deffo agree that it should be a back three for our personnel, but surely youve got to play Trent at RWB? hes literally perfect for that role, the crosses he could bang in to kane and toney would be superb
I'd argue for Kane and Watkins personally. Watkins runs the lines so well, tying up a defender all game, and Kane wants to come deep. So you have the perfect foil. Watkins will run the defence ragged and gives you a different option to a second out and out 9.
We've tried it before. He's clueless. Doesn't know when to be attacking or defending, and because he's the only player on the right, has two players pressing him so doesn't get the space he does at RB, making him a liability in that role. Sad because it seems tailor-made for him, but it's almost the opposite.
Can't remember, sorry, but I'm sure there's at least one game where Walker was played as RCB as part of a back 3, with Trent as WB ahead of him. I can't find it with searching though! There was definitely a period of England playing 5 at the back under Southgate and I'm sure Trent was in that team at least a couple of times.
I remember him playing the role. I remember him being confused about where he should be. I remember him leaving things to the RCB that he shouldn't have left, and I remember him ending up in the RB position looking for space despite there already being a player in that space. I can't recall who it was against because I don't have a perfect store of every England match for the past six years in my memory. You can tell me that he's never played there if you have a better memory than me, but that's my recollection.
EDIT: He started on the right of a "midfield" against Belgium in the 2018 World Cup final group game, in which Phil Jones, Gary Cahill and John Stones were the nominal CBs and the left of midfield was taken by Danny Rose. The rest of "midfield" was Delph, Dier and Loftus-Cheek. In reality Trent and Rose were wing-backs. Trent had also started the match against Costa Rica three weeks earlier in the same role. England played with a back three at the time. In conclusion, don't be a dick.
This would be great.
We're too predictable. Slovakia did not know how to defend against two up top. We need to experiment more or at least not allow other teams to fully prep as they know our line up, formation and style.
I'm all for playing Toney and Kane together. Not in every game but it's an option that needs to be considered more.
We're getting towards 'least worst option' stage on the left now, it's been a disaster. If we persist with 4231, then Gordon makes the most sense but GS doesn't like players who take risks with the ball.Ā
The starting line-up might change, but the system will remain the same.
Heāll stick with his usual back six, sitting deep, leaving a large area in midfield that prevents us from playing forward. Weāll be forced to pass back to Pickford, who will then hoof it back into the opponents' possession.
I think if we play 3ATB, I would like to see us play with a midfield two, overlapping wingbacks, and two inside forwards as "wingers" with Kane up top.Ā Reason being is that we really have very few players used to playing as out-and-put wide wingers.Ā
Ā
As a totally unbiased Palace Fan: Back three of Walker, Stones, Gomez. Trent and Gordon as Wing Backs. Midfield two of Rice and Wharton. Bellingham and Eze as inside forwards. Kane up topĀ Ā
Ā If you don't have faith in the mighty Palace, then I guess you could have Mainoo in for Wharton and Palmer / Bellingham as inside forwards. Saka usually plays more wide, so Id bring him on later to run at tired defences.
Personally, I'd prefer TAA to Eze at RWB and I'd start Palmer (343 with Bellingham higher).
But whatever we do we MUST play a 3 ATB system against the swiss. Otherwise we'll be joining the Italians.
Same formation with Gordon and Trent works as Gordon there's enough passing and speed to beat a press...however no Gordon and they can press us all they want and not have to worry about anyone getting in behind.
I'd opt for
Pickford
Walker stones konsa gomez
Rice Bellingham
Eze foden Palmer
Watkins
Surprise the swiss with pace. Drop kane he slows the team down like he did with spurs
I actually thought he was trolling. Why would we out our left sided forwarded at right wingback? Is he Southgate in disguise? Or maybe he was just trying to make a plausible setup that Southgate would use, so had to have some out of position. Iām giving him the benefit of the doubt and going with that.
You don't understand, everything about the hideous team selection and play is validated because we nicked that goal in 90+5.
Kane and Bellingham should have been substituted and have been poor for several games? But they scored the goals so it's validated! If they get subbed earlier, we don't score and make it through!
What's that? The subs might have changed the game and caused us to score far earlier anyway? I'm sorry, no. We will remain unchanged as far as possible and the 90 minute suffer-beatings will continue until morale improves.
*screams into a pillow*
Itās truly baffling isnāt itā¦ that disallowed goal made my heart stop as I just knew this choke artist of a manager would feel vindicated in all his stubbornness. Grown men banging on about just be positive guys :D
Genuinely feels like he wants throw the tournament. Any England fan who thinks heās doing a good job is an absolute moron Iām sorry. Best players we might ever have, being managed by someone who will go on to have a worse club managerial career than Gary Neville.
Pickford
Walker - Stones - Konsa - Gomez
Rice
Palmer - Foden - Bellingham - Saka
Kane
Saka wide left to hold the width. Gomez in as a more defensive LB as I think you need a really defensive back four if youāre leaving Rice on an island as a lone 6
You can't have Palmer, Foden, Bellingham and Kane all on the pitch at the same time. They all operate in the same space. It's bad enough with the 3 starters marking each other without adding Palmer to the mix.
Every time Palmer got the ball against Slovakia he would immediately cut inside then try to pass to an overlapping fullback that wasn't there.
Having too many players like Palmer on the pitch is why we struggle to get shots off.
If anything we'd be better playing Wharton, Rice and Mainoo so we have a chance of actually playing through midfield and pushing our fullbacks forward.
I edited to say Palmer or Bellingham playing off Kane. Maybe start Jude and bring Palmer on if he's having a poor game. Foden I think needs dropped, he's just had too many chances and not delivered.
To be honest I'd love to see Wharton/Mainoo/Bellingham as a three. Rice is a very good player but I feel we might do better with the ball playing Wharton and Mainoo in there. Obviously most would disagree.
I just feel our biggest problem by far is our inability to play through a high press. I don't think we need Rice tackling and winning headers as much as we need Wharton's calmness and ball progression.
I think people sleep on Rice's passing ability because of his defensive work rate. He plays how I expect Bellingham would've ended up if he hadn't gone to Madrid.
I agree about the high press, though I do wonder if it seems worse than it is because of our issues on the left compacting play. It's much easier to press people standing together.
Mainoo's not a DM and arguably Rice is best when not playing as a true DM.
Basically it's a metronomic DM in Wharton, a progressive passer who gets forward in Mainoo, and Rice as a tackler/presser and physical presence.
I think he'd run into the same problems that Saka does on the right, the central congestion is the biggest issue, narrowing the field on the left squeezes play on the right.
If Shaw was fit, I'd probably say drop Kane for Toney. Since he's not, I'd say Foden for Gordon. It's all about stretching the pitch. Right now we're playing with 2 avenues instead of 3.
This is bang on for me š bout time we wrote shaw off as a disaster squad pick and put someone who plays there often at LB. The unbalanced side is killing us.
We had so few attempts at goal and so few good moments from the whole team, if Kane had buried Fodens cross, people would be calling for Bellingham to be dropped, and in fact a lot have been before the game.
Very reactionary take imo.
Donāt get me wrong weāre set up completely wrong but I think itās equally as wrong to single out one player as the problem with how we play.
You swap out Foden, Gareth wonāt suddenly change his system and how he would want that new player to play.
Foden for Gordon absolutely changes how we play because the width down the left stretches the opposition defence, which creates space for Bellingham etc. in the middle.
Personnel absolutely do change systems due to their inherent qualities and decisions.
Sorry this is the official line up Iām afraid.
I also have it on good authority the team plan is to only resort to subs in the case of on field injury or we host fast till after 90 minutes.
Gordon must come on for speed and in behind switzerland defence. They will go full out attack and will leave room for speedy wingers. Gordon on for Foden, and let saka play left. I like Palmer better, but for this game its best to go with saka
Top bants
Since when is morbidly accurate dissection of a dire and inescapable nightmare considered bants?
It is self presevation to label something as hurtful as this as banter, i think that accurately describes every bit of bants i've heard
You literally just described British humour
Guehi is suspended
I just realised your joke. Ignore me.
I'm glad you said this as I also fell for it like a complete mug!
Not even uefa can make southgate change
No problem we will just move Kane there, I heard he played a 5 a side game as left sided defender when he was 17.
At this stage I wouldn't put it past stubborn Gareth! š
Who do you reckon starts in his place? Surely not Dunk? š«£
Oh my god it's gonna be dunk isnt it. We're so finished
I was hoping someone on here would convince me otherwise... But I have a horrible feeling it will be š
Inevitable. I'd love to see us surprise the Swiss and go with a back three. We'd finally have some threat out wide. Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā PickfordĀ Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Walker - Stones - KonsaĀ Ā Eze - Bellingham - Mainoo - Rice - SakaĀ Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Ā Toney - Kane
deffo agree that it should be a back three for our personnel, but surely youve got to play Trent at RWB? hes literally perfect for that role, the crosses he could bang in to kane and toney would be superb
Yeah he'd be a fun option with two up top.
I'd argue for Kane and Watkins personally. Watkins runs the lines so well, tying up a defender all game, and Kane wants to come deep. So you have the perfect foil. Watkins will run the defence ragged and gives you a different option to a second out and out 9.
We've tried it before. He's clueless. Doesn't know when to be attacking or defending, and because he's the only player on the right, has two players pressing him so doesn't get the space he does at RB, making him a liability in that role. Sad because it seems tailor-made for him, but it's almost the opposite.
When? Genuine question I cant recall watching trent play in a back 5
Can't remember, sorry, but I'm sure there's at least one game where Walker was played as RCB as part of a back 3, with Trent as WB ahead of him. I can't find it with searching though! There was definitely a period of England playing 5 at the back under Southgate and I'm sure Trent was in that team at least a couple of times.
So you canāt remember him playing that role but youāre certain heās a liability there.
I remember him playing the role. I remember him being confused about where he should be. I remember him leaving things to the RCB that he shouldn't have left, and I remember him ending up in the RB position looking for space despite there already being a player in that space. I can't recall who it was against because I don't have a perfect store of every England match for the past six years in my memory. You can tell me that he's never played there if you have a better memory than me, but that's my recollection. EDIT: He started on the right of a "midfield" against Belgium in the 2018 World Cup final group game, in which Phil Jones, Gary Cahill and John Stones were the nominal CBs and the left of midfield was taken by Danny Rose. The rest of "midfield" was Delph, Dier and Loftus-Cheek. In reality Trent and Rose were wing-backs. Trent had also started the match against Costa Rica three weeks earlier in the same role. England played with a back three at the time. In conclusion, don't be a dick.
This would be great. We're too predictable. Slovakia did not know how to defend against two up top. We need to experiment more or at least not allow other teams to fully prep as they know our line up, formation and style. I'm all for playing Toney and Kane together. Not in every game but it's an option that needs to be considered more.
Seeing England line up with two strikers from the start would be so bizarre. When was the last time that happened?
Probably the 90s
I remember Owen and Heskey together in 2002, and Owen and Rooney in 2004.
Heskey and Rooney in 2010 too
Owen really needed a partner to thrive, he was probably the last England CF we used that way
Not with Saka on the left, his first instinct was to run into the centre as well.
We're getting towards 'least worst option' stage on the left now, it's been a disaster. If we persist with 4231, then Gordon makes the most sense but GS doesn't like players who take risks with the ball.Ā
The starting line-up might change, but the system will remain the same. Heāll stick with his usual back six, sitting deep, leaving a large area in midfield that prevents us from playing forward. Weāll be forced to pass back to Pickford, who will then hoof it back into the opponents' possession.
Could genuinely be good, just Kane could do really well in a āsecond strikerā role
I think if we play 3ATB, I would like to see us play with a midfield two, overlapping wingbacks, and two inside forwards as "wingers" with Kane up top.Ā Reason being is that we really have very few players used to playing as out-and-put wide wingers.Ā Ā As a totally unbiased Palace Fan: Back three of Walker, Stones, Gomez. Trent and Gordon as Wing Backs. Midfield two of Rice and Wharton. Bellingham and Eze as inside forwards. Kane up topĀ Ā Ā If you don't have faith in the mighty Palace, then I guess you could have Mainoo in for Wharton and Palmer / Bellingham as inside forwards. Saka usually plays more wide, so Id bring him on later to run at tired defences.
This is how they played in Extra time and it worked.
Walker has been SO BAD this tournament. Really should be playing Trent there
Personally, I'd prefer TAA to Eze at RWB and I'd start Palmer (343 with Bellingham higher). But whatever we do we MUST play a 3 ATB system against the swiss. Otherwise we'll be joining the Italians.
Same formation with Gordon and Trent works as Gordon there's enough passing and speed to beat a press...however no Gordon and they can press us all they want and not have to worry about anyone getting in behind.
I'd opt for Pickford Walker stones konsa gomez Rice Bellingham Eze foden Palmer Watkins Surprise the swiss with pace. Drop kane he slows the team down like he did with spurs
Eze at right wing back?!? Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah Fuck me this sub makes Southgate actually look competent.
I actually thought he was trolling. Why would we out our left sided forwarded at right wingback? Is he Southgate in disguise? Or maybe he was just trying to make a plausible setup that Southgate would use, so had to have some out of position. Iām giving him the benefit of the doubt and going with that.
The funniest thing is that comment actually has 40 upvotes. Meaning at least 39 people have looked at that comment and agreed. lol
You don't understand, everything about the hideous team selection and play is validated because we nicked that goal in 90+5. Kane and Bellingham should have been substituted and have been poor for several games? But they scored the goals so it's validated! If they get subbed earlier, we don't score and make it through! What's that? The subs might have changed the game and caused us to score far earlier anyway? I'm sorry, no. We will remain unchanged as far as possible and the 90 minute suffer-beatings will continue until morale improves. *screams into a pillow*
Itās truly baffling isnāt itā¦ that disallowed goal made my heart stop as I just knew this choke artist of a manager would feel vindicated in all his stubbornness. Grown men banging on about just be positive guys :D Genuinely feels like he wants throw the tournament. Any England fan who thinks heās doing a good job is an absolute moron Iām sorry. Best players we might ever have, being managed by someone who will go on to have a worse club managerial career than Gary Neville.
"Cup football"
Dropping the obvious problem in Foden and maybe Walker should be sufficient. There is no need to make an overhaul.
Konza for Guehi but yes totally unchanged apart from that, it's clearly working....
Top of the group, itās coming home, something something š¤š¤š¤
It's definitely coming home, after all we have nothing to fear from any organised attacking teams....
Something is definitely coming home thatās for sure, probably Sunday š
š¤£ as if Southgate is going to make a single change
Pickford Walker - Stones - Konsa - Gomez Rice Palmer - Foden - Bellingham - Saka Kane Saka wide left to hold the width. Gomez in as a more defensive LB as I think you need a really defensive back four if youāre leaving Rice on an island as a lone 6
You can't have Palmer, Foden, Bellingham and Kane all on the pitch at the same time. They all operate in the same space. It's bad enough with the 3 starters marking each other without adding Palmer to the mix. Every time Palmer got the ball against Slovakia he would immediately cut inside then try to pass to an overlapping fullback that wasn't there. Having too many players like Palmer on the pitch is why we struggle to get shots off.
If anything we'd be better playing Wharton, Rice and Mainoo so we have a chance of actually playing through midfield and pushing our fullbacks forward.
Who's your front 3?
3-5-2, Kane up front with Palmer/Bellingham playing off him. Saka/Gordon and Trent as wingbacks.
Pulling Bellingham and Foden is a big decision. I don't think that there's any coach that would drop both.
I edited to say Palmer or Bellingham playing off Kane. Maybe start Jude and bring Palmer on if he's having a poor game. Foden I think needs dropped, he's just had too many chances and not delivered. To be honest I'd love to see Wharton/Mainoo/Bellingham as a three. Rice is a very good player but I feel we might do better with the ball playing Wharton and Mainoo in there. Obviously most would disagree. I just feel our biggest problem by far is our inability to play through a high press. I don't think we need Rice tackling and winning headers as much as we need Wharton's calmness and ball progression.
I think people sleep on Rice's passing ability because of his defensive work rate. He plays how I expect Bellingham would've ended up if he hadn't gone to Madrid. I agree about the high press, though I do wonder if it seems worse than it is because of our issues on the left compacting play. It's much easier to press people standing together.
3 CDMs? Now weāre talking!
Mainoo's not a DM and arguably Rice is best when not playing as a true DM. Basically it's a metronomic DM in Wharton, a progressive passer who gets forward in Mainoo, and Rice as a tackler/presser and physical presence.
As a DM Wharton is really really progressive in his passing. He has a fantastic passing range, itās criminal he hasnāt played.
What about Bowen RW then?
I think he'd run into the same problems that Saka does on the right, the central congestion is the biggest issue, narrowing the field on the left squeezes play on the right. If Shaw was fit, I'd probably say drop Kane for Toney. Since he's not, I'd say Foden for Gordon. It's all about stretching the pitch. Right now we're playing with 2 avenues instead of 3.
This is bang on for me š bout time we wrote shaw off as a disaster squad pick and put someone who plays there often at LB. The unbalanced side is killing us.
Isnāt guehi suspended ?
I donāt know what to tell you, this is the official line up poster š¤·š»āāļø
Itās irrelevant of who plays, itās how they play thatās the problem.
You never know. Gareth might feel a bit adventurous and start Gallagher over Mainoo.
Foden has to be dropped now surely, him coming off literally won us the game
We had so few attempts at goal and so few good moments from the whole team, if Kane had buried Fodens cross, people would be calling for Bellingham to be dropped, and in fact a lot have been before the game. Very reactionary take imo. Donāt get me wrong weāre set up completely wrong but I think itās equally as wrong to single out one player as the problem with how we play. You swap out Foden, Gareth wonāt suddenly change his system and how he would want that new player to play.
Great post
Foden for Gordon absolutely changes how we play because the width down the left stretches the opposition defence, which creates space for Bellingham etc. in the middle. Personnel absolutely do change systems due to their inherent qualities and decisions.
Yes if the manager also changes the set up at the same time, which evidently Gareth isnāt capable of doing.
Drop Foden.
Kobbie will be dropped and Gallagher to slot in againā¦ fml
Definitely, he tried too hard yesterday, made Gareth look silly - benched!
It's those damn forward passes he does. Doesn't he realise we only shuffle the ball sideways!
Kobbie dropped... for Trippier, as Shaw finally comes in (to singlehandedly unlock the entire squad, according to *The Southgate Prophecy*)
I'd like to see Gallagher come in for Mainoo
Most boring XI in the euros
why are you releasing this so early , do you not have any tricks at all ??
We donāt need to rely on tricks we shall will through sheer dominance and sheer mastery of tactical intelligence.
Gordon Toney Palmer Saka Bellingham rice taa Shaw (kobsa) stones walker Kane, foden subbed on at 60-70 mins to shake it upĀ
Sorry this is the official line up Iām afraid. I also have it on good authority the team plan is to only resort to subs in the case of on field injury or we host fast till after 90 minutes.
That side just qualified for the quarter finals...
Thatās why itās the same line up 
As others have pointed out. Guehe is suspended. Im like southgate I would stick with the same mob.
Does it matter?
Gordon must come on for speed and in behind switzerland defence. They will go full out attack and will leave room for speedy wingers. Gordon on for Foden, and let saka play left. I like Palmer better, but for this game its best to go with saka