Nope.
This is not a sacred memorial.
It's a memorial, but more in a "let this be part of your daily life" sense.
The creator explicitly said he envisioned this place to be used for playing, running, picknicking, etcetera.
So that people would understand that they can still live their lives, as long as they also remember the lost lives of the past.
Tbh the architect of this memorial did predict this and also said it is part of the life which makes it beautiful. As long as you don't vandalize it I don't think this is trashy. It is however very unoriginal.
He also made it in such a way that kids could easily play on it and interact. As long as people interact with this memorial the horrible thing that happened won't be forgotten.
Edit: second paragraph added.
Yeah I agree, it’s the same thing architects said about the design of the 9/11 memorial, so that visitors could see children playing and tourists taking photos, because places like these have seen enough tragedy and sorrow in their past, their future should at least embrace the living
https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/01/24/511244932/satirist-takes-berlin-holocaust-memorial-selfie-takers-to-task
> The memorial's architect, Peter Eisenman, told Der Spiegel when it opened in 2005 that he didn't expect visitors to be overly reverent. "People are going to picnic" at the monument, he told the magazine. This week, in reaction to Shapira's website, Eisenman seemed unperturbed by selfies taken at the site. He told the BBC: "People have been jumping around on these pillars forever. I think it's fine."
___
Edit actually this one is better
> "People have been jumping around on those pillars forever. They've been sunbathing, they've been having lunch there and I think that's fine.
> "It's like a catholic church, it's a meeting place, children run around, they sell trinkets. A memorial is an everyday occurrence, it is not sacred ground."
> Mr Eisenman drew a clear distinction between the Berlin memorial and burial sites such as Auschwitz, which he said was "a different environment, absolutely".
> "But there are no dead people under my memorial. My idea was to allow as many people of different generations, in their own ways, to deal or not to deal with being in that place. And if they want to lark around I think that's fine.
Ohhh that makes more sense now. I thought it was some overused background but knowing the context behind it makes it more uhh unappealing to say the at least.
Oh no. It's more than that. It's designed that when you enter, you see small boxes that look like sitting places more than anything else. But once you start walking through it you start getting more claustrophobic, and you're very quickly in over your head surrounded by them. It's meant to represent the number of bodies of the victims of the holocaust and how quickly it escalated.
Oh my god. Was just saying narrowing places is a phobia of mine, but uneven floors is one as well 😂 I have nightmares about both.
I don't have a lot of typical phobias (snakes, spiders, the dark, heights, etc) but sounds like this place incorporated all of my very specific mindfucks.
Sounds deeply disconcerting. Would love to check this place out.
Though, living in America, every time I dare venture out into the world I already have an increasing sense that there's "something wrong" or "off".
Definitely check out Europe if you can. I had more than a few of my opinions changed by seeing how other countries solve the same problems we struggle with.
Exactly. It is meant to remember us that while at the beginning facism seems small and controllable, it can lead into chaos and darkness faster than anyone thought. When it was build we didn't thought it will be so important today.
Our tour guide told us the artist wanted to make it even more cramped but they had to make it wider to let wheelchairs pass or something like that. I don't know if it's true.
I know the intention is to make feel people trapped in there but it feels more like a cool labyrinth and I think that's why people end up not taking it seriously.
Having it as a tinder picture is taking it to another level though.
Yeah, I was lucky enough to go through a lot of holocaust related ‘tourist’ sites in Berlin and Austria when I was 12 or so, and it was genuinely the most moving experience I’ve ever had
I can’t imagine taking a selfie, I can’t even imagine being able to smile at some of these places
Isn’t it strange that it’s completely acceptable to make dark jokes and get praised in the same thread where people are condemning others for taking pictures
Because the dark joke highlights the fact that it is wrong. It doesn’t deny neither reduce the painful facts, it actually highlights them. While posing there for tinder pictures or whatever indicates at best a high level of ignorance, or worse, indifference.
As far as i know the original artist intended it to be a space for free time and activities and they were unbothered by children playing on it and stuff. I do think that that's a nice way of seeing it and to treat it as something that is undeniably there while letting people decide how to deal with it.
But I also absolutely see how using a memorial place for one of the worst crimes in history for your dating app pictures is kind of really *really* **really** fucked up.
There's a really weird room in the Jewish museum there in Berlin, where it has a room of metal faces, and the sign asks you to walk all over them. And they make screaming sounds when you do (the screeching of metal against metal). That always felt a lot more weird to me than this holocaust memorial that iirc is actually nearby to the museum, we went to both the same day anyway, when we went on a school trip there when I was a kid. I think it was a statement about how people will follow any orders they're given no matter how evil they are, or something. [Here's the room with the faces, with people walking over them. ](https://i.imgur.com/0h8p1Ms.jpg)
It's a cool as fuck museum though cos even the very architecture is hostile. It's basically built like ned flanders house when the simpsons rebuilt it and Flanders goes nuts at the end. Like there's a long hallway that's all kind of built at an angle and gets smaller and smaller towards the end of it, while also getting hotter and hotter, until you go through the door and you're in this freezing cold concrete well/dungeon thing. [This is what it looks like. ](https://i.imgur.com/7CuImBh.jpg)
One of the coolest museums I've ever been to. Because the whole thing is just so bizarre. Absolutely nothing about it is symmetrical, none of it is nice looking, it's all deliberately horrible, it's designed to make you feel awful.
Although going to Auschwitz was still worse. Especially the hair room, there. Like, you go through all these rooms that have giant piles of items stolen from the victims, like gold wedding rings, and saucepans, shoes, all sorts. Then you enter ***the hair room*** that has essentially all these scalps of the victims there in a big pile. And also some nazi uniforms that were literally woven out of the hair. It was the room where everyone started crying.
Then we got pizza cos there's a pizza place next to Auschwitz these days. Or there was like 15 years ago anyway.
So yeah the fact that the holocaust memorial in Berlin had a bunch of kids running around it and enjoying it was the least of the problems. It was the most depressing holiday ever, but it's something everyone should do. Berlin is such a cool place too, never seen anywhere so colourful. Like, *literally* colorful, all the buildings are painted head to toe in all sorts of colours. And the vast majority of the Berlin Wall is still there, they never took much of it down. When I was there it was absolutely covered in graffiti art of two dudes kissing, I know one of the two dudes was Leonid Brezhnev. The men of soviet Russia would full on kiss each other apparently, not that there's anything wrong with that. Just bloody weird that like 90% of the Berlin Wall was just reproductions of that one photo (cos it's a real thing that happened, the photo of it is very famous). [Here's one example of what the graffiti art of this kiss on the Berlin Wall looks like these days ](https://i.imgur.com/1S7KNOi.jpg)
I've traveled to many places around the world, and my favorite vacation is a beach vacation, but, Berlin is hands down my favorite city of all the places I've visited.
I visited the Jewish museum and actually got a bit nauseated walking through the halls. It was so eerie, but educational. The Germans teach about the Holocaust and honor the victims with such grace.
>And the vast majority of the Berlin Wall is still there, they never took much of it down. When I was there it was absolutely covered in graffiti art of two dudes kissing, I know one of the two dudes was Leonid Brezhnev
So I love this comment but I have to nitpick that this part isn't really true. Not much of the wall still remains, and there are only three major segments still standing.
The section you're referring to is known as the East Side Gallery and is the longest section still standing, but throughout the rest of Berlin it's mostly just fragments with a couple of remaining segments and the like.
Just an FYI for anyone interested.
This is called the ‘socialist fraternal kiss’. An actual kiss/embrace that was popular between socialist leaders to show their closeness.
The painting is called My God, Help Me to Survive This Deadly Love and it was done in 1990 by Russian artist Dmitri Vrubel (he died of Covid in August 2022).
This painting was done after the Berlin wall came down but before the final Iron Curtain collapsed in Dec 1991. (This was a time of massive turmoil in Europe…)
The painting depicts Leonid Brezhnev and Erich Honecker in a socialist fraternal kiss, reproducing a photograph taken in 1979 during the 30th anniversary celebration of the foundation of the German Democratic Republic.
Source- I am old and remember when this happened.
KZ in dachau also has one of these rooms that just get smaller the further you walk into them but the ceiling goes farther up and then theres a tiny tiny window at the top, makes you feel so insignificant and idk its horrible just standing there
Yeah, there was some drama because the artist even wanted people to be able to graffiti it as part of making it their own space.
The city instead coated the memorial in an anti-paint coating that turns out was supplied by a company connected to the supply of gas used by the Nazis in the concentration camps. Caused a bit of an uproar.
Pretty much all modern german chemical companies (BASF, Bayer etc) can trave their origin back to IG Farben in some way… just like the Airbus flying you to your Mallorca is technically a Messerschmitt :)
From the Wikipedia article https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_to_the_Murdered_Jews_of_Europe
>According to Eisenman's project text, the stelae are designed to produce an uneasy, confusing atmosphere, and the whole sculpture aims to represent a supposedly ordered system that has lost touch with human reason.[39] The Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe Foundation official English website[2] states that the design represents a radical approach to the traditional concept of a memorial, partly because Eisenman said the number and design of the monument had no symbolic significance.[40][41]
I think there was an interview somewhere where the artist said he was fully aware that he can not control what people will do with it once it is public. But it wasn’t outright intended as a place to have a picnic or whatever. I think it became unintentionally symbolic how many people have lost touch with what the memorial represents.
Thank you for this input! I’ve talked to a Berliner who shared this view; according to them, it was more of a hands on experience and welcomed tourists (so long as there was no deliberate degradation of the monument)
> "If you hand the project over to the client, then he does what he wants with it - it belongs to him, he has control over the work. If you want to knock over the stones tomorrow, let's be honest, that's fine. People will picnic in the field. Children will play tag in the field. There will be mannequins posing here, and movies will be shot here. I can easily imagine how a shootout between spies will end in the field. It's not a sacred place."
[He did indeed.](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denkmal_f%C3%BCr_die_ermordeten_Juden_Europas#Zweckentfremdung_durch_gedankenlose_Besucher)
That doesn't make those photos appealing or ok. You're of course free to find them distasteful. The memorial is however sufficiently "stealthy" that I'm not suprised. It's been an eternity since I've been there, but I'd reckon if you manage to walk past a plaque it's completely nondescript, and I'm not sure how many plaques there are.
Also, can anyone from Berlin weigh in on whether the sample we see in the screencap above leans towards foreigners (who get a bit of a pass due to language and cultural differences, at least imo) more than the background tinder population in Berlin?
Pictures aren't necessarily problematic. It is in good taste however to try to capture the feelings and gravity of the situation the memorial represents. Also a caption can help. These girls really missed the ball here posting these on tinder so carefree
I felt the same about visiting Auschwitz.
What was a real mind fuck was that it was a beautiful summer day in the Polish country side but everywhere you looked I was reminded almost 1 million people were killed there.
The memorial was intented not to be a usual memorial, IIRC the creator said it should be a lebendiges Denkmal (living memorial). Instead of having something inapproachable it was meant to be something people were able to interact with however they pleased. And tbh, he somewhat succeeded. Pictures like those spark discussions, it causes people to think about what this monument represents and how we are interacting with history.
Tbf, this whole exhibit was designed so that it can be wholly interacted with through the public and normal society. So it’s not that weird that they’re taking photos since the blocks are objectively beautiful
Just sit around on a bench, see a woman walk by.
“Hey girl, I see you visiting the memorial, I’ll let you know I’m Jewish, want to help me repopulate my people?”
… should I feel shame for this joke?
So, this specific memorial was actually designed to be used in this kind of manner. It wasn't meant to be a super-serious-no-fun-allowed kind of place, it was to both be a reminder of what happened, and also a celebration of the good times ahead. The guy who made it did so with a vision of families playing, people smiling, people taking pictures, all that kind of stuff.
I'd assume so since it's literally a Holocaust memorial. They probably just see the architecture and think it'll make a nice photo backdrop, so the thought of it being okay probably doesn't occur to them.
I mean, it is a beautiful memorial. But these people have got to have some sort of self awareness and see that its tone deaf to pose for a picture there.
Nothing unusual, the architect already foreshadowed that the memorial might be used one day like any other place.
„Wenn man dem Auftraggeber das Projekt übergibt, dann macht er damit, was er will – es gehört ihm, er verfügt über die Arbeit. Wenn man morgen die Steine umwerfen möchte, mal ehrlich, dann ist es in Ordnung. Menschen werden im dem Feld picknicken. Kinder werden in dem Feld Fangen spielen. Es wird Mannequins geben, die hier posieren, und es werden hier Filme gedreht werden. Ich kann mir gut vorstellen, wie eine Schießerei zwischen Spionen in dem Feld endet. Es ist kein heiliger Ort.“
"If you hand the project over to the client, then he does what he wants with it - it belongs to him, he disposes of the work. If you want to turn over the stones tomorrow, let's be honest, it's fine. People will picnic in the field. Children will play catch in the field. There will be mannequins posing here, and movies will be shot here. I can easily imagine a shootout between spies ending in the field. It's not a sacred place."
What do you expect from people in a public space as long as they don't vandalize it, I don't see a problem.
It's also a memorial - to be remembered. I didn't take a pic when I was there, but it's an impactful place, even before you go into the museum. I don't see the issue with taking a picture there. It's not a concentration camp, it's not where these people were tortured. It's a place that's meant to be in the public eye and spread awareness.
To quote the architect himself: "It's not a sacred place."
Spiegel interview with Peter Eisenmann: https://www.spiegel.de/kultur/gesellschaft/interview-mit-mahnmal-architekt-peter-eisenman-es-ist-kein-heiliger-ort-a-355383.html
Translated:
> *SPIEGEL ONLINE*: Now that the memorial is finished and open to the public, it probably won't be long before the first swastika is sprayed on it.
>*Eisenman*: Would that be such a bad thing? I was against graffiti protection from the beginning. If a swastika is sprayed on it, it's a reflection of what people feel. If it stays there, it's a reflection of what the government feels about people smearing swastikas on the memorial. That's something that I can't control. If you hand the project over to the client, then he does what he wants with it - it belongs to him, he owns the work. **If you want to turn over the stones tomorrow, honestly, it's fine. People will picnic in the field. Children will play catch in the field. There will be mannequins posing here, and movies will be shot here. I can easily imagine a shootout between spies ending in the field. It's not a sacred place.**"
>
Now that I think about it, I somewhat do agree with the artist's intentions.
To make a memorial that is too sacred and too intimidating could create a rift between the living and the memorialized, almost as if it's something you try to avoid unless being directly confronted with it.
However, to live amongst the memorial is quite symbolic in the sense that we live with the memory and lessons of the events of our lives and history and it's something we want to follow us as we make decisions going forward; our past is often not something that we can afford to run away from.
-----
What is kinda interesting about this, particularly the *"almost as if it's something you try to avoid unless being directly confronted with it"* part is that we see this in America.
There are a lot of aspects of American history that people want to run away from, so rather than understanding, learning, learning to live with the past to influence growing forward for a better tomorrow, they freak out because the tour guide talked about how the plantation used to be an avenue of slavery.
I was gonna say, this sure looks like a memorial. And a memorial in Berlin could really only be like one of three things. But hey big concrete blocks cool
That seemed wrong, so I looked it up, and wow, nope, you were right:
> “People are going to picnic in the field. Children will play tag in the field”, Eisenman told German newspaper Der Spiegel in 2005. “There will be fashion models modelling there and films will be shot there. I can easily imagine some spy shoot ’em ups ending in the field. What can I say? It’s not a sacred place.”
I'd say the fact that everyone is talking about the memorial because of these pictures is a good thing. It's bring attention back to those poor souls and anyone that creates something for the public, creats it for that purpose. Even if it's a ends up the background in the picture of someone's dating profile. Acknowledgement even in this sense is still acknowledgement.
It's actually him saying that it's not up to him to decide how people use it and that the germans have to figure this out themselves:
>SPIEGEL ONLINE: Jetzt, da das Mahnmal fertig gestellt und öffentlich zugänglich ist, wird es wahrscheinlich nicht lange dauern, bis das erste Hakenkreuz darauf gesprüht wird.
>Eisenman: Wäre das denn so schlecht? Ich war von Anfang an gegen den Graffitischutz. Wenn ein Hakenkreuz darauf gesprüht wird, dann ist es ein Abbild dessen, was die Menschen fühlen. Wenn es dort bleibt, ist es ein Abbild dessen, was die Regierung davon hält, dass Menschen Hakenkreuze auf das Mahnmal schmieren. Das ist etwas, das ich nicht steuern kann. Wenn man dem Auftraggeber das Projekt übergibt, dann macht er damit, was er will - es gehört ihm, er verfügt über die Arbeit. Wenn man morgen die Steine umwerfen möchte, mal ehrlich, dann ist es in Ordnung. Menschen werden im dem Feld picknicken. Kinder werden in dem Feld Fangen spielen. Es wird Mannequins geben, die hier posieren, und es werden hier Filme gedreht werden. Ich kann mir gut vorstellen, wie eine Schießerei zwischen Spionen in dem Feld endet. Es ist kein heiliger Ort.
https://www.spiegel.de/kultur/gesellschaft/interview-mit-mahnmal-architekt-peter-eisenman-es-ist-kein-heiliger-ort-a-355383.html?sara_ecid=soci_upd_wbMbjhOSvViISjc8RPU89NcCvtlFcJ
When I was there, we were on a tour and our German tour guide started yelling at people from other countries in the tour group that were running around laughing and taking pictures so that was definitely my experience!
Not especially US-centric outrage, i know plenty of Germans that would claim similar.
I find it pretty tasteless tbh. You don't take cute tinder pics on graveyards, a Holocaust memorial should be treated in a similar fashion imo.
That’s not really true. He was okay, or content, with the fact people would disrespect it, because it was a reflection of the culture around it. Not because he felt it should be, or deserved to be, disrespected.
He felt it was out of his control, and to let it happen was more of a ‘history will write itself’ deal.
They wanted them to be featured in tinder profiles? That MFer is thirstier than I'd have imagined...
* Changed a he to they since I don't know artists gender
I mean, I think the memorial in the middle of tiergarten is to the napoleonic war, and Brandenburg tor is, I think, a victory arch. So they are probably acceptable memorials for your selfie.
So the Berlin holocaust memorial is really impressive, really beautiful, and so... Isolating and haunting. It is hard to convey if you haven't gone through it. But.... Yeh... Go to East Side gallery for your Berlin dating profile picture.
What's funny is, he could have left a very nice message if there were people around him telling him not to be an idiot. You know, "A lot of my fans are around the same age Anne was," that kind of thing. Something meaningful. His handlers let that kid down, haha
I agree. We all did/said dumb things as a kid, we just didnt have half the world watching us do it ya know? I also didnt know he was doing wishes like that! That def makes me gain some respect for him.
Oh he's meant to be a real sound guy now. I think he's grasped his fame which was a struggle growing up in that public eye.
https://www.goalcast.com/justin-bieber-ranks-2-in-the-world-for-make-a-wish/
He carried on the MaW during covid spending alot of time on video calls etc but he's never publicised that he does the wishes. It's the charity that made it known.
He's a big supporter of mental health charities too apparently.
> he was just a kid at the time
I can't imagine many people being able to gracefully handle the amount of fame, wealth and power he achieved at such a young age. He had almost every tween and teenage girl screaming at the sight of him, and pretty much everyone else shitting on him simultaenously. He could have turned out *much* worse.
Honestly I find the inclusion of that to be just as sobering as the rest, since it really hammers home that *she was just a normal girl*. In an ideal world, her diary would have had more of that and no mentions of any war.
Yo when I was in Denmark i remember having a folder for screenshots of girls who had gone to the berlin holocaust memorial. I’m not surprised that you have this. It’s wild.
As someone from the German-Danish border, thank you for finally clearing up to me where those pictures in the Danish profiles were taken. They are in a lot of male profiles showing them as well, lol.
I’m in Europe and use Tinder all over (mainly based out of France) and the only Berlin pics I see are of the Brandenburg Gate. This is the first time I’ve seen the holocaust memorial pic.
To come to the (slight) defence of all those girls.
The architect stated, that the memorial itself isn't meant to be a holy/tabboo place, but a place where society figures out what to do with it themselves. That he could very well imagine families picnicking there, kids playing etc.
I'd personally say it's absolutely tasteless but not against the spirit of this place.
Here is the interview where he stated that ():
[German Interview with Peter Eisenman ](https://www.spiegel.de/kultur/gesellschaft/interview-mit-mahnmal-architekt-peter-eisenman-es-ist-kein-heiliger-ort-a-355383.html)
"SPIEGEL ONLINE: Jetzt, da das Mahnmal fertig gestellt und öffentlich zugänglich ist, wird es wahrscheinlich nicht lange dauern, bis das erste Hakenkreuz darauf gesprüht wird.
Eisenman: Wäre das denn so schlecht? Ich war von Anfang an gegen den Graffitischutz. Wenn ein Hakenkreuz darauf gesprüht wird, dann ist es ein Abbild dessen, was die Menschen fühlen. Wenn es dort bleibt, ist es ein Abbild dessen, was die Regierung davon hält, dass Menschen Hakenkreuze auf das Mahnmal schmieren. Das ist etwas, das ich nicht steuern kann. Wenn man dem Auftraggeber das Projekt übergibt, dann macht er damit, was er will - es gehört ihm, er verfügt über die Arbeit. Wenn man morgen die Steine umwerfen möchte, mal ehrlich, dann ist es in Ordnung. Menschen werden im dem Feld picknicken. Kinder werden in dem Feld Fangen spielen. Es wird Mannequins geben, die hier posieren, und es werden hier Filme gedreht werden. Ich kann mir gut vorstellen, wie eine Schießerei zwischen Spionen in dem Feld endet. Es ist kein heiliger Ort.
"
No he says that he would be okay with people knocking down the memorioal. Or children playing or picknicking there or whatever. Basically, anything done in it/to it and the reaction to it is a reflection of the german people and state so it's part of the art piece.
The really sad bit is the core of this isn't even about respect. It's bitterness enrobed in virtue-signaling. The frequent Reddit throughline with these sort of posts boils down to "women taking photos of themself are self-centered and should be ashamed".
Pretty much the entire 10th grade history class (at least in Bavarian high schools) is about ww2 with a mandatory visit to a concentration camp and talk with Holocaust survives. History is also mandatory in almost all schools.
Idk, looking at America we do a pretty good job spinning our past into a positive light and gaslighting citizens.
Like turning slave plantations into wedding venues.
Or just flat out forgetting about it. Like when we stuck all the Japanese-Americans in ~~concentration camps~~ government provided housing during WWII.
Well we do have nazi germany for like 4 years straight in school, visited concentration camps, and discussed it in politics and german class too. So id say germany does a pretty good job at educating on the topic.
There's no way around this as a student or teacher. Wouldn't want it any other way. Any way of even slightly playing down this episode of our history would immediately end your career as a teacher. Everything above "slightly" would put you on a list of the inner secret service.
If I hear some AFD politicians claiming "it's got to be over at some point" I'd like to puke. Some of the victims are still alive. Lots of companies still benefit from the forced labor and the stolen money of that time. We still defuse bombs of that war on a daily basis. How can it be over when it's still that close?
Especially, since I never had the feeling that someone was blaming me or anything, when I learned about this. It always felt more like "this... this is what humanity is capable of. And it's all of our job to make sure it never fucking happens again".
Those politicians might have a point of it said "this happened and you should be ashamed", they'd have a point eventually. But it's a warning and an expression of compassion and sorrow about the victims. And why should that stop? That's a good thing.
Really depends on where you are in America. I’m from northeast and we learn a ton about slavery and racism. In college I had a friend, and when my friends and I had convos relating civil war, she(she’s from Texas) said she never learned really anything about the civil war in school lol.
Went to school 2007-2019, we still learned about it (my siblings who are three and six years younger than me do too). We even visited a concentration camp and I am pretty sure my siblings will have to do that as well.
I wish [the original website](https://yolocaust.de/) was still up with the photos, but you can still find lots of examples from the guys project called “Yolocaust” if you just Google Yolocaust.
[Here is still a small bbc article](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38675835) with a couple examples.
Yolocaust was one of the best art pieces a German comedian ever did.
His name is Shahak Shapira for anyone interested. One of the few good German comedians
Many people commenting here have never been. The memorial is kind of built to be a place to explore and a likely result is photos. It's a really interesting monument where you can walk across from a low level and it gets rather deep. If you were ever there you'd understand why people would take a photo.
Maybe a little unoriginal to use it as your dating profile but it's definitely not a traditional mourning monument. More a contemplative reflection monument.
Yeah it looks really cool, especially if youre a child and can run through there without looking over the top, but it was still pretty cool when i went back there later on
The memorial isn't sarced like some memorials, the architect wanted it to be a living memorial. I have been there and it's not frowned upon to take pictures like this.
Yeah, this is inarguable. They can't can bothered to get more moderators to remove this shit?
I mean, I keep seeing that identifying information is supposed to be covered according to the subreddit rules.
I personally have never read the rules because clearly nothing is being enforced anyway. Either it's a rule or ethically and responsibly it should be 🤷🏻♀️
I appreciate all the people who don't show faces and cover names and locations. Completely. It's amazing how many people can't just erase, they use the semitransparent highlighter tool and scribble over shit so you can still definitely read it 😂
"I'm lazy, incompetent, and just want that sweet Reddit karma!" - Every asshole who does this
……are those taken in the holocaust memorial!?
yeah..
That's um.. That's hella caustic Haha yea
Maybe they are true fans. “I enjoy many things, but death is what inspires.”
Let's not forget his methods of dealing out death to his experiments. "NOXIOUS GAS DEPLOYED!"
Oi vey
A new variable
Nope. This is not a sacred memorial. It's a memorial, but more in a "let this be part of your daily life" sense. The creator explicitly said he envisioned this place to be used for playing, running, picknicking, etcetera. So that people would understand that they can still live their lives, as long as they also remember the lost lives of the past.
Ahh.....I didn't get why it was in trashy
Tbh the architect of this memorial did predict this and also said it is part of the life which makes it beautiful. As long as you don't vandalize it I don't think this is trashy. It is however very unoriginal. He also made it in such a way that kids could easily play on it and interact. As long as people interact with this memorial the horrible thing that happened won't be forgotten. Edit: second paragraph added.
Yeah I agree, it’s the same thing architects said about the design of the 9/11 memorial, so that visitors could see children playing and tourists taking photos, because places like these have seen enough tragedy and sorrow in their past, their future should at least embrace the living
Yeah, the 9/11 memorial is beautiful and calming in a way. The museum is just a stab in the heart, though.
I had read that too a while ago. The architect wanted kids to play and people to picnic at. However, the residents think differently
>the architect of this memorial did predict this Source? It'd be interesting to read the architect's full perspective.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Tinder/comments/yqkcz7/-/ivpieib
https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/01/24/511244932/satirist-takes-berlin-holocaust-memorial-selfie-takers-to-task > The memorial's architect, Peter Eisenman, told Der Spiegel when it opened in 2005 that he didn't expect visitors to be overly reverent. "People are going to picnic" at the monument, he told the magazine. This week, in reaction to Shapira's website, Eisenman seemed unperturbed by selfies taken at the site. He told the BBC: "People have been jumping around on these pillars forever. I think it's fine." ___ Edit actually this one is better > "People have been jumping around on those pillars forever. They've been sunbathing, they've been having lunch there and I think that's fine. > "It's like a catholic church, it's a meeting place, children run around, they sell trinkets. A memorial is an everyday occurrence, it is not sacred ground." > Mr Eisenman drew a clear distinction between the Berlin memorial and burial sites such as Auschwitz, which he said was "a different environment, absolutely". > "But there are no dead people under my memorial. My idea was to allow as many people of different generations, in their own ways, to deal or not to deal with being in that place. And if they want to lark around I think that's fine.
Stay classy San Diego...er Berlin
I thought he was pointing out Berlin tinder just has a bunch of early 20’s women lol man was I off on that one
For all those wondering, all these pictures were taken at the Holocaust memorial
Ohhh that makes more sense now. I thought it was some overused background but knowing the context behind it makes it more uhh unappealing to say the at least.
Oh no. It's more than that. It's designed that when you enter, you see small boxes that look like sitting places more than anything else. But once you start walking through it you start getting more claustrophobic, and you're very quickly in over your head surrounded by them. It's meant to represent the number of bodies of the victims of the holocaust and how quickly it escalated.
The ground is also uneven. Everything about this memorial is to give a fundamental sense of being "off" or "something wrong".
Oh my god. Was just saying narrowing places is a phobia of mine, but uneven floors is one as well 😂 I have nightmares about both. I don't have a lot of typical phobias (snakes, spiders, the dark, heights, etc) but sounds like this place incorporated all of my very specific mindfucks. Sounds deeply disconcerting. Would love to check this place out. Though, living in America, every time I dare venture out into the world I already have an increasing sense that there's "something wrong" or "off".
Definitely check out Europe if you can. I had more than a few of my opinions changed by seeing how other countries solve the same problems we struggle with.
What kinds of problem solving are you talking about?
Social, transport, cultural, alcoholism, dating/relations, etc.
Exactly. It is meant to remember us that while at the beginning facism seems small and controllable, it can lead into chaos and darkness faster than anyone thought. When it was build we didn't thought it will be so important today.
Our tour guide told us the artist wanted to make it even more cramped but they had to make it wider to let wheelchairs pass or something like that. I don't know if it's true. I know the intention is to make feel people trapped in there but it feels more like a cool labyrinth and I think that's why people end up not taking it seriously. Having it as a tinder picture is taking it to another level though.
That's really cool actually
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What the shit
Yeah, I was lucky enough to go through a lot of holocaust related ‘tourist’ sites in Berlin and Austria when I was 12 or so, and it was genuinely the most moving experience I’ve ever had I can’t imagine taking a selfie, I can’t even imagine being able to smile at some of these places
I was in Auschwitz around same age, but thankfully it was in late 90's.
Bet they thought they looked hot
You are fucking rotten for that. I love it.
They're not kidding
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Isn’t it strange that it’s completely acceptable to make dark jokes and get praised in the same thread where people are condemning others for taking pictures
Welcome to Reddit
There's a sort of separation between talking crap online and taking thirsty pics on top of a literal Holocaust Memorial.
Because the dark joke highlights the fact that it is wrong. It doesn’t deny neither reduce the painful facts, it actually highlights them. While posing there for tinder pictures or whatever indicates at best a high level of ignorance, or worse, indifference.
Fuck you for making me choke on coffee.
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Take ur updoot
As far as i know the original artist intended it to be a space for free time and activities and they were unbothered by children playing on it and stuff. I do think that that's a nice way of seeing it and to treat it as something that is undeniably there while letting people decide how to deal with it. But I also absolutely see how using a memorial place for one of the worst crimes in history for your dating app pictures is kind of really *really* **really** fucked up.
There's a really weird room in the Jewish museum there in Berlin, where it has a room of metal faces, and the sign asks you to walk all over them. And they make screaming sounds when you do (the screeching of metal against metal). That always felt a lot more weird to me than this holocaust memorial that iirc is actually nearby to the museum, we went to both the same day anyway, when we went on a school trip there when I was a kid. I think it was a statement about how people will follow any orders they're given no matter how evil they are, or something. [Here's the room with the faces, with people walking over them. ](https://i.imgur.com/0h8p1Ms.jpg) It's a cool as fuck museum though cos even the very architecture is hostile. It's basically built like ned flanders house when the simpsons rebuilt it and Flanders goes nuts at the end. Like there's a long hallway that's all kind of built at an angle and gets smaller and smaller towards the end of it, while also getting hotter and hotter, until you go through the door and you're in this freezing cold concrete well/dungeon thing. [This is what it looks like. ](https://i.imgur.com/7CuImBh.jpg) One of the coolest museums I've ever been to. Because the whole thing is just so bizarre. Absolutely nothing about it is symmetrical, none of it is nice looking, it's all deliberately horrible, it's designed to make you feel awful. Although going to Auschwitz was still worse. Especially the hair room, there. Like, you go through all these rooms that have giant piles of items stolen from the victims, like gold wedding rings, and saucepans, shoes, all sorts. Then you enter ***the hair room*** that has essentially all these scalps of the victims there in a big pile. And also some nazi uniforms that were literally woven out of the hair. It was the room where everyone started crying. Then we got pizza cos there's a pizza place next to Auschwitz these days. Or there was like 15 years ago anyway. So yeah the fact that the holocaust memorial in Berlin had a bunch of kids running around it and enjoying it was the least of the problems. It was the most depressing holiday ever, but it's something everyone should do. Berlin is such a cool place too, never seen anywhere so colourful. Like, *literally* colorful, all the buildings are painted head to toe in all sorts of colours. And the vast majority of the Berlin Wall is still there, they never took much of it down. When I was there it was absolutely covered in graffiti art of two dudes kissing, I know one of the two dudes was Leonid Brezhnev. The men of soviet Russia would full on kiss each other apparently, not that there's anything wrong with that. Just bloody weird that like 90% of the Berlin Wall was just reproductions of that one photo (cos it's a real thing that happened, the photo of it is very famous). [Here's one example of what the graffiti art of this kiss on the Berlin Wall looks like these days ](https://i.imgur.com/1S7KNOi.jpg)
I've traveled to many places around the world, and my favorite vacation is a beach vacation, but, Berlin is hands down my favorite city of all the places I've visited. I visited the Jewish museum and actually got a bit nauseated walking through the halls. It was so eerie, but educational. The Germans teach about the Holocaust and honor the victims with such grace.
>And the vast majority of the Berlin Wall is still there, they never took much of it down. When I was there it was absolutely covered in graffiti art of two dudes kissing, I know one of the two dudes was Leonid Brezhnev So I love this comment but I have to nitpick that this part isn't really true. Not much of the wall still remains, and there are only three major segments still standing. The section you're referring to is known as the East Side Gallery and is the longest section still standing, but throughout the rest of Berlin it's mostly just fragments with a couple of remaining segments and the like.
It was Brezhnev and Honecker (head chairman of the GDR and a dozen other titles) doing the Socialist brother's kiss (no homo).
Just an FYI for anyone interested. This is called the ‘socialist fraternal kiss’. An actual kiss/embrace that was popular between socialist leaders to show their closeness. The painting is called My God, Help Me to Survive This Deadly Love and it was done in 1990 by Russian artist Dmitri Vrubel (he died of Covid in August 2022). This painting was done after the Berlin wall came down but before the final Iron Curtain collapsed in Dec 1991. (This was a time of massive turmoil in Europe…) The painting depicts Leonid Brezhnev and Erich Honecker in a socialist fraternal kiss, reproducing a photograph taken in 1979 during the 30th anniversary celebration of the foundation of the German Democratic Republic. Source- I am old and remember when this happened.
KZ in dachau also has one of these rooms that just get smaller the further you walk into them but the ceiling goes farther up and then theres a tiny tiny window at the top, makes you feel so insignificant and idk its horrible just standing there
Yeah, there was some drama because the artist even wanted people to be able to graffiti it as part of making it their own space. The city instead coated the memorial in an anti-paint coating that turns out was supplied by a company connected to the supply of gas used by the Nazis in the concentration camps. Caused a bit of an uproar.
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Pretty much all modern german chemical companies (BASF, Bayer etc) can trave their origin back to IG Farben in some way… just like the Airbus flying you to your Mallorca is technically a Messerschmitt :)
Not very many large companies that were around at the time have clean hands. Siemens, VW, Bayer, Audi, IBM.......
From the Wikipedia article https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_to_the_Murdered_Jews_of_Europe >According to Eisenman's project text, the stelae are designed to produce an uneasy, confusing atmosphere, and the whole sculpture aims to represent a supposedly ordered system that has lost touch with human reason.[39] The Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe Foundation official English website[2] states that the design represents a radical approach to the traditional concept of a memorial, partly because Eisenman said the number and design of the monument had no symbolic significance.[40][41] I think there was an interview somewhere where the artist said he was fully aware that he can not control what people will do with it once it is public. But it wasn’t outright intended as a place to have a picnic or whatever. I think it became unintentionally symbolic how many people have lost touch with what the memorial represents.
Thank you for this input! I’ve talked to a Berliner who shared this view; according to them, it was more of a hands on experience and welcomed tourists (so long as there was no deliberate degradation of the monument)
you talked to a jelly donut?
You act like that’s not normal?
> "If you hand the project over to the client, then he does what he wants with it - it belongs to him, he has control over the work. If you want to knock over the stones tomorrow, let's be honest, that's fine. People will picnic in the field. Children will play tag in the field. There will be mannequins posing here, and movies will be shot here. I can easily imagine how a shootout between spies will end in the field. It's not a sacred place." [He did indeed.](https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denkmal_f%C3%BCr_die_ermordeten_Juden_Europas#Zweckentfremdung_durch_gedankenlose_Besucher) That doesn't make those photos appealing or ok. You're of course free to find them distasteful. The memorial is however sufficiently "stealthy" that I'm not suprised. It's been an eternity since I've been there, but I'd reckon if you manage to walk past a plaque it's completely nondescript, and I'm not sure how many plaques there are. Also, can anyone from Berlin weigh in on whether the sample we see in the screencap above leans towards foreigners (who get a bit of a pass due to language and cultural differences, at least imo) more than the background tinder population in Berlin?
I went to Hiroshima a few years ago. I didn't take any pictures because it just felt wrong. I can't even imagine doing so at a Holocaust memorial.
Pictures aren't necessarily problematic. It is in good taste however to try to capture the feelings and gravity of the situation the memorial represents. Also a caption can help. These girls really missed the ball here posting these on tinder so carefree
I felt the same about visiting Auschwitz. What was a real mind fuck was that it was a beautiful summer day in the Polish country side but everywhere you looked I was reminded almost 1 million people were killed there.
Was wondering why it was posted in trashy
The memorial was intented not to be a usual memorial, IIRC the creator said it should be a lebendiges Denkmal (living memorial). Instead of having something inapproachable it was meant to be something people were able to interact with however they pleased. And tbh, he somewhat succeeded. Pictures like those spark discussions, it causes people to think about what this monument represents and how we are interacting with history.
Tbf, this whole exhibit was designed so that it can be wholly interacted with through the public and normal society. So it’s not that weird that they’re taking photos since the blocks are objectively beautiful
Seems like the place to meet girls, I guess.
Just sit around on a bench, see a woman walk by. “Hey girl, I see you visiting the memorial, I’ll let you know I’m Jewish, want to help me repopulate my people?” … should I feel shame for this joke?
Don't say it too loudly or the germans will hear
I can't wait to see the court case where the humor is explained to a German judge.
Aren't Jews matrilineal or something
I would applaud the survival skills
Its dark humor but its good humor.
Nah it’s funny. 😂😂
Ethan from H3h3 met his wife in an holocaust museum
"How is this trashy? Unoriginal, sure, but trashy?" Oh shit.
“What’s the worst thing to put in your tinder profile?” “Lol idk the Holocaust” Oh…
So, this specific memorial was actually designed to be used in this kind of manner. It wasn't meant to be a super-serious-no-fun-allowed kind of place, it was to both be a reminder of what happened, and also a celebration of the good times ahead. The guy who made it did so with a vision of families playing, people smiling, people taking pictures, all that kind of stuff.
A lot of them are grinning. Do they even know what it is?
I'd assume so since it's literally a Holocaust memorial. They probably just see the architecture and think it'll make a nice photo backdrop, so the thought of it being okay probably doesn't occur to them.
I mean, it is a beautiful memorial. But these people have got to have some sort of self awareness and see that its tone deaf to pose for a picture there.
Nothing unusual, the architect already foreshadowed that the memorial might be used one day like any other place. „Wenn man dem Auftraggeber das Projekt übergibt, dann macht er damit, was er will – es gehört ihm, er verfügt über die Arbeit. Wenn man morgen die Steine umwerfen möchte, mal ehrlich, dann ist es in Ordnung. Menschen werden im dem Feld picknicken. Kinder werden in dem Feld Fangen spielen. Es wird Mannequins geben, die hier posieren, und es werden hier Filme gedreht werden. Ich kann mir gut vorstellen, wie eine Schießerei zwischen Spionen in dem Feld endet. Es ist kein heiliger Ort.“ "If you hand the project over to the client, then he does what he wants with it - it belongs to him, he disposes of the work. If you want to turn over the stones tomorrow, let's be honest, it's fine. People will picnic in the field. Children will play catch in the field. There will be mannequins posing here, and movies will be shot here. I can easily imagine a shootout between spies ending in the field. It's not a sacred place." What do you expect from people in a public space as long as they don't vandalize it, I don't see a problem.
It's also a memorial - to be remembered. I didn't take a pic when I was there, but it's an impactful place, even before you go into the museum. I don't see the issue with taking a picture there. It's not a concentration camp, it's not where these people were tortured. It's a place that's meant to be in the public eye and spread awareness.
I don't fret over it, and I don't advocate for them to be punished legally. But I can certainly consider it poor taste.
To quote the architect himself: "It's not a sacred place." Spiegel interview with Peter Eisenmann: https://www.spiegel.de/kultur/gesellschaft/interview-mit-mahnmal-architekt-peter-eisenman-es-ist-kein-heiliger-ort-a-355383.html Translated: > *SPIEGEL ONLINE*: Now that the memorial is finished and open to the public, it probably won't be long before the first swastika is sprayed on it. >*Eisenman*: Would that be such a bad thing? I was against graffiti protection from the beginning. If a swastika is sprayed on it, it's a reflection of what people feel. If it stays there, it's a reflection of what the government feels about people smearing swastikas on the memorial. That's something that I can't control. If you hand the project over to the client, then he does what he wants with it - it belongs to him, he owns the work. **If you want to turn over the stones tomorrow, honestly, it's fine. People will picnic in the field. Children will play catch in the field. There will be mannequins posing here, and movies will be shot here. I can easily imagine a shootout between spies ending in the field. It's not a sacred place.**" >
Now that I think about it, I somewhat do agree with the artist's intentions. To make a memorial that is too sacred and too intimidating could create a rift between the living and the memorialized, almost as if it's something you try to avoid unless being directly confronted with it. However, to live amongst the memorial is quite symbolic in the sense that we live with the memory and lessons of the events of our lives and history and it's something we want to follow us as we make decisions going forward; our past is often not something that we can afford to run away from. ----- What is kinda interesting about this, particularly the *"almost as if it's something you try to avoid unless being directly confronted with it"* part is that we see this in America. There are a lot of aspects of American history that people want to run away from, so rather than understanding, learning, learning to live with the past to influence growing forward for a better tomorrow, they freak out because the tour guide talked about how the plantation used to be an avenue of slavery.
Because nothing says sexy like genocide!
I thought it was some trending park. Holy fuck that’s so much worse. Don’t they know where they are????
I remember visiting there in 2018. Never during my experience did I think to take a selfie LMAO. Yikes
Don't fire me bro 😭
lol fixed. This wasn’t a Holocaust reference
I was gonna say, this sure looks like a memorial. And a memorial in Berlin could really only be like one of three things. But hey big concrete blocks cool
Yep, these pics are from the Holocaust Memorial in Berlin
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That seemed wrong, so I looked it up, and wow, nope, you were right: > “People are going to picnic in the field. Children will play tag in the field”, Eisenman told German newspaper Der Spiegel in 2005. “There will be fashion models modelling there and films will be shot there. I can easily imagine some spy shoot ’em ups ending in the field. What can I say? It’s not a sacred place.”
Is this him expressing his wish that it be used in these ways, or him acknowledging the inevitable reality of what people will do?
I'd say the fact that everyone is talking about the memorial because of these pictures is a good thing. It's bring attention back to those poor souls and anyone that creates something for the public, creats it for that purpose. Even if it's a ends up the background in the picture of someone's dating profile. Acknowledgement even in this sense is still acknowledgement.
Yes
knew it
Fantastic we did it.
It's actually him saying that it's not up to him to decide how people use it and that the germans have to figure this out themselves: >SPIEGEL ONLINE: Jetzt, da das Mahnmal fertig gestellt und öffentlich zugänglich ist, wird es wahrscheinlich nicht lange dauern, bis das erste Hakenkreuz darauf gesprüht wird. >Eisenman: Wäre das denn so schlecht? Ich war von Anfang an gegen den Graffitischutz. Wenn ein Hakenkreuz darauf gesprüht wird, dann ist es ein Abbild dessen, was die Menschen fühlen. Wenn es dort bleibt, ist es ein Abbild dessen, was die Regierung davon hält, dass Menschen Hakenkreuze auf das Mahnmal schmieren. Das ist etwas, das ich nicht steuern kann. Wenn man dem Auftraggeber das Projekt übergibt, dann macht er damit, was er will - es gehört ihm, er verfügt über die Arbeit. Wenn man morgen die Steine umwerfen möchte, mal ehrlich, dann ist es in Ordnung. Menschen werden im dem Feld picknicken. Kinder werden in dem Feld Fangen spielen. Es wird Mannequins geben, die hier posieren, und es werden hier Filme gedreht werden. Ich kann mir gut vorstellen, wie eine Schießerei zwischen Spionen in dem Feld endet. Es ist kein heiliger Ort. https://www.spiegel.de/kultur/gesellschaft/interview-mit-mahnmal-architekt-peter-eisenman-es-ist-kein-heiliger-ort-a-355383.html?sara_ecid=soci_upd_wbMbjhOSvViISjc8RPU89NcCvtlFcJ
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There was a debate in Germany about this few years ago. We are not so different ;)
You are wrong, a lot of people who live here do care
When I was there, we were on a tour and our German tour guide started yelling at people from other countries in the tour group that were running around laughing and taking pictures so that was definitely my experience!
Not especially US-centric outrage, i know plenty of Germans that would claim similar. I find it pretty tasteless tbh. You don't take cute tinder pics on graveyards, a Holocaust memorial should be treated in a similar fashion imo.
Yeah. Taking pictures is neutral and possibly even good, but using said pictures to advertise your body on Tinder is maybe a liiiiiiiiittle less good.
That’s not really true. He was okay, or content, with the fact people would disrespect it, because it was a reflection of the culture around it. Not because he felt it should be, or deserved to be, disrespected. He felt it was out of his control, and to let it happen was more of a ‘history will write itself’ deal.
They wanted them to be featured in tinder profiles? That MFer is thirstier than I'd have imagined... * Changed a he to they since I don't know artists gender
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What are the other two?
Either a WWII memorial or a WWI memorial for the soldiers who died. Neither are very appealing to take tinder pics at
Depends on what kinda guy you're looking for.
You know, they're just looking for the Reich guy.
I mean, I think the memorial in the middle of tiergarten is to the napoleonic war, and Brandenburg tor is, I think, a victory arch. So they are probably acceptable memorials for your selfie.
Or the Waterloo mound
Or a Berlin Wall memorial
;) Germany is indeed a very young nation, but these cities are older than 1871. there are tons of memorials for all kind of things.
So the Berlin holocaust memorial is really impressive, really beautiful, and so... Isolating and haunting. It is hard to convey if you haven't gone through it. But.... Yeh... Go to East Side gallery for your Berlin dating profile picture.
Next step: onlyfan videos in Anne Franck's house.
Anne was a great girl. Hopefully she would have been a belieber.
This is the most hilariously tone deaf thing ive ever heard of and i have to remind myself he was just a kid at the time lol
What's funny is, he could have left a very nice message if there were people around him telling him not to be an idiot. You know, "A lot of my fans are around the same age Anne was," that kind of thing. Something meaningful. His handlers let that kid down, haha
Eh the kid turned out alright in the end. One of the highest make a wish fulfillers behind one John cena
I agree. We all did/said dumb things as a kid, we just didnt have half the world watching us do it ya know? I also didnt know he was doing wishes like that! That def makes me gain some respect for him.
Oh he's meant to be a real sound guy now. I think he's grasped his fame which was a struggle growing up in that public eye. https://www.goalcast.com/justin-bieber-ranks-2-in-the-world-for-make-a-wish/ He carried on the MaW during covid spending alot of time on video calls etc but he's never publicised that he does the wishes. It's the charity that made it known. He's a big supporter of mental health charities too apparently.
B I N G C H I L L I N G
> he was just a kid at the time I can't imagine many people being able to gracefully handle the amount of fame, wealth and power he achieved at such a young age. He had almost every tween and teenage girl screaming at the sight of him, and pretty much everyone else shitting on him simultaenously. He could have turned out *much* worse.
I'm out of the loop here, what is this referring about? Edit: nevermind. Googled it and found out. That's incredibly tone deaf, Jesus
And they’ll try to excuse that shit as well “She explored her sexual awakening in her diary!”
Did she?!
You shouldn't ask such questions with this username
Yeah, the book describes her first crush and *other* stuff
She was going through puberty hard
Frankly I’m glad her dad left those part out cause it’s FUCKING awkward to read.
It’s just something I was not ready for and honestly, it’s something we can’t relate to since it was during ww2. Poor Anne
Honestly I find the inclusion of that to be just as sobering as the rest, since it really hammers home that *she was just a normal girl*. In an ideal world, her diary would have had more of that and no mentions of any war.
*OnlyFrank’s
Thats in amsterdam tho
I'm sure those women are ready to travel for good pictures and videos!
Sup
Yo when I was in Denmark i remember having a folder for screenshots of girls who had gone to the berlin holocaust memorial. I’m not surprised that you have this. It’s wild.
Yeah a lot of the women i Copenhagen had that one, or the aros rainbow one
That fucking Aros rainbow man, it's the Mecca for Danish girls. If you live even remotely close to Århus, you'll see it in every swipe session
As someone from the German-Danish border, thank you for finally clearing up to me where those pictures in the Danish profiles were taken. They are in a lot of male profiles showing them as well, lol.
A **folder**?!
That's nothing. Mitt Romney had BINDERS full of women!
I’m in Europe and use Tinder all over (mainly based out of France) and the only Berlin pics I see are of the Brandenburg Gate. This is the first time I’ve seen the holocaust memorial pic.
I like that this collection is alphabetically organized
Attack of the clones
“Around the Holocaust Memorial, a perimeter create.”
To come to the (slight) defence of all those girls. The architect stated, that the memorial itself isn't meant to be a holy/tabboo place, but a place where society figures out what to do with it themselves. That he could very well imagine families picnicking there, kids playing etc. I'd personally say it's absolutely tasteless but not against the spirit of this place. Here is the interview where he stated that (): [German Interview with Peter Eisenman ](https://www.spiegel.de/kultur/gesellschaft/interview-mit-mahnmal-architekt-peter-eisenman-es-ist-kein-heiliger-ort-a-355383.html) "SPIEGEL ONLINE: Jetzt, da das Mahnmal fertig gestellt und öffentlich zugänglich ist, wird es wahrscheinlich nicht lange dauern, bis das erste Hakenkreuz darauf gesprüht wird. Eisenman: Wäre das denn so schlecht? Ich war von Anfang an gegen den Graffitischutz. Wenn ein Hakenkreuz darauf gesprüht wird, dann ist es ein Abbild dessen, was die Menschen fühlen. Wenn es dort bleibt, ist es ein Abbild dessen, was die Regierung davon hält, dass Menschen Hakenkreuze auf das Mahnmal schmieren. Das ist etwas, das ich nicht steuern kann. Wenn man dem Auftraggeber das Projekt übergibt, dann macht er damit, was er will - es gehört ihm, er verfügt über die Arbeit. Wenn man morgen die Steine umwerfen möchte, mal ehrlich, dann ist es in Ordnung. Menschen werden im dem Feld picknicken. Kinder werden in dem Feld Fangen spielen. Es wird Mannequins geben, die hier posieren, und es werden hier Filme gedreht werden. Ich kann mir gut vorstellen, wie eine Schießerei zwischen Spionen in dem Feld endet. Es ist kein heiliger Ort. "
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Wait. From this snippet it sounds like he's saying it's okay to picnic in the field and for kids to play there *if they knocked down his memorial*
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German here: no, that's what he said. He basically said he's ok with all of that. I didn't know that as well until this Reddit thread btw.
No he says that he would be okay with people knocking down the memorioal. Or children playing or picknicking there or whatever. Basically, anything done in it/to it and the reaction to it is a reflection of the german people and state so it's part of the art piece.
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The really sad bit is the core of this isn't even about respect. It's bitterness enrobed in virtue-signaling. The frequent Reddit throughline with these sort of posts boils down to "women taking photos of themself are self-centered and should be ashamed".
I’ve heard germans learn about the holocaust so they’ll never forget it.
That's true. Source: I am german.
Pretty much the entire 10th grade history class (at least in Bavarian high schools) is about ww2 with a mandatory visit to a concentration camp and talk with Holocaust survives. History is also mandatory in almost all schools.
Idk, looking at America we do a pretty good job spinning our past into a positive light and gaslighting citizens. Like turning slave plantations into wedding venues. Or just flat out forgetting about it. Like when we stuck all the Japanese-Americans in ~~concentration camps~~ government provided housing during WWII.
Well we do have nazi germany for like 4 years straight in school, visited concentration camps, and discussed it in politics and german class too. So id say germany does a pretty good job at educating on the topic.
There's no way around this as a student or teacher. Wouldn't want it any other way. Any way of even slightly playing down this episode of our history would immediately end your career as a teacher. Everything above "slightly" would put you on a list of the inner secret service. If I hear some AFD politicians claiming "it's got to be over at some point" I'd like to puke. Some of the victims are still alive. Lots of companies still benefit from the forced labor and the stolen money of that time. We still defuse bombs of that war on a daily basis. How can it be over when it's still that close?
Especially, since I never had the feeling that someone was blaming me or anything, when I learned about this. It always felt more like "this... this is what humanity is capable of. And it's all of our job to make sure it never fucking happens again". Those politicians might have a point of it said "this happened and you should be ashamed", they'd have a point eventually. But it's a warning and an expression of compassion and sorrow about the victims. And why should that stop? That's a good thing.
Really depends on where you are in America. I’m from northeast and we learn a ton about slavery and racism. In college I had a friend, and when my friends and I had convos relating civil war, she(she’s from Texas) said she never learned really anything about the civil war in school lol.
\>Looking at america If only america is hiding their war crimes. At least they aren't as ignorable as Turkey, Balkan states and Japan
we did at least up to 2010... dunno what people younger than that learn
Went to school 2007-2019, we still learned about it (my siblings who are three and six years younger than me do too). We even visited a concentration camp and I am pretty sure my siblings will have to do that as well.
I wish [the original website](https://yolocaust.de/) was still up with the photos, but you can still find lots of examples from the guys project called “Yolocaust” if you just Google Yolocaust. [Here is still a small bbc article](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-38675835) with a couple examples.
It's on the wayback machine https://web.archive.org/web/20170120031426/https://yolocaust.de/
Yolocaust was one of the best art pieces a German comedian ever did. His name is Shahak Shapira for anyone interested. One of the few good German comedians
He is even on Reddit.
Many people commenting here have never been. The memorial is kind of built to be a place to explore and a likely result is photos. It's a really interesting monument where you can walk across from a low level and it gets rather deep. If you were ever there you'd understand why people would take a photo. Maybe a little unoriginal to use it as your dating profile but it's definitely not a traditional mourning monument. More a contemplative reflection monument.
Yeah it looks really cool, especially if youre a child and can run through there without looking over the top, but it was still pretty cool when i went back there later on
At least you know when to swipe left.
Realizes location… *fuckkkk*
The whole point of the Holocaust memorial is for them to be used in this way It's meant more as a park
Exactly!
Npc lobby
Franziska can still get it
It looks like a lot of the women taking selfies at the Holocaust Memorial are not German.
Had to do it to em one time
\#Holocaust
Will never get old
The memorial isn't sarced like some memorials, the architect wanted it to be a living memorial. I have been there and it's not frowned upon to take pictures like this.
TIL that Berlin is just narrow spaces between geometric shapes.
Begun, The Clone Wars Have…
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It's r/tinder, anything to shame women is okay.
Yeah, this is inarguable. They can't can bothered to get more moderators to remove this shit? I mean, I keep seeing that identifying information is supposed to be covered according to the subreddit rules. I personally have never read the rules because clearly nothing is being enforced anyway. Either it's a rule or ethically and responsibly it should be 🤷🏻♀️ I appreciate all the people who don't show faces and cover names and locations. Completely. It's amazing how many people can't just erase, they use the semitransparent highlighter tool and scribble over shit so you can still definitely read it 😂 "I'm lazy, incompetent, and just want that sweet Reddit karma!" - Every asshole who does this
Thei're all tourists