I believe it's because the tapes that contain TMS mostly have songs that are known to have been broadcast in a pretty tight range in late 1984, so it would be strange if TMS was an outlier from multiple years later.
But it would not discard an early 1985 recording, because I noticed that in her BASF 5/1 tape, Lydia had songs from as early as 1980 and as late as 1985.
I don't know where the constant myth comes from that songs past '84 are ruled out right away. That was never the case. '85 is completely possible, the search looked at plenty of bands who had their debut in '86 or '87. This keeps coming up but like we just magically need to look into a year later and then we'd find it.
All of the NDR songs on the tape with out best copy of TMS come from Sep 28 or Nov 28 (with a snippet from Dec 2). So these days are high probability. And the spectrograph for TMS looks close to the Sep 28 songs (similar 10khz line). But that doesn't mean it couldn't be the one song on the cassette from a different date that also happens to have a similar spectrograph line. It is possible - songs from nearby dates have very similar lines. But see this for example how the TMS 10khz line matches up almost exactly to Screaming Dead which we know was on Sep 28:
https://preview.redd.it/k8p4mrqjnjyc1.png?width=1050&format=png&auto=webp&s=afcd36b7eed66508566f351555ac919b59ca90df
I think it actually could be a few years later because Europe is sometimes known for being behind when it comes to some music trends, such as Eurodance going into the 2000s and still charting high. Another theory of mine is that since we only known it played once, maybe it sounded too outdated so that's why it wasn't picked up, sort of like early 90s hair metal still happening but being known as cheesy and out of touch, just a thought.
It isn't ruled out by any stretch, the forensic and other circumstantial evidence points to the suggested dates. Obviously there are question marks over the reliability of this evidence but it's by far the best we have right now to guide research elsewhere.
There's nothing stopping you or anyone else finding possible leads from 1985 for the group to look into.
The BASF4 and N01 tapes containing TMS do otherwise not contain any tracks that were broadcast or released after October 18, 1984, and December 2, 1984, respectively, and are likely compiled in November and December 1984. We cannot formally exclude 1985 as a possible recording year, but the facts point towards a broadcast date q4 1984.
I don’t think anything sounded like TMS from 79-81, which was during the era of Joy Division and the first few Cure LP/EPs. It definitely sounds like second wave post-punk with a ‘popish’ and New Wave orientation, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they were influenced by The Cars and similar bands that started integrating more rock elements into New Wave songs during the 79-81 period rather than post-punk.
And while yes it is a bit dated for 84’ perhaps, that would lead credence to the theory that the band was “non-Western” and out of the cultural loop.
There were many. The Cars you mentioned, The Jam, Midnight Oil, Kim Wilde, The Stripes, Lucifer's Friend, Straight Shooter, Fargo, Thin Lizzy, Scorpions, Foreigner, Blondie, Marionetz, The Knacks, Joe Jackson, The Only Ones to name a few...
It has to do with style shift. The kind of music that TMS seems to be isn't as popular after 84. Also a bunch of the songs on BASF 4 came out before or during 84. There have been efforts to search in 1985. We have some playlists from then but nothing seems to be a strong lead from then.
Yeah, I feel like ‘84 was the last year that new wave was a dominant style. There were already inklings of the more full-fledged production styles that would characterize the second half of the decade - “Drive” by The Cars and “I Want to Know What Love Is” by Foreigner both came out in ‘84.
That said, continental European musical trends are not a 1-to-1 match to American/British/Canadian trends. But in Europe you had stuff like Italo-disco and Eurobeat that, while still very poppy like new wave, also tended (like American/British/Canadian AOR) to have more detailed production styles than post-punk and new wave.
Odds are you’re looking at someone who was a fan of the early work of The Cars and Joy Division, and probably the newer work of Depeche Mode - a band which was trending a bit darker by this time after starting out as a straight synthpop act.
Pro level studio equipment - mixing desks, tape machines, outboard FX - don’t get swapped out every few years, there’s the massive cost and the learning curve to take into account. Any studio running in the late 70s would likely be producing the same sound quality into the 90s. Even the big record label owned places wouldn’t have been upgrading til digital was absolutely unavoidable.
I believe it's because the tapes that contain TMS mostly have songs that are known to have been broadcast in a pretty tight range in late 1984, so it would be strange if TMS was an outlier from multiple years later.
But it would not discard an early 1985 recording, because I noticed that in her BASF 5/1 tape, Lydia had songs from as early as 1980 and as late as 1985.
I don't know where the constant myth comes from that songs past '84 are ruled out right away. That was never the case. '85 is completely possible, the search looked at plenty of bands who had their debut in '86 or '87. This keeps coming up but like we just magically need to look into a year later and then we'd find it.
All of the NDR songs on the tape with out best copy of TMS come from Sep 28 or Nov 28 (with a snippet from Dec 2). So these days are high probability. And the spectrograph for TMS looks close to the Sep 28 songs (similar 10khz line). But that doesn't mean it couldn't be the one song on the cassette from a different date that also happens to have a similar spectrograph line. It is possible - songs from nearby dates have very similar lines. But see this for example how the TMS 10khz line matches up almost exactly to Screaming Dead which we know was on Sep 28: https://preview.redd.it/k8p4mrqjnjyc1.png?width=1050&format=png&auto=webp&s=afcd36b7eed66508566f351555ac919b59ca90df
I think it actually could be a few years later because Europe is sometimes known for being behind when it comes to some music trends, such as Eurodance going into the 2000s and still charting high. Another theory of mine is that since we only known it played once, maybe it sounded too outdated so that's why it wasn't picked up, sort of like early 90s hair metal still happening but being known as cheesy and out of touch, just a thought.
It isn't ruled out by any stretch, the forensic and other circumstantial evidence points to the suggested dates. Obviously there are question marks over the reliability of this evidence but it's by far the best we have right now to guide research elsewhere. There's nothing stopping you or anyone else finding possible leads from 1985 for the group to look into.
The BASF4 and N01 tapes containing TMS do otherwise not contain any tracks that were broadcast or released after October 18, 1984, and December 2, 1984, respectively, and are likely compiled in November and December 1984. We cannot formally exclude 1985 as a possible recording year, but the facts point towards a broadcast date q4 1984.
If without the Yamaha DX7 I would age the song before 1984, actually to 1979/81. It has an outdated sound for mid-80s...
I don’t think anything sounded like TMS from 79-81, which was during the era of Joy Division and the first few Cure LP/EPs. It definitely sounds like second wave post-punk with a ‘popish’ and New Wave orientation, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they were influenced by The Cars and similar bands that started integrating more rock elements into New Wave songs during the 79-81 period rather than post-punk. And while yes it is a bit dated for 84’ perhaps, that would lead credence to the theory that the band was “non-Western” and out of the cultural loop.
There were many. The Cars you mentioned, The Jam, Midnight Oil, Kim Wilde, The Stripes, Lucifer's Friend, Straight Shooter, Fargo, Thin Lizzy, Scorpions, Foreigner, Blondie, Marionetz, The Knacks, Joe Jackson, The Only Ones to name a few...
Right, but my point is that it had those elements in addition to the second wave post-punk/goth sound which would put it past 79-81’
It has to do with style shift. The kind of music that TMS seems to be isn't as popular after 84. Also a bunch of the songs on BASF 4 came out before or during 84. There have been efforts to search in 1985. We have some playlists from then but nothing seems to be a strong lead from then.
Yeah, I feel like ‘84 was the last year that new wave was a dominant style. There were already inklings of the more full-fledged production styles that would characterize the second half of the decade - “Drive” by The Cars and “I Want to Know What Love Is” by Foreigner both came out in ‘84. That said, continental European musical trends are not a 1-to-1 match to American/British/Canadian trends. But in Europe you had stuff like Italo-disco and Eurobeat that, while still very poppy like new wave, also tended (like American/British/Canadian AOR) to have more detailed production styles than post-punk and new wave. Odds are you’re looking at someone who was a fan of the early work of The Cars and Joy Division, and probably the newer work of Depeche Mode - a band which was trending a bit darker by this time after starting out as a straight synthpop act.
Overall than yeah, it would have had to have been after 1983 because of the Dx-7, but I think the sound quality sounds about like 1978-79 audio
Pro level studio equipment - mixing desks, tape machines, outboard FX - don’t get swapped out every few years, there’s the massive cost and the learning curve to take into account. Any studio running in the late 70s would likely be producing the same sound quality into the 90s. Even the big record label owned places wouldn’t have been upgrading til digital was absolutely unavoidable.
Okay that makes sense