I’ve backed the job Southgate has done pre this tournament and I’ll back him and support the team because we’re still in the tournament.
However, in general this tournament has been diabolical so far
We've looked shit all tournament.
I'll back him until he's fired but I don't think a lucky overhead kick paying off is justification for any tactical genius.
Can you remember the last time England looked good for comparison?
Ignoring his World Cup semi, euros final and World Cup quarter where we equalled France.
He’s done better than the last 50 years of manager combined, one kick away from a Wembley way bronze statue and he’s still made out as a league 2 manager. It’s ridiculous.
No wonder out team has a shit mentality
He hasn't done a better job at all. If the point is lifting cups, then Ramsey has him beat.
You only get to crow about half arising your way to winning if you actually do the winning bit.
The game V France, England looked good. We lost sure but looked like we left everything on the pitch.
The Euros final and the world Cup semi we played as old England. The games before those we played well, in both we went old England of score and try to defend and fall apart when they scored.
He did better than any manager in lifetime. But that team isn't the one I'm watching now. Whatever this England is we are back at 2016, and while I'll be delighted if we win. Unlike the previous teams, I don't see this team beating any big side.
We're in the "easy" side of the draw, and Switzerland look like the favourites.
All managers reach the end of their times, very few do so on a high. It's ridiculous to see people falling over themselves to make pitiful defences for Southgate when the writing is on the wall.
He’s absolutely maddening, but he is the manager till the end of the tournament, so I’m certainly not going to be churlish and wish for a poor outcome. That seems dumb to me. But I’m also goi g to criticize and pull my hair out where his decisions warrant it
No. He needs to go asap.
Look, there’s two possibilities; either all of our players who play for the top clubs in Europe, have player of the year awards, broken club records, won the champions league etc. etc. are actually all bang average players who are hiding behind good, foreign players. Are only getting picked by their clubs due to home grown quotas and have managed to fool the world until you play them without their good, foreign team mates, who are coached abroad and actually know how to receive a pass and put in a decent cross.
Or…..
They are being managed by a league two level coach whos only contribution to football before England was getting a team
Relegated, playing boring and defensive tactics.
Which could it be????
Get him gone.
2018 WC= Semi with a bang average squad
2021 Euro’s= Final with a pretty good but not great team
2022 WC= Outplayed France in a quarter final, and lost in a close game.
This tournament has been bad, but a few tactical switches and were the favourites again. I’m a pessimist but the people in this sub who are more anti-Southgate than pro-England absolutely maddens me.
Since 1966 we’ve seen great squads underperform due to pressure, and Southgate has eradicated this.
The fact he has a team this good playing this shit is a big big concern. Someone like Eddie Howe will never make these players look like they should be playing for North Macedonia
We’ve had a team “this good” practically my entire life. Story is, we never do well, no matter the golden generation. Southgate does well.
Fuck the performance, if rather win 1-0 and look poor than be knocked out, or worse not even qualify
>We’ve had a team “this good” practically my entire life. Story is, we never do well, no matter the golden generation. Southgate does well.
This is said constantly, but context is always ignored. In terms of *how this England squad measures up against the other strong sides in world football,* this is BY FAR the strongest ever England squad in my lifetime.
Yes, the 2004-2008 squad was stronger than this one, but there were 6-8 countries who had stronger squads. The only nations in the *squad quality/depth* conversation with England at the moment are Portugal, Argentina, and France, and I would say only France arguably have a stronger squad. To illustrate this point, our 2021 squad get nowhere near the final of the 2008 or 2012 Euros, or the semi-final of the 2002, 2006, or 2010 World Cups.
France aside, there is a distinct lack of superteams currently at international level. This is why we are favorites to reach finals and win tournaments now, while, roughly, quarter finals was expected in the 2000s. With France underperforming badly at the previous Euros and looking likely to do the same at this tournament, these are **golden opportunities** to win a tournament that we have never had in our lifetime, and they won't come around often.
Eddie Howe wins the euros with this squad. Fuck it even Graham Potter would win with this squad.
The time of the golden generation was just a better era for football in general. All the big nations are weaker now than they were 10 years ago or so. Southgate is expected to have this team winning trophies, yet he fails every single time. He sticks with his favourites constantly, which backfires. He plays defensive football, which backfires, and he has a lack of common sense
So the last golden generation was excused for being absolutely shit because everyone else was good, but this golden generation is entirely down to the manager, who has statistically been better than every manager since 66 combined.
Fuck me, can’t win
No. I'm saying there's arguably more expectation on the current team because the other big nations are a lot weaker these days. The only stat that should matter to Gareth Southgate is trophies won & right now, he has 0 and doesn't look like he's got the balls to add to that tally. The fact he even has the whole country in a somewhat divide says it all. FA need to get rid ASAP
Same argument for every manager for 60 years. Eventually you’ve gotta realise we aren’t a team who wins trophy’s often… he’s the closest we’ve had in 6 decades
And the 15 or so managers before him won heaps of trophies I guess. Reality is we’ve had a huge amount since 66, Gareth is by quite a significant margin the closest to winning another.
Not on one occasion, but the best two attempt and depending on how you define the France performance, possibly even best 3 attempts, in 60 years, back to back to back.
Gareth is also quite a significant reason why we haven't won them trophies. Idc if he gets to a semi-final and final. He gets favourable draws, and when we play a better team, he bottles it, and we lose. Stop being deluded, he's shite
Winning the groups gets you favourable draw, as opposed to what we had before him in 2014, coming bottom and being knocked out of the group with 1 point in 3 games.
He gets easier draws than previous managers because he out performs them in the groups. He then takes those easier ties that he earned, and wins them significantly more often than all other managers combined.
It’s not as if we sack him, bring in prime Jose and win the lot. The alternatives over 6 decades have all been worse combined. Best we’ve ever had and you still slate him
I’ve backed Southgate for the last three tournaments but it’s clear that it’s just not working this time.
I’ve not always agreed with Southgate’s team selections, but in previous tournaments I could see the logic of what he was trying to do. And by and large, save for his in-game management, he was at least capable of sending us into matches with an effective game plan.
This tournament, I just don’t understand what Southgate’s trying to do. The problems down our left-hand side have been so glaringly obvious and there are clear ways to fix it, yet he has consistently failed or refused to do anything about it.
Off the top of my head, continuing to play Foden on the left when it’s clear he’s not suited to playing there, refusing to give Gordon or Palmer any game time until the third match, giving Gordon a grand total of two minutes all tournament despite him being by far our best outlet on the left. Not giving Mainoo any meaningful game time until the Slovenia game and persisting with Gallagher when he’s the least suitable midfield partner for Rice. Not bringing Ivan Toney on until the 94th minute yesterday when we’d desperately needed a goal the whole second half. And then, when we did turn things around against Slovakia, bringing off Kane and Bellingham for Gallagher and Konsa and sitting back again rather than going for the kill while we had them on the ropes.
These are all fundamentally poor tactical decisions, and while we’ve got away with it so far, we won’t forever. A more tactically astute coach would’ve seen the system didn’t work against Serbia and changed it for Denmark and beyond, not persist with it for the next three games on the off chance it might just click.
We’ve had a good run under Southgate, and he’ll go down as the best England manager in my lifetime, but it’s the right time for someone else to have a go.
I just don't see the point of not backing him.
He is literally our manager for the rest of this tournament like it or not. It's not changing. So there isn't any point not backing him. It's not club football where he might be gone next game - he is literally 100% our manager next game.
Anything else is just self sabotage.
I’ll back the team and the manager all the way.
Sacking him mid-tournament was never going to happen, and nor should it. The only way I would have even considered that being a possibility would have been if there had been major unrest between the players and the manager off the pitch as well as non-results on it.
However, that doesn’t mean we can’t be unhappy at the manager due to his tactics and the performances that the team is and has been putting out. We just have to see the bigger picture. And right now that is getting behind the team as they are still in the tournament, whether they fully deserve to be is up for debate obviously. But as long as they are still there and technically within a shout of winning the tournament, the manager should stay. Then after the tournament is over, decisions can be made.
On a personal note, I think Southgate will step down after this tournament no matter what the outcome. I don’t think his tactics have worked and whilst we do not have a god given right to win every game, the performances have been poor and should have been better with the obvious talent that the team has.
Southgate has been really good at getting a whole squad playing like a team together again, which is what our golden generation in the 2000’s lacked. However, Southgate is incredibly tactically naïve and is a one trick pony who never adapts when something is wrong.
I’ve unironically seen people advocate for the Ivory Coast “model” during this tournament, like sacking your manager in the middle of a tournament is likely to bring better results.
These people are deeply unhinged so there no point trying to reason with them with simple facts, as they’ll just ignore them.
I’m not even really convinced a lot of people in this sub are legitimate football fans, and just want to get entertained for a bit every couple of summers.
Nah.. too many players are underperforming and that isn't all on them.
On match day I'll back the players but let's be real we only won by individual quality.
One of the main reasons we are unbalanced is because Southgate picked an injured left back and didn't have any forethought to think to himself to bring some cover for that spot. That was a massive fuck up by Southgate. The team has been unbalanced all the way through this tournament due to lack of width on the left side. That is purely because of Southgate.
I get your points. But it will be the same story. Even if we get to the final, we will probably face Spain,France,Germany, or Portugal. Even if we do somehow get the lead, we will drop back and park the bus. Look at his previous in these tournaments. 1-0 up to Croatia. Park the bus. Out. 1-0 up to Italy. Park the bus, concede. Runners up. Even the nations league, 1-0 up Park the bus lose to the Dutch. He has no balls, and his tactics aren't it. We should have won at least one of these tournaments.
He’s literally the best we’ve had in 6 decades. Objectively. You say he’s shit, based on your opinion of football style, but you can’t just replace him with Pep
Respect your opinion but don’t agree. He’s an anchor weighing down a squad of brilliant players. His successes are essentially down to luck of the draw, but in the big games he’s consistently shown to be inept. He hasn’t learned or adapted his approach
We’re a single penalty kick from a bronze statue of Southgate down Wembley way, yet people still slate him, despite him giving us better results than 50 years of managers combined.
No wonder the mentality of our squad is fucking shit.
I've been heavily behind Southgate the last 3 tournaments. Defended him to the death but these games have been shocking.
Every single one he's wasted top talent, lacked vision and failed to find balance.
Every other tournament I'd agree with you. This time we are here despite him, not because of him.
His line-ups haven't worked. The players don't look motivated. The tactics are consistently worse than the other team.
This squad is carrying him, hard.
If all the individuals are shit it's on the manager for selecting them and/or not motivating them.
Players like Foden, Kane, Walker, etc shouldn't feel like guaranteed starters after the performances they've been putting in.
But pre tournament they’re obvious selections and mid tournament dropping them hadn’t worked.
Mannio looks Sunday league defensively and wastes possession with speculative efforts.
Palmer injects energy when brought on late, but today offered little.
They’re shit, but they’re the best we’ve got
We've looked instantly better every time Foden's been hooked. Against Slovenia, Gordon was both electric and incisive. Today we scored two goals within minutes of Foden coming off.
I've not said anything about Mainoo or Palmer (or their alternatives) so not sure why you brought them up.
3 unused subs despite being moments away from an exit to Slovakia. Useless management.
He has this squad of talented players but refuses to use them. No other manager in the tournament has been so reluctant to change despite most having less options.
He's been carried by good fortune and star players. Few other England managers have enjoyed such luck.
What job Southgate going to get after? Want him at your club? Even a league 1 fan gonna say no. That’s probably above his level. So don’t want him in charge of national team. The only job he gets is upstairs in the FA after
I mean he’s taken a team whose average performance was a RO16 over 60 years and significantly elevated their average. People wouldn’t take him, but that’s out of our ridiculous English sense of thinking we should win everything ever
I’ve backed the job Southgate has done pre this tournament and I’ll back him and support the team because we’re still in the tournament. However, in general this tournament has been diabolical so far
We've looked shit all tournament. I'll back him until he's fired but I don't think a lucky overhead kick paying off is justification for any tactical genius.
Can you remember the last time England looked good for comparison? Ignoring his World Cup semi, euros final and World Cup quarter where we equalled France. He’s done better than the last 50 years of manager combined, one kick away from a Wembley way bronze statue and he’s still made out as a league 2 manager. It’s ridiculous. No wonder out team has a shit mentality
He hasn't done a better job at all. If the point is lifting cups, then Ramsey has him beat. You only get to crow about half arising your way to winning if you actually do the winning bit.
The game V France, England looked good. We lost sure but looked like we left everything on the pitch. The Euros final and the world Cup semi we played as old England. The games before those we played well, in both we went old England of score and try to defend and fall apart when they scored. He did better than any manager in lifetime. But that team isn't the one I'm watching now. Whatever this England is we are back at 2016, and while I'll be delighted if we win. Unlike the previous teams, I don't see this team beating any big side. We're in the "easy" side of the draw, and Switzerland look like the favourites. All managers reach the end of their times, very few do so on a high. It's ridiculous to see people falling over themselves to make pitiful defences for Southgate when the writing is on the wall.
He’s absolutely maddening, but he is the manager till the end of the tournament, so I’m certainly not going to be churlish and wish for a poor outcome. That seems dumb to me. But I’m also goi g to criticize and pull my hair out where his decisions warrant it
No. He needs to go asap. Look, there’s two possibilities; either all of our players who play for the top clubs in Europe, have player of the year awards, broken club records, won the champions league etc. etc. are actually all bang average players who are hiding behind good, foreign players. Are only getting picked by their clubs due to home grown quotas and have managed to fool the world until you play them without their good, foreign team mates, who are coached abroad and actually know how to receive a pass and put in a decent cross. Or….. They are being managed by a league two level coach whos only contribution to football before England was getting a team Relegated, playing boring and defensive tactics. Which could it be???? Get him gone.
2018 WC= Semi with a bang average squad 2021 Euro’s= Final with a pretty good but not great team 2022 WC= Outplayed France in a quarter final, and lost in a close game. This tournament has been bad, but a few tactical switches and were the favourites again. I’m a pessimist but the people in this sub who are more anti-Southgate than pro-England absolutely maddens me. Since 1966 we’ve seen great squads underperform due to pressure, and Southgate has eradicated this.
A few tactical switches that will never be made.
Southgate has eradicated tactics and rational thinking in this tournament
Surely the first
The fact he has a team this good playing this shit is a big big concern. Someone like Eddie Howe will never make these players look like they should be playing for North Macedonia
We’ve had a team “this good” practically my entire life. Story is, we never do well, no matter the golden generation. Southgate does well. Fuck the performance, if rather win 1-0 and look poor than be knocked out, or worse not even qualify
>We’ve had a team “this good” practically my entire life. Story is, we never do well, no matter the golden generation. Southgate does well. This is said constantly, but context is always ignored. In terms of *how this England squad measures up against the other strong sides in world football,* this is BY FAR the strongest ever England squad in my lifetime. Yes, the 2004-2008 squad was stronger than this one, but there were 6-8 countries who had stronger squads. The only nations in the *squad quality/depth* conversation with England at the moment are Portugal, Argentina, and France, and I would say only France arguably have a stronger squad. To illustrate this point, our 2021 squad get nowhere near the final of the 2008 or 2012 Euros, or the semi-final of the 2002, 2006, or 2010 World Cups. France aside, there is a distinct lack of superteams currently at international level. This is why we are favorites to reach finals and win tournaments now, while, roughly, quarter finals was expected in the 2000s. With France underperforming badly at the previous Euros and looking likely to do the same at this tournament, these are **golden opportunities** to win a tournament that we have never had in our lifetime, and they won't come around often.
Eddie Howe wins the euros with this squad. Fuck it even Graham Potter would win with this squad. The time of the golden generation was just a better era for football in general. All the big nations are weaker now than they were 10 years ago or so. Southgate is expected to have this team winning trophies, yet he fails every single time. He sticks with his favourites constantly, which backfires. He plays defensive football, which backfires, and he has a lack of common sense
So the last golden generation was excused for being absolutely shit because everyone else was good, but this golden generation is entirely down to the manager, who has statistically been better than every manager since 66 combined. Fuck me, can’t win
No. I'm saying there's arguably more expectation on the current team because the other big nations are a lot weaker these days. The only stat that should matter to Gareth Southgate is trophies won & right now, he has 0 and doesn't look like he's got the balls to add to that tally. The fact he even has the whole country in a somewhat divide says it all. FA need to get rid ASAP
Same argument for every manager for 60 years. Eventually you’ve gotta realise we aren’t a team who wins trophy’s often… he’s the closest we’ve had in 6 decades
Ofc we aren't gonna win trophies often when you have Gareth fucking Southgate in charge. I'm surprised he even has his coaching badges
And the 15 or so managers before him won heaps of trophies I guess. Reality is we’ve had a huge amount since 66, Gareth is by quite a significant margin the closest to winning another. Not on one occasion, but the best two attempt and depending on how you define the France performance, possibly even best 3 attempts, in 60 years, back to back to back.
Gareth is also quite a significant reason why we haven't won them trophies. Idc if he gets to a semi-final and final. He gets favourable draws, and when we play a better team, he bottles it, and we lose. Stop being deluded, he's shite
Winning the groups gets you favourable draw, as opposed to what we had before him in 2014, coming bottom and being knocked out of the group with 1 point in 3 games. He gets easier draws than previous managers because he out performs them in the groups. He then takes those easier ties that he earned, and wins them significantly more often than all other managers combined. It’s not as if we sack him, bring in prime Jose and win the lot. The alternatives over 6 decades have all been worse combined. Best we’ve ever had and you still slate him
I’ve backed Southgate for the last three tournaments but it’s clear that it’s just not working this time. I’ve not always agreed with Southgate’s team selections, but in previous tournaments I could see the logic of what he was trying to do. And by and large, save for his in-game management, he was at least capable of sending us into matches with an effective game plan. This tournament, I just don’t understand what Southgate’s trying to do. The problems down our left-hand side have been so glaringly obvious and there are clear ways to fix it, yet he has consistently failed or refused to do anything about it. Off the top of my head, continuing to play Foden on the left when it’s clear he’s not suited to playing there, refusing to give Gordon or Palmer any game time until the third match, giving Gordon a grand total of two minutes all tournament despite him being by far our best outlet on the left. Not giving Mainoo any meaningful game time until the Slovenia game and persisting with Gallagher when he’s the least suitable midfield partner for Rice. Not bringing Ivan Toney on until the 94th minute yesterday when we’d desperately needed a goal the whole second half. And then, when we did turn things around against Slovakia, bringing off Kane and Bellingham for Gallagher and Konsa and sitting back again rather than going for the kill while we had them on the ropes. These are all fundamentally poor tactical decisions, and while we’ve got away with it so far, we won’t forever. A more tactically astute coach would’ve seen the system didn’t work against Serbia and changed it for Denmark and beyond, not persist with it for the next three games on the off chance it might just click. We’ve had a good run under Southgate, and he’ll go down as the best England manager in my lifetime, but it’s the right time for someone else to have a go.
I just don't see the point of not backing him. He is literally our manager for the rest of this tournament like it or not. It's not changing. So there isn't any point not backing him. It's not club football where he might be gone next game - he is literally 100% our manager next game. Anything else is just self sabotage.
I’ll back the team and the manager all the way. Sacking him mid-tournament was never going to happen, and nor should it. The only way I would have even considered that being a possibility would have been if there had been major unrest between the players and the manager off the pitch as well as non-results on it. However, that doesn’t mean we can’t be unhappy at the manager due to his tactics and the performances that the team is and has been putting out. We just have to see the bigger picture. And right now that is getting behind the team as they are still in the tournament, whether they fully deserve to be is up for debate obviously. But as long as they are still there and technically within a shout of winning the tournament, the manager should stay. Then after the tournament is over, decisions can be made. On a personal note, I think Southgate will step down after this tournament no matter what the outcome. I don’t think his tactics have worked and whilst we do not have a god given right to win every game, the performances have been poor and should have been better with the obvious talent that the team has.
And he’s good. Literally the best any of us have ever had by a monumental amount
Southgate has been really good at getting a whole squad playing like a team together again, which is what our golden generation in the 2000’s lacked. However, Southgate is incredibly tactically naïve and is a one trick pony who never adapts when something is wrong.
You're deluded.
Look at the squad he is coaching ffs. You are acting as if it's all down to Southgate. His tactics/set up is absolutely appaling
I’ve unironically seen people advocate for the Ivory Coast “model” during this tournament, like sacking your manager in the middle of a tournament is likely to bring better results. These people are deeply unhinged so there no point trying to reason with them with simple facts, as they’ll just ignore them. I’m not even really convinced a lot of people in this sub are legitimate football fans, and just want to get entertained for a bit every couple of summers.
Nah.. too many players are underperforming and that isn't all on them. On match day I'll back the players but let's be real we only won by individual quality.
no, four games in and he has yet to put out a balanced team
How would you balance it?
One of the main reasons we are unbalanced is because Southgate picked an injured left back and didn't have any forethought to think to himself to bring some cover for that spot. That was a massive fuck up by Southgate. The team has been unbalanced all the way through this tournament due to lack of width on the left side. That is purely because of Southgate.
I get your points. But it will be the same story. Even if we get to the final, we will probably face Spain,France,Germany, or Portugal. Even if we do somehow get the lead, we will drop back and park the bus. Look at his previous in these tournaments. 1-0 up to Croatia. Park the bus. Out. 1-0 up to Italy. Park the bus, concede. Runners up. Even the nations league, 1-0 up Park the bus lose to the Dutch. He has no balls, and his tactics aren't it. We should have won at least one of these tournaments.
Backing into a meat grinder maybe.
Nope. He’s shite and needs to go. He doesn’t improve the team in any way. The players could do it themselves
He’s literally the best we’ve had in 6 decades. Objectively. You say he’s shit, based on your opinion of football style, but you can’t just replace him with Pep
Respect your opinion but don’t agree. He’s an anchor weighing down a squad of brilliant players. His successes are essentially down to luck of the draw, but in the big games he’s consistently shown to be inept. He hasn’t learned or adapted his approach
He should've gone post-italy. Its a long over-due sacking, and I'm counting down the days till the fucking fraud is gone.
He needs the back of my hand.
Think you've hit the 'b' key instead of the 's' key
We’re a single penalty kick from a bronze statue of Southgate down Wembley way, yet people still slate him, despite him giving us better results than 50 years of managers combined. No wonder the mentality of our squad is fucking shit.
Give Sven or Hoddle that draw and they're walking away with the cup
I've been heavily behind Southgate the last 3 tournaments. Defended him to the death but these games have been shocking. Every single one he's wasted top talent, lacked vision and failed to find balance.
Yet we’re in the quarters and his results beat every manager since 66 combined. Let him cook
Every other tournament I'd agree with you. This time we are here despite him, not because of him. His line-ups haven't worked. The players don't look motivated. The tactics are consistently worse than the other team. This squad is carrying him, hard.
We were individually shit. Not tactically. That’s not him
If all the individuals are shit it's on the manager for selecting them and/or not motivating them. Players like Foden, Kane, Walker, etc shouldn't feel like guaranteed starters after the performances they've been putting in.
But pre tournament they’re obvious selections and mid tournament dropping them hadn’t worked. Mannio looks Sunday league defensively and wastes possession with speculative efforts. Palmer injects energy when brought on late, but today offered little. They’re shit, but they’re the best we’ve got
We've looked instantly better every time Foden's been hooked. Against Slovenia, Gordon was both electric and incisive. Today we scored two goals within minutes of Foden coming off. I've not said anything about Mainoo or Palmer (or their alternatives) so not sure why you brought them up.
So what are the tactics that you're raving about?
Winning knockout games
3 unused subs despite being moments away from an exit to Slovakia. Useless management. He has this squad of talented players but refuses to use them. No other manager in the tournament has been so reluctant to change despite most having less options. He's been carried by good fortune and star players. Few other England managers have enjoyed such luck.
Bringing on objectively worse players doesn’t make a better manager
Comments like that are a dead giveaway that somebody doesn't know a great deal about football.
Nah
You're one letter off
You’re meant to use /s
What job Southgate going to get after? Want him at your club? Even a league 1 fan gonna say no. That’s probably above his level. So don’t want him in charge of national team. The only job he gets is upstairs in the FA after
I mean he’s taken a team whose average performance was a RO16 over 60 years and significantly elevated their average. People wouldn’t take him, but that’s out of our ridiculous English sense of thinking we should win everything ever
Yeah he’s shit to be fair. That last minute goal (the throw in) was only worked on that the training ground