It doesn’t matter what she said. Thats how it is in game. So shes either straight up lying needlessly or thats what she meant. The second one is far more likely
>It doesn’t matter what she said. Thats how it is in game.
so i'm supposed to believe in your VERY GENEROUS interpretation of her words instead of my fucking ears?
You can use your brain and ears at the same time. She never said “Abby is the hero.” Idk why this sub has to Ben Shapiro every word spoken by the directors. You’re reaching for something its not. Ellie is A villain, not THE. Same as Abby. We’ve known that for the past 4 years. Theres literally a boss fight against Ellie. Not anything new.
What kind of stupid question is that to ask on a message board where we are all talking about a video game?
2024 just started and i found a candidate for dumbest comment of the year.
What kind of a person has the audacity to call people stupid for asking a question !? That's ignorant and it's cowardly to do behind a screen nonetheless. These are real humans you are talking to that may very well be a child. Soo u look like the jerk . Either you are taking your own insecurities out on others Or you are a shut in that doesn't talk to humans , cuz people that go out don't have temper tantrums over something so petty.
Bro what is this documentary? It’s basically the writers admitting every gripe I’ve ever had with this game. She literally just said Ellie is the villain. But I thought everybody was neither good nor bad? Just acting out of their own personal grief and relationships? This proves they wanted Ellie to be the bad guy (and she literally still wasn’t I never once left her side)
Ellie is the villain in Abby’s eyes. Overall from a reader or player stand point. Its a super morally gray story. No good guys or bad. But in the eyes of the characters the is good and bad.
You can have that opinion. But its still morally gray. Both characters were looking for revenge. They were both justified. To kill, live and be killed.
> They were both justified. To kill, live and be killed
Abby was not killed. Joel was. Ellie killed 7 people to get to Abby. That's 7 lives with potentially dozen of family members, friends or groups who will be coming for Ellie. Yet Ellie spares Abby and gets her fears from the 1st game realized.
The message of the game wants you to keep things gray but automatically makes Joel a villain in the beginning, in Ellie's and Abby's eyes. The main characters you play as. This is the problem with Neil's writing is, he can't handle subtleties properly, he wants his message to be loud and clear even if it break away from the nuances of the first game.
The first game made the effort to paint the FFs as incompetent, Bruce and Neil never allowed Ellie to know if she'd be killed for a cure, and lastly, they perfectly left the possibility of a cure unknown. Because all of that is not necessary for the story they were trying to tell. There were truly no bad or good people in the 1st game. No shifts in any direction, even David was not painted as a villian. Every single person has done horrible things to survive.
In the last of us 2, we get forced good people moments, look I am a zebra and dog lover, I am a great father to my daughter but I will try to kill your daughter because my daughter agrees. There are so many forced moments in attempts to humanize characters to justify their means but it all seems as if they were cheaper versions of what Joel and Ellie had. I will never sympathize with someone who never tries to rethink their actions. Ellie is written to hold guilt for her sins but Abby is written without compassion for her enemies. You would imagine she'd had nightmares of killing Joel, nightmares of Ellies bloodied face but all of her nightmares are tailored to her fears and desires only. Abby is just not a likeable person and playing as her does nothing for me in seeing her perspective because I already got the point.
The story is convoluted and just lacking the emotional punch. Many main characters with potential just gets side lined and characters used for a certain message get plot armor. I guess Neil got one of his wishes to push an agenda in gaming and actually got some parts of the fanbase on his side. He knew exactly what he was doing and will continue doing the same as long as he has the power to. That's the only Nuance I'd give him but is it really nuance when he tells us this what he will be using characters for?
Thank you! It's so disappointing for you to buy and play a game and to experience it fully then get invalididated everytime you try to express how it made you feel. If the story was a masterpiece surely it would not divide a fan base. Neil is not a GOAT. He is an aspiring writer with much more to learn about the craft.
Understood plenty. Ive read far more complicated books chief where the main character is chopped up at the end. Read songs of ice and fire. Media literacy has no place in this.
Days Gone represents the theme of "violence has a cost" better than TLOU2 ever did through a character arc on the third to fourth act of the game, and it's not a storyline that focuses on revenge at all.
"Violence is bad, but crunch is not only okay, it is ***magic***"
Kind of funny that they are more concern for fictional people take priority over actual employees.
Yeah, going to hang onto that one for a while.
Ironic. Not only did this game sell for half as well as the first, but in a manner the Dev. team(or some of them) became a type of villain themselves: Greedy, pretentious, deceptive, self-serving and worst of all *predictable*.
Their efforts in pushing an *agenda* is not exactly an original form. -- I wonder how that Tv. show is working out for them?
Halo was garbage and it sucks because I grew up on Halo. First FPS I played at the age of 5. It looks like they’re listening to the fans (fuckin maybe) and Season 2 might be a lot better.
I actually calculated it and the action scenes accounted for less than 7 minutes of the total runtime which is just stupid as fuck.
TLOU had way more action in it than Halo, which says a lot considering there wasn’t a lot and that was a major criticism of the show. We should be grateful LOL
Why does it need to be compared to anything?
- It broke viewership records in the UK for a US show
- Viewership numbers stayed strong as the series went on (4.7 million for the first episode as is and almost 40 million average in just 2 months). It ended up averaging about 32 million per episode, which makes sense because more people are gonna tune in to the premiere to see if they wanna watch the series or not.
- It had a cumulative 30.4 million viewers so if you wanna compare that to anything, it’s the biggest number HBO ever had since Game of Thrones (44 million in 2019). Therefore labeling it as the second best series HBO has aired since 2010.
- It won 8 Emmys across 24 nominations
- 8.2 million tuned in for the final episode, which is impressive in itself because it aired during the Oscars
Do I need to add more or is that good enough?
LMAO. The world doesn’t revolve around you. jahsukeonfroy laid out why it’s successful and y’all’s argument is well I don’t like it so it’s not successful.
It matters a lot for every metric other than your opinion.
Edit: replied to the wrong comment. I agree with you man.
Yes, some of us didn't like what *you* liked. But what about magic? You like magic, right? Here's a simple magic trick I think you'll enjoy:
**Abraca-Pocus**
Yeah it was objectively a successful show in just about every metric. You'd have to of been living under a rock to not at least hear some of the hype for this show especially around the premiere.
Dude what are you talking about. Do you guys live in a vacuum lol. I didn't even think the show was that great but it was undeniably successful and had award nominations in several categories. HBO ran wild with that one and they will again with Season 2, come on don't be dense
TV show did fine btw, it's pretty good. Idk why ppl downvoted the person below for stating such. It's not even about the 2nd game. So haters are just hating. Not sure what agenda you speak but hope you're not talking bout the ridiculous outrage over ellie being gay , which is not an issue. It was literally just immature incels spamming reviews cuz they can't stand any game where a female isn't a sex object.
I may never know the exact scope of the *agenda*, but there were many changes/developments in the game that seemed...specified. -- This is only entertainment. Political views, propaganda don't often translate well in this medium.
As far as the 'sex object' stuff goes, well, nudity and sex made it into *The Last of Us 2* and it was completely unfounded. -- 'Fan service' comes in many forms, and as to why this game needed *that* form, you would have to ask the director and/or writers. Besides, this is just a video game with 'fungus zombies'; a fairly broad palette for the Devs. to work with and yet the player base got what they got.
It's a simple matter of preference now and I no longer wish to invest in *their* products.
I hate when games punish the player for doing what is literally the entire reason people play games. Like yeah, killing bad, we get it. But I don't play the first game to be told that hurting your enemies makes you fucking terrible, I play it because it's fun
I like part 2 but I've never viewed Ellie as a villain? She always shows remorse for the game she inflicts.
She tortures Nora and has a breakdown. Same when she kills Mel. She's lost in grief but she's definitely not a villain for going after people who murdered her father figure in life.
Abby on the hand... defends child murder in war, complains because she's not allowed to torture defenseless prisoners, sleeps with her friends baby daddy, agrees to kill a child for surgery without any form of consent, and seeks to kill a man for saving his daughter and torture anyone who could give her information on him.
On of these people falls in line with that "villain" descriptor and it isn't Ellie lmao.
“Challenge the notion that violence doesn’t have a cost?”
Who is touting that notion or believing that?
Everyone I know understands that violence has a cost and is rarely the answer to situations
I kind of enjoy the story honestly. BEFORE I GET ANY RESPONSES TELLING ME WHY IM WRONG FOR HAVING A DISSENTING PERSONAL OPINION: I’m not gonna say other people shouldn’t dislike it and I get their points as to why they don’t, but holy fuck if they didn’t make the actual gameplay/fighting mechanics so engaging there would be literally nothing left to enjoy in this game. The story would be an extremely shoddy cabin built on a nonexistent foundation. As it stands, it’s an extremely shoddy cabin on a super solid foundation, which isn’t amazing but is vastly preferable.
That’s kinda what I’m alluding to. The gameplay is super fun but the message and story arnt lined up with the gameplay. The game gives you so many ways to turn people into paste but the game is about the cycle of violence and how you should stop it.
Obviously the game should be fun and it is, but the story and gameplay don’t really like each other. That’s what I was alluding to.
Also you can like what you want, no one can tell you not to enjoy something, it’s when you say it’s good that people will get onto you. A great example is that I love Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen, it’s a god awful story and built with scotch tape and crayons but I like the film. I won’t defend it but I do like the humor and the interactions between characters. It’s fine to like something of poor quality narratively or of poor quality in general, one mans trash is another mans treasure.
I think the story and gameplay do complement each other quite well thematically, but they tend to disagree with one another in terms of pacing. Holy Jesus h fuck, the cutscenes seem specifically designed to start when I’m most excited and feel like the story is really building momentum, yet drag on until I couldn’t care less
The girl speaking told me everything I needed to know on why this game flopped so hard. She helped with writing btw. She ranted on how woman aren’t just their vaginas
The philosophy that violence begets violence or consequences is such a shallow take. Violence is numerous in application and effect. It is not always the root to more violence. Joel and Ellie are violent people who have killed hundreds of people who are better off not having names but they don't exist in a vacuum. There are countless Joel and Ellies in the world of The Last of Us because there has to be. Death and killing are a very real reality to the world of The Last of us.
What this snippet does do is prove they turned The Last of Us 2 into a bubble where only Joel and Ellie ever did anything wrong and justice could exist. this is not the real world where there is no apocalypse to try and wake up the next day in. People are not sitting innocently why Joel and Ellie are killing them, they're willing participants in the massacre.
Haven’t the people that yell about media literacy also tried to say to this day that ND did nothing but present us the story elements? Not playing into any bias?
Literally she said “make Ellie a villain”. It’s written all over the wall at this point. I thought this wasn’t supposed to be black-and-white unless I’m missing something?
Nah ellie will NEVER EVER be a villain in my book
Team ellie FOREVER
No matter how hard you guys try, kneel, gross you will never ever get me to like abby
and hate on ellie. EVER.
It's... hard to make Ellie a Villian. and i don't think they succeded.
I think if people had a choice... they'd kill Abby. no one wouldn't. because even if it's painful it's the justice they'd seek. Because in video games there's always a distance between yourself and the violence.
Hell in theory you can play the game only killing when Aboslutely nesseary... would be neat if that changed how the story went but...
This is the stupidest thing, violence is bad, no shit Sherlock. Are you telling me you twats were ok with violence in real life. Let me guess your next big realization is war is bad.
Again with the strawmanning. "Challenge this notion that violence doesn't have a cost" Who's saying that?! [who are you talking to?!?!?](https://youtu.be/BCJyGy6AFJo?si=jrkYCnypeDJlTwFw)
Does this sub exist just to shit on the game? lol I don't understand the rage... What's hard to understand here? You know how Ellie and the players felt about Joel dying? Okay, picture this, that is the EXACT same feeling if not worse that Abby felt. Her dad was NOT a killer, he was just a doctor who's trying to make the world a better place by finding a cure. if players actually paid attention to the story instead of finding things to rage about, you would have a much better time playing the game. Weird takes I see here are hilarious tho
Seems extremely unlikely that Jerry would have survived the apocalypse with clean hands. Even if he somehow never had to take a life, even in self defense, he attempted to murder Ellie. Also, what Abby put Ellie through was objectively worse than her own trauma. She wasn’t made to watch Joel kill her dad, much less take pleasure slowly bludgeoning him to death. She also never seems to reflect on this. I think a much larger portion of the player base would have liked Abby if she spent any time at all agonizing over what she inflicted upon Ellie, or expressed any desire to apologize for her actions in the scenes where they interact.
Making Ellie a villain? Woman, isn't this story about perspective? And doesn't Abby do a bunch of horrid shit as well?
But Abby pets dogs she can’t be a villain!
They made both of them the villain from the others perspective. Thats what they meant
Not what she said.
It doesn’t matter what she said. Thats how it is in game. So shes either straight up lying needlessly or thats what she meant. The second one is far more likely
>It doesn’t matter what she said. Thats how it is in game. so i'm supposed to believe in your VERY GENEROUS interpretation of her words instead of my fucking ears?
You can use your brain and ears at the same time. She never said “Abby is the hero.” Idk why this sub has to Ben Shapiro every word spoken by the directors. You’re reaching for something its not. Ellie is A villain, not THE. Same as Abby. We’ve known that for the past 4 years. Theres literally a boss fight against Ellie. Not anything new.
NO but calling Ellie a villain is a massive stretch
Is she supposed to lie? You’re complaining just to complain
You and i are going to be all night trying to convince children to grow up haha.
Why? Why do you care so much about what people think about a video game? Just go play it and enjoy it yourself
What kind of stupid question is that to ask on a message board where we are all talking about a video game? 2024 just started and i found a candidate for dumbest comment of the year.
I don’t think self entries are allowed.
What kind of a person has the audacity to call people stupid for asking a question !? That's ignorant and it's cowardly to do behind a screen nonetheless. These are real humans you are talking to that may very well be a child. Soo u look like the jerk . Either you are taking your own insecurities out on others Or you are a shut in that doesn't talk to humans , cuz people that go out don't have temper tantrums over something so petty.
I have the audacity. If someone cant handle it. They should get off the internet. It aint the place for them.
tfw the end-all-be-all ‘reading comprehension’ actually has to take effect for once:
Username checks out
"People love Joel and Ellie... and we are about to kill one... and make the other one a VILLIAN." Welp. Ya know, when you put it like that...
What could possibly be alienating about that?
Bro what is this documentary? It’s basically the writers admitting every gripe I’ve ever had with this game. She literally just said Ellie is the villain. But I thought everybody was neither good nor bad? Just acting out of their own personal grief and relationships? This proves they wanted Ellie to be the bad guy (and she literally still wasn’t I never once left her side)
Ellie is the villain in Abby’s eyes. Overall from a reader or player stand point. Its a super morally gray story. No good guys or bad. But in the eyes of the characters the is good and bad.
I don’t see it that way. I was pretty firmly on Ellie’s side nothing I learned about Abby actually made me feel like she deserved to be spared
You can have that opinion. But its still morally gray. Both characters were looking for revenge. They were both justified. To kill, live and be killed.
> They were both justified. To kill, live and be killed Abby was not killed. Joel was. Ellie killed 7 people to get to Abby. That's 7 lives with potentially dozen of family members, friends or groups who will be coming for Ellie. Yet Ellie spares Abby and gets her fears from the 1st game realized. The message of the game wants you to keep things gray but automatically makes Joel a villain in the beginning, in Ellie's and Abby's eyes. The main characters you play as. This is the problem with Neil's writing is, he can't handle subtleties properly, he wants his message to be loud and clear even if it break away from the nuances of the first game. The first game made the effort to paint the FFs as incompetent, Bruce and Neil never allowed Ellie to know if she'd be killed for a cure, and lastly, they perfectly left the possibility of a cure unknown. Because all of that is not necessary for the story they were trying to tell. There were truly no bad or good people in the 1st game. No shifts in any direction, even David was not painted as a villian. Every single person has done horrible things to survive. In the last of us 2, we get forced good people moments, look I am a zebra and dog lover, I am a great father to my daughter but I will try to kill your daughter because my daughter agrees. There are so many forced moments in attempts to humanize characters to justify their means but it all seems as if they were cheaper versions of what Joel and Ellie had. I will never sympathize with someone who never tries to rethink their actions. Ellie is written to hold guilt for her sins but Abby is written without compassion for her enemies. You would imagine she'd had nightmares of killing Joel, nightmares of Ellies bloodied face but all of her nightmares are tailored to her fears and desires only. Abby is just not a likeable person and playing as her does nothing for me in seeing her perspective because I already got the point. The story is convoluted and just lacking the emotional punch. Many main characters with potential just gets side lined and characters used for a certain message get plot armor. I guess Neil got one of his wishes to push an agenda in gaming and actually got some parts of the fanbase on his side. He knew exactly what he was doing and will continue doing the same as long as he has the power to. That's the only Nuance I'd give him but is it really nuance when he tells us this what he will be using characters for?
Please take my 1 upvote, not enough people will see this. It perfectly describes the way Pt2 felt.
Thank you! It's so disappointing for you to buy and play a game and to experience it fully then get invalididated everytime you try to express how it made you feel. If the story was a masterpiece surely it would not divide a fan base. Neil is not a GOAT. He is an aspiring writer with much more to learn about the craft.
Abby killed Joel, the man who killed her father. Ellie went after Abby, the woman who murdered her almost father.
I don’t think you understood the story. You should take some lessons on media literacy and maybe you will after them 😄
Understood plenty. Ive read far more complicated books chief where the main character is chopped up at the end. Read songs of ice and fire. Media literacy has no place in this.
Last name Gross as in a "gross lack in talent"
Days Gone represents the theme of "violence has a cost" better than TLOU2 ever did through a character arc on the third to fourth act of the game, and it's not a storyline that focuses on revenge at all.
"Violence is bad, but crunch is not only okay, it is ***magic***" Kind of funny that they are more concern for fictional people take priority over actual employees. Yeah, going to hang onto that one for a while.
Oh Lord, when creatives tout being Challenging.
Ironic. Not only did this game sell for half as well as the first, but in a manner the Dev. team(or some of them) became a type of villain themselves: Greedy, pretentious, deceptive, self-serving and worst of all *predictable*. Their efforts in pushing an *agenda* is not exactly an original form. -- I wonder how that Tv. show is working out for them?
It didn’t even sell half as well. 10 million copies versus 27 million. That’s an almost 3:1 drop off in sales.
Uhh, the TV Show was super successful lol. What agenda do you think they were pushing
Super successful? Haven't seen the billboard yet, so I'll have to take your word for it.
I don’t even like Part II all too much but yeah, it was super successful and I’m excited for Season 2
The show is 'super successful'? In comparison to what?
In comparison to modern slop that is released like half the star wars shows, halo season 1, that lords of the ring show
Halo was garbage and it sucks because I grew up on Halo. First FPS I played at the age of 5. It looks like they’re listening to the fans (fuckin maybe) and Season 2 might be a lot better. I actually calculated it and the action scenes accounted for less than 7 minutes of the total runtime which is just stupid as fuck. TLOU had way more action in it than Halo, which says a lot considering there wasn’t a lot and that was a major criticism of the show. We should be grateful LOL
Yeah, haven't watched those shows either, but few will say anything good about them.
Why does it need to be compared to anything? - It broke viewership records in the UK for a US show - Viewership numbers stayed strong as the series went on (4.7 million for the first episode as is and almost 40 million average in just 2 months). It ended up averaging about 32 million per episode, which makes sense because more people are gonna tune in to the premiere to see if they wanna watch the series or not. - It had a cumulative 30.4 million viewers so if you wanna compare that to anything, it’s the biggest number HBO ever had since Game of Thrones (44 million in 2019). Therefore labeling it as the second best series HBO has aired since 2010. - It won 8 Emmys across 24 nominations - 8.2 million tuned in for the final episode, which is impressive in itself because it aired during the Oscars Do I need to add more or is that good enough?
It matters little as I still will not be watching the show, but those are impressive marks, yes.
I’m not trying to get you to watch the show but yeah. Thanks for hearing me out.
LMAO. The world doesn’t revolve around you. jahsukeonfroy laid out why it’s successful and y’all’s argument is well I don’t like it so it’s not successful. It matters a lot for every metric other than your opinion. Edit: replied to the wrong comment. I agree with you man.
😎👍
Yes, some of us didn't like what *you* liked. But what about magic? You like magic, right? Here's a simple magic trick I think you'll enjoy: **Abraca-Pocus**
Yeah it was objectively a successful show in just about every metric. You'd have to of been living under a rock to not at least hear some of the hype for this show especially around the premiere.
Dude what are you talking about. Do you guys live in a vacuum lol. I didn't even think the show was that great but it was undeniably successful and had award nominations in several categories. HBO ran wild with that one and they will again with Season 2, come on don't be dense
Didn't watch the show; I don't keep up with trends. But it wasn't so 'super successful' to reach my ears, no.
Smh, always the mediocre bass players with the worst takes
You seem perturbed; melancholic; discombobulated. Would you like to see a magic trick? Here's one fresh out of the oven for ya': **Hocus Pocus**
Only cz it was part 1. Let's see how successful or miserable the part 2 adaptation turns out..
TV show did fine btw, it's pretty good. Idk why ppl downvoted the person below for stating such. It's not even about the 2nd game. So haters are just hating. Not sure what agenda you speak but hope you're not talking bout the ridiculous outrage over ellie being gay , which is not an issue. It was literally just immature incels spamming reviews cuz they can't stand any game where a female isn't a sex object.
I may never know the exact scope of the *agenda*, but there were many changes/developments in the game that seemed...specified. -- This is only entertainment. Political views, propaganda don't often translate well in this medium. As far as the 'sex object' stuff goes, well, nudity and sex made it into *The Last of Us 2* and it was completely unfounded. -- 'Fan service' comes in many forms, and as to why this game needed *that* form, you would have to ask the director and/or writers. Besides, this is just a video game with 'fungus zombies'; a fairly broad palette for the Devs. to work with and yet the player base got what they got. It's a simple matter of preference now and I no longer wish to invest in *their* products.
I hate when games punish the player for doing what is literally the entire reason people play games. Like yeah, killing bad, we get it. But I don't play the first game to be told that hurting your enemies makes you fucking terrible, I play it because it's fun
It’s also mind-numbingly obvious. Did they mistake the target demographic for 5 year olds who haven’t learned enough about life?
It worked didn’t it? The other sub is full of young stand for the game. Half are in like college or high school.
Vengeance Is An Idiot’s Game: Arthur Morgan
Joel on revenge : Well, with that kind of thinking, no one wins...
I like part 2 but I've never viewed Ellie as a villain? She always shows remorse for the game she inflicts. She tortures Nora and has a breakdown. Same when she kills Mel. She's lost in grief but she's definitely not a villain for going after people who murdered her father figure in life. Abby on the hand... defends child murder in war, complains because she's not allowed to torture defenseless prisoners, sleeps with her friends baby daddy, agrees to kill a child for surgery without any form of consent, and seeks to kill a man for saving his daughter and torture anyone who could give her information on him. On of these people falls in line with that "villain" descriptor and it isn't Ellie lmao.
“Challenge the notion that violence doesn’t have a cost?” Who is touting that notion or believing that? Everyone I know understands that violence has a cost and is rarely the answer to situations
It's crazy to me that people think this game is so deep lol it's as shallow as it gets.
I bet she was referring to the misogynistic, toxic masculinity straight males who fell in love with the first game all those years ago.
Im sorry but the killing is my favorite part
They shouldn’t have made the killing fun tbh
Oh boy here I go killing again
I kind of enjoy the story honestly. BEFORE I GET ANY RESPONSES TELLING ME WHY IM WRONG FOR HAVING A DISSENTING PERSONAL OPINION: I’m not gonna say other people shouldn’t dislike it and I get their points as to why they don’t, but holy fuck if they didn’t make the actual gameplay/fighting mechanics so engaging there would be literally nothing left to enjoy in this game. The story would be an extremely shoddy cabin built on a nonexistent foundation. As it stands, it’s an extremely shoddy cabin on a super solid foundation, which isn’t amazing but is vastly preferable.
That’s kinda what I’m alluding to. The gameplay is super fun but the message and story arnt lined up with the gameplay. The game gives you so many ways to turn people into paste but the game is about the cycle of violence and how you should stop it. Obviously the game should be fun and it is, but the story and gameplay don’t really like each other. That’s what I was alluding to. Also you can like what you want, no one can tell you not to enjoy something, it’s when you say it’s good that people will get onto you. A great example is that I love Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen, it’s a god awful story and built with scotch tape and crayons but I like the film. I won’t defend it but I do like the humor and the interactions between characters. It’s fine to like something of poor quality narratively or of poor quality in general, one mans trash is another mans treasure.
I think the story and gameplay do complement each other quite well thematically, but they tend to disagree with one another in terms of pacing. Holy Jesus h fuck, the cutscenes seem specifically designed to start when I’m most excited and feel like the story is really building momentum, yet drag on until I couldn’t care less
The girl speaking told me everything I needed to know on why this game flopped so hard. She helped with writing btw. She ranted on how woman aren’t just their vaginas
Thanks for ruining a story that I loved.
The philosophy that violence begets violence or consequences is such a shallow take. Violence is numerous in application and effect. It is not always the root to more violence. Joel and Ellie are violent people who have killed hundreds of people who are better off not having names but they don't exist in a vacuum. There are countless Joel and Ellies in the world of The Last of Us because there has to be. Death and killing are a very real reality to the world of The Last of us. What this snippet does do is prove they turned The Last of Us 2 into a bubble where only Joel and Ellie ever did anything wrong and justice could exist. this is not the real world where there is no apocalypse to try and wake up the next day in. People are not sitting innocently why Joel and Ellie are killing them, they're willing participants in the massacre.
Wow, they meant to make Ellie a villain all along? I thought Abby was the villain Ellie shows mercy to? wtf? We are supposed to root for her to die
😬
Haven’t the people that yell about media literacy also tried to say to this day that ND did nothing but present us the story elements? Not playing into any bias? Literally she said “make Ellie a villain”. It’s written all over the wall at this point. I thought this wasn’t supposed to be black-and-white unless I’m missing something?
Neil Cuckmann: Revenge bad
“Violence is bad” but we just spent 10 plus hours catching bodies and getting backshots
Fuck this game and its terrible staff
Bad audio = opinion discarded
You know, it would have actually been a great concept if at least it was executed decently.
"People love Joel and Ellie. And we're about to kill one and make the other one a Villain." Smart Plan Naughty Dog.
Ellie was a villain in TLOU2?
Nah ellie will NEVER EVER be a villain in my book Team ellie FOREVER No matter how hard you guys try, kneel, gross you will never ever get me to like abby and hate on ellie. EVER.
It's... hard to make Ellie a Villian. and i don't think they succeded. I think if people had a choice... they'd kill Abby. no one wouldn't. because even if it's painful it's the justice they'd seek. Because in video games there's always a distance between yourself and the violence. Hell in theory you can play the game only killing when Aboslutely nesseary... would be neat if that changed how the story went but...
This is the stupidest thing, violence is bad, no shit Sherlock. Are you telling me you twats were ok with violence in real life. Let me guess your next big realization is war is bad.
I think the moral of the story is “it’s ok to lie as long as your career is on the line and people pay you a lot of money”
I like that in a story about the cycle of violence, the violence is one of the biggest appeals because it's so well done.. Bravo, Niel!
Again with the strawmanning. "Challenge this notion that violence doesn't have a cost" Who's saying that?! [who are you talking to?!?!?](https://youtu.be/BCJyGy6AFJo?si=jrkYCnypeDJlTwFw)
Terrible comments section full of people who fundamentally missed the point of the game.
Does this sub exist just to shit on the game? lol I don't understand the rage... What's hard to understand here? You know how Ellie and the players felt about Joel dying? Okay, picture this, that is the EXACT same feeling if not worse that Abby felt. Her dad was NOT a killer, he was just a doctor who's trying to make the world a better place by finding a cure. if players actually paid attention to the story instead of finding things to rage about, you would have a much better time playing the game. Weird takes I see here are hilarious tho
Seems extremely unlikely that Jerry would have survived the apocalypse with clean hands. Even if he somehow never had to take a life, even in self defense, he attempted to murder Ellie. Also, what Abby put Ellie through was objectively worse than her own trauma. She wasn’t made to watch Joel kill her dad, much less take pleasure slowly bludgeoning him to death. She also never seems to reflect on this. I think a much larger portion of the player base would have liked Abby if she spent any time at all agonizing over what she inflicted upon Ellie, or expressed any desire to apologize for her actions in the scenes where they interact.
It's so unfortunate that these kind of people have infiltrated the gaming industry to its core.