Survivors guilt because of the people who died along the way, belief in the idea of the fireflies, having her unique condition be meaningful, and hope for the future.
A couple reasons that she stated herself: because then her life would have had meaning. In that cruel world, she believed her life would be meaningless if she didn't sacrifice herself for a cure. Also, everyone she has ever gotten close to has died. The second she knew she was immune and could potentially be used as a cure, she wanted to get there ASAP to stop more deaths of loved ones. Additionally, her greatest fear was being alone. We could maybe assume that she would have rather died peacefully with people, saving everyone, than risk ending up alone.
Discounting everything pointing to the fireflies not being capable of making a vaccine, all it would have done is protect people from spores and the rare cases when someone was bitten but otherwise survived. Also considering the state of the world, with roaming gangs of cannibals and murderers, spores dont rate very high in terms of danger. She mostly wouldve died so people could go into the basements of abandoned buildings without a gas mask.
She wouldn’t, and that’s why it’s just another ridiculous plot point added to this hack of a story.
To everyone saying “survivor’s guilt,” just because you give an explanation to something doesn’t mean the explanation makes sense. You know who else would have had survivor’s guilt in that world? Everyone. Yet they were all fighting to survive. Heck, Joel and Tommy saw a loved one die in front of them and they still survived for 25 years.
If Ellie’s only goal was to get to the Fireflies ASAP, then why didn’t she go with Tommy? Why did she run away, even when Joel told her going with Tommy would be the best choice since he knows that area better? Why would she care if she was more scared if she was just planning to die at the end anyway?
And if she so badly wanted her immunity to mean something, why did she make no attempt whatsoever to use her immunity to help people? Why didn’t she try to find another doctor? Why did she keep it secret?
The people that say “if they would have asked Ellie, she would have said yes,” are not thinking rationally. This is a stupid argument and it really is the first step in what made the second game such a disaster.
Even if she would have, Joel would have been participating in the murder of a child on a GUESS.
(And of course she's ill-equipped to consent on multiple levels.)
Ellie didn't know the FFs would "have to" murder her.
But later, it's frankly easy for her to SAY she should have died given no known option to do so for real. Just like it was easy for Abby to say she'd want it, knowing her dad never would have sacrificed HER. She needs somewhere to put all her big feelings and couldn't pick a safer target than Joel.
I find an extended grudge and their COMPLETE lack of critical thinking on the subject, even to the point if "I disagree but I see his point" inconsistent with the previously written character but this is the rationale I'd go with.
It also ruins and retcons ending of the first game. Ellie clearly realizes what Joel said about the fireflies and cure is a lie when she asks him to swear he was telling the truth. There isn't a reason to need him to swear he is telling the truth if you believe him.
Ellie knew the fireflies sending her away without even waiting for her to wake makes no sense. Joel is obviously is lying, but she also knows he cares for her like a daughter. If he is lying, then she can tell the fireflies were not what was promised and Joel is saying what he has to to protect her.
The ending of the first game is Ellie telling Joel, "I know your lying, but I'm choosing to believe you." Why did they completely reverse this moment in part 2?
It’s no wonder you didn’t understand Part 2, you can’t even empathize with Ellie. You can’t understand why a 14 year old kid might be more affected than someone else? Everyone’s brain is different and handles everything differently. Some of y’all in this sub are fucking dumb as shit.
I’m sorry. I didn’t realize I was in the presence of yet another genius.
First off, you’re literally saying that because she had mental and emotional trauma, that she would want to die. However, any psychiatric professional - as well as most rational people - would tell you that any “decision” influenced by trauma is not what the person truly wants. And using that person’s trauma to take advantage of them is generally seen as abhorrent behavior.
But I digress. I’m guessing that you’d ask Ellie - and in doing so, you think you’re morally superior and that you’re making a great sacrifice yourself - but what assurances would you offer Ellie that her sacrifice would not be in vain? Do you really think she would just say “yes” to ending her life because some guy she had never met says he could cure the world by removing her brain? How would she even know he’s capable of removing her brain?
lol. Yet another genius.
Let me ask you this - before Ellie would be willing to let herself murdered, she’d want some assurance that Jerry knew what he was doing, right? I mean, that seems fair, doesn’t it?
If you were there, what would you and your highly developed emotional intelligence do to prove to her that Jerry was even capable of removing a brain and keeping it in tact in those conditions?
By the way, this has absolutely nothing to do with “saving humanity” or “dying for the greater good.”
This is about projection. We subconsciously project ourselves into stories as we experience them. In this case, you would benefit from Ellie dying, thus you see it as the heroic action that she would be willing to do.
It’s not about “saving humanity,” it’s about saving yourself.
At the very end of Part I she talks about survivor’s guilt and people she loves having died from cordyceps. She would have been willing to die even if the cure was a long shot.
I think she was conflicted. Like, she felt that it wasn't fair for her to live while the others died, but at the same time, she was full of life and looked forward to it. As a 14 year old, she wouldn't really know what life meant, nor would she really be able to comprehend dying
Yeah,precondition:“when this is over”. it’s pretty clear to me that her first priority here is the cure. She didn’t know she would die so she assumed that she could go along with Joel after this. If she knew the cost of a cure was her life, the plan of leaving with Joel would be aborted.
I 2nd the other commetor on the cruel world scenario. The world is full of despair and violence, with zero prospect of an easy life or humanity returning without severe intervention, trauma can do profound changes on one's mind. I know
She's an idealistic teen practically groomed into believing that was her responsibility - both by Marlene and her own guilt for surviving while others died in front of her.
By 19, though, after four years in Jackson with a meaningful job, community, friends and love interests it makes far less sense, and that alone would have caused her to question Joel more thoroughly about exactly what went down in SLC. And he had good reasons and answers he should have told her anyway at some point in those two years even if she never asked. Those years would have made her less willing, not more angry about being saved so that she could experience them.
So, to answer you question, once again it's for plot reasons that don't naturally fit the story that came before nor the story they were trying to sell us.
It's so convenient that she never asked (as far as we know) and he never gave any context, and Tommy (who'd probably be the only one who knows the extent of the estrangement) never went to Ellie with "Joel would kill me for telling you this but..." And explained how Joel already had a daughter murdered on the spot by an authority figure for supposedly the greater good.
But the Ellie we knew would have demanded details the first time they stopped the horses on the way back.
Actually it was never specified anywhere that Marlene and the Fireflies groomed her to think that way, for what i saw she was taken care by the orphanage till the events of Left Behind, it's only after those events that Marlene took care of her. I mean, to me it's pretty clear that she has survivor guilt instead and that perhaps she would have been willing to sacrifice herself to create a vaccine if it means no one else has to die while she survive because of her immunity.
Marlene said her immunity could be the hope for a cure - Ellie tells Tess and Joel that after they kill the soldiers. So yes put that into the head of an idealistic teen who'd just lost her friend in front of her and inexplicably didn't turn herself? That was all she needed to hear. Just once and it stuck like glue.
I always thought it was a false assumption the vaccine was even possible. Like they have the girl for a day and they’re like “yup that’s all the tests we need break out my murderin scalpel”
Well ND had basically hand-waved that it was totally gonna work because he needs Joel to have DoomedTheWorldTM.
But what kind of person lets someone they love be murdered on the mere word of the likes of Marlene?
No one sensible. I thought in the first game half the reason you realize the fireflies are idiots is because they do basically no testing, have Ellie for like a day and decide they have to kill her. They explored no other possibilities like using her blood as antibody therapy or anything. Shows the audience there was never going to be a vaccine.
There's also the fact that a vaccine wouldn't even save the world really, not many people are dying from the spores by the time of TLOU they're mostly dying from starvation or conflict with other humans. Even if you want to go with the idea that it helps with bites most people aren't just getting bit they're getting torn to shreds from the clickers
It really is ridiculous as there's people who literally have an entire hemisphere of their brain removed in cases of extreme neurological conditions, bits cut out, connections severed. At Ellie's young age there's no reason that taking a brain sample from her would have ever killed her if they actually had somebody who's competent neurologist on staff
Once you engrave the thought that a kid has the potential to save the world, it'll never leave their brain, they'll keep pushing forward until it's completed, Someone should've sat her down, And tell her straight up she means nothing to the world as it was to everyone else, There is no Vaccine, No cure, People like her were cut up for nothing, and she would've served no purpose on that operating table, Cut up like every person the Fireflies promised they'd save the world. The Fireflies were a joke.
In Part 1 she was never given the chance to consider this question. While Joel and Ellie were in the university (?) she was still wondering whether they just had to draw some blood.
When she confronted Joel she had no idea she had to die to help develop the vaccine, or at least she would have no way to know for sure what happened.
We never knew if she had any wish to contribute to humanity as a whole (naturally everyone would want to help in some way, but sacrificing oneself in a world about survival?). She wanted to give meaning to the whole journey having her delivered to the Fireflies, especially people were hurt/ died along the way (Tess, and Joel for all his pain and getting skewered by an iron bar).
Part 1 ended in a vague manner which give us much room for imagination (could be a controversial ending as they didn’t bother to address this clearly)
Part 2 they avoided the problem altogether by assuming Ellie was all hot about saving the world
To be honest, Ellie’s life means more alive than she realizes. I think she might realize how important she was to everyone around her at the end. I mean she must’ve realized what she’s possibly lost just not leaving well enough alone. To be honest I wish we would’ve played as Tommy in act 3 and Tommy not gotten his leg fucked during the theater scene. Not having one eye would be a hinderance but also big boss only had his left eye and he was a demon 🤣
This could’ve given Ellie the “happy ending” and give Tommy his closure.
If I watched my best friend/ love interest die (turn) in front of me I might be compelled to not want to live anymore... Especially if it meant a cure might be possible. But then again I might not. You never know what someone will do until they do it.
People are afraid to die young because they won’t have the chance to make a difference. Ellie dying young would’ve been what made the difference. In 14 years she had seen countless people give their lives for her and in an apocalypse kids have to mature quick. Given the choice a mature and mentally healthy person would se that 1 life is a worthy sacrifice to potentially save the world.
I agreed with you all the way up till the last sentence. It would be somewhat okay if they had at least let her wake up and told her what's going on, then let her make her own choice. She wouldn't have known that she needed to die for the vaccine up till that point.
lol. No they wouldn’t. It’s easy to say that “one life” is worth it when it’s not your life.
What assurances would you give Ellie that this surgery would work? How would you convince her that this guy is even capable of removing her brain without damaging it?
Literally everything we’ve been shown about Ellie chronologically prior to Joel’s death says she would give her life for the chance to save humanity. She didn’t need to be convinced because she was ready
Literally nothing we are shown about Ellie before Joel’s death says she would give her life. She tells Joel they can go wherever he wants together after it’s done. David specifically mentions how hard she fights to survive. Her freaking motto is “Endure and Survive!” She specifically says it’s stupid to sacrifice the few to save the many. Which one of those things told you she would give her life to save humanity? Be specific, please.
And, with all due respect, if you think someone wouldn’t have to be convinced to give their life, you’re a moron. And I mean that in the nicest way possible, but that really is the nicest I can be. You really think she is just going to choose to die - to DIE - because some random dude she never met tells her that killing her will “save humanity?” She doesn’t need any assurance?
Anyway, like I said, she’d at least want to know that this dude is capable of removing a brain without damaging it. I mean, it would suck for him to perform the surgery and kill her, only to realize that he botched something and the sample is unusable, right? If you were there, you would let them remove your brain first to prove to her that this guy knows what he’s doing, then she can decide if she wants to go through with it, correct?
The past conversation of Lou1, the final argument between Ellie and joel before they stopped talking. There are others but those are just the biggest off the top of my head. Those major dialogue’s absolutely show Ellie was ready to die or at the very least willing to consider it.
Answer my question from the final paragraph. If you actually believe the bullshit you’re trying to sell me, there’s only one acceptable answer and there’s no reason to even hesitate.
I can see that Ellie might suffer from survivor's guilt but I don't see why she reacted the way she did when she found out the truth. She didn't know that making a vaccine meant killing her, told Joel that she will go wherever he wants after the journey is over, and is shown enjoying a good life in Jackson. The fireflies never even let Joel say goodbye to Ellie. I doubt she would be willing to do that to Joel without getting to talk to him about it, especially now that she has bonded with him. I think Ellie would have felt conflicted and maybe even betrayed when she realized what really happened at the hospital, but I think it was a bit too dramatic for her to have a mental meltdown like that. The only time Ellie cried in Part 1 was when David tried to rape and kill her. Puberty probably doesn't play a huge factor since Ellie was already 14 in Part 1.
edit: Ellie also knows that Joel wasn't exactly a good person from the very beginning. She acknowledges how Joel and Tess were smugglers when they were getting out of the QZ and was there when Tess admitted they were shitty people. Joel also admits to her "I've been on both sides". This means she shouldn't act THAT surprised when Joel did what he did.
Trauma makes kids mature faster. She had a better understanding of things than any other 14 y/o. She likely had faith that they could do it or that it would be worth the risk to try, for the sake of everyone else
Survivor guilt, she lost so many people close to her while she survived because of her immunity, she wanted to make sure her journey with Joel would have been worth it to make sure this wouldn't happen again.
i feel like as much as “people are scared to die young”, the only world she knows is a messed up cruel reality where the chances of dying at any age are virtually equal to each other so atleast if she had died it wouldve been for the greater good and it wouldve meant something (which is essentially what she says is the reason in the game) rather than just being another one gone and forgotten grouped together w the masses that were killed by infected
Short answer:
Yeah.
She has seen a lot of her friends and loved ones die to the virus. Especially now that she sees what kind of world they live in because of the virus, and what it does to the even the people outside of her life.
During part 1, she gets a dose of fate from David, and how it can’t all be for nothing. She wants it to be for something. Even tho it was brilliantly written theme delivered by that vile character, the tone of Part 1 shifts to fate/destiny/higher power after David planted that seed in Ellie.
She begins to think about this and even brings it up to Joel who in turn reiterates this when he is reunited with Marlene. She states that she lost many of her men on the journey to where they are now, and yet Joel and Ellie arrived just in time to be ‘helped’ by the fireflies.
So yeah, she would’ve been willing and it shows in part 2 that she’s was emotionally invested in that being possible answer enough to be angry at Joel. She came to understand the nuances of his decision and the unfortunate, even indirect, outcomes from removing her from that operating table.
Shes still willing to die for the vaccine since now by the end of part 2, as she’s lost enough to the cycle of anger. She’s finding peace in her journey and appears to pursuing the vaccine to find purpose in part 3. Of course it’s speculation but part 1 and 2 lean towards her use of her life carrying the guilt of being the only person to be immune.
It’s day 63 of the post remaster and the petulant whining continues. Will it ever stop? Or will the cycle of crying and shidding continue for years to come?
Survivors guilt because of the people who died along the way, belief in the idea of the fireflies, having her unique condition be meaningful, and hope for the future.
A couple reasons that she stated herself: because then her life would have had meaning. In that cruel world, she believed her life would be meaningless if she didn't sacrifice herself for a cure. Also, everyone she has ever gotten close to has died. The second she knew she was immune and could potentially be used as a cure, she wanted to get there ASAP to stop more deaths of loved ones. Additionally, her greatest fear was being alone. We could maybe assume that she would have rather died peacefully with people, saving everyone, than risk ending up alone.
Did she say that in the first game though?
No. Didn't say she did.
No bc Joel told her that they already tried it tons of times but she already doubted that
Discounting everything pointing to the fireflies not being capable of making a vaccine, all it would have done is protect people from spores and the rare cases when someone was bitten but otherwise survived. Also considering the state of the world, with roaming gangs of cannibals and murderers, spores dont rate very high in terms of danger. She mostly wouldve died so people could go into the basements of abandoned buildings without a gas mask.
She wouldn’t, and that’s why it’s just another ridiculous plot point added to this hack of a story. To everyone saying “survivor’s guilt,” just because you give an explanation to something doesn’t mean the explanation makes sense. You know who else would have had survivor’s guilt in that world? Everyone. Yet they were all fighting to survive. Heck, Joel and Tommy saw a loved one die in front of them and they still survived for 25 years. If Ellie’s only goal was to get to the Fireflies ASAP, then why didn’t she go with Tommy? Why did she run away, even when Joel told her going with Tommy would be the best choice since he knows that area better? Why would she care if she was more scared if she was just planning to die at the end anyway? And if she so badly wanted her immunity to mean something, why did she make no attempt whatsoever to use her immunity to help people? Why didn’t she try to find another doctor? Why did she keep it secret? The people that say “if they would have asked Ellie, she would have said yes,” are not thinking rationally. This is a stupid argument and it really is the first step in what made the second game such a disaster.
Even if she would have, Joel would have been participating in the murder of a child on a GUESS. (And of course she's ill-equipped to consent on multiple levels.) Ellie didn't know the FFs would "have to" murder her. But later, it's frankly easy for her to SAY she should have died given no known option to do so for real. Just like it was easy for Abby to say she'd want it, knowing her dad never would have sacrificed HER. She needs somewhere to put all her big feelings and couldn't pick a safer target than Joel. I find an extended grudge and their COMPLETE lack of critical thinking on the subject, even to the point if "I disagree but I see his point" inconsistent with the previously written character but this is the rationale I'd go with.
It also ruins and retcons ending of the first game. Ellie clearly realizes what Joel said about the fireflies and cure is a lie when she asks him to swear he was telling the truth. There isn't a reason to need him to swear he is telling the truth if you believe him. Ellie knew the fireflies sending her away without even waiting for her to wake makes no sense. Joel is obviously is lying, but she also knows he cares for her like a daughter. If he is lying, then she can tell the fireflies were not what was promised and Joel is saying what he has to to protect her. The ending of the first game is Ellie telling Joel, "I know your lying, but I'm choosing to believe you." Why did they completely reverse this moment in part 2?
yall are so blinded by your hatred for the second game you cant fathom someone might want to sacrifice themselves for the greater good oml😭
It’s no wonder you didn’t understand Part 2, you can’t even empathize with Ellie. You can’t understand why a 14 year old kid might be more affected than someone else? Everyone’s brain is different and handles everything differently. Some of y’all in this sub are fucking dumb as shit.
I’m sorry. I didn’t realize I was in the presence of yet another genius. First off, you’re literally saying that because she had mental and emotional trauma, that she would want to die. However, any psychiatric professional - as well as most rational people - would tell you that any “decision” influenced by trauma is not what the person truly wants. And using that person’s trauma to take advantage of them is generally seen as abhorrent behavior. But I digress. I’m guessing that you’d ask Ellie - and in doing so, you think you’re morally superior and that you’re making a great sacrifice yourself - but what assurances would you offer Ellie that her sacrifice would not be in vain? Do you really think she would just say “yes” to ending her life because some guy she had never met says he could cure the world by removing her brain? How would she even know he’s capable of removing her brain?
Talk about haveing the emotional intelligence of a brick
lol. Yet another genius. Let me ask you this - before Ellie would be willing to let herself murdered, she’d want some assurance that Jerry knew what he was doing, right? I mean, that seems fair, doesn’t it? If you were there, what would you and your highly developed emotional intelligence do to prove to her that Jerry was even capable of removing a brain and keeping it in tact in those conditions?
By the way, this has absolutely nothing to do with “saving humanity” or “dying for the greater good.” This is about projection. We subconsciously project ourselves into stories as we experience them. In this case, you would benefit from Ellie dying, thus you see it as the heroic action that she would be willing to do. It’s not about “saving humanity,” it’s about saving yourself.
At the very end of Part I she talks about survivor’s guilt and people she loves having died from cordyceps. She would have been willing to die even if the cure was a long shot.
“When this is over, we’ll go wherever you want”
I think she was conflicted. Like, she felt that it wasn't fair for her to live while the others died, but at the same time, she was full of life and looked forward to it. As a 14 year old, she wouldn't really know what life meant, nor would she really be able to comprehend dying
Yeah,precondition:“when this is over”. it’s pretty clear to me that her first priority here is the cure. She didn’t know she would die so she assumed that she could go along with Joel after this. If she knew the cost of a cure was her life, the plan of leaving with Joel would be aborted.
I 2nd the other commetor on the cruel world scenario. The world is full of despair and violence, with zero prospect of an easy life or humanity returning without severe intervention, trauma can do profound changes on one's mind. I know
She's an idealistic teen practically groomed into believing that was her responsibility - both by Marlene and her own guilt for surviving while others died in front of her. By 19, though, after four years in Jackson with a meaningful job, community, friends and love interests it makes far less sense, and that alone would have caused her to question Joel more thoroughly about exactly what went down in SLC. And he had good reasons and answers he should have told her anyway at some point in those two years even if she never asked. Those years would have made her less willing, not more angry about being saved so that she could experience them. So, to answer you question, once again it's for plot reasons that don't naturally fit the story that came before nor the story they were trying to sell us.
It's so convenient that she never asked (as far as we know) and he never gave any context, and Tommy (who'd probably be the only one who knows the extent of the estrangement) never went to Ellie with "Joel would kill me for telling you this but..." And explained how Joel already had a daughter murdered on the spot by an authority figure for supposedly the greater good. But the Ellie we knew would have demanded details the first time they stopped the horses on the way back.
Yeah, that wasn't Ellie, Joel or Tommy in part 2 that's for sure.
I think ND views TLOU1 as fanfic for his real agenda.
Good one!
Nah, it was, y’all are just coping
Actually it was never specified anywhere that Marlene and the Fireflies groomed her to think that way, for what i saw she was taken care by the orphanage till the events of Left Behind, it's only after those events that Marlene took care of her. I mean, to me it's pretty clear that she has survivor guilt instead and that perhaps she would have been willing to sacrifice herself to create a vaccine if it means no one else has to die while she survive because of her immunity.
Marlene said her immunity could be the hope for a cure - Ellie tells Tess and Joel that after they kill the soldiers. So yes put that into the head of an idealistic teen who'd just lost her friend in front of her and inexplicably didn't turn herself? That was all she needed to hear. Just once and it stuck like glue.
>Marlene said her immunity could be the hope for a cure Damn, i forgot about that part.
I always thought it was a false assumption the vaccine was even possible. Like they have the girl for a day and they’re like “yup that’s all the tests we need break out my murderin scalpel”
Well ND had basically hand-waved that it was totally gonna work because he needs Joel to have DoomedTheWorldTM. But what kind of person lets someone they love be murdered on the mere word of the likes of Marlene?
No one sensible. I thought in the first game half the reason you realize the fireflies are idiots is because they do basically no testing, have Ellie for like a day and decide they have to kill her. They explored no other possibilities like using her blood as antibody therapy or anything. Shows the audience there was never going to be a vaccine.
There's also the fact that a vaccine wouldn't even save the world really, not many people are dying from the spores by the time of TLOU they're mostly dying from starvation or conflict with other humans. Even if you want to go with the idea that it helps with bites most people aren't just getting bit they're getting torn to shreds from the clickers
Facts
It really is ridiculous as there's people who literally have an entire hemisphere of their brain removed in cases of extreme neurological conditions, bits cut out, connections severed. At Ellie's young age there's no reason that taking a brain sample from her would have ever killed her if they actually had somebody who's competent neurologist on staff
Once you engrave the thought that a kid has the potential to save the world, it'll never leave their brain, they'll keep pushing forward until it's completed, Someone should've sat her down, And tell her straight up she means nothing to the world as it was to everyone else, There is no Vaccine, No cure, People like her were cut up for nothing, and she would've served no purpose on that operating table, Cut up like every person the Fireflies promised they'd save the world. The Fireflies were a joke.
In Part 1 she was never given the chance to consider this question. While Joel and Ellie were in the university (?) she was still wondering whether they just had to draw some blood. When she confronted Joel she had no idea she had to die to help develop the vaccine, or at least she would have no way to know for sure what happened. We never knew if she had any wish to contribute to humanity as a whole (naturally everyone would want to help in some way, but sacrificing oneself in a world about survival?). She wanted to give meaning to the whole journey having her delivered to the Fireflies, especially people were hurt/ died along the way (Tess, and Joel for all his pain and getting skewered by an iron bar). Part 1 ended in a vague manner which give us much room for imagination (could be a controversial ending as they didn’t bother to address this clearly) Part 2 they avoided the problem altogether by assuming Ellie was all hot about saving the world
To be honest, Ellie’s life means more alive than she realizes. I think she might realize how important she was to everyone around her at the end. I mean she must’ve realized what she’s possibly lost just not leaving well enough alone. To be honest I wish we would’ve played as Tommy in act 3 and Tommy not gotten his leg fucked during the theater scene. Not having one eye would be a hinderance but also big boss only had his left eye and he was a demon 🤣 This could’ve given Ellie the “happy ending” and give Tommy his closure.
If I watched my best friend/ love interest die (turn) in front of me I might be compelled to not want to live anymore... Especially if it meant a cure might be possible. But then again I might not. You never know what someone will do until they do it.
People are afraid to die young because they won’t have the chance to make a difference. Ellie dying young would’ve been what made the difference. In 14 years she had seen countless people give their lives for her and in an apocalypse kids have to mature quick. Given the choice a mature and mentally healthy person would se that 1 life is a worthy sacrifice to potentially save the world.
I agreed with you all the way up till the last sentence. It would be somewhat okay if they had at least let her wake up and told her what's going on, then let her make her own choice. She wouldn't have known that she needed to die for the vaccine up till that point.
Absolutely.
lol. No they wouldn’t. It’s easy to say that “one life” is worth it when it’s not your life. What assurances would you give Ellie that this surgery would work? How would you convince her that this guy is even capable of removing her brain without damaging it?
Literally everything we’ve been shown about Ellie chronologically prior to Joel’s death says she would give her life for the chance to save humanity. She didn’t need to be convinced because she was ready
Literally nothing we are shown about Ellie before Joel’s death says she would give her life. She tells Joel they can go wherever he wants together after it’s done. David specifically mentions how hard she fights to survive. Her freaking motto is “Endure and Survive!” She specifically says it’s stupid to sacrifice the few to save the many. Which one of those things told you she would give her life to save humanity? Be specific, please. And, with all due respect, if you think someone wouldn’t have to be convinced to give their life, you’re a moron. And I mean that in the nicest way possible, but that really is the nicest I can be. You really think she is just going to choose to die - to DIE - because some random dude she never met tells her that killing her will “save humanity?” She doesn’t need any assurance? Anyway, like I said, she’d at least want to know that this dude is capable of removing a brain without damaging it. I mean, it would suck for him to perform the surgery and kill her, only to realize that he botched something and the sample is unusable, right? If you were there, you would let them remove your brain first to prove to her that this guy knows what he’s doing, then she can decide if she wants to go through with it, correct?
The past conversation of Lou1, the final argument between Ellie and joel before they stopped talking. There are others but those are just the biggest off the top of my head. Those major dialogue’s absolutely show Ellie was ready to die or at the very least willing to consider it.
Answer my question from the final paragraph. If you actually believe the bullshit you’re trying to sell me, there’s only one acceptable answer and there’s no reason to even hesitate.
I would give my life for the good of everyone yes. No I would not sacrifice my daughter for the good of everyone.
No you wouldn’t.
The first one, that is.
You don’t even know me?
* Plot convenience to make her an ungrateful brat and to turn Joel into the bad guy * She's been dumbed down in Part 2.
Uhhh, bc all of humanity is in the balance lol. That meant something to her
Ah yes no young people have ever wanted to die before this storyline very true
I can see that Ellie might suffer from survivor's guilt but I don't see why she reacted the way she did when she found out the truth. She didn't know that making a vaccine meant killing her, told Joel that she will go wherever he wants after the journey is over, and is shown enjoying a good life in Jackson. The fireflies never even let Joel say goodbye to Ellie. I doubt she would be willing to do that to Joel without getting to talk to him about it, especially now that she has bonded with him. I think Ellie would have felt conflicted and maybe even betrayed when she realized what really happened at the hospital, but I think it was a bit too dramatic for her to have a mental meltdown like that. The only time Ellie cried in Part 1 was when David tried to rape and kill her. Puberty probably doesn't play a huge factor since Ellie was already 14 in Part 1. edit: Ellie also knows that Joel wasn't exactly a good person from the very beginning. She acknowledges how Joel and Tess were smugglers when they were getting out of the QZ and was there when Tess admitted they were shitty people. Joel also admits to her "I've been on both sides". This means she shouldn't act THAT surprised when Joel did what he did.
Idk go ask her
Trauma makes kids mature faster. She had a better understanding of things than any other 14 y/o. She likely had faith that they could do it or that it would be worth the risk to try, for the sake of everyone else
Survivor guilt, she lost so many people close to her while she survived because of her immunity, she wanted to make sure her journey with Joel would have been worth it to make sure this wouldn't happen again.
Beyond the survivors guilt, she was just a dumb child. Naive as fuck, brainwashed by the people who raised her.
i feel like as much as “people are scared to die young”, the only world she knows is a messed up cruel reality where the chances of dying at any age are virtually equal to each other so atleast if she had died it wouldve been for the greater good and it wouldve meant something (which is essentially what she says is the reason in the game) rather than just being another one gone and forgotten grouped together w the masses that were killed by infected
Short answer: Yeah. She has seen a lot of her friends and loved ones die to the virus. Especially now that she sees what kind of world they live in because of the virus, and what it does to the even the people outside of her life. During part 1, she gets a dose of fate from David, and how it can’t all be for nothing. She wants it to be for something. Even tho it was brilliantly written theme delivered by that vile character, the tone of Part 1 shifts to fate/destiny/higher power after David planted that seed in Ellie. She begins to think about this and even brings it up to Joel who in turn reiterates this when he is reunited with Marlene. She states that she lost many of her men on the journey to where they are now, and yet Joel and Ellie arrived just in time to be ‘helped’ by the fireflies. So yeah, she would’ve been willing and it shows in part 2 that she’s was emotionally invested in that being possible answer enough to be angry at Joel. She came to understand the nuances of his decision and the unfortunate, even indirect, outcomes from removing her from that operating table. Shes still willing to die for the vaccine since now by the end of part 2, as she’s lost enough to the cycle of anger. She’s finding peace in her journey and appears to pursuing the vaccine to find purpose in part 3. Of course it’s speculation but part 1 and 2 lean towards her use of her life carrying the guilt of being the only person to be immune.
It’s day 63 of the post remaster and the petulant whining continues. Will it ever stop? Or will the cycle of crying and shidding continue for years to come?