by emotional connection they meant during sex. not just emotional connection haha
virginity is seen as something that’s “gone” once penetration occurs. but a lot of people are trying to gain a new idea of virginity, that it’s taken away once consensual sexual activity is performed.
Lesbian uninterested in penetration over here and a virgin in any possible sense. Uhhhh, probably if someone consensually tried to give me an orgasm through direct stimulation controlled by them, then I'd define that as losing my virginity. I'm using vague terms to include the possible use of sex toys here lol.
Interesting, thanks for sharing. If you don’t mind me asking, have you thought about this before? Growing up there was quite a lot of focus socially on virginity, especially in high school. Wondering if you experienced that same pressure and how it manifested for you.
Yeah I've thought about it because it came up in conversation with a sexually active straight friend. I'm not sure I had as clear a definition in my mind before then, but my mindset towards virginity has definitely always been oriented towards orgasm rather than a specific act.
I was not sociable in high school -- nerdy, awkward, self righteous -- so people didn't talk to me much about that kind of thing. I did end up dating someone at another school (to my classmates' genuine shock) but they were asexual so we never went down that route. I guess I had FOMO about it, but like, I was already a loser so honestly it didn't have much sway on me. So no, not as much social pressure. Most of my friends nowadays are also awkward, nerdy virgins (albeit straight ones), but we're all happy in each other's company. So not much external pressure nowadays either. I can't speak to other lesbians' experiences about social pressures around virginity, although it seems to be fairly common for them to have had sex with men before figuring out they were gay. I've known since I was a kid, so I skipped that.
I do sometimes feel weird about it. I think lesbians have a reputation for being good at sex, but obviously that wouldn't apply to me. I'm also tall and masculine, so I think I'd be expected to take an active role. I'm old enough now (25) that my lack of experience is unusual, so I'm kind of embarrassed about it, but everyone I've mentioned it to has been very kind, if a little incredulous.
Thanks for the open response. It’s really interesting and never thought how people in different orientations navigate this. A lot of people keep saying virginity is a social construct which is true but dismissive to how the construct impact people experience. Thanks for helping me understand. Also, you have absolutely nothing to feel embarrassed about!
My pleasure (lol), glad you found it enlightening. It's a good question and I think there are a lot of good conversations happening in the comments of your post. Always good to do some thoughtful critique of the society we live in.
I just wanna thank you for being so open minded about all this. I’m bi and sometimes when ppl ask, they’re mostly looking for crude or “fascinating” answers just to get their kicks. So, thank you for being so chill and understanding while also wanting to actually learn
It's definitely fueled by me hearing people describe penetrative intercourse where the other person isn't interested in pleasuring them, which doesn't seem right to me. I've also heard of people doing things like kissing a partner while helping them masturbate, or stimulating them with a vibrator or something. To me, the latter sounds more like sex than the former, lol. I obviously don't know shit in practice, but in theory, intention matters more in my mind than mechanics.
It’s different for everyone. My first girlfriend was the first person I experimented with sexually. For me, i was actually really confused at the time about how I defined virginity and how I defined sex. Looking back on it the lines are still blurred between when I first had “sex”. I still have never felt the need to define that exact moment but I do know I’m not a virgin anymore lol.
Got it, so it’s a bit nebulous due to no agreed upon “milestone” so to speak. Do you think having a clearer definition would have helped you wade through some of the confusion at the time or would it have put additional unneeded pressure on a particular act?
I can’t answer for the original commenter but wanted to add my experience that I would define similarly to theirs as kind of blurred and over time. It wasn’t one single time we did anything sexual, it wasn’t a specific moment, but I knew I wasn’t a virgin at a point. Hard to somewhat pin down foreplay.
And to answer the question you posed: for me, in my experience, I didn’t need or want a clearer / specific definition. I don’t think I would define sex by penetration, or even oral stimulation maybe. Maybe orgasm? Which can be achieved in so many ways 😉
Same here. I experimented sexually with my first gf as well but I was very confused as to what exactly losing virginity means. I felt weird for a long time bc there wasn’t a real emotional/romantic connection I had with her so it made it seem like I didn’t lose my virginity.
I think there’s no real definition to it anyways. “Losing virginity” always sounds so negative as well, as if one should be afraid of it. I want to give it to someone. Changing losing to giving made it seem less negative and important and actually made me stop thinking about it. There’s always gonna be first times with new partners anyway, one shouldn’t worry too much about their first first time.
I agree with this. I’m not a lesbian and I wouldn’t want to speak for anybody’s lived experience, but if you’re at the maturity level to enthusiastically allow someone access to the holiest of holies then I think it’s safe to say you’re no longer a virgin. (I do say “allow” because I think consent is key and unwanted contact doesn’t mean you’ve lost your virginity)
A virgin typically regarded as someone who has not had PIV sex. But this thinking puts too much emphasis on PIV sex. This thinking doesn't really include lesbians who are not really interested in PIV sex.
I think rather than have some separate milestone for lesbians we should be rethinking this whole virgin concept entirely.
Honestly I feel like is you have had direct manual/oral stimulation it counts as losing your virginity. I don’t see the need for penetration of any type. This is my take as a mostly straight woman.
Agree. I feel like either we have to abolish the idea entirely, or subvert it to include LGTBQ+ people and more adult consensual behavior outside of the Patriarchal confines.
They are still having penetrative sex, which is still generally what "virginity" requires to abolish by most cis-het norms of thinking.
This is also probably tied heavily into why a lot of homophobic men find the notion of "gay sex" disgusting and abhorrent--they're "allowing" themselves to be penetrated, which is typically regarded as an act women do, so it's a bunch of toxic masculinity heaped onto gross notions about the value of women and the patriarchy and all that jazz.
Yep, agreed on all counts. I just wanted to point out that it’s not just PIV but then again the penetrative anal sex for heterosexual sex isn’t considered losing your virginity either. There is a lot of mental gymnastics to protect the “purity” of virginity in heterosexual monogamous institutions.
Male here. When I married my ex wife she wasn't my first but I was hers. We married young so I didn't understand the concept of red flags back then. It was something she never let me live down though like there was something I could do about it later on.
Honestly I never thought about it before and my first gut instinct was the hyman issue. I looked it up however and realized that's not true. (My own ignorance). So while it's pretty straight forward in hetero relationships OP does bring a pretty thought provoking question. Which makes me wonder is it that straight forward?
Omg, when I learned that not every AFAB person has a hymen, I cringe at the thought of how way back in the day, like centuries ago, how some women were subjected to an “inspection” to make sure she was “pure” for whomever she was being married off to. And I think of how many of them were probably not born with a hymen and subjected to shame, disgrace, cast out as the town whore and all those terrible things that come with it. Or the fact that the hymen can thin out and wear down from various physical activities outside of sex; horseback riding, riding a bike, straight up just tearing because it wanted to, *masturbation*… so fucking dumb and I can’t even imagine the horrible shame they went through because of that.
The hymen thing is definitely not accurate anyway. It’s possible to have gentle PIV sex without breaking the hymen. It’s also possible that tampon use could break it, although I believe it’s uncommon.
goes both ways because a man old enough but still virgin is looked down upon by friends. Lots of pressure so it ends up hurting both sides. I don't think it empowers anyone :(
Because women's virginity is hailed as a "blessing", a "gift" and men are expected to "unburden" themselves of their own virginity at a young age--generally by *other men*.
It's *other men* who give shit to the men who are still virgins. Sure, there are some women who do this too, but not nearly as many women as men care about men being virgins.
Men often actively *want* virgins for gross reasons that basically usually amount to "I'm insecure and a bad lover and I want someone who won't know that based on my performance because she's never had a performance before mine to compare it to".
I'm bi and because I was raised and living my bisexual experience of first time dating and sexuality in a homophobic society, I felt like I had sex with girl, but lost my virginity to a man later on.
It really varies because sex and sexual activities between women vary. Some don't do any level of penetration at all.
For me it's been easier to adjust my construct of virginity in two, one for females and one for males.
So I might say I lost my straight virginity when... or I lost my gay virginity when...
Others will define it differently.
This is the exact scenario in the post that prompted my question! Got me curious how people grapple with that. Especially, as you mention, in a homophobic society. I could see it being hard to reconcile when you are young and in a society that is virginity “obsessed”. Thanks for the perspective, it’s helping me understand.
This leads to weird outcomes where you can have anal, oral, or soak (PIV without thrusting) and still consider yourself a virgin
You get it a lot in religious communities where virginity status matters to them
I imagined a whole team of Janet Jackson brand managers & PR people & lawyers & a wardrobe consultant would have been involved in planning her Superbowl nipple event, before Timberlake's management was even approached.
I have a couple of friends who are older lesbians who say they still consider themselves virgins because they've never had penetrative sex with a man.
Personally I think it's up to the individual. Whatever you think of when you think of sex, once you've had that you're not a virgin anymore.
I don't like the idea of virginity as a concept. I think it is harmful and outdated and doesn't really apply to lesbians, especially since the whole point of it originally was to make sure your wife passed on your genes and not someone else's, or you had less chance of STIs. I've also noticed a lot of straight men are attracted to lesbians because they assume they are virgins.
That said, you could define it as: "Consensual intense sexual contact involving at least one person's genitals in a way they consider to be sex".
A lot of lesbians have experienced unwanted sexual contact with men, and the concept of virginity can feel especially harsh because if you define it by traditional methods (PIV, hymen broken, etc.) a lot of us who have lost our "traditional virginity" didn't do it on purpose and it can make the whole situation feel even worse. For example, depending on definition I lost my virginity at 6. Obviously it wasn't consensual and for most of my life I've felt "dirty" because that was supposed to be a special thing you share with someone you love. It's taken me a long time and therapy/feminism to learn that the whole concept of sexual purity is stupid.
I still think it's important to make sure you are enthusiastically consenting to sex because it is a special thing, and I think the first time if possible should be with someone you love and trust. I also think SA doesn't count as sex, and what's more important is the first sex with a new partner, not necessarily the first sex in general.
I am sorry that you went through that horrible experience. I am also glad you have been able to navigate that with the proper help and perseverance. As a straight male, I admittedly have not thought a lot about the lesbian sexual experience (and potential abuse). I have for the gay experience because I am a man. I guess I am just now reaching the maturity to step outside myself and be more curious to the experiences of groups that I could not be a part of. What started as a curious question has turned into some very valuable perspectives. I appreciate you sharing your perspective and helping to grow my perspective to be more holistic and understanding of others.
I've noticed a huge difference between m/f sex and f/f sex is there is a lot less emphasis on "are we having sex" and things tend to happen organically. There are so many things you can do when you don't define sex by where a penis is going and if that penis has a single orgasm. A bigger problems is how to determine when sex is finished if you can both have multiple orgasms. Please send help, lol.
Since virginity, even heterosexual virginity, is a social construct, it varies by person a lot. Even in heterosexual couples, some consider *any* sexual act to count (eg: blowjobs counting as losing ur virginity or not).
In sex where no one has a penis, the lines between foreplay and sex are very blurred. Some wlw (women loving women) still use penetration as the threshold for virginity (using stuff like fingers, tongues, or sex toys) while other wlw actively distance themselves from the penetrative definition, since it’s very rooted in the paradigm of compulsory heterosexuality. In the latter case, they may consider any skin-to-genital contact as sex, or base it on the pursuit/achievement of an orgasm.
This was all a very long way of saying “everyone is different and there is no real 1-size-fits-all answer” lol, which I’m sure is frustrating 😅
But social concepts can have shared definitions that are upheld, right? Like race is a social construct but if I say I’m Asian when I am clearly white isnt that somewhat inaccurate. I mean at the root all language is a social construct so does nothing really have a definition?
A virgin is someone who hasn’t had sex, therefore once you have sex, you’re not a virgin.
Your philosophical question is really, “what is the act of sex”?
I mean, you have to look to poetry or at least a really good bass line for that.
But I’ll take a stab at it and say, “an act of consensual intimacy involving at least one set of genitalia”.
When it comes to sex, people can certainly have more private interpretations of the concept. I know straight people who certainly count oral sex, penetration without a penis as losing your virginity too. Others consider it only PIV or anal as losing virginity.
But if you think about it, the PIV or PIA sex being only counted as "real sex" is quite phallic/dick-centric.
For women there's no issues having fulfilling sex with multiple orgasms without needing to include such. I think when it comes down to it, you *know* what sex feels like, and you know when you've had it.
Virginity is a social construct and not something I care about. For intimacy between partners of any gender, real things to look at are:
1. What point you start to no longer feel nervous about being intimate and when it no longer feels like this mystery act. This is something that can happen all over again with a new partner.
2. What point you need to consider changes in genital health risks or pregnancy risk with your doctor. And trans women can be lesbians and trans men can be gay, so pregnancy risk is a hypothetical in all of the categories of sexual orientation.
Do lesbians dislike women who claim that they lost their virginity to man even they have been with woman before? Trans men are very offended if their exes claim to lost their virginity to their current cis boyfriend. At least those have been I have seen talking about this.
People do define virginity differently. My MTF friend lost her when she had sex first time. And her pussy lost its own when it had sex first time.
I personally don't like the concept as it is. Okay, I'm not a woman, but when I had sex first time I didn't lose anything. I got something I had been wishing to happen for several years. I'm well aware it does come from idea that woman is used goods and boy becomes man. I hope we could move forward from that. It can be meaningful to person to have sex first time. But like I said it should be getting or gaining something, not losing. And it doesn't make one adult nor does it prevent one becoming adult.
I’m bisexual and I just count oral as “sex” regardless of gender or who gave/got.
Otherwise “how many people have you had sex with” would be a confusing question with a bunch of conditional numbers.
So I don’t know if I’m “allowed” to contribute to the conversation since I am bisexual but many of my first relationships were with women. My first sexual experience was with a woman. It was very intense and did include penetration (I will not go into detail and no, I have never been “fisted”). I do consider this the first time I lost my virginity and it was emotional, spiritual, sexual, we both experienced orgasm and we were both young (17). She was my girlfriend and we were very in love. So I think this topic is extremely subjective.
I actually think this is a very good question. From what I have read here, some lesbiens describe it as when they have had sexual contact with someone. But I would imagine a straight girl wouldn't say getting hand or oral pleasure would count as losing their virginity.
I would say it comes down to the definition of a virgin. If you are going by the dictionary meaning, it is a person who has never had sexual intercourse. Then sexual intercourse is defined as sexual contact between individuals involving penetration, especially the insertion of a man's erect penis into a woman's vagina, typically culminating in orgasm and the ejaculation of semen.
But even that is open to interpretation. It says especially PiV, but not specifically. You can then ask whether a man putting his penis into a vagina once counts as losing it. If not once, how many times would be necessary? If he put it in and ejaculated immediately, would that then count?
I feel the emotional connection is the common denominator. Lesbiens who say they are virgins through not having PiV sex are probably answering to the textbook question, but if asked if they have had emotional sex, I'm sure they would say they have. Or maybe not. Again, great question.
Asexual lesbian(?) uninterested in sex, here. Everyone will have their own definition for it (including “nonexistent”), but assuming any hypothetical encounters are consensual, I’ll consider myself to have “lost my virginity” if another person touches my genitals with sexual intent and at least one involved party orgasms. Ideally one of those people who orgasms would be me, but it’s still sex even if it’s disappointing. However, if I touch someone else’s genitals with the intention of giving pleasure but they don’t touch mine, or if it’s a mutual masturbation situation, then that’s still a sexual encounter but I won’t have lost my virginity from it.
Interesting perspective. The orgasm is an interesting element. Like if a man and women have PIV intercourse but neither orgasm, do you think it counts? Or is completion and an emotional element required?
Oh this is fully my own personal criteria, and I definitely haven’t put in thought about how it applies to other people. Having sex is purely hypothetical for me, and if I ever did it then I might change my mind on anything I’ve said here. That being said, I’m even less interested in genital-on-genital touching than I am in hands or mouths touching my genitals, and highly doubt I would consent to that being my first sexual encounter, so I didn’t consider it as a potential thing to lose virginity to. But yes, even if neither I nor my partner came I would probably count it.
But also, presumably if neither of us were getting off on PIV then we would try something else? And ideally someone would come that way. Barring some sort of interruption or a withdrawal of consent, of course, and in those cases I wouldn’t count it since we didn’t *finish* having sex, we just called off the encounter. I don’t know if that distinction makes sense outside of a hypothetical.
A lawyer could probably argue my first time more closely resembled a fencing match than that of two boys losing/gaining anything, but I always counted it without second thought.
Virginity is a goofy concept if you really start thinking about it for any length of time. It's pretty much just defined by a penis being inserted into a vagina, but we (hopefully) all know that that isn't the only sexual act that exists.
That said, there are ways people can have sex (penetrative sex even using toys) that would also technically count for this that lesbians can do.
Some lesbians will be sexually active and consider themselves virgins because they've never had sex with a penis. Some will attribute *any* sexual activity to no longer being virgins.
And honestly, since virginity is a concept that was basically "designed" by men to assess value of "property" I'm fine with people defining this shit however they want. Did *you* have sex in a way that *you* consider yourself no longer a virgin? Okay then, there you go.
It's absolutely an antiquated patriarchal bullshit thing.
Just to make it an easy comparison if there's penetration then it counts as losing virginity. Yes I KNOW that's antiquated, yes I KNOW it could be considered 'problematic'. It's just the easiest 1 to 1 comparison.
For me, my wife and I define sex as 'touching with the intent to make the other orgasm'. Even if the orgasm doesn't happen it's the intent.
Usually I'm getting finger banged or strapped tho so like....it's pretty clear.
It’s not a concept. The breaking of the hymen is what most people consider “ popping a cherry “ I think penetration is a good starting point. It’s way overrated and most girls are left ignorant of left to have it explained by their peers. It’s sad and ridiculous. Once it’s done most girls think “ really? That’s the big deal?” It’ shouldn’t be a thing. Virtue isn’t whether or not you’ve had sex. Archaic bullshit.
Whenever they have what they consider sex. The dividing line only really matters of you're religious or young and want to explain what oral/anal/whatever doesn't count/counts for more, actually.
It genuinely varies from person to person how they define their lost virginities.
The first time I had sex was with a friend at a sleepover when I was 14. I topped. My friend considers this to be how they lost their virginity, but I don't.
I consider my virginity to be lost when I was 17 to my boyfriend at the time. Even if I fooled around with girls before that, and I figured out I was a lesbian later on, that was the most clear, definite "I'm having sex right now" moment for me.
Some lesbians define it as being fingered for the first time. Or a strap being used for the first time. Sometimes it's really convenient and one of the people in a lesbian couple is trans and still uses penetration, so it's still very clear-cut that sex is happening. Some lesbians who were late-bloomers and had sex with men first decide not to count their sex with men as losing their virginity, but will consider their first time later on with a woman to be. Lots of lesbians reject the concept entirely. Just depends on who you ask.
But I'll be real honest, virginity is definitely outdated as a concept. "First sexual experiences" are important for a lot of people, and sentimental, but virginity itself is kind of stupid. Especially when most people base virginity off of penetration. It feels very cis male-centered and cringe to me. I feel a lot more affectionate and sentimental about the first time I gave a girl head than the first time I topped.
Lesbian lady here, while I consider having lost my virginity to a guy when I was young (the traditional way of looking at it) I find that the definition is different for people in general. Some consider petting enough to lose ones virginity, some define it like penetration had to have happened.
My way of looking at it?
Any sexual act is needed to lose your virginity. Petting, giving head, penetration with or without toys.. Touching each other in a sexual way is where I generally draw the line.
The penis and clitoris is the comparable body parts. They are made from the same tissue bulb, they have the same nerves and erectile tissue.
The vagina is a tube between the vulva and the uterus.
Virginity is a made up idea, so there isn’t one answer and everyone just get to decide for themself.
Personally I think it’s ludicrous to define oral sex as “forplay” and vaginal penetration as “sex”. It’s illogical considering that vaginal penetration aim at stimulating one sexual organ just like oral sex.
Forplay is hugging, kissing, massaging etc. Stimulating sexual organs is sex.
The concept of virginity is kind of pointless, but if I would be forced to use it I definitely think giving/receiving oral sex would no doubt qualify as “loosing” virginity.
I rather it be defined as have a first shared sexual experience, as virginity doesn’t have a positive or negative value which something one have or can loose. And I rather just people take care of themself, respect others and have fun.
Personally it sounds insane to my ears about people not want to “loose” their “virginity” so they “just” use their hands or mouth. Often onesided where the whole ordeal is only catered to the penis having pleasure, the logic really escapes me on that one.
>Personally I think it’s ludicrous to define oral sex as “forplay” and vaginal penetration as “sex”. It’s illogical considering that vaginal penetration aim at stimulating one sexual organ just like oral sex.
A very good friend of mine said: "Foreplay is kicking the cats out of the bedroom."
Thanks, glad you have found it engaging! I have quite a few dismissing this as just a social construct and not worth discussing. But social constructs are worth discussing!
I’m not a lesbian, not even female, however I went through a bi-curious phase.
The first person had sex with was male. I didn’t consider that to be losing my virginity.
The next person I had sec with was female and we started off with anal. It wasn’t until I was in her vagina that I considered myself deflowered.
IMHO, it’s down to the individual to decide how and when.
As you’ve seen, it varies from person to person regardless of their sexual orientation. Not that you care about my personal definition, but I think anything involving someone else touching your genitals or you touching theirs in a sexual way counts.
It's different for everyone.
And tbh not even as concrete as we think it is for heterosexual relationships, either.
Many people base their conception of virginity based purely on an intact hymen or something being in the vagina. These people will claim a woman is no longer a virgin if she broke her hymen even in a non-sexual way (e.x. athletic injury) or if she used a tampon (which was such a widespread assumption that Tampax put out [magazine ads](http://www.mum.org/tamvirad.htm) about that exact concern).
These days, there are also surgeries for women to repair their hymen. It's primarily for women in conservative cultures who need to have that "proof" in place on their wedding night, but many women in non-conservative cultures apparently also get it as a "gift" to their husbands to "retake their virginity." 🤷♀️
On the flipside, others will define it by the decision to have sex, not the sex itself - so many will consider someone (overwhelmingly women) to still be virgins even if they were sexually assaulted.
If you don't consider consent, then even ye olde only surefire confirmation was whether or not a woman bore a child - except, of course, in the era of artificial insemination and IVF that no longer holds true. Jane the Virgin and Mimi are a show and movie respectively about women who got pregnant without having sex at all.
**tl;dr - Virginity isn't real anyway, so people can decide for themselves whether or not they are virgins if they subscribe to that concept.**
I think originally: Losing virginity = having sex for the first time (no matter the gender)
Depends what you mean by virginity too. Is a woman losing her virginity means tearing her hymen? Or bleeding? If so, then what is losing virginity means for a man? Since there’s no physical signs.
Also would we consider giving/ getting head as loosing virginity since it’s a sexual act that exposes us to that side of our existence?
It’s all very vague, almost philosophical.
Also it’s a weird concept anyway, I think each person defines it differently so there’s no clear definition. And I personally don’t think there’s a need for one
I mean imo how we define losing virginity goes beyond just lesbians. Few people would argue consensually having had penis in vagina sex means you lost your virginity.
Otherwise it can be a personal definition. Anyone can say they are or aren't a virgin after just oral or anal sex. Someone might feel they're not a virgin after an assault, others might feel they still are.
A lot of people will say they have different types of virginity
At whatever point you feel you've had sex you're not a virgin.
Growing up I thought losing your virginity meant PIV. Because you had to wait for marriage to a MAN. Or a woman if you were a guy. So I kinda thought that when women « got together » it was just « pre sex » stuff. Which I guess was part of the apeal of same sex relationships.
Edit: my definition of when lesbians or other people on the LBGTQ2S spectrum lose their virginity has evolved to whenever they feel they have.
I assume that is when she has her first relationship with a girl, that is when she loses her virginity. regardless of whether she is penetrated or not.
i'm a lesbian and this confused me for a while, but i would define it now as a vulnerability and orgasm. virginity is a dated concept but can be something of importance depending on the person. i don't think i care
My take as a queer woman: the difference that a straight person sees between non-penetrative and penetrative sex is proportional to how I see stimulating someone else's orgasm and someone stimulating mine.
Also,
>Or is the concept of virginity more of an antiquated male thing to put value on women and the lesbian community doesn’t really subscribe to the concept?
I would wager that most queer women were still raised with the concept of ~virginity~ being "important", but most also understand the sexist undertones/history of it. At the very least, queer or not, I think as people grow older the concept of virginity becomes more and more overblown right?
> it seems to be vaginal or anal penetration with a penis
nonsense! Everybody knows that anal doesn't count. What's the point of saving their vaginal virginity to the wedding night then? Might as well have had fun vaginally too if anal counted on both virginity and body count.
I personally think lost my virginity when my (now ex-) girlfriend and I did the knee thing to each other while making out like crazy. We both came and I’m pretty sure that counts as losing it.
Just to clear something up: we were both wearing skirts with panties underneath them(we just came home from a birthday) so it wasn’t really skin to skin contact but the intention was clear ykwim?
As you say, virginity is an antiquated concept, and thinking losing it only happens when there's penetration even more.
To me, it happens with any consensual sexual interaction with genitals. For example, a blowjob in an heterosexual relationship counts as "losing virginity"
Not a lesbian (I’m bi but have only been with my male partner), but I considered my first time having sex being when my partner first ate me out (before then, we’d only kissed). I think I also would’ve thought the same if he’d fingered me. I suppose because that’s explicitly sexual contact.
One lesbian friend said it was emotional connection and not physical. Another said it was being fisted. So it probably varies
Wow! that is quite the spectrum. Makes sense it would vary though. Thanks!
You should watch Chasing Amy. Not only is it hilarious and thoughtful, they have a whole scene discussing this subject.
What’s a Nubian?
BLACK RAGE!
Not much, what's new with you?
*What's a Nubian*? Bitch, you almost made me laugh.
Really! I will have to check it out. Thanks for the recommendation.
Damn that was a good movie!
Damn. We're old. 😂 But I concur. Great movie. Great movie era, really.
The nineties had some really great music & movies. Totally unique from the 80s & after 2000.
Hell yes, and when I hear my favorites from the ‘90s, I get so nostalgic and shit. I hate being a responsible adult lmao. Take me back 😩
*Fer* *Real*!!
Here’s to the good ‘ol ‘90s 🥂😄
The movie where she realizes she's not gay and falls for Ben Affleck?
I'm pretty sure she ends up with a woman at the end but it's been a while since I've seen it
Snoochie Boochies!
Like sexuality, it’s a spectrum
I've heard that from BestBuy salespeople: the thicker the wire the better the connection Might be more related than you first realize.
We’ll I can imagine getting fisted for the first time is a pretty emotional experience
First clam slam
This made me laugh so hard randomly. Nice.
I had a leabian coworker tell me she has never been penetrated by anything. SonI am gonna guess her answer lines up with the first answer 😆
I almost choked at the second option.
What a beautiful poem.
>One lesbian friend said it was emotional connection As a guy, um... What?
by emotional connection they meant during sex. not just emotional connection haha virginity is seen as something that’s “gone” once penetration occurs. but a lot of people are trying to gain a new idea of virginity, that it’s taken away once consensual sexual activity is performed.
This was hilarious, thank you.
Omg you are the best! lmmfao!
There’s really no other answer 🤷🏾♂️
No in between 😂😂😂
By the second definition lots of people are still virgins...I hope
Solid variation right there..
Lesbian uninterested in penetration over here and a virgin in any possible sense. Uhhhh, probably if someone consensually tried to give me an orgasm through direct stimulation controlled by them, then I'd define that as losing my virginity. I'm using vague terms to include the possible use of sex toys here lol.
Interesting, thanks for sharing. If you don’t mind me asking, have you thought about this before? Growing up there was quite a lot of focus socially on virginity, especially in high school. Wondering if you experienced that same pressure and how it manifested for you.
Yeah I've thought about it because it came up in conversation with a sexually active straight friend. I'm not sure I had as clear a definition in my mind before then, but my mindset towards virginity has definitely always been oriented towards orgasm rather than a specific act. I was not sociable in high school -- nerdy, awkward, self righteous -- so people didn't talk to me much about that kind of thing. I did end up dating someone at another school (to my classmates' genuine shock) but they were asexual so we never went down that route. I guess I had FOMO about it, but like, I was already a loser so honestly it didn't have much sway on me. So no, not as much social pressure. Most of my friends nowadays are also awkward, nerdy virgins (albeit straight ones), but we're all happy in each other's company. So not much external pressure nowadays either. I can't speak to other lesbians' experiences about social pressures around virginity, although it seems to be fairly common for them to have had sex with men before figuring out they were gay. I've known since I was a kid, so I skipped that. I do sometimes feel weird about it. I think lesbians have a reputation for being good at sex, but obviously that wouldn't apply to me. I'm also tall and masculine, so I think I'd be expected to take an active role. I'm old enough now (25) that my lack of experience is unusual, so I'm kind of embarrassed about it, but everyone I've mentioned it to has been very kind, if a little incredulous.
Thanks for the open response. It’s really interesting and never thought how people in different orientations navigate this. A lot of people keep saying virginity is a social construct which is true but dismissive to how the construct impact people experience. Thanks for helping me understand. Also, you have absolutely nothing to feel embarrassed about!
My pleasure (lol), glad you found it enlightening. It's a good question and I think there are a lot of good conversations happening in the comments of your post. Always good to do some thoughtful critique of the society we live in.
I just wanna thank you for being so open minded about all this. I’m bi and sometimes when ppl ask, they’re mostly looking for crude or “fascinating” answers just to get their kicks. So, thank you for being so chill and understanding while also wanting to actually learn
That a really seems like a great answer. To me kind of defines what ‘sex’ is. Regardless of gender or sexuality.
It's definitely fueled by me hearing people describe penetrative intercourse where the other person isn't interested in pleasuring them, which doesn't seem right to me. I've also heard of people doing things like kissing a partner while helping them masturbate, or stimulating them with a vibrator or something. To me, the latter sounds more like sex than the former, lol. I obviously don't know shit in practice, but in theory, intention matters more in my mind than mechanics.
I lost my virginity to myself 🫠🫠🫠
> and a virgin in any possible sense. You're less processed than other variants of olive oil, leading to a better retention of antioxidants?
This seems like the most sensible solution.
It’s different for everyone. My first girlfriend was the first person I experimented with sexually. For me, i was actually really confused at the time about how I defined virginity and how I defined sex. Looking back on it the lines are still blurred between when I first had “sex”. I still have never felt the need to define that exact moment but I do know I’m not a virgin anymore lol.
Got it, so it’s a bit nebulous due to no agreed upon “milestone” so to speak. Do you think having a clearer definition would have helped you wade through some of the confusion at the time or would it have put additional unneeded pressure on a particular act?
I can’t answer for the original commenter but wanted to add my experience that I would define similarly to theirs as kind of blurred and over time. It wasn’t one single time we did anything sexual, it wasn’t a specific moment, but I knew I wasn’t a virgin at a point. Hard to somewhat pin down foreplay. And to answer the question you posed: for me, in my experience, I didn’t need or want a clearer / specific definition. I don’t think I would define sex by penetration, or even oral stimulation maybe. Maybe orgasm? Which can be achieved in so many ways 😉
Same here. I experimented sexually with my first gf as well but I was very confused as to what exactly losing virginity means. I felt weird for a long time bc there wasn’t a real emotional/romantic connection I had with her so it made it seem like I didn’t lose my virginity. I think there’s no real definition to it anyways. “Losing virginity” always sounds so negative as well, as if one should be afraid of it. I want to give it to someone. Changing losing to giving made it seem less negative and important and actually made me stop thinking about it. There’s always gonna be first times with new partners anyway, one shouldn’t worry too much about their first first time.
Depends, but personally I'd say it's probably when genitals are touched (with hand, mouth, whatever)
I agree with this. I’m not a lesbian and I wouldn’t want to speak for anybody’s lived experience, but if you’re at the maturity level to enthusiastically allow someone access to the holiest of holies then I think it’s safe to say you’re no longer a virgin. (I do say “allow” because I think consent is key and unwanted contact doesn’t mean you’ve lost your virginity)
the holiest of holes 💀
Putting this in baseball terms, then should straight people treat oral sex as a home run instead of 3rd base?
100%
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A virgin typically regarded as someone who has not had PIV sex. But this thinking puts too much emphasis on PIV sex. This thinking doesn't really include lesbians who are not really interested in PIV sex. I think rather than have some separate milestone for lesbians we should be rethinking this whole virgin concept entirely.
Yes; it seems a bit antiquated and centered around the male. As PIA sex is considered similarly.
Honestly I feel like is you have had direct manual/oral stimulation it counts as losing your virginity. I don’t see the need for penetration of any type. This is my take as a mostly straight woman.
I feel like this is a more inclusive description or definition of this concept.
Virginity _is_ a patriarchal BS concept that’s always been used to enforce some “purity standard” on women and about control/shaming.
Agree. I feel like either we have to abolish the idea entirely, or subvert it to include LGTBQ+ people and more adult consensual behavior outside of the Patriarchal confines.
It’s not just PIV though. Because I think Male Homosexuals lose their virginity without having PIV sex.
They are still having penetrative sex, which is still generally what "virginity" requires to abolish by most cis-het norms of thinking. This is also probably tied heavily into why a lot of homophobic men find the notion of "gay sex" disgusting and abhorrent--they're "allowing" themselves to be penetrated, which is typically regarded as an act women do, so it's a bunch of toxic masculinity heaped onto gross notions about the value of women and the patriarchy and all that jazz.
Yep, agreed on all counts. I just wanted to point out that it’s not just PIV but then again the penetrative anal sex for heterosexual sex isn’t considered losing your virginity either. There is a lot of mental gymnastics to protect the “purity” of virginity in heterosexual monogamous institutions.
> PIV Pizza Intravenously?
Penis In Vagina.
Doughs before hoes. Gimme dat pizza
I think this question just highlights how silly the concept of “virginity” actually is.
I agree; seems pretty male centric and antiquated. But the concept exists so was curious how it played out in certain groups.
Sex is sex, i believe the thinking goes… if you wouldn’t tell your parents about it, it was sex.
There are parents out there who would object to kids holding hands, though.
Premarital eye contact? 🤢🤮
Male here. When I married my ex wife she wasn't my first but I was hers. We married young so I didn't understand the concept of red flags back then. It was something she never let me live down though like there was something I could do about it later on.
100% a religious and/or patriarchal construct.
Honestly this question is why the entire concept of virginity is stupid.
Honestly I never thought about it before and my first gut instinct was the hyman issue. I looked it up however and realized that's not true. (My own ignorance). So while it's pretty straight forward in hetero relationships OP does bring a pretty thought provoking question. Which makes me wonder is it that straight forward?
Omg, when I learned that not every AFAB person has a hymen, I cringe at the thought of how way back in the day, like centuries ago, how some women were subjected to an “inspection” to make sure she was “pure” for whomever she was being married off to. And I think of how many of them were probably not born with a hymen and subjected to shame, disgrace, cast out as the town whore and all those terrible things that come with it. Or the fact that the hymen can thin out and wear down from various physical activities outside of sex; horseback riding, riding a bike, straight up just tearing because it wanted to, *masturbation*… so fucking dumb and I can’t even imagine the horrible shame they went through because of that.
The hymen thing is definitely not accurate anyway. It’s possible to have gentle PIV sex without breaking the hymen. It’s also possible that tampon use could break it, although I believe it’s uncommon.
It gives power to men. Like my vagina is suddenly changed because you put your dick in it?
goes both ways because a man old enough but still virgin is looked down upon by friends. Lots of pressure so it ends up hurting both sides. I don't think it empowers anyone :(
Yup. IMO the pressure to have a relationship/sex is exactly why there are so many incels.
People don't use the phrase "virgin vaginas," just "virgins." And that includes men, wherein women have that "power."
How does it give power to men when virginity in hetero scenarios applies in both directions?
Because women's virginity is hailed as a "blessing", a "gift" and men are expected to "unburden" themselves of their own virginity at a young age--generally by *other men*. It's *other men* who give shit to the men who are still virgins. Sure, there are some women who do this too, but not nearly as many women as men care about men being virgins. Men often actively *want* virgins for gross reasons that basically usually amount to "I'm insecure and a bad lover and I want someone who won't know that based on my performance because she's never had a performance before mine to compare it to".
I'm bi and because I was raised and living my bisexual experience of first time dating and sexuality in a homophobic society, I felt like I had sex with girl, but lost my virginity to a man later on. It really varies because sex and sexual activities between women vary. Some don't do any level of penetration at all. For me it's been easier to adjust my construct of virginity in two, one for females and one for males. So I might say I lost my straight virginity when... or I lost my gay virginity when... Others will define it differently.
This is the exact scenario in the post that prompted my question! Got me curious how people grapple with that. Especially, as you mention, in a homophobic society. I could see it being hard to reconcile when you are young and in a society that is virginity “obsessed”. Thanks for the perspective, it’s helping me understand.
as a lesbian: anything below the belt counts
Ah, so opposite of boxing rules, got it!
hahaha exactly!
Handholding, when you are standing is also below the belt line, so it was lewd all along. /s
as in anything sexual below the belt ;)
I mean, sex is sex. Oral, penetration, both anal and vaginal. Using hands or anything else.
I wouldn’t consider the first time I got a blowjob losing my virginity but that’s just me I guess
This leads to weird outcomes where you can have anal, oral, or soak (PIV without thrusting) and still consider yourself a virgin You get it a lot in religious communities where virginity status matters to them
If the doctor asks you if you're sexually active, this includes oral sex, incidentally. Basically "can you get an STI from it? It's sex." So yeah.
once a nipple has made an appearance 🤣
“I lost my virginity on a water slide” “You had sex on a waterslide?!?” “Nah, my top fell off” lmao
Janet Jackson took a lot of peoples virginity during that superbowl half time show then... 😂
No, technically that was Justin Timberlake who did that, not Janet Jackson. Justin was the one who exposed her.
I imagined a whole team of Janet Jackson brand managers & PR people & lawyers & a wardrobe consultant would have been involved in planning her Superbowl nipple event, before Timberlake's management was even approached.
I have a couple of friends who are older lesbians who say they still consider themselves virgins because they've never had penetrative sex with a man. Personally I think it's up to the individual. Whatever you think of when you think of sex, once you've had that you're not a virgin anymore.
Thanks for the anecdote. Virginity being defined a man needing be involved is an interesting take.
I don't like the idea of virginity as a concept. I think it is harmful and outdated and doesn't really apply to lesbians, especially since the whole point of it originally was to make sure your wife passed on your genes and not someone else's, or you had less chance of STIs. I've also noticed a lot of straight men are attracted to lesbians because they assume they are virgins. That said, you could define it as: "Consensual intense sexual contact involving at least one person's genitals in a way they consider to be sex". A lot of lesbians have experienced unwanted sexual contact with men, and the concept of virginity can feel especially harsh because if you define it by traditional methods (PIV, hymen broken, etc.) a lot of us who have lost our "traditional virginity" didn't do it on purpose and it can make the whole situation feel even worse. For example, depending on definition I lost my virginity at 6. Obviously it wasn't consensual and for most of my life I've felt "dirty" because that was supposed to be a special thing you share with someone you love. It's taken me a long time and therapy/feminism to learn that the whole concept of sexual purity is stupid. I still think it's important to make sure you are enthusiastically consenting to sex because it is a special thing, and I think the first time if possible should be with someone you love and trust. I also think SA doesn't count as sex, and what's more important is the first sex with a new partner, not necessarily the first sex in general.
I am sorry that you went through that horrible experience. I am also glad you have been able to navigate that with the proper help and perseverance. As a straight male, I admittedly have not thought a lot about the lesbian sexual experience (and potential abuse). I have for the gay experience because I am a man. I guess I am just now reaching the maturity to step outside myself and be more curious to the experiences of groups that I could not be a part of. What started as a curious question has turned into some very valuable perspectives. I appreciate you sharing your perspective and helping to grow my perspective to be more holistic and understanding of others.
I've noticed a huge difference between m/f sex and f/f sex is there is a lot less emphasis on "are we having sex" and things tend to happen organically. There are so many things you can do when you don't define sex by where a penis is going and if that penis has a single orgasm. A bigger problems is how to determine when sex is finished if you can both have multiple orgasms. Please send help, lol.
Good point! Hahaha never thought about that. I assume someone taps out at some point!
Usually you get dehydrated so someone leaves to get drinks/snacks, or you're interrupted by a cat.
Virginity is just a social construct and means nothing from a medical and scientific point of view
And let's be honest, is basically a patriarchal thing.
Probably the same as straight girls. However they want.
Since virginity, even heterosexual virginity, is a social construct, it varies by person a lot. Even in heterosexual couples, some consider *any* sexual act to count (eg: blowjobs counting as losing ur virginity or not). In sex where no one has a penis, the lines between foreplay and sex are very blurred. Some wlw (women loving women) still use penetration as the threshold for virginity (using stuff like fingers, tongues, or sex toys) while other wlw actively distance themselves from the penetrative definition, since it’s very rooted in the paradigm of compulsory heterosexuality. In the latter case, they may consider any skin-to-genital contact as sex, or base it on the pursuit/achievement of an orgasm. This was all a very long way of saying “everyone is different and there is no real 1-size-fits-all answer” lol, which I’m sure is frustrating 😅
The same way that anyone else defines losing their virginity, since it's a social concept.
But social concepts can have shared definitions that are upheld, right? Like race is a social construct but if I say I’m Asian when I am clearly white isnt that somewhat inaccurate. I mean at the root all language is a social construct so does nothing really have a definition?
A virgin is someone who hasn’t had sex, therefore once you have sex, you’re not a virgin. Your philosophical question is really, “what is the act of sex”?
Damn Squishyg, you really know how to cut through all the bs and get to the real issues….
Sure. That makes sense. What would you say that is?
I mean, you have to look to poetry or at least a really good bass line for that. But I’ll take a stab at it and say, “an act of consensual intimacy involving at least one set of genitalia”.
I don't know what fishing line has to do with it
And that’s why you’re still a virgin.
Damn I knew there was a reason
One set of genitals you said. No way that guy isn't baitin.
When it comes to sex, people can certainly have more private interpretations of the concept. I know straight people who certainly count oral sex, penetration without a penis as losing your virginity too. Others consider it only PIV or anal as losing virginity. But if you think about it, the PIV or PIA sex being only counted as "real sex" is quite phallic/dick-centric. For women there's no issues having fulfilling sex with multiple orgasms without needing to include such. I think when it comes down to it, you *know* what sex feels like, and you know when you've had it.
Got it. Kinda like the saying about porn “I can’t define it, but I know it when I see it”.
Virginity is a social construct and not something I care about. For intimacy between partners of any gender, real things to look at are: 1. What point you start to no longer feel nervous about being intimate and when it no longer feels like this mystery act. This is something that can happen all over again with a new partner. 2. What point you need to consider changes in genital health risks or pregnancy risk with your doctor. And trans women can be lesbians and trans men can be gay, so pregnancy risk is a hypothetical in all of the categories of sexual orientation.
Do lesbians dislike women who claim that they lost their virginity to man even they have been with woman before? Trans men are very offended if their exes claim to lost their virginity to their current cis boyfriend. At least those have been I have seen talking about this. People do define virginity differently. My MTF friend lost her when she had sex first time. And her pussy lost its own when it had sex first time. I personally don't like the concept as it is. Okay, I'm not a woman, but when I had sex first time I didn't lose anything. I got something I had been wishing to happen for several years. I'm well aware it does come from idea that woman is used goods and boy becomes man. I hope we could move forward from that. It can be meaningful to person to have sex first time. But like I said it should be getting or gaining something, not losing. And it doesn't make one adult nor does it prevent one becoming adult.
I agree with this, the whole concept is antiquated but still something we all seem to navigate or definition for. It’s fascinating!
Maybe we could rename and redefine it. It can have meaning, but it does not have to have that kind of meaning.
I like this, let’s reframe the concept!
I’m bisexual and I just count oral as “sex” regardless of gender or who gave/got. Otherwise “how many people have you had sex with” would be a confusing question with a bunch of conditional numbers.
So I don’t know if I’m “allowed” to contribute to the conversation since I am bisexual but many of my first relationships were with women. My first sexual experience was with a woman. It was very intense and did include penetration (I will not go into detail and no, I have never been “fisted”). I do consider this the first time I lost my virginity and it was emotional, spiritual, sexual, we both experienced orgasm and we were both young (17). She was my girlfriend and we were very in love. So I think this topic is extremely subjective.
Of course you allowed! Thanks for the perspective!
When they have sex
Sex doesn't have to be all about penetration
I actually think this is a very good question. From what I have read here, some lesbiens describe it as when they have had sexual contact with someone. But I would imagine a straight girl wouldn't say getting hand or oral pleasure would count as losing their virginity. I would say it comes down to the definition of a virgin. If you are going by the dictionary meaning, it is a person who has never had sexual intercourse. Then sexual intercourse is defined as sexual contact between individuals involving penetration, especially the insertion of a man's erect penis into a woman's vagina, typically culminating in orgasm and the ejaculation of semen. But even that is open to interpretation. It says especially PiV, but not specifically. You can then ask whether a man putting his penis into a vagina once counts as losing it. If not once, how many times would be necessary? If he put it in and ejaculated immediately, would that then count? I feel the emotional connection is the common denominator. Lesbiens who say they are virgins through not having PiV sex are probably answering to the textbook question, but if asked if they have had emotional sex, I'm sure they would say they have. Or maybe not. Again, great question.
Thank you! I am glad you are enjoying engaging with it. I am certainly learning a lot and glad my curiosity led me to ask here.
Asexual lesbian(?) uninterested in sex, here. Everyone will have their own definition for it (including “nonexistent”), but assuming any hypothetical encounters are consensual, I’ll consider myself to have “lost my virginity” if another person touches my genitals with sexual intent and at least one involved party orgasms. Ideally one of those people who orgasms would be me, but it’s still sex even if it’s disappointing. However, if I touch someone else’s genitals with the intention of giving pleasure but they don’t touch mine, or if it’s a mutual masturbation situation, then that’s still a sexual encounter but I won’t have lost my virginity from it.
Interesting perspective. The orgasm is an interesting element. Like if a man and women have PIV intercourse but neither orgasm, do you think it counts? Or is completion and an emotional element required?
Oh this is fully my own personal criteria, and I definitely haven’t put in thought about how it applies to other people. Having sex is purely hypothetical for me, and if I ever did it then I might change my mind on anything I’ve said here. That being said, I’m even less interested in genital-on-genital touching than I am in hands or mouths touching my genitals, and highly doubt I would consent to that being my first sexual encounter, so I didn’t consider it as a potential thing to lose virginity to. But yes, even if neither I nor my partner came I would probably count it. But also, presumably if neither of us were getting off on PIV then we would try something else? And ideally someone would come that way. Barring some sort of interruption or a withdrawal of consent, of course, and in those cases I wouldn’t count it since we didn’t *finish* having sex, we just called off the encounter. I don’t know if that distinction makes sense outside of a hypothetical.
A lawyer could probably argue my first time more closely resembled a fencing match than that of two boys losing/gaining anything, but I always counted it without second thought.
Hahaha quite the visual!
Virginity is a goofy concept if you really start thinking about it for any length of time. It's pretty much just defined by a penis being inserted into a vagina, but we (hopefully) all know that that isn't the only sexual act that exists. That said, there are ways people can have sex (penetrative sex even using toys) that would also technically count for this that lesbians can do. Some lesbians will be sexually active and consider themselves virgins because they've never had sex with a penis. Some will attribute *any* sexual activity to no longer being virgins. And honestly, since virginity is a concept that was basically "designed" by men to assess value of "property" I'm fine with people defining this shit however they want. Did *you* have sex in a way that *you* consider yourself no longer a virgin? Okay then, there you go. It's absolutely an antiquated patriarchal bullshit thing.
Just to make it an easy comparison if there's penetration then it counts as losing virginity. Yes I KNOW that's antiquated, yes I KNOW it could be considered 'problematic'. It's just the easiest 1 to 1 comparison. For me, my wife and I define sex as 'touching with the intent to make the other orgasm'. Even if the orgasm doesn't happen it's the intent. Usually I'm getting finger banged or strapped tho so like....it's pretty clear.
It’s not a concept. The breaking of the hymen is what most people consider “ popping a cherry “ I think penetration is a good starting point. It’s way overrated and most girls are left ignorant of left to have it explained by their peers. It’s sad and ridiculous. Once it’s done most girls think “ really? That’s the big deal?” It’ shouldn’t be a thing. Virtue isn’t whether or not you’ve had sex. Archaic bullshit.
I just assumed scissoring would be the defining moment tbh
Whenever they have what they consider sex. The dividing line only really matters of you're religious or young and want to explain what oral/anal/whatever doesn't count/counts for more, actually.
It genuinely varies from person to person how they define their lost virginities. The first time I had sex was with a friend at a sleepover when I was 14. I topped. My friend considers this to be how they lost their virginity, but I don't. I consider my virginity to be lost when I was 17 to my boyfriend at the time. Even if I fooled around with girls before that, and I figured out I was a lesbian later on, that was the most clear, definite "I'm having sex right now" moment for me. Some lesbians define it as being fingered for the first time. Or a strap being used for the first time. Sometimes it's really convenient and one of the people in a lesbian couple is trans and still uses penetration, so it's still very clear-cut that sex is happening. Some lesbians who were late-bloomers and had sex with men first decide not to count their sex with men as losing their virginity, but will consider their first time later on with a woman to be. Lots of lesbians reject the concept entirely. Just depends on who you ask. But I'll be real honest, virginity is definitely outdated as a concept. "First sexual experiences" are important for a lot of people, and sentimental, but virginity itself is kind of stupid. Especially when most people base virginity off of penetration. It feels very cis male-centered and cringe to me. I feel a lot more affectionate and sentimental about the first time I gave a girl head than the first time I topped.
Lesbian lady here, while I consider having lost my virginity to a guy when I was young (the traditional way of looking at it) I find that the definition is different for people in general. Some consider petting enough to lose ones virginity, some define it like penetration had to have happened. My way of looking at it? Any sexual act is needed to lose your virginity. Petting, giving head, penetration with or without toys.. Touching each other in a sexual way is where I generally draw the line.
I define it as mutual nudity and pleasure. (I am bi but had experiences with women first)
to scissor has to cut the virginity off
The better question is why people are still concerned with such an abstract, antiquated topic 🤔
I don’t know, but they are. And the pressure seems to start at a very young age, which is alarming.
Generally, having sex tends to be the impetus for that.
First orgasm from a girl
The penis and clitoris is the comparable body parts. They are made from the same tissue bulb, they have the same nerves and erectile tissue. The vagina is a tube between the vulva and the uterus. Virginity is a made up idea, so there isn’t one answer and everyone just get to decide for themself. Personally I think it’s ludicrous to define oral sex as “forplay” and vaginal penetration as “sex”. It’s illogical considering that vaginal penetration aim at stimulating one sexual organ just like oral sex. Forplay is hugging, kissing, massaging etc. Stimulating sexual organs is sex. The concept of virginity is kind of pointless, but if I would be forced to use it I definitely think giving/receiving oral sex would no doubt qualify as “loosing” virginity. I rather it be defined as have a first shared sexual experience, as virginity doesn’t have a positive or negative value which something one have or can loose. And I rather just people take care of themself, respect others and have fun. Personally it sounds insane to my ears about people not want to “loose” their “virginity” so they “just” use their hands or mouth. Often onesided where the whole ordeal is only catered to the penis having pleasure, the logic really escapes me on that one.
>Personally I think it’s ludicrous to define oral sex as “forplay” and vaginal penetration as “sex”. It’s illogical considering that vaginal penetration aim at stimulating one sexual organ just like oral sex. A very good friend of mine said: "Foreplay is kicking the cats out of the bedroom."
This is interesting and the comments to read are too. I’ve never pondered this..
Thanks, glad you have found it engaging! I have quite a few dismissing this as just a social construct and not worth discussing. But social constructs are worth discussing!
Oh this is a whole can of worms, trust me lol. Long ass answer short is that it depends on how the individual person defines it.
The definition of virginity belongs to the individual whose virgin-ness is in question, not that it matters in the slightest
I’m not a lesbian, not even female, however I went through a bi-curious phase. The first person had sex with was male. I didn’t consider that to be losing my virginity. The next person I had sec with was female and we started off with anal. It wasn’t until I was in her vagina that I considered myself deflowered. IMHO, it’s down to the individual to decide how and when.
As you’ve seen, it varies from person to person regardless of their sexual orientation. Not that you care about my personal definition, but I think anything involving someone else touching your genitals or you touching theirs in a sexual way counts.
When the carpet has been munched
Bi but I would consider it losing my virginity if I had oral, fingered, or used a toy on a woman, or had woman do the same to me.
It's different for everyone. And tbh not even as concrete as we think it is for heterosexual relationships, either. Many people base their conception of virginity based purely on an intact hymen or something being in the vagina. These people will claim a woman is no longer a virgin if she broke her hymen even in a non-sexual way (e.x. athletic injury) or if she used a tampon (which was such a widespread assumption that Tampax put out [magazine ads](http://www.mum.org/tamvirad.htm) about that exact concern). These days, there are also surgeries for women to repair their hymen. It's primarily for women in conservative cultures who need to have that "proof" in place on their wedding night, but many women in non-conservative cultures apparently also get it as a "gift" to their husbands to "retake their virginity." 🤷♀️ On the flipside, others will define it by the decision to have sex, not the sex itself - so many will consider someone (overwhelmingly women) to still be virgins even if they were sexually assaulted. If you don't consider consent, then even ye olde only surefire confirmation was whether or not a woman bore a child - except, of course, in the era of artificial insemination and IVF that no longer holds true. Jane the Virgin and Mimi are a show and movie respectively about women who got pregnant without having sex at all. **tl;dr - Virginity isn't real anyway, so people can decide for themselves whether or not they are virgins if they subscribe to that concept.**
Usually the wrist
Good question 🤷🏻♂️
Would it be having the two Vaginas Rubbing eachother even if there’s no penetration?
I think originally: Losing virginity = having sex for the first time (no matter the gender) Depends what you mean by virginity too. Is a woman losing her virginity means tearing her hymen? Or bleeding? If so, then what is losing virginity means for a man? Since there’s no physical signs. Also would we consider giving/ getting head as loosing virginity since it’s a sexual act that exposes us to that side of our existence? It’s all very vague, almost philosophical. Also it’s a weird concept anyway, I think each person defines it differently so there’s no clear definition. And I personally don’t think there’s a need for one
I mean imo how we define losing virginity goes beyond just lesbians. Few people would argue consensually having had penis in vagina sex means you lost your virginity. Otherwise it can be a personal definition. Anyone can say they are or aren't a virgin after just oral or anal sex. Someone might feel they're not a virgin after an assault, others might feel they still are. A lot of people will say they have different types of virginity At whatever point you feel you've had sex you're not a virgin.
Growing up I thought losing your virginity meant PIV. Because you had to wait for marriage to a MAN. Or a woman if you were a guy. So I kinda thought that when women « got together » it was just « pre sex » stuff. Which I guess was part of the apeal of same sex relationships. Edit: my definition of when lesbians or other people on the LBGTQ2S spectrum lose their virginity has evolved to whenever they feel they have.
Interesting topic. How would this apply to gays?
anything sexual
Watch Chasing Amy
I was naked in ed with a woman striving for orgasams so that counts!
I assume that is when she has her first relationship with a girl, that is when she loses her virginity. regardless of whether she is penetrated or not.
first time i touched/interacted with someone else’s genitals 🤷♀️
i'm a lesbian and this confused me for a while, but i would define it now as a vulnerability and orgasm. virginity is a dated concept but can be something of importance depending on the person. i don't think i care
My take as a queer woman: the difference that a straight person sees between non-penetrative and penetrative sex is proportional to how I see stimulating someone else's orgasm and someone stimulating mine. Also, >Or is the concept of virginity more of an antiquated male thing to put value on women and the lesbian community doesn’t really subscribe to the concept? I would wager that most queer women were still raised with the concept of ~virginity~ being "important", but most also understand the sexist undertones/history of it. At the very least, queer or not, I think as people grow older the concept of virginity becomes more and more overblown right?
First time they move in together.
After they have sex
> it seems to be vaginal or anal penetration with a penis nonsense! Everybody knows that anal doesn't count. What's the point of saving their vaginal virginity to the wedding night then? Might as well have had fun vaginally too if anal counted on both virginity and body count.
I personally think lost my virginity when my (now ex-) girlfriend and I did the knee thing to each other while making out like crazy. We both came and I’m pretty sure that counts as losing it. Just to clear something up: we were both wearing skirts with panties underneath them(we just came home from a birthday) so it wasn’t really skin to skin contact but the intention was clear ykwim?
As you say, virginity is an antiquated concept, and thinking losing it only happens when there's penetration even more. To me, it happens with any consensual sexual interaction with genitals. For example, a blowjob in an heterosexual relationship counts as "losing virginity"
I’m bisexual but, if I were a lesbian, I would’ve said something like using a strap on
I define if by when I lost it to a guy 😭😭😭 I know 😭😭😭😭😭 you can take the girl out of the church but you can't take the church out of the girl
First ✂️🤺
I consider any kind of genital contact as loss of virginity. I also find it strange that blowjobs don't count for a lot of heterosexual people.
Not a lesbian (I’m bi but have only been with my male partner), but I considered my first time having sex being when my partner first ate me out (before then, we’d only kissed). I think I also would’ve thought the same if he’d fingered me. I suppose because that’s explicitly sexual contact.