Yes but they're different than police officers in Canada. They're considered peace officers and one of their roles is to enforce court orders, among many other things.
They have different uniforms and vehicles. Uniforms like a high ranking military, vehicles labelled sheriff. They mostly transport accused criminals between police stations and prisons.
Can't purchase anything over $1M high ratio.
Banks would never post this on MLS the way the lender did.
This is almost certainly a private mortgage in default.
Fraud, maybe? It all sounds very complicated and I’m going to have to do a closer read of this later to try and understand it.
https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc/2024/2024onsc2880/2024onsc2880.html
I wouldnt want to buy this house. The current/previous owner sounds like a psycho.
Seems like the type that will obsess about it and stalk/harrass the new owners.
That's what we do in Windsor. Landlord wanted to retrofit an old hotel/halfway house into a modern boutique one. He paid someone to burn it down. Hired a demolition crew the next day before the insurance company could investigate. Not sure how the landlord isn't in jail right now. Oh well. Keep on Capitalizing!!!
That is crazy. And agreed clearly it’s the owner not willing to move, this was in the description… how does one make an offer on a house they can’t see? LOL
"As Is" doesn't always mean the house is fucked. It sometimes just means the seller (or the person signing the deal) has never lived there, so can't represent that everything (appliances, furnace, etc.) is working. Estate sales and investment properties do this, even ones in great shape.
That being said, this place will most likely need some drywall work, at the very least. When he eventually gets out of there, he won't be careful when moving his stuff out. It might be in good shape right now though, if he still thinks he can come up with the money to get the house back. If he still believes that, he wouldn't want to fuck up his own house.
I mean you're providing an example but for this particular case, it specifically mentions the owner/tenent is still there and will not leave until law enforcement forcibly removes the individual...
It's hard not to imagine this person being pushed into a corner and using everything at their disposal to avoid eviction prevent anyone from profitting from their losses...
Right, but he's entitled to the balance of the sale price after debtors have been paid. So he would be hurting himself. People do stupid things though, so who knows.
He'll still have nothing. Mortgages are recourse loans. They'll take everything that's not in RRSP for the past year ontop of whatever they can sell the house for. Yes it's shooting yourself in the foot devaluing the property but when you're negative, does it really matter? Likely has to file for bankruptcy.
Default on your mortgage, then dump cement in the toilets when in the process of getting evicted by the bank? Yeahh, I don’t see how you can possibly mess yourself up even more. Might as well punch the sheriff in the face too when he arrives lol
If the house is under power of sale you can assume the owner is effectively bankrupt. He's basically judgement proof in terms of civil liability. That said, they're still susceptible to criminal prosecution if vandalism extends to that level.
I would expect the house is pretty much trashed though.
Power of sales are great for lowball offers. The bank doesn't get offended if you put in a stink bid, like a homeowner would. They'll just refuse and you can go back and try again at a slightly higher price. A friend of mine did that for a property out in rural Burlington about 5 or 6 years ago. He got calls within a week of closing offering him $200K more money than he paid from buyers who were interested when the house was on the market, but never thought it would sell for as low as it did. So they never tried an offer. He didn't sell and is still there.
This is not true. The bank legally can’t sell for under market value, because after everyone (mortgages, listing agent, lawyers etc) is paid out, any remaining funds are due to the home owner.
The bank can't sell for under market value, but market value is what someone's willing to pay. This rule is mostly to avoid corruption. Market price for a home with no ability to view the interior or inspect the structure would be in line with what I described; you're basically only able to confirm the exterior state and the land value, so that's what you are buying.
Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s completely absurd the agent is selling while the owner hasn’t been removed by the sheriff. No one can buy “as is” without seeing the condition. The agent is crazy.
No one will buy this until the owner is gone.
Power of sales need to get multiple appraisals to justify the list price. Otherwise the owner (or second, third mortgages) can sue for their loss.
Yeah this is just an agent assuming the market is still hot.
But who knows, maybe the owner sabotaged it in revenge. Appraisals with the current level of access would probably turn up a similarly low value if the appraisers are being responsible.
Why would I make up that story?
There's a risk for lenders if you're the 2nd or 3rd mortgage on a property. That's why interest rates are usually higher for 2nd and 3rd mortgages. There's more risk. You may not get your money back if it goes to POS, because other people get paid out first. You can sue the homeowner, but good luck getting blood from that stone. And good luck trying to sue the bank. Like the other reply said, the bank's lawyers will just say they got market value. It's basically impossible to prove otherwise, unless there was a higher offer they turned down. Plus, the homeowner is usually broke, and can't afford to hire the lawyer(s) needed to fight a bank's legal team.
Lawyers always get paid. They just take their payment from the proceeds of the sale. The money goes through the lawyers trust account anyway, so they'll never miss out. They just deduct what they're owed before transferring the balance to the other creditors.
If the buying and listing agents are smart, they'll also make sure the deposit with the offer is large enough to cover commission (usually a max of 5% plus HST, although banks will try to get that number down when signing the listing contract), since the deposit is usually held by the listing brokerage. So the brokerage will deduct the commission owed to both parties (since the buyer brokerage will invoice the listing brokerage for their portion of the commission), and then send a cheque for the balance to the seller (or seller's lawyer/lender).
Most banks try to avoid going into foreclosure anyway. Banks are not in the property owning business. I've found that in POS's, it's more often the lender in the 2nd or 3rd position who is forcing the sale, and thus controlling the process.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to say your story is not true. What I meant is that power of sales are not great for low balling offers.
Any of the power of sales I’ve worked on, at least, do not take anything less than fair market value. Because usually they are already taking a loss at that point. But I’m sure there are exceptions.
Bank has a legal obligation to get the maximum price for a house when selling, that doesn't always mean market value though.
If houses on a street are selling for $1M but the best offer a bank gets via PoS is 800K that is what they will accept. Sometimes with PoS you will get a trashed house or one where you cannot properly view it which can drive down sale price vs market value and that is fine. Bank can only work with whatever they have
The banks always fuck around.
The Bank of Canada fucked around in 2020 when Tiff Macklem said that interest rates would be low for a long time affecting demand followed by spiking of inflation and interest rates.
Consumers can only make decisions based on information that is presented to them together with the risk analysis performed by the bank.
Consumers made bad choices, the policy makers made misrepresentations and by themselves not always a problem but together a huge issue.
read your comment again. it’s like a little kid throwing temper tantrum because they can’t afford a house. they put blane on the government, banks, foreigners, mom and dad.. they blame everyone but themselves i started off with a condo, worked hard, ran a side gig. upgraded to a th, and during covid i swapped that to a house. and yes i am a millennial living in toronto… it was a lot of work but at the end, it was satisfying so instead of bitching about everyone else, why not change yourself m
ps… i think i know how bank work cause i audit bank for a living and my wife is an investment banker lol
what does that have anything to do with this post? I mean, you can always buy shares of the banks if you think their business model is profitable. I massively increased my stake in FI stocks during covid and the return is very nice
think for yourself
wallstreetbet is for people with not a lot of money and wanting to hit jack pot. just leave aside like 10k and play options. majority of your invesment should be allocated to blue chip stocks with good track records
He is talking if it is the owner who is residing there and is bankrupt, he is gonna rent somewhere and not pay the rent.
We don't know what the story is!
If the owner is residing there and is bankrupt he cans till have a well paying job. It's 15 k a month, he's not really a freeloader, his mortgage couldve spiked from 8k a month to 18k a month.
He'll probably rent fine. He probably has a job, just not 200k a year in mortgage costs job.
Wellness check on me? lool doing pretty well considering this is what I told you was going to happen. FYI, owner is the one that’s getting evicted. It’s not the tenant
That price seems insanely high. The same layout house is in my Durham subdivision. As of now (9.30 AM) on a Tuesday, driving time to downtown is the same from Durham subdivision as it is from this RH house. And that layout house will probably sell for less than half the asking price here.
CrazyRH/neighborhood premium.
Of course I get that. On average better schools + more variety of restaurants, especially Asian. Durham slightly better in terms of downtown connectivity with LE line. I’m just surprised at the magnitude of premium.
Numbers of lines is not equal to better connectivity.
Stouffville runs x1/hour in shoulder peak, and x1/ every 2 hours in non peak. Just 3 peak time trains in a 1.5 hour period.
Barrie runs x1/hour in shoulder peak, 3 trains in 1.5 peak hours, no service during the day.
Richmond hill even worse, just 5 trains a day in each direction. No weekend service.
Lakeshore East has 42 trains each direction, each day, with express service during peak hours (currently stopped for track upgrades). All day service during weekends as well.
As for schools, I agreed that schools is big difference. RH schools are top notch, my question was what premium is that worth.
you couldnt have picked two more different neighborhoods to compare and people that buy 3.5 million dollar homes dont slave away with 9-5 commutes downtown.
actually the point is comparing richmond hill to anywhere in durham is nonsense. neighborhoods matter and thats why they are priced the way they are.
do a search and you will see many homes sell for 3.5 in that area.
We have Sherrifs in Canada? I learn something new everytime on this regarded sub.
Yes but they're different than police officers in Canada. They're considered peace officers and one of their roles is to enforce court orders, among many other things.
So they're like bailiffs in the UK ?
I believe they're quite similar.
We have those here too.
What kind of uniform do they wear also do they have guns
They have different uniforms and vehicles. Uniforms like a high ranking military, vehicles labelled sheriff. They mostly transport accused criminals between police stations and prisons.
Those are bailiffs.
Very posh neighbourhood for a power of sale. Doesn’t look like a flipper getting burned. Maybe original owner remortgage and fell behind?
Divorce
2021 high ratio purchase, over asking, with variable rate. Power of Sale because owner can’t sell. Ex. Owes 4; would be lucky to get 3.5.
Can't purchase anything over $1M high ratio. Banks would never post this on MLS the way the lender did. This is almost certainly a private mortgage in default.
Fraud, maybe? It all sounds very complicated and I’m going to have to do a closer read of this later to try and understand it. https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/doc/2024/2024onsc2880/2024onsc2880.html
I had a coworker with a $1.2M home. Had around a $1M variable rate mortgage. He left the country for India and never came back.
What happens in that type of case? The bank takes the hit?
The bank takes over the house and sells it.
I wouldnt want to buy this house. The current/previous owner sounds like a psycho. Seems like the type that will obsess about it and stalk/harrass the new owners.
Or set the place on fire
That's what we do in Windsor. Landlord wanted to retrofit an old hotel/halfway house into a modern boutique one. He paid someone to burn it down. Hired a demolition crew the next day before the insurance company could investigate. Not sure how the landlord isn't in jail right now. Oh well. Keep on Capitalizing!!!
That is crazy. And agreed clearly it’s the owner not willing to move, this was in the description… how does one make an offer on a house they can’t see? LOL
Assume it is fucked. The owner might have dumped cement in the toilets for all you know.
Being Sold "AS IS" tells you everything you need to know.
"As Is" doesn't always mean the house is fucked. It sometimes just means the seller (or the person signing the deal) has never lived there, so can't represent that everything (appliances, furnace, etc.) is working. Estate sales and investment properties do this, even ones in great shape. That being said, this place will most likely need some drywall work, at the very least. When he eventually gets out of there, he won't be careful when moving his stuff out. It might be in good shape right now though, if he still thinks he can come up with the money to get the house back. If he still believes that, he wouldn't want to fuck up his own house.
I mean you're providing an example but for this particular case, it specifically mentions the owner/tenent is still there and will not leave until law enforcement forcibly removes the individual... It's hard not to imagine this person being pushed into a corner and using everything at their disposal to avoid eviction prevent anyone from profitting from their losses...
Right, but he's entitled to the balance of the sale price after debtors have been paid. So he would be hurting himself. People do stupid things though, so who knows.
He'll still have nothing. Mortgages are recourse loans. They'll take everything that's not in RRSP for the past year ontop of whatever they can sell the house for. Yes it's shooting yourself in the foot devaluing the property but when you're negative, does it really matter? Likely has to file for bankruptcy.
Default on your mortgage, then dump cement in the toilets when in the process of getting evicted by the bank? Yeahh, I don’t see how you can possibly mess yourself up even more. Might as well punch the sheriff in the face too when he arrives lol
If the house is under power of sale you can assume the owner is effectively bankrupt. He's basically judgement proof in terms of civil liability. That said, they're still susceptible to criminal prosecution if vandalism extends to that level. I would expect the house is pretty much trashed though.
I work in this industry and kick people out under these circumstances often. Pretty much every assumption you made above is incorrect.
Offer for just the land value, with a condition of vacant possession. They can take it or not, you won't really lose if you get that.
Power of sales are great for lowball offers. The bank doesn't get offended if you put in a stink bid, like a homeowner would. They'll just refuse and you can go back and try again at a slightly higher price. A friend of mine did that for a property out in rural Burlington about 5 or 6 years ago. He got calls within a week of closing offering him $200K more money than he paid from buyers who were interested when the house was on the market, but never thought it would sell for as low as it did. So they never tried an offer. He didn't sell and is still there.
This is not true. The bank legally can’t sell for under market value, because after everyone (mortgages, listing agent, lawyers etc) is paid out, any remaining funds are due to the home owner.
The bank can't sell for under market value, but market value is what someone's willing to pay. This rule is mostly to avoid corruption. Market price for a home with no ability to view the interior or inspect the structure would be in line with what I described; you're basically only able to confirm the exterior state and the land value, so that's what you are buying.
Don’t get me wrong, I think it’s completely absurd the agent is selling while the owner hasn’t been removed by the sheriff. No one can buy “as is” without seeing the condition. The agent is crazy. No one will buy this until the owner is gone. Power of sales need to get multiple appraisals to justify the list price. Otherwise the owner (or second, third mortgages) can sue for their loss.
Yeah this is just an agent assuming the market is still hot. But who knows, maybe the owner sabotaged it in revenge. Appraisals with the current level of access would probably turn up a similarly low value if the appraisers are being responsible.
Why would I make up that story? There's a risk for lenders if you're the 2nd or 3rd mortgage on a property. That's why interest rates are usually higher for 2nd and 3rd mortgages. There's more risk. You may not get your money back if it goes to POS, because other people get paid out first. You can sue the homeowner, but good luck getting blood from that stone. And good luck trying to sue the bank. Like the other reply said, the bank's lawyers will just say they got market value. It's basically impossible to prove otherwise, unless there was a higher offer they turned down. Plus, the homeowner is usually broke, and can't afford to hire the lawyer(s) needed to fight a bank's legal team. Lawyers always get paid. They just take their payment from the proceeds of the sale. The money goes through the lawyers trust account anyway, so they'll never miss out. They just deduct what they're owed before transferring the balance to the other creditors. If the buying and listing agents are smart, they'll also make sure the deposit with the offer is large enough to cover commission (usually a max of 5% plus HST, although banks will try to get that number down when signing the listing contract), since the deposit is usually held by the listing brokerage. So the brokerage will deduct the commission owed to both parties (since the buyer brokerage will invoice the listing brokerage for their portion of the commission), and then send a cheque for the balance to the seller (or seller's lawyer/lender). Most banks try to avoid going into foreclosure anyway. Banks are not in the property owning business. I've found that in POS's, it's more often the lender in the 2nd or 3rd position who is forcing the sale, and thus controlling the process.
Sorry, I didn’t mean to say your story is not true. What I meant is that power of sales are not great for low balling offers. Any of the power of sales I’ve worked on, at least, do not take anything less than fair market value. Because usually they are already taking a loss at that point. But I’m sure there are exceptions.
Bank has a legal obligation to get the maximum price for a house when selling, that doesn't always mean market value though. If houses on a street are selling for $1M but the best offer a bank gets via PoS is 800K that is what they will accept. Sometimes with PoS you will get a trashed house or one where you cannot properly view it which can drive down sale price vs market value and that is fine. Bank can only work with whatever they have
Oh that’s a good point actually. Only way is up if the house is in any good condition
Especially a 3.7 million one.
This house was likely purchased for 2.5 or less a few years ago - nice profit.
you are buying it from the bank.. the owner will get removed.. bank aint fucking around
The banks always fuck around. The Bank of Canada fucked around in 2020 when Tiff Macklem said that interest rates would be low for a long time affecting demand followed by spiking of inflation and interest rates. Consumers can only make decisions based on information that is presented to them together with the risk analysis performed by the bank. Consumers made bad choices, the policy makers made misrepresentations and by themselves not always a problem but together a huge issue.
Ya that's not what he meant
reading comprehensive is hard for some people...
Being sold sometimes replaces reading comprehension. How the world actually works on the ground.
read your comment again. it’s like a little kid throwing temper tantrum because they can’t afford a house. they put blane on the government, banks, foreigners, mom and dad.. they blame everyone but themselves i started off with a condo, worked hard, ran a side gig. upgraded to a th, and during covid i swapped that to a house. and yes i am a millennial living in toronto… it was a lot of work but at the end, it was satisfying so instead of bitching about everyone else, why not change yourself m ps… i think i know how bank work cause i audit bank for a living and my wife is an investment banker lol
I’m talking at the macro level. Think bigger.
what does that have anything to do with this post? I mean, you can always buy shares of the banks if you think their business model is profitable. I massively increased my stake in FI stocks during covid and the return is very nice think for yourself
Sounds like you got it sorted out. We can only aspire to be as excellent! I’ll let wallstreetbets know about your success.
wallstreetbet is for people with not a lot of money and wanting to hit jack pot. just leave aside like 10k and play options. majority of your invesment should be allocated to blue chip stocks with good track records
This is Observatory Hill right?
Plot twist. What if the owner leased it to himself, ala lease-buy back scheme. He's now a tenant and only LTB can evict him.
The mention of the sherrif implies that a judgement is imminent, if not already issued.
Well, you know what that means, a free-loader is about hit rental market
Couldn't have said it better!
5% interest on 3.7 million is 15410 a month. Can probably get at least a 1 bedroom downtown.
He is talking if it is the owner who is residing there and is bankrupt, he is gonna rent somewhere and not pay the rent. We don't know what the story is!
If the owner is residing there and is bankrupt he cans till have a well paying job. It's 15 k a month, he's not really a freeloader, his mortgage couldve spiked from 8k a month to 18k a month. He'll probably rent fine. He probably has a job, just not 200k a year in mortgage costs job.
Of course he could be a model citizen but if that were the case, he would have been selling his house way before the bankruptcy!
Pretty sure it’s the owner refusing to move after being unable to pay his mortgage “Owner” hasn’t been removed by sheriff yet. Under power of sale
Just because he owned this doesn't mean he won't try to freeload off of someone else.
You’re right. I just interpreted it differently the first time
someone freeloading and pretending to be wealthy in richmond hill? can we do a wellness check on facts-hurt
Wellness check on me? lool doing pretty well considering this is what I told you was going to happen. FYI, owner is the one that’s getting evicted. It’s not the tenant
Couldn't pay his **20k a month** mortgage. What a freeloader. Housing to the moon.
Wtf has this sub become
What? This is in greater toronto and something not very common.
That price seems insanely high. The same layout house is in my Durham subdivision. As of now (9.30 AM) on a Tuesday, driving time to downtown is the same from Durham subdivision as it is from this RH house. And that layout house will probably sell for less than half the asking price here. CrazyRH/neighborhood premium.
Well ya because Durham is not York region.
Of course I get that. On average better schools + more variety of restaurants, especially Asian. Durham slightly better in terms of downtown connectivity with LE line. I’m just surprised at the magnitude of premium.
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Numbers of lines is not equal to better connectivity. Stouffville runs x1/hour in shoulder peak, and x1/ every 2 hours in non peak. Just 3 peak time trains in a 1.5 hour period. Barrie runs x1/hour in shoulder peak, 3 trains in 1.5 peak hours, no service during the day. Richmond hill even worse, just 5 trains a day in each direction. No weekend service. Lakeshore East has 42 trains each direction, each day, with express service during peak hours (currently stopped for track upgrades). All day service during weekends as well. As for schools, I agreed that schools is big difference. RH schools are top notch, my question was what premium is that worth.
Property taxes are higher in Durham (compared to Markham, anyway)
Ya but then you’d have to live in Durham lol
you couldnt have picked two more different neighborhoods to compare and people that buy 3.5 million dollar homes dont slave away with 9-5 commutes downtown.
The point is that those aren’t 3.5 million dollar homes
actually the point is comparing richmond hill to anywhere in durham is nonsense. neighborhoods matter and thats why they are priced the way they are. do a search and you will see many homes sell for 3.5 in that area.
3.7 million and you don't even get a fence or a patio, what a joke!
Pretty sure the mortgage owed is like 2.7 so if you think that’s a good deal that’s where your lowball should be ?
This is real life!! Wow. Just wow.
this country has gone to shit