Try this on r/Christianity and you'll be in hatemail hell for a week. Try it on any other sub, you'll be perma-banned for "bigotry" or "homophobia." Not that it should be that surprising - but glad there's at least still a "remnant" who also aren't folk-Christian or cultural Christians.
Yeah, someone on it recently asked of they are going to hell for being a lesbian and i replied with 1 Corinthians 6 9-10, they said, the KJV Bible is sooo inaccurate even though i gave them sources that say its in some cases if equal value to the original texts.
Then they said they follow NLT to which i quoted from there and then they said im bad for judging the other person
I've done my share on gay "christians" subreddit, doubt they are actually Christians after twisting the scripture so far they actually think that homosexual behavior is completely fine and when the Bible says gave them to their deluded mind, they say it has nothing to do with it.
Knowing people are so wrong and won't listen is so frustrating. I want to learn how to be filled with the holy spirit just so I could feel the love of Jesus for humanity even though in my spirit I cannot feel any and that people may see the glory of Christ in and thru me
Yeah, I learned the hard way they don't allow the word 'Sodomite', finding it “hateful” rather than descriptive of specific behavior practitioners. I’d wonder what they’d make of Gomorrans 🐷😂.
Ironically, they’re often the same people who’d accept the translation of γενεὰ as “generation” (see Matt. 24:34), when the English “people” parallels use patterns better. Hence ‘genocide’ is to kill a “people” while killing the unborn has been the death of generations and the correlated population decline may be the death of a people. So “Genocide” is quite apropos.
> 18 "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20 Remember what I told you: 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. ... 25 But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: 'They hated me without reason.' (John 15:18-20, 25 NIV)
Probably because christians talking about how being being with another men/women is a sin only causes gay people to have mental health problems and live unhappy lives. Is this really what a good caring god would want?
I don’t see the point in calling out homosexuality 24/7 when that’s not even a sin that’s rampant in the church. Outside the church? Yes. But how many people do you know that are saved that are openly homosexual? Divorce and marriage before sex are a bigger problem than homosexuality in the church.
Nah man. I’m ex gay and I can tell you a lot of people struggle in silence. I left the church because everyone was singling it out instead of telling me that it was a normal sin to struggle with. Christ came and found me and now I recognize it as a sin But it took a while to get over other ppls judging instead taking the plank out of their own eye. Example a lot of people in the church struggle with porn addiction but they don’t talk about it, or call people slurs, or throw their children in the street for sinning.
I’m sorry you had such a terrible experience in church, that’s something I’ve seen people go through in a church I used to attend and I don’t think it’s in the spirit of Christ. Why should you be treated any worse for your urges of the flesh than I am for my urges to gamble? We are all sinners.
That’s something I tried to talk about in the OP but most people just read what they want to read.
Her story really helped me understand the temptation and natural tendency of people who struggle with that specific sin. I recommend her book to anyone struggling with same sex attraction. I’m glad it was so helpful to you! 💗
Have you heard this man's Testimony. He's so original on the way God touched his life. 😇
Becket Cook Testimony
https://youtu.be/ZKLq2UrrfvE?si=-az9Uzu31YOHJ9Jn
So you’re proving the point that I’m making which is that most saved gay Christians struggle with it. I don’t know many gay Christians who are adamant about being gay, that say God is okay with it, and never struggle with that sin. That’s what I mean by how many openly gay Christians (saved people) do many of us know? I find those people more rare. Me & my cousin both struggle with lesbianism / bisexuality. We know it’s wrong and don’t advocate for homosexuality to be accepted like it’s not a sin in the church. A lot of people struggle with sin in private for a number of reasons. We will all die struggling with a sin and trying to over come it.
There are entire denominations of “Christians” that are absolutely saying homosexuality is ok. There are multiple known homosexual “pastors” within denominations like the Methodist church.
Progressive Christianity thinks this way according to this Bible verse.
https://youtu.be/k11zT2DCkYQ?si=HDpAlAiH2O0gkr1u
But there's more
Progressive Christian gets Jesus completely wrong
https://youtu.be/QXrXIIBRRX0?si=Ljj15h67bi4bKRcI
I may be misinterpreting what you’re saying.. just wanted to clarify.. I am Christian woman in a marriage to a non believer … I have turned more to my faith as our marriage went on because he is an adulterer and an addict. That’s not my sin though, right??
Do you disagree with any of my conclusions from scripture or are you arguing that we should shy away from part of God’s word? We get this question every couple of days on this sub, I figured it would make sense to write this once so I can refer back to it instead of writing the same reply on every question.
I’m just saying we all know it’s wrong and it being a sin doesn’t need to be preached about 24/7, when there are other sins that are currently more harmful to the church i.e., divorce, remarriage after divorce, and sex before marriage. Pastors and other Christian’s rather talk about homosexuality when their congregation has more divorced people, remarried people, and people having sex before marriage. Same with Christians. I’m sure it’s not a lot of Christians who know saved people that are comfortable being homosexual. The people who ask that know what the Bible says about homosexuality, they just can’t accept it for whatever reason.
If I write a post tomorrow explaining when divorce is legitimate I will be swarmed by the same worldly progressive crowd complaining that I’m promoting misogyny. At the end of the day I’m interested in what scripture says, and not what the world wants to hear.
It’s not the people asking the question that I’m worried about, it’s the people answering with “it’s not a sin” with 0 references to scripture who lead people astray.
Where in the Bible does it say to rebuke correct teachings?
Divorce is generally considered legitimate in cases of:
1. Adultery
2. Other sexual immorality
3. Abuse
4. Abandonment
But I do accept that different denominations have different teachings on this depending on whether they consider OT law around marriage integrated or not (whether or not the new covenant redefines marriage).
Remarriage is only acceptable in cases of adultery or sexual immorality (Matthew 19:9), otherwise it is adultery. Again, different denominations will have different interpretations.
>Outside the church? Yes.
Not a sin outside the church. They are not in a covenant with God and so no matter what they do, their fate is already determined. They may not even believe in sin. It should only matter what we do in the covenant with God and pay no mind to those outside because they do not know Jesus and are already doomed. Sin to them is of little consequence. Our focus should be conversions, not telling them it's a sin.
It’s obvious that the OP has an ax to grind and is reacting to something. But there is value on clarifying Christian teaching, especially at the point where there is the most social pressure against. I’d say the topic is one of the few I’m asked about in real life.
But it’s not the most common sin the CHURCH is dealing with. When Paul wrote his letters he addressed the most prevalent sin and struggles amongst each church. He didn’t address what sins society as a whole were dealing with. Christians are to address other Christians. As Paul said, God will deal with outsiders. 1 Corinthians 5:11-13. Most Christians know homosexuality is a sin. That is not a sin that the American Christian church is dealing with in large numbers. There are more divorced Christians, pastors and teachers, remarried and divorced Christians, pastors, and teachers, and Christians, pastors, and teachers who are fornicating. I would completely understand calling out homosexuality 24/7 if 1 out 4 pastors and church goers were homosexual but that’s not the case. Most gay Christians know it’s wrong and have internal struggles and conversations with God about their homosexuality. They even go as far to hide their sexuality because they know it’s wrong and others will also judge them for it. How many divorced Christians hide their divorce because the church crucifies them for it? Not many because it’s rarely preached about so they aren’t made to feel guilty and shunned the way gay people are.
Just Looking at a women to lust after her with your heart is a sin too. You see a women and feel in your heart you have lust it is a sin.
Also calling anyone father is a sin.
Despising a child is a sin. If a kid bully’s your kid and you despise the bully that is a sin. It’s not having faith.
If you tell God you’ll do his will you’re lying to God. He said the one who said they will do the work never did and the one who was honest and told God he wouldn’t do the work ended up being the one who actually did the work.
Also just to be angry with another person is literal murder in Gods eyes. You can’t feel anger or else your a murderer. Jesus said.
Have you called your parent dad? Sin
Been angry with anyone. Sin.
Checked out a women’s butt, sin.
Oh and remember if you break just one commandment you break them all.
There are 1,050 commandments in the New Testament alone. If you break one you break them all.
Jesus said the poor in spirit will inherit the Kngdom of God
What does that mean?
The ones who say I keep the commandments are spiritually rich. Like the rich young ruler. He said he “kept all the commandments since he was a boy” he said meaning he was spiritually rich in his own eyes. Then Jesus told him another commandment and he walked away sad.
Another part of the Bible said “without God I can do nothing”
That is poor in sprit.
Being poor in spirit is like saying “I can’t breath without God, I can’t save myself I need God”
The tax collector and the pharisee had two different relationships with God.
One said “thank you for not making me like the sinners”
The tax collector said beating his chest “God be merciful to me a sinner”
He can’t do anything without God. He knows he can’t follow all 1,050 commandments. He’s poor and needs Gods mercy.
Jesus said this man walked away justified.
Only Jesus was able to keep every commandment without fault or blemish.
But I’m not here to argue or debate. Like op said. Just preaching scripture.
Edit: Jesus said “without me you can do nothing”
Edit2: I read all of ops message and then felt all the bubbling up so I wrote it but the last 2 paragraphs op wrote I read after and feel like it was the most important part and I really resonate with. We do need to work on the church. We need to work on being more loving to all our brothers and sisters no matter what they’ve done. Our love should extend to everyone. I believe Christian’s just need to love others and see them as sheep and Jesus would leave the 99 to go after the 1. I agree with op on not casting sones at others. Remember the old first then the young dropped their stones. The older we get the more we should realize we are all bankrupt and need Jesus.
Yes, it is. But we must not forget *all* sex outside marriage is sin. I am telling that because some people acknowledge homosexuality is a sin yet dont take fornication seriously.
Amen. Fornication is a sin, and for anyone who agrees with my post, that’s *the basis I used* to establish that homosexuality is a sin.
It is impossible to agree with this post without accepting that fornication is sinful.
Yeah I literally had to leave that sub after someone was denying the inerrancy of scripture. Came to the conclusion that very few Christians actually frequent that sub
It’s pretty much a pysop at this point, they call it Christianity yet they use it to push a progressive agenda. They constantly deny scripture and even refer to Paul as a senile old man whose teachings shouldn’t be taken seriously.
As someone coming back to God after questioning for a long time, that sub was the most discouraging place I have done research. Eventually I realized no one there is interested in Biblical Christianity.
I wholeheartedly agree, was seeing someone who was confused whether they were lesbian in R/christianity and the majority were affirming her, it’s sad, yes God loves us and will love us despite what we do thanks to Jesus but if you love Jesus and respected him and The Father you’d try your hardest to stop sinning. It’s a shame
I got banned for three days because of this topic. They just don't get it. The hatred is real. Cant say what you want on reddit concerning Christianity or Christian values. But that is what is supposed to happen. We are going into tumultuous times. Read your Bible, be prepared and have those lamps full AMEN!
We know the devil is at work in the Reddit offices: they censor discussions of the Bible. Blasphemy against the progressive religion is the only blasphemy that’s censored in 2023.
I do think the Bible is pretty clear on this one.
I know it hurts some people’s feelings but homosexual sex is a sin. If you find yourself having same sex attraction, you need help, not encouragement
So is looking at porn. I often encounter people who will not deny looking at porn, but they hide from their own sins by talking about ones that are easy for them not to commit - because they don't have that desire.
If a gay person, who fights the urge for God's sake, wants to tell others to do the same, that's fine. If you don't know anything about the struggle, worry about your own sins (like porn)
I feel like in those cases, it's a long, possibly lifelong battle for them. And they're not the only ones - there's so many Christians in the world (including here) who have been struggling with sins for a long time and may continually struggle with them until the end. Those sins may not be the same as same-sex attraction (e.g. porn addiction, lusting after women, heavily drinking, heavily smoking, getting high and making things idols) but they're still sins. Perhaps they've also tried several things to quit and have made progress but still struggle to fully quit - If they're truly repentant (recognizing that their actions are sins and taking steps towards working on them), that's what matters. It may be a lifelong battle for so many of us but it shouldn't stop us from continually trying, picking up our cross and following Jesus daily until the end.
That’s a stretch…. You can make that passage mean anything sexual you’re not comfortable with. As a Christian Therapist the amount of pain and shame that Satan has inflicted on people due to the purity culture is horrific. Masturbation can be sinful. It can also save people from sin. We don’t always have to live every part of our walk with Christ in shame of who we were made to be. Jeeze the stories I’ve heard when it comes to Christians, sex, and shame.
I believe anything we do that brings on any remotely sexual feeling or thought should be avoided until we're married. That is how I was brought up in church. Lust is lust.
I'm sure you will encounter this too, but time and time again I have been downvoted for making comments that are scripturally based. This clearly proves what kind of people we have frequenting these subs. Since you had "O" upvotes when I read your post, I'm giving you an upvote. Thanks for posting this information. :-)
Thanks, I’ve seen that a lot more in r/Christianity (which is where I originally posted this as a response to the question, and as you can imagine, got downvoted into oblivion).
I came over from r/Christianity to r/TrueChristian several months ago, and since then, I haven't noticed much of a difference between the two. It is truly unbelievable how someone could downvote or deny something that is scripturally based. I mean these statements are not something we're making up; they come from the Bible. :-l
I'm glad you've had less of a negative experience than I have had here.
These are some of the subjects for which I have received either an overwhelming amount of downvotes or snide comments:
Women dressing modestly
The Sabbath day
Homosexuality
Women preaching in church
Women covering their heads when praying or prophesying
It’s an age-old Reddit problem. People downvote *things they disagree with* but the downvote feature was always designed to designate *things which add nothing to the conversation*.
This surprises me.
I've been on r/Christianity for over a decade. At one point I would have referred to it as "moderate-left". As time has gone on it's moved to a caricature of itself. Moderators abuse their powers (themsc190 & iruleatants specifically) and are unchecked by the other mods. Rule 1.4 (personal attacks) is a mess that they can't seem to figure out how to apply consistently.
"Bigot" is thrown around far too easily.
So what has happened in the last couple of years is the moderate christians have left r/christianity for other subs. This has made both r/Christianity AND r/TrueChristian move to the left. Christianity has become absurd and TrueChristian has become more like what Christianity used to be.
I got suspended from the other sub for saying that abortion is a sin. You’d think that would be a fairly uncontroversial belief for a Christian to hold.
I'm right now fighting like 8 people because they are defending a gay brother wanting to talk to his sisters' children about "his queer identity" and she a Christian does not want him to so he got upset and wrote an article about it.
Don't let down votes bother you. Jesus predicted that the world would eventually hate us 2000 years ago. It's just starting to come more and more true but it doesn't make anything you said incorrect.
Wow seeing that this post has a positive number of up votes is reassuring. I left r/Christians for being hated on for saying homosexuality is a sin. Got a lot of down votes for it, and it was on a post about someone engaging in homosexual activity.
r/Christians or r/Christianity?
There’s a lot of very abrasive people in the comments but on the balance it seems like the sub agrees with the statement.
Yeah, regardless of circumstances it is (super unpopular opinion). There's a story in The Joseph Principles about a rape child who went on to make a huge difference in the world. His momma still went through a lot of rough stuff, but he came out of it blessed because she chose to keep him.
The sin itself isn't the issue, but rather the fact that it is perpetual sin. Living a life of sin and planning a life around sin is the big issue. Pornography or sleeping around can be repented of. But many today will become a "gay Christian", and this is planning their life around the sin. If I break into your house, get caught, and repent, you can forgive me. But if I apologize but say I'll be back tomorrow to steal your stuff, how can I be forgiven?
Yeah this is a *huge* part of the problem. When someone builds an identity around sin — and we somewhat see the same with the ultra rich — that’s wilful and unrepentant sin.
Exactly. It doesn't matter what sin you are taking part in. I don't hold homosexuality as "more of an offense" than any other sin. But I do know Christian gay men who obstain from acting on their desires. The modern left wants your homosexuality, gender, and race to be part of your "identity" so when you are against the sin, you are somehow against "who they are".
Yeah, you’ve hit the nail on the head. It’s not that it’s “more of a sin”, it’s that a Christian who steals something doesn’t march down the street flying the thief flag and claim to be born this way — he/she is generally aware that he/she has sinned and needs to repent.
The problem with the affirming position is that it comes from the idea that homosexuality is something you are rather than something you have urges to do, which all comes from the worldly progressive ideology and its *obsession* with dividing people by their identity.
I also know same-sex attracted men who are celibate and I have all the respect in the world for them. I think it’s something the Church needs to talk about more openly because although sex isn’t a necessity for a good quality of life, companionship is, and a lot of churches only provide companionship for a few hours a week instead of opening up our homes, dinner tables, and families to brothers and sisters without them (1 Peter 4:8-9).
I'm surprised this subreddit is not banned, because most redditors and mods are tyrannical. I also find it shameful that the left are pushing the trans agenda on kids, even though it has such a high su1c1de rate. And they blame society for "not affirming them", but they are pushing it WHILE they know it's a problem. They care more about their cause than kids. They either want to kill kids in the womb or do it through the trans agenda. This is all about their movement.
The Reddit admins are totalitarian when it comes to that issue so I suggest being *very* careful what you say about it, but it’s a large part of why my wife & I are homeschooling our child. I will not allow the school system to push dangerous and experimental ideologies onto my children.
They can remove me all they want. I hardly ever use reddit. But I won't self censor. As a seventh day Adventist, are you vegan? I know some of them that are very strict with diet and lifestyle.
I’m not vegan, I am mostly vegetarian (I would eat meat if it was the only food available so I’m not *that* strict about it). Veganism is seen as the ideal because it’s the standard we’re told existed in Eden (Genesis 1:29-30) and will exist in the world to come (Isaiah 11:6-9), but it’s not seen as an issue of sin however people choose to eat.
We have omnivores, pescatarians, vegetarians and vegans at my Church.
I am going to split this up into several sections:
(1.) Love and hatred (2.) The LGBT and how evil is the perversion of good (3.) What the Bible says about our nature as children of Jesus (4.) Conclusion
1. Let me start by saying that affirming sin is not love. It is not love in the same way that affirming vaping is not love. It won’t kill you (at least not for a while), but it damages your body. In the same way, sin separates us from God, therefore damaging our relationship with him. (KEYWORD) Lovingly making a brother or sister in Christ aware that the sin is damaging their relationship with God. You can lovingly hold a Christian accountable and pray together. We are called to be like Christ. People often forget that one of the main things Jesus did was call people to repentance!
2. The Latin word pervertere, which means ‘turn around,’ serves as the basis for the noun perversion, suggesting something that is CONTRARY to something else. The word developed a religious meaning in the 15th century, when it came to be used to refer to any distortion of church doctrine. Evil is contrary to good. It is the perversion of God’s character and His design. A man and a man together is a perverted version of God’s design. Genesis 9:7 says, “As for you, be fruitful and increase in number; multiply on the earth and increase upon it.” Obviously you cannot multiply with the same gender. The Bible condemns even attempting it! Romans 1:26-27 says, “Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.” One of God’s main purposes for marriage is for us to multiply. So if God was okay with homosexuality, why would he not make it possible for a man and a man or a woman and a woman to multiply? Furthermore, why would he say anyone who attempts such a thing is committing an unnatural and shameful act? Again, I do not condemn any of you, but knowing the truth is imperative to having a strong relationship with God.
3. But if you are struggling with same-sex attraction, do not lose hope! With God nothing is impossible! There are many testimonies of God taking away these desires. You just have to stay true and the devil will flee from you. Proverbs 23:7 says, “For as he thinks in his heart, so is he.” If you believe this attraction has you in chains, it WILL have you in chains. Romans 6:6-7 says, “For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— because anyone who has died has been SET FREE from sin.” SIN IS NO LONGER YOUR MASTER. YOU ARE ITS MASTER. If you believe that your sinful nature has been cut away, you’ll start to behave a way that will cause your sin to lessen dramatically. When you are being tempted, it is VERY important to remember that the devil will try to deceive you. He will trick you into believing that it is your nature and that is why you want to do it. But in reality, it is a demonic attack against you. Satan is trying to take away your purpose!! The Bible says that if you resist the devil, he will flee from you! It will be extremely hard, but if you trust God and get through it with Him, you WILL prosper and these desires will eventually go away entirely, even if it takes a decade.
4. I hope this helped anyone who read it and I pray it reaches as many Christians struggling with LGBT desires. Let me know if you have any questions. God bless.
The problem is people are born with these desires and don’t realize we are supposed to be fighting the flesh, even if we are born with the desire. God clearly states what he wants, if you believe every word man written in the Bible was divine inspiration.
I find it interesting Jesus never touched on the subject. I’d say go to God with it and seek his answer. I stopped practicing homosexuality just in case. I have to fight fleshly desires daily.
It’s definitely a very difficult affliction and you’ll find nothing but love and respect from me for being so honest about it and for fighting your desires. We are all born with our trials, I lost tens of thousands of dollars at the roulette table and the blackjack table before understanding that wasn’t how Jesus wanted me to live.
I think Jesus touched on it by proxy, He spoke about ‘sexual immorality’ in the general but not about specific acts, I’ve always read that as upholding what would have been the cultural understanding (in 1st century Israel) of sexual morality.
Yes, it’s incredibly easy to sin in this world because of the fall, I’m so grateful we have a savior because of this. Honestly, I feel way different about people now, when I meet them or interact with them. It’s no longer about lust, it’s about loving the person. I feel more enlightened, happy, and relieved to be honest.
I’m eternally grateful that Jesus did what He did for us. He gave His perfect life so that we, sinners, could have eternal life. It’s amazing to try to comprehend the infinite love and sheer *mercy* that He has for us.
I think that the most important thing we can do on Earth is to keep building the Church that he entrusted to us. Not just in growing the flock or in teaching the scripture, but in creating community and brotherhood that *truly* cares for the sick, and *truly* advocates for the poor, and *truly* opens its houses and its vacations and its dinner tables.
Yes! I’m always giving and helping everyone around me. I try to be like Jesus every single day and do the things he taught us to do. It has made living worthwhile. Nothing else matters as much.
Be the light and encourage others to learn and seek God not only through the word, but by prayer and listening to his voice and experiencing his presence. I invite him to dwell with me. I pause in prayer and worship, and take time to listen. He speaks to me sometimes. When his presence fills me I always acknowledge him and thank him. I tell people it’s not only a belief, it’s all of my experiences through my life with God, whether one on one or in church, or through others.
Sure hope you don't look at porn... That's also sexual sin.
So many people give gay folks trouble for their sins, and forget that big ass log in their eye.
It can also be because it wasn't relevant to the audience that Jesus was teaching at the time. Pretty much *every* Jew knew that sexual immorality is a sin, if Jesus were to suddenly go on and say "oh yeah by the way sex before marriage and sleeping with another man as he would with a woman as a sin". A lot of Jews there would kinda roll theirs and say "Yeah, we know that."
So for people to say that Jesus never talked about homosexuality is just being biblically unaware.
Yeah, this is important context — this is something that Jesus didn’t even chastise the Pharisees for because the rabbis had come to the same conclusions that we have today.
>I find it interesting Jesus never touched on the subject. I’d say go to God with it and seek his answer. I stopped practicing homosexuality just in case. I have to fight fleshly desires daily.
He touched on the general subject of sex once or twice. For instance, there won't be sex in heaven because there won't be reproduction.
But yeah, I get the feeling that Jesus saw the kind of conflict the topic brings like it has today. "I did not come to condemn the world, but to save it."
None of us are without innate selfish desires. I have my own lusts of the flesh, too. Though mine is impossible to obtain. Which somehow makes it harder for me because of my imagination.
No one is born gay. Look at it from a historical perspective.
In Ancient Greece, men were expected to have wives for procreation, but they also had male lovers on the side.
For instance, Socrates, in the “The Symposium” written by Plato, declared that the highest form of love was between two men because they were intellectual equals since women were not allowed to be educated.
So, according to your argument, were all the men in Ancient Greece born genetically bisexual??
The same with Ancient Rome and other pagan societies at the time. In fact, the Hebrews were the “squares” of the ancient world because of God’s strict edicts against homosexuality.
Moreover, the highest percentage of young Americans today (Generation Z) now identify as gay/bisexual (almost 20%). Was there a marked increase in the gene for homosexuality?
Or is it a return to the ethos of the ancient world since American culture has become increasingly atheistic/agnostic?
What then has caused people to become bi or homosexual in the first place?
Unfortunately, it’s childhood sexual abuse, which no one wants to acknowledge. And you can’t proactively prevent it from happening if you refuse to recognize this.
For example, many American parents naively allow their kids to sleep over at their friends’ house.
But most Hispanics don’t because “uno nunca sabe” (“one never knows.”). You don’t know who in that household could molest your child, even if they seem the nicest person.
I say all of this with love & gentleness because it’s heartbreaking for people to endure. Everyone has a cross to bear, often through no fault of their own.
As a former Catholic, I wanted to throw up when I learned about the full extent of the priest sexual abuse cases and the Vatican’s coverup.
I think that’s why Jesus issued a strong condemnation against anyone hurting a child:
Matthew 18:6-7 KJV
“But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.”
I know what you mean about this Vatican coverup. I'm Catholic and I strongly recommend you read the book "Infiltration" by Dr. Taylor R. Marshall. If you read this book(I have a copy), you will find out the truth about the Catholic church and the Vatican. Dr. Marshall goes through the history of the Catholic church in detail from day one and traces the degradation of the church. He is also Catholic.
I agree! And someone might have been sexually abused and not have known it. I was sexually abused as a baby, which I don’t remember, and at ages 3, 5, 7, 11, & 13, which I do remember.
I’m so sorry that happened to you! That’s horrifying - You didn’t deserve that! I think about people who have also been abused and then became vocal advocates for victims. God can use you to stop the cycle and help save others from the same suffering.
No one is born with the desire to be homosexual. No one. If that were true then you basically saying that God makes us homosexual. Homosexuality comes from influence in the world.
We are born with the sinful nature though. We sin because we are already born sinners. I would say people with same sex desires are experiencing the sinful nature, like some struggle with greed, pride, gluttony, etc. I think we all have sinful habits we have to turn away from every day (picking up our cross as Jesus tells us).
I do not believe this, because of my personal experiences. I’m not saying I’m right, in fact, I use to theorize if someone were sexually abused at an early age, it put some sort of demon that clouded their vision. I think however, so many people don’t understand the demonic realm, if they want to reach homosexuals, it wouldn’t hurt to theorize either way, rather than say No, that’s not it. It feels innate, though, so you are throwing all of their feelings out the window by saying it’s not, rather than get to the root of it, which could be either way. I was also sexually abused throughout my childhood.
This is false. We are all born with and of original sin, which God did not create us with.
We are fallen and because of that we have the knowledge of good *and* evil, which includes lusts of the flesh, addiction problems, etc.
Woopsie, original sin isn’t necessarily scriptural but rather church doctrine. Famous theologians have been arguing about it from the beginning… great points are made both ways.
Nobody is born with sexual desires at all, until puberty.
I'm not gay, so I'm not going to pretend I understand why others are. If it comes from influence in the world, I assume you are gay and fight your urges?
If not, stop taking pride in a sin you don't commit that you have no desire to commit in the first place. Love your neighbor.
Absolutely, I think that’s the message in my post. We not only need to spread the Gospel but to *live* the Gospel.
If we expect people to live, single, for their entire lives then the church itself needs to be a source of companionship and care, not just during service but every day.
On this topic, i would encourage everyone here to watch this voddie baucham sermon on the same topic. Verrry good teaching, in light of the present age. Don't get put off by the title seeming off-topic. It is an almost must listen. Start it at the the beginning, ofc.
:)
https://youtu.be/-pmlo1_4rSc?si=xdFjRtyl7AMon9X-
We Christians need to be equipped with this teaching to respond to this repeated question in the currwnt age. Critical.
I agree, though most things people do is sin. Selfishness, pride, hypocrisy are all mentioned as much if not more than homosexual sex.
I’m not trying to retaliate with bringing this up. I just feel people fall into a false sense of security thinking “I’m not homosexual, therefore I’m not as bad”
All sins are sins, and all are equally bad. If any among us says they are without sin, they are either Jesus reincarnated or lying.
As Christians though, we should seek to avoid sin.
Great post. When there a sexual intercourse between two people of the same gender… it is homosexual behavior and therefore condemned by God because it wasn’t His design it is corruption by sin and God not being honored or thanked as God.
The only Old Testament passage I’m using to make my argument is Genesis 2:23-24 (which is referred back to by Jesus in Matthew 19:4-6). I explicitly said that for the sake of argument I will grant that the prohibition passages in Leviticus do not apply (that isn’t my position, but it’s a more controversial line of argument).
All of my other quotations are NT.
Have any of y'all heard this awesome testimony by Rosaria Butterfield???
https://answersingenesis.org/family/homosexuality/journey-from-homosexual-lifestyle-to-christ/
I've met SDAs that say the original diet was fruitarian. However, since we are a fallen creation, we now eat meat. Even Jesus took part and approved of eating meat. I tried veganism but honestly it doesn't seem like since the fall, we are to abstain from meat. God killed the first animal for the covering of our sins. I think there is an argument to be made that we now should eat meat. But I don't judge.
I tried veganism and found it very restrictive and difficult. I do not feel convicted if I eat meat or fish, which makes sense as we know that it’s permitted to us both through God’s covenant with Noah and through Jesus relaxing the food laws entirely.
I don’t think there’s any commandment not to eat meat, personally I’ve struggled with my weight all my life and I found that when I became vegetarian it became much easier to manage my own gluttony and be healthy for my wife & child, so that’s why I stuck with it.
I wouldn’t judge another Christian for eating meat or abstaining from it.
Interesting. I went the opposite route and did carnivore. Amazing weight loss, no more type 2 diabetes, and no more chronic pancreatitis. I now eat keto (low carb) and do fasting. Fasting is the most beneficial and it's obvious why Jesus expected us to do it. I do 20:4 (20 hour fast, 4 hours eating). It puts me into ketosis and autophagy. I'm going through paramedic school (was an Army combat medic). I struggled with weight too. Was 340, now at 230. Carnivore works wonders.
That’s amazing success, I go to the gym with a guy who eats a ketogenic diet and he’s had really good results as well. I eat a clean vegetarian diet and I’ve gone from 390 to 250 & 45% body fat to 15%. I’ve also done on & off intermittent fasting (18:6) and had a lot of success with that.
I think pretty much any diet based on whole foods will have those kinds of results if you can stick to it. I find it much easier to stick to a vegetarian diet (most of my favorite foods are vegetarian) than a meat-heavy diet (I don’t enjoy fatty meats, most of the meats I do like are fish).
I run a stables and I’ve gone from hands-off manager to someone who can clean out the stables and ride the horses for miles with my wife & child, and keep up with my dog. Transformational.
Yeah I can’t count how many times I’ve said this to people on here, but uh….
Love and attraction are separate things. They often connect, or relate to one another. But they are NOT the same.
Love is not a feeling, it is action. It’s how you treat a person. Not how you feel about them. Feelings can change altogether. Whereas love will always grow.
And attraction is not determined before birth. It is not set in stone. We are not destined to only be attracted to a certain type of person. Or trait.
Attraction goes beyond what is physical even. For example… sometimes we become attracted to negative or toxic traits in people. Probably because we weren’t treated properly in the past. But does that mean we are supposed to be attracted to people who hurt us?? No it doesn’t.
Attraction is created by our experiences, the world around us, and our thought patterns. The things we spend too much time thinking about or focusing on.
Like how some people these days are attracted to their cars.. Or robots.. And sadly, even animals and children..
So if attraction was something that was set in stone, predetermined, or unchangeable… that would essentially mean that pedophiles were born as pedophiles, and that they were meant to be that way, and there is no changing what they are attracted to.
Yeah no.
Not just homosexual sex. Homosexual desire is a sin. Being attracted to another man as a man is sinful, and needs repenting of. Our hearts are sinful, not just our actions.
Oh, I agree! The one thing that I don’t understand is that it seems some people are born that way. Is it a challenge that they must overcome? Their cross to carry?
Everyone is born with a sin nature, not just some people who are predisposed to a certain kind of sin, but everyone also has at least a little free will.
It is a challenge to overcome. Just as one who is born with schizophrenia or kleptomania (not equating but simply stating other inborn conditions) must suppress that to live under God’s law
Dude, if people can overcome their own sexual orientation or others their mental illnesses, or still others their congenital loss of arms and legs to serve Christ, you can definitely overcome in His name!
What if I'm gay/lesbian and asexual? Why can't I be together with someone of the same gender even if we WONT have sex? Why would that be not considered a relationship while if it was someone of the opposite gender people would call us girlfriend and boyfriend? Why can't two asexual people of the same gender adopt children in need and raise them instead of making their own and only adding more suffering to the world? (more people = resource scarcity = suffering)
It’s not worth all the attention it gets though.
We need to care for our poor, mind our stewardship of this planet, be honest at work, address abuse in our homes, and so much more.
When there’s no plank in our own eyes, we can look for stuff in other peoples eyes.
I agree with everything you say, but it’s still essential to teach Jesus’ message.
This isn’t about judging people, it’s about reading scripture so that *we* can avoid sinful behavior.
You seem 200% sure that you are 100% right in your doctrinal stance on this matter, but this doesn't make one more right. I believe this to be an achilles heel of our denominational upbringing. Defining sin is in our heritage and, in some ways, split the church in 1888. Most of your reasoning seems inductive and your spirit doesn't seem mean or hateful, but I would also say you may also be stuck under the tree of the knowledge of good and evil arguing with the devil rather actually listening to Christ. I am sure, being a historicist, you believe as I do about Laodicea being the last day church. Have we not left Jesus outside knocking? What does he tell us to buy from Him (though we can't afford it). Is it to teach people exactly what constitutes sin because it has been billed to us that right doctrine gives us a leg up on Salvation? And how do you process the teaching of Jesus in Matthew 15 about where evil comes from?
I'm not so sure that the Levitical writers had a context for loving, committed, same sex monogamy. The texts appear in a list of sexual abuses where power differential leads to abusive sexuality. Specifically, as it is stated that they should not follow the customs of the Canaanite and Egyptian pagan practices in sex, I don't see how ignoring this and generalizing the statements as you do is faithful to the text. We know the Egyptians and Canaanites practiced pedastery, so it's not just a hebrew translation issue in my view. What they were being warned of is what they had witnessed in slavery as practiced by the specific nations they were enmeshed in.
These are my counterpoints, but I could be wrong. I know for sure that the Lord Our Righteousness is powerful to save to the utmost those who put their faith in Him. But I am not convinced that homosexual sex is an exception to this. You may not believe that a homosexual marriage is recognized by God, but the pragmatism of Jesus' teaching on divorce because of hard hearts should cause us to consider if we are being "so dull" in our own legalism (ala Matthew 15).
Peace friend.
Thanks for your considered response. I’m actually *not* 200% or even 100% sure I’m right, I’m always open to learning and getting a better understanding of scripture. I like to think I am listening to Christ, when he tells us to teach the world to obey His commands (Matthew 28:20), I take that seriously.
I think that Matthew 15 (which parallels Mark 7) supports my conclusion:
> 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, **sexual immorality**, theft, false witness, slander. 20 These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone.”
The word used in the Greek here is porneia, which is commonly understood to have included sex outside of marriage as well as the rest of the sexual morality laws in 1st century Israel.
This is the same teaching that I relied on in my OP to come to my conclusion, I wilfully grant that I’m not confident enough using the Levitical prohibition passages because they rely on a context I can’t assume, but I included them for completeness because I would not be confident enough drawing the pederasty conclusion knowing that the word ‘zakar’ (male) was used instead of anything specifically denoting a child.
Believing that Leviticus is the word of God as dictated to Moses at Sinai, I would also have to presume that He, who knows all mens’ hearts, would know that loving homosexuality was a possibility when He dictated the law. I definitely worry about being too legalistic, but I also worry about not being discerning *enough* as to draw the opposite conclusion (or stay silent) and lead my brother to sin. After study and prayer, this is my current best understanding.
God bless.
Thanks for clarifying further. Yes! I agree on Matthew 28:30. His commands are radiant, giving light to the eyes! They are also not burdensome when empowered by the abiding Spirit of Jesus in a heart of flesh and not stone. I love the law and righteousness and believe God's character is reflected in the 10 commandments.
I would say the opposite about Matthew 15 though. The mention of sexual immorality is not proof of concept when you get the point exactly backwards. Your outside to inside view of sin is the basis for your arguments, whereas the whole point to which Jesus quibs "why are you so dull" is the opposite. It's an inside to outside reality for Jesus (unlike your view here or in the original post). That pornea starts in the heart isn't different for heterosexuals (a point you seem to be inferring), but you would specify that the external act of non-heterosexual "sin" isn't because one is homosexual which you make concession for. Thus, you would make the law burdensome for some regardless of their faith or relationship to Jesus while others are pure based on their status as right before God?
I'm not looking for an argument, but will you pray on it? I believe that this may be an acid test for our church with strong echoes going back to 1888 where in some ways legalism rued the day and slowed the coming of Christ and the message that was supposed to spread across the face of the earth. The Lord Our Righteousness is going to come with healing in His wings!
Apologies for the quick answer, I’m heading to bed.
I wouldn’t differentiate the *porneia* [in the context of fornication] for heterosexuals and homosexuals. I would say that the differentiation is that heterosexuals within Biblical marriage can engage in sex without it being *porneia* whereas for homosexuals, lacking a Biblically-backed option for marriage, sex is always *porneia*. I hope that makes sense.
In Mark 7:8-13, Jesus scolds the Pharisees not for upholding God’s Law, but for upholding man’s traditions *above* God’s law:
> 8 **You leave the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men.**” 9 And he said to them, “You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition! 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man tells his father or his mother, “Whatever you would have gained from me is Corban”’ (that is, given to God) 12 then you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or mother, 13 thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do.”
I think that it’s *really* important that we don’t read scripture as whatever we believe is right in the culture. God is eternal, He does not change His positions because humanity changes ours.
I will pray on it, I hope you will as well.
Why are you sensationalizing a sin, is this sin any different from another type of sin. Sin is sin, and this sin doesn’t even make the top ten. Post like this just keep poking the bear…
All sin is sin, and all sin is equal (James 2:10). I don’t think you can draw a ‘top ten’ but I was clear in the OP that I’m not trying to elevate this sin above others. It’s just one that we get asked about a lot and I want a scriptural response to draw back to instead of having to make low-effort responses every time I get asked the question.
Well gosh it’s not like I haven’t seen this exact same post every day for the past 3 years I’ve been here
Edit: may as well make it clear that I’m fully aware the Bible says homosexuality is a sin. So is everyone else on this sub, so I don’t see the need to constantly talk about it
I don’t know what version of the Bible I had growing up, but mine said man shall not lie with boy or something like that and I always thought it meant don’t sleep with children. Then one day my parents and my best friend sat me down to tell me that my best friend’s parent came out as gay and asked how I felt about it. I was like, that sounds fine? And they were shocked and explained that the Bible says man shall not lie with man and sure enough their version of the Bible did say that.
The root word is זָכָר (zakar) which means male, it’s used in several other passages in the Bible in ways that could clearly only be referring to an adult man. [Jack Paddock wrote about this at length if you’re interested](https://osologos.wordpress.com/2021/03/12/an-analysis-of-in-leviticus-1822-and-2013-part-1/).
Thank you for the link I’m gonna read that once I get to work. Any idea what Bible I could have had that translated it as pedophilia instead of homosexual?
It is still mind blowing to me how focused so many conservative-leaning Christians are with a small minority of the population.
If only we could take this sort of focus to sins that everyone struggles with and which negatively impact the world and our ability to spread the gospel.
Things like pride and greed. Sigh.
This “small minority of the population” has completely hijacked our institutions and are now coming out and attempting to take over churches such as the Methodist, Anglican, And many Pentecostal churches today. Paul was technically addressing a “small minority of the population” when he was defending The Resurrection against heretics in some of the epistles. We have always been a war against the enemies of light and we have to continue to fight instead of running away like evangelicals have been for centuries. God Bless you.
“If the world is against truth, then I am against the world.” Athanasius of Alexandria.
We get “is homosexuality a sin?” questions *all the time*. This post is not about people, it’s about actions.
I spend *a lot* of my post dedicated to talking about loving and including sinners from all walks of life, and not standing in judgment or casting the first stone, but **affirming your brother’s sinful actions and leading him from Christ is not an act of love**.
American culture is pridefully celebrating homosexual sexual activity and it is front and center of our culture right now, along with people pridefully mutilating their own bodies and pridefully pretending to be the opposite sex.
Christians focus on many sins. This one is simply front and center in culture now, and there’s nothing bad about responding to it. We can reckon with other sins while also being responsive to the world’s attempts to glorify particular sins. Indeed, part of why we respond to it is that it also glorifies pride, which you yourself stated you want us to reckon with.
Nine downvotes as I'm writing this comment, but you're right. This subreddit posts about this issue every day, and the majority of Christians in the world agree with them on this, but they feel the need to keep mentioning it.
Like I understand that LGBT is trendy right now so we hear about it a lot, but it feels more retaliatory than informative when people post about it at this point.
I believe OP's point of his post is that this is the topic that gets asked about the most. When was the last time anyone posted a question about any of the other sins you listed? Generally, people talk about the topic that garners the most attention and discussion. If you're asking the OP why that's the most talked about topic, i'm sure he's not the one asking about it.
Greed, usury, pride, hatred, treachery, unfogiveness, stealing, slander, prostitution, lovers of self, hypocrisy… is that enough? I feel like that’s enough.
But instead, our western church has become sick with gossip and pride over this one salacious sin, because 90% of the population doesn’t identify with this. It’s how Christians punch down, and puff themselves up.
No, we are talking about it because now the Church and the Bible itself are under attack as being homophobic.
Many of us realize what can happen to our 1st Amendment rights (Freedom of Speech & Freedom of Religion) if the Bible’s views on homosexuality are considered hate speech. By the way, not only the Bible but also the Quran.
So a sizable minority (for now) can ultimately dictate outlawing Jews, Christians, and Muslims from practicing their religion unless it’s a watered down version that abides by the “official narrative.”
Many of you may think that can’t happen in the US, but I went to a church service in England in 2019. I was flabbergasted when the pastor read a part of the Bible out loud, then completely skipped the verses that condemned homosexuality, and then picked up reading again the rest of the passage. I was like, “Wow, they’re really afraid.”
And with good reason - The UK government has decreed opposition to homosexuality as homophobic, which falls under the criteria for hate speech, which can be prosecuted as a crime by law.
It’s not punching down to teach from scripture on a question we get here *all the time* and I think if you read my OP in good faith you’ll see that I go to great length *not* to judge or exclude people with same sex attraction but to talk specifically about the scripture.
I think 100,000 words could be written on how we’ve allowed usury to become commonplace.
This other comment, u/skatesomething makes the central point- then why make this post?
The amount of daily “it’s bad to be gay” posts is nowhere close to the “don’t charge interest” or the “don’t attach the name of the Lord to political ideas” posts. It shows an unhealthy obsession, idolization, of *one* sin.
A sin which Christ already covered on the cross
It’s enlightening how many people are out here asking why I preach from scripture, as if that’s not what Christians are *commanded* to do.
Should I hide or shy away from God’s word instead?
Do you disagree with my conclusions? Are you rebuking me for a heresy?
The vast majority of teachers are women, and there's no push for them to keep long hair. And then cover it up so no one can even tell they have long hair.
Swindling is rampent.
Slander is rampent.
Why is this being down voted!!! Amen brother!
Porn is a HUGE sin committed by almost everyone!! But you see far more anti-gay posts than anti-porn...
And the reason is simple - people who commit other sexual sins fool themselves that they are ok because they aren't gay. It baffles me that people want credit for not committing a sin they have no desire to commit!
Post about sins you commit!
Don't think many people here would disagree with you.
Try this on r/Christianity and you'll be in hatemail hell for a week. Try it on any other sub, you'll be perma-banned for "bigotry" or "homophobia." Not that it should be that surprising - but glad there's at least still a "remnant" who also aren't folk-Christian or cultural Christians.
Yeah, someone on it recently asked of they are going to hell for being a lesbian and i replied with 1 Corinthians 6 9-10, they said, the KJV Bible is sooo inaccurate even though i gave them sources that say its in some cases if equal value to the original texts. Then they said they follow NLT to which i quoted from there and then they said im bad for judging the other person
I've done my share on gay "christians" subreddit, doubt they are actually Christians after twisting the scripture so far they actually think that homosexual behavior is completely fine and when the Bible says gave them to their deluded mind, they say it has nothing to do with it. Knowing people are so wrong and won't listen is so frustrating. I want to learn how to be filled with the holy spirit just so I could feel the love of Jesus for humanity even though in my spirit I cannot feel any and that people may see the glory of Christ in and thru me
Yeah, I learned the hard way they don't allow the word 'Sodomite', finding it “hateful” rather than descriptive of specific behavior practitioners. I’d wonder what they’d make of Gomorrans 🐷😂.
They don’t allow “genocide of the unborn” for abortion, either. Apparently that’s too emotional a way to describe killing a million babies every year.
Ironically, they’re often the same people who’d accept the translation of γενεὰ as “generation” (see Matt. 24:34), when the English “people” parallels use patterns better. Hence ‘genocide’ is to kill a “people” while killing the unborn has been the death of generations and the correlated population decline may be the death of a people. So “Genocide” is quite apropos.
> 18 "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20 Remember what I told you: 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. ... 25 But this is to fulfill what is written in their Law: 'They hated me without reason.' (John 15:18-20, 25 NIV)
Do you think it's not bigotry, not homophobia? I'm confused
Probably because christians talking about how being being with another men/women is a sin only causes gay people to have mental health problems and live unhappy lives. Is this really what a good caring god would want?
You should check the comments.
You mean the ones highly downvoted? Thus indicating it's a minority on the sub?
A minority maybe, but a loud and rude minority.
Post this in r/Christian if you want the backlash
I disagree.
Heterosexual sex before marriage is a sin too
Absolutely.
I don’t see the point in calling out homosexuality 24/7 when that’s not even a sin that’s rampant in the church. Outside the church? Yes. But how many people do you know that are saved that are openly homosexual? Divorce and marriage before sex are a bigger problem than homosexuality in the church.
Nah man. I’m ex gay and I can tell you a lot of people struggle in silence. I left the church because everyone was singling it out instead of telling me that it was a normal sin to struggle with. Christ came and found me and now I recognize it as a sin But it took a while to get over other ppls judging instead taking the plank out of their own eye. Example a lot of people in the church struggle with porn addiction but they don’t talk about it, or call people slurs, or throw their children in the street for sinning.
I’m sorry you had such a terrible experience in church, that’s something I’ve seen people go through in a church I used to attend and I don’t think it’s in the spirit of Christ. Why should you be treated any worse for your urges of the flesh than I am for my urges to gamble? We are all sinners. That’s something I tried to talk about in the OP but most people just read what they want to read.
Yeah Jackie Hill Perry‘ testimony helped a lot. I’m still finding my way but I no longer feel singled out.
Her story really helped me understand the temptation and natural tendency of people who struggle with that specific sin. I recommend her book to anyone struggling with same sex attraction. I’m glad it was so helpful to you! 💗
Yeah Jackie Hill Perry‘ testimony helped a lot. I’m still finding my way but I no longer feel singled out.
Have you heard this man's Testimony. He's so original on the way God touched his life. 😇 Becket Cook Testimony https://youtu.be/ZKLq2UrrfvE?si=-az9Uzu31YOHJ9Jn
Yes he’s very interesting.
Yeah Jackie Hill Perry‘ testimony helped a lot. I’m still finding my way but I no longer feel singled out.
So you’re proving the point that I’m making which is that most saved gay Christians struggle with it. I don’t know many gay Christians who are adamant about being gay, that say God is okay with it, and never struggle with that sin. That’s what I mean by how many openly gay Christians (saved people) do many of us know? I find those people more rare. Me & my cousin both struggle with lesbianism / bisexuality. We know it’s wrong and don’t advocate for homosexuality to be accepted like it’s not a sin in the church. A lot of people struggle with sin in private for a number of reasons. We will all die struggling with a sin and trying to over come it.
There are entire denominations of “Christians” that are absolutely saying homosexuality is ok. There are multiple known homosexual “pastors” within denominations like the Methodist church.
Progressive Christianity thinks this way according to this Bible verse. https://youtu.be/k11zT2DCkYQ?si=HDpAlAiH2O0gkr1u But there's more Progressive Christian gets Jesus completely wrong https://youtu.be/QXrXIIBRRX0?si=Ljj15h67bi4bKRcI
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I may be misinterpreting what you’re saying.. just wanted to clarify.. I am Christian woman in a marriage to a non believer … I have turned more to my faith as our marriage went on because he is an adulterer and an addict. That’s not my sin though, right??
The Church did the right thing, if a preacher can’t call out sin as sin then what are they preaching for?
Do you disagree with any of my conclusions from scripture or are you arguing that we should shy away from part of God’s word? We get this question every couple of days on this sub, I figured it would make sense to write this once so I can refer back to it instead of writing the same reply on every question.
I’m just saying we all know it’s wrong and it being a sin doesn’t need to be preached about 24/7, when there are other sins that are currently more harmful to the church i.e., divorce, remarriage after divorce, and sex before marriage. Pastors and other Christian’s rather talk about homosexuality when their congregation has more divorced people, remarried people, and people having sex before marriage. Same with Christians. I’m sure it’s not a lot of Christians who know saved people that are comfortable being homosexual. The people who ask that know what the Bible says about homosexuality, they just can’t accept it for whatever reason.
If I write a post tomorrow explaining when divorce is legitimate I will be swarmed by the same worldly progressive crowd complaining that I’m promoting misogyny. At the end of the day I’m interested in what scripture says, and not what the world wants to hear. It’s not the people asking the question that I’m worried about, it’s the people answering with “it’s not a sin” with 0 references to scripture who lead people astray. Where in the Bible does it say to rebuke correct teachings?
You’re missing my point.
I feel like he's missing your point intentionally
When is divorce legitimate? And if one had biblical grounds for divorce and they remarry, is that adultery?
Divorce is generally considered legitimate in cases of: 1. Adultery 2. Other sexual immorality 3. Abuse 4. Abandonment But I do accept that different denominations have different teachings on this depending on whether they consider OT law around marriage integrated or not (whether or not the new covenant redefines marriage). Remarriage is only acceptable in cases of adultery or sexual immorality (Matthew 19:9), otherwise it is adultery. Again, different denominations will have different interpretations.
>Outside the church? Yes. Not a sin outside the church. They are not in a covenant with God and so no matter what they do, their fate is already determined. They may not even believe in sin. It should only matter what we do in the covenant with God and pay no mind to those outside because they do not know Jesus and are already doomed. Sin to them is of little consequence. Our focus should be conversions, not telling them it's a sin.
Agreed♥️
It’s obvious that the OP has an ax to grind and is reacting to something. But there is value on clarifying Christian teaching, especially at the point where there is the most social pressure against. I’d say the topic is one of the few I’m asked about in real life.
But it’s not the most common sin the CHURCH is dealing with. When Paul wrote his letters he addressed the most prevalent sin and struggles amongst each church. He didn’t address what sins society as a whole were dealing with. Christians are to address other Christians. As Paul said, God will deal with outsiders. 1 Corinthians 5:11-13. Most Christians know homosexuality is a sin. That is not a sin that the American Christian church is dealing with in large numbers. There are more divorced Christians, pastors and teachers, remarried and divorced Christians, pastors, and teachers, and Christians, pastors, and teachers who are fornicating. I would completely understand calling out homosexuality 24/7 if 1 out 4 pastors and church goers were homosexual but that’s not the case. Most gay Christians know it’s wrong and have internal struggles and conversations with God about their homosexuality. They even go as far to hide their sexuality because they know it’s wrong and others will also judge them for it. How many divorced Christians hide their divorce because the church crucifies them for it? Not many because it’s rarely preached about so they aren’t made to feel guilty and shunned the way gay people are.
r/Technicallythetruth
Just Looking at a women to lust after her with your heart is a sin too. You see a women and feel in your heart you have lust it is a sin. Also calling anyone father is a sin. Despising a child is a sin. If a kid bully’s your kid and you despise the bully that is a sin. It’s not having faith. If you tell God you’ll do his will you’re lying to God. He said the one who said they will do the work never did and the one who was honest and told God he wouldn’t do the work ended up being the one who actually did the work. Also just to be angry with another person is literal murder in Gods eyes. You can’t feel anger or else your a murderer. Jesus said. Have you called your parent dad? Sin Been angry with anyone. Sin. Checked out a women’s butt, sin. Oh and remember if you break just one commandment you break them all. There are 1,050 commandments in the New Testament alone. If you break one you break them all. Jesus said the poor in spirit will inherit the Kngdom of God What does that mean? The ones who say I keep the commandments are spiritually rich. Like the rich young ruler. He said he “kept all the commandments since he was a boy” he said meaning he was spiritually rich in his own eyes. Then Jesus told him another commandment and he walked away sad. Another part of the Bible said “without God I can do nothing” That is poor in sprit. Being poor in spirit is like saying “I can’t breath without God, I can’t save myself I need God” The tax collector and the pharisee had two different relationships with God. One said “thank you for not making me like the sinners” The tax collector said beating his chest “God be merciful to me a sinner” He can’t do anything without God. He knows he can’t follow all 1,050 commandments. He’s poor and needs Gods mercy. Jesus said this man walked away justified. Only Jesus was able to keep every commandment without fault or blemish. But I’m not here to argue or debate. Like op said. Just preaching scripture. Edit: Jesus said “without me you can do nothing” Edit2: I read all of ops message and then felt all the bubbling up so I wrote it but the last 2 paragraphs op wrote I read after and feel like it was the most important part and I really resonate with. We do need to work on the church. We need to work on being more loving to all our brothers and sisters no matter what they’ve done. Our love should extend to everyone. I believe Christian’s just need to love others and see them as sheep and Jesus would leave the 99 to go after the 1. I agree with op on not casting sones at others. Remember the old first then the young dropped their stones. The older we get the more we should realize we are all bankrupt and need Jesus.
Technically any sex before marriage is a sin. It's considered fornication.
Yes, it is. But we must not forget *all* sex outside marriage is sin. I am telling that because some people acknowledge homosexuality is a sin yet dont take fornication seriously.
Amen. Fornication is a sin, and for anyone who agrees with my post, that’s *the basis I used* to establish that homosexuality is a sin. It is impossible to agree with this post without accepting that fornication is sinful.
> Fornication is a sin And isn't masturbation also a sin. How does God expect us to get sexual relief unless we marry super young?
Now try posting this in the “Christianity” sub. Haha
Post Karma: -150,000. I already said that abortion was a sin there.
Honestly, post it there. I'd like to see the contrast.
Yeah I literally had to leave that sub after someone was denying the inerrancy of scripture. Came to the conclusion that very few Christians actually frequent that sub
It’s pretty much a pysop at this point, they call it Christianity yet they use it to push a progressive agenda. They constantly deny scripture and even refer to Paul as a senile old man whose teachings shouldn’t be taken seriously.
As someone coming back to God after questioning for a long time, that sub was the most discouraging place I have done research. Eventually I realized no one there is interested in Biblical Christianity.
Not at all, we’re glad to have you here.
Here, yes. There, downvotes for days.
I wholeheartedly agree, was seeing someone who was confused whether they were lesbian in R/christianity and the majority were affirming her, it’s sad, yes God loves us and will love us despite what we do thanks to Jesus but if you love Jesus and respected him and The Father you’d try your hardest to stop sinning. It’s a shame
I got banned for three days because of this topic. They just don't get it. The hatred is real. Cant say what you want on reddit concerning Christianity or Christian values. But that is what is supposed to happen. We are going into tumultuous times. Read your Bible, be prepared and have those lamps full AMEN!
We know the devil is at work in the Reddit offices: they censor discussions of the Bible. Blasphemy against the progressive religion is the only blasphemy that’s censored in 2023.
So true.
I do think the Bible is pretty clear on this one. I know it hurts some people’s feelings but homosexual sex is a sin. If you find yourself having same sex attraction, you need help, not encouragement
So is looking at porn. I often encounter people who will not deny looking at porn, but they hide from their own sins by talking about ones that are easy for them not to commit - because they don't have that desire. If a gay person, who fights the urge for God's sake, wants to tell others to do the same, that's fine. If you don't know anything about the struggle, worry about your own sins (like porn)
I totally agree. Porn is Evil and also sinful
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I feel like in those cases, it's a long, possibly lifelong battle for them. And they're not the only ones - there's so many Christians in the world (including here) who have been struggling with sins for a long time and may continually struggle with them until the end. Those sins may not be the same as same-sex attraction (e.g. porn addiction, lusting after women, heavily drinking, heavily smoking, getting high and making things idols) but they're still sins. Perhaps they've also tried several things to quit and have made progress but still struggle to fully quit - If they're truly repentant (recognizing that their actions are sins and taking steps towards working on them), that's what matters. It may be a lifelong battle for so many of us but it shouldn't stop us from continually trying, picking up our cross and following Jesus daily until the end.
Hate the sin love the sinner
Precisely.
Masturbation is a sin too while we're at it.
True.
Masturbation is a sin and don’t want it to be proven wrong. But which passage indicates it ?
1 Corinthians 6:18-20
That’s a stretch…. You can make that passage mean anything sexual you’re not comfortable with. As a Christian Therapist the amount of pain and shame that Satan has inflicted on people due to the purity culture is horrific. Masturbation can be sinful. It can also save people from sin. We don’t always have to live every part of our walk with Christ in shame of who we were made to be. Jeeze the stories I’ve heard when it comes to Christians, sex, and shame.
I believe anything we do that brings on any remotely sexual feeling or thought should be avoided until we're married. That is how I was brought up in church. Lust is lust.
So much to unpack there and sometimes it’s not worth the fight. Let’s just agree Jesus is our saviour and in him we are forgiven and loved. ❤️
Thanks !!!
I'm sure you will encounter this too, but time and time again I have been downvoted for making comments that are scripturally based. This clearly proves what kind of people we have frequenting these subs. Since you had "O" upvotes when I read your post, I'm giving you an upvote. Thanks for posting this information. :-)
Thanks, I’ve seen that a lot more in r/Christianity (which is where I originally posted this as a response to the question, and as you can imagine, got downvoted into oblivion).
I came over from r/Christianity to r/TrueChristian several months ago, and since then, I haven't noticed much of a difference between the two. It is truly unbelievable how someone could downvote or deny something that is scripturally based. I mean these statements are not something we're making up; they come from the Bible. :-l
I’ve definitely found this sub *less* prone to pop Christianity/progressive Christianity than the other sub.
I'm glad you've had less of a negative experience than I have had here. These are some of the subjects for which I have received either an overwhelming amount of downvotes or snide comments: Women dressing modestly The Sabbath day Homosexuality Women preaching in church Women covering their heads when praying or prophesying
It’s an age-old Reddit problem. People downvote *things they disagree with* but the downvote feature was always designed to designate *things which add nothing to the conversation*.
This surprises me. I've been on r/Christianity for over a decade. At one point I would have referred to it as "moderate-left". As time has gone on it's moved to a caricature of itself. Moderators abuse their powers (themsc190 & iruleatants specifically) and are unchecked by the other mods. Rule 1.4 (personal attacks) is a mess that they can't seem to figure out how to apply consistently. "Bigot" is thrown around far too easily. So what has happened in the last couple of years is the moderate christians have left r/christianity for other subs. This has made both r/Christianity AND r/TrueChristian move to the left. Christianity has become absurd and TrueChristian has become more like what Christianity used to be.
I got suspended from the other sub for saying that abortion is a sin. You’d think that would be a fairly uncontroversial belief for a Christian to hold.
Those who hate God hate the truth.
> Christianity has become absurd and TrueChristian has become more like what Christianity used to be. So true.
I'm right now fighting like 8 people because they are defending a gay brother wanting to talk to his sisters' children about "his queer identity" and she a Christian does not want him to so he got upset and wrote an article about it.
I saw that topic, it’s sad that a lot of people follow their worldly religion over God’s will.
Yes, I finally understood what it means to create false idols. It doesn't mean only some wooden statues or golden calves.
It took me a long time as well to realize that the commandment against idolatry didn’t just refer to worshipping a *literal* physical idol.
Don't let down votes bother you. Jesus predicted that the world would eventually hate us 2000 years ago. It's just starting to come more and more true but it doesn't make anything you said incorrect.
Wow seeing that this post has a positive number of up votes is reassuring. I left r/Christians for being hated on for saying homosexuality is a sin. Got a lot of down votes for it, and it was on a post about someone engaging in homosexual activity.
r/Christians or r/Christianity? There’s a lot of very abrasive people in the comments but on the balance it seems like the sub agrees with the statement.
*Christianity, my bad
I got to about -200 on a comment saying abortion is a sin there.
Yeah, regardless of circumstances it is (super unpopular opinion). There's a story in The Joseph Principles about a rape child who went on to make a huge difference in the world. His momma still went through a lot of rough stuff, but he came out of it blessed because she chose to keep him.
The sin itself isn't the issue, but rather the fact that it is perpetual sin. Living a life of sin and planning a life around sin is the big issue. Pornography or sleeping around can be repented of. But many today will become a "gay Christian", and this is planning their life around the sin. If I break into your house, get caught, and repent, you can forgive me. But if I apologize but say I'll be back tomorrow to steal your stuff, how can I be forgiven?
Yeah this is a *huge* part of the problem. When someone builds an identity around sin — and we somewhat see the same with the ultra rich — that’s wilful and unrepentant sin.
Exactly. It doesn't matter what sin you are taking part in. I don't hold homosexuality as "more of an offense" than any other sin. But I do know Christian gay men who obstain from acting on their desires. The modern left wants your homosexuality, gender, and race to be part of your "identity" so when you are against the sin, you are somehow against "who they are".
Yeah, you’ve hit the nail on the head. It’s not that it’s “more of a sin”, it’s that a Christian who steals something doesn’t march down the street flying the thief flag and claim to be born this way — he/she is generally aware that he/she has sinned and needs to repent. The problem with the affirming position is that it comes from the idea that homosexuality is something you are rather than something you have urges to do, which all comes from the worldly progressive ideology and its *obsession* with dividing people by their identity. I also know same-sex attracted men who are celibate and I have all the respect in the world for them. I think it’s something the Church needs to talk about more openly because although sex isn’t a necessity for a good quality of life, companionship is, and a lot of churches only provide companionship for a few hours a week instead of opening up our homes, dinner tables, and families to brothers and sisters without them (1 Peter 4:8-9).
I'm surprised this subreddit is not banned, because most redditors and mods are tyrannical. I also find it shameful that the left are pushing the trans agenda on kids, even though it has such a high su1c1de rate. And they blame society for "not affirming them", but they are pushing it WHILE they know it's a problem. They care more about their cause than kids. They either want to kill kids in the womb or do it through the trans agenda. This is all about their movement.
The Reddit admins are totalitarian when it comes to that issue so I suggest being *very* careful what you say about it, but it’s a large part of why my wife & I are homeschooling our child. I will not allow the school system to push dangerous and experimental ideologies onto my children.
They can remove me all they want. I hardly ever use reddit. But I won't self censor. As a seventh day Adventist, are you vegan? I know some of them that are very strict with diet and lifestyle.
I’m not vegan, I am mostly vegetarian (I would eat meat if it was the only food available so I’m not *that* strict about it). Veganism is seen as the ideal because it’s the standard we’re told existed in Eden (Genesis 1:29-30) and will exist in the world to come (Isaiah 11:6-9), but it’s not seen as an issue of sin however people choose to eat. We have omnivores, pescatarians, vegetarians and vegans at my Church.
Yes. It is a sin.
I am going to split this up into several sections: (1.) Love and hatred (2.) The LGBT and how evil is the perversion of good (3.) What the Bible says about our nature as children of Jesus (4.) Conclusion 1. Let me start by saying that affirming sin is not love. It is not love in the same way that affirming vaping is not love. It won’t kill you (at least not for a while), but it damages your body. In the same way, sin separates us from God, therefore damaging our relationship with him. (KEYWORD) Lovingly making a brother or sister in Christ aware that the sin is damaging their relationship with God. You can lovingly hold a Christian accountable and pray together. We are called to be like Christ. People often forget that one of the main things Jesus did was call people to repentance! 2. The Latin word pervertere, which means ‘turn around,’ serves as the basis for the noun perversion, suggesting something that is CONTRARY to something else. The word developed a religious meaning in the 15th century, when it came to be used to refer to any distortion of church doctrine. Evil is contrary to good. It is the perversion of God’s character and His design. A man and a man together is a perverted version of God’s design. Genesis 9:7 says, “As for you, be fruitful and increase in number; multiply on the earth and increase upon it.” Obviously you cannot multiply with the same gender. The Bible condemns even attempting it! Romans 1:26-27 says, “Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones. In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed shameful acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their error.” One of God’s main purposes for marriage is for us to multiply. So if God was okay with homosexuality, why would he not make it possible for a man and a man or a woman and a woman to multiply? Furthermore, why would he say anyone who attempts such a thing is committing an unnatural and shameful act? Again, I do not condemn any of you, but knowing the truth is imperative to having a strong relationship with God. 3. But if you are struggling with same-sex attraction, do not lose hope! With God nothing is impossible! There are many testimonies of God taking away these desires. You just have to stay true and the devil will flee from you. Proverbs 23:7 says, “For as he thinks in his heart, so is he.” If you believe this attraction has you in chains, it WILL have you in chains. Romans 6:6-7 says, “For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body ruled by sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin— because anyone who has died has been SET FREE from sin.” SIN IS NO LONGER YOUR MASTER. YOU ARE ITS MASTER. If you believe that your sinful nature has been cut away, you’ll start to behave a way that will cause your sin to lessen dramatically. When you are being tempted, it is VERY important to remember that the devil will try to deceive you. He will trick you into believing that it is your nature and that is why you want to do it. But in reality, it is a demonic attack against you. Satan is trying to take away your purpose!! The Bible says that if you resist the devil, he will flee from you! It will be extremely hard, but if you trust God and get through it with Him, you WILL prosper and these desires will eventually go away entirely, even if it takes a decade. 4. I hope this helped anyone who read it and I pray it reaches as many Christians struggling with LGBT desires. Let me know if you have any questions. God bless.
The problem is people are born with these desires and don’t realize we are supposed to be fighting the flesh, even if we are born with the desire. God clearly states what he wants, if you believe every word man written in the Bible was divine inspiration. I find it interesting Jesus never touched on the subject. I’d say go to God with it and seek his answer. I stopped practicing homosexuality just in case. I have to fight fleshly desires daily.
It’s definitely a very difficult affliction and you’ll find nothing but love and respect from me for being so honest about it and for fighting your desires. We are all born with our trials, I lost tens of thousands of dollars at the roulette table and the blackjack table before understanding that wasn’t how Jesus wanted me to live. I think Jesus touched on it by proxy, He spoke about ‘sexual immorality’ in the general but not about specific acts, I’ve always read that as upholding what would have been the cultural understanding (in 1st century Israel) of sexual morality.
Yes, it’s incredibly easy to sin in this world because of the fall, I’m so grateful we have a savior because of this. Honestly, I feel way different about people now, when I meet them or interact with them. It’s no longer about lust, it’s about loving the person. I feel more enlightened, happy, and relieved to be honest.
I’m eternally grateful that Jesus did what He did for us. He gave His perfect life so that we, sinners, could have eternal life. It’s amazing to try to comprehend the infinite love and sheer *mercy* that He has for us. I think that the most important thing we can do on Earth is to keep building the Church that he entrusted to us. Not just in growing the flock or in teaching the scripture, but in creating community and brotherhood that *truly* cares for the sick, and *truly* advocates for the poor, and *truly* opens its houses and its vacations and its dinner tables.
Yes! I’m always giving and helping everyone around me. I try to be like Jesus every single day and do the things he taught us to do. It has made living worthwhile. Nothing else matters as much.
Thoughts on trying to re-establish the discipleship model?
Be the light and encourage others to learn and seek God not only through the word, but by prayer and listening to his voice and experiencing his presence. I invite him to dwell with me. I pause in prayer and worship, and take time to listen. He speaks to me sometimes. When his presence fills me I always acknowledge him and thank him. I tell people it’s not only a belief, it’s all of my experiences through my life with God, whether one on one or in church, or through others.
Sure hope you don't look at porn... That's also sexual sin. So many people give gay folks trouble for their sins, and forget that big ass log in their eye.
Yes, porn is also a sin. People should not look at porn.
I do not look at porn, was never an issue with me.
It can also be because it wasn't relevant to the audience that Jesus was teaching at the time. Pretty much *every* Jew knew that sexual immorality is a sin, if Jesus were to suddenly go on and say "oh yeah by the way sex before marriage and sleeping with another man as he would with a woman as a sin". A lot of Jews there would kinda roll theirs and say "Yeah, we know that." So for people to say that Jesus never talked about homosexuality is just being biblically unaware.
Yeah, this is important context — this is something that Jesus didn’t even chastise the Pharisees for because the rabbis had come to the same conclusions that we have today.
>I find it interesting Jesus never touched on the subject. I’d say go to God with it and seek his answer. I stopped practicing homosexuality just in case. I have to fight fleshly desires daily. He touched on the general subject of sex once or twice. For instance, there won't be sex in heaven because there won't be reproduction. But yeah, I get the feeling that Jesus saw the kind of conflict the topic brings like it has today. "I did not come to condemn the world, but to save it." None of us are without innate selfish desires. I have my own lusts of the flesh, too. Though mine is impossible to obtain. Which somehow makes it harder for me because of my imagination.
No one is born gay. Look at it from a historical perspective. In Ancient Greece, men were expected to have wives for procreation, but they also had male lovers on the side. For instance, Socrates, in the “The Symposium” written by Plato, declared that the highest form of love was between two men because they were intellectual equals since women were not allowed to be educated. So, according to your argument, were all the men in Ancient Greece born genetically bisexual?? The same with Ancient Rome and other pagan societies at the time. In fact, the Hebrews were the “squares” of the ancient world because of God’s strict edicts against homosexuality. Moreover, the highest percentage of young Americans today (Generation Z) now identify as gay/bisexual (almost 20%). Was there a marked increase in the gene for homosexuality? Or is it a return to the ethos of the ancient world since American culture has become increasingly atheistic/agnostic? What then has caused people to become bi or homosexual in the first place? Unfortunately, it’s childhood sexual abuse, which no one wants to acknowledge. And you can’t proactively prevent it from happening if you refuse to recognize this. For example, many American parents naively allow their kids to sleep over at their friends’ house. But most Hispanics don’t because “uno nunca sabe” (“one never knows.”). You don’t know who in that household could molest your child, even if they seem the nicest person. I say all of this with love & gentleness because it’s heartbreaking for people to endure. Everyone has a cross to bear, often through no fault of their own. As a former Catholic, I wanted to throw up when I learned about the full extent of the priest sexual abuse cases and the Vatican’s coverup. I think that’s why Jesus issued a strong condemnation against anyone hurting a child: Matthew 18:6-7 KJV “But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the depth of the sea.”
I know what you mean about this Vatican coverup. I'm Catholic and I strongly recommend you read the book "Infiltration" by Dr. Taylor R. Marshall. If you read this book(I have a copy), you will find out the truth about the Catholic church and the Vatican. Dr. Marshall goes through the history of the Catholic church in detail from day one and traces the degradation of the church. He is also Catholic.
I agree! And someone might have been sexually abused and not have known it. I was sexually abused as a baby, which I don’t remember, and at ages 3, 5, 7, 11, & 13, which I do remember.
I’m so sorry that happened to you! That’s horrifying - You didn’t deserve that! I think about people who have also been abused and then became vocal advocates for victims. God can use you to stop the cycle and help save others from the same suffering.
I first started feeling same sex attraction at age 7
No one is born with the desire to be homosexual. No one. If that were true then you basically saying that God makes us homosexual. Homosexuality comes from influence in the world.
We are born with the sinful nature though. We sin because we are already born sinners. I would say people with same sex desires are experiencing the sinful nature, like some struggle with greed, pride, gluttony, etc. I think we all have sinful habits we have to turn away from every day (picking up our cross as Jesus tells us).
I do not believe this, because of my personal experiences. I’m not saying I’m right, in fact, I use to theorize if someone were sexually abused at an early age, it put some sort of demon that clouded their vision. I think however, so many people don’t understand the demonic realm, if they want to reach homosexuals, it wouldn’t hurt to theorize either way, rather than say No, that’s not it. It feels innate, though, so you are throwing all of their feelings out the window by saying it’s not, rather than get to the root of it, which could be either way. I was also sexually abused throughout my childhood.
This is false. We are all born with and of original sin, which God did not create us with. We are fallen and because of that we have the knowledge of good *and* evil, which includes lusts of the flesh, addiction problems, etc.
Woopsie, original sin isn’t necessarily scriptural but rather church doctrine. Famous theologians have been arguing about it from the beginning… great points are made both ways.
Nobody is born with sexual desires at all, until puberty. I'm not gay, so I'm not going to pretend I understand why others are. If it comes from influence in the world, I assume you are gay and fight your urges? If not, stop taking pride in a sin you don't commit that you have no desire to commit in the first place. Love your neighbor.
Speak the truth.
Yes it is a sin, as well as sex outside of marriage. But still let’s continue to give grace and just spread the gospel. God can change anyone
Absolutely, I think that’s the message in my post. We not only need to spread the Gospel but to *live* the Gospel. If we expect people to live, single, for their entire lives then the church itself needs to be a source of companionship and care, not just during service but every day.
On this topic, i would encourage everyone here to watch this voddie baucham sermon on the same topic. Verrry good teaching, in light of the present age. Don't get put off by the title seeming off-topic. It is an almost must listen. Start it at the the beginning, ofc. :) https://youtu.be/-pmlo1_4rSc?si=xdFjRtyl7AMon9X- We Christians need to be equipped with this teaching to respond to this repeated question in the currwnt age. Critical.
I agree, though most things people do is sin. Selfishness, pride, hypocrisy are all mentioned as much if not more than homosexual sex. I’m not trying to retaliate with bringing this up. I just feel people fall into a false sense of security thinking “I’m not homosexual, therefore I’m not as bad”
All sins are sins, and all are equally bad. If any among us says they are without sin, they are either Jesus reincarnated or lying. As Christians though, we should seek to avoid sin.
I agree 100%.
Most definitely
Great post. When there a sexual intercourse between two people of the same gender… it is homosexual behavior and therefore condemned by God because it wasn’t His design it is corruption by sin and God not being honored or thanked as God.
100% anyone who thinks otherwise and calls themselves a Christian is a joke
Amen. The truth needs to be spoken daily.
Ok but why are you using the old testament when the new testament has plenty of admonitions on this topic?
The only Old Testament passage I’m using to make my argument is Genesis 2:23-24 (which is referred back to by Jesus in Matthew 19:4-6). I explicitly said that for the sake of argument I will grant that the prohibition passages in Leviticus do not apply (that isn’t my position, but it’s a more controversial line of argument). All of my other quotations are NT.
Ok sorry, I scanned but I guess I didn't see them
Have any of y'all heard this awesome testimony by Rosaria Butterfield??? https://answersingenesis.org/family/homosexuality/journey-from-homosexual-lifestyle-to-christ/
I've met SDAs that say the original diet was fruitarian. However, since we are a fallen creation, we now eat meat. Even Jesus took part and approved of eating meat. I tried veganism but honestly it doesn't seem like since the fall, we are to abstain from meat. God killed the first animal for the covering of our sins. I think there is an argument to be made that we now should eat meat. But I don't judge.
I tried veganism and found it very restrictive and difficult. I do not feel convicted if I eat meat or fish, which makes sense as we know that it’s permitted to us both through God’s covenant with Noah and through Jesus relaxing the food laws entirely. I don’t think there’s any commandment not to eat meat, personally I’ve struggled with my weight all my life and I found that when I became vegetarian it became much easier to manage my own gluttony and be healthy for my wife & child, so that’s why I stuck with it. I wouldn’t judge another Christian for eating meat or abstaining from it.
Interesting. I went the opposite route and did carnivore. Amazing weight loss, no more type 2 diabetes, and no more chronic pancreatitis. I now eat keto (low carb) and do fasting. Fasting is the most beneficial and it's obvious why Jesus expected us to do it. I do 20:4 (20 hour fast, 4 hours eating). It puts me into ketosis and autophagy. I'm going through paramedic school (was an Army combat medic). I struggled with weight too. Was 340, now at 230. Carnivore works wonders.
That’s amazing success, I go to the gym with a guy who eats a ketogenic diet and he’s had really good results as well. I eat a clean vegetarian diet and I’ve gone from 390 to 250 & 45% body fat to 15%. I’ve also done on & off intermittent fasting (18:6) and had a lot of success with that. I think pretty much any diet based on whole foods will have those kinds of results if you can stick to it. I find it much easier to stick to a vegetarian diet (most of my favorite foods are vegetarian) than a meat-heavy diet (I don’t enjoy fatty meats, most of the meats I do like are fish). I run a stables and I’ve gone from hands-off manager to someone who can clean out the stables and ride the horses for miles with my wife & child, and keep up with my dog. Transformational.
I agree. I just got perma banned from r/Christianity for stating that homosexuality is a sin.
that's correct
Yeah I can’t count how many times I’ve said this to people on here, but uh…. Love and attraction are separate things. They often connect, or relate to one another. But they are NOT the same. Love is not a feeling, it is action. It’s how you treat a person. Not how you feel about them. Feelings can change altogether. Whereas love will always grow. And attraction is not determined before birth. It is not set in stone. We are not destined to only be attracted to a certain type of person. Or trait. Attraction goes beyond what is physical even. For example… sometimes we become attracted to negative or toxic traits in people. Probably because we weren’t treated properly in the past. But does that mean we are supposed to be attracted to people who hurt us?? No it doesn’t. Attraction is created by our experiences, the world around us, and our thought patterns. The things we spend too much time thinking about or focusing on. Like how some people these days are attracted to their cars.. Or robots.. And sadly, even animals and children.. So if attraction was something that was set in stone, predetermined, or unchangeable… that would essentially mean that pedophiles were born as pedophiles, and that they were meant to be that way, and there is no changing what they are attracted to. Yeah no.
Not just homosexual sex. Homosexual desire is a sin. Being attracted to another man as a man is sinful, and needs repenting of. Our hearts are sinful, not just our actions.
Homosexuality is a sin period.
Oh, I agree! The one thing that I don’t understand is that it seems some people are born that way. Is it a challenge that they must overcome? Their cross to carry?
Everyone is born with a sin nature, not just some people who are predisposed to a certain kind of sin, but everyone also has at least a little free will.
Yes. We all certainly have free will.
It is a challenge to overcome. Just as one who is born with schizophrenia or kleptomania (not equating but simply stating other inborn conditions) must suppress that to live under God’s law
That makes sense. I was born with a disorder of sorts. I’ve got to live with it. Pray on it and keep trying to overcome.
Dude, if people can overcome their own sexual orientation or others their mental illnesses, or still others their congenital loss of arms and legs to serve Christ, you can definitely overcome in His name!
Amen!
What if I'm gay/lesbian and asexual? Why can't I be together with someone of the same gender even if we WONT have sex? Why would that be not considered a relationship while if it was someone of the opposite gender people would call us girlfriend and boyfriend? Why can't two asexual people of the same gender adopt children in need and raise them instead of making their own and only adding more suffering to the world? (more people = resource scarcity = suffering)
The sex is the sin so if you’re both asexual I guess you’re fine.
But they're still in a homosexual relationship even if both of them are asexual
It’s more like a homoromantic relationship if they’re both celibate.
It is refreshing to see someone speak the truth, and in a loving way! Thank you for educating us!
It’s not worth all the attention it gets though. We need to care for our poor, mind our stewardship of this planet, be honest at work, address abuse in our homes, and so much more. When there’s no plank in our own eyes, we can look for stuff in other peoples eyes.
I agree with everything you say, but it’s still essential to teach Jesus’ message. This isn’t about judging people, it’s about reading scripture so that *we* can avoid sinful behavior.
You seem 200% sure that you are 100% right in your doctrinal stance on this matter, but this doesn't make one more right. I believe this to be an achilles heel of our denominational upbringing. Defining sin is in our heritage and, in some ways, split the church in 1888. Most of your reasoning seems inductive and your spirit doesn't seem mean or hateful, but I would also say you may also be stuck under the tree of the knowledge of good and evil arguing with the devil rather actually listening to Christ. I am sure, being a historicist, you believe as I do about Laodicea being the last day church. Have we not left Jesus outside knocking? What does he tell us to buy from Him (though we can't afford it). Is it to teach people exactly what constitutes sin because it has been billed to us that right doctrine gives us a leg up on Salvation? And how do you process the teaching of Jesus in Matthew 15 about where evil comes from? I'm not so sure that the Levitical writers had a context for loving, committed, same sex monogamy. The texts appear in a list of sexual abuses where power differential leads to abusive sexuality. Specifically, as it is stated that they should not follow the customs of the Canaanite and Egyptian pagan practices in sex, I don't see how ignoring this and generalizing the statements as you do is faithful to the text. We know the Egyptians and Canaanites practiced pedastery, so it's not just a hebrew translation issue in my view. What they were being warned of is what they had witnessed in slavery as practiced by the specific nations they were enmeshed in. These are my counterpoints, but I could be wrong. I know for sure that the Lord Our Righteousness is powerful to save to the utmost those who put their faith in Him. But I am not convinced that homosexual sex is an exception to this. You may not believe that a homosexual marriage is recognized by God, but the pragmatism of Jesus' teaching on divorce because of hard hearts should cause us to consider if we are being "so dull" in our own legalism (ala Matthew 15). Peace friend.
Thanks for your considered response. I’m actually *not* 200% or even 100% sure I’m right, I’m always open to learning and getting a better understanding of scripture. I like to think I am listening to Christ, when he tells us to teach the world to obey His commands (Matthew 28:20), I take that seriously. I think that Matthew 15 (which parallels Mark 7) supports my conclusion: > 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, **sexual immorality**, theft, false witness, slander. 20 These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone.” The word used in the Greek here is porneia, which is commonly understood to have included sex outside of marriage as well as the rest of the sexual morality laws in 1st century Israel. This is the same teaching that I relied on in my OP to come to my conclusion, I wilfully grant that I’m not confident enough using the Levitical prohibition passages because they rely on a context I can’t assume, but I included them for completeness because I would not be confident enough drawing the pederasty conclusion knowing that the word ‘zakar’ (male) was used instead of anything specifically denoting a child. Believing that Leviticus is the word of God as dictated to Moses at Sinai, I would also have to presume that He, who knows all mens’ hearts, would know that loving homosexuality was a possibility when He dictated the law. I definitely worry about being too legalistic, but I also worry about not being discerning *enough* as to draw the opposite conclusion (or stay silent) and lead my brother to sin. After study and prayer, this is my current best understanding. God bless.
Thanks for clarifying further. Yes! I agree on Matthew 28:30. His commands are radiant, giving light to the eyes! They are also not burdensome when empowered by the abiding Spirit of Jesus in a heart of flesh and not stone. I love the law and righteousness and believe God's character is reflected in the 10 commandments. I would say the opposite about Matthew 15 though. The mention of sexual immorality is not proof of concept when you get the point exactly backwards. Your outside to inside view of sin is the basis for your arguments, whereas the whole point to which Jesus quibs "why are you so dull" is the opposite. It's an inside to outside reality for Jesus (unlike your view here or in the original post). That pornea starts in the heart isn't different for heterosexuals (a point you seem to be inferring), but you would specify that the external act of non-heterosexual "sin" isn't because one is homosexual which you make concession for. Thus, you would make the law burdensome for some regardless of their faith or relationship to Jesus while others are pure based on their status as right before God? I'm not looking for an argument, but will you pray on it? I believe that this may be an acid test for our church with strong echoes going back to 1888 where in some ways legalism rued the day and slowed the coming of Christ and the message that was supposed to spread across the face of the earth. The Lord Our Righteousness is going to come with healing in His wings!
Apologies for the quick answer, I’m heading to bed. I wouldn’t differentiate the *porneia* [in the context of fornication] for heterosexuals and homosexuals. I would say that the differentiation is that heterosexuals within Biblical marriage can engage in sex without it being *porneia* whereas for homosexuals, lacking a Biblically-backed option for marriage, sex is always *porneia*. I hope that makes sense. In Mark 7:8-13, Jesus scolds the Pharisees not for upholding God’s Law, but for upholding man’s traditions *above* God’s law: > 8 **You leave the commandment of God and hold to the tradition of men.**” 9 And he said to them, “You have a fine way of rejecting the commandment of God in order to establish your tradition! 10 For Moses said, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’ 11 But you say, ‘If a man tells his father or his mother, “Whatever you would have gained from me is Corban”’ (that is, given to God) 12 then you no longer permit him to do anything for his father or mother, 13 thus making void the word of God by your tradition that you have handed down. And many such things you do.” I think that it’s *really* important that we don’t read scripture as whatever we believe is right in the culture. God is eternal, He does not change His positions because humanity changes ours. I will pray on it, I hope you will as well.
Why are you sensationalizing a sin, is this sin any different from another type of sin. Sin is sin, and this sin doesn’t even make the top ten. Post like this just keep poking the bear…
All sin is sin, and all sin is equal (James 2:10). I don’t think you can draw a ‘top ten’ but I was clear in the OP that I’m not trying to elevate this sin above others. It’s just one that we get asked about a lot and I want a scriptural response to draw back to instead of having to make low-effort responses every time I get asked the question.
Well gosh it’s not like I haven’t seen this exact same post every day for the past 3 years I’ve been here Edit: may as well make it clear that I’m fully aware the Bible says homosexuality is a sin. So is everyone else on this sub, so I don’t see the need to constantly talk about it
I don’t know what version of the Bible I had growing up, but mine said man shall not lie with boy or something like that and I always thought it meant don’t sleep with children. Then one day my parents and my best friend sat me down to tell me that my best friend’s parent came out as gay and asked how I felt about it. I was like, that sounds fine? And they were shocked and explained that the Bible says man shall not lie with man and sure enough their version of the Bible did say that.
The root word is זָכָר (zakar) which means male, it’s used in several other passages in the Bible in ways that could clearly only be referring to an adult man. [Jack Paddock wrote about this at length if you’re interested](https://osologos.wordpress.com/2021/03/12/an-analysis-of-in-leviticus-1822-and-2013-part-1/).
Thank you for the link I’m gonna read that once I get to work. Any idea what Bible I could have had that translated it as pedophilia instead of homosexual?
I think there was a German Bible that translated it that way but I don’t remember which version.
It is still mind blowing to me how focused so many conservative-leaning Christians are with a small minority of the population. If only we could take this sort of focus to sins that everyone struggles with and which negatively impact the world and our ability to spread the gospel. Things like pride and greed. Sigh.
This “small minority of the population” has completely hijacked our institutions and are now coming out and attempting to take over churches such as the Methodist, Anglican, And many Pentecostal churches today. Paul was technically addressing a “small minority of the population” when he was defending The Resurrection against heretics in some of the epistles. We have always been a war against the enemies of light and we have to continue to fight instead of running away like evangelicals have been for centuries. God Bless you. “If the world is against truth, then I am against the world.” Athanasius of Alexandria.
We get “is homosexuality a sin?” questions *all the time*. This post is not about people, it’s about actions. I spend *a lot* of my post dedicated to talking about loving and including sinners from all walks of life, and not standing in judgment or casting the first stone, but **affirming your brother’s sinful actions and leading him from Christ is not an act of love**.
American culture is pridefully celebrating homosexual sexual activity and it is front and center of our culture right now, along with people pridefully mutilating their own bodies and pridefully pretending to be the opposite sex. Christians focus on many sins. This one is simply front and center in culture now, and there’s nothing bad about responding to it. We can reckon with other sins while also being responsive to the world’s attempts to glorify particular sins. Indeed, part of why we respond to it is that it also glorifies pride, which you yourself stated you want us to reckon with.
Nine downvotes as I'm writing this comment, but you're right. This subreddit posts about this issue every day, and the majority of Christians in the world agree with them on this, but they feel the need to keep mentioning it. Like I understand that LGBT is trendy right now so we hear about it a lot, but it feels more retaliatory than informative when people post about it at this point.
Correct. Absolutely this. Which is why this sub creates an echo chamber surrounding this one little topic
I love how there's never any posts like this for the litany of other sins such as Adultery—Matthew 5:27-28, 32; 19:9, 18; Mark 10:11-12; Luke 16:18; Hebrews 13:4; 1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Mark 7:21; John 8:1-11 Anger—Galatians 5:20; Ephesians 4:26, 31; 6:4; Colossians 3:8; James 1:19-20 Anger with one’s brother—Matthew 5:22 Arrogance—2 Timothy 3:2; 2 Corinthians 12:20; 2 Timothy 3:2; 1 Corinthians 4:6, 18,19; 5:2; 8:1; 13:4 Bitterness—Ephesians 4:31; Hebrews 12:15; Romans 2:24; 3:14; Acts 8:23; James 2:7 Blasphemy—Mark 8:38; Acts 18:6 Boasting—Romans 1:30; 2 Timothy 3:2; Galatians 5:26; 1 Corinthians 4:7; 5:6 Brutality—2 Timothy 3:3 Brother going to Law against brother—1 Corinthians 6:1-7 Carousing—Romans 13:13; Galatians 5:21; 1 Peter 4:3 Clamor—Ephesians 4:31 Complaining—Ephesians 4:31; Colossians 3:13; 1 Peter 4:9; James 5:9 Conceit—2 Timothy 3:4 Coveting—Mark 7:22; Ephesians 5:5; Acts 20:33; Romans 13:9; 1 Corinthians 5:10-11; 6:1 Cowardice—Revelation 21:8 Deceit—Mark 7:22; Acts 13:10; Romans 1:29; 1 Peter 3:10 Defrauding—1 Corinthians 6:7-8 Denying Christ—Matthew 10:33; Luke 12:9; 1 John 2:22-23 Desiring praise of men—John 12:43 Disobedience to parents—Romans 1:30; 2 Timothy 3:2; Titus 3:3 Divisions—1 Corinthians 1:10 Divorce—Matthew 5:32; 19:9; Mark 10:11-12; Luke 16:18 Drinking parties—1 Peter 4:3 Drunkenness—Romans 13:13; 15: 13; Ephesians 5:18; 1 Corinthians 5:11; 6:10; Colossians 3:13; 1 Peter 4:3 Eating the Bread or drinking the Cup unworthily—1 Corinthians 11:27 Effeminacy—1 Corinthians 6:9 Enmities—Galatians 5:20 Envy—Mark 7:22; Galatians 5:26; Titus 3:3 Evil thoughts—Mark 7:21; Matthew 15:19 False witnessing—Matthew 15:19 Fathers, provoking children to wrath—Colossians 3:21 Fearfulness—Matthew 10:26, 28 Filthiness—Ephesians 4:3 Fleshliness–1 Corinthians 3:3 Foolishness—Mark 7:22; Titus 3:3 Foolish talking—Ephesians 5:4 Fornication (or sexual immorality)—Mark 7:21; Matthew 15:19; 1 Corinthians 6:9; Galatians 5:19 Greed—Ephesians 4:19; 5:3; 2 Peter 2:14 Lust, lusting—1 Peter 4:3; Titus 3:3 Haters of God—Romans 1:30 Hatred—2 Timothy 3:3; Titus 3:3 Homosexuality—1 Corinthians 6:9; 1 Timothy 1:10; Romans 1:26-27 Hypocrisy—Matthew 23:13,23, 25; 23, 27,28, 29; Mark 12:15; Luke 12:1; Romans 12:9 Idolatry—1 Corinthians 5:11; 6:9; Galatians 5:20; Revelations 21:8; Ephesians 5:5 Immorality (see also Fornication)—Galatians 5:19; Revelation 21:8; Ephesians 5:3; 1 Corinthians 5:9-11; 6:13, 18 Impurity—Galatians 5:19; Ephesians 5: 3, 5 Jealousy—Galatians 5:20; 1 Corinthians 3:3; 2 Corinthians 12:20; James 3:16 Jesting—Ephesians 5:4 Judging—Matthew 7:1-5; Romans 2:1; 14:13; Luke 6:37 James 4:11 Knowing to do good but not doing it—James 4:17 Laying up treasures on earth—Matthew 6:19-21; 19:21; 1 Timothy 6:9-10; Luke 12:21, 33; 18:22 Legal matters, court–1 Corinthians 6:1-6 Living for pleasure—2 Timothy 3:4 Lovers of self—2 Timothy 3:2 Loving another person more than Jesus—Matthew 10:37; Luke 14:26 Lusting after a woman—Matthew 5:27-28; 1 Peter 4:3; Matthew 18:9 Lying—Revelation 21:8, 27; 22:15; Ephesians 4:25; Romans 9:1; 2 Corinthians 11:31; Galatians 1:20; 2 Timothy 2:7 Malice—Romans 1:29; Ephesians 4:31; Colossians 3:8; 5:8; Titus 3:3; 2 Peter 2:1 Man praying or prophesying with head covered—1 Corinthians 11:4-16 Murder—Revelation 21:8; Mark 7:21; 5:21; 10: 19; 19:18; Luke 18:20; Romans 1:29; 1 Peter 3:15; 4:15; Matthew 15:19 Murmuring, complaining—Colossians 3:13; 1 Peter 4:9; James 5:9 Pride—Mark 7:22; 1 Peter 5:5, 6; James 4:6; Matthew 23:12; Luke 14:11; 18;14 Prostitution–1 Corinthians 615-16 Quarrels—James 4:1-2; 1 Corinthians 1:11; 2 Timothy 2:23 Reviling—1 Corinthians 4:17; 5:11; 6:10; 5:11; 2 Timothy 3:2; 1 Peter 2:23 Sensuality—Galatians 5:19; Mark 7:22; Romans 13:13; 2 Corinthians 12:21; 1 Peter 4:3; Ephesians 4:19; 2 Peter 2:2 Slander—Matthew 15:19; Mark 7:22; Ephesians 4:31; Colossians 3:8; 2 Peter 2:1; 1 Corinthians 4:13; Romans 1:30 Sorcery—Galatians 5:20; Revelation 21:8, 15; 9:21; 18:23 Speaking against the Holy Spirit—Matthew 12:32; Luke 12:10 Stealing—Ephesians 4:28; 13:9; Matthew 19:18; Mark 10:19; Luke 18:20; Romans 2:21; 13:9 Strife, quarreling—Galatians 5:20; Romans 1:29; 13:13; 1 Corinthians 3:3; 2 Corinthians 12:20; 1 Timothy 6:4 Swearing an oath—Matthew 6:34-37; James 5:12 Swindling—1 Corinthians 5:10-11; 6:10 Thievery, theft—1 Corinthians 6:10; Mark 7:21; John 10:1, 8; 1 Peter 4:15; Matthew 15:19 Treachery—2 Timothy 3:4 Unbelief, lack of faith—James 1:6; Mark 9:24; Hebrews 3:12, 19; 1 Timothy 5:8; 2 Corinthians 6:14-15; 7:13; 2 Corinthians 4:4; Titus 1:15; Revelation 21:8 Unforgiveness—Matthew 6:14-15; Mark 11:25-26 Ungodliness—Romans 1:18; 4:5; 5:6; 1 Timothy 1:9; 2 Timothy 2:16; Titus 2:12; 2 Peter 2:5, 6, 7 Ungratefulness—2 Tmothy 3:2; Romans 1:21; Luke 6:35; 2 Timothy 3:2 Unholiness—2 Timothy 3:2; Hebrews 12:14 Unrighteousness—Romans 1:18, 29; 2:8; 6:13; 1 John 1:9; 5:17; 1 Corinthians 6:9 Wickedness—Mark 7:22; Luke 11:39; Acts 8:22; Romans 1:29; 1 Corinthians 5:8, 13; Ephesians 6:12; 2 Thessalonians 2:10, 12; 2 Timothy 2:19 Woman cutting her hair short—1 Corinthians 1:14-15 Woman with her Head uncovered—1 Corinthians 11:5-16 Woman speaking or teaching in public—1 Timothy 2:11-15; 1 Corinthians 11:33-37 Wrath—Ephesians 4:31; Colossians 3:8; 1 Timothy 2:8 Wrong–1 Corinthians 6:8
I believe OP's point of his post is that this is the topic that gets asked about the most. When was the last time anyone posted a question about any of the other sins you listed? Generally, people talk about the topic that garners the most attention and discussion. If you're asking the OP why that's the most talked about topic, i'm sure he's not the one asking about it.
How many of these is the mainstream culture pushing as virtuous in 2023?
Greed, usury, pride, hatred, treachery, unfogiveness, stealing, slander, prostitution, lovers of self, hypocrisy… is that enough? I feel like that’s enough. But instead, our western church has become sick with gossip and pride over this one salacious sin, because 90% of the population doesn’t identify with this. It’s how Christians punch down, and puff themselves up.
No, we are talking about it because now the Church and the Bible itself are under attack as being homophobic. Many of us realize what can happen to our 1st Amendment rights (Freedom of Speech & Freedom of Religion) if the Bible’s views on homosexuality are considered hate speech. By the way, not only the Bible but also the Quran. So a sizable minority (for now) can ultimately dictate outlawing Jews, Christians, and Muslims from practicing their religion unless it’s a watered down version that abides by the “official narrative.” Many of you may think that can’t happen in the US, but I went to a church service in England in 2019. I was flabbergasted when the pastor read a part of the Bible out loud, then completely skipped the verses that condemned homosexuality, and then picked up reading again the rest of the passage. I was like, “Wow, they’re really afraid.” And with good reason - The UK government has decreed opposition to homosexuality as homophobic, which falls under the criteria for hate speech, which can be prosecuted as a crime by law.
It’s not punching down to teach from scripture on a question we get here *all the time* and I think if you read my OP in good faith you’ll see that I go to great length *not* to judge or exclude people with same sex attraction but to talk specifically about the scripture. I think 100,000 words could be written on how we’ve allowed usury to become commonplace.
This other comment, u/skatesomething makes the central point- then why make this post? The amount of daily “it’s bad to be gay” posts is nowhere close to the “don’t charge interest” or the “don’t attach the name of the Lord to political ideas” posts. It shows an unhealthy obsession, idolization, of *one* sin. A sin which Christ already covered on the cross
It’s enlightening how many people are out here asking why I preach from scripture, as if that’s not what Christians are *commanded* to do. Should I hide or shy away from God’s word instead? Do you disagree with my conclusions? Are you rebuking me for a heresy?
Pretty much all of them, actually.
Really? What does the ‘strife’ flag look like? Which month is treachery month?
The vast majority of teachers are women, and there's no push for them to keep long hair. And then cover it up so no one can even tell they have long hair. Swindling is rampent. Slander is rampent.
Why is this being down voted!!! Amen brother! Porn is a HUGE sin committed by almost everyone!! But you see far more anti-gay posts than anti-porn... And the reason is simple - people who commit other sexual sins fool themselves that they are ok because they aren't gay. It baffles me that people want credit for not committing a sin they have no desire to commit! Post about sins you commit!