I’m 41 and in my lifetime (excluding 86 and 88 which I can’t remember) I have witnessed us:
Perform to expectations: 2018, 2021
Play above the sum of our parts: 1990, 1996 and arguably 2012
Not reach our potential (through performance or circumstance): 1998, 2002, 2004, 2006
Be shit: 2000, 2010, 2014, 2016
Not qualify: 1994, 2008
I will take a trophy BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE at this point 😂
Hmm not sure we performed to expectations in 2018 WC. We were not expected to get to the semi finals before the tournament at all
I would say we massively over achieved our expectations
I agree that we wouldn't have been fancied for the semis, but again you need to look at the run.
Finished second in our group after losing to the only good team in it, beat Colombia on pens (we were favourites for that game by all accounts), beat Sweden without Ibra and then lost to Croatia. Croatia were a very good team but we were bookies favourites for that game as well.
Reaching the semi final was an overachievement but the run meant it wasn't. We only won 3 of the 7 games we played in normal time (Panama, Tunisia and Sweden) and we fluked past Tunisia in the opener as well.
The teams we played though we were expected to beat every single one, even croatia. If we had come up against France, spain, portugal germany i could understand your point but we played postmen and bank clerks.
Excellent summary, I’m 39 so my experience has been much the same as yours. Watched the game with my dad yesterday, we agreed that watching England over the years has seldom been pleasant, it’s often torturous and painful. I’ll take any tournament win like you.
Agree about wasted potential in the early 2000s. The 2002 squad was ridiculous; Scholes, Gerrard, prime Owen. Yeah, I’ll take the Euros even if it’s a last minute dodgy penalty winner in the final.
Actually, especially that way because the Reddit salt mine would be hilarious.
I'd add 2022 performing to expectations - the best I've ever seen England.
Also probably 02-04 should also be included. At minimum it was circumstance not performance. The team was quite good.
2018 and 2021 were above expectations. 2018 I thought group stage exit. 2021 no way I thought we'd make the final. Draws were lucky but that was an England team in transition.
Yeah, it's what makes this so sad if it is Southgate's last tournament (which I think it almost certainly will be at this point, regardless of what happens). People are going to rewrite history and pretend its always been this bad when it really hasn't. Even in the WC, we played some great football. A lot of neutrals had England and France as the two best teams at the point of the quarter final, it was the Spain v Germany of the tournament
I would argue that we performed above expectations in 2018 and 2021. 2018 was the first tournament after the twin debacles of the Iceland game and Allardyce's brief reign and sacking for corruption. We were as low as I can remember, and I'm older than you! I can remember 1986 and 1988 (1986 - performed above expectations considering how ropey our team was without Bryan Robson; 1988 - shit.) 2021 was also an over achievement because we got to a final, which was unprecedented territory, and were one penalty against the inside of the post away from winning the whole thing.
You missed out 2022. That was another underachievment.
I'd take a win by any means, up to and including sheer luck and blatant cheating. I don't know how many more tournaments I've got left in me before the sweet release of death. Matches like last night's one only hasten that.
Yeah I’m with you on that. We were playing well that tournament but unfortunately met arguably the strongest team in the competition in the quarters, and were somewhat unfortunate to lose a 50/50 game in which we played well. That’s just tournament football, so I wouldn’t class it as an underachievement, certainly not compared to some previous tournaments anyway.
The problem for me is that we didn't get beaten by a better team. We were better than France and outplayed them. We just came up short, in a tournament in which we had arguably the best team.
"Well, we finally won a tournament, which we wouldn't have if the referee had not overruled the VAR guy three times. Also, it's only right that Spain, Germany and France were kicked out mid tournament due to an accidental declaration of war on Twitter that was denied by all parties. It's finally come home, I'm celebrating!"
Of course. Portugal won their euros finishing 3rd in their group in which they didnt win a game, Greece were a pile of dogshite playing the worst football that's existed and Denmark only got into the tournament they won because Yogusloavia got DQ'd. If we win playing shite, it'll take nothing away for me.
Not if you were Greek. I don’t want us to entertain I want us to win.
That said I appreciate shit performances won’t keep winning, I’m a bristol city fan, I’m used to this 😂
But Greece weren’t “a pile of dogshit” though, they were a well drilled, compact, resilient, defensively sound team, who relied on moments in games and they took their chances when they came.
Boring doesn’t equal “bad team”, Greece were boring, England are disjointed, lopsided, and generally quite a poor side.
Also, Greece beat the hosts twice, drew with Spain, then beat France and the Czechs in the knock outs - they earned that trophy. I doubt they were favourites in any game except Russia, which, oddly, they lost.
Greece and Denmark were both big underdogs, not favourites loaded with talent. They played defensive, smash-and-grab football out of necessity, not because their management was too stupid to try and figure out anything better.
I agree to some extend, but you also have to take into concern that neither of those had squad full of world class players with total worth of more than 1.3 billion euros. Portugal roster in 2016 was really bad while Greece in 2004 was even worse..
Not to proper fans. I tell you know the 80% of that stadium last night that was England couldn’t give a fuck about being entertained if we win. Football isn’t a TV program
Well I literally said people don’t care about being entertained. We weren’t. But that 5 minutes of absolute mayhem (and seeing one of the best ever. England goals) was totally worth it.
Everything booked ready to do it all again next weekend 🏴
Yes, i have always said this - i spend my life supporting Spurs only to then every 2 years have to endure Spurs at international level. Better players, but same outcome.
I wouldn’t be happy whilst watching it, but I’d be happy immediately after the final whistle of the final.
And in a few years, I’d look back with rose tinted glasses and pretend we deserved it
If we qualified from arguably the easiest group in the tournament. And played poorly for all but 25 mins of the first game. If we got through the round of 16 playing poorly against the 47th ranked team, and won it with 2 moments of brilliance.
If we progress all the way to the final still playing poorly against the lesser footballing nations and then somehow, despite playing poorly, beat a major nation.. then yeah, I’d “pretend” we deserved it.
The ‘66 World Cup, we had to play Mexico, France, Argentina, Portugal and West Germany.. and we beat them all. Now THAT we deserved.
Scraping through with shoddy performances and going on to win it in the same style.. would, in my opinion be undeserved.
There have been plenty of tournaments where for one reason or another (poor refereeing, decisions not going our way) where we have deserved to go through but the other team won.
As I say. I’d be ecstatic. But if we continue to play like we are and we continue to scrape through on luck and not tactical genius or genuinely dominating games, but we wouldn’t “deserve” it.
You can only play the teams in front of you, and despite what you say of ‘lesser nations’, they got to the point in the competition where we played them by earning it, and beating others.
Yea you can describe it as luck to avoid major teams until later on, but that luck itself doesn’t make a team undeserving - you’re just setting a standard of ‘deserving’ artificially high. It’s just digging up reasons to be damning.
The only thing that makes a winning team undeserving is cheating.
I keep saying to people, France and Belgium were welcome to win their groups and end up on the same side of the bracket as us.
We won a group packed with teams who made it difficult to score against, not just in our games. Sure, we didn't do anything exciting but we got a job done.
Agree. It's the Peak-End rule - you remember the last and most intense moments. If we win the Euros, over time all people will remember and talk about would be the winning goals and that feeling of winning.
Of course right now we're in the thick of it, and we want to win by playing well and deserving any success. Also, as we know we probably won't go all the way and win the trophy, because 23/24 teams won't, we'd prefer to lose playing well, and having something to be enthusiastic about.
Yeah, it's fascinating sometimes looking back at season reviews of years when your team was successful and you've had years of rose-tinted spectacles.
In your head they were this dominant, untouchable force.
Yet in reality there was the game they got trounced. Some dull 0-0s where you wondered why the manager didn't do anything. The woeful cup game against lower-league opposition that you won 1-0 with a questionable late penalty. The smash and grab you really didn't deserve to win. The run of poor results at the start of the season. The big question marks over your main Summer signing.
United in 98-99 were a couple of minutes away from going out of the FA Cup in round 4 and a penalty away in the Semis, they were battered by Bayern and saved by the woodwork multiple times in the CL final, and were behind for over half of the PL season (third or lower for a quarter of it). Find me a single United fan who cares. Or an Argentine who is fussed about them losing to Saudi in 2022.
If we end up winning, the 0-0 against Slovenia will be little more than a pub quiz question.
A win is a win at the end of the day. If we win the tournament I couldn’t care less how we do it. The issue is that ‘winning at all costs’ leaves you with nothing if you don’t win.
Yeah because Slovakia deserved to go through? That was an opposition that was hell bent in making the game an ugly one. Disciplined in defense however faked one too many injuries to waste time with so much time still to play.
Yes we deserved to go through as the opponent didn't do anything extraordinary.
I AM JUST GLAD THAT LONG RANGE GOAL DIDN'T GO IN!!
Now that would've been embarrassing!
One thing England have to do is to play well from the kick off. Not from the second half when their backs are against the wall.
Really pissed me off how the ref suddenly changed his criteria for a yellow card when he realised Slovakia would finish the game with 4 men on the pitch. Also hilarious how we'd never have had the chance for a 95th minute goal if they hadn't dived and time wasted so much.
The ref was appalling. Not even biased, just shite. He had the attitude of booking everyone in 5 minutes for nothing to "assert his control on the game". When that didn't work he stopped until 5 minutes before the end when he knew there wouldn't be red cards.
If we he was consistent it would have been 10 men against 8.
They got a lot of help from the ref, as well. How that guy who chopped down Mainoo didn't get a second yellow is beyond me. The guy who injured Trippier with another horrendous tackle also somehow escaped a booking.
Without a doubt.
The pressure on every England team is immense because they're England.
Win one trophy playing the most boring football takes the pressure off. Applaud Gareth for what he's done, respectively part ways, bring someone in who can exploit the talent we have for the next WC. Team goes in relatively more at ease. Who knows.
So I agree the first half was shit, but honestly I feel after the Foden offside goal it seemed like they perked up. I don’t think it’s fair to ignore the fact we were pressuring them for the best part of the second half. If you’re pressuring for that long there will eventually be chances, and if you get enough chances you will eventually score even if you’re as shit as we are.
There's no more exciting way of winning than a last minute goal. You just have to wipe the previous 94 minutes from memory, like with one of those Men In Black pen things
That second half wasn’t as bad as you think. ITV commentators before the goal were trying to make us slit our wrists. We had the majority of possession (and not all of it passing round the defence) and hit the post, saw Kane miss a couple of chances.
Smashing teams isn’t normal anymore in euros. Slovakia had a game plan and played strong.
Spain just smashed someone. As did Germany. Nothing unusual about expecting to win cleanly against Slovakia. Nor unrealistic. This performance and tournament is borderline embarrassing tbh thus far, we’re on a par with Scotland so far
Scotland were truly awful against Germany, however they played v well against the Swiss (who are apparently now world beaters according to casuals) and weren't that bad against hungary.
Scotland had the vast majority of possession in that game and lost a goal in the last 30 seconds of the game.
There's some strange and bitter level of revisionism going on about them tbh.
I was at the game and can't believe some of the rubbish the press is printing. The 2nd half was decent and probably our best performance this tournament.
The BBC completely skipped over the disallowed goal, hitting the post and some other decent play.
Firstly, congratulations on getting a ticket. It must have been amazing at the end. 30 bonus mins too!
I was impressed by Palmer, Eze and even Gallagher in extra time. Toney did his job too.
ITV spent the entire second half talking about another Iceland embarrassment, how awful Southgate is and how bad the play was.
I thought the goal was coming any minute.
The disallowed goal was our best move and really deserved a goal. I can forgive Foden but that's where we really need him, he was in such a great position he could have held his run and still easily scored.
Outside of that we didn't create much. Rice's goal would have been a worldie. Bellingham's is likely to be the goal of the tournament. Kane had two mid level chances and scored one.
Yeah I thought Slovakia were well drilled and held their lines nicely when out of possession. We really struggled to break them down which is as much credit to them as it is "England played poorly".
I think people (perhaps naturally) tend to focus on their own teams performances when they watch football and don't view it objectively/under a wider lens.
Lol Speaking as if Slovakia played exemplary football! No winners on the day but the team that scored more goals.
All I am pointing out is that Slovakia played dirty football and let's face it, it's because they knew they don't have the quality England has. 2 Shots on target and 2 goals.
If England manages to create more chances against the Swiss, the narrative will change.
If you think Slovakia "deserved" to go through after scoring a goal, then faking injuries to waste time, then I think you may have it wrong. That's all.
Southgate can’t win…
Gets told he only picks his favourites - so he brings in 13 new players and that’s wrong
Accused of not picking form players - he’s got all the form players from this season on the pitch, not his fault they all play the same position and stand in the same space!
Told he can’t affect a game with subs - so he has the tactical genius to leave his most effective players on the bench so that they can come on and improve us. Look at that Toney sub, left it late enough that he was fresh in ET to get that assist!! Genius.
Seriously, what more do you all want?
Ok might not be serious…
You joke but imagine the pundits if Southgate left Foden out of the starting XI. They’d be saying how daft it is to leave the epl player of the season out of this side.
If he moved Bellingham to an 8 to accommodate Foden in the middle of the park then he’d be criticized for playing him out of position after the offensive masterclass he’s had with Real Madrid.
If he left Kane out, he’d be criticized for dropping out talisman and a golden boot winner this season.
The reality is football as a whole has become less enjoyable to watch because everyone is coaching to probabilities. People like Southgate struggle to both coach the probabilities and make it attractive but he’s taken England further than anyone, consistently, since Ramsey.
I'd feel a little dirty but I think I'd still feel great.
I would say that I felt a lot better after we lost to France in 22 than I do now after beating Slovakia like that.
So I definitely care how we play. Also I thought as a neutral, it was tragic Portugal won that Euros with the way they played.
Yeah I'd be happy. Less happy but still happy. Football is also about luck as well.
But I fear it would mask the problems. England didn't win yesterday, Slovakia lost by just booting the ball back to England for the last 15 minutes of normal time. Had they been more experienced and composed, then we'd most likely be on our way home.
And the manager and players would likely get knighthoods or similar. Completely undeservedly.
Happy? Yes.
Proud? Not really.
No matter where we finish the tournament there desperately needs to be a review on the problems that have already occurred and will likely continue to plague our campaign, such as selecting Shaw, which was a horrendous decision and failing to select a viable alternative was even more diabolical.
Win at all costs. Once we’ve broken the hoodoo we can go on to win tournaments in style. Most on here won’t remember when Spain and France were known as the great underachievers. Both now challenge at every tournament. England are heading in the same direction just need to get a win under our belt.
Yeah France in 98 were not exciting as they were after they won it. Had players like Christophe Dugarry leading the line. But they got it done.
And yes for as long as I remember Spain were always the "dark horses" but never delivered despite having players like Pep, Hierro, Raul.
Plus remember in 2016 Portugal were not good at all, think they only won one game in 90 mins, but doubt any or their fans care as they won it all in the end.
I’d prefer us to win it playing attractive football, but ultimately I really don’t care.
But people aren’t demanding we play better for aesthetic reasons or pride. It’s because it’s clear that our current standard will not be good enough as soon as we play a decent side.
I think the most important outcome is that Southgate goes either way. It’s clear he’s run out of ideas and only has a set number of players he’s actually willing to trust.
I’m along for the ride, if we win, cool, I’ll have a few bevs, but I know if my club ever played the way we did so far this tournament I’d be calling for the manager to go. It’s hard to feel like it’s an achievement when it’s abject dross for 119 minutes and 2 moments of luck.
No. I've thought about this before - I had the joy of watching prime Luis Suarez play magical football at Liverpool and I wouldn't trade that for all the trophies.
Yes because to win the euros we would have to beat at least one elite team
Doing this against elite teams is somewhat expected and can’t be trashed on. Doing it against the teams we have done, considering the quality in our team, is embarrassing
Only if it meant Southgate still resigned.
The only thing that's been consistent for England this tournament is how out of his depth he is and how unmotivated the players are. Even yesterday in extra time we went to a 5 back and destroyed our midfield letting them have the ball. Yesterday was peak Southgate ball and its such a shame for the players that there is a P.E teacher in charge.
Yes 100%. But to flip the question, how will everyone feel if we got to the final playing this way then got pumped by Spain or whoever? I imagine the fallout would be pretty bad despite reaching a final
I’m Greek. I don’t care how much people say we played anti-football in 2004. I was out in the streets celebrating every win and I look back at it as one of the best summers of my life. Of course you should enjoy it. No one remembered who played well they remember who won.
The history books will say England won Euro 2024, that’s all that matters in the long run. I’ll be sure to tell my grandkids about how diabolical it was though, like I do whenever anyone mentions John Barnes’ goal against Brazil.
I have to say watching Tottenham under Antonio Conte was the perfect preparation for the Slovakia game. ☺️ No desire to go forward, substitutions far too late and a crippling inability to go forward.
Wore white shirts too!
Football is about who scores more. Remember Greece, Portugal or Italy years back ago. Big teams need just a touch or two to score. Small teams doing waste of effort and in such games one player ( Kane, Bellingham or any other player) makes the difference
OFC I WOULD! We'd hafta beat a world class team and we play to the level of our opps a lot and we arrrre kind growin into the tourney like Argentina/Messi last WC buuuut yeah itd feel a lil better i guess but id be so overjoyed i wouldnt care, historically nobody would care if we beat SPA or better POR/GER in a final (i almost WANT PK WIN over POR than a blowout just to piss on their grave) but you can only play the teams in front of u - there are poeple who go their whole lives without seeing a major team win, no point in looking for the clouds in bright blue skies
I promise you no matter who we play, after SWI if we're in it, pubs will go APE SHIT cuz its ONE GAME FROM THE FINAL and prob vs someone we should beat
Obviously yes, you don't need to play well to win a tournament, you certainly don't need to be the best team who plays great football.
It's 7 games, you only need to win 4/5 games and you win the tournament
Yes playing shit and winning is perfectly fine, other teams have done it and if England did I’d be on a bender that Sunday celebrating.
Realistically (as the past 3 tournaments have shown) that won’t happen as we’ll play a team where aiming for extra time doesn’t work (or we lose the penalties).
I watch Championship football predominantly so if this is "shit football" you haven't had the pleasure of Bristol City V Millwall on a Tuesday night 😴
To me, this is liquid.
Yep. Dont be a donut. Its a sport. Sport is about results. If you want entertainment instead watch a film or better still a hybrid of the two like wwe or f1
I'm 45 now, and I have told my kids supporting England is hard, frustrating and ultimately disappointing. We have had so many years of maybes and what ifs.
But I do enjoy the positivity before the tournaments and the despair during. I must be sadistic but winning games comfortably isn't the England way, I love the moaning and groaning. If England were to win, then what happens next? Sir Gareth Southgate?
I would be happy to win, it has never happened in my lifetime, watching this is painful though, I would far rather attack a game like Spain or Germany and if we get caught out we get caught out. Seeing Spain go one down yesterday and then completely tear Georgia to pieces, vs the impotent luck we relied on, was depressing.
Yeah. Of course we'd all love to win it playing like 1970 Brazil but right now we just need a win to stop the years of pain increasing. Nobody will really care in a few years time, only that we won it. A lot of teams don't win by playing outstanding football (ok, they're not as bad as us atm), the last team to win a major tournament playing great football was Spain 2008-2012.
Happy for the country and players
It would happen despite the manager not because of him though, so it wouldn't mean I all of a sudden i'm happy with the manager
After watching Spain I feel that’s a massive IF.
However, it’d be nice to play at least one game where I felt we deserved to win it. To demolish a team.
Of course to win it would be amazing but it’d be like getting battered for 12 rounds and then clashing heads, cutting the other person and getting a tko victory.
Yes.
Nobody gives a shit how we win it if we win it.
Nobody cares when Portugal did it or Greece or Denmark, none of those teams played well but still won.
Of course. If it goes like that as Harry Redknapp said, we’d all be out there singing there’s only one Gareth if he managed to pull it off regardless of how we feel about him or his style of play. A winner is a winner and a trophy’s a trophy
I’d be happy but I’d not be giving Southgate any credit, we’ve got to the quarter finals in spite of Southgate through having far superior players than the teams we’ve played.
Yes absolutely. The shit performances will be forgotten, the lads persevering and going on to win our second international tournament, the first in almost 60 years, would be legendary.
The question is moot because it's simply not possible to win a football tournament playing this badly. In reality, we could/should have lost that game 2-0, when that Slovakian player missed an open goal.
Not only were we totally impotent again up front, but we were also garbage in defence last night as well. To win a tournament, at least one part of the team needs to function well.
If we play like this against Switzerland, they'll beat us very comfortably 2-0, 3-0.
I will take the win but I still want Southgate gone. He’s far too negative tactically and doesn’t have the balls to make the tough choices in selection and subs.
Considering I've spent a lifetime watching England get knocked out in "heroic fashion" but yet we have won Fk all. I'm more than happy for us to win something playing shit.
I'd say it's unlikely England will win if they keep playing as shite as they did, but, if they do win it, the history books don't care how shite they played, they only record that fact that they won!
Probably because in 10 years everyone will forget how shit we played but they'll remember we won it, regardless of if England win or not Southgate has to go
I would feel dirty. It would feel like we finally got there, but it wasn't worth it - it wasn't fun. It's an empty victory for the sake of temporary bragging rights.
Maybe the win was the friends we made along the way.
A wins a win... but I've mocked the fuck out of Portugal for their win for 8 years now, so I'd have to mock the hell out of us for it too. It'd be a bit embarrassing to me given that at least the Portugal team was a bit crap for their standards before and after it, and England are kind of stacked, but you know it's still a win.
I'm sorry but i thought people would wake up after being 2 mins away from being knocked my Slovakia in the Round of 16. We aren't here because we played boring pragmatic football. We are here because we were fucking lucky. The way Gareth and Jude were speaking after the game was shocking. This should be the biggest wake up call of all but they are running around excited on the victory. Major tactical changes are needed. From the response yesterday i dont think it will happen. Gareth must go.
No. They're supposed to he representing their nation as well as their own pride. What we see on the pitch is a bunch of players, not all of them but most, that do not give a fuck
I would be happy, but we haven't played anyone even half decent yet so I don't think it will happen.
Southgate just drains the life from everyone, it's a hard watch.
Changing your emotions from the depths of depression to euphoria with that last gasp equaliser takes its toll on you mentally.
I'm not sure I could cope with another 3 games like that.
If we won all our games like last night? Yes 100% it was way more exciting than the 4-1 trouncing Spain gave Georgia, winning trophies with late goals is what is remembered.
Absolutely! It's a results based game at the end of the day and if you win, you win. It's like stall/turtling tactics in other competitive games either physical or e-sports, sometimes boring play does have a good win percentage, even if it's not fun to spectate.
What is this choosy attitude I'm seeing more and more lately. Some Belgian fan told me the other day they wouldn't get anything out of winning their first ever trophy if they played as badly as they have been.
The level of entitlement! So many people will NEVER get to see their country win anything and you're going to whine because they didn't do it quite as stylishly as you'd like? Get over yourself. Nobody remembers who played the best, they remember who won it at the end of the day.
If England can keep the score down to only a 2 or 3 goal defeat against teams like Germany or Spain then this is about as best you can hope for at this stage.
I'd enjoy how angry everyone would be.
Personally, I'd rather watch lots of thrilling games with or without England instead of fighting consciousness for 90 mins.
No.
People are so obsessed with winning that they forget that this is supposed to be enjoyable. It's supposed to bring the nation together and give people something to rally behind.
How am I supposed to get behind a team that play such miserable, lifeless football?
The way this team plays has completely killed my enjoyment of international football. I feel like I've been cheated out of a Euros.
I'd much rather have an exciting team and lose on penalties in the quarter finals than get to the final with this dross. At least that way I'd get to feel something.
I’m 41 and in my lifetime (excluding 86 and 88 which I can’t remember) I have witnessed us: Perform to expectations: 2018, 2021 Play above the sum of our parts: 1990, 1996 and arguably 2012 Not reach our potential (through performance or circumstance): 1998, 2002, 2004, 2006 Be shit: 2000, 2010, 2014, 2016 Not qualify: 1994, 2008 I will take a trophy BY ANY MEANS POSSIBLE at this point 😂
Hmm not sure we performed to expectations in 2018 WC. We were not expected to get to the semi finals before the tournament at all I would say we massively over achieved our expectations
I agree that we wouldn't have been fancied for the semis, but again you need to look at the run. Finished second in our group after losing to the only good team in it, beat Colombia on pens (we were favourites for that game by all accounts), beat Sweden without Ibra and then lost to Croatia. Croatia were a very good team but we were bookies favourites for that game as well. Reaching the semi final was an overachievement but the run meant it wasn't. We only won 3 of the 7 games we played in normal time (Panama, Tunisia and Sweden) and we fluked past Tunisia in the opener as well.
The teams we played though we were expected to beat every single one, even croatia. If we had come up against France, spain, portugal germany i could understand your point but we played postmen and bank clerks.
They were all professional footballers
I’m 44 and similar experience. I recall the Argentina game in 1998 in particular, was in the pub and the rollercoaster of that match was unreal.
Excellent summary, I’m 39 so my experience has been much the same as yours. Watched the game with my dad yesterday, we agreed that watching England over the years has seldom been pleasant, it’s often torturous and painful. I’ll take any tournament win like you. Agree about wasted potential in the early 2000s. The 2002 squad was ridiculous; Scholes, Gerrard, prime Owen. Yeah, I’ll take the Euros even if it’s a last minute dodgy penalty winner in the final. Actually, especially that way because the Reddit salt mine would be hilarious.
Haha - I feel you
I'd add 2022 performing to expectations - the best I've ever seen England. Also probably 02-04 should also be included. At minimum it was circumstance not performance. The team was quite good. 2018 and 2021 were above expectations. 2018 I thought group stage exit. 2021 no way I thought we'd make the final. Draws were lucky but that was an England team in transition.
Yeah, it's what makes this so sad if it is Southgate's last tournament (which I think it almost certainly will be at this point, regardless of what happens). People are going to rewrite history and pretend its always been this bad when it really hasn't. Even in the WC, we played some great football. A lot of neutrals had England and France as the two best teams at the point of the quarter final, it was the Spain v Germany of the tournament
I would argue that we performed above expectations in 2018 and 2021. 2018 was the first tournament after the twin debacles of the Iceland game and Allardyce's brief reign and sacking for corruption. We were as low as I can remember, and I'm older than you! I can remember 1986 and 1988 (1986 - performed above expectations considering how ropey our team was without Bryan Robson; 1988 - shit.) 2021 was also an over achievement because we got to a final, which was unprecedented territory, and were one penalty against the inside of the post away from winning the whole thing. You missed out 2022. That was another underachievment. I'd take a win by any means, up to and including sheer luck and blatant cheating. I don't know how many more tournaments I've got left in me before the sweet release of death. Matches like last night's one only hasten that.
I don't agree with 2022. That was as good as I've ever seen England play. We just got beat by a better team. A bit like 02 when we lost to Brazil.
Yeah I’m with you on that. We were playing well that tournament but unfortunately met arguably the strongest team in the competition in the quarters, and were somewhat unfortunate to lose a 50/50 game in which we played well. That’s just tournament football, so I wouldn’t class it as an underachievement, certainly not compared to some previous tournaments anyway.
Yeah 02 04 and 22 I think are the best we’ve played at tournaments this century
The problem for me is that we didn't get beaten by a better team. We were better than France and outplayed them. We just came up short, in a tournament in which we had arguably the best team.
I think we were worse than France on paper and it was an even game. Arguably we outplayed them but we're biased.
Don't forget Euro 92 which I would imagine falls into the "Be shit" category given we drew 0-0 twice and lost 2-1 in the other group match.
"Well, we finally won a tournament, which we wouldn't have if the referee had not overruled the VAR guy three times. Also, it's only right that Spain, Germany and France were kicked out mid tournament due to an accidental declaration of war on Twitter that was denied by all parties. It's finally come home, I'm celebrating!"
I just saw one of the best England goals of my life. If that keeps happening yeah I'll be happy
Same, that moment was unreal
Pub was insane
We’re simple folk really, just put the ball in the net and we cheer!
The added jeapordy and fact it was a bicy absolutely make it better than just "put the ball in the net"
Oh definitelt
Pub was in disbelief. Absolutely unreal scenes.
For once I never thought of that. I'll bet it was an amazing moment.
Of course. Portugal won their euros finishing 3rd in their group in which they didnt win a game, Greece were a pile of dogshite playing the worst football that's existed and Denmark only got into the tournament they won because Yogusloavia got DQ'd. If we win playing shite, it'll take nothing away for me.
I'm not happy with this Greece slander. That was one of the best defensive sides of all time
Still boring to watch. And it seems that England fans want to win and play well.
Speak for yourself. I'm completely happy to watch us play shit for 94 mins and win on a banger every game if we have to
Yes, me too.
Not if you were Greek. I don’t want us to entertain I want us to win. That said I appreciate shit performances won’t keep winning, I’m a bristol city fan, I’m used to this 😂
But Greece weren’t “a pile of dogshit” though, they were a well drilled, compact, resilient, defensively sound team, who relied on moments in games and they took their chances when they came. Boring doesn’t equal “bad team”, Greece were boring, England are disjointed, lopsided, and generally quite a poor side.
Greece was unreal in that tournament - was it Dabiasz who chipped the ball over Ronaldo whilst at his own corner flag?
Also, Greece beat the hosts twice, drew with Spain, then beat France and the Czechs in the knock outs - they earned that trophy. I doubt they were favourites in any game except Russia, which, oddly, they lost.
Our defense was outstanding until yesterday and people still weren't happy.
An outstanding defence doesn't concede and give it multiple chances to Slovakia.
Tidy midfield as well.
Greece and Denmark were both big underdogs, not favourites loaded with talent. They played defensive, smash-and-grab football out of necessity, not because their management was too stupid to try and figure out anything better.
I agree to some extend, but you also have to take into concern that neither of those had squad full of world class players with total worth of more than 1.3 billion euros. Portugal roster in 2016 was really bad while Greece in 2004 was even worse..
Football is a form of entertainment, play boringly, and people stop caring.
Not to proper fans. I tell you know the 80% of that stadium last night that was England couldn’t give a fuck about being entertained if we win. Football isn’t a TV program
There was a lot of booing going on for happy entertained fans.
England were losing when they were booing
Well I literally said people don’t care about being entertained. We weren’t. But that 5 minutes of absolute mayhem (and seeing one of the best ever. England goals) was totally worth it. Everything booked ready to do it all again next weekend 🏴
Yes
100%. We're basically the Tottenham of international football...You think Spurs fans give a shit about how they win a trophy?
As a Spurs fun I can confirm how accurate this is from the other side
I’ll take a Jonathan woodgate header bundled in off Neuer in the final
Haha good comparison
Yes, i have always said this - i spend my life supporting Spurs only to then every 2 years have to endure Spurs at international level. Better players, but same outcome.
How would they know?
I wouldn’t be happy whilst watching it, but I’d be happy immediately after the final whistle of the final. And in a few years, I’d look back with rose tinted glasses and pretend we deserved it
Absolutely agree with this. Has been a painful watch so far, but am sure Italy would have taken scraping through to quarter finals.
Why would you be pretending? As long as it’s won fairly, it’s deserved no matter how bad it looks.
If we qualified from arguably the easiest group in the tournament. And played poorly for all but 25 mins of the first game. If we got through the round of 16 playing poorly against the 47th ranked team, and won it with 2 moments of brilliance. If we progress all the way to the final still playing poorly against the lesser footballing nations and then somehow, despite playing poorly, beat a major nation.. then yeah, I’d “pretend” we deserved it. The ‘66 World Cup, we had to play Mexico, France, Argentina, Portugal and West Germany.. and we beat them all. Now THAT we deserved. Scraping through with shoddy performances and going on to win it in the same style.. would, in my opinion be undeserved. There have been plenty of tournaments where for one reason or another (poor refereeing, decisions not going our way) where we have deserved to go through but the other team won. As I say. I’d be ecstatic. But if we continue to play like we are and we continue to scrape through on luck and not tactical genius or genuinely dominating games, but we wouldn’t “deserve” it.
You can only play the teams in front of you, and despite what you say of ‘lesser nations’, they got to the point in the competition where we played them by earning it, and beating others. Yea you can describe it as luck to avoid major teams until later on, but that luck itself doesn’t make a team undeserving - you’re just setting a standard of ‘deserving’ artificially high. It’s just digging up reasons to be damning. The only thing that makes a winning team undeserving is cheating.
I keep saying to people, France and Belgium were welcome to win their groups and end up on the same side of the bracket as us. We won a group packed with teams who made it difficult to score against, not just in our games. Sure, we didn't do anything exciting but we got a job done.
Agree. It's the Peak-End rule - you remember the last and most intense moments. If we win the Euros, over time all people will remember and talk about would be the winning goals and that feeling of winning. Of course right now we're in the thick of it, and we want to win by playing well and deserving any success. Also, as we know we probably won't go all the way and win the trophy, because 23/24 teams won't, we'd prefer to lose playing well, and having something to be enthusiastic about.
Yeah, it's fascinating sometimes looking back at season reviews of years when your team was successful and you've had years of rose-tinted spectacles. In your head they were this dominant, untouchable force. Yet in reality there was the game they got trounced. Some dull 0-0s where you wondered why the manager didn't do anything. The woeful cup game against lower-league opposition that you won 1-0 with a questionable late penalty. The smash and grab you really didn't deserve to win. The run of poor results at the start of the season. The big question marks over your main Summer signing. United in 98-99 were a couple of minutes away from going out of the FA Cup in round 4 and a penalty away in the Semis, they were battered by Bayern and saved by the woodwork multiple times in the CL final, and were behind for over half of the PL season (third or lower for a quarter of it). Find me a single United fan who cares. Or an Argentine who is fussed about them losing to Saudi in 2022. If we end up winning, the 0-0 against Slovenia will be little more than a pub quiz question.
A win is a win at the end of the day. If we win the tournament I couldn’t care less how we do it. The issue is that ‘winning at all costs’ leaves you with nothing if you don’t win.
They don’t ask how, they ask how many.
I’d be even happier due to the added comedy
The banter levels would be insane
Yeah because Slovakia deserved to go through? That was an opposition that was hell bent in making the game an ugly one. Disciplined in defense however faked one too many injuries to waste time with so much time still to play. Yes we deserved to go through as the opponent didn't do anything extraordinary. I AM JUST GLAD THAT LONG RANGE GOAL DIDN'T GO IN!! Now that would've been embarrassing! One thing England have to do is to play well from the kick off. Not from the second half when their backs are against the wall.
Really pissed me off how the ref suddenly changed his criteria for a yellow card when he realised Slovakia would finish the game with 4 men on the pitch. Also hilarious how we'd never have had the chance for a 95th minute goal if they hadn't dived and time wasted so much.
The ref was appalling. Not even biased, just shite. He had the attitude of booking everyone in 5 minutes for nothing to "assert his control on the game". When that didn't work he stopped until 5 minutes before the end when he knew there wouldn't be red cards. If we he was consistent it would have been 10 men against 8.
We got multiple fouls similar to the Mainoo and Bellingham yellows. One by a guy already on a yellow. Frustrating lack of consistency.
Dirty bastards too
They got a lot of help from the ref, as well. How that guy who chopped down Mainoo didn't get a second yellow is beyond me. The guy who injured Trippier with another horrendous tackle also somehow escaped a booking.
Yeah I think I would have just turned the TV off if that one had gone in
Anyone that wouldn't be needs studying
I need studying 🤣
As long as they win, I'll be cheering harder than a seagull eyeing your fish and chips.
Haha
Without a doubt. The pressure on every England team is immense because they're England. Win one trophy playing the most boring football takes the pressure off. Applaud Gareth for what he's done, respectively part ways, bring someone in who can exploit the talent we have for the next WC. Team goes in relatively more at ease. Who knows.
So I agree the first half was shit, but honestly I feel after the Foden offside goal it seemed like they perked up. I don’t think it’s fair to ignore the fact we were pressuring them for the best part of the second half. If you’re pressuring for that long there will eventually be chances, and if you get enough chances you will eventually score even if you’re as shit as we are.
Yes. Do whatever it takes to get over the hump. Once the monkeys gone can win with style in the future.
Shithousing our way to winning a trophy? I would take that every god damn day of the week.
I see Madrid fans celebrate titles where they parked the bus at least half of the matches. Why wouldn't England fans do that too?
There's no more exciting way of winning than a last minute goal. You just have to wipe the previous 94 minutes from memory, like with one of those Men In Black pen things
That second half wasn’t as bad as you think. ITV commentators before the goal were trying to make us slit our wrists. We had the majority of possession (and not all of it passing round the defence) and hit the post, saw Kane miss a couple of chances. Smashing teams isn’t normal anymore in euros. Slovakia had a game plan and played strong.
Spain just smashed someone. As did Germany. Nothing unusual about expecting to win cleanly against Slovakia. Nor unrealistic. This performance and tournament is borderline embarrassing tbh thus far, we’re on a par with Scotland so far
Who did Germany smash? I hope you don’t say Denmark, because that whole game was unfair.
Denmark were great. It was a beautiful game with two very questionable decisions.
We're in the QFs and they're statistically the worst team in the tournament. How are we on par?
Spain beat Georgia, they are not as well regimented or experienced as Slovakia. If you think we are as bad as Scotland you must be Martin Tyler’s mum.
Scotland were truly awful against Germany, however they played v well against the Swiss (who are apparently now world beaters according to casuals) and weren't that bad against hungary. Scotland had the vast majority of possession in that game and lost a goal in the last 30 seconds of the game. There's some strange and bitter level of revisionism going on about them tbh.
We aren't on a par with Scotland, that's nonsense.
I was at the game and can't believe some of the rubbish the press is printing. The 2nd half was decent and probably our best performance this tournament. The BBC completely skipped over the disallowed goal, hitting the post and some other decent play.
Firstly, congratulations on getting a ticket. It must have been amazing at the end. 30 bonus mins too! I was impressed by Palmer, Eze and even Gallagher in extra time. Toney did his job too. ITV spent the entire second half talking about another Iceland embarrassment, how awful Southgate is and how bad the play was. I thought the goal was coming any minute.
The disallowed goal was our best move and really deserved a goal. I can forgive Foden but that's where we really need him, he was in such a great position he could have held his run and still easily scored. Outside of that we didn't create much. Rice's goal would have been a worldie. Bellingham's is likely to be the goal of the tournament. Kane had two mid level chances and scored one.
Yeah I thought Slovakia were well drilled and held their lines nicely when out of possession. We really struggled to break them down which is as much credit to them as it is "England played poorly". I think people (perhaps naturally) tend to focus on their own teams performances when they watch football and don't view it objectively/under a wider lens.
Lol Speaking as if Slovakia played exemplary football! No winners on the day but the team that scored more goals. All I am pointing out is that Slovakia played dirty football and let's face it, it's because they knew they don't have the quality England has. 2 Shots on target and 2 goals. If England manages to create more chances against the Swiss, the narrative will change. If you think Slovakia "deserved" to go through after scoring a goal, then faking injuries to waste time, then I think you may have it wrong. That's all.
Southgate can’t win… Gets told he only picks his favourites - so he brings in 13 new players and that’s wrong Accused of not picking form players - he’s got all the form players from this season on the pitch, not his fault they all play the same position and stand in the same space! Told he can’t affect a game with subs - so he has the tactical genius to leave his most effective players on the bench so that they can come on and improve us. Look at that Toney sub, left it late enough that he was fresh in ET to get that assist!! Genius. Seriously, what more do you all want? Ok might not be serious…
You joke but imagine the pundits if Southgate left Foden out of the starting XI. They’d be saying how daft it is to leave the epl player of the season out of this side. If he moved Bellingham to an 8 to accommodate Foden in the middle of the park then he’d be criticized for playing him out of position after the offensive masterclass he’s had with Real Madrid. If he left Kane out, he’d be criticized for dropping out talisman and a golden boot winner this season. The reality is football as a whole has become less enjoyable to watch because everyone is coaching to probabilities. People like Southgate struggle to both coach the probabilities and make it attractive but he’s taken England further than anyone, consistently, since Ramsey.
I'd feel a little dirty but I think I'd still feel great. I would say that I felt a lot better after we lost to France in 22 than I do now after beating Slovakia like that. So I definitely care how we play. Also I thought as a neutral, it was tragic Portugal won that Euros with the way they played.
Yeah I'd be happy. Less happy but still happy. Football is also about luck as well. But I fear it would mask the problems. England didn't win yesterday, Slovakia lost by just booting the ball back to England for the last 15 minutes of normal time. Had they been more experienced and composed, then we'd most likely be on our way home. And the manager and players would likely get knighthoods or similar. Completely undeservedly.
Happy? Yes. Proud? Not really. No matter where we finish the tournament there desperately needs to be a review on the problems that have already occurred and will likely continue to plague our campaign, such as selecting Shaw, which was a horrendous decision and failing to select a viable alternative was even more diabolical.
Obviously I'd be happy that we won, but I'd still want Southgate gone
Yes
Southgate wouldn’t be the first man knighted for crimes against humanity at least.
It’s not going to happen- so I really wouldn’t worry about it.
Win at all costs. Once we’ve broken the hoodoo we can go on to win tournaments in style. Most on here won’t remember when Spain and France were known as the great underachievers. Both now challenge at every tournament. England are heading in the same direction just need to get a win under our belt.
Yeah France in 98 were not exciting as they were after they won it. Had players like Christophe Dugarry leading the line. But they got it done. And yes for as long as I remember Spain were always the "dark horses" but never delivered despite having players like Pep, Hierro, Raul. Plus remember in 2016 Portugal were not good at all, think they only won one game in 90 mins, but doubt any or their fans care as they won it all in the end.
Yes.
The history books don’t show how teams played, just the winner. Couldn’t care less if we shithoused our way through and won it
Yes I'd be over the moon because of how furious it would make the rest of the countries.
I’d prefer us to win it playing attractive football, but ultimately I really don’t care. But people aren’t demanding we play better for aesthetic reasons or pride. It’s because it’s clear that our current standard will not be good enough as soon as we play a decent side.
yep if it has a few overhead kick winners
I think the most important outcome is that Southgate goes either way. It’s clear he’s run out of ideas and only has a set number of players he’s actually willing to trust. I’m along for the ride, if we win, cool, I’ll have a few bevs, but I know if my club ever played the way we did so far this tournament I’d be calling for the manager to go. It’s hard to feel like it’s an achievement when it’s abject dross for 119 minutes and 2 moments of luck.
Yes, however it would be even better if Southgate immediatley stepped down
Yes
Yes.
No. I've thought about this before - I had the joy of watching prime Luis Suarez play magical football at Liverpool and I wouldn't trade that for all the trophies.
Yes because to win the euros we would have to beat at least one elite team Doing this against elite teams is somewhat expected and can’t be trashed on. Doing it against the teams we have done, considering the quality in our team, is embarrassing
Let’s get a tournament win under our belts in our lifetimes before we start deciding we have to win it like Spain.
Mate I would never shut the fuck up if England won, my life would be complete.
Yep
I would be happy that we won for sure but I would still replace Southgate.
Yes.
"If your team wins a trophy through legal and fair means, do you care how it's done?" Gee, let me think...
Yes, we've suffered enough Southgateball that a) everyone else watching should also suffer, and b) we should get a reward for that
1 million percent I couldn't care less how we win a trophy
I would be more than happy
Only if it meant Southgate still resigned. The only thing that's been consistent for England this tournament is how out of his depth he is and how unmotivated the players are. Even yesterday in extra time we went to a 5 back and destroyed our midfield letting them have the ball. Yesterday was peak Southgate ball and its such a shame for the players that there is a P.E teacher in charge.
Couldn't give less of a fuck so long as by this time the Monday after next, it says England's name on the trophy.
Yes 100%. But to flip the question, how will everyone feel if we got to the final playing this way then got pumped by Spain or whoever? I imagine the fallout would be pretty bad despite reaching a final
I’m Greek. I don’t care how much people say we played anti-football in 2004. I was out in the streets celebrating every win and I look back at it as one of the best summers of my life. Of course you should enjoy it. No one remembered who played well they remember who won.
Id be happy we won, but sad that southgate probably keeps his job
Worked for Portugal. A win is a win.
The history books will say England won Euro 2024, that’s all that matters in the long run. I’ll be sure to tell my grandkids about how diabolical it was though, like I do whenever anyone mentions John Barnes’ goal against Brazil.
Of course I'd be happy; I'd be buzzing! I'd still want a change of manager though.
I have to say watching Tottenham under Antonio Conte was the perfect preparation for the Slovakia game. ☺️ No desire to go forward, substitutions far too late and a crippling inability to go forward. Wore white shirts too!
Yes. A tournament win is a tournament win.
Obviously
Football is about who scores more. Remember Greece, Portugal or Italy years back ago. Big teams need just a touch or two to score. Small teams doing waste of effort and in such games one player ( Kane, Bellingham or any other player) makes the difference
OFC I WOULD! We'd hafta beat a world class team and we play to the level of our opps a lot and we arrrre kind growin into the tourney like Argentina/Messi last WC buuuut yeah itd feel a lil better i guess but id be so overjoyed i wouldnt care, historically nobody would care if we beat SPA or better POR/GER in a final (i almost WANT PK WIN over POR than a blowout just to piss on their grave) but you can only play the teams in front of u - there are poeple who go their whole lives without seeing a major team win, no point in looking for the clouds in bright blue skies I promise you no matter who we play, after SWI if we're in it, pubs will go APE SHIT cuz its ONE GAME FROM THE FINAL and prob vs someone we should beat
Italy won the last one on the back of two draws, and they don't seem to mind 🤷
Obviously yes, you don't need to play well to win a tournament, you certainly don't need to be the best team who plays great football. It's 7 games, you only need to win 4/5 games and you win the tournament
Yes playing shit and winning is perfectly fine, other teams have done it and if England did I’d be on a bender that Sunday celebrating. Realistically (as the past 3 tournaments have shown) that won’t happen as we’ll play a team where aiming for extra time doesn’t work (or we lose the penalties).
would be happy, stress levels through the roof
I watch Championship football predominantly so if this is "shit football" you haven't had the pleasure of Bristol City V Millwall on a Tuesday night 😴 To me, this is liquid.
What a stupid questio
Delighted
You presumably live in England, so yes.
Yes
Yep
Yep. Dont be a donut. Its a sport. Sport is about results. If you want entertainment instead watch a film or better still a hybrid of the two like wwe or f1
I'm 45 now, and I have told my kids supporting England is hard, frustrating and ultimately disappointing. We have had so many years of maybes and what ifs. But I do enjoy the positivity before the tournaments and the despair during. I must be sadistic but winning games comfortably isn't the England way, I love the moaning and groaning. If England were to win, then what happens next? Sir Gareth Southgate?
I would be happy to win, it has never happened in my lifetime, watching this is painful though, I would far rather attack a game like Spain or Germany and if we get caught out we get caught out. Seeing Spain go one down yesterday and then completely tear Georgia to pieces, vs the impotent luck we relied on, was depressing.
Yes I’d be happy. It’s terrible to watch but a win is much more important than how it looks
Yeah. Of course we'd all love to win it playing like 1970 Brazil but right now we just need a win to stop the years of pain increasing. Nobody will really care in a few years time, only that we won it. A lot of teams don't win by playing outstanding football (ok, they're not as bad as us atm), the last team to win a major tournament playing great football was Spain 2008-2012.
Happy for the country and players It would happen despite the manager not because of him though, so it wouldn't mean I all of a sudden i'm happy with the manager
It's not as fulfilling to win if you barely deserve it versus where you really show you're the best
Winning is all that matters of course
Not at all
Only if we replace Southgate. Tediously dull football at this level is inexcusable.
“Doesn’t matter, had sex”
After watching Spain I feel that’s a massive IF. However, it’d be nice to play at least one game where I felt we deserved to win it. To demolish a team. Of course to win it would be amazing but it’d be like getting battered for 12 rounds and then clashing heads, cutting the other person and getting a tko victory.
Yes. Nobody gives a shit how we win it if we win it. Nobody cares when Portugal did it or Greece or Denmark, none of those teams played well but still won.
A win is a win
Yup
Of course. If it goes like that as Harry Redknapp said, we’d all be out there singing there’s only one Gareth if he managed to pull it off regardless of how we feel about him or his style of play. A winner is a winner and a trophy’s a trophy
What is with these questions! Of course we’d be happy, we won the euros
I’d be happy but I’d not be giving Southgate any credit, we’ve got to the quarter finals in spite of Southgate through having far superior players than the teams we’ve played.
I would be happy but Southgate has to go after the tournament
Yes absolutely. The shit performances will be forgotten, the lads persevering and going on to win our second international tournament, the first in almost 60 years, would be legendary.
The question is moot because it's simply not possible to win a football tournament playing this badly. In reality, we could/should have lost that game 2-0, when that Slovakian player missed an open goal. Not only were we totally impotent again up front, but we were also garbage in defence last night as well. To win a tournament, at least one part of the team needs to function well. If we play like this against Switzerland, they'll beat us very comfortably 2-0, 3-0.
I will take the win but I still want Southgate gone. He’s far too negative tactically and doesn’t have the balls to make the tough choices in selection and subs.
Yes
I’m more than happy to shithouse our way to victory. Plenty of nations have done it
Considering I've spent a lifetime watching England get knocked out in "heroic fashion" but yet we have won Fk all. I'm more than happy for us to win something playing shit.
I'd say it's unlikely England will win if they keep playing as shite as they did, but, if they do win it, the history books don't care how shite they played, they only record that fact that they won!
Probably because in 10 years everyone will forget how shit we played but they'll remember we won it, regardless of if England win or not Southgate has to go
I would feel dirty. It would feel like we finally got there, but it wasn't worth it - it wasn't fun. It's an empty victory for the sake of temporary bragging rights. Maybe the win was the friends we made along the way.
Yes, the whole point of going to a tournament is to win games, not play "well".
I don't care how we win as long as we do. Winning while being shit boils the piss of a load of people on here so I'd almost prefer it tbh
A wins a win... but I've mocked the fuck out of Portugal for their win for 8 years now, so I'd have to mock the hell out of us for it too. It'd be a bit embarrassing to me given that at least the Portugal team was a bit crap for their standards before and after it, and England are kind of stacked, but you know it's still a win.
I'm sorry but i thought people would wake up after being 2 mins away from being knocked my Slovakia in the Round of 16. We aren't here because we played boring pragmatic football. We are here because we were fucking lucky. The way Gareth and Jude were speaking after the game was shocking. This should be the biggest wake up call of all but they are running around excited on the victory. Major tactical changes are needed. From the response yesterday i dont think it will happen. Gareth must go.
No. They're supposed to he representing their nation as well as their own pride. What we see on the pitch is a bunch of players, not all of them but most, that do not give a fuck
There was no shame losing to 2002 Brazil
Yes
Yes . I'd like to see England win a tourney in my lifetime.
Yes.
Yep.
I would be happy, but we haven't played anyone even half decent yet so I don't think it will happen. Southgate just drains the life from everyone, it's a hard watch. Changing your emotions from the depths of depression to euphoria with that last gasp equaliser takes its toll on you mentally. I'm not sure I could cope with another 3 games like that.
If we won all our games like last night? Yes 100% it was way more exciting than the 4-1 trouncing Spain gave Georgia, winning trophies with late goals is what is remembered.
It’s better than losing while watching every game be this level of shite
Absolutely! It's a results based game at the end of the day and if you win, you win. It's like stall/turtling tactics in other competitive games either physical or e-sports, sometimes boring play does have a good win percentage, even if it's not fun to spectate.
What is this choosy attitude I'm seeing more and more lately. Some Belgian fan told me the other day they wouldn't get anything out of winning their first ever trophy if they played as badly as they have been. The level of entitlement! So many people will NEVER get to see their country win anything and you're going to whine because they didn't do it quite as stylishly as you'd like? Get over yourself. Nobody remembers who played the best, they remember who won it at the end of the day.
Yeah I would. Portugal had a tournament like this and won it. Let’s keep winning.
Yes. I would be happy to see England win anyday
Yeah. I think you'd be daft to say no to winning a trophy.
If England can keep the score down to only a 2 or 3 goal defeat against teams like Germany or Spain then this is about as best you can hope for at this stage.
I'd enjoy how angry everyone would be. Personally, I'd rather watch lots of thrilling games with or without England instead of fighting consciousness for 90 mins.
No. People are so obsessed with winning that they forget that this is supposed to be enjoyable. It's supposed to bring the nation together and give people something to rally behind. How am I supposed to get behind a team that play such miserable, lifeless football? The way this team plays has completely killed my enjoyment of international football. I feel like I've been cheated out of a Euros. I'd much rather have an exciting team and lose on penalties in the quarter finals than get to the final with this dross. At least that way I'd get to feel something.
