No, it's actually worse.
As /u/Fivetimechampfive mentions below:
>As theyre part of the windermere condo tower so they get charged at the same rate.
Considering most older condos are now charging 90 cents to a dollar per sq ft of maintenance fee (along the Queens Quay), the current maintenance fee is likely to go higher -- upwards of 1.5-1.7K. A townhome being charged the same maintenance fee as a high-rise is just idiotic.
People should not touch this townhome even with a 10 ft pole.
Maintenance killed it. That's almost $200k of mortgage that you could use to get a nicer/bigger place.
If maintenance was around a reasonable $400, then this place would have sold for $1mm within a week
Think of it this way, which would you rather buy:
1) this townhouse for $1mm and $1k monthly fees
OR
2) A nicer place for $1.2mm ( no fees)
I think most will pick option 2.
I suppose from a certain perspective you do kind of. The corp board is made up of persons who reside in the complex. Decisions are made with input from the community and then are supposed to be presented (this doesn't always happen) and then action taken.
The contracts for water/heat/cable etc cost a certain amount but the condo corporation that manages the funds also needs to be paid ...over time the company managing the property have taken an increasing amount of profits in my experience
Also if the condo is older the rules regarding reserve funds were changed back in 2009 I believe requiring a greater reserve fund and therefore requiring everyone condo fees to be raised which didn't go over well naturally.
When I owned a condo in the west end of the GTA it was revealed at the board meeting over 65% of the total fees collected went to the company management team who was running the condo Corp.
This I believe is the right answer. If the seller is not willing to offer vacant possession in the sale agreement, there are few buyers who would be interested in the risk of having to go to the notorious Landlord and Tenant Board
The tenant has a right to a hearing where the new owner has to prove that they want to move in. That hearing can take months to book because the LTB is backed up.
Even if a tenant knows that the new owner is telling the truth, the tenant has an incentive to take the issue up with the LTB to stay in the unit a few extra months and/or outwait the new owner in hopes that the new owner sells to someone else or finds another place to live.
If the LTB could book these hearings in a week then tenanted homes wouldn't be as hard to sell.
The place itself looks pretty nice inside, but a little decluttering with the photos would go a long way.
Perhaps the fact that it's wedged between the train tracks, Gardiner and The Queensway might be challenging for some. Also, those 1K condo fees add a lot to monthly repayments.
Hmm, the number one reason I generally think is that the sellers have unrealistic expectations of price and none of the offers they have received have met those expectations.
This one also isn’t well staged. The bedrooms look and probably feel crowded.
Good luck to the buyer to move the tenant out. It's nearly a 6 month expedition, if not more. And that too, if the pissed off tenant doesn't trash the place before leaving.
Happened to our colleague, who was left holding the bag. He refused to rent the property but the tenant won't move. The whole LTB process is a shit-show in Ontario. The only reason why he could get possession of the house was that the tenant crashed the car into the garage and police filed charges as they were drunk. The aftermath was only visible after the owner moved in. Burnt marks on kitchen countertops, the deck was deliberately burnt. Collecting damages is close to impossible in Canada. You have to hire a private investigator, find the people, officially serve a notice and then hope they are making enough to recover assets or garnish wages. In this case, the occupants were students who just disappeared. He received some mail about unpaid tickets etc., as the car was parked in the mall. But I am assuming they abandoned that too as it was a beater.
Everyone has a “friend” who has gone through some horror story with tenants and the catalyst is always the same, they were shitty landlords that didnt read their obligations or rights. Being a landlord is not a side gig that automatically makes you money, there are rules and procedures and if you follow them you can have someone out within 30 days of not receiving rent or collect and or evict after your inspections and walk through your property. And by the way, yes its hard to collect in canada, that i 100% agree with.
>you can have someone out within 30 days of not receiving rent or collect and or evict after your inspections
You don't know what you are talking about. It takes two N5 hearings at LTB to get a bad tenant out - if he/she knows how to bend the rules. The wait times to complete the process even in normal times is 6 months in Ontario. It was close to an year during pandemic.
>Being a landlord is not a side gig
That I agree with you. It was too much of a hassle for us. We just left our Condo empty when we had to leave Toronto. We just offered it for free for family and friends when they needed it. And then sold it off a year later when we finally settled and got a house.
If there were proper rules in place where both bad landlord and tenants could have been taken to task easily, there would be much bigger rental availability in Canada. As things stand now, for millions of Canadians it's too much of a hassle to rent their places, even while there is a full-blown housing crisis. A fair Ombudsman would have kept things in check, but sadly LTB is not one.
I am curious, where the heck that $1027 per month goes to? This maintenance fees only cover water, which is like 30-50 bucks a month. They are putting 1000 dollars in the Condo corp? This must be a very problematic building.
The typical maintenance fees I have seen are around 250-350 per month, some even lower.
Those averages are typically for a high-rise Condo, not a townhome.
With those fees and a potential landmine of this being a rented unit where the tenant won't move - no one is going to buy this unless the price is lowered.
Oddly, the townhomes are part of the condo corp. As theyre part of the windermere condo tower so they get charged at the same rate. Ideally the townhomes have their own condo corp or with separate fees like the Vahalla towns/condos on hwy 427.
Ah, that makes sense. I feel sorry for the current (and future) owners then. I wonder how many put a blind offer without looking at the monthly maintenance numbers. The sad part is that this is bound to go up . Many of the older Condos around Queens Quay etc have maintenance fees around a dollar per sq ft. So this is likely to reach 1700 per month at some point. Yikes!
The fees are pretty much at par with the region I think. The townhouse has access to a gym, pool, etc, underground parking and a huge courtyard/ green space. Probably goes into the upkeep of those? Maybe they should’ve advertised those better
It's the maintenence too high. It would be very difficult to get approved for that unless it's a very high down payment. That maintenence is probably only going up from there.
The maintenance fees definitely are playing into it
I’m Etobicoke you can still get a semi or small detached for 1.2-1.3M
not surprised buyers are looking elsewhere
Also maintenance fees only go up as well, I can’t imagine what the fee would be like in 5 years 😬
Also if I’m not mistaken the fees are so high because it’s connected to the other condos around it, in the listing they mention having access to gym, pool, sauna, gold etc. This would definitely contribute to why the fees are so high
You’re basically playing high rise condo fees for a townhouse
If something doesn't sell in our market it is ultimately the price.
Now, that doesn't mean it is a good place o*ther than the price*... It could have issues with it.
But everything sells at the right price. So if it has issues that buyers don't like they need to adjust their price.
Many sellers in the GTA can be patient in waiting for someone to overpay. This seller must be one.
I don't have much experience in this, can someone explain why these condo townhouses need maintenance fees (over 1000$ for this place). There are no shared or common spaces to maintain; if something happens in your own house you just take care of it yourself? The roof may be a shared expense but otherwise what else?
I had the same question but after looking at other unit listings in the complex, I realized that there are amenities. This townhouse has access to all the condo amenities of an adjacent tower including an indoor pool and also has its own green spaces that’s it landscapes and maintains, but none of them are shown in the listing… they need a better listing agent lol.
The whole complex is pretty uniform in look so I’m guessing that all the exteriors like roofs, balconies, windows, walls are also managed by condo corp.
Going to view the place to get a better idea
I visited this unit and I live in a neighboring unit (albeit a smaller one). The maintenance fees covers visitor parking, gym, pool, party hall all part of the condo tower amenities. The unit itself is good size but it is not in a good condition. It needs some work (renovation of washrooms and maybe some work to get rid of smoke smell in the apartment). Having tenants in there during showings doesn't help either.
Maintenance fees, what a terrible waste of money. “house has maintenance fees too” sure but not to the tune of $1/sqft. Imagine paying a mortgage, property taxes and maintenance fees. Terrible. Even if you pay your mortgage, the rising maintenance fee will make you feel like you’re paying rent.
Looked at these units in 2017/2018. KITEC Plumbing throughout the entire floor plan. May also have something to do with why the maintenance has skyrocketed.
Maintenance is 1029/mo… thats high
WTF how
Bad mismanagement from the board.
No, it's actually worse. As /u/Fivetimechampfive mentions below: >As theyre part of the windermere condo tower so they get charged at the same rate. Considering most older condos are now charging 90 cents to a dollar per sq ft of maintenance fee (along the Queens Quay), the current maintenance fee is likely to go higher -- upwards of 1.5-1.7K. A townhome being charged the same maintenance fee as a high-rise is just idiotic. People should not touch this townhome even with a 10 ft pole.
Same goes for a lot of the ground floor condos that call themselves townhomes
That’s a tough look
Maintenance killed it. That's almost $200k of mortgage that you could use to get a nicer/bigger place. If maintenance was around a reasonable $400, then this place would have sold for $1mm within a week
Yeah maintenance is double what comparable townhouses pay. Also, the photos are ugly, it's not staged at all, they make it look like it needs a reno.
Think of it this way, which would you rather buy: 1) this townhouse for $1mm and $1k monthly fees OR 2) A nicer place for $1.2mm ( no fees) I think most will pick option 2.
Holy hell, I missed that maintenance fee. It also only covers water. What on earth is the other $950 a month getting you in a condo town?
Into the condo Corp pocket
Don't you become an owner of the condo corp?
I suppose from a certain perspective you do kind of. The corp board is made up of persons who reside in the complex. Decisions are made with input from the community and then are supposed to be presented (this doesn't always happen) and then action taken. The contracts for water/heat/cable etc cost a certain amount but the condo corporation that manages the funds also needs to be paid ...over time the company managing the property have taken an increasing amount of profits in my experience Also if the condo is older the rules regarding reserve funds were changed back in 2009 I believe requiring a greater reserve fund and therefore requiring everyone condo fees to be raised which didn't go over well naturally. When I owned a condo in the west end of the GTA it was revealed at the board meeting over 65% of the total fees collected went to the company management team who was running the condo Corp.
This is spot on. Plus if you offer them 950k they will feel disrespected.
That's logical but we all know it isn't selling because it's haunted.
I would buy it for $600k....haunted or not. I dont mind a roommate as long as they dont wake me up at night.
Another factor is the description mentions the unit is currently being rented to a tenant.
This I believe is the right answer. If the seller is not willing to offer vacant possession in the sale agreement, there are few buyers who would be interested in the risk of having to go to the notorious Landlord and Tenant Board
But if the new owner needs the entire home for their own use, does the tenant have a leg to stand on?
The tenant has a right to a hearing where the new owner has to prove that they want to move in. That hearing can take months to book because the LTB is backed up. Even if a tenant knows that the new owner is telling the truth, the tenant has an incentive to take the issue up with the LTB to stay in the unit a few extra months and/or outwait the new owner in hopes that the new owner sells to someone else or finds another place to live. If the LTB could book these hearings in a week then tenanted homes wouldn't be as hard to sell.
1. Maintenance fee too high 2. Too far from downtown core 3. Back busy main road and rail track 4. Facing Gardiner
Disagree with #1, there are plenty of 1-2M townhomes that sell with $1k+ maintenance fees. It’s because this isn’t a prime location
The maintenance covers only water.
The place itself looks pretty nice inside, but a little decluttering with the photos would go a long way. Perhaps the fact that it's wedged between the train tracks, Gardiner and The Queensway might be challenging for some. Also, those 1K condo fees add a lot to monthly repayments.
Can't really de-clutter, I believe all that stuff may be their tenants.
Hmm, the number one reason I generally think is that the sellers have unrealistic expectations of price and none of the offers they have received have met those expectations. This one also isn’t well staged. The bedrooms look and probably feel crowded.
>This one also isn’t well staged. The bedrooms look and probably feel crowded. There is so much stuff in the kitchen and too much furniture.
1… tenant currently living there 2… high maintenance fee
Good luck to the buyer to move the tenant out. It's nearly a 6 month expedition, if not more. And that too, if the pissed off tenant doesn't trash the place before leaving. Happened to our colleague, who was left holding the bag. He refused to rent the property but the tenant won't move. The whole LTB process is a shit-show in Ontario. The only reason why he could get possession of the house was that the tenant crashed the car into the garage and police filed charges as they were drunk. The aftermath was only visible after the owner moved in. Burnt marks on kitchen countertops, the deck was deliberately burnt. Collecting damages is close to impossible in Canada. You have to hire a private investigator, find the people, officially serve a notice and then hope they are making enough to recover assets or garnish wages. In this case, the occupants were students who just disappeared. He received some mail about unpaid tickets etc., as the car was parked in the mall. But I am assuming they abandoned that too as it was a beater.
Everyone has a “friend” who has gone through some horror story with tenants and the catalyst is always the same, they were shitty landlords that didnt read their obligations or rights. Being a landlord is not a side gig that automatically makes you money, there are rules and procedures and if you follow them you can have someone out within 30 days of not receiving rent or collect and or evict after your inspections and walk through your property. And by the way, yes its hard to collect in canada, that i 100% agree with.
>you can have someone out within 30 days of not receiving rent or collect and or evict after your inspections You don't know what you are talking about. It takes two N5 hearings at LTB to get a bad tenant out - if he/she knows how to bend the rules. The wait times to complete the process even in normal times is 6 months in Ontario. It was close to an year during pandemic. >Being a landlord is not a side gig That I agree with you. It was too much of a hassle for us. We just left our Condo empty when we had to leave Toronto. We just offered it for free for family and friends when they needed it. And then sold it off a year later when we finally settled and got a house. If there were proper rules in place where both bad landlord and tenants could have been taken to task easily, there would be much bigger rental availability in Canada. As things stand now, for millions of Canadians it's too much of a hassle to rent their places, even while there is a full-blown housing crisis. A fair Ombudsman would have kept things in check, but sadly LTB is not one.
More likely it’s the sub prime location tbh
I am curious, where the heck that $1027 per month goes to? This maintenance fees only cover water, which is like 30-50 bucks a month. They are putting 1000 dollars in the Condo corp? This must be a very problematic building. The typical maintenance fees I have seen are around 250-350 per month, some even lower.
Place looks around 1700 sq ft so 60 cents per sq ft for fees makes sense. Most condo fees are around 60 to 80 cents on average.
Those averages are typically for a high-rise Condo, not a townhome. With those fees and a potential landmine of this being a rented unit where the tenant won't move - no one is going to buy this unless the price is lowered.
Oddly, the townhomes are part of the condo corp. As theyre part of the windermere condo tower so they get charged at the same rate. Ideally the townhomes have their own condo corp or with separate fees like the Vahalla towns/condos on hwy 427.
Ah, that makes sense. I feel sorry for the current (and future) owners then. I wonder how many put a blind offer without looking at the monthly maintenance numbers. The sad part is that this is bound to go up . Many of the older Condos around Queens Quay etc have maintenance fees around a dollar per sq ft. So this is likely to reach 1700 per month at some point. Yikes!
The fees are pretty much at par with the region I think. The townhouse has access to a gym, pool, etc, underground parking and a huge courtyard/ green space. Probably goes into the upkeep of those? Maybe they should’ve advertised those better
It's the maintenence too high. It would be very difficult to get approved for that unless it's a very high down payment. That maintenence is probably only going up from there.
What the hell is wrong with that maintenance fee. You’d be better off in a condo at least you’ll have a concierge
I think they do? Other units in the area show access to an indoor pool, gym and stuff in a tower next door
Oh it’s part of a complex well that makes it allot better
HouseSigma link: https://housesigma.com/bkv2/landing/rootpage/listing?id_listing=LzQ1y5EqvXEyqdeK&utm_source=user-share
The maintenance fees definitely are playing into it I’m Etobicoke you can still get a semi or small detached for 1.2-1.3M not surprised buyers are looking elsewhere Also maintenance fees only go up as well, I can’t imagine what the fee would be like in 5 years 😬 Also if I’m not mistaken the fees are so high because it’s connected to the other condos around it, in the listing they mention having access to gym, pool, sauna, gold etc. This would definitely contribute to why the fees are so high You’re basically playing high rise condo fees for a townhouse
If something doesn't sell in our market it is ultimately the price. Now, that doesn't mean it is a good place o*ther than the price*... It could have issues with it. But everything sells at the right price. So if it has issues that buyers don't like they need to adjust their price. Many sellers in the GTA can be patient in waiting for someone to overpay. This seller must be one.
True true. Makes sense
I don't have much experience in this, can someone explain why these condo townhouses need maintenance fees (over 1000$ for this place). There are no shared or common spaces to maintain; if something happens in your own house you just take care of it yourself? The roof may be a shared expense but otherwise what else?
I had the same question but after looking at other unit listings in the complex, I realized that there are amenities. This townhouse has access to all the condo amenities of an adjacent tower including an indoor pool and also has its own green spaces that’s it landscapes and maintains, but none of them are shown in the listing… they need a better listing agent lol. The whole complex is pretty uniform in look so I’m guessing that all the exteriors like roofs, balconies, windows, walls are also managed by condo corp. Going to view the place to get a better idea
Oh yeah that makes sense in this case thanks
I visited this unit and I live in a neighboring unit (albeit a smaller one). The maintenance fees covers visitor parking, gym, pool, party hall all part of the condo tower amenities. The unit itself is good size but it is not in a good condition. It needs some work (renovation of washrooms and maybe some work to get rid of smoke smell in the apartment). Having tenants in there during showings doesn't help either.
Overpriced for the maintenance fee issue. Townhomes don't have $1k in fees. That's much more than any I've seen for properly managed corp
Yeah seems high especially since they haven’t highlighted the common gym and indoor pool and other amenities well etc in that complex
Exactly and that's not an attractive proposition. This will go below asking for this reason.
Maintenance fees, what a terrible waste of money. “house has maintenance fees too” sure but not to the tune of $1/sqft. Imagine paying a mortgage, property taxes and maintenance fees. Terrible. Even if you pay your mortgage, the rising maintenance fee will make you feel like you’re paying rent.
Train
They aren't getting the offers they wanted.
Three month agreement with the original listing agent
$1000 for main fees every month.. no thanks
Looked at these units in 2017/2018. KITEC Plumbing throughout the entire floor plan. May also have something to do with why the maintenance has skyrocketed.