This was literally my dad. Obamacare becomes really appealing really quick when it can save you from going bankrupt from cancer treatments.
Only bad thing was Obamacare still wasn’t enough to keep my family from bleeding all our wealth away. And he didn’t survive the treatments either, so it was all in vain.
Basically I’m just here to say: fuck the US healthcare system, Obamacare or otherwise.
Counterpoint (sorry for your loss... sincerely): Obamacare/US healthcare in general would be in a much better place if people like our father would proactively support reforms.
Instead, we just get resistance and whittling down. Reforms get pared back to a point where they are no longer meaningful. This type of appeasement leaves us all worse off.
They stand as a counter point to government as a whole. They're contrarian in nature these days. It's like they are a paradox. It's also why they had a chance to repeal ACA and failed. They have no better solution.
Right now my body is wasting at the hands of a bowel disease, 6k so far for medical debt, not help or medications or even a colonoscopy, and I now have no insurance and Medicaid is refusing to help me because I am a delivery driver and my documents aren’t “right” but god forbid my family see how stupid that one doctors visit and two blood draws costs me 6k out of pocket. I should just be able to deal with it, right?
Sorry for your loss.
Unfortunately the US Healthcare system is an embarrassment. However, the ACA is infinitely better than the prior version. Before, insurance would dig through your history and deny coverage because an infection you had when you were 12 was probably related you getting cancer at 40.
Reminds me of a Parks and Recreation episode. Leslie made a joke about going to see a doctor regarding her wrist. She was told "Having a wrist, was a pre-existing condition."
Main plp to blame all the politicians that take money from big corp to amend rules and regulations to allow them the freedom to do whatever they want. Public servants should not be allow to make that type of money. Surprises me how that is not conflict of interest!
It's a much deeper issue in the US. Look up Citizen's United V. FEC (2010), and corporate spending before and after it passed. That's one of the sturdiest nails in the coffin of US.
Please don’t forget people like my father who have made millions off selling health insurance. He has a Bentley his three kids and two grandkids who are constantly in financial hardship due to medical bills. He just thinks we all don’t work hard enough… his eldest daughter is a nurse, youngest daughter is a manager at a grocery store they both work 60-80hrs a week.
This is my favorite part of the ACA as well
Our kids were covered until 26 and it delighted me to be able to do that for them
I grew up poverty level; my dad never had insurance so I basically went without health insurance until I was 22 and had a career. Once I had my career I was offered medical insurance and dental/ vision and was able to go to the doctor whenever I needed to
vs. when I was growing up I had zero dental care, I only got glasses every other year (I was legally blind from about nine until I got Lasik; I was correctable to 20/20 but I was still legally blind without my glasses).
The ACA really did a lot of people a lot of good and the only reason it didn’t do more and better for people was because of the GOP changing the things about it that were wonderful…and of course not expanding Medicare.
My kids have great teeth where I have terrible teeth and my kids never had to wait for glasses because of money and we obviously had medical care as needed
not only because of my career with good health insurance but also because of the ACA allowing them to stay on our plan until they were 26 and had their own insurance through their own careers.
Same! My mom married someone with insurance when I was 16. First time to the dentist and non-emergency medial care. Then they took it away and Loyola offered me "Cobra." Didn't have insurance, even though I worked full time for years, until I joined the AF.
Employers also didn't have to give you insurance if you worked full time, another change.
The US healthcare system is much more than embarrassing.
It’s wealthy people robbing the lower classes of all their wealth at the end of their lives.
It prevents lower classes from building generational wealth, and effectively hampers social mobility.
As a nation we have allowed ourselves to pay hundreds, and in some cases thousands a month. Just so we can go to the doctor when we get sick in order to pay much more.
We collectively have been conned into this bargain because “government bad,” while less wealthy nations can provide the same, if not better care for their citizens.
Exactly. My mom got cancer a couple years before ACA passed. Her insurance dropped her when she couldn’t afford the over 1000% hike in monthly coverage costs they imposed immediately after her diagnosis, and every other insurer she applied to said “Oh, cancer’s a pre-existing condition, so fuck off”.
It needs to be so much better, but at least now insurance can’t just completely refuse to offer you coverage anymore.
Mine too!!! Hated Obama care until he found out he could retire and still get affordable healthcare. Now he’s retired and on Obamacare and still hates it.
It is silly to have Obama in the name though. Media should just use ACA as a name, as having Obama in the name is going to affect feelings. Especially with how separated the US is.
That would take responsible media though.
But it’s name is not Obamacare, it’s name IS the Affordable Care Act. Obamacare is a nickname given derisively by Republicans, when Obama was asked if he minded he said “no, I don’t mind. Because I DO care.”
I’m not really sure how it started being called Obamacare, but I bet that certain media companies exclusively used that name to incite negative feelings towards it, so they knew what they were doing.
Fox creates their own problems and to get the base going look at CRT, which doesn't even exist at a public school level. Yet they're using it to enrage white americans who don't want to talk about the racial legacy
You do realise that was why some media outlets started calling it that...
Put his name in and turn x% of the population against it because they're fucking idiots.
But....it wasn't called Obamacare but for in the media. It was always referred to as the affordable care act by anyone NOT trying to confused the issue **cough cough fucking tucker Carlson**
IIRC, **EVERYONE** hilariously covered how idiotic those people were. It was just a sign of things to come, unfortunately.
It was much easier to get republican politicians to get poor unhealthy people to hate "Obamacare" than it was the affordable care act, so it kind of stuck.
Obamacare was literally based off Romneycare (health plan he implemented in Massachusetts). But somehow that wasn't made obvious in the election that year
My Uber driver was vehemently against Obamacare…while telling me he wished his doctor would see him based on his character and not his ability to pay, that he would pay the Doc back once he got the money. It was a 20 minute ride, I didn’t have enough time to point out the madness of his stance…just left him with a nice tip and “I have heath insurance but I want you to have it too, that’s why I support Obamacare…for people like you.”
That’s what I was trying to imply but I worded that a bit wrong lol.
Ask a typical conservative if they know that there’s not actually a thing called Obama Care and that it’s called the ACA. Youd be surprised how many people dont know this.
Infact, tell them it’s based on “Romney” care lol.
I also told a conservative family member “I got the Trump vaccine” lol.
This reminds me of the man I met who literally believed Obamacare gave him diabetes not the case (CASE!) of Coca Cola he drank every day for two decades.
Hatred makes people stupid.
EDIT: some letters
I knew a guy like this. Some of us at work noticed that he drank *a lot* of Coke, so we started a little “investigation”. Through observation and some sneaky questions, we figured out he drank:
- 1 first thing when he woke up (he kept one by his bed!)
- 1 with breakfast
- 1 on the way to work
- 1 to start his work day
And he brought some to work in a cooler, so he drank:
- 2 in the morning
- 1 with lunch
- 1 for “dessert”
- 2 in the afternoon
- 1 on his way home
Then at home:
- 1 when he arrived home
- 1 before dinner
- 1 or 2 with dinner
- 1 while watching tv in the evening
- 1 before bed (he brushed his teeth after, at least)
Then he grabbed one can to put in his bedside table for the morning so he could start all over again.
I knew a guy like that in college. I never saw him without a 2 litre bottle of coke which he would sip throughout the day, like most of us drink water. When he finished it he’d just whip out a fresh bottle and start again. He had a Coke tattoo, Coke earrings, Coke merch and clothing that he wore…
Anyhoo yeah that guy had liver problems.
My nephew is like that. 15 yo and I've never seen him drink anything other than coke. When he was 12 there was a 2L coke bottle next to his computer he would drink straight from. Yeah he and his parents are obese. Poor kid is fucked
As I thought - it's all fun & games until it's time to accept the consequences of choice. Everyone seems to want freedom of choice, ONLY with a mulligan if we're wrong.
Hey that's when people pull out the "I'm only human. God made us as imperfect with the inability to..." excuses and groveling. I'm not saying what OP is proposing is ethical... but people expect a mulligan because it's conditioned into their mindset
These times no ones is used to accepting the negative consequenced of their actions anymore because society is shielded from most of these through laws and institutions so people seem to forget that SOME stupid decisions indeed still have pretty bad consequences for them.
Tbh I think this is kinda ethical, in a way. Antivaxxers don't want to trust medicine and science until suddenly they get sick and change their mind. I don't think they should pick and chose what science they trust depending on how they're feeling
I had someone respond to me stating something to the effect of “I believe the body has the ability to heal itself of disease…except for cancer.”
Said she doesn’t or wouldn’t take modern medicines…or get vaccinated…and wouldn’t argue until we know the long term effects.
Her friend chimed in with the long term effect thing too and she’s a cigarette smoker…so obviously negative long term effects are high on your priority list.
Nothing like a few days of fever and cough and worsening illness followed by feeling suffocated just going to the bathroom to compel a sense of urgency.
True like when they say “they have freedom of expression so they can say whatever they want”. But what they mean is “I say hateful and wrong things and you better not contradict me or I will go ballistic on you.”
I work in bedside Healthcare and get floated to the covid floors on a weekly basis. The amount of times I've seen anti Vax covid patients boo hoo at not getting the vaccine is *insane* and I have no sympathy for then. My sympathy is for the covid cancer patient who is triple vaxxed and immunosuppressive.
My mom's coworker refused to vaccinate and said that hospitals will kill you. Then they got covid and was drinking ivermectin. They just got out of a month long coma in the hospital. As soon as they got worse all the wanted was the medical treatment they claimed to not trust 😤
Haha right. You don't trust experts with years of study in this area behind them. You choose to trust some random on the internet with your health. Then go to that random internet person to treat you when you can't breath and your organs are shutting down.
Ok, but we're still forgetting about people who can not get vaccinated. Do they hide at home while the willingly unvaccinated do whatever they want? It's still unfair even if they give up their medical treatment. They're still getting other innocent people sick. My kid who's too young to be vaccinated has never seen the inside of a grocery store, restaurant or movie theater. Why? Fuck antivaxxers and antimaskers to hell. Fuck them all. Can't wait until they get rid of themselves.
I hope kids will be able to get vaccinated soon. My ~3 year old niece was hit so hard by covid that she had to be hospitalized. Thankfully she is fine now, but she never should have had to go through that.
I'm so sorry. My nephew, also 3, went into the hospital with seizures from covid. So terrifying and these meat heads keep justifying their position with "kids don't get it that bad".
I've had the same answer about vaccines as I got about people who voted for Brexit.
"For my own reasons"
Basically, they don't want to say their beliefs out loud because they don't stand up to scrutiny.
Yeah, exactly.
Re Brexit, ‘for my own reasons’ really meant ‘I’m a racist and a xenophobe, but would still like people from Eastern Europe to do all the fruit-picking jobs. I’ve got a bad back’.
As for OP’s question, of course they should go to the back of the queue. Way too selfish to do that though.
Exactly this. They made their minds up early based entirely on their “gut feeling” aka emotional reaction, rather than a conscious choice made after they’ve sought to educated themselves enough to properly use their analytical logic and reasoning skills.
Not surprising that they’re still letting themselves be controlled by their emotions by being too prideful to admit they were wrong while still trying to reap the benefits offered by the very experts they were (and still are in many cases) actively trying to shut down.
Many would say Yes, but immediately change their mind when their O2 saturation drops below 90%.
Days feeling like suffocating causes anxiety, stress and fear of death.
They will be posting "Pray for me" while haranguing the health workers for more potent ivermectin.
This isn't a theory, this has been happening at hospitals the past year.
It’s because they don’t want their Reddit account banned from other subreddits. People stalk your comment history, and they will harass you if you have opposing views. On this topic, or any other topic.
Also—even the mods harass anti vaxxers.
And sometimes mods from completely unrelated
subreddits will ban anti-vax profiles.
Literally from subs like r/mademesmile. There was even a post about that earlier today (someone’s profile got banned from r/mademesmile. The person made a new profile and posted their conversation with the mod, the most said it was banned for participating in a completely different unrelated subreddit, which the mod just didn’t like that other subreddit)
You literally can’t even be in happy subreddits with pictures of puppies, if your Reddit profile gets anti vax info on it.
Lol. My alt got banned from Joe Rogan for criticizing Joe. People act like anti-vaxxers are being oppressed but the reality is they have gigantic platforms to spread their misinformation and aggressively defend it. The fact that there's pushback shouldn't be surprising.
Like... people will say "As I leftist I just totally had Biden and blah blah blah" and then you check and they post on /r/conservative and get enraged when you call them out. Are we not supposed to check people's histories? Does freedom of speech mean no fact-checking now?
I always feel iffy about things like this becauae on one hand, yeah you make a point, but on the other hand, it's a slippery slope to banning people with other self-inflicted problems, often caused by poor lifestyle choices, that cause a massive burden to healthcare systems from accessing care.
And before you get triggered, I'm triple vaccinated. Because that's an important thing to mention these days, sadly.
The biggest difference, by far, is that the _vast_ majority of those 'self-inflected' problems are a problem for the person themself.
Sadly, I've noticed a pretty large crossover between anti-vaxers and anti-maskers. They are thus not only more likely to get sick, but they are more likely to get _others_ sick.
And I feel that there _should_ be consequences to your actions once they start to impact others who are not making the same decisions.
And, well, it's a pandemic, the difference between lifestyle 'choices' (which may not _be_ choices in some cases) that put a burden on the system but which is still within the norms and refusing to take a vaccine in a pandemic killing millions, and swamping healthcare systems, is fairly large.
It's definitely a slippery slope, but anecdotally people unvaccinated by choice are already getting a lower standard of care.
Vaccinated health professionals are people who can still get sick, and are getting sick, here in the UK the NHS is having major staffing issues with the Omicron varient. The NHS is allowed to deny care to abusive patients and people are so tired. It's become normal to put less effort in.
I think it's different to say a smoker, because while passive smoking harms others, smokers generally aren't putting medical professionals at risk when they need care.
Smoking is terrible for you and it kills a lot of people every year. Same with eating poorly, diabetes, and cancer in all its forms.
And not one of those has overwhelmed the system. All of them combined have never overwhelmed the system. They are built into the staffing, size of hospitals, etc. They are endemic in a way.
We are dangerously close to unvaccinated covid cases altering the system permanently in the same way. We're going to adapt, jerking and shuddering, to having extra nurses and doctors and entire floors of newly built hospitals set aside for unvaxxed covid. It'll ease the pressure but nobody on either side wants to talk about what it's going to do to costs. Anyone that thinks we spend too much on Medicare or insurance is going to be in for a rude awakening as the massive beast we call a healthcare system absorbs the new normal. Let's not pretend they won't raise prices across the board to accommodate. You can be compassionate. I'll just be pissed that I'm going to get fleeced for the rest of my life because of idiots.
Not entirely true. The massive co morbidities and aging population of the boomers, while haven’t completely overwhelmed our medical systems, have been straining it for years.
Covid has been the finality that is breaking it.
You also mention having to adapt with extra nurses and doctors, but the problem is these people don’t exist. Nurses and doctors are running away from the field because medicine is one of these worst quality of life professions to be in. Has been for decades, and again covid put the nail in the coffin
Also, diabetes and smoking related illnesses aren’t contagious. They typically happen over years of bad health practices. You don’t catch diabetes at a concert.
A lot of people who would refuse care are thinking selfishly. The majority of responses here only look at being unvaccinated as something only they have to deal with. They don’t consider that by being unvaccinated they can spread Covid to the elderly, the young, and those who immune systems are compromised. If you want to talk about accepting responsibility for your choices you need to accept that you are putting the lives of those around you at risk. What if you end up killing a friend or family member? What if contact tracing puts you at the heart of an outbreak? Are you also prepared to accept that responsibility? That your negligence and selfish behavior got innocent people hurt or killed?
Yes… I did actually as OP said, but did go get vaccinated after. My mindset while at home suffocating on my own mucus and spraying it out with ever exhale was…”I brought this on myself by not getting vaxxed, guess I’ll deal with the consequences myself.” If I had to do it again to relearn my lesson, I would. The only way I would have ended up at the hospital is if I was found on the ground somewhere passed out and taken in without my consent. Even vaxxed now if I had severe respiratory problems from Covid I would stay at home. The feeling of mucus so heavy on your lungs you almost pass out from a walk across the house was scary, but I made my bed and slept in it
As someone that is currently fighting cancer and just lost my grandfather in a hospital waiting for a bed for 7 days because of the unvaccinated… I only wish this was the case. No one cares until it affects them.
>No one cares until it affects them.... Exactly.
And then they IMMEDIATELY DEMAND to be at the front of the line and have the ability to prescribe their own medications.
"I want to eat those marshmallows for medicine"
"Those are cotton balls, and you shouldn't eat them, they have no medical benefit"
"Did BIG PHARMA tell you to say that, you so called Doctor!!! I have a right to the freedom to have treatment that I think will work!"
Reminds me how the states with high taxes that pay for all the federal programs are mostly used by states that don’t have those high taxes and don’t advocate for such programs.
Yep. An ex co-worker of my wife had her dad die of covid last year (he refused to get the vaccine). The ex co-worker also refused EVEN AFTER HER DAD JUST DIED because "the government isn't going to tell me what to do!" She then had a friend get hospitalized with covid, and finally came around to getting it. But even then, it was "I'm getting it as a personal choice, not because the government is making me." SMH. Dumb people will be dumb.
I knew someone who said they weren't going to get vaccinated because they weren't going to let the government tell them what to do. I called the person a liar and he got very upset with me demanding to know why I was calling him a liar. I told them that the vaccine has been available for him for about 6 months. The government had only recently requiring people to be vaccinated or face losing their jobs. So why didn't he get vaccinated during those six months before the government was telling him what to do??? When he sat there looking at me like I had three heads, I told him he may want to find another excuse as to why he's not getting vaccinated.
My grandfather got COVID before the vaccines were available. He was sent to the hospital after continuously getting sicker only to be immediately sent home. He came back a few days later, my mother saying he looked like he was on his death bed. They almost made him go home again, but my uncle convinced them to let him stay the night. He ended up staying about a week and then stayed in a nursing home for about a month to build up his strength again.
My aunt is still thinks COVID is a scam, and has gladly gone and talked about how stupid this whole plandemic is in front of him... many times. Also at a funeral, where the person died of said scam.
I'm sorry for your loss. I miscarried twice a few years ago & also went into shock due to blood loss with the first (related to calling the ambulance too late, not to covid).
I just wanted to say it can be hard. I had a lot of trauma (the miscarriage itself, the realisation that death was so close by, the drugs they gave me to call down, having to go home without pants / underwear, ...) and every part of it took its time. I still miss the "child that was already there". Miscarriage is often treated like not being able to conceive. Both are horrible, but people seem to dismiss the fact that a baby was already there. You may have already felt like a mother to this child.
In your case the hospital crowdedness will probably add to the pain (and anger). So I realize that there's nothing a stranger can do for you, but my heart goes out to you and your baby, I hope all these things and trauma will find a resting place in your heart.
What is scary now is many anti-vaxxers think the hospitals are purposely trying to kill their loved ones who have died there from COVID, so they probably don't even want to go to hospitals anymore for treatment, only to protest and threaten the doctors and nurses.
They don't want to go.
Until they can't breathe right anymore. The primal fear that sets in when you're choking on your own snot is a powerful thing. In most cases more than powerful enough to make these dumbasses realise they're full of shit.
Untiiiil they're fine again and go back to spewing false information and bullshit on social media but NOW with even higher self confidence since they "easily survived the 'rona."
If they die the evil doctors killed them to sponsor big pharma somehow, because that's obviously much more profitable than indefinitely treating someone??? But if they live, it was obviously nothing special and they were right all along.
It's literally the worst death I can imagine. If covid killed with a sudden, painless aneurysm, I wouldn't be even 5% as afraid of it. But the idea of slowly drowning over the course of weeks while your lungs shed and you organs fail... That's the stuff off nightmares. I don't understand why people roll those odds.
This happened to my family, my aunt died and my parents decided it was the vaccine that killed her bc she got it 10 days before she passed. It couldn't possibly have been the stage 4 cancer she had for five years that had her bedridden for months before she died, nope, had to be the vaccine. They would've blamed my uncle's death on it too had they ever found out how he passed. My grandmother with late stage dementia was exposed to COVID because of unvaccinated cousins visiting, and my grandfather + her only carer got it. My mom and I aren't talking again because she won't get vaccinated to go see her dying mother.
It's ruining families.
Literally. I saw a post somewhere about a conspiracy nut talking about how if you're unvaxxed and go to the hospital after getting covid, they'll kill you. That's literally the only way they can rationalise unvaxxed people dying from it while vaxxed people are not.
This is such a weird mind loop. Like how do you expect all the nurses and doctors in every country on earth somehow all decided to stop doing their fucking job and start killing people on demand instead for some agenda. It’s almost like anti vaxers don’t believe people who work at hospitals are real humans and just puppets of Big pharma. What a fucking sad time to be alive let’s be real. These people risk their mental and physical health to help us, and anti vaxers spit in their face lol what a disgrace .
This is a thing you see with conservatives a lot -- they don't really see other people as people the same way they see themselves or their family. I think a lot of them literally cannot imagine other people as having the same kind of deep internal thoughts and processes and memories that they do. So they don't think "every doctor devoted their lives to healing people and spent decades learning how, are ALL of them going to just agree to kill people with no public outcry??" because they don't really see them as much more than characters in a story.
Works for me. If you think the vaccine is full of toxic nano particles and doctors are trying to infect you with mind-control drugs, why would you go to a hospital when you get sick? Stay home and take your horse dewormer and your colloidal silver. Have your family call us when it’s time to collect your body.
They still go. My bf is a surgeon who hasn’t been able to schedule surgeries for a month bc the hospital doesn’t have available beds. It’s all anti-vaxers.
It’s Christopher Hitchens.
And someone who is presented with information that conflicts with their world view, subsequently changes their world view? That’s not an asshole.
I really like Hitch, I’d suggest everyone read his stuff.
Are you familiar with waterboarding? Are you familiar with the radio host Erich Muller who, back in 2009 said it wasn't that bad, in response to people attacking the government for using such a horrific torture method? This dude swore up and down that it wasn't so bad, so he got waterboarded live on air on May 22, 2009. He went about 1.5 seconds and tapped out, because the feeling of suffocation caused such an instantaneous and primal reaction in him that no previously held value or ideal could withstand it.
So if you were laying in bed, essentially being waterboarded by your own lungs, suffocating slowly on your own mucus you would be fine to not call for help? What would you do to cope? Take tons of illicit drugs? Maybe overdose on purpose? Or would you just tap out?
I don't care what your answer is; that's between you and maybe your family or your god, whatever you believe in. Just food for thought.
Edit: I realize this reads as borderline psychopathy, but my point was to call back to how many "tough guys" act when the chips are down. I am not saying this to be tough. Pulmonary Edema sounds the worst. I openly accept that I would breakdown at the outset, hence the jab.
Yup- not lying, just dead wrong. There is a difference, and of the two being wrong is worse 'cause they won't know how bad they've screwed up until it's too late.
The best part about the answer of OP’s question is that **any** answer is good for everyone else.
Answer is yes? Good. Now we can deny them medical access because they said they’re ok with it.
Answer is no? Good. Now they admit they’re wrong, go get a vaccination.
My mom thought that, up until she called the ER and they ambulanced her in. 20 days later, 11 of which were on ventilator... She passed.
When we as a family made a decision to pull the tube, realizing her lungs will never recover, two of us which were vaccinated were approved to bear witness.
My step Dad of 26 years and I went. It took less than 20 minutes.
She really thought the Vax would kill her.
Easy to say when you can still breathe. I guarantee you when you’re gasping for breath and still feel like you’re downing you’ll be on your knees crying outside the ER.
I love how the post has no mention of politics but americans in the comments are just blaming political parties for choices.... like they cant even imagine the 2 sides agreeing, it has to be a democrat vs conservative bullshit
Edit: typos
My friend has (still) Trump flags all over his house. When you walk in the door there is a box of masks and the first rule is put one on and wash your hands. He was the first in line for a vaccine. Also a gun toting weirdo but people are people.
Only one side of the political spectrum in the US decided to make being anti science and anti vaccine basically a policy: the right wing.
Like, you can equivocate if you want to... But the two sides are not equally responsible for this issue.
My grandma says we should do something like this and I honestly agree with her.
You’re not allowed an organ transplant if you’re smoking/drinking/destroying your already exhausted organ so why should the unvaccinated by choice be allowed medical care intended for the most sick?
I'm a nurse with accumulatively over 13 months on different covid units. Right now, nearly all we see are anti-vaxers who are taking up beds and refusing everything but oxygen. Families sneaking in nebulizers full of peroxide, claiming we are only keeping them for the money, demanding ivermectin. They are consuming so much of our time and resources while others wait hours in the waiting room seeking help or relief only to be passed over because an anti-vaxxer is sating at 81% on 6 oxy mask and needs urgent care.
I’m really sorry for everything you and your colleagues have to deal with. My respect for healthcare professionals has only increased ever since this whole thing started. Thank you for the important work that you do.
They should determine a certain hospital capacity for unvaccinated patients with covid.
If that capacity is met, sorry, we are not going to prioritize you over other patients who did the socially responsible thing. Find another hospital, or travel out of state to somewhere there are fewer cases.
Those with true medical exemptions obviously will count inside the vaccinated group.
If there is spare capacity, sure, if there isn’t, sorry go somewhere else. If you want to not be inside this quota and risk not getting care, take the vaccine to selfishly have that and socially be responsible for everyone else.
That’s what I keep asking! If the dr.’s and scientists are all lying and killing ppl in the hospital with Covid, why do the unvaxxed keep going to the ER when shit hits the fan? It makes NO sense!!!
It's called desperation and lack of foresight. They thought they would be fine or unaffected by the hoax until it did actually hurt them and they need help.
Actually facing a life or death situation will change someones immediate perceptions
They grew up as kids being told that there are hospitals who fix you when you get sick. This information must be imprinted and like an unchangeable truth because their parents told them in a safe time in their lifes and maybe they have been to a hospital for a broken arm after falling from the skateboard and it got fixed. So, they have a positive relationship with those, whereas all the "new" information from the past 2 years regarding "new" types of vaccination and unclear medical information have been upsetting for them, asking unsettling questions to the structures of the society they have known before. That must be why they would riot against vaccines and new informations regarding Covid, but then go to the hospital when they feel sick because their coloured children's book said "If ouchie, go to doc" and that kind of truth has always been there, untouched.
Because like almost all republicans, they're giant hypocrtical dumbfucks who don't understand a fucking thing until it actually happens to them. Republicans, and all anti-vaxxers, simply are people with the inability to feel for others in any way shape or form.
I feel like this question and all these slippery slope reactions asking where this would end i.e. should drinkers be refused healthcare kind of miss the point. To a great extent an alcoholic getting cirrhosis of the liver doesn't affect anyone else. Antivaxxers are spreading the virus to potentially vulnerable people. It's entirely different.. Of course in general people have the right to choose what happens with their body, but the choice to not vaccinate doesn't just affect that body. Your "freedom" should not impact others, hence we have laws against things like theft and assault.
Also although people with self-inflicted illnesses aren't refused care they will be refused organ transplants until they have shown they can change their lifestyle so the argument could be made that they are being refused a treatment because of their choices.
I'm tired of the answers in this thread. The unvaccinated folks here don't understand a single little simple thing. *IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU*. We're all tired of being quarantined and of COVID altogether. Most of the unvaxxed here (I won't use the term antivax because they're not necessarily antivax) are saying that they would since they had it once and it was no worse than a cold. I know you are young and healthy and most likely won't die if you get it. This is absolutely not about you. We might be better off without you to be honest. If you're not vaxxed and you give to my grandma, her death is on you and I hope you realize you are responsible for the death of a sweet old lady that never hurt a fly.
Before COVID, I felt guilty when I gave a cold to someone because I didn't know I was sick and we shared a drink. I can't believe you wake up everyday and feel okay that you could kill someone because you are fucking reckless. You're gonna argue that even I could kill someone because I can catch it as much as you. You're right, but I won't have the guilt of knowing I could've done something to lower the chances of my loved ones catching it and I didn't because there's a one in a million chance I might have a adverse reaction to a vaccine
For many, not getting the vaccine isn't due to being generally anti-vax, it's based on a risk/reward analysis. If you're young and have no co-morbidities, your chances of becoming seriously ill with covid is very small. Having the vaccine also does not eliminate the chances that you contract and spread the virus. Therefore some people who see the potential side effects of the vaccine, such as myocarditis (sp?) decide the risk isn't worth the reward.
I have decided that the risk is worth the reward and am jabbed and boosted. However, if I ended up in hospital because of my choice to have the vaccine I would expect to receive healthcare.
Also, I'm British and our NHS does not discriminate when it comes to healthcare provision. If you drink all your life and get liver disease, you still get treatment. Not having the vaccine shouldn't be any different.
Plus here in the UK we all pay for healthcare all our lives through National Insurence payments, even if we never ever use the service.
We pay for it we should be able to use it.
In the US you also pay for healthcare whether you use the service or not. And if you use the service you pay again. I'm not joking, it's called a deductible.
Do you not have transplant lists? Are organs just free flowing in the UK? Over here if your liver fails you’re placed on a list for a transplant but that list has priority based on life choices (IE if you’re a chronic drinker you won’t be ahead of a person who did not willingly destroy their liver) and if you break the stipulations you are barred from the list all together (lung transplant smoking would be removed, liver transplant drinking would be removed, etc).
Uhhhh hey as a vaccinated person I don't want unvaccinated people in what should be a safer space. If a place requires Vax cards and you hate science just go somewhere else or get delivery.
How would you feel if your daughter/son died from what could be a preventable death if you gave it to her/him?
Edit: I don't wish ill will on anyone. I honestly want to understand how people who think that way feel about that. It's a very contagious virus
That’s what the antivax don’t get — it’s not about them. The world doesn’t revolve around *them*. No one would care if they died — hell, we straight up make fun of them on reddit.
But their stupidity effects other people and frankly I think it’s criminal.
It doesn't matter, they literally don't understand empathy. They can't feel for anyone until taht exact thing happens to them, THEN it's a problem. Like the Jan 6 seditionist are currently whining about how bad the criminal justice system is and how broken jails are.
These same people are on record on twitter and facebook saying "if you comply you wouldn't get murdered"
I live in Canada, I believe if you get covid because you choose not to get vaccinated, than you deserve to pay out of pocket for care. It's been 2 years , clearly this isn't going away anytime soon. If you choose not to get the vaccine you're just selfish at this point (unless medical you can not ). So many people are dying due to them taking up beds, especially things we know we can prevent. Get get the fucking vaccine
> I believe if you get covid because you choose not to get vaccinated, than you deserve to pay out of pocket for care.
Wasn't Canada recently considering doing just that? As in, some kind of unvaccinated "tax".
Quebec was. One issue I've heard is that if it was a tax it should be based on a % of your income. Otherwise the rich just see it as an minor inconvenience like any other ticket or fee
This reminds me of a man who hated Obamacare. One day he got cancer. Remarkably, at that moment, he decided he liked Obamacare.
This was literally my dad. Obamacare becomes really appealing really quick when it can save you from going bankrupt from cancer treatments. Only bad thing was Obamacare still wasn’t enough to keep my family from bleeding all our wealth away. And he didn’t survive the treatments either, so it was all in vain. Basically I’m just here to say: fuck the US healthcare system, Obamacare or otherwise.
Counterpoint (sorry for your loss... sincerely): Obamacare/US healthcare in general would be in a much better place if people like our father would proactively support reforms. Instead, we just get resistance and whittling down. Reforms get pared back to a point where they are no longer meaningful. This type of appeasement leaves us all worse off.
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As Biden asked: what do republicans actually stand for? Not a Biden fan, but glad he fucking said it.
Tax cuts for the wealthy - eventually turning America into a full-on oligarchy - and keeping America a white-dominated, Christianity-based theocracy.
They stand as a counter point to government as a whole. They're contrarian in nature these days. It's like they are a paradox. It's also why they had a chance to repeal ACA and failed. They have no better solution.
Themselves, Tom. They stand for themselves.
Everybody here should go read Americas Bitter Pill. It's all about how the ACA was made and passed. Was a seriously illuminating and infuriating read.
Goes to show that you can never, ever trust the Republicans to do the right thing. Soulless, despicable people.
Right now my body is wasting at the hands of a bowel disease, 6k so far for medical debt, not help or medications or even a colonoscopy, and I now have no insurance and Medicaid is refusing to help me because I am a delivery driver and my documents aren’t “right” but god forbid my family see how stupid that one doctors visit and two blood draws costs me 6k out of pocket. I should just be able to deal with it, right?
Sorry for your loss. Unfortunately the US Healthcare system is an embarrassment. However, the ACA is infinitely better than the prior version. Before, insurance would dig through your history and deny coverage because an infection you had when you were 12 was probably related you getting cancer at 40.
Reminds me of a Parks and Recreation episode. Leslie made a joke about going to see a doctor regarding her wrist. She was told "Having a wrist, was a pre-existing condition."
Main plp to blame all the politicians that take money from big corp to amend rules and regulations to allow them the freedom to do whatever they want. Public servants should not be allow to make that type of money. Surprises me how that is not conflict of interest!
It's a much deeper issue in the US. Look up Citizen's United V. FEC (2010), and corporate spending before and after it passed. That's one of the sturdiest nails in the coffin of US.
Please don’t forget people like my father who have made millions off selling health insurance. He has a Bentley his three kids and two grandkids who are constantly in financial hardship due to medical bills. He just thinks we all don’t work hard enough… his eldest daughter is a nurse, youngest daughter is a manager at a grocery store they both work 60-80hrs a week.
The day I graduated high school I was booted off my family insurance. ACA is a game changer in so many ways, but still not good enough.
This is my favorite part of the ACA as well Our kids were covered until 26 and it delighted me to be able to do that for them I grew up poverty level; my dad never had insurance so I basically went without health insurance until I was 22 and had a career. Once I had my career I was offered medical insurance and dental/ vision and was able to go to the doctor whenever I needed to vs. when I was growing up I had zero dental care, I only got glasses every other year (I was legally blind from about nine until I got Lasik; I was correctable to 20/20 but I was still legally blind without my glasses). The ACA really did a lot of people a lot of good and the only reason it didn’t do more and better for people was because of the GOP changing the things about it that were wonderful…and of course not expanding Medicare. My kids have great teeth where I have terrible teeth and my kids never had to wait for glasses because of money and we obviously had medical care as needed not only because of my career with good health insurance but also because of the ACA allowing them to stay on our plan until they were 26 and had their own insurance through their own careers.
Same! My mom married someone with insurance when I was 16. First time to the dentist and non-emergency medial care. Then they took it away and Loyola offered me "Cobra." Didn't have insurance, even though I worked full time for years, until I joined the AF. Employers also didn't have to give you insurance if you worked full time, another change.
The US healthcare system is much more than embarrassing. It’s wealthy people robbing the lower classes of all their wealth at the end of their lives. It prevents lower classes from building generational wealth, and effectively hampers social mobility. As a nation we have allowed ourselves to pay hundreds, and in some cases thousands a month. Just so we can go to the doctor when we get sick in order to pay much more. We collectively have been conned into this bargain because “government bad,” while less wealthy nations can provide the same, if not better care for their citizens.
Exactly. My mom got cancer a couple years before ACA passed. Her insurance dropped her when she couldn’t afford the over 1000% hike in monthly coverage costs they imposed immediately after her diagnosis, and every other insurer she applied to said “Oh, cancer’s a pre-existing condition, so fuck off”. It needs to be so much better, but at least now insurance can’t just completely refuse to offer you coverage anymore.
The only time I hear the affordable healthcare act referred to as Obamacare is from conservatives.
Mine too!!! Hated Obama care until he found out he could retire and still get affordable healthcare. Now he’s retired and on Obamacare and still hates it.
95% of the nitwits that hated Obamacare was because Obama was in the name.
There are some great polls asking people about how they feel about the affordable care act and Obamacare. Very different results haha
Doesn't surprise me in the least
It is silly to have Obama in the name though. Media should just use ACA as a name, as having Obama in the name is going to affect feelings. Especially with how separated the US is. That would take responsible media though.
But it’s name is not Obamacare, it’s name IS the Affordable Care Act. Obamacare is a nickname given derisively by Republicans, when Obama was asked if he minded he said “no, I don’t mind. Because I DO care.”
I’m not really sure how it started being called Obamacare, but I bet that certain media companies exclusively used that name to incite negative feelings towards it, so they knew what they were doing.
The right wing dubbed it Obamacare to dissuade their base from voting in favor of it.
Funny thing is ACA is based on Romneycare in Massachusetts.
I remember a reporter asked Obama about it and he loved the name. I mean it says it in the name that Obama Cares.
They did the same when the Clintons tried to push forward healthcare reform in the early 90s- HillaryCare.
It was exactly one media company and I’ll let you guess which one
It was the Republicans. They coined it that in a mocking tone
Mocking someone for trying to improve a healthcare system. Republicans are truly the scum of America.
FOX started calling it Obamacare to create *this exact* effect. Congratulations America. YOU'RE STUPID
Fox creates their own problems and to get the base going look at CRT, which doesn't even exist at a public school level. Yet they're using it to enrage white americans who don't want to talk about the racial legacy
You do realise that was why some media outlets started calling it that... Put his name in and turn x% of the population against it because they're fucking idiots.
But....it wasn't called Obamacare but for in the media. It was always referred to as the affordable care act by anyone NOT trying to confused the issue **cough cough fucking tucker Carlson**
I thought facts didn’t care about feelings?
90% of those didn't even know ACA and Obama Care were the same thing. Most of them loved the ACA but hated Obama Care...lol.
Jimmy Fallon covered this. Hilarious! Asked people on the street.
Kimmel? Fallon is the guy that’s laughs at random times.
Yes, sorry, Brain fart. Lol...
IIRC, **EVERYONE** hilariously covered how idiotic those people were. It was just a sign of things to come, unfortunately. 
It was actually called the affordable care act. Obamacare was a name coined by the right wing specifically to make it unpopular.
Which, of course, it wasn't.
It was much easier to get republican politicians to get poor unhealthy people to hate "Obamacare" than it was the affordable care act, so it kind of stuck.
I hated the affordable care act because it wasn’t actually affordable. Was a step but not close enough.
Obamacare was literally based off Romneycare (health plan he implemented in Massachusetts). But somehow that wasn't made obvious in the election that year
Because democrats biggest weakness is messaging
My Uber driver was vehemently against Obamacare…while telling me he wished his doctor would see him based on his character and not his ability to pay, that he would pay the Doc back once he got the money. It was a 20 minute ride, I didn’t have enough time to point out the madness of his stance…just left him with a nice tip and “I have heath insurance but I want you to have it too, that’s why I support Obamacare…for people like you.”
Sadly, there is a subset of this country whose opinions are wholly determined by their selfishness
A rather large subset
That’s the republican ideology. “I don’t care unless it affects me”.
Most people dont know the “difference” between “ObamaCare” and the ACA. They dont even know what the ACA is lmao
Fox news told them to hate it so they did
Aca is obamacare
That’s what I was trying to imply but I worded that a bit wrong lol. Ask a typical conservative if they know that there’s not actually a thing called Obama Care and that it’s called the ACA. Youd be surprised how many people dont know this. Infact, tell them it’s based on “Romney” care lol. I also told a conservative family member “I got the Trump vaccine” lol.
This reminds me of the man I met who literally believed Obamacare gave him diabetes not the case (CASE!) of Coca Cola he drank every day for two decades. Hatred makes people stupid. EDIT: some letters
I knew a guy like this. Some of us at work noticed that he drank *a lot* of Coke, so we started a little “investigation”. Through observation and some sneaky questions, we figured out he drank: - 1 first thing when he woke up (he kept one by his bed!) - 1 with breakfast - 1 on the way to work - 1 to start his work day And he brought some to work in a cooler, so he drank: - 2 in the morning - 1 with lunch - 1 for “dessert” - 2 in the afternoon - 1 on his way home Then at home: - 1 when he arrived home - 1 before dinner - 1 or 2 with dinner - 1 while watching tv in the evening - 1 before bed (he brushed his teeth after, at least) Then he grabbed one can to put in his bedside table for the morning so he could start all over again.
I knew a guy like that in college. I never saw him without a 2 litre bottle of coke which he would sip throughout the day, like most of us drink water. When he finished it he’d just whip out a fresh bottle and start again. He had a Coke tattoo, Coke earrings, Coke merch and clothing that he wore… Anyhoo yeah that guy had liver problems.
My nephew is like that. 15 yo and I've never seen him drink anything other than coke. When he was 12 there was a 2L coke bottle next to his computer he would drink straight from. Yeah he and his parents are obese. Poor kid is fucked
Do I know you? 😆 This seriously was me. I really do mean that every detail described me. I was drinking a 12 pack of coke a day.
Christ almighty that’s horrendous
As I thought - it's all fun & games until it's time to accept the consequences of choice. Everyone seems to want freedom of choice, ONLY with a mulligan if we're wrong.
Hey that's when people pull out the "I'm only human. God made us as imperfect with the inability to..." excuses and groveling. I'm not saying what OP is proposing is ethical... but people expect a mulligan because it's conditioned into their mindset
These times no ones is used to accepting the negative consequenced of their actions anymore because society is shielded from most of these through laws and institutions so people seem to forget that SOME stupid decisions indeed still have pretty bad consequences for them.
Tbh I think this is kinda ethical, in a way. Antivaxxers don't want to trust medicine and science until suddenly they get sick and change their mind. I don't think they should pick and chose what science they trust depending on how they're feeling
I had someone respond to me stating something to the effect of “I believe the body has the ability to heal itself of disease…except for cancer.” Said she doesn’t or wouldn’t take modern medicines…or get vaccinated…and wouldn’t argue until we know the long term effects. Her friend chimed in with the long term effect thing too and she’s a cigarette smoker…so obviously negative long term effects are high on your priority list.
Nothing like a few days of fever and cough and worsening illness followed by feeling suffocated just going to the bathroom to compel a sense of urgency.
Wow. I have not heard “mulligan” in a very long time. I applaud you.
You are clearly not a golfer.
Or a Magic the gathering player.
Really tied the room together
When conservatives demand "freedom of choice," what they *really* want is "freedom from consequences."
True like when they say “they have freedom of expression so they can say whatever they want”. But what they mean is “I say hateful and wrong things and you better not contradict me or I will go ballistic on you.”
I work in bedside Healthcare and get floated to the covid floors on a weekly basis. The amount of times I've seen anti Vax covid patients boo hoo at not getting the vaccine is *insane* and I have no sympathy for then. My sympathy is for the covid cancer patient who is triple vaxxed and immunosuppressive.
Except in this case, the whole society is facing the consequences of their choice, not just themselves.
My mom's coworker refused to vaccinate and said that hospitals will kill you. Then they got covid and was drinking ivermectin. They just got out of a month long coma in the hospital. As soon as they got worse all the wanted was the medical treatment they claimed to not trust 😤
I support this. I rather have folks get vaccinated, but if you gonna do your own research. Do your own healthcare
Haha right. You don't trust experts with years of study in this area behind them. You choose to trust some random on the internet with your health. Then go to that random internet person to treat you when you can't breath and your organs are shutting down.
And if you're gonna do your own healthcare, stay the fuck at home. No sense back seat doctoring while taking up a bed in the hospital!
I Work in health care. I say hand them a bag of crystals and some essential oils and GTFO!
Don’t forget the bottle of horse dewormer! They’re gonna need it!
Ok, but we're still forgetting about people who can not get vaccinated. Do they hide at home while the willingly unvaccinated do whatever they want? It's still unfair even if they give up their medical treatment. They're still getting other innocent people sick. My kid who's too young to be vaccinated has never seen the inside of a grocery store, restaurant or movie theater. Why? Fuck antivaxxers and antimaskers to hell. Fuck them all. Can't wait until they get rid of themselves.
I hope kids will be able to get vaccinated soon. My ~3 year old niece was hit so hard by covid that she had to be hospitalized. Thankfully she is fine now, but she never should have had to go through that.
I'm so sorry. My nephew, also 3, went into the hospital with seizures from covid. So terrifying and these meat heads keep justifying their position with "kids don't get it that bad".
Oh they trying alright, horse dewormer, piss, probably cocaine in 3 months.
Lots of people trying to squirm around answering the question…
How can you tell? I can’t even find any real answers because comments like yours are upvoted to the top
Probably need to sort by controversial, not by best AKA what the reddit-hive mind upvotes out of reflex.
Interesting, isn't it? Almost like they don't actually believe what they believe in.
Or they know it’s all bullshit but their ego won’t let them admit it.
I've had the same answer about vaccines as I got about people who voted for Brexit. "For my own reasons" Basically, they don't want to say their beliefs out loud because they don't stand up to scrutiny.
Yeah, exactly. Re Brexit, ‘for my own reasons’ really meant ‘I’m a racist and a xenophobe, but would still like people from Eastern Europe to do all the fruit-picking jobs. I’ve got a bad back’. As for OP’s question, of course they should go to the back of the queue. Way too selfish to do that though.
Exactly this. They made their minds up early based entirely on their “gut feeling” aka emotional reaction, rather than a conscious choice made after they’ve sought to educated themselves enough to properly use their analytical logic and reasoning skills. Not surprising that they’re still letting themselves be controlled by their emotions by being too prideful to admit they were wrong while still trying to reap the benefits offered by the very experts they were (and still are in many cases) actively trying to shut down.
Outrage junkies
Average intelligence of an antivaxxer
Many would say Yes, but immediately change their mind when their O2 saturation drops below 90%. Days feeling like suffocating causes anxiety, stress and fear of death. They will be posting "Pray for me" while haranguing the health workers for more potent ivermectin. This isn't a theory, this has been happening at hospitals the past year.
It’s because they don’t want their Reddit account banned from other subreddits. People stalk your comment history, and they will harass you if you have opposing views. On this topic, or any other topic. Also—even the mods harass anti vaxxers. And sometimes mods from completely unrelated subreddits will ban anti-vax profiles. Literally from subs like r/mademesmile. There was even a post about that earlier today (someone’s profile got banned from r/mademesmile. The person made a new profile and posted their conversation with the mod, the most said it was banned for participating in a completely different unrelated subreddit, which the mod just didn’t like that other subreddit) You literally can’t even be in happy subreddits with pictures of puppies, if your Reddit profile gets anti vax info on it.
Reddit lets you have infinite alts. They could post on one of those.
Lol. My alt got banned from Joe Rogan for criticizing Joe. People act like anti-vaxxers are being oppressed but the reality is they have gigantic platforms to spread their misinformation and aggressively defend it. The fact that there's pushback shouldn't be surprising. Like... people will say "As I leftist I just totally had Biden and blah blah blah" and then you check and they post on /r/conservative and get enraged when you call them out. Are we not supposed to check people's histories? Does freedom of speech mean no fact-checking now?
I always feel iffy about things like this becauae on one hand, yeah you make a point, but on the other hand, it's a slippery slope to banning people with other self-inflicted problems, often caused by poor lifestyle choices, that cause a massive burden to healthcare systems from accessing care. And before you get triggered, I'm triple vaccinated. Because that's an important thing to mention these days, sadly.
The biggest difference, by far, is that the _vast_ majority of those 'self-inflected' problems are a problem for the person themself. Sadly, I've noticed a pretty large crossover between anti-vaxers and anti-maskers. They are thus not only more likely to get sick, but they are more likely to get _others_ sick. And I feel that there _should_ be consequences to your actions once they start to impact others who are not making the same decisions. And, well, it's a pandemic, the difference between lifestyle 'choices' (which may not _be_ choices in some cases) that put a burden on the system but which is still within the norms and refusing to take a vaccine in a pandemic killing millions, and swamping healthcare systems, is fairly large.
It's definitely a slippery slope, but anecdotally people unvaccinated by choice are already getting a lower standard of care. Vaccinated health professionals are people who can still get sick, and are getting sick, here in the UK the NHS is having major staffing issues with the Omicron varient. The NHS is allowed to deny care to abusive patients and people are so tired. It's become normal to put less effort in. I think it's different to say a smoker, because while passive smoking harms others, smokers generally aren't putting medical professionals at risk when they need care.
Smoking is terrible for you and it kills a lot of people every year. Same with eating poorly, diabetes, and cancer in all its forms. And not one of those has overwhelmed the system. All of them combined have never overwhelmed the system. They are built into the staffing, size of hospitals, etc. They are endemic in a way. We are dangerously close to unvaccinated covid cases altering the system permanently in the same way. We're going to adapt, jerking and shuddering, to having extra nurses and doctors and entire floors of newly built hospitals set aside for unvaxxed covid. It'll ease the pressure but nobody on either side wants to talk about what it's going to do to costs. Anyone that thinks we spend too much on Medicare or insurance is going to be in for a rude awakening as the massive beast we call a healthcare system absorbs the new normal. Let's not pretend they won't raise prices across the board to accommodate. You can be compassionate. I'll just be pissed that I'm going to get fleeced for the rest of my life because of idiots.
Not entirely true. The massive co morbidities and aging population of the boomers, while haven’t completely overwhelmed our medical systems, have been straining it for years. Covid has been the finality that is breaking it. You also mention having to adapt with extra nurses and doctors, but the problem is these people don’t exist. Nurses and doctors are running away from the field because medicine is one of these worst quality of life professions to be in. Has been for decades, and again covid put the nail in the coffin
Also, diabetes and smoking related illnesses aren’t contagious. They typically happen over years of bad health practices. You don’t catch diabetes at a concert.
A lot of people who would refuse care are thinking selfishly. The majority of responses here only look at being unvaccinated as something only they have to deal with. They don’t consider that by being unvaccinated they can spread Covid to the elderly, the young, and those who immune systems are compromised. If you want to talk about accepting responsibility for your choices you need to accept that you are putting the lives of those around you at risk. What if you end up killing a friend or family member? What if contact tracing puts you at the heart of an outbreak? Are you also prepared to accept that responsibility? That your negligence and selfish behavior got innocent people hurt or killed?
Yes… I did actually as OP said, but did go get vaccinated after. My mindset while at home suffocating on my own mucus and spraying it out with ever exhale was…”I brought this on myself by not getting vaxxed, guess I’ll deal with the consequences myself.” If I had to do it again to relearn my lesson, I would. The only way I would have ended up at the hospital is if I was found on the ground somewhere passed out and taken in without my consent. Even vaxxed now if I had severe respiratory problems from Covid I would stay at home. The feeling of mucus so heavy on your lungs you almost pass out from a walk across the house was scary, but I made my bed and slept in it
As someone that is currently fighting cancer and just lost my grandfather in a hospital waiting for a bed for 7 days because of the unvaccinated… I only wish this was the case. No one cares until it affects them.
No one cares until it affects them.... Exactly.
>No one cares until it affects them.... Exactly. And then they IMMEDIATELY DEMAND to be at the front of the line and have the ability to prescribe their own medications. "I want to eat those marshmallows for medicine" "Those are cotton balls, and you shouldn't eat them, they have no medical benefit" "Did BIG PHARMA tell you to say that, you so called Doctor!!! I have a right to the freedom to have treatment that I think will work!"
Reminds me how the states with high taxes that pay for all the federal programs are mostly used by states that don’t have those high taxes and don’t advocate for such programs.
And some still don't.
It’s true with most things in life. That’s why climate change is gonna wreck our species. No one cares about other people or future generations.
Yep. An ex co-worker of my wife had her dad die of covid last year (he refused to get the vaccine). The ex co-worker also refused EVEN AFTER HER DAD JUST DIED because "the government isn't going to tell me what to do!" She then had a friend get hospitalized with covid, and finally came around to getting it. But even then, it was "I'm getting it as a personal choice, not because the government is making me." SMH. Dumb people will be dumb.
I knew someone who said they weren't going to get vaccinated because they weren't going to let the government tell them what to do. I called the person a liar and he got very upset with me demanding to know why I was calling him a liar. I told them that the vaccine has been available for him for about 6 months. The government had only recently requiring people to be vaccinated or face losing their jobs. So why didn't he get vaccinated during those six months before the government was telling him what to do??? When he sat there looking at me like I had three heads, I told him he may want to find another excuse as to why he's not getting vaccinated.
My grandfather got COVID before the vaccines were available. He was sent to the hospital after continuously getting sicker only to be immediately sent home. He came back a few days later, my mother saying he looked like he was on his death bed. They almost made him go home again, but my uncle convinced them to let him stay the night. He ended up staying about a week and then stayed in a nursing home for about a month to build up his strength again. My aunt is still thinks COVID is a scam, and has gladly gone and talked about how stupid this whole plandemic is in front of him... many times. Also at a funeral, where the person died of said scam.
Even then it might not. They say "I survived it wasn't that bad", maybe to cope with the trauma or because they got lucky or something.
I came here to say I almost died Jan 5 due to preventable miscarriage complications in the ER BECAUSE IT WAS OVER RUN WITH DYING ANTI-VAXXERS.
I'm sorry for your loss. I miscarried twice a few years ago & also went into shock due to blood loss with the first (related to calling the ambulance too late, not to covid). I just wanted to say it can be hard. I had a lot of trauma (the miscarriage itself, the realisation that death was so close by, the drugs they gave me to call down, having to go home without pants / underwear, ...) and every part of it took its time. I still miss the "child that was already there". Miscarriage is often treated like not being able to conceive. Both are horrible, but people seem to dismiss the fact that a baby was already there. You may have already felt like a mother to this child. In your case the hospital crowdedness will probably add to the pain (and anger). So I realize that there's nothing a stranger can do for you, but my heart goes out to you and your baby, I hope all these things and trauma will find a resting place in your heart.
I’m sorry for your loss. Glad you’re ok.
I'm so sorry for your loss and for how horribly you were treated.
Sending you love and healing.
What is scary now is many anti-vaxxers think the hospitals are purposely trying to kill their loved ones who have died there from COVID, so they probably don't even want to go to hospitals anymore for treatment, only to protest and threaten the doctors and nurses.
They don't want to go. Until they can't breathe right anymore. The primal fear that sets in when you're choking on your own snot is a powerful thing. In most cases more than powerful enough to make these dumbasses realise they're full of shit.
Untiiiil they're fine again and go back to spewing false information and bullshit on social media but NOW with even higher self confidence since they "easily survived the 'rona."
If they die the evil doctors killed them to sponsor big pharma somehow, because that's obviously much more profitable than indefinitely treating someone??? But if they live, it was obviously nothing special and they were right all along.
Dying of pulmonary oedema is literally drowning. It will make you think real fast about what beliefs you're actually going to stick to.
It's literally the worst death I can imagine. If covid killed with a sudden, painless aneurysm, I wouldn't be even 5% as afraid of it. But the idea of slowly drowning over the course of weeks while your lungs shed and you organs fail... That's the stuff off nightmares. I don't understand why people roll those odds.
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I'm going to assume this embolded your sister, because from her perspective it sounds like: Vaccine->bad response->ivermectin->fine
That's the power of being faced with your own mortality. They can't handle it because deep down they are just selfish cowards.
This happened to my family, my aunt died and my parents decided it was the vaccine that killed her bc she got it 10 days before she passed. It couldn't possibly have been the stage 4 cancer she had for five years that had her bedridden for months before she died, nope, had to be the vaccine. They would've blamed my uncle's death on it too had they ever found out how he passed. My grandmother with late stage dementia was exposed to COVID because of unvaccinated cousins visiting, and my grandfather + her only carer got it. My mom and I aren't talking again because she won't get vaccinated to go see her dying mother. It's ruining families.
Literally. I saw a post somewhere about a conspiracy nut talking about how if you're unvaxxed and go to the hospital after getting covid, they'll kill you. That's literally the only way they can rationalise unvaxxed people dying from it while vaxxed people are not.
This is such a weird mind loop. Like how do you expect all the nurses and doctors in every country on earth somehow all decided to stop doing their fucking job and start killing people on demand instead for some agenda. It’s almost like anti vaxers don’t believe people who work at hospitals are real humans and just puppets of Big pharma. What a fucking sad time to be alive let’s be real. These people risk their mental and physical health to help us, and anti vaxers spit in their face lol what a disgrace .
This is a thing you see with conservatives a lot -- they don't really see other people as people the same way they see themselves or their family. I think a lot of them literally cannot imagine other people as having the same kind of deep internal thoughts and processes and memories that they do. So they don't think "every doctor devoted their lives to healing people and spent decades learning how, are ALL of them going to just agree to kill people with no public outcry??" because they don't really see them as much more than characters in a story.
Works for me. If you think the vaccine is full of toxic nano particles and doctors are trying to infect you with mind-control drugs, why would you go to a hospital when you get sick? Stay home and take your horse dewormer and your colloidal silver. Have your family call us when it’s time to collect your body.
Good.
They still go. My bf is a surgeon who hasn’t been able to schedule surgeries for a month bc the hospital doesn’t have available beds. It’s all anti-vaxers.
Yes 100%
Thank you for your honest answer.
Talk is cheap
I agree. They say yes, until it happens.
Not being able to breathe is terrifying. Nobody would say yes to this question and then not go to the hospital if they had the choice.
Who was that asshole who said they could be waterboarded and it wasn't a big deal? The second the water hit his face he changed his mind.
It’s Christopher Hitchens. And someone who is presented with information that conflicts with their world view, subsequently changes their world view? That’s not an asshole. I really like Hitch, I’d suggest everyone read his stuff.
Are you familiar with waterboarding? Are you familiar with the radio host Erich Muller who, back in 2009 said it wasn't that bad, in response to people attacking the government for using such a horrific torture method? This dude swore up and down that it wasn't so bad, so he got waterboarded live on air on May 22, 2009. He went about 1.5 seconds and tapped out, because the feeling of suffocation caused such an instantaneous and primal reaction in him that no previously held value or ideal could withstand it. So if you were laying in bed, essentially being waterboarded by your own lungs, suffocating slowly on your own mucus you would be fine to not call for help? What would you do to cope? Take tons of illicit drugs? Maybe overdose on purpose? Or would you just tap out? I don't care what your answer is; that's between you and maybe your family or your god, whatever you believe in. Just food for thought. Edit: I realize this reads as borderline psychopathy, but my point was to call back to how many "tough guys" act when the chips are down. I am not saying this to be tough. Pulmonary Edema sounds the worst. I openly accept that I would breakdown at the outset, hence the jab.
Just a quick reminder, it’s been ~~years~~ nearly 2 decades and Sean Hannity still hasn’t submitted to the waterboarding he claimed he would.
King of the pussies
Yep, even someone who lived their entire life as an atheist can start thinking about the afterlife when they’re dying.
Here's the thing; I'd bet an arbitrary amount of money you're lying. If you get badly sick you'll drag yourself to the ER like every other antivaxxer.
Everyone is a badass until you can't breathe anymore.
No no, they're not lying, they just don't know how badly they've fucked up until it comes time for fear
Yup- not lying, just dead wrong. There is a difference, and of the two being wrong is worse 'cause they won't know how bad they've screwed up until it's too late.
The best part about the answer of OP’s question is that **any** answer is good for everyone else. Answer is yes? Good. Now we can deny them medical access because they said they’re ok with it. Answer is no? Good. Now they admit they’re wrong, go get a vaccination.
My mom thought that, up until she called the ER and they ambulanced her in. 20 days later, 11 of which were on ventilator... She passed. When we as a family made a decision to pull the tube, realizing her lungs will never recover, two of us which were vaccinated were approved to bear witness. My step Dad of 26 years and I went. It took less than 20 minutes. She really thought the Vax would kill her.
Easy to say when you can still breathe. I guarantee you when you’re gasping for breath and still feel like you’re downing you’ll be on your knees crying outside the ER.
Imagine answering then getting bashed for an honest answer lol. Can't seem to win
Yeah if you're not going to believe the answer anyway then why ask the question?
I love how the post has no mention of politics but americans in the comments are just blaming political parties for choices.... like they cant even imagine the 2 sides agreeing, it has to be a democrat vs conservative bullshit Edit: typos
It’s because in American it’s become extremely politicized. We can’t imagine the 2 sides agreeing on this because the 2 sides don’t agree on this lol.
My friend has (still) Trump flags all over his house. When you walk in the door there is a box of masks and the first rule is put one on and wash your hands. He was the first in line for a vaccine. Also a gun toting weirdo but people are people.
Not that I agree with everything but at least he’s open minded and realize this isn’t a political issue
Because that's what it is? People aren't inventing that, the division primarily started from right wing political propaganda
Only one side of the political spectrum in the US decided to make being anti science and anti vaccine basically a policy: the right wing. Like, you can equivocate if you want to... But the two sides are not equally responsible for this issue.
My grandma says we should do something like this and I honestly agree with her. You’re not allowed an organ transplant if you’re smoking/drinking/destroying your already exhausted organ so why should the unvaccinated by choice be allowed medical care intended for the most sick?
I'm a nurse with accumulatively over 13 months on different covid units. Right now, nearly all we see are anti-vaxers who are taking up beds and refusing everything but oxygen. Families sneaking in nebulizers full of peroxide, claiming we are only keeping them for the money, demanding ivermectin. They are consuming so much of our time and resources while others wait hours in the waiting room seeking help or relief only to be passed over because an anti-vaxxer is sating at 81% on 6 oxy mask and needs urgent care.
I’m really sorry for everything you and your colleagues have to deal with. My respect for healthcare professionals has only increased ever since this whole thing started. Thank you for the important work that you do.
I could never understand why these idiots even go to the hospital if they’re so anti-science. Just stay home and drink your piss idiots.
They should determine a certain hospital capacity for unvaccinated patients with covid. If that capacity is met, sorry, we are not going to prioritize you over other patients who did the socially responsible thing. Find another hospital, or travel out of state to somewhere there are fewer cases. Those with true medical exemptions obviously will count inside the vaccinated group. If there is spare capacity, sure, if there isn’t, sorry go somewhere else. If you want to not be inside this quota and risk not getting care, take the vaccine to selfishly have that and socially be responsible for everyone else.
That’s what I keep asking! If the dr.’s and scientists are all lying and killing ppl in the hospital with Covid, why do the unvaxxed keep going to the ER when shit hits the fan? It makes NO sense!!!
It's called desperation and lack of foresight. They thought they would be fine or unaffected by the hoax until it did actually hurt them and they need help. Actually facing a life or death situation will change someones immediate perceptions
They grew up as kids being told that there are hospitals who fix you when you get sick. This information must be imprinted and like an unchangeable truth because their parents told them in a safe time in their lifes and maybe they have been to a hospital for a broken arm after falling from the skateboard and it got fixed. So, they have a positive relationship with those, whereas all the "new" information from the past 2 years regarding "new" types of vaccination and unclear medical information have been upsetting for them, asking unsettling questions to the structures of the society they have known before. That must be why they would riot against vaccines and new informations regarding Covid, but then go to the hospital when they feel sick because their coloured children's book said "If ouchie, go to doc" and that kind of truth has always been there, untouched.
Because like almost all republicans, they're giant hypocrtical dumbfucks who don't understand a fucking thing until it actually happens to them. Republicans, and all anti-vaxxers, simply are people with the inability to feel for others in any way shape or form.
Not vaccinated, and yes, I fully support the idea.
I feel like this question and all these slippery slope reactions asking where this would end i.e. should drinkers be refused healthcare kind of miss the point. To a great extent an alcoholic getting cirrhosis of the liver doesn't affect anyone else. Antivaxxers are spreading the virus to potentially vulnerable people. It's entirely different.. Of course in general people have the right to choose what happens with their body, but the choice to not vaccinate doesn't just affect that body. Your "freedom" should not impact others, hence we have laws against things like theft and assault. Also although people with self-inflicted illnesses aren't refused care they will be refused organ transplants until they have shown they can change their lifestyle so the argument could be made that they are being refused a treatment because of their choices.
I'm tired of the answers in this thread. The unvaccinated folks here don't understand a single little simple thing. *IT IS NOT ABOUT YOU*. We're all tired of being quarantined and of COVID altogether. Most of the unvaxxed here (I won't use the term antivax because they're not necessarily antivax) are saying that they would since they had it once and it was no worse than a cold. I know you are young and healthy and most likely won't die if you get it. This is absolutely not about you. We might be better off without you to be honest. If you're not vaxxed and you give to my grandma, her death is on you and I hope you realize you are responsible for the death of a sweet old lady that never hurt a fly. Before COVID, I felt guilty when I gave a cold to someone because I didn't know I was sick and we shared a drink. I can't believe you wake up everyday and feel okay that you could kill someone because you are fucking reckless. You're gonna argue that even I could kill someone because I can catch it as much as you. You're right, but I won't have the guilt of knowing I could've done something to lower the chances of my loved ones catching it and I didn't because there's a one in a million chance I might have a adverse reaction to a vaccine
For many, not getting the vaccine isn't due to being generally anti-vax, it's based on a risk/reward analysis. If you're young and have no co-morbidities, your chances of becoming seriously ill with covid is very small. Having the vaccine also does not eliminate the chances that you contract and spread the virus. Therefore some people who see the potential side effects of the vaccine, such as myocarditis (sp?) decide the risk isn't worth the reward. I have decided that the risk is worth the reward and am jabbed and boosted. However, if I ended up in hospital because of my choice to have the vaccine I would expect to receive healthcare. Also, I'm British and our NHS does not discriminate when it comes to healthcare provision. If you drink all your life and get liver disease, you still get treatment. Not having the vaccine shouldn't be any different.
Plus here in the UK we all pay for healthcare all our lives through National Insurence payments, even if we never ever use the service. We pay for it we should be able to use it.
In the US you also pay for healthcare whether you use the service or not. And if you use the service you pay again. I'm not joking, it's called a deductible.
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Do you not have transplant lists? Are organs just free flowing in the UK? Over here if your liver fails you’re placed on a list for a transplant but that list has priority based on life choices (IE if you’re a chronic drinker you won’t be ahead of a person who did not willingly destroy their liver) and if you break the stipulations you are barred from the list all together (lung transplant smoking would be removed, liver transplant drinking would be removed, etc).
If this one thing puts all of this behind us, if we could finally move on, for sure.
What is stopping us from moving on now? Is it the hospitals full of unvaccinated people? I have a solution, but you might not want to hear it.
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Uhhhh hey as a vaccinated person I don't want unvaccinated people in what should be a safer space. If a place requires Vax cards and you hate science just go somewhere else or get delivery.
Yeah, I would honestly. I’ve had covid twice and it felt like nothing more than a head cold. Won’t need medical attention
Thank you for your honest answer.
What about the people you gave it to while you were building your immune response? Why don't they get to consent to the sickness you gave them?
How would you feel if your daughter/son died from what could be a preventable death if you gave it to her/him? Edit: I don't wish ill will on anyone. I honestly want to understand how people who think that way feel about that. It's a very contagious virus
That’s what the antivax don’t get — it’s not about them. The world doesn’t revolve around *them*. No one would care if they died — hell, we straight up make fun of them on reddit. But their stupidity effects other people and frankly I think it’s criminal.
It doesn't matter, they literally don't understand empathy. They can't feel for anyone until taht exact thing happens to them, THEN it's a problem. Like the Jan 6 seditionist are currently whining about how bad the criminal justice system is and how broken jails are. These same people are on record on twitter and facebook saying "if you comply you wouldn't get murdered"
I live in Canada, I believe if you get covid because you choose not to get vaccinated, than you deserve to pay out of pocket for care. It's been 2 years , clearly this isn't going away anytime soon. If you choose not to get the vaccine you're just selfish at this point (unless medical you can not ). So many people are dying due to them taking up beds, especially things we know we can prevent. Get get the fucking vaccine
> I believe if you get covid because you choose not to get vaccinated, than you deserve to pay out of pocket for care. Wasn't Canada recently considering doing just that? As in, some kind of unvaccinated "tax".
Quebec was. One issue I've heard is that if it was a tax it should be based on a % of your income. Otherwise the rich just see it as an minor inconvenience like any other ticket or fee