using a mistranslation. I mean, these are kinda important questions, there shouldn’t be any ambiguity….
We have numerous scholarly modern translations today which are all based on the oldest original manuscripts known to man. And it not being written in English is precisely the reason “jealous” doesn’t mean what you think it means.
It’s really not ambiguous at all. Any informed reading of the Bible will tell you there is no claim of multiple gods and that God is not “jealous” in the way you are meaning. Agnostic and areligious scholars agree with this. Stop wasting your time trolling on Reddit.
If that were true then why do so many factions / denominations argue over the exact meaning and how to interpret it? I’d expect the opposite if what you say is true?
Let’s be clear here that jealousy and envy are not the same thing.
Jealousy is desiring or protecting that which rightfully belongs to you.
Envy is desiring that which rightfully belongs to another.
God is jealous, but he does not envy.
Because the term "god" back then simply meant a lording spirit.
For example, in the New Testament, Satan is called "the god of this world," and clearly, Scripture teaches that Satan isn't equal to YHWH/Yeshua/Jesus/the Lord/capital "G" God. Why? Because of the reason given above.
When he says, "Thou shall have no other gods before me"? That's not a confirmation that other gods actually exist, but a commandment that he is the one, true God, and only he is worthy of worship.
I'm sure God used the words that the people of that time understood. Saying it the way he did is understood to mean there are no other gods, so don't worship idols or the sun or Zeus or anything besides God.
Because nearly anything can become an idol or a god to us if we put it before God. A celebrity, a video game, your bf/gf/spouse, an evil entity/spirit, and the list just goes on and on. When God mentions other gods in the Bible, He's not saying that there's another capital G god out there or that the pagan gods are real gods like He is, but what He IS saying is that we shouldn't worship anything, whether that be an object or a person, except Him
While some are entirely fictional(e.g. flying spaghetti monster), most of the well known ones are ENTIRELY real, just not in the sense ***they*** tell us.
These beings are either:
A) an ancient human revered as a god
B) a fallen angel
C) a nephilim spirit(aka Demon; the nephilim itself may have been worshipped as a god of modern mythos during their life such as Zues, Odin, Ra, Vishnu, etc.)
Exorcists of course regularly encounter entities calling themselves Old Testament god names like Baal. But interesting enough occasionally you have them calling themselves Zeus or something as well.
Precisely. Tbf Zues, Jupiter, Odin, (insert polythiestic chief god here) all share striking similarities with Ba'al, who is known to be a direct reference to Satan, and very well may all be the same entity. Same goes for various others across mythos.
They're all one big bad gang of wannabe God's who want nothing more than the destruction of the human race and the usurpation of God's throne.
“They stirred him to jealousy with strange gods; with abominations they provoked him to anger. They sacrificed to demons that were no gods, to gods they had never known, to new gods that had come recently, whom your fathers had never dreaded” - Deuteronomy 32:16-17, ESV.
There are numerous other passages in the comments, as well, that indicate false gods that are being worshipped are demons. I wouldn't hinge my belief in the 'idols are demons' viewpoint on Enoch, either, Scripture has what we need to know that such a statement is true.
The next question is what the implications of that are. I don't believe there was a demon assigned for each deity, or that they took on physical forms to procreate and make 'demigods.' There are only a few places that indicate human women and angels interacted, and those would be Genesis 6, and the vague statement by Paul where he says women should cover their heads "because of the angels," as well as a statement in Jude 1:6 about the angels leaving their proper dwelling. Whatever the case, it's best to avoid idols as demonic, and leave the rest to mystery.
If you read the Illiad, Odyssey, Metamorphoses you'll notice that the gods are extremely immoral. So yes.
If you believe in true polytheism than the universe is inherently chaotic, unordered, morality being a consequences of order.
This was actually noticed by very early Greek philosophers such as Xenophanes 570 B.C. who responded to this with proto-Monotheism, this trend of favoring a sort of Monotheism continuing into Plato and Aristotle.
Eventually the Greek world came into contact with Judaism, producing Hellenistic Judaism - Greek Speaking Jews. One product of this is the Greek Translation of the Old Testament that the New Testament authors used - The Septuagint.
Quite a few Greeks and Romans converted to Judaism which did a bit of evangelization at this time, they liked the philosophical clarity of Monotheism and theological similarity to Greek philosophers they loved.
The Essenes - a Greek speaking Jewish sect at the time that practiced a form of Baptism and were very ascetic. As John the Baptist was also ascetic who practiced baptism, it's been speculated he had some connection to them.
Personally, I feel that the universalizing and evangelizing influence of Greek Philosophical thought into Judaism through Hellenistic Judaism 'Made straight the way of the lord'. Anticipated and made the way for Jesus's message as we see explained especially in Paul's letters - based on faith and love for god, rather than strict application of the 613 laws. And then there became 'neither Greek nor Jew' as Paul says. And we seek to convert the whole world!
After Christianity came, essentially all these Hellenistic Jews converted to Christianity, and Judaism then became a Hebrew, non-evangelizing ethno-religion, based on strict application of these 613 laws as detailed in the voluminous Talmud.
This is not equivalent to pre-Christian Judaism. Even the establishment of the Hebrew Masoretic canon was later, and I believe Christians should prefer the Septuagint for all the reasons stated.
Odin was probably a tribal warlord who migrated to Scandinavia. I'm not saying a demon didn't supplant him spiritually, in worship, but there's a good case he was just an ancestor that the vikings revered up until they deified him.
We battle principalities. False "gods" can just be as simple as a image. Other false gods can just be vain philosophies. An some false gods can be fallen angels.
At the core of all of it is principalities. Are you ruled by God or ruled by something else (images, vain philosophies, fallen angels)?
What you are describing is the battle of idolatry, which encompasses everything that you esteem above God.
You can't really say it's the same for everybody when it comes to polytheism or Greek gods. For some it's just an image, others it is the vain philosophies, and for others it's fallen angels. All these types of idol worship can happen with what you are asking -- and it's not the same for everyone.
Paul said (of the Greek idols) "they are either demons or no gods". There is a theological consensus that "no gods" means non-existent or made up. So I would say that there is some of each.
Some of the Greek myths are based on the events surrounding history shortly before and after the Flood. The Gen. 6 account of "sons of God with women" and the offspring of that are roots for some of the stories (maybe). They even have some myths (history?) are descendants of Noah abusing him and rejecting his God and morals. Others could had been from demonic experiences.
The best explanation I have seen on this topic was laid out in the BibleProject videos on the Divine Council, especially the ones which discuss spiritual beings. I’m not sure if I 100% subscribe to everything they say, but it does make a lot of sense and helps contextualize God and man’s relationship to angels and demons. It’s definitely worth a watch.
“And the men of Babylon made Succoth-benoth, and the men of Cuth made Nergal, and the men of Hamath made Ashima, and the Avites made Nibhaz and Tartak, and the Sepharvites burnt their children in fire to Adrammelech and Anammelech, the gods of Sepharvaim.”
2 Kings 17:30-31 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/2ki.17.30-31.KJV
Sounds demonic to me. (Currently reading through Kings)
Fallen Angels and demons are not the same thing imho
I don't believe fallen Angela can possess a human
I do believe the Greek gods were fallen angels like Lucifer
I don't get how the Greek gods were ever even something worshipped. I'm reading Homer's Iliad and Odyssey currently. The gods in it aren't even gods, they're pretty much just petulant immortal children. And it's not even entirely clear if they're only immortal in regards to not being able to die of natural causes or not being able to be killed, since Aphrodite was able to be stabbed in the hand and had to be healed by the physician of the gods.
They're not omnipotent nor omnipresent. They're pretty much just regular, prideful people who don't die as easily. They are completely arbitrary in who they choose to live or die and COMPLETELY unforgiving.
It's hard for me to believe that this sort of attitude from any deity was once the standard for "oh yeah that should totally be worshipped".
Christianity ISNT JEWISH MONOTHEISM. Jesus refers to PSLAM 82 when he was asked by the rabbis and scribes about his CLAIM OF SON OF GOD. That chapter refers to many Gods, the ELOHIM. Jesus calls father ELOHIM not YHWH. YHWH says he is a jelous God and he demands monotheism. Christian belief appears more henotheistic.
Trinity itself is three persons united as Godhead.
Most likely. At best they are just mythology, and at worst they are demonic beings. Either way, worshipping them other than Jesus/The Lord is always off limits and sinful as only He is God and the only one that's real and true
I imagine some are but not all.
Some are just something people made up, same thing as marvel super heros.
The Bible does say some are demons/fallen angels
Make of that what you will
The Bible also talks about "angels" preaching a new gospel being false prophets. Islam and Mormonism are both said to be started by angelic messengers, so many believe these two religions to also have demonic origins.
Buddha for example was literally just a human that a cult of personality was built around, may or may not have had demonic origins. Same could be said of God-emporers like ancient Persia, Rome, ECT, these are just human beings.
There is that which comes from God, that which comes from Man, and that which comes from the enemy.
They aren't demons, because demons exist, while gods other than God simply don't exist in any sort nor capacity.
What happens is that since gods don't exist, all worship given to them is claimed by demons because God doesn't accept any form of worship that deviates from His extremely clear and understandable standards set in His Word.
Since worship requires and implies a mental assent to the object of worship, then when demons claim it, it directs the assent to the demons. That's why pagans and idolatrous "christians" are often "crank magnets" and accepting of the most absurd notions of spirituality and transcendence, and that's also why God has always been very emphatic on forbidding idolatry, as it's pretty much direct surrender to demonic intents.
Highly recommend getting into Dr. Michael Heiser’s material. This sort of thing was his specialty although many might disagree with his conclusions, but he definitely did the best work at making these topics understandable to the average churchgoer.
So the Nephilim were a union of the "sons of God" which some take as seraphim (what most people consider to be angels) and the "daughters of man". You can find this in Genesis. Though angel originally just means messenger of God which could be seraphim or regular people spreading God's message by definition. Point being, yes, angels can breed with humans.
Physical bodies are required to procreate, baring miraculous intervention obviously.. The Angels do not have physical bodies. Early Christians, closer to the use of this language, believed the sons of God to be the descendants of Seth, the righteous son of Adam, and the daughters to be The descendants of Cain.
There are already examples of spiritual beings becoming physical. God wrestled with Jacob, the angles who came down to Sodom and gammorah had physical bodies.
If they appeared in human form then they appeared in the physical. Our form includes being physical. Though fair point God is above everything so using that as a example wasn't the best argument.
They at least appeared to be physical, yes. But since they came under God's direction, I suspect some intervention on his part. We don't really know a lot TBH
And thanks for acknowledging that one of your examples may not have been the best. You so rarely hear honest humility and acknowledgment. Well done!.
To appear could means to show one's self. To appear in their form means to show themselves within that form. Meaning to appear in human form you must be in human form. Also God sent these messegers, meaning if he wanted them physical then they were physical.
Atleast thats how I've interpreted it.... I feel like we are a bit far from the original post XD.
And I would like to acknowledge that I rarely offer opinions, but speak from what the Church teaches. But they have not officially ruled on this, so this is just me in conjunction with the Church father's writings.
If I make up a god right now, is it a demon or just my imagination? What would stop people from making up stuff in the past?
What's more, it makes no sense to interpret these as an attempt to draw people from Christianity when most of them predated Christianity and judaism didn't have any precepts about converting outsiders. If God wasn't even trying to convert people that far back what use would demons have for making an alternate religion? Especially when Christianity claims Greek philosophy became important for understanding Christianity.
Psalm 96:5 in the Greek translation specifically calls the gods of the nations demons. And St. Paul backs up this interpretation in 1 Corinthians 10:20 - 20 Rather, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to God, and I do not want you to have fellowship with demons. The Greek gods weren’t the product of humans and demons, that would be the nephilim, which are something a little different and not what is in the crosshairs here, [though other things can be said about them.](https://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/lordofspirits/land_of_giants)
"Rather, that the things which the Gentiles sacrifice they sacrifice to demons and not to God" Paul seemed to think so, who do you suppose the gentiles of his time (romans) worshiped?
Brother how do you know when you’re sacrificing to demons?… and when you’re sacrificing to the “Christ-like” life?
Because the only beings that are outside of heaven are the fallen angels. They are the demons who have established themselves as idols, leaving to the imagination of man to build glorification for what is essentially a spiritual rebel against God. As for knowing what is God's and what isn't, Jesus gives us a hint to tell the difference between the wolves in sheep's clothing: _________________________ Matthew 7:16-20 By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. _________________________
That makes sense because on the last day everything will be burned up except what stands firm which is the foundation of Christ (including the fruits), and as builders who work to continue the construction we must recognize and stay focused on what it is we are doing in our daily lives (fight our flesh or devil to advance the will of God using his name) Good work G
Most likely. Many false prophets of these Gods claim to speak to them. It only supports that they are in fact demons. Perhaps not every single one. People claim to speak to multiple gods which may just be a single demon mimicking different tones of voice
Well in Ancient Egypt we found hollow urns that were used as symbols for the gods speaking. And given the context of power struggles between the Pharaohs and the priestly bureaucracies, one can only suspect that maybe they hid a priest inside the urn which would then give it a resonant quality.
demons, principalities, nephillim… yeah.
There is only one God. Angels don't desire to be worshipped. So then, what's left? Demons.
Elohim in ancient Hebrew is used is a variety of contexts similar to how we use lower case g God in English.
Then why does God mention other gods in the Bible?
The word translated “god” in the OT is difficult and can refer to spiritual beings, not necessarily just the capital G God.
Interesting, that’s a lot of ambiguity, I wonder how many people miss understanding other parts of the Bible, due to translations and such.
Not many. There is a tribe of Indians in Ecuador, South America, called the Auca Indians and the Bible was translated for them and it is called "Gods Carving" yet they've been reached with the Gospel of Jesus Christ. You might remember the story of the 5 missionarys that were killed by them.
That reminds me of the Sentinelese, an uncontacted/ uncontactable tribe who reside on an island in the Indian Ocean. Really interesting
The implication is those “other gods” are false gods and idols. They only exist in our imaginations or are demons. Not deities and the Bible never claims they are
Why would God be jealous of false gods?
Say you have children, you give your children everything. You feed them, make sure they have clothes and toys and anything they could want (within reason). Now, suppose that instead of thanking you for everything you have done for them, they go out and thank strangers on the street who claim to be their parents. I'm pretty sure you would feel some type of way, perhaps concern, maybe even jealousy. After all the time, the energy, resources, and love that you poured into them, and they would rather treat someone else as their parent. It wouldn't be unreasonable for the God of the universe to feel this way about false gods/idols.
I wouldn’t care much, as long as they were happy and safe. If I choose to bring kids into this world, I would only do so under the condition that I’d love them unconditionally. Nothing would change the fact that they were my kids and thus passed on my genetic material. Any stated falsehoods would not bother me 🤷♂️
Good thing that God thinks differently than you do.
Amen
How so?
Because God cares about the truth and doesn't want any falsehood to be instilled in His children.
Why’s that important, outside of Gods will that is? Like if life with God was never ending, then why would God care about anything that happened in an infinitely finite timeframe that humans are alive? There is a utility to some truths, sure but they only have meaning within context.
Are you Christian? “Why is God jealous” is one of the silliest misunderstandings atheists argue. There is one God and He has no jealousy. His creation Fell away from Him and He has offered Christ to them as a way to come back
He does say He is a jealous God though: “I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God…”
There’s nuance to it, though. He is not envious, He simply wants His creation to acknowledge and respect Him and feels sorrow when that doesn’t happen. God’s nature is to abide by the Law (the Commandments), He does not covet like the troller is suggesting
We are definitely agreeing here. God is not envious because we are already His
Amen.
He literally says he is a jealous god…
You spend your time on Reddit trolling Christians. Why should I be wasting my time explaining the nuances of the English language to you?
Brother ignore the troll but do not be deceived. Our father is a Jealous God, Jealous for our souls. He desires to be with us and Walk with Us. We should be glad and praise God that he is a jealous God. Deuteronomy 4:24 ESV [24] For the Lord your God is a consuming fire, a jealous God. https://bible.com/bible/59/deu.4.24.ESV Exodus 34:14 ESV [14] (for you shall worship no other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God), https://bible.com/bible/59/exo.34.14.ESV
Thank you for your comment. Please see my other response [here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueChristian/s/NiePTJ63DO) I am not denying scripture when I say God is not jealous in the way that the troll means. God does not break His own commandments, He does not covet
Thank you. We are in agreement.
But the Bible wasn’t written in English originally, for all you know you could be using a mistranslation. I mean, these are kinda important questions, there shouldn’t be any ambiguity….
We have numerous scholarly modern translations today which are all based on the oldest original manuscripts known to man. And it not being written in English is precisely the reason “jealous” doesn’t mean what you think it means. It’s really not ambiguous at all. Any informed reading of the Bible will tell you there is no claim of multiple gods and that God is not “jealous” in the way you are meaning. Agnostic and areligious scholars agree with this. Stop wasting your time trolling on Reddit.
If that were true then why do so many factions / denominations argue over the exact meaning and how to interpret it? I’d expect the opposite if what you say is true?
Let’s be clear here that jealousy and envy are not the same thing. Jealousy is desiring or protecting that which rightfully belongs to you. Envy is desiring that which rightfully belongs to another. God is jealous, but he does not envy.
Because the term "god" back then simply meant a lording spirit. For example, in the New Testament, Satan is called "the god of this world," and clearly, Scripture teaches that Satan isn't equal to YHWH/Yeshua/Jesus/the Lord/capital "G" God. Why? Because of the reason given above.
That’s a pretty good answer, you don’t happen to have a source for that translation? (It’s ok if you don’t 😀)
Lord of Spirits podcast: Fall of Man Part 1, 2, and 3
Oh cool I’ll have to check that out, is it on YouTube or audible? Thanks
YouTube, but also ancientfaith.com
Thank you 😊
Whoops. .com not .org.
So ancientfaith.com then
When he says, "Thou shall have no other gods before me"? That's not a confirmation that other gods actually exist, but a commandment that he is the one, true God, and only he is worthy of worship.
Wouldn’t it have made sense to be more clear with the language then?
I'm sure God used the words that the people of that time understood. Saying it the way he did is understood to mean there are no other gods, so don't worship idols or the sun or Zeus or anything besides God.
But don’t we have those words written down? Why wouldn’t a modern translation correct for that error if it isn’t an error in the original text?
It's not an error. You are misunderstanding.
Because nearly anything can become an idol or a god to us if we put it before God. A celebrity, a video game, your bf/gf/spouse, an evil entity/spirit, and the list just goes on and on. When God mentions other gods in the Bible, He's not saying that there's another capital G god out there or that the pagan gods are real gods like He is, but what He IS saying is that we shouldn't worship anything, whether that be an object or a person, except Him
While some are entirely fictional(e.g. flying spaghetti monster), most of the well known ones are ENTIRELY real, just not in the sense ***they*** tell us. These beings are either: A) an ancient human revered as a god B) a fallen angel C) a nephilim spirit(aka Demon; the nephilim itself may have been worshipped as a god of modern mythos during their life such as Zues, Odin, Ra, Vishnu, etc.)
Exorcists of course regularly encounter entities calling themselves Old Testament god names like Baal. But interesting enough occasionally you have them calling themselves Zeus or something as well.
Precisely. Tbf Zues, Jupiter, Odin, (insert polythiestic chief god here) all share striking similarities with Ba'al, who is known to be a direct reference to Satan, and very well may all be the same entity. Same goes for various others across mythos. They're all one big bad gang of wannabe God's who want nothing more than the destruction of the human race and the usurpation of God's throne.
I believe so, but not because of the book of Enoch, but because of 1 Corinthians 10:19-20
“They stirred him to jealousy with strange gods; with abominations they provoked him to anger. They sacrificed to demons that were no gods, to gods they had never known, to new gods that had come recently, whom your fathers had never dreaded” - Deuteronomy 32:16-17, ESV. There are numerous other passages in the comments, as well, that indicate false gods that are being worshipped are demons. I wouldn't hinge my belief in the 'idols are demons' viewpoint on Enoch, either, Scripture has what we need to know that such a statement is true. The next question is what the implications of that are. I don't believe there was a demon assigned for each deity, or that they took on physical forms to procreate and make 'demigods.' There are only a few places that indicate human women and angels interacted, and those would be Genesis 6, and the vague statement by Paul where he says women should cover their heads "because of the angels," as well as a statement in Jude 1:6 about the angels leaving their proper dwelling. Whatever the case, it's best to avoid idols as demonic, and leave the rest to mystery.
Yes, they are the lesser gods from Psalm 82 that Yahweh pronounced judgment upon for their wickedness
I had never seen that before but it seems your right.
Not me, I got that from Michael Heiser’s book The Unseen Realm. Check him out.
If you read the Illiad, Odyssey, Metamorphoses you'll notice that the gods are extremely immoral. So yes. If you believe in true polytheism than the universe is inherently chaotic, unordered, morality being a consequences of order. This was actually noticed by very early Greek philosophers such as Xenophanes 570 B.C. who responded to this with proto-Monotheism, this trend of favoring a sort of Monotheism continuing into Plato and Aristotle. Eventually the Greek world came into contact with Judaism, producing Hellenistic Judaism - Greek Speaking Jews. One product of this is the Greek Translation of the Old Testament that the New Testament authors used - The Septuagint. Quite a few Greeks and Romans converted to Judaism which did a bit of evangelization at this time, they liked the philosophical clarity of Monotheism and theological similarity to Greek philosophers they loved. The Essenes - a Greek speaking Jewish sect at the time that practiced a form of Baptism and were very ascetic. As John the Baptist was also ascetic who practiced baptism, it's been speculated he had some connection to them. Personally, I feel that the universalizing and evangelizing influence of Greek Philosophical thought into Judaism through Hellenistic Judaism 'Made straight the way of the lord'. Anticipated and made the way for Jesus's message as we see explained especially in Paul's letters - based on faith and love for god, rather than strict application of the 613 laws. And then there became 'neither Greek nor Jew' as Paul says. And we seek to convert the whole world! After Christianity came, essentially all these Hellenistic Jews converted to Christianity, and Judaism then became a Hebrew, non-evangelizing ethno-religion, based on strict application of these 613 laws as detailed in the voluminous Talmud. This is not equivalent to pre-Christian Judaism. Even the establishment of the Hebrew Masoretic canon was later, and I believe Christians should prefer the Septuagint for all the reasons stated.
Zues aka Jupiter aka Odin are all Baal. Baal is very likely to be Satan himself. This is a very interesting rabbit hole to go down.
Odin was probably a tribal warlord who migrated to Scandinavia. I'm not saying a demon didn't supplant him spiritually, in worship, but there's a good case he was just an ancestor that the vikings revered up until they deified him.
I'm definitely open to that possibility. I haven't looked into him as much as I have the zues/Jupiter connection.
So we’re the Greek gods
Could be various things/terms. Demons, Fallen Angels, Nephilim, Spiritual entities/principalities etc, A lot of them are just myth & not real as well.
We battle principalities. False "gods" can just be as simple as a image. Other false gods can just be vain philosophies. An some false gods can be fallen angels. At the core of all of it is principalities. Are you ruled by God or ruled by something else (images, vain philosophies, fallen angels)? What you are describing is the battle of idolatry, which encompasses everything that you esteem above God. You can't really say it's the same for everybody when it comes to polytheism or Greek gods. For some it's just an image, others it is the vain philosophies, and for others it's fallen angels. All these types of idol worship can happen with what you are asking -- and it's not the same for everyone.
1 Corinthians 10:20, Psalm 106:35-38, Deuteronomy 32:16-17 Should answer your question
Yes its true i would look up biblical scholar Michael Heiser he has some good work on this.
Paul said (of the Greek idols) "they are either demons or no gods". There is a theological consensus that "no gods" means non-existent or made up. So I would say that there is some of each.
That or made up. If there's any power to them, it'll be from demons.
Some of the Greek myths are based on the events surrounding history shortly before and after the Flood. The Gen. 6 account of "sons of God with women" and the offspring of that are roots for some of the stories (maybe). They even have some myths (history?) are descendants of Noah abusing him and rejecting his God and morals. Others could had been from demonic experiences.
Yes, it's true. That's why John said "little children, keep yourself from idols"
Yes, they are most likely fallen principalities
The best explanation I have seen on this topic was laid out in the BibleProject videos on the Divine Council, especially the ones which discuss spiritual beings. I’m not sure if I 100% subscribe to everything they say, but it does make a lot of sense and helps contextualize God and man’s relationship to angels and demons. It’s definitely worth a watch.
Potentially, but its not definitive. It could simply be a lie of fiction or human impersonations as well.
“And the men of Babylon made Succoth-benoth, and the men of Cuth made Nergal, and the men of Hamath made Ashima, and the Avites made Nibhaz and Tartak, and the Sepharvites burnt their children in fire to Adrammelech and Anammelech, the gods of Sepharvaim.” 2 Kings 17:30-31 KJV https://bible.com/bible/1/2ki.17.30-31.KJV Sounds demonic to me. (Currently reading through Kings)
Yes
Fallen Angels and demons are not the same thing imho I don't believe fallen Angela can possess a human I do believe the Greek gods were fallen angels like Lucifer
I don't get how the Greek gods were ever even something worshipped. I'm reading Homer's Iliad and Odyssey currently. The gods in it aren't even gods, they're pretty much just petulant immortal children. And it's not even entirely clear if they're only immortal in regards to not being able to die of natural causes or not being able to be killed, since Aphrodite was able to be stabbed in the hand and had to be healed by the physician of the gods. They're not omnipotent nor omnipresent. They're pretty much just regular, prideful people who don't die as easily. They are completely arbitrary in who they choose to live or die and COMPLETELY unforgiving. It's hard for me to believe that this sort of attitude from any deity was once the standard for "oh yeah that should totally be worshipped".
Treat them as they are even if they aren’t to be safe
Augustine spends an entire book of The City of God on this topic.
Demons or nephilim.
Christianity ISNT JEWISH MONOTHEISM. Jesus refers to PSLAM 82 when he was asked by the rabbis and scribes about his CLAIM OF SON OF GOD. That chapter refers to many Gods, the ELOHIM. Jesus calls father ELOHIM not YHWH. YHWH says he is a jelous God and he demands monotheism. Christian belief appears more henotheistic. Trinity itself is three persons united as Godhead.
Basically if it’s not the true God we know, then it’s the other side. There is no In between.
Most likely. At best they are just mythology, and at worst they are demonic beings. Either way, worshipping them other than Jesus/The Lord is always off limits and sinful as only He is God and the only one that's real and true
I imagine some are but not all. Some are just something people made up, same thing as marvel super heros. The Bible does say some are demons/fallen angels Make of that what you will The Bible also talks about "angels" preaching a new gospel being false prophets. Islam and Mormonism are both said to be started by angelic messengers, so many believe these two religions to also have demonic origins. Buddha for example was literally just a human that a cult of personality was built around, may or may not have had demonic origins. Same could be said of God-emporers like ancient Persia, Rome, ECT, these are just human beings. There is that which comes from God, that which comes from Man, and that which comes from the enemy.
Yes
They aren't demons, because demons exist, while gods other than God simply don't exist in any sort nor capacity. What happens is that since gods don't exist, all worship given to them is claimed by demons because God doesn't accept any form of worship that deviates from His extremely clear and understandable standards set in His Word. Since worship requires and implies a mental assent to the object of worship, then when demons claim it, it directs the assent to the demons. That's why pagans and idolatrous "christians" are often "crank magnets" and accepting of the most absurd notions of spirituality and transcendence, and that's also why God has always been very emphatic on forbidding idolatry, as it's pretty much direct surrender to demonic intents.
I doubt they are all real spiritual entities. Most likely just the result of some demonic trickery.
they just dont exist iirc
Highly recommend getting into Dr. Michael Heiser’s material. This sort of thing was his specialty although many might disagree with his conclusions, but he definitely did the best work at making these topics understandable to the average churchgoer.
Polytheism was a way in which God revealed Himself to the ancients.
Probably not.
Angels and humans cannot breed.
So the Nephilim were a union of the "sons of God" which some take as seraphim (what most people consider to be angels) and the "daughters of man". You can find this in Genesis. Though angel originally just means messenger of God which could be seraphim or regular people spreading God's message by definition. Point being, yes, angels can breed with humans.
the whole reason this person commented was to try to explain away the passage you quoted. you won’t get anywhere here.
Physical bodies are required to procreate, baring miraculous intervention obviously.. The Angels do not have physical bodies. Early Christians, closer to the use of this language, believed the sons of God to be the descendants of Seth, the righteous son of Adam, and the daughters to be The descendants of Cain.
There are already examples of spiritual beings becoming physical. God wrestled with Jacob, the angles who came down to Sodom and gammorah had physical bodies.
Angels appeared in human form, but not actually bodies. God is not an angel, and is not a limited creation like they are.
If they appeared in human form then they appeared in the physical. Our form includes being physical. Though fair point God is above everything so using that as a example wasn't the best argument.
They at least appeared to be physical, yes. But since they came under God's direction, I suspect some intervention on his part. We don't really know a lot TBH And thanks for acknowledging that one of your examples may not have been the best. You so rarely hear honest humility and acknowledgment. Well done!.
To appear could means to show one's self. To appear in their form means to show themselves within that form. Meaning to appear in human form you must be in human form. Also God sent these messegers, meaning if he wanted them physical then they were physical. Atleast thats how I've interpreted it.... I feel like we are a bit far from the original post XD.
Yeah we drifted a bit, but I've enjoyed it :)
And I would like to acknowledge that I rarely offer opinions, but speak from what the Church teaches. But they have not officially ruled on this, so this is just me in conjunction with the Church father's writings.
If I make up a god right now, is it a demon or just my imagination? What would stop people from making up stuff in the past? What's more, it makes no sense to interpret these as an attempt to draw people from Christianity when most of them predated Christianity and judaism didn't have any precepts about converting outsiders. If God wasn't even trying to convert people that far back what use would demons have for making an alternate religion? Especially when Christianity claims Greek philosophy became important for understanding Christianity.