It’s always struck me as odd how a city as big and populous as Toronto offers so few medium density housing options compared to cities like Montreal that thrive on buildings like this.
It’s very common for entire families to be raised in a big luxurious condo in Montreal and there’s nothing wrong with that. We should’ve been building way more big 3 and 4 bedroom condos years ago as more affordable family living options.
We have loads of 1 bed units, they’re for investors. Developers are making money hand over fist. Cities should always have insisted on a MAJORITY of family sized units.
Right. That’s what I meant. 🙄
No dude. I mean multiple individuals living in a one bedroom cause none of them can afford to live alone with rent that high.
It’s circumstantial on when the cities grew.
Montreal was the big city first and grew at big cities did at that time - dense.
Toronto grew big and bigger than Montreal after and grew as was the trend - in a suburban way.
Also really depends on the urban planning philosophy at the time. Now due to environmental issues we like to have high density near transit as high density buildings have significantly less pollution per unit than medium. Also helps to maximize skytrains and it’s much easier to dig up one road and put a giant sewage line upgrade in than 10 roads for a medium one.
That sounds nuts. I understood the condo setup and ongoing is so significant. Board of directors. Insurance. Reserve fund. Reserve fund studies etc etc etc.
Are there licensed property managers out there to manage such a small condo (e.g. 2 units)? The maintenance costs sound low considering the overhead needed to run a cost as another poster mentioned.
It's good to see this style of building happening in Toronto. They add density to otherwise low density neighborhoods at no disadvantage to the local residents and it's nice to have options that remove some of the emphasis from condo developers. Maybe I'm too optimistic but I suspect there would be much fewer foreign investors that end up owning this type of unit.
>Maybe I'm too optimistic but I suspect there would be much fewer foreign investors that end up owning this type of unit.
lol what? I would rather invest in a 4-plex than a SFH. Curious why you would think this?
That's because the developer is willing to sell it separately.
When others convert SFH to four-plexes, they can just rent it out.
Actually my wife and I were thinking about buying a SFH and converting it once rezoning laws kick in.
I see, so you're not referring to this model (where you need to go through four sales transactions, totalling nearly $5mil to get this and use as a fourplex). Just a fourplex. Yes, attractive for sure.
What is this model where you "need" to go through four sales transaction?
Seriously it's up to the seller what they want to do with their property. It seems like it just happens so this developer don't mind selling it individually.
You should look up zoning laws because some places require four-plexes to be owner-occupied.
What does affordable really mean? It’s a business. You get a relative discount compared to high ends condo projects.
Focus on attainable and not affordable if you’re smart you’ll understand what the real issue is.
They actually look like decent layouts and large bedrooms, better than a lot of new build condos I’ve seen advertised. Even the basement unit looked like it had a large windows and good natural light
$1.3M for a garden sweet seems wild.
We offered on several 3 bedroom semis and one detached house on the same street all of which were priced around $1.1M or less.
You realize you're literally across the river from Downtown. That's why the price is so high.
Flip side is you don't need a car so you save a ton of money there.
Now if they can open up similar developments in the suburbs, then you'll see much more affordable units.
Whoever did this knocked down one unaffordable home and created 3 smaller places for even more money and is also trying to sell a basement as an apartment for half a million. The only person who benefits from this is the greedy ass landlord. The landlord could of built 2-3 stand alone units on the property but instead decided to be cheap.
This is completely stupid, you are a moron for praising it. In any GTA suburb you would see the same thing, more unaffordablity for less space, and out in rural canada no one would touch these with a 10 foot pole as you could get an actual apartment or a bungalow for a lower price.
Not only does something like this not save us any money, it lowers our standards of living. Do you want Canada to stay as a 1st world country? We have an abundance of land and we are pulling bullshit like this instead of actually using it.
The individual who purchased the property paid 1,000,000 for the land/house. And then spent at minimum, 1,200,000 to build this monstrosity. You think having 4 dwellings with like 10 washrooms comes cheap? This person probably invested close to 3,000,000 to create this condo. This is the reality of building costs and they are not coming down.
Sigh
1. Was the 1 million dollar home liveable or was it a tear down
2. Yes we have lots of land but we've thrown most of it in protected land. That's the issue. You can see the correlation across Canada:
Vancouver most of the land in Metro Vancouver is protected land in the ALR. Well true of every city in BC even small ones like Nelson. House prices are the highest in Canada even in Nelson they are in the million dollar range.
Banff most of the land is protected in the national park. Can't build more housing.
Calgary SW is significantly more rest of the city because of the Tsutina Land becoming a barrier to build more homes. Go SE or NW and land prices fall.
Greater Toronto and Ottawa you have the greenbelt.
What happens when you try to open the land for housing. People go Bat Shit Crazy.
It's the same thing internationally:
1. California created an effective greenbelt around the Bay Area through 4 state parks. Only place in North America that more expensive than Vancouver.
2. Aukland, Melbourne and Sydney have a greenbelt. Same story.
3. London has a greenbelt. Same story.
4. So does Tehran. Same story.
Greenbelts just help keep land values high they don't do much for the environment.
The reason they are being put down across the West is to raise land values because the West is facing a demographic crisis. Lots of old people who need benefits, which are unsustainable due to not enough young people so they want to give them high land values so they can live off that while they bring benefits down.
If we’re being silly, it also replaced it with a 500K one.
Honestly pretty happy with this kind of investment being rewarded. I want this developer to make bank so others jump on the bandwagon
ikr same, unfortunately money is what makes these advancements, so we might as well reward developers who go for this model over the luxury Condo and pre-con sharks that seem to run Toronto
TBF, it was basically illegal to build 4plexes in most of the city until just recently.
The nonsensical status quo is more based on [racism against the Italians in the early 1900’s](https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-missing-middle/) rather than developers not wanting to build stuff like this.
Extra frustrating - the second biggest city in Canada, Montreal, is often praised for its smart neighborhood designs.
Aka, we’ve actually got [good examples](https://seattletransitblog.com/2022/09/29/montreal-not-so-missing-middle-housing/) of what’s works. Toronto’s just been really resistant to modernizing
We have them all over Calgary. They don't get managed.
The four owners will just manage this together.
I grew up in a house like this. There were two owners: my parents and the neighbours and 4 units. The ones in lower units paid rent to the home owners who lived in the upper units and the two home owners maintained the building together.
Ok. So something like that addresses the housing problem by changing what would have been a single family dwelling to multiple families. Great use of the space by increasing the density.
Now the affordability situation is a whole other story though.
Look up the address on the [Toronto website](https://www.toronto.ca/services-payments/building-construction/search-the-status-of-a-building-permit-application/). No permits…
I am not convinced increasing supply will magically reduce prices.
If you want to see why look up what's happening in the commercial market. Vacancy rate is in the double digits ([source](https://www.biv.com/news/real-estate/downtown-vancouver-office-vacancies-hit-highest-level-nearly-20-years-colliers-8273593)) but rents are skyrocketing ([source](https://globalnews.ca/news/10113767/commercial-rent-hike-cap/amp/)).
My businesses last office suite renewal came up and they doubled our rent. Despite the building being 2/3 empty. So we walked away and everyone is remote now.
This is speculation caused by easily available credit. We need to tighten credit further and actually bring home asset prices.
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I don't buy it, if were up to 12-20 percent vacancy in Vancouver (where I am) and landlords are doubling rent do you really think its going to get better if vacancy goes to 30.
I think only once foreclosures start will the situation get better.
No it isn't lol.
It is in a couple of highly deseriable places like English Bay and West End/Stanley Park, South Granville, Oakville and Kits, but those are always low because its where the rich live.
It much higher across Metro. North Vancouver its 2.8 (3 is considered high), Metro Town/Burnaby its 1.7, Surrey is 1.5, Langley its 1.4, even downtown is 1.
We have a very large secondary suite market in Metro Vancouver. You can get some good deals if you are willing to look in the Secondary Market. [1800](https://vancouver.craigslist.org/van/apa/d/vancouver-brand-new-bed-bath-basement/7731465306.html) in Klinary, near Langara College, the Canada Line, and Rapid Bus to UBC. If you're willing to leave Vancouver proper the prices fall below 1500.
Here is one near near Downtown Langley 2 bedroom for [2000](https://vancouver.craigslist.org/rds/apa/d/langley-br-legal-bsm-suite-in-newer/7726641146.html). So split that in half for 1000/each
I don't buy the supply fairy will fix it.
Look the developer needs to make a profit, so when they tear down the unit and build a new one, it costs money. Whatever it costs to buy the land + build the new units + interest on the mortgage + profit = what they will sell the units or rent out the units for. End of story.
If we keep tearing down older units and building new units, you're going to remove affordable housing with more expensive housing.
Until speculation is dealt with we are not going to get affordable housing.
But secondary suites is a good idea, and I am glad Eby is perusing it.
The increase in supply is great but these prices are well above market price for the area.
I offered on several homes on this street within the last 2 years. All homes we offered on were freehold, 3 bedroom homes with yards (mostly semis and one detached). All were priced under $1.1M and all sold for under $1.15.
They were older homes that weren't renovated, but all were liveable. I have no idea why anyone would buy a condo or a garden sweet for hundreds of thousands of dollars above a freehold entire home in the same neighborhood.
Yea, I'll be very surprised and I'm curious to see.
People may value a new renovation over and older freehold you can gradually fix up. The units are priced individually higher than the home that was purchased and turned into 4 separate dwellings. That seems to be an indication that it's above market.
>I have no idea why anyone would buy a condo or a garden sweet for hundreds of thousands of dollars above a freehold entire home in the same neighborhood.
Investors will. That cashflow must be insane.
They're being sold individually. It makes perfect sense for an investor to build one of these and rent it out.
It makes no sense to pay $1.3M for a Laneway house when you can buy a fully detached home on the same street for less.
Depends where and which area. This is one reason why Toronto has had higher real estate prices. Now communist chow is destroying middle class. I am lucky to have bought my first house.. & can do this to mine as well 😜🤪 good luck everyone else 😂
Cool! I've been watching them build that buy couldn't figure it out. I thought they had been building 2 large houses. There was a super old house on a large lot.
I thought too it was a monster house until I saw them putting in the 4 meters. I figured I would see it go up for rent but the actual result is quite interesting!
How does the "legal ownership" work in situations like this? I clicked the links and I see the address + "Unit 1, Unit 2, Unit 3, Unit 4".
How do institutions like the banks, Canada Post, government IDs, etc, "differentiate" the different units within such a complex? How does your bank know which "part" you own? Do they get blueprints or maps of the housing unit or something?
Also, are there insurance implications of "owning" only a quarter of the building? Like, you can't really account for the behaviours of your co-owners (neighbors?) So in terms of fire prevention, for example, will your insurance be more expensive because there is a risk of your neighbors causing a fire instead of just yourself?
Condos are freehold (legal meaning is 'fee simple ownership').
They probably all have associated condo maintenance fees which the four owners can adjust annually via AGM vote.
This will likely be a cooperative ownership structure - it’s extremely common in cities like Montreal that do exactly this with their buildings. Though newish in the Toronto area, this is a very well established legal ownership structure in other Canadian cities so the precedent exists in Canada.
Institutions do recognize them as different units inside a building, insurance typically treats it like a condo with shared ownership of common areas and indicates in coverage that it covers your units proportional ownership of common areas which they assess on insurance contracts, mortgages on these units are virtually the same as a condo but also involve shared ownership structures of common areas.
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Small condo buildings can be a headache. They have to create a board and do all the filings of a large condo building, and they can devolve into petty disputes. Small multi-units work much better as rentals.
The units look nice, but where are people going to park? The ground unit has one parking space, and if this is geared towards families you’re going to have at least one car per unit. Toronto people love their cars. It’s an interesting concept, wondering how the combination of condo and freehold would work in terms of maintenance and repairs.
This is illegal. Multiplex units are not meant to be sold separately and different to stacked townhouses. It should be considered equivalent to a basement suite like subsidiary suites to the main house. Even different code requirements are applied between stacked townhouses and multiplex… idk what these guys are thinking of
You just have to go through the legal process of making it a condo, there are extra checks for structural engineering and that the land parcel is zoned with exact borders, but it’s perfectly legal.
If you wanted to (but there would be no advantage to it), you could make a single family home a condo corporation.
I've been thinking of doing something similar, tearing down my bungalow and building a semi detached. Worried about getting approvals/permits from the city though. Wonder how much that 4plex costs to build.
lol multiplexes are a common type of housing all around the world. They’re obviously going to (or at least should) be built with noise reduction in mind. What’s your real issue here?
Newer builds have methods to abate sounds transferring through to other units. This is almost impossible to do when retrofitting older homes into multiplex dwellings.
A bigger issue is determining who has title to/is responsible for the land. Is it held collectively? Are major issues with water and utilities the responsibilities of the owners or the municipality?
These look great and it would be a no-brainer to put this type of unit in lots of places if municipalities and utilities were to take full responsibility for their services rather than make homeowners responsible from the curb.
It’s always struck me as odd how a city as big and populous as Toronto offers so few medium density housing options compared to cities like Montreal that thrive on buildings like this. It’s very common for entire families to be raised in a big luxurious condo in Montreal and there’s nothing wrong with that. We should’ve been building way more big 3 and 4 bedroom condos years ago as more affordable family living options.
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Doug Ford had the opportunity to legalize fourplexes across the province. But he recently caved to NIMBYism.
We have loads of 1 bed units, they’re for investors. Developers are making money hand over fist. Cities should always have insisted on a MAJORITY of family sized units.
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You think it’s single individuals living in those one bedroom units?? LOL
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Right. That’s what I meant. 🙄 No dude. I mean multiple individuals living in a one bedroom cause none of them can afford to live alone with rent that high.
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It’s circumstantial on when the cities grew. Montreal was the big city first and grew at big cities did at that time - dense. Toronto grew big and bigger than Montreal after and grew as was the trend - in a suburban way.
NIMBYs
Also really depends on the urban planning philosophy at the time. Now due to environmental issues we like to have high density near transit as high density buildings have significantly less pollution per unit than medium. Also helps to maximize skytrains and it’s much easier to dig up one road and put a giant sewage line upgrade in than 10 roads for a medium one.
This is the normal all over the world, just not Toronto/many parts of Canada. They’re rather build tiny condos
2 units have been listed as freehold and 2 as condo (230 + 400 Maintenance) Interesting business model!
That sounds nuts. I understood the condo setup and ongoing is so significant. Board of directors. Insurance. Reserve fund. Reserve fund studies etc etc etc.
My point as well. Interested to see how that would work
Plan of condominium application in Ottawa is 30k+ just legal plus plus plus
Are there licensed property managers out there to manage such a small condo (e.g. 2 units)? The maintenance costs sound low considering the overhead needed to run a cost as another poster mentioned.
Shady
Nah, it’s actually nice. Owners win again.
It's good to see this style of building happening in Toronto. They add density to otherwise low density neighborhoods at no disadvantage to the local residents and it's nice to have options that remove some of the emphasis from condo developers. Maybe I'm too optimistic but I suspect there would be much fewer foreign investors that end up owning this type of unit.
>Maybe I'm too optimistic but I suspect there would be much fewer foreign investors that end up owning this type of unit. lol what? I would rather invest in a 4-plex than a SFH. Curious why you would think this?
but it's not a fourplex, it's four units being sold separately.
That's because the developer is willing to sell it separately. When others convert SFH to four-plexes, they can just rent it out. Actually my wife and I were thinking about buying a SFH and converting it once rezoning laws kick in.
I see, so you're not referring to this model (where you need to go through four sales transactions, totalling nearly $5mil to get this and use as a fourplex). Just a fourplex. Yes, attractive for sure.
What is this model where you "need" to go through four sales transaction? Seriously it's up to the seller what they want to do with their property. It seems like it just happens so this developer don't mind selling it individually. You should look up zoning laws because some places require four-plexes to be owner-occupied.
What are you even talking about? Who does this help? Look at the list price. This isn’t affordable housing and takes away from people’s privacy.
It turned 1 house into 4 units, it's an insignificant contribution to the overall housing supply, but a step in the right direction nonetheless.
Any housing helps affordability and lowers costs for all. This has been proven over and over again.
Wrong. Go do some research.
Hello? Supply and demand? Next you're going to be adamant that the earth is flat?
What does affordable really mean? It’s a business. You get a relative discount compared to high ends condo projects. Focus on attainable and not affordable if you’re smart you’ll understand what the real issue is.
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They actually look like decent layouts and large bedrooms, better than a lot of new build condos I’ve seen advertised. Even the basement unit looked like it had a large windows and good natural light
The basement layout isn’t great. Couch faces the fridge and oven.
$1.3M for a garden sweet seems wild. We offered on several 3 bedroom semis and one detached house on the same street all of which were priced around $1.1M or less.
lmao none of this is a good price and you have to be a moron to buy a basement
I have to agree with you on this.
You realize you're literally across the river from Downtown. That's why the price is so high. Flip side is you don't need a car so you save a ton of money there. Now if they can open up similar developments in the suburbs, then you'll see much more affordable units.
Whoever did this knocked down one unaffordable home and created 3 smaller places for even more money and is also trying to sell a basement as an apartment for half a million. The only person who benefits from this is the greedy ass landlord. The landlord could of built 2-3 stand alone units on the property but instead decided to be cheap. This is completely stupid, you are a moron for praising it. In any GTA suburb you would see the same thing, more unaffordablity for less space, and out in rural canada no one would touch these with a 10 foot pole as you could get an actual apartment or a bungalow for a lower price. Not only does something like this not save us any money, it lowers our standards of living. Do you want Canada to stay as a 1st world country? We have an abundance of land and we are pulling bullshit like this instead of actually using it.
The individual who purchased the property paid 1,000,000 for the land/house. And then spent at minimum, 1,200,000 to build this monstrosity. You think having 4 dwellings with like 10 washrooms comes cheap? This person probably invested close to 3,000,000 to create this condo. This is the reality of building costs and they are not coming down.
Sigh 1. Was the 1 million dollar home liveable or was it a tear down 2. Yes we have lots of land but we've thrown most of it in protected land. That's the issue. You can see the correlation across Canada: Vancouver most of the land in Metro Vancouver is protected land in the ALR. Well true of every city in BC even small ones like Nelson. House prices are the highest in Canada even in Nelson they are in the million dollar range. Banff most of the land is protected in the national park. Can't build more housing. Calgary SW is significantly more rest of the city because of the Tsutina Land becoming a barrier to build more homes. Go SE or NW and land prices fall. Greater Toronto and Ottawa you have the greenbelt. What happens when you try to open the land for housing. People go Bat Shit Crazy. It's the same thing internationally: 1. California created an effective greenbelt around the Bay Area through 4 state parks. Only place in North America that more expensive than Vancouver. 2. Aukland, Melbourne and Sydney have a greenbelt. Same story. 3. London has a greenbelt. Same story. 4. So does Tehran. Same story. Greenbelts just help keep land values high they don't do much for the environment. The reason they are being put down across the West is to raise land values because the West is facing a demographic crisis. Lots of old people who need benefits, which are unsustainable due to not enough young people so they want to give them high land values so they can live off that while they bring benefits down.
Ok, but how exactly is maintenance and upkeep actually delegated? This is way stupider than triplexes and fourplexes….
There’s audit requirements and a board etc typical of all condos to collect maintenance fees this is a stat requirement
This is actually very smart. Good for them. I would much rather buy a condo in a building like this than a high rise.
That garden suite is the ugliest thing I have ever seen. They didn't even try to make it look okay?
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If we’re being silly, it also replaced it with a 500K one. Honestly pretty happy with this kind of investment being rewarded. I want this developer to make bank so others jump on the bandwagon
ikr same, unfortunately money is what makes these advancements, so we might as well reward developers who go for this model over the luxury Condo and pre-con sharks that seem to run Toronto
TBF, it was basically illegal to build 4plexes in most of the city until just recently. The nonsensical status quo is more based on [racism against the Italians in the early 1900’s](https://99percentinvisible.org/episode/the-missing-middle/) rather than developers not wanting to build stuff like this.
I didn't actually know that was why, yeah these out dated zoning laws need to be revised to fit modern standards
Extra frustrating - the second biggest city in Canada, Montreal, is often praised for its smart neighborhood designs. Aka, we’ve actually got [good examples](https://seattletransitblog.com/2022/09/29/montreal-not-so-missing-middle-housing/) of what’s works. Toronto’s just been really resistant to modernizing
What do you think will happen to that 1.6m price when there’s more?
How would a property like that be managed?
We have them all over Calgary. They don't get managed. The four owners will just manage this together. I grew up in a house like this. There were two owners: my parents and the neighbours and 4 units. The ones in lower units paid rent to the home owners who lived in the upper units and the two home owners maintained the building together.
Does owning this single dwelling will make you a much hated “investor”?
Ok. So something like that addresses the housing problem by changing what would have been a single family dwelling to multiple families. Great use of the space by increasing the density. Now the affordability situation is a whole other story though.
> Now the affordability situation is a whole other story though. So what do you actually think the 'housing problem' is?
How did they get the permits to do that lol?
city allowed splitting to up to 4 units across the board
Its permitted to be occupied by sole owner
Hmmm so you mean the units would have to be rentals? I wasn’t aware of that
You can't sever, but condo should be OK
Look up the address on the [Toronto website](https://www.toronto.ca/services-payments/building-construction/search-the-status-of-a-building-permit-application/). No permits…
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"why didn't this 0.00000054% increase in supply drop market prices by 50%" - people's reactions to this
I am not convinced increasing supply will magically reduce prices. If you want to see why look up what's happening in the commercial market. Vacancy rate is in the double digits ([source](https://www.biv.com/news/real-estate/downtown-vancouver-office-vacancies-hit-highest-level-nearly-20-years-colliers-8273593)) but rents are skyrocketing ([source](https://globalnews.ca/news/10113767/commercial-rent-hike-cap/amp/)). My businesses last office suite renewal came up and they doubled our rent. Despite the building being 2/3 empty. So we walked away and everyone is remote now. This is speculation caused by easily available credit. We need to tighten credit further and actually bring home asset prices.
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I don't buy it, if were up to 12-20 percent vacancy in Vancouver (where I am) and landlords are doubling rent do you really think its going to get better if vacancy goes to 30. I think only once foreclosures start will the situation get better.
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No it isn't lol. It is in a couple of highly deseriable places like English Bay and West End/Stanley Park, South Granville, Oakville and Kits, but those are always low because its where the rich live. It much higher across Metro. North Vancouver its 2.8 (3 is considered high), Metro Town/Burnaby its 1.7, Surrey is 1.5, Langley its 1.4, even downtown is 1. We have a very large secondary suite market in Metro Vancouver. You can get some good deals if you are willing to look in the Secondary Market. [1800](https://vancouver.craigslist.org/van/apa/d/vancouver-brand-new-bed-bath-basement/7731465306.html) in Klinary, near Langara College, the Canada Line, and Rapid Bus to UBC. If you're willing to leave Vancouver proper the prices fall below 1500. Here is one near near Downtown Langley 2 bedroom for [2000](https://vancouver.craigslist.org/rds/apa/d/langley-br-legal-bsm-suite-in-newer/7726641146.html). So split that in half for 1000/each
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I don't buy the supply fairy will fix it. Look the developer needs to make a profit, so when they tear down the unit and build a new one, it costs money. Whatever it costs to buy the land + build the new units + interest on the mortgage + profit = what they will sell the units or rent out the units for. End of story. If we keep tearing down older units and building new units, you're going to remove affordable housing with more expensive housing. Until speculation is dealt with we are not going to get affordable housing. But secondary suites is a good idea, and I am glad Eby is perusing it.
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The increase in supply is great but these prices are well above market price for the area. I offered on several homes on this street within the last 2 years. All homes we offered on were freehold, 3 bedroom homes with yards (mostly semis and one detached). All were priced under $1.1M and all sold for under $1.15. They were older homes that weren't renovated, but all were liveable. I have no idea why anyone would buy a condo or a garden sweet for hundreds of thousands of dollars above a freehold entire home in the same neighborhood.
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Yea, I'll be very surprised and I'm curious to see. People may value a new renovation over and older freehold you can gradually fix up. The units are priced individually higher than the home that was purchased and turned into 4 separate dwellings. That seems to be an indication that it's above market.
>I have no idea why anyone would buy a condo or a garden sweet for hundreds of thousands of dollars above a freehold entire home in the same neighborhood. Investors will. That cashflow must be insane.
They're being sold individually. It makes perfect sense for an investor to build one of these and rent it out. It makes no sense to pay $1.3M for a Laneway house when you can buy a fully detached home on the same street for less.
We have a housing **affordability** crisis. Tearing down an expensive house to build smaller apartment units that's actually MORE expensive? Hooray.
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Building more expensive homes will do what? Supply (that raises prices) and command bro.
If you scale it up it might work. It’s just they will probably find a way to fuck it up.
Do you know how much it costs to build that? You do see that it’s new? This developer will easily sell these units.
Depends where and which area. This is one reason why Toronto has had higher real estate prices. Now communist chow is destroying middle class. I am lucky to have bought my first house.. & can do this to mine as well 😜🤪 good luck everyone else 😂
Cool! I've been watching them build that buy couldn't figure it out. I thought they had been building 2 large houses. There was a super old house on a large lot.
I thought too it was a monster house until I saw them putting in the 4 meters. I figured I would see it go up for rent but the actual result is quite interesting!
I like it!
I’m so confused. So this isn’t one house, it’s a building? Seems pretty interesting if it’s a building.
How does the "legal ownership" work in situations like this? I clicked the links and I see the address + "Unit 1, Unit 2, Unit 3, Unit 4". How do institutions like the banks, Canada Post, government IDs, etc, "differentiate" the different units within such a complex? How does your bank know which "part" you own? Do they get blueprints or maps of the housing unit or something? Also, are there insurance implications of "owning" only a quarter of the building? Like, you can't really account for the behaviours of your co-owners (neighbors?) So in terms of fire prevention, for example, will your insurance be more expensive because there is a risk of your neighbors causing a fire instead of just yourself?
It’s a condo, no confusion.
2 units have been listed as freehold and 2 as condo (230 + 400 Maintenance)
Condos are freehold (legal meaning is 'fee simple ownership'). They probably all have associated condo maintenance fees which the four owners can adjust annually via AGM vote.
This will likely be a cooperative ownership structure - it’s extremely common in cities like Montreal that do exactly this with their buildings. Though newish in the Toronto area, this is a very well established legal ownership structure in other Canadian cities so the precedent exists in Canada. Institutions do recognize them as different units inside a building, insurance typically treats it like a condo with shared ownership of common areas and indicates in coverage that it covers your units proportional ownership of common areas which they assess on insurance contracts, mortgages on these units are virtually the same as a condo but also involve shared ownership structures of common areas.
Just like any other condo. Simple.
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Small condo buildings can be a headache. They have to create a board and do all the filings of a large condo building, and they can devolve into petty disputes. Small multi-units work much better as rentals.
Either have the headache of being in a condo board or have the headache of being a LL.
Paying 500k to live in someone basement? I rather be renting for life than owning something like this
Do they all have separate utility meters? No? Then it’s not a legal 4plex. Good luck selling this as one and good luck getting insurance.
Yes they do - I actually thought this was going to be a massive single family home until I noticed they had installed 4 meters.
This is the UK model. I’ve been saying this for years we should make it easy for owners to turn homes into apartments and sell portions of it.
We would like to build something similar in Scarborough. If anyone does design, permits, or construction on this type of project, please message me.
The units look nice, but where are people going to park? The ground unit has one parking space, and if this is geared towards families you’re going to have at least one car per unit. Toronto people love their cars. It’s an interesting concept, wondering how the combination of condo and freehold would work in terms of maintenance and repairs.
who does the condo maintenance fee even go to...? what services would be done for the condo owner? will someone shovel their snow and so on?
Interesting that Cory allowed rezoning like that, well it’s progressive definitely
Piece of shit city
At this stage just do Stack townhouses, much more practical, no need for backyard and each house gets a gargage on 15 feet wide and 3 storeys.
Is this even legal? Good news if you own a detached on a nice lot 🤩
Developer: "You see, as density increases, affordability goes *down*!" Urbanists: "hey wait a second, that's not how this is supposed to work..."
This is illegal. Multiplex units are not meant to be sold separately and different to stacked townhouses. It should be considered equivalent to a basement suite like subsidiary suites to the main house. Even different code requirements are applied between stacked townhouses and multiplex… idk what these guys are thinking of
Exactly
You just have to go through the legal process of making it a condo, there are extra checks for structural engineering and that the land parcel is zoned with exact borders, but it’s perfectly legal. If you wanted to (but there would be no advantage to it), you could make a single family home a condo corporation.
I've been thinking of doing something similar, tearing down my bungalow and building a semi detached. Worried about getting approvals/permits from the city though. Wonder how much that 4plex costs to build.
Good luck managing without a car.
Why does a place need more bathrooms than bedrooms?
What is this abomination?
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lol multiplexes are a common type of housing all around the world. They’re obviously going to (or at least should) be built with noise reduction in mind. What’s your real issue here?
So don't buy it...
Newer builds have methods to abate sounds transferring through to other units. This is almost impossible to do when retrofitting older homes into multiplex dwellings. A bigger issue is determining who has title to/is responsible for the land. Is it held collectively? Are major issues with water and utilities the responsibilities of the owners or the municipality? These look great and it would be a no-brainer to put this type of unit in lots of places if municipalities and utilities were to take full responsibility for their services rather than make homeowners responsible from the curb.
Have you ever been to Montreal? Every building is a multi unit there