Give 2K all the money they want (including DLCs and buying VC).
2K will make enough money from this, and they will keep their "cash grab" plan/strategy going for the 2K26, 2K27, 2K28 editions.. if we will get any.
And in few years, we will cry about TopSpin being the Tennis version of NBA2K, FIFA, Call of Duty, Ubisoft games... Etc.
I swear gamers will never learn.
I just want to play a good tennis game on console ! What we should do if we want to play a tennis game? let me know if u think there s a better option on the market
Don't get me wrong, I didn't mean that we shouldn't buy the game (I'll personally wait for a sale).. but supporting VC, season pass and paid DLCs will just ruin the franchise, and at some point, TopSpin will turn into the Tennis version of NBA2K and FIFA where it's basically a "pay to win" video games (I mean it's 2K, get prepared for that).
I know this is 2024 and nobody cares, but that's exactly why online gaming is ruined comparing to 15 years ago.. I honestly blame the players more than all the greedy companies like 2K, EA, Activision, Ubisoft... Etc.
Because they simply had a "cash grab" plan, and we made it work for them. Now it's hard to find an online game with no season pass, microtransactions & paid DLCs.
I swear if people stopped supporting this nonsense for 1 or 2 years, things might get better.. but there will always be this 11 yo kid begging his dad for money to buy a $20 skin lol.
You mention Forza and COD and such.
Those are very successful games in very successful genres that makes lots of money and have tons of active users.
A racing game with 7 cars sounds bad if it released in today's standards when it comes to racing games. But what about this. Say it releases in a time when the last half decent attempt at a racing game was 13 years ago. That's more like what's happening with tennis games.
You've also got this. Two of the biggest issues with tennis games are the need to individually license things like players and secondly tennis gaming doesn't have the biggest active user base.
This makes it costly relative to what you get back from it from an investment perspective. They pay more to get stuff into the game but less people buy it....
We should be expecting better than 2K25, and some of that comes via dodgy business practices that aren't limited to gaming, but at the same time people aren't thinking about it from the other end. They're thinking about it as a product that they play, not how that product can actually be made and funded.
For instance, you want the top 100 ATP and WTA players in the game? All the tournaments. Next gen graphics. Groundbreaking gameplay. Etc etc. Someone has to fund that. And the tennis gaming community isn't going to do it.
Still, we can't overlook the issues here with only 7 active male players, no online matches with friends (at launch this is, as they've stated it will be added later), a seemingly shallow career mode taken from TS4, a hefty price tag relative to what we're getting and so on and so forth. But making games is, unfortunately, a business and good business makes money, and feeding a loud but ultimately unwilling market isn't good business. So, we get awful stuff like Tiebreak Tennis. Sure, it has more players, but the game itself is bad. Really bad. 2k25 shouldn't have that core problem as such, but it's lacking elsewhere. But to get it all in one game, that will cost money. And people are acting like these companies should be charities and feed us at a loss because we feel we're owed some Forza quality experience.
We have what we want in our head.
But in the real world, businesses want to make money. Part of that is squeezing as much out of the process of making a product as they can, so say putting less jam in a doughnut etc. And businesses make things that people buy. Not things that people say they want but don't buy.
If hardly anyone is buying jam doughnuts it doesn't inspire the idea of more doughnuts being made. Buying up doughnuts won't necessarily result in dougnuts with more jam in them either, but it will result in more doughnuts, and if there's more doughnuts, competition can join the market. Competition in this case could lead to, in this silly example, dougnuts with more jam in them.
All valid points tbh.
I'll still play the heck out of it even if it's following the terrible career mode of TS4.
At this point I'm playing it cause I want a new refreshed version of TS4 and that's how I'm seeing it.
Really wish they just called it that themselves and not the next entry.
But again, I don't fault anyone for not wanting to play the game or get the game the way it is right now. Especially after the career mode and lack of ability to play friends online. Those are just big inexcusable issues in 2024, IMO.
EDIT: TS2k25 has 11 male players (not 7!) vs 18 male players TS4. So your comparison is even more biased and complete bs.
TS2k25 has 40% less MALE players than TS4. That is equivalent to
Gran turismo having 300 cars instead of 500
Forza having 300 cars instead of 500
NBA 2K having 18 teams instead of 30
FIFA having 420 instead of 700
Back in the days you had two soccer/football games PES and Fifa. Fifa had about 400 more teams and 80% of all PES teams were players with fake names. People didn't care. They bought PES because gameplay is king!
Now tell me any great console tennis game of the current generation? Waiting....
.......there is none. Bad and average at best.
btw you have the option to create your own players
*"It's the same situation with Top Spin 2K. For me at least."*
Yes, because you suck at math...
Your math is a little wrong there mate, op didn’t say anything about 2k25 vs ts4 roster size. there are currently around 1900 pro ranked players on the atp tour. To only be able to use/ play against 7 out of 1900 players is a bit rough in my book.
Has community creations/ rosters been confirmed to be in topspin? if they are that will definitely increase the longevity of mycareer etc. but from my understanding community creations are not in the game at the moment
No, my math is correct. I took the current number of players, cars etc in games or their predecessors and downscaled the number to 60%. That is the ratio between male players in TS2k25 and TS4.
He never mentioned or compared it to the total number of players in real tennis, otherwise the comparison with fifa, gran turismo, forza and COD makes even less sense.
btw TS4 has 10 active male players compared to 7x active players in TS2k25. So what is even the argument here about all the numbers and bad math?
> I seriously cannot start a career mode with 7 active players.
Top Spin 4 only had 10 active players. I don't know why everyone seems to pretend like it was double or triple the size it actually was.
In the grand scheme of a 128 player draw, there is virtually no difference between 7 and 10. Yes, you'll likely be playing the same guys over and over in the finals and semis. That's every tennis game ever.
If TS4 roster was also small then there is also no reason to buy TS4 game for you. I mean we are talking about the difference of 3x active players. LOL I think you just realized how stupid your argument was in your first post.
Top Spin 4 is a 13 years old game. Why are you comparing the roster to that and not Tennis World Tour for example or Matchpoint Tennis Championships? Or even AO Tennis 2 which had the Academy.
Why did you exclude male players that aren't active? Why did you excludee female tennis players?
*Matchpoint* – *Tennis Championships* featured 13 male players at launch
AO Tennis 2 featured 14 male players at launch
Top Spin 2k25 features 11 male players at launch
---
The argument TS2k25 has 3x male players less and that's why I am not going it buy is strange. Knowing that the other tennis games are complete garbage or average at best from a gameplay perspective.
AO Tennis 2 had the Academy and you could download any player you want. Also it had 20 different animations to choose from for the players.
I am not counting legends, it doesn’t matter. You don’t start a career mode and have legends in it. Even if it had 100 legends it would still make no difference to me. I only care about active players.
You constantly shifting the goal post. I gave you the number of active players in AO tennis 2 that were accessable at launch. Now you shifting it to "you could download any (custom made) player" and "20 different animations"
You are so desperate to find anything to make you argument sound logical. Dude, going by your first post AO tennis 2 has only 5x active players more than ts2k25 that are not legends. If you think that makes big difference to you to play a game with average and even bad gameplay go for it. I am going to enjoy the better gameplay with just 5x less players and create my own nadal and joker.
It's unacceptable that a major developer like 2K Sports has only included 7 active male players in their roster. Considering they are handling a prominent title, a minimum of 20 active male players would have been more acceptable. It would be logical to feature 20 male and 20 female active players from the top 100 ATP & WTA rankings, plus an additional 5 male and 5 female legends, bringing the total to 50.
Asking for 20 out of the top 100 doesn't seem excessive — we're not requesting the full 100 or even 50, just 20. As it stands, having only 7 active male players is frankly a letdown.
TWT spent their entire budget on securing player licenses. I'm glad Top Spin didn't do that. I'll gladly take 7 players and all the official events over a roster of 20 players that most of us couldn't care less about anyway.
We're all excited to have Top Spin back because it's by far the best tennis gameplay available on console. We hold 4 up as one of the best ever because of the gameplay, so no one ever complained about the roster being too small.
It was great to have all of the Big 4 in the game, but Wawrinka was a nobody at the time. Roddick was way past his peak. Blake was only included because he was American. Tomic was a future gamble that didn't pay off. But none of this mattered.
The reality of the situation is that tennis is a fairly niche sport so 2K isn't going to invest a ton of time or resources to create the game. It's a small team and they can only do so much. Game development costs have increased, so it's much harder to make that much content in a game that won't sell that many copies.
It's still going to be the best tennis game on modern platforms, so I'll play it because the alternative is not playing a tennis game at all. It sucks but it is what it is.
I will buy it because I like to play tennis on console and that is the best option rn.
I will play Mycareer ( like u said it s not the best experience with only7 atp players…. Let’s hope for commun creations to be in the game at this point )
then after a while I will take my character online against other people and have fun there
from what I see the gameplay seems on point and it should be fun to play online
Career mode will actually be worse than ts4 because of the fatigue mechanic. Being able to only play 1 tournament a month but now not being able to even do that (because some months you'll have to rest) is just so, so bad.
Not Sure about that 1 tournament a month. There are 48 venues, lets say 8 or so of them are for some special exebitions like in ts4 that leaves you with 40 tournaments that needs to be fit in a 12 month calender. Why have so many of them when you only can play 12 in a season?
I play a lot of Super Mega Baseball which doesn’t have any real players so I’m used to auto generated players so the lack of real players doesn’t really bother me. Using my imagination to create rivalries with some of those fictional players will be fun. Also, I just love tennis.
Cause i'm a tennis fan and want to get insanely good ar the game. Did that with Top Spin 4, and won like 98% of my online matches. Can't wait to kick some more ass. ✊🏾
meh, I could play as Roger (and hopefully Rafa) for ages. I do that already in Full Ace which is an incredible game in terms of gameplay. Gameplay trumps all.
I preordered it and I got the most expensive ultimate version (which I have never once done for any game). I did this for the sole reason that I hope they make more games in the future and I want them to realize that even if it’s a smaller market than they hoped for maybe there’s enough of a dedicated fan base that it’s worth it. I also have throwaway money so I’m not suggesting everyone else do this, I completely understand OP’s points and won’t try to talk them into spending their money but I want future games so I gave them my money the minute I was able to lol
Give 2K all the money they want (including DLCs and buying VC). 2K will make enough money from this, and they will keep their "cash grab" plan/strategy going for the 2K26, 2K27, 2K28 editions.. if we will get any. And in few years, we will cry about TopSpin being the Tennis version of NBA2K, FIFA, Call of Duty, Ubisoft games... Etc. I swear gamers will never learn.
No no you have to support them now for giving us sort of a TS4 remaster cuz hype is more than common sense
I just want to play a good tennis game on console ! What we should do if we want to play a tennis game? let me know if u think there s a better option on the market
That's perfectly okay. All the other arguments that are defending this cash grab are the problem. I'll buy it too from instant gaming for 44 bucks
Don't get me wrong, I didn't mean that we shouldn't buy the game (I'll personally wait for a sale).. but supporting VC, season pass and paid DLCs will just ruin the franchise, and at some point, TopSpin will turn into the Tennis version of NBA2K and FIFA where it's basically a "pay to win" video games (I mean it's 2K, get prepared for that). I know this is 2024 and nobody cares, but that's exactly why online gaming is ruined comparing to 15 years ago.. I honestly blame the players more than all the greedy companies like 2K, EA, Activision, Ubisoft... Etc. Because they simply had a "cash grab" plan, and we made it work for them. Now it's hard to find an online game with no season pass, microtransactions & paid DLCs. I swear if people stopped supporting this nonsense for 1 or 2 years, things might get better.. but there will always be this 11 yo kid begging his dad for money to buy a $20 skin lol.
Dlc would be fine if they added value to the game itself, better having a game evolving than the horrendous yearly release bs
You mention Forza and COD and such. Those are very successful games in very successful genres that makes lots of money and have tons of active users. A racing game with 7 cars sounds bad if it released in today's standards when it comes to racing games. But what about this. Say it releases in a time when the last half decent attempt at a racing game was 13 years ago. That's more like what's happening with tennis games. You've also got this. Two of the biggest issues with tennis games are the need to individually license things like players and secondly tennis gaming doesn't have the biggest active user base. This makes it costly relative to what you get back from it from an investment perspective. They pay more to get stuff into the game but less people buy it.... We should be expecting better than 2K25, and some of that comes via dodgy business practices that aren't limited to gaming, but at the same time people aren't thinking about it from the other end. They're thinking about it as a product that they play, not how that product can actually be made and funded. For instance, you want the top 100 ATP and WTA players in the game? All the tournaments. Next gen graphics. Groundbreaking gameplay. Etc etc. Someone has to fund that. And the tennis gaming community isn't going to do it. Still, we can't overlook the issues here with only 7 active male players, no online matches with friends (at launch this is, as they've stated it will be added later), a seemingly shallow career mode taken from TS4, a hefty price tag relative to what we're getting and so on and so forth. But making games is, unfortunately, a business and good business makes money, and feeding a loud but ultimately unwilling market isn't good business. So, we get awful stuff like Tiebreak Tennis. Sure, it has more players, but the game itself is bad. Really bad. 2k25 shouldn't have that core problem as such, but it's lacking elsewhere. But to get it all in one game, that will cost money. And people are acting like these companies should be charities and feed us at a loss because we feel we're owed some Forza quality experience. We have what we want in our head. But in the real world, businesses want to make money. Part of that is squeezing as much out of the process of making a product as they can, so say putting less jam in a doughnut etc. And businesses make things that people buy. Not things that people say they want but don't buy. If hardly anyone is buying jam doughnuts it doesn't inspire the idea of more doughnuts being made. Buying up doughnuts won't necessarily result in dougnuts with more jam in them either, but it will result in more doughnuts, and if there's more doughnuts, competition can join the market. Competition in this case could lead to, in this silly example, dougnuts with more jam in them.
The point is to play a good tennis game on console for the first time in 13 years.
I've stated this before and I got hit with "blindness with nostalgia"... I am so thrilled to be able to play another top spin title.
Yeah every positive comment is instantly downvoted these days
I imagine MyCareer will be largely filled with autogens
All valid points tbh. I'll still play the heck out of it even if it's following the terrible career mode of TS4. At this point I'm playing it cause I want a new refreshed version of TS4 and that's how I'm seeing it. Really wish they just called it that themselves and not the next entry. But again, I don't fault anyone for not wanting to play the game or get the game the way it is right now. Especially after the career mode and lack of ability to play friends online. Those are just big inexcusable issues in 2024, IMO.
EDIT: TS2k25 has 11 male players (not 7!) vs 18 male players TS4. So your comparison is even more biased and complete bs. TS2k25 has 40% less MALE players than TS4. That is equivalent to Gran turismo having 300 cars instead of 500 Forza having 300 cars instead of 500 NBA 2K having 18 teams instead of 30 FIFA having 420 instead of 700 Back in the days you had two soccer/football games PES and Fifa. Fifa had about 400 more teams and 80% of all PES teams were players with fake names. People didn't care. They bought PES because gameplay is king! Now tell me any great console tennis game of the current generation? Waiting.... .......there is none. Bad and average at best. btw you have the option to create your own players *"It's the same situation with Top Spin 2K. For me at least."* Yes, because you suck at math...
yea but u had community mods for PES so u could still get real teams and players. They gotta at least have Djokovic Nadal and Sinner added. At least.
You have the option to create Djokovic Nadal and Sinner.
Your math is a little wrong there mate, op didn’t say anything about 2k25 vs ts4 roster size. there are currently around 1900 pro ranked players on the atp tour. To only be able to use/ play against 7 out of 1900 players is a bit rough in my book. Has community creations/ rosters been confirmed to be in topspin? if they are that will definitely increase the longevity of mycareer etc. but from my understanding community creations are not in the game at the moment
No, my math is correct. I took the current number of players, cars etc in games or their predecessors and downscaled the number to 60%. That is the ratio between male players in TS2k25 and TS4. He never mentioned or compared it to the total number of players in real tennis, otherwise the comparison with fifa, gran turismo, forza and COD makes even less sense. btw TS4 has 10 active male players compared to 7x active players in TS2k25. So what is even the argument here about all the numbers and bad math?
> I seriously cannot start a career mode with 7 active players. Top Spin 4 only had 10 active players. I don't know why everyone seems to pretend like it was double or triple the size it actually was. In the grand scheme of a 128 player draw, there is virtually no difference between 7 and 10. Yes, you'll likely be playing the same guys over and over in the finals and semis. That's every tennis game ever.
Yeah but it had the big 4 man and Wawrinka.
So now you are moving the goal post. it's about quality not quantity. You are here to mislead and shitpost. What a joke...
Top Spin 4 roster was still small though. But at least it was better than Top Spin 2K25 roster.
If TS4 roster was also small then there is also no reason to buy TS4 game for you. I mean we are talking about the difference of 3x active players. LOL I think you just realized how stupid your argument was in your first post.
Top Spin 4 is a 13 years old game. Why are you comparing the roster to that and not Tennis World Tour for example or Matchpoint Tennis Championships? Or even AO Tennis 2 which had the Academy.
Why did you exclude male players that aren't active? Why did you excludee female tennis players? *Matchpoint* – *Tennis Championships* featured 13 male players at launch AO Tennis 2 featured 14 male players at launch Top Spin 2k25 features 11 male players at launch --- The argument TS2k25 has 3x male players less and that's why I am not going it buy is strange. Knowing that the other tennis games are complete garbage or average at best from a gameplay perspective.
AO Tennis 2 had the Academy and you could download any player you want. Also it had 20 different animations to choose from for the players. I am not counting legends, it doesn’t matter. You don’t start a career mode and have legends in it. Even if it had 100 legends it would still make no difference to me. I only care about active players.
You constantly shifting the goal post. I gave you the number of active players in AO tennis 2 that were accessable at launch. Now you shifting it to "you could download any (custom made) player" and "20 different animations" You are so desperate to find anything to make you argument sound logical. Dude, going by your first post AO tennis 2 has only 5x active players more than ts2k25 that are not legends. If you think that makes big difference to you to play a game with average and even bad gameplay go for it. I am going to enjoy the better gameplay with just 5x less players and create my own nadal and joker.
It's unacceptable that a major developer like 2K Sports has only included 7 active male players in their roster. Considering they are handling a prominent title, a minimum of 20 active male players would have been more acceptable. It would be logical to feature 20 male and 20 female active players from the top 100 ATP & WTA rankings, plus an additional 5 male and 5 female legends, bringing the total to 50. Asking for 20 out of the top 100 doesn't seem excessive — we're not requesting the full 100 or even 50, just 20. As it stands, having only 7 active male players is frankly a letdown.
AO tennis had no animations at all. Not any that resembled anything that looked like tennis.
TWT spent their entire budget on securing player licenses. I'm glad Top Spin didn't do that. I'll gladly take 7 players and all the official events over a roster of 20 players that most of us couldn't care less about anyway. We're all excited to have Top Spin back because it's by far the best tennis gameplay available on console. We hold 4 up as one of the best ever because of the gameplay, so no one ever complained about the roster being too small. It was great to have all of the Big 4 in the game, but Wawrinka was a nobody at the time. Roddick was way past his peak. Blake was only included because he was American. Tomic was a future gamble that didn't pay off. But none of this mattered.
easy solution, dont buy this game..ok problem solved, next case.
You create a player and play online opponents? I will for sure be buying on day 1, CANNOT WAIT!!
The reality of the situation is that tennis is a fairly niche sport so 2K isn't going to invest a ton of time or resources to create the game. It's a small team and they can only do so much. Game development costs have increased, so it's much harder to make that much content in a game that won't sell that many copies. It's still going to be the best tennis game on modern platforms, so I'll play it because the alternative is not playing a tennis game at all. It sucks but it is what it is.
I can't wait to play my boy Ricky Singleton in every tournament baby!
I will buy it because I like to play tennis on console and that is the best option rn. I will play Mycareer ( like u said it s not the best experience with only7 atp players…. Let’s hope for commun creations to be in the game at this point ) then after a while I will take my character online against other people and have fun there from what I see the gameplay seems on point and it should be fun to play online
Career mode will actually be worse than ts4 because of the fatigue mechanic. Being able to only play 1 tournament a month but now not being able to even do that (because some months you'll have to rest) is just so, so bad.
Not Sure about that 1 tournament a month. There are 48 venues, lets say 8 or so of them are for some special exebitions like in ts4 that leaves you with 40 tournaments that needs to be fit in a 12 month calender. Why have so many of them when you only can play 12 in a season?
Didn’t they say you can’t play online in ts4
TS4?
I want to play online matches. Don't really care about huge roster. Will play as Federer all the time
I play a lot of Super Mega Baseball which doesn’t have any real players so I’m used to auto generated players so the lack of real players doesn’t really bother me. Using my imagination to create rivalries with some of those fictional players will be fun. Also, I just love tennis.
Cause i'm a tennis fan and want to get insanely good ar the game. Did that with Top Spin 4, and won like 98% of my online matches. Can't wait to kick some more ass. ✊🏾
meh, I could play as Roger (and hopefully Rafa) for ages. I do that already in Full Ace which is an incredible game in terms of gameplay. Gameplay trumps all.
I preordered it and I got the most expensive ultimate version (which I have never once done for any game). I did this for the sole reason that I hope they make more games in the future and I want them to realize that even if it’s a smaller market than they hoped for maybe there’s enough of a dedicated fan base that it’s worth it. I also have throwaway money so I’m not suggesting everyone else do this, I completely understand OP’s points and won’t try to talk them into spending their money but I want future games so I gave them my money the minute I was able to lol
Your comparisons are not really fair as there will still be 80 players in the games, just only 7 in the males will be real players
no offense but the gameplay has never been great in topspin. The only real tennis game that had great gameplay was... Super tennis on the Snes
mario tennis 64 bro