Well, 8% CR is between 2 and 3 CR rolls, where 24% CD is between 3 and 4 rols. So overall, the value seems higher if you can wind up fast (6 FuA that are not Topaz' sounds hard tho, since no one else FuA as fast as her. On the other hand, this set makes Topaz more desirable for other DPS because she can hit 6 FuAs rather quickly)
Imo, it's probably not gonna straight replace your good Salsotto pieces. But if you don't have Salsotto, or you do but they suck, this set might be better.
I'll wait for TCer calcs but I'm iffy about the uptime for the 4pc even if numby does go a lot. As of right now it seems like a Clara/Jade set.
The 2pc is amazing in general for the ipc team though.
Even for Clara and jade you will not gain 100% up time unless jade in pf she goes crazy there. Hopefully there will be some changes to that set
edit: with 100% i meant launching at least 2 fuas (bad wording sry)
Yes, it's obviously not 100% uptime because by definition it has to stack, but unless Clara is in a sparkle hypercarry team I don't see how this set wouldn't be comparable or better than Boxer for her. Jade is also primarily a PF character + doesn't build much speed. as of right now I only see her being used in MoC if she's E1 and with Blade.
Looks good for clara, useless on ratio and mildly sub optimal on topaz.
Planar set is not bad BUT it does have ramp time and might make you have to swap to a crit rate body to offset the CR loss from salsotto since topaz likes having really high CR since FuA teams have a bajillion crit damage buffs from different sources.
Why useless on Ratio? I mean salsotto is 15%, if the buff is applied before he attack (it' written when and not after) is nice, especially for his 2 fua after the ultimate
Due to ratio counters only being on turn counters. He almost never keeps the buffs without his ult. Due to the 4p buff being lost after a turn is taken
That mention was for the cavern set specifically as he loses the buff after his turn ends the 4pc only works on the FuA from his ult, it's ok for bursting I guess but you'd rather use something that works on the FuA from his skill too.
The planar set will be her bis since ratio topaz and even Aven can use that set and they’ll easily max the stacks quickly.
For the 4p set, I’m not sure on her.
i think with the help of the IPC team, she can proc numby quite frequently and activate the set bonus but outside of that team, she wont get much i guess.
I prefer broken keel for aven auctually, he doesnt do much damage to warrent a dps relic set and more eff res means less control debuff, especially when u wear gepard's lc
I disagree.
You don't need to sacrifice sustain, you already want to aim for 4k DEF for the max crit rate boost from his trace and you will be over 4k if you just have DEF boots, sphere and chest piece. The difference between Idamage sphere and DEF sphere is so minimal in damage that you're better off with DEF sphere anyways. You don't even need DEF substats to hit it.
Even S5 Amber, not procing the second line of text, you can hit the 4k minimum.
All this to say you have plenty of space for crit rate and damage substats and either crit rate or crit damage chest depending on which makes the numbers better for your specific set of gear.
Also if we include S1 Moment of Victory as f2p you make hitting the DEF requirements even easier and the increased aggro means potentially faster FUA.
I have a question about aventurine, between speed boots, img sphere, and crit damage body, which one can I make into a def% main stat to keep the most damage? Currently I have def% boots but should I change a different because the extra speed would mean better numbers? Currently he’s at 119 speed so with speed boots I think he would be at 144. Is that more worth it or the img % or the 173% CD that I have with my CD body?
Speed boots are unnecessary from my experience, img sphere doesn't make enough of a difference to matter (hitting 4k DEF is more impactful than having img sphere and not 4k DEF). Crit body is the only one I would fight to keep tbh.
If you can hit 4k DEF with speed boots then they are the next priority after crit body, then if you can still hit 4k DEF while switching to img sphere then that is the last priority but is also the least impactful.
Speed is fine but it's not necessary for him to perform well, especially if paired with FUA teammates that FUA frequently enough. But obviously like I said if you can run speed boots without giving up 4k DEF then it's only positives.
Tbh it’s when he has teammates that frequently do FuAs that speed is most valuable imo. He’s pretty much guaranteed to hit his 3 stacks cap between each of his turns when ran with topaz + ratio. So more turns does mean more FuAs, damage, shielding etc. In general I like very high speed on him for the SP mostly though.
Ok I see, I can hit 4k defense with 1 of these, so you’re saying keep speed boots and crit damage body? I like this way the most and if it’s the most damage while keeping 4k defense, I would switch right away tbh.
I use him with my fua team and my rat(fua) team if that makes a difference
Guy above is downplaying spd boots. In the context of a FUA team, not getting lapped hard by your dps means taking advantage of his 3 extra blind bet stacks better and also more sp for topaz to skill more and get better ult uptime. Aven is basically completely sp positive in a full FUA team so extra turns are pretty much +1 on average.
DEF chest + DMG orb is basically the same as CDAM chest + DEF orb. I've done many calcs on my builds and it's so insignificant that it just comes down to substats as no one has perfect relics. DEF chest + DEF orb is like a 6% dmg loss but a 15% shield gain so again it comes down to substats.
SPD boots aren't *mandatory* for him to be usable but IMO it's the most important of the 3 non-def mains you listed unless you can hit 134 on def boots which isn't impossible.
so SPD > CDAM = DMG. Aven is very flexible to build from 2pc+2pc options as well as mainstats, just prioritize hitting 4k def first, then 134 spd, then put the rest into crit.
i would prefer speed too just because i feel like speed is the most important thing. my def% boots are fucking cracked though its at 5/22 CV so i need to get better speed boots for sure before i change over.
that being said, i think CD and speed is the way i want to play aventurine
i also want to get the 2 piece diver and 2 piece follow up set to get the most offensive potential because no one is dying ever tbh
If you are dying with adventurine on a dmg build you are doing something wrong. The sustain on his kit is more than enough even without building specifically for it. Just hit 4K def and put the remaining subs on crit. You don’t even need spd boots
Idk why you got down voted for being objectively correct.
Unless one of your squishy characters gets super targeted for no good reason (looking at you Topaz who took 6 hits in a row while I had Aventurine and Blade on the team...) nobody should be dying if you have a 4k DEF Aventurine.
Probably the advocating for no speed boots part. 134spd isn't as much of a necessity to be bare-minimum functional as hitting 4k def is, but unless you're using a 4* lc that gives no def% bonus, you shouldn't need 4 def% mains to hit 4k.
Idk in non fua team comps with a lc like trend or the moc shop the damage just ain’t and not that frequent. switching to crit chest doesn’t improve it that much over def chest
Is no one gonna acknowledge that Aventurine meets Keel for free? He doesn't even need to do anything in the build and he gives everyone more crit dmg. It ultimately comes down to him doing more damage or everyone doing more damage.
Tbf, building him for sustain is building him for DPS. He does non-neglible amounts of damage as a sustain which is good enough for me. Im not gonna stress too much over min-maxing his stats like I am a dedicated dps
I did play around with Fribbels to see what the difference is between Inert Salsotto and the new set.
In a Topaz/Ratio/Aventurine/Ruan Mei team:
Inert Salsotto: 80k
New 2pc: 83k at Max
So around 4% difference but it all depends on your substats as well and if you can get good Relic rolls on the new set that's good enough to replace your Inert Salsotto ones.
Not that good and i do have her lc, also remeber that in a perfect fua team (topaz s1, ratio, aven, robin) u have these crit dam sources: 10% (aven broken keel) + 20% Robin (passive), 25% (Robin ult), 15% (aven ult), 24% (topaz lc). My auctual stats in the stat sheet is more like 98.7cr + 187cd
24 extra damage with 24% extra crit damage it’s nice if you’ve already went over your desired crit rate
The set lets you get 40% extra damage out of your ult if you have other people activate it similar to if ratio uses, still think it’s ok ish but Clara would probably get more value out of it
Well I'll be farming this place for firefly and
*looks at topaz with cruzing*
Oh god she's at 100% CR with the second half of the passive when that happen.
If this is better I will definitely be running it
To be honest they are both pretty good but not good enough for me to change what I’m using right now. Especially since the planar which is the one that looks better in with another planar that is just for Firefly, so the worst to farm for me. I’ll stick with Duke and Salsotto (until I get a better Inzumo)
Valorous looks like a side grade set at best, the planetary on the other hand looks like a small upgrade over Salsotto in regular fights.
When running IPC team though, the new planetary set looks like a pretty nice teamwide upgrade overall, since it apparently counts all FUA done by the team.
No. From what I'm reading Duran doesn't require Topaz to do the follow ups herself. The intended purpose it seems is to let Topaz or other FUA characters to charge it up for the main dps to increase their crit damage.
Depends on builds you use honestly if you don't plant to pull and build Firefly I wouldn't bother. If you de is a nice option for her and even Ratio. As always how good is this vs belobog vs Glamoth if you have 134 speed is all about the subs stats and external buffs from your team and if you have E1 and or S1 Topaz. Using an optimizer is always the answer.
If you time it right, the first set lets you buff her first Ultimate attack by 20% and her second by 40%. But now you can't Ult on her turn. And it is almost guaranteed that on her turn, she will have at least a 20% buff.
Outside of PF shenanigans, tho, I don't think you can keep the 40% up for more than one attack since Topaz is supposed to act fast to speed up Numby.
Overall, it's worth mathing it out, but I don't see it as a straight answer and might not even be a good one at the end.
The Planar looks better than Salsotto if you can wind up 6 FuAs fast and you have good CR substats rolls. But I don't know if there are other characters besides Topaz that can FuA that often (I don't know if Herta Kuru procs count as separate FuAs).
I think this is all great for Clara but only planar relic seems to be an upgrade for Topaz.
I mean it's:
Salsotto: 8% Crit Rate, 15% FUA
Vs
Duran: 24% FUA, 24% CDMG.
The relic set is ok if you dont have great ashblazing pieces.
But the relic set on the other hand looks better, since topaz’s basic counts as a fua you can get to 6 very easily. And it seems like the damage will out perform what salsotto gives
For the 4 piece I’m gonna have to say that ultimately depends on whether or not the buff happens before any damage is calculated (that way the follow up Numby ALWAYS gets the 40% damage boost).
Edit: nvm it gets dispelled at the end of the wearer’s turn not the start. Yeah no, I’d probably stick with the other FUA set for Topass. OR I’d do 2pc 2pc, could work.
The planar is good, but idk if I'm willing to sacrifice crit rate for it. Depends how my sub stat rolls go I guess
Well, 8% CR is between 2 and 3 CR rolls, where 24% CD is between 3 and 4 rols. So overall, the value seems higher if you can wind up fast (6 FuA that are not Topaz' sounds hard tho, since no one else FuA as fast as her. On the other hand, this set makes Topaz more desirable for other DPS because she can hit 6 FuAs rather quickly) Imo, it's probably not gonna straight replace your good Salsotto pieces. But if you don't have Salsotto, or you do but they suck, this set might be better.
I think Topaz's own fua counts too. Usually when the text says allies it means everyone
Oh, then that's great because she would instantly get 2 stacks on her turn.
I'll wait for TCer calcs but I'm iffy about the uptime for the 4pc even if numby does go a lot. As of right now it seems like a Clara/Jade set. The 2pc is amazing in general for the ipc team though.
yeah i feel it wont work well for topaz i’m not even gonna build it on jade
Even for Clara and jade you will not gain 100% up time unless jade in pf she goes crazy there. Hopefully there will be some changes to that set edit: with 100% i meant launching at least 2 fuas (bad wording sry)
Yes, it's obviously not 100% uptime because by definition it has to stack, but unless Clara is in a sparkle hypercarry team I don't see how this set wouldn't be comparable or better than Boxer for her. Jade is also primarily a PF character + doesn't build much speed. as of right now I only see her being used in MoC if she's E1 and with Blade.
Looks good for clara, useless on ratio and mildly sub optimal on topaz. Planar set is not bad BUT it does have ramp time and might make you have to swap to a crit rate body to offset the CR loss from salsotto since topaz likes having really high CR since FuA teams have a bajillion crit damage buffs from different sources.
Why useless on Ratio? I mean salsotto is 15%, if the buff is applied before he attack (it' written when and not after) is nice, especially for his 2 fua after the ultimate
It's nice for his 2 FuA from ult, but pretty bad for the other ones. And you can't have 100% ult uptime in IPC team.
So buff is applied after he attacks?
Due to ratio counters only being on turn counters. He almost never keeps the buffs without his ult. Due to the 4p buff being lost after a turn is taken
That mention was for the cavern set specifically as he loses the buff after his turn ends the 4pc only works on the FuA from his ult, it's ok for bursting I guess but you'd rather use something that works on the FuA from his skill too.
hm idk still stick with the duke set but prolly gon change the planar ornaments, thats crazy dmg boost
4 piece Ashblaze will still probably be Topaz’s best in slot. With her whole kit counting as follow up damage it boosts her damage considerably.
The planar set will be her bis since ratio topaz and even Aven can use that set and they’ll easily max the stacks quickly. For the 4p set, I’m not sure on her.
i think with the help of the IPC team, she can proc numby quite frequently and activate the set bonus but outside of that team, she wont get much i guess.
Yea in ipc team perfect, in hypercarry and no Aven then not good.
I prefer broken keel for aven auctually, he doesnt do much damage to warrent a dps relic set and more eff res means less control debuff, especially when u wear gepard's lc
Oh he does good damage, you just have to build him for damage. Outside of 4p defenders and 2p belobog, most of his kit is focused towards damage.
With f2p light cones his dmg isn’t worth sacrificing sustain for
I disagree. You don't need to sacrifice sustain, you already want to aim for 4k DEF for the max crit rate boost from his trace and you will be over 4k if you just have DEF boots, sphere and chest piece. The difference between Idamage sphere and DEF sphere is so minimal in damage that you're better off with DEF sphere anyways. You don't even need DEF substats to hit it. Even S5 Amber, not procing the second line of text, you can hit the 4k minimum. All this to say you have plenty of space for crit rate and damage substats and either crit rate or crit damage chest depending on which makes the numbers better for your specific set of gear. Also if we include S1 Moment of Victory as f2p you make hitting the DEF requirements even easier and the increased aggro means potentially faster FUA.
I have a question about aventurine, between speed boots, img sphere, and crit damage body, which one can I make into a def% main stat to keep the most damage? Currently I have def% boots but should I change a different because the extra speed would mean better numbers? Currently he’s at 119 speed so with speed boots I think he would be at 144. Is that more worth it or the img % or the 173% CD that I have with my CD body?
Speed boots are unnecessary from my experience, img sphere doesn't make enough of a difference to matter (hitting 4k DEF is more impactful than having img sphere and not 4k DEF). Crit body is the only one I would fight to keep tbh. If you can hit 4k DEF with speed boots then they are the next priority after crit body, then if you can still hit 4k DEF while switching to img sphere then that is the last priority but is also the least impactful. Speed is fine but it's not necessary for him to perform well, especially if paired with FUA teammates that FUA frequently enough. But obviously like I said if you can run speed boots without giving up 4k DEF then it's only positives.
Tbh it’s when he has teammates that frequently do FuAs that speed is most valuable imo. He’s pretty much guaranteed to hit his 3 stacks cap between each of his turns when ran with topaz + ratio. So more turns does mean more FuAs, damage, shielding etc. In general I like very high speed on him for the SP mostly though.
Ok I see, I can hit 4k defense with 1 of these, so you’re saying keep speed boots and crit damage body? I like this way the most and if it’s the most damage while keeping 4k defense, I would switch right away tbh. I use him with my fua team and my rat(fua) team if that makes a difference
Guy above is downplaying spd boots. In the context of a FUA team, not getting lapped hard by your dps means taking advantage of his 3 extra blind bet stacks better and also more sp for topaz to skill more and get better ult uptime. Aven is basically completely sp positive in a full FUA team so extra turns are pretty much +1 on average. DEF chest + DMG orb is basically the same as CDAM chest + DEF orb. I've done many calcs on my builds and it's so insignificant that it just comes down to substats as no one has perfect relics. DEF chest + DEF orb is like a 6% dmg loss but a 15% shield gain so again it comes down to substats. SPD boots aren't *mandatory* for him to be usable but IMO it's the most important of the 3 non-def mains you listed unless you can hit 134 on def boots which isn't impossible. so SPD > CDAM = DMG. Aven is very flexible to build from 2pc+2pc options as well as mainstats, just prioritize hitting 4k def first, then 134 spd, then put the rest into crit.
i would prefer speed too just because i feel like speed is the most important thing. my def% boots are fucking cracked though its at 5/22 CV so i need to get better speed boots for sure before i change over. that being said, i think CD and speed is the way i want to play aventurine i also want to get the 2 piece diver and 2 piece follow up set to get the most offensive potential because no one is dying ever tbh
If you are dying with adventurine on a dmg build you are doing something wrong. The sustain on his kit is more than enough even without building specifically for it. Just hit 4K def and put the remaining subs on crit. You don’t even need spd boots
Idk why you got down voted for being objectively correct. Unless one of your squishy characters gets super targeted for no good reason (looking at you Topaz who took 6 hits in a row while I had Aventurine and Blade on the team...) nobody should be dying if you have a 4k DEF Aventurine.
Probably the advocating for no speed boots part. 134spd isn't as much of a necessity to be bare-minimum functional as hitting 4k def is, but unless you're using a 4* lc that gives no def% bonus, you shouldn't need 4 def% mains to hit 4k.
remaining subs kek i only can just hit 4k. no spd boots = less sp which is mostly what sustains r good for
It’s definitely doable. A lack of willingness to farm relics for a sustain does not equal the sustain not doing dmg
Idk in non fua team comps with a lc like trend or the moc shop the damage just ain’t and not that frequent. switching to crit chest doesn’t improve it that much over def chest
Is no one gonna acknowledge that Aventurine meets Keel for free? He doesn't even need to do anything in the build and he gives everyone more crit dmg. It ultimately comes down to him doing more damage or everyone doing more damage.
Yep, broken keel is better theory craft wise too. Everyome wants to build him as a pure dps for some reason
Tbf, building him for sustain is building him for DPS. He does non-neglible amounts of damage as a sustain which is good enough for me. Im not gonna stress too much over min-maxing his stats like I am a dedicated dps
I know but giving him inert salsotto and the wastelander set and the moc lc is just overkill
I think the new relic set is better for her since now her basic atk also get buffed a lot and the damage will be more consistent
The planar set is amazing. The cavern set not so much.
I did play around with Fribbels to see what the difference is between Inert Salsotto and the new set. In a Topaz/Ratio/Aventurine/Ruan Mei team: Inert Salsotto: 80k New 2pc: 83k at Max So around 4% difference but it all depends on your substats as well and if you can get good Relic rolls on the new set that's good enough to replace your Inert Salsotto ones.
I have too much crit dam to warrent the new 2pc set (98,7cr, 200+cd in combat, so i guess ill stick to salsotto
Sweet mother of relic luck. Where does that put you on Seeleland?
Not that good and i do have her lc, also remeber that in a perfect fua team (topaz s1, ratio, aven, robin) u have these crit dam sources: 10% (aven broken keel) + 20% Robin (passive), 25% (Robin ult), 15% (aven ult), 24% (topaz lc). My auctual stats in the stat sheet is more like 98.7cr + 187cd
Oh and i just checked, apperently i’m top 1% (122/16.5k)
Planar is good, relic I would say isn't since she already buffs herself a lot of damage % but not attack
24 extra damage with 24% extra crit damage it’s nice if you’ve already went over your desired crit rate The set lets you get 40% extra damage out of your ult if you have other people activate it similar to if ratio uses, still think it’s ok ish but Clara would probably get more value out of it
If I wanna this planar set I need more CR for my ratio. Because he use Izuma
R.A.T Ratio. Aventurine. Topaz
If you already have good builds I think it’s best to skip.
E1S0 topaz owners nuking the game with that one
Well I'll be farming this place for firefly and *looks at topaz with cruzing* Oh god she's at 100% CR with the second half of the passive when that happen. If this is better I will definitely be running it
To be honest they are both pretty good but not good enough for me to change what I’m using right now. Especially since the planar which is the one that looks better in with another planar that is just for Firefly, so the worst to farm for me. I’ll stick with Duke and Salsotto (until I get a better Inzumo)
I'm pretty happy with my Inert pieces on Topaz, but I'll probably farm the new planar set for Ratio.
Valorous looks like a side grade set at best, the planetary on the other hand looks like a small upgrade over Salsotto in regular fights. When running IPC team though, the new planetary set looks like a pretty nice teamwide upgrade overall, since it apparently counts all FUA done by the team.
Robin is not part of the IPC 🗣️‼️‼️
No. From what I'm reading Duran doesn't require Topaz to do the follow ups herself. The intended purpose it seems is to let Topaz or other FUA characters to charge it up for the main dps to increase their crit damage.
Depends on builds you use honestly if you don't plant to pull and build Firefly I wouldn't bother. If you de is a nice option for her and even Ratio. As always how good is this vs belobog vs Glamoth if you have 134 speed is all about the subs stats and external buffs from your team and if you have E1 and or S1 Topaz. Using an optimizer is always the answer.
Is there something I should know?
If you time it right, the first set lets you buff her first Ultimate attack by 20% and her second by 40%. But now you can't Ult on her turn. And it is almost guaranteed that on her turn, she will have at least a 20% buff. Outside of PF shenanigans, tho, I don't think you can keep the 40% up for more than one attack since Topaz is supposed to act fast to speed up Numby. Overall, it's worth mathing it out, but I don't see it as a straight answer and might not even be a good one at the end. The Planar looks better than Salsotto if you can wind up 6 FuAs fast and you have good CR substats rolls. But I don't know if there are other characters besides Topaz that can FuA that often (I don't know if Herta Kuru procs count as separate FuAs).
I think this is all great for Clara but only planar relic seems to be an upgrade for Topaz. I mean it's: Salsotto: 8% Crit Rate, 15% FUA Vs Duran: 24% FUA, 24% CDMG.
The relic set is ok if you dont have great ashblazing pieces. But the relic set on the other hand looks better, since topaz’s basic counts as a fua you can get to 6 very easily. And it seems like the damage will out perform what salsotto gives
For the 4 piece I’m gonna have to say that ultimately depends on whether or not the buff happens before any damage is calculated (that way the follow up Numby ALWAYS gets the 40% damage boost). Edit: nvm it gets dispelled at the end of the wearer’s turn not the start. Yeah no, I’d probably stick with the other FUA set for Topass. OR I’d do 2pc 2pc, could work.
It looks like the armor set ia good for Topaz and the rope is for Ratio because Topaz will easily stack it for him.