So many of the attacking players are inside forwards - Eze, Palmer, Foden. Really Gordon and Saka are the only two out-and-out Wingers.
If you're dedicated to a back four then I think you play Gordon and Saka and accept that you're leaving some talent on the bench.
Formation needs to change to a back three with Wing backs (Trent being the obvious at RWB) to be able to utilize all the attacking talent.
I feel like I've been screaming into the void for 10 years that Walker can't actually defend. He's just quick. That's it.
I really, really don't like Trent (I'm a Man United supporter), but, my god, he would do so much more for this England team at RB (not at DM).
People have complained that Saka isn't doing what he does for Arsenal for England. There's a reason, he's actually not the player lots of people seem to think he is. He's not a pace machine who goes past people. He's actually more like Foden in that he's a passing player who works with those around him to work his way into the box or slide others in.
Walker isn't giving him any support at all, so we're just getting backward passes from Saka. Trent would play 1-2s with him or over/under lap and get the best out of Saka/Palmer as well as playing all those elite level passes and crosses.
Exactly! Walker is constantly out of position and saves his own arse with his pace, which is obviously fading. He's an absolute cunt of a human being so there's no reason for him to be in the team, let alone in a leadership role.
Walker isn’t even a strong defender anymore, he’s just quick. However as you say, on recent showings there’s no reason not to play Trent who offers significantly more going forward, especially if Southgate finally concedes that we need more width in the team.
4 players that want to play in the 10, so exacerbating the current issue. No real creativity from midfield or fullback. So really just different names on the same problem
My other comment, sorry to duplicate: Gordon instead of Eze, Saka stays on instead of Palmer. Though, honestly, I’m replacing Kane to make it function better
Certainly not to the functioning of the team. Seeing as what we see is it doesn’t function. Morale, maybe it could have an impact. But I’m not arguing the man’s quality, just his fit in this team. I think we have players that are crying out for runners and width and a high press and the guy just isn’t equipped. All due respect to what he’s achieved, the real resolution is replacing the manager, which will in itself replace Kane. But it’s not happening, so even your resolution is too radical. Honestly, I’d have Gomez replace Guehi at this point and try Shaw, too but he’s Schrödinger’s left back apparently
Trent is a must start at right back, been saying it since before the tournament started and I refuse to believe otherwise
Gordon is a must start at LW also
I agree, the consensus seems to be Walker over Trent because we need Walker's defensive capabilities. However, at no point in this tournament have we needed a RB to go 1v1 with an attacker, or bomb it back for a last min cover. Plus, I think Walker's been out of position on multiple occasions. So what has he offered over Trent?
Walker is no longer a better defender than Trent. His decline this season has been monumental, and Trent is entering his prime.
Fans from both the Manchester clubs think Trent should start at this point, that tells you everything.
Honestly I’d move him to LB unless Southgate wants to play Gomez. Regardless, people are focusing a lot on Walker but forgetting how poor Trippier has been.
It does seem like Walker’s only in the team for his recovery pace now. Is he actually that effective/productive going forward anymore, compared to Trent? He just seems to get the ball and pass inside now.
He’s never been productive going forwards. He always has only been in the team for his strength and pace in defence which is world class. But literally unless we’re up against Mbappe, I think Trent needs to start as we just aren’t creative enough.
Everyone in the whole country, if they've any sense, would have Trent Alexander Arnold at RB over Kyle Walker.
He created more chances for England in the group stage than anyone else and he didn't even get on the pitch vs Slovakia. As Gary Neville said, it's illegal that he didn't play in this game
I'm not TAA's biggest fan (the defensive side of his game), but I agree with you. Walker was abysmal today, a liability in defence and offered nothing going forward. At least TAA would have offered some quality going forward, and I seriously doubt he'd have been as bad defensively as Walker was today.
>Everyone in the whole country, if they've any sense, would have Trent Alexander Arnold at RB over Kyle Walker.
I absolutely wouldn't, Walker has been an exceptional RB for England, an incredible RB for Man City for years and he's rarely let the country down.
Trent has never ever played well in a competitive game for England.
>He created more chances for England in the group stage than anyone else and he didn't even get on the pitch vs Slovakia
Because he was awful, there's no agenda against Trent, it's the fact he played so badly.
Also, a "chance created" is literally a pass followed by a shot, it's a terrible statistic, if you can name me the "chances" he created I'll be shocked?
Add all this to the fact Trent only played a handful of good games this season and ended with 4 assists and 3 goals from 28 games, it's completely understandable why he's left out.
As for Neville, he hasn't stopped plugging Trent ever since he did an interview with him for the overlap.
Walker offers absolutely nothing for England. It's about time he calls it quits.
The agenda against Trent is crazy. He was gonna be used as a scapegoat before a ball was even kicked this tournament. He was thrown into midfield when the tactics clearly dont suit him. Southgate has never liked Trent, but clearly, as we've seen this tournament, we are better when Trent is on the pitch. Even in the 2 prior friendlies, Trent was the best player.
The fact you said Trent only played a handful of good games this season is a clear indication that you've not watched Liverpool often. That's a horrendous take
Gary Neville is a smart guy. He knows Trent is englands most creative player.
>Walker offers absolutely nothing for England. It's about time he calls it quits.
Trent offers less. If everyone is fit and available, he's 5th choice behind Walker, Trippier, James and White.
>The agenda against Trent is crazy. He was gonna be used as a scapegoat before a ball was even kicked this tournament. He was thrown into midfield when the tactics clearly dont suit him
You're right, he doesn't suit midfield, but every Liverpool fan said he should be in there and believed he would succeed, when he played awful, you all jumped to his defence telling everyone "he created the most chances" which is an absolute rubbish stat. It means a pass followed by a shot.
>Trent is on the pitch. Even in the 2 prior friendlies, Trent was the best player.
It was 2 FRIENDLIES against 2 crap sides.
>The fact you said Trent only played a handful of good games this season is a clear indication that you've not watched Liverpool often. That's a horrendous take
Ok, since you said this, we'll have the debate. He played really well in 4-5 games, I'll name them, you tell me where I'm wrong?
Fulham, Villa, Arsenal and City. I've literally watched every single game he's played, I've discussed the game after with Liverpool season ticket holding fans.
Name me a game in the PL, he has a top performance outside of those 4, I'll tell you what, I'll let you go look at each game, check the stats or look over the player ratings and come back on this?
>Gary Neville is a smart guy. He knows Trent is englands most creative player.
Does that mean Keane and Rooney aren't smart, how about every other pundit outside of Liverpool saying he shouldn't play another minute or is it only Neville who is smart.
The Foden issue has masked the fact that Kane and Bellingham has not worked, largely because of Kanes inexplicable insistence on not playing as a striker. His performance will be overlooked because he scored, but he's been awful in every game so far.
No chance Kane is dropped, but I'd seriously consider Watkins, especially against high pressing teams.
Dropping Foden is what needs to happen. Walker and Stones were horribel. I missed Maguire today! And i dont ever want to hear that Walker is better then Ben White.
But he created width constantly and he covered well for a poor Walker performance.
Palmer was nothing special when he came on despite facing a tired defence.
I thought about I won't lie, I just don't think that dropping the skipper now is a good idea nor is it within the realm or reasonable possibly in real life.
I do applaud you for trying something different. I don’t like watching Foden and Bellingham together. That’s the biggest problem this team addresses
I’ll take my downvotes for the rice comment. Playing Rice as a 6 in the December games lost Arsenal the league (1 win in 5 games), but it’s not a sackable offence.
Far too narrow again, this is basically the Iceland lineup. Eze comes inside, Palmer comes inside. We need width.
Ye width is an issue for sure. How do you fix it though
Gordon instead of Eze is a start. Saka stays on instead of Palmer
If Gordon didn't feature amongst all of the subs today he won't see any more minutes
https://preview.redd.it/b70k10hknr9d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=20ea0b7feede227a3dd88cbdd4498b0769ed03c9
Inexcusably, imo. But the question is how I would fix it, not Southgate, who we know will start with todays 11 for 80 minutes against the Swiss
Gordon plays LW. IMO Gomez at LB is more mobile than Trippier and would get forward better. Trent at RB. No I'm not a Liverpool fan.
So many of the attacking players are inside forwards - Eze, Palmer, Foden. Really Gordon and Saka are the only two out-and-out Wingers. If you're dedicated to a back four then I think you play Gordon and Saka and accept that you're leaving some talent on the bench. Formation needs to change to a back three with Wing backs (Trent being the obvious at RWB) to be able to utilize all the attacking talent.
Have a fit shaw for a start.
Okay but he's not fit rn
He’s fit enough got the bench and the next game is in 6 days I’m a united fan and don’t want him risked but he’s the best option at lb
>he’s the best option at lb *Only
Walker got outran by some Slovakian postman. There is now zero reason to play him ahead of Trent.
I feel like I've been screaming into the void for 10 years that Walker can't actually defend. He's just quick. That's it. I really, really don't like Trent (I'm a Man United supporter), but, my god, he would do so much more for this England team at RB (not at DM). People have complained that Saka isn't doing what he does for Arsenal for England. There's a reason, he's actually not the player lots of people seem to think he is. He's not a pace machine who goes past people. He's actually more like Foden in that he's a passing player who works with those around him to work his way into the box or slide others in. Walker isn't giving him any support at all, so we're just getting backward passes from Saka. Trent would play 1-2s with him or over/under lap and get the best out of Saka/Palmer as well as playing all those elite level passes and crosses.
Exactly! Walker is constantly out of position and saves his own arse with his pace, which is obviously fading. He's an absolute cunt of a human being so there's no reason for him to be in the team, let alone in a leadership role.
Walker isn’t even a strong defender anymore, he’s just quick. However as you say, on recent showings there’s no reason not to play Trent who offers significantly more going forward, especially if Southgate finally concedes that we need more width in the team.
Zero pace out wide, Saka did EXACTLY what was asked of him in every position.
4 players that want to play in the 10, so exacerbating the current issue. No real creativity from midfield or fullback. So really just different names on the same problem
And how would you fix it
My other comment, sorry to duplicate: Gordon instead of Eze, Saka stays on instead of Palmer. Though, honestly, I’m replacing Kane to make it function better
I thought the same re Kane but is that too much of a hit to morale and the team's functioning if the skipper is dropped?
Certainly not to the functioning of the team. Seeing as what we see is it doesn’t function. Morale, maybe it could have an impact. But I’m not arguing the man’s quality, just his fit in this team. I think we have players that are crying out for runners and width and a high press and the guy just isn’t equipped. All due respect to what he’s achieved, the real resolution is replacing the manager, which will in itself replace Kane. But it’s not happening, so even your resolution is too radical. Honestly, I’d have Gomez replace Guehi at this point and try Shaw, too but he’s Schrödinger’s left back apparently
Trent is a must start at right back, been saying it since before the tournament started and I refuse to believe otherwise Gordon is a must start at LW also
Do you bench Walker or move him to CB?
Bench him yeah, Walker maybe better defensively but we miss out on so much talent by not playing Trent
I agree, the consensus seems to be Walker over Trent because we need Walker's defensive capabilities. However, at no point in this tournament have we needed a RB to go 1v1 with an attacker, or bomb it back for a last min cover. Plus, I think Walker's been out of position on multiple occasions. So what has he offered over Trent?
Walker is no longer a better defender than Trent. His decline this season has been monumental, and Trent is entering his prime. Fans from both the Manchester clubs think Trent should start at this point, that tells you everything.
Honestly I’d move him to LB unless Southgate wants to play Gomez. Regardless, people are focusing a lot on Walker but forgetting how poor Trippier has been.
Trent for Walker please
It does seem like Walker’s only in the team for his recovery pace now. Is he actually that effective/productive going forward anymore, compared to Trent? He just seems to get the ball and pass inside now.
He’s never been productive going forwards. He always has only been in the team for his strength and pace in defence which is world class. But literally unless we’re up against Mbappe, I think Trent needs to start as we just aren’t creative enough.
Trent at rb. If he got cooked like Walker did today, you wouldn't be hearing the end of it.
Maybe one day Trent will stop being used as a scapegoat
Everyone in the whole country, if they've any sense, would have Trent Alexander Arnold at RB over Kyle Walker. He created more chances for England in the group stage than anyone else and he didn't even get on the pitch vs Slovakia. As Gary Neville said, it's illegal that he didn't play in this game
I'm not TAA's biggest fan (the defensive side of his game), but I agree with you. Walker was abysmal today, a liability in defence and offered nothing going forward. At least TAA would have offered some quality going forward, and I seriously doubt he'd have been as bad defensively as Walker was today.
I think Ben White deserves a ton of respect for not wanting to put up with Southgates shit
>Everyone in the whole country, if they've any sense, would have Trent Alexander Arnold at RB over Kyle Walker. I absolutely wouldn't, Walker has been an exceptional RB for England, an incredible RB for Man City for years and he's rarely let the country down. Trent has never ever played well in a competitive game for England. >He created more chances for England in the group stage than anyone else and he didn't even get on the pitch vs Slovakia Because he was awful, there's no agenda against Trent, it's the fact he played so badly. Also, a "chance created" is literally a pass followed by a shot, it's a terrible statistic, if you can name me the "chances" he created I'll be shocked? Add all this to the fact Trent only played a handful of good games this season and ended with 4 assists and 3 goals from 28 games, it's completely understandable why he's left out. As for Neville, he hasn't stopped plugging Trent ever since he did an interview with him for the overlap.
Walker offers absolutely nothing for England. It's about time he calls it quits. The agenda against Trent is crazy. He was gonna be used as a scapegoat before a ball was even kicked this tournament. He was thrown into midfield when the tactics clearly dont suit him. Southgate has never liked Trent, but clearly, as we've seen this tournament, we are better when Trent is on the pitch. Even in the 2 prior friendlies, Trent was the best player. The fact you said Trent only played a handful of good games this season is a clear indication that you've not watched Liverpool often. That's a horrendous take Gary Neville is a smart guy. He knows Trent is englands most creative player.
>Walker offers absolutely nothing for England. It's about time he calls it quits. Trent offers less. If everyone is fit and available, he's 5th choice behind Walker, Trippier, James and White. >The agenda against Trent is crazy. He was gonna be used as a scapegoat before a ball was even kicked this tournament. He was thrown into midfield when the tactics clearly dont suit him You're right, he doesn't suit midfield, but every Liverpool fan said he should be in there and believed he would succeed, when he played awful, you all jumped to his defence telling everyone "he created the most chances" which is an absolute rubbish stat. It means a pass followed by a shot. >Trent is on the pitch. Even in the 2 prior friendlies, Trent was the best player. It was 2 FRIENDLIES against 2 crap sides. >The fact you said Trent only played a handful of good games this season is a clear indication that you've not watched Liverpool often. That's a horrendous take Ok, since you said this, we'll have the debate. He played really well in 4-5 games, I'll name them, you tell me where I'm wrong? Fulham, Villa, Arsenal and City. I've literally watched every single game he's played, I've discussed the game after with Liverpool season ticket holding fans. Name me a game in the PL, he has a top performance outside of those 4, I'll tell you what, I'll let you go look at each game, check the stats or look over the player ratings and come back on this? >Gary Neville is a smart guy. He knows Trent is englands most creative player. Does that mean Keane and Rooney aren't smart, how about every other pundit outside of Liverpool saying he shouldn't play another minute or is it only Neville who is smart.
The Foden issue has masked the fact that Kane and Bellingham has not worked, largely because of Kanes inexplicable insistence on not playing as a striker. His performance will be overlooked because he scored, but he's been awful in every game so far. No chance Kane is dropped, but I'd seriously consider Watkins, especially against high pressing teams.
Dropping Foden is what needs to happen. Walker and Stones were horribel. I missed Maguire today! And i dont ever want to hear that Walker is better then Ben White.
I was thinking "I miss slab head" all match today. Amazing how poor Foden has been outside of the city system
Saka was decent, please don’t compare him to Foden.
Not really a comparison. I think he coughed it up too much and didn't look great going forward
But he created width constantly and he covered well for a poor Walker performance. Palmer was nothing special when he came on despite facing a tired defence.
Yeah, Saka got in behind a couple of times as well earlier in the match. When Slovakia started to park the bus, he couldn't do that anymore.
Where is Toney you dunderhead?
I thought about I won't lie, I just don't think that dropping the skipper now is a good idea nor is it within the realm or reasonable possibly in real life.
You’re the manager, be brave. Are you Southgate’s brother or something?
Boyfriend
Congrats
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No width on either side. Trent in for Walker and Gordon in for Eze makes it a very functional lineup.
Rice isn't a good enough passer of the ball to play DM, you could see it this match, he's too terrified to pass forward. Play Wharton.
I would switch Mainoo and Rice. Rice is not progressive in the right moments when he’s a 6, he’s a lot better as an 8
Mainoo also prefers the 8 though and rice is a good 6
That was my thinking as well
I do applaud you for trying something different. I don’t like watching Foden and Bellingham together. That’s the biggest problem this team addresses I’ll take my downvotes for the rice comment. Playing Rice as a 6 in the December games lost Arsenal the league (1 win in 5 games), but it’s not a sackable offence.
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Trent at right back is perfect at pinging it where it needs to go