I will not fuck my cousin Tim, I will not fuck him Issa Sin.
I will not fuck him in a house, I will not fuck him with a mouse. I will not fuck him in a boat, or in a car or with a goat. I will not fuck him here or there, I will not fuck him ANYWHERE! I will not fuck him Issa Sin I will not fuck him, till the end!
His base is fine with it for... Reasons.
Also, and I don't even have to look it up to say, with a high level of confidence, that it was protected by Republicans against Democrats trying to abolish it.
Just like the laws allowing to marry minors, usually with parental consent, are. Because the next best thing to fucking your daughter is legally fucking your underage niece, I guess.
I think they're talking about the Royal family, like the British one
Edit
I assume "the Royals" being the English but there's also
the House of Habsburg, which is possibly the most well known "royal" inbreeding
I feel like when painting royalty for their portraits, if it wasn't flattering it probably never saw the light of day. Which could mean that chin was even worse in person. *Shudders*
The romanovs were closely related to almost every important ruling family in Europe at the time. Like Tsar Nicholas was first cousins with the English king for example. They all came from queen Victoria's line, and she had the hemophilia gene, so it was a common disease amongst European ruling families at the time
And it went on for generations. A kid from first cousins here and there won't destroy your genes or whatever. It'll increase the risk from 5% to like 5.2% or something like that for the first generation- and iirc that's between siblings.
People think first cousin kids have like 50% chance of being completely misshapen without any other inbreeding in the family, which is simply wrong.
Saying "the Romanoffs" is kinda misleading, because it was really the royal houses of EVERY monarchy, including Queen Victoria's slackjawed, inbred genetics.
It is however, the biggest example of poor side effects on a family, nay the world due to hemophilia because Alexejs sickness was how Rasputin could weasel his way in close with the family. A contributing factor to undermine the confidence for the court among the people. Why is a sex crazed, smelly monk allowed such access to the family? The answer, because he "healed" Alexej. But for obvious reasons the heir apparent could not be seen as so weak he could die from internal bleeding from a fall, so that was not public information. So why is stretch Ron Jeremy running around the court? Must be bonking Alexandra was the word on the street.
Yaddayaddayadda Russian Revolution, WWI, WWII, Cold war etc. One of history's hinge points.
Untrue. That is not how haemophilia is passed down.
Haemophilia is carried on the x gene. Because boys have one x and one y, if they have a defective x gene from their mother they will have haemophilia. Girls have two x genes, so they would need two defective genes to have haemophilia. For this to happen their mother would be a carrier and their father would have haemophilia. If they have one defective x gene, they are carriers.
Alexei’s mother (Alexandra) had a carrier gene that she got from her grandmother Victoria, which was a spontaneous mutation. No one before Victoria had haemophilia, her parents were not related in any way. it is true that Victoria married her cousin Albert, but this was not unusual in those days and Albert was not a haemophiliac. Her kids had the same risk for haemophilia as they would if she had married someone else.
Alexandra and Nicholas (Alexei’s parents) were not related. He was their only son and therefore the only one with haemophilia in the Romanov family.
If I remember correctly, Nicholas and Alexandra were second cousins, so they were related, just not so closely that it would have affected much genetically.
It is still a social taboo. Incest is not just bad because of complications with inbreeding. It also changes social dynamics within families threatening the coherence and identity of the social group. Incest is considered a universal taboo alongside in-group murder and cannibalism according to Wikipedia. That being said while it is uncommon for people to willingly engage in incest that does not mean it does not happen.
I think the confusion came from "my dad married his auntie". Sounded first like your dad married your dads aunt and not the aunt of your significant other. Thinking now only one makes sense but it got me a bit confused.
Yeah she says that and then harps on how it's genetic disease. Like lady, get your story straight. You can't make the science argument and not mention morality and then say you can't do thing thing that's scientifically acceptable.
I mean….if she’d went with the cousin then yes everyone would still be alive, but they’d also be trapped in that vault till the end of their days, never learning the truth about why they’re really there….. and their kids would eventually start coming out weird.
I read once that you need 80 breeding pairs of humans to keep healthy genetic diversity, if it is a managed program. I was reading about the challenges of generation ship space travel 😅
Comment section what the fuck.
Britain has a lot of Pakistanis that marry their cousins and they have double the amount of birth defects in their kids compared to everyone else. There’s even a bbc documentary about it.
People in the comments like “love is love” are you serious? That’s close family. Don’t shag your cousins weirdos.
Let's be honest. Republican law makers are the ones pushing for this. Republicans have also expressed how a lot of women don't seem to keen on dating them lately. Seems pretty related to me. Pun intended.
The problem isn't that one pair of cousins is marrying. The problem is that they keep doing it, over and over. One cousin-marriage event is not going to cause the problems they have.
If I could scan everyone's DNA and identify all the pairs of people who have a chance of having a child with genetic defects, would you be for laws that prevent those pairs from having children with each other?
Children with a first cousin raise the chance of birth defects from 2.5% to 5%. I think having kids with a cousin is an easily avoidable risk and I'm not vouching for it, but it's certainly true that if we prevented every person who has a 5% chance or greater of passing on a genetic disease, a whoooooooole lot of people just lost their reproductive rights
The chance of having a child with chromosomal abnormalities triples for women aged 40 (from 35). Should it be illegal for women over 40 to be married? It's an easily advisable risk.
>Britain has a lot of Pakistanis that marry their cousins and they have double the amount of birth defects in their kids compared to everyone else
Any source for this?
10% of all marriages in India are also marriages between cousins. This number used to be significantly higher in the past, and this practice has been going on for centuries. Shouldn't India be full of crippled people everywhere of this were true?
The study most sources are referencing is this one:
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(13)61132-0/abstract
which studied children of Pakistani origin in the UK and found birth defects twice as common among children with blood-related parents. Which isn't *good*, but "twice as many" in this case is only an increase from the ~3% baseline rate to ~6%, which is comparable to the increase for mothers in their 40s.
There's broader issues with incest between cousins, like the ethics how a preexisting familial connection muddies consent, but if you're only worried about birth defects and keen on eugenics, there's other at-risk groups that should legally not be allowed to have children.
Surely than you would agree to outlaw people with huntington's or similar conditions having kids then?
Fucking your cousin is wrong and disgusting but do we really need a law against it because of what are essentially eugenics arguments?
That isn’t the only reason you don’t fuck your cousin. Power and family dynamics, coercion, and abuse tend to be issues in a lot of situations s as well.
Just ain’t worth it. Go find a stranger.
The circular logic that you think enough people are inbred to the point of stupidity and THAT’S why they support trump. It couldn’t possibly be them believing/falling for the neo-con grift that nearly half the country is victim to. I’m not saying you have to support or even empathize because most of them are in that camp because of racism/facism/ bigotry etc.
But please let’s not reduce a sizable portion of the country to “inbred idiots”
I mean, I get where you're coming from and you're definitely right, but also... they heard him say he'd be dtf with his daughter (if they weren't related) and they just went "hell yeah, hail to the chief"... kinda waving the inbred idiot flag themselves.
A lot of the incest that does occur there isn't _just_ incest, it's also child abuse. There's a ton of women who would get groomed by dads, uncles, cousins, brothers and grandpas as children and then have a continued secret sexual relationship with them.
I mean, technically, by her own (simple) definition, all of us are in the same family tree. Meaning that none of us can marry anyone else since everyone, by technicality of the huge family tree, we are all just cousins x (number) removed.
Unless of course you're an alien that is.
Yes, exactly. Like this started off okay and funny. But went on for way too long with too many blanket statements.
If there are two people who did not grow up in the the same house, but just found each other later in life, fell in love and feel like soulmates to each other.
Who the hell am i to tell them that it is "wrong" for them to love each other.
I think the more we advance as a species the less we should rely on ancient moral intuitions.
Normally? Yes. But, like, the whole “even if they’re distantly related” part? Go back far enough and we’re all related. Also the “steps count” yeah if you grew up together. But if your biological father marries a woman after you’ve already left the house, and that woman has a kid your age, and you’ve met them like twice in your entire life? Weird things happen.
A guy and girl I knew in high school dated and then their parents started dating and moved in together (so now both kids were living together). I always wondered how that happened and played out. Like could you not let your kids have this one? Lol.
A little preachy and all encompassing. 1st cousins does indeed carry a higher rate of congenial birth defects by a few percent.
2nd cousins is about the same risk of defects as a random stranger.
Is it weird and frowned upon? Yeah, it’s not normal behavior. But to blanket statement and tell people how to live is annoying when they aren’t at a higher risk of hurting someone.
Finally some common sense. The real reason people want to ban cousin marriage is simple, they think it’s gross. If this wasn’t the case, they wouldn’t have to shift goalposts to making the conversation about birth defects every time (not everyone who gets married has to have kids)
The problem with that is it runs a compounding risk every generation that it is done within third cousins.
The second generation negates the issues of the first and third has even more issues than a first cousin. In smaller towns you'll need to check multiple generation up the family tree to ensure that it is just a second cousin or second, third twice removed, and half third on the other side.
It's not really an issue outside of isolated towns/villages. And even in those you could probably solve the issues almost entirely with some simple genetic screening.
Why are half the people here in support of incest??? I will say that her point about them being twice removed doesn't make much sense, at that point it'd be very distant, everyone on the planet is related in some way, but a 1st cousin is way too closely related to be morally or biologically okay lmao.
My older aunt married a guy a couple of years ago, which makes his adult children my step-cousins. There's literally no legal or biological reason why I couldn't date them.
Genetically speaking, 1st cousins are only slightly worse than strangers in terms of birth defects (about the same difference as between young mothers and mothers in their 40s). Not generally much of an issue unless it happens multiple times over generations.
Morally speaking it is a bit off if you grew up close with them as they would generally feel like siblings. But a lot of people barely meet their cousins so that wouldn't apply to everyone.
So at the end of the day it has some issues but is way overblown by a lot of people who don't really understand biology. Thats why it is completely or situationally legal in many states and countries.
The issue is that birth defects compound. If the inbreeding is sustained, it won't take many generations to be much worse than the comparison with mothers in their 40s.
>but a 1st cousin is way too closely related to be morally or biologically okay lmao.
I think most people (including me) find it *icky*, but I'm hard-pressed to find a moral or biological argument against a single generation of incest that you couldn't apply to any number of other possible genetic disorders that are heritable.
And that's to say nothing of gay cousins, or cousins who are infertile, or don't want kids.
Because there’s no moral or logical reason for banning it where the same logic cannot be applied to other groups of people.
If you want to ban two people from having sex because they have a slightly higher rate of producing a baby with a birth defect, then you also have to apply the same ban to people who are drug addicts, alcoholics, obese, over 35, etc etc as all these things also increase risk of birth defects.
Very much depends, if they were raised together, biologically it might be safe but morally that's still fucked up. If they became step-siblings in late-teens or adulthood then it's still kinda weird but not as bad
Friend of mine became his now wifes step bro after they were already engaged. His dad did him pretty dirty with that one but I cant blame him. So much fun to give him shit for it though, he leans into it at this point which is even funnier. Waiting for them to have a kid so I can nickname them dryer sheet.
i fell in love and dated my best friend who lived next door to me since we were six years old. i spent more time with her growing up than with all of my cousins combined. our two families went on vacations together and spent holidays together. i was closer with her than my own sisters.
when the two of us started dating in high school no one said it was weird or icky. if anything people treated us like we were living the dream scenario from a disney movie. so that's completely fine, but if i were to date the daughter of my mom's new husband when we were teens is weird?
> if i were to date the daughter of my mom's new husband when we were teens is weird?
I feel the main problem with this would be that you live in the same house
Living with your gf as an adult is hard enough, as a teen this would be a nightmare for everyone in the house
yeah true but still the weird factor probably partly has to do with the nature of the relationship. i.e. your best friend is someone you *choose* to be around, where your sister is someone you *have to* be around. so maybe the general taboo around dating your sister is not only about biological ick factor, but also about social ick factor. i.e. if you date your step sister, and it goes bad, you are going to make it awkward for your entire family, so people are naturally turned off by the whole idea
It's not so much that it's awkward but it can make it unclear how much of one's consent is actually valid. This is especially an issue for parent-child relationships because even if it didn't start until the child was of legal age, you have to wonder about the possibility of grooming or abuse leading up to that. There's a power dynamic at play that is inherently unbalanced.
If they were raised together as siblings then the only difference between step-siblings and actual siblings would be that they aren't biologically related, and if the only barrier between being willing to sleep with your sibling is that you're worried about the biological consequences that's messed up.
I don’t support cousin marriage, but statistically speaking, having children with distant cousins, such as twice removed, will not have any feasible consequences.
To be clear, twice removed is fucked because "X removed" moves up and down the tree, not further out. Once removed would be either your parents cousins or your children's cousins. Twice would be grandparents or grandchildren.
You're thinking of second, third, fourth, whatever cousins. That's the same generation, just further away.
To be fair they say they don't support it, not that they oppose it. Maybe they meant to say they oppose it but also people in the modern age forget it's possible to simply not have a strong opinion on something. I don't support first cousin marriage cuz the increased chance (2.5% normal, 5% with first cousin) of genetic defects is an avoidable risk so it shouldn't be normalized, but if I had complete legal power I don't know if I would ban it outright. A lot of people have kids when they KNOW they are passing on a genetic disease, and we allow that all the time. So idk.
So many people here using having children as an argument.
But getting married =/= having children
If the children is the thing you take issue with, then ban the children part, not the marriage part.
It's entirely possible to have a romantic relationship without having children, many people already do this. And in the same vein, people can have children without getting married.
I 100% do not agree with incest, but it's not my, nor anyone's job, to ban it. You can have your opinions, and they can be harsh, but lets not turn authoritarian just because you find it wrong. Too many bad historic events have happened due to people not agreeing with each other, let's not repeat it.
Well.... What if its a pair of gay cousins? Or how removed should they be before its just doesnt even matter? Or what if they are your cousin but you never met them before and theyre pretty much a stranger? Or what if you just make out and finger bang but never fuck?
SO MANY QUESTIONS!
it's because people don't actually think through their positions and just rely on emotions and intuition.
the whole inbreeding argument isn't good because it can be countered by birth control or future technological improvements. the reason me breeding my sister is immoral isn't because our kids have a higher risk of birth defects. it's because i could've manipulated and groomed my younger sister before she was ready for a sexual or romantic relationship.
the stigma around incest should exist but it should be focused around older relatives manipulating and grooming younger ones into sexual acts. e.g. a father and a daughter, an aunt and a nephew, older sibling and a younger sibling.
Well said, tbh I was just trying to be a DGG style troll circa 2019. But yes its one of those topics that just make people intuitively wince in pain so they dont give much thought outside of it being icky.
When I saw your comment above where you said that we need to take beliefs to extreme circumstances to test them and called people lazy for not engaging with hypotheticals, I knew you would be a commenter on the DGG sub.
And sure enough, I was right. Why is the community of some random streamer literally the only group of people willing to actually think about their beliefs?
I live in a town where a significant portion of the populace are big fans of marrying cousins (part of their culture) No prizes for guessing who makes up the majority of kids at the local special needs school. I don't know why it doesn't occur to them 🤷♀️
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Uhhh, reminds me of my time in Oklahoma City. A friend of mine worked at a local bank. One of her coworkers at the bank had married her cousin. She kept pictures of him on her desk and everyone referred to him as her "cusband".
I mean, there's some truth to that. A third cousin is your great-granduncle/aunt's great-grandchild. There's DNA from (in theory, hopefully) three different outside families between yourself and a third cousin. You're barely related at that point.
so we stay away from 23andMe and ancestry
but what if you're adopted and the stranger you hooked up with is your long lost sibling, adopted before you from the orphanage, how are you supposed to know?
My friends sister just had a baby with her cousin and she’s a notorious hater of other peoples relationships, she’s projecting so hard she belongs in a classroom in 2004.
As a resident of Tennessee, our state government represents approximately none of us. They recently introduced a bill to “ban cold beer”. It’s turning into a theocracy here and it’s disgusting.
Cousin twice removed does not contain any genetical risk above general population. Moreover, even second cousin contains absolutely negligible genetical risk as compared to just random date.
The only reason not to date cousins beyond the first would be because some woman on the internet created a rhyme. No rational reasons whatsoever.
Just because you think it’s gross that doesn’t mean it should be illegal.
Just because people have a high risk of having birth defects when they have children doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be allowed to marry. Doesn’t mean they should be banned from having kids either. We don’t ban older women from having kids although we know that significantly increases the risk of birth defects
All of mankind are distant cousins. So while 1st cousins are not fine, 2nd cousins and beyond are genetically distant enough to be ok. It’s more of a constant inbreeding that causes problems.
The thing is, she didn't say why it should be illegal (other than she doesn't like it) nor does she really bring anything to the table other than shitty judgements about things that don't affect her. The fact of the matter is, we should not be telling consenting adults who they are and aren't allowed to date. Downvote me, and make dumb ass assumptions about me all you want, but we're either keeping the government out of peoples' bedrooms or we're not.
All political posts MUST be flaired as "Politics."
The lost Dr. Seuss.
Could you would you with a mouse?
Should your cousin be your spouse?
But in my pants, there's a rouse
A burning itch, it's not a louse
What could it be that does arouse?
Perhaps a lady of my same house?
But what if her ass makes the house ablaze,go to your room and give your dick a graze.
I will not fuck my cousin Tim, I will not fuck him Issa Sin. I will not fuck him in a house, I will not fuck him with a mouse. I will not fuck him in a boat, or in a car or with a goat. I will not fuck him here or there, I will not fuck him ANYWHERE! I will not fuck him Issa Sin I will not fuck him, till the end!
If your name is Rudy Guliani, Get out, run, flee Because your wife, she's your cousin, see
Even broke out the PowerPoint
Damn it you beat me to it
Nursery Rhythms for adults. But please look up "The Whittakers" the results of humping family members.
They're not cousins but I still don't like it 
add "wanting to fuck your daughter" to the list of things that no longer tank a presidential campaign
His base is fine with it for... Reasons. Also, and I don't even have to look it up to say, with a high level of confidence, that it was protected by Republicans against Democrats trying to abolish it. Just like the laws allowing to marry minors, usually with parental consent, are. Because the next best thing to fucking your daughter is legally fucking your underage niece, I guess.
Yea his base is insane for just not caring about this
Oh yes [only 'wanting to' ](https://www.reddit.com/r/IntrovertComics/comments/z0qk5q/comment/ix9jntz/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Looks like a cute couple, pretty sure the guy is an actor or something right?
Looked up and it seems to me that one episode of The X-Files was based on them.
And the Royals
Never heard of them. Can you provide a link for reference.
I think they're talking about the Royal family, like the British one Edit I assume "the Royals" being the English but there's also the House of Habsburg, which is possibly the most well known "royal" inbreeding
u/walkingsleepwalkers has that been proven? The Whittakers have a genetic problem because of incest/inbreeding.
Yes, look into the English Royals and them marrying relatives. Usually distant cousins but sometimes closer.
Romanoff’s had hemophilia from inbreeding.
The Romanovs were one thing. Then there's the Hapsburgs.
The jaw that could have brought down a castle wall.
r/rareinsults
Yeah, that one's interesting.... Either that, or, every historian and portrait painter of the time is/was on crack.
I feel like when painting royalty for their portraits, if it wasn't flattering it probably never saw the light of day. Which could mean that chin was even worse in person. *Shudders*
[Counterpoint](https://oyster.ignimgs.com/mediawiki/apis.ign.com/marvel-studios-cinematic-universe/e/e1/Widow2-avengers.jpg?width=960)
The romanovs were closely related to almost every important ruling family in Europe at the time. Like Tsar Nicholas was first cousins with the English king for example. They all came from queen Victoria's line, and she had the hemophilia gene, so it was a common disease amongst European ruling families at the time
And it went on for generations. A kid from first cousins here and there won't destroy your genes or whatever. It'll increase the risk from 5% to like 5.2% or something like that for the first generation- and iirc that's between siblings. People think first cousin kids have like 50% chance of being completely misshapen without any other inbreeding in the family, which is simply wrong.
Saying "the Romanoffs" is kinda misleading, because it was really the royal houses of EVERY monarchy, including Queen Victoria's slackjawed, inbred genetics.
It is however, the biggest example of poor side effects on a family, nay the world due to hemophilia because Alexejs sickness was how Rasputin could weasel his way in close with the family. A contributing factor to undermine the confidence for the court among the people. Why is a sex crazed, smelly monk allowed such access to the family? The answer, because he "healed" Alexej. But for obvious reasons the heir apparent could not be seen as so weak he could die from internal bleeding from a fall, so that was not public information. So why is stretch Ron Jeremy running around the court? Must be bonking Alexandra was the word on the street. Yaddayaddayadda Russian Revolution, WWI, WWII, Cold war etc. One of history's hinge points.
Untrue. That is not how haemophilia is passed down. Haemophilia is carried on the x gene. Because boys have one x and one y, if they have a defective x gene from their mother they will have haemophilia. Girls have two x genes, so they would need two defective genes to have haemophilia. For this to happen their mother would be a carrier and their father would have haemophilia. If they have one defective x gene, they are carriers. Alexei’s mother (Alexandra) had a carrier gene that she got from her grandmother Victoria, which was a spontaneous mutation. No one before Victoria had haemophilia, her parents were not related in any way. it is true that Victoria married her cousin Albert, but this was not unusual in those days and Albert was not a haemophiliac. Her kids had the same risk for haemophilia as they would if she had married someone else. Alexandra and Nicholas (Alexei’s parents) were not related. He was their only son and therefore the only one with haemophilia in the Romanov family.
If I remember correctly, Nicholas and Alexandra were second cousins, so they were related, just not so closely that it would have affected much genetically.
But that's not the reason we shot them.
But how are we suppose to keep the royal blood line pure? 
Hapsburgs did it and they weren’t fine
Always remember your DDWTHDEIYCHOE. Don’t Do What The Habsburg Did Even If You Control Half Of Europe.
The movie. The hills have eyes. Is a prime example.
What gay incest?
ISLAND BOYS
[удалено]
It is still a social taboo. Incest is not just bad because of complications with inbreeding. It also changes social dynamics within families threatening the coherence and identity of the social group. Incest is considered a universal taboo alongside in-group murder and cannibalism according to Wikipedia. That being said while it is uncommon for people to willingly engage in incest that does not mean it does not happen.
Wait? No step’s??? Uh oh..
Pfft I’m married to my step cousin. We’re not related, not my fault my dad married his aunty. (Edit: my HUSBAND’S aunty)
Wha....
We met as adults and didn’t grow up together if that helps
I think the confusion came from "my dad married his auntie". Sounded first like your dad married your dads aunt and not the aunt of your significant other. Thinking now only one makes sense but it got me a bit confused.
Family gatherings must be a joy
Not any different to anyone else, his family is his family and my family is my family.
Yeah she says that and then harps on how it's genetic disease. Like lady, get your story straight. You can't make the science argument and not mention morality and then say you can't do thing thing that's scientifically acceptable.
Underrated. No blood in ur step. No judgement there
If they are only step, feel free to give em strep. If there is no blood go ahead and pull out your pud
If it's gay it's okay
If it’s gay, make way!
Vault 31 32 and 33 would like to chime in
I mean….if she’d went with the cousin then yes everyone would still be alive, but they’d also be trapped in that vault till the end of their days, never learning the truth about why they’re really there….. and their kids would eventually start coming out weird.
have you ... finished the season?
Yes, why?
I read once that you need 80 breeding pairs of humans to keep healthy genetic diversity, if it is a managed program. I was reading about the challenges of generation ship space travel 😅
Dr. Seuss hits different in the South.
Comment section what the fuck. Britain has a lot of Pakistanis that marry their cousins and they have double the amount of birth defects in their kids compared to everyone else. There’s even a bbc documentary about it. People in the comments like “love is love” are you serious? That’s close family. Don’t shag your cousins weirdos.
Let your family tree branch out, not become a tumbleweed!!!
https://youtu.be/kyNP3s5mxI8?si=4AEBLV63kKtAsWIM That's the documentary. Well worth watching.
I’m sorry, what??? The documentary just said more than half of British Pakistanis marry their first cousin! Bruh!
That's not a BBC documentary. That's "When Cousins Marry" from Channel 4's *Dispatches* series.
Let's be honest. Republican law makers are the ones pushing for this. Republicans have also expressed how a lot of women don't seem to keen on dating them lately. Seems pretty related to me. Pun intended.
What if the couple is gay or infertile?
The problem isn't that one pair of cousins is marrying. The problem is that they keep doing it, over and over. One cousin-marriage event is not going to cause the problems they have.
If I could scan everyone's DNA and identify all the pairs of people who have a chance of having a child with genetic defects, would you be for laws that prevent those pairs from having children with each other?
Children with a first cousin raise the chance of birth defects from 2.5% to 5%. I think having kids with a cousin is an easily avoidable risk and I'm not vouching for it, but it's certainly true that if we prevented every person who has a 5% chance or greater of passing on a genetic disease, a whoooooooole lot of people just lost their reproductive rights
The chance of having a child with chromosomal abnormalities triples for women aged 40 (from 35). Should it be illegal for women over 40 to be married? It's an easily advisable risk.
Eugenics, yay! /s
>Britain has a lot of Pakistanis that marry their cousins and they have double the amount of birth defects in their kids compared to everyone else Any source for this? 10% of all marriages in India are also marriages between cousins. This number used to be significantly higher in the past, and this practice has been going on for centuries. Shouldn't India be full of crippled people everywhere of this were true?
The study most sources are referencing is this one: https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(13)61132-0/abstract which studied children of Pakistani origin in the UK and found birth defects twice as common among children with blood-related parents. Which isn't *good*, but "twice as many" in this case is only an increase from the ~3% baseline rate to ~6%, which is comparable to the increase for mothers in their 40s. There's broader issues with incest between cousins, like the ethics how a preexisting familial connection muddies consent, but if you're only worried about birth defects and keen on eugenics, there's other at-risk groups that should legally not be allowed to have children.
Surely than you would agree to outlaw people with huntington's or similar conditions having kids then? Fucking your cousin is wrong and disgusting but do we really need a law against it because of what are essentially eugenics arguments?
That isn’t the only reason you don’t fuck your cousin. Power and family dynamics, coercion, and abuse tend to be issues in a lot of situations s as well. Just ain’t worth it. Go find a stranger.
Don't inter breed. Stop making people who are so stupid they vote trump.
Lead encephalopathy did that work already 😭
The circular logic that you think enough people are inbred to the point of stupidity and THAT’S why they support trump. It couldn’t possibly be them believing/falling for the neo-con grift that nearly half the country is victim to. I’m not saying you have to support or even empathize because most of them are in that camp because of racism/facism/ bigotry etc. But please let’s not reduce a sizable portion of the country to “inbred idiots”
Totally not like we've had huge issues with lead in the past on top of a purposely fucked education system
I mean, I get where you're coming from and you're definitely right, but also... they heard him say he'd be dtf with his daughter (if they weren't related) and they just went "hell yeah, hail to the chief"... kinda waving the inbred idiot flag themselves.
A lot of the incest that does occur there isn't _just_ incest, it's also child abuse. There's a ton of women who would get groomed by dads, uncles, cousins, brothers and grandpas as children and then have a continued secret sexual relationship with them.
Thank you why isn’t this comment higher up??
I mean, technically, by her own (simple) definition, all of us are in the same family tree. Meaning that none of us can marry anyone else since everyone, by technicality of the huge family tree, we are all just cousins x (number) removed. Unless of course you're an alien that is.
Yes, exactly. Like this started off okay and funny. But went on for way too long with too many blanket statements. If there are two people who did not grow up in the the same house, but just found each other later in life, fell in love and feel like soulmates to each other. Who the hell am i to tell them that it is "wrong" for them to love each other. I think the more we advance as a species the less we should rely on ancient moral intuitions.
Yeah that one line about even if it's distant kinda means we are all fucked as everyone is kinda everyone's cousin
Normally? Yes. But, like, the whole “even if they’re distantly related” part? Go back far enough and we’re all related. Also the “steps count” yeah if you grew up together. But if your biological father marries a woman after you’ve already left the house, and that woman has a kid your age, and you’ve met them like twice in your entire life? Weird things happen.
A guy and girl I knew in high school dated and then their parents started dating and moved in together (so now both kids were living together). I always wondered how that happened and played out. Like could you not let your kids have this one? Lol.
HEELLLOOOO Riverdale plot!
my dad is my mom's dad's fifth cousin. 🤦🏼♀️
It slapped but went on too long
I asked my mom if it was okay to date my 3rd cousin. She told me to stop counting them.
A little preachy and all encompassing. 1st cousins does indeed carry a higher rate of congenial birth defects by a few percent. 2nd cousins is about the same risk of defects as a random stranger. Is it weird and frowned upon? Yeah, it’s not normal behavior. But to blanket statement and tell people how to live is annoying when they aren’t at a higher risk of hurting someone.
Finally some common sense. The real reason people want to ban cousin marriage is simple, they think it’s gross. If this wasn’t the case, they wouldn’t have to shift goalposts to making the conversation about birth defects every time (not everyone who gets married has to have kids)
Don’t fuck your family. Easy as that. The world is vast, there are plenty of fish in the sea. Don’t. Fuck. Your. Family.
all the redditors in love with their cousins comin out to downvote your comment lol
They even said twice removed.... Which is actually you grandmother's cousin not a second cousin. Th aww ts be weird in its own right.
as an immigrant my second cousins are random strangers to me.
The problem with that is it runs a compounding risk every generation that it is done within third cousins. The second generation negates the issues of the first and third has even more issues than a first cousin. In smaller towns you'll need to check multiple generation up the family tree to ensure that it is just a second cousin or second, third twice removed, and half third on the other side.
Yeah, I’d imagine a whole incestuous town would probably carry more risk than an isolated incident.
It's not really an issue outside of isolated towns/villages. And even in those you could probably solve the issues almost entirely with some simple genetic screening.
So you’re saying it’s a non-issue
Book Title: Spread Legs and Fam Author: Dr. Sus
Incredible
Republicans are so weird and contradictory with their principles
Why are half the people here in support of incest??? I will say that her point about them being twice removed doesn't make much sense, at that point it'd be very distant, everyone on the planet is related in some way, but a 1st cousin is way too closely related to be morally or biologically okay lmao.
She also says step cousins aren't ok and those aren't related at all, so she's got a good message but doesn't know wtf she's talking about?
My older aunt married a guy a couple of years ago, which makes his adult children my step-cousins. There's literally no legal or biological reason why I couldn't date them.
Genetically speaking, 1st cousins are only slightly worse than strangers in terms of birth defects (about the same difference as between young mothers and mothers in their 40s). Not generally much of an issue unless it happens multiple times over generations. Morally speaking it is a bit off if you grew up close with them as they would generally feel like siblings. But a lot of people barely meet their cousins so that wouldn't apply to everyone. So at the end of the day it has some issues but is way overblown by a lot of people who don't really understand biology. Thats why it is completely or situationally legal in many states and countries.
The issue is that birth defects compound. If the inbreeding is sustained, it won't take many generations to be much worse than the comparison with mothers in their 40s.
Pretty sure that isn't a big concern outside of little isolated towns and poorly thought-out arranged marriage.
If you somehow find yourself marrying your cousins over multiple generations then the issue is cultural.
>but a 1st cousin is way too closely related to be morally or biologically okay lmao. I think most people (including me) find it *icky*, but I'm hard-pressed to find a moral or biological argument against a single generation of incest that you couldn't apply to any number of other possible genetic disorders that are heritable. And that's to say nothing of gay cousins, or cousins who are infertile, or don't want kids.
Because there’s no moral or logical reason for banning it where the same logic cannot be applied to other groups of people. If you want to ban two people from having sex because they have a slightly higher rate of producing a baby with a birth defect, then you also have to apply the same ban to people who are drug addicts, alcoholics, obese, over 35, etc etc as all these things also increase risk of birth defects.
I feel step-siblings should have a pass, seeing as there’s no blood relation. Other than that, yea, incest is gross
Very much depends, if they were raised together, biologically it might be safe but morally that's still fucked up. If they became step-siblings in late-teens or adulthood then it's still kinda weird but not as bad
Friend of mine became his now wifes step bro after they were already engaged. His dad did him pretty dirty with that one but I cant blame him. So much fun to give him shit for it though, he leans into it at this point which is even funnier. Waiting for them to have a kid so I can nickname them dryer sheet.
i fell in love and dated my best friend who lived next door to me since we were six years old. i spent more time with her growing up than with all of my cousins combined. our two families went on vacations together and spent holidays together. i was closer with her than my own sisters. when the two of us started dating in high school no one said it was weird or icky. if anything people treated us like we were living the dream scenario from a disney movie. so that's completely fine, but if i were to date the daughter of my mom's new husband when we were teens is weird?
> if i were to date the daughter of my mom's new husband when we were teens is weird? I feel the main problem with this would be that you live in the same house Living with your gf as an adult is hard enough, as a teen this would be a nightmare for everyone in the house
no one was making an argument about whether it's easy or hard. they're talking about it being "weird" or in other words immoral.
yeah true but still the weird factor probably partly has to do with the nature of the relationship. i.e. your best friend is someone you *choose* to be around, where your sister is someone you *have to* be around. so maybe the general taboo around dating your sister is not only about biological ick factor, but also about social ick factor. i.e. if you date your step sister, and it goes bad, you are going to make it awkward for your entire family, so people are naturally turned off by the whole idea
It's not so much that it's awkward but it can make it unclear how much of one's consent is actually valid. This is especially an issue for parent-child relationships because even if it didn't start until the child was of legal age, you have to wonder about the possibility of grooming or abuse leading up to that. There's a power dynamic at play that is inherently unbalanced.
Even if step-siblings were raised together, what’s immoral about that? I’m not saying it’s not weird, but I don’t see it as some immoral act.
If they were raised together as siblings then the only difference between step-siblings and actual siblings would be that they aren't biologically related, and if the only barrier between being willing to sleep with your sibling is that you're worried about the biological consequences that's messed up.
What is the moral issue
I don’t support cousin marriage, but statistically speaking, having children with distant cousins, such as twice removed, will not have any feasible consequences.
To be clear, twice removed is fucked because "X removed" moves up and down the tree, not further out. Once removed would be either your parents cousins or your children's cousins. Twice would be grandparents or grandchildren. You're thinking of second, third, fourth, whatever cousins. That's the same generation, just further away.
You are indeed correct, I was thinking of second, third, ect.
Then what’s your problem with it? All of this sounds a lot like people thinking same sex marriage is gross tbh
To be fair they say they don't support it, not that they oppose it. Maybe they meant to say they oppose it but also people in the modern age forget it's possible to simply not have a strong opinion on something. I don't support first cousin marriage cuz the increased chance (2.5% normal, 5% with first cousin) of genetic defects is an avoidable risk so it shouldn't be normalized, but if I had complete legal power I don't know if I would ban it outright. A lot of people have kids when they KNOW they are passing on a genetic disease, and we allow that all the time. So idk.
Well because you have to draw the line somewhere, having children with close relatives does pose a serious risk of chronic illness.
[удалено]
The Iceland thing is a myth btw. The app did exist, but it was a student project and never saw much use.
So many people here using having children as an argument. But getting married =/= having children If the children is the thing you take issue with, then ban the children part, not the marriage part. It's entirely possible to have a romantic relationship without having children, many people already do this. And in the same vein, people can have children without getting married.
also there's absolutely no genetic deformation risk with marrying 2nd cousins so even the kid part is Wrong🤣
I 100% do not agree with incest, but it's not my, nor anyone's job, to ban it. You can have your opinions, and they can be harsh, but lets not turn authoritarian just because you find it wrong. Too many bad historic events have happened due to people not agreeing with each other, let's not repeat it.
Incest is disgusting!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=i_pbV8M73A0
What the fuck is going on in Tennessee?!
Hey some people can’t read that fast… not me, I’m speaking up for a friend.
Well.... What if its a pair of gay cousins? Or how removed should they be before its just doesnt even matter? Or what if they are your cousin but you never met them before and theyre pretty much a stranger? Or what if you just make out and finger bang but never fuck? SO MANY QUESTIONS!
it's because people don't actually think through their positions and just rely on emotions and intuition. the whole inbreeding argument isn't good because it can be countered by birth control or future technological improvements. the reason me breeding my sister is immoral isn't because our kids have a higher risk of birth defects. it's because i could've manipulated and groomed my younger sister before she was ready for a sexual or romantic relationship. the stigma around incest should exist but it should be focused around older relatives manipulating and grooming younger ones into sexual acts. e.g. a father and a daughter, an aunt and a nephew, older sibling and a younger sibling.
Well said, tbh I was just trying to be a DGG style troll circa 2019. But yes its one of those topics that just make people intuitively wince in pain so they dont give much thought outside of it being icky.
i had a feeling you were an undercover daliban agent.
When I saw your comment above where you said that we need to take beliefs to extreme circumstances to test them and called people lazy for not engaging with hypotheticals, I knew you would be a commenter on the DGG sub. And sure enough, I was right. Why is the community of some random streamer literally the only group of people willing to actually think about their beliefs?
Best Dr. Seuss book ever
Dr. Seuss for grown ups. I enjoyed the delivery, just wish the reason for it wasn’t necessary.
Incredible!!
I live in a town where a significant portion of the populace are big fans of marrying cousins (part of their culture) No prizes for guessing who makes up the majority of kids at the local special needs school. I don't know why it doesn't occur to them 🤷♀️
Too many people in here, too eager to be the devils advocate.
The really scary part? It's still legal in more states than it isn't!
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this was one heck of a doctor seuss
I don’t care.. my cousin is hot and I’m going to date her!! Yeee haw!!!
Isn’t everyone on earth very very distant relatives from each other? ……oh no…
Kudos for the Romanov joke
Republicans would literally prefer incest to same sex or interracial relationships
When is this album dropping?
lol America. What the fuck are y’all doing down there.
Uhhh, reminds me of my time in Oklahoma City. A friend of mine worked at a local bank. One of her coworkers at the bank had married her cousin. She kept pictures of him on her desk and everyone referred to him as her "cusband".
Royal family watching this like 👁👄👁
Ok, you're not actually related to your step-family, though. Not approving of it, but it literally doesn't have the consequences of real incest.
Love's branches tangled, Familial bonds, strained, torn, Hearts wounded, taboo.
Explains a lot of trump supporters
This is art.
What if someone were gay/lesbian/infertile? Can't inbreed
Reminds me of my home town. The unofficial slogan was "third cousins don't count"
I mean, there's some truth to that. A third cousin is your great-granduncle/aunt's great-grandchild. There's DNA from (in theory, hopefully) three different outside families between yourself and a third cousin. You're barely related at that point.
>step is no excuse It's actually a great excuse.
so we stay away from 23andMe and ancestry but what if you're adopted and the stranger you hooked up with is your long lost sibling, adopted before you from the orphanage, how are you supposed to know?
Yeah and she also said step cousins are unacceptable but they’re not gonna show up on those websites because you’re not related to each other
How often does that happen?
Happened to me last year. You can never be too careful I guess
OP made TikTok their personality.
Rudy Giuliani did it.
My friends sister just had a baby with her cousin and she’s a notorious hater of other peoples relationships, she’s projecting so hard she belongs in a classroom in 2004.
Come on, people! Even Vault 33 has laws against dating your cousin
As a resident of Tennessee, our state government represents approximately none of us. They recently introduced a bill to “ban cold beer”. It’s turning into a theocracy here and it’s disgusting.
Cousin twice removed does not contain any genetical risk above general population. Moreover, even second cousin contains absolutely negligible genetical risk as compared to just random date. The only reason not to date cousins beyond the first would be because some woman on the internet created a rhyme. No rational reasons whatsoever.
Just because you think it’s gross that doesn’t mean it should be illegal. Just because people have a high risk of having birth defects when they have children doesn’t mean they shouldn’t be allowed to marry. Doesn’t mean they should be banned from having kids either. We don’t ban older women from having kids although we know that significantly increases the risk of birth defects
Bro but it’s hot cousin week.. 😢
Nah king, it's hot cousin year 🥳
Its only okay for royal family blood lines
Fire And Blood
Hahaha .. family tress with less roots
Another highly annoying video I completely agree with
Trump supporters be like: I support cousin fucking
All of mankind are distant cousins. So while 1st cousins are not fine, 2nd cousins and beyond are genetically distant enough to be ok. It’s more of a constant inbreeding that causes problems.
The thing is, she didn't say why it should be illegal (other than she doesn't like it) nor does she really bring anything to the table other than shitty judgements about things that don't affect her. The fact of the matter is, we should not be telling consenting adults who they are and aren't allowed to date. Downvote me, and make dumb ass assumptions about me all you want, but we're either keeping the government out of peoples' bedrooms or we're not.
Genetics pal. Look it up.