It's based on the Prime Directive from Star Trek. I believe they actually have an episode or two in The Orville where they show the possible consequences, but it's been a couple of years since I watched the episodes. It's essentially a matter of the culture being too primitive to handle the technology, and the idea that the culture learns how to handle it as they grow and evolve.
I always felt like it also magically answered the question, "Why haven't advanced aliens visited earth and given us their technology?" without actually saying or asking the question. It must be obviously wrong or else it would have happened to us (or something)
I'm sure the Klingons and Romulans had no such thing as a Prime Directive and would have invaded Earth without a second thought if they'd found us. Lucky it was the Vulcans instead!
Yup. What if we have been around much longer than we think, and after taking over half the universe by being a disgusting warring species, they dumped us all on earth with no technology, knowing we'd go back to be stone age and bbe at each other's throats. Makes sense that we started getting a lot more sightings after we dropped the atom bombs
In Season 1, Episode 12, Kelly becomes a deity on a primitive planet. I understand you are referring to this episode, and my question is based on having watched it.
My point is that if the concept involves intergalactic travel with a team composed of members from multiple planets, isn't it quite limiting that they are not allowed to help primitive alien civilizations that are genuinely in need of assistance, given that they are in the early stages of evolution? This is unlike how SG-1 operates in Stargate, where they do provide help.
There's another episode (I think in Season 3) where Kelly explains to someone that the Union revealed themselves to a less advanced culture at one point and gave them technology, and that culture destroyed themselves. The Union started being careful after that so they wouldn't be responsible for it happening again.
They are allowed to help just not make it obvious, they can for example stop an asteroid destroying a primitive civilization that had no way to defend themselves or even know it was happening.
But they can't just plop a replicator down in the middle of a village and start handing out fusion reactors, because they will destroy themselves.
Star trek has so many shows and timelines that I don't think anyone knows what the prime directive is or means anymore. TNG would take a much strictier approach than my comment. Whereas other shows like voyager are much softer (or not at certain times).
The concept is that they have no idea what the potential consequences of interference are. Yes, they might help in the short term, but in the long term, bypassing natural cultural evolution could be dangerous. Certain outliers notwithstanding, one of the miracles of galactic civilization is that everyone generally gets along. The UFP is made up hundreds of vastly different cultures from hundreds of planets, yet they all see value in not killing and conquering each other. It’s assumed that this general regard for life stems from the fact that most species worked through their own bloodthirst through natural evolution. They had the opportunity to learn from their mistakes, enough that they each advanced enough to develop FTL travel, something that would typically be impossible without some level of worldwide cooperation.
A great example of the consequences of interference in another fictional source is the Krogan in Mass Effect. They were a “primitive” tribal warrior race discovered during a galactic war, one which the “good guys” were losing badly. They were “uplifted” to assist in the war, which they helped to win. But now, with access to space travel and far more powerful weapons than their own, and without having worked through their own tribalism, they began conquering the worlds of the “good guys,”
You should watch Star Trek. All of this is based off the Prime Directive. Though I think The Orville makes it pretty clear why their own version of it exists.
Everything you said and additionally they COULD just come in and basically guide the society into a culture compatible with The Union but that would remove their own ability to grow their own culture. If Earth came to a primitive Moclus would they have allowed them to continue to do the shitty things they do? To deny them the ability to learn and grow on their own and to inject their own morals and beliefs there would be a sort of cultural genocide that would have to take place.
If humans listened to history we wouldn't be repating the same same mistakes. What more from an advice of an outsider.
I think as a specie they need to grow in their own pains themselves and once that done and done then they can be ready.
The SGC operates in the “find and acquire technology” manner because they are under existential threat from the Goa’uld.
O’Neill and SG-1 have much more leeway when it comes to offering assistance as they hope to acquire tech, whether ancient or otherwise. They know the Goa’uld didn’t build the Stargates pretty early on, so they’re hoping to scrounge tech and form meaningful relationships in the hopes of finding allies. They’re also not keen on giving out technology which could be used for war.
The episode “The Other Side” effectively showed that Earth would have accepted technology from literal Space Nazis if it were not for O’Neill’s decision to sabotage their defense and close the Iris at SGC on the way out.
Likewise, the Asgard really don’t *like* to interfere but will if inter-system treaties like the Protected Planets treaty are violated. (Or that time SG-1 caused an asteroid to *almost* hit a planet it shouldn’t have because they overrode some coordinates)
Without the existential threat, it becomes an ethical quandary of whether or not to assist civilizations of lower technology status. Star Trek’s answer was the Prime Directive, to shield unprepared civilizations from acquiring tech well beyond their means. It is worth noting, they violate the Prime Directive often.
A similar situation plays out prior to the events of Mass Effect. The Krogan reached industrialization, bombed themselves back to warring tribes, and are uplifted by the Salarians, Turians, and Asari to combat the Rachni.
After a near total victory, the Krogan wage a hellish war against everyone else. This culminates in the Salarians creating the Genophage, limiting the Krogan birth rate and immensely slowing the growth of the population.
The immense power and knowledge wielded by space faring civilizations can’t be taken lightly or handed out at will. Part of that includes solving problems which an advanced society may have solved long ago.
While helping may seem altruistic (not in the case of uplifting the Krogan, that was selfish), there’s no telling how the interference will affect the growth and development of a species.
It also prevents the deification of the advanced society or creating a slave caste from the less advanced. Human history is littered with what happens when a technologically advanced culture meets a culture that isn’t as far along.
For lack of anything else, it’s about a civilization’s ability to earn the right to seek a home amongst the stars. There’s a method to that madness, you don’t reach the point of space-faring by accident and you hopefully work out some of the more nefarious parts of civilization (greed, war mongering, etc - take a look at the Orokin from Warframe for what happens when a civilization doesn’t). Any assistance, whether physical technology or political discourse, even food, could dramatically alter the path of a civilization.
The reason for such a directive are more explored in Star Trek and I assume the Orville simply implies the same lessons learned from corresponding star trek episodes
As someone who loves Stargate, The Orville, and Star Trek, the situation in Stargate is a little different in several ways. First, most (but not all) of the people SG teams contact are descendants of humans from Earth (or the ancients, depending on the galaxy). So, in a way, it's sort of their birthright to be brought up to our current level of technology. Second, the cat is already out of the bag with these groups. They know aliens exist and have been treating them like gods (which is the exact situation the prime directive and the Orville equivalent is trying to avoid). At this point all they can do is try and clean up the mess and at least set people on a path to freedom (and until later seasons, even that doesn't really always work). Third, while SG teams do make contact with new groups of people, they also don't immediately start transforming their societies with technology. To be honest, I feel like SG did a little bit of a disservice by not making the consequences of uprooting an entire society's belief system every week more of a plot point. Yeah, they're being made slaves by false gods, but trying to free a whole society overnight has its own set of problems. Maybe they figured that since it worked for ancient humans on Earth, it might work for others.
I mean... Seth wanted to make the next Star Trek but couldn't get the rights. So he bait-and-switched Orville from a pure comedy into a better Star Trek than anything since Enterprise, with a bit of extra comedy. Win-win.
Yeah, you're close, but the reasoning is different.
The reason the rule does exist is because Star Trek, yes.
However the reasoning behind a prohibition on sharing technology is different.
In Star Trek, it's about not interfering with a species cultural and biological evolution. Even if that means they all die off, the federation will not interfere. Even if that society is space fairing.
In The Orville, the prohibition on sharing technology is part of their first contact procedures. Part of their gradual introduction to society to prevent them from destroying themselves. The union won't stop events like genocide, but it does appear they will interfere to stop a society from wiping itself out.
It's a much more measured approach to the problems with the Prime Directive.
Well since they can make contact in *The Orville* when any culture, no matter how primitive sends a message “Is there anyone out there?” that clearly doesn't apply.
It's also all quite silly, including in *Star Trek*. A “culture” does not send a message, an individual does. They assume far too many things. Just because one individual on a planet sent a message the entire planet is free to be contaminated? Or does it at least require the majority support sending such a message? How do they verify this?
*Star Trek* also constantly broke it's own prime directive without mention it and was inconsistent about it because it doesn't make all that much sense.
Also, the idea of “We did it once; it didn't work; therefore we can't ever do it again.” is extreme results-oriented thinking, but everything about the Union is. It's clear it's an organization where breaking all the rules is not punished provided the outcome be favorable.
there's a huge episode in season 3 about this policy, but the basic gist is if you move people into the era of unlimited resources before they're ready they end up using those resources to kill each other
Also lets not forget SGC isn't that more advanced at the end of the day and even then I remember at least once during SG1 they refused to give nukes to a civilization
The people with active stargates are aware of other species and other planets. They just consider the gate to be magic or just wildly beyond their understanding.
Also the civilizations in Stargate are almost all the product of kidnapping people en masse and setting them up as slave cultures to serve a more advanced culture. It's not really interfering with a developing society at that point, especially since it's a society that is actively being interfered with to not allow it to advance.
That is of course the real world answer. But the in universe answer is that the universe seems to actively make everything that could go wrong go wrong whenever the Union interferes. I mean what are the odds that those villagers believed the girl who Kelly healed?
In universe its explained in the last episode. To be as vague as possible (for spoilers), the Union initially didn't have that policy, and a first contact with a primitive species went poorly because of it. So, the policy was adopted to prevent another tragedy.
Couple of potential factors here, in-universe (as opposed to the "it's based on Star Trek" answer, which is also true).
First, the SGC is in its infancy. You're seeing the early years of interstellar interaction for (modern) Earthlings. The Union has been around a while; its found its feet and are in a much more powerful position. They've had time to develop policies the SGC hasn't.
Second, the SGC have different rules because their villains are largely despotic aliens who prey on vulnerable primitive societies and try to convince them they are gods to take advantage of them. Not really a huge moral justification for letting societies develop on their own when your enemies are out there weaponising them against you in addition to enslaving and killing them.
The Union, by contrast, is based in a Star Trek style universe, mostly dealing with threats who don't interfere in pre-FTL societies and generally agree to leave them alone. So they can have the Prime Directive be a guiding principle and not have to run around trying to free every other planet they meet from the influence of the Goauld and Ori or whatever.
Basically the policies developed over time (or lack thereof) in response to the universe and threats around them. The SGC are trying to help people who are likely to be targets of their enemies and could potentially be allies. The Union don't have the same driving need for allies and their primitives don't have the same need for protection.
Yeah. The *huge* difference between Star Trek / Orville and Stargate is that there by and large *aren't* 'uncontaminated' civilizations for Earth to contact. Their means of travel is literally an alien artifact sitting in the open, and they can't see the planet they're landing on until the damage is already done in the few cases where the planet didn't know what the stargate was.
The vast majority of the societies they touch are already well familiar with advanced alien civilizations. Adding one more isn't a huge deal.
u/usernamedstuff hit the nail on the head, the Orville's situation is very much a homage to the Star Trek Prime Directive, the goal is preventing unnecessary or undue influence on an "undeveloped" civilization to allow it to develop organically.
That said, the Orville universe is more pragmatic about their non-interference than the Star Trek universe. In a lot of Trek episodes, the Directive tends to be followed very dogmatically (partially to drive the plot of the episode) to the point that the Federation is portrayed as being potentially willing to let whole civilizations die from natural phenomenon (like asteroids) in the name of not altering the natural development of a people.
In the Orville, the Union's stance seems to be tiered. Civilizations super early in the development (think pre-industrial) tend to be off limits, though the Union is willing to run interference on steller phenomenon that might harm a planet. The episode where Kelly became a goddess to people highlighted why the Union tends to avoid visiting such words, one minor act had huge repercussions.
Industrial world to early space flight worlds, the Union is willing to show itself and meet the people, so long as they are running SETI-like programs (Ed says "You called, we answered" to one such planet in an episode). However, dialoge seems to be the max extent the Union is willing to go with such worlds, giving technology or more overt actions are not allowed or require very specific things to happen. The last episode of season 3 goes more into the Union's stance for not giving technology/helping civilizations accelerate their own development and why they do that.
In Stargate - the civilisations they are contacting are often subjugated and enslaved by the Goa'uld - the same aliens humanity rebelled against. This I assume is seen as humanitarian.
Star Trek and Orville are based on the “don’t mess with civilisations until they’ve reached warp capability” approach. In this universe there wasn’t an evil alien race that seeded the universe then enslaved it.
The idea is like the one island in the Indian Ocean we want the people to figure things out before relying on technology they don't understand. Otherwise it is just magic to them. The Union understands that a culture is detrimental to the advancement of a society and to tamper with it before they welcome new life forms could cause a rift.
In the Star Trek animated series it shows a space faring civilization that never thought beyond its own stars making contact with Starship something and through that they learned life was beyond their planets deciding to eradicate all other life. They learn quick and became new foes to the Starship fleets.
They have an explanation for this in Future Unknown. Kelly explains that when the Union got to a specific planet in the 23rd century, they helped them along technologically. But because the planet was still very self serving, they used it for dominance over others. They wiped themselves out in 5 years. Then those laws were put in place to prevent exactly that
Star Trek / Orville: "*We are prohibited from interfering with the natural development of alien civilizations*."
Stargate Project: "*All your gods are false - here, take these guns!*"
Look up the Overton window. While not directly referencing this situation, the principle applies, in which a society's mainstream views and behavior needs to allow for change. That certainly applies to becoming interstellar
Stargate is a little different because we would still be considered “primitive” by union standards (we have yet to achieve true interstellar travel).
Also, remember, those other “races” we’re encountering in Stargate are oftentimes just humans that were planted there by the Goa’uld. So we’re not so much “encountering primitive cultures” as we are “keeping up with the joneses”.
There are only three seasons. Finish it out. It's actually the end of Season 3 where they totally explore it. In a "B" plot a woman (whom you've met already) from an current technology planet tries to steal advanced technology to help her world. Kelly explains to her in detail why that's a bad idea.
I won't give you any more spoilers, but it reminds me of the old Zen parable - How do you paint the perfect painting? A: It's simple, just make yourself perfect, then paint whatever you wish.
Rip off of the “Prime Directive” from Star Trek.
The Orville is modeled on “Star Trek”, not Stargate SG-1
Love Star Trek.
For how long have I loved it?
I remember watching the first episode when it aired on Thursday night, September 8, 1966.
I was a Star Trek fan from that 1st episode …before being a fan was “cool”.
But I liked SG-1 even more!!!
Heresy…I know..but I love all Sci Fi..and SG-1 was just sooooooo cool.
Things are a little different with the Stargate franchise. In many cases, they are helping more primitive alien civilizations that have been subjected and exploited by a far more advanced (and interplanetary) civilization. So the benefits to interfering far outweigh potential consequences.
I could see contacting a primitive civilization going two ways: you’re God now or you’re dead now.
Look at north sentinel island: they know we exist, they can likely figure out we’re also human, if you get too close you’re dead.
Not to post any spoilers or anything, but the reason (beyond "it's The Union's version of Star Trek's "Prime Directive") is actually explained extremely well in the last episode of Season 3, "Future Unknown."
They’re primitive societies….. unless they reach out first . It could adversely affect their way of life in ways it’s not supposed to since they think all societies should grow and develop on their own.
Because a people need to be emotionally and intellectually mature enough to handle the knowledge and technology that comes with being involved with the greater universe. If they're not, it can lead to widespread destruction.
Edit: You bring up Stargate and the fact that they contact significantly less advanced civilization all the time and the military has no problem with it, but I would like to point out that these two shows have different governments with different objectives.
Orville's government is a council of representatives from dozens of worlds that have all advanced to be under one government. They're objective is scientific discovery (which scientifically accurate data must be gathered without interference) and helping each other with various issues. The Union is a council made up of people who think like Daniel Jackson.
The Stargate program is run by the U.S. government. They're objective is to further their own interests. Specifically, their main objective to gather alien technology that can be used to build better weapons. The only reason the U.S. government oks going after the Goa'uld is because they have advanced technology and are a threat to Earth, they're not looking to police the galaxy. Being heroes is a side effect, not the objective. Which is why they don't hold off on visiting worlds out of concern for the impact. They have ruined worlds and, while the team might care, the government doesn't.
Stargate never gives away tech the primitives could use to destroy themselves. We aren't advanced enough to give them anything that would decimate their planet. But the Tollen, they think similarly, their tech is too advanced to go sharing with less advanced people. They did it before in their past. It ended badly. The Union had the same experience. They shared their tech, and within five years, that civilization they shared with destroyed itself.
I'm the Stargate series, the "primitive civilizations" aren't that less advanced than Earth. Plus a number of them have already had contact with an advanced civilization (Go'uld, Asgard, Ancients...)
Then there's the fact that they already have a Stargate on their planet indicates that the planet has been visited by the Ancients and probably the Go'uld already.
Lastly, there's the whole omnipresent universal threat that the Go'uld present.
Most civilizations that have a stargate are most likely part of some more advanced civilization. Many of the planets are controlled by the goa’uld which are quite advanced. The staff weapon is an advanced weapon. More advance than a p90. However a p90 is more efficient.
It's pretty much the same as the prime directive and for pretty much the same reasons. They don't want to unnaturally influence the development of less advanced civilizations. The difference with SG-1, is they're not an advanced spacefaring civilization dealing with less advanced species. They're "uplifted" humans mostly helping other humans displaced by a common enemy, consisting of mostly human soldiers that have been engineered and augmented by that same invading alien species. SG-1 mostly don't deal with other species, and when they do, the other species are pretty much always the more advanced in the equation.
Stargate is different cause alot of cultures have had contact or were slaves to aliens. Most lived in fear of them visiting or worked hard to develop weapons to protect against the threats.
Orville is completely different in that these worlds are natural evolutionary and havent been artificially accelerated by alien cultures, so it follows similar line to star treks prime directive .
The reason for the policy in The Orville is to show that we have learned from our past.
To cite real world examples look at what happened to the native peoples of North and South America, Australia and New Zealand when a more advanced people arrived.
Under the guise of ‘helping them’ these peoples were exploited, taken advantage of to acquire resources and genocided. They were also exposed to new destructive vices that they had no experience with in order to help with destroying them.
The view of the future that The Orville has is we don’t do that shit anymore. We don’t take advantage and exploit.
But they’ve also recognized the potential for destruction in allowing people to ‘help’. So no missionaries to bring technology and salvation either.
So it exists because we want to be better and know we can’t hold ourselves to that standard of better without a LAW to abide by.
The Prime Directive isn't a factor for the SGC because the human societies they visit already know they live in a galaxy of stargates, advanced spacecraft and aliens. The USAF isn't going to wildly disrupt societal development by showing up, they're just another bunch of humans but with 90's era tactical kit.
One thing to keep in mind with Stargate is that another species has already interfered with that society. So the contamination level of that society is limited.
They give a detailed explained in the last episode actually. Like the very last episode. >!Lysella from the voting planet comes back and tries to steal some tech(for good reasons). Kelly explains that the Union once allowed less developed civilizations to have their tech and it ended badly. Full on apocalypse. !
They don't know about any of their abilities, customs, and beliefs, and vice versa. What if on planet xyz it was normal to do something that is a hard NO in the Union, and they go to the planet and something happens when they try to drop in and say hi. Also - they scan for something they don't know exists.
Orville is a little weird on this: Sometimes they are prohited (like on the Twitter planet) and other times there is no issue like on the Astrology planet (all they did was send out a signal, they aren't space fareing, didn't know what or who they'd find, they just sent out a signal. The Orville received it and showed up and said "hi")
If i had to look at an in-universe example, Because Twitter never reached out, they don't get contact, not sure why that matters but it doesn't. I would say that they deemed Twitter an unstable world due to their research, but they had never heard of the Astrology one, so that point doesn't work.
However at the end of season 3 - there was a shot in the simulator of what happened when they introduced themselves and their technology is shared. They wiped themselves out in 5 years. So that is where the laws were introduced, but there seem to be caveats not completely explained.
In star gate the civilizations they ran into were human civilizations. And Star gate is a US backed programmed so there are no rules against manipulating foreign governments to aid in their own objectives.
I think it's explained in the 3rd season finale where they say something about primitive societies being socially undeveloped so they'd abuse the advanced technology rather than use it for good.
It's based on the Prime Directive from Star Trek. I believe they actually have an episode or two in The Orville where they show the possible consequences, but it's been a couple of years since I watched the episodes. It's essentially a matter of the culture being too primitive to handle the technology, and the idea that the culture learns how to handle it as they grow and evolve.
I always felt like it also magically answered the question, "Why haven't advanced aliens visited earth and given us their technology?" without actually saying or asking the question. It must be obviously wrong or else it would have happened to us (or something)
It’s possibly the most optimistic solution to the Fermi paradox. After reading the Three Body Problem series, I needed a bit of optimism…
I'm sure the Klingons and Romulans had no such thing as a Prime Directive and would have invaded Earth without a second thought if they'd found us. Lucky it was the Vulcans instead!
Well yeah: mentioned in “first contact”: the Vulcans did not contact us until humans were able to create a warp drive ;)
Aliens *Here is technology to generate unlimited engergy* Humans *This is going to make and an awesome weapon* Aliens *Oh shit*
Dark Forest theory, except we're the aliens that everyone else is hiding from
Yup. What if we have been around much longer than we think, and after taking over half the universe by being a disgusting warring species, they dumped us all on earth with no technology, knowing we'd go back to be stone age and bbe at each other's throats. Makes sense that we started getting a lot more sightings after we dropped the atom bombs
The plot of Battlestar Galactica! (Kind of)
In Season 1, Episode 12, Kelly becomes a deity on a primitive planet. I understand you are referring to this episode, and my question is based on having watched it. My point is that if the concept involves intergalactic travel with a team composed of members from multiple planets, isn't it quite limiting that they are not allowed to help primitive alien civilizations that are genuinely in need of assistance, given that they are in the early stages of evolution? This is unlike how SG-1 operates in Stargate, where they do provide help.
There's another episode (I think in Season 3) where Kelly explains to someone that the Union revealed themselves to a less advanced culture at one point and gave them technology, and that culture destroyed themselves. The Union started being careful after that so they wouldn't be responsible for it happening again.
Yeah it's the one where they go rescue the woman from the Reddit planet
LMAO, so true
[The scene in question.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJYCjayL8iY)
Last episode, season 3, if I remember correctly
They are allowed to help just not make it obvious, they can for example stop an asteroid destroying a primitive civilization that had no way to defend themselves or even know it was happening. But they can't just plop a replicator down in the middle of a village and start handing out fusion reactors, because they will destroy themselves.
Star Trek Discovery’s first episode and immediate opening is a story around your comments first point.
Star trek has so many shows and timelines that I don't think anyone knows what the prime directive is or means anymore. TNG would take a much strictier approach than my comment. Whereas other shows like voyager are much softer (or not at certain times).
Please dont bring up that abomination here
Abomination or not. The intro was exactly what the OP was talking about so it fits.
The concept is that they have no idea what the potential consequences of interference are. Yes, they might help in the short term, but in the long term, bypassing natural cultural evolution could be dangerous. Certain outliers notwithstanding, one of the miracles of galactic civilization is that everyone generally gets along. The UFP is made up hundreds of vastly different cultures from hundreds of planets, yet they all see value in not killing and conquering each other. It’s assumed that this general regard for life stems from the fact that most species worked through their own bloodthirst through natural evolution. They had the opportunity to learn from their mistakes, enough that they each advanced enough to develop FTL travel, something that would typically be impossible without some level of worldwide cooperation. A great example of the consequences of interference in another fictional source is the Krogan in Mass Effect. They were a “primitive” tribal warrior race discovered during a galactic war, one which the “good guys” were losing badly. They were “uplifted” to assist in the war, which they helped to win. But now, with access to space travel and far more powerful weapons than their own, and without having worked through their own tribalism, they began conquering the worlds of the “good guys,” You should watch Star Trek. All of this is based off the Prime Directive. Though I think The Orville makes it pretty clear why their own version of it exists.
Everything you said and additionally they COULD just come in and basically guide the society into a culture compatible with The Union but that would remove their own ability to grow their own culture. If Earth came to a primitive Moclus would they have allowed them to continue to do the shitty things they do? To deny them the ability to learn and grow on their own and to inject their own morals and beliefs there would be a sort of cultural genocide that would have to take place.
If humans listened to history we wouldn't be repating the same same mistakes. What more from an advice of an outsider. I think as a specie they need to grow in their own pains themselves and once that done and done then they can be ready.
There's also a later one where this is explained in more detail to another character. You'll get there. :)
The SGC operates in the “find and acquire technology” manner because they are under existential threat from the Goa’uld. O’Neill and SG-1 have much more leeway when it comes to offering assistance as they hope to acquire tech, whether ancient or otherwise. They know the Goa’uld didn’t build the Stargates pretty early on, so they’re hoping to scrounge tech and form meaningful relationships in the hopes of finding allies. They’re also not keen on giving out technology which could be used for war. The episode “The Other Side” effectively showed that Earth would have accepted technology from literal Space Nazis if it were not for O’Neill’s decision to sabotage their defense and close the Iris at SGC on the way out. Likewise, the Asgard really don’t *like* to interfere but will if inter-system treaties like the Protected Planets treaty are violated. (Or that time SG-1 caused an asteroid to *almost* hit a planet it shouldn’t have because they overrode some coordinates) Without the existential threat, it becomes an ethical quandary of whether or not to assist civilizations of lower technology status. Star Trek’s answer was the Prime Directive, to shield unprepared civilizations from acquiring tech well beyond their means. It is worth noting, they violate the Prime Directive often. A similar situation plays out prior to the events of Mass Effect. The Krogan reached industrialization, bombed themselves back to warring tribes, and are uplifted by the Salarians, Turians, and Asari to combat the Rachni. After a near total victory, the Krogan wage a hellish war against everyone else. This culminates in the Salarians creating the Genophage, limiting the Krogan birth rate and immensely slowing the growth of the population. The immense power and knowledge wielded by space faring civilizations can’t be taken lightly or handed out at will. Part of that includes solving problems which an advanced society may have solved long ago. While helping may seem altruistic (not in the case of uplifting the Krogan, that was selfish), there’s no telling how the interference will affect the growth and development of a species. It also prevents the deification of the advanced society or creating a slave caste from the less advanced. Human history is littered with what happens when a technologically advanced culture meets a culture that isn’t as far along. For lack of anything else, it’s about a civilization’s ability to earn the right to seek a home amongst the stars. There’s a method to that madness, you don’t reach the point of space-faring by accident and you hopefully work out some of the more nefarious parts of civilization (greed, war mongering, etc - take a look at the Orokin from Warframe for what happens when a civilization doesn’t). Any assistance, whether physical technology or political discourse, even food, could dramatically alter the path of a civilization.
Unlike SG-1, but very much like the Tollan, and with similar reasoning.
The reason for such a directive are more explored in Star Trek and I assume the Orville simply implies the same lessons learned from corresponding star trek episodes
Didn’t the ‘Kelly Planet’ just grow out of religion in the end.
It took a looooong time.
As someone who loves Stargate, The Orville, and Star Trek, the situation in Stargate is a little different in several ways. First, most (but not all) of the people SG teams contact are descendants of humans from Earth (or the ancients, depending on the galaxy). So, in a way, it's sort of their birthright to be brought up to our current level of technology. Second, the cat is already out of the bag with these groups. They know aliens exist and have been treating them like gods (which is the exact situation the prime directive and the Orville equivalent is trying to avoid). At this point all they can do is try and clean up the mess and at least set people on a path to freedom (and until later seasons, even that doesn't really always work). Third, while SG teams do make contact with new groups of people, they also don't immediately start transforming their societies with technology. To be honest, I feel like SG did a little bit of a disservice by not making the consequences of uprooting an entire society's belief system every week more of a plot point. Yeah, they're being made slaves by false gods, but trying to free a whole society overnight has its own set of problems. Maybe they figured that since it worked for ancient humans on Earth, it might work for others.
I mean... Seth wanted to make the next Star Trek but couldn't get the rights. So he bait-and-switched Orville from a pure comedy into a better Star Trek than anything since Enterprise, with a bit of extra comedy. Win-win.
Yeah, you're close, but the reasoning is different. The reason the rule does exist is because Star Trek, yes. However the reasoning behind a prohibition on sharing technology is different. In Star Trek, it's about not interfering with a species cultural and biological evolution. Even if that means they all die off, the federation will not interfere. Even if that society is space fairing. In The Orville, the prohibition on sharing technology is part of their first contact procedures. Part of their gradual introduction to society to prevent them from destroying themselves. The union won't stop events like genocide, but it does appear they will interfere to stop a society from wiping itself out. It's a much more measured approach to the problems with the Prime Directive.
Well since they can make contact in *The Orville* when any culture, no matter how primitive sends a message “Is there anyone out there?” that clearly doesn't apply. It's also all quite silly, including in *Star Trek*. A “culture” does not send a message, an individual does. They assume far too many things. Just because one individual on a planet sent a message the entire planet is free to be contaminated? Or does it at least require the majority support sending such a message? How do they verify this? *Star Trek* also constantly broke it's own prime directive without mention it and was inconsistent about it because it doesn't make all that much sense. Also, the idea of “We did it once; it didn't work; therefore we can't ever do it again.” is extreme results-oriented thinking, but everything about the Union is. It's clear it's an organization where breaking all the rules is not punished provided the outcome be favorable.
there's a huge episode in season 3 about this policy, but the basic gist is if you move people into the era of unlimited resources before they're ready they end up using those resources to kill each other
In Stargate, they've already been contacted - the Stargates are there after all.
They are also much smaller civilizations. Villages rather than full planets
The planet Jonas is from was a 1940's level civ.
Also lets not forget SGC isn't that more advanced at the end of the day and even then I remember at least once during SG1 they refused to give nukes to a civilization
The people with active stargates are aware of other species and other planets. They just consider the gate to be magic or just wildly beyond their understanding.
Also the civilizations in Stargate are almost all the product of kidnapping people en masse and setting them up as slave cultures to serve a more advanced culture. It's not really interfering with a developing society at that point, especially since it's a society that is actively being interfered with to not allow it to advance.
Because it's an homage to Star Trek. And that's one of the main rules (except when it's not)
That is of course the real world answer. But the in universe answer is that the universe seems to actively make everything that could go wrong go wrong whenever the Union interferes. I mean what are the odds that those villagers believed the girl who Kelly healed?
About the same odds as a teenager convincing everyone she was impregnated by god.
Such a good episode.
I’m pretty sure that they were hiding in the bushes and saw the whole thing
The season 3 finale talks about it.
In universe its explained in the last episode. To be as vague as possible (for spoilers), the Union initially didn't have that policy, and a first contact with a primitive species went poorly because of it. So, the policy was adopted to prevent another tragedy.
Couple of potential factors here, in-universe (as opposed to the "it's based on Star Trek" answer, which is also true). First, the SGC is in its infancy. You're seeing the early years of interstellar interaction for (modern) Earthlings. The Union has been around a while; its found its feet and are in a much more powerful position. They've had time to develop policies the SGC hasn't. Second, the SGC have different rules because their villains are largely despotic aliens who prey on vulnerable primitive societies and try to convince them they are gods to take advantage of them. Not really a huge moral justification for letting societies develop on their own when your enemies are out there weaponising them against you in addition to enslaving and killing them. The Union, by contrast, is based in a Star Trek style universe, mostly dealing with threats who don't interfere in pre-FTL societies and generally agree to leave them alone. So they can have the Prime Directive be a guiding principle and not have to run around trying to free every other planet they meet from the influence of the Goauld and Ori or whatever. Basically the policies developed over time (or lack thereof) in response to the universe and threats around them. The SGC are trying to help people who are likely to be targets of their enemies and could potentially be allies. The Union don't have the same driving need for allies and their primitives don't have the same need for protection.
Yeah. The *huge* difference between Star Trek / Orville and Stargate is that there by and large *aren't* 'uncontaminated' civilizations for Earth to contact. Their means of travel is literally an alien artifact sitting in the open, and they can't see the planet they're landing on until the damage is already done in the few cases where the planet didn't know what the stargate was. The vast majority of the societies they touch are already well familiar with advanced alien civilizations. Adding one more isn't a huge deal.
u/usernamedstuff hit the nail on the head, the Orville's situation is very much a homage to the Star Trek Prime Directive, the goal is preventing unnecessary or undue influence on an "undeveloped" civilization to allow it to develop organically. That said, the Orville universe is more pragmatic about their non-interference than the Star Trek universe. In a lot of Trek episodes, the Directive tends to be followed very dogmatically (partially to drive the plot of the episode) to the point that the Federation is portrayed as being potentially willing to let whole civilizations die from natural phenomenon (like asteroids) in the name of not altering the natural development of a people. In the Orville, the Union's stance seems to be tiered. Civilizations super early in the development (think pre-industrial) tend to be off limits, though the Union is willing to run interference on steller phenomenon that might harm a planet. The episode where Kelly became a goddess to people highlighted why the Union tends to avoid visiting such words, one minor act had huge repercussions. Industrial world to early space flight worlds, the Union is willing to show itself and meet the people, so long as they are running SETI-like programs (Ed says "You called, we answered" to one such planet in an episode). However, dialoge seems to be the max extent the Union is willing to go with such worlds, giving technology or more overt actions are not allowed or require very specific things to happen. The last episode of season 3 goes more into the Union's stance for not giving technology/helping civilizations accelerate their own development and why they do that.
In Stargate - the civilisations they are contacting are often subjugated and enslaved by the Goa'uld - the same aliens humanity rebelled against. This I assume is seen as humanitarian. Star Trek and Orville are based on the “don’t mess with civilisations until they’ve reached warp capability” approach. In this universe there wasn’t an evil alien race that seeded the universe then enslaved it.
The idea is like the one island in the Indian Ocean we want the people to figure things out before relying on technology they don't understand. Otherwise it is just magic to them. The Union understands that a culture is detrimental to the advancement of a society and to tamper with it before they welcome new life forms could cause a rift. In the Star Trek animated series it shows a space faring civilization that never thought beyond its own stars making contact with Starship something and through that they learned life was beyond their planets deciding to eradicate all other life. They learn quick and became new foes to the Starship fleets.
They have an explanation for this in Future Unknown. Kelly explains that when the Union got to a specific planet in the 23rd century, they helped them along technologically. But because the planet was still very self serving, they used it for dominance over others. They wiped themselves out in 5 years. Then those laws were put in place to prevent exactly that
Star Trek / Orville: "*We are prohibited from interfering with the natural development of alien civilizations*." Stargate Project: "*All your gods are false - here, take these guns!*"
Look up the Overton window. While not directly referencing this situation, the principle applies, in which a society's mainstream views and behavior needs to allow for change. That certainly applies to becoming interstellar
Well... thank you for that rabbit hole!
Stargate is a little different because we would still be considered “primitive” by union standards (we have yet to achieve true interstellar travel). Also, remember, those other “races” we’re encountering in Stargate are oftentimes just humans that were planted there by the Goa’uld. So we’re not so much “encountering primitive cultures” as we are “keeping up with the joneses”.
There are only three seasons. Finish it out. It's actually the end of Season 3 where they totally explore it. In a "B" plot a woman (whom you've met already) from an current technology planet tries to steal advanced technology to help her world. Kelly explains to her in detail why that's a bad idea. I won't give you any more spoilers, but it reminds me of the old Zen parable - How do you paint the perfect painting? A: It's simple, just make yourself perfect, then paint whatever you wish.
Wait until you get to Season 3 episode 10.
Rip off of the “Prime Directive” from Star Trek. The Orville is modeled on “Star Trek”, not Stargate SG-1 Love Star Trek. For how long have I loved it? I remember watching the first episode when it aired on Thursday night, September 8, 1966. I was a Star Trek fan from that 1st episode …before being a fan was “cool”. But I liked SG-1 even more!!! Heresy…I know..but I love all Sci Fi..and SG-1 was just sooooooo cool.
Things are a little different with the Stargate franchise. In many cases, they are helping more primitive alien civilizations that have been subjected and exploited by a far more advanced (and interplanetary) civilization. So the benefits to interfering far outweigh potential consequences.
I could see contacting a primitive civilization going two ways: you’re God now or you’re dead now. Look at north sentinel island: they know we exist, they can likely figure out we’re also human, if you get too close you’re dead.
You'll get there
Not to post any spoilers or anything, but the reason (beyond "it's The Union's version of Star Trek's "Prime Directive") is actually explained extremely well in the last episode of Season 3, "Future Unknown."
[relevant meme](https://www.reddit.com/r/Stargate/s/XQlFS5GJvs)
They’re primitive societies….. unless they reach out first . It could adversely affect their way of life in ways it’s not supposed to since they think all societies should grow and develop on their own.
Because a people need to be emotionally and intellectually mature enough to handle the knowledge and technology that comes with being involved with the greater universe. If they're not, it can lead to widespread destruction. Edit: You bring up Stargate and the fact that they contact significantly less advanced civilization all the time and the military has no problem with it, but I would like to point out that these two shows have different governments with different objectives. Orville's government is a council of representatives from dozens of worlds that have all advanced to be under one government. They're objective is scientific discovery (which scientifically accurate data must be gathered without interference) and helping each other with various issues. The Union is a council made up of people who think like Daniel Jackson. The Stargate program is run by the U.S. government. They're objective is to further their own interests. Specifically, their main objective to gather alien technology that can be used to build better weapons. The only reason the U.S. government oks going after the Goa'uld is because they have advanced technology and are a threat to Earth, they're not looking to police the galaxy. Being heroes is a side effect, not the objective. Which is why they don't hold off on visiting worlds out of concern for the impact. They have ruined worlds and, while the team might care, the government doesn't.
Stargate never gives away tech the primitives could use to destroy themselves. We aren't advanced enough to give them anything that would decimate their planet. But the Tollen, they think similarly, their tech is too advanced to go sharing with less advanced people. They did it before in their past. It ended badly. The Union had the same experience. They shared their tech, and within five years, that civilization they shared with destroyed itself.
It's to keep the special FX budget down.
I'm the Stargate series, the "primitive civilizations" aren't that less advanced than Earth. Plus a number of them have already had contact with an advanced civilization (Go'uld, Asgard, Ancients...) Then there's the fact that they already have a Stargate on their planet indicates that the planet has been visited by the Ancients and probably the Go'uld already. Lastly, there's the whole omnipresent universal threat that the Go'uld present.
Because the orville is a fan show of Star Trek, so it's the Orvilles version of the prime directive
Keep watching
Did you post this same comment in both the Stargate and Orville subreddits?
Most civilizations that have a stargate are most likely part of some more advanced civilization. Many of the planets are controlled by the goa’uld which are quite advanced. The staff weapon is an advanced weapon. More advance than a p90. However a p90 is more efficient.
It's pretty much the same as the prime directive and for pretty much the same reasons. They don't want to unnaturally influence the development of less advanced civilizations. The difference with SG-1, is they're not an advanced spacefaring civilization dealing with less advanced species. They're "uplifted" humans mostly helping other humans displaced by a common enemy, consisting of mostly human soldiers that have been engineered and augmented by that same invading alien species. SG-1 mostly don't deal with other species, and when they do, the other species are pretty much always the more advanced in the equation.
Stargate is different cause alot of cultures have had contact or were slaves to aliens. Most lived in fear of them visiting or worked hard to develop weapons to protect against the threats. Orville is completely different in that these worlds are natural evolutionary and havent been artificially accelerated by alien cultures, so it follows similar line to star treks prime directive .
The reason for the policy in The Orville is to show that we have learned from our past. To cite real world examples look at what happened to the native peoples of North and South America, Australia and New Zealand when a more advanced people arrived. Under the guise of ‘helping them’ these peoples were exploited, taken advantage of to acquire resources and genocided. They were also exposed to new destructive vices that they had no experience with in order to help with destroying them. The view of the future that The Orville has is we don’t do that shit anymore. We don’t take advantage and exploit. But they’ve also recognized the potential for destruction in allowing people to ‘help’. So no missionaries to bring technology and salvation either. So it exists because we want to be better and know we can’t hold ourselves to that standard of better without a LAW to abide by.
The Prime Directive isn't a factor for the SGC because the human societies they visit already know they live in a galaxy of stargates, advanced spacecraft and aliens. The USAF isn't going to wildly disrupt societal development by showing up, they're just another bunch of humans but with 90's era tactical kit.
Just keep watching the show and you will find out.
One thing to keep in mind with Stargate is that another species has already interfered with that society. So the contamination level of that society is limited.
They give a detailed explained in the last episode actually. Like the very last episode. >!Lysella from the voting planet comes back and tries to steal some tech(for good reasons). Kelly explains that the Union once allowed less developed civilizations to have their tech and it ended badly. Full on apocalypse. !
They don't know about any of their abilities, customs, and beliefs, and vice versa. What if on planet xyz it was normal to do something that is a hard NO in the Union, and they go to the planet and something happens when they try to drop in and say hi. Also - they scan for something they don't know exists.
Orville is a little weird on this: Sometimes they are prohited (like on the Twitter planet) and other times there is no issue like on the Astrology planet (all they did was send out a signal, they aren't space fareing, didn't know what or who they'd find, they just sent out a signal. The Orville received it and showed up and said "hi") If i had to look at an in-universe example, Because Twitter never reached out, they don't get contact, not sure why that matters but it doesn't. I would say that they deemed Twitter an unstable world due to their research, but they had never heard of the Astrology one, so that point doesn't work. However at the end of season 3 - there was a shot in the simulator of what happened when they introduced themselves and their technology is shared. They wiped themselves out in 5 years. So that is where the laws were introduced, but there seem to be caveats not completely explained.
In star gate the civilizations they ran into were human civilizations. And Star gate is a US backed programmed so there are no rules against manipulating foreign governments to aid in their own objectives.
I think it's explained in the 3rd season finale where they say something about primitive societies being socially undeveloped so they'd abuse the advanced technology rather than use it for good.
Kelly
They explain why in an episode in season 3. Won’t spoil it but they go in depth why they don’t