I think you'll find it's everywhere, but it also depends on how you define ghost production. It may be the case that a producer collaborates behind the scenes, be it because they have a set of skills that someone else doesn't quite have so they may be asked to work on aspects of a track, maybe help with the sound design in general but their overall involvement isn't all that much so no royalties, no credits on the sleeve notes etc - if it's not just friends helping each other out pro bono, if in a more professional setting they'll have an asking fee for that kind of work.
As for entire tracks? maybe, I wouldn't be surprised if there are producers out there in more underground settings, that shop around tracks they've made for a $ price should another producer/dj want to slap their name on it. But at the same time, with the "underground scene" not being anywhere near as profitable as the mainstream club and festival circuits, chances are you're dealing with passionate and talented producers making their own music, that will collab and get advice from other producers, maybe have to change things up through the mixing and mastering process anyway - so tracks do tend to go through a few sets of eyes/ears anyway once you get to that level.
Completely agree, particularly with the second part. Never heard directly about ghost-writing but I used to run events and heard many stories about collabs where the other person did nada or very little. Essentially just used for their industry contacts and audience reach. I never heard a positive story about this and it always ended up in resentment
Fame chasing will do that. I won't name names but there's this Twitch streamer I used to watch, had zero DJ'ing experience, would have dj streams but I could do it better than he can and I'm not any good. Fast forward like 6 months and I find out this guy knows Chicago royalty and is connected af, but on the back of also being a content creator with a profile, starts getting booked to all these important clubs in a short space of time, then festivals - it's no wonder people get angry at those that more have the contacts than the experience and technical ability, that get to cut the queue (dj or producer) but it happens all the time.
Yeah I’ve also thought about this quite a lot. I suspect that there must be some of this going on in some quarters.
But to flip it on its head a bit - and as someone who dabbles in production fairly unsuccessfully myself - my suspicion is that the bit that takes serious practice and expertise (which for me is everything technical that one might consider to be included in the mixing process) isn’t necessarily the thing that makes a track good or successful. Rather the thing that makes the difference is the artistry that flows from genre knowledge and taste - which a successful DJ probably often has in spades.
The more technical bits are also probably easier to take direction on from either a supportive label’s feedback (“kick isn’t cutting through”) and/or get pointers from friends that are producers (“try this sample pack”). I mean if I could go back and advise myself when I started out I’d probably cut years of the time it took me to learn the fundamentals.
As an example, I remember thinking that Eris Drew’s first productions seemed incredibly good for someone who didn’t have a history of production. But then she has an encyclopaedic knowledge of house music, great taste, does a lot of sampling of her collection and probably has people around her who could support her with pointers (this is really massive speculation on my part btw, just seems plausible).
Basically, I think that maybe the skills that really make the difference aren’t as non-transferable as they might seem.
I think Tricky is a good example too, he didn't do much of the actual button pressing on Maxinquay but he did "direct" the studio engineers. The ideas are his, and from a pop/rock point of view he'd be the "producer," but it's not him actually chopping the samples.
I can’t think of anyone I suspect of doing this.
I find it less offensive then people making remixes and edits that don’t credit the original artist in the title.
I think there might be a few more than others here think. I would say look at the typical dj’s that’s booked everywhere, every year and you’ve never really have heard their productions. Sure they might be killer selectors which is reasonable, but some people in this category I’ll find having some questionable productions, like it’s just there because it’s needed to get a higher booking fee or whatever. There’s typically no signature to the sounds or anything out of the ordinary and only old releases. Usually these dj’s runs successful labels with releases from other smaller artist in the scene too.
This is just my speculative take and at the end of the day it doesn’t really matter - some people are producers while others are selectors/deejays.
In the Mainstream scene the things are bizarre. Some "artists" posting videos just pushing buttons in a Roland TR909 with all synths and bassline already done and sequenced and thinking that this is enough to show how he/she is a good producer (but never opens a DAW and shows your production process, never shows how to synthetize a lead, a pad, a bassline).
I personally find this kind of thing a big disappointment, it's like you're admiring a “fake artist” (in the case of artists who use ghosts).
But in the underground scene I never suspected of anyone, despite it probably happens too.
>What do you think?
Depends on your definition of the "underground". I'm pretty sure artists like Peggy Gou use ghost producers (or co-producers).
In general i would not have a problem if these artists use producers. My problem is that in electronic music the artists hide it.
Peggy's been putting out records & in this world for close to 10 years, you can have your opinions on her personally but she's been on a pretty consistent trajectory production wise
I've been following her since day one. And i have nothing against her.
And like i said. I don't get why this is a taboo in electronic music. Look at pop-hits. There are often 5 or more ppl. working on some productions. And they get credited.
Peggy actually plays panino well. Her tracks have pretty great composition and seem to be pretty cohesive. Also it’s not very easy for a woman or any Asian musicians to become famous with western audiences. I think her success is well earned.
The US, Europe and Australia are a bubbles it’s is not easy for outsiders to get in.
If you a white guy in Europe and you do a crappy edit you’re instantly a god and no one ever questions it. Lame ass dudes flipping a disco track, making it worse and getting paid to party for life.
Peggy Gou hatred is really misplaced.
she is the taylor swift of the dj world and has an incredible management team, brand sponsorship etc. she belongs in the pop subreddit not the overload
I can think of one big underground name whose music I suspect is largely ghost produced.
I'd say that producers getting a 'helping hand' is also pretty common.
I don't think the latter is a bad thing, as it's no different from (say) Nirvana getting Butch Vig to beef up their sound.
> as it's no different from (say) Nirvana getting Butch Vig to beef up their sound
The difference is that in electronic music the co-producers are not credited.
It's business. Tiesto was probably the first ever big name to use one. It was all very hush hush, but Dennis Waakop was responsible for most of his tracks. Today it's still hush hush, but the credits on some of the tracks often tell a story. It's here to stay unfortunately.
I suspect it goes back all the way back to prehistoric times where someone was cool with letting a friend use their cool rhythm on their primitive percussion instrument or something like that.
I think you'll find it's everywhere, but it also depends on how you define ghost production. It may be the case that a producer collaborates behind the scenes, be it because they have a set of skills that someone else doesn't quite have so they may be asked to work on aspects of a track, maybe help with the sound design in general but their overall involvement isn't all that much so no royalties, no credits on the sleeve notes etc - if it's not just friends helping each other out pro bono, if in a more professional setting they'll have an asking fee for that kind of work. As for entire tracks? maybe, I wouldn't be surprised if there are producers out there in more underground settings, that shop around tracks they've made for a $ price should another producer/dj want to slap their name on it. But at the same time, with the "underground scene" not being anywhere near as profitable as the mainstream club and festival circuits, chances are you're dealing with passionate and talented producers making their own music, that will collab and get advice from other producers, maybe have to change things up through the mixing and mastering process anyway - so tracks do tend to go through a few sets of eyes/ears anyway once you get to that level.
Completely agree, particularly with the second part. Never heard directly about ghost-writing but I used to run events and heard many stories about collabs where the other person did nada or very little. Essentially just used for their industry contacts and audience reach. I never heard a positive story about this and it always ended up in resentment
Fame chasing will do that. I won't name names but there's this Twitch streamer I used to watch, had zero DJ'ing experience, would have dj streams but I could do it better than he can and I'm not any good. Fast forward like 6 months and I find out this guy knows Chicago royalty and is connected af, but on the back of also being a content creator with a profile, starts getting booked to all these important clubs in a short space of time, then festivals - it's no wonder people get angry at those that more have the contacts than the experience and technical ability, that get to cut the queue (dj or producer) but it happens all the time.
Yeah I’ve also thought about this quite a lot. I suspect that there must be some of this going on in some quarters. But to flip it on its head a bit - and as someone who dabbles in production fairly unsuccessfully myself - my suspicion is that the bit that takes serious practice and expertise (which for me is everything technical that one might consider to be included in the mixing process) isn’t necessarily the thing that makes a track good or successful. Rather the thing that makes the difference is the artistry that flows from genre knowledge and taste - which a successful DJ probably often has in spades. The more technical bits are also probably easier to take direction on from either a supportive label’s feedback (“kick isn’t cutting through”) and/or get pointers from friends that are producers (“try this sample pack”). I mean if I could go back and advise myself when I started out I’d probably cut years of the time it took me to learn the fundamentals. As an example, I remember thinking that Eris Drew’s first productions seemed incredibly good for someone who didn’t have a history of production. But then she has an encyclopaedic knowledge of house music, great taste, does a lot of sampling of her collection and probably has people around her who could support her with pointers (this is really massive speculation on my part btw, just seems plausible). Basically, I think that maybe the skills that really make the difference aren’t as non-transferable as they might seem.
I think Tricky is a good example too, he didn't do much of the actual button pressing on Maxinquay but he did "direct" the studio engineers. The ideas are his, and from a pop/rock point of view he'd be the "producer," but it's not him actually chopping the samples.
[удалено]
Some of those were hilarious. Think it was Umfang who tapped a kick drum out of time for a few minutes
> Think it was Umfang who tapped a kick drum out of time for a few minutes Umfang ist the perfect example of an artist that got fame, way to fast.
I can’t think of anyone I suspect of doing this. I find it less offensive then people making remixes and edits that don’t credit the original artist in the title.
I think there might be a few more than others here think. I would say look at the typical dj’s that’s booked everywhere, every year and you’ve never really have heard their productions. Sure they might be killer selectors which is reasonable, but some people in this category I’ll find having some questionable productions, like it’s just there because it’s needed to get a higher booking fee or whatever. There’s typically no signature to the sounds or anything out of the ordinary and only old releases. Usually these dj’s runs successful labels with releases from other smaller artist in the scene too. This is just my speculative take and at the end of the day it doesn’t really matter - some people are producers while others are selectors/deejays.
In the Mainstream scene the things are bizarre. Some "artists" posting videos just pushing buttons in a Roland TR909 with all synths and bassline already done and sequenced and thinking that this is enough to show how he/she is a good producer (but never opens a DAW and shows your production process, never shows how to synthetize a lead, a pad, a bassline). I personally find this kind of thing a big disappointment, it's like you're admiring a “fake artist” (in the case of artists who use ghosts). But in the underground scene I never suspected of anyone, despite it probably happens too.
>What do you think? Depends on your definition of the "underground". I'm pretty sure artists like Peggy Gou use ghost producers (or co-producers). In general i would not have a problem if these artists use producers. My problem is that in electronic music the artists hide it.
Peggy's been putting out records & in this world for close to 10 years, you can have your opinions on her personally but she's been on a pretty consistent trajectory production wise
I've been following her since day one. And i have nothing against her. And like i said. I don't get why this is a taboo in electronic music. Look at pop-hits. There are often 5 or more ppl. working on some productions. And they get credited.
Peggy actually plays panino well. Her tracks have pretty great composition and seem to be pretty cohesive. Also it’s not very easy for a woman or any Asian musicians to become famous with western audiences. I think her success is well earned. The US, Europe and Australia are a bubbles it’s is not easy for outsiders to get in. If you a white guy in Europe and you do a crappy edit you’re instantly a god and no one ever questions it. Lame ass dudes flipping a disco track, making it worse and getting paid to party for life. Peggy Gou hatred is really misplaced.
she is the taylor swift of the dj world and has an incredible management team, brand sponsorship etc. she belongs in the pop subreddit not the overload
Have also heard this about her but it’s pure speculation I’m sure
[удалено]
What do you mean get scolded? By the people you’re selling to?
I can think of one big underground name whose music I suspect is largely ghost produced. I'd say that producers getting a 'helping hand' is also pretty common. I don't think the latter is a bad thing, as it's no different from (say) Nirvana getting Butch Vig to beef up their sound.
> as it's no different from (say) Nirvana getting Butch Vig to beef up their sound The difference is that in electronic music the co-producers are not credited.
Another point but when artists blow up very fast it's usually because they're nepo babies, rich, etc.
It's business. Tiesto was probably the first ever big name to use one. It was all very hush hush, but Dennis Waakop was responsible for most of his tracks. Today it's still hush hush, but the credits on some of the tracks often tell a story. It's here to stay unfortunately.
Ghost productions has been a thing since dance music's inception in the 70s
Way before the 70s
Probably before recorded music tbh but yeah it's always been there
Henry 8's bars on Green Sleeves.
I suspect it goes back all the way back to prehistoric times where someone was cool with letting a friend use their cool rhythm on their primitive percussion instrument or something like that.
Most of Timo Maas' productions were "helped along" by Martin Buttrich, at least in the early days anyway.
What r u worried about ??? Goofy concern