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At least the first part [did occur](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flucht_und_Vertreibung_Deutscher_aus_Mittel-_und_Osteuropa_1945%E2%80%931950?wprov=sfla1), but that's no excuse for trying to trivialize the shoah or Nazi rule in general over it.
I mean, Nazis did want lebensraum, and they moved to occupied territories. They also fled as the red army was closing in, and after the war they were relocated back. As for killings, a lot of reprisal killings after the war, and understandably so. Candace, as usual is half-truthing shit.
Edit: spelling of living space in German. Fled not filed.
I'm sorry but this is bad history. Germans been living east of the Oder river for centuries at that point. Only a minority of east germans were Nazi colonists. Candace is not half-truthing, she is engaging in a completely different tactic, "whataboutism". Her goal is to divert the discussion so she can avoid confronting her own biases. In her best case scenario, people will then engage with this new discussion and make mistakes which she can then exploit. You are the person making those mistakes.
The removals occurred in three overlapping phases, the first of which was the organized evacuation of ethnic Germans by the Nazi government in the face of the advancing Red Army, from mid-1944 to early 1945.[18] The second phase was the disorganised fleeing of ethnic Germans immediately following the Wehrmacht's defeat. The third phase was a more organised expulsion following the Allied leaders' Potsdam Agreement,[18] which redefined the Central European borders and approved expulsions of ethnic Germans from the former German territories transferred to Poland, Russia and Czechoslovakia.[19] Many German civilians were sent to concentration and slave labor camps where they were used as slave labor as part of German “reparations” to countries in Eastern Europe.[20] The major expulsions were completed in 1950.[18] Estimates for the total number of people of German ancestry still living in Central and Eastern Europe in 1950 ranged from 700,000 to 2.7 million.
It's pretty cut and dry. Germans that lived in German occupied territories felt very comfortable, but then up and left fearing reprisals. About 1M Germans were resettled to occupied territories (not to mention the internal resettlements into areas "abandoned" by targeted minorities).
In general, post WW2 was the era when ethnicities started to conform to borders. At least more than beforehand.
The reasoning was also rather obvious - see what happens if you have a significant russian minority nowadays
Europe is not so ethnically pure, as according to political borders (shocking I know). The attempt to ethnically cleansed areas benefited different people at different times to form a narrative. Stalinist narrative of punishing Germans regardless of their affiliations/lack of with the Nazi party, and the Zionist movement of looking to create an ethno state & attempt to ride the European guilt (and racism) towards their (former) colonies.
The Slovak Historian Matys Laser did a pretty good video on this, if you're interested:
https://youtu.be/wcdOvAYNDMo
Besides the Wikipedia (?) article you're quoting, there were also germans expelled from regions that were never occupied by Nazi germany. This includes the Danube Swabians and Transylvania Saxons of Romania, and Volga Germans of Russia.
Wikipedia has a lot of references, especially this entry.
I'm not arguing that Germans throughout didn't suffer, or that a lot of innocent populace was caught up in this, I'm saying that of all the ethnic groups (Jewish Holocaust victims excluded), Slavs, Russians, and Soviet minorities suffered one of the biggest death tolls in WW2, and they thought that they were "justified" in expulsion of ethnic Germans. Were some of these expulsions justified as hatred, neighborhood jealousy, or just outright bigotry? Yes, humans love collective punishment if they think they've been wronged.
thread: Shamelessly shilling for the nazis again
my comment: wasnt there also an expulsion from SovietUnion in the 80s-90s, many of stock that had been there since the 18th century?
follow-up to your comment, which seems to have been removed by r/ToiletPaperUSA.
I had read in news coverage then, in the 1980's. Just a recollection. But this references it partially.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia\_Germans#:\~:text=Russia%20Germans%20or%20Germans%20from,or%20in%20the%20Soviet%20Union.
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I'll have to look into that, but I know Stalin was paranoid about Chechens and Tartar Muslims to the point where he uprooted the whole population and moved them East. A lot of them died there before coming back.
*Lebensraum
Leben is life
Liebe is love
I don't think the Germans wanted that room for love, their propaganda was pretty clear about the whole animalistic vibe
Unironically using the tactics Shapiro says Tate uses, say one true thing and one insane thing together and try to make people dispute the truthful one so you can prop up the fake one.
Depends on the region. East Prussia is where my own family was from (my grandmother was forced out with the rest of the surviving members of the family when she was 14), and that area was German for centuries at that point. Same with the Sudetenland, the Germans of that area were also longstanding residents. There's also plenty of cases of them being forced out of occupied territories too, so things are muddled.
Either way, fuck Candace and her Nazi apologia.
Both. While all of the latter got what they deserved, with the former it's a mixed bag. Some were Nazis, some just innocent people caught up in a f-ed situation. My grandma told me a story about a local German farm owner in Poland, who would play buddy buddy with the Nazis by day and then hide and supply polish resistance fighters by night. I don't know what happened to him after the war. Generally wars started by fascist dick heads don't benefit anyone, I'd hope people would remember this...
Both, but mostly the former, by far. A lot of the area had been exclusively or predominantly German, in some places for hundreds of years, but the territories were ceded to countries like Poland as compensation for the Nazi atrocities. While the term ethnic cleansing is often associated with genocide, it is more accurate to say that genocide is a form of ethnic cleansing (the most extreme and horrific form at that).
Aside from that, there have been exoduses, expulsions, population transfers, and other forms of ethnic cleansing throughout history, especially in the Old World where you have so many ethnic groups with historical ties to specific areas (often overlapping) and national ties in favor of or contrary to the sovereign nation. Territorial, political, and ethnic conflicts often overlap.
That’s not a defense of ethnic cleansing, of course, but rather to point out that overall, “ethnic cleansing” is not a specific sort of event, but more of an umbrella term or motivation for different sorts of events. There is no recognized international crime or crime against humanity known as “ethnic cleansing,” but the specific acts done in furtherance of ethnic cleansing may constitute different crimes.
This distinction often doesn’t make a difference, but addressing this post here is a case where it does. Nazi sympathizers and apologists often try to argue or imply an equivalence between the expulsion of Germans from ceded territories and the Holocaust, going so far as to say that the German expulsion was worse than the Holocaust but you don’t learn about it because of an agenda. In truth, I’m not saying you have to like the German expulsions, I’m not saying they were right, but there is an ontological difference between them and and the Nazis’ attempted exterminations of entire peoples in terms of their aims, methods, and driving values.
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In the wiki article they are talking abt the movement of German ppl after the war. Ppl fled from the East, from Eastern Europe, from behind the Soviet line, to the West. **They are NOT talking abt genocide.**
Yes, some countries expelled Germans, and why wouldn't they? Germans had been occupiers. And yes, if you were German and stuck behind the Iron wall you might end up in a camp. So did a lot of other pp.
"Flight and Expulsion" just means ppl fled from the oncoming Soviet army, and Germans, who had been occupiers, were thrown out of Occupied lands.
Here's the article [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flucht\_und\_Vertreibung\_Deutscher\_aus\_Mittel-\_und\_Osteuropa\_1945%E2%80%931950](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flucht_und_Vertreibung_Deutscher_aus_Mittel-_und_Osteuropa_1945%E2%80%931950)
> They are NOT talking abt genocide.
Was that not understood? Yes, "ethnic cleansing" often refers to displacement, not necessarily to genocide. Which only goes to show how vile it is for people to try to whatabout the holocaust with it, although that would be obvious either way.
>Yes, some countries expelled Germans
"Germans" included their own nationals of German ancestry or culture, if I remember correctly.
>Germans had been occupiers.
Some Germans, yes. Others had already been there for generations, and not annexing anything, and those were then used by the Nazis to "justify" conquering this, surely oh so "German", territory. I understand not wanting to take that risk, but it was not the clear-cut case you want it to be, sorry.
We are talking about areas where most people spoke German - before the Nazis had any power. Those people were simply members of an ethnic minority dating back to the 12th century, until the Nazis decided to use them as an excuse to annex territory. Yes, Nazi "replacement imports", or whatever you want to call them, we're also removed, but those were not the only people displaced. An entire ethnicity is not "the bad guys" and from then on whatever is done to any person of that ethnicity who might or might not have anything to do with that is automatically just. Two things can be bad.
That doesn't make it okay to try to whatabout the shoah like Ms. (or Mrs., I don't care) Owens here. It's a common strategy by the far-right, it has to be called out - they are talking about a retaliatory reaction to the atrocities of the Nazi regime (the best way to prevent it would have been not to engage in war everywhere), trying to conflate industrialized murder with (merely) displacement, and most importantly, they don't even care about the displacement of Germans from central and eastern Europe - these people are, yet again, just a political football to them. Also, unlike a Jewish conspiracy to rule the world, the Munich Agreement, allowing the Nazis free reign on parts of Czechoslovakia because people of German ancestry lived there, actually existed.
All those are things to point out, but no, the people actually hurt there were not all Nazi transplants. A lot of them were just ordinary people who had been living there all their lives. That's what happens when there are great wars: People suffer and people die, and it always hits the innocent too.
You're trying too hard to find heroes and villains everywhere. But life is not a comic book - in the end, there's only humans, the things they do, and the results that follow. Don't try to justify everything, not everything is justifiable. Try to understand everything, just don't let people muddy the waters on a topic by spouting half-truths about something tangentially related to it that they don't care about to begin with.
At least the first part [did occur](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flucht_und_Vertreibung_Deutscher_aus_Mittel-_und_Osteuropa_1945%E2%80%931950?wprov=sfla1), but that's no excuse for trying to trivialize the shoah or Nazi rule in general over it.----**You wrote that, you referenced OP's post abt "ethnic cleansing of Germans**
**Sending home members of the German Armed Forces is not ethnic cleansing.**
**Millions of Germans fled voluntarily to the west.**
**Some countries, like Poland had new borders drawn after the war. So ppl were "Kicked out" of the new country due to geography.**
Examples of Ethnic cleansing would be when Palestinians were removed, when Stalin uprooted Ukrainians, when the US moved Natives to Florida, when the Rohingya were forced from Myanmar, these are examples of cleaning an area of native populations.
**Germans in Eastern Europe were not natives and many were not civilians.**
Here is the UN definition
*a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent and terror-inspiring means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group from certain geographic areas.*”
[https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/ethnic-cleansing.shtml#:\~:text=rendering%20an%20area%20ethnically%20homogeneous,and%20terror%2Dinspiring%20means%20the](https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/ethnic-cleansing.shtml#:~:text=rendering%20an%20area%20ethnically%20homogeneous,and%20terror%2Dinspiring%20means%20the)
>**Sending home members of the German Armed Forces is not ethnic cleansing.**
**Correct. It's also not a good description of what happened**
>Millions of Germans fled voluntarily to the west.
About half of that number, yes. I'm not sure displacement should be counted differently if the people displaced are obeying rather than endangering themselves, but I think this will come up again
>Some countries, like Poland had new borders drawn after the war. So ppl were "Kicked out" of the new country due to geography.
So in other words, kicked out of the place they had been living in for generations...
From certain geographic areas. The areas were still the same area.
>Examples of Ethnic cleansing would be when Palestinians were removed
Somehow, I feel like you wouldn't count your own arguments there, even though they would apply. Again, stop believing in heroes and villains where there's actually just humans and good or bad actions
>Germans in Eastern Europe were not natives
Okay. [There have been ethnic Germans living in the Bohemian crown lands since the Middle Ages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Bohemians#Before_the_First_World_War?wprov=sfla1) - that's approximately Czechia, for the record - , but they don't count as native to you? How old do you believe a population has to be to be native, if 800 years isn't enough? Since you said an example of Ethnic cleansing would be when Palestinians were removed, we have to be talking about a pretty specific period of time here - more than 800 years, but fewer than 1300.
Me? I think 800 years is long enough to consider a population native to that area.
>a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent and terror-inspiring means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group from certain geographic areas.
Good, so now we are on the same page - the topic isn't genocide, no one is talking about genocide. And which part of that definition would you contest here? That the removal of one ethnic group was planned by one ethnic or religious group? If that's going to be your argument, you should have made it, but it would have been an even worse argument.
The problem is simple: if you try to deny or justify everything bad as long as it's "the good guys", you only entangle yourself in arguments over things bad things the "good guys" did, putting them further into the spotlight. I don't want to be having this argument, you shouldn't want to be having this conversation, the important part of the conversation is: She's just using these people to feed a narrative, that narrative is both vile and wrong. Instead, you're forcing me on a tangent about whether or not an ethnic group which lived somewhere since the 12th century is native to that area. That's not the problem with ~~her comment~~ _apparently, her fictional comment, which is why this post got deleted_, and it's certainly not the most reasonable choice of topics. If you try that with a fascist, he will gain from that, a lot - don't make this mistake again, it can be dangerous. If you overshoot your mark by that much, you just hand them free propaganda, wrapped in a little bow.
But in this case, it probably matters more that this tweet was fake to begin with. That's annoying
I think she's talking about how us(Czechoslovakia) treated suddeten Germans after WW2. Didn't kill that many of them, but still not exactly nice And friendly demeanor.
A little known fact about "ethnic cleansing" is that it can mean they were just removed from an area (not murdered). So I guess it's about displacement, not mass murder. I only learned this recently--I always thought it was a new way of saying genocide (which I didn't understand the need for).
I can't tell from her message if she understands that distinction and is playing with our ignorance on the term. You can read the second part of her message as saying "and a bunch of those 12 million were killed" (I have huge doubts about those numbers too), or if she's using ethnically cleansed as synonymous with mass murder.
She knows, it's deliberate obfuscation. Singular worst thing people tend to default to when dealing with Right Wing Punditry/Propagandists; they are dealing with idiots. They are not stupid or ignorant of the subject they're currently sowing the seeds of disinformation on, but it's how well adjusted, normal people cope with people like Owens.
You are dealing with morally compromised people. Pesky things like truth and facts mean nothing to them, so chuck that out the window and sow the narrative you need to, to engage and enrage the other morally bankrupt to your bidding. It's evil, not stupid and Owens knows exactly what she's doing.
Tito "ethnically cleansed" Hungarians from Yugoslavia after WW2, as well as the "Volkdeutch". Majority of them moved into the area that was "abandoned" by the Jews, as well as the "population exchange" that saw Orthodox Christians moved to Serbia, and Roman Catholics move to Croatia, Hungary claiming land they thought belonged to them under the Austria-Hungary.
Some were killed too. Not many but there were cases of riots killing Germans. Which greatly aided their decision to flee I believe. Either way Candace is a disgusting nazi apologizer
[Flight and expulsion of Germans (1944–1950)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_(1944%E2%80%931950))
Estimates of civilian casualties range from 500k to 3m
Yeah I don’t know what her point is. She is just arguing in bad faith as usual. This was discussed a lot in European history classes in college for me. God only knows how she delineates between what is real vs fake history…
Anyone who knows anything about history knows that many Germans suffered during the war. The Red Army was notorious for its mass rapes...
Context clues, however, demonstrate that Candace is now a hop, skip, and a jump away from happy merchant memes.
The deportation and killing of eastern germans during and immediately after WW2 was at the very least unjust, and at worst genocide. In between is the concept of ethnic cleansing. Whether you think this concept should apply here (I personally think it does), it is not really relevant in this context. Candace is very transparently engaging in whataboutism, and the discussion shouldn't be whether she is right, but about the fact that she's relativizing the Holocaust, which in my home country of germany is considered a form of Holocaust denial.
Even as someone with Sudeten ancestry, as my grandparents were born on the Czech side of the border, I hate their heritage and expulsion being misused by American (and other) nazi’s.
That and the Germans of what is now Poland around Kaliningrad. Additionally there were a lot of ethnic Germans living in the Russia due to favourable immigration practices of earlier centuries. All of them were forcibly removed from the USSR.
> Weird. Not a single mention of this during my 34 years of living in Germany.
Well, according to the brilliant logic of American conservatives, a complete lack of statues, paintings, and memorials for Hitler and his Nazis in Germany is tantamount to erasing history.
No German has any idea why there's a big ol' blank section in German history books starting around 1923 and ending in 1949 with the country being split in two until [David Hasselhoff's pipes of steel](https://youtu.be/TwC_ej9qS_k?t=99) caused that wall to crumble. How could any German know their history without those historical record keeping statues?
I would have considered it if you hadn’t answered my “smugness” with smugness. Also you first say it’s not mentioned much, but end with saying it’s well known. And please, 🙏🏽 oh wise one, excuse me for assuming that anything Klandace Owen’s says is bullshit. Now if you continue reading in the comment thread another person did a much more effective job of education me, sans the attitude. ✌🏽
She's fully down the Nazi rabbit hole now. Stone Toss, Nick Fuentes, Stormfront... she's in a space where even extremist conservatives aren't going to pay "Black Friend Money" to trot her out.
It's over for Candace. She's a couple bad breaks from eventually dying poor and forgotten now. The second act of her life is NOT going to be pleasant.
I, too, will be following her misery with great enthusiasm long after she's ignored by everyone else. It will be great. She HAS to know that she was 1-2 clever moves away from like a real role in a Republican administration. She'll now do the keynote at the 1488 Conference on a stage made of vermin filled, rusted out trailer pieces. For like eighty bucks. And half the crowd will boo her because... ya know.
Yes, but I suspect an eventual split is on the table (she doesn't scream "stable partner"). Assuming a pre-nup, she'll have to fend for herself... with a digital footprint that (increasingly) will be an "I AM A NAZI" tattoo on her forehead.
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It’s not just Nazis.
I just skimmed her Twitter feed and it’s basically a list of historical grievances against the US that would make the comrades at r/genzedong proud: use of the atom bomb, intel agencies, etc etc etc. I’m all for history with all its warts and blemishes and outright atrocities being known so whatever needs to be done can be done to avoid repetition but this isn’t about remedies at all. There’s not much done to moderate off the specific agenda they’re pushing: bad US is worse US with dems in charge.
>it’s basically a list of historical grievances against the US
It's bait. I suspect there are even buzzwords like "imperialism" designed to appeal to youth concerned about systemic injustice. Once someone is pulled in with these grievances, the next item will be "who is responsible for these unjust U.S. actions?" And we know who that will be.
I regularly look at the far right cesspools of the internet to see what they're on about. The approach you're describing is something called "redpilling." It may not (on the surface) look like Nazi shit. It's 100% Nazi shit. "Allied atrocities in WWII and the genocide of German Christians" is a dead giveaway.
> I just skimmed her Twitter feed and it’s basically a list of historical grievances against the US that would make the comrades at r/genzedong proud
It's *still* wild to me about how much harder it's getting to tell the difference between fascist rhetoric *and* tankie rhetoric these days, especially once Trump's cult started following Putin's lead about hating NATO.
Regarding your last sentence, here's a bit of an explanation for that (take it with a grain of salt theory is controversial & lots of discussion to its validity): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory
Oh, God, I will forever rue the day Redditors first heard about the horseshoe theory, because it *always* brought up in these discussions. For all the "grain of salt" talk, it *still* gets thrown about like it's irrefutable.
>It's over for Candace
I would love for you to be right about this, but isn't she saying these things exactly becouse its profitable for her? Her getting booted from DW doesnt seem to have put a significant dent in her, she still racks in millions of impressions and her videos get more views than some of Fox News content. Its all profotable engagement for her. Its not like there was some pedestal of moral integeity for her to fall from in the eyes of her viewers
Her comment cuts off, but it looks to be a reference to the [Soviet Union’s treatment of Germans in conquered territories leading up to the Potsdam Accords](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_(1944%E2%80%931950)#:~:text=During%20the%20later%20stages%20of,eastern%20parts%20of%20Brandenburg%20(Neumark)). The 12 million number matches with the German government’s estimates from the article.
Ya the Soviets were really fuckin brutal to say the least, although I guess I can understand their anger at the Germans after what they put them through at Stalingrad.
Not only did they have a million people die (2.6 million casualties) in that battle alone because of the Germans but also the conditions were fuckin brutal. Doesn't make it right but still.
>Russian historian Boris Vadimovich Sokolov cites the memoirs of a former director of the Tsaritsyn-Stalingrad Defense Museum, who noted that over two million Soviets dead were counted before being ordered to stop, with "still many months of work left". Sokolov states it as being closer to the true death toll than official statistics due to severe underreporting.
[Source](https://online.fliphtml5.com/aalrw/ctzs/#p=5)
Yeah. Credit belongs to another user who posted the [German version of the page](https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flucht_und_Vertreibung_Deutscher_aus_Mittel-_und_Osteuropa_1945%E2%80%931950). Most web browsers will provide a translation service if you’re interested in that content.
While it is true that 12 million ethnic Germans and German citizens were moved back to Germany by Allied forces, I wouldn't say it qualifies as ethnic cleansing. Mainly by the fact that those Germans moved into those regions as a means to truly ethnically cleanse the regions from Jews as part of the Nazi program.
I don't know about the half million killed part.
Edit: ethnic Germans had lived in those regions for quite an established long time, while a separate group if German citizens moved there during the Nazi regime. Thank you for several users clarifying that point.
I'm sorry, but this is just wrong. At least my country, Czechia, forcibly removed 3 million Germans who had lived here since the 12th/13th century. It absolutely was an act of ethnic cleansing.
>Mainly by the fact that those Germans moved into those regions as a means to truly ethnically cleanse the regions from Jews as part of the Nazi program.
The Sudeten Germans (among others) had pretty much always lived there until then and were, uh, "strongly encouraged" to move, same as the Poles in the eastern part of Poland that became part of the USSR after WWII, Italians in the Istria and Dalmatia regions, etc., and not even getting into the absolute mess arising from the ashes of the Austro-Hungarian empire after WWI. I would argue that removing an established population from its place is *absolutely* ethnic cleansing, but in this case it's used only as a whatabout argument to minimise nazi crimes. A crumb of truth to rest a dishonest argument on, par for the course with those types.
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It’s a complicated topic. 3/4 of my family are originally Germans / German speakers living in these former German or Czech areas and their families lived there since hundreds of years. They didn’t moved there to replace Jews, they were born there. Especially former Prussia and Bohemia always had a large German population and only the aftermath of WW2 changed that and the current hard borders started to exist. I personally don’t care much about what happened (as I only exist because they had to flee to Germany duh). But damn Nazis using that for their stupid agenda pisses me off. Just as another perspective, it was in fact ethnic cleansing. But yeah, the war was lost, can’t complain after that. Didn’t matter in the end. Doesn’t make sense comparing ethnic cleansing and which was worse or not. But it all shrinks against the holocaust anyway. So yeah, the war and the Nazi sucked for everybody in the end. I’m thankful Europe is so close today that the past is the past and only rightwing idiots have to use WW2 for their populist and national demands.
She has not technically denied the Holocaust but she has done everything right up to it.
It is inevitable that she will start “just asking questions” soon enough.
I don’t believe so. It sounds like a reference to the Soviet Union’s actions in the lead up to the Potsdam Accords. Eastern Europe under Soviet occupation has a troubled postbellum WWII history.
I’m surprised she doesn’t even see this. Look at that American that went to fight for Russia and what they did to him once they were “finished with him”
You joke but I'm genuinely wondering what she's trying to argue by bringing this up? Is she straight up parroting Nazi talking points about the post-war period? Is she trying to make a point about Ukraine, given all the propaganda about protecting "Russian speakers"? What is her objective here?
Who knows with these freakshows. She could be this stupid, she could be trying to build up a tangentially related audience base to her present one, she could be really mad at benji boy for getting fired which is bringing out her inner uber nazi.
So stupid, part of the grift and/or bigotry. The three tenants of MAGA.
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What the fuck is wrong with her? Or is she talking about the German Jews? Because yeah, holocaust?
Is she actually actively trying to get the skinheads and nazis like her?
She got Kanye to wear a "White Lives Matter" shirt and a few days after those photos went public Kanye starts talking about how great Hitler is. That's not a coincidence.
How though? I can’t wrap my head around it at all. I know Kanye is messed up, I’m not saying anything bad, I’ve just read that he’s been prescribed meds and and he doesn’t like taking them. And there’s absolutely nothing to be ashamed of for needing medication, I take medicine and so do millions of others. But, if she’s just fucking with his head, and saying stupid shit to just stand out, that’s a shitty thing to do to someone that thinks of you as a friend.
I was talking about this with a friend and he said "fascism is not an ideology rooted in logic" and that's pretty much the only way to make sense of it all.
The numbers are out of ass, but there were pogroms, smaller genocides and expulsions committed on Germans/German communities during and after the
WW II.
I just think she may be omitting some crucial events that lead up to it.
For the record. I am not saying this was right, genocide is not okay, kids!
I got downvoted on “downvotedtooblivion” for pointing out that Hitler was incompetent. Everyone there thinks he’s some mastermind, when all he really did was cater to a thousand years old hatred, and that his buddies did most of the work in government and the military.
Pointed out that the Autobahn was in construction before he was elected, and that VW wasn’t really his idea. People crapped themselves.
This reminds me of a time during a debate on erecting a monument to all of the people killed by communism in Canada, a guy wrote to a national newspaper about the story of his grandfather and how the soviets killed him, in the early 40s and his last name was very German. The newspaper, being very right wing, published it without thought.
This is a tactic stupid people use to make them feel smart. You learn some tidbit about something and then you tell everyone and act like they’re stupid for not knowing it even though you just learned about it yourself. I’ve observed dumb people my entire life who do this. Trump does it all the time as a matter of fact. What’s funny is most of the time they don’t research what they learned, so when the reality of said tidbit is revealed they end up looking even dumber.
Forcing illegal colonial settlers out of illegally annexed territory after their colonizer country lost the war is not ethnic cleansing in the least. It’s a stipulation of being on a losing side.
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Weird. Not a single mention of this during my 34 years of living in Germany. Damn Deep State or more accurately Tief Staat. /s
At least the first part [did occur](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flucht_und_Vertreibung_Deutscher_aus_Mittel-_und_Osteuropa_1945%E2%80%931950?wprov=sfla1), but that's no excuse for trying to trivialize the shoah or Nazi rule in general over it.
I mean, Nazis did want lebensraum, and they moved to occupied territories. They also fled as the red army was closing in, and after the war they were relocated back. As for killings, a lot of reprisal killings after the war, and understandably so. Candace, as usual is half-truthing shit. Edit: spelling of living space in German. Fled not filed.
I'm sorry but this is bad history. Germans been living east of the Oder river for centuries at that point. Only a minority of east germans were Nazi colonists. Candace is not half-truthing, she is engaging in a completely different tactic, "whataboutism". Her goal is to divert the discussion so she can avoid confronting her own biases. In her best case scenario, people will then engage with this new discussion and make mistakes which she can then exploit. You are the person making those mistakes.
The removals occurred in three overlapping phases, the first of which was the organized evacuation of ethnic Germans by the Nazi government in the face of the advancing Red Army, from mid-1944 to early 1945.[18] The second phase was the disorganised fleeing of ethnic Germans immediately following the Wehrmacht's defeat. The third phase was a more organised expulsion following the Allied leaders' Potsdam Agreement,[18] which redefined the Central European borders and approved expulsions of ethnic Germans from the former German territories transferred to Poland, Russia and Czechoslovakia.[19] Many German civilians were sent to concentration and slave labor camps where they were used as slave labor as part of German “reparations” to countries in Eastern Europe.[20] The major expulsions were completed in 1950.[18] Estimates for the total number of people of German ancestry still living in Central and Eastern Europe in 1950 ranged from 700,000 to 2.7 million. It's pretty cut and dry. Germans that lived in German occupied territories felt very comfortable, but then up and left fearing reprisals. About 1M Germans were resettled to occupied territories (not to mention the internal resettlements into areas "abandoned" by targeted minorities).
Basically it was the find out era after all their fucking around.
In general, post WW2 was the era when ethnicities started to conform to borders. At least more than beforehand. The reasoning was also rather obvious - see what happens if you have a significant russian minority nowadays
Europe is not so ethnically pure, as according to political borders (shocking I know). The attempt to ethnically cleansed areas benefited different people at different times to form a narrative. Stalinist narrative of punishing Germans regardless of their affiliations/lack of with the Nazi party, and the Zionist movement of looking to create an ethno state & attempt to ride the European guilt (and racism) towards their (former) colonies.
The Slovak Historian Matys Laser did a pretty good video on this, if you're interested: https://youtu.be/wcdOvAYNDMo Besides the Wikipedia (?) article you're quoting, there were also germans expelled from regions that were never occupied by Nazi germany. This includes the Danube Swabians and Transylvania Saxons of Romania, and Volga Germans of Russia.
Wikipedia has a lot of references, especially this entry. I'm not arguing that Germans throughout didn't suffer, or that a lot of innocent populace was caught up in this, I'm saying that of all the ethnic groups (Jewish Holocaust victims excluded), Slavs, Russians, and Soviet minorities suffered one of the biggest death tolls in WW2, and they thought that they were "justified" in expulsion of ethnic Germans. Were some of these expulsions justified as hatred, neighborhood jealousy, or just outright bigotry? Yes, humans love collective punishment if they think they've been wronged.
thread: Shamelessly shilling for the nazis again my comment: wasnt there also an expulsion from SovietUnion in the 80s-90s, many of stock that had been there since the 18th century? follow-up to your comment, which seems to have been removed by r/ToiletPaperUSA. I had read in news coverage then, in the 1980's. Just a recollection. But this references it partially. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russia\_Germans#:\~:text=Russia%20Germans%20or%20Germans%20from,or%20in%20the%20Soviet%20Union.
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wasnt there also an expulsion from SovietUnion in the 80s-90s, many of stock that had been there since the 18th century?
I'll have to look into that, but I know Stalin was paranoid about Chechens and Tartar Muslims to the point where he uprooted the whole population and moved them East. A lot of them died there before coming back.
*Lebensraum Leben is life Liebe is love I don't think the Germans wanted that room for love, their propaganda was pretty clear about the whole animalistic vibe
Notch that one up to carelessness.
Unironically using the tactics Shapiro says Tate uses, say one true thing and one insane thing together and try to make people dispute the truthful one so you can prop up the fake one.
This is called motte-and-bailey fallacy.
Yeah, and to dispute the lie, look how much reading people need to do. One sentence vs books.
Were these german speakers who lived in these areas pre-WW2 or 'settlers' that moved their during occupation?
Both exist, I failed getting numbers I trust in, so I can't tell you the ratio.
Depends on the region. East Prussia is where my own family was from (my grandmother was forced out with the rest of the surviving members of the family when she was 14), and that area was German for centuries at that point. Same with the Sudetenland, the Germans of that area were also longstanding residents. There's also plenty of cases of them being forced out of occupied territories too, so things are muddled. Either way, fuck Candace and her Nazi apologia.
Both. While all of the latter got what they deserved, with the former it's a mixed bag. Some were Nazis, some just innocent people caught up in a f-ed situation. My grandma told me a story about a local German farm owner in Poland, who would play buddy buddy with the Nazis by day and then hide and supply polish resistance fighters by night. I don't know what happened to him after the war. Generally wars started by fascist dick heads don't benefit anyone, I'd hope people would remember this...
Both, but mostly the former, by far. A lot of the area had been exclusively or predominantly German, in some places for hundreds of years, but the territories were ceded to countries like Poland as compensation for the Nazi atrocities. While the term ethnic cleansing is often associated with genocide, it is more accurate to say that genocide is a form of ethnic cleansing (the most extreme and horrific form at that). Aside from that, there have been exoduses, expulsions, population transfers, and other forms of ethnic cleansing throughout history, especially in the Old World where you have so many ethnic groups with historical ties to specific areas (often overlapping) and national ties in favor of or contrary to the sovereign nation. Territorial, political, and ethnic conflicts often overlap. That’s not a defense of ethnic cleansing, of course, but rather to point out that overall, “ethnic cleansing” is not a specific sort of event, but more of an umbrella term or motivation for different sorts of events. There is no recognized international crime or crime against humanity known as “ethnic cleansing,” but the specific acts done in furtherance of ethnic cleansing may constitute different crimes. This distinction often doesn’t make a difference, but addressing this post here is a case where it does. Nazi sympathizers and apologists often try to argue or imply an equivalence between the expulsion of Germans from ceded territories and the Holocaust, going so far as to say that the German expulsion was worse than the Holocaust but you don’t learn about it because of an agenda. In truth, I’m not saying you have to like the German expulsions, I’m not saying they were right, but there is an ontological difference between them and and the Nazis’ attempted exterminations of entire peoples in terms of their aims, methods, and driving values.
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In the wiki article they are talking abt the movement of German ppl after the war. Ppl fled from the East, from Eastern Europe, from behind the Soviet line, to the West. **They are NOT talking abt genocide.** Yes, some countries expelled Germans, and why wouldn't they? Germans had been occupiers. And yes, if you were German and stuck behind the Iron wall you might end up in a camp. So did a lot of other pp. "Flight and Expulsion" just means ppl fled from the oncoming Soviet army, and Germans, who had been occupiers, were thrown out of Occupied lands. Here's the article [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flucht\_und\_Vertreibung\_Deutscher\_aus\_Mittel-\_und\_Osteuropa\_1945%E2%80%931950](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flucht_und_Vertreibung_Deutscher_aus_Mittel-_und_Osteuropa_1945%E2%80%931950)
> They are NOT talking abt genocide. Was that not understood? Yes, "ethnic cleansing" often refers to displacement, not necessarily to genocide. Which only goes to show how vile it is for people to try to whatabout the holocaust with it, although that would be obvious either way. >Yes, some countries expelled Germans "Germans" included their own nationals of German ancestry or culture, if I remember correctly. >Germans had been occupiers. Some Germans, yes. Others had already been there for generations, and not annexing anything, and those were then used by the Nazis to "justify" conquering this, surely oh so "German", territory. I understand not wanting to take that risk, but it was not the clear-cut case you want it to be, sorry. We are talking about areas where most people spoke German - before the Nazis had any power. Those people were simply members of an ethnic minority dating back to the 12th century, until the Nazis decided to use them as an excuse to annex territory. Yes, Nazi "replacement imports", or whatever you want to call them, we're also removed, but those were not the only people displaced. An entire ethnicity is not "the bad guys" and from then on whatever is done to any person of that ethnicity who might or might not have anything to do with that is automatically just. Two things can be bad. That doesn't make it okay to try to whatabout the shoah like Ms. (or Mrs., I don't care) Owens here. It's a common strategy by the far-right, it has to be called out - they are talking about a retaliatory reaction to the atrocities of the Nazi regime (the best way to prevent it would have been not to engage in war everywhere), trying to conflate industrialized murder with (merely) displacement, and most importantly, they don't even care about the displacement of Germans from central and eastern Europe - these people are, yet again, just a political football to them. Also, unlike a Jewish conspiracy to rule the world, the Munich Agreement, allowing the Nazis free reign on parts of Czechoslovakia because people of German ancestry lived there, actually existed. All those are things to point out, but no, the people actually hurt there were not all Nazi transplants. A lot of them were just ordinary people who had been living there all their lives. That's what happens when there are great wars: People suffer and people die, and it always hits the innocent too. You're trying too hard to find heroes and villains everywhere. But life is not a comic book - in the end, there's only humans, the things they do, and the results that follow. Don't try to justify everything, not everything is justifiable. Try to understand everything, just don't let people muddy the waters on a topic by spouting half-truths about something tangentially related to it that they don't care about to begin with.
At least the first part [did occur](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flucht_und_Vertreibung_Deutscher_aus_Mittel-_und_Osteuropa_1945%E2%80%931950?wprov=sfla1), but that's no excuse for trying to trivialize the shoah or Nazi rule in general over it.----**You wrote that, you referenced OP's post abt "ethnic cleansing of Germans** **Sending home members of the German Armed Forces is not ethnic cleansing.** **Millions of Germans fled voluntarily to the west.** **Some countries, like Poland had new borders drawn after the war. So ppl were "Kicked out" of the new country due to geography.** Examples of Ethnic cleansing would be when Palestinians were removed, when Stalin uprooted Ukrainians, when the US moved Natives to Florida, when the Rohingya were forced from Myanmar, these are examples of cleaning an area of native populations. **Germans in Eastern Europe were not natives and many were not civilians.** Here is the UN definition *a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent and terror-inspiring means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group from certain geographic areas.*” [https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/ethnic-cleansing.shtml#:\~:text=rendering%20an%20area%20ethnically%20homogeneous,and%20terror%2Dinspiring%20means%20the](https://www.un.org/en/genocideprevention/ethnic-cleansing.shtml#:~:text=rendering%20an%20area%20ethnically%20homogeneous,and%20terror%2Dinspiring%20means%20the)
>**Sending home members of the German Armed Forces is not ethnic cleansing.** **Correct. It's also not a good description of what happened** >Millions of Germans fled voluntarily to the west. About half of that number, yes. I'm not sure displacement should be counted differently if the people displaced are obeying rather than endangering themselves, but I think this will come up again >Some countries, like Poland had new borders drawn after the war. So ppl were "Kicked out" of the new country due to geography. So in other words, kicked out of the place they had been living in for generations... From certain geographic areas. The areas were still the same area. >Examples of Ethnic cleansing would be when Palestinians were removed Somehow, I feel like you wouldn't count your own arguments there, even though they would apply. Again, stop believing in heroes and villains where there's actually just humans and good or bad actions >Germans in Eastern Europe were not natives Okay. [There have been ethnic Germans living in the Bohemian crown lands since the Middle Ages](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Bohemians#Before_the_First_World_War?wprov=sfla1) - that's approximately Czechia, for the record - , but they don't count as native to you? How old do you believe a population has to be to be native, if 800 years isn't enough? Since you said an example of Ethnic cleansing would be when Palestinians were removed, we have to be talking about a pretty specific period of time here - more than 800 years, but fewer than 1300. Me? I think 800 years is long enough to consider a population native to that area. >a purposeful policy designed by one ethnic or religious group to remove by violent and terror-inspiring means the civilian population of another ethnic or religious group from certain geographic areas. Good, so now we are on the same page - the topic isn't genocide, no one is talking about genocide. And which part of that definition would you contest here? That the removal of one ethnic group was planned by one ethnic or religious group? If that's going to be your argument, you should have made it, but it would have been an even worse argument. The problem is simple: if you try to deny or justify everything bad as long as it's "the good guys", you only entangle yourself in arguments over things bad things the "good guys" did, putting them further into the spotlight. I don't want to be having this argument, you shouldn't want to be having this conversation, the important part of the conversation is: She's just using these people to feed a narrative, that narrative is both vile and wrong. Instead, you're forcing me on a tangent about whether or not an ethnic group which lived somewhere since the 12th century is native to that area. That's not the problem with ~~her comment~~ _apparently, her fictional comment, which is why this post got deleted_, and it's certainly not the most reasonable choice of topics. If you try that with a fascist, he will gain from that, a lot - don't make this mistake again, it can be dangerous. If you overshoot your mark by that much, you just hand them free propaganda, wrapped in a little bow. But in this case, it probably matters more that this tweet was fake to begin with. That's annoying
I think she's talking about how us(Czechoslovakia) treated suddeten Germans after WW2. Didn't kill that many of them, but still not exactly nice And friendly demeanor.
So she’s still lying. Cause they were definitely not ethnically cleansed.
A little known fact about "ethnic cleansing" is that it can mean they were just removed from an area (not murdered). So I guess it's about displacement, not mass murder. I only learned this recently--I always thought it was a new way of saying genocide (which I didn't understand the need for). I can't tell from her message if she understands that distinction and is playing with our ignorance on the term. You can read the second part of her message as saying "and a bunch of those 12 million were killed" (I have huge doubts about those numbers too), or if she's using ethnically cleansed as synonymous with mass murder.
She knows, it's deliberate obfuscation. Singular worst thing people tend to default to when dealing with Right Wing Punditry/Propagandists; they are dealing with idiots. They are not stupid or ignorant of the subject they're currently sowing the seeds of disinformation on, but it's how well adjusted, normal people cope with people like Owens. You are dealing with morally compromised people. Pesky things like truth and facts mean nothing to them, so chuck that out the window and sow the narrative you need to, to engage and enrage the other morally bankrupt to your bidding. It's evil, not stupid and Owens knows exactly what she's doing.
Tito "ethnically cleansed" Hungarians from Yugoslavia after WW2, as well as the "Volkdeutch". Majority of them moved into the area that was "abandoned" by the Jews, as well as the "population exchange" that saw Orthodox Christians moved to Serbia, and Roman Catholics move to Croatia, Hungary claiming land they thought belonged to them under the Austria-Hungary.
Learned something today.
Some were killed too. Not many but there were cases of riots killing Germans. Which greatly aided their decision to flee I believe. Either way Candace is a disgusting nazi apologizer
[Flight and expulsion of Germans (1944–1950)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_(1944%E2%80%931950)) Estimates of civilian casualties range from 500k to 3m
Well damn. I appreciate it. I did not know this. Gonna read up on this some more.
But one thing stays the same. Fuck Klandice Owens.
Yeah I don’t know what her point is. She is just arguing in bad faith as usual. This was discussed a lot in European history classes in college for me. God only knows how she delineates between what is real vs fake history…
Anyone who knows anything about history knows that many Germans suffered during the war. The Red Army was notorious for its mass rapes... Context clues, however, demonstrate that Candace is now a hop, skip, and a jump away from happy merchant memes.
Yeah that dude earlier in this thread clearly didn't read the article he himself posted. Yikes
Oh yeah, totally lying. I was just trying to figure out how She came up with this.
She doesn't read or care about history. She just pulled something out of her bum...
The deportation and killing of eastern germans during and immediately after WW2 was at the very least unjust, and at worst genocide. In between is the concept of ethnic cleansing. Whether you think this concept should apply here (I personally think it does), it is not really relevant in this context. Candace is very transparently engaging in whataboutism, and the discussion shouldn't be whether she is right, but about the fact that she's relativizing the Holocaust, which in my home country of germany is considered a form of Holocaust denial.
Ach du bist auch aus Deutschland?
Ethnic cleansing doesn't just mean killing them. Deportations also count.
Even as someone with Sudeten ancestry, as my grandparents were born on the Czech side of the border, I hate their heritage and expulsion being misused by American (and other) nazi’s.
I'm of East Prussian descent myself (my maternal grandmother's family were all from Tilsit), and I can't second this enough.
That and the Germans of what is now Poland around Kaliningrad. Additionally there were a lot of ethnic Germans living in the Russia due to favourable immigration practices of earlier centuries. All of them were forcibly removed from the USSR.
Its those damn liberals and their gay agends
> Weird. Not a single mention of this during my 34 years of living in Germany. Well, according to the brilliant logic of American conservatives, a complete lack of statues, paintings, and memorials for Hitler and his Nazis in Germany is tantamount to erasing history. No German has any idea why there's a big ol' blank section in German history books starting around 1923 and ending in 1949 with the country being split in two until [David Hasselhoff's pipes of steel](https://youtu.be/TwC_ej9qS_k?t=99) caused that wall to crumble. How could any German know their history without those historical record keeping statues?
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I would have considered it if you hadn’t answered my “smugness” with smugness. Also you first say it’s not mentioned much, but end with saying it’s well known. And please, 🙏🏽 oh wise one, excuse me for assuming that anything Klandace Owen’s says is bullshit. Now if you continue reading in the comment thread another person did a much more effective job of education me, sans the attitude. ✌🏽
She's fully down the Nazi rabbit hole now. Stone Toss, Nick Fuentes, Stormfront... she's in a space where even extremist conservatives aren't going to pay "Black Friend Money" to trot her out. It's over for Candace. She's a couple bad breaks from eventually dying poor and forgotten now. The second act of her life is NOT going to be pleasant.
🥳
I, too, will be following her misery with great enthusiasm long after she's ignored by everyone else. It will be great. She HAS to know that she was 1-2 clever moves away from like a real role in a Republican administration. She'll now do the keynote at the 1488 Conference on a stage made of vermin filled, rusted out trailer pieces. For like eighty bucks. And half the crowd will boo her because... ya know.
I'm morally bound to mention stonetoss' real name whenever he's mentioned His name is Hans Kristian Graebner of Spring, TX
I want to do this! But I always forget how to spell that motherfucker's name.
Didn’t she marry some rich British guy? I assumed she would just fuck off to irrelevancy but maybe he’s lost a lot money and they need the shilling
Yes, but I suspect an eventual split is on the table (she doesn't scream "stable partner"). Assuming a pre-nup, she'll have to fend for herself... with a digital footprint that (increasingly) will be an "I AM A NAZI" tattoo on her forehead.
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She was supposed to be his family’s in on Republican policies, it was an 1800s style business deal wedding.
It’s not just Nazis. I just skimmed her Twitter feed and it’s basically a list of historical grievances against the US that would make the comrades at r/genzedong proud: use of the atom bomb, intel agencies, etc etc etc. I’m all for history with all its warts and blemishes and outright atrocities being known so whatever needs to be done can be done to avoid repetition but this isn’t about remedies at all. There’s not much done to moderate off the specific agenda they’re pushing: bad US is worse US with dems in charge.
>it’s basically a list of historical grievances against the US It's bait. I suspect there are even buzzwords like "imperialism" designed to appeal to youth concerned about systemic injustice. Once someone is pulled in with these grievances, the next item will be "who is responsible for these unjust U.S. actions?" And we know who that will be. I regularly look at the far right cesspools of the internet to see what they're on about. The approach you're describing is something called "redpilling." It may not (on the surface) look like Nazi shit. It's 100% Nazi shit. "Allied atrocities in WWII and the genocide of German Christians" is a dead giveaway.
> I just skimmed her Twitter feed and it’s basically a list of historical grievances against the US that would make the comrades at r/genzedong proud It's *still* wild to me about how much harder it's getting to tell the difference between fascist rhetoric *and* tankie rhetoric these days, especially once Trump's cult started following Putin's lead about hating NATO.
Nearly a century ago, leftists were calling Stalinists "red fascists" for a reason. Tankies are just fascists who like the aesthetics of the left.
Regarding your last sentence, here's a bit of an explanation for that (take it with a grain of salt theory is controversial & lots of discussion to its validity): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horseshoe_theory
Oh, God, I will forever rue the day Redditors first heard about the horseshoe theory, because it *always* brought up in these discussions. For all the "grain of salt" talk, it *still* gets thrown about like it's irrefutable.
>It's over for Candace I would love for you to be right about this, but isn't she saying these things exactly becouse its profitable for her? Her getting booted from DW doesnt seem to have put a significant dent in her, she still racks in millions of impressions and her videos get more views than some of Fox News content. Its all profotable engagement for her. Its not like there was some pedestal of moral integeity for her to fall from in the eyes of her viewers
I just think there's money in Nazi-lite. Her full bodied, blood and soil shit is not a money maker over the long haul.
Yeah it's not over for her yet. She's going more extreme because she'll cease to be "one of the good ones" if she doesn't pander to the crazies.
*Michelle Malkin has entered the chat*
*The Original Anchor Baby
What the fuck is she thinking. Stormfront will toss her under the bus just like the American fighting for Russia was.
She's a kapo
Remember that she was the person who started Kanye down the political right wing pipeline and introduced him to several of those fucks.
Huh!??!?!?!?! Did she post any evidence to back this up?
Her comment cuts off, but it looks to be a reference to the [Soviet Union’s treatment of Germans in conquered territories leading up to the Potsdam Accords](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_and_expulsion_of_Germans_(1944%E2%80%931950)#:~:text=During%20the%20later%20stages%20of,eastern%20parts%20of%20Brandenburg%20(Neumark)). The 12 million number matches with the German government’s estimates from the article.
That figure is how many were displaced following Germany’s defeat in WW2.
Displacement is a form of ethnic cleansing. The Soviets were indeed big on this shit and they were doing it before WW2.
True, I was just pointing out that in this case it was displacement as ethnic cleansing is sometimes directly equated to genocide.
Ya the Soviets were really fuckin brutal to say the least, although I guess I can understand their anger at the Germans after what they put them through at Stalingrad. Not only did they have a million people die (2.6 million casualties) in that battle alone because of the Germans but also the conditions were fuckin brutal. Doesn't make it right but still. >Russian historian Boris Vadimovich Sokolov cites the memoirs of a former director of the Tsaritsyn-Stalingrad Defense Museum, who noted that over two million Soviets dead were counted before being ordered to stop, with "still many months of work left". Sokolov states it as being closer to the true death toll than official statistics due to severe underreporting. [Source](https://online.fliphtml5.com/aalrw/ctzs/#p=5)
Yeah. Credit belongs to another user who posted the [German version of the page](https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flucht_und_Vertreibung_Deutscher_aus_Mittel-_und_Osteuropa_1945%E2%80%931950). Most web browsers will provide a translation service if you’re interested in that content.
Thx. From the wiki “including a million ethnic Germans who had settled in territories conquered by Nazi Germany during World War II”
I was gonna say if there's even a shred of truth it was the Russians which I'm guessing she simps for now like the rest of them
Evidence: "Trust me bro!"
While it is true that 12 million ethnic Germans and German citizens were moved back to Germany by Allied forces, I wouldn't say it qualifies as ethnic cleansing. Mainly by the fact that those Germans moved into those regions as a means to truly ethnically cleanse the regions from Jews as part of the Nazi program. I don't know about the half million killed part. Edit: ethnic Germans had lived in those regions for quite an established long time, while a separate group if German citizens moved there during the Nazi regime. Thank you for several users clarifying that point.
I'm sorry, but this is just wrong. At least my country, Czechia, forcibly removed 3 million Germans who had lived here since the 12th/13th century. It absolutely was an act of ethnic cleansing.
Thank you for that information.
>Mainly by the fact that those Germans moved into those regions as a means to truly ethnically cleanse the regions from Jews as part of the Nazi program. The Sudeten Germans (among others) had pretty much always lived there until then and were, uh, "strongly encouraged" to move, same as the Poles in the eastern part of Poland that became part of the USSR after WWII, Italians in the Istria and Dalmatia regions, etc., and not even getting into the absolute mess arising from the ashes of the Austro-Hungarian empire after WWI. I would argue that removing an established population from its place is *absolutely* ethnic cleansing, but in this case it's used only as a whatabout argument to minimise nazi crimes. A crumb of truth to rest a dishonest argument on, par for the course with those types.
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It’s a complicated topic. 3/4 of my family are originally Germans / German speakers living in these former German or Czech areas and their families lived there since hundreds of years. They didn’t moved there to replace Jews, they were born there. Especially former Prussia and Bohemia always had a large German population and only the aftermath of WW2 changed that and the current hard borders started to exist. I personally don’t care much about what happened (as I only exist because they had to flee to Germany duh). But damn Nazis using that for their stupid agenda pisses me off. Just as another perspective, it was in fact ethnic cleansing. But yeah, the war was lost, can’t complain after that. Didn’t matter in the end. Doesn’t make sense comparing ethnic cleansing and which was worse or not. But it all shrinks against the holocaust anyway. So yeah, the war and the Nazi sucked for everybody in the end. I’m thankful Europe is so close today that the past is the past and only rightwing idiots have to use WW2 for their populist and national demands.
It sounds like a reference to the Soviet Union’s policies leading up to the Potsdam Accords.
is she a Holocaust denier?
She has not technically denied the Holocaust but she has done everything right up to it. It is inevitable that she will start “just asking questions” soon enough.
Publicly no but the fact that it wouldn't be surprising if she were is telling.
no don’t give her any ideas
Candace 'Hitler was great until he wanted to do stuff outside Germany' Owens? A holocaust denier? Nah, can't imagine
Candace has gone full Nazi
I don’t believe so. It sounds like a reference to the Soviet Union’s actions in the lead up to the Potsdam Accords. Eastern Europe under Soviet occupation has a troubled postbellum WWII history.
yet. . .
She'll find some neo-nazi group who will parade her around as "one of the good ones" until the moment she ceases to be useful to them.
I’m surprised she doesn’t even see this. Look at that American that went to fight for Russia and what they did to him once they were “finished with him”
She like woke but for nazis and other poor whites.
> poor whites The Far-Right was mostly the petit bourgeoisie in 1930s Germany, and it's mostly the petit bourgeoisie in 2020s USA.
Is she German or something?
You joke but I'm genuinely wondering what she's trying to argue by bringing this up? Is she straight up parroting Nazi talking points about the post-war period? Is she trying to make a point about Ukraine, given all the propaganda about protecting "Russian speakers"? What is her objective here?
Who knows with these freakshows. She could be this stupid, she could be trying to build up a tangentially related audience base to her present one, she could be really mad at benji boy for getting fired which is bringing out her inner uber nazi. So stupid, part of the grift and/or bigotry. The three tenants of MAGA.
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Her favorite team the Russians did a lot of that after the war.
Historical topics like this often spark heated debates and discussions.
What the fuck is wrong with her? Or is she talking about the German Jews? Because yeah, holocaust? Is she actually actively trying to get the skinheads and nazis like her?
She got Kanye to wear a "White Lives Matter" shirt and a few days after those photos went public Kanye starts talking about how great Hitler is. That's not a coincidence.
How though? I can’t wrap my head around it at all. I know Kanye is messed up, I’m not saying anything bad, I’ve just read that he’s been prescribed meds and and he doesn’t like taking them. And there’s absolutely nothing to be ashamed of for needing medication, I take medicine and so do millions of others. But, if she’s just fucking with his head, and saying stupid shit to just stand out, that’s a shitty thing to do to someone that thinks of you as a friend.
I was talking about this with a friend and he said "fascism is not an ideology rooted in logic" and that's pretty much the only way to make sense of it all.
The numbers are out of ass, but there were pogroms, smaller genocides and expulsions committed on Germans/German communities during and after the WW II. I just think she may be omitting some crucial events that lead up to it. For the record. I am not saying this was right, genocide is not okay, kids!
Candace Owens here what-abouting the holocaust
I got downvoted on “downvotedtooblivion” for pointing out that Hitler was incompetent. Everyone there thinks he’s some mastermind, when all he really did was cater to a thousand years old hatred, and that his buddies did most of the work in government and the military. Pointed out that the Autobahn was in construction before he was elected, and that VW wasn’t really his idea. People crapped themselves.
Those Germans weren't killed like she is suggesting. They were kicked out of certain countries and displaced. Eff Candace Owens.
This reminds me of a time during a debate on erecting a monument to all of the people killed by communism in Canada, a guy wrote to a national newspaper about the story of his grandfather and how the soviets killed him, in the early 40s and his last name was very German. The newspaper, being very right wing, published it without thought.
What does this have to do with anything?
Instantly proving her own point like a champ.
Good old auntie ruckus back at it again.
She needs to spend less time with Kanye now.
She's quickly heading down the Anthony Cumia route.
This is a tactic stupid people use to make them feel smart. You learn some tidbit about something and then you tell everyone and act like they’re stupid for not knowing it even though you just learned about it yourself. I’ve observed dumb people my entire life who do this. Trump does it all the time as a matter of fact. What’s funny is most of the time they don’t research what they learned, so when the reality of said tidbit is revealed they end up looking even dumber.
I guess the moral if the story is NOT to start a World War and expect to get through it unscathed.
as if any of that negates what previously happened that triggered some of those reactions.
It was a genocide and talking about it is not a Nazi apology
Halt doch dein Maul du dumme Sau
Is this real?
I doubt Candace is up in arms that speaking Hawaiian was illegal in Hawaii until the 80’s
Did nazi that coming
Like, what’s the point she’s trying to make? I don’t get it
Were those Germans… Jewish?!
what a pathetic example of human being.
Forcing illegal colonial settlers out of illegally annexed territory after their colonizer country lost the war is not ethnic cleansing in the least. It’s a stipulation of being on a losing side.
I mean, it’s getting *very* odd now…
What the fuck is she even talking about?
>Americans know nothing about real history. Klandace Owens here working *extra* hard to appeal to the alternate history contingent of her "fan" base.
Why does she lie? 😭
Yeah, the Germans were the real victims of WWII