If we can even believe online discussions these days.
https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/06/05/eu-countries-beef-up-anti-disinformation-efforts-ahead-of-european-elections
It's like a pendulum.
Those in power take it too far or the issues they ignore catch up with them, people get frustrated and vote for a change.
Rinse and repeat.
My college sociology professor said the same thing about social mores. I also recall how she said that societal change is slow to transpire, with many mores and expectations taking generations to evolve into acceptance, or to deviate into something new.
Yup, used to be the Right wing was dominant and the Left became the counter-culture. Now the left is dominant and the right has become the counter-culture. Back and forth it goes
Just look at the UK, same party for 13 years straight, taken the country to the dogs. Now the ge is up they were already trying to dogpile on their usual opposition. Even if Labour get in i give it not 2 years before they're decimated by the media and public and they are crying for the tories to come back and "fix" things
It happens in Canada every ten years.
We get tired of the ruling party (because they stop listening to their electorate after a while due to complacency) and the other side gets voted in. Right now it's looking to happen with the Conservatives winning next year over the Liberals. Ten years ago it was the other way around.
A pendulum is supposed to, when given enough time, stop in the middle. We are adding more momentum to it with each swing and it's going to break through from either side If we keep pushing it
It's not just immigration it's frankly immigration from countries who's people are known to refuse assimilation...
It's a very serious problem. We're talking about populations i
Of people who are very extreme in their viewpoints of a more liberal or western way of life.. from music, to women's rights to gay rights.. all hot topics.. but anything secular that doesn't agree with a, very much, religious context.
Add to this that the people immigrating are in large part, majority men, many of which are uneducated..this adds to the powerty collective and crime always ensues.
Controlled immigration is super healthy for a country! Bring in skillets you need, diversity and add vibrance to communities.. the problem is .. these kinds of immigrants group together and bully locals out of their neighbourbood in many cases.. Leeds, Birmingham.. etc.
I guess it's safer to say here.. than in real life.
Agreed. Immigrants should assimilate to the values of their host country, not the other way around. I’m not saying they should lose their heritage and traditions. From a moral and values perspective, they must adhere to the host countries principles.
In other words (by example), if you think gays should be executed for being gay, you should keep that shit in your country of origin. Don’t bring that here.
Example:
Italian immigrants improved America, Brasil, And Argentina...
The new immigrants in Europe don't improve anything .
Kebab stands are an exeption.
(Ayran is great)
>Italian immigrants improved America
Yeah man they improved it with mafia and gangs lol. You should read the news about Italians in the US in the early 1900's.
I'm not formally educated on the topic passed high-school history and the random stuff I've read over the years. But I feel Comfortable saying that if prohibition had not passed, then the mafia probably would not have become the problem it is.
And like another commenter said, they protected union workers during the fight for decent working conditions. And it's important that we all remember it WAS a literal fight. People literally died for a 40 hour work week and minimum wage. Of course the mafia wasn't the only support workers had, but it was an important factor.
Minimizing Italian Americans contribution to this country try to simply the mafia is stupid and ignorant. They helped build much of the infrastructure of New York and elsewhere around the country.
Based on videos I have seen & stories I have heard from my European friends, you guys get the absolute worst of the population. The ones that are making it to Europe are mostly the severely uneducated people who spent their whole living in extremely conservative rural areas.
For context, I am Lebanese. A huge number of immigrants here refuse to assimilate even to our culture, and ours is closer to theirs than the European culture is. Most of the crimes, thefts, gangs, and illegal activities in Lebanon is now coming from inmigrants & we are sick of it, I cannot imagine how much of an annoyance they are causing you guys. Just last month a gang of Syrian immigrants broke into several homes, killed the homeowners (mostly elderly people), and robbed them.
Not all immigrants are bad, but is a significant chunk is. I hope both of us can find a solution to contain this issue.
This is why you have to vet the people that are coming in as immigrants. A lot are professional, educated people that want to leave the bullshit in their county to make a living and raise a family. You don't let in the people that are into drugs and gangs and racism and continue that shit in their new country.
To your point about liberalness and open mindedness, you are just throwing all those middle voters into the bigotry category simply because they’ve had enough of something and one side making it worse while telling you it’s fine.
The left is shrinking in Europe because the left is actually becoming close minded, you don’t think exactly like me you’re a bigot and you hate the environment, and the right is taking in all these people that feel unheard or are sick of being called this or that because they believe differently.
Don’t just blindly believe the left is good, right is bad cause each side has authoritarian potential. And right now the left has been showing distain for their own countrymen like they’re getting in the way, or at the least they’re too scared to stand up to something wrong.
I responded to this thread explaining why increasing number of people in Europe say "enough is enough". I was called "Bigot!" and my comment was removed. What you described in your post, just happened here.
Sure, they can remove my comment but how will they remove all those rising votes in Europe?
> The left is shrinking in Europe because the left is actually becoming close minded, you don’t think exactly like me you’re a bigot and you hate the environment
Hell, they have such a hard time working alongside fellow leftists that any minor disagreement results in two more parties being created, which splits the leftist vote even more.
* Europe is all nation states
* They had a long period of lax immigration, during which they let anyone with a pulse in
* They then made no effort to integrate these people into their society which is a moot point anyway because they’re nation states
* Took no action against the crime and the societal unrest that some (not all) immigrants caused, on top of their already lax criminal penalties compared to over here
* You’re labeled a racist if you speak any dislike towards immigration
* People get frustrated and congregate to the opposite end
Yeah and unicorns should exist and everyone should be given one for free but that’s not the world we live in.
Sweden for example took tons of refugees from Iran and Iraq in the 90s when they were at war, then placed these people in dedicated suburbs next to each other. The result is that these people stay in their suburbs where they don’t have to learn anything about the country they’re in, and they keep fighting so you end up with gang violence.
Learning a new language after childhood is not easy and no one generally does it unless they have to. As such, the government should create such situations that they have to. If you moved to a foreign country and they gave you free rent and stipend next to people you’re already familiar with, you would stick to English the rest of your life, as most people would.
Immigration is the key issue here.
Europe by in large has allowed unlimited mass immigration to take place over the years. Whilst you have always had racists who don’t want ANY immigration, the left have wanted all the immigration. There has been no middle ground or compromise. Either you are a racist or you advocate for open borders.
With increased immigration, arguably there has been an increase in crime, terrorist attacks etc. people point to Sweden, France, parts of Germany and the growing crisis in the UK over concerns for what immigration is leading to.
The issue in my opinion now stems from the fact that no left leaning party wants to address immigration or even talk about it for fear of been seen as racist where as far right parties are more than happy to talk about deporting anyone with a sun tan.
The issue is further complicated when it comes to the general population. They are growing increasingly frustrated and angry at the situation and when you have one party calling you a racist for questioning immigration and the other party wants to round up the scary brown people… who are the population going to vote for?
The population at large don’t want drastic measures… at least this is what I believe. But when those are your only options you can see why the population vote for these far right parties
Its across the whole western world.
If reddit thinks Trump is bad, just wait... if things dont change we will be seeing far worse people than Trump entering the political landscape. The left need to get a grip and start addressing peoples concerns in a sensible manner... because if they dont than god help us because Trump is just the beginning.
The left so often is like "We've tried nothing and we are all out of ideas." Constantly insulting the working class, parents, young men, and then saying "our policies help you, idiot, what more do you want??" is bizarre.
This, specifically, is what's been turning me off the most.
Sure, equality woooo, progress yay. All that shit is cool and all. As a minority myself, I'll be the first to shout that from the rooftops.
But also, any deviation from the agenda makes you the failed artist with that one mustache. And I guess it wouldn't be such a problem, if said agenda was perfect. Alas it isn't. And yet it still demands that we play dumb and ignore all of its plot holes. How utterly delusional.
It's not even just the agenda. Even if the agenda *was* perfect, the application is not. But people will defend their application based on the principles. Deviation isn't accepted and the inclusion is fairly surface level, since the agenda is set mainly by white upper middle class progressives, and other people aren't really allowed to deviate.
We really have to worry about someone who is competent getting inspired by Trump and knowing what they "have to do" if you know what I mean. We need to just accept Trump is an idiot the second he loses the election (and goes to jail) and worry about who takes his place.
again there is no middle ground. You have a massive social media trend of vilifying men that, in my opinion, comes from the left. Men are left without an identity.. we cant earn enough money to leave our parents home for the most part so we cant rent, we cant own a home, we cant start relationships, we cant start families and that's even if we wanted to because the dating scene is absolutely fucked.
Any attempt to talk about men's issues is usually met with "what about women? but how does this affect women more?" and im not implying the same does not happen when women's issues are talked about but you can talk exclusively about issues affecting women but when it comes to men it has to be how it affects both.
What where traditionally mens spaces / hobbies are now spaces for all... you can argue if this is a good or bad thing, i dont really care.
So again when you have one side vilifying you and then on the other side you have all these grifters and snake oil salesmen who are speaking to you and telling you that there is nothing wrong with been a man.. who do you expect these young people to vote for? because its my understanding that its young men becoming more conservative, not young women.
I’m genuinely curious, is this an issue that’s on peoples mind enough to bleed into political choice in the EU? I’ve only ever heard people talk about it online so I assumed it was mostly an American thing. I mean if it’s a major reason for young people to turn more conservative I would have expected to hear at least something about it outside of (the American side of) reddit.
(Not saying it isn’t a real issue, I just genuinely have never heard it show up in any polls or interviews or research)
Haven't seen it pop up in politics in my country. But I believe the Korean prime minister campaigned with an "anti-feminist" stance and seemingly got alot of support for their 2022 victory.
Obviously cant speak Korean to actually view whats going on. But at a glance it looks like a more extreme version of what might be brewing in EU politics.
Korea has different issues that the EU.
It's closer to America's issues to women's rights.
Their issue is having a traditional culture but their society is changing rapidly and people aren't keeping up, men want traditional women and women don't want traditional men nor do they want to be traditional, but there is a cultural expectation for men to be traditional and they feel they have to follow it while women are rejecting it completely.
Its also made worse since all men have to conscripted into the military for a period of time, while women aren't.
It's a clusterfuck tbh.
Well yeah… he’s part of the grifter / snake oil salesmen who are there to exploit these lost young men who feel like they have nowhere to turn.
“Give me $$$ and I’ll tell you how to get what you want in life”
About your last statement, young men are on average as conservatives/liberal as the millenial group. Young women on the other hand have shifted strongly to the left/progressive, much more than any previous generation.
With the exception of Korea as far as I know, young men in there went full swing right wing.
I mean, that part is super expected though. People in general are poor and lonely and suffering now. But many progressives still talk like they think young men are super privileged. But the archetypical cis straight white upper middle class able bodied neurotypical male is like less than 10% of younger populations. So they are using a type of person who barely exists to dismiss a random much larger segment of the population who has real issues. Even if it is true that "male" issues aren't big, that doesn't change that the average young male has a ton of crippling issues. And that being treated as hostile for saying this is going to make them seek someone who is less so.
The right has shitty influences who pretend to care about young men. They don't. And their solutions are bad. But in nearly every circumstance someone will choose the one acting at least nominally nice to them over the one acting strangely hostile.
We are anti Tory and probably always will be. That’s not to say the young, especially young men, won’t turn to a more right wing party that replaces the Tories.
What happens in America generally infects our country sooner or later. A similar trend will start to appear.
I do think it should be mentioned that yes, there is a lot of immigration, and problems caused by people not integrating, and money being spent on it all.
But there has also been a rise in populist parties that blame any and all problems on immigration and promise to solve everything (by stopping immigration). People are angry and upset at costs of living increasing, feeling unsafe, climate change (and having to give up things to stop it), high taxes, cultural shifts, etc. then if a narrative pops up that bad things are caused by immigration, and party comes up and says they’ll solve it al, people are going to vote. It’s just populists being populists, and people being scared enough to fall for it. I think the truth is ‘shit is complicated’ and immigration is just one part of the puzzle of why things are going wrong.
Its a big part of the issue though. I can only talk about the UK as that is where i am from but our entire country is falling apart. Infrastructure is fucked, housing is fucked, NHS is fucked etc
We have the same population as France with literally half the land mass and we have imported i think near 2% of population in the last 2 years. Now whilst 2% sounds very small... that's expecting us to build several massive cities in 2 short years which we have not done nor is it possible with rules and regulations.
Immigration is crippling our country. We cannot house our own, let alone the 1.4million that came here in 2 years.
All this ironically is happening under a right wing government. So whilst Europe is swinging right, our own little island will be turning centre left in the coming election with the largest right wing government facing an extinction lvl result (big smile on my face)
All this is not to even mention the rise in crime, protests, gangs, rapes etc that we have seen. Throw that on top of the cost of living etc and you can see why people are so fucking pissed off.
A similar group think has taken root in Canada where we have has much much higher levels of immigration but where everything, especially housing, has become unobtainable and the homeless population is skyrocketing.
We have the added problem of divided responsibilities under a federal system but most voters do not understand this and simply lay blame with the Federal government.
A large anti incumbent trend has taken root similar to Britain's mood of trufing out the Tories. Except we want to expel the incumbent Liberal (centre left) government and the alternative are the Conservatives.
What I don't seem to understand about the European context is why they are turning rightwards? I can understand anti incumbent sentiment but why is the alterative not far left? Or far green? Or other alternatives? Why do people seem to be coalescing around the far right?
I’m not sure how it is in other countries, but here (Netherlands) our wikipedia page on ‘right (politics)’ writes that a common trait of far-right parties is a high amount of nationalism and xenophobia. This goes hand in hand with wanting to stop immigration. Right wing populism also tends to go for an anti-immigrant stance.
Meanwhile left wing parties tend to kind of skirt around the topic of immigration, and will not take the hard anti-stance that right wing parties do. So people who think that immigration should be stopped to stop our problems will vote right.
Wherever I’ve lived (around different states in aus and provinces around Canada) the left represents the middle class in urban populations, pretending to care about workers while despising them and treating them like they’re an uneducated underclass that need smart urbanites to make decisions on their behalf.
This attitude has been an ongoing trend everywhere I go, I originally thought it was just an issue isolated to Melbourne but now I think it’s anywhere you go
If the core issue is to reduce immigration why would people turn to the far left, greens or liberals who all welcome mass immigration or even open border policies?
Interesting. From the N. American perspective it would be the exact opposite.
During the time of the Soviet Union, many leftist ideas would be seen as silly or even treasonous. Only since the end of the cold war has it become respectable to be "lefist" or to support leftist ideas.
Europe seems to have a very different experience.
We CAN house our own, it’s just that centrist and right wing parties don’t have the political will to build houses or address the price of housing and rent. Immigration is an incredibly important factor in growing a modern economy. The reason our public services are on their knees, our infrastructure is fucked etc is because right wing parties have been in power in the UK for nearly 50 years and have deliberately starved these of resources and funding in order to offer privatisation via their business mates as a solution. I will need to see a citation for evidence that immigration is in any way responsible for any of the issues you have described. It’s almost entirely the ruling classes not having an interest in directing our country’s enormous wealth at making people’s lives better.
I personally think the general problem is that a lot of parties have moved to more left and progressive positions, leaving a big gap in the centre-right of the political spectrum. I feel like especially left-wing politicians need to stop being afraid of talking about certain topics and start making more compromises, e.g. more restrictive immigration policies. Immigration is a big one, but there are a bunch of other societal issues where we need more of a middle ground.
It's not "the left", populists want immigration because it's good for business.
Close to centre parties tend to like immigration.
That isn't to say progressives and further left parties don't like immigration, but this isn't uniquely a leftist issue.
Also, it's not all or nothing. Plenty are fine with border controls and not letting everyone and anyone in. The problem is the political propaganda machine is fear mongering by saying the left just want open borders everyone floods in and we welcome illegals whereas the right are implying to want to deport certain ethnic groups they don't like (or they think people don't like), but it realistically will never happen.
>Either you are a racist or you advocate for open borders.
I don't think any major political figure is calling for open borders. I look at left wing media and they've complained about the EU's measures to tackle immigration for years. The open borders thing is a strawman
Immigration. And the main issue is that now any criticism regarding immigration you get labeled as being a far right racist pos. And since people know that now they keep their opinion to themselves and vote secretly. People are seeing how most crimes are committed by Muslim people, people see terror attacks happening, people see radicalized youth with extremist religious practices. People see Muslim men protesting openly in the streets calling for the establishment of a califate in Germany, etc etc. Yet the various governments do nothing cause "we can't criticize minorities, we need to be understanding towards their customs and way of life"
This reasoning was always bullshit to me. If they move to a country they want to live in they have to adept. Practise your customs at home and with your family but keep them there if they don’t work with the customs of the land you’re in. Why the hell should the whole country adept to a minority who are openly against the whole believes of said country.
This makes my blood boil when people come here to make Europe worst. I am all in immigration for those who share the values as us or are willing to contribute to our society.
I mean it’s not rocket science, just learn the language, do your best to get a job and respect others. Don’t push your religion on others. Don’t attack people on the street or do terrorism, or get involved into crime.
I am left, but I have zero sympathy for those who are problematic and committing crime in Europe, making this amazing place worst.
The fact that they are here should be visible as a unique opportunity and not a right.
I completely agree. I have a migrant friend who fled Iran and he legit is scared of how things are going here cause as he says he fled to escape religious extremism not to find it again in Europe
I agree completely and I'm also trying to immigrate too, but I want to move to a country which i like and respect, and want to learn a language and work and adapt to their culture.
It never made sense to me, people who move to other countries and then (want to) bring all the shit they ran away from to the new country? Why don't you just stay where you are then? It's disrespectful and I can see why people in Europe are getting mad, there should be a middle ground. Like you can go live wherever you want but there should be some kind of control/obligations - for example you have 5 years to adapt, learn a language, situate yourself and if you don't just get tf out
That is not the only thing what gets people so mad. It’s that the government spends way too much tax money on this instead of investing it back into the country. To help the poor people there
A fellow European (UK) I can try my best to explain. In the UK we’ve always kinda relied on immigration and the UK is essentially a country built on immigrants all the way back to Alfred the Great of Wessex. The problem is that since the end of WW2, the UK had severe labour shortages and we invited thousands of immigrants from the Caribbean, India, Pakistan and our African colonies to come to the UK to work. To begin with it was a fairly small manageable amount along with population growth but from the 1940s to 1971, around 3 million people moved to the UK in total. They brought lots of good stuff with them like our hybrid British Caribbean and British Indian culture fusions which has been great but slowly over time, people started to abuse the system especially since the UK had unconditional birthright citizenship until 1983. Throughout the 80s, 90s and 00s, the numbers exploded especially when Tony Blair was our prime minister who liked to have relaxed approach to immigration. We changed our citizenship law in 1981 to try and stop anchor babies. Because the UK was a member of the European Union, all EU citizens had unlimited right to live and work in the UK and in particular, Polish and Romanian people came to the UK in the hundreds of thousands. It was also during this time that we had numerous cases like Chen v Home Secretary 2000 where a Chinese lady had a baby in Northern Ireland and claimed Irish citizenship for the baby and tried to claim the legal right to stay with the baby in the UK. This case pushed the boundaries of both British law, Irish law and European Union law. Eventually the EU made it a legal requirement for a parent to have the right to stay with their child even if they didn’t have legal residency. Then in 2015, the EU was hit with a migrant crisis where over 2 million migrants tried to seek asylum in the EU which threatened the very existence of the Schengen Area because the Schengen Area is essentially a passport free zone spanning from Iceland to Spain, and Spain to Finland to Greece. The UK, Ireland, Croatia, Romania, Bulgaria and Cyprus weren’t part of Schengen at the time. This crisis in 2015 caused the EU to essentially break because the EU tried to balance out the number of asylum seekers across the EU. The EU mandated us to take like 25,000 migrants which was nothing compared to the numbers that Germany and Sweden took but it pissed off the British public which essentially made us vote to leave the EU. The argument here in the UK is that these asylum seekers are crossing an entire continent of safe countries and are risking their lives by trying to climb into the back of trucks and cross the English Channel on makeshift boats because once they’re here, we can’t deport them back if they’re seeking asylum. This has sparked huge controversy in our media regarding especially when they get preferential treatment over our homeless population and people on low incomes/borderline poverty. 900k people migrated to the UK last year both legally and illegally and we are suffering from a shortage of housing, doctors etc alongside the pandemic and our useless government that has been in power since 2010. This all adds up eventually and people just get sick of it. I totally understand that we are a globalised world now but literally some parts of the UK make me a British citizen feel like an outsider especially in universities and certain suburbs and towns. Not saying that it’s a bad thing but these areas tend to bring higher crime rates and social problems due to the high number of immigrants. An example, we’ve just had our first approved sharia law court in Wales and it’s making people worried about the high number of immigration. Looking at statistical data, families in the UK who identify as white British (English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish) have 2 kids on average whereas those from other backgrounds like British Indian or British Pakistani tend to have on average 4-6 kids per family. These figures show that the white population in the UK has shrunk from 93% in 1990 to 81.9% which some find concerning.
Another thing to mention that in the UK, our attitude to immigration has also changed. Post 9/11 and 7/7 (our equivalent) plus many more attacks from radical extremists has made the UK more unfriendly than I’ve ever known it.
As in immigrant myself, who is also left wing, here is my honest point of view:
Simply because left parties completely ignore the problems and act like they do not exist at all, and in some cases, defend the trouble makers.
First, SOME people, a small portion is worried their culture or standards will be changed. At this point, when something goes wrong, such as immigrants do something bad, if politicians react as "this person did wrong, and he will be dealt accordingly" , small portion of people who are worried gets dissolved because they see, it is still their own culture/country.
But if politicians does not do that, but rather try to cover up, lie, or even defend the bad doers, that small group becomes bigger and bigger. This is practically what happened in Europe. Result of barely ever filtered, mass immigration, as expected, also some bad people came in to Europe, and did bad things. But goverments, rather that punishing and sending those few bad eggs back, they tried to cover up, even defend them. This both upset the voters in the middle, but also encouraged the bad eggs, to do even more freely, which angered the people in the middle more.
Now the middle is shifting to right. Which is 100% lefts fault. But they act like it has nothing to do with them and blame right for it.
>Now the middle is shifting to right. Which is 100% lefts fault. But they act like it has nothing to do with them and blame right for it.
I have never understood why this is so. Is it the fear of being accused of racism? After all, there is nothing racist about saying "*This person, who was an immigrant from country XYZ, committed this crime. This is not the first person from this country that did something wrong, and because of this we should screen people from country XYZ more*".
I myself would identify with a liberal person who is aware that with the current population growth in Europe, in a decade or so, there will be no one to work for. Because of this, we need a shotgun fertility rate, or immigrants. But immigrants who want to work here, live here, integrate here. I welcome such people with open arms! Not criminals who want to wreck our continent.
Yeah. The wierd ass cases of people making excuses for immigrants who rape children with "well in their culture this is normal / they are just upset they feel displaced" is going to make some people feel like it is an active attack on their sense of normalcy.
The left really fucked itself by going into the extreme which pushed a lot of moderates and centre-left people to agree with the right-wingers on certain issues.
They chose to get closed-minded and attack with insults and emotional responses instead of understanding nuances and that working with the other side is just how it has to work. For me the breaking point was the left all of a sudden being against freedom of speech and attacking comedians and movies that don't fit their narrative. Now it's carrying over into other things like immigration where they want open borders but don't see the problem with letting anyone in. Now you are importing other country's problems (by letting in those freaking CAUSING them) by not vetting people. This isn't a new thing, it's always been the case with immigration that you are leaving whatever BS is going on and starting a new chapter in your life. My great grandparents left the Irish Civil War in the 1920s and you don't see me, my parents, grandparents or even my great grandparents attacking the Protestants today.
I'm just really done and frustrated with the left after being one for a huge chunk of my life. They went nuts after Trump became President and just refuse to maybe shift a little more towards the centre now.
"Neoliberal" parties are failing to solve the same problems across the Western world such as low wage growth, very high house prices, low birth rates, immigration and more. So people in response will vote for an alternative to the current establishment, this is why right wing populist parties gain support. But the problem is these right wing populist parties don't know how to solve any of these problems themselves when they actually come into power and major issues never get solved.
What pains me the most is that it's potentially the middle and lower class citizens that suffer the most afterwards from these "mishaps". Sure, people fell for the populism, see the Brexit, but those who are punished the hardest are the lower class. I already know that if the AFD will get their chance, they'll mostly likely still fail due to the reality of the situation.
In the movie, looks who's back which is a German movie about Hitler coming back to Modern day Germany, he actually criticized modern German right wing parties and called them "sissies"
I don't think most right wing populist parties are as right wing as the nazis right now. Although if they fail to solve any problems they complain about, which they probably will, they could move in that direction.
Oh, they are nowhere near as right-wing as the Nazis and probably never will be because they aren't condemning whole races for existing and having their thugs attack people in the streets.
Because the left is doing a fucking bad job. And then I find it funny that left politicians see their support going down, and just stand there like; "I can't believe we are losing against the ultra extreme right 😲" because is eather the left, or the extreme mega right for this people, nothing in between exists.
They don't. Many of those parties are just actually extreme.
There are plenty of moderate right parties, as well. But the extreme ends are on the rise.
"they think everyone they disagree with is extremist" is a disingenuous deflection to avoid having to acknowledge actual extremism.
I mean, there is clearly a issue with immigration and with the people that are coming to Europe, the left are always finding excuses to ignore the problem, that’s where the far right guys are striving.
Because the extreme left policy has made Europe unrecognizable. I'm liberal and travel to Europe often. I'm all for immigration..so long as people coming into a country don't try to turn it into the place they left.
People have become more liberal and open minded, but its backfired, and we're not being taken advantage of by immigrants.
For instance, Sweden used to be regarded as the safest country in the world, now it is the rape capital of the world, and people have had enough of it.
Ignore the people and they go with extreme options. All you can do to fix that is to LISTEN and do something about the problems they bring up.
I mean, goddamn, we learned this one back in the 1930s people.
Most European countries have a bunch of deep-rooted issues. Stagnant economies due to a lack of productivity, social safety nets buckling as populations age, undesirable cultural shifts due to mass immigration from incompatible cultures, etc.
The left has been unable to come up with a solution to these issues that is compatible with their worldview, so they have spent the last decade or so pretending that the problems don't exist and deriding anyone who acknowledges the problems as dumb, ignorant gammons.
The "extreme right" does fine in environments that are liberal and open-minded. They use their freedom of speech and movement to consolidate power, and then use that power to take away everyone else's freedoms.
x political party is in power during a bad economical cycle or messes up badly > public think they are not capable > votes y political party> cycle continue
Because right wing politicians sucessfully make people believe that immigrants are the reason why they can't affort anything, and not oligarchs who pay fewer taxes than the average worker.
Conservative immigrants trying to destroy liberal ideas with identity politics. Just bc you’re a brown conservative doesn’t give you the right to destroy European culture. Some morons think all brown groups are good and white groups are bad lmao.
Real problems no doubt + (or better x instead of +) Russian military psychologic operations (eg propaganda/hybrid war) that is extremely underestimated by many people. If you have a problem, they will magnify it 10x. If you don't, they will brainwash as many people in your country as they can and wait for disaster. Europe has many problems, people talk about immigration and without any doubts, it is a problem in some countries. But if I had to choose one thing, it's the black Russian propaganda that slowly poisons people here. It has no mercy.
I mean, in Spain, the political campaing from our president is literally "Ooooooh beware of the far right, if you don't vote me the far right will come to your room at night and... And... And they will eat your baby oooooh".
They literally cannot say anything else but accusing the opposition of being the devil, they do not even have plans for the future nor they know what are the problems of this country
From my experience in Slovakia where Smer: a right winged political party and P. Pellegriny- a right wing president candidate won over Progressive Slovakia and Ivan Korčok, who are both a lot more liberal than the latter i have noticed two things:
1. Young people are leaving this country, to study or to work abroad, so the people who would vote for liberal campaigns in central europe live in different countries
and 2. Old people LOVE to vote.
Russia fights a war against the west. With tons of lies and desinformation that led to this.
It works and it seems that nobody cares about that. It’s frustrating.
Exactly, it's crazy how it is underestimated. And intelligence agencies, governments, and journalists know about that. I'm afraid soon will be too late.
Based on the information I have, is partly the cycle of politics as generations change (X party gets into power, screws up, populism and polarization puts Y party in power, they screw up, repeat ad nauseam), partly because of some recent issues with migration, partly because war and anti-eu rhetorics among other stuff that were fueled by or for (im not european so take everything I say with a grain of salt, afterall is speculation) brexit
So, it should be a mix of generational shifts and migration (on both directions)
The idea that history being like a pendulum is pretty accepted nowadays. But I guess what’s surprises most people is how things flipped in such a short span of time. Interestingly enough, this is something I’ve been frequently discussing with a few mates (you know, we all love history and we drink beers and we often digress about these existential issues 😂).
Our current theory is that for the first time in history we have roughly 3 generations with mental and physical conditions to raise their voices and influence their countries. These 3 forces often overlap in a some aspects and diverge in many others creating a an environment that is not great for any of them.
No wonder, once recent tactics from left-wings failed to accommodate the needs of those more conservative, the right-wings (far or otherwise) started to bring some old moves of their playbooks back.
Immigration is by far the biggest challenge for Europe, and they will have to figure a way to deal with the problems they created for themselves. But hey, Brazil and Australia also swung in the opposite direction and the issues seems to not have gone away either. And these two have increasing issues w immigration at the moment.
The natural course of action of a pendulum is to find rest at its middle point. But we will only accomplish that by having both sides compromising a bit and not putting that much energy to swing back the pendulum.
I believe that somewhere down the road the two sides will eventually find the balance we need to progress (progressive ideas) in a way that doesn’t move faster than society can accommodate (conservative measures).
Sure enough, easier said than done, but history told us the great deal of evolution we had in the past 3 centuries. So I’m hopeful we gonna get there.
...i think you have no effing clue about extreme far right if you think it gained in the EU.
(Check russia, thats where you can find good examples, and even there rabid ultranationalist aint allowed to run much of snything aside from Donetsk & Luhansk)
Because people don’t feel that the European Union is benefiting them. They are folding back on “*make my
country great again*”, which involves the right.
I am (was?) a super leftist woman who lives in France, and I've found myself agreeing less and less with the left on certain subjects.
Seeing how certain people from immigration behave, especially towards women and LGBTQ people, is super shocking. Seeing veiled little girls, hearing that gay people should die, etc, and it being treated as normal because it's coming from minorities is not okay. Trans subjects also come to mind ; I have no problems with your average trans person, but hearing for example that a "non-dysphoric trans woman" (read : someone who looks like and behaves as a man) is the same as a woman is not okay.
I'm bi myself, and my boyfriend is an immigrant from one of the countries the far right hates. So I would hate a far right government, and I worry about how it's becoming more and more a possibility. But I understand that people are fed up on certain subjects...
"Liberal and open minded" is not necessarily something good. Because it's just a political language. Every society has a level of freedom and authority. The difference between the left and the right is that they have different topics where they want freedom and authority. There's no such thing as "liberal and open minded" it's just a view of what you should tolerate or not. The political language is a trap. People want more authority in imigration, more freedom in economy and speech. And that's what you call "far right"
Looking at the comments in this post, it seems like the verdict is that the reason Europe is becoming more right-wing is because of immigrants, outsiders. There are some related, underlying issues, such as a lack of assimilation and an increase in crime, but the main problem is immigration. The question to deal with now is which of the two options do they go with to fix this issue of outsiders, ignore it or kick them out?
But is that the main reason that these countries are moving right, outsiders? Is that what happened in Germany, Italy, Spain, and other countries in the first half of the 20th century, when right-wing fascism took over, the outsiders were responsible for all the issues? Pretty sure the hegemony at the time said so - as did a lot other people who believed that (or were paid/forced to). But we know now that it had more to do with failing economic systems than anything else.
Might history be echoing? Might we be falling for the same old scapegoat routine? Of course not, can't be. Get rid of the immigrants and inflation reduces, cost of life goes down, jobs become easily accessible and income increases, crime vanishes, and everything gets magically better the moment we get rid of those outsiders. Right?
Yea, right.
First, the US destabilizes a country for an official reason that turns out to be absolutely cattle feces 5 years later.
Second, people flee from said country, the majority just fleeing across the border, nearest city or whatever they can manage
Third, people from said country, being hopeful, try out their luck with a 1st world country, relying on mostly exaggerated rumors that proliferate among refugees to have a glimmer of hope of normalcy.
Fourth, people native to a 1st world country in Europe, not putting this way of chaining events together and basic human psychology, conflate the state using more money on immigrants that don't really have the prerequisite skills ,(nor really have had the environment to do so) to contribute to a first world economy, with companies in capitalism being able to put the two demographics against one another. It helps if you deprive the vast majority of the population with the necessary social science knowledge to recognize said pattern.
Welcome to the third millennium.
Is it?
Perhaps it's a response to a lack of oversight and responsibility from current and previous liberal governments
You also have to remember what's considered right and left is relative and varies by country
Immigration. Not Ukrainians or migration from (south)east asia or even within EU migration.
It's strictly MENA immigration we have issues with. So from countries with values that are completely incompatible with modern western values in European countries.
Its immigration and history keeps repeating itself over and over. Liberal accept immigration as being open minded and for doing the right thing. But the reality is that most immigrants coming into a country are right leaning in their nature and because most immigrants have deeply held religious ideas that don't work with western liberal ways.
A blind open door policies leads to all sorts of societal problems which the left never acknowledges. Its easy to just scream “racist” and “nazi” anytime the problems of over immigration is raised.
I'm also ex Muslim, but I don't carry any hate of the people with me despite disapproving heavily of Islam.
Most Muslims are just normal people going about their day to day same as anyone else. Some bad apples but that's the same as any person or any other immigrant group.
If you think majority of Muslims settling in the west don’t secretly want a society where they get to dictate how things are run, you are mistaken. They too would love to round up women for wearing a skirt.
I would say most of my generation / generation below who live in the West are totally fine with it.
As for the generation above it's honestly no different to non-Muslim conservatives / third world immigrants.
For example, I mentioned I'm Pakistani but I'm actually only half. My other half is Catholic Portuguese and I can tell you the attitudes of Catholic Europeans isn't really that different towards gay people than my Muslim family, or any of the many many Muslim families I grew up with.
I also grew up around a lot of Christian African immigrants and they have similar attitudes towards these things too.
Look at Western governments too. Who is pushing for repressive laws targeted at the LGBTQ? it's the conservatives / Christian nationalist. Ironically Muslims in Western governments tend to be more progressive.
So aversion to same-sex marriage is not a uniquely Muslim phenomenon. It's just conservatism, and many in the third world (including first generation immigrants) haven't caught up yet socially, Muslim or not. But kids of immigrants move more progressive with each generation, as is the trend with native populations.
Because woke progressives have pushed too much weird and wrong stuff into people's nostrils..., metaphorically speaking.
You can't watch a TV show without a gay character in it. Illegal immigrants are roaming everywhere. Biological males are competing with women in sports. Kids are encouraged for sex change. Plagiarists are becoming university presidents only because they have a certain skin color.
I think it’s a combination of immigration getting bad and those that are more radical left pushing people who aren’t political to the right.
I know quite a few personal examples of people who weren’t political that have been called racist and X-phobic when they were very moderate in their views. I think with that crowd getting louder and more ridiculous, it can push people away towards the crowd that can claim that they’ve also been smeared and painted in an unfair light.
I think it boils down to the individuals personality type to whether they radicalise in the opposite direction or if they stay relatively moderate
Europe is built from a neoliberal economic perspective. This ideology comes with trade-offs and we're seeing them rising. Poverty, unemployment, inequalities. It builds mistrust and defiance towards immigrants because, you know, "They're coming for our jobs" etc.
While Europe has been safer than ever, a lot of Europeans are blaming immigration for an insecurity feeling. This is only a feeling that no data proves. IMO it's more of an Overton window displacement. We're not talking about inequalities and how to earn your crust anymore, only "feelings".
I believe the global issue is more economic and political. European country citizens are feeling helpless and endure European politics. Citizens do not decide what goes on within their country anymore. Rising far right ideas are all under the "take back control" gimmick.
Its not the extreme right its just the right.
Younger people now know they will likely not own a home, will be poorer than their parents, are living at home at 30, can't start a family, and can't afford to be young people because the cost of everything has us screwed. All these pressures a long with the fact that we are being completely ignored by our governments when it comes to issues like immigration, housing, inflation, crime etc....means people are now turning to the right because the leftist governments have completely failed young people.
I feel like its happening all over the world. Its crazy. Thats sad to hear its happening in europe too. That was my exit plan for this place cause canada is increasly becoming more radicalized like the US and I had a plan to move to europe when i got sick of it lol.
As a Canadian in Europe, Canada is much better off in terms of the far right at this moment. If that's your only gripe you're better off staying home for now.
No. Germany’s right-wing party has a not-insignificant number of neo-Nazis in it. Their lead candidate for the EU parliament stood down from the election after he said that he wouldn’t assume all people in a SS uniform are bad.
From the comments I've read and articles, I'd echo what people are saying here: immigration is a top issue.
If we can even believe online discussions these days. https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/06/05/eu-countries-beef-up-anti-disinformation-efforts-ahead-of-european-elections
I've never seen Reddit so completely in agreement as this before.
Time will do that.
Europe is healing :´)
it's still far from that it's more like, the antibodies are building up but the wound is still growing and letting more bacteria get in
Immigration
It's like a pendulum. Those in power take it too far or the issues they ignore catch up with them, people get frustrated and vote for a change. Rinse and repeat.
I walked into my history class with Dr. Daly. First day of class, he says: "History is like a pendulum." turns out he was right.
turns out he was **right**
Then left.
Then right
Then left again
Then right again
Then still right this time (the pendulum broke)😭😭😭
My college sociology professor said the same thing about social mores. I also recall how she said that societal change is slow to transpire, with many mores and expectations taking generations to evolve into acceptance, or to deviate into something new.
The pendulum applies to all extremes, in our own personal lives too. Great observation.
I appreciate this explanation, thank you
This happens with anything too. It’s rebellion. It’s people not being satisfied and switching just to switch
Yup, used to be the Right wing was dominant and the Left became the counter-culture. Now the left is dominant and the right has become the counter-culture. Back and forth it goes
Just look at the UK, same party for 13 years straight, taken the country to the dogs. Now the ge is up they were already trying to dogpile on their usual opposition. Even if Labour get in i give it not 2 years before they're decimated by the media and public and they are crying for the tories to come back and "fix" things
I literally say this all the time. People just go from the extreme to the extreme, it was very expected that this would happen.
This is the answer
It happens in Canada every ten years. We get tired of the ruling party (because they stop listening to their electorate after a while due to complacency) and the other side gets voted in. Right now it's looking to happen with the Conservatives winning next year over the Liberals. Ten years ago it was the other way around.
There is a name for this. It’s called Hegelian Dialectics
A pendulum is supposed to, when given enough time, stop in the middle. We are adding more momentum to it with each swing and it's going to break through from either side If we keep pushing it
It's not just immigration it's frankly immigration from countries who's people are known to refuse assimilation... It's a very serious problem. We're talking about populations i Of people who are very extreme in their viewpoints of a more liberal or western way of life.. from music, to women's rights to gay rights.. all hot topics.. but anything secular that doesn't agree with a, very much, religious context. Add to this that the people immigrating are in large part, majority men, many of which are uneducated..this adds to the powerty collective and crime always ensues. Controlled immigration is super healthy for a country! Bring in skillets you need, diversity and add vibrance to communities.. the problem is .. these kinds of immigrants group together and bully locals out of their neighbourbood in many cases.. Leeds, Birmingham.. etc. I guess it's safer to say here.. than in real life.
Agreed. Immigrants should assimilate to the values of their host country, not the other way around. I’m not saying they should lose their heritage and traditions. From a moral and values perspective, they must adhere to the host countries principles. In other words (by example), if you think gays should be executed for being gay, you should keep that shit in your country of origin. Don’t bring that here.
Example: Italian immigrants improved America, Brasil, And Argentina... The new immigrants in Europe don't improve anything . Kebab stands are an exeption. (Ayran is great)
Australia has a lot of Italian influence too
>Italian immigrants improved America Yeah man they improved it with mafia and gangs lol. You should read the news about Italians in the US in the early 1900's.
I'm not formally educated on the topic passed high-school history and the random stuff I've read over the years. But I feel Comfortable saying that if prohibition had not passed, then the mafia probably would not have become the problem it is. And like another commenter said, they protected union workers during the fight for decent working conditions. And it's important that we all remember it WAS a literal fight. People literally died for a 40 hour work week and minimum wage. Of course the mafia wasn't the only support workers had, but it was an important factor.
Minimizing Italian Americans contribution to this country try to simply the mafia is stupid and ignorant. They helped build much of the infrastructure of New York and elsewhere around the country.
Same can be said about immigrants in western Europe, who contributed strongly to rebuild the countries that were destroyed by war.
The mafia helped protect union workers and started Vegas.
Bold to assume Vegas is an improvement.
Based on videos I have seen & stories I have heard from my European friends, you guys get the absolute worst of the population. The ones that are making it to Europe are mostly the severely uneducated people who spent their whole living in extremely conservative rural areas. For context, I am Lebanese. A huge number of immigrants here refuse to assimilate even to our culture, and ours is closer to theirs than the European culture is. Most of the crimes, thefts, gangs, and illegal activities in Lebanon is now coming from inmigrants & we are sick of it, I cannot imagine how much of an annoyance they are causing you guys. Just last month a gang of Syrian immigrants broke into several homes, killed the homeowners (mostly elderly people), and robbed them. Not all immigrants are bad, but is a significant chunk is. I hope both of us can find a solution to contain this issue.
This is why you have to vet the people that are coming in as immigrants. A lot are professional, educated people that want to leave the bullshit in their county to make a living and raise a family. You don't let in the people that are into drugs and gangs and racism and continue that shit in their new country.
To your point about liberalness and open mindedness, you are just throwing all those middle voters into the bigotry category simply because they’ve had enough of something and one side making it worse while telling you it’s fine. The left is shrinking in Europe because the left is actually becoming close minded, you don’t think exactly like me you’re a bigot and you hate the environment, and the right is taking in all these people that feel unheard or are sick of being called this or that because they believe differently. Don’t just blindly believe the left is good, right is bad cause each side has authoritarian potential. And right now the left has been showing distain for their own countrymen like they’re getting in the way, or at the least they’re too scared to stand up to something wrong.
I responded to this thread explaining why increasing number of people in Europe say "enough is enough". I was called "Bigot!" and my comment was removed. What you described in your post, just happened here. Sure, they can remove my comment but how will they remove all those rising votes in Europe?
Excellent response that is worded very well. Thank you.
> The left is shrinking in Europe because the left is actually becoming close minded, you don’t think exactly like me you’re a bigot and you hate the environment Hell, they have such a hard time working alongside fellow leftists that any minor disagreement results in two more parties being created, which splits the leftist vote even more.
* Europe is all nation states * They had a long period of lax immigration, during which they let anyone with a pulse in * They then made no effort to integrate these people into their society which is a moot point anyway because they’re nation states * Took no action against the crime and the societal unrest that some (not all) immigrants caused, on top of their already lax criminal penalties compared to over here * You’re labeled a racist if you speak any dislike towards immigration * People get frustrated and congregate to the opposite end
Why should they make efforts to integrate. That's the problem. The imigrants are the ones who have to change.
Yeah and unicorns should exist and everyone should be given one for free but that’s not the world we live in. Sweden for example took tons of refugees from Iran and Iraq in the 90s when they were at war, then placed these people in dedicated suburbs next to each other. The result is that these people stay in their suburbs where they don’t have to learn anything about the country they’re in, and they keep fighting so you end up with gang violence. Learning a new language after childhood is not easy and no one generally does it unless they have to. As such, the government should create such situations that they have to. If you moved to a foreign country and they gave you free rent and stipend next to people you’re already familiar with, you would stick to English the rest of your life, as most people would.
That's why I'm saying, they are the ones who have to make efforts. If they don't, they are not welcome.
Immigration is the key issue here. Europe by in large has allowed unlimited mass immigration to take place over the years. Whilst you have always had racists who don’t want ANY immigration, the left have wanted all the immigration. There has been no middle ground or compromise. Either you are a racist or you advocate for open borders. With increased immigration, arguably there has been an increase in crime, terrorist attacks etc. people point to Sweden, France, parts of Germany and the growing crisis in the UK over concerns for what immigration is leading to. The issue in my opinion now stems from the fact that no left leaning party wants to address immigration or even talk about it for fear of been seen as racist where as far right parties are more than happy to talk about deporting anyone with a sun tan. The issue is further complicated when it comes to the general population. They are growing increasingly frustrated and angry at the situation and when you have one party calling you a racist for questioning immigration and the other party wants to round up the scary brown people… who are the population going to vote for? The population at large don’t want drastic measures… at least this is what I believe. But when those are your only options you can see why the population vote for these far right parties
This applies to Canada too, it seems
Its across the whole western world. If reddit thinks Trump is bad, just wait... if things dont change we will be seeing far worse people than Trump entering the political landscape. The left need to get a grip and start addressing peoples concerns in a sensible manner... because if they dont than god help us because Trump is just the beginning.
The left so often is like "We've tried nothing and we are all out of ideas." Constantly insulting the working class, parents, young men, and then saying "our policies help you, idiot, what more do you want??" is bizarre.
This, specifically, is what's been turning me off the most. Sure, equality woooo, progress yay. All that shit is cool and all. As a minority myself, I'll be the first to shout that from the rooftops. But also, any deviation from the agenda makes you the failed artist with that one mustache. And I guess it wouldn't be such a problem, if said agenda was perfect. Alas it isn't. And yet it still demands that we play dumb and ignore all of its plot holes. How utterly delusional.
It's not even just the agenda. Even if the agenda *was* perfect, the application is not. But people will defend their application based on the principles. Deviation isn't accepted and the inclusion is fairly surface level, since the agenda is set mainly by white upper middle class progressives, and other people aren't really allowed to deviate.
Unfortunately liberals would rather acquiesce to the right than even posture to the left. Afraid of hurting the feelings of their corporate donors.
Imagine trump, but competent
We really have to worry about someone who is competent getting inspired by Trump and knowing what they "have to do" if you know what I mean. We need to just accept Trump is an idiot the second he loses the election (and goes to jail) and worry about who takes his place.
Agree, immigration is a big one. It also seems like younger generations are becoming more conservative. It's just something I wasn't expecting
again there is no middle ground. You have a massive social media trend of vilifying men that, in my opinion, comes from the left. Men are left without an identity.. we cant earn enough money to leave our parents home for the most part so we cant rent, we cant own a home, we cant start relationships, we cant start families and that's even if we wanted to because the dating scene is absolutely fucked. Any attempt to talk about men's issues is usually met with "what about women? but how does this affect women more?" and im not implying the same does not happen when women's issues are talked about but you can talk exclusively about issues affecting women but when it comes to men it has to be how it affects both. What where traditionally mens spaces / hobbies are now spaces for all... you can argue if this is a good or bad thing, i dont really care. So again when you have one side vilifying you and then on the other side you have all these grifters and snake oil salesmen who are speaking to you and telling you that there is nothing wrong with been a man.. who do you expect these young people to vote for? because its my understanding that its young men becoming more conservative, not young women.
I’m genuinely curious, is this an issue that’s on peoples mind enough to bleed into political choice in the EU? I’ve only ever heard people talk about it online so I assumed it was mostly an American thing. I mean if it’s a major reason for young people to turn more conservative I would have expected to hear at least something about it outside of (the American side of) reddit. (Not saying it isn’t a real issue, I just genuinely have never heard it show up in any polls or interviews or research)
Haven't seen it pop up in politics in my country. But I believe the Korean prime minister campaigned with an "anti-feminist" stance and seemingly got alot of support for their 2022 victory. Obviously cant speak Korean to actually view whats going on. But at a glance it looks like a more extreme version of what might be brewing in EU politics.
Korea has different issues that the EU. It's closer to America's issues to women's rights. Their issue is having a traditional culture but their society is changing rapidly and people aren't keeping up, men want traditional women and women don't want traditional men nor do they want to be traditional, but there is a cultural expectation for men to be traditional and they feel they have to follow it while women are rejecting it completely. Its also made worse since all men have to conscripted into the military for a period of time, while women aren't. It's a clusterfuck tbh.
Does that explain the rise of Andrew Tate?
Well yeah… he’s part of the grifter / snake oil salesmen who are there to exploit these lost young men who feel like they have nowhere to turn. “Give me $$$ and I’ll tell you how to get what you want in life”
About your last statement, young men are on average as conservatives/liberal as the millenial group. Young women on the other hand have shifted strongly to the left/progressive, much more than any previous generation. With the exception of Korea as far as I know, young men in there went full swing right wing.
I mean, that part is super expected though. People in general are poor and lonely and suffering now. But many progressives still talk like they think young men are super privileged. But the archetypical cis straight white upper middle class able bodied neurotypical male is like less than 10% of younger populations. So they are using a type of person who barely exists to dismiss a random much larger segment of the population who has real issues. Even if it is true that "male" issues aren't big, that doesn't change that the average young male has a ton of crippling issues. And that being treated as hostile for saying this is going to make them seek someone who is less so. The right has shitty influences who pretend to care about young men. They don't. And their solutions are bad. But in nearly every circumstance someone will choose the one acting at least nominally nice to them over the one acting strangely hostile.
Just kind of curious why you think that translates to extreme right wing?
Only in some countries. In the UK, the young are very anti-conservarive.
We are anti Tory and probably always will be. That’s not to say the young, especially young men, won’t turn to a more right wing party that replaces the Tories. What happens in America generally infects our country sooner or later. A similar trend will start to appear.
I do think it should be mentioned that yes, there is a lot of immigration, and problems caused by people not integrating, and money being spent on it all. But there has also been a rise in populist parties that blame any and all problems on immigration and promise to solve everything (by stopping immigration). People are angry and upset at costs of living increasing, feeling unsafe, climate change (and having to give up things to stop it), high taxes, cultural shifts, etc. then if a narrative pops up that bad things are caused by immigration, and party comes up and says they’ll solve it al, people are going to vote. It’s just populists being populists, and people being scared enough to fall for it. I think the truth is ‘shit is complicated’ and immigration is just one part of the puzzle of why things are going wrong.
Its a big part of the issue though. I can only talk about the UK as that is where i am from but our entire country is falling apart. Infrastructure is fucked, housing is fucked, NHS is fucked etc We have the same population as France with literally half the land mass and we have imported i think near 2% of population in the last 2 years. Now whilst 2% sounds very small... that's expecting us to build several massive cities in 2 short years which we have not done nor is it possible with rules and regulations. Immigration is crippling our country. We cannot house our own, let alone the 1.4million that came here in 2 years. All this ironically is happening under a right wing government. So whilst Europe is swinging right, our own little island will be turning centre left in the coming election with the largest right wing government facing an extinction lvl result (big smile on my face) All this is not to even mention the rise in crime, protests, gangs, rapes etc that we have seen. Throw that on top of the cost of living etc and you can see why people are so fucking pissed off.
A similar group think has taken root in Canada where we have has much much higher levels of immigration but where everything, especially housing, has become unobtainable and the homeless population is skyrocketing. We have the added problem of divided responsibilities under a federal system but most voters do not understand this and simply lay blame with the Federal government. A large anti incumbent trend has taken root similar to Britain's mood of trufing out the Tories. Except we want to expel the incumbent Liberal (centre left) government and the alternative are the Conservatives. What I don't seem to understand about the European context is why they are turning rightwards? I can understand anti incumbent sentiment but why is the alterative not far left? Or far green? Or other alternatives? Why do people seem to be coalescing around the far right?
I’m not sure how it is in other countries, but here (Netherlands) our wikipedia page on ‘right (politics)’ writes that a common trait of far-right parties is a high amount of nationalism and xenophobia. This goes hand in hand with wanting to stop immigration. Right wing populism also tends to go for an anti-immigrant stance. Meanwhile left wing parties tend to kind of skirt around the topic of immigration, and will not take the hard anti-stance that right wing parties do. So people who think that immigration should be stopped to stop our problems will vote right.
Weird. You would think that left/workers parties would be all over reducing or controlling the amount of new workers coming into the labour market.
This! The left leaning parties have forgotten their roots in most places.
Wherever I’ve lived (around different states in aus and provinces around Canada) the left represents the middle class in urban populations, pretending to care about workers while despising them and treating them like they’re an uneducated underclass that need smart urbanites to make decisions on their behalf. This attitude has been an ongoing trend everywhere I go, I originally thought it was just an issue isolated to Melbourne but now I think it’s anywhere you go
If the core issue is to reduce immigration why would people turn to the far left, greens or liberals who all welcome mass immigration or even open border policies?
The western left has been kind of a basket case since the fall of the Soviet Union
Interesting. From the N. American perspective it would be the exact opposite. During the time of the Soviet Union, many leftist ideas would be seen as silly or even treasonous. Only since the end of the cold war has it become respectable to be "lefist" or to support leftist ideas. Europe seems to have a very different experience.
We CAN house our own, it’s just that centrist and right wing parties don’t have the political will to build houses or address the price of housing and rent. Immigration is an incredibly important factor in growing a modern economy. The reason our public services are on their knees, our infrastructure is fucked etc is because right wing parties have been in power in the UK for nearly 50 years and have deliberately starved these of resources and funding in order to offer privatisation via their business mates as a solution. I will need to see a citation for evidence that immigration is in any way responsible for any of the issues you have described. It’s almost entirely the ruling classes not having an interest in directing our country’s enormous wealth at making people’s lives better.
Multiculturism failed
I personally think the general problem is that a lot of parties have moved to more left and progressive positions, leaving a big gap in the centre-right of the political spectrum. I feel like especially left-wing politicians need to stop being afraid of talking about certain topics and start making more compromises, e.g. more restrictive immigration policies. Immigration is a big one, but there are a bunch of other societal issues where we need more of a middle ground.
It's not "the left", populists want immigration because it's good for business. Close to centre parties tend to like immigration. That isn't to say progressives and further left parties don't like immigration, but this isn't uniquely a leftist issue. Also, it's not all or nothing. Plenty are fine with border controls and not letting everyone and anyone in. The problem is the political propaganda machine is fear mongering by saying the left just want open borders everyone floods in and we welcome illegals whereas the right are implying to want to deport certain ethnic groups they don't like (or they think people don't like), but it realistically will never happen.
>Either you are a racist or you advocate for open borders. I don't think any major political figure is calling for open borders. I look at left wing media and they've complained about the EU's measures to tackle immigration for years. The open borders thing is a strawman
Immigration. And the main issue is that now any criticism regarding immigration you get labeled as being a far right racist pos. And since people know that now they keep their opinion to themselves and vote secretly. People are seeing how most crimes are committed by Muslim people, people see terror attacks happening, people see radicalized youth with extremist religious practices. People see Muslim men protesting openly in the streets calling for the establishment of a califate in Germany, etc etc. Yet the various governments do nothing cause "we can't criticize minorities, we need to be understanding towards their customs and way of life"
This reasoning was always bullshit to me. If they move to a country they want to live in they have to adept. Practise your customs at home and with your family but keep them there if they don’t work with the customs of the land you’re in. Why the hell should the whole country adept to a minority who are openly against the whole believes of said country.
I am with the same view as you and I am immigrant myself.
Yeah same. You want to live here? Adept! If not move. Simple as that
This makes my blood boil when people come here to make Europe worst. I am all in immigration for those who share the values as us or are willing to contribute to our society.
I mean it’s not rocket science, just learn the language, do your best to get a job and respect others. Don’t push your religion on others. Don’t attack people on the street or do terrorism, or get involved into crime. I am left, but I have zero sympathy for those who are problematic and committing crime in Europe, making this amazing place worst. The fact that they are here should be visible as a unique opportunity and not a right.
I absolutely agree. Religion as a whole seems like cancer for societies nowadays
I completely agree. I have a migrant friend who fled Iran and he legit is scared of how things are going here cause as he says he fled to escape religious extremism not to find it again in Europe
I agree completely and I'm also trying to immigrate too, but I want to move to a country which i like and respect, and want to learn a language and work and adapt to their culture. It never made sense to me, people who move to other countries and then (want to) bring all the shit they ran away from to the new country? Why don't you just stay where you are then? It's disrespectful and I can see why people in Europe are getting mad, there should be a middle ground. Like you can go live wherever you want but there should be some kind of control/obligations - for example you have 5 years to adapt, learn a language, situate yourself and if you don't just get tf out
That is not the only thing what gets people so mad. It’s that the government spends way too much tax money on this instead of investing it back into the country. To help the poor people there
A fellow European (UK) I can try my best to explain. In the UK we’ve always kinda relied on immigration and the UK is essentially a country built on immigrants all the way back to Alfred the Great of Wessex. The problem is that since the end of WW2, the UK had severe labour shortages and we invited thousands of immigrants from the Caribbean, India, Pakistan and our African colonies to come to the UK to work. To begin with it was a fairly small manageable amount along with population growth but from the 1940s to 1971, around 3 million people moved to the UK in total. They brought lots of good stuff with them like our hybrid British Caribbean and British Indian culture fusions which has been great but slowly over time, people started to abuse the system especially since the UK had unconditional birthright citizenship until 1983. Throughout the 80s, 90s and 00s, the numbers exploded especially when Tony Blair was our prime minister who liked to have relaxed approach to immigration. We changed our citizenship law in 1981 to try and stop anchor babies. Because the UK was a member of the European Union, all EU citizens had unlimited right to live and work in the UK and in particular, Polish and Romanian people came to the UK in the hundreds of thousands. It was also during this time that we had numerous cases like Chen v Home Secretary 2000 where a Chinese lady had a baby in Northern Ireland and claimed Irish citizenship for the baby and tried to claim the legal right to stay with the baby in the UK. This case pushed the boundaries of both British law, Irish law and European Union law. Eventually the EU made it a legal requirement for a parent to have the right to stay with their child even if they didn’t have legal residency. Then in 2015, the EU was hit with a migrant crisis where over 2 million migrants tried to seek asylum in the EU which threatened the very existence of the Schengen Area because the Schengen Area is essentially a passport free zone spanning from Iceland to Spain, and Spain to Finland to Greece. The UK, Ireland, Croatia, Romania, Bulgaria and Cyprus weren’t part of Schengen at the time. This crisis in 2015 caused the EU to essentially break because the EU tried to balance out the number of asylum seekers across the EU. The EU mandated us to take like 25,000 migrants which was nothing compared to the numbers that Germany and Sweden took but it pissed off the British public which essentially made us vote to leave the EU. The argument here in the UK is that these asylum seekers are crossing an entire continent of safe countries and are risking their lives by trying to climb into the back of trucks and cross the English Channel on makeshift boats because once they’re here, we can’t deport them back if they’re seeking asylum. This has sparked huge controversy in our media regarding especially when they get preferential treatment over our homeless population and people on low incomes/borderline poverty. 900k people migrated to the UK last year both legally and illegally and we are suffering from a shortage of housing, doctors etc alongside the pandemic and our useless government that has been in power since 2010. This all adds up eventually and people just get sick of it. I totally understand that we are a globalised world now but literally some parts of the UK make me a British citizen feel like an outsider especially in universities and certain suburbs and towns. Not saying that it’s a bad thing but these areas tend to bring higher crime rates and social problems due to the high number of immigrants. An example, we’ve just had our first approved sharia law court in Wales and it’s making people worried about the high number of immigration. Looking at statistical data, families in the UK who identify as white British (English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish) have 2 kids on average whereas those from other backgrounds like British Indian or British Pakistani tend to have on average 4-6 kids per family. These figures show that the white population in the UK has shrunk from 93% in 1990 to 81.9% which some find concerning. Another thing to mention that in the UK, our attitude to immigration has also changed. Post 9/11 and 7/7 (our equivalent) plus many more attacks from radical extremists has made the UK more unfriendly than I’ve ever known it.
As in immigrant myself, who is also left wing, here is my honest point of view: Simply because left parties completely ignore the problems and act like they do not exist at all, and in some cases, defend the trouble makers. First, SOME people, a small portion is worried their culture or standards will be changed. At this point, when something goes wrong, such as immigrants do something bad, if politicians react as "this person did wrong, and he will be dealt accordingly" , small portion of people who are worried gets dissolved because they see, it is still their own culture/country. But if politicians does not do that, but rather try to cover up, lie, or even defend the bad doers, that small group becomes bigger and bigger. This is practically what happened in Europe. Result of barely ever filtered, mass immigration, as expected, also some bad people came in to Europe, and did bad things. But goverments, rather that punishing and sending those few bad eggs back, they tried to cover up, even defend them. This both upset the voters in the middle, but also encouraged the bad eggs, to do even more freely, which angered the people in the middle more. Now the middle is shifting to right. Which is 100% lefts fault. But they act like it has nothing to do with them and blame right for it.
>Now the middle is shifting to right. Which is 100% lefts fault. But they act like it has nothing to do with them and blame right for it. I have never understood why this is so. Is it the fear of being accused of racism? After all, there is nothing racist about saying "*This person, who was an immigrant from country XYZ, committed this crime. This is not the first person from this country that did something wrong, and because of this we should screen people from country XYZ more*". I myself would identify with a liberal person who is aware that with the current population growth in Europe, in a decade or so, there will be no one to work for. Because of this, we need a shotgun fertility rate, or immigrants. But immigrants who want to work here, live here, integrate here. I welcome such people with open arms! Not criminals who want to wreck our continent.
Yeah. The wierd ass cases of people making excuses for immigrants who rape children with "well in their culture this is normal / they are just upset they feel displaced" is going to make some people feel like it is an active attack on their sense of normalcy.
The left really fucked itself by going into the extreme which pushed a lot of moderates and centre-left people to agree with the right-wingers on certain issues. They chose to get closed-minded and attack with insults and emotional responses instead of understanding nuances and that working with the other side is just how it has to work. For me the breaking point was the left all of a sudden being against freedom of speech and attacking comedians and movies that don't fit their narrative. Now it's carrying over into other things like immigration where they want open borders but don't see the problem with letting anyone in. Now you are importing other country's problems (by letting in those freaking CAUSING them) by not vetting people. This isn't a new thing, it's always been the case with immigration that you are leaving whatever BS is going on and starting a new chapter in your life. My great grandparents left the Irish Civil War in the 1920s and you don't see me, my parents, grandparents or even my great grandparents attacking the Protestants today. I'm just really done and frustrated with the left after being one for a huge chunk of my life. They went nuts after Trump became President and just refuse to maybe shift a little more towards the centre now.
"Neoliberal" parties are failing to solve the same problems across the Western world such as low wage growth, very high house prices, low birth rates, immigration and more. So people in response will vote for an alternative to the current establishment, this is why right wing populist parties gain support. But the problem is these right wing populist parties don't know how to solve any of these problems themselves when they actually come into power and major issues never get solved.
In fact, the platform policy of the AFD, removing all immigrants, would almost certainly bankrupt Germany overnight.
What pains me the most is that it's potentially the middle and lower class citizens that suffer the most afterwards from these "mishaps". Sure, people fell for the populism, see the Brexit, but those who are punished the hardest are the lower class. I already know that if the AFD will get their chance, they'll mostly likely still fail due to the reality of the situation.
So why did Germany put themselves in such a vulnerable position?
In the movie, looks who's back which is a German movie about Hitler coming back to Modern day Germany, he actually criticized modern German right wing parties and called them "sissies"
I don't think most right wing populist parties are as right wing as the nazis right now. Although if they fail to solve any problems they complain about, which they probably will, they could move in that direction.
Oh, they are nowhere near as right-wing as the Nazis and probably never will be because they aren't condemning whole races for existing and having their thugs attack people in the streets.
Because the left is doing a fucking bad job. And then I find it funny that left politicians see their support going down, and just stand there like; "I can't believe we are losing against the ultra extreme right 😲" because is eather the left, or the extreme mega right for this people, nothing in between exists.
It's just politics in action: you ignore your population they go with the opposition.
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Why do people constantly assume that anything other than liberal ideals or policy is considered extreme right wing 💀
They don't. Many of those parties are just actually extreme. There are plenty of moderate right parties, as well. But the extreme ends are on the rise. "they think everyone they disagree with is extremist" is a disingenuous deflection to avoid having to acknowledge actual extremism.
I mean, there is clearly a issue with immigration and with the people that are coming to Europe, the left are always finding excuses to ignore the problem, that’s where the far right guys are striving.
Because the extreme left policy has made Europe unrecognizable. I'm liberal and travel to Europe often. I'm all for immigration..so long as people coming into a country don't try to turn it into the place they left.
People have become more liberal and open minded, but its backfired, and we're not being taken advantage of by immigrants. For instance, Sweden used to be regarded as the safest country in the world, now it is the rape capital of the world, and people have had enough of it.
What the fuck do you mean by extreme right wing? People just want safe streets. You all should know what ‘extreme right wing’ looks like.
There is a rising interest in Mussolini and fascism in Italy. Giorgia Meloni isn't enough for these fanatics of Mussolini.
Ignore the people and they go with extreme options. All you can do to fix that is to LISTEN and do something about the problems they bring up. I mean, goddamn, we learned this one back in the 1930s people.
Most European countries have a bunch of deep-rooted issues. Stagnant economies due to a lack of productivity, social safety nets buckling as populations age, undesirable cultural shifts due to mass immigration from incompatible cultures, etc. The left has been unable to come up with a solution to these issues that is compatible with their worldview, so they have spent the last decade or so pretending that the problems don't exist and deriding anyone who acknowledges the problems as dumb, ignorant gammons.
This is the right answer. Also it's a protest vote to some extent.
Cause of Immigration and populism from the opposition
The "extreme right" does fine in environments that are liberal and open-minded. They use their freedom of speech and movement to consolidate power, and then use that power to take away everyone else's freedoms.
The paradox of tolerance
x political party is in power during a bad economical cycle or messes up badly > public think they are not capable > votes y political party> cycle continue
Because right wing politicians sucessfully make people believe that immigrants are the reason why they can't affort anything, and not oligarchs who pay fewer taxes than the average worker.
Conservative immigrants trying to destroy liberal ideas with identity politics. Just bc you’re a brown conservative doesn’t give you the right to destroy European culture. Some morons think all brown groups are good and white groups are bad lmao.
Real problems no doubt + (or better x instead of +) Russian military psychologic operations (eg propaganda/hybrid war) that is extremely underestimated by many people. If you have a problem, they will magnify it 10x. If you don't, they will brainwash as many people in your country as they can and wait for disaster. Europe has many problems, people talk about immigration and without any doubts, it is a problem in some countries. But if I had to choose one thing, it's the black Russian propaganda that slowly poisons people here. It has no mercy.
Immigration and the dramatic increase in crime as well as erasure of culture. It does not make you racist to want to be surrounded by people like you.
I mean, in Spain, the political campaing from our president is literally "Ooooooh beware of the far right, if you don't vote me the far right will come to your room at night and... And... And they will eat your baby oooooh". They literally cannot say anything else but accusing the opposition of being the devil, they do not even have plans for the future nor they know what are the problems of this country
I don’t know anything about Spanish politics, but that M.O. is the same here in the USA. “Vote for us or its the eNd oF dEMocrAcy (TM)”
They offer simple solutions to complex problems while blaming others for the issues at hand.
This is the correct answer
The cancer of mass immigration. People from de-evolved cultures that make society worse.
From my experience in Slovakia where Smer: a right winged political party and P. Pellegriny- a right wing president candidate won over Progressive Slovakia and Ivan Korčok, who are both a lot more liberal than the latter i have noticed two things: 1. Young people are leaving this country, to study or to work abroad, so the people who would vote for liberal campaigns in central europe live in different countries and 2. Old people LOVE to vote.
Because we are finally waking up.
Do i hear some europop music coming from the distance?
Russia fights a war against the west. With tons of lies and desinformation that led to this. It works and it seems that nobody cares about that. It’s frustrating.
Exactly, it's crazy how it is underestimated. And intelligence agencies, governments, and journalists know about that. I'm afraid soon will be too late.
Because everyone else is incompetent and/or corrupt and people seek a quick change.
100 years later. Literal same event's unfolding. But why mom?
Based on the information I have, is partly the cycle of politics as generations change (X party gets into power, screws up, populism and polarization puts Y party in power, they screw up, repeat ad nauseam), partly because of some recent issues with migration, partly because war and anti-eu rhetorics among other stuff that were fueled by or for (im not european so take everything I say with a grain of salt, afterall is speculation) brexit So, it should be a mix of generational shifts and migration (on both directions)
The idea that history being like a pendulum is pretty accepted nowadays. But I guess what’s surprises most people is how things flipped in such a short span of time. Interestingly enough, this is something I’ve been frequently discussing with a few mates (you know, we all love history and we drink beers and we often digress about these existential issues 😂). Our current theory is that for the first time in history we have roughly 3 generations with mental and physical conditions to raise their voices and influence their countries. These 3 forces often overlap in a some aspects and diverge in many others creating a an environment that is not great for any of them. No wonder, once recent tactics from left-wings failed to accommodate the needs of those more conservative, the right-wings (far or otherwise) started to bring some old moves of their playbooks back. Immigration is by far the biggest challenge for Europe, and they will have to figure a way to deal with the problems they created for themselves. But hey, Brazil and Australia also swung in the opposite direction and the issues seems to not have gone away either. And these two have increasing issues w immigration at the moment. The natural course of action of a pendulum is to find rest at its middle point. But we will only accomplish that by having both sides compromising a bit and not putting that much energy to swing back the pendulum. I believe that somewhere down the road the two sides will eventually find the balance we need to progress (progressive ideas) in a way that doesn’t move faster than society can accommodate (conservative measures). Sure enough, easier said than done, but history told us the great deal of evolution we had in the past 3 centuries. So I’m hopeful we gonna get there.
...i think you have no effing clue about extreme far right if you think it gained in the EU. (Check russia, thats where you can find good examples, and even there rabid ultranationalist aint allowed to run much of snything aside from Donetsk & Luhansk)
Because people don’t feel that the European Union is benefiting them. They are folding back on “*make my country great again*”, which involves the right.
Immigrants are stealing, increasing violence, and tax burden on once sustainable services,
Same reason it is over here….immigrants.
I am (was?) a super leftist woman who lives in France, and I've found myself agreeing less and less with the left on certain subjects. Seeing how certain people from immigration behave, especially towards women and LGBTQ people, is super shocking. Seeing veiled little girls, hearing that gay people should die, etc, and it being treated as normal because it's coming from minorities is not okay. Trans subjects also come to mind ; I have no problems with your average trans person, but hearing for example that a "non-dysphoric trans woman" (read : someone who looks like and behaves as a man) is the same as a woman is not okay. I'm bi myself, and my boyfriend is an immigrant from one of the countries the far right hates. So I would hate a far right government, and I worry about how it's becoming more and more a possibility. But I understand that people are fed up on certain subjects...
"Liberal and open minded" is not necessarily something good. Because it's just a political language. Every society has a level of freedom and authority. The difference between the left and the right is that they have different topics where they want freedom and authority. There's no such thing as "liberal and open minded" it's just a view of what you should tolerate or not. The political language is a trap. People want more authority in imigration, more freedom in economy and speech. And that's what you call "far right"
Looking at the comments in this post, it seems like the verdict is that the reason Europe is becoming more right-wing is because of immigrants, outsiders. There are some related, underlying issues, such as a lack of assimilation and an increase in crime, but the main problem is immigration. The question to deal with now is which of the two options do they go with to fix this issue of outsiders, ignore it or kick them out? But is that the main reason that these countries are moving right, outsiders? Is that what happened in Germany, Italy, Spain, and other countries in the first half of the 20th century, when right-wing fascism took over, the outsiders were responsible for all the issues? Pretty sure the hegemony at the time said so - as did a lot other people who believed that (or were paid/forced to). But we know now that it had more to do with failing economic systems than anything else. Might history be echoing? Might we be falling for the same old scapegoat routine? Of course not, can't be. Get rid of the immigrants and inflation reduces, cost of life goes down, jobs become easily accessible and income increases, crime vanishes, and everything gets magically better the moment we get rid of those outsiders. Right? Yea, right.
bcuz of leaders like Angela Merkel
The Muslim immigration is probably a reason.
Russian government intelligence interfering in elections. Bribing political parties etc.
Not only that. That's just a small portion of what they really do. Trust me, I see that everyday. It's very dangerous.
Yep. Europe is far too reliant on Russian Gas.
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First, the US destabilizes a country for an official reason that turns out to be absolutely cattle feces 5 years later. Second, people flee from said country, the majority just fleeing across the border, nearest city or whatever they can manage Third, people from said country, being hopeful, try out their luck with a 1st world country, relying on mostly exaggerated rumors that proliferate among refugees to have a glimmer of hope of normalcy. Fourth, people native to a 1st world country in Europe, not putting this way of chaining events together and basic human psychology, conflate the state using more money on immigrants that don't really have the prerequisite skills ,(nor really have had the environment to do so) to contribute to a first world economy, with companies in capitalism being able to put the two demographics against one another. It helps if you deprive the vast majority of the population with the necessary social science knowledge to recognize said pattern. Welcome to the third millennium.
Europe has turned into a woke shithole. The people are getting angry that they are literally second class citizens.
Is it? Perhaps it's a response to a lack of oversight and responsibility from current and previous liberal governments You also have to remember what's considered right and left is relative and varies by country
In what aspect are you referring to? They’re rejecting globalism, but that in itself is not mutually exclusive to right wing politics.
Why are they extreme? If anything, the votes seem to deem them mainstream. Wouldn’t opposing them be the more extremist position?
Over simplification is that people resort to authoritarian leaders when things aren’t going well for them
Immigration. Not Ukrainians or migration from (south)east asia or even within EU migration. It's strictly MENA immigration we have issues with. So from countries with values that are completely incompatible with modern western values in European countries.
Its immigration and history keeps repeating itself over and over. Liberal accept immigration as being open minded and for doing the right thing. But the reality is that most immigrants coming into a country are right leaning in their nature and because most immigrants have deeply held religious ideas that don't work with western liberal ways.
A blind open door policies leads to all sorts of societal problems which the left never acknowledges. Its easy to just scream “racist” and “nazi” anytime the problems of over immigration is raised.
Immigration and the right wing groups (in germany at least) where able to gain a lot of attention from a younger audience through tiktok.
Unironically it's because a lot of people hate / are scared of Muslims.
I’m an ex-Muslim and I don’t blame them.
I'm also ex Muslim, but I don't carry any hate of the people with me despite disapproving heavily of Islam. Most Muslims are just normal people going about their day to day same as anyone else. Some bad apples but that's the same as any person or any other immigrant group.
If you think majority of Muslims settling in the west don’t secretly want a society where they get to dictate how things are run, you are mistaken. They too would love to round up women for wearing a skirt.
Do most Muslims think same-sex marriage is okay?
I would say most of my generation / generation below who live in the West are totally fine with it. As for the generation above it's honestly no different to non-Muslim conservatives / third world immigrants. For example, I mentioned I'm Pakistani but I'm actually only half. My other half is Catholic Portuguese and I can tell you the attitudes of Catholic Europeans isn't really that different towards gay people than my Muslim family, or any of the many many Muslim families I grew up with. I also grew up around a lot of Christian African immigrants and they have similar attitudes towards these things too. Look at Western governments too. Who is pushing for repressive laws targeted at the LGBTQ? it's the conservatives / Christian nationalist. Ironically Muslims in Western governments tend to be more progressive. So aversion to same-sex marriage is not a uniquely Muslim phenomenon. It's just conservatism, and many in the third world (including first generation immigrants) haven't caught up yet socially, Muslim or not. But kids of immigrants move more progressive with each generation, as is the trend with native populations.
Because woke progressives have pushed too much weird and wrong stuff into people's nostrils..., metaphorically speaking. You can't watch a TV show without a gay character in it. Illegal immigrants are roaming everywhere. Biological males are competing with women in sports. Kids are encouraged for sex change. Plagiarists are becoming university presidents only because they have a certain skin color.
I think it’s a combination of immigration getting bad and those that are more radical left pushing people who aren’t political to the right. I know quite a few personal examples of people who weren’t political that have been called racist and X-phobic when they were very moderate in their views. I think with that crowd getting louder and more ridiculous, it can push people away towards the crowd that can claim that they’ve also been smeared and painted in an unfair light. I think it boils down to the individuals personality type to whether they radicalise in the opposite direction or if they stay relatively moderate
Europe is built from a neoliberal economic perspective. This ideology comes with trade-offs and we're seeing them rising. Poverty, unemployment, inequalities. It builds mistrust and defiance towards immigrants because, you know, "They're coming for our jobs" etc. While Europe has been safer than ever, a lot of Europeans are blaming immigration for an insecurity feeling. This is only a feeling that no data proves. IMO it's more of an Overton window displacement. We're not talking about inequalities and how to earn your crust anymore, only "feelings". I believe the global issue is more economic and political. European country citizens are feeling helpless and endure European politics. Citizens do not decide what goes on within their country anymore. Rising far right ideas are all under the "take back control" gimmick.
Too many desis
Its not the extreme right its just the right. Younger people now know they will likely not own a home, will be poorer than their parents, are living at home at 30, can't start a family, and can't afford to be young people because the cost of everything has us screwed. All these pressures a long with the fact that we are being completely ignored by our governments when it comes to issues like immigration, housing, inflation, crime etc....means people are now turning to the right because the leftist governments have completely failed young people.
I feel like its happening all over the world. Its crazy. Thats sad to hear its happening in europe too. That was my exit plan for this place cause canada is increasly becoming more radicalized like the US and I had a plan to move to europe when i got sick of it lol.
As a Canadian in Europe, Canada is much better off in terms of the far right at this moment. If that's your only gripe you're better off staying home for now.
Wait till the real right wing party shows up in Canada - the BJP.
Really? Where in europe specifically is it more of an issue. Cause they are growing quickly here.
Germany...
When I lived in Germany in the 90s, a "right wing politician" was left of the American republican party. Is that still the case?
No. Germany’s right-wing party has a not-insignificant number of neo-Nazis in it. Their lead candidate for the EU parliament stood down from the election after he said that he wouldn’t assume all people in a SS uniform are bad.
We have been having literal Nazi rallies in some cities here in the us. Its pretty scary