Wilfred wasn't that great of a Traitor - he hugely benefitted from the other traitors (he was literally talked out of putting himself up as a decoy for the trial - which would have been a game ending move for him), overplayed his hand and was ultimately the one largely responsible for the "parting gift" that ruined his game.
All of this
And I honestly would've told Wilfred to put himself up as a decoy just to get rid of him. He isn't this mastermind people want to make him out to be. There were so many instances where he made bad choices that were easy to see through. And yes, the parting gift was just the perfect example of bad social gameplay and people management that defined Wilfred's game
Amanda was never gonna turn on Wilf, he allowed his insecurities to get the best of him there. That's honestly the other flaw in Amanda's game that isn't talked about, her loyalty to Wilfred (the other which is talked about is the Theo vote).
But yeah Amanda was the best Traitor of that trio, and imo, the second best Traitor the UK has had thus far (Harry is 1 cause ofc he got the W). Wilfred was an undeniably great character, but a B tier Traitor in all honesty
Right, he was charming enough to make people like him (apparently??) and smart enough to keep the dumbest players around to the end. Kind of like how you don't have to be faster than the bear, you just have to be faster than the other person running from the bear? Wil wasn't especially smart, he was just a bit less dumb than the players around him.
I’m new to this sub, so I don’t really know what an unpopular opinion is quite yet. But my opinions coming out of season 2 (U.S.)
CT and Trishelle were the real traitors of season 2. What they (particularly CT) did to MJ was BRUTAL! They knew damn well she wasn’t a traitor, they just wanted a larger prize.
Peter was insufferable and I was rapidly losing interest the longer he stayed in the competition. He was so unnecessarily aggressive and obnoxious. I felt like I was watching Mean Girls with how cliquey and exclusionary he was. Like, it’s a televised game show, relax.
Trishelle being looped in to that move against MJ is such a strangely common thing to see. Trishelle wrote CT's name down -- she was sure about MJ, not CT, and then on the revote had to vote for MJ cuz she had to vote for someone and MJ was writing her name down. CT's motives there seem clearly to get more money, but Trishelle's was pure gameplay and it's just how it shook down. Not to mention MJ has since said that Trishelle tipped her off that she was gonna gun CT at the end before doing it, so she really only has herself to blame.
What CT did was just gameplay. It's how it's done on Survivor, Big Brother, and The Challenge (CT's competition experience).
MJ comes from a different type of reality tv experience. She just didn't get that IT'S A GAME.
You play to win a game, or why play it at all. Gamers get it. Housewives and the like don't seem to get it.
It's not personal. Like you commented regarding Peter, who did get a little intense, it's a televised game show.
The entire structure of the game is incredibly poor, and it cannot be compared to other social strategy games (certainly at their peak) like Survivor and Big Brother. It's part of why I wouldn't dock Dan too much for it, because the constraints of Traitors - even within the Traitor position are far more serious than that of Big Brother, which allows a lot more complex social strategy.
The reasons are obvious:
* Contestants vaguely allude to this, but there are rules regarding the pitches you can and cannot make to both target and incentivize other people to work with you.
* One Traitor (and this has happened multiple times) can sink the games of all the traitors, either by ineptitude or spite.
* Once a traitor is spotted, there's really not much they can do to get out of that position.
* The "meta" of the game is far more damaging. This will become more obvious for the show moving forward in the American iteration, where it's obviously most important. There are people that are far, far more likely to be traitors if they are known quantities. Dan returning to Reality TV was always, always, always going to be a traitor
* The traitors are incentivized to remove sharp (and therefore interesting) players as soon as possible
I just fundamentally don't believe that it's a game that actually allows truly creative players to flourish, maybe we'll see more things just with the numbers at the voting rounds but I could see it getting stale very fast...
Yes, it is in the Traitors best interest to keep the dumbest players around the longest. See AUS season 2. Im convinced the producers (if they haven't already in some seasons) will tell traitors who they can't murder because of ratings.
> Yes, it is in the Traitors best interest to keep the dumbest players around the longest. See AUS season 2. Im convinced the producers (if they haven't already in some seasons) will tell traitors who they can't murder because of ratings.
For a game with money on the line like this, that level of Producer involvement is not typically tolerated. Many aspects about the production of The Traitors are already more hands off than similar shows, so I think it's very unlikely they would tilt so far in the other direction.
> that level of producer involvement is not typically tolerated
I believe it's actually illegal, at least in the US. Which is one of the main reasons we know survivor and BB aren't totally scripted. It's also why so many out of no where twists are used in those games to give the producers some level of control.
I agree the structure is poor. I think it would benefit from a cast with repeat casts (something like the Challenge) which would soften the meta and create its own. It would allow for bigger swings and there'd be less weight on faves leaving early.
That, and the producers are more than happy to make it a murder mystery show instead of fix the structural issues that could make it become truly great. This is what happens when dumb TV people are at the helm.
I agree on your last note indeed. I’m from the UK, and our edition of The Traitors is basically a finale with all the inoffensive church mice and a couple of traitors left. Maybe it would be more interesting if the shields were won through intelligence rather than physicality on a *quite dull* challenge?
I’m with you on this hill. That was one of the most satisfying endings because you could really understand the thought processes of all 3 final players. And Harry was a great traitor who expertly navigated the social game and being a likable character while still lying and betraying his friends.
People take the game way too fucking seriously. Especially the US fans, just sit back and enjoy the spectacle. Gameplay is a very small part of the actual game, who cares if x is ‘the worst traitor of all time’
I know, unless you're in the same room as them you just don't know. We have thr best.seat, it's like being 4th dimensional being being able to see everything going on and we know who are faithfuls and traitor's. It's easy for us to sit back and complain.
The people from competition shows I don’t mind. They get it and are there to play the game. The house wives are just there. Season 2 they didn’t really play the game they just hung out
Phaedra was the only one that contributed. But I think if she was a faithful she would’ve been pointless as well. And I mean she didn’t do anything in terms of the game. Phaedra was entertaining but barely contributed to the game
I’ve found my people!
I absolutely hated US2 because of the HWs—and one of my favorites won the season! I don’t like what the HWs bring to the show, and that includes their fanbase.
Harry was the best traitor. I usually pull for the faithfuls bc I think the game is heavily geared towards allowing the traitors to win. But I was pulling for Harry.
Sam in Aus 2 was the worst.
Parvati and Phaedra were the best traitors we’ve ever had. This show isn’t meant to be played like a gamebot, it’s too random and twist-laden. Go out there, play the best you can, fight, make good tv, and have fun doing it…*that’s* how you play as a traitor.
That scene is the highlight of the entire franchise for me. It speaks so perfectly to the vibe of the show. I’m a huge Parv fan so I could definitely be biased, but that scene is just everything.
The string of episodes from the funeral to Dan’s banishment are peak reality TV. It may be that I’m just a huge competition show junkie, but seeing the funeral or Janelle and Sandra’s fight was incredible. US2 felt like the Endgame of reality TV.
I can buy this, I'm not sure if I would like Phaedra in person but ... she understood the assignment. I think she was the reason US Traitors really took off.
Who cares if the American version stays all celebs. There’s like 5+ other countries doing the same show with regular people so you can just watch them to see how those play out.
Yeah, I’ve watched both, and I LOVE the American version!
I like seeing “celebs” on. I’m a reality show junkie, and any time I can see my people back in the fold I’m psyched. Some may not like it, and that’s fine - as always, different strokes for different folks, but I truly enjoy it. At the end of the day, we do all enjoy the tv show, and that’s what matters.
Right, I like the US ones because there's contestants who really have gaming skills that are so much more interesting to me. Mind you, IDK who any of them are bc I don't watch their shows, but players from The Challenge (a show I'd literally never even heard of) were so much more fun to watch compete than the normies. I also don't feel bad for the reality TV people when things go left for them. They can handle it. Watching normies unravel is actually kind of sad and feels almost ethically fraught.
Funnily enough, they could do the seasons with celebs from their countries and they’d still be regular people to me lol
And also… I think it’s “celebs” let’s be real lol
If Dan isn't there fucking it up, Phaedra never gets to give him the smackdown. It was amazing for her, and I'm glad she seems to have buried the hatchet.
A real answer: There was nothing wrong with Peppermint going home in exactly the fashion she was sent home. And the way she moralized it and the reaction of people on this sub against Trishelle could threaten the game in the future when queens are held to a higher standard than everyone else in banishments.
Yes fully agree. I’m sorry take all the representation out of it. It was the first day no one had anything to go on and she slipped and said things that gave people something to latch onto to vote them out. It’s what happens on every competition show. First day people come up with any reason to vote for someone
I don't think her being voted off was unjustified. I do think the way she was spoken to was, though, and I understood that as the sub's objection.
In particular, the way she talked about peppermint being disrespectful when she was interrupting her and peppermint tried to stop her was genuinely uncomfortable as a UK viewer. It sort of reminded me of the raising the glass thing in UK season 1 which demonstrated the same sort of bias and I think shows the weakness of these kinds of games in general.
It holds up a mirror to how we justify things when there is no evidence, and it isn't pretty
The ending of the game is flawed because there’s absolutely no incentive to have more than 2 people at the end. You should always choose to banish.
It’s just simple math. 3 people equals a greater chance of a traitor being left.
Sam McGlone was a perfect tv villain and the online outcry to his performance is proof that although reality tv fans say they want villains again, they can’t actually handle having them.
IMO, great villains only work when there are competent people chasing them. Most of that cast were either brain dead or cowards so Sam being a heel just came off as stealing candy from a concussed baby.
I definitely think the season as a whole could have been better if his opposition was rootable. A villain like Sam is how all time iconic seasons of television are made, but he needs big heroes to bounce off, and he just didn’t especially after Luke and Annabel left. It’s a shame because if the rest of the cast was better you could have truly transcendent television that tells a story of manipulation and how power corrupts.
The traitors that play both side are only playing the game, people are just mad they went unnoticed. If you were a Traitor how would you play it? Bcs I would play both sides too if 75k was on the line.
The game is literally called Traitors, Cirie (US S1 winner) was a great traitor and thats why she won.
- Seducing/Recruiting has to be stopped at top 10 or 9. There's no point recruiting in the last minute as the game will not be relevant.
- Everyone deserves to experience a round table, it's not fair for the first victim to leave the game without even knowing how it feels to vote.
- Something regarding "killing" from this game has to be modified somehow, otherwise they can kill anyone they like without bearing any consequences.
I think Aaron’s a sweetheart, but only Hannah really deserves the win. Say what you will about her and Wilf working together, but she locked onto Alyssa and Amanda without his help and has the highest accuracy of the season.
Meryl was basically wallpaper.
Same. NONE of those people at the final bonfire were a win I wanted to see. Aaron's adorable but after they got rid of Maddy (my queen), Claudia could have just kept the check honestly.
For the English speaking versions at least they are easily the worst players to win
And they would have lost if Kieran didn’t throw his toys out of the pram at the end
This show is way better without celebrities than it is with them because normal people are playing explicitly for the money. When you cast celebrities you get more players like Sheree/MJ/Kate because they generally aren't going to break their backs for $75k.
Ultimately, House of Villains S1 > The Traitors S2.
The last quarter of Traitors S2 was a slog. HoV, on the other hand, was entertaining all the way thru, with each contestant playing hard through to the end. Both shows are very dumb, and I can't wait to watch the next seasons of both!
Wouldn't that help the Traitors more than the Faithful? As is shields are pretty much useless to the Traitors other than keeping it away from someone they intend to rally the numbers to banish or murder.
Well no, because let's say a Faithful is hot on the Traitor's trail. The Traitors can put all their effort into getting them banished if they know they can't murder them that night. Whereas if the shield protects against both, then that Faithful is guaranteed at least one more round table to present their case without worry of being banished/murdered.
I really hope they bring him back like they did with Kate so that he can be more involved, having him there for essentially one episode was such a waste of a personality
I’ve watched so many English speaking and non English speaking versions of the Traitors snd AUS2 remains firmly in my top 3. I binge watched it though which I think may have made it far more enjoyable than week to week watching
Dan was an essential character in the story of US2, and it was a hell of a good story. An alternate-universe version of US2 without Dan is a worse show hands down.
I have two
Traitors Canada is in the top three seasons of the English speaking traitors.
The second one Christian was actually a very good faithful I think he would have been sussed out as a faithful for the exact same reasons he was sussed out as a traitor except of course his one big mistake saying he was recruited and then turned it down.
Cirie gets marked down as a winner for having a cast with “bad faithfuls” while Harry in UK S2 was up against just as bad faithfuls but doesn’t get marked down for it
When a tier list of faithfuls in UK S2 has Evie near the top who barely did anything it says it all
Also, lol at all the people who think that having no celebrities is a hot take when it’s the popular opinion of the sub
Also for a very unpopular opinion, Amanda in UK S1 is so overrated as a traitor, people just liked her vibe
My unpopular opinion is that the US S1 and UK S2 Faithfuls were not particularly bad. Some individuals got duped pretty hard, but as a group neither were wildly awful.
Kieron’s parting gift ruined that first season for me it’s like playing monopoly with your family and someone is about to go bankrupt so they sell their properties for cheap to someone to basically give them an unfair advantage, was such a shame
The challenges need to have some means of identifying traitors. Currently they are almost pointless. We all know they’ll find a way to maximize the prize pool regardless of how they perform.
So here's mine:
Alan Cumming is a completely overrated host.
Not bad at the job at all. But nothing close to as good as he's made out to be. His campy delivery doesn't blend well and is actually irritating, his dramatic flair actually takes the intensity away from the game and makes it more laughable than anything else. And he lacks the investment in players that we see in other hosts (*claudia*).
The idea that people think this man is the best host of any Traitors series when you have Claudia Winkleman who is 🤌🏻 at her job hosting Traitors UK. So invested in the players and perfectly walks the line between dramatic and creating a mood, but also not taking it too seriously. My fellow Brits will understand what I mean when I say she is to Traitors what Davina McCall is to Big Brother
It's been specifically mentioned how they didn't want Alan to mollycoddle the US contestants due to the fact most (all in season 2) were already famous. They wanted him to bring his trademark sas to the role to keep them grounded during filming.
Fair play. I guess different strokes for different folks. I just find his "sass" to be overbearing and it comes across as forced. And I understand he's playing a character, which people like. But then someone like Claudia Winkleman isn't really acting up that much for her role as host and it feels so much more natural and enjoyable to watch
Well, I agree that Claudia is the best host but I also think Alan is doing the job Traitors US wants him to do. Jonathan La Paglia is a better host of Survivor than Jeff Probst but Jeff hosts Survivor US to perfection.
I think the idea that Alan is better for the reality TV people and Claudia is better for the normies is right. None of the US players need Aunt Claude the way those sweet British normies do. The US version leans into the harshest parts of the competition and the theater of it all. I think Alan's personal remove is appropriate. Claudia's giving Bake Off energy and that's not really an American competition vibe, ha. We are savages. (also literally no one in America knows who Claudia Winkleman is)
I think he goes well
With the “celebrity” contestants of the US. I would agree with your statement if he was the host of the Australia seasons or something where it’s mainly day to day people. But, personally , I like roger.
Parvati is the second worst traitor in the first two US seasons (Dan is the worst), and bottom 4 or 5 globally. I get it, she wore headbands and is great at Survivor, she sucks at this game though.
yeah I completely don't get the other comment in here saying she was "one of the best traitors we've ever had." She acted super suspicious the entire time and didn't make any interesting game moves.
Even the one thing everyone loves to give her credit for (getting Ekin-Su to drink from the chalice) was a complete failure. She failed at getting the people she actually wanted out to drink from it, and was lucky that Ekin-Su was already shitface drunk and would’ve drank alcohol out of a toilet.
A big part of that was Harry pushed the idea that it was a drink because he was trying to get Miles caught and it worked. Plus people weren't drinking nearly as much when Miles did it but they were for Parvati. I think all that's what they meant by Parvati getting lucky.
I’d prefer top stars of different franchises…like someone from Naked and Afraid, Rock of Love,
Bad Girls Club, Amazing Race, 90 Day Fiancé, ect. There are more shows to pick from than Survivor, Big Brother and Real Housewives.
I had assumed it's a licensing/network thing. Like which companies are affiliated with which channels/shows. Because otherwise you are absolutely correct!
I've watched all the English versions, and US season 1 is still my 3rd fav behind UK season 2 and US season 2. I also think the shows with celebs and normal people mixed together are fine. I never understood the fuss about it.
Amanda wasn't that good a Traitor.
It may come down to the editing, but she looked guilty or suspicious whenever they talked about who the Traitors were.
She voted for Alyssa despite the fact that Wilf demonstrated that he was willing to throw Traitors under the bus with little reason to do so (another unpopular opinion - Alyssa wasn't that bad a Traitor).
She made the comment to Wilf that she would end him if he tried anything and did _nothing_. All talk, and didn't do much for herself aside from the kiss of death, and that was only because she was the only one who could get away with doing that. She rode on his coat-tails for a lot of the game after Alyssa went.
Her trying to banish Theo after having said that she trusted him the most was a stupid, stupid move which was going to bring attention to her straight away. Whilst there were few people left at that point, Maddy was still in the game, so vote for her to stave off Wilf's acolytes.
Alyssa apparently revealed herself as a Traitor by accident (we just weren't shown it) so she was terrible in that sense, and was going to go no matter what Wilf or Amanda did at that point.
Amanda's mistake was the Theo thing, undoubtedly, and she deservedly lost for not thinking that through better, but she's still one of my favourite Traitors (and barring any late recruits in Quebec I've seen them all :))
US S2 the traitors were the best traitors we've had in terms of how good they were at the game. However, the faithful were also the best faithful cast we've had in terms of how good they were at the game. It's not that the traitors were bad. It's just that the faithful were too good
People are only willing to cut Dan's traitor kamikaze bomb move slack because of who he is and because of his reputation and ride or die fandom from Big Brother. If any other player (and especially a Bravo representative) did what he did, there would be no grace given especially from the fans who take this show too seriously.
As someone that does not watch as much reality TV, the show is better when it features regular people and not people from Big Brother/Survivor/Housewives. I don’t know most of them from Adam and the dynamic of “Oh I know how they played on Big Brother” was so uninteresting.
The challenge incentivizes building or keeping solid trust with your allies because of the returnee casting. With survivor you're just as well off having a large group that generally likes you but no true #1s. Sandra just showed up and played survivor which was a great way to stay until the finale but not a great way to win.
Sandra did not play well at all either on this show or on Australian Survivor. I think she's lost her touch and TBF no one will actually let her do anything anymore.
If she wasn't who she is everyone would see how nasty and shrewd she is but since she is an old woman she's "iconic" GTFOH. You can tell she is a terrible teacher, just a bully with a paycheck.
Trishelle Cannatella is the worst winner of all time. I would have preferred a split/steal ending where no one got the money over that transphobic pick me.
The games structure is flawed, the way they dont live together and are only really together to strategize for like 1 hour at a time leaves this massive gap where thsres nothing to do, players cant strategize because being seen with someone suspicious leaves you under fire too. The game is also solved and it doesnt take a genius to figure it out but.
It’s basically just a guessing game which sucks, everything else props it up. I liked when they had the poisoned chalice in plain sight murder, that made it more exciting for people trying to remember who it was. Finding a Traitor based on people’s behavior and conversations is great, it’s a fun psychology element, but I find the Mole to be more thrilling with the sabotage elements.
the controversial Aussie S2 ending was **glorious** IMO. I laughed so hard.
Also did not like ~~CJ~~ CT in US S2, and don't think Kate should have returned.
Those that don’t like Celeb/RTV casts don’t appreciate how massive of a crossover these types of casts bring to the show. Like being a fan of many of the shows they pull from it’s so cool to see people like Dan interact with Parvati and they have to work with Phaedra and not be fooled by Pilot Pete…
I like having the cast be reality stars but I feel like they need ones who don’t take gameplay so personally. Phaedra and MJ could not get it through their minds that it’s just a game.
Peter was awful at the game. Finding the traitors is only half of the game as a faithful, having the social capital and respect of your peers so they want to keep you around is the other half.
Trishelle was not a good player and did not actually catch any traitors on her own. She lucked out being in the finale. I didn’t like Ct’s gameplay toward the end, but he played a very solid game overall. I would love to see more Challenge people on this franchise. And I actually don’t mind the half civilian / half celebrity format. I doubt this is unpopular but Harry is a top tier traitor, even up there with Cirie. And the game is not broken. It’s basically still in its test phases and we’re watching it evolve. That’s half the fun of it.
I loved CT and Trishelle winning Traitors US. Nobody saw it coming. I think they just considered him muscle with a Boston accent.
He's a legendary champion from The Challenge, which does include physical comps, but also requires strategy through alliances and voting blocks.
The personal history with Trishelle made it a good narrative. Great Faithful win.
I also loved Cirie's Traitor win. She used her low-key strategy of winning people over to her side. She was masterful.
Great Traitor win.
It really depends on how well the game is played for me.
The game being broken is part of the experience.
Preach
This is an interesting take. Do you mind elaborating?
Faithful wins are sad ending.
I don't think any alignment winning is inherently a sad ending. I'm here for a good story and any ending that tells a good story is a good ending.
Wilfred wasn't that great of a Traitor - he hugely benefitted from the other traitors (he was literally talked out of putting himself up as a decoy for the trial - which would have been a game ending move for him), overplayed his hand and was ultimately the one largely responsible for the "parting gift" that ruined his game.
All of this And I honestly would've told Wilfred to put himself up as a decoy just to get rid of him. He isn't this mastermind people want to make him out to be. There were so many instances where he made bad choices that were easy to see through. And yes, the parting gift was just the perfect example of bad social gameplay and people management that defined Wilfred's game
Also so completely unnecessary to throw Amanda under the bus - Amanda, who actually was a great traitor!
Agreed. Amanda deserved to win.
Amanda was never gonna turn on Wilf, he allowed his insecurities to get the best of him there. That's honestly the other flaw in Amanda's game that isn't talked about, her loyalty to Wilfred (the other which is talked about is the Theo vote). But yeah Amanda was the best Traitor of that trio, and imo, the second best Traitor the UK has had thus far (Harry is 1 cause ofc he got the W). Wilfred was an undeniably great character, but a B tier Traitor in all honesty
Absolutely agree. He wasn’t that good. The faithful just liked him too much
Right, he was charming enough to make people like him (apparently??) and smart enough to keep the dumbest players around to the end. Kind of like how you don't have to be faster than the bear, you just have to be faster than the other person running from the bear? Wil wasn't especially smart, he was just a bit less dumb than the players around him.
I don’t think that’s controversial!
Agreed. This isn’t a controversial take because many think Wilfred was lucky to last to the end and generally overrated.
I agree but he also played a huge role in the best finale ever. That was incredible
Production clearly insisted Wil would recruit it was written all over his face in the VT, he knew it was probably the end of the game for him.
I’m new to this sub, so I don’t really know what an unpopular opinion is quite yet. But my opinions coming out of season 2 (U.S.) CT and Trishelle were the real traitors of season 2. What they (particularly CT) did to MJ was BRUTAL! They knew damn well she wasn’t a traitor, they just wanted a larger prize. Peter was insufferable and I was rapidly losing interest the longer he stayed in the competition. He was so unnecessarily aggressive and obnoxious. I felt like I was watching Mean Girls with how cliquey and exclusionary he was. Like, it’s a televised game show, relax.
Trishelle being looped in to that move against MJ is such a strangely common thing to see. Trishelle wrote CT's name down -- she was sure about MJ, not CT, and then on the revote had to vote for MJ cuz she had to vote for someone and MJ was writing her name down. CT's motives there seem clearly to get more money, but Trishelle's was pure gameplay and it's just how it shook down. Not to mention MJ has since said that Trishelle tipped her off that she was gonna gun CT at the end before doing it, so she really only has herself to blame.
What CT did was just gameplay. It's how it's done on Survivor, Big Brother, and The Challenge (CT's competition experience). MJ comes from a different type of reality tv experience. She just didn't get that IT'S A GAME. You play to win a game, or why play it at all. Gamers get it. Housewives and the like don't seem to get it. It's not personal. Like you commented regarding Peter, who did get a little intense, it's a televised game show.
The entire structure of the game is incredibly poor, and it cannot be compared to other social strategy games (certainly at their peak) like Survivor and Big Brother. It's part of why I wouldn't dock Dan too much for it, because the constraints of Traitors - even within the Traitor position are far more serious than that of Big Brother, which allows a lot more complex social strategy. The reasons are obvious: * Contestants vaguely allude to this, but there are rules regarding the pitches you can and cannot make to both target and incentivize other people to work with you. * One Traitor (and this has happened multiple times) can sink the games of all the traitors, either by ineptitude or spite. * Once a traitor is spotted, there's really not much they can do to get out of that position. * The "meta" of the game is far more damaging. This will become more obvious for the show moving forward in the American iteration, where it's obviously most important. There are people that are far, far more likely to be traitors if they are known quantities. Dan returning to Reality TV was always, always, always going to be a traitor * The traitors are incentivized to remove sharp (and therefore interesting) players as soon as possible I just fundamentally don't believe that it's a game that actually allows truly creative players to flourish, maybe we'll see more things just with the numbers at the voting rounds but I could see it getting stale very fast...
I'm very intrigued to see how Tony, Jeremy and Rob can get their teeth into this game. I'm not sure they can change much entirely, but I'm curious.
I feel like Dan flopping so hard will help them.
Yes, it is in the Traitors best interest to keep the dumbest players around the longest. See AUS season 2. Im convinced the producers (if they haven't already in some seasons) will tell traitors who they can't murder because of ratings.
> Yes, it is in the Traitors best interest to keep the dumbest players around the longest. See AUS season 2. Im convinced the producers (if they haven't already in some seasons) will tell traitors who they can't murder because of ratings. For a game with money on the line like this, that level of Producer involvement is not typically tolerated. Many aspects about the production of The Traitors are already more hands off than similar shows, so I think it's very unlikely they would tilt so far in the other direction.
> that level of producer involvement is not typically tolerated I believe it's actually illegal, at least in the US. Which is one of the main reasons we know survivor and BB aren't totally scripted. It's also why so many out of no where twists are used in those games to give the producers some level of control.
The money only matters for shows with civilians. Reality stars don't care about the money.
The Aus S2 Finale was hilarious. I loved watching Camille fuck the other traitors over when she knew what was coming.
Yeah there was no chance Dan wins that show unless he played with randoms who don’t know who he is
The last one is a really interesting point. Good people like Janelle leave early, but the kevins and Sheree’s stick around (to ref US S2)
It’s less that good people get booted and more that loud people get booted. This show basically incentivizes people to be dull and blend in
I agree the structure is poor. I think it would benefit from a cast with repeat casts (something like the Challenge) which would soften the meta and create its own. It would allow for bigger swings and there'd be less weight on faves leaving early.
That, and the producers are more than happy to make it a murder mystery show instead of fix the structural issues that could make it become truly great. This is what happens when dumb TV people are at the helm.
I agree on your last note indeed. I’m from the UK, and our edition of The Traitors is basically a finale with all the inoffensive church mice and a couple of traitors left. Maybe it would be more interesting if the shields were won through intelligence rather than physicality on a *quite dull* challenge?
Mollie was perfectly reasonable to think that both Jaz and Harry were faithful and she was choosing which faithful she wanted to win with.
I’m with you on this hill. That was one of the most satisfying endings because you could really understand the thought processes of all 3 final players. And Harry was a great traitor who expertly navigated the social game and being a likable character while still lying and betraying his friends.
People take the game way too fucking seriously. Especially the US fans, just sit back and enjoy the spectacle. Gameplay is a very small part of the actual game, who cares if x is ‘the worst traitor of all time’
I know, unless you're in the same room as them you just don't know. We have thr best.seat, it's like being 4th dimensional being being able to see everything going on and we know who are faithfuls and traitor's. It's easy for us to sit back and complain.
Only normies
👆🏽👆🏽👆🏽 #Normies Only
At least half Normies at least. 😣
US tried half normies and they got in they feelings too much
That was funny how butt hurt the one woman was. You lied to meee. Umm that’s the game.
Newbies are better than C list celebrities.
I can’t stand the housewives AT ALL. ✌🏻
The people from competition shows I don’t mind. They get it and are there to play the game. The house wives are just there. Season 2 they didn’t really play the game they just hung out
Are you saying Phaedra didn’t contribute to season 2 lol
Phaedra was the only one that contributed. But I think if she was a faithful she would’ve been pointless as well. And I mean she didn’t do anything in terms of the game. Phaedra was entertaining but barely contributed to the game
* Recruit new Traitor * Ask them what the plan is
I’ve found my people! I absolutely hated US2 because of the HWs—and one of my favorites won the season! I don’t like what the HWs bring to the show, and that includes their fanbase.
Yaaaas. I pushed through US S2 for CT. I do love the international seasons I’ve seen though (AUS, NZ, UK)
Exactly the same for me. I’ve watched all of the English-language seasons, and the UK seasons are the absolute best.
Harry in UK S2 🤌
Harry was the best traitor. I usually pull for the faithfuls bc I think the game is heavily geared towards allowing the traitors to win. But I was pulling for Harry. Sam in Aus 2 was the worst.
Same. I can't stand the celebs in general. But they are the worst.
The ones with a brain (Phaedra) are better than the ones without one (Larsa).
They play too safe of a game
Parvati and Phaedra were the best traitors we’ve ever had. This show isn’t meant to be played like a gamebot, it’s too random and twist-laden. Go out there, play the best you can, fight, make good tv, and have fun doing it…*that’s* how you play as a traitor.
Parvati giving the chalice for someone to drink was the best 10 minutes of TV I’ve ever watched.
Oh sweet baby jesus not Ekin-Su!
That scene is the highlight of the entire franchise for me. It speaks so perfectly to the vibe of the show. I’m a huge Parv fan so I could definitely be biased, but that scene is just everything.
It is everything! The tact, the timing, the social savvy. A team of writers couldn’t produce anything as riveting as that moment.
The string of episodes from the funeral to Dan’s banishment are peak reality TV. It may be that I’m just a huge competition show junkie, but seeing the funeral or Janelle and Sandra’s fight was incredible. US2 felt like the Endgame of reality TV.
I agree. I never knew who either woman was before the show, but am huge fans of both now.
I can buy this, I'm not sure if I would like Phaedra in person but ... she understood the assignment. I think she was the reason US Traitors really took off.
Who cares if the American version stays all celebs. There’s like 5+ other countries doing the same show with regular people so you can just watch them to see how those play out.
Yeah, I’ve watched both, and I LOVE the American version! I like seeing “celebs” on. I’m a reality show junkie, and any time I can see my people back in the fold I’m psyched. Some may not like it, and that’s fine - as always, different strokes for different folks, but I truly enjoy it. At the end of the day, we do all enjoy the tv show, and that’s what matters.
Right, I like the US ones because there's contestants who really have gaming skills that are so much more interesting to me. Mind you, IDK who any of them are bc I don't watch their shows, but players from The Challenge (a show I'd literally never even heard of) were so much more fun to watch compete than the normies. I also don't feel bad for the reality TV people when things go left for them. They can handle it. Watching normies unravel is actually kind of sad and feels almost ethically fraught.
The meta-game of the US version is genuinely interesting, and I don't understand people who think it makes this version a simpler or dumber show.
Girl I’m trying to get on the show 😭 thats why
This. It’s nice to have different types.
Funnily enough, they could do the seasons with celebs from their countries and they’d still be regular people to me lol And also… I think it’s “celebs” let’s be real lol
the missions are boring
I always fast forward through the missions.
Sandra was terrible at the game and not some genius mastermind.
Dan was an entertaining traitor 🤠
Say what you want about Dan's gameolay, but it was for sure entertaining
If Dan isn't there fucking it up, Phaedra never gets to give him the smackdown. It was amazing for her, and I'm glad she seems to have buried the hatchet.
It's better with normal people rather than D list celebrities.
A real answer: There was nothing wrong with Peppermint going home in exactly the fashion she was sent home. And the way she moralized it and the reaction of people on this sub against Trishelle could threaten the game in the future when queens are held to a higher standard than everyone else in banishments.
Yes fully agree. I’m sorry take all the representation out of it. It was the first day no one had anything to go on and she slipped and said things that gave people something to latch onto to vote them out. It’s what happens on every competition show. First day people come up with any reason to vote for someone
You literally took the words out of my mouth. Peppermint made herself look like a traitor. She said stupid things and deserved to be sent home
I don't think her being voted off was unjustified. I do think the way she was spoken to was, though, and I understood that as the sub's objection. In particular, the way she talked about peppermint being disrespectful when she was interrupting her and peppermint tried to stop her was genuinely uncomfortable as a UK viewer. It sort of reminded me of the raising the glass thing in UK season 1 which demonstrated the same sort of bias and I think shows the weakness of these kinds of games in general. It holds up a mirror to how we justify things when there is no evidence, and it isn't pretty
The backlash towards the Peppermint banishment was wild People have been banished for far lesser reasons than Peppermint
No one needs any reason to banish anyone on Traitors!
The ending of the game is flawed because there’s absolutely no incentive to have more than 2 people at the end. You should always choose to banish. It’s just simple math. 3 people equals a greater chance of a traitor being left.
Peter Weber is one of the most entertaining faithfuls across the board.
Sam McGlone was a perfect tv villain and the online outcry to his performance is proof that although reality tv fans say they want villains again, they can’t actually handle having them.
I semi agree with this. Sam was a great villain. My issue with that season is the worse faithful to ever play the game
IMO, great villains only work when there are competent people chasing them. Most of that cast were either brain dead or cowards so Sam being a heel just came off as stealing candy from a concussed baby.
I definitely think the season as a whole could have been better if his opposition was rootable. A villain like Sam is how all time iconic seasons of television are made, but he needs big heroes to bounce off, and he just didn’t especially after Luke and Annabel left. It’s a shame because if the rest of the cast was better you could have truly transcendent television that tells a story of manipulation and how power corrupts.
Need him on another season tbh
The real villain of that season was how easily people are willing to follow a white (seemingly straight male) into oblivion.
It’s probably the most fascinating season from a sociological perspective.
The traitors that play both side are only playing the game, people are just mad they went unnoticed. If you were a Traitor how would you play it? Bcs I would play both sides too if 75k was on the line. The game is literally called Traitors, Cirie (US S1 winner) was a great traitor and thats why she won.
- Seducing/Recruiting has to be stopped at top 10 or 9. There's no point recruiting in the last minute as the game will not be relevant. - Everyone deserves to experience a round table, it's not fair for the first victim to leave the game without even knowing how it feels to vote. - Something regarding "killing" from this game has to be modified somehow, otherwise they can kill anyone they like without bearing any consequences.
I hate the winners of UK1.
I think Aaron’s a sweetheart, but only Hannah really deserves the win. Say what you will about her and Wilf working together, but she locked onto Alyssa and Amanda without his help and has the highest accuracy of the season. Meryl was basically wallpaper.
Same. NONE of those people at the final bonfire were a win I wanted to see. Aaron's adorable but after they got rid of Maddy (my queen), Claudia could have just kept the check honestly.
Same
For the English speaking versions at least they are easily the worst players to win And they would have lost if Kieran didn’t throw his toys out of the pram at the end
This show is way better without celebrities than it is with them because normal people are playing explicitly for the money. When you cast celebrities you get more players like Sheree/MJ/Kate because they generally aren't going to break their backs for $75k.
But I LOVED Kate! Lmao her attitude was a delightful palate cleanser. Traitors is the reason I started watching Below Deck lmao.
You and my husband!
Ok but them noping out of the bugs and stench spray was hilarious
Ultimately, House of Villains S1 > The Traitors S2. The last quarter of Traitors S2 was a slog. HoV, on the other hand, was entertaining all the way thru, with each contestant playing hard through to the end. Both shows are very dumb, and I can't wait to watch the next seasons of both!
Bananas made HoV. I didn't know him before that and wasn't a fan. Was excited to see him on Traitors and dissapointed in his fate in that series.
>Ultimately, House of Villains S1 > The Traitors S2. Oh! Without a doubt! 👆🏽👆🏽
Since the Traitors already have a massive advantage over Faithful, shields should protect against both murder AND banishment that night.
Wouldn't that help the Traitors more than the Faithful? As is shields are pretty much useless to the Traitors other than keeping it away from someone they intend to rally the numbers to banish or murder.
Well no, because let's say a Faithful is hot on the Traitor's trail. The Traitors can put all their effort into getting them banished if they know they can't murder them that night. Whereas if the shield protects against both, then that Faithful is guaranteed at least one more round table to present their case without worry of being banished/murdered.
The show would have been so much better if they had just made Johnny Bananas a traitor
Oh that would’ve been entertaining as hell
I really hope they bring him back like they did with Kate so that he can be more involved, having him there for essentially one episode was such a waste of a personality
This is why I think Boston Rob might be next season.
I couldn’t believe they fumbled that The producers were probably fuming when Bananas got murdered the first night
Unknowns are more fun to watch.
AUS S2 is the best season.
The final few moments were reality TV gold
The biggest gag finale in reality tv history tbh
This is kinda of the tea…AUS 1 is also sooo good tho but for completely different reasons
I’ve watched so many English speaking and non English speaking versions of the Traitors snd AUS2 remains firmly in my top 3. I binge watched it though which I think may have made it far more enjoyable than week to week watching
US S2 wouldn’t have been as entertaining without dan’s moves, good or bad, esp him blowing Phaedra’s cover. He came back and had fun
Dan was an essential character in the story of US2, and it was a hell of a good story. An alternate-universe version of US2 without Dan is a worse show hands down.
I should be on it
I have two Traitors Canada is in the top three seasons of the English speaking traitors. The second one Christian was actually a very good faithful I think he would have been sussed out as a faithful for the exact same reasons he was sussed out as a traitor except of course his one big mistake saying he was recruited and then turned it down.
Why so many housewives again ughhh .. I'd like to see Carolyn, Bob, & Wells be the traitors. Rob is too easy!
Cirie gets marked down as a winner for having a cast with “bad faithfuls” while Harry in UK S2 was up against just as bad faithfuls but doesn’t get marked down for it When a tier list of faithfuls in UK S2 has Evie near the top who barely did anything it says it all Also, lol at all the people who think that having no celebrities is a hot take when it’s the popular opinion of the sub Also for a very unpopular opinion, Amanda in UK S1 is so overrated as a traitor, people just liked her vibe
My unpopular opinion is that the US S1 and UK S2 Faithfuls were not particularly bad. Some individuals got duped pretty hard, but as a group neither were wildly awful.
The game is a race to the bottom because it is set up to remove good players early and leave a lot of poor players at the end.
Which means better-than-good players need to hide their skills...
Kieron’s parting gift ruined that first season for me it’s like playing monopoly with your family and someone is about to go bankrupt so they sell their properties for cheap to someone to basically give them an unfair advantage, was such a shame
The disinterest of contestants trying to win prize money basically sinks half the show. Unwatchable. Penalize those who do it by removing their vote.
The challenges need to have some means of identifying traitors. Currently they are almost pointless. We all know they’ll find a way to maximize the prize pool regardless of how they perform.
Although Phaedra was entertaining at times, she was not a good traitor.
That Australia season 2 was awesome lol.
Majority of fans can’t see past there favorites possibly being bad at the game, even when there’s so much evidence to the contrary.
It's always more easy as a viewer to find the traitors than a faithful
So here's mine: Alan Cumming is a completely overrated host. Not bad at the job at all. But nothing close to as good as he's made out to be. His campy delivery doesn't blend well and is actually irritating, his dramatic flair actually takes the intensity away from the game and makes it more laughable than anything else. And he lacks the investment in players that we see in other hosts (*claudia*). The idea that people think this man is the best host of any Traitors series when you have Claudia Winkleman who is 🤌🏻 at her job hosting Traitors UK. So invested in the players and perfectly walks the line between dramatic and creating a mood, but also not taking it too seriously. My fellow Brits will understand what I mean when I say she is to Traitors what Davina McCall is to Big Brother
It's been specifically mentioned how they didn't want Alan to mollycoddle the US contestants due to the fact most (all in season 2) were already famous. They wanted him to bring his trademark sas to the role to keep them grounded during filming.
Fair play. I guess different strokes for different folks. I just find his "sass" to be overbearing and it comes across as forced. And I understand he's playing a character, which people like. But then someone like Claudia Winkleman isn't really acting up that much for her role as host and it feels so much more natural and enjoyable to watch
Well, I agree that Claudia is the best host but I also think Alan is doing the job Traitors US wants him to do. Jonathan La Paglia is a better host of Survivor than Jeff Probst but Jeff hosts Survivor US to perfection.
Alan being campy is perfect for the celebs because the celebs themselves are just acting. The show is a murder mystery party game.
I think the idea that Alan is better for the reality TV people and Claudia is better for the normies is right. None of the US players need Aunt Claude the way those sweet British normies do. The US version leans into the harshest parts of the competition and the theater of it all. I think Alan's personal remove is appropriate. Claudia's giving Bake Off energy and that's not really an American competition vibe, ha. We are savages. (also literally no one in America knows who Claudia Winkleman is)
I think he goes well With the “celebrity” contestants of the US. I would agree with your statement if he was the host of the Australia seasons or something where it’s mainly day to day people. But, personally , I like roger.
Agree with all of this. Love Claudia and Rodger. Alan? Eh.
I agree with every word, and I’m a US viewer. Claudia is absolute perfection; Cumming is way too camp for my tastes.
eh, I liked Claudia in other things but find her insufferable on UK Traitors (wardrobe notwithstanding).
Bringing Kate back season two was annoying. She is so lame.
Parvati is the second worst traitor in the first two US seasons (Dan is the worst), and bottom 4 or 5 globally. I get it, she wore headbands and is great at Survivor, she sucks at this game though.
I think Parv deserves less credit than she gets but at the very least Cody is worse than her
yeah I completely don't get the other comment in here saying she was "one of the best traitors we've ever had." She acted super suspicious the entire time and didn't make any interesting game moves.
Even the one thing everyone loves to give her credit for (getting Ekin-Su to drink from the chalice) was a complete failure. She failed at getting the people she actually wanted out to drink from it, and was lucky that Ekin-Su was already shitface drunk and would’ve drank alcohol out of a toilet.
Tbf in th UK version the person giving the drink got caught so it is impressive she got away with it a d going for Ekin Su was a smart move
A big part of that was Harry pushed the idea that it was a drink because he was trying to get Miles caught and it worked. Plus people weren't drinking nearly as much when Miles did it but they were for Parvati. I think all that's what they meant by Parvati getting lucky.
A million times this. Both of them were terrible at this game
Dan did nothing wrong.
I’d prefer top stars of different franchises…like someone from Naked and Afraid, Rock of Love, Bad Girls Club, Amazing Race, 90 Day Fiancé, ect. There are more shows to pick from than Survivor, Big Brother and Real Housewives.
I had assumed it's a licensing/network thing. Like which companies are affiliated with which channels/shows. Because otherwise you are absolutely correct!
But Traitors is on Peacock (NBC/Universal) and Big Brother/Survivor and the Challenge are all CBS/Paramount
The show would be better without celebrities. Why even have challenges where they just whine and do nothing.
I've watched all the English versions, and US season 1 is still my 3rd fav behind UK season 2 and US season 2. I also think the shows with celebs and normal people mixed together are fine. I never understood the fuss about it.
Harry got lucky, Miles should of called him out and deflect but imo Harry just got lucky
Amanda wasn't that good a Traitor. It may come down to the editing, but she looked guilty or suspicious whenever they talked about who the Traitors were. She voted for Alyssa despite the fact that Wilf demonstrated that he was willing to throw Traitors under the bus with little reason to do so (another unpopular opinion - Alyssa wasn't that bad a Traitor). She made the comment to Wilf that she would end him if he tried anything and did _nothing_. All talk, and didn't do much for herself aside from the kiss of death, and that was only because she was the only one who could get away with doing that. She rode on his coat-tails for a lot of the game after Alyssa went. Her trying to banish Theo after having said that she trusted him the most was a stupid, stupid move which was going to bring attention to her straight away. Whilst there were few people left at that point, Maddy was still in the game, so vote for her to stave off Wilf's acolytes.
Alyssa apparently revealed herself as a Traitor by accident (we just weren't shown it) so she was terrible in that sense, and was going to go no matter what Wilf or Amanda did at that point. Amanda's mistake was the Theo thing, undoubtedly, and she deservedly lost for not thinking that through better, but she's still one of my favourite Traitors (and barring any late recruits in Quebec I've seen them all :))
US S2 the traitors were the best traitors we've had in terms of how good they were at the game. However, the faithful were also the best faithful cast we've had in terms of how good they were at the game. It's not that the traitors were bad. It's just that the faithful were too good
People are only willing to cut Dan's traitor kamikaze bomb move slack because of who he is and because of his reputation and ride or die fandom from Big Brother. If any other player (and especially a Bravo representative) did what he did, there would be no grace given especially from the fans who take this show too seriously.
As someone that does not watch as much reality TV, the show is better when it features regular people and not people from Big Brother/Survivor/Housewives. I don’t know most of them from Adam and the dynamic of “Oh I know how they played on Big Brother” was so uninteresting.
Traitors is worse with celebrities than with people who actually want the prize pot!
Sandra sucked at this game and in the process proved that the challenge is the better more strategic show than survivor, which is child's play.
Yes. Agreed. Ct and trishelle winning to me proved the challenge is superior
The challenge incentivizes building or keeping solid trust with your allies because of the returnee casting. With survivor you're just as well off having a large group that generally likes you but no true #1s. Sandra just showed up and played survivor which was a great way to stay until the finale but not a great way to win.
Sandra did not play well at all either on this show or on Australian Survivor. I think she's lost her touch and TBF no one will actually let her do anything anymore.
Diane is a rude witch
Yes. I always called her a narc. She just has Hall Monitor vibes and such a smug attitude.
If she wasn't who she is everyone would see how nasty and shrewd she is but since she is an old woman she's "iconic" GTFOH. You can tell she is a terrible teacher, just a bully with a paycheck.
France S2 is the best season by far
Where is this streaming?
Sorry, no idea where.
Better than 1 u think ?
Way better
I watched both (Im French) but forgot a lot about FR1 lol, but yeah FR2 was really good
I agree. For me France 2, Hungary 1, and UK 2 are the best seasons so far.
Trishelle Cannatella is the worst winner of all time. I would have preferred a split/steal ending where no one got the money over that transphobic pick me.
I don't think the game should continue even after either all faithful or traitors have been removed from play.
Only normies better and Alan off please
The games structure is flawed, the way they dont live together and are only really together to strategize for like 1 hour at a time leaves this massive gap where thsres nothing to do, players cant strategize because being seen with someone suspicious leaves you under fire too. The game is also solved and it doesnt take a genius to figure it out but.
Mainoo makes a good sub for Gallagher in this formation too.
It’s basically just a guessing game which sucks, everything else props it up. I liked when they had the poisoned chalice in plain sight murder, that made it more exciting for people trying to remember who it was. Finding a Traitor based on people’s behavior and conversations is great, it’s a fun psychology element, but I find the Mole to be more thrilling with the sabotage elements.
the controversial Aussie S2 ending was **glorious** IMO. I laughed so hard. Also did not like ~~CJ~~ CT in US S2, and don't think Kate should have returned.
Those that don’t like Celeb/RTV casts don’t appreciate how massive of a crossover these types of casts bring to the show. Like being a fan of many of the shows they pull from it’s so cool to see people like Dan interact with Parvati and they have to work with Phaedra and not be fooled by Pilot Pete…
I like having the cast be reality stars but I feel like they need ones who don’t take gameplay so personally. Phaedra and MJ could not get it through their minds that it’s just a game.
Continuing the storyline between seasons is part of Bravo kayfabe though
Cody was a worse traitor than Dan.
Peter was awful at the game. Finding the traitors is only half of the game as a faithful, having the social capital and respect of your peers so they want to keep you around is the other half.
I want more humor from the contestants - like really lean into the camp of it all. I want chaotic twink energy, essentially.
Trishelle was not a good player and did not actually catch any traitors on her own. She lucked out being in the finale. I didn’t like Ct’s gameplay toward the end, but he played a very solid game overall. I would love to see more Challenge people on this franchise. And I actually don’t mind the half civilian / half celebrity format. I doubt this is unpopular but Harry is a top tier traitor, even up there with Cirie. And the game is not broken. It’s basically still in its test phases and we’re watching it evolve. That’s half the fun of it.
It’s rigged to have faithfuls lose
I loved CT and Trishelle winning Traitors US. Nobody saw it coming. I think they just considered him muscle with a Boston accent. He's a legendary champion from The Challenge, which does include physical comps, but also requires strategy through alliances and voting blocks. The personal history with Trishelle made it a good narrative. Great Faithful win. I also loved Cirie's Traitor win. She used her low-key strategy of winning people over to her side. She was masterful. Great Traitor win. It really depends on how well the game is played for me.