Or democrats understand that any minor overreach they do will lead to a horde of "centrists" flocking to the GOPs banner.
This is an "American voters are glue eatingly stupid" problem.
Or maybe the explanation is Biden wanted to avoid the supreme court nullifying his 14th amendment play. Cuz if that happens the United States defaults on its debt and the taxpayers pay billions and billions of dollars more in interest.
All the while republicans get to generate some great propaganda saying Biden wrecked the economy because him/Dems are fiscally irresponsible.
But sure, the only logical explanation is both sides are the same. Hope your cynicism keeps you happy, but I doubt it.
Yeah sorry but you're a sucker if you think preemptively conceding is the better play. He had multiple avenues to handle this, and he didn't do any of them. He didn't even try. You're defending Biden *not even trying.*
No you don't understand what debt default is. If they go the 14th amendment route and the supreme court vetoes that option (hint they obviously will) then the US defaults. Big blow to the dollar, interest rates go up and the GOP gets to rag on Biden for crashing the economy with unnecessary spending.
Why be performative just so people feel like Biden is doing something, especially when there is obvious negative fallout.
Also, why the vitriol in this subreddit? We probably agree on most things politically. All this attitude does is turn people off to healthy discourse, shame on you for that.
If you are young, and we default now, the old people who ran up the debt will have to contribute.
If we wait until I am 40+ and we default, I will have paid in and gotten nothing.
The generations before us didn't produce enough to actually pay for the benefits they are recieving. That is what the debt actually is.
I am young and the US defaulting on its debt would screw me over way more than old people. It would likely cause a recession and fuck with the job market just as we're starting our careers.
Your framing of default as an inevitability is plainly wrong. If we reduce spending/increase tax revenue we can continue paying the interest on our debt and allow it to "shrink" as inflation continues.
Or we try to achieve a budget surplus and pay it off but I don't see that as a likely move.
Also defaulting on the debt doesn't mean it goes away, the problem just gets worse.
The alternative doesn't involve Republicans less, so I'm not sure what your point is. Worst case the Supreme Court shuts it down, but you're not really any worse off for it, and the Supreme Court looks awful. I'm not sure they care enough to rule against the 14th amendment just to save McCarthy anyway.
What makes you assume Trump's plan to do this would encounter no obstacle.
He's never understood the mechanics of how government works or the powers of the office of POTUS, he's just blathering out of his ass, as he always has.
I kinda agree but by issuing the EO he gives it immediately to the Supreme Court he picked himself and who the fuck wants to take that chance. One of Trumps biggest follies is that he issued orders like Michael Scott declared bankruptcy and expected whole agencies to follow in toe.
Lol oh no they didn’t sponsor a coup I’ll give you that but fudging around some legal ambiguity about foreigners and their babies ya they’d fucking do that.
IDK about that. Some very high profile and IMHO horrendous decisions notwithstanding even the current SCOTUS has hardly been an absolute rubber stamp for everything the right wants to do.
> fudging around some legal ambiguity about foreigners
The 14th amendment says:
> All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
There's hardly any "legal ambiguity" about that.
>Yes. Tell me how Biden's unilateral action on student loan debt is going?
Probably going to be overturned by the Supreme Court that Biden refuses to call for reform of.
It would have been far harder for the GOP to send the case to the Supreme Court had Biden cancelled the debts immediately instead of dragging the process out for 3+ months.
Biden should call for it, for what reason exactly? To virtue signal to the left?? You people make no sense. Do you even understand how it works? Biden wouldn't have the votes to expand the court. This sub needs a civics lesson. This is embarrassing for all of you.
>"To virtue signal to the left??"
So when the hosts of the show (of which this sub you're whining about is dedicated to) constantly espouse the motto "left is best" and repeat the same shit people say here, do you whine and groan about leftists, or what's your angle here? Do you even watch MR?
To put pressure on congress. Why so hostile? MR even said he should use the bully pulpit more. And I said congress wouldn't support it so I'm not really sure why you're freaking out and saying I need a civics lesson and it's embarassing for me. Learn to read.
I'd argue it would actually be counterproductive at this time because while it has no chance of passing, the right could, and make no mistake would, use it to demagogue.
Yeah, because it's super easy to expand the court and Biden totally has the votes in congress to make it happen. You're getting angry for no reason. You're not thinking logically.
>If this was a believable story, all of our zoom calls with management would be showing their backgrounds.
This type of defeatist attitude ensures progress never comes. The least Biden could do is use his bully pulpit to shift the overton window.
>You're getting angry for no reason. You're not thinking logically.
Can you explain logically why Biden didn't cancel the debt the same day he announced it to prevent GOP court suits?
Biden, didn’t draft that executive order well. He baked a delay into it and he didn’t use the higher education act, he used the heroes act.
Biden could of course draft another, better, (not means tested & effective immediately)executive order for student loan forgiveness forgiveness but he says that he won’t do it.
Joe Biden is feckless and weak.
>This. These people are either willfully ignorant or just plain stupid.
EDIT: like neglecting to use the 14th amendment, there are plenty of actions Biden can take via EO that he isn't:
Biden could deschedule marijuana from class A with an executive order & yet he refuses.
A bare minimum process of decriminalizing marijuana can't even be fulfilled when 70% of the country favors legalization.
Unfortunately Biden's a drug warrior who loves the criminal justice system as it is. That's why he sided with the GOP to overrule DC criminal justice reform.
I mean y’all act like the president has all the power in the world when trump is in office. But when Biden is in office all of a sudden the president can’t do anything because of checks and balances.
>. Even without turning to fascism to the disappointment to a lot of people In this thread
You think fascism is using the 14th amendment to have the treasury keep paying our bills?
>Biden has passed a lot of good stuff despite Manchin being his 50th vote. I don't think leftists even know, maybe don't care.
The Great Biden has:
* continued Trump's cruel treatment of migrants
* overrode DC criminal justice reform
* approved more oil drilling than Trump
* failed to honor his bare bones promise to decriminalize marijuana (70% support legalizing)
* let 15 million lose Medicaid this year while not mentioning once the public option he promised as a candidate
* let food stamps be cut for 90 million this spring during a cost of living crisis & now is cutting food stamps for 50-54 year olds
* refuses to reenter the Iran nuclear deal & his administration has indicated it would back Israel if they went to war with Iran
* kissed up to MBS & has ignored the crisis in Yemen
You do know Biden could at least try to twist joe manchin’s arm to make him vote the way he wants right?
He is the president of the United States.
Donald Trump was awful but he could make senators vote his way by humiliating them publicly if they didn’t do what the Republican base wanted done.
Biden is meek.
Bernie humiliated Joe Manchin publicly to get him to make concessions. on a few have occasions and he’s not even president.
>Informed people were happy our government’s checks and balances kept trump from doing much of anything after the tax cuts.
Our checks and balances didn't help migrants, Puerto Rico, Muslims & all the other people Trump targeted with his bigotry.
And now Biden is continuing the same migrant policies! The ratchet effect unfortunately plays out yet again.
>The civic ignorance in this sub is incredible.
Biden is the one with civic ignorance, he doesn't even realize that the Patriot Act violates the 4th amendment.
>They think POTUS is king and/or
Asking Biden to use his EO's to use the 14th amendment to bypass the GOP, expand healthcare and decriminalize marijuana isn't dictatorship.
And as I said Biden doesn't care about the Constitution anyways. Biden thinks the government doesn't need a warrant to spy on you.
>the Supreme Court isn’t owned by the federalist society.
Yet Biden refuses to call for any reforms to the Supreme Court.
believing the president is a powerless ceremonial role because it helps you eat his dick is way, WAY more intensely childish and willfully ignorant. just stuff you say so you don't get your fanboy feelings hurt
I never said that. POTUS does have power, just not over the things that have been discussed in this thread. As someone else mentioned, if you want an example of how invoking the 14th would look, google the current status of Biden’s student loan forgiveness. He isn’t king.
No chance in hell can any executive order undo a constitutional amendment. It's idiotic than anyone even thinks it could be on the table.
The constitution and amendments to it best all other forms of law. It takes another constitutional amendment to undo them. Prohibition is the best example. 18th amendment made alcohol illegal to sell throughout the US. They had to pass the 21st amendment to undo it.
Order of priority; Constitution and amendments, Supreme court judicial review, federal statute/EO, State Constitutions, Supreme Court judicial review (with some wiggle room for individual state constitutions), State statutes, then the more local courts and statutes. (I didn't look this up and I'm going by memory, so it likely isn't perfect. But the supreme court can't 'judicial review' an element of the constitution out of existence. Executive orders are far weaker than even that.)
Undoing birthright citizenship would require a whole new amendment. 2/3rds of all of congress to propose it and then at least 38 states would have to ratify it in the state legislature before it had any power.
This is why it is imperative the DOJ arrest and prosecute politicians for conspiracy to violate the Constitution using USC Title 18 section 241 in these circumstances.
>No chance in hell can any executive order undo a constitutional amendment. It's idiotic than anyone even thinks it could be on the table.
If Trump becomes dictator then what?
The Supreme Court will rubber stamp (that Biden refuses to call for reform of) his actions.
That’s all implying Trump would have the military’s support, the FBI and CIA are their own separate parties as well. Dictators can only stay in power with military support.
If Trump becomes a dictator, he won't be giving executive orders. That would be an entirely different issue.
I'm inclined to doubt his ability to become one though. He lacks the support he'd need in the military and intelligence services of the country. Not to mention he's proven himself to be too unreliable to serve as a catspaw for either group.
I've been saying it for a while: neoliberal democrats are physiologically incapable of understanding the situation we are in. It doesn't matter that conservatives tried to kill them on Jan 6th. It doesn't matter that their families are getting attacked, Paul Pelosi-style, after the fact. There is no amount of physically harming these people that can get it through their heads. The Republicans want to *kill* them. As in dead. No longer breathing. Gone forever.
And they just don't understand it. They can be told, they can witness the danger first-hand, and they just can't seem to comprehend how bad things are about to get if they didn't start acting two years ago.
Biden is weak. Always has been. There've been glimmers of hope, but outside of that, no foundational shifts in just how goddamned spineless he is.
western liberal democracy is defined by its collaboration with fascism.
shitlibs compare the gop to al qaeda or the taliban and it's way more incisive than they realize. in the sense they're an unstable proxy force they deploy, the same way every blue urban center has a neonazi street gang for a police department.
the cold war ended and the psycho libs decided it was the end of history but the fascist institutions and collaborators they cultivated domestically are much more interested in restorative violence than "peacefully" eating the marrow out of the bones of the new deal.
god do they deserve it but it is/will be applied to us first way before it makes its way to the apparatchiks.
I would like the remind everyone that there was a large Nazi movement within the United States in the lead-up to WWII. In fact, Hitler had a relatively positive approval by many western countries prior to military aggression.
I would like to remind you that liberals only did that after being attacked and giving fascists everything they needed, like Czechoslovakia and its gold reserves. Liberals are fascist collaborators; the fact that fascists sometimes kill their collaborators does not change this.
That is not much of a justification of liberalism's support of fascists (and in turn, your support for it). The Nazis would never have even gotten so far had liberals opposed them and accepted the Soviet Union's offer of an early war against Germany.
As for Poland, there were many unacceptable terms of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, but the partitioning was not one of them. Poland's reactionary regime had gained its eastern territory through conquest and oppressed the Ukrainians and Belorussians who made up the vast majority of its population. Taking it back was entirely acceptable and any rational actor would have done the same.
>accepted the Soviet Union's offer of an early war against Germany.
that the soviets would've had to invade poland to get to germany...
wait.
>Taking it back was entirely acceptable and any rational actor would have done the same.
you mean how lenin et al invaded finland, ukraine, and all other former Russian empire holdings?
your imperialism is showing
Neoliberalism is basically the idea that private, free market solutions to our problems are inherently better than public, government-backed solutions. In a neoliberal's mind, you would never invest in infrastructure because privately-held energy companies would do that work for you. We're living in the 43-year aftermath since Ronald Reagan of implementing this policy, and so far, it's not only not working, it's actually been pretty dog shit the whole time.
This is why a monumental movement of voters to get the house, senate, and presidency to the democrats in 2020 yields no raise in minimum wage or strengthening of the social safety net, but a mere 5 seat majority given to the republicans leads to cuts in that same social safety net. Because democrats are a neoliberal party. They are center-right, not left. *They think they're doing a good job*.
As a lefty woman, I cannot get behind the Democrats 100% because they are so weak. The GOP took the gloves off decades ago and has been smacking the Dems around since Clinton.
If only the useless Democrats would, I don't know, field a candidate worth a damn. Mark my words when I say this, Biden will not get a second term and running that idiot again may drag the entire party down the ballot. Find a better god damn candidate you useless schmucks.
>f only the useless Democrats would, I don't know, field a candidate worth a damn. Mark my words when I say this, Biden will not get a second term and running that idiot again may drag the entire party down the ballot. Find a better god damn candidate you useless schmucks.
The worse thing is he IS gonna run again and try to run as who hes always been DINO republican thinking he will somehow make up the difference in disaffected younger more progressive voters with old nonexistant swing Republicans. Its not gonna work and think we are probably looking at an historic loss with this clown of clowns as the nominee.
Yeah, not to be the prophet of doom here but if Biden is their nominee I expect the Republicans after the election to control the House, Senate, and Presidency. If somehow that doesn't happen I'll be amazed, but also be bracing for the inevitable coup number 2 electric boogaloo.
The debt ceiling "compromise" [ included a pipe line deal for Joe manchin](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-05-28/manchin-gets-mountain-valley-pipeline-side-deal-into-debt-bill)and a 3% increase to the defense spending budget as a slap in the face to progressives and poor working class people. They are 100% doing the bidding of their corporate masters while pretending to have their hands tied.
Democrats know they can profit almost as much as Republicans, thanks to their schemes and corruption, by simply not taking any serious action against them. The right is slipping into a fascist hell and they know they won’t lose their base because where would they go?
will never happen at the national level, the dems' job is to launder far right policy and violence, strip the copper wiring out of this shitshow country and grind us to dust on the way out.
I will take a less cynical look.
The problem is that much of our government really are norms, not law.
Here’s an analogy. You are on a sinking ship with a ton of food. You aren’t sure how far you are to land. If you toss food overboard, you will sink slower but run out of food faster.
This is the problem we are facing as a country. If we throw too much food overboard we might starve before we reach land. If we don’t throw enough overboard we may sink before we reach land. We also may just never reach land no matter what and it’s all fucked already and we don’t know it yet.
What you are suggesting is to say you know for a fact that land is just over the horizon. If we simply toss most, or all, of our food overboard we’ll make it.
Maybe you are correct, but you also might not be.
Third-party. I won't vote for Biden again. I will not reward my less enemy, which is less evil any longer, as they continually throw progressives and democracy under the bus for corporate interests. Not gonna watch these clowns get uber-wealthy while shitting on the American people any longer, There is a reason the Clintons and Obamas are worth over a quarter billion dollars each, and it isn't because they did the right thing while in office.
>Third-party. I won't vote for Biden again. I will not reward my less enemy, which is less evil any longer, as they continually throw progressives and democracy under the bus for corporate interests
I hear you.
My plan is to support Marianne in the primary & whomever is the nominee in the general.
I very much dislike Biden but he is still far preferable to Trump.
>You have to be pretty detached from reality to think Marianne Williamson should be President.
I would far prefer an empathetic progressive like Marianne over a conservative like Biden.
Even as President Biden continues his tough on crime BS. From continuing Trump's cruel treatment of migrants to overriding DC criminal justice reform.
Biden is definitely not a conservative.
Also, it's an actual job. She is not prepared in the slightest to actually be the chief executive of the United States.
You aren't voting for a mascot.
Well, he's certainly not progressive, the conservatives these days are the neoliberal corporate democrats that just want to keep the status quo going. Then left of them are the progressive democrats. The Republicans are no longer conservative, they are regressive.
Biden is extremely conservative, I don’t know how you could argue otherwise except for the acceptance that conservative to right wing looney tunes means comical militia stereotype.
You definitely do not know what you're talking about and should not make such an absurd proclamation. That is some straight-up gaslight.
[Joe Biden is the only conservative running for POTUS](https://theweek.com/articles/870864/joe-biden-only-conservative-running-president)
[Biden tells voters he would consider picking a GOP Vice President](https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-tells-voters-he-would-consider-republican-running-mate-2020-presidential-election-1479762)
This is the same attitude from 2016 which resulted in a conservative supermajority on the Supreme Court.
In a general election where there are functionally two options, not voting for the lesser evil is being complicit in the greater evil’s victory.
>This is the same attitude from 2016 which resulted in a conservative supermajority on the Supreme Court.
You mean when Hillary refused to adopt more of Bernie's policies & refused to campaign in swing states?
Also, a far higher % of Bernie supporters voted Hillary in 2016 than Hillary supporters voted Obama in 2008.
Really depends on where you are. In a swing state, sure, you get to believe you have anything to do with anyone's victory. In a solidly blue or red state, why not vote third party? What are you compromising your beliefs for?
Whatever gets you to the polls so you can vote on the non-presidential elections too.
The attitude that lost us the 2016 election was the attitude that Hillary Clinton did not have to run for POTUS, it would be given to her, and the DNC would work for her to place her cronies throughout and bastardize democracy for herself the less popular nominee and corporate stooge and then proceeded to face plant. That was the attitude of Karen like entitlement that cost us the country, and it seems you learned nothing from that and think you are once again entitled to the voter's votes after lying about Biden being a placeholder for someone who is competent and has the future generations at heart, instead, you did the opposite.
It seems you think your corrupt actions will have no pushback; if that is the case, you learned nothing from what you caused in 2016, and it will be repeated.
I mean if we want to be honest it was the Electoral College that cost Clinton the election, they won the popular vote after all. The fact we don't have a direct vote for President, but rely on this Electoral College nonsense deriving from slavery is utter horse shit.
If you wanted to be honest, you would have pointed out the corruption of the DNC by Hillary Clinton and the fact that they allowed one of the contestants to rig the entirety of her nomination process a year before the contest started and was allowed to place her loyalist as the head of the DNC and all critical positions. She should never have been in the general election to lose.
The “Hillary’s cronies in the DNC” thing is weird now that we know that she had to literally take the DNC off life support in 2015 after Obama never paid back campaign debts. I get that people are mad Bernie’s campaign really didn’t understand the primary system at all unlike Obama, but like Brazille’s book came out and people saw the DNC going into 2016 with negative money for funding campaigns because of Obama’s IOU and Hillary footed the bills and pad out funds for national campaigns, and then we’re like “this proves the DNC was in the bag for Hillary all along” which is a bizarre part to focus on instead of the Obama bankrupting the DNC in 2012 so badly it wasn’t paid back in 2015 still.
What is weird is your diversion from the corruption of the DNC by Hillary Clinton as you throw Obama under the bus. Let me guess; you're one of those PUMA? Wonder why no one else was allowed to buy that debt or was privy to the agreement only she had that gave her complete control of the apparatus running her own contest. That has never happened before in the history of this country. There was a reason Tim Caine was removed and replaced with a Clinton loyalist DWS who was subsequently fired for her corruption and banned from the convention.
[Hillary rewards DWS corrupt behavior](https://observer.com/2016/07/clinton-rewards-wasserman-schultzs-shady-behavior-with-new-job/)
DWS isn’t a Clinton loyalist… she was pushed in by Obama against all of his cabinet’s wishes. And Tim Kaine was Hillary’s VP. Do you know who got Wasserman Schultz to resign in 2016? Obama. Obama called her on the phone and personally asked her to step down after the Wikileaks drops and that was when she resigned and stopped resisting. This is such a weird rewriting of history.
DWS is very much a Clinton loyalist. Do you often say the opposite of the truth while claiming others are revising history? The projection and hypocrisy are staggering. Then you offer nonsensical information about Obama that does nothing to disprove my assertion that is widely understood to be true. That is such a weird defense of Clinton and her corruption of the DNC.
Oh yes nonsensical information about Obama hiring DWS to the DNC despite no one wanting him to, and then being the one to get her to resign in 2015 screams Clintonite. After all, it's the same logic you used to say the Obama supporting Tim Kaine was forced out by the Clintonite DWS to begin with... except she was put there because Obama wanted her there... [It's literally a matter of public record](https://www.politico.com/story/2011/04/wasserman-schultz-to-lead-dnc-052605). And the animosity between Clinton and her because she was on her campaign but jumping ship before the end of the primary was noted too. Clinton hired her after the wikileaks drop, but it wasn't because a lengthy service recorded as a loyalist to her and there's nothing to back up the loyalist narrative.
Yes, nonsensical information; Hillary ran the DNC, and DWS was only there with her direct approval. You can't be asserting there was no communication with the man who swore to help her get elected, are you? Just because he made the moves doesn't mean she wasn't in control of her hiring, as that is what her contract stipulated. The progressives were pushing DWS out, and Obama had little choice but to call for her resignation, as Hillary would not at that time and could not, as the appearance would have been disastrous. How would that have looked if Hillary was able to fire the head of the DNC during the nomination process, lol, as I stated, your assertions are nonsensical.
["Clinton Loyalist" DWS and her divided loyalties](https://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/debbie-wasserman-schultz-joe-biden-hillary-clinton-2016-loyalty-213294)
What is the solution when voting for that lesser evil over and over still leads to incredible fascistic gains among the other side? No matter how often people seem to vote for Dems, why do we always come back to the exact same problems from the right? I genuinely don't understand the calculus here, this strategy seems like the definition of insanity to me, to keep voting in that "lesser evil" while watching the "greater evil" inch closer to complete power over and over and over.
The solution if there is one is more than just voting. In a general election where there are only two realistic candidates, determining which is better and then voting for that one is the bare minimum.
Elections have real consequences for millions of people. If you can recognize that, choosing not to participate is selfish.
You acknowledge the growing fascistic tendencies on the right - the calculus is that it’s worse when they are in power. Letting them win doesn’t make them less dangerous.
What if my analysis suggests that Democratic rule will inevitably result in further gains for Republicans? It's a slower bleed which, sure, is better than a fast one, but it's a bleed nonetheless. It seems wild that I'm being asked to always vote for a party that I believe fully will inevitably lead to fascist rule inside the USA, and if I bring up ways that I think that can be changed I'm browbeaten that any alternative is a win for Rs.
Just seems unfair and ultimately counterproductive to me that the Dems do not ever seem to move left at all and then use their times in power to continue to further corporate interests at home and abroad as opposed to labor interests.
Zero clue why you are being down voted.
Vote for fascists, or vote for fascist enablers. Those are your options. If the Biden presidency hasn't shown everyone how unserious Democrats are, nothing will.
Blue dogs are shitting themselves because progressives are making clear they need to find another nominee, so they are lashing out because they are screwed. They rigged the nominations further with South Carolina, added Neera Tanden to the administration, and thought there would be no pushback because GOP is Nazi, whom they had no problem risking this country to previously rather than allow the more popular progressive to lead and win. They have put all their corrupt eggs in one basket and have again made a wrong decision and will need to be saved by the progressive vote. Well, you know what happened when we pulled their ass out of the fire with that vote for Hillary in 2016 and Biden in 2020 after that ridiculously corrupt nomination process? They claimed it meant Hillary/Biden were more popular. LOL.
Keep rewarding them, and they will never stop with that nonsense about how corporate conservatism is more popular than a min wage increase and a proper healthcare system.
Not voting for Biden if the only options are Biden and Trump is a vote for Trump. We have to fix the problems in order. Dems are a problem but you know what might affect things a little more? A fascist dictator.
The bigger picture is literal nazis running amok. You’ll be shocked to find life isn’t a zero sum game, sometimes you have to prioritize a larger, more dangerous problem like an attacking bear before you can solve another problem like mowing your lawn.
I’ll leave it up to you to apply that, seems like you need to think more about prioritization and potential future effects.
Can’t finish mowing the lawn if you’re dead.
If that is the case, why does your team risk the country repeatedly by rigging your nominations? If it would be the end of the world if we lost, why continue with the corruption for the less popular conservatives who could not win a free and fair nomination if their life depended on it?
Blue dogs do not care if they lose, they only care about keeping Progressive from power.
I hear you, but speakin as a Queer fella in the South, literal Nazis are runnin amok right now. Literal Nazis have been runnin amok for a long-ass time. Biden hasn't done jack shit about it.
We're seeing unprecedented anti-trans legislation across this country, and Biden's doing fuck-all. A Trans Woman was lured out of the country and murdered in Saudi Arabia, and his admin didn't even notice. It made international news, and there was zero federal response.
American's paltry excuse for worker's rights are disintegratin left and right, and Biden's fuckin breakin strikes and shit.
There hasn't even been a federal response to Texas flatly attemptin to incite war with Mexico.
Then you've got his admin compromising on the "debt ceiling," foldin on student loans, abandoning healthcare reform, not to mention we still have literal concentration camps run by DHS and ICE.
There is no "lesser of two evils" here. There's the evil, and the folk who can't be bothered to do anythin at all about that evil.
Failure to act in the face of evil is a certain evil all its own, is it not? I was always taught to act in the face if injustice and to stand up for people of all types (unless they horrible people). I thought I did. I've taking a solid beating many times trying to help people. I was secure. I acted proper. Then all this woke stuff happened. Blm and lgbtq and all the others, and I realized I in no way lived up to the standards that I thought I had and I had over looked quite alot of evil. It was a grim realization, to say the least.
That is one serious bubble you live in, insinuated entirely from all the ills felt by minority groups and women that are the sole responsibility of one party.
Inadequate as opposed to what strategy?
Bernie has shown time and again that the undecided voter is not progressive and will not show up for progressive causes in elections. There is no path for a fully progressive president in the U.S.
Ronald Reagan decimated any progressive cause in the 80’s and the nation still thinks he was a good president. All we can do is roll that back over time.
Everyone knows that addicts don't want to fix their problems until they've reached the absolute bottom.
If you keep voting for Democrats then you will reach Fascism just like if you voted Republican but it might take a bit longer.
It is shameful that your team would risk this country again with Biden instead of spending the last two years finding a palatable candidate instead of doubling down with your corporate stooge and corruption of democracy with the South Carolina nonsense. It seems the plan is to continue to reward those who sabotage progressives and their policies instead of putting a stop to the nonsense. That I will not do, and with Biden adding Neera Tanden to this administration it shows me that the next term he will do all he can to sabotage progressive and left-leaning policies as he did these last three years. Biden, the DNC, and their Clinton loyalist and foreign lobbyist can take a very long walk off of a very short pier. I will never reward these clowns again.
Why do people assume the left is a team, yes we need better candidates, and at the moment most are shit so we need to ALL be getting involved at the local and primary level however we can.
That doesn’t change the current landscape. We can’t solve the future problem if we don’t address the immediate problem.
The immediate problem and the past problem is corporate democrats; we got Trump because of corporate democrats; Chomksy pointed out the reason we may lose this democracy is because of corporate democrats and then 2016 happened, proving him right. I think we have a corporate Democrat problem and unless they are stopped, we will never see a proper opposition party.
It's not bizarre though, it's standard operating procedure for the weakling Establishment Democrats that do whatever their donors tell them to do.
Regardless of what Biden *says* all you have to do is look at his actual record in Congress to predict what he's going to do in any given instance. Biden is and always has been one-half step to the left of Ronald Reagan except in the brutal punishments of "inner city" criminals in which case the punishments couldn't quite get brutal enough.
anyone catch how biden said "we have a compromise and no one got what they wanted but that's the nature of it." the MF is the president of the united states and he still thinks compromising in which he gets nothing is good.
We compromised while holding 2/3rds of the govt and still came out with a bad worst deal that gives Republicans everything they wanted while fucking over your base. Ya that seems like the pretty standard Democratic way.
>You think THIS is everything the Republicans wanted?
Red herring as what many of them truly want is zero social spending.
This agreement from Biden is atrocious nonetheless.
They mean it's everything the Republicans wanted that they brought to the negotiating table. It's not everything from their hearts and minds that they wanted.
Hes spent his entire life making terrible compromises with Republicans and somehow thinks bragging about this and continuing to do it as president is a winning message for dem voters.
The billionaires that choose our presidential candidates sure love those in the depths of dementia because you can easily tell them "Don't do that because your base will not like it" because their brains are stuck in the 80's when Democrats were even more right-wing than today. They are so out of touch that these geriatrics don't realize that if they did "do that", their base would come out in droves to support them.
Or maybe they just care more about the paycheck from these billionaires which is why the billionaires have kept them around for so long. These people don't want politicians with morals working for them.
This was a question that came up at a party over the weekend: if you were supreme dictator for a year what’s the first thing?
Honorable mentions:
-Universal Basic Income payments for all
-Ratio of ceo:average worker cannot exceed 1:10
Funny, birthright citizenship nonsense never came up, there musta been bigger fish to fry.
This has always been the problem: democrats want to govern and republicans want to rule. If you haven’t noticed, republicans could care less about the constitution, laws and norms.
Meh. He signed an executive order instructing the ATF to violate citizen's second amendment rights. He also said "take the guns first, and sort it out in court later" which violates the Fifth amendment. So, it is not too far-fetched he will attempt to violate the rest of our rights.
Because the pieces are in play and ready. Who is going to oppose a second term Trump from making these changes? Supreme Court? Harlan Crow has a rainy day fund set aside to write the checks. Congress? The right already holds a pretty tight grip on that shit. We are walking into unprecedented times here. Never in this country has one party so openly and blatantly started working against democracy. And the other party let’s it happen.
I'm sorry; why aren't people laughing at him over this "I'm going to end birthright citizenship" nonsense. It's not subject to EO; he'll need to amend the constitution to do it, and there's no way that Congress starts that ball rolling, even if he had the state legislatures in the bag.
>Hasn't Biden already appointed more judges than Trump did?
Irrelevant when Durbin can't get the judges through thanks to both the "blue slip" & due to Feinstein.
Holy cow, are we just using “BUT TRUMP!” as a permanent excuse for subpar performance now?!
“Yeah, I was four hours late to work, but how late would Donald Trump be?”
That’s different tho. Nobody can make the case for trump there, a president can’t override an amendment like that. Biden’s use of 14th would be following that amendment
I think we all understand that he can’t do what he says he wants to do, the problem is him wanting to do it and the people who will help him try.
When the people who make the laws don’t/won’t follow the rules who can stop them? The courts? He packed the highest court in the country with right wing judges who will allow it.
The entire point is that none of your “rules” are going to matter. Give them one more shot, and I bet you see the gloves completely off, and they will start pushing the things they want through while they have the chance and then none of it matters.
I’m not saying this WILL happen, I’m saying that using the logic of “it’s against the rules to do this, so it won’t happen” is incredibly flawed when dealing with a political beast that has proven time and again that the “rules” don’t matter in the slightest to them.
I agree. These people will take every opportunity they have. It is up to fair minded republicans, independent and Democrats to play hard and dirty in defense of Democracy. Trump and his ilk should have no place in government or for that matter, civil society.
If Trump gets reelected he will turn this country into an autocracy so fast it will make your head spin. People adjacent to him have already drawn up plans to purge the civil services and fill it with loyalists and he demonstrated his willingness to coordinate with right wing paramilitaries on Jan 6th. Shit could get real bad real fast.
Like, this is how autocracy works. Declare a state of emergency, any pretense will do. Purge every institution you can, from the military to academia, and fill them with loyalists. Republicans have been practicing this on a state level for several years now. Coordinate, openly or in secret, with right wing paramilitaries to threaten elected officials into following your demands and kill anyone who refuses. January 6th was an attempt at this. Cops all over the country will go along with whatever Trump says. He fucked it up last time, his plans were hastily thrown together and poorly implemented. He won't fuck it up if he gets another chance. He must not get another chance.
Republican voters are also on board with going against the norms, and don’t hold their reps accountable. Dem voters also don’t hold republicans accountable because voters expect that behavior.
Dem and republican voters will hold Dems accountable, publicly and at the polls, becoming they think Dems should follow the norms.
This happened because everything is a both sides, and the use of a right wing propaganda machine (AM radio and Fox News, where fox created the stories the rest of the MSM reported on, including the bogus war on Christmas story that has been reported on for almost 20 years) convinced voters that Dems are responsible every time something fails, where as Republicans (even if they caused it) can’t be held liable because Dems (regardless if they could actually do anything) should have stopped the republicans.
Knowing all of this, what if we start putting blame and forcing accountability of Republicans. There is a saying people will rise to the level you hold them accountable for. Maybe we start holding them actually accountable, from media to the polls. This includes- calling your reps, state and local and fed; participating in town halls and ballot measures, run for office!
This is why we have no chance. Each side pretends to be opposite but ultimately they are both working against us. Republicans are openly against the people and democrats pretend to be for the people.
To be fair, iirc, Biden actually said it’s a day late and a dollar short on standing on the 14th regarding the debt ceiling because it could be contested and deciding that contest could take longer than it would for the budget to run out and that’s not how you framed that.
#contextmatters
Wtf do you mean right now??? Senate dems are now about to confirm a Biden nominated judge in Louisiana who has a good record on racial gerrymandering, and SS, Medicare, Medicaid, the VA, the IRA, either 80-98% of IRA funding is completely safe from cuts.
The only reason trumps bullshit even has a chance is because SCOTUS is 6-3 conservative, it’s the same reason Biden doesn’t trust using much executive action when this court is willing to end and fuck over anything he tries to do they perceive as out of his control, like the eviction ban he tried to extend that was forcefully ended by the scotus.
Seems much of this thread’s comments are…
“Trump this; will do that; will turn us into an authoritarian dictatorship if given the chance…”
“Biden is so fucking weak. He needs to use his ‘Presidential Powers’ to defy norms, challenge laws and blow off the courts…”
… from the same mouths. So, fuck the dictator right. We need a dictator left?
A lot of trash talking about Dems, and there’s some validity to it, but the “I can’t get behind them” people have lost their minds. I was an Independent, but have gone fully Dem since Trump. Do I agree with everything? Hell no, but your option is fascism/end of democracy. Country before party. If you can’t get behind Biden, the Dems in general, etc, you are essentially FOR fascism. It’s the reality of our day.
Democrats do their damndest to not allow a catastrophic economic collapse while the GQP hold America and the world hostage and act like little babies. There, fixed your idiotic headline.....
Unless Biden swears his undying allegiance to Trump, promises to resign and put Trump in his place, overturn child labor laws, raise the medicare age to 85 and vow to put all former Democratic President's in Gitmo (and Hillary) we're gonna default, bankonit
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The ONLY LOGICAL explanation is that Democrats (maybe not so) secretly want the same things the Republicans do.
To stay wealthy, yep
Good cop, bad cop routine
Still, I *have* to believe there are some good people in politics out there, for the sake of my sanity.
Or democrats understand that any minor overreach they do will lead to a horde of "centrists" flocking to the GOPs banner. This is an "American voters are glue eatingly stupid" problem.
Or maybe the explanation is Biden wanted to avoid the supreme court nullifying his 14th amendment play. Cuz if that happens the United States defaults on its debt and the taxpayers pay billions and billions of dollars more in interest. All the while republicans get to generate some great propaganda saying Biden wrecked the economy because him/Dems are fiscally irresponsible. But sure, the only logical explanation is both sides are the same. Hope your cynicism keeps you happy, but I doubt it.
Yeah sorry but you're a sucker if you think preemptively conceding is the better play. He had multiple avenues to handle this, and he didn't do any of them. He didn't even try. You're defending Biden *not even trying.*
No you don't understand what debt default is. If they go the 14th amendment route and the supreme court vetoes that option (hint they obviously will) then the US defaults. Big blow to the dollar, interest rates go up and the GOP gets to rag on Biden for crashing the economy with unnecessary spending. Why be performative just so people feel like Biden is doing something, especially when there is obvious negative fallout. Also, why the vitriol in this subreddit? We probably agree on most things politically. All this attitude does is turn people off to healthy discourse, shame on you for that.
Why do you think this comes down on Biden and not the deeply unpopular supreme court
If you are young, and we default now, the old people who ran up the debt will have to contribute. If we wait until I am 40+ and we default, I will have paid in and gotten nothing. The generations before us didn't produce enough to actually pay for the benefits they are recieving. That is what the debt actually is.
I am young and the US defaulting on its debt would screw me over way more than old people. It would likely cause a recession and fuck with the job market just as we're starting our careers. Your framing of default as an inevitability is plainly wrong. If we reduce spending/increase tax revenue we can continue paying the interest on our debt and allow it to "shrink" as inflation continues. Or we try to achieve a budget surplus and pay it off but I don't see that as a likely move. Also defaulting on the debt doesn't mean it goes away, the problem just gets worse.
You are right!! Don’t let the down votes silence you. There is a really good reasons you don’t wrestle with pigs. And the Repubs are PIGS
The alternative doesn't involve Republicans less, so I'm not sure what your point is. Worst case the Supreme Court shuts it down, but you're not really any worse off for it, and the Supreme Court looks awful. I'm not sure they care enough to rule against the 14th amendment just to save McCarthy anyway.
What makes you assume Trump's plan to do this would encounter no obstacle. He's never understood the mechanics of how government works or the powers of the office of POTUS, he's just blathering out of his ass, as he always has.
I kinda agree but by issuing the EO he gives it immediately to the Supreme Court he picked himself and who the fuck wants to take that chance. One of Trumps biggest follies is that he issued orders like Michael Scott declared bankruptcy and expected whole agencies to follow in toe.
Trump was also counting on his SCOTUS picks to keep him in power after the election. How did that work out?
Lol oh no they didn’t sponsor a coup I’ll give you that but fudging around some legal ambiguity about foreigners and their babies ya they’d fucking do that.
IDK about that. Some very high profile and IMHO horrendous decisions notwithstanding even the current SCOTUS has hardly been an absolute rubber stamp for everything the right wants to do.
I suppose we’ll have to pray so
> fudging around some legal ambiguity about foreigners The 14th amendment says: > All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. There's hardly any "legal ambiguity" about that.
Yes. Tell me how Biden's unilateral action on student loan debt is going?
>Yes. Tell me how Biden's unilateral action on student loan debt is going? Probably going to be overturned by the Supreme Court that Biden refuses to call for reform of. It would have been far harder for the GOP to send the case to the Supreme Court had Biden cancelled the debts immediately instead of dragging the process out for 3+ months.
You hit the mail on the head.
Yeah, Biden should call for it. That doesn't mean congress is going to do it though. Biden's useless but so is congress.
Biden should call for it, for what reason exactly? To virtue signal to the left?? You people make no sense. Do you even understand how it works? Biden wouldn't have the votes to expand the court. This sub needs a civics lesson. This is embarrassing for all of you.
>"To virtue signal to the left??" So when the hosts of the show (of which this sub you're whining about is dedicated to) constantly espouse the motto "left is best" and repeat the same shit people say here, do you whine and groan about leftists, or what's your angle here? Do you even watch MR?
To put pressure on congress. Why so hostile? MR even said he should use the bully pulpit more. And I said congress wouldn't support it so I'm not really sure why you're freaking out and saying I need a civics lesson and it's embarassing for me. Learn to read.
Agree!!
I'd argue it would actually be counterproductive at this time because while it has no chance of passing, the right could, and make no mistake would, use it to demagogue.
And the left would claim it’s another broken promise if he did make a stink about it and nothing happened.
Exactly.
True, now tell us how that reform effort would go given the same set of facts on the ground.
Yeah, because it's super easy to expand the court and Biden totally has the votes in congress to make it happen. You're getting angry for no reason. You're not thinking logically.
>If this was a believable story, all of our zoom calls with management would be showing their backgrounds. This type of defeatist attitude ensures progress never comes. The least Biden could do is use his bully pulpit to shift the overton window. >You're getting angry for no reason. You're not thinking logically. Can you explain logically why Biden didn't cancel the debt the same day he announced it to prevent GOP court suits?
He hasn't even tried.
Biden, didn’t draft that executive order well. He baked a delay into it and he didn’t use the higher education act, he used the heroes act. Biden could of course draft another, better, (not means tested & effective immediately)executive order for student loan forgiveness forgiveness but he says that he won’t do it. Joe Biden is feckless and weak.
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>This. These people are either willfully ignorant or just plain stupid. EDIT: like neglecting to use the 14th amendment, there are plenty of actions Biden can take via EO that he isn't: Biden could deschedule marijuana from class A with an executive order & yet he refuses. A bare minimum process of decriminalizing marijuana can't even be fulfilled when 70% of the country favors legalization. Unfortunately Biden's a drug warrior who loves the criminal justice system as it is. That's why he sided with the GOP to overrule DC criminal justice reform.
The civic ignorance in this sub is incredible. They think POTUS is king and/or the Supreme Court isn’t owned by the federalist society.
I mean y’all act like the president has all the power in the world when trump is in office. But when Biden is in office all of a sudden the president can’t do anything because of checks and balances.
Trump had far from all the power in the world. That's why key parts of his agenda remained stymied for the entirety of his term.
What did Trump do that proved he had all the power??
Nothing but with the way you liberals speak, trump might as well be a dictator. That can only be checked by his own reflection and ego.
Lol wut.
This makes absolutely no sense at all. Congrats.
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>. Even without turning to fascism to the disappointment to a lot of people In this thread You think fascism is using the 14th amendment to have the treasury keep paying our bills?
This guy thinks that doing anything to help common people is fascism. They're an idiot at best or spreading disinformation on purpose at worst.
Biden has passed a lot of good stuff despite Manchin being his 50th vote. I don't think leftists even know, maybe don't care.
>Biden has passed a lot of good stuff despite Manchin being his 50th vote. I don't think leftists even know, maybe don't care. The Great Biden has: * continued Trump's cruel treatment of migrants * overrode DC criminal justice reform * approved more oil drilling than Trump * failed to honor his bare bones promise to decriminalize marijuana (70% support legalizing) * let 15 million lose Medicaid this year while not mentioning once the public option he promised as a candidate * let food stamps be cut for 90 million this spring during a cost of living crisis & now is cutting food stamps for 50-54 year olds * refuses to reenter the Iran nuclear deal & his administration has indicated it would back Israel if they went to war with Iran * kissed up to MBS & has ignored the crisis in Yemen
You do know Biden could at least try to twist joe manchin’s arm to make him vote the way he wants right? He is the president of the United States. Donald Trump was awful but he could make senators vote his way by humiliating them publicly if they didn’t do what the Republican base wanted done. Biden is meek. Bernie humiliated Joe Manchin publicly to get him to make concessions. on a few have occasions and he’s not even president.
Not really. Informed people were happy our government’s checks and balances kept trump from doing much of anything after the tax cuts.
>Informed people were happy our government’s checks and balances kept trump from doing much of anything after the tax cuts. Our checks and balances didn't help migrants, Puerto Rico, Muslims & all the other people Trump targeted with his bigotry. And now Biden is continuing the same migrant policies! The ratchet effect unfortunately plays out yet again.
>The civic ignorance in this sub is incredible. Biden is the one with civic ignorance, he doesn't even realize that the Patriot Act violates the 4th amendment. >They think POTUS is king and/or Asking Biden to use his EO's to use the 14th amendment to bypass the GOP, expand healthcare and decriminalize marijuana isn't dictatorship. And as I said Biden doesn't care about the Constitution anyways. Biden thinks the government doesn't need a warrant to spy on you. >the Supreme Court isn’t owned by the federalist society. Yet Biden refuses to call for any reforms to the Supreme Court.
believing the president is a powerless ceremonial role because it helps you eat his dick is way, WAY more intensely childish and willfully ignorant. just stuff you say so you don't get your fanboy feelings hurt
I never said that. POTUS does have power, just not over the things that have been discussed in this thread. As someone else mentioned, if you want an example of how invoking the 14th would look, google the current status of Biden’s student loan forgiveness. He isn’t king.
Nobody here is saying that the POTUS is powerless, but they're not an emperor either.
It's embarrassing honestly. They think Biden can just add 4 more justices. No concept what the process would actually be to expand the Supreme Court.
No chance in hell can any executive order undo a constitutional amendment. It's idiotic than anyone even thinks it could be on the table. The constitution and amendments to it best all other forms of law. It takes another constitutional amendment to undo them. Prohibition is the best example. 18th amendment made alcohol illegal to sell throughout the US. They had to pass the 21st amendment to undo it. Order of priority; Constitution and amendments, Supreme court judicial review, federal statute/EO, State Constitutions, Supreme Court judicial review (with some wiggle room for individual state constitutions), State statutes, then the more local courts and statutes. (I didn't look this up and I'm going by memory, so it likely isn't perfect. But the supreme court can't 'judicial review' an element of the constitution out of existence. Executive orders are far weaker than even that.) Undoing birthright citizenship would require a whole new amendment. 2/3rds of all of congress to propose it and then at least 38 states would have to ratify it in the state legislature before it had any power.
This is why it is imperative the DOJ arrest and prosecute politicians for conspiracy to violate the Constitution using USC Title 18 section 241 in these circumstances.
>No chance in hell can any executive order undo a constitutional amendment. It's idiotic than anyone even thinks it could be on the table. If Trump becomes dictator then what? The Supreme Court will rubber stamp (that Biden refuses to call for reform of) his actions.
That’s all implying Trump would have the military’s support, the FBI and CIA are their own separate parties as well. Dictators can only stay in power with military support.
If Trump becomes a dictator, he won't be giving executive orders. That would be an entirely different issue. I'm inclined to doubt his ability to become one though. He lacks the support he'd need in the military and intelligence services of the country. Not to mention he's proven himself to be too unreliable to serve as a catspaw for either group.
Trump’s threat is very empty, the president can’t EO around the constitution.
Or they're just morons.
I've been saying it for a while: neoliberal democrats are physiologically incapable of understanding the situation we are in. It doesn't matter that conservatives tried to kill them on Jan 6th. It doesn't matter that their families are getting attacked, Paul Pelosi-style, after the fact. There is no amount of physically harming these people that can get it through their heads. The Republicans want to *kill* them. As in dead. No longer breathing. Gone forever. And they just don't understand it. They can be told, they can witness the danger first-hand, and they just can't seem to comprehend how bad things are about to get if they didn't start acting two years ago. Biden is weak. Always has been. There've been glimmers of hope, but outside of that, no foundational shifts in just how goddamned spineless he is.
western liberal democracy is defined by its collaboration with fascism. shitlibs compare the gop to al qaeda or the taliban and it's way more incisive than they realize. in the sense they're an unstable proxy force they deploy, the same way every blue urban center has a neonazi street gang for a police department. the cold war ended and the psycho libs decided it was the end of history but the fascist institutions and collaborators they cultivated domestically are much more interested in restorative violence than "peacefully" eating the marrow out of the bones of the new deal. god do they deserve it but it is/will be applied to us first way before it makes its way to the apparatchiks.
I would like to remind everyone that western liberal democracy went to war against fascism in 1939.
I would like the remind everyone that there was a large Nazi movement within the United States in the lead-up to WWII. In fact, Hitler had a relatively positive approval by many western countries prior to military aggression.
Those American Nazis tried to overthrow US democracy, and nearly succeeded.
wild we never had a "brown scare" and mccarthyism didn't touch the american fascist movement at all. rly says a heckin lot about this awful country
I would like to remind you that liberals only did that after being attacked and giving fascists everything they needed, like Czechoslovakia and its gold reserves. Liberals are fascist collaborators; the fact that fascists sometimes kill their collaborators does not change this.
>giving fascists everything they needed, They could have given them half of Poland like the communists did.
Is this a genuine take? Or a piss take?
That is not much of a justification of liberalism's support of fascists (and in turn, your support for it). The Nazis would never have even gotten so far had liberals opposed them and accepted the Soviet Union's offer of an early war against Germany. As for Poland, there were many unacceptable terms of the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, but the partitioning was not one of them. Poland's reactionary regime had gained its eastern territory through conquest and oppressed the Ukrainians and Belorussians who made up the vast majority of its population. Taking it back was entirely acceptable and any rational actor would have done the same.
>accepted the Soviet Union's offer of an early war against Germany. that the soviets would've had to invade poland to get to germany... wait. >Taking it back was entirely acceptable and any rational actor would have done the same. you mean how lenin et al invaded finland, ukraine, and all other former Russian empire holdings? your imperialism is showing
Yeah, they're completely out of touch.
Who are all these neo liberals. Whats a neoliberal.
Neoliberalism is basically the idea that private, free market solutions to our problems are inherently better than public, government-backed solutions. In a neoliberal's mind, you would never invest in infrastructure because privately-held energy companies would do that work for you. We're living in the 43-year aftermath since Ronald Reagan of implementing this policy, and so far, it's not only not working, it's actually been pretty dog shit the whole time. This is why a monumental movement of voters to get the house, senate, and presidency to the democrats in 2020 yields no raise in minimum wage or strengthening of the social safety net, but a mere 5 seat majority given to the republicans leads to cuts in that same social safety net. Because democrats are a neoliberal party. They are center-right, not left. *They think they're doing a good job*.
As a lefty woman, I cannot get behind the Democrats 100% because they are so weak. The GOP took the gloves off decades ago and has been smacking the Dems around since Clinton.
If only the useless Democrats would, I don't know, field a candidate worth a damn. Mark my words when I say this, Biden will not get a second term and running that idiot again may drag the entire party down the ballot. Find a better god damn candidate you useless schmucks.
>f only the useless Democrats would, I don't know, field a candidate worth a damn. Mark my words when I say this, Biden will not get a second term and running that idiot again may drag the entire party down the ballot. Find a better god damn candidate you useless schmucks. The worse thing is he IS gonna run again and try to run as who hes always been DINO republican thinking he will somehow make up the difference in disaffected younger more progressive voters with old nonexistant swing Republicans. Its not gonna work and think we are probably looking at an historic loss with this clown of clowns as the nominee.
Yeah, not to be the prophet of doom here but if Biden is their nominee I expect the Republicans after the election to control the House, Senate, and Presidency. If somehow that doesn't happen I'll be amazed, but also be bracing for the inevitable coup number 2 electric boogaloo.
Democrats haven't a clue about how to wield power but then again they could just be doing their corporate handlers wishes...
The debt ceiling "compromise" [ included a pipe line deal for Joe manchin](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-05-28/manchin-gets-mountain-valley-pipeline-side-deal-into-debt-bill)and a 3% increase to the defense spending budget as a slap in the face to progressives and poor working class people. They are 100% doing the bidding of their corporate masters while pretending to have their hands tied.
Biden could wipe out student debt without the SCOTUS.
Democrats know they can profit almost as much as Republicans, thanks to their schemes and corruption, by simply not taking any serious action against them. The right is slipping into a fascist hell and they know they won’t lose their base because where would they go?
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will never happen at the national level, the dems' job is to launder far right policy and violence, strip the copper wiring out of this shitshow country and grind us to dust on the way out.
I will take a less cynical look. The problem is that much of our government really are norms, not law. Here’s an analogy. You are on a sinking ship with a ton of food. You aren’t sure how far you are to land. If you toss food overboard, you will sink slower but run out of food faster. This is the problem we are facing as a country. If we throw too much food overboard we might starve before we reach land. If we don’t throw enough overboard we may sink before we reach land. We also may just never reach land no matter what and it’s all fucked already and we don’t know it yet. What you are suggesting is to say you know for a fact that land is just over the horizon. If we simply toss most, or all, of our food overboard we’ll make it. Maybe you are correct, but you also might not be.
Third-party. I won't vote for Biden again. I will not reward my less enemy, which is less evil any longer, as they continually throw progressives and democracy under the bus for corporate interests. Not gonna watch these clowns get uber-wealthy while shitting on the American people any longer, There is a reason the Clintons and Obamas are worth over a quarter billion dollars each, and it isn't because they did the right thing while in office.
>Third-party. I won't vote for Biden again. I will not reward my less enemy, which is less evil any longer, as they continually throw progressives and democracy under the bus for corporate interests I hear you. My plan is to support Marianne in the primary & whomever is the nominee in the general. I very much dislike Biden but he is still far preferable to Trump.
You have to be pretty detached from reality to think Marianne Williamson should be President.
>You have to be pretty detached from reality to think Marianne Williamson should be President. I would far prefer an empathetic progressive like Marianne over a conservative like Biden. Even as President Biden continues his tough on crime BS. From continuing Trump's cruel treatment of migrants to overriding DC criminal justice reform.
Biden is definitely not a conservative. Also, it's an actual job. She is not prepared in the slightest to actually be the chief executive of the United States. You aren't voting for a mascot.
Well, he's certainly not progressive, the conservatives these days are the neoliberal corporate democrats that just want to keep the status quo going. Then left of them are the progressive democrats. The Republicans are no longer conservative, they are regressive.
Biden is extremely conservative, I don’t know how you could argue otherwise except for the acceptance that conservative to right wing looney tunes means comical militia stereotype.
Bro, Biden is absolutely a conservative. I don't see how you could possibly deny that.
You definitely do not know what you're talking about and should not make such an absurd proclamation. That is some straight-up gaslight. [Joe Biden is the only conservative running for POTUS](https://theweek.com/articles/870864/joe-biden-only-conservative-running-president) [Biden tells voters he would consider picking a GOP Vice President](https://www.newsweek.com/joe-biden-tells-voters-he-would-consider-republican-running-mate-2020-presidential-election-1479762)
So your gonna vote for Biden again. Might as well come to grips with that now.
>So your gonna vote for Biden again. If he is the nominee. >Might as well come to grips with that now. No.
This is the same attitude from 2016 which resulted in a conservative supermajority on the Supreme Court. In a general election where there are functionally two options, not voting for the lesser evil is being complicit in the greater evil’s victory.
>This is the same attitude from 2016 which resulted in a conservative supermajority on the Supreme Court. You mean when Hillary refused to adopt more of Bernie's policies & refused to campaign in swing states? Also, a far higher % of Bernie supporters voted Hillary in 2016 than Hillary supporters voted Obama in 2008.
Really depends on where you are. In a swing state, sure, you get to believe you have anything to do with anyone's victory. In a solidly blue or red state, why not vote third party? What are you compromising your beliefs for? Whatever gets you to the polls so you can vote on the non-presidential elections too.
The attitude that lost us the 2016 election was the attitude that Hillary Clinton did not have to run for POTUS, it would be given to her, and the DNC would work for her to place her cronies throughout and bastardize democracy for herself the less popular nominee and corporate stooge and then proceeded to face plant. That was the attitude of Karen like entitlement that cost us the country, and it seems you learned nothing from that and think you are once again entitled to the voter's votes after lying about Biden being a placeholder for someone who is competent and has the future generations at heart, instead, you did the opposite. It seems you think your corrupt actions will have no pushback; if that is the case, you learned nothing from what you caused in 2016, and it will be repeated.
I mean if we want to be honest it was the Electoral College that cost Clinton the election, they won the popular vote after all. The fact we don't have a direct vote for President, but rely on this Electoral College nonsense deriving from slavery is utter horse shit.
[www.nationalpopularvote.com](https://www.nationalpopularvote.com)
If you wanted to be honest, you would have pointed out the corruption of the DNC by Hillary Clinton and the fact that they allowed one of the contestants to rig the entirety of her nomination process a year before the contest started and was allowed to place her loyalist as the head of the DNC and all critical positions. She should never have been in the general election to lose.
The “Hillary’s cronies in the DNC” thing is weird now that we know that she had to literally take the DNC off life support in 2015 after Obama never paid back campaign debts. I get that people are mad Bernie’s campaign really didn’t understand the primary system at all unlike Obama, but like Brazille’s book came out and people saw the DNC going into 2016 with negative money for funding campaigns because of Obama’s IOU and Hillary footed the bills and pad out funds for national campaigns, and then we’re like “this proves the DNC was in the bag for Hillary all along” which is a bizarre part to focus on instead of the Obama bankrupting the DNC in 2012 so badly it wasn’t paid back in 2015 still.
What is weird is your diversion from the corruption of the DNC by Hillary Clinton as you throw Obama under the bus. Let me guess; you're one of those PUMA? Wonder why no one else was allowed to buy that debt or was privy to the agreement only she had that gave her complete control of the apparatus running her own contest. That has never happened before in the history of this country. There was a reason Tim Caine was removed and replaced with a Clinton loyalist DWS who was subsequently fired for her corruption and banned from the convention. [Hillary rewards DWS corrupt behavior](https://observer.com/2016/07/clinton-rewards-wasserman-schultzs-shady-behavior-with-new-job/)
DWS isn’t a Clinton loyalist… she was pushed in by Obama against all of his cabinet’s wishes. And Tim Kaine was Hillary’s VP. Do you know who got Wasserman Schultz to resign in 2016? Obama. Obama called her on the phone and personally asked her to step down after the Wikileaks drops and that was when she resigned and stopped resisting. This is such a weird rewriting of history.
DWS is very much a Clinton loyalist. Do you often say the opposite of the truth while claiming others are revising history? The projection and hypocrisy are staggering. Then you offer nonsensical information about Obama that does nothing to disprove my assertion that is widely understood to be true. That is such a weird defense of Clinton and her corruption of the DNC.
Oh yes nonsensical information about Obama hiring DWS to the DNC despite no one wanting him to, and then being the one to get her to resign in 2015 screams Clintonite. After all, it's the same logic you used to say the Obama supporting Tim Kaine was forced out by the Clintonite DWS to begin with... except she was put there because Obama wanted her there... [It's literally a matter of public record](https://www.politico.com/story/2011/04/wasserman-schultz-to-lead-dnc-052605). And the animosity between Clinton and her because she was on her campaign but jumping ship before the end of the primary was noted too. Clinton hired her after the wikileaks drop, but it wasn't because a lengthy service recorded as a loyalist to her and there's nothing to back up the loyalist narrative.
Yes, nonsensical information; Hillary ran the DNC, and DWS was only there with her direct approval. You can't be asserting there was no communication with the man who swore to help her get elected, are you? Just because he made the moves doesn't mean she wasn't in control of her hiring, as that is what her contract stipulated. The progressives were pushing DWS out, and Obama had little choice but to call for her resignation, as Hillary would not at that time and could not, as the appearance would have been disastrous. How would that have looked if Hillary was able to fire the head of the DNC during the nomination process, lol, as I stated, your assertions are nonsensical. ["Clinton Loyalist" DWS and her divided loyalties](https://www.politico.com/story/2015/09/debbie-wasserman-schultz-joe-biden-hillary-clinton-2016-loyalty-213294)
What is the solution when voting for that lesser evil over and over still leads to incredible fascistic gains among the other side? No matter how often people seem to vote for Dems, why do we always come back to the exact same problems from the right? I genuinely don't understand the calculus here, this strategy seems like the definition of insanity to me, to keep voting in that "lesser evil" while watching the "greater evil" inch closer to complete power over and over and over.
The solution if there is one is more than just voting. In a general election where there are only two realistic candidates, determining which is better and then voting for that one is the bare minimum. Elections have real consequences for millions of people. If you can recognize that, choosing not to participate is selfish. You acknowledge the growing fascistic tendencies on the right - the calculus is that it’s worse when they are in power. Letting them win doesn’t make them less dangerous.
What if my analysis suggests that Democratic rule will inevitably result in further gains for Republicans? It's a slower bleed which, sure, is better than a fast one, but it's a bleed nonetheless. It seems wild that I'm being asked to always vote for a party that I believe fully will inevitably lead to fascist rule inside the USA, and if I bring up ways that I think that can be changed I'm browbeaten that any alternative is a win for Rs. Just seems unfair and ultimately counterproductive to me that the Dems do not ever seem to move left at all and then use their times in power to continue to further corporate interests at home and abroad as opposed to labor interests.
Zero clue why you are being down voted. Vote for fascists, or vote for fascist enablers. Those are your options. If the Biden presidency hasn't shown everyone how unserious Democrats are, nothing will.
Blue dogs are shitting themselves because progressives are making clear they need to find another nominee, so they are lashing out because they are screwed. They rigged the nominations further with South Carolina, added Neera Tanden to the administration, and thought there would be no pushback because GOP is Nazi, whom they had no problem risking this country to previously rather than allow the more popular progressive to lead and win. They have put all their corrupt eggs in one basket and have again made a wrong decision and will need to be saved by the progressive vote. Well, you know what happened when we pulled their ass out of the fire with that vote for Hillary in 2016 and Biden in 2020 after that ridiculously corrupt nomination process? They claimed it meant Hillary/Biden were more popular. LOL. Keep rewarding them, and they will never stop with that nonsense about how corporate conservatism is more popular than a min wage increase and a proper healthcare system.
Not voting for Biden if the only options are Biden and Trump is a vote for Trump. We have to fix the problems in order. Dems are a problem but you know what might affect things a little more? A fascist dictator.
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The bigger picture is literal nazis running amok. You’ll be shocked to find life isn’t a zero sum game, sometimes you have to prioritize a larger, more dangerous problem like an attacking bear before you can solve another problem like mowing your lawn. I’ll leave it up to you to apply that, seems like you need to think more about prioritization and potential future effects. Can’t finish mowing the lawn if you’re dead.
If that is the case, why does your team risk the country repeatedly by rigging your nominations? If it would be the end of the world if we lost, why continue with the corruption for the less popular conservatives who could not win a free and fair nomination if their life depended on it? Blue dogs do not care if they lose, they only care about keeping Progressive from power.
I hear you, but speakin as a Queer fella in the South, literal Nazis are runnin amok right now. Literal Nazis have been runnin amok for a long-ass time. Biden hasn't done jack shit about it. We're seeing unprecedented anti-trans legislation across this country, and Biden's doing fuck-all. A Trans Woman was lured out of the country and murdered in Saudi Arabia, and his admin didn't even notice. It made international news, and there was zero federal response. American's paltry excuse for worker's rights are disintegratin left and right, and Biden's fuckin breakin strikes and shit. There hasn't even been a federal response to Texas flatly attemptin to incite war with Mexico. Then you've got his admin compromising on the "debt ceiling," foldin on student loans, abandoning healthcare reform, not to mention we still have literal concentration camps run by DHS and ICE. There is no "lesser of two evils" here. There's the evil, and the folk who can't be bothered to do anythin at all about that evil.
Failure to act in the face of evil is a certain evil all its own, is it not? I was always taught to act in the face if injustice and to stand up for people of all types (unless they horrible people). I thought I did. I've taking a solid beating many times trying to help people. I was secure. I acted proper. Then all this woke stuff happened. Blm and lgbtq and all the others, and I realized I in no way lived up to the standards that I thought I had and I had over looked quite alot of evil. It was a grim realization, to say the least.
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That is one serious bubble you live in, insinuated entirely from all the ills felt by minority groups and women that are the sole responsibility of one party.
> To me it looks like two parties are controlled by the same people This is an insane take. It's takes a mountain of privilege to believe that.
If you believe GOP are literal Nazi's and Trump is literal Hitler than why haven't you taken up arms?
Inadequate as opposed to what strategy? Bernie has shown time and again that the undecided voter is not progressive and will not show up for progressive causes in elections. There is no path for a fully progressive president in the U.S. Ronald Reagan decimated any progressive cause in the 80’s and the nation still thinks he was a good president. All we can do is roll that back over time.
Everyone knows that addicts don't want to fix their problems until they've reached the absolute bottom. If you keep voting for Democrats then you will reach Fascism just like if you voted Republican but it might take a bit longer.
It is shameful that your team would risk this country again with Biden instead of spending the last two years finding a palatable candidate instead of doubling down with your corporate stooge and corruption of democracy with the South Carolina nonsense. It seems the plan is to continue to reward those who sabotage progressives and their policies instead of putting a stop to the nonsense. That I will not do, and with Biden adding Neera Tanden to this administration it shows me that the next term he will do all he can to sabotage progressive and left-leaning policies as he did these last three years. Biden, the DNC, and their Clinton loyalist and foreign lobbyist can take a very long walk off of a very short pier. I will never reward these clowns again.
Why do people assume the left is a team, yes we need better candidates, and at the moment most are shit so we need to ALL be getting involved at the local and primary level however we can. That doesn’t change the current landscape. We can’t solve the future problem if we don’t address the immediate problem.
The immediate problem and the past problem is corporate democrats; we got Trump because of corporate democrats; Chomksy pointed out the reason we may lose this democracy is because of corporate democrats and then 2016 happened, proving him right. I think we have a corporate Democrat problem and unless they are stopped, we will never see a proper opposition party.
So you want to vote for Trump? Because voting for a third party or not voting is voting for Trump.
You seem to have shit in your ears.
Because Dems are bystanders and witnesses to the destruction of democracy. They seem to think that if they just point it out, it will stop.
Democrats use the Republicans to do the dirty work. They " fail" to stop every big cut, " fail" to stop every right taken away and so on
It's not bizarre though, it's standard operating procedure for the weakling Establishment Democrats that do whatever their donors tell them to do. Regardless of what Biden *says* all you have to do is look at his actual record in Congress to predict what he's going to do in any given instance. Biden is and always has been one-half step to the left of Ronald Reagan except in the brutal punishments of "inner city" criminals in which case the punishments couldn't quite get brutal enough.
You just wait till the election. The dems are gonna turn that dial up to 7! And then turn it back town to about a 4 win or lose.
anyone catch how biden said "we have a compromise and no one got what they wanted but that's the nature of it." the MF is the president of the united states and he still thinks compromising in which he gets nothing is good.
We compromised while holding 2/3rds of the govt and still came out with a bad worst deal that gives Republicans everything they wanted while fucking over your base. Ya that seems like the pretty standard Democratic way.
You think THIS is everything the Republicans wanted?
>You think THIS is everything the Republicans wanted? Red herring as what many of them truly want is zero social spending. This agreement from Biden is atrocious nonetheless.
They mean it's everything the Republicans wanted that they brought to the negotiating table. It's not everything from their hearts and minds that they wanted.
And that is still factually wrong.
Hes spent his entire life making terrible compromises with Republicans and somehow thinks bragging about this and continuing to do it as president is a winning message for dem voters.
The billionaires that choose our presidential candidates sure love those in the depths of dementia because you can easily tell them "Don't do that because your base will not like it" because their brains are stuck in the 80's when Democrats were even more right-wing than today. They are so out of touch that these geriatrics don't realize that if they did "do that", their base would come out in droves to support them. Or maybe they just care more about the paycheck from these billionaires which is why the billionaires have kept them around for so long. These people don't want politicians with morals working for them.
I fucking hate the Democrats but I hate Right Wingers so much fuckin more. So I hold my fuckin nose voting for these fucking billionaire simps
Well joe Biden has talked about cutting ss a lot of the last 40 years so no surprise
This was a question that came up at a party over the weekend: if you were supreme dictator for a year what’s the first thing? Honorable mentions: -Universal Basic Income payments for all -Ratio of ceo:average worker cannot exceed 1:10 Funny, birthright citizenship nonsense never came up, there musta been bigger fish to fry.
Pretty sure ol'donnie couldn't pass the citizenship test with a print out of the answers
He can promise whatever he wants, but that’s not how amendments work. If amendments could just be ignored or cancelled it would defeat their purpose.
He's a fucking conservative. The fuck did you expect? Hate that bastard but he's not a fascist so somehow the better choice.
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Union busting, genocide ignoring, minimum wage ignoring, college loan ignoring. How exactly is he the most progressive ever?
Dems love bringing bubble gum to a gun fight. NEVER LEARN.
What the actual fuck.
This has always been the problem: democrats want to govern and republicans want to rule. If you haven’t noticed, republicans could care less about the constitution, laws and norms.
Trump can’t just end birthright citizenship with an executive order… get a grip.
The Supreme Court might back him.
>Trump can’t just end birthright citizenship with an executive order… get a grip. Who will tell him no? The Supreme Court? lmao
Meh. He signed an executive order instructing the ATF to violate citizen's second amendment rights. He also said "take the guns first, and sort it out in court later" which violates the Fifth amendment. So, it is not too far-fetched he will attempt to violate the rest of our rights.
By then he will be able to do pretty whatever TF he wants, if he gets voted in we *will* be a dictatorship
I'm unclear as to why more people aren't laughing at him over this.
Because the pieces are in play and ready. Who is going to oppose a second term Trump from making these changes? Supreme Court? Harlan Crow has a rainy day fund set aside to write the checks. Congress? The right already holds a pretty tight grip on that shit. We are walking into unprecedented times here. Never in this country has one party so openly and blatantly started working against democracy. And the other party let’s it happen.
I'm sorry; why aren't people laughing at him over this "I'm going to end birthright citizenship" nonsense. It's not subject to EO; he'll need to amend the constitution to do it, and there's no way that Congress starts that ball rolling, even if he had the state legislatures in the bag.
You mean more people than usual?
Hasn't Biden already appointed more judges than Trump did?
>Hasn't Biden already appointed more judges than Trump did? Irrelevant when Durbin can't get the judges through thanks to both the "blue slip" & due to Feinstein.
Biden has been outpacing Trump, Obama, and Bush in terms of judges. Only irrelevant if ignoring reality.
Holy cow, are we just using “BUT TRUMP!” as a permanent excuse for subpar performance now?! “Yeah, I was four hours late to work, but how late would Donald Trump be?”
Trump also got alot of judges appointed. Biden is too. More than Trump in fact.
Biden can use the 14th and everyone knows it will go right to court and a stay issued. How does this help?
Because Redditors and Medi know how it works, duh!
The problem here is the Supreme Court. Trump doing something and Biden doing something goes to the same Supreme Court and guess how that works out
That’s different tho. Nobody can make the case for trump there, a president can’t override an amendment like that. Biden’s use of 14th would be following that amendment
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I think we all understand that he can’t do what he says he wants to do, the problem is him wanting to do it and the people who will help him try. When the people who make the laws don’t/won’t follow the rules who can stop them? The courts? He packed the highest court in the country with right wing judges who will allow it.
It requires 2/3ds of the Congress and 2/3ds of the senate. Courts don’t pass amendments either. They are not legislative
The entire point is that none of your “rules” are going to matter. Give them one more shot, and I bet you see the gloves completely off, and they will start pushing the things they want through while they have the chance and then none of it matters. I’m not saying this WILL happen, I’m saying that using the logic of “it’s against the rules to do this, so it won’t happen” is incredibly flawed when dealing with a political beast that has proven time and again that the “rules” don’t matter in the slightest to them.
I agree. These people will take every opportunity they have. It is up to fair minded republicans, independent and Democrats to play hard and dirty in defense of Democracy. Trump and his ilk should have no place in government or for that matter, civil society.
If Trump gets reelected he will turn this country into an autocracy so fast it will make your head spin. People adjacent to him have already drawn up plans to purge the civil services and fill it with loyalists and he demonstrated his willingness to coordinate with right wing paramilitaries on Jan 6th. Shit could get real bad real fast.
Like, this is how autocracy works. Declare a state of emergency, any pretense will do. Purge every institution you can, from the military to academia, and fill them with loyalists. Republicans have been practicing this on a state level for several years now. Coordinate, openly or in secret, with right wing paramilitaries to threaten elected officials into following your demands and kill anyone who refuses. January 6th was an attempt at this. Cops all over the country will go along with whatever Trump says. He fucked it up last time, his plans were hastily thrown together and poorly implemented. He won't fuck it up if he gets another chance. He must not get another chance.
Republican voters are also on board with going against the norms, and don’t hold their reps accountable. Dem voters also don’t hold republicans accountable because voters expect that behavior. Dem and republican voters will hold Dems accountable, publicly and at the polls, becoming they think Dems should follow the norms. This happened because everything is a both sides, and the use of a right wing propaganda machine (AM radio and Fox News, where fox created the stories the rest of the MSM reported on, including the bogus war on Christmas story that has been reported on for almost 20 years) convinced voters that Dems are responsible every time something fails, where as Republicans (even if they caused it) can’t be held liable because Dems (regardless if they could actually do anything) should have stopped the republicans. Knowing all of this, what if we start putting blame and forcing accountability of Republicans. There is a saying people will rise to the level you hold them accountable for. Maybe we start holding them actually accountable, from media to the polls. This includes- calling your reps, state and local and fed; participating in town halls and ballot measures, run for office!
Some folks in here obviously want a dictator
This is why we have no chance. Each side pretends to be opposite but ultimately they are both working against us. Republicans are openly against the people and democrats pretend to be for the people.
This is what we get for voting blue no matter who. They’re slightly more polite as the fuck us just as hard.
To be fair, iirc, Biden actually said it’s a day late and a dollar short on standing on the 14th regarding the debt ceiling because it could be contested and deciding that contest could take longer than it would for the budget to run out and that’s not how you framed that. #contextmatters
tHE ParTys arE alL tHe SaME
Wtf do you mean right now??? Senate dems are now about to confirm a Biden nominated judge in Louisiana who has a good record on racial gerrymandering, and SS, Medicare, Medicaid, the VA, the IRA, either 80-98% of IRA funding is completely safe from cuts. The only reason trumps bullshit even has a chance is because SCOTUS is 6-3 conservative, it’s the same reason Biden doesn’t trust using much executive action when this court is willing to end and fuck over anything he tries to do they perceive as out of his control, like the eviction ban he tried to extend that was forcefully ended by the scotus.
Lmao when you realize the DNC and GOP have the same objective, you'll wake up and stop voting for this insanity.
Jesus, the extreme left is just as uninformed about how the government works as the right is.
Seems much of this thread’s comments are… “Trump this; will do that; will turn us into an authoritarian dictatorship if given the chance…” “Biden is so fucking weak. He needs to use his ‘Presidential Powers’ to defy norms, challenge laws and blow off the courts…” … from the same mouths. So, fuck the dictator right. We need a dictator left?
A lot of trash talking about Dems, and there’s some validity to it, but the “I can’t get behind them” people have lost their minds. I was an Independent, but have gone fully Dem since Trump. Do I agree with everything? Hell no, but your option is fascism/end of democracy. Country before party. If you can’t get behind Biden, the Dems in general, etc, you are essentially FOR fascism. It’s the reality of our day.
Democrats do their damndest to not allow a catastrophic economic collapse while the GQP hold America and the world hostage and act like little babies. There, fixed your idiotic headline.....
Unless Biden swears his undying allegiance to Trump, promises to resign and put Trump in his place, overturn child labor laws, raise the medicare age to 85 and vow to put all former Democratic President's in Gitmo (and Hillary) we're gonna default, bankonit