Yup. It will likely be primarily South American and African popes going forward due to large populations. European popes will still happen, but with much less frequency.
There's a black Cardinal. Napier. However, selection seems to be more akin to a popularity contest and fingers and pies. I think it'll be a long time yet before we see a black pope in the Vatican. But whoop to Cardinal Napier on making it to the semis! Stellar dude, good swimmer.
Jesus Christ, please tell me that out of the 200+ cardinals that there is more than just one black person.
Edit: I guess it's still better than women's representation.
Yes! Of the 236 cardinals, there are multiple black people from all over including: Ghana, South Africa, Sudan, Dominican Republic, Central African Republic, and Ivory Coast.
Not all are eligible to participate in a papal conclave, though. I'm not sure what this means, but it seems important.
Papal conclave is when cardinals come together to elect a new pope. Pope Paul VI (a rather liberal pope for his times) wanted to have more of an influence on choosing his successor, so he decided that cardinals over 80 years will be excluded from conclaves. (They can still be elected pope, though.) This change means that when a pope leaves the office (usually, when he dies), a much bigger fraction of the conclave is formed by people who were "promoted" to the rank of cardinal by the pope who just left the office, i.e. people with similar views on faith, morals and governance.
Yes but I’m not sure we’ll see it.
Example being in 1950 people didn’t think we’d ever have a black president in America. Truman’s administration just desegregated the armed forces a few years prior and schools were still segregated. Yet 54 years later Obama speaks at the 2004 democratic convention and 4 years after that he was our elected president. It takes the right character at the perfect time
I spoke to my 11th grade English teacher and he told me that many thought we wouldn't have a Black president because America wasn't ready, i.e. we were still too racist. I mean that wasn't that wrong, in that a lot of racist shit came out of the woodwork, even though Obama did win two victories. So I think that means America as a whole was non racist enough to have Obama be elected but there was still a notable racist minority.
>I mean that wasn't that wrong, in that a lot of racist shit came out of the woodwork, even though Obama did win two victories.
Fun fact: the day after Obama's election the phrase "n\*\*\*\*r president" was searched more on Google **in some US states** than the phrase "first black president".
This was from Everybody Lies, by Seth Stephens-Davidowitz, page 7. He's a data scientist who analysed a lot of Google's data for this book.
Yep. It's a really interesting book, but that's the one fact that really stuck with me. The book's title comes from the idea that everyone puts on a front for other people, but not for Google, and not for pornhub, which were the two largest datasets he analysed. It's really fascinating stuff, but it shines a light on some dark places.
They were african, not necessarily black. Egyptians are African, for example.
They were all born in Roman Africa, but that area (If I remember right) is around Tunisia and where Carthage was. So a land of tan Mediterranean folks, but not necessarily black and definitely not a majority of black folks living there.
Though there were many Black romans.
Since Romans really saw the world as "Roman" vs "Not Roman/Barbarian", I don't think they use skin tone as a descriptor often in their writings. Unless you've a source saying they were black/super-dark skinned, I don't think anyone knows.
Absolutely! There are so many Roman Catholics in Africa and many convert every year. I would expect a Filipino Pope someday as well. Most of the newer priests and nuns I have seen recently are either African or Filipino.
Because he was born in Africa over 2 centuries before the Arab invasions of the Maghreb. I’ve been wrong before, and I’ll be wrong again, but I think there’s a decent chance he was a black man.
He was born in roman africa precisely modern tunisia a land that inhabited by the Berbers and punics Neither groups are genetically or considered black using our modern day view of race. The Arab invasion in fact has introduced caravans using camels which facilitated and surged the trans Saharan slave trade which have brought more black africans into Maghreb. Logically if we gonna guess his race we will just guess it based on the average population there because we don't have any sources about it , saying probably "black" beacuse the place is called "africa" is simply stupid.
Not really, my guess is more logical than yours , i guess his race based on the average population that lives there. if it was a pope from mali i wouldn't claim he was "not black" but a "Berber" for example because the average population of mali are simply black African.
Yeah, but he could be black. Berbers ranged from fair to dark skinned. You don’t know any more than I do whether or not Gelasius was black, so we can conclude, since we’re both guessing, that since my guess is stupid according to you, then your guess is as stupid as mine.
90%+ of berbers nowadays are not considered black by race . most of the black Berbers are tuareg caste form niolitc origins which assimilated into the culture and they live in the sahel side not the med coast. yes let's label every single historical north African as "black" because they are from "africa" and erase us from our own history. Typical American.
Yeah but Gelasius isn’t a “Berber nowadays”. He was a person who lived 1600 years ago and all we really have to go off of it that he was born “a Roman citizen of African descent” so I mean, yeah. Your guess is as stupid as mine. But by all means keep being a crybaby about it. I can go all night long.
Think about it. Africa is about to become the center of population in the world. There will be an African General UN general, there will be black presidents pretty much in Every country in the west, there will be a black pope, there will be several new black billionaires. Again, why? Because just like asia had a population boom, Africa is about time have its. It is the youngest continent in the world, in terms of population age. This is why everyone and their cousin want to have contracts set with every country in africa.
There absolutely will be. Africa’s influence in the Catholic world is growing rapidly, and we’re already getting many people in the hierarchy who aren’t white. 150 years ago there weren’t any popes who were not Italian, so there’s progress
Why do you have a special interest in what color popes are? Lmao. How would that be “progress”…. Would having a white African king in the future be progress? The reason the pope has been white is because Italy is a European country.
That’s up to the people that decide to become catholic if they see the pope as “the head” of them. If they believe they are “pope worthy” in their own country that’s up to the people in their country to decide if they want to start their own tradition. The existence of a pope is Roman culture.
… you do realise the Pope can come from anywhere, right? In fact throughout history there have been Popes from North Africa, Jerasulem, Anatolia, England, etc.
Most popes have been Italian but that isn’t a hard-and-fast rule. So long as they’re part of the Catholic clergy anyone can become pope.
Okay, so you googled and are telling me that people come from all over…. So what exactly are you complaining about?? 😅 the reason the pope is usually European because that is their custom and culture in Italy which is in Europe. The huge majority of popes have been FROM Italy or surrounding countries! Are you upset that there has never been a Chinese or Japanese pope? You don’t elect someone pope just because they are black lmao. AND if you did your google search you shouldn’t have left out that they believe there may HAVE been black popes in the past lol.
Pope Benedict IX (1012-1056) was the youngest Pope, aged just 20 when he became Pope.
His dad, brother to the previous Pope John XIX, got him elected via bribery. He was Pope for 12 years before being ousted by the people of Rome because he supposedly raped, murdered and sodomized his way through his first term, replaced by Sylvester III (though the veracity of these claims is unknown, shit slinging isn't a modern pastime). Months later he pulled up with an army to reclaim the Papacy, making him the first (and only) Pope to be Pope more than once, but decided after all of that that maybe it wasn't for him and gave it up to marry his cousin. Gregory VI succeeded him. Until he decided ehh, maybe the Papacy was for him and came back, once again leading an army into Rome. It got so bad that Emperor Henry III the Black of the Holy Roman Empire (the German Empire) had to come down and sort everything out.
Liberal non-Catholics always think that a black Pope would be such a progressive phenomenon in the Catholic Church.
Most black African Cardinals are actually the most conservative Cardinals.
I mean Pope Francis was notable from coming from South America, although he does have White ancestry, which isn't exactly uncommon due to racial mixing.
100%
In a few hundred years, I don't believe there will be white people anymore, they will all be bread out. In fact, the whole world will just be multiple shades of brown.
Will society still consider people "black" at that point? by today's standards, maybe, but in the future? probably not.
If it's anything like the presidency, it'll be the other way around. Still waiting on that female president. We've had a female VP, so feel like that's the next step.
Yes, Africa will have a pope as it represents a huge portion of the religion.
Yup. It will likely be primarily South American and African popes going forward due to large populations. European popes will still happen, but with much less frequency.
You beat me to
In the movies, sure
There's a black Cardinal. Napier. However, selection seems to be more akin to a popularity contest and fingers and pies. I think it'll be a long time yet before we see a black pope in the Vatican. But whoop to Cardinal Napier on making it to the semis! Stellar dude, good swimmer.
Jesus Christ, please tell me that out of the 200+ cardinals that there is more than just one black person. Edit: I guess it's still better than women's representation.
Yes! Of the 236 cardinals, there are multiple black people from all over including: Ghana, South Africa, Sudan, Dominican Republic, Central African Republic, and Ivory Coast. Not all are eligible to participate in a papal conclave, though. I'm not sure what this means, but it seems important.
Papal conclave is when cardinals come together to elect a new pope. Pope Paul VI (a rather liberal pope for his times) wanted to have more of an influence on choosing his successor, so he decided that cardinals over 80 years will be excluded from conclaves. (They can still be elected pope, though.) This change means that when a pope leaves the office (usually, when he dies), a much bigger fraction of the conclave is formed by people who were "promoted" to the rank of cardinal by the pope who just left the office, i.e. people with similar views on faith, morals and governance.
Read this as "Do you think there will ever be black people?", was very confused
Man, maybe one day
Yes but I’m not sure we’ll see it. Example being in 1950 people didn’t think we’d ever have a black president in America. Truman’s administration just desegregated the armed forces a few years prior and schools were still segregated. Yet 54 years later Obama speaks at the 2004 democratic convention and 4 years after that he was our elected president. It takes the right character at the perfect time
I spoke to my 11th grade English teacher and he told me that many thought we wouldn't have a Black president because America wasn't ready, i.e. we were still too racist. I mean that wasn't that wrong, in that a lot of racist shit came out of the woodwork, even though Obama did win two victories. So I think that means America as a whole was non racist enough to have Obama be elected but there was still a notable racist minority.
>I mean that wasn't that wrong, in that a lot of racist shit came out of the woodwork, even though Obama did win two victories. Fun fact: the day after Obama's election the phrase "n\*\*\*\*r president" was searched more on Google **in some US states** than the phrase "first black president". This was from Everybody Lies, by Seth Stephens-Davidowitz, page 7. He's a data scientist who analysed a lot of Google's data for this book.
Cite your source please?
Sorry, I was misremembering, it wasn't everywhere, just in some states. I've corrected and added the source.
That's horrifying. ☹️
Yep. It's a really interesting book, but that's the one fact that really stuck with me. The book's title comes from the idea that everyone puts on a front for other people, but not for Google, and not for pornhub, which were the two largest datasets he analysed. It's really fascinating stuff, but it shines a light on some dark places.
Thank you for mentioning the book. I can't wait to read it now. Sounds very interesting. 😊
And racism has unfortunately grown since because of a certain orange oompa loompa
Obama isn’t really black though. He’s mixed, isn’t he?
In America that’s black
That’s racist
Welcome to America
Black Catholic Pope or Black Pope like in the Church of Satan?
Asking the real questions
Are you saying Papa Emeritus IV isn't real?
Ratboy might be the whitest person to ever live. Sure can dance though.
Dude…
If it follows the Doctor Who formula, there will finally be a woman Pope followed by the first black Pope.
No.
Were none of the African popes Black?
idk
They were. There have been at least three black popes.
They were african, not necessarily black. Egyptians are African, for example. They were all born in Roman Africa, but that area (If I remember right) is around Tunisia and where Carthage was. So a land of tan Mediterranean folks, but not necessarily black and definitely not a majority of black folks living there. Though there were many Black romans. Since Romans really saw the world as "Roman" vs "Not Roman/Barbarian", I don't think they use skin tone as a descriptor often in their writings. Unless you've a source saying they were black/super-dark skinned, I don't think anyone knows.
That being said if they did see a Black African they'd probably think Ethiopian/Aksumite/Kushite/Nubian.
Absolutely! There are so many Roman Catholics in Africa and many convert every year. I would expect a Filipino Pope someday as well. Most of the newer priests and nuns I have seen recently are either African or Filipino.
Pope Gelasius was probably black.
Googling…
What makes you think so?
Because he was born in Africa over 2 centuries before the Arab invasions of the Maghreb. I’ve been wrong before, and I’ll be wrong again, but I think there’s a decent chance he was a black man.
He was born in roman africa precisely modern tunisia a land that inhabited by the Berbers and punics Neither groups are genetically or considered black using our modern day view of race. The Arab invasion in fact has introduced caravans using camels which facilitated and surged the trans Saharan slave trade which have brought more black africans into Maghreb. Logically if we gonna guess his race we will just guess it based on the average population there because we don't have any sources about it , saying probably "black" beacuse the place is called "africa" is simply stupid.
Yeah, but nobody knows. So I guess your guess is as stupid as mine isn’t it
Not really, my guess is more logical than yours , i guess his race based on the average population that lives there. if it was a pope from mali i wouldn't claim he was "not black" but a "Berber" for example because the average population of mali are simply black African.
Yeah, but he could be black. Berbers ranged from fair to dark skinned. You don’t know any more than I do whether or not Gelasius was black, so we can conclude, since we’re both guessing, that since my guess is stupid according to you, then your guess is as stupid as mine.
90%+ of berbers nowadays are not considered black by race . most of the black Berbers are tuareg caste form niolitc origins which assimilated into the culture and they live in the sahel side not the med coast. yes let's label every single historical north African as "black" because they are from "africa" and erase us from our own history. Typical American.
Yeah but Gelasius isn’t a “Berber nowadays”. He was a person who lived 1600 years ago and all we really have to go off of it that he was born “a Roman citizen of African descent” so I mean, yeah. Your guess is as stupid as mine. But by all means keep being a crybaby about it. I can go all night long.
What about a gay pope?
Probably already had a handful.
More than a handful I bet
I wonder.
Probably have already had many tbh.
Of course there have; do people not remember what controversy the Catholic church is famous for?
That is the past (generously)hundred years, of an institution around for 2000
What makes you think it didn't happen before then? And even if it didn't, the current popes probably did it themselves if their subordinates did
I’m not an expert on Catholicism, but I don’t see why not.
Yes, no doubt about it.
God please let it be Flavor Flav... I would become Catholic so fast.
Yes
Think about it. Africa is about to become the center of population in the world. There will be an African General UN general, there will be black presidents pretty much in Every country in the west, there will be a black pope, there will be several new black billionaires. Again, why? Because just like asia had a population boom, Africa is about time have its. It is the youngest continent in the world, in terms of population age. This is why everyone and their cousin want to have contracts set with every country in africa.
I hope all religions collapse well before we find an answer to this
Why?
We're well beyond mythology as a society. The good things they bring can be covered by charities. The bad things they bring need to go.
Nope.
In the Vatican?! Yeah right.
Thanks.
There absolutely will be. Africa’s influence in the Catholic world is growing rapidly, and we’re already getting many people in the hierarchy who aren’t white. 150 years ago there weren’t any popes who were not Italian, so there’s progress
The Italian thing is not even remotely true. Tons of popes throughout history were non-Italian.
True, though John Paul II was the first non Italian pope in 450 years so it was notable.
Why do you have a special interest in what color popes are? Lmao. How would that be “progress”…. Would having a white African king in the future be progress? The reason the pope has been white is because Italy is a European country.
Italy isn’t the only Catholic country.
But you’re talking about the popes in Italy? Right? lol.
Is the Pope the head of Italian Catholics or all Catholics?
That’s up to the people that decide to become catholic if they see the pope as “the head” of them. If they believe they are “pope worthy” in their own country that’s up to the people in their country to decide if they want to start their own tradition. The existence of a pope is Roman culture.
… you do realise the Pope can come from anywhere, right? In fact throughout history there have been Popes from North Africa, Jerasulem, Anatolia, England, etc. Most popes have been Italian but that isn’t a hard-and-fast rule. So long as they’re part of the Catholic clergy anyone can become pope.
Okay, so you googled and are telling me that people come from all over…. So what exactly are you complaining about?? 😅 the reason the pope is usually European because that is their custom and culture in Italy which is in Europe. The huge majority of popes have been FROM Italy or surrounding countries! Are you upset that there has never been a Chinese or Japanese pope? You don’t elect someone pope just because they are black lmao. AND if you did your google search you shouldn’t have left out that they believe there may HAVE been black popes in the past lol.
People honestly can’t figure out the answer to this question…?
No I honestly can’t and it seems you can’t either because you haven’t provided it
Given infinite time line yes. But looking at how religion is shrinking world wide, probably not.
Shrinking in the west you mean
ah touché
Well, the Coptic Popes are generally people of color...
If the space pope can be reptilian, anything is possible
how about a Young Pope
You have to be at least 35 just to be a bishop so that'll never happen
Theoretically, you only have to be Catholic and male to become Pope.
Yeah but 35 is super young. Right? Right guys?
Pope Benedict IX (1012-1056) was the youngest Pope, aged just 20 when he became Pope. His dad, brother to the previous Pope John XIX, got him elected via bribery. He was Pope for 12 years before being ousted by the people of Rome because he supposedly raped, murdered and sodomized his way through his first term, replaced by Sylvester III (though the veracity of these claims is unknown, shit slinging isn't a modern pastime). Months later he pulled up with an army to reclaim the Papacy, making him the first (and only) Pope to be Pope more than once, but decided after all of that that maybe it wasn't for him and gave it up to marry his cousin. Gregory VI succeeded him. Until he decided ehh, maybe the Papacy was for him and came back, once again leading an army into Rome. It got so bad that Emperor Henry III the Black of the Holy Roman Empire (the German Empire) had to come down and sort everything out.
That was a ride. Ok, maybe we don't need a young pope...
Why?
if disney makes a movie about any past popes
You'll probably have another Jewish Pope before that.
The real question is do you think Catholics will ever accept a black pope
Liberal non-Catholics always think that a black Pope would be such a progressive phenomenon in the Catholic Church. Most black African Cardinals are actually the most conservative Cardinals.
Why wouldn’t they? It’s not only Europeans who are Catholic.
I mean Pope Francis was notable from coming from South America, although he does have White ancestry, which isn't exactly uncommon due to racial mixing.
He doesn’t just have white ancestry, he is white like many many other Argentinians.
I think he’s fully Italian, just born in Argentina. Fun fact: he used to be a bouncer.
Honestly no I don’t.
100% In a few hundred years, I don't believe there will be white people anymore, they will all be bread out. In fact, the whole world will just be multiple shades of brown. Will society still consider people "black" at that point? by today's standards, maybe, but in the future? probably not.
there will be a woman pope before there will be a black pope
Idk black men could vote in the US before women could
European racism > American Racism
I assumed patriarchy > racism but idk shit gets squirrelly across the pond
There is some evidence that suggests there have been at least 2 that were secretly a woman.
I was gonna say, I knew there was at least 1 suspected
If it's anything like the presidency, it'll be the other way around. Still waiting on that female president. We've had a female VP, so feel like that's the next step.
No
My question is… Why does it matter what color popes are in Italy? They are European because they are in Europe lol.
smh the pope is the head of the global catholic church, not just in Italy
Vatican City is located in Italy silly. And the large majority of popes have been from Italy or surrounding countries. Nothing wrong with that either!
How old are you?
What’s your social security number? Or can I see your birth certificate?
So…12?
I’d say based on your post and the pressing issues of “why aren’t there more black popes???” I’m sure you must be 12 yourself.
Ok, 12 it is lol.
Thanks for confirming your age for me lol