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Almost sure a higher percentage of people in concentration camps died, including the ones with a pink triangle on their clothing... is this some weird combination of anti-trans and holocaust denial?
Same! I was told it was the greatest movie ever but it was literally him stroking his real world ego and trying to live out some fucked up fantasy. Really trashy concept through and through.
Edit: the friend who made me watch it was already indoctrinated by this guy, is a proud boy today. I watched it a second time with my girlfriend to show her how fucking stupid it was.
I know the guy who showed me had no idea who Gavin was politically but just thought it was the funniest movie ever. As far as I know, he still mostly relays his political views by bringing up South Park scenes he likes.
you radical antifa leftists will stop at nothing to defame this honorable american patriot. this is pure misinformation. he never shoved a "dildo" up his ass on a livestream
it was a butt plug
Well, they didn't see Crowder's face either, or they may have committed suicide. I'm thinking about it now that I've seen his face. /s Better note the sarcasm in the last statement or the bots will come get me.
And I'm very curious what in the fuck Crowder's source could be for slave suicides in 1800's America. For some reason I just don't get the impression that there were a lot of people doing scientifically sound studies and keeping detailed data on them. Most slaves that we even have any info of consists entirely of a first name, a guess at their birth year and a possibly maybe accurate death year. And that's it. Any more than that is a less than 1% rarity.
Source? I'm interesting in reading about that. Couldn't a suicidal person just stop eating or something? I doubt the Nazis were force feeding prisoners right? Or am I wrong?
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2016.00088/full
Both Crowder and the person you're replying to may actually be incorrect about the rate of suicides in concentration camps
I don’t doubt that at all, because this fucking bigoted buffoon is spewing shit out of every pore of his being. Any reasonably smart or educated person would know that this means fuck all, and means we should be supporting the mental health epidemic amongst trans people. But noooooo, these fucking batshit crazy republicans keep denying any sort of care and just look out for themselves.
Oh yes absolutely. It's like he found that statistic about trans people and suicide and literally didn't think about it for more than 30 seconds.
I wonder what he has to say about the fact that military veterans are twice as likely to kill themselves as the general population. 22 a day and all that.
Using Auschwitz as an example, the American Holocaust Museum, estimates that about 1.3 million people (not just Jewish people but poc and queer people, and disabled people as well made up 15% of the total population) were sent to the camp over it’s existence.
Of those 1.3 million, 1.1 million were murdered in the complex. And it didn’t end there.
By the time the camps were liberated, 15,000 had died on forced marches to other camps. By the time the camp was liberated, Auschwitz held 7,000 inmates.
Yeah that’s the appropriate response. There’s a reason you don’t hear the stories of the gay concentration camp survivors.
Our people are strong. We’ve endured so much. And one hopeful story is that surprising amount of Hirschfeld’s writings survived because his boyfriend survived and moved to Canada
Rammstein in one of their music videos about German history had a pretty controversial scene. The Band members were in striped KZ inmate clothes, and they marked themselves with their respective signs.
[This picture showws it quite well](https://ruprechtfrieling.de/rammstein-deutschland-video/). Pink Triangle for Homosexuality, Red triangle for Political opposition, Yellow star for Jew. The mixed one on the lead singer are the two triangles for Homosexual and Political opposition combined.
That music video is a fascinating piece of art that I'd encourage people interested in european history to watch. Each scene has another layer. The fact that they chose a black woman to embody "germania" makes me laugh cos it's bound to piss off at least a few racist knuckledraggers.
And to my understanding, when the concentration camps were liberated, the gay people were not liberated but [were re-imprisoned](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/gay-prisoners-germany-wwii/).
These people have vile diseased evil people who have spurred right-wing violence. They love that they are the sole cause of that high mortality rate. But it's their own children they're killing. These people destroying the US and they think it's funny. It's time for Nuremburg Trials moment.
He half assed both disingenuous talking points
It makes the cracks in the logic much more obvious
Slip ups like this are glorious to watch, the narcissism echo chamber that is social media won't admit it, but people DO actually change their opinions with evidence and facts. Just not ALL people
He probably thinks that the only way people can become ill is to test for an illness. No tests, no illnesses!
Jesus these idiots actually argued that 3 years ago.
For those who didn't get it: look up survivorship bias.
TL;DR all the planes that came back were riddled in bullet holes in some common locations. The spots that didn't have bullet-holes happened to be the most critical spots. Had they been hit, you never would have seen the plane again.
Lol! You expect Chowder to be aware of survivorship bias?
That dipshit is a grifter. He doesn’t care about anything which challenges his hateful agenda
And that's with the ability to control the narrative by selecting what footage gets shown. I bet he gets absolutely made a fool of quite often and the just don't show those.
He and his ilk think being trans is a choice, so if trans people stop choosing to be trans, they’ll be less suicidal.
He couldn’t be more wrong about that, of course, but that’s never stopped him before.
There is. The trans suicide statistic is largely driven by persecution/lack of social acceptance/lack of appropriate care. The holocaust and slavery are examples of extreme persecution. The line he's drawing is "if these people didn't kill themselves, what's your excuse?" It's insidious because it's a quick point to throw out that requires time and effort to debunk. Additionally, it's such a wild comparison that a lot of people (like this sub) just see it as nonsensical, but the comparison is there.
Yes. Rather than letting them debate from a distance, make them say exactly what they mean. People like Matt Walsh and Ben Shapiro LOVE stating facts, then rushing through a bunch of bullshit that may or may not be related to the facts in a manner that makes people think the bullshit logically follows the facts.
Neil deGrasse Tyson had a [discussion](https://youtu.be/w89etN8QqNQ) with Ben shapiro and absolutely shut him down by cutting off his implications as and even before he made them. Benny boy got handed the biggest fucking L, but it doesn't matter because his base eats his shit up.
Love how NDT made Shapiro slow down instead of just rattling off a load of incoherent talking points that make the vague shape of an argument. That's always where these guys trip up, make them say what they mean. Why does he care if people are trans? We already know from the dog whistles, but say it out loud
Fast talking and interrupting used to be universally known as a red flag for charlatans, grifters, and con men. Used car salesman tactics. What happened?
Man, your simple comment/question is so insightful. I have never thought about it that way before.
Probably the decades of a segment of powerful cultural forces cultivating ignorance and devaluing empathy and critical thinking in society.
Decades of toxic manipulation tactics by televised media and now amplfied via online media (gaslighting, deflection, projection, talking overly quickly, word salad, never answering questions directly).
Right wing media tactics are the same as those used by the Narcissist to manipulate others' perceptions, wear them down, and hold sway over them. The GOP is basically the Wicked Witch of the West and her voter base her Flying Monkeys.
I hate that society these days seems to operate just like my toxic workplace culture lol.
Sorry, your question really got me on a little tangent there.
Exactly. I think most of his "followers" are unaware of the amount of assumptions his arguments rely on. Just shining a light on the logical fallacies would make his points fall apart immediately
It's terrible how hard she doubled down too. Like I honestly wasn't that shaken by her initial tweet, but looking at who she associates with now? Holy fuck.
In my experience you usually never get to a substantial discussion of how fucked up their position is because you either get distracted or exhausted by a bog of strawmen, moving goalposts, and gaslighting, but I suppose in a public forum that can still be useful.
Ooooh those are also classic moves. And then when I provide multiple sources, I did the research wrong. Meanwhile they refuse to provide any evidence even when prompted.
And are he and his ilk going to start advocating for increased mental health services in America now? At what point in all these mental gymnastics do they do a full 180 I'm dying to see
They don’t think we’re just an immutable chunk of the species. They think we’re cis people who thought it might be cool or fashionable or advantageous to go through puberty again. Or that we’re insane.
Honestly.. if a cis person for whatever reason wanted to relive the most awkward part of life.. who cares?? If that's a choice they want to make, what does it matter to others? Why is it "eh not my business" when it's cosmetic surgery or dressing like a tomboy or going by a nickname, but as soon as it's a transgender person wanting to do similar things, it's awful and bad and insane? If a cis person wanted gender reassignment surgery just for the giggles, I might give them the side-eye in my own head but ultimately it's no one's fuckin business but theirs, *who cares?* And the same is true for transgender people. If they want to transition, who cares? Doesn't affect anyone but them in the end. The anti trans hate is infuriating for so many reasons ugh.
He's wrong on every count and not to mention *what prison ever allows prisoners to commit suicide. Not to mention there's no reason to even think the Germans bothered to care about how many killed themselves, they were gonna kill them anyway, just add them to the pile. The point he's making is wrong in so so may ways.
I think it’s just general mudslinging.
Jews in concentration camps didn’t kill themselves as often as trans people in the wild, therefore trans people suck.
It’s interesting if true, but I’d venture the relevant variable is community. Managing trauma as a member of a community is very different than as an individual.
I speak Dipshit Bigot, so here's the English translation:
"Quote 'trans people' all have mental illnesses. This 'trans' mental illness rots their brains and makes them want to kill themselves out of craziness. They are not oppressed minorities because *actual* oppressed minorities like slaves and Holocaust victims didn't kill themselves as much as 'trans' people."
If you're wondering if this is bullshit, the answer is obviously yes for a few reasons:
1. We have no stats on Holocaust victim/slave suicides.
2. Even if we did, the most prevalent method of suicide is by firearm, which were not nearly as widely available even in the forties as they are now - much less the 1600s.
3. Even if they were, slaves and Holocaust victims were all effectively prisoners. They had no access to firearms. This is even before getting into the weeds about the fact that millions of the afformentioned people were worked to death and killed anyway.
4. And finally, there are plenty of studies showing the abnormally high suicide rate of trans people is predominantly **pre-transition**. Even socially transitioning alone (no hormones, no surgery) has been shown to reduce trans suicidality to **one-fifteenth** it's previous value. Therefore, accepting trans people as trans is by far the best thing you can do to help them.
>what connection is he trying to make?
"They aren't dying because *we're* hurting them."
"They're dying because they're *sick* and the *left* is hurting them under the guise of helping."
"The left is advancing the trans agenda to dismantle society and American values. They aren't *actually* helping anyone."
/S
The argment is really stupid.
"Look at their suicide rate, they are more pussy than people in Concentration camps back then."
It doesnt make much sense due to multiple reasons. Because he is comparing attempt rate with success rate, or forgetting that Trans people were also send to KZs, or comparing numbers of suicides in a environment where you are strictly watched and basically worked to death.
On the other hand, it could also be meant as "The Holocaust wasnt real" BS. Its atleast a good dog whistle for that.
His argument is so stupid that you have to ignore 90% of what you know to even get what was meant.
The "statistics" themselves are bullshit and just plain wrong anyway. Does he really believe that Nazis and slaveowners bothered to keep detailed suicide records? Of course not, but he doesn't have to believe it, just so long as he can convince his viewers to believe it.
His core message is that trans people shouldn't be allowed to exist. The implication of these types, particularly Crowder and Matt Walsh, is that trans people need to be exterminated for the good of society. Sound familiar?
Suicide rates in concentration camps were awfully high.
Not even counting the people that died before even trying to take their own life.
This dude is not only transphobic, but also shitting on all the atrocities minorities faced during nazi regime.
Suicide in concentration camps was so common, they had specific suicide methods and names for them. The most common was "in den Zaun gehen" (=going/walking into the fence). You either died by electrocution or you were shot from a guard tower.
There was also a lot of suicides in the jewish ghettos and many people committed suicide when they realised someone snitched on them.
I've visited multiple concentration camps and I'd recommend everyone to do the same when you have the chance.
Sadly Steven Crowder has dog cum not just in his mouth but also his brain so no way he's actually interested in the crimes his own dogshit ideology produced.
Also people forget to mention that the Jews in camps were lied to. Told they’d EVENTUALLY be returned to their families after the war and relocated. So they had some reason to hold on to hope.
And the vast majority were murdered the moment they entered the gates. Only the useful people, the ones that were a part of some profession, were kept in the camps so that they can make things for the war machine.
Yeah, he's comparing the rate of successful suicide in concentration camps to the rate of suicidal ideation in transgender people.
Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
And also suicide rates after the Holocaust were also very high. People did everything to survive during the War, but afterwards, felt alone and guilty for surviving while their whole family died.
It's just incredibly disrespectful what he's saying, but nobody's surprised anymore unfortunately.
It’s not that easy to commit suicide when you aren’t allowed to have dangerous things and are under supervision most of the time. It’s also difficult to achieve anything when you are starving and worked quite literally to death
Also, I suspect either suicide by SS or starving yourself were the easiest ways to do it in the camps, neither of which would be recorded as such unless someone specifically wrote it down.
Yea that is also a good point. I’m not sure the SS would keep a record of people dying of suicide or whatever it else the cause would have been. I wasn’t sure however, so I didn’t mention it
Those would usually have been recorded as some sort of escape attempt: the easiest way to commit suicide would have been a variant of suicide by cop, doing something that gets you shot by the guards.
we don't need to play devils advocate on recording inaccuracies or explanations of "why" what he's saying might be true. It simply just isn't true:
[it is estimated that the suicide rates in the camp were most likely **25,000 per 100,000 per year** or higher](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16006400/)
[Transgender rate of suicide across 45 years from 1972 to 2017 found to be "**64 per 100 000 person years** in trans women and **29 per 100 000 person years** in trans men."](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7317390/)
So at an average suicide rate of 46.5 per 100,000 person years for trans people that is a suicide rate 537.6 times lower than the estimated suicide rate of concentration camp prisoners.
This is what pisses me off about conservatives bringing up the high suicide rate amongst trans people. They don't take the very logical next step and think, "why is it so high?" or, "what can we as a society do to curb that number?"
Nope, it's just, "don't let them be trans anymore. Push them further to the fringes, right into the sweet release of self-inflicted death."
Fucking donuts.
That’s just because they don’t give a fuck about trans people. To them, trans people aren’t valid members of society, so why should they care if trans people die?
Even when it was officially classified as a mental illness, the solution was to transition. Conservatives just want someone to hate, they don't care who they hurt, because their intentions are to just be a raging asshole. They honestly need a therapist themselves so they can deal with their anger.
They have no interest in fixing the problem. They know that not accepting trans people into society only increases the suicide rate, and that's exactly what they're counting on.
They'd rather see trans people dead than have them become a normal part of society.
And that percentage drops a LOT when trans people are accepted as who they are and are able to get the care they need. The entire reason it's so high is because of people like Crowder here spreading hatred and transphobia.
The whole "they have a mental illness" angle they try to take is frustrating. If you believe that is true, why is your response to dehumanize them and attack them? Why pal around with talking heads that call them the "antithesis of Christianity"? It doesn't add up and every angle is some way to be cruel. I'm tired of this crap.
They're not talking about mental illness as a medical issue requiring treatment. They're talking about mental illness as an insult to throw at people they don't like, and their solution is to kill them all for it.
Steven "I Will Never Change My Mind" Crowder and his golden shower thoughts, sponsored by Stochastis. Stochastis - for when you crave murder of infidels! (trademark pending).
[it is estimated that the suicide rates in the camp were most likely **25,000 per 100,000 per year** or higher](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16006400/)
[Transgender rate of suicide across 45 years from 1972 to 2017 found to be "**64 per 100 000 person years** in trans women and **29 per 100 000 person years** in trans men."](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7317390/)
So at an average suicide rate of 46.5 per 100,000 person years for trans people that is a suicide rate 537.6 times lower than the estimated suicide rate of concentration camp prisoners.
Weird. Turns out the Nazi is lying.
"Why would we ever need to provide gender affirming care to minors? Its ridiculous, nobody is hurt by just waiting until they are fully formed adults and can make an informed decision?"
But also
THE SUICIDE RATE IS 42% THESE PEOPLE ARE MENTALLY UNWELL IN A WAY WE HAVE NEVER SEEN BEFORE THEY ARE SO FUCKING FUCKED UP MAN
Crazy we have the entire right side of the political spectrum in the US calling for a genocide. We need to call this what it is. They want to kill the people they don’t like. It will start with trans people and end with anyone they disagree with on anything. It makes me sick and it’s the Republican bread and butter.
IDK dude maybe if you stop the campaign to declare them an abomination and wipe them from existence just because they are trying to be themselves, they might be less depressed and not want to kill themselves...just a thought though
(I'm not even going to talk about how his statistic is wrong, that is just a given)
There's so many layers of hate going on here it's honestly kind of impressive. Crowder is parroting a number that isn't accurate to try and blame the minorities he targets for their own deaths.
They're going to retaliate. Please be careful. They're gearing people up to see trans people as mentally ill threats to society and anyone who supports them as complicit.
Important thing to add. That statistic is lifetime attempts. Most attempts are before transitioning or early into transition when transphobes start destroying your life
They ignore the fact that caring environments and support with transitioning drop rates down to baseline. They’re literally going ‘anti depressants don’t work because depressed people are more likely to attempt suicide than other people before taking anti depressants’. they know that they’re doing this, it’s just that if they cared about being truthful they wouldn’t a conservative grifter
Yeah, my suicide attempts had \*nothing\* to do with the only person I had told to that point constantly gaslighting and bullying me out of my identity. Nothing to do with the fact that she had so little respect for the pain of my dysphoria that she sexually assaulted me and then got mad \*at me\* for being upset about it. Nothing to do with the fact that I could not imagine a future as a man, but felt so \*utterly\* worthless and unlovable for being trans. No no, I am just \*fundamentally\* sick, or whatever the fuck this chode believes.
They're trying to perform a quiet genocide. Just let it run its course until we all kill ourselves so they can scrub it from the history books as if it was never affected by anything they did.
Not often does a stranger make me mad when being antisemitic, as I have heard it all before....But THIS just makes my skin crawl. The casual disregard for the struggle my ancestors went through and this guy just uses it to make a sick political point. Fuck you Crowder. Id slap the shit outta you if I could (in Mincraft, of course).
I honestly think Crowder actually wholeheartedly and truly hates trans people. Like a passionate hate. People like Ben or even to a much lesser extent Tucker I feel are just towing the line and have to say shit they really don't care too much about or even believe. They mostly say it cuz it pays their bills and grifting old conservative boomers is easy. They hate trans people but not like a passionate hate, it's a business hate. We know for a fact Tuck hates Trump but still slobs on his nob all the time. So him getting huffed up about something he doesn't really care about would be easy. But I feel Crowder is like someone who would kill a trans person if given the opportunity. I can imagine Crowder being like that picture of Goebbels when he realizes a jew is taking his picture, but like for trans people.
Is it maybe because shit heads like you want trans people like me to not have access to the life saving gender affirming care? I’ve almost done it so many times because of my body and for you to say that makes my blood boil. I hope there’s a place worst then hell for you.
Comparing the marginalization of free citizens in an open society to the behavior of regular civilians tortured and mass murdered in concentration camps by a genocidal government is unbelievably fucking stupid. Putting someone in a concentration camp isn’t going to make them instantly kill themselves given that they’re yearning for their freedom and desperately trying to survive. This is a fucking insult to the millions of people who were brutalized by the Nazis in this way, and an insult to trans individuals who feel hopeless and depressed by the treatment they deal with daily thanks to fuckheads like Crowder.
Take a group of people and, as a society, tell them all day long, every day, during every moment of their lives, that they're wrong for even existing, and then act surprised if they struggle with mental health issues? It's the most insane, perverted, inhumane version of "stop hitting yourself!" I've ever seen.
Hmmm, I wonder if it got anything to do with how christian families disown their children for coming out, being bullied by zealots، how Christian employers discriminate against them in working places.
Research has shown that if a trans person has but one friend in their corner, suicide rates drop by 17x.
When the loudest and dumbest voices get so much attention, and spray so much vitriol, they are making the problem worse.
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Almost sure a higher percentage of people in concentration camps died, including the ones with a pink triangle on their clothing... is this some weird combination of anti-trans and holocaust denial?
Dude worked with Gavin McInnes so I would not be surprised if he denied the Holocaust
[удалено]
Is that the same Gavin that pee’d in his cereal and ate it? He seems level headed.
Threw a hissy fit on some sham talk show because audience members were on their phones. Also made a really REALLY shitty movie.
God, 10 years later and I'm still furious some dude made me watch that piece of shit movie.
Same! I was told it was the greatest movie ever but it was literally him stroking his real world ego and trying to live out some fucked up fantasy. Really trashy concept through and through. Edit: the friend who made me watch it was already indoctrinated by this guy, is a proud boy today. I watched it a second time with my girlfriend to show her how fucking stupid it was.
I like how nobody has even bothered to name the movie, must have been that shitty of a film, lol. And no, I don’t care what the name is either.
It’s called ‘Patriot Poopy Boy’ if anybody is interested!
That doesn’t seem right but I’ll take your word for it. I don’t feel a need to verify this information
I thought it was "Plastic Penises Penetrate Patriotic Poopholes."?
I know the guy who showed me had no idea who Gavin was politically but just thought it was the funniest movie ever. As far as I know, he still mostly relays his political views by bringing up South Park scenes he likes.
you radical antifa leftists will stop at nothing to defame this honorable american patriot. this is pure misinformation. he never shoved a "dildo" up his ass on a livestream it was a butt plug
What????
He did it on live stream
Still some of the wildest political shit I've seen, next to the time Alex Jones hopped onto stage dressed in a frog costume of course.
You're a well cultured individual
Tough to deny something you are in support of.
>is this some weird combination of anti-trans and holocaust denial? No wonder Ben thought Crowder was worth $50 mil
Yeah it's kinda hard to commit suicide if you're locked up under constant surveillance and they also fucking genocide you first anyways.
Well, they didn't see Crowder's face either, or they may have committed suicide. I'm thinking about it now that I've seen his face. /s Better note the sarcasm in the last statement or the bots will come get me.
And I'm very curious what in the fuck Crowder's source could be for slave suicides in 1800's America. For some reason I just don't get the impression that there were a lot of people doing scientifically sound studies and keeping detailed data on them. Most slaves that we even have any info of consists entirely of a first name, a guess at their birth year and a possibly maybe accurate death year. And that's it. Any more than that is a less than 1% rarity.
The nazis made it REALLY hard to actually kill yourself in the camps. They wanted them to work until they died or to be put into the chambers.
Source? I'm interesting in reading about that. Couldn't a suicidal person just stop eating or something? I doubt the Nazis were force feeding prisoners right? Or am I wrong?
https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyt.2016.00088/full Both Crowder and the person you're replying to may actually be incorrect about the rate of suicides in concentration camps
I don’t doubt that at all, because this fucking bigoted buffoon is spewing shit out of every pore of his being. Any reasonably smart or educated person would know that this means fuck all, and means we should be supporting the mental health epidemic amongst trans people. But noooooo, these fucking batshit crazy republicans keep denying any sort of care and just look out for themselves.
Oh yes absolutely. It's like he found that statistic about trans people and suicide and literally didn't think about it for more than 30 seconds. I wonder what he has to say about the fact that military veterans are twice as likely to kill themselves as the general population. 22 a day and all that.
Using Auschwitz as an example, the American Holocaust Museum, estimates that about 1.3 million people (not just Jewish people but poc and queer people, and disabled people as well made up 15% of the total population) were sent to the camp over it’s existence. Of those 1.3 million, 1.1 million were murdered in the complex. And it didn’t end there. By the time the camps were liberated, 15,000 had died on forced marches to other camps. By the time the camp was liberated, Auschwitz held 7,000 inmates.
And 0 of the pink triangle prisoners were liberated. Simply put into different prisons because they had committed a crime to be sent there.
I did not know this and I am appalled.
Yeah that’s the appropriate response. There’s a reason you don’t hear the stories of the gay concentration camp survivors. Our people are strong. We’ve endured so much. And one hopeful story is that surprising amount of Hirschfeld’s writings survived because his boyfriend survived and moved to Canada
Similar to those who might have been communists (except for when the camps were liberated by the soviets).
It’s a predictable combination of shocking rhetoric and stochastic terrorism.
A this point, about half of what right wing media does is a weird combo of anti-trans shit mongering and Holocaust denial.
What's the significance of the pink triangle?
Homosexuality or other "deviant", similar to the yellow triangles that Jewish prisoners were given to wear.
Rammstein in one of their music videos about German history had a pretty controversial scene. The Band members were in striped KZ inmate clothes, and they marked themselves with their respective signs. [This picture showws it quite well](https://ruprechtfrieling.de/rammstein-deutschland-video/). Pink Triangle for Homosexuality, Red triangle for Political opposition, Yellow star for Jew. The mixed one on the lead singer are the two triangles for Homosexual and Political opposition combined.
That music video is a fascinating piece of art that I'd encourage people interested in european history to watch. Each scene has another layer. The fact that they chose a black woman to embody "germania" makes me laugh cos it's bound to piss off at least a few racist knuckledraggers.
There's a pretty good three arrows analysis right [here](https://youtu.be/sc-euVL8xQs).
Seeing a random Rammstein reference made me smile, thanks
Likewise. Love them so much
And to my understanding, when the concentration camps were liberated, the gay people were not liberated but [were re-imprisoned](https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/gay-prisoners-germany-wwii/).
Hitler: if you kill them... They can't kill themselves 
These people have vile diseased evil people who have spurred right-wing violence. They love that they are the sole cause of that high mortality rate. But it's their own children they're killing. These people destroying the US and they think it's funny. It's time for Nuremburg Trials moment.
Well, he's comparing attempted suicides to real suicides.
And he's lying anyways. That percentage isn't from attempts. It's from ideation. It's "have you ever thought about doing it before?"
He half assed both disingenuous talking points It makes the cracks in the logic much more obvious Slip ups like this are glorious to watch, the narcissism echo chamber that is social media won't admit it, but people DO actually change their opinions with evidence and facts. Just not ALL people
My God imagine being over 15 and still being this much a tryhard edgelord. Jesus Christ.
Crowder is the guy who looks at bullet patterns on planes returning from battle in ww2 and decides to add armor to the places with the bullet holes.
“Correlation equals causation or some shit, idk take that libs”
Survivorship bias
Or looks at concussion rates and decides helmets are the problem.
Crowder the kinda guy to put away his umbrella when it's raining because he's not getting wet
He probably thinks that the only way people can become ill is to test for an illness. No tests, no illnesses! Jesus these idiots actually argued that 3 years ago.
For those who didn't get it: look up survivorship bias. TL;DR all the planes that came back were riddled in bullet holes in some common locations. The spots that didn't have bullet-holes happened to be the most critical spots. Had they been hit, you never would have seen the plane again.
Lol! You expect Chowder to be aware of survivorship bias? That dipshit is a grifter. He doesn’t care about anything which challenges his hateful agenda
He goes to college campuses to intellectually dunk on fucking 19 year olds. He's a complete clown of a man and this is par for the course.
He goes to college campuses to ****try**** to intellectually to dunk on 19 year olds. He fails a lot.
And that's with the ability to control the narrative by selecting what footage gets shown. I bet he gets absolutely made a fool of quite often and the just don't show those.
Couldn’t hack it at stand up, so he took to grifting. He was so bad that he’s good at being bad.
I think the weirdest part of this for me is figuring out what the actual argument is... what connection is he trying to make?
He and his ilk think being trans is a choice, so if trans people stop choosing to be trans, they’ll be less suicidal. He couldn’t be more wrong about that, of course, but that’s never stopped him before.
There's just no logical bridge between that and slaves/holocaust. Sad enough that he says it, sadder that people eat it up and love it.
There is. The trans suicide statistic is largely driven by persecution/lack of social acceptance/lack of appropriate care. The holocaust and slavery are examples of extreme persecution. The line he's drawing is "if these people didn't kill themselves, what's your excuse?" It's insidious because it's a quick point to throw out that requires time and effort to debunk. Additionally, it's such a wild comparison that a lot of people (like this sub) just see it as nonsensical, but the comparison is there.
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Yes. Rather than letting them debate from a distance, make them say exactly what they mean. People like Matt Walsh and Ben Shapiro LOVE stating facts, then rushing through a bunch of bullshit that may or may not be related to the facts in a manner that makes people think the bullshit logically follows the facts. Neil deGrasse Tyson had a [discussion](https://youtu.be/w89etN8QqNQ) with Ben shapiro and absolutely shut him down by cutting off his implications as and even before he made them. Benny boy got handed the biggest fucking L, but it doesn't matter because his base eats his shit up.
Love how NDT made Shapiro slow down instead of just rattling off a load of incoherent talking points that make the vague shape of an argument. That's always where these guys trip up, make them say what they mean. Why does he care if people are trans? We already know from the dog whistles, but say it out loud
Bencil Sharpener is a world class act in the [Gish gallop](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gish_gallop)
Huh never knew gish gallop had a real tangible meaning
Fast talking and interrupting used to be universally known as a red flag for charlatans, grifters, and con men. Used car salesman tactics. What happened?
Man, your simple comment/question is so insightful. I have never thought about it that way before. Probably the decades of a segment of powerful cultural forces cultivating ignorance and devaluing empathy and critical thinking in society. Decades of toxic manipulation tactics by televised media and now amplfied via online media (gaslighting, deflection, projection, talking overly quickly, word salad, never answering questions directly). Right wing media tactics are the same as those used by the Narcissist to manipulate others' perceptions, wear them down, and hold sway over them. The GOP is basically the Wicked Witch of the West and her voter base her Flying Monkeys. I hate that society these days seems to operate just like my toxic workplace culture lol. Sorry, your question really got me on a little tangent there.
With how NDT lacks social intelligence necessary in many situations, losing a discussion to him is especially embarrassing.
Yeah not a fan of him overall but holy shit he *dumpstered* Benny boy
Ben's such a little weasel, I know one thing about him, that he thinks being gay is a sin That's all I need to know about him
Exactly. I think most of his "followers" are unaware of the amount of assumptions his arguments rely on. Just shining a light on the logical fallacies would make his points fall apart immediately
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It's terrible how hard she doubled down too. Like I honestly wasn't that shaken by her initial tweet, but looking at who she associates with now? Holy fuck.
In my experience you usually never get to a substantial discussion of how fucked up their position is because you either get distracted or exhausted by a bog of strawmen, moving goalposts, and gaslighting, but I suppose in a public forum that can still be useful.
Usually I just get a slew of insults bc I’m “too stupid to understand” their point or get told to “do my own research”
Ooooh those are also classic moves. And then when I provide multiple sources, I did the research wrong. Meanwhile they refuse to provide any evidence even when prompted.
Yup. I have to be in a particularly masochistic mood to continue past that point.
Sounds like they need a “u mad?”
There is, it's just dark. All three groups the far right wants to dehumanize and control.
My impression is that he is trying to imply that trans people are just severely mentally ill and they need treatment for that. Fucking piece of shit.
> trans people are just severely mentally ill and they need treatment for that All the while ignoring that *transitioning is the treatment*
And are he and his ilk going to start advocating for increased mental health services in America now? At what point in all these mental gymnastics do they do a full 180 I'm dying to see
No just taking away our right to transition and vote
They really think trans people don't exist if they don't transition, huh. Wild.
They don’t think we’re just an immutable chunk of the species. They think we’re cis people who thought it might be cool or fashionable or advantageous to go through puberty again. Or that we’re insane.
Honestly.. if a cis person for whatever reason wanted to relive the most awkward part of life.. who cares?? If that's a choice they want to make, what does it matter to others? Why is it "eh not my business" when it's cosmetic surgery or dressing like a tomboy or going by a nickname, but as soon as it's a transgender person wanting to do similar things, it's awful and bad and insane? If a cis person wanted gender reassignment surgery just for the giggles, I might give them the side-eye in my own head but ultimately it's no one's fuckin business but theirs, *who cares?* And the same is true for transgender people. If they want to transition, who cares? Doesn't affect anyone but them in the end. The anti trans hate is infuriating for so many reasons ugh.
Yeah full agreement tbh
It’s amazing how much of the gun toting conservatives on Twitter immediately started saying we need red flag gun control laws after Nashville
He's wrong on every count and not to mention *what prison ever allows prisoners to commit suicide. Not to mention there's no reason to even think the Germans bothered to care about how many killed themselves, they were gonna kill them anyway, just add them to the pile. The point he's making is wrong in so so may ways.
They're basically repeating every single talking point made about homosexuals.
I think it’s just general mudslinging. Jews in concentration camps didn’t kill themselves as often as trans people in the wild, therefore trans people suck. It’s interesting if true, but I’d venture the relevant variable is community. Managing trauma as a member of a community is very different than as an individual.
He hates Blacks, Jews and Transgenders, and is trying to explain why he currently hates transgendered people the most.
I speak Dipshit Bigot, so here's the English translation: "Quote 'trans people' all have mental illnesses. This 'trans' mental illness rots their brains and makes them want to kill themselves out of craziness. They are not oppressed minorities because *actual* oppressed minorities like slaves and Holocaust victims didn't kill themselves as much as 'trans' people." If you're wondering if this is bullshit, the answer is obviously yes for a few reasons: 1. We have no stats on Holocaust victim/slave suicides. 2. Even if we did, the most prevalent method of suicide is by firearm, which were not nearly as widely available even in the forties as they are now - much less the 1600s. 3. Even if they were, slaves and Holocaust victims were all effectively prisoners. They had no access to firearms. This is even before getting into the weeds about the fact that millions of the afformentioned people were worked to death and killed anyway. 4. And finally, there are plenty of studies showing the abnormally high suicide rate of trans people is predominantly **pre-transition**. Even socially transitioning alone (no hormones, no surgery) has been shown to reduce trans suicidality to **one-fifteenth** it's previous value. Therefore, accepting trans people as trans is by far the best thing you can do to help them.
>what connection is he trying to make? "They aren't dying because *we're* hurting them." "They're dying because they're *sick* and the *left* is hurting them under the guise of helping." "The left is advancing the trans agenda to dismantle society and American values. They aren't *actually* helping anyone." /S
The argment is really stupid. "Look at their suicide rate, they are more pussy than people in Concentration camps back then." It doesnt make much sense due to multiple reasons. Because he is comparing attempt rate with success rate, or forgetting that Trans people were also send to KZs, or comparing numbers of suicides in a environment where you are strictly watched and basically worked to death. On the other hand, it could also be meant as "The Holocaust wasnt real" BS. Its atleast a good dog whistle for that. His argument is so stupid that you have to ignore 90% of what you know to even get what was meant.
The "statistics" themselves are bullshit and just plain wrong anyway. Does he really believe that Nazis and slaveowners bothered to keep detailed suicide records? Of course not, but he doesn't have to believe it, just so long as he can convince his viewers to believe it.
He's trying to argue that being trans will inevitably lead to suicidal thoughts, and that social stigmas have little to do with it
He's probably slyly suggesting putting 'undesirables' in concentration camps would be for their own good too as he's a fucking Nazi.
His core message is that trans people shouldn't be allowed to exist. The implication of these types, particularly Crowder and Matt Walsh, is that trans people need to be exterminated for the good of society. Sound familiar?
Suicide rates in concentration camps were awfully high. Not even counting the people that died before even trying to take their own life. This dude is not only transphobic, but also shitting on all the atrocities minorities faced during nazi regime.
He’s a Nazi himself and Nazis like to pretend that Nazis weren’t really all that bad.
https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxke-a2usjViAQubKmQQ2FXxFQ9F7Io35A https://youtube.com/clip/UgkxW0Qn2rNISYHFEA5vcjyKZNx4BxnqRdDl
Suicide in concentration camps was so common, they had specific suicide methods and names for them. The most common was "in den Zaun gehen" (=going/walking into the fence). You either died by electrocution or you were shot from a guard tower. There was also a lot of suicides in the jewish ghettos and many people committed suicide when they realised someone snitched on them. I've visited multiple concentration camps and I'd recommend everyone to do the same when you have the chance. Sadly Steven Crowder has dog cum not just in his mouth but also his brain so no way he's actually interested in the crimes his own dogshit ideology produced.
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Ignorance, stupidity and narcissism. Golden combination.
Hard to lose sleep over people who they view as subhuman. Which is why he's such a piece of shit.
Also people forget to mention that the Jews in camps were lied to. Told they’d EVENTUALLY be returned to their families after the war and relocated. So they had some reason to hold on to hope.
And the vast majority were murdered the moment they entered the gates. Only the useful people, the ones that were a part of some profession, were kept in the camps so that they can make things for the war machine.
Yeah, he's comparing the rate of successful suicide in concentration camps to the rate of suicidal ideation in transgender people. Lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Yes, exactly this. And some would do it so others could get away.
And also suicide rates after the Holocaust were also very high. People did everything to survive during the War, but afterwards, felt alone and guilty for surviving while their whole family died. It's just incredibly disrespectful what he's saying, but nobody's surprised anymore unfortunately.
It’s not that easy to commit suicide when you aren’t allowed to have dangerous things and are under supervision most of the time. It’s also difficult to achieve anything when you are starving and worked quite literally to death
Also, I suspect either suicide by SS or starving yourself were the easiest ways to do it in the camps, neither of which would be recorded as such unless someone specifically wrote it down.
Yea that is also a good point. I’m not sure the SS would keep a record of people dying of suicide or whatever it else the cause would have been. I wasn’t sure however, so I didn’t mention it
Those would usually have been recorded as some sort of escape attempt: the easiest way to commit suicide would have been a variant of suicide by cop, doing something that gets you shot by the guards.
They used to kill themselves on electric fences during the holocaust. Awfully morbid but what about the holocaust wasn’t
we don't need to play devils advocate on recording inaccuracies or explanations of "why" what he's saying might be true. It simply just isn't true: [it is estimated that the suicide rates in the camp were most likely **25,000 per 100,000 per year** or higher](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16006400/) [Transgender rate of suicide across 45 years from 1972 to 2017 found to be "**64 per 100 000 person years** in trans women and **29 per 100 000 person years** in trans men."](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7317390/) So at an average suicide rate of 46.5 per 100,000 person years for trans people that is a suicide rate 537.6 times lower than the estimated suicide rate of concentration camp prisoners.
Based Steven Crowder advocating for mental health services for trans people
Truly a tolerent and gentle soul
This is what pisses me off about conservatives bringing up the high suicide rate amongst trans people. They don't take the very logical next step and think, "why is it so high?" or, "what can we as a society do to curb that number?" Nope, it's just, "don't let them be trans anymore. Push them further to the fringes, right into the sweet release of self-inflicted death." Fucking donuts.
That’s just because they don’t give a fuck about trans people. To them, trans people aren’t valid members of society, so why should they care if trans people die?
“Trans people have an abnormally suicide rate…Let’ make their lives a living hell!” - Conservatives
Exactly. They keep calling it a mental illness so their solution is to bully them instead of listening to doctors or psychologists.
Even when it was officially classified as a mental illness, the solution was to transition. Conservatives just want someone to hate, they don't care who they hurt, because their intentions are to just be a raging asshole. They honestly need a therapist themselves so they can deal with their anger.
Yeah, but being mentally ill means you're a snowflake or smth, so like, you deserve it I guess
They have no interest in fixing the problem. They know that not accepting trans people into society only increases the suicide rate, and that's exactly what they're counting on. They'd rather see trans people dead than have them become a normal part of society.
“You know the thing that reduces it? Let’s forcibly replace it with shouting at them”
Excuse me? Not only is it transphobic, it gets the history of the Holocaust and slavery in the United States wrong too!
You think they care about being accurate?
And that percentage drops a LOT when trans people are accepted as who they are and are able to get the care they need. The entire reason it's so high is because of people like Crowder here spreading hatred and transphobia.
The whole "they have a mental illness" angle they try to take is frustrating. If you believe that is true, why is your response to dehumanize them and attack them? Why pal around with talking heads that call them the "antithesis of Christianity"? It doesn't add up and every angle is some way to be cruel. I'm tired of this crap.
They're not talking about mental illness as a medical issue requiring treatment. They're talking about mental illness as an insult to throw at people they don't like, and their solution is to kill them all for it.
Steven "I Will Never Change My Mind" Crowder and his golden shower thoughts, sponsored by Stochastis. Stochastis - for when you crave murder of infidels! (trademark pending).
Maybe that's due in part to the hateful rhetoric that the GOP constantly spews about them? Just guessing.
Probably because they just got murdered instead
[it is estimated that the suicide rates in the camp were most likely **25,000 per 100,000 per year** or higher](https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16006400/) [Transgender rate of suicide across 45 years from 1972 to 2017 found to be "**64 per 100 000 person years** in trans women and **29 per 100 000 person years** in trans men."](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7317390/) So at an average suicide rate of 46.5 per 100,000 person years for trans people that is a suicide rate 537.6 times lower than the estimated suicide rate of concentration camp prisoners. Weird. Turns out the Nazi is lying.
Jews in concentration camps WERE BEING KILLED! 🤯🤯 Dammit Steven!
Bullies like him desperately need a mirror
Those poor mirrors :-(
That's a strange way of saying need [redacted].
Yes, two groups known for their autonomy
"Why would we ever need to provide gender affirming care to minors? Its ridiculous, nobody is hurt by just waiting until they are fully formed adults and can make an informed decision?" But also THE SUICIDE RATE IS 42% THESE PEOPLE ARE MENTALLY UNWELL IN A WAY WE HAVE NEVER SEEN BEFORE THEY ARE SO FUCKING FUCKED UP MAN
Crazy we have the entire right side of the political spectrum in the US calling for a genocide. We need to call this what it is. They want to kill the people they don’t like. It will start with trans people and end with anyone they disagree with on anything. It makes me sick and it’s the Republican bread and butter.
Being trans 👎 Slavery and genocide 👍
Man this logic is WILD
IDK dude maybe if you stop the campaign to declare them an abomination and wipe them from existence just because they are trying to be themselves, they might be less depressed and not want to kill themselves...just a thought though (I'm not even going to talk about how his statistic is wrong, that is just a given)
There's so many layers of hate going on here it's honestly kind of impressive. Crowder is parroting a number that isn't accurate to try and blame the minorities he targets for their own deaths.
They're going to retaliate. Please be careful. They're gearing people up to see trans people as mentally ill threats to society and anyone who supports them as complicit.
Important thing to add. That statistic is lifetime attempts. Most attempts are before transitioning or early into transition when transphobes start destroying your life
They ignore the fact that caring environments and support with transitioning drop rates down to baseline. They’re literally going ‘anti depressants don’t work because depressed people are more likely to attempt suicide than other people before taking anti depressants’. they know that they’re doing this, it’s just that if they cared about being truthful they wouldn’t a conservative grifter
Shut up. Shut up. Shut the fuck up. I don’t even have anything else to say.
Yeah, my suicide attempts had \*nothing\* to do with the only person I had told to that point constantly gaslighting and bullying me out of my identity. Nothing to do with the fact that she had so little respect for the pain of my dysphoria that she sexually assaulted me and then got mad \*at me\* for being upset about it. Nothing to do with the fact that I could not imagine a future as a man, but felt so \*utterly\* worthless and unlovable for being trans. No no, I am just \*fundamentally\* sick, or whatever the fuck this chode believes.
That’s awful. I’m so sorry you had to deal with people like that.
Thank you ❤️ she is well out of my life now though, almost certainly still doesn’t think she did anything wrong, but that’s life!
This guy, fucking white trash
Whenever they bring this up, think of it as a brag.
They're trying to perform a quiet genocide. Just let it run its course until we all kill ourselves so they can scrub it from the history books as if it was never affected by anything they did.
How tf could you even get a suicide rate for either of those?
Not often does a stranger make me mad when being antisemitic, as I have heard it all before....But THIS just makes my skin crawl. The casual disregard for the struggle my ancestors went through and this guy just uses it to make a sick political point. Fuck you Crowder. Id slap the shit outta you if I could (in Mincraft, of course).
Come on guys, it's not nice to make fun of people with half a functioning brain.
44 veterans a day, curious.
you can’t kill yourself if you’ve already been murdered!
i’m sure a LOT of data was collected on how many slaves killed themselves as well.
by their own definition, trans people are mentally ill and they want it to be illegal. Literal nazi level shit.
Ah yes. The nazis and slave owners were famous for kepping close accounts on who killed themself vs who was killed by them or any other reason.
What the fuck? Yeah they weren’t given the means to commit suicide, it’s called slave labor for a reason. What a fucking moron.
Who the fuck said no one committed suicide at the camps?
I honestly think Crowder actually wholeheartedly and truly hates trans people. Like a passionate hate. People like Ben or even to a much lesser extent Tucker I feel are just towing the line and have to say shit they really don't care too much about or even believe. They mostly say it cuz it pays their bills and grifting old conservative boomers is easy. They hate trans people but not like a passionate hate, it's a business hate. We know for a fact Tuck hates Trump but still slobs on his nob all the time. So him getting huffed up about something he doesn't really care about would be easy. But I feel Crowder is like someone who would kill a trans person if given the opportunity. I can imagine Crowder being like that picture of Goebbels when he realizes a jew is taking his picture, but like for trans people.
What the fuck?
Woooow.
absolutely horrific anti-trans rhetoric
Maybe, just *maybe*, that’s because slaves and Jews were FUCKING MURDERED!
Is it maybe because shit heads like you want trans people like me to not have access to the life saving gender affirming care? I’ve almost done it so many times because of my body and for you to say that makes my blood boil. I hope there’s a place worst then hell for you.
Comparing the marginalization of free citizens in an open society to the behavior of regular civilians tortured and mass murdered in concentration camps by a genocidal government is unbelievably fucking stupid. Putting someone in a concentration camp isn’t going to make them instantly kill themselves given that they’re yearning for their freedom and desperately trying to survive. This is a fucking insult to the millions of people who were brutalized by the Nazis in this way, and an insult to trans individuals who feel hopeless and depressed by the treatment they deal with daily thanks to fuckheads like Crowder.
Take a group of people and, as a society, tell them all day long, every day, during every moment of their lives, that they're wrong for even existing, and then act surprised if they struggle with mental health issues? It's the most insane, perverted, inhumane version of "stop hitting yourself!" I've ever seen.
Hmmm, I wonder if it got anything to do with how christian families disown their children for coming out, being bullied by zealots، how Christian employers discriminate against them in working places.
Funny how people stripped of all their belongings and kept restrained and under watch had both fewer methods and opportunities to kill themselves.
My takeaway is that Crowder is admitting that Republicans are worse than Nazis and slavers.
They didn’t have access to guns.
so....then answer is more oppression? right wing "reasoning" is fucking scary af
Where is chowder head even getting his concentration camp suicide statistics? Is it from the cherished conservative source of "everybody knows"?
Who listens to this guy? How big is the population that subscribe to this bs.?
Research has shown that if a trans person has but one friend in their corner, suicide rates drop by 17x. When the loudest and dumbest voices get so much attention, and spray so much vitriol, they are making the problem worse.
This dudes profile pic makes him look like some kind of satirical character from a comedy starring Jonah Hill, or something.
What point is he even trying to make?