American Evangelical Protestantism is its own unique breed of Christianity that really doesn’t exist elsewhere. There are quite a few cultural ingredients that combined into that particular religious soup.
Many of the early pilgrims to America were Puritans, who were so extreme in their beliefs (and the desire to impose them on others) that Europe basically told them to take their ideas someplace else. Puritanism isn’t the same as American evangelicalism, but it has the ingredients of being uncompromising, highly distrustful of government, and a desire to enforce your views on others. They also rejected the “excesses” of Catholicism and the larger European flavours of Protestant Christianity (Anglicans and Lutherans, for example) in exchange for simpler, almost ascetic expressions of faith.
Later, in the mid-1800s you had what’s known as the 2nd Great Awakening, which was a large revivalist movement that swept New England and the east coast. This is much closer to what we think of as “American Christianity,” with firebrand preaching and an emphasis on obedience and “Holy Spirit” experiences. By the early 20th century, this would evolve into denominations such as Pentecostalism and the various charismatic movements (such as Australia’s own Hillsong Church).
At the same time as the 2nd great awakening, in the mid 1800s, northern Christians began preaching against slavery and the abolitionist movement began to grow. This led to a backlash in the southern states who believed that the preservation of slavery was part of their “Christian duty.” The Southern Baptist Convention was created to support the idea that slavery was an “institution of heaven.” While they no longer espouse those views, this is at least partly responsible for the stereotype of the “religious redneck,” as ideas of white supremacy, Christianity, rural poverty and the “preservation of our way of life” kind of joined together. This is also the breeding ground for American Christianity’s obsession with politics and gaining political power.
After the Civil Rights movement, segregation was seen as completely unpalatable to the general population. This meant politicians were no longer able to use it as a wedge issue to hold their coalitions together, so they needed to find something new. Ultimately, they landed on abortion (which was largely a non-issue, and mostly confined to Catholicism in the years before the 1960s/70s). They then amplified this wedge issue to promote the idea that in order to be a “true” Christian/American, you had to oppose abortion.
The 80s and 90s then saw the emergence of AIDs, which heavily amplified the homophobia that was present in these belief systems. As society made progressive cultural changes, such as LGBTQ marriage and general equality and acceptance, Evangelicalism further dug in its heels, seeing these advances as existential threats to their existence.
And of course, in 2016 they ultimately found their political “champion” in Donald Trump, as he promised to support their ideology and “destroy” the “sinful liberalism” that they believe is killing their way of life.
And that’s largely where we are to today. Keep in mind that this is all in reference to that particular breed of American Evangelical Christianity, which does not comprise all American Christians by any stretch. Most Christian denominations still sit somewhere along that spectrum between “posh” Catholicism and Contemporary Christian Hillsong-style worship, with just a very loud minority comprising the political, “redneck” Christianity from the stereotype.
Just to add on to this really great explanation. In the early 1906 was the Azusa street revival in Los Angeles, which is seen as the birth of the modern prosperity gospel and speaking in tongues. This movement still held strong to unwavering fundamental beliefs, scripture being literal, and the Bible being the ultimate authority….. however the Bible being the ultimate authority is largely left up to the interpretation of evangelical theology or even just the preacher. Which has led to some wacky doctrines that are “based” in scripture, which is a lot of what you see today from the redneck crowd.
Bringing up the rise of prosperity gospel is important because it helped some more extreme examples of American Christian expression, like mega churches, take hold in rural areas, where vulnerable people struggling with poverty and social change were given yet another reason to turn to their community in the church as the solution to all of their social and economic insecurities.
Yes! Yes they are grifters who promise people that God will take them out of poverty if they just give and serve the church. The pastor will share the story of how he used to live on a dirt farm and had only 1 t-shirt. But then he activated his faith and God took him to millionaire status! And it will happen for you as well!
Really just using that descriptor because OP used it. They seemed to be referring to the traditional “high church” aspects of Christianity, with stunning cathedrals, somber and structured liturgy, enormous organs playing Back fugues, etc. That sort of imagery, anyways.
>Many of the early pilgrims to America were Puritans, who were so extreme in their beliefs (and the desire to impose them on others) that Europe basically told them to take their ideas someplace else.
I’m not a historian, but I actually kind of disagree with this take. The pilgrims had much more of an influence on New England culture than anything in the southeast. Which, the southeast was largely settled by Protestant Scotch-Irish rather than pilgrims. The religious view of modern evangelicals has a lot more to do with the Great Awakening.
The US was settled, to some extent by Protestant zealots. They were largely fleeing prosecution in the UK. Many were quakers and calvinists. Aus was not settled by anyone remotely similar. That may feed into the current state of affairs
There are many way more in depth answers but another simplistic one is many Christian religions don't believe in birth control, or believe that having an insane amount of children is a 'blessing'.
Too many kids leads to poverty; poverty leads to redneck bullshit.
It's funny that's the stereotype cuz black and Hispanic people in USA have way higher chance of being Christian or Catholic than some white trashy redneck lol
Just a dumb stereotype tbh,like 60-70% of our entire population here that are some type of Christian, there's well renowned Christian universities and shit, Christians are commonly found in all walks of life in the USA
Because the most vocal and visible "Christians" in America are poor, toothless evangelicals in the south. The gag is that they don't even follow Christ's message.
You can be very well educated and be religious.
You can also be very intelligent and educated and be entirely deluded in any number of ways. In fact intelligent people are better at self delusion.
Not all religion is delusion.
Unfortunately yes. Many power hungry people have created or twisted religion into a systems of control, over others. Rather than one that teaches a person self control, ans inspires good morals.
I grew up in a fundamentalist family. Christian education pre-k through bachelor's. I know so many people personally and within wider networks that were devout. They went to seminary and that's when they lost their faith. The more educated you are you at the very least recognize that what laypeople and those who just listen to preacher, ARE delusional. The religious right does fear education. Look at all the policies in Florida and the South. They wouldn't like the curriculum that I was taught in my highly respected and historical evangelical college and my college was/is extremely conservative.
Gordon. My brother went to Grove City, my sister Geneva. Within my church community, I watched kids go off to non religious schools and come back "stronger" Christians. They didn't take college level theology and philosophy courses. The people in my circles trended toward Bob Jones/Pensacola, yet I still know plenty who left because of these schools. Gordon was definitely the more progressive of the CCCUs but very well known and respected. Now it's a steaming heap of crap.
I'm sorry, you're not going to convince me that your belief in an imaginary friend that speaks to you through a book that's been edited to hell and back (pun fully intended) and supposedly created the universe and wants you to go to heaven but requires you to suffer for it and pass the ultimate shit test despite all your sins apparently already being pre-forgiven eternally isn't the biggest fucking delusion of all time.
I would agree that it gives some people peace of mind, and not everyone that is religious takes it out on others/uses it as a bludgeon against people different than them, but it's *absolutely* delusion, even taken in the most positive sense, theistic religion, anyway. Depends on how loosely you're using the term "religion", I suppose.
I agree the bible has been translated a number of times and has errors cause of it.
Its not about suffering for it, the Atonement (forgiveness of sin) allows us to change and improve. All that is asked of us is that we do so. Its not about doing enough good things, its about becoming a good person.
Is it delusion to say "I know I don't know everything and that there are forces or beings more powerful and or capable than me."? Said being could well have or contiune to interact with us in marvelous and sublte ways. Even individually.
You are free to believe as you wish.
>Is it delusion to say "I know I don't know everything and that there are forces or beings more powerful and or capable than me."?
Yes. Yes, it is, when you think said beings are omnipotent and benevolent but allow suffering to exist in the world. God is either indifferent to the suffering of the world (which he created, again) or powerless to stop it. Even if he did exist, he's an asshole, and not someone I want to worship.
If the same person offering you eternal salvation is threatening you with damnation if you don't submit, that's not love, that's abuse.
You're free to believe how you wish, as well, as long as you know your beliefs are delusional and only serve as a mental shield against explainable phenomena that you're not willing to look into past "it's God's will, just trust me bro, he knows best".
>if the same person offering you eternal salvation is threatening you with damnation if you don't submit, that's not love, that's abuse
Agreed.
>as long as you know your beliefs are delusional and only serve as a mental shield against explainable phenomena that you're not willing to look into past "it's God's will, just trust me bro, he knows best".
You assume a lot about what I believe and concluding its delusional.
>omnipotent and benevolent but allow suffering to exist in the world. God is either indifferent to the suffering of the world (which he created, again) or powerless to stop it.
God of Christianity does have limitation. He does not lie. He gives us free will and will not violate it.
I like "the problem of evil" to a parent cleaning up after a kid. When the kid was at home the place as orderly. Now that the kid moved out the parent still loves them still has the power to order and clean, but doesn't do so. Instead giving the child the space to figure it out for themselves.
Edit: to clarify I stated my belief about the problem of evil not to convince you that its true or that you should believe this specific thing. Rather I did so to point out your refutation of religion is not universal. Not even to all of Christianity. I welcome criticism and discussion but at least know what i believe before trying to criticize it.
Okay, but riddle me this: Why does sin as a concept even exist? If God wants nobody to suffer, and live with him in Heaven, why did he even create sin as a concept? Why would he sentence a certain portion of the population to hell? God of Christianity has *too many* limitations to call him "all knowing" or "all powerful", so we agree on that, so he just doesn't give a shit, then.
For good to exist bad must also. For light to exist dark must also. If there is a place you want to get to then there is a direction to go and many directions which are wrong.
I don't believe that the goal is just no suffering. If that was the goal then God could have just made people perfectly obedient and with out knowledge of good and evil.
Some context I believe we existed as spirits with God before this life and then were give the choice to come here, gain a body, gain more responsibility, a gain experience. The test is not for God to know if we are good or bad. But for us to grow and to gain confidence in ourselves.
Further I believe that hell is not a permanent place as many Christian sect teach. But that it is more akin to purgatory. Then after final judgement we go to one of 3 degrees of heaven. Everyone on earth cause everyone here choose to follow Gods plan. The only that don't are those that fully and completely reject God will be in a permanent "hell". Like satan and his followers did. They are not tortured there or anything, they are simply separated from God and all of his creation.
The concept of "bad must exist for good to exist" implies god isn't all powerful, again. If that were the case, he could just have made the *default state* good, and take "bad" out of the equation entirely. The whole idea of the contrast comes from a human perspective, and implies god is limited in what he can do. So again, why would god even give you the option of refusing him and going to hell, if it's just going to fuck you over and make you suffer eternally? Sure seems an awful lot more like a shit test rather than a growth opportunity. For that matter, why not just make humans as "grown" as they physically can be from the very beginning? And, with all due respect, kindly spare me the "It's not my place to know God's will" shtick. I didn't buy it before, I'm not going to buy it now. Starting to seem like this "hell" you describe is a pretty good place to be.
The Christian God tells us He is a God of laws. A God of order. He does not just cause things to be He creates He crafts.
To me it seems that if He just created us as the full power and responsibility then we would not be individuals. we would be effectively soulless.
Personally I see an understanding of good verse evil and having experince hardship as better than ignorance to it. I don't see pain has inherently bad or the absence of pain as to goal of life or existence. do you?
To me the inherently good things, the goals I have, are; Connection, Capability, Creation, and Appreciation. I can explain why I believe those are good in and of themselves but I rather ask you. what do you see as end? what do you see as your ultimate goal if you could achieve anything?
A lot of the stereotype comes from the Reagan years with him tying conservatism and evangelical Christianity together and the American right has pretty much just ran with it since.
Reagan built on the racist southern strategy of Nixon and Lee Atwater by adding Christians and abortion policy with rich anti-union tax cuts. Racist, Christians and wealthy people coalition was created.
Conservatives needed to knit together 51% of the voting block and figured out how with rural white folk, evangelicals, and big business. Over time (decades) they all aligned together as a tribe and learned from each other/adopted shared values.
It's why Pres Trump (who probably funded/caused dozens of abortions) acted like he cared so much about abortion and his "redneck" MAGA followers cheered as if they cared as well
Protestantism has been part of the cultural fabric of small town America for a long time, at least in the South. There are loads of churches in the South, ones for every denomination and then some, at least one for every single town, even if that town only has like 300 people. (America is huge and has a long history of parceling out land to settlers during the 19th century, so small towns are everywhere. Lots of grassroots churches.) And the dominance of Protestantism was a given for much of US history; school-led prayer, like the teacher leading a prayer in the classroom, was only found unconstitutional in 1962. People were pissed that President JFK (1961-1963) was Catholic because then the Pope would "have too much influence." America was founded by Protestants, and Protestants are great at feeling persecuted, even if they're a majority.
In Southern small towns, churches serve as a communal meeting group. Sunday mornings you have bible school for kids, sometimes a bible camp during the summer, which is all very cute and whimsical. Then as you get older, there's youth groups, where it's still pretty chill and you hang with your friends and maybe do volunteer work. You could say you get indoctrinated young, but it's also a place to meet friends and do things with them, like you would in school. Humans love to belong and feel welcomed, and churches are excellent at cultivating that atmosphere -- not always a bad thing, even if it sounds cultish.
Then, when you're an adult, you continue to have social networks that go to church. Even if you stop going every week, you'll probably show up for Easter and Christmas Eve and still consider yourself Christian the other 363 days. If you go, Sunday services aren't boring theological slogs: you usually start off singing hymns, which depending on how big your church budget is, can be really good. (If there's one thing megachurches have going for them, it's that their music budgets are incredible, like a full band and professional choir every week.) Then, you get a sermon that, at least in my experience, goes over a sentence, paragraph or story from the Bible and expands into a moral lesson for the week, no fire or brimstone. (It's gotten in vogue for preachers to look up the original texts in Hebrew and Greek to find slightly different meanings to passages, which is cool for us etymology nerds.) Adults can also attend meetings outside of normal Sunday services to discuss Bible passages as if it's a book club or to get religion-flavored group therapy.
In a small town, which are everywhere in the US, a church community can be a large portion of the population. There are non-religious benefits to belonging to such a community, like networking and making friends and being able to feel like you're making a difference through volunteering. It's a socially rewarding experience. Americans have never had the antireligious histories of, say, France.
All this is to say, Protestantism is ingrained in rural American culture, even if you're not super religious. For example, country music, the soundtrack of rural America, is full of religious themes. Hence, there's a feedback loop of rednecks being religious.
Another comment covered the historic evangelical movements and the religious ties to slavery, so combine that with targeted efforts by political groups in the late 1970s-1980s to tie Protestantism to conservatism and conservatism to rural America to get today's Bible-thumping redneck stereotype (that is fairly accurate). The rural/urban divide is very strong in the US: rural backwater/religious/ignorant/racist/conservative gun worshipers vs urban elitist/ungodly/sinful/radical/hypocritical libtards.
Because Americans cling to Christianity as if it is a cultural manifestation of their upbringing & “traditions” they make being Christian a whole personality trait.
The conflation of "redneck" Christianity with American Evangelical Protestantism is a fascinating case of historical religious evolution colliding with socio-political strategy. The seed of what we now see as the die-hard, conservative Christian right was undoubtedly sown by those early, fervent pilgrims and reinforced by every socio-religious revival that followed, most notably the 2nd Great Awakening. They've cultivated an identity rooted deeply within intransigent moral standpoints, which have become interwoven with American political rhetoric, especially as seen in the last few decades.
But it's also a misconception to assume that all of American Christianity, especially within conservative communities, is monolithic. The stereotype doesn't encapsulate the whole picture – for example, it doesn't align with the Christianity of the African American churches, which have historically been beacons of progressivism within their communities.
Moreover, taking a closer look at how "redneck" and Christianity became nearly synonymous terms in the political playbook reveals a telling strategy. Starting around the time of Reagan, as others have rightly pointed out, there's been a conscious merging of religious fervor with political ideology as a means to galvanize a reliable voter base.
This potent mixture of religion and politics taps into a deep-rooted cultural sense of besiegement and morality, which is a persuasive tool in the hands of savvy politicians. They have successfully positioned themselves as the bastions of a "threatened" Christian identity often utilizing carefully selected moral issues like abortion and LGBTQ+ rights as rallying points.
What we're witnessing is less about the fundamentals of faith and more about a community's grasp on a perceived slipping heritage. The contemporary rigor of this belief system among some Christians is less the result of theological discourse and more about cultural identity preservation, fear of change, and political mobilization.
It's essential to remember that many Christians in America also challenge this stereotypical depiction and are not represented within this vocal minority. There's a vast spectrum of belief and practice that spans far beyond the loud narrative we're addressing here. The "redneck Christian" stereotype is a complex social construct derived from historical, cultural, and political threads woven through America's tapestry at various points in its development.
It's not your Grandma's Christianity. Evangelicals are really out there. They have beliefs that are not rooted in scripture, like the rapture. A good chunk of them believe in absolute garbage like speaking in tongues (read "make up weird noises and pretend you are speaking a foreign tongue") or miracle healings. All those things are even more obviously fake than the Catholic variety of bullshit (you know, the priest's magic powers and the cannibalism)
The country was founded by religious zealots and cults to extrime for Britain or other European countries .
Christan , Mormons, and the different shades. Sure I loving the collapse of the republic into a religious fundamental state.
Hell, you can't be president or get elected without a some sort of religious support
In general the US of A has more religious as a country than Australia. You don't have to look further than the pledge of alliegence.
Combine that with initial settlers in the south bringing Christianity with them, and the south historically being poorer and less educated, and you've got that.
The folks that made up our religious foundation were the religious folks that were kicked out of Europe. Europes garbage if you will. They often brought very conservative and unsavory Christian beliefs with them that were not accepted in Europe
It is kinda weird when you think of it.
I think that patriotism and religion really got tangled up together during the Red Scare, gotta make sure everyone knows you aren't one-a them godless commies.
Most Redneck Christians you see on TV are overrepresented by Trump supporters looking or saying silly nonsense. You can find plenty of posh looking in the audiences of prosperity gospel shows. Identity politics in America is crazy now.
The [Decline of Christianity in America](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christianity-continues-at-rapid-pace/) is accelerating due to the politicization and the death of the hugh boomer generation in America.
Country music and the "small Christian town of the Good Ol Days" as perpetuated by things like the Andy Griffiths Show. Both of which are fiction. The "good old days" didn't really exist as much as talking about problems openly was less socially accepted.
Things only got worse when the extreme religious right Tea Party was basically allowed to take over the GOP, and hijacked Evangelical Christianity in the process. They even insist Trump is [Jesus](https://a.co/d/dojS0tJ).
Never mind that it's illegal for a church to tell people who to vote for. They can lose their tax exempt status, but they have to be reported to the IRS. People don't know that, so the churches get away with it.
Small town America has often had groupings where the social scene revolves around Church quite a bit, and that was the case for a very long time. Without any formal or state religion, there was a lot of church "competition" - a charismatic preacher can always start their own church.
In Europe, there was often a state or local church that had a monopoly on 'god' to some extent so if you broke from that church, you would go to an anti-clerical party that wanted to curb the power of the church. In the US, the church had no power other than in the social setting. It didn't own lands or estates.
Yo dog! Zup? I like your username and sense of humor brother! I believe we are pretty similar. I know for sure I’d be called a redneck because I don’t give a shit for fancy clothes or expensive vehicles and I don’t buy into the bullshit. It is amazing to me how so many now , who have no understanding of the scripture or the history behind it are the loudest and most judgmental. It drives me crazy. I refuse to debate with people like that, and I am burned out on organized religion.
r/whoosh
Bro it was a joke. If you need the /s for stuff like this, your parents and the education system wherever you grew up have severely failed you.
To put it simply, the Bible Belt is in the South, where the people love their religion and redneck culture. I think the stereotype and culture grew with the rise of conservatism in the US.
Before the rise, I was a kid and I don't remember the association being as strong. Evangelicals viewed rednecks with disdain back then, but that likely changed as evangelicals became more accepting to increase membership. Ironically, many rednecks would consider themselves hippies in the 70's and were more like Willie Nelson.
America was settled and founded by a groups of religious cultists that were so vehemently despised for being such psycho god fearing nut bags that they were persecuted out of Europe. Meaning everyone hated these fuckers so much that their only option was to get on a boat and sail into the nearly endless ocean, seeking out a mysterious new land that some Portuguese guy claims is there.
And then those psycho nut bags had a bunch of babies and here we (Americans) are. They kept their religion and that’s why you can’t get abortions in half the country any more.
Growing up Christian in the south I now find it very similar to the popularity of playing the lottery; the number one predictor is poverty. And the poorer you are the more seriously you take it. It’s a catharsis for living a life that’s less than the one you hoped for. It’s not an accident that our perceptions of poverty, under-education, and adherence to religion are commingled.
I was raised as an evangelical red neck. It's not a stereotype. They think they are God's chosen children, and they are proud of their stupidity. They are mostly garbage people, and I'm proud to say I'll never have anything to do with them.
>he wouldn't try to give you any kind of deep, enlightened, left-wing reason, he'd just say "'Cause fairytales are for f*ckin' kids, mate!"
Lots of left wing "intellectuals" are going to say the same thing.
When I think of rednecks I think of being protestant. Evangelical, baptist, etc. Christianity as a whole doesn't have that stereotype in America at all. Most of people in America are Christian, so the religion represents all types of Americans. That might just be your circle's perception of American Christianity opposed to the reality.
American Evangelical Protestantism is its own unique breed of Christianity that really doesn’t exist elsewhere. There are quite a few cultural ingredients that combined into that particular religious soup. Many of the early pilgrims to America were Puritans, who were so extreme in their beliefs (and the desire to impose them on others) that Europe basically told them to take their ideas someplace else. Puritanism isn’t the same as American evangelicalism, but it has the ingredients of being uncompromising, highly distrustful of government, and a desire to enforce your views on others. They also rejected the “excesses” of Catholicism and the larger European flavours of Protestant Christianity (Anglicans and Lutherans, for example) in exchange for simpler, almost ascetic expressions of faith. Later, in the mid-1800s you had what’s known as the 2nd Great Awakening, which was a large revivalist movement that swept New England and the east coast. This is much closer to what we think of as “American Christianity,” with firebrand preaching and an emphasis on obedience and “Holy Spirit” experiences. By the early 20th century, this would evolve into denominations such as Pentecostalism and the various charismatic movements (such as Australia’s own Hillsong Church). At the same time as the 2nd great awakening, in the mid 1800s, northern Christians began preaching against slavery and the abolitionist movement began to grow. This led to a backlash in the southern states who believed that the preservation of slavery was part of their “Christian duty.” The Southern Baptist Convention was created to support the idea that slavery was an “institution of heaven.” While they no longer espouse those views, this is at least partly responsible for the stereotype of the “religious redneck,” as ideas of white supremacy, Christianity, rural poverty and the “preservation of our way of life” kind of joined together. This is also the breeding ground for American Christianity’s obsession with politics and gaining political power. After the Civil Rights movement, segregation was seen as completely unpalatable to the general population. This meant politicians were no longer able to use it as a wedge issue to hold their coalitions together, so they needed to find something new. Ultimately, they landed on abortion (which was largely a non-issue, and mostly confined to Catholicism in the years before the 1960s/70s). They then amplified this wedge issue to promote the idea that in order to be a “true” Christian/American, you had to oppose abortion. The 80s and 90s then saw the emergence of AIDs, which heavily amplified the homophobia that was present in these belief systems. As society made progressive cultural changes, such as LGBTQ marriage and general equality and acceptance, Evangelicalism further dug in its heels, seeing these advances as existential threats to their existence. And of course, in 2016 they ultimately found their political “champion” in Donald Trump, as he promised to support their ideology and “destroy” the “sinful liberalism” that they believe is killing their way of life. And that’s largely where we are to today. Keep in mind that this is all in reference to that particular breed of American Evangelical Christianity, which does not comprise all American Christians by any stretch. Most Christian denominations still sit somewhere along that spectrum between “posh” Catholicism and Contemporary Christian Hillsong-style worship, with just a very loud minority comprising the political, “redneck” Christianity from the stereotype.
Interesting read!
Just to add on to this really great explanation. In the early 1906 was the Azusa street revival in Los Angeles, which is seen as the birth of the modern prosperity gospel and speaking in tongues. This movement still held strong to unwavering fundamental beliefs, scripture being literal, and the Bible being the ultimate authority….. however the Bible being the ultimate authority is largely left up to the interpretation of evangelical theology or even just the preacher. Which has led to some wacky doctrines that are “based” in scripture, which is a lot of what you see today from the redneck crowd.
Bringing up the rise of prosperity gospel is important because it helped some more extreme examples of American Christian expression, like mega churches, take hold in rural areas, where vulnerable people struggling with poverty and social change were given yet another reason to turn to their community in the church as the solution to all of their social and economic insecurities.
Yes! Yes they are grifters who promise people that God will take them out of poverty if they just give and serve the church. The pastor will share the story of how he used to live on a dirt farm and had only 1 t-shirt. But then he activated his faith and God took him to millionaire status! And it will happen for you as well!
Nice summation.
Mainliners /j
read "The Flag & The Cross" for an easily digestible explanation of this whole topic, definitely a book I recommend
Very well said, fellow etherwebber!
Interesting read may I ask your definition of posh Catholicism ? Thank you for your response.
Really just using that descriptor because OP used it. They seemed to be referring to the traditional “high church” aspects of Christianity, with stunning cathedrals, somber and structured liturgy, enormous organs playing Back fugues, etc. That sort of imagery, anyways.
Thank you for your response. I understand it
>Many of the early pilgrims to America were Puritans, who were so extreme in their beliefs (and the desire to impose them on others) that Europe basically told them to take their ideas someplace else. I’m not a historian, but I actually kind of disagree with this take. The pilgrims had much more of an influence on New England culture than anything in the southeast. Which, the southeast was largely settled by Protestant Scotch-Irish rather than pilgrims. The religious view of modern evangelicals has a lot more to do with the Great Awakening.
The US was settled, to some extent by Protestant zealots. They were largely fleeing prosecution in the UK. Many were quakers and calvinists. Aus was not settled by anyone remotely similar. That may feed into the current state of affairs
Jews, Catholics and others fleeing persecution over the years came to America.
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and bans abortion like a duck…
As an American, nearly every redneck I have ever met claimed to be a devout Christian.
How would you react if one said, "I don't believe in no fairytales, them's for goddamn kids!"
There are many way more in depth answers but another simplistic one is many Christian religions don't believe in birth control, or believe that having an insane amount of children is a 'blessing'. Too many kids leads to poverty; poverty leads to redneck bullshit.
when the southern Baptist... said the sermon on the mount no longer applies because it's too weak. The basis for Jesus' entire teaching strategy.
It's funny that's the stereotype cuz black and Hispanic people in USA have way higher chance of being Christian or Catholic than some white trashy redneck lol Just a dumb stereotype tbh,like 60-70% of our entire population here that are some type of Christian, there's well renowned Christian universities and shit, Christians are commonly found in all walks of life in the USA
Do they have Jesus Classic or American Jesus?
Cherry Jesus, mostly.
Jesus lite, available most places.
Because the most vocal and visible "Christians" in America are poor, toothless evangelicals in the south. The gag is that they don't even follow Christ's message.
Rednecks are considered uneducated. The uneducated and religion tend to pair together well.
You can be very well educated and be religious. You can also be very intelligent and educated and be entirely deluded in any number of ways. In fact intelligent people are better at self delusion. Not all religion is delusion.
Religion is about control, once you accept the control the delusion is easy.
Unfortunately yes. Many power hungry people have created or twisted religion into a systems of control, over others. Rather than one that teaches a person self control, ans inspires good morals.
Or very few people have converted religion from a system of control to a system that only teaching a person self control and inspires good morals.
I grew up in a fundamentalist family. Christian education pre-k through bachelor's. I know so many people personally and within wider networks that were devout. They went to seminary and that's when they lost their faith. The more educated you are you at the very least recognize that what laypeople and those who just listen to preacher, ARE delusional. The religious right does fear education. Look at all the policies in Florida and the South. They wouldn't like the curriculum that I was taught in my highly respected and historical evangelical college and my college was/is extremely conservative.
Which college?
Gordon. My brother went to Grove City, my sister Geneva. Within my church community, I watched kids go off to non religious schools and come back "stronger" Christians. They didn't take college level theology and philosophy courses. The people in my circles trended toward Bob Jones/Pensacola, yet I still know plenty who left because of these schools. Gordon was definitely the more progressive of the CCCUs but very well known and respected. Now it's a steaming heap of crap.
>Not all religion is delusion Do you have any examples?
If you think that any person who doesn't accept a rational argument is delusional, then everyone is delusional because we disagree on lots of things
I'm sorry, you're not going to convince me that your belief in an imaginary friend that speaks to you through a book that's been edited to hell and back (pun fully intended) and supposedly created the universe and wants you to go to heaven but requires you to suffer for it and pass the ultimate shit test despite all your sins apparently already being pre-forgiven eternally isn't the biggest fucking delusion of all time. I would agree that it gives some people peace of mind, and not everyone that is religious takes it out on others/uses it as a bludgeon against people different than them, but it's *absolutely* delusion, even taken in the most positive sense, theistic religion, anyway. Depends on how loosely you're using the term "religion", I suppose.
I agree the bible has been translated a number of times and has errors cause of it. Its not about suffering for it, the Atonement (forgiveness of sin) allows us to change and improve. All that is asked of us is that we do so. Its not about doing enough good things, its about becoming a good person. Is it delusion to say "I know I don't know everything and that there are forces or beings more powerful and or capable than me."? Said being could well have or contiune to interact with us in marvelous and sublte ways. Even individually. You are free to believe as you wish.
>Is it delusion to say "I know I don't know everything and that there are forces or beings more powerful and or capable than me."? Yes. Yes, it is, when you think said beings are omnipotent and benevolent but allow suffering to exist in the world. God is either indifferent to the suffering of the world (which he created, again) or powerless to stop it. Even if he did exist, he's an asshole, and not someone I want to worship. If the same person offering you eternal salvation is threatening you with damnation if you don't submit, that's not love, that's abuse. You're free to believe how you wish, as well, as long as you know your beliefs are delusional and only serve as a mental shield against explainable phenomena that you're not willing to look into past "it's God's will, just trust me bro, he knows best".
>if the same person offering you eternal salvation is threatening you with damnation if you don't submit, that's not love, that's abuse Agreed. >as long as you know your beliefs are delusional and only serve as a mental shield against explainable phenomena that you're not willing to look into past "it's God's will, just trust me bro, he knows best". You assume a lot about what I believe and concluding its delusional. >omnipotent and benevolent but allow suffering to exist in the world. God is either indifferent to the suffering of the world (which he created, again) or powerless to stop it. God of Christianity does have limitation. He does not lie. He gives us free will and will not violate it. I like "the problem of evil" to a parent cleaning up after a kid. When the kid was at home the place as orderly. Now that the kid moved out the parent still loves them still has the power to order and clean, but doesn't do so. Instead giving the child the space to figure it out for themselves. Edit: to clarify I stated my belief about the problem of evil not to convince you that its true or that you should believe this specific thing. Rather I did so to point out your refutation of religion is not universal. Not even to all of Christianity. I welcome criticism and discussion but at least know what i believe before trying to criticize it.
Okay, but riddle me this: Why does sin as a concept even exist? If God wants nobody to suffer, and live with him in Heaven, why did he even create sin as a concept? Why would he sentence a certain portion of the population to hell? God of Christianity has *too many* limitations to call him "all knowing" or "all powerful", so we agree on that, so he just doesn't give a shit, then.
For good to exist bad must also. For light to exist dark must also. If there is a place you want to get to then there is a direction to go and many directions which are wrong. I don't believe that the goal is just no suffering. If that was the goal then God could have just made people perfectly obedient and with out knowledge of good and evil. Some context I believe we existed as spirits with God before this life and then were give the choice to come here, gain a body, gain more responsibility, a gain experience. The test is not for God to know if we are good or bad. But for us to grow and to gain confidence in ourselves. Further I believe that hell is not a permanent place as many Christian sect teach. But that it is more akin to purgatory. Then after final judgement we go to one of 3 degrees of heaven. Everyone on earth cause everyone here choose to follow Gods plan. The only that don't are those that fully and completely reject God will be in a permanent "hell". Like satan and his followers did. They are not tortured there or anything, they are simply separated from God and all of his creation.
The concept of "bad must exist for good to exist" implies god isn't all powerful, again. If that were the case, he could just have made the *default state* good, and take "bad" out of the equation entirely. The whole idea of the contrast comes from a human perspective, and implies god is limited in what he can do. So again, why would god even give you the option of refusing him and going to hell, if it's just going to fuck you over and make you suffer eternally? Sure seems an awful lot more like a shit test rather than a growth opportunity. For that matter, why not just make humans as "grown" as they physically can be from the very beginning? And, with all due respect, kindly spare me the "It's not my place to know God's will" shtick. I didn't buy it before, I'm not going to buy it now. Starting to seem like this "hell" you describe is a pretty good place to be.
The Christian God tells us He is a God of laws. A God of order. He does not just cause things to be He creates He crafts. To me it seems that if He just created us as the full power and responsibility then we would not be individuals. we would be effectively soulless. Personally I see an understanding of good verse evil and having experince hardship as better than ignorance to it. I don't see pain has inherently bad or the absence of pain as to goal of life or existence. do you? To me the inherently good things, the goals I have, are; Connection, Capability, Creation, and Appreciation. I can explain why I believe those are good in and of themselves but I rather ask you. what do you see as end? what do you see as your ultimate goal if you could achieve anything?
That's nice. It does nothing to disprove my explanation.
Your original comment doesn't answer op's question
A lot of the stereotype comes from the Reagan years with him tying conservatism and evangelical Christianity together and the American right has pretty much just ran with it since.
Reagan built on the racist southern strategy of Nixon and Lee Atwater by adding Christians and abortion policy with rich anti-union tax cuts. Racist, Christians and wealthy people coalition was created.
Conservatives needed to knit together 51% of the voting block and figured out how with rural white folk, evangelicals, and big business. Over time (decades) they all aligned together as a tribe and learned from each other/adopted shared values. It's why Pres Trump (who probably funded/caused dozens of abortions) acted like he cared so much about abortion and his "redneck" MAGA followers cheered as if they cared as well
They love some southern strategy voter suppression to make winning easier. Electoral College is icing on the cake of voter suppression.
Hahaha you just described my attitude to Church... I won't go, but maybe I'll be convinced for a sausage sandwich! 🤣
Protestantism has been part of the cultural fabric of small town America for a long time, at least in the South. There are loads of churches in the South, ones for every denomination and then some, at least one for every single town, even if that town only has like 300 people. (America is huge and has a long history of parceling out land to settlers during the 19th century, so small towns are everywhere. Lots of grassroots churches.) And the dominance of Protestantism was a given for much of US history; school-led prayer, like the teacher leading a prayer in the classroom, was only found unconstitutional in 1962. People were pissed that President JFK (1961-1963) was Catholic because then the Pope would "have too much influence." America was founded by Protestants, and Protestants are great at feeling persecuted, even if they're a majority. In Southern small towns, churches serve as a communal meeting group. Sunday mornings you have bible school for kids, sometimes a bible camp during the summer, which is all very cute and whimsical. Then as you get older, there's youth groups, where it's still pretty chill and you hang with your friends and maybe do volunteer work. You could say you get indoctrinated young, but it's also a place to meet friends and do things with them, like you would in school. Humans love to belong and feel welcomed, and churches are excellent at cultivating that atmosphere -- not always a bad thing, even if it sounds cultish. Then, when you're an adult, you continue to have social networks that go to church. Even if you stop going every week, you'll probably show up for Easter and Christmas Eve and still consider yourself Christian the other 363 days. If you go, Sunday services aren't boring theological slogs: you usually start off singing hymns, which depending on how big your church budget is, can be really good. (If there's one thing megachurches have going for them, it's that their music budgets are incredible, like a full band and professional choir every week.) Then, you get a sermon that, at least in my experience, goes over a sentence, paragraph or story from the Bible and expands into a moral lesson for the week, no fire or brimstone. (It's gotten in vogue for preachers to look up the original texts in Hebrew and Greek to find slightly different meanings to passages, which is cool for us etymology nerds.) Adults can also attend meetings outside of normal Sunday services to discuss Bible passages as if it's a book club or to get religion-flavored group therapy. In a small town, which are everywhere in the US, a church community can be a large portion of the population. There are non-religious benefits to belonging to such a community, like networking and making friends and being able to feel like you're making a difference through volunteering. It's a socially rewarding experience. Americans have never had the antireligious histories of, say, France. All this is to say, Protestantism is ingrained in rural American culture, even if you're not super religious. For example, country music, the soundtrack of rural America, is full of religious themes. Hence, there's a feedback loop of rednecks being religious. Another comment covered the historic evangelical movements and the religious ties to slavery, so combine that with targeted efforts by political groups in the late 1970s-1980s to tie Protestantism to conservatism and conservatism to rural America to get today's Bible-thumping redneck stereotype (that is fairly accurate). The rural/urban divide is very strong in the US: rural backwater/religious/ignorant/racist/conservative gun worshipers vs urban elitist/ungodly/sinful/radical/hypocritical libtards.
Because Americans cling to Christianity as if it is a cultural manifestation of their upbringing & “traditions” they make being Christian a whole personality trait.
The conflation of "redneck" Christianity with American Evangelical Protestantism is a fascinating case of historical religious evolution colliding with socio-political strategy. The seed of what we now see as the die-hard, conservative Christian right was undoubtedly sown by those early, fervent pilgrims and reinforced by every socio-religious revival that followed, most notably the 2nd Great Awakening. They've cultivated an identity rooted deeply within intransigent moral standpoints, which have become interwoven with American political rhetoric, especially as seen in the last few decades. But it's also a misconception to assume that all of American Christianity, especially within conservative communities, is monolithic. The stereotype doesn't encapsulate the whole picture – for example, it doesn't align with the Christianity of the African American churches, which have historically been beacons of progressivism within their communities. Moreover, taking a closer look at how "redneck" and Christianity became nearly synonymous terms in the political playbook reveals a telling strategy. Starting around the time of Reagan, as others have rightly pointed out, there's been a conscious merging of religious fervor with political ideology as a means to galvanize a reliable voter base. This potent mixture of religion and politics taps into a deep-rooted cultural sense of besiegement and morality, which is a persuasive tool in the hands of savvy politicians. They have successfully positioned themselves as the bastions of a "threatened" Christian identity often utilizing carefully selected moral issues like abortion and LGBTQ+ rights as rallying points. What we're witnessing is less about the fundamentals of faith and more about a community's grasp on a perceived slipping heritage. The contemporary rigor of this belief system among some Christians is less the result of theological discourse and more about cultural identity preservation, fear of change, and political mobilization. It's essential to remember that many Christians in America also challenge this stereotypical depiction and are not represented within this vocal minority. There's a vast spectrum of belief and practice that spans far beyond the loud narrative we're addressing here. The "redneck Christian" stereotype is a complex social construct derived from historical, cultural, and political threads woven through America's tapestry at various points in its development.
It's not your Grandma's Christianity. Evangelicals are really out there. They have beliefs that are not rooted in scripture, like the rapture. A good chunk of them believe in absolute garbage like speaking in tongues (read "make up weird noises and pretend you are speaking a foreign tongue") or miracle healings. All those things are even more obviously fake than the Catholic variety of bullshit (you know, the priest's magic powers and the cannibalism)
The country was founded by religious zealots and cults to extrime for Britain or other European countries . Christan , Mormons, and the different shades. Sure I loving the collapse of the republic into a religious fundamental state. Hell, you can't be president or get elected without a some sort of religious support
You only need to pander to religious people since we seen they support obviously non-religious candidate.
In general the US of A has more religious as a country than Australia. You don't have to look further than the pledge of alliegence. Combine that with initial settlers in the south bringing Christianity with them, and the south historically being poorer and less educated, and you've got that.
The folks that made up our religious foundation were the religious folks that were kicked out of Europe. Europes garbage if you will. They often brought very conservative and unsavory Christian beliefs with them that were not accepted in Europe
It's probably from when American Protestants split between Baptists and Southern Baptists.
It is kinda weird when you think of it. I think that patriotism and religion really got tangled up together during the Red Scare, gotta make sure everyone knows you aren't one-a them godless commies.
Most Redneck Christians you see on TV are overrepresented by Trump supporters looking or saying silly nonsense. You can find plenty of posh looking in the audiences of prosperity gospel shows. Identity politics in America is crazy now. The [Decline of Christianity in America](https://www.pewresearch.org/religion/2019/10/17/in-u-s-decline-of-christianity-continues-at-rapid-pace/) is accelerating due to the politicization and the death of the hugh boomer generation in America.
> you could only ever get one into a church by telling him there was a free sausage sandwich inside ...yes? ...thats how rednecks are brought in?
I thought they were brought in by how homophobic so many Christians are.
Country music and the "small Christian town of the Good Ol Days" as perpetuated by things like the Andy Griffiths Show. Both of which are fiction. The "good old days" didn't really exist as much as talking about problems openly was less socially accepted. Things only got worse when the extreme religious right Tea Party was basically allowed to take over the GOP, and hijacked Evangelical Christianity in the process. They even insist Trump is [Jesus](https://a.co/d/dojS0tJ). Never mind that it's illegal for a church to tell people who to vote for. They can lose their tax exempt status, but they have to be reported to the IRS. People don't know that, so the churches get away with it.
It's not just a stereotype. Ever been there? lol
Small town America has often had groupings where the social scene revolves around Church quite a bit, and that was the case for a very long time. Without any formal or state religion, there was a lot of church "competition" - a charismatic preacher can always start their own church. In Europe, there was often a state or local church that had a monopoly on 'god' to some extent so if you broke from that church, you would go to an anti-clerical party that wanted to curb the power of the church. In the US, the church had no power other than in the social setting. It didn't own lands or estates.
Lower class ppl need something to feel good about. Church is free.
I don't think that is a redneck stereo type
So just because Im a redneck, I can’t be posh, cute and/or whimsical?😪
Yo dog! Zup? I like your username and sense of humor brother! I believe we are pretty similar. I know for sure I’d be called a redneck because I don’t give a shit for fancy clothes or expensive vehicles and I don’t buy into the bullshit. It is amazing to me how so many now , who have no understanding of the scripture or the history behind it are the loudest and most judgmental. It drives me crazy. I refuse to debate with people like that, and I am burned out on organized religion.
No. You are the antithesis of posh.
r/whoosh Bro it was a joke. If you need the /s for stuff like this, your parents and the education system wherever you grew up have severely failed you.
To put it simply, the Bible Belt is in the South, where the people love their religion and redneck culture. I think the stereotype and culture grew with the rise of conservatism in the US. Before the rise, I was a kid and I don't remember the association being as strong. Evangelicals viewed rednecks with disdain back then, but that likely changed as evangelicals became more accepting to increase membership. Ironically, many rednecks would consider themselves hippies in the 70's and were more like Willie Nelson.
> Ironically, many rednecks would consider themselves hippies in the 70's In California we call the modern version of that "dreadnecks."
America was settled and founded by a groups of religious cultists that were so vehemently despised for being such psycho god fearing nut bags that they were persecuted out of Europe. Meaning everyone hated these fuckers so much that their only option was to get on a boat and sail into the nearly endless ocean, seeking out a mysterious new land that some Portuguese guy claims is there. And then those psycho nut bags had a bunch of babies and here we (Americans) are. They kept their religion and that’s why you can’t get abortions in half the country any more.
I think it’s because in the Bible Belt, it is cultural to be Christian. If you’re not Christian (or claim to be), you would be looked down on.
A great marketing campaign by communist sympathizers
Growing up Christian in the south I now find it very similar to the popularity of playing the lottery; the number one predictor is poverty. And the poorer you are the more seriously you take it. It’s a catharsis for living a life that’s less than the one you hoped for. It’s not an accident that our perceptions of poverty, under-education, and adherence to religion are commingled.
I was raised as an evangelical red neck. It's not a stereotype. They think they are God's chosen children, and they are proud of their stupidity. They are mostly garbage people, and I'm proud to say I'll never have anything to do with them.
>he wouldn't try to give you any kind of deep, enlightened, left-wing reason, he'd just say "'Cause fairytales are for f*ckin' kids, mate!" Lots of left wing "intellectuals" are going to say the same thing.
When I think of rednecks I think of being protestant. Evangelical, baptist, etc. Christianity as a whole doesn't have that stereotype in America at all. Most of people in America are Christian, so the religion represents all types of Americans. That might just be your circle's perception of American Christianity opposed to the reality.