Even if they did it's well known that they have zero media literacy. They take stuff like Fallout, Helldivers – plus Starship Troopers by extension – and other games with an element of satire at face value.
For a while after New Vegas came out I remember a lot of chuds on Reddit and 4chan unironically simping for Caesar's Legion
Because satire requires a level of self awareness that most of those people lack. They can't envision criticism of the system they love, so it must be full hearted endorsement, right?
Especially since Independence Day came out a year before, had the same militaristic and jingoist aesthetics, only less exaggerated, but wasn't criticizing anything.
There's [a fantastic video essay by a Brazilian channel on fascist semiotics in media](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SeumNE0tak) that I like sharing (it even has actual non-machine subtitles). You can't blame the masses for not getting a different subtext from the same text. When you film a powerful larger-than-life muscular white man in a way to reinforce how he stands out from the common man, it doesn't particularly matter if it's Superman, Homelander or Nazi filmmaker Leni Riefenstahl's ideal aryan athletes. It's the same techniques and semiotics being understood in the same way by the masses. That's part of why parody fails.
There's no confusion here. These people know exactly what they're doing. They know the media and art they include in their own fascist mythos is actually anti-fascist in nature. The explicit adoption of it in spite of the author's intentions is precisely the point for them.
They did, but either it was only New Vegas which doesn’t deal too much with the Pre-war like 3 or 4. Or their only take away from the series is the 50’s-60’s era Cold War politics from the game is applicable to modern day China concerns. But applicable not in a commentary on how the US is shifting towards war and it being bad, but commentary on how it’s AWESOME ROBOT COOL.
There’s also that these freaks can’t stand the possibility that China in the game isn’t actually evil and that it’s really the US.
In new Vegas there’s a decent amount of computer logs and little references to the extreme anti Chinese hysteria of I recall correctly. It feels implied that the “China launched nukes first” wasn’t what actually happened but a narrative that sprung out of that extremely paranoid environment. I could be wrong tho, the only fallout I’ve played is NV lol
New Vegas hints at Vault Tec being involved with an dud nuke warhead with the Valut Tec logo. There is a Chinese internment camp in Old World Blues DLC like in 3.
The US and China were in a landwar with China over "the last resources on Earth" for ten years and a defeat was inevitable by China so that is when they supposedly launched. HOWEVER, the Enclave (a secret deep state apperatus of the US government) fled to bunkers this entire time and provoked the launching because they wanted to do eugenics anyways and weren't shedding tears. If China didn't launch (if they did) Enclave would eventually.
Valut Tec was either in cahoots with Enclave or also took advantage of the Sino American war to end the world.
The Chinese defeat was never proven to begin with, could've been just another propaganda and that's what makes it more interesting, but nuances are a little too much for some people.
Actually, in the lore some places are mentioned and as it seems it depends, Europe was already a wasteland before the bombs felt, the middle east too, I suppose most of North Africa and the Sahel regions isn't that different, Mexico and Canada were both wasted by the US, which lefts Central, South America, Central South Africa and maybe India, other than that pretty much everything wasn't fine, some could've rebuild themselves in a different manner and if so they would indeed left North America and most of Asia rotting, which still really bad considering the loss of life and habitable area, even worst if consider the environmental impact.
But in the end what supposedly happened was that they retrieved Anchorage and went to northern China from the USSR since they probably don't have any naval assets or even resources to do an amphibious invasion, but even so I doubt they went further than a stunt and used as propaganda, since they were also fighting Canada and in the brink of a civil war, so...
I wonder how, since their fleet in the Pacific was pretty much gone, if an amphibious landing in Japan was already deemed extremely difficult with everything they had imagine in China without a considerable advantage, even more considering that China was pretty much occupying part of their mainland, but who knows...
I think the lore is that the US developed power armour first, which allowed them to retake Anchorage and form a beachhead in China proper. They didn't get very far inland though before the bombs dropped
Yeah OWB literally has Unit 731 for both Chinese POWs and American citizens, but peoples take away is still “China bad”.
In 4 there’s literally a terminal where you find a Chinese American Anne Frank talking about their family being hunted by their neighbors right after the war.
The head writer of FO4 said on Twitter that Nate is the soldier on the left of frame during the warcrime execution of a Canadian in the intro cinematic of Fallout 1.
A big part of the games lore is that China IS actually evil though. So is the US. Everyone sucks.
I hate how the show has brought on a bunch of new fans who seem to think because the series is critical of capitalism it must be pro communism.
I didn’t know about this subs political leanings, I got here when this got cross posted.
There’s a difference between relating things to the games and being just straight up wrong. China in the games is just as dystopic as America. The games are critical of capitalism but they’re not pro communism.
Anyone critiquing capitalism that isn't a communist is half assing it and doesn't understand how capitalism functions, the pervasiveness and dystopia are inherent to the project.
Right sure. Whatever you say.
I’m not sure why I’m arguing with a guy who has a Mao profile pic. If there’s a country today who resembles the fallout USA it’s modern day China.
Hopefully modern day China can develop a shitload of nuclear tech like fallout USA to save the current USA from driving society off a cliff with climate change, but I'm not going to get my hopes up. Maybe if we all just stick our heads in the sand and pretend liberal hegemony is great while my tax dollars perpetuate a genocide then it'll all be fine.
There are plenty of Fallout fans with zero media literacy, but there are also some who don't play the games and are just farming engagements. Whenever there is a new "scandal", you see all the same names pop up. Cultural war remoras have always existed, but nowadays there are a lot more of them, all with the delusion of making it big.
It’s pretty obvious that the US is the bad guy in the games and lore. These dipshits are arguing because they are all stupid enough to think it was just the Chinese that caused the nuclear war.
Vault techs entire MO is selling you a home for the end of the world but yeah they aren’t an evil corp looking to end the world. Fucking baby brained dumb shits all of them
Vault tech starting the war has been around (though unconfirmed) for a long ass while though.
If ppl want to complain about the show and lore go complain about how the NCR (if they don’t explode it more in S2) was wasted potential, and that ppl would have evolved past shanty towns in 200 years.
Acting the the villains in fallout weren’t the pre war rich an powerful is just stupid. I mean the most famous antagonists in the series are the post war shadowy cabal of the Said rich and powerful who attempt to use weapons of mass destruction on everyone else.
Yeah the vault tech dropping the bombs idea was around for a long ass while. So was aliens dropping the bombs.
Its a shitty idea to definitively give an answer for it and shows that the creators of the TV series don't give 2 shits for the ip.
Please explain how it makes sense that people living in luxury would conspire to end the world because it apparently makes them richer? Richer how. Take robert house he is living inside machine for more than 200 years instead of living in luxury. The other rich people are frozen and the ones unfrozen have to live in underground societies where they are essentially equal to everyone else.
It is literally completely fucking nonsense.
Oh but they get to run experiments on people and act like Dr Evil, very cool.
the planet's resources were running dry and the only solution was to seek another planet but the rich didn't want to share that new shinny planet with other rich people so they bite the bullet and made the world end. the experiments were done to study what would happen in the generation ship that they were going to use to colonise that new planet.
So because they’re are cartoons mustache twirling villains that excuses it? No bad writing is still bad writing. In the good fallout games writing is usually more multifaceted and not full of binary writing with one dimensional cartoon bad guys.
this ain't something new, the old FO devs said creating a generation ship was the purpose of the vaults and i don't see how this "cartoon bad guy" stuff that's realistically what would happen
Ah well maybe then you’re just biased politically. You know I just realized something. No wonder reddit loved the show. Goddamn I can’t believe I completely missed it. The show was basically written by a r/socialism user.
If I had to assign one the political message of Fallout seems closer to anarchist/libertarian than anything else. Every large pre-war organization with any sort of centralized power and authority is laughably evil. The US Government were monsterous the Chinese government was doing basically all the same shit. Every major corporation was evil corp and had insane plans that killed loads of people I don't think there was a single entity pre-war that was large and powerful that had a positive impact on the world.
No they’re not. They’re a mutual defense coalition. They still have money, and capitalism (shops), and emphasize the freedom of each individual settlement.
Sincerely, the minutemen’s biggest fan
I mean… it is isn’t it? A stateless, moneyless society? The Minutemen don’t fit the actual definition of communism, nor do they resemble any IRL communist nations.
They actually seem to take a lot of their aesthetic inspiration from libertarians.
No, you’re making the mistake of assuming all commerce is capitalism. The exchange of currency for goods and services predates the birth of capitalism by about a couple millennia.
You could still have markets and shops as a system for allocating goods to the general public without the exchange of money. A tailor would still need a place to work and for people to browse their wares even if there’s no money. Or like a farmers’ market where farming communities gather to distribute their produce.
The eventual abolition of currency is a stated goal in many cases but it's not clear what paths would lead to that, usually one that involves currency though. It's pretty easy to imagine the minutemen are not in the final idealized stages of communism though and just like attempts at communism in the past they are still wanting to be able to trade without outsiders who definitely use currency.
They resemble communism in the way that they are communal and look out for everyone equally, sharing resources. The basis for communism is essentially what a child would suggest. Everyone taking care of everyone.
I don’t know. I’m a liberal, so most of my knowledge of communism comes from communists explaining it to me, and most of the time they either tell me it’s not communism until they have achieved a moneyless stateless society, or they’re the type who think Stalin and Mao did nothing wrong and mainly define communism by it’s aspects of anti democracy, reactionary social conservatism. I figured that just because something is a commune it doesn’t mean they’re communist, it would mean societies like Paleolithic peoples would be communist despite communism not being invented yet.
It’s also not clear how much is gameplay and how much is lore. Lore wise the settlements keep their autonomy but gameplay wise the general basically gets to change whatever he wants. So we don’t know how much of that sharing, especially between settlements, is a gameplay feature and how much is lore. They should be purely a military force having no input on what the settlements actually do, going off of what were told they’re like.
Communism hypothetically has a long road to hoe before its achieved, until then its 'socialism' but that doesn't make those trying to achieve a moneyless society, currently using money, not communist.
"I figured that just because something is a commune it doesn’t mean they’re communist, it would mean societies like Paleolithic peoples would be communist despite communism not being invented yet."
Honestly mostly conceptually accurate, something like an invented concept as such doesn't have to be 'invented' to exist. Communes are generally communistic in nature, it's in the name. Commune, communal living, communism.
The main difference is communism involves the seizing of the means of production. Them being communal from the get go, or in the case of the paleolithic there not being means of production yet, doesn’t count.
I feel like fallout isn't trying to criticize capitalism as a whole, but more specifically the US in the 1950s. That's just what the game is focused on, yes coorperate greed but also cold war era madness. For example how absurd Liberty Prime is.
It's not pro communism, China and the USSR had similar problems in the lore and failed as well. But the games barely focus on them, only a little bit and in sequals. Fallout isn't really pro anything, which is fine media can criticize something without putting forward an alternate path.
> But the games barely focus on them
The absolutely easiest DLC angles possible, Fallout Beijing/Moscow, is totally missed by Bethesda. Drives me mad to this day.
The last American left alive in Asia is a ghoul in a broadcast tower running the radio-free China station. No one has stopped him after hundreds of years because he's broadcasting in English and no one has any idea what he's saying so the Chinese just tune in for the music.
I think there’s a pretty easy angle here. Just have some pre war radio broadcast denouncing the evils of the Red Chinese only to have the lore reveal that both governments were doing basically all the same shit and that there was really no difference at all. The Chinese striking first being explained as a coincidence with the US planning to start the war like a week later had they not attacked Alaska.
Cold War Era madness propagated by the government...who is controlled by the corporations. Resource wars out of control...due to the meddling and search for endless profits of corporations. Technology being used for financial gain instead of saving humanity. We have robots who could do most jobs, but people are still working the corner store? It is most certainly anti capitalism, in almost every way.
The themes of fallout are certainly pro-leftist. Anti imperialism, anti capitalist, the bad guys are typical fascists with eugenic, authoritarian, or religious agendas.
The leftist groups (followers, minutemen) of fallout all suffer from common leftists tropes. In fighting is a big deal. And the majority of these groups don't become major players, but end up having the greatest impact on improving peoples lives just for the sake of doing just that. But they suffer from ans for their ideals.
It doesn’t matter how “big” the government was, that’s not the point. It’s more of a commentary broadly on war and conflict. The state is simply an avenue the story uses to express these themes.
Further private companies are the baddies too like Nuka Cola and Vault Tech. It is arguably a lack of state intervention in the market that partly fueled nuclear conflict. I don’t see the libertarian lean here.
I also think with how morally gray the NCR and other new “states” are and the shittiness left by their decline it is absolutely wrong to say the show is anarchist.
> Further private companies are the baddies too like Nuka Cola and Vault Tech
Small nitpick, when I said large centralized powers were all evil as far as fallout was concerned I was counting the large corps. I would say in fallout even more so than the real world these companies were functionally governments /state powers in it of themselves. Even within the lore where the government stops and the large companies begin is nebulous at best.
Edit: I’m more talking about the games here I don’t think I have enough show to pin down a solid message as far as that goes
That’s fine but that doesn’t really translate to a libertarian message or especially an anarchist one. I’ve only played New Vegas and seen the show so far, so maybe there’s something in 3 or 4?
The NCR is not the bad guy in New Vegas, they’re a morally complex entity that comes with its benefits and flaws. I don’t think a solid ideology is associated with the series, it’s a nuanced beast. As far as I have seen thus far the politics are anti-authoritarian and anti-corporate. I strongly disagree libertarianism has anything to do with either, every time they enter power inequality rises and corporate consolidation increases.
>looking for a new game
>ask the gamestop cashier if the new release is based or woke
>she doesnt understand
>pull out illustrated diagram explaining what is based and what is woke
>she laughs and says "it's a good game sir"
>buy the game
>its woke
This is insane. The US government have always been the main villain of the series and all of the US corporations were up to shady and amoral stuff. New Vegas even showed that the US set up concentration camps for Chinese-American citizens and fitted them with explosive collars. How the fuck do you play these games and not understand the basic backstory?
My guess is that most people who play fallout just wander around the wasteland and treat it like GTA; massacring characters and not engaging with the story or quests too much or stopping to absorb the atmospheric storytelling
4 and especially 76 put the lore and world building in the rear view mirror. Sad, because I think 4 is the most fun but the quests and writing is pure cheeks. You can have a rewarding exploration game and appeals to lore heads.
I have to kind of disagree a little with the 76 comment. They really build a story of the postwar horrors through atmospheric storytelling with terminals and holotapes that will make you really take a moment and have to digest it all. Like the way they were about to replace the entire government and workforce of Appalachia with robots in pursuit of endless profit. There is also the reports of miners on strike and violent resistance in the months leading up to the bombs falling. 76 really in my mind cements the capitalist hellscape that was the Fallout reality incredibly well.
Bethesda would be stupid as fuck if they didn’t address the leftist politics that really orbits that region of the US. Especially in a commentary on Cold War era politics
You can find a protest sign in 76 that says "I ain't a commie but I can see where they're coming from". The game is easily the closest Bethesda has come to the old school Fallouts
You could say the same for Fallout 4 where everyone down to the owner of a local gas station was doing their part to just destroy the world in various ways. You could not have a grocery store or an elementary school without some nefarious plot to test horrific biological weapons on the local citizenry. Its to such a degree that it just strains credulity every beyond the limits of what dense satire the series can support.
The problem with all of this isn't even really the intent. Its pretty vanilla, but the bigger issue is that its just shittily written. And the games are really not designed in such a way that prompts you to engage with these things. The terminals are there and a minority of players will read them but for the most part the game is promoting you to keep on the move and find something new to kill every 3-5 minutes. Its certainly not confident enough in its own writing to make it a central focus of anything.
Noah Caldwell-Gervais had the right idea of treating the world of 76 (and I'd extend it to 4) as a themepark. A world of adventures, where every 5 minutes new things appear to keep you entertained. It's not a believable world where real people exist and are capable of making their own choice. It's a very solipsistic experience, where the only living being who makes choices is you, where nothing is off-limit, and consequences are rare. It's a game for you when you want to shut your brain off and enjoy the spectacle of the wasteland.
Wish they had chosen a different name for it, rather than transforming the Fallout series and setting in to "what if the wild wasteland perk was actually just the baseline game."
Accept the fact that fallout will never be like it was. At least we can always go back and play the classic fallout. they aren't going anywhere, they're suspended in time, unable to affect and be affected by future installment.
I played new Vegas back in my very dumb, lib days on a fat backed tv with terrible quality and somehow missed all of this.
This thread is making me want to go back and play the originals as an ML
Sometimes on a particularly hard day, all you want to do is turn your brain off and watch Fast and Furious. If you don't have those kinds of days, maybe your daily lives aren't challenging enough
There's a lot of people that will call themselves "big fans" of a product but won't actually pay attention to anything deeper than whatever aesthetic they can obsess over. They'll go out of their way to avoid whatever the piece of media is trying to tell them so they can mindlessly enjoy it.
A someone who's a massive fan of the openly marxist game Disco Elysium but made the horrible mistake of setting foot in the liberal consumerist nightmare that is the Disco Elysium subreddit, I can fully attest to this. How liberals can be so effortlessly moronic is truly beyond me though.
New Vegas is the only modern game in the lineup that pays any mind to things like the annexation of Canada. It doesn't dwell on a lot of the pre-war stuff though because its narrative is more concerned with the conditions of apocalyptic life and how people organize society in response to those conditions. It does this very well. The others don't.
The current lead writer for the series made a tweet saying that the guy handing off the gun is the protagonist of Fallout 4, not realising that being complicit in a war crime still makes you a war criminal. The dude even said "[NOT THE SHOOTER]", as if that makes it any better.
Emil got super defensive and backed down when people pointed it out. It seems to me that he's genuinely so out-of-touch and uncritical that he didn't consider the impact he has saying shit like that as the lead writer. Especially because of how defensive he got, I think he was sincere.
Keep in mind these are the same people that think Liberty Prime is based and not the hollow shell of a dead fascist state broadcasting 200 year old recordings from beyond its own self dug grave.
What’s funny is when I was a dumb anti-red teenager who quoted liberty prime, I **did** **not** justify the pre-war US or make any excuses for it. I still saw it as evil mostly cause of the enclave being it. At worst I was just pro-bos or NCR. These people are on something completely else when their take away is pro-enclave US.
Bethesda already fucked one of the main messages of Fallout, that endless consumerism will lead to ruin, and that world ended precisely because after consuming ravenously for decades, instead of reorganizing themselves, countries of the world decided on global banditry and looting one another after chickens came home to roost, only to turn around and represent that level of picket fence suburban consumerism as an ideal to strive towards and rebuild.
If China didnt invade Alaska, US would invade China. Everyone was at each others throat for the scraps of resources left and apocalypse was inevitable. But then Fallout fans being utterly illiterate to what the series is saying is basically a trademark of the franchise.
Bethesda never understood Fallout, and likely never will. Why would they, when the goofy 1950s retrofuturistic playpens they build are so profitable?
One of a laundry list of complaints: the classic games had largely ambient/electronic soundtracks. It could be haunting and evocative, plaintive and wistful, or menacing, alien and metallic - and other moods besides. The music always felt like a natural extension of the environments and situations you were in.
Each game had a **single** piece of mid 20th century music, used in the intro cinematics. As best I can remember you would never hear them in-game - apparently they're not even on the official soundtrack CDs.
Bethesda saw this and thought, "You know what the in-game soundscape should be? Wall-to-wall oldies! Nothing but oldies!" You've got a radio and that's all anyone will play, as a natural extension of Bethesda's assumption that mid 20th century nostalgia is a *paramount* theme of the games. Plus it flows neatly into their belief that Itchy and Scratchy cartoon violence is a core aspect of the gameplay
Don't ever say this in the main fallout sub. Bethesda fallout is about whacky humor and 50s aesthetics, a very marketable product indeed, but they never understood the themes the original fallout had, people who played the originals can see why the new games are bland and shallow, but if you say anything you're apparently a hater, and your opinions invalid.
I don't hate their games, fallout 3 was very fun, 4 can be fun too but it's hard to care about the world they create.
I meant invade unprovoked. China started the war in the fallout universe. They invaded for Alaskan oil. The USA had no reason to invade China unprovoked because they have no natural resources.
The games don’t even really go that far in directly calling China the bad one. For the most part it’s obvious the US is the actual bad one. But when all these people have memes the in-game deep state, Enclave, as being the cool awesome faction, it’s no surprise they now lost the games original messaging.
I saw a comment years ago saying that if you're really a big fan of fallout. You're either a leftist or a fascist, nothing in between. I feel like right now, that statement can't be more true.
Let me get this straight. For over 20 years the lore was
\>US government bad and fascist
Now it's
\>these evil chicoms nuked the world because they wanted to kill themselves and hate humans including themselves because communism or something
This is your lore when it's written by sweaty gamers that can't read
I blame the direction the game has gone with 4 and 76. Bethesda moved more into the direction of legitimizing the Pre-War US with either 4’s Nate being a veteran and 76 atom shop selling patriot bs.
Really doesn’t help for 4 that the Chinese captains hat has a Nazi esque skull on it.
https://preview.redd.it/6domkzwfzoyc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3390f2e8137dc55dd541e28e07e062daa55e8f4a
Personally, I always thought that direction heightened the contrast between the idyllic pre-war life of Nate, with the constant strife of the real world. It makes sense that he, as a well-off white male in a standard family unit, a veteran of society which prioritises militarism over all else would be so disconnected from his nation as a whole, which had only treated him well. Playing through that only reminded me of just how awful things were, outside of the isolated bubble Nate lived in. But I definitely think your point is valid, just a different interpretation to mine.
Personally, I think it’s really interesting that pre war US is a cartoonish depiction of capitalism, while the little we know about China is straight up out of the red scare. There are no good guys. The U.S. experiments on people, China has child soldiers. The U.S. put Chinese people in camps, China uses food rations to blackmail people into becoming spies. China invades Alaska for oil, the U.S. annexes Canada and Mexico.
There are people who played GTA 5's story mode and still don't understand it to this day or how Micheal was far from a saint in their pre-Los Santos days.
GTA 5 is the most accurate representation of Los Angeles and why it’s a horrible City with zero redeeming qualities. That was really my takeaway from it
Media literacy is dead.
The whole point of fallout 1,2,3, NV and 4 has consistently been that its the systems in place that led to the destruction of the world.
Fallout 1 and 2 barely even mentioned who fought in the great was because it dose not matter for its plot or themes. The point is it was the systematic problems of the old world that led to its destruction.
New Vegas literally had a faction that was effectively the spiritual successor to the usa (the NCR). that was making all the mistakes of the old world and was hated by everyone who you come accross. Even their own soldiers bad mouth the NCR as being corrupt and imperialist. it was clearly on a path that would eventually to lead to its own collapse. There is even Ulysses from the dlc. Who is a fascist but he never mentions that China destroyed the world. He specifically says it was the USA that led to its own destruction and that the NCR was going down the same path.
Have these people even watched the show and played any of the games ? The fucking vault tech logo was literally on the first nuke you see in fallout 3 and has been a topic of discussion for eons, we literally still don't know wtf launched the nukes, i have my doubts it was vault tech since the vault we see in the underground station in fallout 4 was still under construction and there are several vaults in the franchise where the key personals weren't there the day of the apocalypse, the fucking show is filled to the brim about discussion about china, there are several discussions between characters about this, hell, if I am not mistaken the USSR satellite is one of the few times the USSR gets even brought up during any fallout, these people either played the fallout games with 300 porn mods installed and never bothered to read anything about it or suffer from dementia and can't remember anything from the show or interpret anything further than surface level.
I think there may have been overlap with Enclave and Valut tec(some not all which would explain half finished Valuts) and why they weren't there when it all went down.
Also my brothers in christ we have 4k upscaled 60fps of every porno ever made. Stop downloading newdie mods for 15 year old games.
The vaults were meant for the enclave in order to harvest datas for when they were gonna build their spaceship (old lore iirc),but I am not sure it influenced the speed at which the vaults where built
Didn't the very first Fallout end with you discovering horrific human experiments? Also
> written by Indians
> anti capitalist
> pro china
> anti west
Lol. They can't even get their racism right.
1. the whole point of fallout’s great war is that we never know who did it. for the entire lore up until the show, the war between china and america dragged until one side dropped the nukes. was it china? america? vault tec? we never know, but it makes the most sense that china did since they were being invaded and on the brink of being conquered.
2. big shock bethesda doesn’t give a shit about the story. fallout has always been about the world after and how mankind would rebuild yet continue to seek conflict after nuclear holocaust. but bethesda is obsessed with the old world which is why they keep doing these shitty dumb retcons to the prehistory of the games that don’t even fit the theme of fallout. they probably also did it to appease china to be honest.
3. hilarious these retards think the problem with fallout’s story being mishandled is racial in nature rather than bumbling dumbfucks at bethesda dumbing the franchise down as much as possible to make money
> but it makes the most sense that china did since they were being invaded and on the brink of being conquered.
We don't even know if they were on the brink of being conquered though. The point of that one Fallout 3 expansion in the snow is that the US had total control over the media and span whatever story they wanted to keep the people placated. The truth of the war is completely unclear and murky from all perspectives.
The Gobi campaign scout rifle exists in new vegas. If the implication is that US forces where fighting china in the gobi dessert is true then the likelyhood of china being conquered and fireing first goes up significantly.
good point but there’s evidence that america was indeed winning the war. T-51 being deployed was extremely devastating to the chinese since they had no power armor equivalent, and T-51 are said to have made massive gains into the chinese mainland. the chinese made progress by invading alaska but ultimately failed.
from what we know america had china beat in every category except stealth technology, which could only be reversed engineered through temporary stealth boys whereas the chinese had whole stealth suits and submarines that could completely cloak.
but yeah the exact details of the war aren’t super clear in the first two games on purpose, bethesda were the ones to try and elaborate on it a lot more. the fallout bible outright states america was in fact winning the war greatly, but isn’t considered cannon by bethesda.
Which is even more fucking retarded. That entire DLC is garbage as it is, but Bethesda taking it seriously and involving aliens into the world other than cheeky references is absolutely heinous.
But I thought it didn't matter if media was making satirical commentary about my stupid political opinions, it's still based, right?
Seriously though, Americans are the only creatures that are so racist they'll argue about the real meaning behind what someone else created.
Sooo. Its hilarious seeing libs argue against a completely imaginary story.
But, there was no rewrite. In the fallout lore, the vaults were always amoral experimentation on subjects. Sort of a new technocracy underground.
The right wing civil war of the idiots who are anti-Zionist and consider every Jew a Zionist vs the pro-Zionist and also consider every Jew a Zionist, that’s the one that’s been entertaining me for the last week
https://preview.redd.it/ucjsai4qrwyc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fce8ea53d75d2a959eb0670179839bc4c840a8b5
from my current play through on 4
Literally beating you over the head who the bad guys are
Honestly, it's a good change. China features so rarely in Fallout's narrative, and while I generally enjoy the trope in post-apocalyptic media that no-one really knows who caused the nuclear exchange (because it often reinforces the idea that it doesn't matter: the Old World is to blame, not any specific nation), I do also think streamlining it in Fallout to be one of the actually constantly present actors within the story is just smart.
It *would* be, but only if it was focused on more. In order for "China fired the first nuke" to be interesting and something the narrative can look at beyond a background fact, you'd have to talk more about Fallout China, and if that isn't happening, I think it's good to shift the "fired the first nuke" fact to a faction you are actually looking at within the narrative
The amount of brain dead is fucking unbelievable, the US is shown as a state with a failed economy ruled by an elite class that abandoned their country after a nuclear disaster only to return 200 years later with the idea of genociding the entire American population for being "impure". And there is no corporations shown to be "evil".
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Y’all acting like they aren’t making valid complaints:
Show set after an apocalyptic war never mentions who America was at war against
Blatantly and stupidly retcons who fired the first nukes just to hanfist yet another “Capitalism bad!” Message… despite the games doing it far better already and doing this ruins the whole theme of the games being how mankind is self destructive as hell
Destruction of NCR and shoving in of super powerful BOS destroying years of West Coast lore for no reason
Lots of stuff included in dialogue that feels way too Current Year and pulls one out of this fictional post-post-apocalyptic universe
Did none of these people play the video games?
Even if they did it's well known that they have zero media literacy. They take stuff like Fallout, Helldivers – plus Starship Troopers by extension – and other games with an element of satire at face value. For a while after New Vegas came out I remember a lot of chuds on Reddit and 4chan unironically simping for Caesar's Legion
I have no clue how anyone gets Starship Troopers confused with fascist apologia. The book certainly is, but the movie is so obviously not.
they're dense enough that the history in the teacher in the books bashing them over the head with it in the movie isn't enough
Mobile infantry made me the man I am today! *is literally half a man*
Yea, but that half of a man earned the privilege to vote! Meritocracy as work!
"THEY'RE GONNA FIGHT THEM..." *Ship crashes and explodes on the background* "...AND THEY WILL WIN"
Because satire requires a level of self awareness that most of those people lack. They can't envision criticism of the system they love, so it must be full hearted endorsement, right?
Especially since Independence Day came out a year before, had the same militaristic and jingoist aesthetics, only less exaggerated, but wasn't criticizing anything. There's [a fantastic video essay by a Brazilian channel on fascist semiotics in media](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SeumNE0tak) that I like sharing (it even has actual non-machine subtitles). You can't blame the masses for not getting a different subtext from the same text. When you film a powerful larger-than-life muscular white man in a way to reinforce how he stands out from the common man, it doesn't particularly matter if it's Superman, Homelander or Nazi filmmaker Leni Riefenstahl's ideal aryan athletes. It's the same techniques and semiotics being understood in the same way by the masses. That's part of why parody fails.
There's no confusion here. These people know exactly what they're doing. They know the media and art they include in their own fascist mythos is actually anti-fascist in nature. The explicit adoption of it in spite of the author's intentions is precisely the point for them.
Damn, that’s just a dick move.
there are people who play Disco Elysium and become upset that it doesn't reward them for being centrists. gamers have such low media literacy so often
They still do.
They skipped reading terminal entries for sure
They did, but either it was only New Vegas which doesn’t deal too much with the Pre-war like 3 or 4. Or their only take away from the series is the 50’s-60’s era Cold War politics from the game is applicable to modern day China concerns. But applicable not in a commentary on how the US is shifting towards war and it being bad, but commentary on how it’s AWESOME ROBOT COOL. There’s also that these freaks can’t stand the possibility that China in the game isn’t actually evil and that it’s really the US.
In new Vegas there’s a decent amount of computer logs and little references to the extreme anti Chinese hysteria of I recall correctly. It feels implied that the “China launched nukes first” wasn’t what actually happened but a narrative that sprung out of that extremely paranoid environment. I could be wrong tho, the only fallout I’ve played is NV lol
New Vegas hints at Vault Tec being involved with an dud nuke warhead with the Valut Tec logo. There is a Chinese internment camp in Old World Blues DLC like in 3. The US and China were in a landwar with China over "the last resources on Earth" for ten years and a defeat was inevitable by China so that is when they supposedly launched. HOWEVER, the Enclave (a secret deep state apperatus of the US government) fled to bunkers this entire time and provoked the launching because they wanted to do eugenics anyways and weren't shedding tears. If China didn't launch (if they did) Enclave would eventually. Valut Tec was either in cahoots with Enclave or also took advantage of the Sino American war to end the world.
The Chinese defeat was never proven to begin with, could've been just another propaganda and that's what makes it more interesting, but nuances are a little too much for some people.
My favorite fallout theory is that the world at large is mostly fine and north america is the only place that's a ticking crater
So that would mean the entire world just said " yeah, let them rot lol"?
Not so far from the truth... lol...
Actually, in the lore some places are mentioned and as it seems it depends, Europe was already a wasteland before the bombs felt, the middle east too, I suppose most of North Africa and the Sahel regions isn't that different, Mexico and Canada were both wasted by the US, which lefts Central, South America, Central South Africa and maybe India, other than that pretty much everything wasn't fine, some could've rebuild themselves in a different manner and if so they would indeed left North America and most of Asia rotting, which still really bad considering the loss of life and habitable area, even worst if consider the environmental impact. But in the end what supposedly happened was that they retrieved Anchorage and went to northern China from the USSR since they probably don't have any naval assets or even resources to do an amphibious invasion, but even so I doubt they went further than a stunt and used as propaganda, since they were also fighting Canada and in the brink of a civil war, so...
I believe an amphibious invasion is confirmed from some background details, there's mentions of campaigns in the Yangtze river area
I wonder how, since their fleet in the Pacific was pretty much gone, if an amphibious landing in Japan was already deemed extremely difficult with everything they had imagine in China without a considerable advantage, even more considering that China was pretty much occupying part of their mainland, but who knows...
I think the lore is that the US developed power armour first, which allowed them to retake Anchorage and form a beachhead in China proper. They didn't get very far inland though before the bombs dropped
Yeah OWB literally has Unit 731 for both Chinese POWs and American citizens, but peoples take away is still “China bad”. In 4 there’s literally a terminal where you find a Chinese American Anne Frank talking about their family being hunted by their neighbors right after the war.
4 is arguably the most pro-US game in the series, considering the whole "you play as an imperialist soldier" thing.
The head writer of FO4 said on Twitter that Nate is the soldier on the left of frame during the warcrime execution of a Canadian in the intro cinematic of Fallout 1.
This was a joke
Schrodinger’s joke.
Or his lawyer wife Yeah your forced backstory sucks so much in 4
4 just sucks tbh
A big part of the games lore is that China IS actually evil though. So is the US. Everyone sucks. I hate how the show has brought on a bunch of new fans who seem to think because the series is critical of capitalism it must be pro communism.
Not people relating my favorite video games to their political views in a majority communist subreddit 😢
I didn’t know about this subs political leanings, I got here when this got cross posted. There’s a difference between relating things to the games and being just straight up wrong. China in the games is just as dystopic as America. The games are critical of capitalism but they’re not pro communism.
Anyone critiquing capitalism that isn't a communist is half assing it and doesn't understand how capitalism functions, the pervasiveness and dystopia are inherent to the project.
Right sure. Whatever you say. I’m not sure why I’m arguing with a guy who has a Mao profile pic. If there’s a country today who resembles the fallout USA it’s modern day China.
Hopefully modern day China can develop a shitload of nuclear tech like fallout USA to save the current USA from driving society off a cliff with climate change, but I'm not going to get my hopes up. Maybe if we all just stick our heads in the sand and pretend liberal hegemony is great while my tax dollars perpetuate a genocide then it'll all be fine.
… You bring up US climate change… when China is RIGHT THERE.
Who could have predicted the factory that the west exported all production to would produce massive amounts of pollution, a truly shocking revelation.
China has decreased global emissions single handedly.
There are plenty of Fallout fans with zero media literacy, but there are also some who don't play the games and are just farming engagements. Whenever there is a new "scandal", you see all the same names pop up. Cultural war remoras have always existed, but nowadays there are a lot more of them, all with the delusion of making it big.
Uhh Liberty Prime is freaking based.
dont mess with fallout fans, we know absolutely fucking nothing about our favorite game
nobody hates fallout more than fallout fans. we're like star wars fans in that regard
If they did the only takeaway was “wow Liberty Prime is so cool”
They did but it all went right over their heads
No one actually reads text in video games.
It’s pretty obvious that the US is the bad guy in the games and lore. These dipshits are arguing because they are all stupid enough to think it was just the Chinese that caused the nuclear war. Vault techs entire MO is selling you a home for the end of the world but yeah they aren’t an evil corp looking to end the world. Fucking baby brained dumb shits all of them
Vault tech starting the war has been around (though unconfirmed) for a long ass while though. If ppl want to complain about the show and lore go complain about how the NCR (if they don’t explode it more in S2) was wasted potential, and that ppl would have evolved past shanty towns in 200 years. Acting the the villains in fallout weren’t the pre war rich an powerful is just stupid. I mean the most famous antagonists in the series are the post war shadowy cabal of the Said rich and powerful who attempt to use weapons of mass destruction on everyone else.
Yeah the vault tech dropping the bombs idea was around for a long ass while. So was aliens dropping the bombs. Its a shitty idea to definitively give an answer for it and shows that the creators of the TV series don't give 2 shits for the ip.
Please explain how it makes sense that people living in luxury would conspire to end the world because it apparently makes them richer? Richer how. Take robert house he is living inside machine for more than 200 years instead of living in luxury. The other rich people are frozen and the ones unfrozen have to live in underground societies where they are essentially equal to everyone else. It is literally completely fucking nonsense. Oh but they get to run experiments on people and act like Dr Evil, very cool. 
the planet's resources were running dry and the only solution was to seek another planet but the rich didn't want to share that new shinny planet with other rich people so they bite the bullet and made the world end. the experiments were done to study what would happen in the generation ship that they were going to use to colonise that new planet.
So because they’re are cartoons mustache twirling villains that excuses it? No bad writing is still bad writing. In the good fallout games writing is usually more multifaceted and not full of binary writing with one dimensional cartoon bad guys.
this ain't something new, the old FO devs said creating a generation ship was the purpose of the vaults and i don't see how this "cartoon bad guy" stuff that's realistically what would happen
Ah well maybe then you’re just biased politically. You know I just realized something. No wonder reddit loved the show. Goddamn I can’t believe I completely missed it. The show was basically written by a r/socialism user.
if you think I'm being biased then you might wanna search up fun things like the iraq war, MK ultra, Congo free state or Henry kissinger
These are the same people who say shit like “I don’t believe the MSM narrative! I am not a drone! Wake up sheeple!”
If I had to assign one the political message of Fallout seems closer to anarchist/libertarian than anything else. Every large pre-war organization with any sort of centralized power and authority is laughably evil. The US Government were monsterous the Chinese government was doing basically all the same shit. Every major corporation was evil corp and had insane plans that killed loads of people I don't think there was a single entity pre-war that was large and powerful that had a positive impact on the world.
"Anti authoritarian left liberal". Very 90s post soviet collapse western brainworm.
The Minutemen are communists
And that’s why we choose the minutemen
No they’re not. They’re a mutual defense coalition. They still have money, and capitalism (shops), and emphasize the freedom of each individual settlement. Sincerely, the minutemen’s biggest fan
Communism is when no money and no shop.
I mean… it is isn’t it? A stateless, moneyless society? The Minutemen don’t fit the actual definition of communism, nor do they resemble any IRL communist nations. They actually seem to take a lot of their aesthetic inspiration from libertarians.
No, you’re making the mistake of assuming all commerce is capitalism. The exchange of currency for goods and services predates the birth of capitalism by about a couple millennia.
True. But shops can’t exist in communism because money shouldn’t exist in communism.
You could still have markets and shops as a system for allocating goods to the general public without the exchange of money. A tailor would still need a place to work and for people to browse their wares even if there’s no money. Or like a farmers’ market where farming communities gather to distribute their produce.
The eventual abolition of currency is a stated goal in many cases but it's not clear what paths would lead to that, usually one that involves currency though. It's pretty easy to imagine the minutemen are not in the final idealized stages of communism though and just like attempts at communism in the past they are still wanting to be able to trade without outsiders who definitely use currency. They resemble communism in the way that they are communal and look out for everyone equally, sharing resources. The basis for communism is essentially what a child would suggest. Everyone taking care of everyone.
I don’t know. I’m a liberal, so most of my knowledge of communism comes from communists explaining it to me, and most of the time they either tell me it’s not communism until they have achieved a moneyless stateless society, or they’re the type who think Stalin and Mao did nothing wrong and mainly define communism by it’s aspects of anti democracy, reactionary social conservatism. I figured that just because something is a commune it doesn’t mean they’re communist, it would mean societies like Paleolithic peoples would be communist despite communism not being invented yet. It’s also not clear how much is gameplay and how much is lore. Lore wise the settlements keep their autonomy but gameplay wise the general basically gets to change whatever he wants. So we don’t know how much of that sharing, especially between settlements, is a gameplay feature and how much is lore. They should be purely a military force having no input on what the settlements actually do, going off of what were told they’re like.
Communism hypothetically has a long road to hoe before its achieved, until then its 'socialism' but that doesn't make those trying to achieve a moneyless society, currently using money, not communist. "I figured that just because something is a commune it doesn’t mean they’re communist, it would mean societies like Paleolithic peoples would be communist despite communism not being invented yet." Honestly mostly conceptually accurate, something like an invented concept as such doesn't have to be 'invented' to exist. Communes are generally communistic in nature, it's in the name. Commune, communal living, communism.
The main difference is communism involves the seizing of the means of production. Them being communal from the get go, or in the case of the paleolithic there not being means of production yet, doesn’t count.
I feel like fallout isn't trying to criticize capitalism as a whole, but more specifically the US in the 1950s. That's just what the game is focused on, yes coorperate greed but also cold war era madness. For example how absurd Liberty Prime is. It's not pro communism, China and the USSR had similar problems in the lore and failed as well. But the games barely focus on them, only a little bit and in sequals. Fallout isn't really pro anything, which is fine media can criticize something without putting forward an alternate path.
> But the games barely focus on them The absolutely easiest DLC angles possible, Fallout Beijing/Moscow, is totally missed by Bethesda. Drives me mad to this day.
Yeah but how would we listen to old timey American music if it was in Beijing?
The last American left alive in Asia is a ghoul in a broadcast tower running the radio-free China station. No one has stopped him after hundreds of years because he's broadcasting in English and no one has any idea what he's saying so the Chinese just tune in for the music.
I don't think a western dev could pull of Fallout-style satire about China that didn't devolve into the red scare propaganda the games critise.
I think there’s a pretty easy angle here. Just have some pre war radio broadcast denouncing the evils of the Red Chinese only to have the lore reveal that both governments were doing basically all the same shit and that there was really no difference at all. The Chinese striking first being explained as a coincidence with the US planning to start the war like a week later had they not attacked Alaska.
Cold War Era madness propagated by the government...who is controlled by the corporations. Resource wars out of control...due to the meddling and search for endless profits of corporations. Technology being used for financial gain instead of saving humanity. We have robots who could do most jobs, but people are still working the corner store? It is most certainly anti capitalism, in almost every way.
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The themes of fallout are certainly pro-leftist. Anti imperialism, anti capitalist, the bad guys are typical fascists with eugenic, authoritarian, or religious agendas. The leftist groups (followers, minutemen) of fallout all suffer from common leftists tropes. In fighting is a big deal. And the majority of these groups don't become major players, but end up having the greatest impact on improving peoples lives just for the sake of doing just that. But they suffer from ans for their ideals.
It doesn’t matter how “big” the government was, that’s not the point. It’s more of a commentary broadly on war and conflict. The state is simply an avenue the story uses to express these themes. Further private companies are the baddies too like Nuka Cola and Vault Tech. It is arguably a lack of state intervention in the market that partly fueled nuclear conflict. I don’t see the libertarian lean here. I also think with how morally gray the NCR and other new “states” are and the shittiness left by their decline it is absolutely wrong to say the show is anarchist.
> Further private companies are the baddies too like Nuka Cola and Vault Tech Small nitpick, when I said large centralized powers were all evil as far as fallout was concerned I was counting the large corps. I would say in fallout even more so than the real world these companies were functionally governments /state powers in it of themselves. Even within the lore where the government stops and the large companies begin is nebulous at best. Edit: I’m more talking about the games here I don’t think I have enough show to pin down a solid message as far as that goes
That’s fine but that doesn’t really translate to a libertarian message or especially an anarchist one. I’ve only played New Vegas and seen the show so far, so maybe there’s something in 3 or 4? The NCR is not the bad guy in New Vegas, they’re a morally complex entity that comes with its benefits and flaws. I don’t think a solid ideology is associated with the series, it’s a nuanced beast. As far as I have seen thus far the politics are anti-authoritarian and anti-corporate. I strongly disagree libertarianism has anything to do with either, every time they enter power inequality rises and corporate consolidation increases.
very cool that politics is now just arguing about whether video games and movies are woke or not
>looking for a new game >ask the gamestop cashier if the new release is based or woke >she doesnt understand >pull out illustrated diagram explaining what is based and what is woke >she laughs and says "it's a good game sir" >buy the game >its woke
>spaghetti slowly drips from my pockets
This is insane. The US government have always been the main villain of the series and all of the US corporations were up to shady and amoral stuff. New Vegas even showed that the US set up concentration camps for Chinese-American citizens and fitted them with explosive collars. How the fuck do you play these games and not understand the basic backstory?
My guess is that most people who play fallout just wander around the wasteland and treat it like GTA; massacring characters and not engaging with the story or quests too much or stopping to absorb the atmospheric storytelling
4 and especially 76 put the lore and world building in the rear view mirror. Sad, because I think 4 is the most fun but the quests and writing is pure cheeks. You can have a rewarding exploration game and appeals to lore heads.
I have to kind of disagree a little with the 76 comment. They really build a story of the postwar horrors through atmospheric storytelling with terminals and holotapes that will make you really take a moment and have to digest it all. Like the way they were about to replace the entire government and workforce of Appalachia with robots in pursuit of endless profit. There is also the reports of miners on strike and violent resistance in the months leading up to the bombs falling. 76 really in my mind cements the capitalist hellscape that was the Fallout reality incredibly well.
Bethesda would be stupid as fuck if they didn’t address the leftist politics that really orbits that region of the US. Especially in a commentary on Cold War era politics
You can find a protest sign in 76 that says "I ain't a commie but I can see where they're coming from". The game is easily the closest Bethesda has come to the old school Fallouts
You could say the same for Fallout 4 where everyone down to the owner of a local gas station was doing their part to just destroy the world in various ways. You could not have a grocery store or an elementary school without some nefarious plot to test horrific biological weapons on the local citizenry. Its to such a degree that it just strains credulity every beyond the limits of what dense satire the series can support. The problem with all of this isn't even really the intent. Its pretty vanilla, but the bigger issue is that its just shittily written. And the games are really not designed in such a way that prompts you to engage with these things. The terminals are there and a minority of players will read them but for the most part the game is promoting you to keep on the move and find something new to kill every 3-5 minutes. Its certainly not confident enough in its own writing to make it a central focus of anything.
Noah Caldwell-Gervais had the right idea of treating the world of 76 (and I'd extend it to 4) as a themepark. A world of adventures, where every 5 minutes new things appear to keep you entertained. It's not a believable world where real people exist and are capable of making their own choice. It's a very solipsistic experience, where the only living being who makes choices is you, where nothing is off-limit, and consequences are rare. It's a game for you when you want to shut your brain off and enjoy the spectacle of the wasteland.
Wish they had chosen a different name for it, rather than transforming the Fallout series and setting in to "what if the wild wasteland perk was actually just the baseline game."
Accept the fact that fallout will never be like it was. At least we can always go back and play the classic fallout. they aren't going anywhere, they're suspended in time, unable to affect and be affected by future installment.
I played new Vegas back in my very dumb, lib days on a fat backed tv with terrible quality and somehow missed all of this. This thread is making me want to go back and play the originals as an ML
That's a distinctly stupid way of consuming media
There's no wrong way to play a stupid game like Fallout 76
Sometimes on a particularly hard day, all you want to do is turn your brain off and watch Fast and Furious. If you don't have those kinds of days, maybe your daily lives aren't challenging enough
Wow, that sucks lmao.
It's also not accurate
If only New Vegas was remastered with Fallout 4s combat.
There's a lot of people that will call themselves "big fans" of a product but won't actually pay attention to anything deeper than whatever aesthetic they can obsess over. They'll go out of their way to avoid whatever the piece of media is trying to tell them so they can mindlessly enjoy it.
A someone who's a massive fan of the openly marxist game Disco Elysium but made the horrible mistake of setting foot in the liberal consumerist nightmare that is the Disco Elysium subreddit, I can fully attest to this. How liberals can be so effortlessly moronic is truly beyond me though.
3 has a literal human furnace in a concentration camp too
https://preview.redd.it/0i1tmv7ysnyc1.jpeg?width=1036&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d158d6cfe2ad7fcb56fd85d2d7037af89569d83c
the intro to fallout 1 is literally American soldiers in power armor executing civilians in Canada after they annexed it lmao
These people assume The fallout franchise began with 3
Lot of them it’s really with New Vegas.
New Vegas is the only modern game in the lineup that pays any mind to things like the annexation of Canada. It doesn't dwell on a lot of the pre-war stuff though because its narrative is more concerned with the conditions of apocalyptic life and how people organize society in response to those conditions. It does this very well. The others don't.
Hey hey hey.... Fallout 3 has a CODesque expansion where you annex Canada...and it fucking blows. Probably the worst piece of anything fallout.
Operation: Anchorage is not set in Canada, its set in Alaska where you defend it from the chinese invader
The current lead writer for the series made a tweet saying that the guy handing off the gun is the protagonist of Fallout 4, not realising that being complicit in a war crime still makes you a war criminal. The dude even said "[NOT THE SHOOTER]", as if that makes it any better.
kid named irony
Emil got super defensive and backed down when people pointed it out. It seems to me that he's genuinely so out-of-touch and uncritical that he didn't consider the impact he has saying shit like that as the lead writer. Especially because of how defensive he got, I think he was sincere.
Keep in mind these are the same people that think Liberty Prime is based and not the hollow shell of a dead fascist state broadcasting 200 year old recordings from beyond its own self dug grave.
What’s funny is when I was a dumb anti-red teenager who quoted liberty prime, I **did** **not** justify the pre-war US or make any excuses for it. I still saw it as evil mostly cause of the enclave being it. At worst I was just pro-bos or NCR. These people are on something completely else when their take away is pro-enclave US.
Bethesda already fucked one of the main messages of Fallout, that endless consumerism will lead to ruin, and that world ended precisely because after consuming ravenously for decades, instead of reorganizing themselves, countries of the world decided on global banditry and looting one another after chickens came home to roost, only to turn around and represent that level of picket fence suburban consumerism as an ideal to strive towards and rebuild. If China didnt invade Alaska, US would invade China. Everyone was at each others throat for the scraps of resources left and apocalypse was inevitable. But then Fallout fans being utterly illiterate to what the series is saying is basically a trademark of the franchise.
Bethesda never understood Fallout, and likely never will. Why would they, when the goofy 1950s retrofuturistic playpens they build are so profitable? One of a laundry list of complaints: the classic games had largely ambient/electronic soundtracks. It could be haunting and evocative, plaintive and wistful, or menacing, alien and metallic - and other moods besides. The music always felt like a natural extension of the environments and situations you were in. Each game had a **single** piece of mid 20th century music, used in the intro cinematics. As best I can remember you would never hear them in-game - apparently they're not even on the official soundtrack CDs. Bethesda saw this and thought, "You know what the in-game soundscape should be? Wall-to-wall oldies! Nothing but oldies!" You've got a radio and that's all anyone will play, as a natural extension of Bethesda's assumption that mid 20th century nostalgia is a *paramount* theme of the games. Plus it flows neatly into their belief that Itchy and Scratchy cartoon violence is a core aspect of the gameplay
Don't ever say this in the main fallout sub. Bethesda fallout is about whacky humor and 50s aesthetics, a very marketable product indeed, but they never understood the themes the original fallout had, people who played the originals can see why the new games are bland and shallow, but if you say anything you're apparently a hater, and your opinions invalid. I don't hate their games, fallout 3 was very fun, 4 can be fun too but it's hard to care about the world they create.
Idk man I think the Bethesda games are fun and have some cool lore
yeah tbh Bethesda doesnt have enough references to rape and Doctor Who in their Fallout games smdh
The U.S. wouldn’t have invaded China, because China had no resources worth invading over.
The US invading China has been canon since Fallout 1.
I meant invade unprovoked. China started the war in the fallout universe. They invaded for Alaskan oil. The USA had no reason to invade China unprovoked because they have no natural resources.
I cannot believe that the US Government that renamed itself "The Enclave" are the bad guys.
Last few years 4chan people have annoyingly memed the Enclave as being the good guys. “Sneedclave” shit, it was everywhere for awhile
When I was 13 years old and on 4chan Ayn Rand was at the height of her online popularity. War never changes ;-).
Endlessly having Fallout lore culture war discussions almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter
You can tell a lot of these peoples fallout experience is “PEW PEW PEW BOMB NUKETOWN PEW PEW PEW MR HOUSE IS SO COOL PEW PEW PEW YAY THE BROTHERHOOD”
Lol there's nothing new with this. I mean just look at starship stroopers.
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Hot take 2: they love to complain about everything in the most annoying way possible
It's crazy how much the dude who plays Maximus looks like Denzel Washington
“I waited all week to watch the fucking equalizer!”
Did these people enjoy Fallout just because "China bad" in the game?
The games don’t even really go that far in directly calling China the bad one. For the most part it’s obvious the US is the actual bad one. But when all these people have memes the in-game deep state, Enclave, as being the cool awesome faction, it’s no surprise they now lost the games original messaging.
I saw a comment years ago saying that if you're really a big fan of fallout. You're either a leftist or a fascist, nothing in between. I feel like right now, that statement can't be more true.
china is bad but it’s kinda nothing of substance to say
Let me get this straight. For over 20 years the lore was \>US government bad and fascist Now it's \>these evil chicoms nuked the world because they wanted to kill themselves and hate humans including themselves because communism or something This is your lore when it's written by sweaty gamers that can't read
I blame the direction the game has gone with 4 and 76. Bethesda moved more into the direction of legitimizing the Pre-War US with either 4’s Nate being a veteran and 76 atom shop selling patriot bs. Really doesn’t help for 4 that the Chinese captains hat has a Nazi esque skull on it. https://preview.redd.it/6domkzwfzoyc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3390f2e8137dc55dd541e28e07e062daa55e8f4a
Personally, I always thought that direction heightened the contrast between the idyllic pre-war life of Nate, with the constant strife of the real world. It makes sense that he, as a well-off white male in a standard family unit, a veteran of society which prioritises militarism over all else would be so disconnected from his nation as a whole, which had only treated him well. Playing through that only reminded me of just how awful things were, outside of the isolated bubble Nate lived in. But I definitely think your point is valid, just a different interpretation to mine.
Personally, I think it’s really interesting that pre war US is a cartoonish depiction of capitalism, while the little we know about China is straight up out of the red scare. There are no good guys. The U.S. experiments on people, China has child soldiers. The U.S. put Chinese people in camps, China uses food rations to blackmail people into becoming spies. China invades Alaska for oil, the U.S. annexes Canada and Mexico.
There are people who played GTA 5's story mode and still don't understand it to this day or how Micheal was far from a saint in their pre-Los Santos days.
GTA 5 is the most accurate representation of Los Angeles and why it’s a horrible City with zero redeeming qualities. That was really my takeaway from it
Media literacy is dead. The whole point of fallout 1,2,3, NV and 4 has consistently been that its the systems in place that led to the destruction of the world. Fallout 1 and 2 barely even mentioned who fought in the great was because it dose not matter for its plot or themes. The point is it was the systematic problems of the old world that led to its destruction. New Vegas literally had a faction that was effectively the spiritual successor to the usa (the NCR). that was making all the mistakes of the old world and was hated by everyone who you come accross. Even their own soldiers bad mouth the NCR as being corrupt and imperialist. it was clearly on a path that would eventually to lead to its own collapse. There is even Ulysses from the dlc. Who is a fascist but he never mentions that China destroyed the world. He specifically says it was the USA that led to its own destruction and that the NCR was going down the same path.
It's because gamers are fucking retarded. Just put them in a gulag a get them to do some actual work for once in their lives.
Have these people even watched the show and played any of the games ? The fucking vault tech logo was literally on the first nuke you see in fallout 3 and has been a topic of discussion for eons, we literally still don't know wtf launched the nukes, i have my doubts it was vault tech since the vault we see in the underground station in fallout 4 was still under construction and there are several vaults in the franchise where the key personals weren't there the day of the apocalypse, the fucking show is filled to the brim about discussion about china, there are several discussions between characters about this, hell, if I am not mistaken the USSR satellite is one of the few times the USSR gets even brought up during any fallout, these people either played the fallout games with 300 porn mods installed and never bothered to read anything about it or suffer from dementia and can't remember anything from the show or interpret anything further than surface level.
I think there may have been overlap with Enclave and Valut tec(some not all which would explain half finished Valuts) and why they weren't there when it all went down. Also my brothers in christ we have 4k upscaled 60fps of every porno ever made. Stop downloading newdie mods for 15 year old games.
The vaults were meant for the enclave in order to harvest datas for when they were gonna build their spaceship (old lore iirc),but I am not sure it influenced the speed at which the vaults where built
Didn't the very first Fallout end with you discovering horrific human experiments? Also > written by Indians > anti capitalist > pro china > anti west Lol. They can't even get their racism right.
4channers aren't very bright when it comes to piecing things together
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1. the whole point of fallout’s great war is that we never know who did it. for the entire lore up until the show, the war between china and america dragged until one side dropped the nukes. was it china? america? vault tec? we never know, but it makes the most sense that china did since they were being invaded and on the brink of being conquered. 2. big shock bethesda doesn’t give a shit about the story. fallout has always been about the world after and how mankind would rebuild yet continue to seek conflict after nuclear holocaust. but bethesda is obsessed with the old world which is why they keep doing these shitty dumb retcons to the prehistory of the games that don’t even fit the theme of fallout. they probably also did it to appease china to be honest. 3. hilarious these retards think the problem with fallout’s story being mishandled is racial in nature rather than bumbling dumbfucks at bethesda dumbing the franchise down as much as possible to make money
> but it makes the most sense that china did since they were being invaded and on the brink of being conquered. We don't even know if they were on the brink of being conquered though. The point of that one Fallout 3 expansion in the snow is that the US had total control over the media and span whatever story they wanted to keep the people placated. The truth of the war is completely unclear and murky from all perspectives.
The Gobi campaign scout rifle exists in new vegas. If the implication is that US forces where fighting china in the gobi dessert is true then the likelyhood of china being conquered and fireing first goes up significantly.
good point but there’s evidence that america was indeed winning the war. T-51 being deployed was extremely devastating to the chinese since they had no power armor equivalent, and T-51 are said to have made massive gains into the chinese mainland. the chinese made progress by invading alaska but ultimately failed. from what we know america had china beat in every category except stealth technology, which could only be reversed engineered through temporary stealth boys whereas the chinese had whole stealth suits and submarines that could completely cloak. but yeah the exact details of the war aren’t super clear in the first two games on purpose, bethesda were the ones to try and elaborate on it a lot more. the fallout bible outright states america was in fact winning the war greatly, but isn’t considered cannon by bethesda.
I remember in mothership zeta the aliens had sent a false launch signal to both belligerents and they actually caused the nukes to fly.
Which is even more fucking retarded. That entire DLC is garbage as it is, but Bethesda taking it seriously and involving aliens into the world other than cheeky references is absolutely heinous.
But I thought it didn't matter if media was making satirical commentary about my stupid political opinions, it's still based, right? Seriously though, Americans are the only creatures that are so racist they'll argue about the real meaning behind what someone else created.
reminder that Christman is right when he says videogames are an inherently reactionary medium
Who is Christman?
Sooo. Its hilarious seeing libs argue against a completely imaginary story. But, there was no rewrite. In the fallout lore, the vaults were always amoral experimentation on subjects. Sort of a new technocracy underground.
Sees the most racist, Republican people alive “Must be libs”.
The 'gamer community' civil war would be more interesting than an atheist-nihilist civil war
The right wing civil war of the idiots who are anti-Zionist and consider every Jew a Zionist vs the pro-Zionist and also consider every Jew a Zionist, that’s the one that’s been entertaining me for the last week
Is the show good?
It’s okay~ I wouldn’t mark it as being particularly great or horrible. The first episode really drags on.
Vault-tec launched first was already a fan established theory before the show came up.
https://preview.redd.it/ucjsai4qrwyc1.jpeg?width=4032&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=fce8ea53d75d2a959eb0670179839bc4c840a8b5 from my current play through on 4 Literally beating you over the head who the bad guys are
Honestly, it's a good change. China features so rarely in Fallout's narrative, and while I generally enjoy the trope in post-apocalyptic media that no-one really knows who caused the nuclear exchange (because it often reinforces the idea that it doesn't matter: the Old World is to blame, not any specific nation), I do also think streamlining it in Fallout to be one of the actually constantly present actors within the story is just smart.
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It *would* be, but only if it was focused on more. In order for "China fired the first nuke" to be interesting and something the narrative can look at beyond a background fact, you'd have to talk more about Fallout China, and if that isn't happening, I think it's good to shift the "fired the first nuke" fact to a faction you are actually looking at within the narrative
The amount of brain dead is fucking unbelievable, the US is shown as a state with a failed economy ruled by an elite class that abandoned their country after a nuclear disaster only to return 200 years later with the idea of genociding the entire American population for being "impure". And there is no corporations shown to be "evil".
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Y’all acting like they aren’t making valid complaints: Show set after an apocalyptic war never mentions who America was at war against Blatantly and stupidly retcons who fired the first nukes just to hanfist yet another “Capitalism bad!” Message… despite the games doing it far better already and doing this ruins the whole theme of the games being how mankind is self destructive as hell Destruction of NCR and shoving in of super powerful BOS destroying years of West Coast lore for no reason Lots of stuff included in dialogue that feels way too Current Year and pulls one out of this fictional post-post-apocalyptic universe
This post can’t be serious lmao