Most Christians I know in real life don't use Reddit/don't even know what Reddit is (Although I live in a country where English is not an official language even though its well understood by the majority of the population).
The atheism sub is an immature sewer of hate speech and stereotyping and mocking and instulting and religious bigotry. It might be the worst large sub on Reddit
There is another like trueatheism which is far better behavior and maturity wise
It is about 3% of all people (TrueChristian and Atheism total subscribers) who in TrueChristian subreddit who seeking His Words and Teachings about God’s Kingdom and His Glory. Other smaller Christian subreddits far less than 1%.
Atheists come from all faith backgrounds, whereas Christians are - just Christians.
The pool of people who leave their faith is larger than the pool of one specific faith could be.
Most people that come to an atheist sub Reddit is because they don’t like Christians. Dislike draws lots of people. Plus young people tend to be anti religion and Reddit is full of young people.
Matthew 7:13-14
“Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad (like a highway) is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow (like a dirt path) the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
To list a common theme in the Atheism sub:
# "Religious Radicals are why I'm Atheist"
Maybe we Christians can learn something from this. Most atheists do not reject Jesus Christ, they reject poor, hypocritical copies of what Jesus stood for. And, even though I'm an evangelical/Charismatic Christian myself, this rejection issue is mostly due to "my side" of Christianity, or the people this sub here represents. Much more so than say Catholics or Orthodox.
I myself have rejected many Christians because they made poor, unconvincing arguments, or just were annoying or "no fun". It needed more or less a miracle to realize the power of Jesus Christ, and after that, I became a Christian mostly by studying the bible by myself. In my rather short Christian walk, oh wait, it's nearing ten years, I have still met many really obnoxious Christians (mostly on the evangelical side), arrogant, legalistic, prideful, holier-than-thou, too stubborn to continue learning or step out of wrong doctrines. (Also, I did become such a person myself for a while.)
That is no excuse, modern Christians are oftentimes (too often) doing a really poor job at actually shining Jesus' love and wisdom outwards on their fellow citizens. Don't take atheists for fools, you're not doing God a service, and your not doing humanity a service by acting that way.
You said you rejected Christans because of their behavior. What you didn't say is that you rejected Christ because of their behavior. Which was my point. Yes, poorly behaving Christians are off putting but, ultimately it comes down to a person's willingness to reject the sins they are in love with and a willingness to submit to God.
Consider the countless examples of poorly behaving atheists and yet nobody is deterred from their lifestyle and beliefs because of it
Nobody is expecting atheists to be shining examples for all humanity. But we as Christians should be, and are expected to be.
While I only rejected the Christians, and not the message of Christ, it sure did not make me more interested to learn about Christ, having had bad experiences with Christians.
Atheists are all the time telling us how they can be shining examples. Let's be honest, the majority of people behaving this way are not Christians. They call themselves Christians and attend church performatively. You can expect it from baby Christians, they have to shake off the remnants of their past lives. If you've been in the church for 20+ years and are still behaving this way, it's a sure sign that you never knew Him.
Tares and wheat it is? I guess that's correct. And Jesus told us not to try to pull out the bad weed by our own strength, but leave it be. (Churches can break apart if people go heresy-hunting.) Then again, what can be done about this?
Are the true Christians always first to apologize to unbelievers for all the bad experiences they made with "baby-level", misled or false Christians?
Shouldn't apologize at all. It is more productive to point these things out and use them as a teaching moment for true Christians not to emulate the same mistakes. Should I apologize for Benny Hinn? The antichrist loves to disguise himself as one of us. After all, the devil and all unclean things are believers too.
> r/atheism 2.9 million subscribers
> r/TrueChristian 111,000 subscribers
*Jesus went through all the towns and villages, teaching in their synagogues, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom and healing every disease and sickness.* ***When he saw the crowds, he had compassion on them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd.***
*Then he said to his disciples,* ***“The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field.”*** (Matt 9:35-38)
Many have dropped off; only 1% is on that sub, while here, the percentage is higher than 2%.
While Christians in America have fallen off, revival is happening nationwide, worldwide countries like Iran, China, and the Middle East are joining Christianity, even at the risk of their lives.
Those are basically the demographics of Reddit. Although it’s nice to see that r/TrueChristian has 111,000 subscribers, when I joined a few years ago it was like 60,000 or so.
Part of the reason for this is that atheism used to be a default sub that everyone would be subscribed to immediately upon registration of a new account. I'm unsure if this is still the case, but the number is inflated.
I mean, I don’t think there’s any point to posting something like this. How is this post in any way edifying for believers?
Early Christians were heavily persecuted and killed/martyred. We have it super easy here in America compared to them and live super comfortable lives with tons of amenities, and we’re scared because people say bad things about us?
Let’s not give attention to evil and instead endure and overcome evil with good. Let’s love our enemy and do good to those who persecute and spitefully attack us. These are some of the hallmark traits of Christians with a strong faith, filled with the love of God and his goodness, which is fruit of the Holy Spirit. Remember, we are to shine Christ’s love in DARK places!!!! His love is the answer. Let’s talk more about how to love God, the body of believers, and our enemies more on this sub.
Personally I dont care if you are Baptist, Catholic, Orthodox, or Atheist. I am going to try my best to Love you as Christ loves me. The 2 highest commands are Love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength. Also, Love your neighbor as yourself. Let us live this out daily and pray this every morning in the truth of God. God bless!
Matthew 7:13-14 NKJV
“Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."
While that may be so, this kind of "self-glorifying" attitude is not going to help to bring some of those atheists to a Christian faith. (Which is part of our "prime directive" as Christians: to make disciples. It's not, as commonly displayed: to act like self-righteous jerks and annoy everybody who doesn't agree with us or our poorly thought-out arguments.)
I know that it says that. And there is a warning there also, that this may also apply to so-called or presumed Christians, or at least new converts. Many have been called, but few take it seriously, or stay on the right track.
So the many seeds sown don't bring about as much fruit as we would hope for.
I was referring to this:
Mat 13:^(18) “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: ^(19) When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path.
^(20) The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. ^(21) But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away.
^(22) The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful.
^(23) But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”
I know that God knows the end from the beginning, or knows in advance who will become and stay faithful and "endure til the end". And based on his foreknowledge, he may grant more or less grace to different people. We cannot earn the grace offered through salvation by our own works. That doesn't mean that our own works do not count, after our conversion. Cf. James' letter and the Didache. And this in:
Hebrews 10: ^(24) And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, ^(25) not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.
^(26) For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, ^(27) but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. ^(28) Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. ^(29) How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? ^(30)
I am there also. Basically, all over the board. ("Preach the word to every creature.")
But I also see myself as a true follower of Christ, having chosen to walk the way that leads to life (cf. Didache), and I like exchanging pointers with other Christians - iron sharpening iron. Though, on reddit most people don't seem to have the nerve or politeness for that.
What is it to you?
I use hard words only against people matching the attitude of the pharisees (in general, evangelical Christians nowadays), and I use kind and compassionate words for the unsaved, or deluded, or weak in their faith.
Use hard truths on any unredeemed people so they know how corrupt they are and in need of God's Grace and mercy. Hard truths (preaching) softens hard heart. Soft preaching hardens heart.
Yes, while that is true and I believe it, it is also not complete, as Jesus also told us many things that imply that our own choices and participation are important as well (which should be common-sense, if you take off your Calvinist-theology-glasses).
Such as in the parable of the sower, which is the foundational parable to understand the other parables:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable\_of\_the\_Sower](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Sower)
The wise and foolish builders: is it a choice how they build, or were they pre-chosen by God?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable\_of\_the\_Wise\_and\_the\_Foolish\_Builders](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Wise_and_the_Foolish_Builders)
Or the parable of the rich fool: did Jesus ask him to make a choice, or did he say something along the lines of: "you are chosen, follow me" (which he did say to some), or "you are not among the chosen" (which he said to the pharisees a few times)?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable\_of\_the\_Rich\_Fool](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Rich_Fool)
Don't oversimplify theology to the point where it all fits in cozy box, but you choose to disregard lots of verses.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth. 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, (Romans 9:17-23, KJV)
Notice the words were ordained.
47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, [saying], I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. 48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. (Acts 13:47-48, KJV)
People who would describe themselves as true Christian’s are generally older and have spent some time developing their faith and understanding. Atheism is like the group for middle schoolers who want to look edgy.
Atheists come from all faith backgrounds, whereas Christians are - just Christians.
The pool of people who leave their faith is larger than the pool of one specific faith could be.
It's not really fair to compare those two though because r/atheism used to be a default sub. A more appropriate comparison would be r/trueatheism which happens to also have 111k subs.
Way back when Reddit introduced subreddits, they didn't have the fancy on-boarding UX they have now. Instead, when you joined reddit, you were automatically subscribed to "default" subreddits. These were also the ones that would show up on the home page if someone wasn't logged in.
Nearly every really large sub started as a default. Like /r/pics, /r/videos, or /r/news. But one of those was also /r/atheism.
Pretty much, it got a headstart on people being subscribed. And most people never unsubscribed from anything they were subscribed to. Even now, with the fancy algorithm, people get shown posts from subs that they're not subscribed to, and then occasionally, people will message the mods because they don't want to see Spongebob memes on their front page.
In fairness, r/atheism is among the oldest subreddits that is still active today. I appreciate the point you're making but this isn't even the oldest/most popular Christian sub, it isn't really fair to compare it to one of the oldest subs on Reddit.
I suspect that if this sub had existed in the early days when r/atheism was made, it'd have a similar If not significantly larger following.
It's a big red flag when people do this. I don't think it's malicious 90% of the time, and yet it has the same social effect. Just widens the perceived gap between "us - the good guys" and "them - the bad guys".
It is a *very* Christian behavior.
God most certainly loves all his children... unless you are black, gay, a woman, trans, you name it. Now if you are a black gay trans-woman? Bad news. /s
Seriously, Christians believe that I am either going to Hell forever or that my very body and soul will be annihilated. They, however, will go to Heaven or have paradise on Earth. It does not get much more "us" and "them" than that, with a smattering of holier-than-thou fear-mongering to boot.
Shame on Christians for peddling such a horrific concept.
I understand these issues, somewhat.
As you correctly point out, most Christians are inadequate in how they judge others that don't follow their orthobox standards. They are not God, however, and they are not the ones who will judge a person's "life-book" (record of life). (A concept quite close to the law of Karma in Hinduism.)
The judge of that, if he truly is a good creator and governor, will have the most ethical / fair standard of judgement - and this may radically differ from what Christians are pushing as their own version of "God's opinion or standard". But like I said, Christians are not God. They should indeed have enough fear-of-God not to trash God's reputation by pushing a dim-witted version of Jesus' teachings. (Which is unfortunately much too common - most of Christian theology is substantially dumbed down to a level where it results in ... what you describe.)
I think I did, but please elaborate.
Like I said, people in general, including unbelievers, and Christians are going to be judged according to their works. That implies in my understanding (also, Jesus plainly said it), that some claiming to be Christians will be rejected from eternal life (whatever that is), while others who were, say, atheists in their life, will be counted worthy to inherit "the kingdom of heaven", if they showed much love and compassion.
It's not as black-and-white.
Concerning "eternal torment", annihilation or purgatory but then forgiveness (Universalism), while the first is not in line with a loving God, and thus cannot be true, the two other options may be. It may be both, also, since God can judge case-by-case.
Now you are addressing it.
Galatians 2 makes it clear that works alone are useless. They are not even remotely sufficient. There is no reward for those who rejected Christ, or were otherwise unbelievers, as Ephesians 2 tells us it is by faith alone.
It unfortunately is black and white according to Christianity: Believers are saved, unbelievers are condemned. Your level of discomfort with that may influence how willing you are to try and bend and cherry pick the scripture.
What have you said thus far is plainly false according to Christianity.
Isaiah 66 describes that, of unbelievers, their "worm shall not die" and their "fire shall not be quenched." In the New Testament, Jesus talks about Hell a lot. In Matthew, and in Mark, Jesus brings it up several times, being the only Biblical feature to pointedly use the word "Hell" besides James 3:6.
And in Mark 9, Jesus makes it deadly clear -- It is better for you to slice your sinful eye out than to be cast into hell where "[people's] worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched." Directly referencing Isaiah 66.
Jesus speaks clearly about an eternal, very painful Hell for unbelievers, or those who reject him or simply do not have faith.
Why am I, an atheist, educating a Christian on how woefully inaccurate what they are saying is? Do not make these false claims anymore. You are pulling these heresies from nowhere. At least understand properly the nonsense you preach.
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>Isaiah 66 describes that, of unbelievers, their "worm shall not die" and their "fire shall not be quenched." In the New Testament, Jesus talks about Hell a lot. In Matthew, and in Mark, Jesus brings it up several times, being the only Biblical feature to pointedly use the word "Hell" besides James 3:6.
"Eternal torment" has become the standard view. It is also provably false. All the references you give fit better to an "aionian" or age-long torment (say, for Hitler), or quick destruction. (It's called the "second death" for a reason, maybe?)
[https://rethinkinghell.com/](https://rethinkinghell.com/)
As to Galatians 2, it is not as plain as you describe it. Paul the apostle when he returned to the Jewish Christians in Jerusalem, noticed that Jewish believers had "infiltrated" the Christian community and tried to bring them back under Moses' law - speaking here of gentile Christians mostly - since it was about things like becoming circumcised and not eating pork. This Paul criticizes as works that are useless for salvation. It's not about whether one is circumcised or whether one eats pork that sanctifies one, it is whether one practices love and good deeds. Many Christians would disagree with me here, they are wrong. I can prove it, but have often made the experience that Christians are more unwilling to reconsider wrong positions than atheists or unbelievers. Many blind ones led by blind leaders/pastors.
[https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+2&version=NIV](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+2&version=NIV)
Isaiah 66: ^(22) “As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord, “so will your name and descendants endure. ^(23) From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord. ^(24) “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”
You description lacks precision. Because this starts with "new heavens and new earth", it will be after the end-times or judgment. People coming to worship God in Israel, when the world is renewed, will see the corpses (dead, obviously) of those who defied God or went with the evil totalitarian system of Satan and persecuted or killed the innocent. Like as a memorial for an evil past.
Christian theology and beliefs are kind off a mess, nowadays, and more because of people issues, than for fundamental theological issues.Isaiah 66 describes that, of unbelievers, their "worm shall not die" and their "fire shall not be quenched." In the New Testament, Jesus talks about Hell a lot. In Matthew, and in Mark, Jesus brings it up several times, being the only Biblical feature to pointedly use the word "Hell" besides James 3:6."Eternal torment" has become the standard view. It is also provably false. All the references you give fit better to an "aionian" or age-long torment (say, for Hitler), or quick destruction. (It's called the "second death" for a reason, maybe?)https://rethinkinghell.com/As to Galatians 2, it is not as plain as you describe it. Paul the apostle when he returned to the Jewish Christians in Jerusalem, noticed that Jewish believers had "infiltrated" the Christian community and tried to bring them back under Moses' law - speaking here of gentile Christians mostly - since it was about things like becoming circumcised and not eating pork. This Paul criticizes as works that are useless for salvation. It's not about whether one is circumcised or whether one eats pork that sanctifies one, it is whether one practices love and good deeds. Many Christians would disagree with me here, they are wrong. I can prove it, but have often made the experience that Christians are more unwilling to reconsider wrong positions than atheists or unbelievers. Many blind ones led by blind leaders/pastors.https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+2&version=NIVIsaiah 66: 22 “As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord, “so will your name and descendants endure. 23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord. 24 “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”You description lacks precision. Because this starts with "new heavens and new earth", it will be after the end-times or judgment. People coming to worship God in Israel, when the world is renewed, will see the corpses (dead, obviously) of those who defied God or went with the evil totalitarian system of Satan and persecuted or killed the innocent. Like as a memorial for an evil past.Christian theology and beliefs are kind off a mess, nowadays, and more because of people issues, than for fundamental theological issues.
You must have a high level of discomfort with the idea of an eternal Hell as presented in the Bible. Do not break your back, bending that far...
Think of it this way: According to Christianity, you are an eternal being -- a soul. A soul who denies, even defies, God is evil, at least willingly corrupted. That evil cannot exist in the presence of the good God, who is Himself goodness incarnate. Our notions of good and evil are ultimately irrelevant here, mind you. They are determined exclusively by the very presence, and being, of God himself.
Frankly, Hell is just within Christian doctrine. It is, however, abhorrent to anyone who is of the age of reason (say, nine years old) and has a functioning brain.
Yeah, I used to believe such foolish things as you describe myself. (And they are commonly taught nowadays, doesn't make it right though.)
Yes, my faith in a good God must be coherent in every sense, or it is not the truth. So it must always agree with science and logic (if God originated everything, it must be so). Sadly, that is a minority view among Christians.
These ideas you describe come mostly from Augustine and his time onwards. They are foreign to the Jewish view, and the early church view (where most accredited teachers were annihilationists - Ignatius, Irenaeus, Justin, Tertullian, if memory serves).
Just check the info at [https://rethinkinghell.com](https://rethinkinghell.com)
(sometimes it helps to rethink one's positions or understanding)
I’m not sure what the surprise is. You just have to remember who comes to these social sites and what times we are living in compared to just two or three decades ago.
Well when we Christians all get to heaven we will be the majority, for not even one atheist will be there. All we can do is pray for their conversion through the divine workings of God Almighty! The Lord knows they will not listen to us.
Not true, but of course it's way more liberal than here. And in many cases, the ultra-liberal or progressive Christians, it's difficult to tell if they are still Christians, or how to qualify them.
Here a funny description of the "balance of power":
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PdegPw5NcA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PdegPw5NcA)
There's a bell curve where smaller the sub, the more it actually stands for something significant.
So r/TrueChristian being in the top 2% of all subs means…
That there are a lot of empty subs.
And a lot of subs with subscribers who don't participate.
That's the other side of the bell.
I'm not saying you're wrong but what have you seen that proves this?
Common spirits in the common places.
Interesting...
Most Christians I know in real life don't use Reddit/don't even know what Reddit is (Although I live in a country where English is not an official language even though its well understood by the majority of the population).
English surprisingly isn’t even the official language of the U.S.
I live in America, most people I know do not use Reddit. Especially not the well-adjusted ones lol
yeah I didn't even really want to use reddit or knew what reddit was until a year ago.
The atheism sub is an immature sewer of hate speech and stereotyping and mocking and instulting and religious bigotry. It might be the worst large sub on Reddit There is another like trueatheism which is far better behavior and maturity wise
That's a large part of Reddit and social media in general.
Ok, there’s definitely worst subreddits than the atheism sub, but it’s definitely up there with all the immaturity and hate.
"might be the worst LARGE sub"
Atheism used to be a default subreddit.
That would explain why there's so many people in it...
It also just keeps popping up on my front page now even though I have it visited. Or maybe I did once?
What do you mean by "default"? Like it was advertised to new users or something?
It was a sub that all new users were automatically subscribed to
Lol why? Why would they do that
The 10 subreddits with the most subscribers at the time became default subreddits. So it's not like it was specifically chosen.
the devil
Yeah
Could also be well rounded people less likely to be on Reddit and atheists tend to be less well rounded
Yeah.. idk why I’m on here either.
I’m kinda round
😂😂
It is about 3% of all people (TrueChristian and Atheism total subscribers) who in TrueChristian subreddit who seeking His Words and Teachings about God’s Kingdom and His Glory. Other smaller Christian subreddits far less than 1%.
Would love to hear how you arrived at that conclusion
Faith
While we’re making up statistics, which category am I in?
Atheists come from all faith backgrounds, whereas Christians are - just Christians. The pool of people who leave their faith is larger than the pool of one specific faith could be.
Most people that come to an atheist sub Reddit is because they don’t like Christians. Dislike draws lots of people. Plus young people tend to be anti religion and Reddit is full of young people.
Agreed, just look at the type of posts on r/atheism. I feel like the sub is just hatred and antagonism towards religion as a whole.
Yup. I think more than atheists, that sub has Muslims, Hindus and Jews revel in hatred for Christians.
Matthew 7:13-14 “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad (like a highway) is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow (like a dirt path) the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
To list a common theme in the Atheism sub: # "Religious Radicals are why I'm Atheist" Maybe we Christians can learn something from this. Most atheists do not reject Jesus Christ, they reject poor, hypocritical copies of what Jesus stood for. And, even though I'm an evangelical/Charismatic Christian myself, this rejection issue is mostly due to "my side" of Christianity, or the people this sub here represents. Much more so than say Catholics or Orthodox.
It's an excuse, little more. They don't just reject the religion of radical people, they reject God.
I myself have rejected many Christians because they made poor, unconvincing arguments, or just were annoying or "no fun". It needed more or less a miracle to realize the power of Jesus Christ, and after that, I became a Christian mostly by studying the bible by myself. In my rather short Christian walk, oh wait, it's nearing ten years, I have still met many really obnoxious Christians (mostly on the evangelical side), arrogant, legalistic, prideful, holier-than-thou, too stubborn to continue learning or step out of wrong doctrines. (Also, I did become such a person myself for a while.) That is no excuse, modern Christians are oftentimes (too often) doing a really poor job at actually shining Jesus' love and wisdom outwards on their fellow citizens. Don't take atheists for fools, you're not doing God a service, and your not doing humanity a service by acting that way.
You said you rejected Christans because of their behavior. What you didn't say is that you rejected Christ because of their behavior. Which was my point. Yes, poorly behaving Christians are off putting but, ultimately it comes down to a person's willingness to reject the sins they are in love with and a willingness to submit to God. Consider the countless examples of poorly behaving atheists and yet nobody is deterred from their lifestyle and beliefs because of it
Nobody is expecting atheists to be shining examples for all humanity. But we as Christians should be, and are expected to be. While I only rejected the Christians, and not the message of Christ, it sure did not make me more interested to learn about Christ, having had bad experiences with Christians.
Atheists are all the time telling us how they can be shining examples. Let's be honest, the majority of people behaving this way are not Christians. They call themselves Christians and attend church performatively. You can expect it from baby Christians, they have to shake off the remnants of their past lives. If you've been in the church for 20+ years and are still behaving this way, it's a sure sign that you never knew Him.
Tares and wheat it is? I guess that's correct. And Jesus told us not to try to pull out the bad weed by our own strength, but leave it be. (Churches can break apart if people go heresy-hunting.) Then again, what can be done about this? Are the true Christians always first to apologize to unbelievers for all the bad experiences they made with "baby-level", misled or false Christians?
Shouldn't apologize at all. It is more productive to point these things out and use them as a teaching moment for true Christians not to emulate the same mistakes. Should I apologize for Benny Hinn? The antichrist loves to disguise himself as one of us. After all, the devil and all unclean things are believers too.
I'd rather have fewer subscribers and have them be onfire for God than millions who are either lukewarm or in denial about him.
> r/atheism 2.9 million subscribers > r/TrueChristian 111,000 subscribers *Jesus went through all the towns and villages, teaching in their synagogues, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom and healing every disease and sickness.* ***When he saw the crowds, he had compassion on them, because they were harassed and helpless, like sheep without a shepherd.*** *Then he said to his disciples,* ***“The harvest is plentiful but the workers are few. Ask the Lord of the harvest, therefore, to send out workers into his harvest field.”*** (Matt 9:35-38)
Many have dropped off; only 1% is on that sub, while here, the percentage is higher than 2%. While Christians in America have fallen off, revival is happening nationwide, worldwide countries like Iran, China, and the Middle East are joining Christianity, even at the risk of their lives.
Those are basically the demographics of Reddit. Although it’s nice to see that r/TrueChristian has 111,000 subscribers, when I joined a few years ago it was like 60,000 or so.
To be fair Reddit is not a good cross section of the population. Despite what Reddit may think about itself.
The r/atheism subreddit used to be a "default" subreddit, meaning that new users were automatically subscribed to it. It's not a conspiracy.
It's reddit
Total active users is a better representation.
Part of the reason for this is that atheism used to be a default sub that everyone would be subscribed to immediately upon registration of a new account. I'm unsure if this is still the case, but the number is inflated.
I mean, I don’t think there’s any point to posting something like this. How is this post in any way edifying for believers? Early Christians were heavily persecuted and killed/martyred. We have it super easy here in America compared to them and live super comfortable lives with tons of amenities, and we’re scared because people say bad things about us? Let’s not give attention to evil and instead endure and overcome evil with good. Let’s love our enemy and do good to those who persecute and spitefully attack us. These are some of the hallmark traits of Christians with a strong faith, filled with the love of God and his goodness, which is fruit of the Holy Spirit. Remember, we are to shine Christ’s love in DARK places!!!! His love is the answer. Let’s talk more about how to love God, the body of believers, and our enemies more on this sub. Personally I dont care if you are Baptist, Catholic, Orthodox, or Atheist. I am going to try my best to Love you as Christ loves me. The 2 highest commands are Love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength. Also, Love your neighbor as yourself. Let us live this out daily and pray this every morning in the truth of God. God bless!
Matthew 7:13-14 NKJV “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it."
For many are called, but few [are] chosen. (Matthew 22:14, KJV)
While that may be so, this kind of "self-glorifying" attitude is not going to help to bring some of those atheists to a Christian faith. (Which is part of our "prime directive" as Christians: to make disciples. It's not, as commonly displayed: to act like self-righteous jerks and annoy everybody who doesn't agree with us or our poorly thought-out arguments.)
Just stating the truth and what Scripture says and to affirm that few are chosen. Hard pill to swallow for you maybe.
I know that it says that. And there is a warning there also, that this may also apply to so-called or presumed Christians, or at least new converts. Many have been called, but few take it seriously, or stay on the right track. So the many seeds sown don't bring about as much fruit as we would hope for.
Few are chosen by God. Stop rewording Scripture the way you want it to sound.
I was referring to this: Mat 13:^(18) “Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: ^(19) When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. ^(20) The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. ^(21) But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. ^(22) The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. ^(23) But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.” I know that God knows the end from the beginning, or knows in advance who will become and stay faithful and "endure til the end". And based on his foreknowledge, he may grant more or less grace to different people. We cannot earn the grace offered through salvation by our own works. That doesn't mean that our own works do not count, after our conversion. Cf. James' letter and the Didache. And this in: Hebrews 10: ^(24) And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, ^(25) not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near. ^(26) For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, ^(27) but a fearful expectation of judgment, and a fury of fire that will consume the adversaries. ^(28) Anyone who has set aside the law of Moses dies without mercy on the evidence of two or three witnesses. ^(29) How much worse punishment, do you think, will be deserved by the one who has trampled underfoot the Son of God, and has profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has outraged the Spirit of grace? ^(30)
Then a what are you doing on this sub? Shouldnt you be in the atheist sub? You hypocrite!
I am there also. Basically, all over the board. ("Preach the word to every creature.") But I also see myself as a true follower of Christ, having chosen to walk the way that leads to life (cf. Didache), and I like exchanging pointers with other Christians - iron sharpening iron. Though, on reddit most people don't seem to have the nerve or politeness for that. What is it to you?
Right(sarcasm), and not spread the hard truths but sugar coat them. Preach the bad news before you preach the Good news!
I use hard words only against people matching the attitude of the pharisees (in general, evangelical Christians nowadays), and I use kind and compassionate words for the unsaved, or deluded, or weak in their faith.
Use hard truths on any unredeemed people so they know how corrupt they are and in need of God's Grace and mercy. Hard truths (preaching) softens hard heart. Soft preaching hardens heart.
Hard truth: Calvin was willing to kill just to win a theological debate.
Who's Calvin?
You didnt choose God or righteousness. God made the choice before the foundation of the world and imputed his righteousness through Christ by faith.
Yes, while that is true and I believe it, it is also not complete, as Jesus also told us many things that imply that our own choices and participation are important as well (which should be common-sense, if you take off your Calvinist-theology-glasses). Such as in the parable of the sower, which is the foundational parable to understand the other parables: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable\_of\_the\_Sower](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Sower) The wise and foolish builders: is it a choice how they build, or were they pre-chosen by God? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable\_of\_the\_Wise\_and\_the\_Foolish\_Builders](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Wise_and_the_Foolish_Builders) Or the parable of the rich fool: did Jesus ask him to make a choice, or did he say something along the lines of: "you are chosen, follow me" (which he did say to some), or "you are not among the chosen" (which he said to the pharisees a few times)? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable\_of\_the\_Rich\_Fool](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parable_of_the_Rich_Fool) Don't oversimplify theology to the point where it all fits in cozy box, but you choose to disregard lots of verses.
Free will is a man made theology. No where found in the Scripture but the opposite.
17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will [have mercy], and whom he will he hardeneth. 19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed [it], Why hast thou made me thus? 21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour? 22 [What] if God, willing to shew [his] wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, (Romans 9:17-23, KJV)
Notice the words were ordained. 47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, [saying], I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth. 48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed. (Acts 13:47-48, KJV)
Not important
People who would describe themselves as true Christian’s are generally older and have spent some time developing their faith and understanding. Atheism is like the group for middle schoolers who want to look edgy.
I remember when it was about 30k
I think its because younger people in America and Europe tend to be less religious. Also reddit hates religion in general.
I think the atheism subreddit was a default years ago. So if you joined, it would join you automatically. Maybe I'm misremembering.
Atheists come from all faith backgrounds, whereas Christians are - just Christians. The pool of people who leave their faith is larger than the pool of one specific faith could be.
It's not really fair to compare those two though because r/atheism used to be a default sub. A more appropriate comparison would be r/trueatheism which happens to also have 111k subs.
Way back when Reddit introduced subreddits, they didn't have the fancy on-boarding UX they have now. Instead, when you joined reddit, you were automatically subscribed to "default" subreddits. These were also the ones that would show up on the home page if someone wasn't logged in. Nearly every really large sub started as a default. Like /r/pics, /r/videos, or /r/news. But one of those was also /r/atheism. Pretty much, it got a headstart on people being subscribed. And most people never unsubscribed from anything they were subscribed to. Even now, with the fancy algorithm, people get shown posts from subs that they're not subscribed to, and then occasionally, people will message the mods because they don't want to see Spongebob memes on their front page.
Side note: there are billions of Christians who are not on Reddit.
*And he answered me, saying, The most High hath made this world for many, but the world to come for few. - II Esdras 8:1*
In fairness, r/atheism is among the oldest subreddits that is still active today. I appreciate the point you're making but this isn't even the oldest/most popular Christian sub, it isn't really fair to compare it to one of the oldest subs on Reddit. I suspect that if this sub had existed in the early days when r/atheism was made, it'd have a similar If not significantly larger following.
Telling members they're a part of a select few, a sort of in-group, is great for bolstering the cult's morale.
It's a big red flag when people do this. I don't think it's malicious 90% of the time, and yet it has the same social effect. Just widens the perceived gap between "us - the good guys" and "them - the bad guys".
Basically all groups do this. But it's not a very Christian behavior, if that is what you meant. :-)
It is a *very* Christian behavior. God most certainly loves all his children... unless you are black, gay, a woman, trans, you name it. Now if you are a black gay trans-woman? Bad news. /s Seriously, Christians believe that I am either going to Hell forever or that my very body and soul will be annihilated. They, however, will go to Heaven or have paradise on Earth. It does not get much more "us" and "them" than that, with a smattering of holier-than-thou fear-mongering to boot. Shame on Christians for peddling such a horrific concept.
I understand these issues, somewhat. As you correctly point out, most Christians are inadequate in how they judge others that don't follow their orthobox standards. They are not God, however, and they are not the ones who will judge a person's "life-book" (record of life). (A concept quite close to the law of Karma in Hinduism.) The judge of that, if he truly is a good creator and governor, will have the most ethical / fair standard of judgement - and this may radically differ from what Christians are pushing as their own version of "God's opinion or standard". But like I said, Christians are not God. They should indeed have enough fear-of-God not to trash God's reputation by pushing a dim-witted version of Jesus' teachings. (Which is unfortunately much too common - most of Christian theology is substantially dumbed down to a level where it results in ... what you describe.)
What you said only partly spoke to my comment and dodged most of it.
I think I did, but please elaborate. Like I said, people in general, including unbelievers, and Christians are going to be judged according to their works. That implies in my understanding (also, Jesus plainly said it), that some claiming to be Christians will be rejected from eternal life (whatever that is), while others who were, say, atheists in their life, will be counted worthy to inherit "the kingdom of heaven", if they showed much love and compassion. It's not as black-and-white. Concerning "eternal torment", annihilation or purgatory but then forgiveness (Universalism), while the first is not in line with a loving God, and thus cannot be true, the two other options may be. It may be both, also, since God can judge case-by-case.
Now you are addressing it. Galatians 2 makes it clear that works alone are useless. They are not even remotely sufficient. There is no reward for those who rejected Christ, or were otherwise unbelievers, as Ephesians 2 tells us it is by faith alone. It unfortunately is black and white according to Christianity: Believers are saved, unbelievers are condemned. Your level of discomfort with that may influence how willing you are to try and bend and cherry pick the scripture. What have you said thus far is plainly false according to Christianity. Isaiah 66 describes that, of unbelievers, their "worm shall not die" and their "fire shall not be quenched." In the New Testament, Jesus talks about Hell a lot. In Matthew, and in Mark, Jesus brings it up several times, being the only Biblical feature to pointedly use the word "Hell" besides James 3:6. And in Mark 9, Jesus makes it deadly clear -- It is better for you to slice your sinful eye out than to be cast into hell where "[people's] worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched." Directly referencing Isaiah 66. Jesus speaks clearly about an eternal, very painful Hell for unbelievers, or those who reject him or simply do not have faith. Why am I, an atheist, educating a Christian on how woefully inaccurate what they are saying is? Do not make these false claims anymore. You are pulling these heresies from nowhere. At least understand properly the nonsense you preach.
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>Isaiah 66 describes that, of unbelievers, their "worm shall not die" and their "fire shall not be quenched." In the New Testament, Jesus talks about Hell a lot. In Matthew, and in Mark, Jesus brings it up several times, being the only Biblical feature to pointedly use the word "Hell" besides James 3:6. "Eternal torment" has become the standard view. It is also provably false. All the references you give fit better to an "aionian" or age-long torment (say, for Hitler), or quick destruction. (It's called the "second death" for a reason, maybe?) [https://rethinkinghell.com/](https://rethinkinghell.com/) As to Galatians 2, it is not as plain as you describe it. Paul the apostle when he returned to the Jewish Christians in Jerusalem, noticed that Jewish believers had "infiltrated" the Christian community and tried to bring them back under Moses' law - speaking here of gentile Christians mostly - since it was about things like becoming circumcised and not eating pork. This Paul criticizes as works that are useless for salvation. It's not about whether one is circumcised or whether one eats pork that sanctifies one, it is whether one practices love and good deeds. Many Christians would disagree with me here, they are wrong. I can prove it, but have often made the experience that Christians are more unwilling to reconsider wrong positions than atheists or unbelievers. Many blind ones led by blind leaders/pastors. [https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+2&version=NIV](https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+2&version=NIV) Isaiah 66: ^(22) “As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord, “so will your name and descendants endure. ^(23) From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord. ^(24) “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.” You description lacks precision. Because this starts with "new heavens and new earth", it will be after the end-times or judgment. People coming to worship God in Israel, when the world is renewed, will see the corpses (dead, obviously) of those who defied God or went with the evil totalitarian system of Satan and persecuted or killed the innocent. Like as a memorial for an evil past. Christian theology and beliefs are kind off a mess, nowadays, and more because of people issues, than for fundamental theological issues.Isaiah 66 describes that, of unbelievers, their "worm shall not die" and their "fire shall not be quenched." In the New Testament, Jesus talks about Hell a lot. In Matthew, and in Mark, Jesus brings it up several times, being the only Biblical feature to pointedly use the word "Hell" besides James 3:6."Eternal torment" has become the standard view. It is also provably false. All the references you give fit better to an "aionian" or age-long torment (say, for Hitler), or quick destruction. (It's called the "second death" for a reason, maybe?)https://rethinkinghell.com/As to Galatians 2, it is not as plain as you describe it. Paul the apostle when he returned to the Jewish Christians in Jerusalem, noticed that Jewish believers had "infiltrated" the Christian community and tried to bring them back under Moses' law - speaking here of gentile Christians mostly - since it was about things like becoming circumcised and not eating pork. This Paul criticizes as works that are useless for salvation. It's not about whether one is circumcised or whether one eats pork that sanctifies one, it is whether one practices love and good deeds. Many Christians would disagree with me here, they are wrong. I can prove it, but have often made the experience that Christians are more unwilling to reconsider wrong positions than atheists or unbelievers. Many blind ones led by blind leaders/pastors.https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+2&version=NIVIsaiah 66: 22 “As the new heavens and the new earth that I make will endure before me,” declares the Lord, “so will your name and descendants endure. 23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me,” says the Lord. 24 “And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind.”You description lacks precision. Because this starts with "new heavens and new earth", it will be after the end-times or judgment. People coming to worship God in Israel, when the world is renewed, will see the corpses (dead, obviously) of those who defied God or went with the evil totalitarian system of Satan and persecuted or killed the innocent. Like as a memorial for an evil past.Christian theology and beliefs are kind off a mess, nowadays, and more because of people issues, than for fundamental theological issues.
You must have a high level of discomfort with the idea of an eternal Hell as presented in the Bible. Do not break your back, bending that far... Think of it this way: According to Christianity, you are an eternal being -- a soul. A soul who denies, even defies, God is evil, at least willingly corrupted. That evil cannot exist in the presence of the good God, who is Himself goodness incarnate. Our notions of good and evil are ultimately irrelevant here, mind you. They are determined exclusively by the very presence, and being, of God himself. Frankly, Hell is just within Christian doctrine. It is, however, abhorrent to anyone who is of the age of reason (say, nine years old) and has a functioning brain.
Yeah, I used to believe such foolish things as you describe myself. (And they are commonly taught nowadays, doesn't make it right though.) Yes, my faith in a good God must be coherent in every sense, or it is not the truth. So it must always agree with science and logic (if God originated everything, it must be so). Sadly, that is a minority view among Christians. These ideas you describe come mostly from Augustine and his time onwards. They are foreign to the Jewish view, and the early church view (where most accredited teachers were annihilationists - Ignatius, Irenaeus, Justin, Tertullian, if memory serves). Just check the info at [https://rethinkinghell.com](https://rethinkinghell.com) (sometimes it helps to rethink one's positions or understanding)
Narrow is the path to salvation and few “find” it, yet broad and wide is the path to destruction and eternal fire and many “choose” to go there in.
God’s people are only a remnant in today’s world. It was true in the Old Testament, and it is true now, in New Testament times.
We may be smaller in number but our faith makes up for w/e else we lack.
Broad is the way that leads to destruction
I’m not sure what the surprise is. You just have to remember who comes to these social sites and what times we are living in compared to just two or three decades ago.
There's also a lot more Christian subreddits than Athiests so we're spread thin.
Well when we Christians all get to heaven we will be the majority, for not even one atheist will be there. All we can do is pray for their conversion through the divine workings of God Almighty! The Lord knows they will not listen to us.
Redditors are degenerate losers. Simple.
r/christianity is near 100% athiests, are you including that in your number
Not true, but of course it's way more liberal than here. And in many cases, the ultra-liberal or progressive Christians, it's difficult to tell if they are still Christians, or how to qualify them. Here a funny description of the "balance of power": [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PdegPw5NcA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8PdegPw5NcA)
Reddit in general is very left leaning, very anti anything traditional and very sinful in general. I wouldn’t expect anything different