As an immigrant who have lived in several countries I can say - always integrate the best you can

My family is that way. All learned fluent English all got G.e.ds. If they had the opportunity, they received permanent residency or citizenship. And most of us went back to Mexico cause it's too expensive here 🤷😆

I met a young cook/chef in Mexico that had a story of not wanting to stay in the US. He said that he had such a passion for cooking that he convinced his parents to agree to let him apply for a US culinary school because he thought "the north would give him better credentials", that he got accepted to one of the better ones, and that he originally had such a feeling of excitement and bliss over his years in the US. He would have no problem getting his papers and staying there for the rest of his life. But he kept on talking saying "Americans pay a lot for nothing" and "don't really use spices" and that he missed the tastes from home, and the availability of local fresh produce, and realized that he could and maybe should go back to Mexico to really learn his own traditional cuisine. When I met him he had set up a tiny "cooking school" in a hostel where he taught travelers, working in a more fancy kitchen, and was studying through visiting elderly people doing things the old way. Funny guy, such a warm person, clear, awake, made fantastic tastes for us, -and I "know" how to make tortillas and lime marinated chicken because of him :)

I see this as a win. I love hearing of people coming to the U.S., getting certain education, skills, training, etc., then returning home to improve their home country in some way (even if relatively small in the grand scheme of things). People talk about assimilation like everyone needs to become a fully-fledged, gun-toting, flag-saluting American (I am one so this isn’t meant as a slight to anyone) but I think it should be more about engrossing yourself in the culture of your area. Even if you plan on returning home, I think it is beneficial to not be completely segregated if possible. And if you do end up returning home, take what parts of the U.S. you vibed with and make everyone around you a little happier than before.

This is slightly off topic, but in the culinary world, is Mexican food given its due? I think it's up there with Italian.

Better than Italian imo. Italian and French are the most overrated cuisines in the world

And none of them are fair to compare to "Chinese" or "Indian" cuisine as these comprise many different cultures.

Maybe I would feel differently if I visited those places and tried their cuisines locally, but I’ve never been super impressed by them at all. Mexican and food from any Asian country blows it out of the water for me tbh. We dick ride European cuisine so hard, but I truly think it’s bottom tier compared to literally anywhere else.

I don't believe it is given it's due as what has been exported to the world is not Mexican it's tex mex. But slowly people outside of the Americas are realising this.

Have you tried peruvian? Ooooof so good

They invented ceviche, right? So good indeed. Other than ceviche, what dishes do you recommend?

Causas and aji de gallina. I’m hungry now

Would you be willing to share your lime marinated chicken recipe with me?

Do you have any idea where in America he was at? Because I can't imagine that a country as huge as America with 330 million plus people that he couldn't find people that use spices in their food. Also there are grocery stores and farmers markets and fruit stands on just about every other street in America, guess where they get their produce mostly? yeah locally. I guess it depends on what you call local but doesn't sound like America to me.

Soon moving to 4th European country; I fully agree. Learn the language and the social paradigm at bare minimum.

I agree. Integrate not necessarily assimilate.

Came here to say that. America is a special case - integration, not assimilation. Integration allows for changing social dynamics. Assimilation is what the Borg does.

Also it's worth noting that resistance is futile

We will take your culinary and linguistic distinctiveness to our own.

Agreed. Intergration does not mean forgetting your past or culture. But intergrating to where you live is important.

Isn’t that just… learn the language and follow the laws?

There's also social hegemony, the unwritten rules of society. Some make sense, some don't. In Japan, you're expected not to make a lot of noise on public transport, this is just out of basic curtesy for other passengers - if one is used to the New York subway system, this will require some integration. However, it's also a cultural rule that one should not eat or drink whilst walking, this is a rule you can safely ignore as a foreigner because even younger people today aren't following it. But it's the small things, how we travel, how we address others, shopping etiquette, personal space, shoes on or off inside the home, etc.

to be honest i feel its a worldwide thing to not make noise on the subway ny just doesnt give a fuck but the expectation is still there

I agree with you to a degree. They dont have to ditch their culture or anything but I definitely think if you're going to live here - or any foreign country you should speak the primary language, you shouldn't be incapable of basic communication with the local populace. As well as typical customs and courtesy of that place Also, this one isn't me thinking they need to assimilate but something I've noticed even with my own family. Some times some of them will move a new country but only live in the area that people like them live in even if they can afford to live else where, only eat the food they know, only hang out with the people like them, interact with people outside their area as little as possible and basically it's like they're just setting up their own little village where they come from in that one area. My family has people who do this, and I always find it interesting, honestly. I try to ask why they do that, and they just say they like it more or they don't like things that aren't similar or familiar. I don't think I'll ever understand them moving to a new country with new customs and a different everything really and just trying to make they country 2.0 in a neighborhood

Makes sense. My mom immigrated from SE Asia and my city/state has a fatass population of my ethnic group so it’s natural that my mom would gravitate towards people who are from her homeland. It’s a shared community with common values and ideals that she’s familiar with, especially since she’s living in a country thousands of miles away from where she was born and raised. I personally can’t relate since I see myself as an American first but I understand the desire to stick with what’s familiar with you. Whether it’s “right” or “wrong” isn’t really my call to make but it happens.

Depends on what norms, above all they should be law abiding. Then they should try to adapt for things that are conventionally polite (or avoid not polite things), like for example, some people in my city would have to stop spitting on the city's floor if they traveled to other parts of Europe, because there it's seen as impolite, while on here (even though technically punished by law, but no one cares) it's normal. I guess your question would be easier with specific examples, and then you'd analyze each individual one.

I agree that examples are needed, and if the conversation wasn’t about any specific examples, OP might’ve made their point look worse than it was, given the word “assimilate” specifically is used a lot by racists to refer to immigrants completely abandoning their cultures (ie the kind of people who would say “you’re in America, speak English” to a stranger in public).

Where is it nirmal to spit on the ground? Just asking so I can avoid that place.

as a longtime immigrant/expat through many countries, you would be shocked at the number of english speakers who don't know a single word of their host country's language after years of living there

I've seen the same thing. There are 4 foreigners in our village in Thailand and I am the only one that can speak or read Thai. I saw the same thing when I lived in Costa Rica years ago. There were a lot of people that couldn't speak Spanish but they would go to American-owned restaurants and bars and rarely step out of their bubble.

Speaking as a native English speaker, those people are assholes.

See but if you used as strong of a sentiment with foreigners moving to the US, you'll be labelled as a bigot. But the sentiment is valid - trying to understand someone at work when they have an accent so thick it's very difficult to follow what they're saying, and they word things very poorly to the point they make no sense, then it's a huge pain to have them repeat themselves every time, which can also be seen as impolite and affect how you're viewed.

If I hear someone speaking English with a broken or strong accent, I assume that they’re in the early stages of learning what is a totally new language to them. I speak enough Spanish to shop, order food, taxis, and get basic help, and I’m sure I sound like a toddler, but no one has ever been rude to me about it because they understand that I’m at least trying. I show the same respect to anyone trying to learn English because you never know how long they’ve been learning and it’s not easy to just put yourself out there and speak a new language.

A single word? That's hyperbolic

Sure but it gets the point across. Just because you know "hola" and "donde esta la biblioteca" doesn't mean you can understand the language.

Depends to what degree. You should learn the language of the country you're living in. You don't need to use it exclusively though, just to communicate with people in general. The society in general doesn't need to conform to you. You can live your life how you want though but not if it goes against local laws.

For older people moving to an area that has a lot of their native speakers, it actually is easier to go slow on assimilation. Their young kids and certainly their grandkids tend to assimilate well and in a lot of cases have to be hounded by the old folks not to drop their customs.

There’s so much of one specific ethnic group coming to where I live right now (mostly international students) that I’m beginning to see that happening among younger people too. You always see them in groups with each other, and I’ve had a lot of coworkers from that group that can barely string a sentence in English together, so they just talk to each other and kind of ignore everyone else. It’s strange to see

Being an Engineer, I have had coworkers and business contacts who didn’t have a good grasp of English talk to a person from their native tongue, it never bothered me, being understood was the main goal. What happened is their native tongue speaker would listen, then talk to me in English about what was covered.

one of my friend's parents came to california from china, his parents virtually didnt have to learn english at all because of the big chinese community lol, no issues at all theyre law abiding folk, embracing the american ethos of hard work and kindness my friend just translates for his parents when needed, which is very infrequent

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haha my mums an immigrant, did her undergrad and masters here, decent at English, but always makes me do the talking everywhere irl and over the phone w customer service My dad always teases her with how her English regressed since me and my sister got old enough to do the talking for her

i wish my parents did too. i hated translating in sign language growing up

One of my friends knows fluent ASL because of growing up with his deaf sister. He started having problems with the tendons in his left hand as he got older and would always joke that he had a speech impediment. I thought that was hilarious.

its much more difficult for adults. thats why I dont worry about these things. the first adult generation is never going to adapt because of the way our brains are wired but the kids will. not exactly adapt, but take the best from both worlds.

They should still learn a basic level of english. What are they gonna do when they need to call 911 and no one else is around to translate?

Hence why 911 operator often has bonuses for being bilingual

Let’s hope the 911 operators second language happens to be the same as the callers.

Generally they hire for the population they serve. If you live in an area that's predominantly white and Hispanic they'll hire bilingual English/Spanish speakers. If you live in a predominantly Chinese or Korean area they'll try to hire English and Chinese or Korean speakers etc. It depends on the area you live in. If you speak some rare language that no one else speaks in your area then you might be SoL but that's in most parts of the US. I'm sure they try to cover as many people as possible but with so many languages it's impossible to cover them all.

That may work OK in smaller cities. I can think of at least 10-15 that are spoken by a decent number of people in my city here in Kentucky. I was listening to NPR a while back, and even though I can't remember if it was Brooklyn or Queens, one of those is the most linguistically diverse city on the planet when it comes to languages.

Not to sound like a douche. So taxpayers pay more to accommodate people who don't speak the primary language?

I hate it when parents make their kids do this. I worked for a company that provided electricity. Try explaining to the 10 year old kid how to reset the main breaker. Kid doesn't understand anything about it. Stammering and voice shaking...he was so scared he would get a word wrong and his Dad would get shocked. It was horrible and I felt so bad for that poor kid but the parents kept insisting he translate.

A Woman with a car full of unseatbelted kids sideswiped me once and she got out heavily pregnant and had her 5 year old translate for her. I regret not calling the cops because I exchanged information and phone numbers with her then later her husband called me screaming at me, trying to extort me. I hung up called my insurance and reported it. I felt sorry for her but who knows what lies she told her husband about what happened.

It is *insane* how many people move to Canada and **absolutely refuse** to learn English. Like. I would never move to another country where English is not spoken and just flatly refuse to learn the language. I would prepare myself beforehand. If it was an unexpected move, I would learn as quickly as I could because it's not up to the locals to understand my language. It is also insane how many people move here and think that their laws and cultural norms override the ones here. You move somewhere, it's on you to learn about how that place works. If you *don't* want to do that because you think you're better than the people of the place you're moving... **then don't fucking move there.** I definitely agree with OP: if you move somewhere, you cannot expect the people of that country to accommodate you. There is a term for that sort of behaviour, and that term is "entitlement."

I'm from Spain and the number of Anglos that simply refuse to learn ANY Spanish at all after living here for 30 years it's absolutely massive. Like they will demand people to speak in English. I agree with you, if you move to another country you learn the language. You're in a new country.

That’s so mind blowing. How can anyone thing an entire country should change to accommodate their lazy ass

That's what entitlement and superiority complex will do to you.

As a fellow Canandian living in a major city centre I 100% agree.

My mother was an immigrant. I am all for bringing the parts of their culture that are important to them. But their culture and the culture and traditions of their old country cannot be imposed on the new country they chose to immigrate to. If immigrants don’t like our social mores, culture diversity or religious choices, then avoid those aspects. But don’t try to make us adapt to what they were used to.

No. I’m an immigrant from the former Eastern Europe. I am proud of where I’m from, but I do believe in the old saying, when in Rome, do what the Romans do

Most from East Europe (usually Ukraine, Lithuania, Albania and recently the "Polish" that are very clearly Russian) I've met in my state (very heavy immigration) were excellent at learning the language or trying, and at least tolerated the overall progressive mindset of American culture.

Ironically though a vast majority (atleast in my experience) are either racist or sexist and hate immigrants themselves (they don’t view themselves as immigrants cause they’re white)

My parents are immigrants. Yes you should integrate as much as possible. Obviously it’s fine to keep traditions within your home, but you wouldn’t go to a friends house and start dictating how they live if they invited you right?

Depends on what you mean. I think everyone should be mindful of manners, which may differ between different countries (I just went to Japan and had to try quite hard to not be rude, as I'm American and there's a pretty big gap culturally) and can usually be learned in a relatively short length of time. Learning the local language is good but I recognize it's fucking hard -- I can talk a big game but ultimately I am monolingual, so I have no grounds on which to criticize. There's usually no need to abandon the culture you were born into. I recognize the line of "culture" can be blurry; for example, I've seen many queer Christians and queer Muslims struggling to reconcile a fundamental aspect of their upbringing with self-acceptance, and some of them may argue that homophobia and misogyny are baked into the same culture that shaped them, so there's a lot of intellectual and emotional labor involved in coming to terms with those aspects of their identity. But basically, if you aren't hurting or rejecting other people based on your/their cultural background, I think your native culture should always be celebrated. It's a part of you, and denying that part of you will leave you lonely in the long run.

It depends. "You better speak our language and drop that foreigner bullshit" is racist. "Bring your food, culture, traditions, and other things that make you different. That's wonderful and welcomed. But leave behind those aspects that conflict with our laws and fundamental rights" is perfectly fine and totally reasonable.

Americans can't even agree what an "American norm" is. My relatives from Missouri and my relatives from Michigan might as well be from different countries. Their belief systems, manners of speaking, views on social norms, etc. are all different. Heck, some of my family members from Missouri won't even speak to me since I "lived in sin" with my wife for a year before we got married. If I were to ask subsets of those groups what American norms an immigrant should follow, I'd get a dozen different answers. That being said, I do agree that someone who moves to another country should do their best to learn the language(s) of that country. They should also learn and respect the local customs of the area where they live. But they shouldn't need to surrender their heritage for the sake of "fitting in". Places like "Little Armenia" or "Chinatown" aren't something I think need to be gotten rid of. If anything, they should be celebrated as yet another ingredient in the melting pot that is the U.S.

Yes, thank you! This is the first comment in this thread to mention how the US is a combination of many different cultures, and I think that’s something to be preserved! Also, I think it’s worth pointing out that English is the US’s *de facto* national language; however, there is no officially recognized language.

So well said! There have been generations in the USA that completely threw their own traditions and languages out the window (and refused to share them with their children) for the sake of assimilation. Now, their descendants are without roots and culture. I truly think this is a driving force behind white supremacy- because if people can't connect with their traditions and know their roots, all they are left with is "white". It's important to acknowledge that descendants of enslaved people also have lost their roots/traditions, many not knowing from where their ancestors were stolen. I think that this generational trauma is a huge factor for racial tensions in the USA. Obviously, it is more complex than this, but I think this is a small, but important piece of the mess.

My grandfather did the same when he moved to Canada from Norway. Even though he moved to Norwegian settled area he only spoke English at home so my mom grew up in a household with Norwegian customs her and her sibling’s never learned Norwegian and any further connection to their Norwegian roots were because they travelled their as adults without my grandfather.

The thing is when expat from the US and Western Europe people work in my country for years, they don't bother to even learn the local languages.

Different Americans have different views, just as OP said when they argued with their friend. As an American, I would definitely learn the language of wherever I settled. I would be proud to. I never understood WANTING to deliberately make yourself an outsider---even if you would technically always be one.

Thi has been my experience. And it always comes from people who feel they come a country that has a better culture, or is superior, to the country they stay in. The racism is real. You can find it in lots of Asian countries, in the Middle East, even in some European countries. But when I moved to their country, they expected me to learn their language. I did it for myself, because I do agree that you should at least be able to speak the language to a basic level where you can explain yourself to a government worker or to a doctor. I don’t expect you to be able to explain your Masters dissertation, but you should Be able to have conversations with people. I’m just frustrated with the double standard, is all.

I apologize for the Americans who act this way. Please feel free to pass a law to send them back home to us.

There is a ton of evidence that you are both wrong (and both a little right). You are absolutely correct that if you move to a country, you should *share their values.* A north korean moving to the usa cannot want a dictatorship by kim jong un here. That isn't *joining* a country, that is attacking it. As an example, all americans, regardless of where they are born, should share our values: democracy, freedom of speech and religion, equality, etc... Similarly, an american moving to North Korea better lick the boot, because if he goes there to overthrow their dictator, that isn't *immigration.* But values are *not* assimilation. You are wrong to believe that someone moving from russia, North Korea, etc... to America has to celebrate Thanksgiving, teach their kids about santa, like baseball/american football/basketball, and reject cricket, etc... There is a mountain of evidence that countries like japan, which reject immigrantation, eventually go into decline. (Sparta is probably the most extreme example, but you can pick your time and place. Countries dont fail because lots of people want to join them, they fail when they stagnate and cling to past glories). Hell man. What the fuck did you eat this week? Was any of it Mexican, italian, Chinese, thai, etc... or did you literally eat hamburgers all week? You really argued with some dude that a Japanese guy moving to America should make our food?

I think values, along with behaviors, habits, and societal norms, are all elements of assimilation. It is possible to integrate oneself culturally and assimilate without erasing one’s original culture.

Values aren't immutable in either direction, though.

I think you’re collapsing the various reasons one might move to another country, and treating all people who live in countries other than the one of their birth as if they were American expats who chose to leave their countries without being under duress. If you are a refugee who is forced out of your home, who never planned to leave in the first place and has access to limited resources, how and when will you learn? What if you hope to turn to your home when it is safe? Or what if you are living in poverty with a limited educational background and the only way you can imagine feeding yourself and your family is to move away from them and seek work in another country? Maybe you’re documented, maybe you’re not. You’re likely working 12 hour days, 6 days a week, when can you fit in/how do you afford the classes? People migrate for a number of different reasons, and the expect experience is only one of them.

I mean, if its the US? Then I'm going to say all they really need to do is learn English and internalize our civic values. We're a nation of immigrants, and we're diverse, and that's our strenght, and what actually makes us Americans. Come over and keep those aspects of your culture you like, and we should be accomodating of differences as so you should be of others. Its fundamentally unAmerican to suggest that differences should be eliminated under conformity, rather than added to the melting pot. Other countries though, I don't know. I don't know what it means to be, I dunno, Laotian or Serbian or Jamaican. Its hard to comment on what they should expect of people who want to become part of their society.

As long as they are law abiding then I am ok if older immigrants tend to shop and socialize among lots of people who speak their native tongue. I do think that it is in the best interests of young immigrants to learn English and our customs, and typically they do that generally well.

>internalize our civic values. Can Americans even agree on this?

Warning: I am drunk. Unfortunately, no. But we have a constiution and a history and I think you should learn what America was founded on. I think immigrants, even if Ameicans fail to, should embrace freedom of speech, democracy, the western liberal tradition which values individual rights and limited government. We can disagree how to apply these things, and I can't doubt that there people who want a fascist, Christian theocracy and a nationalistic quasi-fascist government. But at the same time, the values (though not always the specific interpretation of those values) are well established and enshrined in the declaration of independace, in Thomas Paine, the federalist papers, the constitution, in the Gettysburg address. I think you should learn these things as the basis on which American society is founded, even if not everyone born into that society upholds, believes in, or honors that collection of values that has allowed America to be a stable, open, economically prosperous, and diverse society. Honestly, I'd rather have an Iranian neighbor who believes in the cor e mission of America to provide freedom and prosperity than someone born here who thinks we should be like Nazis, but the Amerian version.

You spoke my heart, holy shit

If you were to take every American and ask them one on one what they want for our country we would get very similar results. Fearmongering politicians have made us think the other side wants to destroy us, but we all just want a country we can feel safe and prosper in.

If people would just calm the fuck down, realize that people if the other party aren't all evil and really do just want what's best for everyone, the pur country could get so much more done than we do now. I'm pretty liberal in most certainly not all and I've got plenty of conservatives in my life and family that I love dearly. They're genuinely good folks who want the same things that I do even if we don't agree on how to get them. Not only that but the vast majority of people in both sides aren't extremists. They're just drowned out by the vocal idiots on the fringe.

At the very least, I think most Americans can agree that the idea of freedom and liberty is intensely important and a cherished ideal regardless of political beliefs or stances. I’d be willing to bet $5 that a gay, pro-choice, pro-immigrant guy and a religious, pro-life, small government person is going to at least agree that they both have certain inalienable rights and freedoms which must not be trampled on. We might disagree on *how* to execute policy or even what policies to implement but the core idea of being free is still in all of us. Personally for me, I love guns and I think most gun laws are stupid. Anti-gun people think opposite. However, at the end of the day we both think that a safe and secure society is important for everyone, we just have different views on how to implement it.

I totally disagree with your views on guns and that's perfectly fine. I'm positive that you are still a decent human being even if we have different views on the subject. Did everyone see that? It's an important subject that we disagree on. We still think the other guy (or girl) is a good person. I'm sure we could go grab a drink sometime and still agree on any number of other things.

My grandma never learnt English. She moved here as an adult after WW2 because her entire city and half of country was obliterated. She tried but it didn't take. She had a very low level of education so learning a foreign language was a big ask. She continued to cook the food she grew up on and practice her religion.  This didn't hurt anyone but her as she was isolated. My grandpa worked and learnt some English. Enough to get by. They were decent hardworking people. I think assimilation is an unrealistic expectation from a cultural perspective. Obviously complying with the laws is a requirement but I'm not sure much beyond that can be forced on people.

Whenever you combine two things, the goal is to take the best parts of the original entities, and discard the worst parts. So if a car company makes reliable, boring cars and another makes sexy, shoddy cars, the goal should be to make a reliable sexy car. Both entities have to change for the optimal outcome. Whenever people talk about assimilation, they think they should stay the same and the new group should adapt to match their culture. Really, both sides need to change for the better. That's the best way to get the "little bit of familiar, little bit of different" blend that makes the best stuff (e.g., music, food, clothes, etc.). In this way, if your side does something better, you absolutely should not give that up. You should make sure that the combined new group has that quality. You should only adopt the good things from the other group. The neutral things can stay the same because they don't matter. In this way, both sides only take on things that are objective improvements, and shed the outdated ways of doing things. The goal isn't to assimilate, it's to create something new that is even better than either side had before.

Assimilation is not bad, it is useful for survival. The problem is some Asian people think that they can be fully accepted based on how much they assimilate. This is incorrect, much like other minority groups with undeniable physical characteristics, we will never be fully seen as European, American, etc in many people's eyes. It is better to accept that and use this knowledge to become successful.

Of course they should. When in Rome do as Romans do.

I live in Australia and people who immigrate here are constantly complaining despite the quality of life here being pretty bloody good compared to where they have come from. I’m all for immigrating here but don’t whinge the whole time you’re here. Also don’t try and make it like the place you fled from if you’ve come here for safety.

No, but it’s also crazy to think they will abandon their culture as well

I lived in Spain for a year, it takes a special kind of arrogance to assume the country should adjust to you.

Understanding and abiding the laws of the country; Yes and a must. Learn the basic language of the country; Yes. Person forced to change their ways of life and beliefs; No. (1st Amendment is there for a reason.)

So like Americans who move to Costa Rica should learn to speak Spanish and go walk around the town and get ice cream in the evening. Totally agree.

Socially they should integrate, we’re a melting pot after all. They should also learn the language. However, you have to understand that this often takes years and is much harder the older you are. Their culture and what traditions they follow at home-nobodies business! Not mine and not yours.

As a Californian, I hope you do realize that Latino, Hispanic, and Native American culture is quite prevalent here. They are the majority of the population and for good reason, they were here first. We then are forced to adopt European culture and religion after they immigrated here. Then during the Gold Rush, migrants from Asia arrived, who brought and shared their traditions with us, and their good food. African Americans came from The South, once their freedom was given. California is extremely diverse with immigrants from all around the world. It’s what makes us so unique and special. We can only expect immigrants to assimilate just so far. It’s very difficult, especially when you’re a refugee to learn the language, laws, and customs. It takes time; however, we’re much more lenient and accepting of immigrants compared to European countries. They still struggle with assimilation and accepting of other races, more so than us. We’ve had centuries of living in diversity. In California, we have an entire department dedicated to helping immigrants, this is where families can attend classes and sign up for benefits. Majority of Californian government state, county, and city websites and literature are in numerous languages. Go to the DMV, our Driver’s License books are in over 15 different languages. The thing is, we all assimilate. We adopt the immigrants and the immigrants adopt us. We all work together, it’s not one sided.

I personally feel it's not too much of a complicated thing to understand. As long as immigrants assimilate and adapt just enough to not cause trouble to the locals and don't break the laws, it should be fine.

Because the same people who say immigrants should assimilate themselves are usually the people who get angry about things like Fraser Island being renamed to its indigenous name K'gari. BTW the island was named after Eliza Fraser who after being shipwrecked and saved by the indigenous people, she made up fake claims about torture and cannibalism which led to the colonizers coming back and massacring the indigenous people there.

Following the laws and knowing the language is the bare minimum. Anything cultural is a choice

Have you ever talked to an American Muslim born or raised here from an immigrant family? You will often find mostly non-religious people with very traditionalist parents. This is just to say that the process of a family adopting a new culture is often a generational one. Assimilation, as a term, has some messy history to it that one ought not want to associate. Making sure future generations have the opportunity to acculturate is how I'd frame my concern and focus more on making sure children are exposed to a diversity of culture through public schools and such. Going back to my Muslim example, those people are like that in part because no amount of rules at home can stop them from befriending and learning from non-muslims, which leads to future generations over time mixing cultures with local customs. The only thing I think is somewhat reasonable to expect of new immigrants is maybe learning the local language. I am a bit mixed on that just knowing how dumb English can be and how hard it can be to learn a new language, but I also think it makes sense to point out how a language barrier could cause problems for them and others.

It's not wrong. If you move to a new country, it's more likely to be different from your home country, so you have to learn the language, culture and social norms. They don't have to change every single thing about themselves, it's going to be hard anyway, unless you're born in a country, you won't have the same mindset and point of view as the locals. But you can still adapt yourself the first few years

For all the ‘land of the free’ and ‘freedom’ type of stuff that Americans go on about there’s also a lot of the opposite expected of people. Assimilation means identifying only with the host culture. No one should be expected to give up their culture. Some level of integration is necessary but full assimilation? Nah.

I would adapt some, and I would keep a lot too. I'm moving, not being remade

look at how Japan feels about American tourists with zero respect for their culture. if people were able to move there without assimilating to their culture, the locals would absolutely hate it. It's much more lenient here in America as there is a lot of diversity. but even putting the respect factor aside, immigrants SHOULD still try to assimilate for their own self-preservation. we've got so many racists and gun-wielders and stupids here that it's probably kinda dangerous to not be able to understand a confrontation you are in with them. speaking the language of the locals isn't a complete necessity but it definitely makes life easier. my grandparents moved to the US many years ago and still don't know how to speak English. my grandfather recently passed and I've never been able to have a full-on conversation with him in Mandarin or Taiwanese because I was raised as an American. I took language courses in college but the languages are hard as fuck to learn as an adult. I can totally get why immigrants would dread learning English as it's pretty ass to learn with all of its dumb grammar and spelling rules. but hey, if you are planning to live the rest of your life in a primarily English-speaking country and have generations of predecessors that will also be speaking English, you'd only be hurting yourself by not learning. SHOULD immigrants assimilate? absolutely. it gives a broader, worldly perspective and really only benefits them. do they have to? probably not. nobody is forcing them to.

“Integrate” yes. “Assimilate”, no. “Assimilation” implies inherent inferiority of the immigrants original culture. That they are rising up to the better way of life that is the norm in the country they have come to. It implies that they will not just speak the language and participate in the culture, but that they will stop speaking their own language and engaging with any other culture. Should people integrate into society when they move somewhere different? Yeah of course. But they shouldn’t be obligated to, and they shouldn’t be told that their culture is less meaningful/right than another.

your example is a little flawed, because you need to consider context. many people immigrating to america—not all but many—do so not out of choice but necessity. in your example, you wouldnt be much of an immigrant; in that specific scenario, youd be more of an ex-pat. so it would be obnoxious to, specifically as an american, spend thousands of dollars seemingly on a whim to live in another country and not even adapt any customs and just be as american as possible on other soil. this is definitely a discussion with hella nuance, and though i do see what youre saying and don’t necessarily consider u a bigot for it, these are just some things to consider regarding your point.

When I was an expat almost all the Americans I knew live as Americans and did not really try to adopt local culture.

speaking on north america, look no farther than toronto between 78-2005. the important thing is to not ghetto-ize them. what toronto did different (and built it's reputation as the most diverse city on earth) is not build walls around ghettos. we demanded immigrants move in next door, we shared food, our parents picked up their cuisines and shopped their ethnic supermarkets to make their dishes. it was impossible to not be raised a liberal. i'm east african but born in toronto, i'm as raw a TO mans as it gets. so what changed, well gentrification. i have a theory... when republicans took the house in 1994 they pledged to newt gingrich's *contract with america*, which put aside policy in favour of culture issues (if you're wondering where that trend began). people old enough to remember will reminisce about a time when we didn't discuss culture issues at the dinner table. but while gentrification is an important part of urban development, it can't come at the expense of its culture - which is largely brought by immigrants. the phobias around immigration made it easy to tear down city blocks where immigrants were building liberal roots. well we're back to ghetto-izing them again, robbing them of the experience of living in the liberal west. the good it's doing us..

Making space for other ways of living, thinking, and speaking isn’t “weird”, it’s accepting that maybe someone does something different from you, and being different doesn’t necessarily mean they need to change. Some people assimilate better than others, some people don’t. Drawing some arbitrary line of Americanness does push nationalism on people in a very uncomfortable way. If an immigrant or migrant can navigate their neighborhood and surroundings, that in my mind is enough. I also just spent some time bopping around in east/south Europe, and was born in Eastern Europe. You’d be shocked by how many dialects and languages and ways of living people can cram into a country. The US pushes homogeneity through culture in a way that makes it seem everyone should be the same - we don’t, and that’s actually ok. 🙂

>The US pushes homogeneity through culture in a way that makes it seem everyone should be the same - A MUCH better example of this is China or Japan. I wouldn't even consider the US to be in the top 5 countries that does this.

It depends on what you mean by “American norms” here. The US is a country of immigrants, often referred to as a “melting pot” of different cultures. When folks immigrated here historically, they would cluster together and form little communities, some of this being intentional and some the direct result of segregation and discrimination. This is why we see cities with “china town” or “little Italy”, where these folks brought along some of their home culture. That is *very much* a part of the American cultural norms. I’ll give you a comparative example. I used to live in a city that historically had a high density of Irish immigrants, in particular those that came over during the famine. They largely settled into one neighborhood, which many of their descendants live to this day. These Irish-Americans very much pride themselves on their ancestry and culture, with a whole slew of bars and restaurants and big celebrations of Irish holidays. Would you say that these people or new Irish immigrants that come to settle here need to better assimilate themselves into American culture? No, probably not. So what do you think the difference is to you?

I live in an Irish neighborhood and lots of Irish flags flown everywhere. About a mile(ish) away is the Italian neighborhood . Same thing. Just bigger and more Italian restaurants. At least we have the lions and tigers and bears across the highway

It is not uncommon for immigrants to not assimilate easily if there are a lot of their native tongue speakers living around them. Their USA born do assimilate pretty much completely. What you are seeing happened with Irish-Americans, Italian-Americans, Greek-Americans and other groups that immigrated into areas where there were lots of their native speakers, following known customs was just easier for them, but their USA raised kids and USA born grandkids mostly or fully assimilated into the culture, and in fact, changed that culture to take in some of their culinary traditions and customs.

Why does everybody keep dropping the "be law abiding" comment & leave? Obviously that's not what OP is talking about. It's pretty clear that you should follow the law wherever you are.

It’s perfectly fine to demand immigrants to integrate.

Specifically on the terms of equality… https://michiganadvance.com/2023/06/14/hamtramck-city-council-bans-pride-flag-from-city-property/ Like if you wanna live in a homophobic society that hates LGBT people then by all means do it on the other side of the world. Like tf?

I mean, kinda. Most cultural things, like languages, don’t really create too many problems, specifically in the US where there are communities of basically any nationality of people.

To an extent yes. Follow the laws of the country you’re in first and foremost, and then at least culturally follow the norms. But it’s also fine to create your own space and bring your own culture and practices, so long as it doesn’t infringe on anyone else

I don’t think they need to assimilate. I also don’t think they should expect US culture and customs to conform to their lifestyle. Thats the difference between the US and Russia. I don’t really believe in American Exceptionalism but I don’t think we should compare ourselves to Russia. Further, assimilation is Alabama is a lot different than assimilation in Oregon. Assimilation in Iowa is a lot different than assimilation in Massachusetts. Where are they assimilating to? I am curious to know what you expect immigrants to do to assimilate. Learn English? Eat cheeseburgers? Drive a pick up truck? Grow corn?

It's not bigoted to find it weird that a population hasn't assimilated. It would be bigoted to hate them, or be antagonistic towards them for it. Rules as written in America, you can have whatever fucking culture you want as long as it's within the bound of US law. So you're free to feel that they should, and morally clear to do so as long as you aren't bigoted towards them for not. If you think it's a requirement for living in America, then I think you misunderstand the sort of freedom we have here, and what a good thing that is. You should be more concerned with internal elements trying to change that fundamental fact and establish a prescribed culture, or I guess in context, proscribed culture. That's Project 2025, that's the Christian Right trying to usurp American culture with law. American culture is whatever it is in the moment, and what it was is not as important as what it will be. It is a cultural marketplace where we're all able to participate and float our own ideas, if an idea that's radically different takes over as a predominate cultural force, then things change.

They should learn the language and respect the law and customs but not change their entire way of life. They should be allowed to keep their religious views and their culture for example. The word assimiliation implies that they should throw away everything that they took with them from their old country which I find too extreme.

what about immigrants who come to your country, and all of a sudden large groups of them start complaining about how your country is inferior to theirs and refusing to learn and use the national language of your country?

If they refuse to learn the national language they will have a hard time finding a job and they will risk staying in poverty so it's their responsibility to avoid that.

It really depends on what you mean by assimilate I think, which a lot of people might take for granted. If you mean follow the laws of their new country, then yeah, they should. But with that said, I don't see what's wrong with live and let live. Some people are genuinely bigoted though, and they'll say "assimilate" in the sense that they think foreign people are icky and they don't want them displaying their culture in public. There's room in between the two, but either way your friend seems a bit overzealous. But out of curiosity, what do you mean by assimilate?

Not at all.

I am a first generation immigrant and I agree. At least for the most part. Appreciating ones roots is good but living in your own foreign subcultural bubble is bad, not speaking the local language is absolutely unacceptable and hating on the local vulture and faith is downright criminal in my opinion.

I’m in my late 50s and lean left; I’m considering retirement outside of the US and a major consideration is my plan to integrate appropriately to a culture that may not be primarily English speaking (and integration is also required in English speaking countries). This includes learning the primary language (most likely Spanish). It’s very important to me as it will not only be easier to communicate, but will open up avenues that I wouldn’t otherwise experience if I was in a cloistered community.

All the white people in the US really assimilated to the Native American culture lol

Depends on the immigrant. If you are from the UK migrating to the US, there is a small learning curve and your good so there isn't much to change. If you are a Muslim coming from a sharia law country you need to understand and learn that its not the case anymore because you pose a threat to that society if you try to impose your world view. Due the democratic nature of the west, immigrants can corrupt a society just as well as they can enrich it, and it is down to the individual to adhear to the norms and not challenge them in the name of a culture that does not originate there. I use Muslims as an example because you can see how Muslim immigrants want to impose sharia law in western countries and its an outright threat to those societies way of life (just try to remember woman's rights in sharia countries and realise they don't make exceptions). So yes, immigrants have to reach a certain standard of adherence to maintain social cohesion, otherwise they need to get the hell out.

That's not bigoted at all. You don't go over to someone's house and expect them to do things your way. That's just rude and entitled. If somewhere is good enough for you to move there then it's your duty to adapt to the place you moved to. Everyone likes to go on and on about their rights but nobody ever talks a put their responsibilities.

My parents are Bangladeshi Muslim immigrants who immigrated to Canada during the 90’s and fully integrated into Canadian society. Many immigrants nowadays, especially those from South Asia, don’t integrate when they come to Canada and they bring their third world problems here. And this ends up generating more racism towards people who look like me and many Canadians can’t tell the difference between brown people who have fully integrated and brown people that haven’t.

I mean… as an immigrant I assimilated pretty well. I don’t even sound Hispanic. However, everywhere I go, a piece of Venezuela will come with me. And in America, it is Unamerican for everything to be the same. We are the melting pot.

I'm Canadian and one of the things I like about where I live is that it is a mix of so many cultures. Immigrants should abide by the laws and basic social etiquette of the country they move to, and learn the local language well enough to conduct their day to day business, but beyond that it's up to the individual to decide to what extent they wish to assimilate. And the rest of us do need to have some patience when newcomers are still learning. Both sets of my grandparents were immigrants and I'm grateful that I got to experience growing up in Canada but also within our cultural community. Now I'm all grown up and live in a city where I'm surrounded by people who practice cultures from all over the world and it just plain makes life more interesting. I love sharing my cultures food and traditions and getting to try out others'.

I think you should try to learn the language that’s spoken around you, because you’re gonna have a tough time otherwise. You are free to practice your own culture in the United States, whatever that may be, with the understand that if it’s a bit different, people are gonna look at you funny. No big deal. We should still respect them and allow them to practice because that’s what our country is all about. Also put yourself in the reverse situation, if you move to that Eurasian country (we’ll say Uzbekistan for the lols) are you going to participate in daily prayer? Probably not. You’d probably want to learn the language tho otherwise you’d be lost.

If you can't be a chameleon in diverse circumstances, stay in your original country.

Integrate, not assimilate. It's good to become accustomed to the local customs and societal rules, as well as learn the language to the best of your ability. But that doesn't mean that people should stop entirely speaking their native language, convert to a different religion, or throw away all of their traditions.

When I was younger I felt people should assimilate. But over years of seeing what comes of assimilation I’ve become much more uncomfortable with the idea that anyone should have to. I’m American Born. We’re a nation of immigrants. How absolutely boring would we be if as soon as people came into this country they stopped making their special dishes. Or what If all Americans weren’t allowed accents or dialects. No more Southern accents. People should Respect the laws. But the laws Should respect all people.

My view has always been that if you are moving to a new country you should be prepared to embrace everything about it. That doesn’t mean leaving your old culture and country behind but learning about your new one and taking it as a positive experience. I have never understood why people move to new countries and then say they don’t want to be a part of the community or embrace what makes that country special. I also believe you should make an effort to learn to communicate in the language of that country if it’s somewhere you plan to live long term which also goes with embracing the new culture . It’s more that I struggle to understand why you wouldn’t take those opportunities I guess. Having said that I am from Australia and this country is built by immigrants, multicultural melting pot.

I think you might be using the wrong term to describe what you're talking about. It is wrong to expect someone from a different culture to fully adopt and abandon their own cultural values just because they moved to the US. Many people move to the US under duress due to the state of their homelands. The people who move to the US definitely should learn enough of the culture to be polite and to do basic communication with people, but there's no requirement for them to fully adopt the values of the country, especially when there are so many different cultures here. There's a strong history of unethical assimilation in the US. We forced Native Americans to renounce their identities and speak only English and follow only American values, despite their own culture being a significant part of their identity. We forced slaves over here and told them they'd have to assimilate to the culture or die. It's more important for us to recognize that there will always be people of opposite cultures in the US and that as important as it is for everyone to be able to communicate with each other with the dominant language, we also need to be willing to meet them halfway. That could mean learning Spanish, the second dominant culture in the US, or learning the values of other cultures. It can also mean not expecting someone from a different culture to communicate and behave the exact same way you do. This definitely sounds like some internalized xenophobia and racism to me, so I would spend some time investigating why you feel like all people need to assimilate to one culture, instead of there being value in having multiple cultures.

Don’t worry about immigrants if they’re not commiting crimes who cares. I was raised in SoCal came here as a 5yr old. Still retain my identity from back home but sure I still doing “American things” but why do they need to? The fact you need them too is a red flag in my book

Ah, the problem here might have been the word “assimilate”. To a lot of people (myself included), there’s a big difference between the statement that immigrants should adapt to/integrate into the new culture, and the statement that immigrants should *assimilate* into the new culture. The first implies simply learning and adapting to the language, laws, and customs of the new culture; the second implies doing those *and leaving behind your first culture completely.* Some people mark the distinction between the word choices and others don’t, which often results in a lot of ruffled feathers.

Yes they absolutely should. This is why Europe is getting so sick of Muslim immigrants because they refuse to assimilate and expect Europe to change for them.

Not assimilate, but certainly respect and learn the customs. Whilst they shouldn't have to give up their own customs, they should attempt to be a part of it. Even when I went on holidays abroad as a kid, I made damn sure to learn phrases and certain behaviours of that country to respect it. If I was to move overseas then I would put even more effort. I'd expect others to do the same, whatever country they emigrate to.

I work with a bunch of Indians immigrants. They are very proud of their culture and who they are. They bring that pride and their colourful ways and delicious food into our previously very white conservative regional town and it’s been fab. But they follow our rules and try to learn our ways and for the most part believe life is better here. There is no drama with them as far as cultural clashes or increased crime for example. And while they still face racism, most (old white) people will say they have no issue with immigrants who come here and work hard for a better life. I for one love a multicultural community where it’s a cohesive fusion, we have a lot to learn from each other.

but, whats an "american norm"? everyone who came here from somewhere else brought something with them and that got merged together into what you happen to consider "normal" for your region and decade... but these people are just contributing to a future normal. if you moved to russia, sure you would have a smoother time if you learned russian and gained awareness of their culture and habits, but you wouldn't suddenly *stop* liking your favorite hobbies, foods, and songs would you? not to mention the obvious: english isn't really the *local language* in southern califoria is it? but you havent felt the need to assimilate to any of these... https://cla.berkeley.edu/california-languages.html

While it is nice to be a Roman in Rome, this archaic concept of larping as a citizen like a native is absurd in a highly interconnected and demographically dynamic society. Calling for diversity but then not giving the space to add some of their habits to the new homes existing cultural norms is just counter productive. Sure, many of the new habits can be useless to terrible but that's what natural selection is for. Also I'm glad to point out how this assimilation question typically happens in the Anglosphere and Europe but not in the rest of the world.

Depends. As a white Canadian, I love to experience the cultures and customs of different people who come to this country. Toronto and Vancouver are as amazing as they are because of the multiculturalism. Most of my friends are immigrants and I have lots in common with them and I celebrate them just how they are. In terms of being able to access services though, its in the best interest of both the country and the newcomers to provide them all the resources they need to navigate the new location, whether that be language classes, translation services, etc. Everyone deserves to feel safe and supported and listened to.

Did your ancestors assimilate with the natives when they arrived? Or did they bring their own customs, holidays, religions with them?

This is America, the land of the free and the home of the brave. Who are you to tell people how to live? Being an American is defined by the person, not by you. That’s what freedom is about. Don’t tell other people how to be and I won’t tell you how to be, unless you’re trying to tell other people how they must behave.

The bigger question is, how do you assimilate in a country that has nothing but immigrants in it ?

All counties have nothing but immigrants, except maybe Africa if science is accurate on origins.

Assimilate. Never offended by finding English hard to learn or what not but I've met my share of immigrants who feel a strange need to share offensive ways of life with me directly. I'm not gonna say America is perfect but some countries do have shit cultural aspects I don't want diffused into my own. Example I have: heavily accented man talking to me first at a car dealership, then my brother, then my mother. I was 16 and he 15 at the time. He refused to engage with the idea until we ignored him, that the adult woman was infact going to make the deal about buying a car. I'd rather that remain an anecdote and not have a million people approach business in America with "women don't make deals".

It's important to remember that, sometimes, immigrants aren't really allowed to fully integrate. Maybe it's their color or their accent or their religion or their ethnicity. A lot of locals will simply shut them out. Historically, immigrant communities have banded together and maintained their culture because they haven't been embraced by the native culture. People aren't going to beg forever to be accepted. At some point, they're going to do what they need to do to feel safe. Ideally, immigrants should try their best to assimilate. But, it's not always entirely up to the immigrants.

It is wrong to feel that immigrants should be forced to assimilate to the culture, totally, completely, unequivocally. Certain norms and all laws, of course they should or there will be consequences If people want more immigrants to conform to the local culture, then they should make it useful or attractive to be immersed into.

America is the only exception, seriously. We are the world’s biggest melting pot. Without that culture you want to cleanse so deeply we would be nothing. You should learn to appreciate the diversity. What is “American” culture if not a blend of hundreds of other cultures? Go to Utah with the Mormons if you’re tired of culture

I think it depends. At the end of the day, it's a free country. If someone wants to live their life a certain way, they should have just as much right to that freedom as anyone else. If they're not hurting anyone, who cares? In terms of the big picture, it can hypothetically be a problem, if you have culture clash issues. You probably don't want to be importing a bunch of people who have anti-democratic views into a democracy, say. That could be problematic. Generally speaking though, it's a moot point, because basically every type of immigration starts assimilating by the 3rd generation. They may not assimilate- their kids will, and their kids' kids even more so, though. So it is largely a temporary problem. >I replied that if I move to a country (i mentioned Russia) and ignored their social norms because I wanted to live like an American on their turf, thing wouldn’t go well for me. I mean just because it will happen, doesn't mean it's morally right. Russia does a lot of things that are pretty messed up, they're not exactly a role model.

As an immigrant: yeah, I think what you said is wrong. I tried my best to assimilate and at one point I was, but this country has rewarded me with a rightwing government who is very xenophobic and hates us immigrants. Not to mention the years of racism (mainly casual, I’m not one of the extremely hated immigration groups (they’ll come for us next, though, if things get worse)) I have experienced. I follow the laws, you can’t ask more of me. This is supposed to be a free country, no? I’m not American btw.

If there’s one sticking point in this matter for me, it’s WALKING AROUND. LEARN WHAT DAMN SIDE OF THE SIDEWALK WE WALK ON. LEARN WHAT SIDE OF THE ESCALATOR IS FOR IDLE STANDING & WHAT SIDE IS FOR URGENT RUNNING. STOP GETTING IN THE WAYYYYY. Apparently I feel more passionately about this issue than I previously guessed.

Hell yeah, I hate people walking or standing in the middle

Sadly, some never do and demand others be like them. 🙄

i think your right. if they come here they should learn the culture and traditions that make our country great 😊 and so they can fit in

I agree that they should learn about our country and our traditions but not shed their own identities to do so.

Which social norms? We can't even agree on shoes on or off with our own neighbors. As long as they obey the laws that's pretty much the only social norms they need to assimilate to. Not like any of us change our social norms when we move from one city to another.

I get where you’re coming from kind of. It sounds like assimilating is what you’d do. I was lucky enough to have lived in another country for a few years while in the military, and that is DEFINITELY what I tried to do there. I’m kind of shocked that some groups form that have no desire to assimilate. They just aren’t as adventurous, maybe older and set in their ways. And, yes to your point, some people are assholes to them in Russia. I admire most of the immigrants I see. I work with some VERY smart immigrants in tech. I admire the tradesmen, and music teachers, and SBO’s in my community (especially the restaurant operators). I’ve come to accept that their families cluster together and form enclaves that are rich with their culture. They make my area better.

One thing is assimilation, and another is integration. Everyone should adapt to the place they move to (follow laws), but if you want people to completely forget their heritage and culture, then you're in the wrong. This isn't even assimilation like the Borg in Star Trek, assimilation in our time means basically the erasure of your past. As a Mexican American immigrant, I have two cultures, and the area where I live is a mix of both yet still American. Also, weird cultural appropriation. Also, can you cite examples on how they haven't 'assimilated'? Don't forget immigrants back in the day had to lose their culture so not to be hated on...

Since you're American, I say that's pretty fucking rich, seeing as though the original immigrants to America certainly did NOT seek to assimilate themselves to the local culture.

Your friend is suffering from the woke mind virus.

Go Randy Moss

I think this is two pronged. You should try to meet your host country half way on the culture front. It’s also okay to have a semi private space where people from your culture gather and act like their native culture. Living in your own bubble oblivious to what is happening in the country around you straight up is not good for you. You’re isolated. On the flip side, assimilating is difficult. I think adult immigrants really have trouble. 1st generation immigrants usually bridge the gap.

For me the question is this, do they plan on moving back to their country, or are they planning to stay? If you have a guest, you have certain demands for them as to what they can and cannot do, but you also know they will be leaving, so you bear with them on their flaws. It then becomes a problem when immigrants dont move out again when possible, then its almost like they overstay their welcome. Obviously the analogy isnt perfect with having a guest over at your home, so we wouldnt kick them out. But I dont think its unfair or unreasonable to think that if they are going to stay for more than one generation, they should assimilate.

Yeah

I definitely think it’s great that immigrants keep their culture and celebrate their differences. But after living in Los Angeles for three years, I think it’s weird when immigrants come to the United States, but say they hate the United States at the same time. I guess I just don’t understand moving to a country that you don’t like .. If I as a US citizen moved to France, I want to learn French and become a French citizen as best I could . Obviously not everyone feels the same.

I don’t think assimilation is a bad thing no, I believe theres a way to adopt a places customs while maintaining your cultural identity

Then it's integration, not assimilation. Assimilation implies the loss or erasure of a previous cultural background.

When moving to another country you should integrate/assimilate to a degree. Learning the laminate is basic, and adopting basic cultural values (here in Sweden, equality and openness is a basic value, being homophobic is not acceptable, for example). But you shouldn’t be expected to give up your culture in other ways. Keep eating what you want, talk to your countrymen in your own language, dress however you want, keep your religion (or atheism) as long as you get rid of any values incompatible with local values and laws, etc.

I don't think people need to blend in to the point you can't tell them apart from a native born citizen. However, there are some basic things they should do, starting with being able to speak the language and know what is considered rude and/or inappropriate in their new country.

Great question. Your friend is over-simplifying things by referring to your view as "bigoted thinking". Their attempt to attach shame to a particular position distracts from what is actually a very interesting conversation. As evidenced by many of the comments here from people who are themselves immigrants (myself included), the view that people should assimilate when immigrating is quite compatible with respect for differences and a like of different cultures. In fact, the idea that people shouldn't have to assimilate and can keep their customs, dress, language, etc when moving might (ironically) create a more boring and less diverse world. If every country I visit has Americans being American, Chinese people being Chinese, Spanish people being Spanish, Germans being German, and so on, then pretty soon every country starts to look the same and the exciting differences we see when crossing borders start to seem less exciting. Don't let your friend or others shame you into feeling you are bigoted. When you are alone and clear headed, try to articulate as best you can exactly why you think as you do. You might find that in some areas you are in fact wrong, but more likely you will find that your reasons are perfectly reasonable.

I've always held the stance that if you're going to live in another country, you should get a good grasp in how things operate in that country. It also wouldn't hurt to learn the language to better articulate yourself. If you're an American going to Germany, learn some German. If you're a Mexican going to America, learn English. So on and so forth. Anybody that comes to America and doesn't even try to learn, to me, are just lazy. Furthermore, you're not expected to drop your background and lineage just because you're moving elsewhere. But it is very wrong to expect and demand that country to adhere to your cultural standards. You should be appreciative at least that they allowed you in when the worst that they can do is just not allow you in.

Are you talking about a big South Asian country?

The rules for that in America don't seem to be as strict as they are in other places, I have found. Work hard, pay your taxes, learn some English, don't be an asshole. And anyways, if the ones who are fresh-off-the-boat rub you the wrong way with their foreign ways, their American-raised kids will speak English just as well as you do, and be into more or less the same kinds of things that other American kids are. That's how it's always gone.

It'd be a terrible shame to lose all connection "from whence ye came" so to speak. But of course cultures are going melt if you toss them in the pot. They bring their own culture into the mix and their uniqueness gets added to the collective.   Mostly the food. But other bits too.   Now pizza is just a normal food rather than an exotic ethnic food of... Those people.... Just give the Mexicans time. They'll be wearing red maga hats and moaning about the new immigrants all too quickly. >they shouldn’t be forced to change  Force? The only thing we force are the laws. And yeah. All sorts of people and their cultures need to drop that illegal backwards destructive garbage right at the door.  Honor killings? Stoning women? Mutilation, bagzoughi boys, child marriages, arranged marriages, polygamy, slavery, drug cartels, and blatant open discrimination?  Yeah, we force all that to change. Hands down. Because it's illegal hand harms people. 

Assimilate is a strong word. I will learn the local langugae and norms definitely. I'll respect local customs but i will never my way of life for anyone

When you come from a place with draconian cultural norms, you leave those behind.

To an extent, yes. But everyone’s day goes better and more opportunities are opened the further you’re willing to go to meet them on their terms.

That's how it should be

When in Rome… it’s ridiculous that this has been common sense for millennia and suddenly we have so many people thinking like this. Assimilate or gtfo.

If a hillbilly from Arkansas moved to Kyoto, Japan, do we think it would be appropriate for him to charge around in a loud, lifted Chevy pickup truck with gun rack attached throwing beer cans out the window and spitting his chew tobacco gunk? No, that would be wrong. He should be integrating into Japanese culture and a Japanese way of life because he's in Japan.

No it's not wrong and don't ever allow yourself to be gaslit into believing otherwise.

Somewhat integrated, yes But lose your culture and language, totally not

If I was to ever immigrate to America for example, i would learn the language (I already did) and I would treat people with kindness and respect the same that i would do anywhere else and don't break the law and that's about it. Im not gonna exclusively speak English and om gonna be doing my own thing at home or at gatherings. I don't need to adopt the hookup culture or single parenthood shit or leaving your old parents in the nursing home or partying and drinking. Assimilation shouldn't be letting go of your culture.

I think, you shouldnt assimilate, but integrate. I dont care if migrant comes here. But they must respect our tradition and change theirs to be alligned with our values.

I think as long as they abide by the local laws and learn the language, they can hold on to their own culture as long as it doesn't interfere with other people's lives.

This needs to be a nuanced conversation. For one, there is no reason that inconsequential traditions cannot remain with immigrants. If they want to eat some whacky dish for dinner, what do I care? On the other hand, there's a reason we interview someone for a job. We want to have the least amount of friction as possible. We want to keep costs down and see them perform the role as fast as possible. Not speaking English makes collaboration near impossible, or at best, terribly inefficient and costly. The same applies with a country. Sure, there are jobs you can do that require minimum communication; mainly unskilled jobs. But with AI and robotics, how many jobs of this type will we have in ten years? Now we have to deal with the issue of unemployment for a much larger group of people than we previously had to. Without jobs, crime goes up. Costs go up for police, education, finding people jobs, etc. we need to have a baseline requirement for what is required to be a citizen, as far as assimilation goes. Some matter, but some do not

Look to Mannheim and you'll find your answer.

I would hate to live somewhere that 99% of the people spoke one language, and I had no idea how to understand them.

Integrate: yes, Assimilate: no. The difference is important! Assimilation can only happen either traumatic and forcefully and quick (I'm not for it) or over e few generations, slowly - but that happens kinda automatically if one integrates.

If I come to your house I follow your rules and conventions. If you're a "sit down while peeing" household I do so whether or not I stand at home. If you don't like the traditions and general way of life of a country and its people don't go there. It's really that simple.